The Kevin Sheehan Show - "Certain" On Aiyuk

Episode Date: July 18, 2026

Kevin opened with Brandon Aiyuk's former mentor saying he's "certain" that Aiyuk won't be playing in Washington with the Commanders. Kevin reacted Commanders' LB Leo Chenal describing his role in Daronte Jones' defense. John Ourand/Puck News jumped on to talk World Cup and about many recent interesting sports media and sports business stories.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Head to www.Chime.com/SHEEHAN. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.   Search Whatnot—W H A T N O T—in the App Store, download, and you can start selling right away.   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. We're getting closer. Eight weeks from today will be gearing up for the first full football weekend of the season with the first full Friday football show of the year.

Can't get here fast enough. The show's presenting sponsor is always Windo Nation. 86690 Nation, windownation.com if you need new windows. I've got one guest on this show. My friend John Orand will jump on with us from Puck News. Lots of sports media and sports business to discuss. And we'll start with the World Cup and the amazing audience that it has attracted over the last six weeks. I am going on Sunday.

If you haven't tuned into a show recently, I will be there Sunday in the Meadowlands for Argentina against Spain in the final. I will have a full report on Monday show. I am also hoping to get into the Netflix quarterback show a bit more over the weekend. I don't know if I'm going to have that opportunity. I watched the first episode last night. And so far the flakos are the, I think, the best part of the show. Joe, his wife, and his five kids. There's actually a scene, I may have mentioned that I saw this on social media.

There's a scene when Joe plays his first game back in Baltimore after being away for four or five seasons with the Browns week two last year. And he's starting for Cleveland against the Ravens. and his oldest son turns to his wife in the crowd and says, I hope dad doesn't play well. If he does, I'm going to crash out. And his wife said, what do you mean? And the kid says, I benched him on my fantasy team. And then she says, I benched him too. It was hysterical. They both benched their husband and father on their fantasy teams as he was getting ready to start against the Ravens.

Yeah. Really want to get into that show, and I will. Yeah, two months from today. Keys to a Washington win over Philadelphia, the smell test will be at it on that first full Friday football show of the year. Actually, the smell test picks will come the week before, maybe two weeks before, because there is that what they call in college football week zero. I think TCU plays North Carolina in Dublin, Belichick,

and the heels against TCU in Dublin. I think that's the very first football game, real football game, not preseason of the year. And then the weekend before eight weeks from today will be Labor Day weekend featuring a full college football slate. So seven weeks away, from the build-up to the first college football weekend of the year, eight weeks away from NFL football.

And remember, when we get to that Friday, I think it's September 11th, already two games will have been played. The Seahawks and the Patriots, the previous Wednesday night in Seattle, as the season opener and the night before in Melbourne, Australia, the Rams and the 49ers. I cannot wait for real football. I cannot wait for real football because, yes, Brandon Ayyuk was back at it again today on social media. Not a video.

He may have been responding to something his old personal coach, T.J. Hushman Zada, something he said on his podcast. But Ayyuk posted on Instagram a picture of him with the football in his hand. at Arizona State, you know, presumably after catching a pass from one Jaden Daniels. And here's what is written on this post. Quote, a ho-ass hater ain't ever stopped shit, exclamation point. Soon, exclamation point, exclamation point. And then it looks like some sort of sun devil, maybe sun. I don't know what it is.

I'm sure it's another indication that he thinks he's going to end up playing in the NFL and probably with Jaden Daniels. But the hater he may be referring to is T.J. Hushman Zada. T.J. Hushman Zada, remember, has, over the last few months, he's been very critical of a guy that he was personally coaching. Hushman Zada, former NFL wide receiver, was Brandon Ayyuk's personal mentor, personal guru, personal coach. He's been very critical of Ayuk and his social media tirade and almost everything that Iyuk's been doing over the last year, year and a half. This was the latest from Hushman Zada on his podcast, Speak Easy. I ain't going to say this as a fact. He ain't going to the commanders.

Not Iyuk, it's done. It's over. Stick a for a hit, it. Zero. Zero percent chance. He ain't going. I want Stefan Diggs. I like Diggs.

Do we got problems off the field? Yeah, I mean, he just liked to mess with women all the time. That's okay. You just don't let it become a problem. But on the field, I'm taking him. B.A. 0% chance that he's with the commandant. now. Zero percent. And you know, the other day I was like, uh, I ain't uh, no more. I'm certain.

T.J. Hushmanzada saying he is certain that Brandon Ayuk is not going to play for the commanders. He also went on to say that it sucks because Brandon Ayuk is so young and he's so talented. But he seems to be convinced that, Ayyuk is not coming to Washington. I'm pretty convinced of that, and I think most of you are at this point as well. You know, I wanted to play that in part because it's something new on this subject, but it's also something old. He has said similar things, and he's been very critical of Ayuk, and you may view that as somebody in the know that knows something for sure. I don't know if he knows something for certain. But I do think it's interesting,

over these last five, six, seven weeks. And actually beyond that, going back to some of the conversation from people like Dante Wittner. And Dante Wittner actually weighed in on Brandon Ayuk as well. And I'm going to share with you what he said. But going back now, you know, several months, it's been those that have known him or been close to the situation, 49ers-related people or people like Hushman Zada,

who have been super critical. That is obviously a big tell on this thing. There's no support for him anywhere, including the people that are closest to the situation and maybe closest to him. Dante Wittner, who played for the 49ers, played for us briefly too. He came on this show three months ago

maybe to talk about IUC and was very critical of IUC when he was on, and this was long before the social media. series that Iyuk's been putting together. But he said on his podcast, the grit code, he said, quote, what I'm going to say is Brandon Ayukes sealed his fate. He'll never play another down in the NFL. Yeah, you went at the 49ers front office and their coaching staff.

You were very disgruntled, but the only chance you had was Jaden Daniels and the Washington commanders. That was the only person you had. had to go to battle for you. And for Brandon Ayyuk, not to understand that, and to go on social media and to attack Jaden Daniels and his mom, you sealed your fate. So sometimes burning bridges is okay, but not in this instance. So I think that's the rest in peace for Brandon Ayuk's career.

He's ripping. He's putting Brandon Ayuk to sleep for his career. Steve Young said something the other day via a 49ers blogger, I think. Quote, I worry for him. I feel like I want to reach out and help him. This is beyond football. It feels like it just feels like we need to not make it about football right now. Closed quote.

So there you go. There's some new on Brandon Ayuk. And at this point, it's gotten old. And barring a total turnaround from this guy, it is over as far as Washington's concerned. But again, that's as of today. You know, I'm reserving some level of right to change my mind because he could go on an apology tour of some sort and work all of this out. I guess he could. I got this from Randy.

Randy writes, Kevin, the ESPN rankings you've shoved down our throats is actually depressing when you really think about it, but it's also a compliment to you more on that in a moment. He writes, I've been a listener for a long time in some of the ESPN top 10 ranked players that you wanted are ranked very high. and instead the team picked lesser players. He writes, Kyle Hamilton is the number one ranked safety. That was your guy in the draft. Christian Gonzalez, the number three cornerback was everyone's preference, and they picked Forbes instead. He mentions that I liked Derek Henry over Josh Doxon.

That's not true. And he said that I liked Derwin James in the 2018 draft over Durran Payne. That's actually not true also. He also writes, Adam Peters traded back in the 2024 draft in the second round and passed on the number 10 cornerback, Cooper DeGine. The list goes on and on, Kevin, of the players on these ESPN rankings that the team passed on to pick a loser instead. Our roster could be so much better with competence in the GM seat. Yeah, thank you for that, Randy. Thank you for the benefit of the doubt, which was just inaccurate on some of the things that you said.

I went back after reading Randy's email last night, and I went through what we've talked about multiple times this week, the ESPN top 10 rankings of the position groups in the NFL, the honorable mention players, the others receiving votes. and I was startled at some of the same things that Randy was startled by. It is a bit depressing. There were major opportunities for our team. And by the way, I think a lot of fans of teams could say the same thing, but I'm not sure they could say it as strongly as our fan base can. Washington, by the way, and I think I mentioned this with Tommy yesterday,

four total players even mentioned, just one in the top 10 of a position group that was Laramie Tunsell, who was the number five offensive tackle in the game. Jaden Daniels was honorable mention among quarterbacks. Terry McClure and Frankie Louvre were among others receiving votes in the wide receiver and off ball linebacker categories. I would imagine that the four total players in all three of those categories, top 10 honorable mention, others receiving votes, that's got to be near the bottom of the league. By the way, the teams with the most top 10 players, Jeremy Fowler from ESPN,

who put this thing together with the help of 70 front office execs, GMs, scouts, and head coaches. He put out a tweet about the teams with the most players in the top 10. The lions led the way with nine top 10 players. The Eagles with eight, the Chiefs with seven, the Texans with six, and then the Rams, Cowboys, Ravens, 49ers, and Broncos each had five. Washington had one top 10 player. Tunsell.

So I'm going to take you three. some of what I found going through some of these lists. And just mentioned some of the top 10 players, not necessarily the honorable mentions or the others receiving votes. First of all, as Randy mentioned, Kyle Hamilton, the number one safety in the league after four years. I mean, he is one hell of a football player. There is no doubt about that in Baltimore,

number one safety in the NFL. We had number 11 overall in the 2022 draft, and I did really stump for Kyle Hamilton. That was my guy for Washington at number 11. They didn't take him, if you recall, they traded back, and they selected Johan Dotson, and then eventually they got Sam Hal and Brian Robinson, Jr., and somebody else that I'm forgetting. I forget who the other player was. remember to, you know, it's just so funny how things change. I'm telling you, the majority of our fans thought Ron Rivera was playing chess in that

moment, trading back and getting a quarterback like Sam Hal and a running back like Brian Robinson, Jr. and Jahan Dotson. I liked Dotson, by the way. I did like Dotson as a receiver at 16. I thought that that was a good spot for him. I wanted Hamilton. but I kind of thought that Jehan Dodson had a chance to be a good player. I was dead wrong about that. So Kyle Hamilton was the number one safety. We clearly could have had him. Christian Gonzalez, the number three corner.

We know the story there. Belichick just kind of laughed, traded back behind Washington because he knew that Ron was going to take Emmanuel Forbes and he took Gonzalez. I mean, just in recent years, we could have Gonzales. Gonzalez and Kyle Hamilton on defense. That might make a difference for sure. But they took Forbes. I did like Gonzalez among the corners.

He was my favorite. But I also was intrigued with Forbes. When they took Forbes, I thought, man, this guy, you know, set the NCAA record for pick sixes. He was a ball hawk. Didn't work out, obviously. I was looking through the rest. Like, Derwin James, Randy,

I was all over Duran Payne in that draft. I liked D'Rwin James, but I did not want Washington to select Dirwin James in that 2018 draft. Duran Payne was my guy because I really thought, if you recall, 2015 and 2016 were just disastrous defensively. 2017 got a little bit better. They had taken John Allen the year before, and I thought, hey, let's put Duran Payne next to John Allen. let's beef up up front.

And Derwin James was a favorite of a lot of people, but I did like Duran Payne, and they selected Duran there. You know, if you go back, and I was just going back through these lists, Leonard Williams is the number one ranked per this ESPN voting, number one defensive tackle in the NFL. Number one. If you go back to that 2015 draft, I actually loved Leonard Williams.

I also loved Amari Cooper in that draft. Now, they picked Brandon Sheriff. That was the first Scott McLuhan draft. And they picked Brandon Sheriff and remember Jay Gruden famously saying, you know, last two years I got a wide receiver and a guard. He wasn't thrilled with number five being a guard. But Brandon Sheriff, you know, and Jay's admitted this, was a very good player. And I think McLuhan has told us this before.

you know, they needed football players. They also needed to not take big risks because they needed so much. And Sheriff ended up being a good player. Remember on the first day of minicamp, first day of minicamp, Jay Gruden has told us before, he knew that Brandon Sheriff could not play tackle. They moved him to guard, first day of rookie minicamp because his arms were so short.

But in that draft, Leonard Williams was a beast coming out. Now, he had, you know, more. question marks around a lot of things than a guy like Brandon Sheriff did. But the truth is, like even if they had taken Leonard Williams, would he still be here? Probably not. He probably would be on his third team like he is right now. He's had kind of an up and down career. What else did I find going through this list that was interesting? I did not. Thank you, Randy, for pointing out Derek Henry was the player that I liked in the 2016 draft.

No, I did like Derek Henry, but no, not in the first round. I wanted Josh Doxon. Dead wrong. I was not only into Josh Doxon before the draft, when they were on the clock, I thought they were going to take Doxon. They did, and I was thrilled. Doxon obviously was a terrible pick. You know, the Cooper DeGine thing, yeah. I mean, actually, just in recent years, right, Gonzalez, Hamilton, Cooper DeGine.

How'd you like to have those three players on our roster right now? Now, the trade back in 24, it's still too early to know with, you know, Mikey and Senate, etc. We'll find out, I think by this time next year, we'll have a good handle on whether or not that was a good move or not. But right now, that move favors Philadelphia with the number 10 cornerback in the league. You know, in 2017, as I was going back through these, going through these lists, like T.J. Watts, the number seven pass rusher in the NFL. It actually seems low for him. And every time I see something about T.J. Watt, I'm reminded that was Cooley's favorite player in that draft. The 2017 draft, he was saying leading up to that draft, every team that passes on T.J. Watt,

is going to regret it for the rest of their days. He thought T.J. Watt was the best player in the draft overall. Washington had 17, number 17, and took John Allen. And remember, John Allen kind of slipped and fell to them at 2017, to number 17, because of some of the fears over arthritis. I think it was shoulder or neck arthritis. Miles Garrett was the best player in that draft. he was picked number one, but T.J. Watt was probably the second best player, along with Christian McCaffrey, and Cooley loved McCaffrey.

Cooley was so good, you know, I mean, we all know that. But like the draft stuff, when we put him to work looking at film of players, and he's like, T.J. Watt, Wisconsin, best player in the draft. You cannot pass on him if he's there for you. And I remember saying, well, he's not projected to go into late first. He's like, it doesn't matter. You take him at 17, period. End of conversation. He's like, Christian McCaffrey definitely won't be there.

But you take T.J. Watt. He also liked Kittle in that draft. I remember he liked George Kittle in that draft. Going through that list, though, like Randy did, Trent Williams was the number two offensive tackle. Montez Sweat was others receiving. voting votes. Yeah, there were a lot of misses and a lot of things that, you know, they didn't work out for various reasons. But at the very least, you know, in recent years, 22, 23, 24,

they had chances to draft Kyle Hamilton, Christian Gonzalez, and Cooper Dijeen. Yeah, that would have been nice. All right. I want to take a quick break and come back and talk about the defensive players that Washington did add during the offseason, one specifically who made an NFL network appearance and described his role. You'll hear it next after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you're tired of the following bad combination, inflated grocery prices and unhealthy shopping, I've got the answer for you. It's Thrive Market. I've been telling you about Thrive for over a year now. it's a membership-based online grocery service. For just $5 a month, $5 a month, you get access to a curated selection of organic and non-GMO brands,

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But hurry, the sale ends July 19th. Hey guys, I want to welcome What Not as a first-time sponsor on the show. I have a feeling many of you are familiar with What-Nod. What-Nod is the largest dedicated live shopping platform where sellers are building real, thriving businesses. It really doesn't matter what the product is. It can be beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, even cookies.

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We know that. Six to seven new starters, maybe. One of them will be former chiefs linebacker Leo Chenal, who was on the NFL network yesterday and described his role in the Durante Jones defense. Listen carefully. There's something that he says that I think we should react to. Here was Leo Chanel yesterday on the NFL network.

You know, like I said, it really involves the linebackers, it involves guys playing to their skill set. So it's really full being able to, you know, walk through, you know, different things with coaches and, you know, having feedback, like feedback to the coaches, them talking to us. Like, they really want to just have us take advantage of what we're really good at. And, you know, we kind of develop the scheme, you know, more and more. And we're going to continue to mold that, you know, around the guys that we have. So it's really cool how, like, personalized it is. And, you know, as a Mike Linebacker being in the middle, you know, you know,

go each way, come downhill, like, you've got so much flexibility, you know, as a linebacker in this defense. So towards the end there, you hear Leo Chanel sort of reveal that he is a Mike linebacker in this defense. And many of you sent me this video and asked, does this mean that Leo Chanel

will be the green dot? He'll be, will he be the communicator with Durante Jones, the player on the field that will have that responsibility of calling. plays and making adjustments, et cetera. I think there was an assumption that it could be Sunny Stiles. I also thought Frankie Louvre and maybe Jordan McGee were possibilities. I think there are a lot of possibilities. I don't know the answer as to whether or not Leo Channal is going to be the green dot or not. It wouldn't surprise me. He's a veteran player.

But I do want to make just one point here. When he says he's the Mike linebacker, that may be true in terms of how they refer to him positionally. But in a base 3-4, if that's what they're going to be, a base 3-4 defense, that was the Brian Flores defense in Minnesota, you've got two inside linebackers. Now, responsibilities, depending on what the offense is presenting, aren't identical, but you've got two outside linebackers or edges, and you've got two inside linebackers in a base 3-4. And remember, Minnesota was in their base defense as much as anybody in the league was last year. So it's not a true middle linebacker. It's not Dick Butkus, you know, at that second level

breathing down on the center from, you know, two or three yards away. It's a 3-4. It's, you know, a nose tackle. You got two D-tackles that are also, you know, can be called D-Ns. And then you've got four linebackers. Look, they load it up. on linebackers and edges. You know, Oway and Chenal and Stiles and Chase on. They even drafted Josephs and they've got Louvre coming back and they've got Armstrong coming back and Jordan McGee's going to be a part of it. They are loaded up on players that can play offball linebacker or those two middle linebackers or Mike linebackers or edge rushers slash outside linebackers. I don't know what the difference between each of the off-ball linebackers or inside linebackers will be.

It'll probably be opponent dependent. But it sounds like Chanel feels like he's going to be going downhill and making a lot of tackles. I think when we get to the opener, it's Chanel in styles or maybe Chanel in Louvre to start. and on the edges it's O.A. and chase on. But it could be Dorrance Armstrong. They've got a lot of possibilities here. You know, I think up front you're talking about Settle Pain and Kinlaw and Newton as part of the rotation. Omenahue is part of the rotation. That part of, you know, the team right now is obviously TBD because we're not sure what Durante Jones is going to roll out.

I mean, like if you go to the Minnesota depth chart from last year, okay, which Durante Jones was a part of that defensive staff, and you look at, you know, at the end of last year, by the way, they played Washington in December, you had a nose tackle, you had two D-tackle slash D-Ns, John Allen was one of them, and then you had four linebackers. You had sort of two outside linebackers. They were Grenard. and Van Ginkle. I mean, two really good outside edges. And their inside guys were veteran Eric Wilson and Blake Cashman. And they actually, you know, per their depth chart, neither one of those was identified as a middle linebacker. They were identified as a left inside linebacker and a right inside linebacker. We'll see how they get identified and what the responsibility differences are.

But as far as what he said, he called himself, referred to himself as a Mike linebacker. He is an inside linebacker. And as to whether or not he's going to be the guy that will be listening to Durante Jones in between plays before they shut that play clock off at 15 seconds, I have no idea. I have no idea. And look, for all I know, their base won't be a 3-4. Durante Jones may not bring all of Brian Flores to Washington, although I think he was hired to bring a lot of Brian Flores to Washington. All right, let's get to John Orand.

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86690 Nation, windownation.com. All right, joining me right now is my friend John Orand from Puck News at Orand underscore Puck on X. I was just telling you before we started to record, and it's so true, there are a few people that when I have them on the show, I don't really have to prepare,

or I can just think of a couple of things, and I just then know it'll take off. And you're one of those people. I started thinking before I called you, all right, we've got this, this, this, this. And then I'm like, wait a minute, I can talk to him about this, this, this, and this. It's easy having John on this show.

He's so good at what he does covering the business of sports, sports media, and plus he is a local DMVer and a fan of all of our teams. So I think I told you this the last time I had on. I am actually going Sunday to the World Cup final. I can't wait to hear about it.

I mean, you're one of the, boy, boy. Those tickets, I happen to be hanging out at the, I was up in Philly, and I was hanging out for the All-Star game, and I was hanging out with some Fox executives, and they said that they have been inundated with ticket requests from people trying

to get into that game. So you have that prize golden ticket right there. Yeah, well, it wasn't it wasn't my doing. It was my younger brother's doing, so he gets all the credit. But it should be a lot of fun. And you know I'm not a big soccer guy, but I've really gotten into the World Cup, and I've enjoyed it. So I'm looking forward to Sunday.

By the way, I'm going to ask you what I asked radio guests today, radio callers today. And that is, you know, it's the perfect, John, sort of mid-July post-all Star break sports radio topic. your bucket list sports event or game that you've never been to that tops that list that you want to go to. Do you have one that you haven't been to that you absolutely are going to do one day before you pass along? Yeah, this is embarrassing, but Augusta. I've never been to Augusta. I just want to go, I just want to see the Masters. I don't even need to be there on the Sunday.

I just want to be there like even on the Wednesday or the Thursday, just see the Azaleas. And, you know, that's the first official day of spring. And it always happens to come right after the NCAA tournament. Right. And you have to, like, pick one or the other, the final four, you know. And I always pick the final four because there are more people that attend that for me, for my purposes. So I've never done Augusta, and it's on the short list. Wimbledon is also another one that I lived in London for four years, Kevin, never once went to Wimbledon.

Really? Another one. Yeah. Yeah. I've done both of them. just once, and I'll tell you, the Masters is absolutely worth it. And you hit on the day. Like Wednesday, Thursday, most Masters, you know, veterans will tell you Wednesday is actually

the best day to go. I went on a Thursday, and it was spectacular. But the worst place to be when you're interested in a golf tournament is actually at the golf tournament. At the tournament. And you know what? I heard horror stories about the Ryder Cup, the fan experience there, because everybody's following the players, and it's just tough to see anything at the

Ryder Cup. It was, that's always, you know, having the TV and seeing all the different shots, it's actually true in most sports, but especially true at golf. My number one, just because I know you are a huge college basketball guy, and you're a huge Terp and a Terp fan, but I've never, never been to Duke Carolina at Cameron Indoor. I've been to Cameron Indoor. I've never seen Duke Carolina at Cameron Indoor. That's my number one. Does that interest you? Have you already seen it? I haven't seen Duke Carolina, but I've seen some big games at Cameron. And Cameron is

such an experience. But I think there are all those old barns that you can go and see games that, you know, I actually went to Indiana, Terps Indiana game a couple of years ago during the Crabb 5 team. And that was, that was special going into, I forget the name of the Assembly Hall. But, yeah, yeah. And, you know, Kansas has a great field house. And actually, Butler, as a really good one as well. I would, you know, we did too at one time with Colfield House. I think that they're not going to be around forever. So I kind of want to do. that trip as well. Well, it's interesting because I gave my top three and number three, and I had a bunch of

possibilities, but I've never been to a game at Assembly Hall, and I'd love to see Maryland at Indiana in a big game. You saw a big game at Assembly Hall, because Nocky's told me the two places that he is absolutely in love with since we went to the Big Ten, Indiana and Purdue. He said Mackie is incredible, an incredible environment. So that's... You know what it was great about that Indiana game, Kevin, was Maryland that ended up winning it, and that was right before Indiana fired their coach.

Right. Everybody talks about the Indiana fans, but they're just like us. They started doing the coach when they had like a five-point lead. Oh, yeah. Like the angst coming out of a crowd was... I felt the Midwestern crowd was supposed to be nice and supportive. That really threw me for a loop there.

No, the Indiana fans are actually, famous for being incredibly hard on their team and most importantly the opponents. When Maryland played Indiana the 2020 season, I'll never forget this day because it's the day that Kobe Bryant died. And Maryland was playing Indiana. You'll remember the game. It's the great 2020 team that didn't get to play in the tournament, won the Big Ten regular season title, shared in the Big Ten regular season title. And Sticks had a putback to win the game pretty much with like two seconds to go

in a great basketball game. And the second half, you could tell because the news broke and it broke on social media and then all a sudden the networks about Kobe's death. And the whole second half, I'm watching that game with one of my sons who is the biggest Kobe Bryant fan, but also the biggest

terp fan. And it's a day that, like, we'll never forget, you know, when we heard about it and then we're watching the game, but we're flipping back to CNN and other networks that are covering it. It was an odd day, but I'd like to go there. And here's another, maybe the oldest barn that I've never been to is the Pellestra. Have you been to the Pellestra? No, I had tickets and I did not go to the Pesstra. And I absolutely wanted to do that. I haven't done it. But yeah, that's like one of these old stadiums that, like, just maybe they'll be around in 50 years. I expect that they won't.

Yeah, I expect that they won't either. All right, let's... Can I ask you a quick... I want to ask you a quick question. Sure. I thought you're going to go this way. Like, what's the best event? Like, the number one event that you've been to.

Okay, so the in terms... The Masters was special in terms of being at Augusta. It was spectacular. I don't think I've ever been on a property where not one blade of grass seemed to be out of place. It was almost the lushness in the greenery and all of that that was as breathtaking as the golf. I actually have a quick story to share with you,

and I think some of my listeners have heard it. But I was there on a Thursday with my youngest son. We were supposedly on a college trip, a college visiting trip. My wife knew we were at the Masters, But the day after when we played Pinehurst on the way home, she thought we were visiting Wake Forest. This was my... Dad of the year. The dad of the year.

This was my third. When you get to the third, it's like, if he's not going to MIT or an Ivy or Stanford, it's like he's just going to have to sell something when he gets out. Maryland, South Carolina, Wake, they're all basically the same. Anyway, we were sitting down the fairway on number one. And Jason Day's T-shot started coming in our direction. It hit right in front of me and slammed into my knee, and then the ball stopped right behind a tree on number one. So everybody's like, are you all right?

I'm like, yeah, I'm all right. There was a welt on my knee, but that's beside the point. I, you know, they're like, oh, you can get a hat or you can get a something signed his glove. I'm like, I don't want anything. I just want them to make pars. somehow. So anyway, long story short, I get back to the show, and I was doing the show with Kooley at the time, and I told him the story about Jason Day's ball. And by the way, Jason Day came up and said, do you want anything? No, I don't want anything. I'm good. Just go make par.

His next shot, by the way, from behind the tree was a punchout shot across the fairway. So I get back to my Monday, or I guess, yeah, I was back on Monday. And I'm telling Kooley, the story. And he says to me, you're making this up. This didn't happen. I'm like, what are you talking about? Yes, it happened. Why would I make that up? He goes, the Jason Day Thursday, number one, went viral. He hit a ball into some dude's beer cup. It went viral. I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. his drive hit the turf in front of me and bamed into my knee and parked it right behind a tree. He goes, no, you're making it up. And he shows me the viral video of him hitting into a guy's beer cup.

Well, I figured it out. Finally, I said, no, you dummy, that was his chip out from behind the tree. It went across the fairway and landed in some guy's beer cup. so and that's the God's honest truth his chip out from behind the tree landed in some guy's beer cup and then that guy apparently got like a signed glove or something he actually wanted whatever it was

so Jason there has to be video of you right well you know not video necessarily of like the ball slamming into me it was number one it was early in the morning on Thursday remember that part of it is it necessarily televised. But the guy with the beer cup with the ball in the beer cup, you know,

swallowed up by the beer that was in the cup, that went viral on social media. And, um, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. But let me just, to answer your question, man, I still feel like RFK Stadium for a big Redskins Cowboys game back in the day in the championship game in 82, January of 83, is the loudest and most raucous and bloodthirsty environment I've ever been in as a sports fan. Now, I've been to Michigan, Ohio State at the big house. That was okay. LSU Bama at night in Death Valley, I went to, John. And that is top three for sure. The decibel level in that place and the scene was unbelievable. Penn State Whiteout games are up there.

But a big championship fight in Vegas, I'm not sure there's anything like it. And it's been a long time since I've been to one because it's been a long time since they've really had one, you know, with that particular sport. But in the 90s,

2000s, I went to a bunch of big fights in Vegas and there's just something about the electricity of, you know, the boxers walking into the ring and then And it's something else to witness live. So that's probably right up there with Skins, Cowboys, LSU, Bama, that kind of stuff. By the way, keep your eyes on TKO.

Dana White is doing this Zufa boxing, and he's trying to sort of bring the, you know, UFC ideals to boxing and try to, you know, create something where you're going to end up having those big fights. Because the problem with the big fights now is you can name like maybe two, three fighters. Exactly. It's hard to have a big fight right now. Yeah. But he's trying to build something there. And he has the money of like Mark Shapiro and Arii Flores behind him.

And Dana White is a tireless. And they have a plan that was already laid out and successful from UFC. So it's something that I know the financial markets are taking a look at. keeping my eye on it. I think as a chance to be really successful and be a boon for boxing. I mean, I think the last, Tommy and I did shows out in Vegas

during some of the Mayweather fights, some of the Pachial fights, and that was really the last time I was out there. Yeah, Floyd Mayweather actually came on with us on the show when we were doing a show

out there. All right, this is not why I called you, but again, it always devolves into a lot more. So let's start with the World Cup and the rating that the U.S. Belgium game got and the night before with Mexico and England and what your response to that was. I mean, I've already talked about it on the show,

50 plus million viewers for U.S. Belgium, 46 plus million viewers for England, Mexico. Help me understand what that meant. and what it will mean? You know, that means those numbers don't blow me away that much, to be honest. Really? Well, they did. It was kind of expected.

I mean, this is the World Cup. America loves big events, and the U.S. had been playing well, and they got up there, and it doesn't mean that those, you know, 50 million that watch that game all of a sudden is going to start watching, you know, D.C. United on the... Apple TV, they like the World Cup. They understand the fact that it's a big event

that to play. Let me throw out a number, though, that blows me away is that Argentina England game had 15 million people watch it. 15, 15, 15, 15 million people on a Wednesday afternoon in the middle of summer

during the work week. what else would get that? You put an NFL game there. It's not coming close to that. And it wasn't the U.S. team. It wasn't the Mexican team. It wasn't the Canadian team. I guess England is a little bit of drawing.

Messi certainly is a draw. But 15 million in the middle of the afternoon when just the 24 hours earlier, another like 12 or 13 million were watching the other semifinal. Those are the numbers. I'm just kind of like, wow, this thing. is really just

crazily popular every four years and it's something that there are a lot of people that are that that are talking this up now Kevin and it's a you know I just think back right before the tournament start and started and all you saw

was you know immigration problems and tickets were cost too much and there were blocks of unfold tickets Right. Travel, travel was going to be a disaster. And this happens before every World Cup. It happened before the World Cup in Qatar, before the World Cup in Russia eight years ago. There are always these stories beforehand, before journalists can write about the games on the field, they talk about how bad everything is going to be.

You can set your watch. They're going to be stories about how L.A. is completely unprepared for the Olympics. there in uh in 2028 and it's going to be that is going to be massively successful for for l.A. for the i.O.C. for for the u.s. in uh in l. So I just want to sort of come back like those big numbers that you said. Yeah, they were huge, but it's proof of concept. Like this happens in every country every year. It doesn't necessarily mean that we're turning into a soccer nation.

It just means we love big events and this is a big event and the the U.S. for the first time. and in a long time looked like they could really compete until they didn't. And that just drew a lot of people in watching. And don't dismiss all the stuff to happen with the red card and Trump. It just sort of got people talking about the game, interested in the game, and focused on that game. I'm not blown away by that number because I expected the World Cup to provide numbers that would reach those levels. But you were blown away with the Argentina, England,

15 plus million in the France, Spain, 11 to 12 million. On Tuesday and Wednesday, midday. Tuesday, what's afternoon? In the middle of summer. Yeah. That is, that is, those numbers are incredible. It's not like people are streaming them in their homes. They're actually watching it on, you know,

Nielsen rated television. said. And that also doesn't include, so the 50 million number was both Fox and Telemundo. Those numbers that I gave you, they were just Fox numbers. Just Fox.

I haven't seen what the, yeah, I haven't seen what the Telemundo ones are, but you can bet that Telemundo added another 5 million to it. It was like 20 million people in the middle of the afternoon. John, everybody talks about the first.

Who's watching? Everybody talks about the first, the first weekend of the first couple of games of the NCAA tournament, they would kill to get $15 million. Don't show in that. Sure. Who's watching?

The people that are watching, the reason that these numbers are getting so high is that the World Cup has been particularly effective in bringing in the casual sand. And so it's, you know, the soccer diehards are certainly watching, but they're they still are limited in number. This is, you know, Fox gave me a crazy statistic about the people that were watching that USA Belgium game. I think it was like 58% had not seen one second of a soccer match for the previous four years. So it's an entirely new group of fans that are coming in that just want to watch the World Cup because the World Cup makes headlines.

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. And I think what you indicated is it fits in with the way I view it. And I think a lot of my friends view it or a lot of new friends have started to watch this. And that is, we don't love soccer, but we like the World Cup. So when this thing ends on Sunday, it'll be another four years for a lot of people until they watch again. What do you think the game will do Sunday? What's the projected? How many millions? You know what? I'm not – I'll throw a number out because you ask, but this I'm just grabbing out of thin air.

I wouldn't be surprised if it approached $30 million for the final on a Sunday afternoon, at least on Fox, which is, like, again, a ridiculous number. I mean, $50 million for the U.S. that's the U.S. team. That's like the hometown team. But it's a, every part of this has been popular. The tournament has been popular, and it's, it is a proof of concept that the World Cup every four years being run by FIFA. You know, like, the, FIFA could do the exact opposite of what it's always done, and it would still be this popular. 30 million, by the way, I'm just thinking about Ram Cahawks, you know, NFC Championship game on Fox. What did that do? Do you know the number off the top of your head?

Oh, I don't know off the top of my head, but as I recall, the championship games were approached about 50 million. Yeah, okay. And then the Super Bowl does what, 120, 110? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Super Bowl is something totally unto its own. What do you think about the discussion about them expanding from 48 to 64? I love it.

I like I look everybody nobody wants to expand the NCAA tournament but then when they do the ratings still go up and you still have upsets. Why not expand? I think you had um oh god who who was that team that that that uh Miami of Ohio. No, I'm talking about the soccer team that that lost to Argentina then went home to a hero's welcome. Cape Verne, Cape Verne? Was it Cape Verne? I don't know if they would have gotten in or not, but I think they probably got in because the tournament expanded, and they were a great story, and people followed them.

Why not expand? I think, like, they should expand even more. I could tell you that the TV networks would love to have more games to put out there. It's something that I expect that I expect that's one easy prediction. I expect that FIFA will expand and it shouldn't be a problem. So you just brought up the NCAA tournament. That's on my list of things to ask you about because it's expanding to 76 teams. And that means that you get games, you know, many games on Tuesday and Wednesday

before you get to the normal bracket of 64 first round games on Thursday and Friday. and basically what's going to happen here, I'm sure you've already figured this out, is that 24 teams are going to play 12 games over Tuesday and Wednesday because you'll get 12 winners added to 52. We'll give you 64 on Thursday and Friday. Do you think those 12 games six each day? Will there be any during the day or will they go to Windows at night with three games and three games on CBS, TBS and True TV? I would imagine it's going to spill over tonight. Excuse me, spill over to the day. They play on the day on Thursday. They play on the day on Friday. But it's kind of sacred. Don't you think that that Thursday, Friday, the afternoon games is kind of a special thing?

I'm wondering if they're going to want to start that sooner with, you know, it would only be like two games, you know, it wouldn't be the four happening at the same time in each window. Yeah, but they can make these Tuesday and Wednesday as game sacred. I mean, the one thing I know about these sports leagues is it was sacred never to have a clock in baseball. And now the pitching clock is the most popular thing in baseball. So the idea of those being sacred and they can't walk on it, I don't think anybody that is involved with the business of the NCAA tournament. Things about it that way.

All right, let's take a quick break. A lot more with John Orand after these words. of our sponsors. My bookie is the place to bet on the World Cup final. If you're a listener to this podcast, they're offering all of my listeners a betback bonus of up to $500 on the World Cup final on Sunday. What does that mean? Well, you get your money back up to $500 if your bet loses.

If your bet wins, they pay you. If it loses, you get your money back. There's no risk, and they're allowing you to wager up to $500 on the game Sunday. There's also a game tomorrow, the third place game, between France and England. You can wager on that one too. But two more games in the World Cup, two more opportunities to take a free no-risk betting swing. Go to mybooky.com or my bookie.orgie.orgie.org and use my promo code, Kevin D.C.

You have to use that promo code Kevin D.C. to get the betback bonus. Again, mybooky.com or mybooky.orgie. com or mybooky.orgia promo code Kevin D.C. So I was reading this morning that Adam Silver is a little bit perturbed

that LeBron hasn't made his decision yet about where he's going to play because as we've talked about this 76 billion dollar deal that the NBA did with about 45 different networks, that they're trying to put their schedule together. Man, LeBron is still the biggest needle mover, one of them in the game. Silver said he can't put together the schedule until LeBron commits to a team.

It's true. I mean, think about how many times the Lakers were on last year, and he has a lot of mouth to feed between NBC, ESP. and Amazon. But the idea of LeBron still being a needle mover, I mean, it seems like yesterday, but geez, it was like a quarter century ago when we were cheering for the Pudgy MJ with the Wizards. And that place was sold out every single game, and he moved the needle back then.

You know, and he turned into a sort of a jump shooter, and we never made the playoffs. but but but you know it was still able to move in you know that's that sort of where i where lebron is right now uh does the NBA summer league do ratings or not not really yeah it did in my house i mean how excited are you well when i thought that the first two games like that this a jubonza guy is like but you know these are summer league games against players who aren't going to be in the league primarily i i know but the fan in me is like All right. Trey Johnson looking like the best player on the court.

I was like, wow. I have it in the finals right now. I've minimized, belittled, and made sport of those that have gotten super excited about H.A. DeBonsa because of two summer league games. Because, you know, you and I both remember, I mean, well, there are, I mean, so many things meant nothing years ago. but this NBA Summer League phenomena, and I'm glad to hear, honestly, I am glad to hear it doesn't do very well in the ratings. That gives me some faith in my fellow man NBA fans. But man, that thing has 10, 15 years ago, we never had a conversation about the NBA summer leagues.

Never. No, I wouldn't even think of putting one of my players in the Summer League back back. Not only is it about the games, but, you know, from my, I have never been, but I keep getting told that I need to go because it becomes almost like a trade show for NBA, NBA executive level folks that are just kind of there walking around and easy to, you know, to talk to. So it's gone beyond just sort of fans watching games. So the entire business of the NBA sort of moves out to Vegas for a week or so. Look, that's about Vegas as much as it is anything else more likely than not. All right. Tell me about that.

That's actually an irrefutable point right there. What's the future of the Major League Baseball All-Star game? Oh, you know, I just had Evendrelic on my podcast, and we were talking about this. the game last week was horrifically boring a couple of first inning runs you know

and the the players aren't really competing growing up you know I'm an Oriole fan I'm an AL guy hated the NL

well I don't there's no hatred to the NL there's the same league it's just called called different things the one thing about baseball though is

you know the NFL can't figure out the Pro Bowl. And the NBA has tried to figure out what to do with its All-Star game. And, you know, could have caught on something here with the international stuff that it did this year. And hockey has been tooling around with things. Baseball, it's the OG of All-Star Games.

Fox, which carries the All-Star game and MLB, they like to tinker with it, but they like the whole concept about the All-Star game. So the future of the All-Star game is that it's going to continue. as you see it for, you know, at least the next three years until the media deal. And I would expect after that. They don't, baseball and Fox, more importantly, they don't view this All-Star game as a problem. It brings in a pretty healthy viewership for Fox. They're able to sell ads around it.

They're able to, you know, take clients out and shooze with them at the All-Star game. And so it works, the business of it works, and it hasn't fallen to the point where fans are turning on it, like they turned on the pro ball for the NFL or the NBA All-Star game. Yeah, I mean, I get that. It's the actual, the game itself is played like the game, you know, is played, whereas the NBA All-Star games is a joke and the NFL's turned it into flag or whatever, you know, it's become. the Nats in the season they have had and the challenges with, you know, watching them if you don't have, you know, X-Finity, if you've got YouTube TV, etc. Do you have any idea how that's going for them? They've had a surprising season, but is anybody watching? I have not been able to see what viewership numbers are. to be perfectly honest.

Okay. This is, this is, one of the things to look at, so I have no clue whether they're doing well or not, but one of the things that, that I find interesting is, even with an RSN,

you're able to hit casual fans and potentially grow a fan base. Right. One of the, one of the reasons that, you know, these teams like to put their, um,

their games on broadcasts, like local broadcast stations. Like, you know, you're watching a CSI, rerun and then, you know, oh, there's this game, I may as well keep watching it. And it's a way to grow an audience. Well, if you're going to subscribe to the Washington Nationals.com and view the stream,

you've got to be a fan, right? And so that's a, I do wonder with the demise of all the RSNs, with the demise of all these local rights, I wonder how that really is going to affect, you know, the gate and how that's going to affect other aspects of what's going on. I can tell you that at the halfway point, baseball, by every metric is doing well. TV ratings are up pretty considerably. Attendance is at its highest point in a decade. You know, sponsorship dollars, I'm talking about all business side and not on the field play,

but, you know, the business metrics that sponsorship dollars are up considerably this year. So nothing is suggesting that overall, baseball is having a problem because what's happening with the Nets not unique to D.C. It's happening all over the country. So it's just something to be mindful of and to keep your eye on it. Because if it's all of streaming, like if you're going to watch it on streaming, you're a hardcore fan. Yeah, sure. All right.

Last thing that I had on my list, and that is the Seahawks sale. I know it's still pending approval, but $9.6 billion. John, three years after Snyder sold to Josh Harris and 20-something limited partners for just over $6 billion. You know what? It looks like right now Josh Harris and company got a really good deal. They did. But when Josh Harris bought that, the team, they set a record.

I know, and nobody else wanted to pay it other than him. Yeah. And so there are a couple of things at play. here and I'm going to get the first thing out that if you ask me a follow-up question, I'm not going to be able to answer because my knowledge based on this is sort of a mile wide and an inch deep. Okay. There have been, there have been sort of some tax advantages that have gone through that sort of, you know, when you buy a sports franchise, like you pay, there are tax advantages to doing it. So these big numbers are mitigated a little bit by the savings on the other

on top of that a couple of years ago all these leagues started allowing private equity and so that helped the problem with the prices being where they are right now is that there are only so many individuals that have that kind of money so they need help in order they do it and and there's a ton of private equity out there I just came back from New York I was in New York after Philly I went up to New York there's so much much PE money that's looking to get into sports. I mean, somebody's launching a horse racing league and people are dying to give them money. All the different pickleball leagues that are out there.

There's just really smart money going after these things because there are only so many places to get in sports. And if you want to be part of the Lucky 100 and get into a sports team ownership or be part of the Lucky 32 and get into the NFL, I mean, that's, when that comes available, then you do it. So there are a lot of things conspiring to make this happen, but the idea that Seattle went for, you know, $3 billion more than the commanders,

when the commanders are like a proud old franchise, and I mean, you want to compare franchises, I would imagine the commanders are more valuable than the Seattle Seahogs. Shia. That is another one of those numbers. is that take your breath away. Yeah, I had somebody who I know very well in the overall ownership group of our team, and he just texted me, Seattle, like Seattle.

Like, it's not D.C., all due respect. You know, the purchaser is, it's not a private equity firm. It's not a hedge fund. It's not foreign money. It is an individual. I understand he's in that business. he also came from Sun Microsystems. But, you know, the NFL's yet to have an actual private equity firm or a hedge fund

or something similar to that actually take ownership of one of its teams. Well, the NFL does. All of the leagues have rules in place to where they do not want private equity. You can only take up to it like a 10% stake. It's 10% I think in the NFL, right. Yeah. Yeah, they don't want private equity running. running an NFL team like a private equity company, you know.

Let's strip this down. Let's strip that down and fill the assets off. So all of the leagues are trying to keep that at pay as much as they can. All right. Let's finish up with this. Give me the next big thing that's coming in sports business or sports media. What story are you looking forward to covering? I'll give you a boring answer first, and I'll give you a good one. But the NFL media rights, they want to renew those media rights. And they have an out in their contracts at the end of the decade after the 20-29 season.

And so they're basically all of the different networks are going to have to pay up and get them. And sort of how the NFL handles this is just a big story that is. sort of never-ending. Right. But that's, that's a result. I hear people turning off the podcast now, Kevin, I apologize. No, you know, I'm interested. There's a knock-on effect to that that I'm particularly interested in.

And that's, this is happening as court-cutting continues to happen. Disney and NBC and CBS are not finding the same amount of money in streaming. as they do in the old traditional television. Right. And so all of a sudden they're stuck with all of these bills, and they're going to have to cut costs. And there's going to be a bunch of properties that you're going to be surprised. Well, A, not find a deal, or B, have to take a pretty big haircut

in order to move forward, because all that matters right now to these networks are the NFL, which takes care of the fall, the NBA, which is set for the next 10 years, of course. But, you know, that takes care of the winner. I think baseball is doing okay. I think certain college football is doing okay. And then everything else is like, who knows? If I'm Brian Roll up in the PGA tour, I'm a little bit concerned

because it's sort of afternoon programming at a time when, you know, there's no cable operator that is paying extra money for a channel because it happens to have, you know, the Connecticut open or something like that. So I think that trying to follow that and trying to figure out what leagues fall on the good side of that line and what the leagues fall on the bad side of that line is sort of my job for the next two, three years. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, remember, I think everybody but people like you were surprised when kind of ESPN said no more to MLB even, right? No, exactly. Although they wanted to get out of that because they were paying too much for that deal. I just wrote a deal about Bundesliga, the German soccer league that ESPN was paying $30 million for per year, 30 million per year for German soccer that it would stream.

Well, they went to Verson, which is those, those. channel. They own golf channel and they own USA. They're the old Comcast channels that spun off. And Verthin's paying them 20 million per per year. And so in order to make that up, they then went to Telemundo to get, like, I think, you know,

8 or 9 million per year or whatever. But, you know, so you're starting to see like ESPN saying, we can't afford to pay you that. And even Vertham was like, well, we can't afford to pay you what ESPN paid you. So these leagues are having to be as unique. They have to do whatever they can to try to make it up of that money.

None of this will affect the NFL in our lifetime, though. Those numbers are going to continue to go up. You know what I said about the people? My thing about the NFL is like at every point in the last like 20 years, that they had done the exact opposite, it would still be as popular as it is now. The NFL is unique as a property. And it doesn't have to worry. for the foreseeable future.

The one thing that would worry me if I'm the NFL, though, is if they charge too much money and send, say, Fox out of business, you know, if they lose some of these bidders, you know, I'm not certain that YouTube is willing to jump in

and pay what Fox, CBS, and everybody else is paying for all that tonnage of games. They just want, like, Netflix is very happy. We have five games. That's all we need to make our subscribers happy.

You know how we've always had the conversation, about, you know, over-the-air games and the NFL's games should be over the air, and obviously a lot of them aren't now. I don't even know if that conversation is as important. That's my intuitive thought. Tell me if I'm wrong. I'm now expecting half of NFL games 10 years from now or even more to be streamed. Who's your carrier? YouTube TV. Yeah. I mean, how great is YouTube? So I turn on YouTube. All of a sudden, as soon as I turn it on, it knows me. And so there's a big square that says, you know, Maryland basketball. Oh, yeah, it's all right there. Yeah.

I click on it. I don't know if it's CBS. I don't know if it's Peacock. I don't know if it's NBC. It doesn't even matter. It's an unbelievable way to watch now. And so I have to believe that's sort of the wave of the future. However, if you take a look at any statistic, broadcast TV still brings in many, many, many more viewers than streaming and certainly than cable. So the trend to streaming is happening. My head's not in the sand with it, but if I were a sports property, I would be falling over myself to get my stuff on broadcast television. as much as I can over the next five years or so. John has a podcast called The Varsity,

which you can get wherever you get your podcasts at Orand underscore Puck to a link to his puck news newsletter. I absolutely recommend that you're the best. Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the game Sunday. You know what? My favorite part is that you asked me to come on.

You're like, it's not going to be long like every other time. Yeah, I say that to you all the time. But you know what? There are a couple of people that say that to me every once in a while, and my response is, it's not my fault, it's yours. You're too good. Are you kidding? I have too much fun.

You like sports business. He really likes sports business. Thanks for having me on, Kevin.