The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cigars, Curveballs, & Wemby

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

Kevin and Thom today with a recap of Thom's Cigars & Curveballs Charity event last night at Shelly's. The boys reacted to Victor Wembanyama's memorable performance last night in San Antonio's 122-115 2OT win over Oklahoma City in Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals. The Nats, Eli Manning, and Sherm Lewis were part of the show as well.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Get 20% off your first order at www.FastGrowingTrees.com with code [Sheehan].   So if you are looking to make Mother’s Day perfect, or just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal next time you host, go to www.GOLDBELLY.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code sheehan.   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. He is Kevin. Tommy's here and moving slowly today. I am here and moving slowly today because we had a blast last night at Tommy's annual Cigars and Curve Balls Charity event at Shelley's backroom. Great night last night.

The show's presenting sponsor is Window Nation. There was a Window Nation mention or two last night at Shelley's. 86690 Nation, Windonation.com, if you need new windows. How you feeling? Tommy every year, when he throws this very successful, very well attended, with big name stars in the crowd, charity event, Tommy, every year, Tommy every year decides that he's not going to make the trek back home. He books a hotel for himself, books a massage, has, you know, room service with a big breakfast in the morning. I'm surprised you're not recovered. I mean, you were pampered once you got back to the Mayflower last night.

Yeah, Mayflower. You're a little bit off. A little bit. Where'd you say? You know, my Marriott's points paid for the lowest. Price Marriott in D.C. That's not true. Really?

Which Marriott did you stay in? It's called the Moxie. It's on 10,000, the 1,000 block of K Street. It's very, it's very functional. It's a different kind of hotel. Okay. Look, I'm married, they do things right. So it's a good hotel, but, you know, I use points.

I had some married points. Um, well, there you go. And I, you know what? Sometimes it's just relaxing to have a room by yourself, you know, do what you want to do and get a good night. Did you get a good night sleep at least? Well, except for getting rid of all the beer I drank. We had some beer last night. We drank some beer. I didn't drink anything else. I just stuck with beer last night. Is that what you did? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I typically do. I'm not a liquor drinker. Right. So I typically drink beer. And, you know, I had been there since like 1 o'clock because I was bagging the cigar bags for the event.

You know, three cigars in every bag for people. And I put matches in there. I put a D.C. gray's pamphlet in there. And that's, you know, assembly line work. So it takes a little bit of time. so I was drinking while I was doing that. I was drinking when I was done with it, and I stopped briefly when the event started,

and then I picked up after that. Yeah. I want to thank everybody who showed up and helped make it another great night for the D.C. Grays, a great cause. I particularly want to thank you for always showing up and for your generosity.

Kevin bid on an item in the auction and wanted a very unique item. It had nothing to do with sports, but Kevin, it turns out it's an art connoisseur. An art connoisseur, that's funny. That's good. Yeah.

You bid on a lithograph, right? I did. Yes. I, I, you know what? I have all this, I have a lot of interesting art that sits essentially up against, a wall in my office at home because, as you know, I'm not a big office decorator. Right.

But I liked the lithograph. It was very nice of sort of a beautiful DC cherry blossom scene. And I thought one day, if I decide to hang some of this stuff somewhere in the house, this one would be good to have on the wall. But it also could become a gift that I could give to somebody like my wife who might enjoy it. at some, she'd be like, where did you get this? And I'd say, well, you know, it's Tommy's event. You wouldn't believe the things he's able to secure as auction items.

Yeah, it was a great turnout per usual. We're in the big room now. Remember when we used to be in the small room. We're in the big room now. It was great to see Mike Rizzo. He is truly one of my all-time favorite sports teams. executives that we've had to deal with over the last, you know, two decades or whatever it's been. He's such a good guy and he is incredibly generous. And that's a testament to you because he

really is fond of you and really likes you a lot. And he was incredibly generous last night. He was the one that was truly generous last night, as he always is. And it was great to see him. And he sounds like he's doing well. Yes. His organization, him and his wife, at Carter an organization called the Rizzo Family Foundation, and it specifically called Riz Kids, where they donate money every year to a cause

that helps underprivileged children in the district, and they give grants to them, and we were one of the recipients of their grants, a $10,000 grant. Amazing. From Riz kids. Very, very, very, generous. Yeah. Really, really nice. Good to see him. The former governor of the state of Virginia,

Terry McCullough, was there last night. I'm curious, was he, did he come for the event? Did he come with Rizzo? Did you figure that out? You actually thought it was Mark Warner at first, and I said, no, that's not Mark Warner. No, no. Somebody told me. Oh, okay. Got it. I didn't see him. And I can't believe. I spoke to him. when he first came in, and it didn't click as to who he was. I can't believe that. But, no, there was somebody else who is kind of like a lobbyist in D.C. who had invited him and several other people.

But then that guy wound up not showing up because he couldn't catch a flight back home in time from where he was. So, no, he was not there because of Rizzo, but he knows Mike Vennel. very well. Yeah, Mike, Mike said that he, that he knows him very well. He seemed to enjoy himself. We had Doc in the house. We had, you know, booty was in the house. He comes every year. He loves your event, former Eagle, and briefly a former Washington player. You know what? Yeah. Chris, the rooster was there. Chris Russell was there last night. Where was Andy? Andy's always there. He must have had something going on. And he couldn't. Something came up. He apologized

that he couldn't make it, but he bought a ticket. Okay. And then, yeah, I mean, a lot of people, a lot of listeners obviously were there, and it was great to see some of them. I met a couple of people that called the show for the first time last night, two or three people that came last night for the first time ever, that are callers to the radio show and have been listening to us on the podcast. podcast for years. Yeah, it was a nice night. You know, in a way, I mean,

it's the only public event the podcast kind of is connected to, right? Yes, I guess. I didn't know it was actually connected to it. I guess it is because it's an auction item. I always list as a sponsor on all the advertisements. There you go. You know, and it's, it's, it's an opportunity to meet some of the people who support us. Yes, that's my, whenever we get to do these things, my favorite part is to meet people that have not only been listening to us, but in particular, the people that have called or written, you know, into the show for years.

Because there's definitely a connection with many of those people that's two-way versus one way. More people listen and don't call and write than actually listen in Duke. In fact, I think there was like, I can remember years ago. Basically, it was like less than a half of 1% of your audience actually will ever pick up the phone and call the show. I don't know what the numbers are now. But in terms of people that call and write, there's like a two-way connection and relationship. and it's always fun to meet those people at events like this. And I just want to tell everybody that the D.C. Grace, the collegiate baseball team,

which is the other part of our operation, players from all over the country, come and play in the Cal Ripkin Summer Baseball League and the D.C. Graves are one of the teams in the league. and we start play next month at a new home. We're going to be playing at Catholic University. Yeah, that's a great venue. Yeah. Yes, it is. We're very excited about that.

By the way, also, I mean, we've got to thank Bob Moderazzi. Yes. I know you did last night, and Chris did, and everybody did. But Bob is the owner of Shelley's backroom forever. And Bob was my next-door neighbor many years ago, like going back, 10 years ago, 15 years ago was my next door neighbor for several years. I've talked about that

before. But Bob, first of all, he looked great, and it was great to have him. He actually bid on something. Oh, he bid on a, I mean, how about a Sonny Jurgensen photo that was like on a

plaque that was signed by Sunny? It was the Hall Fame, his Hall of Fame induction. It was his Hall of, Oh, okay. I didn't know specifically what it was. Got it. Got it.

The Platt is a Lifelong Skins fan, and I'm sure a lifelong Sunny fan. So it was good to see him. He's great. And the place was awesome last night. It was great. I think about the reads for the Shelley's backroom menu that you do on this show all the time. And I've said many times, I mean, the Shelley's burger custom blend of course, is first rate. And we sat around and we drank long after the event ended until kind of late

last night. And we ordered burgers for the table. Yes. And they are good burgers. You know, there's like a, you know, there's like the best burger in town thing that every city has. You know, when, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago when burgers became the rage. And I'm not talking about fast food burgers. I'm talking about fast, casual, you know, places like five guys, et cetera, but also restaurant burgers. And you always get, you know, the local magazines, you know, do all the food stuff and all the restaurant stuff, best restaurants top. And you always get an annual in Washingtonian or Bethesda magazine or whichever ones, you know, you read, you know, best burger, you know, in town. I'm telling you, Shelly's has a great burger. It is up there.

really, really good. So don't think about it just as a cigar bar or a place to go down and get a cocktail or four. Think about it for lunch because they've got a great menu. One last thing. Yeah. One last thank you. I want to thank Ed Cobra from Quartermaster Cigars and Frederick. He's also one of the sponsors of the event and gives me a lot of support with things I need, cigars, things like that.

and I really appreciate his support as well. I think you get a lot of support putting this thing together, don't you? Yes. Yeah. Yes. You know, it's a very impressive event, it is. It's quite the, you know, as you've always said, it's your simplicity that makes you so complex.

This is a complex thing to put together, and some of us kind of wonder how you're able to pull up, off. Oh, you know why? Do I sound surprised? Like I said before? Every year? I'm not as dumb as I look.

No, you're not. Fun night. Fun night. So I got home for basically the second half of the fourth quarter in the two overtimes in the game last night. Now, I did record the game. I didn't really need to go back and watch the first three and half quarters. I was not in condition.

to do that. But we've got to get to truly one of the more thrilling, you know, playoff games we've seen in a few years. And, you know, it is a performance that will be discussed for a long time, but sometimes that can just be recency bias. I want to find out where you come in on Victor Wembeñama's performance last night in game one of the Western Conference finals. We'll do it right after these words from a few. of our sponsors. All right, guys, listen up. I'm going to tell you about the only gift

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That's 20% off at fast-growing trees. com with code shean terms and conditions may apply. Webb's going to pull a deep three. Oh my goodness. A logo shot. 28 footer. He's in at 108. Mike Tariko with the call of Victor Wembeyanama's 28-foot three-point shot with just over 26 seconds to go.

in the first overtime, San Antonio went on to win the game in double overtime to take game one of the Western Conference finals. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation if you need new windows. I highly recommend Window Nation, and right now you can get access to their buy-four get-for free sale. That means for every four windows purchased, the next four are free. that means you're paying half price on your window purchase. Add to that, no money down, no monthly payments, and no interest for two full years if you choose to finance the purchase. It all starts with an in-home estimate.

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86690 Nation, window nation.com. So I know you've kind of gotten yourself caught up to speed on Victor Wenbinima's performance last night. If you don't know much about it at this point, you're really not paying attention to sports. Yeah. because it was truly, in many ways, historic in terms of what he did. You know, I hate doing this where we get carried away sometimes because it's such a recency-biased world that we live in. First of all, I would say this.

It's really hard to have an all-time memorable game in game one of a series. The all-time great memorable playoff games, all usually are from game sevens or games in which, you know, somebody could be eliminated, you know, a game five or a game six. This is a game one. He had 41 points, 24 rebounds, three block shots, three assists. He became the first player since Wilt to have at least 40 and 20 in a conference finals debut. He became the youngest player in NBA history to record at least a 40.

plus and a 20 plus game in the postseason. The 28-foot-3 that he hit was in transition. He literally caught it as a 7-foot-5-inch center, stopped on a dime, and fired a three that tied the game at 108. It was among a night of wow moments from Wembe. That was, because I was watching that one live, that was an out loud, oh my God, wow moment when he hit that shot. He is, quite honestly, Tommy, he is, if not the most imposing defensive presence

in NBA history at that position. He's certainly already in a very, very small group of the greatest defensive presences around the rim that I've ever seen. I've never seen somebody alter so many shots from, basically 12 feet and in. You can't shoot normally from like 12 feet and in if he's in the paint. He totally dominated the second overtime with nine points, four rebounds and a block shot. In San Antonio, one game one, 122 to 115 in WOT.

And I will tell you this, I mean, I picked OKC. I didn't think that anybody could beat him four out of seven. I started to kind of get a bit queasy about that thought watching San Antonio against Minnesota. But there's no doubt that if they don't win tomorrow night, it's a wrap. San Antonio could literally essentially end this series by winning in Oklahoma City the first two nights. I still give OKC a shot. They're so good defensively. They're so deep.

It was a phenomenal basketball game. And a truly memorable performance. I'm certainly not going to put it in the class of Magic's performance in Game 6, 1980 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. When he played center with Kareem out and scored 42 points, had 15 assists and seven rebounds. I think that for me is my all-time number one playoff performance. That's not in the realm of that. It's a game one. But this guy, Tommy, is different.

I don't remember in my lifetime watching somebody that looks like him play like him. You know what I love about this guy and what's going to be happening now? It's already happening, particularly after a game like last night. A whole generation that used to dismiss him is now recognizing and learning about Will Chamberlain. because the conversations now are about Wembe Nihanna and Chamberlain. And people are having to go back and look at what Walt did for maybe the first time besides declaring Michael Jordan as the greatest player in the history of the NBA

and say, wow, look at this. So, I mean, what he's doing is helping a generation of fans rediscover who Will Chamberlain was. Because that's how far back you have to go to find somebody as physically dominating as this guy is. There's no doubt there's been a lot of Wilt talk with him. No doubt. I didn't see Wilt play. You did.

My father, I've told you many times, he's a Wilt guy. I mean, it doesn't matter what you say. No, no, no, sorry. You didn't see Wilt. if you think that, well, you didn't see Wilt. And we've talked about this many times. There's no team sport athlete that's ever had numbers that are so different than everybody else's that played in the sport like Wilt's numbers.

He averaged over 50 and over 25 rebounds in a season. And I know what an absolute alien he was when he arrived. and he's 7172 and he's doing things that nobody did. And I think that's where the comparison is. Because stylistically, they're different. Obviously, Wilk didn't shoot. Yes, they are. Yeah.

Wilk was not as smooth, certainly, as Wembeiana. Okay. But results-wise, you know, I mean, it's the comparison. it's a comparison right now and this guy is so young and he has so much more growing to do I mean get a little bit heavier

a little bit stronger and then what's the league going to do that's the thing is that you know first of all when you said physically overpowering at some point I think he's going to become physically overpowering and I don't think he's there yet at 22 years old

You know, he's still only 225, 230 pounds, you know, at 7.5. He's not pushing people around. No, and he can get pushed around, you know, because he's not physically where he's going to be two, three years. And that's a frightening thought. Because when I think about truly physically overpowering players, I think is Shaq first. You know, Shaq's, that was his game. I mean, he was, he came into college basketball. a fully grown man child and just overpowered people. Wemby is this seven-foot-five guy who

doesn't look awkward, doesn't look gangly. He is so skilled as a ball handler, as a shooter, as a passer. He plays more facing the basket than he does with his back to the basket. that's offensively. I think where he is truly unique right now is defensively. You know, he had 12 blocks in the game in the Minnesota series. He is the defensive player of the year, and I can't remember watching offenses, you know, so influenced by one person in the pain.

You cannot. Now, one of the things I've noticed, like SGA did it last night, and he did not have a great game shooting-wise at all, but he passed it well, and he kept attacking. If you actually make contact with Wembe, like you lean into him on your drive, he's just skinny enough right now where he'll go backwards. Now, he can still block this shot, but you've got a better shot.

If you try to put it up where there is space between him and you, it's getting thrown back. You have no chance, and if you loft it super high, well, he's altered the shot. And that's what you, like the Minnesota series was amazing how many times you would see players, including Anthony Edwards, drive into the paint and then peel away. Like, well, that's as far as I'm going in the paint with this drive. I'm looking to kick the ball out. his defensive impact on games.

I mean, you might tell me that Russell was that. Russell obviously wasn't 7 foot 5. Elijah 1 was that for a while. Elijah 1 was truly a defensive game changer at the position. But this guy is so much taller. I mean, you know, Hakeem was 7 feet, 7.1. 7 feet, you know, right around there. This guy's 7 5.

You know, the player, and I had this on phone lines today, if Ralph Sampson had come along two or three years ago at 7-4 and the way he played, you know, style-wise, his style is similar to Wembe style, but you didn't shoot threes in Ralph's day. But Ralph could have shot threes. You know, he had a really good stroke. And he's, he's. played power forward next to Elijah one in the NBA. He didn't play center. He was great with his back to the basket. Don't get me wrong, but he also fancied himself to be a bit of a guard or a forward, which is what you see with Wemby. But Ralph wasn't the defensive player. He was fine, but he wasn't the defensive player. But their body type is very similar. What are the things people are going to find out is, again, you know, I mean, I'm just, look, I like Wenbiana.

He seems to have a great respect for the game. It seems like a very smart young man. But people are going to realize that they change the rules because of Will Chamberlain. You know, there was no such thing as offensive goaltending before Will Chamberlain. It didn't happen. They didn't need a rule for offensive goaltending. So that started because of the wall. And they widen the lane four feet.

They widen the lane. They didn't stay away from the basket. Exactly. He was a rule changer. Now, this guy, if this guy becomes so dominant, could he be a rule changer? Could he change actually the rule for the game? I mean, I don't know if you don't get him now,

and his team, because he's got a really good young team around him, too. Like, if you don't get him this year, if OKC doesn't come back and win this series, because I think that the winner of this series will be a prohibitive favorite in the NBA finals over either the Knicks or the Cavaliers. If you don't get him now when he's still, you know, 7.4.5, 7.5, and 225, 2.30, I don't know when you'll get him when he's more mature physically and mentally he has he's such a competitor

he has lost his cool a couple of times this year and he did it in the postseason in the last series and got ejected from the Minnesota game he actually lost his cool a little bit last night in the fourth quarter and barreled through I think it was Caruso who had a great game and they just called an offensive foul but they went and checked to see if it was flagrant

You can tell him. He's got that Jordan Kobe Larry Bird thing. I mean, this guy is competitive. But what you said is also true because I've seen so many interviews with him now. He's just so likable and seems smart and seems appreciative and humble. And, you know, at the same time, 49 minutes in game one last night. And he was still doing it deep into the second over. time. It was impressive. It was really impressive. That's the thing. If we believe the greatest

ability is availability. Yeah. There was one year where we'll play the minute of every game of the season. That's crazy. I think Elvin Hayes did that almost. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, he's not. You know, they were without Darren Fox last night. They're starting point guard who, you know, be right before Tim. apparently was ruled out with an injury that nobody thought was that serious in terms of it costing him a game. And Stefan Castle, who is, you know, this guy's a winner to begin with. I mean, obviously, you know, won a title to titles at Yukon. And he had in the game 11 assists, but also playing point guard. He had 11 turnovers, 11 turnovers in the game. I mean, they should be much better

with Deerrin Fox, which is a little bit scary. I want to point out Dylan Harper, who was the number two pick in the draft last year at Rutgers, he set an all-time rookie record with 20 plus points and more than five steals. He had seven steals in the game. They're loaded around him. That's the thing. They are so good around him.

And then on the flip side, you know, it was really interesting to watch the strategy. Again, I was, we were at your event and it was on and I was paying attention a little bit, but I watched when I got home really from early in the fourth quarter through the overtimes. And I'm watching something that it's really interesting because I had the head coach of the Wizards on the radio show last. No, I had them on the podcast. What am I talking about? I had them on the podcast on Wednesday of last week, I think it was. Brian Keefe. And I said about Wembe, what would you do? You know, what would you be doing to slow him down?

And he said, well, I don't really want to get into that. And I said, what are you holding back secrets for next year's finals matchup against San Antonio? He laughed, but then I said to him, I said, would you consider trying somebody small on Wembe? Because Minnesota tried it briefly with DeSumo rather than having go bear or a bigger guy guard him, and it seemed to give him some trouble. When I turned the game on last night, Caruso's guarding him, Lou Dorts guarding him. It wasn't, you know, Holmgren, it wasn't Hartnstein. They were using smaller players on him. I think, I actually was watching it, Tommy, and I'm like, this makes sense to me.

I know it seems crazy, and I thought they were doing a pretty good job on him, and yet he had 41, and he had 24 rebounds, nine offensive rebounds. But when a big guy has a small guy covering him, big guys hate when small guys cover him. Because you're just uncomfortable. You can't put the ball on the floor because it's going to get picked. And so if he's not going to set up on the block on every possession and he's going to set up at the free throw line or the elbow or on the wing, they had, you know, 6 foot 4 inch Caruso guarding him. He was great in the game last night.

He had 31, I think. I think it was an all-time playoff high for him. But I thought that that was a really interesting strategy. And I talked about it with Keith, and he said, there are a lot of different things, you know, but he didn't want to disclose next year's finals strategy. Right. For covering Wembe Niam.

Oh, it's interesting. And I keep going back to my old school days. I know that. But in game five of the 1970 playoffs between the Knicks and the Lakers, Uh-huh. That's when Willow Street went down early in the game. Okay. With a torn thigh muscle.

And it looked like, well, you know, we can't beat the Lakers without Will Chathes, you know, without Willis-Reed facing Wilchamberland. Right. So what the next did, they put DeBusher on him, Dave DeBusher, they put Kazi Russell. They brought in Cassie Russell off the bench and Dave Stallworth. Uh-huh. six, seven, six, eight guys.

And they harassed the shit out of them. And they wound up winning that game because of exactly what you said. Now, the next game, well, made an adjustment and dominated. So I don't know if you can sustain that kind of strategy. Well, it didn't. Ultimately, it didn't work. He scored 41. I mean, it's not like it worked, but it's when I was watching it, I'm like,

he is bothered a little bit, but he would still end up making a play. There are a couple of things about the game last night that I thought were interesting. Number one is the reason I'm not discounting Oklahoma City from still winning this series. What you saw last year, you saw as they got desperate down 10 in the fourth quarter, they are so deep in every single player on their team can guard. And they swarm you. I remember talking about this during the playoffs last year. It's like it's really kind of fun to watch because it's different.

It's not like, you know, one guy's locking down, one guy, one guy's lock in. They just swarm. They push you out. They create chaos. They disrupt everything you're trying to run. And during those overtimes last night, the possessions for San Antonio were not smooth. I mean, the ball got deflected. It got stripped, but then it was on the green.

ground. It just seemed like every single time OKC was on the verge of making a defensive play that could have been the difference in the game, the ball kind of bounced back to San Antonio. Dylan Harper on a scramble for the ball picked it up with one second on the shot clock and just threw it up and got fouled. And it was very fortunate, I thought, for San Antonio to ultimately, they were down three and OKC had the ball in the ball. the first overtime with 30 seconds left, 33 seconds left and 12 on the shot clock, and Jalen Williams threw up a terrible shot with, you know, it was not in their set offense.

There were 12 seconds left, and that was the rebound that led to the other end with Wembeñama's 28-foot-3 that tied it. But I thought that OKC had opportunities at the end of the first overtime, you know, especially in the overtimes. and they didn't take advantage or they just didn't get the ball to bounce the right way. There was an out of bounds call on a scramble, and it was called Oklahoma City ball, but you could see it just barely tipped off Chet Holmgren's shoe, and so San Antonio challenged it, got it overturned.

I think OKC can still win this series. I bet you the world and the NBA in particular is really rooting. and really wants Wembe Nama in the finals against the Nix. You know, because that could be a big time viewing audience for Wembe Nama against the New York Knicks in the final. But I still give O KC a shot. I still give them a chance. They just, they guard so well. And I'll tell you right now, the small guy on Wembe Nama was interesting.

We'll see if they continue to do it. But the real key defensively is almost recognizing that you can't stop them and you just have to stop everybody else. And the best way, Tommy, and this is an old basketball, you know, kind of defensive saying, the best way to guard the post is to guard the perimeter and the person passing to the post. If you make it difficult for them to pass it into the post, that's where they can actually do damage. because they're all excellent wing defenders and perimeter defenders. And you saw some of that. It wasn't easy at times for them to get the ball to Wembe Nyama. And that's how they have to do it defensively.

They got to guard the passer and really harass the entry pass. And then just try to create chaos and get out in transition. They're fun to watch. I really like Oklahoma City going back to last year to watch. to watch them play, but they're up against, I mean, they're up against Hercules. I mean, this dude is just... So we're assuming that the Knicks will be in the final. I am. I mean, I could be wrong.

Here's the problem, the Knicks haven't played in 9, 10 days. And I think that hurt OKC probably a little bit last night. They hadn't played in over a week. And so maybe Cleveland can jump on them tonight, but I wouldn't count on it. I'm just not a big Cavs believer. And the Knicks have played differently on offense in the postseason. I don't think either one of these two teams would have a chance in a best of seven against San Antonio or Oklahoma City. But I didn't think Indiana would have a chance last year, and they took OKC to seven.

So anything's possible. People, I'm telling you, Wembeeniam is worth watching, even if you, hate the NBA. Even if you dislike the NBA, he is totally worth the watch. I would agree with that. All right. Anything else on this? No.

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Shelly's. Well, Shelly's back room at 1331 F3 Northwest in the district, was the center for the place to be last night, the Cigars and Curveballs host, the D.C. Grace fundraiser. And one of the things I love about the fundraiser is that it introduces a lot of people to Shelly's for the first time. Yeah. You know, people who might not have shown up down there, come to Shelly's. and they see what a warm, friendly place it is. They see what a comfortable place it is. They see how helpful the staff is at Shelly.

Yeah. You know, great. I think he keeps, I think, I said this to him last night. I said, I think for as many years as we've been coming down here, I think you've got the same people working in your place. He goes, a lot of them have been here with me for years. That's unusual in the restaurant. on business.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, Kevin has already told you about the great food we had to eat last night. That's not the exception. That's the rule. Okay. At Shelley's back room.

But it's interesting. With a crowd like that last night, pounding down beers as much as we were, at least, the one thing I didn't want to talk about that I've never talked about before and it comes into play on a night like last night is bad. What? Bathrooms. Uh-huh.

I mean, a bathroom is important when you're in a bar, isn't it? Yes, it's very important. What are you going to, as Shelley says, I use the bathroom last night. Very nice bathrooms. Are you going to compare them to that place down south that you went to just so you could see how clean the bathrooms were? What's the name of that place? Bucky. Buckees.

Does it have Buckees' bathroom quality? It's not quite a, it's not quite Bucky's quality. Okay. But here's the important thing. What? Look, it's 10 o'clock at night and, and, you know, you're on your fifth beer, you're not particularly looking for a place where you can eat off the floor. No.

Okay. No. That's Bucky's. Yeah. Okay. Shelly has what you eat. Buckees, you bring the beers into the bathroom, you set up a table, and you drink in there. Five bathrooms.

That's a lot of bathrooms for one bar. Is there five in there? Really? Wow, that is a lot of bathrooms for one bar. Yes, it is. Yeah. And I think that is one of the many great things about Shelly's backroom. Okay.

So when you go to Shelly's and you have a great meal and you're drinking one of their great draft beers, mine was Sierra Nevada last night, you'll have no problem finding a bathroom to use. You want to find out more at Shelly's. Go to Shelly's bar. Backroom.com. I mean, it's custom blend burgers. It's a mix of brisket and chuck and bathrooms. I mean, throwing the cigars and that's what you got with shells or shellies. As many people know it by.

All right. So we, I saved some stuff for you that I was going to talk about on yesterday's show, but I thought I would save it for you. Sometimes we forget, you know, when Tuesday comes around some of the stories from over the weekend. But did you see that Shirm Lewis passed away? The bingo caller who replaced Jim Zorn as the play caller back in 2009. 83 years old, Shirm Lewis was. 34 years as a football coach.

Part of, you know, four different Super Bowl teams going back to the 49. Niners and the Packers teams he was a part of. But will you ever forget when Jim Zorn was forced to comply as Dan Snyder hired Sherm Lewis, who was calling bingo in a senior home in Michigan and driving meals for wheels. And he came five years out of retirement to call place to try to get Jim Zorn to quit. we were with Zorn all of those weeks too. You know, what's funny, what's sad is that Sherm Lewis had a very bad, great career.

Yeah, part of four Super Bowl teams. Yeah. And should be celebrated. But like Dan Snyder did so many times, you know, he and his minions turned something good into a joke. You know, there's a lot of people. out there in Washington area, that Sherm Lewis will always be known as the bingo

caller. Yeah. And that's unfortunate, and that speaks to the poison. The poison that Dan Snyder would spread. You know, anything that they came in contact with. Well, do you feel badly talking about him in the wake of his

passing as a bingo caller? Yes, I do. Okay. It sounds like you feel like this might be a little bit distasteful. No. No, I don't think it's distasteful. You can't ignore. We didn't do it. Okay. It seemed like you were having an issue maybe

with us talking about it. No. Okay. No, we're not the ones who came up who told reports. It was Vinny, right? Yeah, I mean, I think Dan said, you know, make him quit. Do whatever you have to do to make him quit so we can get him out of here and we don't have to pay him. Of course,

he was never going to quit. His wife would have beaten him had he quit because he had never made that much money in his life. So he was going to comply, as he said, and he was going to stick it out. But the best, well, there was so much that was great about those days. But when Vinny held the press conference to talk about Sherm Lewis, he said, I'm not sure what he's been doing, but his son is coaching at Eastern Michigan. That's all he knew about what Sherm Lewis had been doing.

I don't even know how they went about getting Sherm Lewis. but Sherm Lewis came out of retirement. He had retired five years earlier, and he was calling Bingo Games in a senior place, and somewhere in Michigan, and he came down, and he called plays for the rest of that season, and Jim Zorn got so bored. He hung out with us in our studio when we were out there.

It really was. It's one of the biggest examples of what a dysfunctional mess, the team was then. And, you know, it has a humorous tone to it. But, uh, Jesus. I mean, my God. He deserved better than that. Zorn deserved better than that.

They all deserve better than what they got from Dan Snyder. You don't, you don't want to talk about Shirm Lewis. You could have told me that before. You just seem very uncomfortable talking about Shirm Lewis's days in Washington. They weren't very memorable other than the fact that where he came from. This was there's a guy on

X who follows me called Disco. Do you know him? I think so. Okay. He's pretty active commanders fan. Okay. And he basically blamed me and many others that

followed for turning this man into a parody, minimizing his accomplishments as a coach. I was the one. Oh, shut up. Meeting the parade about the bingo. Well, that's my point here. It's like it seemed like you were actually,

you wanted to dial back the conversation about Shirm Lewis being brought in as an offensive consultant in hopes that Jim Zorn would quit, and he had been a bingo caller and a Meals on Wheels driver. That's not a criticism of him. It's a criticism of the clown show that was going on. I mean, come on, man. Great, great life, 83 years old, incredibly successful as a coach,

part of four Super Bowl winning teams. And, oh, by the way, for us, he was a bingo caller that got called from a bingo game to call plays in the NFL five years after he had retired. Oh, geez, people. Come on. I'm not responding to this because I believe I had something to do. do with it. Okay. Well, you didn't. I'm responding to it because it just, it, it, it just reminded me about how, you know, this is, this, this is a sentence now. It is obituary, at least in Washington.

It's not going to be in his obituary. It's reminded me of the poison. His actual obituary will not include anything about him being hauled out of, Washington. Yeah. Well, we're not writing his obituary. Is there an obituary? for Shirm Lewis in the Post that's different than the one that appeared in his hometown or other newspapers? I doubt bingo caller is in there. I don't think the posts write till biturries anymore. Well, I don't know what they do anymore. Yeah, that season was really, I mean, that season 2009, you know, it started with, because we had the Zorn show every Tuesday in our studio at Redskins Park. And when they beat the Rams.

in week two like nine to seven and I asked him before they faced Detroit who hadn't won in like a year and a half if he thought it was a must win game to keep his job. Do you remember how, I mean, he wanted to punch me right there. God, he was pissed. And we had never really seen him pissed, you know?

He just did not understand where that was coming from. And I had to explain to him, I think it was on the air. I said, look, I mean, we've been around here a lot longer than you have. So this is, you know, this is a reaction to your boss, the owner, and what we think he might be thinking about. It didn't, I don't think it had occurred to Coach Zorn. They had just won a game. Of course, they lost the next week against Detroit.

And then it was, you know, a couple of weeks later that they went to a Michigan bingo hall and brought in a former NFL coach to call plays. Yeah, what a joke. That season, you know, we had all the beauties that year, the 45 to 12 swinging gate game against the Giants late in the year. 17, nothing lost to the Cowboys, you know, on a Sunday night game or Monday night game. And they had just hired Bruce Allen, and we were like, okay, he had fired. Remember, Vinny got fired at the end of that year before the year even finished. and they hired Bruce Allen.

But it was the year before in 2008 that he wanted to hire Shanahan then, but Shanahan wasn't ready to take the gig. Okay. I wanted to share with you if you haven't seen this and with the listeners. This Eli Manning, Bussing with the Boys podcast appearance, Bustin with the Boys is Will Compton and Taylor Luan. Wilcompton played here, where Eli finally fessed up as to why he didn't want to play for the Chargers when they had the number one pick in the 2004 draft.

And, you know, leading up to that draft, there was the talk that Eli and Eli's camp, Agent Tom Condon, told the Spanos family, told A.J. Smith, told Marty Schottenheimer, he's not going to play for you. He'll put his name back into the draft now. next year. If you pick him, they picked him anyway. Then they ended up trading him to the Giants when they realized he was serious. By the way, that trade worked out pretty well for everybody because the Chargers ended up with Philip Rivers and Sean Merriman, among others. And the Giants obviously won two Super Bowls with Eli at the helm. But he talked about, for the first time in detail, why he didn't want to play.

for the Chargers. And he said that the lead-up to the 2004 draft, the Chargers sent every top person in their organization to New Orleans, where Eli was living with his, you know, the family, the Mannings were there. Marty Schottenheimer was the head coach. The GM was A.J. Smith. The Spanos family had owned the team for years at that point, I think.

And they all descended upon New Orleans to meet with Eli. and they went out to dinner and Eli said that's where it really started. He said, I just didn't feel like they were the most committed team to winning at the time. Marty Schottenheimer was the head coach. He was awesome. I had great respect for him. But over the course of the night, the organization came off as in total disarray and dysfunctional. Quote, they came to work me out in New Orleans.

We went to dinner and there was just friction. between the head coach general manager, the owners. They were all yelling, kind of like fighting. We're at a Marriott restaurant, speaking of Marriott. Schotenheimer's mad. He's like, we're in New Orleans and we're eating at a Marriott. And Eli said, Marty was pissed. They were bickering.

It just didn't seem like there was a lot of agreement on things, and they didn't seem like they were committed to building a winning franchise at that moment. and that's when he decided, I'm not going to play for this group. Remember, if you don't know this, AJ Smith and Marty Schottenheimer hated each other. Like literally, it was one of the worst relationships between head coach and general manager of all time. I mean, Marty got fired after going 14 and 2 as the Chargers coach when they lost a divisional round playoff game to the Patriots. But yeah, so that was it. But here was the other thing, Tommy.

Eli cleared up what has been a long-running misunderstanding, he says, which is the idea that Archie, his father, was behind all of this. And he said, Archie tried to talk me out of. My dad tried to talk me out of doing this. He didn't want me to do it. But ultimately, I was dead set against playing there, and they were very supportive of me. He said, my dad didn't like the idea, but he came to my defense and supported me after everything started to go down. Afterwards, he took the brunt of the criticism because he came to my defense, and people were saying,

oh, you played in New Orleans all those years you didn't win, so you're trying to dictate where your son's going. and he just kind of bit his tongue. This is what Eli wants to do, he said. I support him. And he did some media to save me from taking the hits, closed quote. Yeah, I mean, I think I always felt like Archie and the family were behind it somehow. Like he didn't like the Chargers organization. He didn't like A.J. Smith or he didn't like the Spano's fan.

He didn't like the Spano family. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, so there you go. That's interesting. There's the story on that particular saga. There's a famous picture of Eli standing up next to Paul Taggliabu, the commissioner at the time with his mom and dad holding up a Chargers jersey. And he looks like he's about to vomit, Eli does.

And the mother after the trade said, well, I guess we're not going to need. this because I guess you get to take home that jersey, you know, that says number one. And Archie said, yeah, you know, let's just hold on to that for a rainy day. It might be a good story. So they still own that Chargers jersey. I'm sure they could probably get something for it if they needed the money. And the Chargers no longer playing San Diego. And they no longer playing San Diego. And what I did hear is that it's very possible that they're going to donate that jersey to, the Cigars and Curve Ball's auction in 2027. That would be good.

Yeah, that would be a great item. I mean, we need Eli to sign it, but I think we should get Archie to sign it, too. It's not quite an autographed baseball from Blake Trinan, but it's not bad. Yeah. Speaking of auction items, we didn't even talk about it. You know, every year you offer up a, you know, sit-in on the, you know, sit-in on the, recording of the podcast with the two of us on a Tuesday or Thursday, and it was a big selling item so much so that we gave away two of them last night. It was the hit of the auction. I'm shocked,

aren't you? A ticket we gave away. Oh, that was the most activity 10x over anything we've ever had for that auction item, the in-studio visit, which was very nice. But I do remember years. and we've been giving away this item for not just your event, but other events in town, you know, 16, 17 years, you know, going back to when the actual in-studio visit would happen at the radio station. And I think for some of the, you know, auctions that we gave it away, there was like, you know, essentially crickets for the item. But I'm glad it worked out last night and we'll do two of them.

I wanted to finish up the show with just the Nats and what happened last night. The Nats gave up 10 runs in the top of the 12th and lost to the Mets, 16 to 7. Those 10 runs in an extra inning are tied for the most since 1919, when the Cincinnati Reds scored 10 in the top of the 13th in a win over the Brooklyn Dodgers. Do you remember that game? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

I was there for that game. They have a bullpen problem. They've got a pitching problem in general, but they have a major bullpen problem. But, man, can they score? They are the leading scoring team in the bigs, and they are also the team that has given up the most runs in the big leagues.

Now, I might want to point out to you, those Cincinnati Reds that gave up all those runs. Yeah. They wound up winning the World Series here. Wow. The 1919... You know what? Yeah. The Black Sox scans.

I was going to say that's the Black Sox. Right. Through games in the World Series. There you go. And a hundred years later, you know who won the World Series? The Washington National. They did. Yes.

All right. You got anything else? Well, yeah, I just wanted to say, because I left D.C. this morning, late this morning after I slept in, I got a chance to listen to your show on the way up. I want to tell you, the conversation you had with Bill Barnwell from ESPN, I'm telling you people, you should go back and listen to it. I would bet a lot of money that you won't find a conversation as smart about the NFL in this town as that one was. I really enjoyed it.

That's actually surprising to me that you really enjoyed that. I'm not saying that I don't think that it was good because I do think every time I have Bill on, I think he's really good. I think he's smart and I like having him on the show. and I know he likes coming on my show. But usually a lot of that kind of stuff, because we were talking about, you know, the 13 personnel, you know, move last year for a lot of teams, the Rams in particular,

and how he could see it becoming a bigger part of the NFL in the upcoming season. You usually don't like that kind of conversation. I guess because I learned something. Okay. You know, and I always enjoy learning. Uh-huh. And I thought it was.

great. Well, thank you. Yeah, he's, you know, I remember years ago when he started to write and the stories were so long. Like, he's the opposite of you. Tommy's got, you know, 15 and 20 word columns. Now, he finds two or three words that are really good. So they're worth reading. But remember, I remember when he first started at ESPN.com and I'm like, man, this guy, right. and it's forever and forever, but I was always like, but it's really always kind of interesting and it's good. And, you know, Scott told me, I don't know, this is now five, six, seven years ago. Scott's like, you know, I'm not into, you know, I don't read Bill start to finish,

but I love having him on the show because he's just really smart. And like you said, you learn something. And I feel like every time we have Bill on, you know, there's something to learn. And the big takeaway yesterday is that the Rams, essentially a team that never ran three tight ends since the moment Sean McVeigh arrived. Tried it when they lost Puka Nakua in October before a game in London against Jacksonville. And it was so wildly successful in a 35 to 7 win over Jacksonville, they ran it pretty much more than anybody did the rest of the NFL season to great success.

13 personnel, and I talked about it yesterday, is one back, three tight ends. You know, whenever you hear those numbers, 12 personnel, 11 personnel, the first number is running backs, the second number is tight ends, and then you can come to the conclusion on what the fourth number is. So 13 personnel is one back, three tight ends, one receiver. 11 personnel is one back, one tight end, three receivers. and three tight ends is something that I think we might see Washington in a lot next year. And I keep going back and I mention this to him. Ben Sinit was described as Kyle Uscheck, the fullback from San Francisco,

when he got picked by Adam Peters in the 2024 draft. Well, now if the offense is what we think it's going to be under David Blow, there's more use for a fullback. There's actually a spot for a fullback. That would be interesting if we saw, you know, Ben Senate, number 82, lining up as a fullback in the backfield this year. I think we're going to see a lot of cool stuff this year. I think Blow, if he's more Ben Johnson than even, you know,

Kevin O'Connell, we're going to see a lot of creative stuff. It'll be fun. All right. What else? That's all I got for you today, boss. You're dragging a little bit, aren't you? Are you going to take a nap? What are you going to do?

Actually, I've got to go out to dinner tonight, too. Where are you going? Where are you going? Somewhere in Baltimore. You've got to go all the way to Baltimore for dinner. I have dinner with my son. Oh, good. All right.

All right, well, I'll talk to you on Thursday. Thank you. Okay, boss.