The Kevin Sheehan Show - Chase Young Hints

Episode Date: October 7, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the Dodgers' thrilling win over the Cardinals to start. Then plenty on the Washington Football Team including something Ron Rivera said about Chase Young yesterday which may have provided a few hints as to what the coaches are thinking about his rough start to the season. More on Taylor Heinicke as well plus a reason why Washington's awful 3rd-down defense might improve soon.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. Lots of football to discuss.

Some baseball to discuss. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already. It doesn't cost you a thing for all of you who have and have rated and reviewed us. Thank you very much for those of you who haven't. If you could spend a minute one day on Apple or Spotify or Google, wherever you're listening to this, if it offers a chance to rate the podcast or review it, if you could do that, it could be really helpful. We see that so many of you have done it and so many of you haven't yet,

and I know it seems like it's inconvenient, but honestly, it takes a minute to do. And if it doesn't take a minute and it's hard to figure out, just don't do it. It's fine. But it really does help us if you can rate us and review us and subscribe to the podcast. Tommy's here. Do you want to start with some baseball? That was an exciting ending last night with, by the way, Juan Soto watching on in a Trey Turner, Nats jersey last night at Dodgers Stadium.

What did you think of that? I thought if you're a Natch fan, it was very painful to watch. I mean, it was kind of cool, but it was just a reminder that maybe the Cy Young winner for the National League and the batting title, champion for the National League and the best player in the National League. Well, three in them together used to be teammates on your Nationals team. Now there's one left that being Juan Soto, and I remain convinced that there's no chance he's going to stay here.

No chance there'll be a deal made. The best player in baseball, you're talking about the possibility that Bryce Harper could win the MVP. Trey Turner, there were MVP chance when he, came up last night in the bottom of the third with the bases loaded. To be honest, that's really the last I saw of the game and then I was out after that. I was really rooting for Trey Turner and I was rooting for Scherzer and I want them to do well, but I guess the question based on what you just said, because I think you believe this, the Nats are kind of small time. You believe that,

don't you? Yes. Yes. Now, that's hard to reconcile with an organization that's usually in the top ten in payroll. And won a world series and was in the postseason a hell of a lot over about a six-year, seven-year period. But, I mean, let's face it. I mean, what we've seen, who we've seen disappear is arguably when he left, maybe the best player in baseball and Bryce Harper. Trey Turner, who, like I said, was the batting title winner this year. One of the best players in baseball. And now we're about to see Juan Soto, who is now, I think, the best player in baseball,

possibly leave as well. We see Max Scherzer, possibly the best pitcher in the National League, not named Grom, wind up leaving as well. So in that sense, I guess, you know, You know, the final outcome of this is that fans have to live with the fact they have to bank more than ever on Mike Rizzo and their ability to be able to replenish the roster with young talent that takes the place of the greatest players in the game who wind up leaving. Yeah. You know, just one observation, and I mentioned this, I think on the radio show this morning or yesterday, the last two nights, and I have not watched the entirety of these games. By the way, did you think Max Scherzer should be pulled when he got pulled in the fifth inning?

Well, only because this is a one-game playoff. You know, this is like, I mean, all hands on deck to win a game like this. Every out counts, and he was given away outs, you know, arguably, by putting people on base with four walks at that point. 94 pitch counts, too. And I had no problem. I mean, Joe Kelly's a really good relief pitcher. I had no problem with that. Now, Adam Kilgore brought up in his column in the post, something I've talked about for years is because of this style of play now,

We are denied the great pitching matchups of a Scher versus a Wainwright deep into a game. Right. You know, you get it for a half a game. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. But I've been saying for years that the starting pitchers are the stars of the game. And we diminish those stars with the reliance on the bullpen.

But that's the way the game's played now. It is the way the game's played. I mean, to me, there's no, you know, bigger moment for, you know, the starting pitcher being pulled from a game where I think it backfired in a major way in a major spot. But game seven of the World Series that this small town, this small time team was in against the Astros when Granky was pulled when he had been brilliant throughout. Yes. I still. Yes.

The National breathes a sigh of relief when they saw Granky leave in the game. Yeah. So, look, it paid off for Dave Roberts. You know, they brought in, you know, multiple relievers, and it paid off in the moment. And then Kenley Jansen looked about as good as he's looked in a while. You know, he wasn't their best. He really wasn't at his best, I should say, in the postseason last. year, but he came in with Kelly. Kelly got two outs and Scherzer basically pitched four

and a third in a critical game. To your point, this would have been, come on, Max, we're courses into the ninth and then we'll get our closer in there. No, he's out in the fifth having pitched 94 pitches, walk three, struck out four, only gave up one earned run. So what I loved about the last two nights, I mean, I love, I love playoff baseball and I'm upset that I didn't stay up. I just, I tried because last night, obviously, was very dramatic. It's the kind of playoff drama that we love. Bottom of the ninth, one-one game, do-or-die game, loser goes home, winner moves on, and you get a home run to end it with two outs. There were two outs at that point. I think there were two outs real quickly in the bottom of the night. Anyway,

the thing that was so noticeable to me, the last two nights, is just what a great. What a great. baseball crowd Boston is at Fenway and how good the Dodger fans are when they're there and ready to go. Both of those environments, the last two nights, were so electric. It was really, you know, it's really what makes these wild card games great if you get them played in in these kinds of environments. I mean, the Dodgers, 106 winners playing at home against the Cardinals, but then you get the rivalry game from the night before between the Red Sox and the Yankees. I hope we get this for the next month. But God, those environments, the last two nights, incredible. Fenway the other night was lit, as the kids say. You know, I've covered probably about 25 or 30 playoff games at Fenway

Park. And I'm sitting there, you know, watching the game with my wife, and I say, you know, I really miss being there. I mean, it's really an unbelievable place in a game like this, you know, and I've been so unfortunate. I mean, I was there when one of those walk-off home. I was at Yankee Stadium when Aaron Boone hit the walk-off home run in 2003. But I was there for the brawl where Pedro threw Dodd Zimmer down on the ground. You know, I was there when they came back to win game four after being down three-nothing in 2004. So, yeah, Fenway, it's fabulous. Now, and the Dodgers last night, that atmosphere was great. to. But, I mean, we're not talking about two different things, I'm assuming here. Let me just say, because I think it needs to be said, the wild card game against Milwaukee. It was the best of that place. It was the best. It was better than the World Series games. Yeah, that was lit. Now, one of the reasons it was better than the World Series games, it was a, you know, bottom of the eighth rally from 3-1 down with the season on the line. There was no

There was no do or die game that year at Nat's Park, right? The Dodger series was the fifth game in L.A., and I think they were up to one. So I think that's what it was. I'm forgetting now that particular series. I think I've told you this before. I had the chance to go, actually, that's not true. Washington, I'm looking at it right now. Washington did play a game against the Dodgers in that league division.

series and they were down two to one in the series playing at home. And Scherzer pitched and they won the game six to one and then they won that unbelievable Howie Kendrick Grand Slam, you know, ten inning game against the Dodgers, which still to me, the vision of Clayton Kershaw after he had gotten a huge out as a reliever to end an inning and then came back in the following inning and got lit up. Do you remember he got lit up? I want to say it was the eighth, and it was Rendon and Soto back to back, like on three pitches.

Boom, boom, it's over. And just that shot of Kershaw sitting solo in that dugout was one of the, it's a lasting image in my head. That was such a dramatic game. But I think I've told you this before. I went to a Yankees playoff game in the mid-90s against the Mariners at Yankee's stadium and it was incredible. It was so...

That would have been 95, I think. It was at 95? It was the mid-90s. I was in New York with... Actually, on business and a friend of mine's like, I got an extra ticket. Do you want to go? And I'm like, absolutely. And I, that was, um, that was an incredible atmosphere to be in Yankee Stadium for

a playoff game. I've been in Fenway many times, but not for a playoff game. But it was great the last two nights, both of those environments. Even the L.A. fan, which, which, is so laid back, those people were ready to go last night. Yes. Yeah, it was great to see. Absolutely. And I'm happy. I mean, I'm also happy for Stan Kasten. I never did Dodgers win. You know, I mean, look, I really like Stan.

I was going through some old emails the other night, and I came across an email from someone. I mentioned this to somebody. Remember the Washington Times, they closed their sports section in 2009. Right. In December 2009, they shut it down,

and we were all added, all the writers, including me, were out of writing jobs at the time. And the first person I heard from to see if I was okay with Stan Kasten. He was a nice guy.

He really liked you. I remember that very much. And, you know, he's that kind of guy. I mean, like, whether it's for sales purposes or PR purposes, he doesn't miss a trick. But I know that he always liked you. He's a Hall of Fame baseball executive. He'll be in Hall of Fame someday. Wow.

I mean, for what Atlanta did when he was there, winning, you know, go to 14 straight postseason games. and then turning around and then helping to start the team in Washington and then going to L.A. And then winning the World Series last year, the COVID World Series, but winning the World Series last year. He had something like 32, 33, like or 35 Division League World Series championships on his resume. Well, he also was a very successful NBA executive, right? When he was in Atlanta, wasn't he also the Hawks, the president of the Hawks?

He was also the president of the hockey team, too, I think. The thrashers when they were there. So he's going in Hall of Fame as a contributor someday. He, you know, when he took over that job with the Nationals, whatever year that was, you would know what year that was. 2006. It was the first year that I did the show with Rigo. Rigo and I and Gary Braun did a show together for two and a half years, something like that. And Kasten, that was it.

It was 2006. And I think he just loved Rigo for some reason. But I also think he was a big-time promoter. I think one of his real talents is he can really sell, and he is a promoter. And the Nats needed promoting. You know, they were in the second year. And, you know, he was talking about, I mean, every time he came on, he had the menu from the stadium updated.

I mean, he was talking about brots and, you know, just it was, it was, you could, he was Joe Thysman. You asked him one question and you could go, literally, you could just doze off. And five minutes later, he was still talking. But he, every single time, and usually we didn't even have to ask, usually somebody from the Nats would say, hey, stands of, available, he really likes coming on with you guys. Well, he enjoyed Rigo was

really what it was about. But anyway. And one last thing about Stance. How old is he? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. When he left Washington in 2010, I believe,

he had signed a five-year contract to run the team when they took over in 2006. and, you know, stayed for the whole thing. But that winter, he went, remember to Wyoming a trip I used to take for a bunch of sports riders and baseball. He went with you. Yeah, he went with us to Wildmania. I remember him asking. I remember him asking me in the bus one time.

Are you following the divorce stuff between the McCourt's, you know, Frank McCourt? You know, Frank McCourt and his wife, they both owned the Dodgers at the time, but there was a bitter divorce going on, and the team could be, you know, the ownership of the team could be in play. I remember him asking me that, and when he asked me that, I immediately knew he would wind up owner the Dodgers. I think he wound up buying him like two years later. Well, I knew once he asked about that, that that's what that was his plan.

Well, then he was part of the whole, Magic Johnson's the one that, bought the team with a group, right? Well, no, and Stan. And Stan. I mean, Magic's not the big money, man. I know, but Magic was the big face of that purchase back then. Yes, he was. Yes, absolutely was.

So, just, first of all, not everybody knows what Wyoming is. So tell everybody real quickly what Wyoming is. And then why the hell would Stan Gaston, the Nats team president, go on your Wyoming, and did he have a good time? There you go. Three questions ago. Okay.

Well, Wyoming was Tracy Ringlesby, the baseball writer at the time in Colorado. It was a big Wyoming, you know, sports fan. And like at one point, one of his friends, a fellow sports writer, was going through a divorce. So him and a couple of other writers, you know, organized a weekend out in Wyoming. to go to a Wyoming football game. It was just four of them then. And then the next year they decided to do it again and add a few more people. So eventually I wound up getting invited, and when I went, we're talking 30 to 35 people,

and we rented a bus for the whole weekend to cart us around. Right. And it would be not just sports writers, but baseball executives, Art Howl, the former manager. One time, Clint Hurdle, who wound up who was the manager of the Rockies and later to Pirates, he went.

There were scouts and the front office executives who went. So it was a mixture. And I don't know why Stan went. He had just left the job in Washington. He wouldn't have gone if he was still working for the nationals.

But he had a good time. I don't remember him drinking with us late at night. He wasn't out on the town with us late at night. Art Hal went? Yeah. Well, I didn't really, you know, I remember these stories, you know, vaguely, and I remember more often than not the stories when you got back from it,

because it took you a few days to recover, typically. Oh, yeah. But that's, but that trip ended, how many years ago? Well, I stopped going about six years ago. I think COVID has put an end to it for now. I don't know if they're interested in reviving it or not. But it had a good run of about 15 years, I think. I just looked it up.

Stan Kasten's actually younger than I would have thought. He is 69 years old. 69 years old. I would have thought that he was older. God, it seems like he's just been around forever. By the way, back to the game last night for a moment. You know, Chris Taylor's walk-off, you know, home run to win a do-or-die postseason game in Major League Baseball. It's the fifth time, all time that that's happened.

I remember the second time it happened, and that was Chris Shambliss's walk-off against the Kansas City Royals in the 1976 AL championship series at Yankee Stadium. the famous Shambliss couldn't even make it around the entire base path. Yeah. Because the fans stormed the field. But the first one was Bill Mazurowski's famous Game 7, Pittsburgh Pirates, Home Run against the Yankees in 1960. It was against the Yankees, right? I think I'm right about that. Yeah, it was.

Yeah. So do you, you asked me the other day if I remembered where I was for the Bucky Dent game, Do you remember where you were for the Bill Maserosky home run? No, I was six years old. Oh, you were older than that. No, I was six when that happened. So I don't recall that. My first recollection of watching baseball regularly on TV was 1962,

when the mess came to town. I'm sure I did, because I was a huge Mickey Mantle fan. And I remember in 61, we were. went to a Yankees game once in the old, you know, the old stadium. But, no, I don't have any recollection of Bill Masorowski, which has to be the most dramatic home run in the history of baseball. And it was a super high-scoring game, too. Yeah.

Yeah. It has to be the most dramatic home run. I think the final score of that game, I'm going to look it up, was 12 to 11 or 11 to 10 or something like that. So it was a high-scoring. I think all the games, the Pirates won, were high-scoring. And all the games, the Yankees won were low-scoring in that series. And Ralph Terry gave up the home run to Bill Maserowski.

Came back in 62 and I think won three games in the 62 series against the Giants. 10-9 was the final score of the 7th and deciding game in 1960. October 13th, 1960. The World Series ended. a lot earlier back then. And the games were played, you know, during the day. I mean, they were played. I mean, that's just kind of wild to me.

Just the evolution of sports. And I mean, the World Series deciding games were, you know, the first pitch was like 1 o'clock on a Thursday afternoon or whatever, you know, and that wasn't a big deal. Anyway, okay. So we've got some Washington football team stuff to do. discuss. And I want to continue the conversation actually about Taylor Heineke here in a moment, which I will. And I want to talk to Tommy about something that we briefly talked about the other day and then I talked a little bit more in detail yesterday about. But I did want to

mention for those of you that, you know, had not seen it and are getting all of your Washington football team news from this podcast. Logan Thomas went to the injured reserve for three weeks with the hamstring thing. So that's disappointing. They've got to some issues at tight end here for the next three weeks. And that's a big miss, I think, for the offense in general. I think Logan Thomas really was developing into a really good player. And even if the numbers didn't reflect it, to have him and Terry McLorn and Gibson, you know, and McKissick on the field at the same time, I think everybody was benefiting from the other's presence. So they've got that, you know, issue at tight end right now. They ended up signing Jay Sternberger off Seattle's

practice squad. But it'll be, you know, John Bates and Ricky Seals Jones. And then this kid, Samus Reyes, the basketball player, will more likely than not be active this weekend. So I talked about this morning because on Wednesdays, you get the first injury report of the week for the team and the team you're playing. And Washington's injury report was really long. Like for the first time this year. They've been so through the first three weeks of the season, they really were without any kind of serious injuries. And then they lost McTire to the knee injury for the year. They lost Sheriff, you know, they lost Bostic for the year. And then Sheriff is out two to three weeks. And now Logan Thomas is on the injured reserve. And then the names that were on the list yesterday

of players that didn't practice, Sims, Samuel, Holcomb, Gibson, Diami Brown. Then a lot of players were limited like John Allen and Jaezer Everett and Matt Ionitis and J.D. McKissick and Benjamin St. Juice again and James Smith Williams. And I was talking to my producer Brendan before the show this morning and he just

made the comment. He said, you know, probably be a good time to have your head athletic trainer around when you have this many injuries. And sure enough, I'm like, yeah, but did you see the news yesterday?

Bubba Tire showed up to Redskin Park or to Washington Football Team Park. Bubba Tire, Tommy, who first became a part of this franchise with George Allen 50 years ago. He was a 25-year head trainer for this organization and really a legend in this organization. One of those legends that fans know the name and know a little bit about it, but the players and the people in that organization, Bubba was for real. Bubba was the guy. Bubba went from one coaching staff to another over a long period of time before finally retiring in 2009. And with the issues with Ryan Vermillion, which we still know nothing about, unless you're going to give me some update, nothing about.

The Bubba Tire just showed up at the park saying, hey, I'm here to help if anybody needs any help. And Ron Rivera said he's there as a volunteer. Now, I think Grant Paulson reported that Washington actually reached out to him. That's not really what Rivera said in his presser yesterday. He said, well, for the most part, Bubba's just really here volunteering. He came in to help out and that's it. He's got some free time and wanted to come in and just help us all. He's volunteering.

But back to the more serious thing, there's a staff there. You know, Ryan Vermillion wasn't the only person looking at injuries, but, you know, this is potentially a competitive disadvantage, not to have your head trainer, especially when you've got, you know, all of a sudden, a bunch of players on your injury list and several on injured reserve, the short-term injured reserve. You know, if it's not a competitive disadvantage,

then they might as well just get rid of the job. and send their players to urgent care when they got something wrong with them. Right. Why not? Go to CVS. Right. I mean, if it's not, if it's not that important of a gang, then just get rid of them and just say, oh, go down the road.

There's an urgent care right down the road. I had somebody. Minute clinic. Exactly. I had somebody tell me the other day, like, I think everybody's been trying to get information or Vermillion. I don't think anybody's given anything out on Vermillion. Who the hell knows why the DEA was there?

why the feds rated Redskin Park or Washington Football Team Park and what's going on there. But in one of the calls that I made, somebody just said, that guy probably talks to Rivera as much as anybody in the organization on a daily basis. That this is a relationship that, you know, we're not all familiar with because it's not like Ryan Vermillion's name pops up a lot. But for a football team, the head coach and the head, by the way, he was his first hire, essentially, for all intents and purposes, one of his first few hires. That is a relationship that is incredibly involves an unbelievable amount of communication on a daily

basis. You know, coach, you're not going to have this guy for practice. You're not going to have this guy for practice. By the way, this guy, I don't think he's going to be available to you Sunday. This guy, we may have to put an injured reserve. This guy, you know, he's hobbling around like it's something serious, but it really isn't. You know, you can push him a little bit. It's all that.

every day. Now, wouldn't you say, as a leap of face here, just conjecture, based on the fact that he was his longtime trainer in Carolina, and like you said, he's one of the first guys who he thought of to bring the Washington, that he probably trusts, of all the people in that organization, Ron Rivera probably trusts this guy more than any other person. Well, considering that he's been with him forever, and he was the first guy he reached out to to bring him here, I think that that's got to be true. I mean, first of all, it's a medical person, you know, so you, if you don't, if somebody's with you that long and you don't trust him, well, that's on you. I mean, why would you be with a doctor you didn't trust? Why would you be with a trainer who's looking out for the best interest of everybody medically if you don't trust?

not to mention Rivera, you know, the one thing he did say about Vermillion is that he was very important to him during his battle with cancer a year ago. Yes. You know, he's essentially right there with him, you know. Yeah. Anyway, something to keep an eye on, as he's the injury list. We don't know. We don't know anything. I don't.

Here's what we know. No, I don't. Here's what I do know. DEA Raids Washington football team headquarters is not the kind of headline you want I know we talked about this the other day

yes it's not and at the same time it's funny yesterday I was with several friends and one guy just said you know I saw it on my phone and I'm just like yeah just another day with the Washington football team like it's gotten to the point where when you get these kinds of headlines

nothing's jarring anymore nothing's surprising you're almost surprised if you go a couple of weeks without something like that happening. But again, we don't really know what happened. We don't. There are a couple of things that Ron Rivera said yesterday that I want to get to. But I also, one involves Chase Young and one involves Dustin Hopkins. But I also want to talk a little bit more about Taylor Heineke with Tommy.

And we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show presented by My Bookie. Winning season is rolling at My Bookie, and this week, entries are now open. For the winner-take-all super contest, what's the super contest? Well, it only costs you $10 to enter. You could win $10,000. You make picks weeks five through eight beginning this weekend. You make five picks against the spread, get them right.

You earn points, you rise up in the standings, and potentially you could take home the $10,000. grand prize. If you needed another reason to head to my bookie.ag, how about a $20,000 blackjack tournament? Actually, that's really appealing to me, Tommy. I love blackjack. I love craps and blackjack. And I've never, ever participated in a blackjack tournament. Never.

And I consider myself to be a decent blackjack player because, and really all that means is I understand and follow simple, basic blackjack strategy. So I don't even know if that means I'm a good player. But anyway, it's an absolute free tournament to enter. MyBooky's got an online casino. They've got an online horsebook. They've got an online sportsbook, of course. Go to MyBooky at mybooky.orgie.orgie right now.

Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And when you make your first deposit at MyBooky, you'll receive double your first deposit. That's promo code Kevin D.C. you can double your funds, double your winnings, bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. All right, before I get to the Taylor Heineke stuff, real quickly. So Rivera was asked yesterday on the signing of the kicker Chris Blewett. That's his name, Chris Blewett, kicked a pit. You know, why did you sign Chris Blewett?

And he said, well, to have another kicker. That was it. Boy, his answers about Dustin Hopkins and Chris Blewitt have been pretty short. Then people followed... I'm telling you. You think there was a DEA investigation into the kicking game. Into the kicking situation. So then he was asked a little bit later on, and he got a little bit more expansive in his answer. He was asked why it's important for him to maintain confidence in Dustin Hopkins.

And he said, quote, because if I get off on him, it could get worse. That's just the way it has to be. It's one of those things that's not like you're going to go out there and pluck a kicker that's going to come in and is going to kick over 80% or something. You want a little more consistency, especially with extra points, and he's working on it. And again, it's just one of those things, and hopefully he'll correct it, and we'll go from there. And then he was asked, did any of his experience in dealing with Graham Ganoe at Carolina, you know, sort of generate this trust that he has in Hopkins? And he said, you know, it's crazy, because if you look at what Graham did throughout the entire Super Bowl,

year. He was very good, very consistent, did a lot of things. Then we head into the next season, and he gets sporadic and had a rough year. But we stayed with Graham, and then in 2017, he goes out and sets the record, which I think was consecutive field goals in a row. And then he's still, you know, kicking his ass off with the Giants. He's not getting rid of Hopkins. There's nobody that they bring in to workout that is better in a workout than Hopkins. I've talked about that a lot and people make fun of me for saying they love the way the ball explodes off his foot, but they do. It gets up in the air really quickly. He's got a really strong leg.

He is incredible as a workout guy for a special teams coach or a head coach. And he has the fear of missing out. He has the fear of if he goes to somebody else, that guy not being as good as Hopkins, and then Hopkins gets on the role that they expect him to get on at some point. he is expecting Hopkins to turn into, you know, Gano. Like he's going to get on a role and it's going to be, because he's got the talent, he's got the gift of being a big time kicker. By the way, he's a great kickoff guy too. They're not getting rid of him.

He would have to be so bad and cost them dearly. They could be 0 and 4 because of him, but they won both of those games. Maybe it would be different if had they lost both of them. Go ahead. Do you understand that logic? Do you agree with it? I do. I actually do. So do I. So do I. Because I think it's such a weird position, and I think it's so psychological, mental when you've got the talent, which he does. And it may be just one or two big kicks that he hits, and all of a sudden he's off to the races. Now, the one thing I would say about him, though, Tommy, I'm not a kicking expert.

But he does, the ball does explode off his foot. It gets up high. He seems to use essentially a driver for every. kick when sometimes maybe just, you know, a wedge would do. And doing it that way, sometimes it just seems like the ball gets influenced by the power because he always, when he misses, he doesn't miss by a lot. And by the way, the kicks that he misses actually look beautiful in flight. You know, they're not like, it's not like it comes off his foot sideways and hooks hard left

or fades hard right, hard right. It's usually, you know, up in the air, beautiful kick. Oh, no, it just went right or it just went left. I think I have. There's no, oh, Cundiff on the play-by-play with this guy. There's no Cundiff. But he missed two P.A.Ts indoors, even though the roof was open. Yeah.

So there's, he said something else yesterday. He was asked just about Chase Young. And here was what he said. Let me back up. First of all, he was asked about the defensive scheme, and he said, I like what we're doing. I do. I think there's a lot of things that we do. I think there are some things that we can be better at.

There are some things that we most certainly can go ahead and continue to refine and use. It's one of those things that's just kind of what we're struggling with right now. We're going to keep working. We're two and two, and the thing that we're disappointed is we feel we could be better than that. And then the follow-up question was about Chase Young. and he said, well, when I look at some of the things that he's done and look at how people react to him and how people have basically slowed him down, there's an impact there still. I think that's the one thing we just have to be smart about, closed quote. Okay, just did you hear something in that quote as I read it?

There are two things I heard. Want me to read it to you again? Yes. Quote on Shea Shung. Well, when I look at some of the things that he's done and I look at how people react to him and how people have basically slowed him down, there's an impact there still. I think that's the one thing that we just have to be smart about, closed quote. What did you hear there? And I could have played the sound, but I didn't have it today.

Usually my producer sends me all the sound. I mean, it seems kind of simple. I must be missing this. I mean, he's saying that even Chase Young, not playing up to the level we expected, is still effective for us on defense. Yes. So why did he say it's one of the things we have to be smart about? I don't know. You must have a theory.

So two things. Number one, he admits that he has been slowed down. Okay. You know, that's a bit of an admission. Secondly, let me just be really clear about how people are reacting to him and how people are reacting to him. people were basically slowing him down. Not everybody's chipping and doubling him all the time. Secondly, on that point, who cares?

The great players chip and doubled all the time and still get big time results. I might want to point out that this is what Del Rio said a couple weeks ago. Yes. Well, they are definitely publicly doing their best to cover for zero sacks and zero game-changing plays in nearly the first. quarter of the season from the player that was expected to contend for the defensive player of the year.

And they should, by the way. They should continue to do whatever it takes to build his confidence. I liked some of the things they did on Sunday with him. Some of the things they did with him on Sunday were exactly what Cooley suggested. Get him a matchup where he can win immediately. Get him some confidence. And I thought he played okay Sunday. I thought he was much better than he was against Buffalo.

But there's an admission. Oh, yeah. There's an admission here that he's basically been slowed down. There's an excuse made for him, but there's an admission that people have basically slowed him down. Well, again, just to... This is what Del Rio said a couple weeks ago. People were asked about, you know, how they're slowing him down and, you know, how they're chipping and all that. And Del Rio said that's part of it, but it was part of it for Kalimak, Julius Pepper, Vaughn Miller, any of the other guys I've had. Right. That's part of playing a defensive end in this league. Yep. Yeah.

That's the thing. It's a very sympathetic to Chase Young's issues. Yeah. So, now, but the second part of it is when he says, but there's still an impact there. I think that's the one thing that we just have to be smart about, closed quote. Well, what do you mean smart about it? Like, are you considering playing here? him less.

You know, it's almost like, you know, they've slowed it, they've slowed him down. They're planning for him. But, you know, we have to realize he's still having some impact. So let's not take him out of the game a lot more. Let's not bench him. Bench him would be obviously jarring. And I would not suggest that that's it. But I wonder, Tommy, he's one of the guys that when Ron Rivera has said over and over again about, you know,

not playing the system and not doing their job and not being disciplined. He's one of those people. If you all don't get that at this point, you're really, really missing it. And I'm not suggesting that anybody out there listening doesn't understand that because I think most of you do at this point. So I bet you there have been some conversations about, you know, if he's going to continue to get run out of the scheme and not play it, you know, we're going to continue to give up third downs.

We're going to continue to not perform well defensively. And at some point, maybe we need to get somebody else in there that is going to play the scheme that we want a scheme, or at least for more snaps. Now, his snap count was down last week, but he still had more snaps than anybody else defensively. But when he said, I think that's the one thing we've got to be smart about. I think he's saying, look, he's not our worst player, even though he's not playing well. And by the way, that's true. He's had some impactful plays. I thought he was, the thing about Chase, too, that when you watch him, he's an effort guy.

Like, I don't ever see personally, from my observation, a guy that isn't giving high-energy effort. Like, it's not from a lack of trying. But what do you think? But maybe he's saying that we need to lower out expectations for this guy, that maybe he's not as good as advertised. I think they think he's as good as advertised in the same way. they think Dustin Hopkins is as good without the advertisement. But I think that... I think you can read that into what his comments were.

We need to be smart about this. Smart about our expectations? No, smart about lowering his snap count. That's what I'm saying. Because he says, you know, people... He said, when I look at some of the things that he's done and look at how people react to him and how people have basically slowed him down,

there's an impact there still. I think that's the one thing we still have to be smart about, meaning he's still having an impact even though teams are planning for him. And by the way, when teams plan for him and game plan for him, that makes it easier for some of the other players. And, you know, the interior players in particular, I think have played for the most part pretty good football this year, Duran Payne, John Allen, and Matt Ionitis. And so I think that's what he's talking about. So if there's any conversation here internally that we've had about maybe lowering a snap count, maybe trying some different things with different players, no, we have to be smart about this. First of all, he's still having an impact even though he's not playing well.

And him being out there in teams game planning for him helps the rest of the defense. That's what I think he's saying. I think it's possible. Also, he may be saying that we need to. to maybe lower our expectations for this guy. That he's good, and he's worth having out there. But this wrecking crew that everyone expected, he might not be that guy.

I think he can be that guy. I think that's his potential. We've already seen it. We saw it last year. And I'm not just talking about the bad, you know, against the bad quarterbacks. We saw it in the run game sometimes. We saw it, you know, even with bad quarterbacks,

the from one side of the field to the other to knock, you know, the ball out of Joe Burroughs hands. We, it'd be really difficult for me to feel like he doesn't all the sudden after a year have the potential to be one of the very best at his position in the NFL. Now, if there are. People get exposed after their rookie years. Yeah. Happens all the time. They have another stationary quarterback that they get to face on Sunday. So let's see what happens. By the way, the other part of the Ron Rivera line about how people react to him

and some of the things that have been done, some of the things that have been done also against Washington is that teams have gone much more to quick passing games. You know, Herbert, and there was a lot of quick passing game from Atlanta, and that's to nullify the impact of not just a Chase Young. but remember, they're all first-round picks across their front four, with the exception of Matt Ionitis. You know, you got four of them, Allen, pain, sweat, and young. And so teams are looking at that as that's their strength.

And you know what? Through four weeks as bad as the defense has been, I would still say that by far and away, the strength of the defense is the front four. The problem is it's not the strength and hasn't performed at the level that we thought it would. it needs to start doing it quickly because if it doesn't it's going to be a long year because you can't play Atlanta every week.

No, you can't. You can't expect Taylor Heineke to save your bacon every Sunday. You sure? All right, so that's what I want to talk about right now. So I put out this poll yesterday, which I'm sure you voted in. And we sort of started this conversation together on Tuesday, which made me think about it a little bit. And I put out the poll yesterday, which was just give me your current opinion on Taylor Heineke right now. And there were three answers.

You're all in, not just for now, but the future. You're still not sure. Or no, he's not the answer. And I did it because I had this gut feeling, Tommy, that this was a conversation that we're having as a family. base and it's a, you know, it's a conversation that is dominating a lot of the conversation about the team. I mean, there's there's the defense, but then there's Taylor Heineke. And it's an exciting conversation and it's, you know, there's a debate about what he is, but I don't think, and I didn't think that it was a polarizing conversation. My gut from just talking to lots of different

people, whether it's on radio or seeing social media or talking to friends, is that for the most part, a very small percentage of people have decided that it's not worth seeing any more of Taylor Heineke. They can already see that he's not the guy. And I did that poll because I just so many people, and I've made, look, I did this with Kirk Cousins. You know you lived it with me with Kirk Cousins for a long period of time. I was 100% bought in from the jump.

I don't know why. I think part of it is that Mike, you know, is. essentially was so, so bullish on him and nobody knows quarterbacks like Shanahan. But I just saw something in him that said, this guy's a top half of the league NFL starter if he gets a chance and if they give him time. And I'm going to be right about this. I'm going to be right about this. And I think there are a lot of people out there with Taylor Heineke that absolutely are all bought in after four and a half total games. And they so desperately want to be right. about it. And in sort of positioning themselves as being right, they want to feel like they were

super contrarian and all alone, and that everybody else was a so-called hater of Taylor Heineke. And I just don't think that applies to this conversation. I don't think there's that many people that are like, no, you can't give them a chance. I think the Kirk Cousins thing was very polarizing still is to this day, you know, in Minnesota. Oh, absolutely. You know, the Colt, look, the Colt McCoy thing for, to a certain extent, there were a lot of people like you that were totally bought in and then a lot of people like me, and I'm not just listening to ones that I got right and got wrong. I was also all in on Josh Doxon, okay? I wanted them to draft them and I predicted all pro seasons, many of them

ahead. But the point is here that if you are a Taylor Heineke backer and you're totally convinced, that's fine. But you don't have to make it about you against the world because that's not a true narrative. That's fake. And so the poll reflected essentially 29% of the people said they're all in now, all in now and the future. He's the guy. They've seen enough. He's the guy. 55.7% said still not sure, which is me, meaning you're not a believer yet, but you're not a non-believer. You want to see more, which has been my position from the jump. The last one was, no, not the answer. And that's 15.5%. So basically, that's where I voted. By the way, that's where I voted. Okay, of course you did. Not the answer. Eighty-four and a half percent

of the people being either all in, now and the future being sold on him, or, of he's not, or, of him or essentially not sure, but I want to see more, is not a polarizing answer. So I don't know why the conversation is turned into, I have this feeling that the Taylor Heineckee backers want to turn this conversation into the four of us against the millions of you. And that's not true. That's my point. What do you think?

Well, I think another issue is they just want to be right so bad. Right, like I did about Kirk. You know, about Taylor Heineke. Yeah. Yeah. And look, you know, Dan Oloffsky, NFL analyst. Yeah. He tweeted this yesterday.

The NFL world doesn't truly appreciate how good Terry McLaren is. I will use this, and I agree with him about that. I will use this act to make sure he gets talked about problems. He is a top-tier wide receiver and a number one unquestionably. And then he said this, if he played with an elite quarterback, many would see him differently slash properly. Really? Well, that's set off. Oh.

A backlash. You know, what do you mean, not elite? You know? And then everyone posted Taylor's statistics saying this is, you know, this is an elite quarterback. what are you talking about. But this guy, this guy makes my point. You can see he's not an elite quarterback. You can see that already?

I can see it. Really? And you can, look, you can win without an elite quarterback, but the other parts of your team have to be working. You can't rely on the elite quarterback to win week after, on the non-a-lead quarterback to win week after week. you have to have that great defense that you expected. You have to have more weapons around you.

He's not an elite quarterback, okay, obviously. No. Okay, he's not an elite quarterback. However, what is true is that he's playing at a very high level right now. And you can look at, you know, traditional stats, you can look at advanced stats, you can, you know, you can look at pro football focus, you can look at football outsiders. Football outsiders on the DVOA number. He's right now the number 10 quarterback in the NFL. And by the way, that's a stat that takes into a lot,

you know, game circumstance, down, distance, situation. Like they're not giving equal weight to a third and 17 checkdown throw for 14 yards, that they are a third and 12 throw for 14 yards. Taylor Heineke's 10th right now in the NFL. And the guys that are in front of them, I mean, this is a pretty impressive list. I'm sorry, and DVOA, he's eighth right now, excuse me. me, eighth. You know, Stafford, Mahomes, Prescott, Murray, Wilson, Brady, cousins, all ahead of them. You know, it's not Brissette and Wentz and, you know, Zach Wilson that somehow made their way

inexplicably into this top eight. You know, the guys that are behind them on this list are Bridgewater and Rogers and Carr and Herbert. So he had a bad game against Buffalo. That's it. Now, you can say, well, that's the one really good defensive team he's played. True. And they're going to play, at least statistically, a really good defensive team this week, even though this team gave up a 400-yard passing day last week to Daniel Jones. It's funny about the Giants. We're watching Washington's next opponent through the giant games because the Giants played the Falcons and then the Falcons played Washington. The Giants played the Saints last week. And now the Saints are playing Washington. And so, you know, he hasn't done it against the 85 bears consistently over and over again, but he doesn't have to face the 85 bears every week. He's got a good defensive team this Sunday, then a very bad defensive team right now in the Chiefs the week after. I'd be very surprised. Like I said before the Falcons game, I thought he would have a good game.

And he did. Now, and by the way, in two weeks, I think he'll have a good game against the Chiefs. He's not elite. He's not going to be an elite quarterback. This is not Kurt Warner. But there are things that he does at a very high level that for me as a football fan intrigue me. He is by far in a way the most mobile quarterback they have.

And he's super mobile compared to mobile quarterbacks in the NFL. He also really is, and you can see it, he processes very quickly, he's decisive. And he definitely has that baller. you know, thing to him. He's fearless. He's fearless. Absolutely.

Ben tweeted this out yesterday. Let me find it because it was, damn it, where is it? Okay, here it is. This from NextGen stats. Terry McLorn was targeted seven times on Sunday against Atlanta on deep passes of 20 or more air yards. That's the most

deep targets by any player in a game since 2016 when NextGen actually began. McLaurin turned four of those into 94 yards and two touchdowns. So, I mean, you got a guy that is fearless. He just threw the ball to one receiver more times in a game with 20 or more air yards than ever. Since NextGen started to keep track of this. And I think we've seen that. He pushes the ball down the field.

Now, one of those throws was an insane. high-risk play. And there is a, oh my God, I'm forgetting the stat service. But Brendan, my producer and radio, pointed out that he's number three in the league right now with the most interceptable balls thrown. If you can believe that, there's a stat that registers how many balls you've thrown that should have been intercepted. He's thrown 14 in, what is it now, three and a half games.

Ben Rathesberger leads the league with 21. But, so that does speak to the fact that he's been picked three times. That speaks to some good fortune so far, which I think if you're being objective, even if you're a big Taylor Heineke fan, you can admit some good fortune here. Like, I mean, the Buffalo game could have easily been a four-pick game, and Sunday's game could have been a two-to-three-pick game. But they weren't, and they won't. both games because he made many more good plays. There were many more balls that he threw that

weren't interceptable that turned out to be big plays. And he made big plays with his legs as a runner. So here's the question for you, okay? Moving away from sort of the, it's not a polarizing conversation, which is my belief. So if you're a big Taylor-Hineke fan, enjoy it. Be on it. You don't have to then, you know, push this narrative that you're by yourself because you're not by yourself. So here's the question I would ask you. It's a typical our format hypothetical. What if Ryan Fitzpatrick were ready and healthy and could go right now? Or let me push it off since we're already late this week. On Monday, let's say they win or lose a close game to New Orleans and Taylor plays really well again, has a really good game. And, you know, it's reported that Ryan Fitzpatrick is

healthy and he's practicing again in Ashburn. Do you think that they would give the ball back to Ryan Fitzpatrick for the next game if he was completely healthy and ready to go? No. I don't. Okay. Do you think they should? I don't think they should.

I think if Ron is Riverboat Ron, he's going to keep playing the hot hand in this case. Luke warm hand, but still. in terms of play, a hot hand. I agree with you. I agree with you. I think what would happen is you would get this. You know, Ryan's looking good. He's healthy, but we're going to ease him back into this.

Taylor's going to start this week against the Chiefs. Taylor had another good games playing well. We're in rhythm offensively right now, but Ryan's getting close. He's physically cleared, and we're just going to ease him back into it. And he would take that for a week or two. and that if Taylor kept playing well, then at some point he'd have to say Taylor Heinekees are starting quarterback

for the rest of the season. At some point, but he wouldn't have to say it right out of the game. You let it play out. You've got to let it play out. Yeah. Now, I'm not hearing much other than best case would be after the buy week for Fitzpatrick. And so that would be November 14th

against the Buccaneers at home, which means Taylor Heineke gets a minimum of the next four weeks. By the way, I agree with you. I think right now what I've learned this year about Heineke is that at the very least, he's a backup quarterback in this league. He's one of the best 64 at doing this. And by the way, because of his personality and mentality of not, you know, of being totally fearless and always.

sort of ready to go and being a superb athlete, he's perfect to be a backup. I'm saying least the worst case is he's a backup in this league. I think he will, I think if Washington signed or drafted a quarterback really high or signed a big time quarterback or traded for Aaron Rogers next year, I still think there's a chance that they'd really, really want Taylor Heineckee to be a backup. And the other thing I've learned is he's such a much better athlete than Fitzpatrick or Kyle Allen, that I just don't know, and you know how I felt about Ryan Fitzpatrick before. I was excited to see what he could do and see if we got the last two years of Ryan Fitzpatrick. But at this point, I just, I don't personally think that Ryan Fitzpatrick would be any better.

You know what? What about this? Okay. Let's go nuts here for a second, because I think this is a possible scenario as well. So let's say, you know, Fitzpatrick gets healthy. He keeps playing Heineke. And then Heineke sinks down to a level that a lot of people expected and needs to be replaced. What are the odds he replaced him with Kyle Allen?

I think that's dwindling to, like, really low numbers. Okay. I know they like him a lot. You know, we both know that they really like Kyle Allen, but I think that. think now what they've probably realized, I don't know if it's they. From my standpoint, he's just a much better athlete. He's just a, he's much more capable of making big plays that really influence the outcome of a game.

Now, if he goes on a run of really making too many bad plays, you know, and losing games, anything's in play, but I don't see that happening. I see him having some bad games, but usually as a part of maybe the team having some bad games. He benefits from having some really good – look, the truth is they've got some good skill position players to go with him. And as I pointed out yesterday, I think Scott Turner is doing a good job. With the addition of Curtis Samuel, now to the team, I mean, he had three first down catches last week. you'll see more of them probably in play after one week. So yeah, he does have weapons.

Yeah, and he's got an offensive coordinator at least last. Yeah. But he doesn't have Logan Thomas. Not right now. That could impact things. He has an offensive coordinator that certainly, I think, did a really good job against the Falcons defense. So we'll see what happens.

I mean, you know, look, the bottom line, I said this a few weeks ago, we don't have to make up our minds right now. We're going to get them for the next few weeks. And we're going to get them against some good teams and some games in which they're going to have to figure out a way to stay in it. You know, right now the goal with this schedule, the way it looks right now, is just stay in it until you get that run of division games at the end of the year. You know, don't play your way out of it. So somehow you've got to split with the Saints and Chiefs. You've got to split with – you've got to stay right around 500 or a game below somewhere in that general area before you get Cowboys Eagles, Cowboys Eagles.

Cowboys, Eagles, Giants to finish up the season. At least then you've got a chance. And by the way, that would be much better for us if they're really in the hunt, you know, a game above or a game below or right at 500. All right, I know you have to go. I'm going to come back with a couple of more things to finish up the show. But I do real quickly, once your prediction on Sunday. Saints 35, Washington 24. All right. Saints 35 to 24. You know, it's a one-point sprint. still. Just sitting there right now at minus one, minus one and a half.

All right. Thanks. Back after these words from a few of our sponsors. This final segment of the show presented by Window Nation, go to Window Nation. com or call them at 86690 Nation. If you've been thinking about new windows because you want to save big on energy bills this coming winter or you want to improve the look of your home, I'd ask that you give Windonation a shot. Windonation has never disappointed. anybody that I know that you use them, including yours truly. They're going to take good care of you. You mention my name.

You'll get a free estimate, so there's no risk on this thing, and you can take advantage of the current deal that they've got going on right now, which is buy-to get-to-free with no limit, no money down, no payments, and no interest for 24 months. So you'll get the windows immediately, and you won't pay a nickel on those windows until the year 20-23. and when you begin paying, you're not going to have any interest that's accrued over the two-year period. Window Nation is the fifth largest window retailing company in the United States.

They've got a 97% customer satisfaction rating, and I wouldn't have endorsed Windonation for this long, coming up on 12 years, actually, if I didn't have complete trust in them. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com. It will work out for you. If you're looking for new windows, you've thought about it. new windows, call Window Nation first. 86690 Nation or Window Nation.com. There's a good Thursday night game tonight between the Seahawks and the Rams. You know, Seattle coming off that big

win last weekend over San Francisco on the road, Jimmy Garoppolo getting hurt in that game. Russell Wilson only throwing for 149 yards, but two touchdowns, no picks. In fact, Russell Wilson on the year, nine touchdowns, zero. interceptions in four games. They beat Indy in the opener. They lost to Tennessee in overtime. They blew a big lead and lost to Tennessee and overtime at home. Then they lost to Minnesota on the road, and they came back and they beat the 49ers the

other day on the last week in Santa Clara. So they're two and two with three road games. And tonight they get the L.A. Rams in a Thursday night game at home. Do you know Russell Wilson has won nine straight? Thursday night games as the starting quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks. There's an issue here in tonight's game, though. The Rams are hungry after really getting their asses kicked by the Cardinals last week and a bit of a stunner to lose 3720 and really never to have a chance.

I mean, the Rams were coming off that win over the Buccaneers as the perceived, if not odds favorite to advance to the Super Bowl out of the NFC with a three and over. record. And they faced the Cardinals last week at home another 3-0 team, and the Cardinals killed them. I mean, that game was really never close. They led at halftime by double digits. They led by as many as three touchdowns in the second half. Kyler Murray was phenomenal in the game. The Rams were shell-shocked in that game. So I think they bounced back with a really good effort tonight, even though it's short turnaround and it's on the road. Meantime, the Seahawks, They got a big win, but it was a physical win, and it took its toll.

I mean, there are several players on Seattle's injury report. They're coming back home. And the truth is, Seattle last year really struggled in their matchups against the Rams. You know, the playoff game, they lost 30 to 20 in Seattle. Russell Wilson did not have a good game, that particular game. And the other matchups during the year last year, they lost to the Rams in November. 23 to 16 in L.A. That was a game in which Russell Wilson had two interceptions, no touchdowns in the game. Also lost a fumble. He accounted for three turnovers against that ram defense in their first meeting in the regular season.

And then they beat the Rams in a big game late in the season, 20 to 9, a defensive battle again, and then lost a couple of weeks later in the playoff game. Now, the Rams defense isn't the same so far this year. But this one, if I were playing it, I would probably lean Seattle because there's a lot of public action on the Rams to bounce back. But I'm staying off this game. I think this is a spot where Seattle's banged up off an emotional win on the road, and the Rams are hungry to get back after it after being embarrassed last Sunday. So I'm steering clear of the game tonight. but still a good matchup.

And that playoff game was intense in January of last year in that wild card round when the Rams went into Seattle with Jared Goff and won that game. I think it was by 10. They won that game on the road. The last thing that I wanted to talk about today is the Washington defense. And specifically, there was a story written by Bill Barnwell

earlier this morning on ESPN.com. And I think, you know, he writes really long stories with lots of data and lots of numbers and lots of advanced stats, et cetera. But this one really makes sense to me. It was part of a much larger story about what's real and what isn't real through week four in the NFL. And one of the categories was Washington's defense isn't falling apart. Is that real or not real?

And he writes not real, and he explains the reason why. So I'm going to paraphrase all of it because it's very long. I'm not going to read it verbatim, but I'm going to give you the highlights of it, basically. First of all, we know what the problem's been, specifically from a number standpoint. They can't get off the field on third down. They are the 32nd ranked third down defense in the NFL, allowing teams to convert 50s, 59.7% of the time on third down. So that is horrific, obviously, for a third down number.

But what Bill Barnwell points out is that it's not sustainable. And the reason is they have a very good first down defense. Their first down defense is ranked seventh in the league. And he writes that historically a first down defense and a third down defense and a third slash fourth down defense are much closer in ranking because they're very connected. If you're very successful on first down, which Washington has been, and I didn't know that they were the seventh ranked first down defense in the league. But I knew that they had been, at least in recent games, pretty decent on first down.

You know, what sticks out to me is that the first two plays of the Buffalo game went for like minus three yards. and then it was a third and 13 that Buffalo converted. They had some big first down stops against the Falcons on Sunday for, you know, tackles for loss minus yardage. So the connection, obviously, is if you're in second and 13 or second and 12, and you've got a really good first down defense, that ultimately the other team's going to end up with third and long, and you're going to be more successful in third and long.

Washington has not been successful. in third and long. They haven't really been successful in any third down situation this year. But Barnwell writes that this isn't sustainable, that as long as their first down defense remains to be an effective one, that their third down defense will come around. Now, immediately, I thought, well, what if it is that their first down defense doesn't hold up? And it is not nearly as good as we think. And ultimately, that moves back towards the middle of the pack. But his point was it's so highly ranked that even if it regresses a little bit, that it's still the disparity between what it might be two or three weeks from now, even if it isn't top 10, but it's say it's top half of the league, that the third and fourth down defense should follow and should move off of that 32nd ranking mark. he points to New Orleans actually Washington's upcoming opponent as an historical example of something that was similar and he writes that last year the Saints defense through four games ranked 10th on first and second down and they were dead last on third fourth down that was after the first month of the season and then it changed the Saints had the

fourth best defense in the NFL on first and second down and had ultimately, you know, moving forward, the second best on third and fourth down. And they ended up being a very, very highly ranked defense last year. So he said that eventually Washington, if they continue to play really well on first down, by the way, their second down defense is ranked 19th in the league. So there's a pretty big disparity between first and second. You know, the first again makes a lot of sense. He didn't go back and give you all of the numbers on first down other than to tell you that it's ranked seventh based on expected points added, the EPA statistic, okay, which is how much is that area of your team, you know, adding points to the team, expected points added based on that particular number. So Washington's first down defense ranks seventh, second down defense ranks 19, third down, rank 7th, third down, 30 seconds. So the net of it is there's too much of a disparity based on how it usually plays out.

Both will sort of inch together. So he believes Washington's defense on third down in particular will not be this bad for this long. By the way, I tend to agree with him. It doesn't make any sense intuitively, even without the numbers, that if your first down defense is really good, that you would really give up just third and 10, third and eight, third and 13, third and 15 over and over and over again. They've done that a lot this year, but it doesn't make sense that that would be sustainable. So we'll see. As part of his research on all of this, he did mention something that I did not know, and I'll share with you perhaps you did know, that William Jackson right now has committed a league high four pass interference penalties for 46 yards.

I mean, he's been called for a bunch of them. I knew it. I didn't realize it was a league high. I think he has struggled, certainly with the PIs, but I mentioned, I think, earlier this week, the difference between him and, say, Fuller, he appears to be much closer. Doc Walker used to always say,

look, the guy's getting beat, but at least he's there or other guys aren't there. Jackson appears to be in the vicinity of some of these completions or penalties against them. That's a good start. Tomorrow morning on the radio show, tune in. Ron Rivera will be my guest at 8 a.m. He is every Friday. We record that interview actually this afternoon on Thursday afternoons. Also, one of the reasons that Tommy had to take off, he had somewhere to go, and I had to record an interview, which is why he didn't join me for this final segment. and that interview was with Bobby Abear.

Bobby A. Bear, the longtime New Orleans, St. Quarterback, and also has been hosting afternoon radio drive time in New Orleans for years. He will be a guest. You'll hear that interview on the radio show tomorrow morning as well. And Bobby is a very entertaining guest and loves his memories of playing at RFK Stadium. But he had a lot to say about Taylor Heineke. He also had a lot to say about James Winston and suggested that Washington's catching New Orleans at the right time. Much more on tomorrow's show leading into a football weekend.

Possibility of having Cooley on tomorrow. Obviously a big preview of the Washington Saints game and the rest of the NFL weekend, including hopefully a better smell test for you tomorrow. All right. Thanks. Thanks back tomorrow.