The Kevin Sheehan Show - Chance For Conversation Changer

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

Kevin and Thom today on the chance that Washington's game Monday night in Cincinnati might change the conversation about what's possible this season. They talked more Terry McLaurin, "A Few Good Men", NFL Hall of Fame nominees, Caleb Williams/CJ Stroud, and Thom had his Commanders-Bengals prediction.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor as always as Wind Donation.

Give him a call. 86690 Nation. Head to Windonation.com if you need new windows. Tommy from Harris 50. Stop attacking Terry, as in Terry McClearn. He's been the best thing we've had the last five years. No way you can name. 20 receivers better than him. Just try. Oh, I might, Harris 50. I might. This from Daniel,

Daniel writes, I think it was mean to talk about Terry McLaurin the way you guys did yesterday. Polling if he's a true number one was way too negative, even for sports talk radio. So, oh my God. Daniel was not referring to the two of us. He was referring to Denton and I on radio, we were talking about Terry, and Terry McLaren's been a topic here because he's got eight receptions for 39 yards. He's averaging 4.9 yards per reception in the first two games. So there has been a lot of talk about Terry. In fact, in Dan Quinn's just completed press conference earlier today, there were multiple questions about Terry McLaren. So, yeah. And so it was Denton and I, excuse me, that were talking.

about him and Denton, I am going to put it on him because it was not my idea, but Denton put out a Twitter poll on the Team 980 page asking if Terry McClure was a true number one wide receiver. 62% of the respondents, by the way, said no, 38% said yes. But I'm going to say something that's going to surprise you in answering Daniel before I answer Harris 50. because I will tell you that while my normal reaction would be to Daniel and to Harris, hey, fellas, man up a little bit. Okay, this is, you know, this is big boy talk time. If you don't want to participate and you want to go, you know, talk about Sam, Hal and Carson,

Wentz, and how great they are, that's fine. Go ahead and do that. But, you know, the truth is when Denton told me during the break on radio yesterday that he had put up that poll, I said to him, I don't I didn't feel good about it I thought it was a bit too much not because I thought it was mean

that's you know sorry Daniel that's a bit soft I mean mean is more apropos to a personal attack you know which by the way even though one of us gets accused more than the other of personal attacks

it's still very rare on this show and what's been said about Terry on the show that at least I've been involved in this week is constructive criticism. And if you're in that very small part of the fan base that gets, you know, triggered or provoked by any criticism of this team or players on the team, I just think, you know, the idea that anybody associated with this group, including the guys that we likened appreciate, nobody's beyond reproach.

nobody's beyond constructive critique because they haven't done anything. This is not, you know, the Baltimore Ravens we're talking about. This is a team that's been lousy for a long time. And by the way, been lousy on offense too. You know, so it's not like there, you know, is anybody that is beyond a constructive critique. That just is. a bit too much for me. My thing really, as it relates to Daniel's email, is that it's just way too early to be criticizing or, you know, putting out there on a Twitter poll, you know, do you think Terry's a number one receiver? I kind of felt that way. And so I, Daniel and Harris weren't the only people that tweeted me this reaction. Most of the

reactions were, yes, he is a number one receiver because of XYZ, no, he isn't a number one receiver because of XYZ. You know, a mature, let's have a conversation about this response. But it's way too early to kind of, I think, describe Terry McClorn in, I think, a perceived critical way, not constructively critical when you're asking if he's a number one receiver or not after two games. It's just too early. So Daniel, I kind of agree with you. Harris 50, I can name 20 that I'd rather have over him, but I'm not going to do it today. We do that in the offseason, but if you're watching the league rather than just our team,

you can certainly come up with an easy 15 and then another 10 that you might consider to be debatable. But Terry's a good receiver. Like I've been saying all along with these conversations, he's a good receiver, he's just not a great or a force feed receiver. And we're now on, you know, coordinator number four and quarterback number 72 with him. And nobody has decided to force feed him. And by the way, Dan Quinn said when he was asked about that today, it's not what we want to do. We want the quarterback to go where the progressions take him and throw to the, you know, throw to the guy who's open. You know, and a lot of people don't like to bring it down to this level, but I have no problem doing it.

He's making $23 million a year. Okay? All criticism related to what he does on the football field is valid. All of it. Okay? He's not a kid. Okay? He's not some kid at Frostburg State.

He's getting $23 million a year. year to be a number one receiver. And I think all this criticism and all this hand-wringing that you're being too mean to Terry McClure. No, it's bad. I mean, this has been ridiculous. I mean, what, what, you had six catches for 22 yards last week? That's like Randall, Randall, what was saying?

Randall L. Antoine Randall L? Remember when he was here? Those are his numbers. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who are feeling sorry for time. I like Terry McCorm he's a stand-up guy, he seems to be.

I think that's part of it. I think that's a big part of the negative reaction to anybody being negative about him. Now, part of it is what I said. There are people out there that just cannot stand when you're critical of anybody on the team. let alone somebody they think is super special, you know.

But that's where it's like, you know, put your big boy pants on and have a conversation about this. And if you don't want to, that's fine. You can sit it out. But I just think it wasn't about whether or not it was mean for me. I think it was too premature after two games. Terry's numbers are going to be a lot better than they were over these first two games. He's going to average, I promise you.

more than 4.9 yards per reception. That's like an absolute given. And he's one deep ball, 70-yard touchdown away in the Tampa game on the first down in the third quarter of the first play of the third quarter away from those numbers being completely different. But he's not a force-feed wide receiver. Okay, that's really the overarching theme of the conversation about Terry McCorn. not a, well, you just have to get him.

And it doesn't matter if he's doubled. You got to get him the football. No, that's not what he is. He's a good receiver. He's not one of those guys. You saw one of those guys Sunday on the field, but he was playing for the other team. Yeah, he wasn't playing for commanders.

Yeah. Like I said, I think it's all valid criticism at this point. Even if you think it's premature, Sure. I think it's valid. I mean, last week, that's a startling number to me. And, you know, I don't care if you're playing the quarterback. You blame the offensive coordinator. You know, he's the guy catching the ball. He's the receiver. Let me ask you a question. A lot of wide receivers are prima donnas. Terry is not.

Correct. You think that comes into play? No. No, because I think if he were a prima don't work for him. Because he doesn't have that kind of talent to be then on top of it a prima donna. But the coaches and the quarterbacks and the players turn their heads and say, it doesn't matter, we got to get him the ball because he's that good. So that would not work for him. If his attitude was walking that huddle and say, get me.

the damn ball? No. No, I don't think so. I don't know. So there are a couple of things that Dan Quinn talked about today, and as it related to Terry, and I just wanted to mention them, because I also have something to kind of just mention as it relates to him moving forward in the offense. So Quinn said, you know, there was a 12-yard completion to Terry McCorn on an RPO, but it was called back because Nick Allegretti was downfield early. So one of those RPO's run-pass option, not a read option, but the quarterback makes the decision on a run call to pull it and throw it, which he did.

And Aligretti, by the way, the play was interesting because it wasn't your typical RPO run. It was a counter to Brian Robinson, Jr. With, I think it was guard and tackle pulling. But quarterback pulled it through a slant, Terry. a good throw, good catch, 12-yard play, nullified by a penalty. Terry was also open a couple of times, and Jaden looked in a different direction. And he was open a couple of times in the first game. And one, he overthrew him, the bomb that he overthrew him on,

and another time off schedule, which has been the one missed, you know, the several missed opportunities in the first two games have been when Jaden's gone off script, not throwing to receivers before he crosses the line of scrimmage. He had Luke McCaffrey wide open on Sunday, and he had Terry wide open on a play against Tampa. But he said that they want to move Terry around more. They tried that a little bit more. He wasn't exclusively lined up on one side,

although he was predominantly lined up on one side, but he was in the slot on, I think, nine or ten plays. they'd love to get, and he is the attention of the defense. He gets bracketed. He gets doubled more than anybody else. And look, Scott Turner did a decent job with motion, with formation of getting Terry matched up against somebody that he could really take advantage of or getting them off of, you know, the opportunity to be doubled.

So I think we're going to see more of that than moving Terry around. I also think that you're going to see Terry be a big part of the RPO game, which he will be because typically he's a targeted receiver in that game. But they're not going to force feed him the ball. They're not going to do that. They want the quarterback to go through the progressions, go through the process, and throw to the person he's supposed to throw to based on what the coverages show.

You know, there are teams in this league that, say, I don't care what coverage is you're in. We're throwing the ball to Justin Jefferson. We're throwing the ball to Jamar Chase. We're throwing the ball to Devante Adams. We're giving A.J. Brown a chance against double coverage because he's 6'4 and he's 2.30 and we trust him in that situation. It's not going to be what this team is about. It just isn't. They're going to throw to the open man and you'll say, well, who is going to get open other than Terry? Well, I think the title end, Zach Ertz is a big part of... He was open.

Yeah, I think it's a big part of what they want to do. Yeah. And I think... He stays healthy. That will be a big part. Yeah. Diami Brown won a couple of times and didn't get a look from Jaden. And Noah Brown did win big a couple of times.

And he did get the ball from Jaden Daniels, including the big one on the final drive that put them, you know, right on the edge of field goal range. They got more yardage and ended up getting the field goal. I wanted to read. So anyway, anything else on Terry? No. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, I mean, I'm rooting for him because he is such a good guy. And remember, he was a third round draft pick. He wasn't a first round draft pick.

He was a third rounder. Yeah, I don't care about that at this point. I mean, Devante Adams wasn't, you know, a first round pick. I mean, several of the elite receivers in the league were not first round picks. Was Devante Adams a first round pick? No, he was the second round pick. So that doesn't matter to me. I would just say that I'd be very surprised if Terry doesn't have a Terry kind of a year,

which reception-wise puts him like in the top 30, somewhere between 30 and 25, and the yardage puts him somewhere, you know, between 10 and 15. Actually, that wasn't where he was last year in yardage. Last year in yardage, you know, we tend to forget that, you know, a thousand yards receiving isn't that big of a deal anymore. Last year, he was 28th in reception yardage, and he was 24th in receptions in the league. His reception yardage was over 1,000 yards, but just barely at 1,0002, that put him 28th in the league. There were 27 receivers that had more reception yardage. Yes, he did not have a good quarterback last year.

Yes, he did not have a good quarterback the year before or the year before that. We all understand that. We do. DeAndre Hopkins didn't have a great quarterback last year. He had, you know, well over 1,000 yards. Garrett Wilson had a shitty quarterback situation last year and caught 95 balls for over 1,000 yards. George Pickens didn't have a good quarterback. situation. He went over a thousand yards and Devante Adams caught 103 passes for 1144 yards with

primarily Aiden O'Connell, a rookie quarterback last year. Pitman Jr. didn't have a big-time quarterback, and he went for 109 catches in 1152 yards. So it happens without, you know, good quarterbacks or elite quarterbacks. But, okay, we're moving on from this conversation. I hear you, Daniel. I kind of felt that way, actually, especially with respect to the Twitter poll, which ironically, the majority of people that responded said he wasn't a number one receiver. He is a number one receiver. By definition, he's one of the best 32 in the game. He's one of the best 25 in the game. One of the best 20, 25 in the game. He's certainly the commander's number one receiver. Yes, definitely. This from NY Law, H-T-T-R, He gave us five stars on Apple's review and rating chance and wrote the following.

NORAD and NATO adopt Tom and Kevin's analysis of DefCon levels for NFL teams. I was driving to work and was listening to the podcast. I was almost late for court because I needed to hear what DefCon level Kevin felt we were at. Absolutely hysterical. Like Lifelong Skins fan in Upstate New York, great show. Thank you, NY Law, H-T-T-R, from Jerome, Code Red, question mark, question mark, he gave us five stars as well. Rate us and review us if you get a chance, especially on Apple and Spotify, and follow us. That's just as important.

We're finding out following us with that plus sign on Apple or that follow button on Spotify. If you can do that, that's even quicker than rating and reviewing us. You know what's interesting. Yeah. I mean, we talk about Code Red, which Jake Rudin made famous, and based on the movie A Few Good Men, you know, the Code Red. But, I mean, based on my ears of watching hospital shows, when someone's dying in a hospital, it's a Code Blue.

It's not a Code Red. Okay. Right. I wonder why. I don't know. I mean, Code Red would automatically. move people to panic and move quickly. You know, Code Blue is a pretty benign color.

Yeah, Code Blue seems like, hey, we're all good here. No emergencies going on. Is that because the person is turning blue? And then they need... No, I don't... I hope that's not it. I can't imagine that's it. You know, we're going to get calls.

We're going to get texts and stuff from doctors now. Let me just give... Let me just give you the AI overview of codes in hospitals. You're ready for it? Code Blue is a hospital emergency code that indicates a patient is in critical condition and requires immediate medical attention. It's usually called when a patient is experiencing a cardiac or respiratory arrest, but it can also be used for other medical emergencies.

There's no history assigned to why Code Blue. But code red at a hospital indicates, fire or smoke. Code black indicates a bomb threat or an active shooter. God. I would imagine code black with respect to the active shooter is a last quarter century description. But I don't know. Code Red is definitely, is Code Red. That's a military thing. Yeah. Okay. Is it? I don't know. DeathCon is. Yeah. State of nuclear readiness is...

The first time I've ever really heard it, I guess, was on a few good men. Yeah. You know, who ordered the Code Red. Who ordered the Code Red? But Code Red didn't mean emergency in a few good men. It was what they were going to do to... Oh, God, what was the guy's name? I know. I can't remember his name.

It's a Spanish name. Yeah. I can't remember. I do know this. I do know this. Kendrick was given the order to give the code red and he gave it. Yes. All right. Kiefer Sutherland was Lieutenant Kendrick. I forget what the first name of the character was. And he ordered Hal, how, whatever his name and the other guy to order the code red.

Yes. You know what my favorite scene from that movie is? At the very end, when Tom Cruise looks at, you know, Hal after he was dishonorably discharged but found not guilty, when Cruz says, Hal, you don't have to have, you don't have to have a code to have honor. And he turns around and salutes. you know, Salutes Jaffe. Was it Colonel Jaffe?

Lieutenant Caffee? Whatever. His father was, his father was the Caffee that Jack Nicholson. Oh, so that was your father. I got a story about your father, you know? Yeah. That movie, every time it's on,

do you get sucked in watching it? Absolutely. It's one of those remote stoppers. You know, you're flipping. Shawshank, a few good men. Yeah. The gods, any, one or two of the godfathers. Yep.

Lieutenant, Lieutenant Daniel Caffy, Lieutenant Jonathan Kendrick, Colonel Nathan Jessup, Lance Corporal Harold. It doesn't say his last name here. Just says Harold. And we got to, real quickly, we got to find out what the name of the guy is that was, that died.

Whatever. Good move. Really good movie. Always a good movie. And one of the great scenes, of course, is one of the great courtroom scenes with Nicholson and Cruz. Okay. It was a play, actually. It was a play turned into a movie. I didn't know that. I think Aaron Sorkin wrote it. I didn't know that. I did know Aaron Sorkin wrote it. I did not know it was a play.

Did Aaron Sorkin write the movie or the play? I don't know. I don't know. He wrote the movie. I don't know if he wrote the play. too. Okay. All right. Lance Corporal Harold Dawson Private First Class Loudon Downey. There you go. And it was Santiago. Santiago was the one who died. Yeah. That was just very sad, but we never got a chance to meet him in the movie. Yeah.

We arrived on the scene after it had been done, the code read. So, you know, with respect to the judge, giant game. It was it was DefCon. I had it at DefCon 3 up from what you described was always, for us, a resting DefCon 2. We have not been at DefCon 1 around here for about 30 plus years. You know, our lowest rate, our lowest readiness level was always DefCon 2 around here. So I raised it to DefCon 3 and they got through the Code Red DefCon 3 game with a win. Thank God. They did. Courtesy of the decision not to bring up a second kicker for the Giants.

How about Monday night, though? What is the opportunity for Monday night? Do you know that they are the biggest underdog on the board? They're an eight-point underdog right now at MyBooky. That makes them the biggest underdog. And in weeks one and two, Tommy, the biggest underdog on the board won the game outright, including New England at Cincinnati week. and then the Raiders at Baltimore last week.

What if they win this game to go to two and one? Where do people go? That's a conversation changer right there. It is kind of, isn't it? Yes, it is. You're looking at their upcoming schedule totally differently. If you think they can beat, if you think they can stop Joe Burrough

from putting more points on the board than the commanders can score. If they do that, then it's a conversation changer. It would only be three weeks, and they're playing a team that is 0-2, but they're playing an 0-and-2 team that people still believe is a really good football team because they barely lost to the chiefs. That's barely lost to the chiefs. Right. In Kansas City.

That's right. Yeah, I had Mitch Tishler. You know, he's with JP on JP's show from Monumental Sports Network. I had him on the radio show today. And it's a conversation that I've heard, or it's a description of the team's 20-24 season that I've heard a lot. Ben says this a lot, that it's a building block season. You know, there's no expectations.

It's a building block season. It's, you know, wasn't approached in the off-season. as, you know, hey, we got to win this year. And I've said all along, you know, that's just not the way NFL seasons are approached by those that are coaching and playing it, especially if you're on that list of, say, 25 teams that if they stay healthy, if they catch an opponent at the right time, if the ball bounces their way, you know, it's 10 and 7 or 7 and 10, depending on which way those things go. And I considered Washington not to be a bad team. but to be in that large group of teams where the seasons can kind of go either way.

And I said to Mitch, I understand why people refer to this season as a building block season, as year one of the recalibration. Some people have said rebuild. They don't say rebuild. They say recalibration. But when you look around and we do this every single year, and you see Minnesota, two and you see Minnesota, 2-0, New Orleans 2-0, Tampa 2-0, and Seattle 2-0. Those are the four best records through two weeks in the NFC.

And in the AFC, the Ravens are 0-2. The Bengals are 0-2. In the NFC, the Rams are o'n-2 in terms of the teams that we're supposed to be competitive this year and potential playoff teams. I just, I get it. I hope that number one, we learn more than anything else that Jaden Daniels was the right pick at the end of 17 games. But these conversations about building block years and rebuilding years, recalibrating years, when you're in the season, it changes when you go to Cincinnati on Monday night football and win. They haven't done that yet. But it is a conversation changer if they go win that game, even though it's only three games into the season. But it would be. Yes, because They are not going to win that game unless they score a lot of points. It's not going to be a defensive struggle.

Okay, Joe Burrow is going to score some points against this commander's defense. I'm telling you. Okay, so this Washington offense is going to have to skyrocket. I mean, to go from no touchdowns for Jayden Daniels, to three, at least. So it's very improbable to me for that it could happen. And not necessarily connected directly to this, but the whole building block concept, which I understand, you can't turn around the biggest garbage scow in the NFL in one season.

And I don't have a problem with that philosophy. My problem with it the way they handled it was they had an important commodity. to protect a quarterback and to develop a quarterback, and I don't think they helped them enough in either way to do that. Well, so far, so good with the offensive line, which, you know, I'm not a big fan of Wiley's performances in the first two games, but overall, it's a pretty physical run-blocking offensive line. And I promised I wouldn't get into, you know,

pass-block win rates or, you know, run-block win rates, but because it's just too early to be it's small sample. size, you know, all around. But the Giants actually are pretty good up front defensively and their front seven. And Washington rushed the ball for over 200 yards. The offensive line conversation, we had it so many times during the offseason. And I said to you, okay, but and I didn't think it was good last year either, but it's changed significantly. Plus, you have a new coaching staff. You've got a new coordinator and you've got a new quarterback. And sometimes that O line that looked terrible to you last year,

things can change just based on a few players and scheme and quarterbacking. And I think we've seen signs of that here through the first two weeks. If you want to say they didn't go out and get them enough skill position help, that may be the bigger conversation as the season moves on. That may be. That may be. you know, again, I mean, I think part of their success of running is because of the threat of Jane Daniels being able to take off and run.

No doubt. As much as the offensive line ability, it's too early to judge the offensive line. I'm not willing to let them off the hook maybe as much as you are, but I'll grant it, it's too early to judge them. But that's my whole argument about the building block thing. That's fine. you know, you can't fix everything at once, but you do have to remember, you know, your biggest investment.

You don't want to hinder his development by, you know, by not helping him as much as you can. That was my whole argument with that. But there's no doubt that a win on the road against the Bengals on Monday Night Football is counter to everything that we've seen from this organization in the past. 30 years. Yeah, what's funny is their last big, big win, if you want to call it that, I guess Ron did have a couple of wins, you know. As bad as the four years were, there were a couple of wins that were, you know, as surprising as the franchises had. And you start with that Philadelphia Monday night game back in 2022. Yes. You know, that was not expected. You know, 2020. You know,

2021 when they beat Tampa Bay with Brady at home. That was not expected. So they had a couple of those. But yeah, no, Pittsburgh in 2020, the COVID year when Pittsburgh was undefeated. And Washington went to Pittsburgh, not that there was a big crowd, but they knocked off the Steelers and derailed their perfect season. But yeah, I, the conversation changes to what? if they pull it off Monday night? Well, since the Eagles proved to be beatable on week two,

as did the Cowboys, the conversation says playoff. Why not? Why not? Right? I think you got the right answer. I think if they go in and win on Monday night, it's a conversation changer. and for a lot of people, they'll start thinking, well, why not us?

Why can't we beat Houston of last year? Why can't we be one of the two or three teams, four teams every year that aren't expected to make the playoffs that make the playoffs? I agree with you. I don't think I'll come in here on Tuesday if they beat Cincinnati and say they're going to the playoffs so that they're going to win the division. I wouldn't do that after three games. But if you do beat Cincinnati because of the position that Cincinnati is in,

O-N-2 and desperate for a win, they really have to win Monday night and not fall to O'N-3. And they are supposed to be getting healthier Monday night. It looks like T. Higgins will be back. So that is, you know, the way Washington wins this game, They just keep, they do what they did Sunday. They keep possession of the football and they don't punt and they don't turn it over and they keep Joe Burrow T. Higgins and Jamar Chase off the field as much as possible.

But I wouldn't be saying, yeah, this is clearly a playoff team, but I would then look and say, whoa, I mean, you know, that's two wins in their first three. They have the Cardinals coming up. They have the Browns coming up. They have a game at Baltimore. Baltimore might be one and four at that point. And then they've got a stretch of the Panthers, Bears, Bears, and Giants right in a row, which, again, I'm not going to fall into the trap of playing the schedule game,

you know, because it's about who you play and when you play them. And the Panthers might be a completely different team with Andy Dalton. Who knows? But, yeah, it would be a conversation changer for sure. I think they have a shot. I do. You're going to have your prediction on the game coming up a little bit later on. in the show. So stay tuned for that. But I don't think it's an impossibility at all. I mean,

I'm concerned about the defense against Burrow, Higgins, Chase, et cetera, with what we've seen through the first two games, primarily what happened on Sunday against the Giants. But it's not going to surprise me if offensively they're able to run the football and move the ball a little bit. I'm not going to surprise. I know that, but it's not how many points is it going to add up to? they're going to need depending on the possessions in the game and that's the thing is you want to lower the possession count like we saw sunday lower the possession count you know you're going to need 24 at least yeah um all right we have a couple of things to get to the hall of fame nominee list came out yesterday uh we'll talk that tom's got his prediction coming up um and there was a situation Sunday night in the NFL where Caleb Williams and C.J. Stroud met it at midfield after the game, and it's generated a lot of attention. We will give our thoughts on that. All that and more coming up.

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All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, you know, we always talk about with Shelly's, the various menus that they have, the great cigar menu, the great drink menu, and every week, the great food menu that they have. And they always have a weekly special that I'd like to let people know about. Because specials, these are specials on a special menu. The food at Shelly's is top-notch. Yes, it is. So what you already have is special, a menu of specialties, of special excellence. And add to that, these are the specials that are terrific bargains, terrific price.

You know what? Are you a rap guy? You like raps? Do I like raps? I mean, I'll have a rap every once in a while, but I'm not big. You know, it's not my go-to. No. Yeah, neither am I.

I'm not a rap guy. But this one? Yeah. This is one I'd be drawn to. a roast beef wrap, slice roast beef with Swiss cheese, lettuce, tomato, roasted onions, and roasted red pepper. I'm into that way. The flour tortilla, third with fries, and a dill pickle.

I'm hip-hop into that wrap right there. Absolutely. Okay, that's just one of the specials that they have this week, along with black and shrimp, Caesar salad, and others. You can check out the menu at shelley's backroom.com. their first class drink menu, their top cigars. You buy cigars at Shelly's. The help there will help you pick out a cigar.

If you're not used to picking one out, don't be intimidated by that. Shelley's backroom, check them out at 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. Yes, Monday Night Football at Shelly's would be a really, really good idea. For those of you that are looking for a place to go watch the game, Monday night, By the way, two games on Monday night. There's a game that starts at 730, Jacksonville, Buffalo, and then Washington and Cincinnati at 815. Pretty good spot to go watch it.

All right, so the NFL Hall of Fame nominated 167 modern era players for the class of 2025. There were a lot of first-time nominees in the class. And there were several with Washington. ties. And the list is actually long. I think Ben put out a list, Kime put out a list and went through the whole list to even mention just anybody with any kind of Washington football franchise tie. But the big names are Brian Mitchell, Clinton Portis, London Fletcher, DeAngelo Hall. Stephen Davis is on the list, but he did as much damage in Carolina as he did here. Terry Allen's on the list. Matt Turks on the list. I mean, I talked about this yesterday, Tommy. The list of, you know,

past Washington players, there's one player to focus on because none of the others are going to the Hall of Fame. And I think London Fletcher has a case to be made in terms of overall, you know, numbers and longevity. But he, I just, to me, he is outside looking in. Great career, longevity, the whole thing. He didn't make a pro-becerableness. He didn't make a pro-beats. until he got to Washington at 32, 33 years old. But it's all about B-Mitch and whether or not they seriously consider Brian for the Hall of Fame now that Devin Hester is in. I think he's going to advance much further than he has. It would not shock me if Brian Mitchell is on that final 30 list and then I think it goes 30 to 15.

because I think Hester, in his induction speech, he said Brian Mitchell, Josh Cribs. I said yesterday, Dante Hall. It was Josh Cribs who he mentioned with Brian Mitchell. Does B. Mitch deserve it? It's a debatable case. Devin Hester was not debatable. He's the greatest returner in the history of the game, pretty much. And there was never any question in my mind watching Devin Hester that there was a difference

between Devin Hester and Brian Mitchell. But Brian Mitchell is still second on the all-purpose yardage list behind Jerry Rice and 1,500-plus yards ahead of Walter Payton. In fact, he's only 216 yards behind Jerry Rice. If he were number one on that list, it might be a different situation. He's the all-time aggregate yardage leader on punt returns and kickoff returns. But that's the list for us. Eli Manning's the big discussion for the over.

nominee class, whether or not he'll be a first ballot. But I don't think Clinton, Portis, London, Fletcher, DeAngelo Hall, any of the other guys. I don't see them as Hall of Famers. I think London's got a case, you know, but it's a bit of a reach case. Brian's the one. What do you think? You're a Hall of Fame voter in baseball. You haven't, you don't do it in football, but I think the focus, really, for Washington fans should be on and will be on Brian Mitchell and how far. he advances this go-round. Yeah, look, I also vote on the Hall of Fame for boxing, too. Right, that's true.

So I vote for two of them. I would agree with you. I mean, I think Demich belongs in the Hall of Fame. I mean, I think the fact that he had, you know, second only to Jerry Rice and total offensive yards. All-purpose. Yeah, all-purpose yards speaks to his, speaks to his excellence. You know?

I mean, it's a remarkable accomplishment. to be so versatile to be able to produce that that amount of yards without being necessarily a return man and, you know, a running back like he was. You know, I don't know. I've never asked me to miss this, but I wonder if he wonders if he could have played quarterback in the league. I know he's not very tall, you know, but he was a quarterback in college. Yeah, I think in today's game, he would have been. had a much better chance than when he played. I would agree. Probably. But

B-Mitch probably wonders, he probably wonders why he ultimately didn't get as many opportunities to be a featured running back. He was the starting running back in 93, the pedibone year, and, you know, had a decent year. And I think he started off with a 100-yard-plus performance against the Cowboys to open up the 93 season on. Monday night football. But yeah, I mean, I think that Brian has a case. I don't think it's an obvious case. I think it's you got to stretch a little bit on his case because, you know, when I think of a Hall of Fame player and it doesn't necessarily apply to all the players that are in the Hall of Fame, to me, you have to have been basically the best at what you did for a period of time and without much

debate. Brian was always one of the best returners in the game, but you could probably make the case that it was more like top three, top four every year as a kickoff and punt returner. His accomplishments are more based on longevity. That's where all the yards came from. It also came, they also came from the fact that he played running back as well. But I, and to me also, and I've said this a million times. Brian was a clutch performer. He did his best work in the biggest games of his career. See, I don't think it's a stretch, and I think longevity in the NFL is one of the most important assets of all. Right. Fair? As opposed to baseball or something like that. If you can survive in the NFL that speaks to your versatility and your toughness, so I mean, I don't think

It's a stretch for me to make Brian Mitchell's case for the Hall of Fame. He is the all-time yardage leader in combined kick and punt returns. In punt return yards, career-wise, he's number one. In kick-off return yards, you know, separating them out from the combined. In kick-off return-yard's career, he is number one. And by the way, number one, buy a lot. But when you get into the averages for punt return average and kickoff return average, he's way down the list.

Touchdowns, he's up there on both punt return, combined touchdowns for punt returns and kickoff returns. But, you know, the averages where, you know, they sort of hold up in terms of, wow, that guy is something else. Brian had some good years. don't get me wrong in terms of yardages. But he was not the leader in average yards per return in enough of his seasons. But I think that's offset by what you said, longevity and offset by if you really got into

Brian's performances in the biggest games that he played in. And because he played for two organizations in particular that were big-time playoff teams when he was a part of those teams. He played in some big games during his career. I'm pulling it up right now just to see how many postseason games he played in. Hold on for one second. I'm going to get that number here in a moment. He played in 16 playoff games during his career.

That's a lot of playoff games for a player. Yeah, it is. You know, now several of them were in Philadelphia, too, but he had some big returns in playoff games in Philadelphia. In a championship game against Tampa and a championship game against Atlanta, had some big, big returns, clutch returns. But I think a lot of the focus of the Hall of Fame conversation will be on Eli Manning. First year of eligibility, he's the quarterback.

Mark Bulger, Randall Cunningham, Jake to Lone, Doug Flutie, Gannon, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Eli Manning, Steve McNair, Tony Romo. They're all on the list of nominees. This is Eli's first year of eligibility. I think Eli Manning will get into the Hall of Fame, and I don't have a problem at all with the case for him for the Hall of Fame. I think he was more than just a two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback. He had some very good years, and if you look at their two Super Bowl runs, it wasn't just the Super Bowl. It was actually big-time playoff games on the road. They won five road playoff games with him playing at a high level as an underdog in those games to get to those

Super Bowls. So I think Eli will be in the Hall of Fame. First ballot, I don't know. I probably not. He might make it next year, class of 2026, maybe not this year. What do you say? I think Eli Manning's a Hall of Famer. He's top 10. He's 10th all-time in touchdowns career touchdown passes with 366. Yeah, he's 10th and yardage, too. Yeah, all-time. Yes.

So I think Eli Manning's a Hall-famer. But there's no particular guys on this list unless he's Count Antonio Gates as a tight end. I mean, there's no particular guys. guys that jump out as absolute. You know, I went through the list who I would pick just one from each position. You know, I would pick Eli Manning

as a quarterback. I'd pick Eddie George as a running back. I'd pick Antonio Gates as a tight end. I'd probably pick Marshall Leonda as an offensive lineman. Yep. And that's about as far as I got.

Well, Luke Keekley's a Hall of Fame player. And he's first time. eligible. He's a Hall of Fame player. I think Terrell Suggs is a Hall of Fame player, and he's a first-time eligible player. What? Here's one who I would pick that most people wouldn't agree with. I think Heinz Ward is the Hall of Famer. Oh, I thought you were going to go to Adam Vinetary, because Adam Vinetary will be the second kicker inducted into the Hall of Fame. I don't know if it'll be this go-around. This is his first year of eligibility, but he will be, I think, inducted

into the Hall of Fame. I never saw a wide receiver Play the game more physical Than hinddorf did Some people said he was dirty And he may have been But he was a force on that field As an offensive receiver

Right I mean he just played the position Like he was a middle linebacker And I just think that You know I think he's had a Hall-fame career A lot of people hate Heinzford. He was a very lightning rod kind of player when he played. The two returners on the list are Brian and Josh Cribs,

if you were wondering if there was another returner on the list. I certainly think Brian would be ahead of Josh Cribs. I will tell you this. Joe Staley's on the list for tackles for offensive linemen, first year of eligibility. I think Joe Staley's a borderline Hall of Famer, but his case is not better than Joe Jacoby's for the Hall of Fame, just as an FYI. Now, Jake is now, you know, senior committee eligible, not a modern era anymore.

All right, let's get to your prediction for the game on Sunday, and we'll talk a little C.J. Stroud, Caleb Williams, when we return, after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, guys, best time of the year is football season. It is back, NFL Sundays, college football Saturdays, football on Monday night, Thursday night, and of course, the glorious grind of fantasy football lineups. This is where your inner GM comes alive, setting the perfect fantasy roster, screaming at your TV, and making sure that those last-minute waiver moves work out for you so that you're a hero versus the guy everybody ridicules in the group chat. But listen, while you're over here making sure your fantasy team is dialed in,

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Love the guys at MyBooky. They had, I think, a survivor pool opportunity. The survivor pools have been decimated in the first two weeks. of the season. This is the actual Circa Sports Survivor Pool number through two weeks. The Survivor pool at the Circa, one of the biggest out there. For those of you, again, that don't understand survivor pools, you pick one team, no point spread. If they win, then you survive to the next week. If they lose, you're out. You can't pick the same team two times. Seventy-two-eight-two percent of the entries are gone through the first two weeks because of Cincinnati losing in week one,

Baltimore, Philly, and I'm missing one from week two. Look, a lot of people this week that survived the first two weeks will have Cincinnati on Monday night. Guarantee you, Tommy, that will be a big survivor pool pick for a lot of teams. All right, before we get to your prediction, and you want to talk about where you're going to be on Saturday night, I want to play this piece of audio for everybody. This is C.J. Stroud and Caleb Williams, after Sunday nights Houston 19 to 13 win over Chicago, they met at midfield, and C.J. Stroud had some words of advice for Caleb Williams. Good job out there, Bill. Keep going. Stop taking those weeks.

Yeah, I know. learn from those mistakes and everything that you got bro is in you already bro you're going to be a hell of a player in this league all right boy appreciate so if you haven't seen the video of the exchange between cj stroud and cj and cj rhod and caleb williams at the end of the game on sunday night then what you miss uh when you just hear the audio is caleb williams being a bit dismissive and attempting to kind of exit this conversation before Stroud pulls him back in. And that was the part of it that drove a response that was critical of Caleb Williams. My response actually was different than that.

But Tommy, what was your thought on this exchange between the two at the end of the game on Sunday night? Well, I didn't have a strong reaction. I thought, you know, given the fact that there's not really a great narrative right there out there about Caleb Williams, so far. I think it added to that. It wasn't a good look, but it wasn't a big deal to me. So my reaction, simply put, was C.J. Stroud, who the hell do you think you are? You've been in this league for like a minute. I know you were the offensive rookie of the year. You led your team to the postseason last year, but you're basically the same age as the guy you're trying to lecture. And this guy, by the way, just got his ass kicked in. His team lost. He got sacked

seven times. You know, sorry, but this is not for you to have this conversation with Caleb Williams. And I think your point, Tommy, of, you know, there's this kind of narrative out there that's a little bit negative on Caleb Williams already. I think it put Caleb into a tough spot. And there should have been a little bit more self-awareness. I don't think that C.J. Stroud did anything intentionally, but you know that the cameras and the mics are there.

You know, this probably would have been better served, you know, if he insisted on giving him some advice from his one year in the league that maybe he texted or call him with it the next day. But this is not Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady or Lamar Jackson giving this young kid advice. This is a guy his age who's been in the league for a cup of coffee so far. So I don't know. I know the reaction for many was Caleb Williams. This is another warning sign. This is another red flag that Chicago got it wrong on him. I kind of thought it was a bit presumptuous on Stroud's part.

And he should have had a little bit more self-awareness. Again, not suggesting he did it intentionally. But with cameras and mics around, the guy just got absolutely torts. and physically beaten down, I think there was a more, that there was a more appropriate time for the lecture, the mini lecture, or the advice that he gave Caleb. Well, I would, the only reason I would speak to that is, whatever Caleb Williams is going through,

it's much fresher in C.J. Stroud's mind than it would be in a 10-year veteran's mind. Okay, so text it to him on Monday or Tuesday or call him, you know? That's fine. But because, I mean, if I, after one year in radio, if the new guy showed up and we were on the air together, I wouldn't give him advice about anything. I'd say if you have questions, go to Andy Poland. He's been in this business for 20 years, you know? I mean, I just, I can't imagine deciding on my own to give somebody who's brand new. I'm pretty much brand new advice or a mini lecture when it's going to be heard around the world.

Now, let me just say, C.J. Stroud handled the follow-up pretty well. I mean, this is a headline story on ESPN right now. Stroud said, quote, I wasn't trying to little bro him or anything. He knows that I have a ton of respect for him. I had many guys coming to me after games last year, and that meant the world to me that those guys even thought about giving me advice. So I was just trying to give back to what the game is giving me, so I wish him the best. I want them to do amazing in this league, I think he will. That's a good day after response.

All right, whatever. All right, let's get to a conversation changer potentially on Monday night. Is it or not? I don't see how. I don't know. I just don't see how this offense can generate enough points to go toe-to-to-toe with the Bengals. And I just don't see how the defense can stop Joe Burrow. So combined with that, I see a 35-16 Bengals win.

Jane Daniels throws his first touchdown pass. and the new star of the team, Austin Seabird, has three field goals. That's basically the Washington offense. Can you imagine if he's 10 for 10 in his first two games? What did you pick last week? Because you got week one right. What did you pick last week? Oh, I picked the Giants to win.

You did, okay. I picked the Giants to win, yes, so I was wrong last week. But I operated under the philosophy that, you know, this team isn't very good. They need to prove to me they could win a game, and they did. prove that. They won a game. Yeah. All right. What are you doing Saturday night? Well, this is kind of a delicate situation, okay?

Because I'm going to be in your neck of wood Saturday night, Kevin. You are? I'm going to be at the Palisades Hub. To see King's Soul? Saturday night. No, the Soul Crackers, another great soul band that I follow. Okay. And you got so upset the last time I was there and didn't let you know about it. So I'm letting you know about it.

I'm so glad that you're letting me know about it. I really am. But I am not going to be here this weekend. I am going up to New York for the weekend. And so there you go. Are you coming? I'm off the hook, right? You're off the hook.

I mean, I know this, I know you, this was a big move for you because you were hoping that I had other plans, that I would not be able to, you know, connect with you, not be able to have you and Liz over for cocktails before you went to this show. Because it is near my home. And you didn't want to do that because for whatever reason, you're weird that way, whatever. I mean, we've only known each other and worked together. now for you're rest reading this total. 16 years.

16 years. We've worked together. 16 or 17 years for crying out loud. But you're off the hook because I am going to be up in the city that would be NYC for the weekend.

But have fun. It's a great neighborhood to hang out in. If you want dinner, I've got a couple of recommendations, and I can set it up for you, even though a couple of these places on Saturday night will be booked. I can hook it up for you. That's okay.

We'll probably eat and Frederik and drive down. Okay. All right. But thank you. And you have a good time in New York, buddy. Thank you. I'm actually up there for a birthday party, which I'm looking forward to. Not mine.

Good. Somebody else's. All right. Be good. I'll talk to you on Tuesday, and we will be doing the post game. show together for the only Monday night game that they have all year long. Unless they get flexed into a Monday night game, remember, Monday night football now is flexible. So who knows?

Maybe a late-season game against the Cowboys could get flexed into Monday night football. You never know. But let's see if conversation Monday night, conversation starter Monday night turns into a real conversation starter on Tuesday. I'll have my prediction on Monday's show. I'll have a full Football Friday show with Jay Gruden and Tim Murray tomorrow.

All right, Tommy, see you. All right, boss. Take care.