The Kevin Sheehan Show - Christian McCaffrey...Hmm?

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Kevin and Thom opened with a story that discussed a Christian McCaffrey to the Commanders trade. The boys talked a bunch of football in the open and that got to Florida's win last night over Houston in the National Championship game. They finished up with a conversation about Alex Ovechkin's record goal and his legacy that will follow.  Go to https://zbiotics.com/SHEEHAN and use SHEEHAN at checkout for 15% off any first time orders of ZBiotics probiotics.Try hims.com/SHEEHAN for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy is with me today. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation.

If you need new Windows, 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com, mention my name. They'll come out and give you a free-in-home estimate. Tommy, several people have sent me a link to this breaking news story from TWSN. headline 49ers trade Christian McCaffrey to the Washington commanders. It's written by Marissa Myers. Marissa Myers says that the 49ers are in the midst of a retooling process. They've cut players like Javon Hargrave and Leonard Floyd, and they've traded Debo Samuel,

for the 49ers to continue to clear cap space while also preparing to get younger on the roster. The next trade they could make, includes Christian McCaffrey. Second round pick for Christian McCaffrey says some website, TWSN.com. It stands for the Right Way Sports Network LLC. Yeah, I don't think this is real.

I bet she's pretty young. Could you bring yourself to type something like that and put it out there? Well, she does after the headline, in very small print, it's written prediction. Even if you say it's a prediction. And it's obvious what you're doing. No, no, no, I couldn't do that. Now, if I could, if I could make, I make, we make predictions all the time.

We deal in the world of reckless speculation and predictions. They're predictions based on games. used to make me do that, that, what was the one we used to do? You heard it here first? You heard it here first? Yeah, you heard it here first? We've done it recently. Yeah.

Right. And that's the only time I've ever dabbled in something like that. I would never. If you're asking if I would put something together like this where it makes it look real, at least, you know, for about a split second, no. If you're asking me, would I ever have, have a conversation like the one we're going to have on Christian McCaffrey being traded to Washington, if I ever said to you, what if like San Francisco wanted to really sort of cut costs, retool,

start to rebuild and Christian McCaffrey was available? Of course, we deal with the hypothetical all the time. It's the lifeblood of what we do. Conversations are different than putting things. There's a line in Biloxi Blues, the Neil Simon play. When you put things down on paper, that changes everything. It becomes much more real. Obviously, we're not talking about paper. We're talking about computer screens and phone screens. But there's a difference between talking about it on a podcast and posting it on social media.

Okay, can we just talk about, though, Christian McCaffrey to Washington? since we're not writing it down. Absolutely, buddy. Let's get reckless. Let's get really reckless here. What is interesting is... Let's get Dan Snyder reckless here. Because if that happens,

it really is starting to smell like Dan Snyder 2000 all over again. No, it isn't, because Dan Snyder 2000 didn't have Jaden Daniels a quarterback. Right. But the... No, he had a playoff winning quarterback. who he basically had benched. Yeah, with Jeff George. That was one of the first moves.

But, I mean, isn't there a point where, you know, the shopping, the shopping trip just gets a little bit unseemly or seems like a little bit wrong? Like, there's no right way. I mean, I don't buy into this. This is not the right way to build a team. Like, the right way is through the draft and all that. Although Adam Peters,

believe that. When he first got hired, then he said that a couple of times. We're going to do things the right way through the draft. Yeah. And they did it the right way. In the first pick in the first draft here in Washington, they got the quarterback. Okay. What is that?

Is that the great eraser for you now? Yeah. 100%. It changes everything. It changes everything. I know it does. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that if there's something like this happened, it would.

week of a little bit of the old days? More so than Marshawn, Latimore, Debo, Samuel, Laramie Tunsell? Maybe, maybe because... One step too many. One step too far. It would also be the biggest star of the four, like the most recognizable star of the four. Although if I were ranking, you know, sort of star power of the three players that they've traded for since the trade deadline, eight picks for three players, I'd say that probably most NFL fans know Debo Samuel, followed by Marshaun Lattimore, followed by an offensive tackle, who NFL fans know, but casual fans may not. Christian McCaffrey, everybody knows. He's been a star in the game.

But let me just tell you why I actually do want to talk about this, because it also just brings the running back position into the forefront because I think they're looking for a running back. I think they should be. I think they'll be looking for it in the draft. I don't think they're going to trade for Christian McCaffrey, in part because I would doubt that Christian McCaffrey would be available. Reason being the 49ers have still,

while they've been, you know, moving some pieces, they are still hoping that they've got this window of opportunity where their superstar players, you know, Trent Williams, George Kittle, Christian McCaffrey, you know, Brandon Ayuk, who would be coming back off a serious injury, Fred Warner, Nick Bosa. They, all the, they're, they're super, superstar players, are still with the team. You know, Debo's gone, Hargrave's gone, but they still have a core of true, you know, A-plus players when they're healthy. And I think they're hoping that once they get Brock Purdy signed, because I'm assuming they're going to sign Brock Purdy, that they'll be able to play a season next year healthy. They were not healthy this year. You know, it is interesting, and I've mentioned

this before, you know, like if I go to My Bookie right now, my bookie will have the 49ers as like the third favorite in the NFC. They might have Washington there now, but let me just look at NFC championship odds. The Eagles are the favorite at my bookie plus 310. Detroit is plus 420. San Francisco is plus 730, followed by Washington at plus 820.

The 49ers are still for odds makers, a legitimate threat entering 2025 to win the NFC championship, and that's because they still have a core of great players. So I doubt that Christian McCaffrey would be made available. I just don't see that. He's got a couple of years left on his contract. He's coming off injuries. I also wonder whether or not teams would be willing to give up a second round pick for McCaffrey,

who's 29 going to turn 30, I think, when this is a running back loaded draft, and you could take that second rounder and take a running back that has huge upside and is on a rookie contract and is 22 years old or whatever he would be. I mean, look, if you want to win the Super Bowl next year, you've added some pieces.

You've probably thought about swinging big with Miles Garrett with maybe even still Trey Hendrickson. You traded for Latimore, you traded for Tonsal, you know, brought Debo in. I consider the Debo deal completely different than the Latimore and Tunsel deal because it just wasn't that much compensation. But if you got a healthy Christian McCaffrey in 2025 to go with the other things, wow. I mean, that'd be an upgrade, that's for sure. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know if whoever see a healthy Christian McAfri.

Afri for season. Yeah, he was healthy there for that first part of the 49er run after being traded from the Panthers. And now, you know, he's missed games. Let's see how many games he's missed recently. He played in four games last year, played in 16 to the 17 in 2020. He played in 11 games in 2022, played in all of the games after the trade from Carolina when they went to the Super Bowl.

Oh, I'm sorry. 2022, the combination of 6 in Carolina, 11 in San Francisco. So he was healthy for that season, and he was healthy, and he wasn't healthy the two years, the last two years in Carolina. Yeah, I mean, man, he's missed a lot of games, no doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Difference maker, though.

I mean, I think this team has two targets, whether it's still through, trade or the draft or whatever. I think an edge rusher and a running back. Then after that, I think, you know, they pretty much need a lot of everything else. But to help Jayden, they still need to help Jane Daniels with a running back who can be a weapon for him. And they still need a pass rusher. Yeah. Adam Peters said, and I, I'm just going to give you the paraphrasing of it because I don't have the sound bite with me right now. But he was on the Fred Smoot thing

on the Commander's YouTube channel. And Smoot was asking him about draft philosophy and he said, it's best player available. You always want to be in position where you're not drafting for need. That's when you make the biggest mistakes. And that's what Bobby Betherd always said. Once you start drafting for need,

that's when you make your biggest mistakes. And the truth is, other than quarterback, you could make the case that drafting any other position, if that player's the best player on the board, you have a need for. I mean, you have a need for everything on defense, edge rusher, you know, interior player, even though, you know, you'll look at what they added,

and Kinlaw, Kinlaw is probably going to play both spots. You still have Durand, you have John. you have Johnny Newton from last year. Linebacker, edge, corner, safety. If the best player available is any position defensively, you take that player. Yeah, they need it all. You know, if the best player on offense is a wide receiver, even if it's a left, at this point, you wouldn't want it to be a quarterback or a left tackle.

And it's probably not going to be a quarterback in this draft, so you don't have anything to worry about. and you'd prefer it not to be a left tackle, a pure left tackle, because you just traded for Tunsel, and you're going to probably sign them to a contract extension. And so you've got your left tackle answer. But, you know, we've seen crazier things happen,

but, you know, interior linemen, you probably wouldn't want to draft a center if that was your best player available, but running back for sure, guard, wide receiver, tight end for sure, You know, I don't know what they think of Ben's in it. But the running back thing, I would be very, very surprised if Washington doesn't draft a running back. And I've said this before, but I think if the best player on the board is a running back at 29 and they can't trade back and it's a guy like Hampton from North Carolina,

I think that they would pick a running back in the first round. I think they would. I definitely think a second round pick at 61 overall would be a possibility and definitely on day three. You know, they have five picks right now. They've got first round or second rounder, fourth, sixth, and a seventh. So anyway. All right.

Christian McCaffrey is not getting traded to Washington. We talk about some person of little note fantasy. I don't know what you just said. Are you okay? I'm glad we did that. Okay. I'm glad we did that. Wouldn't it be funny if it happened?

Some Yahoo on social media posted something, and we just devoted our sophisticated resources to it. Well, you do know part of the reason we did it. Part of the reason is, little inside baseball here, boys and girls, is we haven't done a lot of football team talk here in the last couple of weeks. The tournament kind of took a lot of attention. Ovechkin's taking a lot of attention. The Maryland situation took a lot of attention.

And I promise all of it. of you that, well, I promise a couple of you. There are a couple of you that often have suggestions about what we don't talk about enough. I think the best course of action after the last week or so is I know what the last week and a half we haven't talked enough about. Hence, thank you for the Christian McCaffrey thing, Marissa Myers, from the Rightway Sports Network LLC, that made its way to me through social media and through a couple of you reaching out saying, have you seen this? Is it real? No, it's not real. If it is real, Marissa's going to become a star. No, the best course of action on this podcast, or if you do anything like what we do in this town, is to always air on the side of what, Tommy? Football.

Football. Yep. Washington football, specifically. But even NFL football. Yeah. Even just NFL football. That is true. Yeah.

That is true. There's going to be a lot. at the end of the first round. There's going to be a lot of opportunity. Hopefully there's an opportunity to trade back and pick up more selections. But, you know, I think a lot of teams might have that opportunity or desire to trade back.

All right. Yeah, running back, maybe. Christian McCaffrey, no. But that was a real fake story, a real fake one. We'll get to Ovechkin. I want to get Tommy's thoughts. I want to hear what it was like to be there on Friday night for 893 and 894. We'll talk NCAA championship final as well, Florida, winning it over Houston.

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finisteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. National Championship is in the balance. 13 seconds left. Florida leads it by two. Uzzan. Gozan. Give it up. Crier. Six seconds, five seconds, sharp. He walked, he can't touch it, he can't, one second. Terrible ending for Houston last night to what was a pretty good game and a very good final four overall. This segment of the show is brought you by Window Nation.

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So you watched the game last night, right? Yes, I did. So what did you think? It was a rough game. I mean, college basketball is pretty much, seems to be more physical than the NBA. Really a physical game. And what was remarkable is, what, there were maybe three fouls called in the first half, and then the second half, the referees couldn't put the whistle away.

Yeah, that was a big part of the story, no doubt. Four fouls called in the first half, two. 26 in the second half. I've never heard of anything like that. Yeah. I mean, that, that, that seems, there was a mistake there one way or the other somewhere. But, look, it was a good defensive game. Florida came up with the defense that they didn't lead, I guess, until like one minute left in the game. and they had the great defensive play. I thought it was a tough defensive battle, and defense seems to win in these tournament games.

Yeah, I mean, I'll start with the referees because I thought that what was still a really good game and highly entertaining, from my perspective, I don't know if it was for everybody, because I like rugged defensive games, and I thought both teams were exceptional on defense. Houston's been that throughout the year. They were the number one defensive team per Ken Palm in the country. And it's why I really liked them going into this final four.

I just thought they were the older, more grown-up, more manly, tough, rugged team than Duke. And I thought that they would beat Florida or Auburn in the national championship. game last night. Now, I can't, you can't ignore a game in which the referees come out and they say, it's the championship game, we're going to let you guys play tonight. And four fouls. Four fouls are called in the first half, just four. And nobody even sniffs the bonus in the first half.

And then in the second half, 26 fouls are called, along with. two texts. The disparity of officiating styles between the first half and the second half, I honestly think was wrong. You don't do that as a referee, you know, group. Oh, I think it was wrong. I don't think anyone would argue with you that that's not right. You can't do that.

You can't change the style the way you're calling the game like that. I've never seen a despair. like that. You know, sometimes you'll get officials that will, you know, right from the jump, say, you know, I'm not, we're not putting up with any shit tonight, all right? So they'll blow a lot of whistles in the first half and then let you play in the second half a little bit more. There's no example that I have that reflects what happened last night ever. And the big problem that I have with it is twofold. One is sort of selfish and personal, and that is I have. I have. had Houston plus the one and a half. And I wanted them to win the game because I picked them to win it and I had them in the smell test. I did hit on the under. So it was a good smell test tournament, 14, 10, and 2 overall.

That's great. And the game came in under. But what it did is, is you set this stage for we're going to let you play. And the game never even came close to getting out of hand. It wasn't like, oh, my God. God, we got to tighten this thing up. It's gotten chippy. We let it go way too much in the first half.

It was tough. Yeah. But it didn't seem like you were one play away from a fight. Yeah. There was no indication. No one was about on the verge of getting hurt. No fights were about to happen. And I knew early in the first, second half,

they whistled Florida for five fouls quickly before Houston had any. And whenever you see that, the referees, are taking an absolute just, they're getting crushed by Todd Golden and company on the sideline. They teed up the bench. And at that point, they decided to even things up. And I thought that might be coming.

But at one point, they called Houston for three fouls in nine seconds. You can't. And Houston was in the one-in-one with 14 minutes. and seven seconds to go. Florida was in the one-in-one with just over 12 minutes to go. Florida got to the double bonus with just, you know, around 10 minutes to go. I just, and what it did is the whole rhythm of the game changed. And Houston got the worst of it. And maybe it was because they didn't adjust, okay? But they had

much more foul trouble than Florida. They were whistled for 19-fell. fouls. Florida was whistled for 11 fouls. Houston got called for 16 fouls in the second half, and their big guys got into foul trouble and fouled out. Tugler fouled out, and they had to play small for a long period of time, and they weren't as good defensively with the smaller lineup. So I thought that the change in officiating was first of all just out of line. It made no sense whatsoever. It totally changed the rhythm and the feel of the game. And I thought Houston ended up on the short end of that officiating change stick.

With that said, part of that could be because Florida adjusted better and Houston didn't. As far as the game goes beyond that, you saw two just tremendous defensive basketball teams. I mean, Florida's really good defensively, too. But what Houston did, I mean, it was smothering in the first half. Florida was totally rattled. Clayton Jr. had zero points. They clearly had a plan. You're not going for 30 or 34 as he did in the Elite 8 and the Final 4 game on Saturday night.

And the other guys are going to have to beat you. And Richard stepped up and hit some big shots for them to keep it. close. There was a blatant missed goaltending call at the end of the first half on a bucket that would have put Houston up by eight with just under a minute to go. You can't miss that. You just cannot miss that call. It was so obvious. And instead of being up with a healthy lead at halftime, Florida cut it to three. It was a big five-point swing. The second half, the fouls, the foul trouble. The shooting wasn't good at all, but I attribute that to defense. Tommy, I said about the Duke game yesterday, the Duke Houston game, that I thought Houston had more to do with them winning the game

than Duke did with Duke losing the game. Duke contributed. They missed a free throw. They turned it over, but I thought Houston just wore them out over 40 minutes. And last night, you know, Houston didn't get a shot on their final four possessions. And so, you know, there's a lot of blame going towards Houston, you know, blowing the 12-point lead, then not getting a shot on their final four possessions. I would probably say Florida's defense gets more credit. Florida, at the end, out Houston, Houston, with their defense. It was sensational.

Now, at the very end of the game, I personally think with 19.7 seconds down to, Houston's best way of scoring throughout the season and the tournament has been to get the ball up on the rim, go chase it, and score on a second chance. They decided to basically hold it for the last shot and set up an opportunity to shoot a three to win the game. Now, maybe it was because of the foul trouble they were in. As many fouls that were called, Florida didn't have one player with four fouls, and they only had one player with three fouls. So they weren't in foul trouble. Houston was in big foul trouble, so maybe Kelvin Sampson didn't think overtime favored him. And he was going for the win there.

They did not execute offensively well. Florida's defense had something to do with it, but I thought Golden did a better job in half-court offense than Samson did. But that final play was a well-structured play where they had Cryer coming off the stagger screen. Florida jumped it and then he reversed the ball to sharp coming off a, you know, a scissors or a down screen. And he catches it with four and a half seconds to go, five seconds to go. And Clayton is closing out from a long way away. And for whatever reason, he had a quick trigger, which he did all night, got up in the air and Clayton closed out well. And And he had to let the ball sit there.

It would have been a turnover instead of a true basketball field play, which is, I'm catching this ball off that down screen. I'm going to turn. They're going to be closing out. It's one pump fake. Clayton would have flown by him. He actually could have drawn a foul on Clayton. But at the very least, Clayton flies by him.

He takes a dribble, sets his feet, and fires an open three to win the game. Or maybe he decides to. to drive it to the rim. Who knows? But really a terrible play by Sharp. I mean, that's not on Kelvin Samson. They called a good play. Now, I think some of the other possessions were not very organized. There was a lot of, you know, a lot of one-on-one, a lot of, you know, give me one ball screen, a lot of ISO. Sharp turned it over, a bad turnover on the possession before. But it was just a terrible ending to what was really a tough, rugged, fun game to watch with the exception of the referees really impacting the game in the second half.

You know, I looked at some of the stats on this, and Houston only had five assists. Yeah. Which shows you the kind of defense that Florida was probably playing. in that game. That the ball, you know, did not really move around that much. Florida didn't shoot very good. Six of 24 on three-point play. That's about what Houston shot, I think, six for 25. But what's interesting is, and I borrow this from a friend of mine, Mark Wicker, who's a columnist now with Substack. Since 1997, since Ken Baum began analyzing college basketball in 1997. Only one national champion, Baylor in 2001, has not ranked in the top 20 in

defensive efficiency. Yep. Yeah. Florida was six this year. Yeah, Florida was top 10, yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's the nature of the game right now. What we saw, I think, even with the flaws of the game, that's ultimately what we saw. The two good defensive teams going at each other. You know, I think that Baylor team was special, but it, you know, going into this tournament, you know, Gary's always said, you got to score. You can't win six in a row without scoring, being able to score. And offensive efficiency rating, you can look at those numbers too. And it's like if you don't finish in the top 20, you don't win the national championship. Or there's like one national champion or two in the last 30 years or whatever. You know, when you're high in both offensive and defensive efficiency rating, you're a really good team. But the teams that I was suspect, like I was suspect of Alabama because they don't guard. And they got, you know, they got ousted by Duke easily.

Alabama was 28th in Ken Palm defensive efficiency. BYU just did not guard anybody. They could score with the best of them. But they were 82nd in defensive efficiency. They gave up 113 points to Alabama. And so you ended up, the final four teams, Duke was five in defensive efficiency, Houston was one, Florida was six, and Auburn was nine. They were all top ten defensive efficiency teams.

Now, offensively, Duke was one, Florida was two, Auburn was three, and Houston was 12. But to your assist point, I thought it was a lot of Florida, for sure. I also thought that there was just a bit too much ISO and kind of two-man and not enough ball movement. But it wasn't easy for ball movement. You know, Duke played very well defensively on Saturday night. They were exceptional defensively. Florida was great. Florida turned it over too much in the first half, but a lot of that was forced.

And look, Clayton Jr. I think is going to be a special player at the next level. I don't get the late first round for him. I see Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, light in his quick release. I think he's more athletic than Steph. But for some reason, you know, every mock draft has him basically from 24 to, you know, the end of the first round. To me, this guy, by the time we get there, should be a top five to top ten pick. Now, they handled them last night in the first half, but it's easier to do that in college basketball than it is the NBA.

Yeah, it is. But I don't know, I thought it was... Houston, though, you know? Houston's been to seven final fourth. And the last... No national championships. And last night was their third title game, and, you know, they lost to NC State in Valvano. They lost to Georgetown, and they lost last night.

last night. Yeah. Yeah. What a tough thing for a program to deal with. Yeah. Houston's one of those programs. Like, you know, they haven't really, I think they've had a moment or two here, you know, over the years in football.

But they've always, not always, but they've had some really good basketball teams and basketball runs. But anyway, the tournament's over. There you go. neither one of us picked the winner. I thought Florida really was good, but I had Maryland beating them. That did not work down. And I had Duke winning at all.

Yep. And I said before the tournament started, I thought Duke Houston and Florida were separated from everybody else. I didn't think Auburn was in that class, although they certainly were close to it and had an eight-point lead against Florida at halftime in the semifinal. But I think we saw, without question, of the three best teams. And look, the tournament flavor typically is for upsets and Cinderella's, but the basketball

over the last two weekends was really entertaining and really good, even if it wasn't in the first two rounds of the tournament, you know, without big upsets, without, you know, other than Derek Queens buzzer-beater, we didn't really see, you know, an incredible ending to a game. Yeah. And now, as far as the upsets and the Cinderella stories, I keep reading that because of the portal and because these mid-major stars can move to Blue Blood programs, you know, after they stand out, it's hard for the mid-majors to keep teams together to be a Cinderella anymore.

It's true. it's definitely true. I mean, you know, at the same time, and I think I mentioned this to you last week, the portal also now allows, you know, players who entered in Power 4 situations with four or five stars next to their name, usually four stars, five star guys usually are pretty legit. And it allows them to go down to, you know, a lower level team and play at a high level. and then move back up.

But look, Drake was a really good team this year. You know, they certainly had, you know, I was going to say BYU, but BYU was in the big 12. But Drake had, you know, the upset over Missouri and SEC team in the first round. They were very well coached by Ben McCollum, who's going to Iowa. You know, and looking at the tournament as a whole, the biggest, there weren't a lot of like major disappointments, St. Johns would have been the biggest. They were two-seed, Petino, they won the Big East, they won the Big East tournament, and there was a feeling that St. Johns was going to make a massive run, and they got beat by, you know, Calipari in Arkansas in the second round. That would be the only

big disappointment I would look at. I'm sure Duke fans would think not winning at all was a disappointment. Yeah. Other than that, you know, it just really from the Sweet 16 on we saw some high-level basketball and the final four was exceptional Yeah I agree and it will be

if you can have something like this a memorable forgettable tournament for turf fans for reasons to have nothing to do with basketball on the court Yeah well you know it was a great season

it was a memorable season. They're starting all over. I mean, I've already seen, you know, the all too early top 25s. Maryland's not going to be anywhere near any of that stuff. They've got to totally remake their team, but they can, and they've already gotten some really good commitments in the portal. Yes, they have. By the way, I wonder, and it's not out yet, I wonder if this tournament was really watched. I wonder what the ratings are going to be. I wonder if it was a highly consumed tournament. Because, you know, you had Connecticut, you know, last year against Purdue. So that was a big matchup.

They played San Diego State the year before. I don't know if you saw this from yesterday. Hold on. Where is it? The women's final between Yukon and South Carolina on Sunday had 8.5 million viewers. Now, the men's final, I would think, would have maybe 14, 15 million viewers, we'll see. If Duke had been in it, it would have been more.

But last year's women's final between Iowa and South Carolina, 18.9 million? Yeah. You know who moves the needle, and it was proven this year all over again. You know, while pre-Catlin Clark, the numbers that they got this year in women's basketball, are very good. Oh, yeah, compared to pre, yes. If you compare them to pre-Claid Caitlin Clark.

Yeah. Yes. But, no, there's one person that moves that needle. Honestly, for those of you that are still hanging on, yeah, it's kind of her, but it's just overall, the big stars in the sport, the Angel Reese's, and the coaches, and just everybody recognizing the games better, you're out of your effing mind.

Last year's final did 18.9 million viewers. It beat the men's final. Last year's final four in the women's game beat the men's final four games. They did 10.4 million more viewers than Page Becker's in Yukon. Page Becker is a big star in the sport. Yukon, a huge brand in the sport. There's been one person responsible for this, meteoric, maybe short term, we'll see, rise in interest in women's basketball.

Her name's Caitlin Clark. Every single game she played set records in the WNBA, both live and on television. And the difference between last year's final and this year's final is so outrageously, you know, massive that there's nobody that could say, oh, well, you know, let's not forget. South Carolina was undefeated and it's Don Staley. They were part of it last year too. No. It was her. And the $8.5 million the other night or the other day,

just to your point, Tommy, is twice what it was pre-Katlin Clark. So she's lifted the game, but she hasn't lifted it to the level of when she's in it. But she left it lifted. Yes. Yes, she's, no, but more people are watching now because of her, I think, even though she's not playing. Right. No doubt. She introduced people to the game, and they watched it.

And most of them said, yeah, the only reason I watched was Caitlin Clark, like 10.4 million. But at least about four million who didn't watch pre-Katelyn Clark said, eh, it's not bad. Yeah. I'll watch it. All right. Anything else on college basketball? That's it. The tournament's over. That's it. That's it for the season. I used to get kind of depressed when the tournament ended. Because college basketball was a many-month thing, and it was like it's over, and the tournament's over.

And I love the NBA playoffs. I know a lot of you don't, but I do. But I used to be, you know, when they did one shining moment at the end, it was like, God, man. It's like, you know, the day after Christmas. I don't feel that way anymore. I just don't love college basketball like I used to. I love Maryland, and I, you know, every Maryland game was, you know, do or die for me. But the sport overall, you know, I don't, it's over.

Great. Master's Week. Can't wait for that this week. The NBA playoffs, especially in the football. the West are going to be amazing. I can't believe the Nuggets fired Mike Malone today. I know. Crazy.

I think he's a really good coach. All right, let's talk some of... They should make Yokic to player... They should make Yokish a player coach. Like they did with Russell? Yeah, like I used to do. The Buster was a player coach, and Dave the Buster was a player coach in Detroit for a while.

It used to be a relatively, not an untypical thing. I don't think anyone's done it. since Russell. I can't think of anybody that's done it in any sport. Well, Pete Rose was, I think. Okay. He was a player manager. Right.

And it was sometimes Frank Robinson, who actually today is the 50th anniversary of Frank Robinson managing his first game for the Cleveland Indians, the first black manager hired in Major League Baseball history. And he had a home run. Really? In his game. Yes.

So he was a player manager when he first started. That's crazy. 1975. Was that his last year playing? I think it was. I believe it was. You love Frank Robinson. Oh.

Again, when I talk about the gifts, one of the greatest gift was to know Frank Robinson as well as I did. I mean, he's baseball. He was baseball royalty. Right. He's one of the best players we've ever seen. And I covered him in Baltimore as a front office executive and then as a manager for the Expos and the Nationals. And we had a lot of fun conversations.

And again, sometimes I say to myself, you know, that's not me. I didn't do that. I mean, you know, the Tommy growing up, to think that he would, you know, know Frank Robinson is insane. Right. Yeah. All right, let's talk some Ovi. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Guys, personal experience with a product that I want to tell you about,

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Neither one of us was there for that one on Sunday, but Tommy was there on Friday night for the two goals, including the one that tied Wayne Gretzky. We'll get to Alex Ovechkin and some of Tommy's thoughts. I spent a lot of time on him yesterday, but first Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, like you said, we're going to talk about Alasovetskian and Friday night when the Capitol's their last home game,

they played the Blackhawks. I was there in the arena for that, and after the game, I went to Shelly's to have what I called a post-Oveshkin smoke, a celebration of sorts. Shelly's backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district. and the place was filled with Capitol fans. You know, Capitol fans, they're celebrating, lighten up victory cigars. I mean, it's double pleasure because the Caps won the game.

You know, they beat the Black Hawk. They've been struggling of late. So it was an important win for them. But, you know, there's a lot of Caps fans. So if you're going to the Caps game Thursday night, I highly recommend pre- or post-game, Shelly's back. room. And I won't be there Thursday night, but I will be there Sunday for the home game finale. It's fan appreciation night as well. And all the games now are special. That game Friday night was special.

So, you know, you can cap off a special night of Caps playoff playing by getting to Shelly's backroom. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. All right. Before we get to just, you know, thoughts, your thoughts, because I shared them with everybody yesterday on Ovechkin breaking the record, I just want to hear what it was like there Friday night. I've heard from friends who were there on Friday night that said it was unbelievable. You say what?

First of all, wait, wait. What time did you get down there? Oh, I got down there. I'd say about 10 to 4. Oh, so not 3.30. You wanted to be down there at 3.30, so a little bit after that. But plenty of time to get settled. Yes.

And to get a good parking spot. Okay. So tell me about Friday night. Oh, Friday night was special. First of all, from a personal point of view, it was special because we all got to do a scrum interview with Wayne Gretke. Gretzky had been going to Alex's games. He was at the game Friday night, and they brought him into the press box to do like a scrum, a spontaneous interview.

And he was, you know, he's said, has said all the right things, you know, talking about how Gordy Howe had been so good to him when he broke Gordy Howe's record. and Wayne talked about his father told him when that happened. You know, someday, you know, maybe somebody will be breaking your record and you need to remember this so you can be just as welcoming when that happens. And he was. He's embraced Lvetchkin. And the moment now it's a little bit easier for him to embrace it because no one is arguing,

still, no one is debating that Wayne Gretke still isn't the greatest hockey player in history and elite. Right. You know, I mean, he still has the overall points total,

uh, and, and nobody's ever going to break that record. Okay. But, uh, the goaling record is similar to the home run record in baseball. And,

uh, I'm sure it was special to him. And I, I'll bet he probably didn't think it was going to be broken. Because, uh, you know, it was easier to score goals when Gretzky played, given the nature of the game, than it is now.

You could find out, you know, goal scoring in the NHL was higher back then than it is during the Ovechkin era. But, you know, so when he, when he, you know, he scored the first goal, and then you just figured, I mean, then you thought maybe, you know, maybe he's got a hat trick at him. Maybe he's going to break the record tonight. And then when he scored the second one, the one that tied it, I mean, there was lots of, I mean, the arena exploded. It was very loud as loud as I've ever heard it. It was a great moment. The Blackhawks were great in acknowledging the moment for Ovechkin.

But at least for me, I thought, wow, he might break the record. Yeah. He might get a third. I wouldn't have bet that he would have gotten two. you know, he just, he's just, he, he, he, it's not flustered, is not the right word, I don't want to say it. Being caught up in the moment does not affect his game. It really doesn't. And you could see that Friday night with the way he played.

And, you know, I'm sure there were Caps fans that wish that, you know, don't play him on Sunday so he could break the record. You know, they're home this Thursday night. but you know breaking the record like he did in in elmont new york at the islanders arena uh i don't think took away anything from it at all i don't either i actually think it was kind of cool that he did you know he had a moment at home on friday night and like you said there were opportunities many opportunities except when they pulled the goaltender and he didn't want it to come via an empty net goal um but there were so many chances there and the drama of that was really, I mean, on the edge of your seat stuff, you know, watching it on TV.

And then on Sunday, you know, first of all, and I had smoking Al, I had Al Koken on the show yesterday. Al was great. You can go back and listen to it if you want. He was on with me in the second segment. But he said, you know, that he said 30 or 40 percent caps fans. Other people told me that they thought it was 50, 50 or even higher caps to Islanders fans. fans, but the Islanders fans were there to witness history, too. Yeah. You know? Islander fans, they've seen some great hockey over the years. Okay, they are true hockey fans.

And a true hockey fan can recognize the greatness of the moment. Yeah. You know, it's funny because Gary Bettman, in his comments during the center ice ceremony, said, you know, greatness will now be connected to your name. And I wrote this in my column, and I thought, you know, greatness has always been part of Alex Ovechkin's name. That's nothing new. He's always been great, you know, and I think I understand.

I think hockey fans all around the NHL have recognized that. So, yeah, I thought it was a great moment that he broke it. Did you watch it on TV? Were you watching at the time? I was, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was watching it as well with some Caps fans who stood and cheered, you know, wherever there. Where were you watching with Caps fans? I was watching it at the quartermaster's in Frederick, my Cigar Place in Frederick, where I go.

So I was watching it there, and it was filled with Caps fans. I think it's one of those moments for a lot of people. where they'll remember where they were when they watched it. You know, I think they'll remember that years from now, especially if you're younger and you're a Capp's fan, I think you'll remember that moment and remember where you were or where you watched it. You know what? I agree with that. And I mentioned this yesterday.

It actually hit me in a way that I didn't really think it would hit me. And you know why. I'm just not a big hockey guy. I'm not a big caps fan. For whatever reason, don't ask me why I'm just not a massive Capitals fan. I'm a massive fan of every other team, but for whatever reason, and it's probably just the lack of interest in the sport over the years, although I do love it at playoff time.

I do. And it's going to be fun to watch this team and to see how they do in the postseason. But it definitely is going to stick. that goal, power play goal, the lining up and shaking all the Islanders fans as if it was the end of a series, the, you know, the messages that came via the video screen, the commissioner, Ted standing down there on the ice, you know, Gretsky. I loved OV's speech because it was all about we. It was, he's very, he's very, there's a lot of humility, there's a lot of understanding that even if it is all about him,

it's not the way to be presented. I think he's got, I think it's genuine, actually. I mean, going back to... Oh, I think it is, too. I think he gets a lot of joy from the camaraderie of a locker room. Yeah, no doubt. A lot of athletes have over the years.

And I think he gets a lot of joy about that. I think part of it, too, as it was on the road and, you know, OV, OV, the chance are coming. But, you know, I just thought of this. I mentioned it yesterday, but I just thought of it as it relates to you. You know, correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just reaching for this. But there was a time, I believe, where you thought that Ovechkin breaking a Gretzky record and his, you know, his heritage, his Russian heritage, him not being an American or a Canadian-born player,

the ties that he had to Putin, that this would not be a popular thing. Am I wrong about that? I don't want to misrepresent it. No, no, that's not right. I never thought it would not be a popular thing. But the only caveat, and I wrote this in my calm, was that, I think it would have been celebrated, but I think it would have been an asterisk if they didn't win the Stanley Cup. Oh, okay. So you didn't say at any point that you thought that this would be a controversial thing, that it would be a mixed result in terms of the way hockey fans viewed it?

That's fine. No, no, not hockey fans. But I mean, I've written that I find it difficult to ignore those connections, but I certainly recognize that people compartmentalize, especially sports fans all the time, you know. And for hockey fans, they just as soon not even think about it. So, no, I've ever thought it would diminish within the game of hockey, what he thought, you know, what his reception would be. But, you know, I mean, I can.

can't ignore that some of the baggage that comes with them. But I knew it would be buried at a moment like this. I have no problem with that. I get that. So I think one of the things that I thought about, and I think it was because I thought about you in that moment. But anyway, perhaps inaccurately, I think that sports is just so different than so much in life because, you know, it's always, almost always, about merit. You know, unless you're playing in, you know, an international event on behalf of your country, it's there's, you know, there's a true love for this guy. You can see he's a popular player. And I think all that, you know, patriotism, all those, you know, jingoistic feelings, they just all get sort of snuffed out in sports, unless, of course, it's an international event or an Olympic event.

But what you said, it's so funny because I asked Joe B this yesterday, and I think I asked Al on the podcast, I wonder how it would be viewed if he hadn't won the cup in 2018. And that thing, and that 10,000 pound weight was still, you know, on his shoulders and had not been tossed off. I mean, there would have been ceremony, there would have been pomp and circumstance. There would have been a real recognition of how great the feat was. but yeah, go ahead. But I referred to it in my column that if that happened,

if you looked at it through a long lens, you're right. That would be hard to ignore. Oh, impossible to ignore. Yes, yes. So that, that Stanley Cup gave the moment Sunday solid ground. In many ways, I don't want to comp it directly to this, but I mean, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.

Got to one, never won a Super Bowl. But there's no doubt that in terms of a pure passer and quarterback, he's in the conversation for the greatest that's ever played the game. But it's what you talk about when you talk about Marino. After you talk about his brilliant arm and release and accuracy, yeah, but he never won a Super Bowl. And that would have hung on Alex Ovechkin forever, forever. Because all of the great... Yeah.

This is the conversation Barry Trots had with Ovechkin before the 2017-18 season. Trots, the coach then, was in Europe, I think, visiting his daughter, who was working over there or something, and then made a side trip to Russia to visit Alex. and they had this heart to her conversation where Trots told him, look, this is what they're going to say about you no matter how much you do individually,

they're going to say, but he never won the Stanley Cup. That's going to be your legacy. You know, they had that conversation. Now, I'm not saying that changed things in 2018, you know, but look, the people inside were very aware

that it would affect his legacy. That's why I'm glad that they won, and he, again, you know, he doesn't have to deal with those kind of questions. Right, because the other part of it is that the superstars that preceded him, and I'm talking about the most recent, like Mario Lemieux, won multiple cups. Wayne Gretzky, multiple. Sidney Crosby was winning cups. Yes, his comparable.

Right. You know, his cohort, Sidney Crosby has won multiple cups. So, yeah, that even accentuates it. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, and because he did not have some good playoff performance. Right. That's right.

They went to the playoffs, I think, seven times with Ovechkin, or seven or nine times before they finally did win the Stanley Cup. They were in early exit. Well, it might have been more than that. Maybe even more than that. No, more than one of the cup? I don't think so. Okay. They made the playoffs basically, didn't they, every year that he was there until... No.

No? No. Okay. There were a couple years where they missed the playoffs. 2008, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Missed it in 14, 15, 16, 17. 9 playoff seasons. Nine playoffs.

He missed the playoffs, his first year, and then the in 2014. Yeah. Yeah. And then they won the cup. And they have not won a playoff series since. No. No, they have not. Right.

But he's got that cup. They have not won a playoff series since they decided to basically, you know, low ball, Barry Trots. Yeah. Seems like one of the silliest things of all time. Because you know who, you know with that cup, you know who else was taken off the hook with that cup? The owner. you know Ted seemed a little uncomfortable

on side I don't want to steer this into it Ted thing well uncomfortable how well on Sunday he just seemed a little bit uncomfortable when the microphone went to him when he was in his box

you know shortly after the goal was scored and I'm thinking Ted was sweating bullets after that broadcast you saw what happened I don't know what you're talking about. The monumental broadcast froze several times and actually went off. And they put up there having technical difficulties. Right.

When that happened, I immediately turned it to TNT and I left it there. Sorry, Jobi and Locker, because, of course, Jobby and Locker are the best. And we have the call, and thank God, it was cleared in time for the call. and their call was perfect. I know. I know it was, and I got to see it on Monumental. But you can be sure once that happened, the only thing Ted was worried about was that his little network stayed on the air.

How much air time was, how much of the game was missed? Very brief. Very brief. But enough one time for them to flash at technical difficulties message on the screen. You know, other times it would just freeze. I remember at least three or four times. Okay. That's all we were talking about.

That's a nightmare. That's a nightmare. Yes. So I think he was just happy that that didn't happen in the worst moment possible because we'd be talking about it. But it didn't. And everybody's happy. And it's one big party.

So let's wrap. And the party continues Thursday night. Let's wrap it up the Ovechkin with this, because I did this on radio today. There's no debate who the greatest team sport athlete in the history of this town is, if we only go back, say, 50 years, because I think the only other debatable player would be Walter Johnson, if we went back 100 years. But in the last... Well, I think there's others.

But I would say in the last 75 years, that Alex Ovechon. Who are the others? You'd say Josh Gibson and Sammy Ball? Yeah. But not for number one. Oh, look, people forget. Football came to NFL football came to Washington because it had failed in Boston. Okay? Yeah.

There was no guarantee it was going to work in Washington. Sammy Ball came in as a rookie and won an NFL championship. And the franchise that you see. Celebrate now exists because of Sammy Ball and no one else. He would have won the MVP if they had the MVP award. And Josh Gibson is considered among the greatest hitters in the history of baseball. I know, but Walter Johnson's considered by most to be either the greatest pitcher or top two or three pitchers of all time. And Alex Ovechkin is considered to be the greatest, well, he is, the greatest goal score.

of all time and probably now not top five greatest hockey players. I know that. I know that, but probably into the top ten now. Probably into the top ten. Sammy Baugh's not a top ten all-time football player. Oh, he certainly is. Oh, he is not. Yes, he is. No, he isn't. Okay. I would disagree with that. Well, I mean, Sammy Ball would certainly be on a list of like the top 50

all-time NFL players, but not top 10. You find me... Oh, I think he is. Okay. Ovechkin, let's stick to the 75-year thing so we can move it along. The 75-year thing, there's no doubt that Ovechkin is the greatest team sport player, right? Yes. So the question I asked callers today is, because I make a distinction between greatest play and the all-time sports legend, team sport legend. You know, legend is more about the popularity. The, you know, I had the definition reads as follows for, for, it would be an extremely

famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field. To me, the answer to that question is not Ovechkin. It's John Riggins. And I think there are probably a couple of more you would consider. OV would be in the conversation for that. But we're talking about a team and a player that had a mass following in this town. It's not necessarily what Ovechkin has had. So you'd answer the question to the greatest legend in team sport history over the last 75 years.

Who would your answer be? The greatest legend? I'm sorry, you've lost me now. So the definitely... I don't know why you're driving down this road. Why? There's a difference. I don't know why.

There's a difference between a sports legend and the greatest player. The greatest player is Ovechkin. We all agree on that. The greatest sports legend in the history of this town is somebody who was legendary because of what they did in their field, but also because they became super popular, super famous, notorious, etc. There's a difference.

Do you think there's... Are you disagreeing with me that there's a difference? I'm not sure I see the difference. Okay, then you can't answer the question because you just say it's OVie. No. Yeah, I'm not sure I see the difference. To me, Riggins,

is a much more, much more of a legendary sports figure than Alex Ovechkin is in this town. Well, actually, to me, Sonny Jurgensen is, and he didn't win. There you go. Okay. You just answered the question. You see the difference. Because Sonny would definitely be in the conversation. Definitely. Nice job. Ironically, you know who else would be in the conversation? Who? Steven Strassburg.

You know who else would be in the conversation? be in the conversation, Doug Williams. Yes, yes, you're right. And Darrell Green. Yeah. You're coming around. You see the difference. Yes. So the Nats real quickly.

Let's just finish up with, they've won three in a row and they beat the Dodgers last night as a massive underdog. Yes, the Dodgers, look, they got the key performances from two legitimate future stars. and McKenzie Gore, who pitched well and James Woods, who hit a home run. Okay, they've been getting the past three games. They've been getting good starting pitching,

okay, and the bullpen has enough to get to a bullpen where it doesn't melt down, but it's a very precarious bullpen situation. And it's going to take its toll at some point, but they have

some very good young talent. and James Wood and McKenzie Gore are two of the best. Did you know that last night in the top of the ninth with a six to four lead with James Wood do up in the bottom of the ninth that they replaced him defensively with call? Okay. I'm just curious as to whether or not you think that that's an interesting situation. They were ahead? They were ahead six to four. top of the ninth, it's the Dodgers,

and he was due up, I think, second in the bottom of the ninth, had he been in the game? They were winning, right? They were winning. They replaced him. Is he not good enough defensively? Well, I think the other guy's better. Okay.

I mean, the Dodgers had Muncie and Otani and Conforto and bets all come up in the top of the ninth. Okay. I have no problem with it. Okay. It didn't wasn't an issue. They were able to get out of it and win the game six to four. I just thought that was interesting.

I read about that this morning. I did not watch the game. And I thought, wow, I mean, the guy that's hit the home run, he's got two RBIs. It's a big part of why you've gotten to this spot and you're going to replace them against the heart of the Dodgers order with the Dodgers only down two runs. I just thought that was interesting, but apparently not. Dylan Cruz is struggling mightily. He has, I think, one hit on the season. That's it.

One hit in how many at bats. I don't know what it is at this point. 32 at bats? No, I'm sorry. He's got three hits now. He had two against here. He's three for 32. Not a great start.

but it's a long season. They're going to go ahead and play the rest of them. Yes. All right. Anything else that you have? Oh, by the way. What? Tammy Ball was named the third greatest NFL player in the history of the league

and the 43rd greatest athlete of the 20th century by Associated Press in 1999. Okay. That's in 1999. We've played another 25, 26 years of football now. had some really good players along the way that are in the top 10. Really? Who? Tom Brady?

Peyton Manning. Okay. Aaron Rogers, potentially. Certainly the first two I mentioned. NFL Network. Aaron Donald. The most versatile player of all time. Mm-hmm.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Why? You really should. Why? To diminish what he's like. I didn't diminish. I just said he's not top 10. I know where he was on Sports Century.

I said he's not top 10. I said you're not going to be able to find a list where he's top 10. I know that he would be in the top. I just found a list. From 1999. Don't make it seem like it's the Stone Age, Kevin. It's 26 years ago, Tom. Oh, my God.

What are you talking about? 11th greatest player of the 20th century by Sporting News in 1999. 2010, a 14th greatest player in the history by the NFL network. Okay. So there you go. Yeah. I don't have any problem with him being in a top 25, top 30, top 40. But that's what I just said you're not going to probably find him in the top 10.

That's all. That puts him among the top players in the history of this town. Yes. But not ahead of Walter Johnson or Alex Ovechkin more likely than not. That was my point. No, but you're wrong there. That's where you're wrong. Why? Walter Johnson's considered to be the greatest pitcher in the history of the game,

and Alex Ovechkin now is pretty much a top 10 player. I mean, right around number 10 or 9 or 8, but he's there. My point was the player that you would argue, if we go back 100 years, as the greatest team sport athlete in the history of the game, would be Walter Johnson. more than it would be Sammy Baugh or Josh Gibson. And you said, no, Sammy Baugh is a top 10 NFL player of all time. And I said, no, he isn't.

He's not top 10. Well, I think he is. Okay. These are all opinion of things anyway. On any list. What did you say? Of greatest sports athletes in this town. Say that again? Sorry.

He's ahead of Alex Oveskkin on any list of greatest sports athletes in this history of this town. Okay, I think the list would start with Walter Johnson and Alex Ovechkin. And then we could talk about who number three is. And by the way, Sammy Ball would certainly be in the conversation for number three. Might be number three. And by the way, Tommy, I'm surprised you haven't said this already. If we're talking about legends, which you finally got around to understanding legend, he would certainly be a legend.

He's one of the great legends in the history of this town. I wasn't around to see it, but, yeah. You know, I interviewed Sammy Ball? You've told me that before, yes. That's hard to believe. Huh? That's hard to believe. Let me just see where, remember they did the top 100 NFL players of all time

on that show with Belichick? Where was he on that one? That's the one where he was 14. Okay. Yeah. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady. Oh, Brady wasn't on this list because he was still playing. Interesting.

So Brady obviously would be in front of him when they did this. Who else would be in front of him? That would be it, probably. I mean, Aaron Rogers is certainly going to be a top top. 20 player of all time, top 25 player of all time, but probably not where Sammy Balls. Aaron Donald is probably not going to be top 10 all time, but he's going to be close. Those would be the players. Okay.

I don't think I'm missing anybody. Yeah. Okay. Anything else from you, champ, legend? So good that you got to go to that game Friday. you, boss. I gave you the best I had today. Christian demanded it. Christian McCaffrey. Who

knew? All right. I'll talk to you on Thursday. I'm back tomorrow, everybody.