The Kevin Sheehan Show - Clinton, Tanya, & NFL Week 1

Episode Date: September 8, 2021

Kevin talked about Clinton Portis' plea, Tanya Snyder's first interview, and he brought on Erich Zimny/VP of Racing & Sports-Hollywood Casino to talk NFL Props, NFL Week 1, and College Week 2. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. When are we going to get to the games and stop talking about names? I guess I'm going to do it today. I have to, based on the Tanya Snyder interview with Adam Schaefter.

Good afternoon, good evening, whenever you're listening to this podcast. Good morning. to it tomorrow morning. Eric Zimney, who runs the Hollywood Casino Sportsbook and Racebook, is going to be our guest. We'll go over some, you know, sort of some preseason NFL exposure for him. You know, we're the public's coming in on various teams and totals. And then we'll focus in on week two of the college season and week one of the pro season. We'll do that at the end of the show. I'm going to save some of the pick. for this season for tomorrow's show and Friday show.

And I'll get to the Tanya Snyder stuff here momentarily. But I want to start with this story about Clinton Portis, which many of you asked whether or not I was going to comment on, and I am. For those that are unfamiliar with the Portis story, Portis was among three former NFL players who pled guilty for their roles in a nationwide scheme to defraud a health care program for retired.

NFL players. That per the U.S. Justice Department yesterday. Portis, who's now 40 years old, faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison. He's scheduled to be sentenced on January 6th. The alleged scheme targeted the Gene Upshaw NFL player health and reimbursement account plan, which was set up in 2006 to help retired players cover medical expenses. According to documents, court documents, Portis caused the submission of false and fraudulent claims to the plan on his behalf over a two-month period, obtaining $99,264 in benefits for medical equipment that was not actually provided. Both Portis and Tamerick Vanover, a former NFL-wide receiver, agreed as part of the plea to pay full restitution to the Upshaw plan.

So that is where it is right now. Sentencing is on January 6th. Let me just tell you, I talked to a couple of attorneys late yesterday after I heard this, and I'm like, what is the possibility based on this that he's actually going to go to jail? And both of them actually said there's a pretty good chance that he will walk with just a significant fine in probation. But who knows? It's a very serious offense. this health care program for veteran NFL players who have lots of health issues

well after their career, as we know, to essentially defraud that fund is obviously a serious situation. I'm going to say two things here. Number one is this, if you didn't follow the case closely, I wanted to add, that the trial of Portis on these federal fraud charges resulted actually the original trial in a hung jury. The verdict revealed that jurors were deadlocked on all counts specific to Portis. A note from the jurors to the presiding judge indicated that the jurors were very hung up on Portis and that tempers were running hot on the Portis verdict. the jurors determined that a verdict could not be reached, hence the hung jury, and then as a follow-up

rather than going back to court for this, obviously Clinton's attorneys felt like it made sense for him to plead guilty to the charges that he pled guilty to. I don't know anything other than what I just read to you, and so I can't, you know, I can't speak to whether or not this was something that he pled to because he felt like when sentencing came around, the plea would minimize the punishment and that it was too high risk to go back to court. I can't speak to any of that. The only thing I can speak to is this, and that is personal experience with Clinton Portis. I've had a chance to work with Clinton many times over the years. I've had Clinton on this podcasts and on the radio show many times over the years. You know, you only know somebody professionally.

I don't know Clinton well personally, but we have definitely had a professional relationship with not just sort of on-air comfort and rapport, if you will, but a real pleasant conversation always with him. And, you know, not every former player is easy to work with. I've been very lucky working with, you know, closely with John Riggins, Doc Walker, Chris Cooley, incredible, you know, people, incredible relationships. And I think, you know, more than anything, just easy people with good senses of humor. And, you know, in most cases, you know, very little ego. Clinton always struck me, even though I didn't work on a day-to-day basis with Clinton,

we did a lot of things over the years. Clinton, too, was so easy to work with. He was such a kind person, great sense of humor, and very, from my standpoint, accountable and responsible. And I'm not going to name names, but there have been many former players that haven't been that easy, that haven't been reliable. You call them to come on, and they're like, yeah, man, I'll come on, and then they don't post. Or you have to do some sort of an event where they're supposed to be a guest, and they show up 30 minutes late, as, you know, the guests are already. leaving. Portis was the opposite of that, and I've been very fortunate. Almost everybody that I've worked with has been very easy. Portis was totally always responsible, accountable in my personal

experience, which is what I can speak to. And I always, and I have always enjoyed my conversations, both professionally and personally with Clinton. So I am wishing him the best. At the same time, I recognize these charges and what he pled to is very serious. And it impacted the lives of many retired NFL players who have many health issues and need those benefits. So I am aware of that. Okay. Let's get to the Tanya Snyder situation. And we'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

So Tanya Snyder currently is the co-CEO of your Washington football team. She was named co-CEO on June 29th. That was two days prior to the NFL using the findings of the Beth Wilkinson investigation of the franchise's culture of harassment and misogyny to fine the team $10 million and publicly denounce the franchise declaring in a press release, quote, based on Wilkinson's review, the commissioner concluded that for many years the workplace environment at the Washington football team, both generally and particularly, for women was highly unprofessional. Bullying and intimidation frequently took place, and many described the culture as one of fear, and numerous female employees reported having experienced sexual harassment and a general lack of respect in the workplace. Ownership and senior management paid little or no attention to these issues. In some instances, senior executives engaged in inappropriate conduct themselves, including the use of demeaning language and

public embarrassment. This set the tone for the organization and led to key executives believing that disrespectful behavior and more serious misconduct was acceptable in the workplace. It went on and on. You remember that statement, you know, back on July 1st, even though the actual punishment, which resulted in a $10 million fine of the organization, was very much a wrist slap. We never got to the bottom as a customer base of this football team or of the NFL to the bottom of Beth Wilkinson's investigation and what she really found in great detail. And I still believe that there is, you know, a belief that something happened on that plane back in 2009 coming from the country music awards in Vegas back to D.C. on Snyder's private plane. I still think there's a story there,

but there's a shitload of confidentiality because it was settled around what happened on that plane. Anyway, you know, the timing of Tanya's promotion from being the wife of the owner to co-CEO two days before the NFL fined the team $10 million in what was, again, a total risk slap of the organization, the timing seemed fishy to say the least, especially considering that the announcement also indicated that Tanya would be taking over. all of the day-to-day responsibilities. I get it why most people think it's super fishy and that Dan's actually right now in the midst of serving some sort of quasi-sus suspension.

I don't believe that to be true. Again, the timing of it reeks, I get it, but he was so upset that it got reported that way, that he was on this, you know, quiet suspension from the league, that he had his PR people and attorneys that week. Tommy told the story, reach out to columnists and reporters to explain that not only was he not suspended in any former fashion, but that the fine, the $10 million fine of him, it was a fine of the team. As we said at the time, it was just another example of, you know, hey, this wasn't our fault. This was somebody else's fault. Anyway, Tanya is the co-CEO. She hasn't done any media that I can remember in the past.

You know, and by the way, to be fair to her, she's more than just the wife of the owner. She's been very active in the team's charitable foundations and efforts. And she was the person responsible for that breast cancer awareness month in the NFL, the Think Pink campaign. That was Tanya. She was the pioneer. She was the entrepreneur. She was the creator. She spearheaded all of that. First locally in the campaign. then for the league. But with all of that as context and reminders, too many of you, she did her first interview as co-CEO with Adam Schefter on Adam Schefter's podcast. Not just her first interview as co-CEO, I think the first interview she's ever done. And I wanted to play

some of what she said, and then drill down on it a little bit. There are three things that I want to drill down on a little bit. Takeaways, if you will, from the interview with Schefter on Schefter's podcast. And yes, I understand there's a game on Sunday, and I'd much rather be talking about games than names, but this is typical of this franchise. And, you know, this was her first ever interview, and there's significant interest in things like the new name and other things, which I actually think there was a bigger takeaway from this interview than the name stuff, which turned out to be pretty confusing. I'll get to that in a moment.

But all of these things are peaks behind the curtain of the minds and hearts that are leading this franchise. But I did want to say this before I get to my three takeaways from this interview. She's not the greatest communicator of all time, but as I said on race, this morning, she's Winston Churchill compared to her husband. She also comes off as likable, which for this organization is important right now. Very few of the faces and voices in this organization have been anything but likable for 21 years. They've been arrogant, they've been off-putting, they've been borderline limited intellectually. You know, there's a saying in business that if your customers like you, they'll forgive you more easily. You know, the Cubs were

lovable losers. Washington's been anything but a lovable loser for a long period of time, but customers will put up with occasional mistakes if they like you. Nobody has liked anybody in this organization for two plus decades. So, you know, that's one of the reasons that many of the customers, many of the fans have left en masse. She's much more likable than her husband, much more. It's a pretty low bar, I understand that. But there is something about her that is clearly more appealing than him or Bruce Allen as the face of the franchise. And look, Dan's been a recluse. He hasn't been the face of the voice of the franchise for a decade plus.

He's been the destructor of the franchise, but not the face of it. So three things. Number one is this, and I'm going to be quick on this. Adam Schaefter, I consider Adam to be a professional friend. Adam appeared on my radio show with Tommy and with Cooley seven-plus. years every week. He was a paid guest. We had great conversations with Adam over the years. Adam is the NFL reporter. Make no mistake. I mean, I don't know how many Twitter followers he has now, but Adam gets it right more often than anybody, and he is the go-to for most NFL fans when

it comes to information. With that said, let me be clear about this. If you listen to this interview, she says multiple times how much she enjoys it, how much she appreciates the way he's handling it. referred to it as, you know, thanking him for providing a safe space for her first interview in this kind of a sit-down format. This was a soft landing, as we call it in the trade. Adam's a good interviewer. Adam, obviously, is phenomenal at what he does. And there were a couple of moments, including one of the two that I'm going to play for you, where I think he did a pretty good job and following up. But this was soft landing material for Tanya Snyder. You know, those of us that work in this market and those of you out there who are fans of the team and have lived the day-to-day drama

for years upon years, we know what questions to ask and how to respond to things that are said, much more so than somebody who is a national reporter, and Adam's super plugged in. But this was a soft landing. It was for Tanya. She admitted it for all intents and purposes. And look, Adam in this first interview with her, you could tell she was a little bit nervous

and certainly I think that there was some trepidation in doing this. So I think he did his best to make her feel as comfortable as she could feel. And I understand that challenge that he had. But again, soft landing. That's number one. Number two was this. And the stories moved even further this morning with a tweet and a supposed clarification on this, what she said yesterday when she was asked about the name. You'll hear the setup for it and then you'll hear Adam ask her and get her into a conversation about the team. new name. And so basically you're the back of quarterback who comes off the bench. You got the help of Ron Rivera, a great linebacker, now a head coach. You got Jason Wright coming in as the president.

You got reinforcements all around you. And you mentioned about being excited about where this organization is headed. So where is the organization headed, Tanya? To golden standards, to the best. I would love to say in our goal, of course, is to be the best franchise in the NFL. and we are in, you know, we're in the nation's capital and we are going to, you know, we have so many opportunities and new things going on right now. We're 90 years this next year as a franchise. And we are, you know, the transition into 20, 21, 22, you know, we have a new, a new name coming up. What is that? Can you reveal that right here, Tanya? What's the name we choosing? What's the deal? Is it going to be red hogs?

Is it going to be defenders? Is it going to be red what are we going to have here? We're down to three. Are we down to three? We are down to three. Can we say the three that we're down to? No. I heard the eight.

We had the armada, the presidents, the brigade, the red hogs, the commanders, the red wolves, the defenders, the red wolves, the defenders, and WFT. I think those are the candidates, right? That's right. Has that been said? That's been said, yes. But we haven't we haven't whittled down the list, Tanya, to three. So if you want to whittle down the list to even a few more, go right ahead. Well, I would love to at the right time, Adam, okay?

And I'll tell you, I will let you know. And if since you're being so nice today and helping me in this transition, I will make a commitment to you that when we have an opportunity to, you know, we've chosen an amazing organization to, you know, to help us with the process. It's been handled extremely professional. And I've looked at each and every, I mean, 42,000. I've looked at each and every name, just making sure that we did not miss a great one. And, you know, and there were so many different reasons. So many names fell out to, you know, legal. And we looked, we vetted everything, the organization, the agency did. So we are looking.

at the rollout date, you know, relatively soon and we just have to do the timing, you know, that with merchandise and so many other things that are important. Okay. Let me net it out on this name thing, for starters. And then I want to get to a second, and I think a more important cut, not extremely important and not extremely surprising, but to me, a little bit more interesting than the name stuff. I've said this for a month and a half. I had a source a month, month and a half ago, maybe six weeks, seven weeks ago. Tell me, they are down to the final name. They have their name. They have three finalists, which she referred to and she confirmed, and that making the brand video confirmed. But the three

finalists really are just a plan A, which is their number one choice, and it is their choice. And then they've got a plan B and a plan C in the event that vetting plan A and their number one choice somehow falls apart. You know, somehow, and as I've mentioned here recently, they find out in November that the name that they selected and in 1877 meant something very insensitive with some culture. You know, they're vetting it out as best as they can, but they want to make sure, and they're not going to announce it until early 20. 22 to sync up with the 90-year anniversary of the team.

But they have their name. I've said that for a month and a half. I have a very solid source on that. And I also have a solid source that tells me that the name is not going to be city-centric, meaning it's not going to be Washington football team. It's not going to be Washington FC. It's not going to be FC Washington. So somebody tweeted me earlier today and said,

Oh, Sheehan. Hold on. I'm going to find the tweet here. Where is it? It basically was, Sheehan, you're telling us what it isn't. Why won't you tell us what it is? Well, you know, I don't know what it is. If I knew what it was, do you think I'd bury the lead?

I was told that it wasn't WFT and it wasn't city-centric. It wasn't going to be FC Washington or Washington, see, but I was told they have their number one choice. And that, you know, they do have a plan B and a plan C in the event that somehow, some way, something crops up, you know, something pops up that they weren't expecting. But, you know, if I knew what it was, that would be my lead. I would have told you that. I don't know what it is. I just know what it isn't. And I know they have it. That's number one. Number two, look, I, um, this, this organization's right hand never knows with the left hand is doing, and it doesn't seem that it's gotten much better. Jason Wright, you know, a month ago

when the making of the brand, you know, popped up all of these different names, and CBSSports.com said they're down to their final eight. They've got three, but it's going to come from this list of eight. And Jason Wright said, no, that's not true. That's not the actual list of eight. And then what she said with Adam Schaefter was confirming, I guess, even though I think there was a little bit of maybe she didn't understand what she was confirming or maybe she didn't even know what the right answer was. I don't know. You know, there were nerves with her during this interview and understandably so.

I don't even know if we got exactly what the answer was intended to be from her. But if you took it literally, she did confirm that that was the list of eight. and that the three came from that eight. I just don't know that she knew exactly what she was answering or perhaps didn't even know what the right answer was. Whatever. The bigger issue here is confusion, and then this morning Adam Schefter puts out a tweet,

and he writes, a Washington football team spokesperson said this morning that the list of eight names is a selection of names that were highlighted and they're making the brand video, not a final list of potential name candidates, which is exactly what Jason Wright said a month ago, but what she appeared to contradict in this thing. Look, I don't know.

I don't really care. Like, the eight's been whittled down to three, which has been whittled down to one. Who cares what the eight were other than it gives you an opportunity to try to guess what the one is? And maybe some of the names that the final three and the final one came from are on that list. It's not Washington football team.

I can tell you that. But, you know, typical of this organization, they just don't communicate well. They don't really know what one is doing versus the other. It's always sort of a comedy show. And if it weren't kind of funny, it'd be another, you know, point in which we say pathetic. The Schefter tweet was essentially trying to clarify confusion with more confusion. Here's my position on this. either tell us the name already now before the Chargers game or shut the fuck up until the season's over.

Okay? We're on the brink of an NFL season. It's time to shift the focus from names to games, period. If they don't understand that the winning off the field hasn't worked for them over the years, and if the new people there don't understand how aggravating and annoying it is with, with games about to be played, that they're teasing and attempting to be provocative, but really what they probably are, are completely discombobulated in their communication. It's just stop.

Either give us the goddamn name or be quiet and let us know in 2022, when the season's long over. Please have some professional and personal courtesy that your fan base, or what's left of it is now dialed in on winning on the field. Here's the other thing that she said that I wanted to comment on. Well, we welcome you to this setting and this podcast and for all the people out there to hear from Tanya Snyder to hear about who she is and some of the things that she's done. And you bring up the past year. And it has been a tumultuous year for your organization. The team was fined $10 million.

you took over the day-to-day operations of the team and became basically the foremost person in charge of the Washington football franchise. What has this whole year been like for you, Tanya? Well, it is, words for me to describe this year is very difficult. It's been one of the most difficult years. And mine, Dan, and I know my family's in our lives. But I think, you know, being on the other side of where we are and learning just a tremendous amount. And I, my style and my wish is to turn all of these into, you know, into blessings to make the most of, you know, where we are today. We're 100% owners.

And we're in a much stronger position to be able to make each and every, you know, change that we need to make. So for that, I'm very excited about. And it's, you know, it's hard. I get a lump in my throat. And it's a cross between a, I don't know, a crime show and a nightmare movie. But I'm here to tell you that today, you know, I know we are doing everything possible. And I think where we've ended up and where we're heading, I couldn't be more excited.

So for that, I think it's a blessing. When you talk about that lumping your throat, what does that come from? Well, I just think it's it's the pain that, you know, from our family, from my children. And, you know, just a lot of the tough times, you know, that we've gone through. And just, as you know, the media, it's, it is what it is. Everybody's going to say whatever. And I guess when you have a void and you don't have your voice out there, People can say whatever. And that has been the case. So, and that's what I mean.

So when you get a chance to address the past year, everything you've been through and not have your voice, what is the biggest thing that you can say to people about the past year? Because it seems like you're tiptoeing around what's bothering you, what gave you that lump in your throat. And I'm just curious for the people listening to understand what causes that, what makes it such a difficult year? why do you get to lump in your throat? What is that, Tanya? Well, I mean, for me, it's the thing that Dan and I sitting side by side through this last year and kind of looking at each other and close to a year ago, you know, he's looking at me and how I'm handling things and vice versa. I had a kind of a, had a mom-a-bear instinct that just like a lightning bolt that went up through my body. And, you know, you.

you know, I think we could have very easily ran away and been fine and sailed away. And I think a few people have even asked us that and being, you know, drinking peanut colitis. But that's not, that's not who we are. That's not what I want to teach my kids. And that is, and that is one thing that I'll tell you gives me the strength to sit here today and to talk to you with conviction to know that, you know, what we're doing right now and where we are is where we should be in the best place possible. And it's truly with love and passion for the NFL and Washington football team. When you heard some of these things that came out about your franchise, very unflattering, Tanya, very unflattering. What was your reaction to everything?

Well, I mean, horrified, you know, needless. to say horrifying. And I tried to stop reading it all because it just, it got, um, became too much and too ridiculous. Um, but where it puts me is, is wanting to dig my heels in stronger and get off the bench, stand up, get active and just go into action mode. And that's exactly what I've done. Uh, what's the last year been like? Well, uh, she said it's been very difficult, one of the most difficult years for Dan, their kids, their family's lives. I'm sure it has been. She also said a couple of things that I'm going to be constructively critical about. I did want to say this, though. There was a couple of parts during this interview where you could tell that she was very

protective of her children in particular, all of whom are grown. She's got one, her youngest son in college, the two daughters, I guess, are older and out of college. And she referred to being empty nesters at this point. And, you know, I over the years have heard from, you know, teachers and that I know and coaches that I know. And I've always heard across the board how great the kids are, the Snyder kids. And I've heard much more about the son than I have the daughters over the years. Coolly loves the son. But I had heard from so many people, great kid, great kids. So obviously, you know, parenting and being parents is a pretty top-level priority for most of us, the priority for most of us. So somebody, or perhaps both of them, have done it pretty well, according to most people.

She was feisty in that she did say, you know, as you heard, you know, they could have sailed away, and they could have, and there would have been a parade held, let's be honest, had they sailed away and sold the team. But she, like her husband, you can tell. And I think it's one of the reasons he's gotten to the point where he's gotten to. You know, they are relentlessly competitive people and they're not quitters. And they don't want to teach their kids to be quitters. But anyway, I can appreciate that and respect that. However, with that said, you know, per usual, there wasn't any acknowledgement, any responsibility taken,

any accountability for what's happened over the last year. You know, when she refers to this being very difficult, one of the most difficult years for their family, what about the 42 women that the Post had? You know, this, as I've mentioned many times in the past, this wasn't a one, you know, off he said, she said situation. 42 women. The NFL with their statement said this was the culture

that was created 20 years. of this culture. You know, we've heard him explain, oh, that was much in the past, and he was distant and wasn't around the last 10 years, et cetera, et cetera. Well, what in the last 10 years they were talking about anyway? It was when you were actually in charge. But, you know, the uniform response over the years has been to basically, you know, push the blame elsewhere. It's never been his fault. It's never been their fault. She referred to being, we're now 100% owners, were in a much stronger position to make each and every change we need to make. Well, that's obviously a slight at the three minority owners, Fred Smith, Bob Rothman, and Dwight Schar.

Huh? It doesn't matter whether or not you're 100% owners. Now, you've been majority owners and majority voting rights holders forever. You could do whatever you wanted to do. They had no say in the organization. You know, Dan and family have been majority owners and majority. voting rights, if not 100% voting rights, since they purchased the franchise. You know, that is another, you know, sort of default for the Snyders. Well, it wasn't us, you know, it was our

minority shareholders. She took a shot at the media. She said the accusations are horrifying, but she stopped reading about it because they became too ridiculous some of the allegations. Now, I would say that maybe, and give her the benefit of the doubt, that she's being specific to the Jeffrey Epstein stuff that we now believe that Dwight Schar and maybe even Bruce Allen were behind. And, you know, they have every right to be incensed over that stuff. That was a smear campaign that was based on lies. But the post stories and the allegations and what the league said in their wrist slap statement, you know, that's real. And some acknowledgement of that, I think would have made this a little bit more tasteful anyway, palatable.

But again, that is what they have done. It's never been them. It's always been others. The minority shareholders. It was Bruce Allen. It was Jay Gruden. It was Mike Shanahan. It's always been somebody else.

I know they've had a difficult year. I can only imagine what it's been like to have been one of his children. And I have empathy, great empathy for that, sympathy for that, for the plight of those kids. And being, you know, in a situation where a beloved product, a beloved franchise, you know, a real institution in this town, has been obliterated over the last two decades by one person more than anybody else. at some point though, at some point, the only way all of us are ever going to get back to close to where it was 20-something years ago, where it was an upstanding marquee winning franchise is for leadership to stop blaming everybody else and take some goddamn responsibility for what's happened here. And when I, you know, hear this stuff, and again, I know, I know she was nervous. and this is the first time she's done this,

and I think she did well for the most part. Really, I have, I definitely could sense that this was an anxiety situation for, obviously, she handled it much better than her husband's handled some of this stuff. Happy Thanksgiving. So, you know, some things could have been intended

to have been expressed and weren't. So, again, and I think some of the benefit of the doubt I would give her is that they're pissed off about the Dwight Shepard. Shar and Bruce Allen and the Indian media company and the smear campaign. I get that. I get that. But not one mention, not one of the 42 women, of the toxic culture, of the misogyny, of the bullying, all of the things that the league outlined in their statement, not one. And when you say 100% owners now and you take a shot at the media and you call certain allegations ridiculous,

you're not taking accountability. It's his move. It's his move. It's from their playbook. And maybe they don't believe any of these women. You know, I was thinking about that too. Maybe it's possible they don't believe the allegations of these women. But the league believes something happened. Their statement was much harsher than the punishment itself. So maybe words aren't, you know, as meaningful as actions. And the actions were very much a wrist slap. but perhaps they believe all of its bullshit, and perhaps they really do believe, and maybe they're right,

that none of this has been their fault. But at some point, the buck stops with the top guy and the top family, and it's been them. And there wasn't any mention of those women. She did say horrifying, but it was more about what her and her family have been through, and what the media has put them through, and what the minority shareholders put them through

and how ridiculous some of the allegations were. And you know what? Some of those allegations were inaccurate, false, and ridiculous. But what I heard was somebody who's more likable, somebody who is a better face, clearly, in voice of leadership for this franchise than her husband by a long shot, by miles. But I also heard somebody who, like her husband, really just doesn't see it the way everybody else does,

which is ultimately, you know, the people in charge are to blame when you have not one bad year, but 21 bad years. All right, when we come back, Eric Zimni from Hollywood Sportsbook in Casino will be our guest. We'll talk some football, some gambling with him. And again, all of my football picks will end up doing. tomorrow and Friday. Cooley will be on the show on Monday. Don't forget, subscribe to the show,

if you haven't already that really helps us. Rate us and review us. That helps us as well. And I do want to mention that this segment and the upcoming segment today are brought to you by my bookie. Bet the lock of the season tomorrow night. When any team scores between the Cowboys and the Bucks,

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you'll have 600. You should have another place to bet if you're already betting. Take the free money. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to receive your first deposit doubled. Get started with my bookie today. Bet anything anytime, anywhere with my bookie. We welcome on to the show. Eric Zimney. Eric has been on the show many times in the past. He's the VP of Racing and Sports Book Office. operations at Hollywood Casino, including the one in Charlestown, which is a great spot, great sports book, to go and watch games and to wager on games. And oh, by the way, to find a table or two in between games to sit down and play. It's a really good spot.

Eric is a sharp, you know, odds maker and book operator. And I loved our conversations and have loved our conversations. conversations in the past, but I wanted to start with something that you just told me before we started to record this interview. You're a big Georgia fan, and you were at the Georgia Clemson game on Saturday night. What was it like to be back into a stadium, a sold-out pack stadium, for a big event like that? It was awesome. I mean, you know, college football, half of the deal for me is kind of the pageantry, the pomp, the atmosphere of the game. And a game like that where it's two top five teams, and the crowd split about 50-50, but it was loud from the outset.

And, you know, one half of the stadium was loud at the end, fortunately the right half. But it just felt so cool to be able to go back to an event like that after, you know, I was trying to figure out the last football game I was at before that. You know, it probably had been, you know, close to two years. It just has me jazzed for football season. Last year was obviously so different. But, you know, being at that game this past weekend, it's got me. pumped. We'll get to the card on Saturday and Sunday, but I think that week two in college football is

always interesting because recent impressions sometimes can be very misleading. As an example, Washington lost to Montana, and yet they're catching less than a touchdown at the big house against Michigan. That seems a little fishy to me. And that is one of our bigger liabilities right now is actually Michigan, both money line and given the six and a half in that game. That's one game in college this weekend where it doesn't look like however many points out of people are going to take Michigan in that game. And you're right, you're right. I mean, people have that reason to be biased, seeing what Washington did this past week with kind of an inexcusable loss, really. But Michigan just lost its best receiver and catching six and a half. That's probably a pretty good

candidate for the smell test. It is. All right. What I wanted to do is I wanted to start with just the NFL season in sort of a macro prop, you know, preseason look. And then we'll look at the card on Sunday. But let's start with what you're seeing in terms of, you know, where maybe the public action is on totals, win totals, teams that the public's fallen in love with. And maybe in some cases, you know, where, you know, sharp monies come in on. What are going to be some of your big needs on some of the preseason NFL props? So a lot of Tampa money, both from a Super Bowl standpoint, NFC standpoint, and overwin total standpoint.

We actually, there's only six teams that we have a liability on for the Super Bowl as a right now, and you'd be surprised at some of them. You know, you would think, summarily the Chiefs would be one of them, but they're not. It's actually the six teams we have are Tampa, the Bengals, the Browns, the Cowboys, the Lions, and the Steelers. And I kind of get the Cowboys and the Steelers, those are public teams. There are a lot of fans are going to take money. But, you know, I was shocked.

Cincinnati? Exactly. There are our second biggest liability behind Tampa Bay right now for the Super Bowl. Well, in part, that's also right because the odds are long. So that means that what? Did you have a significant number of bets or just a couple of large bets? It was actually a bunch of smaller bets. You're right.

I mean, it is to a degree a function of the price, which, but, you know, at the same time, we actually, one of our other bigger liabilities is on them to win that division. I mean, it's over half a million bucks on the Bengals to win that division, which is our second largest NFL liability of all the bets right now. So it wasn't just people betting. I mean, they got bet down from 150 to 1 to 100 to 1. And the division, they got bet down from, I think, was 30 to 1 to 22 to 1. So people are playing them, and you're not going to move a number that much unless you're confident in the action you're getting.

So it leads me to believe that there are some people who legitimately like the Bengals at those numbers. I don't see it. Maybe, you know, I guess Burrow will be back, but at the same time, I mean, I don't know. In that division with those three other teams, that's a tough one to endorse. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, look, I think Burroughs going to be, I think he's the real deal, but he's coming off a very serious injury, and it's not a great. team necessarily around them. And I think they just lost Trey Wains as well at Corner.

And they open up as a three-point dog at home against Minnesota. What about Washington? Where's the action on the eight and a half over under and any sort of division NFC championship Super Bowl liability? So it's pretty even. There actually is a little bit of liability on them knowing the conference. I'm surprised to a degree that there isn't more on them to win the division, because if you think about it, look, I mean, the Giants are not very good. The Eagles also stand to not be very good, and at that point, you know, do you have to worry about the Cowboys?

You know, you're probably going to get off to a good start tonight if you're a Washington football team fan with who that would work tomorrow night with who Dallas plays. But there's a plus 220 to win the division. I mean, that defense is good. You know, I get that there's questions around the quarterback position, but that defense is going to keep. games and that division is just not very good. And like, you saw what happened last year, right? I mean, they won seven games and they won the division. Why can't that happen again? And at plus 220, I would have thought we would have taken more money on them, but, you know, there is money on them to win the NFC that we've seen. Where do you see value on teams, you know, prior to the

season kicking off tomorrow night? You know, I would see the NFL is tough for this reason. You know, who knew the bills were going to win one 13 games for last year? You knew they were going to be better. You know, it's kind of tougher to sniff out the teams who might be good. It's pretty easy, though, I feel like to sniff out the teams who are going to be bad, which is why in week one you tend to see a lot of people betting against teams versus betting on teams, I feel like, and we kind of seen that, you know, a lot of money against the bears, a lot of money against the lions this week.

But, look, I'm not inventive this year for me. usual suspects. I think the Rams will be a little bit better with Stafford at quarterback, but, you know, the Chiefs, what they did with their offensive line, it's another team on a little surprise that we don't have a liability on for the Super Bowl. Because you know what you're getting with them. Look, you know, I know their defense can be a little bit malign, but that offense is going to score, and this is a scoring league now, and to have them sitting where they're at on the board, a surprise we're not taking more money on them, too. But it's early, you know, that Super Bowl money comes in as the year, you know,

I've watched a couple of teams and just watch the numbers here in the offseason, and I want to ask you about a couple of them. Denver, I think, has, you know, the odds for everything other than winning the AFC West have come down. There seems to be a more bullish take on Denver. Teddy Bridgewater's the quarterback. I actually thought for a moment that Drew Locke was going to win that job. but they have a ton of weapons, a really good defense. I think the best defensive mind is their head coach in the game. What do you think of Denver? So I thought a little bit of, if you look at exactly when their line moved,

it was right around the same time when it was kind of speculated and thought that Aaron Rogers was going to be in Denver. And I think that's probably the biggest reason why the line moved. And then at that point you had so much money on them. It was kind of hard to float them back up because, just in case, you know, Bridgeway, God forbid if Mahomes were to get hurt or something like that, that all of a sudden you've got Denver inheriting, you know, favoritism in the division, and you've got all this liability out there on them.

So I think that had to do with the Rogers speculation more than anything. Look, they're in it tough. But can they make the playoffs? Yes. It's hard to see them winning that division with Casey in there still. Yeah. What about the Patriots? Very neutral action on them.

Pretty even across the board. I saw a very, very small upticket action on. them actually after Jones was announced as the quarterback was a little surprising. But pretty neutral on them, which is, you know, really the first time you can say that in probably, you know, 20 years, even last year. You know, they were a pretty public team at the outset with Newton at quarterback, and obviously the 20 years before that they were too, but no, kind of ambivalence with New England. We're talking to Eric Zimney.

Eric is the VP of Racing and Sportsbook Operations at Hollywood Casino. just a couple more on the season. Give me the team in the NFL that you really like from a team standpoint and a price standpoint. Washington. I go back to Washington in that conference. Playing in that division, can they scratch out 11 wins or something like that and get a home game or two? I actually think that they can. I think that's a team that's going to be better this year than they were last year.

I think that division as a whole is probably you know, this is pretty stagnant versus last year. And if they won the division last year, and I think they're to be better, I get Prescott's back for Dallas, but at the same time, I'm not sold on them. I think the skins, it doesn't surprise me to see that we have the liability on to win the NFC. I'll take them in that division probably. You said it's much easier to identify the bad teams than it is the good teams. I think it's always hard to identify anything in the NFL before you,

You've seen four to six weeks worth of games. But who are the bad teams, obviously? Well, you've got two of them are probably playing each other with the Jags and the Texans. I think the Jags are road favorites. I think that tells you all you got to know about the Texans. But I think people are kind of skeptical on the Bears. You know, that's a team. The Eagles are another one.

We've seen a lot of money coming on the Niners this week. week against Philly. Against Detroit. Yeah, but I mean, Detroit's another team, excuse me. That's who's not very fondly thought of. But, yeah, the Eagles, Detroit, the Texans, I would say those are the three teams, week one, that we've seen people fading the most. What about individual player props?

Where are your biggest liabilities? Well, the good news is the biggest liability was on over Tim T. Ebo, 0.5 touchdowns. That's not going to get a problem. But we actually have two big liabilities on the game tomorrow night, believe it or not. Scotty Miller to score two touchdowns and Grok to score three at 120 to 1. We've seen a bunch of bets come in on the Scotty Miller one, and that's actually our biggest individual prop tomorrow night.

What about for the season? For the season, you'll get a little bit Mahomes MVP. but there's no one really right now that kind of stands out. You know, Mahomes, you're going to see that Mahomes money no matter what on him, of course. But a little bit of Wentz money, too, actually. All right. Let's talk about week one of the NFL and week two of college football. Right now, going into the college football weekend, where's your biggest exposure?

Iowa. Iowa Money Line. And Iowa Money Line, Michigan, minus the points. that's definitely, it's early. I'm sure that'll change, but the lion's share of the money on the money line money in that game, and the Iowa, Iowa State game is on Iowa. Yeah, again, right, recent impressions. Iowa State looked ugly, and their win, Iowa looked phenomenal blowing out Indiana, so everybody thinks Iowa's going to blow out Iowa State, and then we already talked about the Washington-Michigan game. Will you explain to everybody, and I've tried to it in the past. When numbers move, it's most of the time not public money, but it's sharp money.

Yeah, look, you know which players who are betting across your network, you can kind of trust. I mean, you know, you have them on there, you know, A, because you're a book, you take bets, but also because you do to a degree pay for information to make sure your lines are as sharp as they can be. So, you know, yeah, Joe Smith from off the street is not going to move a line. but, you know, if it's a player who you respect and who you know has, you know, a pretty good track record, that's going to be way more out to the line. So you will see games where, you know, people are like, you know, the money's 70, 30 on one side, but the line's moving away from that.

Well, it's probably because the 30% is the 30% that you trust in that one. So, yeah, it's usually not public money that moves the line. It's usually going to be the players who are sharp. Eric, also, just out of curiosity, and to hear it from somebody who really under understands it from the other end. For everybody that's listening, that bets, and for me, more of confirmation, it's not typical that the old school thinking that a bookmaker takes $100,000 on Washington,

$100,000 on Dallas. They collect the 10% Vig. They're all good. They've got $10,000 in profit, and they don't care who wins the game. There is exposure on most games. It doesn't work perfectly where you get even action. on both sides, right? It doesn't work that way.

No, it doesn't. But if you think, like, you know, it's like got some of these games this week. I mean, you have to, you realize for this Bucks game that people are probably public-wise, you're going to take Tampa. You know, people have taken Tampa no matter what the number. But you can't make the number 14 and a half,

even if that makes it 50-50, because you're going to come in and get slammed on the other side. So, yeah, look, it's just not realistic to expect 50% action on each side. and that almost never happens, and you hope over time, taking that 10%, and, you know, you're on the right side more often than not. It just kind of balance itself out. There's no bigger regression of the mean industry than sports betting as far as being a bookmaker

goes. You know, that 10% over time is your friend, and it doesn't work out like that game-to-game, but over time, it obviously does work out in the book's favor or they wouldn't still exist. How hard do you think, as we move to the NFL card on Sunday, how hard? is betting the NFL? Those are generally going to be the sharpest lines, right? Because, I mean, you've got the most action on those games, generally speaking, at least in the U.S. early in the season, to me, it's especially hard just because, you know,

teams do change in the offseason a little bit, and a little bit in the NFL can mean a lot as far as record goes just because these teams are all, you know, everyone, including the Texans, they're all talented teams and, you know, a small movement in personnel coming a pretty seismic shift. NFL's a sport where it's pretty hard to make money on in the long term. It's not like college where the lines may, at least for the smaller conference games, aren't going to be as sharp. You know, bookmakers with the NFL, you're rarely going to see a line move,

which is, you know, move significantly, which is a pretty good sign that they've got it pegged pretty well. So, yeah, pro football is a pretty hard sport to make a living on. Also tell everybody, and I try to emphasize this all the time, that, you know, half points here and there and minus 108 versus, minus 115 really adds up over the course of a season. And if people are going to do this seriously, you know, they should have multiple shops to comparison shop lines and pricing, right? Yeah, look, if I'm playing, you know, many, many games, that is definitely the case. I mean, look, there's something to be said for, you know, there's loyalty programs that'll keep you on certain

books. But different books have different lines. And that doesn't mean one line's book is, you know, way off or anything like that, but if you like aside, yeah, absolutely, you should be shopping for prices. I don't think that the Joe public player necessarily does that too often. You know, they're more at it recreationally, of course, but the non-recreational player, yeah, I mean, I'd be surprised if you didn't have many people who, you know, who didn't do that. You know, when you're plunking down a lot of money, it certainly makes sense because much like the 10% for the book adds up over time, you know, scratching out a half point or a point here and there, a little bit of extra value over time adds up for the player too.

All right, let's start with some of these games. Tampa, Dallas. I'm going to assume that you're going to, even though they're one of the biggest public teams, I'm going to assume that you need Dallas tomorrow night, true or not? We will need Dallas badly tomorrow night. And there's

sharp money on Tampa too, right? I mean, there's public money on Tampa and there appears to be sharp money because that line, I see it now at eight, you know, in a lot of spots. We're at eight. I think it started at six and a half. This is one or maybe even started at six. This is one where it hasn't mattered, you know, what the number's been.

People are betting Tampa in this game, both money line and spread. So, you know, we're going to need Dallas tomorrow night for sure. You already said you're going to need the Lions plus seven and a half at home against the Niners who people. think we'll bounce back this year. What are your other big needs right now? So, I mean, the Bears would be one for sure. I would say the Saints would also are probably also going to wind up being one. Maybe the Browns to some degree, but the biggest ones are definitely going to be Dallas, the Bears, the Lions, and the Saints. I would think that you'd need the Chargers against Washington Sunday. Am I right or wrong?

Um, not, you know, right now, no. As of right now, it's pretty, it's pretty evenly split. But again, look, we're going to see the lion's share of our action come in on, you know, Saturday and Sunday. But as of right now, it's pretty even. I asked you this last year because there was tremendous uncertainty with COVID. And, you know, that still exists. I mean, we could have, without question, Sunday mornings or late Sunday mornings, scratches. and, you know, issues with games. What kind of risk does that pose? I'll tell you, I mean, it definitely poses somewhat of a risk. You know, I'll tell you, though, it's way easier with the NFL than it is for college football. And, like, even we talk about the Georgia.

Clemson game, I mean, you know, you had, Tyler Davis for Clemson comes down with COVID. You know, a couple days for the game. Georgia's, you know, athletic trainer comes down with COVID if you days for the game, and there's really no injury reporting, and you have no idea who's going to play in some of those games. In college, you can definitely be a little bit of a crapshoot.

The NFL's got it down a little bit better. Probably not as much of a risk, not even close as much of a risk as there was last year, but just like anything, you know, I always question of the Patriots injury report is accurate week to week anyway. I'm sure there's other teams who are in the same boat, but always a risk, not as big as last year, though.

And this year with fans back, does that impact the home field advantage, you know, a number? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think it probably means an extra point, point a half versus last year. Last year, you probably still accounted maybe a point, point a half for it, but I think it's probably back to its more traditional home field advantage range this year. And I'm not sure.

I pretty much every stadium is going to have, you know, is planning on full attendance as far as I know this year. maybe that changes, but for now, yeah, it's pretty much back to the standard, you know, two and a half to three and a half depending on the venue. All right. Last question. If there's one game on the board, you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, that you had to have yourself, what would it be? Can I take Alabama money line against Mercer? No. They're not offering a money line on that game.

No, no, no. You know, giving 54.5, I'm glad that they're not. Or not. I think Georgia's offense is going to bounce. I'm not a homer here by saying this, but given 24-5-first game at home against UAB, you know, first game back in an atmosphere on campus, I will take the, actually, I'll probably take over 45 and a half in that game. By the way, what would the money line be? What would you have to lay on BAM at minus 54 if there was a money line?

I got minus $100,000, minus 50, I don't even know. Minus 50,000. I mean, like Coastal Carolina is minus 25 and a half, they're minus 10,000. So, I mean, it's got to be five times out for a game like that, right? Yeah, by the way, I was looking at the Coastal Carolina for those that, you know, haven't paid attention. So Coastal Carolina is playing Kansas this week, and Coastal Carolina's beaten Kansas the last two years, both times as underdogs, you know, and,

Coastal Carolina obviously emerged last year with this incredible team, incredible season, et cetera. They're a 26.5 point favorite this week over Kansas. That is really quite remarkable. Coastal Carolina over what, you know, at least used to be a Power 5 conference team. Lots of respect for them and obviously not a lot of love for Kansas. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know if it's a bigger reflection on coastal or a bigger reflection on Kansas. Kansas. That's probably the worst Power 5 team this year, I would say.

Hard to believe they had less miles there just a year ago. But yeah, they're pretty bad. The Coastals emerged. But to have to see a Power 5 team that's plus 1,700 on the money line against Coastal Carolina. That is crazy. You know, another quick thing, too, and I

appreciate the time, and I know you've got to run. But I was shocked to see some SEC teams this week. Like, East Carolina, East Carolina, opened as a two-point favorite over South Carolina. Now, the lines moved dramatically. I mean, I think the lines moved three, three-and-a-half points, something like that,

and Carolina is now a one-and-a-half two-point favorite. I'm trying to look up to see where it is today. It's still moving. It's two-and-a-half now. So how bad was that opening line? Obviously not good. You know, not good. I guess South Carolina, look, you've got a graduate assistant, a quarterback, and you look at that,

and you're like, what the heck, you know? I mean, that's kind of a novel situation for an SEC team to be in. But at the end of the day, they've got athletes on that team that are going to be better than East Carolina's athletes. But, yeah, man, I mean, when a line moves five points in the game involving an SEC team without injuries or anything being a factor, that's not a good starting point. Yeah, and Pitts favored at Tennessee as well. And look, Pitts had some good teams.

I don't know enough about them this year, but Tennessee won their opener, and they're playing in Knoxville and they've got fans and Pitt goes in and they're a favorite there. There's somebody else too. I think it's NC State who looked good last week. They're favorite at Mississippi State. A bunch of SEC home dogs. Actually, South Carolina is on the road.

But that's rare to see when they're playing non-conference games. Thank you for doing this. I have always enjoyed our conversations. Hope to do it again soon. Absolutely, Kevin. Thanks for having me, man. That's it for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.