The Kevin Sheehan Show - Commander Culture Consultants

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Kevin and Thom today with more on the busy early week news of Washington hirings, firings,and reports. Plenty on last night's College Football title game and would the guys want Harbaugh in DC? Vrabel is available, what about him? More on Fargo, Kevin the "homer", and Thom being asked to consider "retirement" too.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. I'm here. Tommy is here. It is a shitty day here, Tommy, in D.C.

It is windy. It is rainy. Big storm coming through all rain because it's mild. It's like in the 40s right now. We've got another one of these coming through over the weekend. And then maybe some, winter next week in terms of temperatures anyway. But you told me before we started to record that it's been bad weather down in Florida,

too, where you are. Yeah, it's been pretty bad wind. The wind's coming off the Gulf to the point where they told us to bring in our furniture on the deck, you know, and to tie down the table. Because one time here, we're on the seventh floor. and I wasn't here when this happened. But the couple we stayed with, when they were here one time, a table, their table, when flying off the seventh floor of the balcony

and crashed into the parking lot. Well, good news is it just crashed into the parking lot and not into somebody. Yeah, but it's almost like that kind of wind. appear for about 15 hours. Wow. You know, on and off with rain and stuff. And it hasn't been great here.

Yeah, I'm looking at the updated forecast here early afternoon on Tuesday. And we've got a high wind warning in effect. We have, what are the winds going to get to? Winds gusting as high as 55 miles per hour tonight with heavy. with heavy rain. Temperatures around 41. Yeah, I mean, it's, God, it's, we just haven't had winter here yet. Last year, we didn't have winter.

Next week there, I mean, I was looking at the extended forecast and some of the long-range models. And even if we don't get snow, a lot of the country starting, really now in the Midwest and then moving east, will finally get really cold weather. Like next week, temperatures. will be like in the highs in the 20s for a couple of days. You know, lows in like the low to mid-teens. And that's happening in the Midwest right now.

Kansas City, which hosts the first ever streaming playoff game on Peacock Saturday night, temperatures are going to be in the single digits at kickoff in their game against Miami. It could be the coldest game Miami has ever played. Oh, is that what they're saying? Playoff games. Yeah. I would imagine they've played some cold weather games in Buffalo. They played a cold weather snow game in Buffalo last year, if I recall. But right now, yeah, by the way, just as a complete change of direction from weather.

It's going to be cold in Kansas City. It's going to be cold in Buffalo in the two cold weather cities that are hosting playoff games this weekend. But, you know, the NFL had, I guess, several choices for the first ever streamed game. And, you know, they were promoting the hell out of it in their final Sunday night game, the Miami Buffalo game on Sunday night because they don't want people to get caught off guard. And you know that's going to happen. You know that we're going to get to Saturday night and it's going to be, all right, the Cleveland, Houston game's over.

Now we get to sit down and watch Kansas City of Miami. Where is it? It's not on NBC? Oh, it's an ESPN. No, it's not on Fox. It's being streamed on Peacock. But they picked Kansas City because of Taylor Swift and all of the people that will probably sign up for Peacock

to see Taylor Swift at Travis Kelsey's playoff game on Saturday night. I guess they could have gone with the Packers Cowboys game, and that would have been a big deal too. but imagine the number of new signups they're going to have. I wonder if they have a trial period like Sirius XM does for you, where you can give it back in a month. I don't think they do. Remember, for at least the year, Peacock used to be free,

and then they went over to you have to pay for the subscription. Peacock was free? Yeah, for at least a year or more. I didn't know that. was free, and then it didn't become free anymore. And look, I'm hoping it bombs. I understand we're heading for a streaming universe here, and, you know, the NFL already streams their Thursday night games on Amazon.

But those are regular season games. Right. Now, this is a playoff game. This is sacred. And this, it should be at this point. I think so. And we're not, we're not in the universe where everybody, has cut the cord and everybody's, you know, spending the same amount of money on 20 different

streaming channels. We're not there yet. I have, so I hope it bombs. I have Peacock, so I'm okay with it. We have everything. I mean, I think, I don't know what, I've got to do an audit on how many monthlies I have because it is ridiculous. I just go ahead and pay my American Express every month, you know, automatically. And I do review the bill once a month, but I always review it looking for the big numbers. You know, I'm always looking for, how did it get to that? Oh, that's right. Yeah, I know.

And it's a lot of the other stuff that adds up. As I understand it, or at least the way I operate, your cable bill, for the most point, should be a tax deduction? No. Look at the business you're in. I know it is, but I have tried through this business and through the LLC that I set up now five years ago for this business. I think with my accountant, I've asked him,

I don't think the cable bill is deductible for this business. I understand it's important, sports, the whole thing, but a lot of those opportunities went away recently. I'll ask him, though. I ask him every year. What can I, you know, what are the reasons? reasonable deductions for the business. But anyway, Kansas City, Miami, brutal cold Saturday night.

Coldest playoff game for the Dolphins ever. And Taylor Swift, I'm sure, will be there, and there will be a lot of new signups for Peacock, I would imagine. I'm looking forward to this weekend. You know, with all the news, and we're going to get to all of yesterday because you haven't had a chance to weigh in here on the podcast. You wrote a column about yesterday and about Josh Harris's press conference. And we got a lot to get to.

Mike Vrable just got fired. Man, I put him immediately on the list of people to interview down in South Florida where right now Josh Harris and company are interviewing everybody. Yeah. Here's the complication with that. I think in order to interview Mike Brable, Josh Harris will have to hire another consultant. to pick up the phone to make the call, to call Mike Frable, and to see if he can come in for an

interview. There are a lot of cooks in the kitchen right now, aren't there? Yeah. Sure are. Yeah. A lot of big names, a lot of excitement. We're going to get to that. It's very impressive.

You're really impressed with it all. What's funny is after reading your column, I had had a similar feeling yesterday as well, just about, man, there's a lot of, there's going to be a lot of consensus building necessary to get to a decision here. I don't know. We'll see how it works out. I do want to mention, first of all, so many of you have written very nice reviews, rated us very highly on Apple in particular. If you haven't rated or reviewed the podcast, takes 30 seconds, honestly. You could pause it right now. If you listen to this on Apple podcasts, first of all, hit the follow button, which is the plus, button in the upper right hand corner, and then give us five stars if you think it's worth it and write a quick one to two sentence review. We would prefer if you don't do what commander

lover did, which is he gave us one star and wrote two sentences in his review. Your show was great when you were a homer. It's a tough listen now. That was great. But, you know, your one star really doesn't help me much. I don't care what you write as long as the star count is high. But really, a rate and a review is really helpful for us. A follow on Apple and Spotify, really helpful as well. Same goes for subscribing to the podcast as well. This one is from Neil.

Neil gave us five stars. Thank you, Neil. By the way, when was the last time? Was I ever really a homer? You've known me and worked with me more than anybody in my career in broadcasting. I used to get accused of being a homer a lot. I do remember that. I still, by the way, get accused of being a homer every once in a while, which is baffling to me.

But anyway, do you ever think I was really a homer? No. No, I didn't think you were a Homer. I knew what team you rooted for, and everybody knew that, but I think you could be critical of what your team was doing and not, when I think of a Homer, there's a blind connotation to it to me. There's like my team right or wrong kind of thing to it, you know? You were never like that. Never. I don't think I ever was. I mean, I can, I can remember because really, from the moment I got into sports broadcasting and got opportunities to be on the air, it was really coinciding with the downfall of this organization. You know, was I hopeful? Yes. Were there moments where I was encouraged and optimistic? Definitely, yes. I was, you know, well, the most of the most. Lardiera was before I got into broadcasting.

But some of those Gibbs years, I loved some of those games and some of those moments. Now, I can remember, I can actually remember specifically the first time I was super critical of the team. It was the 2006 off season after they went to the playoffs and won a game in 2005. And they traded for Antoine, they signed Antoine Randallel, Adam Archiletta. for Brandon Lloyd, ripped up his contract, gave him a new contract, and I kept saying, you guys are paying way too much money for a few people. They redid a Clinton Portis's deal at the time, and they let, you know, guys like Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark and others leave. And I remember that was the first time, because I was doing the show with Rigo. And I remember

saying, this is an organization that isn't doing the roster piece well at all. Like Vinnie Serato should not be the general manager. Dan should not be the general manager. And that was like my first memory of starting to call for a new regime in the front office. But Gibbs was the coach. I was optimistic. I was very optimistic when Mike Shanahan took the job. Very, no doubt.

And was even optimistic about Bruce Allen. But that turned pretty quickly. And since it's been much more hoping than thinking. Now, we have, I mean, I don't know if you paid attention or not, but we've got a culture change undergoing right now. I didn't notice that. I know you didn't notice that. I thought the culture had already changed.

I know. The culture. I thought Ron changed the culture. Tom's column is about culture. We will get to that. But I started to read this second review from Neil, who gave us five stars. And he titled his review, TV show review frustration.

For context, three of my all-time favorite TV series are Game of Thrones, the Wire, and Breaking Bad, which makes it all the more frustrating to hear Kevin and Tom talk about watching lesser shows that have jumped the line. Who cares if there are multiple seasons, man up and enjoy the greatness? Now he gives us a winking emoji. So I read this and I'm not sure I really understood it because I don't think either one of us has ever had an issue with shows that have multiple seasons.

Did you say something about that? I don't think so. Is he saying that we express, we fawn over other shows that aren't as good as these shows? Well, he does say they talk about watching lesser shows that have jumped the line. Well, first of all, let me just tell you. No shows that I've watched or even talked about jump the line with Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad. I mean, Game of Thrones Breaking Bad Sopranos are my top three favorite shows of all time.

In terms of dramas, anyway. Put them in any order. I'd probably go Breaking Bad Game of Thrones. Sopranos in that order for me. Tommy has always, you know, and I haven't watched the wire and he hasn't watched Game of Thrones, but we have two of the, we have, we, we are both in agreement on Breaking Bad. Yes. And the Sopranos. Right. We're both, we're both in agreement on that. Our difference is, I would put the wire in there and you go with the Dragon show. Right, right. The, these kinds of shows you hate.

watching even though Stranger Things is one of your favorite shows also. Game of Thrones you didn't watch and I haven't watched The Wire. It's the biggest, you know, it's the biggest blind spot for me. But yeah, I don't mind multiple season shows. By the way, I finished Fargo season one. Just great. And I'm going to watch season two. Now, I've had people tell me, you're through, or you're on season five right now.

I've had people tell me that after season two, it definitely gets a little bit less interesting, that the first two seasons are the brilliant seasons. True or not? I disagree with that. Okay. I think season four is fantastic. Okay. Is season one your favorite?

It might be. No, it's season one. It might be, you know, season four might be my favorite. Really? Okay. Yeah. with Chris Rock is in it. I think that's season four, or not season three, with Chris Rock.

I get confused. I'm looking through the season. Season three, no, season four is Chris Rock. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's pretty good. I don't know what they're talking. I think that email was probably generated by all the accolades we gave Fargo.

We're not saying that it's one of the top three shows we've ever seen. Right. But we're saying it's definitely worth your time. A hundred percent worth your time. Excellent. And I have to say that the finale of season one is great. Just everything about that first season. I can't wait to get to season two, which I will do in a moment.

I did look ahead to see that Kirsten Dunst is in it. Ted Danson is in it. That's fantastic in it. And the guy that played in Breaking Bad, the guy that played, you know, the God, I hate when this happens. Bob Odenkirk. No, Odenkirk's in season one. Okay. I'm talking about the guy that played Todd, played Todd in Breaking Bad, is in season two of this one as well.

He's actually been in. Oh, my gosh, yes. He's been in a lot of good things. He's pretty good. Yeah. I'm trying to think he was in a movie where he was really good. Was it the Irishman? He was in Black Mass. The movie about Whitey Borgia. Yeah, that had Johnny Depp in it. He was in Black Mass. He was also in the movie that I loved with Cruz, which I don't think was a movie that really got talked about enough. The true story about that guy, Barry Seal. What was the name of that movie? The guy that was, you know, basically. American-made. Good call. American-made. That's it.

Yeah, that was an excellent movie. Okay, enough about that. Rate us and review us, please. It's very, very helpful. So, before we get to your column, let me just mention the National Championship game last night. Did you watch it or not? Oh, yes, I did. I watched it. So I, you know, I didn't bet Michigan. I liked Michigan.

I should have put Michigan into the smell test. They were an anti-public play. There was sharp money on them. And I just hesitated on all fronts because Washington had beaten me down in the last three or four times I had them. And I just wasn't sure. I didn't bet the game myself. I said on the show yesterday I was going to bet Michigan. That line went to five and a half six.

And I just was like, now I'm getting a bad number. and I just backed off the game, to which both my good friend Tim Murray and Steve Sands, because we're on a group text, talking about, you know, the obvious anti-contrarian plays every night and every sport, they were congratulating each other this morning on the group text, and I had to admit that I chickened out and didn't play it, to which Tim Murray said, I am really disappointed in you. And yeah, I was disappointed too, because usually it's when it fits the bill, it fits the formula, and it hasn't worked with a specific team,

that's when you really have to show balls and say, really, I've lost on Washington going against Washington three times. I'm going to do it one more time, damn it? Because it's the right play. And I didn't do it last night. And Michigan rolled them. It was an interesting game. I mean, Michigan ran the ball at will in the first. quarter against Washington as they ran out to a 17 to 3 lead. But really after the first quarter, Michigan did very little in the game offensively. I'm just going to say this. I think I've said it once before. I don't get the fascination with J.J. McCarthy. It might be something that I can't see, and it's the intangibles, which everybody around him says this guy's a born leader. He's

incredibly smart. I see a guy that is listed at 6-3 that never has to put the game on his back because he's played on a great team. He plays smaller than his size. He gets so many balls batted down. We've talked about that all year with Sam Howell. I don't see the fascination with McCarthy as in some mock drafts the fourth quarterback that will be taken after Caleb Williams, Drake, May, and Jaden Daniels. I don't see it. But anyway, it was not Michigan's offense that won the game last night. It was Michigan's defense. They really rattled.

They punished them. They punished Washington. And they rattled. They rattled the guy that couldn't be rattled. You know, he wasn't rattled against Oregon. He wasn't rattled against Texas. Michael Pennix Jr. had gained so many, so many fans with his two high-profile games, the Pac-12 championship game and the Texas game,

underdogs in both of those games, and he lit Oregon and Texas up. And not only that, like you talked about, the left-handed throw, the ball seems to be prettier. Everything about Pennix Jr. in those two games was really great, and he was climbing draft boards. And I was impressed too, but I also watched him a lot during the regular season,

and I said there were games that I watched. this year where he did not look like a first round pick. Like he has always thrown the deep ball well, but he was wildly inaccurate in other games with just the easy throws. And I said, I just want to see him against the best defense they'll face all year long, Michigan's defense before, you know, anointing him QB4 in the upcoming draft. And I thought that it was a problem for him from the jump. He was inaccurate on every ball that he threw.

he was getting pressured. He only got sacked once, but it was the pressure that had his eyes going in every direction. They confused him with coverages. He was inaccurate all night long. And even though they got back into that game, down 17, 10 at halftime, and it was 20 to 13, and Michigan was punting on every possession there for a while. They couldn't do anything offensively. Washington couldn't. The story of the game for me was Michigan's incredible defense. It was the best defense all-season. long in college football. Jesse Minter, their defensive coordinator was with the Ravens, you know, the whole Harbaugh connection. They just were excellent on defense. They were the best

team in the country. You didn't know it when they had a poor schedule for much of the year, but by the time you got through that Ohio State game and the Penn State game, funny that Maryland probably played him as tough as anybody did this year, other than Bama in the semifinal. But that, that Michigan was the best team. They were the best team, and they are so well-coached and have been since he got there, especially on offense, but defensively they've improved in the last few years. And no matter how much of a shelf life, short shelf life, he might present as a new head coach in the NFL,

Jim Harbaugh is a flat-out winner. And he's won everywhere he's gone, and he's won everywhere he's gone, and he's one big, and now he's won at all, finally. And I did not even think about the investigations of the recruiting or the sign stealing. I know what kind of team they've had, and I know what kind of team I was watching last night. They were the best team in the country. As far as Pennix Jr. goes, injury history, inaccurate at times with the shorter throws. A very odd release.

I'm not knocking it, but man, it is a flick of a wrist kind of. of a throw. I'm not going to downgrade him for playing against the best team, and they were manhandled up front, but he still, to me, would be after the Williams. For me, it would be Jaden, Daniels, and Williams are the two best, then Drake May, and then we go to the Pennix Jr., Bo Nix, I guess, J.J. McCarthy conversation. I would take Pennix Jr. before McCarthy. I'm pretty sure I would do that. But I don't know a lot about McCarthy. because who could know a lot about McCarthy. There were games in which he barely had to throw the football.

Last night he was 10 for 18, 10 completions. Against Penn State when they went to state college and won, he was 7 of 8 for 60 yards. You know, this was a team that was a line of scrimmage team, a run-first team, but everybody around them swears by them. And, you know, I think pro scouts like all these. intangible, so we'll see. But Michigan, easily last night, and I was just sitting there watching as a fan with no action, knowing that Michigan should have been my play. But did you have any

thoughts on the championship game? I know you don't watch these teams all year long, but what did you make a Michigan? What do you think, a Harbaugh, et cetera? Well, again, I was, like you, I was impressed with the Michigan defense. It was a punishing defense. You know, at times it seemed like the last place Washington wanted to be was on the field to take another snap against that defense. That's how tough it was. And I'm with you 100% on Harbaugh. And I think his second trip to the NFL, he'll probably be an even better coach than he was the first time through. Why?

Because human nature, that happens. human nature, you know, if you're going back to where you had been before and you've had time to step away from that arena, and now you're back in it, the experience probably makes you a better coach. Yeah. So, I mean, look, I'm on board with Harbaugh, but, you know, apparently he's tough to get a hold of the, uh, You know, Josh Harris had to hire Bob Myers to pick up the phone to call Harbaugh's agent, apparently. Well, I mean, I would say that if they still haven't gotten in touch with him, he could go hire a couple of other people. And they could try to reach him from their phones. Heaven forbid that Jim Harbaugh would take a call from Josh Harris.

One last thing on Michigan and Washington last night. Michigan plays Washington next year, October 5th, 2024, in Seattle. It's a big 10 game, right? And it's a big 10 game, yeah. I mean, God, help us all. I just don't get how all of this happen. I do. It's money.

It's football. It's the whole thing. But yeah, Michigan, Washington next year in a conference game. Michigan's schedule next year. I was looking at this early this morning. So they had one of the weakest non-conference schedules you've ever seen this past season, which is why nobody was really sure about them until they finally played somebody, which was Penn State, and that was late in the season.

Next year, they open with Fresno State, always a pretty competitive team. Then they get Texas. Then they play Arkansas State. then it's USC in a conference game in Michigan. Then they, two weeks later, they're in Seattle to play Washington. They play Oregon next year in Ann Arbor, and of course they play Ohio State in Columbus. I mean, but they, the non-conference games are Texas and Fresno State, which Michigan did not go out and really test themselves this year. They had like a schedule that started with like East Carolina and Bowling Green.

before they got to the conference schedule. It was pathetic. But anyway, yeah, hardball, that's interesting that you think he'll be better the next go-round. I don't even know if he could be better than he was in San Francisco. 44-19 and won a 690 win percentage

is pretty tough to beat. But if you're talking about just in general, not record, being a better all-around coach, of course. I mean, you know, it's been years since he's been there. I mean, his final year in San Francisco. Francisco was 2014, you know, so it's going to be 10 years ago. Yeah.

Yeah, so he's probably more mature, you know, I don't know him, okay? And I don't cover college football, but human nature being what it is, I'm betting that he probably plays well with others a little bit better than he did back then. So, you know, of all of the news that broke yesterday, and just updating. that news as of now, as of the recording of this podcast, right? Let me go through the list right now, as we have it. Washington has requested an interview with or has either interviewed or is about to interview down in Miami, which is where Josh Harris lives.

Adam Peters, Ian Cunningham, Alicallaby, Mike Borgonzie, Glenn Cook, and Will Maclay, the Cowboys, longtime VP of player personnel on the GM side. The coach side, what's been reported, Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn, both of the Lions, Mike McDonald and Anthony Weaver from the Ravens, both on the defensive side, Dan Quinn, Rahim Morris, Bobby Sloick. Now, there was a report from Jordan Schultz that others haven't confirmed. I would have been looking more for a Nicky or a John or a Ben or somebody to confirm this, but Jim Harbaugh, his agent, Don Yee, who he secured as an agent just a few months ago.

He's Brady's agent. He's Sean Peyton's agent, Brady being in Vegas as a part owner. But Harbaugh's apparently a potential interest as well. By the way, real quickly, taking Harbaugh out of that list, five of the coaches that they've requested interviews with or have interviewed already are defensive guys. only two offensive guys, Ben Johnson and Bobby Sloick, which is interesting. But anyway, on the Harbaugh front, so the discussion about Harbaugh is that, well, let me ask you this. First of all, Bill Belichick is still as of now in New England, and there's actually been some reporting that maybe if Belichick turns over sort of the GM responsibilities, that he might stay in New England. We'll see. But let's just assume Belichick's not going to be a target for this group.

That's my guess on Belichick is that this group wouldn't be interested. Do you have a guess on Belichick? It might require another consultant or two to call. I mean, Belichick would require a whole team of consultants. Would that understand culture, in good culture? Yes, in order to have that conversation with them. Right. Look, the Belichick thing is now up in the air because of Braybill being on the market.

Sure. Being the former New England Patriot. Right. Icon of a player. And a great coach. That certainly complicates the issue there. And isn't it remarkable that the Titans didn't try to trade Brable? Did he have any time left on his contract?

Yes. Yeah. Yes. I guess. But according to Diana Rusini, they thought it would be too complicated. Wow. Too hard to do. Yeah, because they just let him go.

Because there's definitely. That's a little insane. Yeah, because he's one of those guys. I would bet everything I have, he's a head coach within a few weeks somewhere else. I agree. I agree. If he wants to be, yes. On Harbaugh.

So Harbaugh, would I want him as a coach in Washington? Definitely, yes. Yeah, but Kevin. And, you know, it's a short shelf life. You're only going to get him like you got him, you know, like San Francisco did for four years. Yeah, but he was 44, 19 and one, went to a Super Bowl and was in three straight NFC championship games. I'll take that four-year run. Thank you.

And then we can worry about the big run guy after, you know, in 2028. The issue with Harbaugh, though, is, I think, is that he's going to want to bring in his, GM. So I talked to somebody early this morning, somebody who called me about Harbaugh. This isn't somebody necessarily in the know, but this is somebody who really knows the Ravens in particular. And so they said, you know, Harbaugh would be interested in Washington. Do you have any idea if they're interested in him? I said, I have no idea. I mean, there was this one report, Jordan Schultz, yesterday. And the reason is that he and his brother have talked about at some point in their lives making it easier for their parents. They're a very close family, obviously, and their

parents travel every weekend to Ann Arbor or to wherever Michigan's playing, and then to wherever the Ravens are playing. And as they've gotten older, it's gotten much harder. And the idea of John being in Baltimore and Jim being in D.C., well, there's the traveling problem solved. Now, they play road games a lot. In some weekends, it would be Baltimore at Cincinnati, or Baltimore in Vegas against the Raiders in Washington at home. So you're still, you know, but there would be less travel with them being there. But that way, there's always a game at home. There's always a game at home.

There would always be a game at home. There would always be a game in the DMV. That's not true. They can both be on the road at the same time. Very rare. The rare exception. I have no idea if it's rare or not. But anyway, the other part of it, too, is that the chiefs,

Chargers opportunity is obviously an opportunity that in some ways is much more attractive because the number two pick makes Washington very attractive. It might make Washington so much more attractive than it was just three or four weeks ago. The salary cap space and the number of draft choices, it's the fact that they have the number two pick in the draft and they have a chance to get one of the top two quarterbacks that makes it a lot more attractive than it even was if you, assume that it for the first time had become attractive. But the other part of this was, yeah, the chargers have Justin Herbert and they've got, you know, incredible facilities and sofi, but they don't have a fan base. And then Vegas... They have no fan base. Yeah, and then Vegas is, you know, a bit weird too, although there are ties there. And the GM that he would want, the guy that's the assistant GM in Indianapolis working for

Ballard is this guy Dodds. The Raiders are interviewing him. So I do think that, the connection for him to Vegas is becoming more obvious and probably will be where he lands. But one of the reasons that he loved San Francisco is that they were downtrodden at the time, but it was this fan base with a history and he brought it all back. And he might want a market that would be super enthused about winning again as sort of an old school guy. But I don't think he's going to end up here, though. I mean, I'm just giving you some of the reasons why it might happen and to tell you that I'd be in favor of Harbaugh being the coach here, definitely.

I'd be in favor of Rabel being the coach here. You know, the young assistants, you know, for all that want to go, young hot assistant and try to get, you know, the next guy that stays in the same place for 10 to 15 years, it's just like draft choices. That's a one in four chance, too. For everyone that turns out to be a great hire, there are two to three that fall by the wayside and are out. You know, just as D'Amico Ryans is hitting it big now,

you know, Arthur Smith is on his way out. You know, other guys are on their way out. So anyway, what? Let me say this about Harbaugh, and I say this in the calm. You know, culture being the definitive word here, the operative words of success. Jim Harbaugh is a culture onto himself. Yeah.

Okay? When you hire Jim Harbaugh, you get the Jim Harbaugh culture. Belichick is a culture onto himself. He is a culture. Okay, you get that when you get Belichick. All these other young hotshots, they have to create a culture, something that they've never done before. So you're right.

it is a crapshoot. And if you think culture is so important, you know exactly what kind of culture you're going to get with Jim Harbaugh. I mean, there's no question about that. But you're right, I don't think Harbo will be the guy. I have no problem if he was the guy or with Braybill. Either one, I think Braybill is an excellent coach who created his own level of culture in Tennessee.

but I think you're right. I don't think that will happen. I don't happen that. I don't think the consultants will be able to make all that happen. Yeah, you know, the culture thing, and I read your column, and we can get into it a little bit more after the break, but I think that something you said is true. It's like there are people that you can hire

that if you're an owner that steps away and lets everybody do their job, they bring the culture with them. The problem with, you know, a Joe Gibbs or a Marty Schottenheimer or a Mike Shanahan or even a Ron Rivera culture is that Dan was here to always ensure that the culture wouldn't be changed. But it requires the owner to allow that culture that you're bringing to your franchise to be the culture and to step aside and say,

you're the culture and I'm on board with it. And that's not necessarily the direction that I think they're going in. And we'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. If you're thinking about new windows, get them now. The cold weather is coming next week and beyond. You'll save a lot of money just on your heating bill alone. Your home will look much better.

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endorsing Windonation if I didn't have complete trust in them. I've been doing it for 14 years. They've got the experience. They've got the credibility with me and many of the people who are listening to this podcast. Call them at 86690 Nation or go towindonation.com. So yesterday, wild day, right? We knew Ron Rivera would get fired. But certainly the Bob Myers and Chris Spielman adds. That was the surprise. news yesterday. I mean, it's almost like we blew right by the firing of a head coach after four years because it was such a foregone conclusion. But you could easily blow by it because almost simultaneously they announced that they had hired, you know, at this point, a legendary

front office NBA executive, Bob Myers, and a long-time, highly respected front-office NFL exec in Chris Spielman. I talked about. I talked about. about it on yesterday's show. David Aldridge was on the show with me yesterday, if you haven't listened to it. David was great. I'll turn it over to you. Tell me what you thought about the news, and I'm sure you will work your column into it a little bit more than you even did in our first segment. Okay. Well, let me just say, I posted my column on Twitter. And let me read some of the comments here from some people. It looks like Thomas desperately reaching for the bottom of the barrel.

You have been complaining for too long. Have you considered retiring? You know? Well, have you? Tommy is really going to miss writing about the target-rich environment that was Dan Snyder's ownership. A real grasper shot at Josh Harris here. It's not, my calm, it's not necessarily a shot at Josh Harris. I didn't. I didn't read it that way.

They won the day. Okay? They won the press conference. Okay, this, they won the perception battle yesterday on the day they fired their coach. There's nothing wrong with that. And like I say in the column, that has value. That's important, especially with this organization that can't seem to do anything right, perception-wise. But come on.

Okay. Wake up. It was a show. You know, it was a it was a rich smart guy owner's show. I mean, you're going to tell me

that Josh Harris, who owns two sports teams and owns 5% of the Steelers, he still hasn't sold that yet. Wait a minute. Don't you have to sell that? Yeah, you do. He's trying, but he hasn't sold it yet. Oh, interesting.

You're going to tell me this. guy can't figure out how to, really, we're only talking about one hire if he's doing it right. That's the president of football operations. One hire, okay? You're going to tell me that he's been watching this team all year.

He's been in the league for a couple years, as a minority owner. He's been in the sports franchise business for a decade. And he doesn't know by the end of the year who he's interested in hiring to be

the next general manager, he doesn't have a list. He needs consultants to tell him, you know, you should go after this guy, you should go after that guy. It's ridiculous. Josh Harris could handle this. You ever need any, you ever need Bob Myers or Rick Spielman or anybody else to help him hire the president of football operations. Who in turn should then conduct a football.

football coach search if it's done right. And then that's once the football operations guy picks the coach that gets approved by the owner, that's, I think, what most fans are hoping for, that kind of structure. So, I mean, so Josh Harris could do all that. So this is just a show, you know, and it's an understandable show. but don't be smarter than to sit there and say, wow, he's really doing things the right way. You know, like your owner's an idiot and he can't handle this himself? Yeah, I get that part of the reaction.

Like, yesterday wasn't the day to sit back and fawn all over your owner. Like, I mean, now, I disagree with you on the hirings and the purpose of the hiring. I agree with you that to sit back and say, oh my God, yesterday, we got a guy that's going to actually listen to some people that know what they're talking about and he's going to, he's not insecure and he's going to hire good people and let them do the job. And look, you know, remember, we're putting him side by side with Dan Snyder. So everybody's going to look better. I think my disagreement with you would be all season long, I was wondering, and we talked about this, and I asked Ben or John or Nikki or anybody that I would have on the show, who's he talking to? Like, he's got to be talking to somebody to create the list of people that he'll interview for the head of his football operation. you know, because he's not a football guy.

And he's new, and he was a very small owner in the Pittsburgh Steelers. But almost anybody, hell, if I owned the team and was a new owner, I'd be looking, I don't have the answers to, you know, whether or not it should be Alec Calabey that I bring in for the interview or Mike Borganzi or maybe somebody that's retired right now that's, I totally get him having people, you know, that's why, you know, and I said this probably three weeks ago or a month ago now, I know internally Marty Herney's been a really good sounding board and somebody he's leaned on to kind of learn the league and learn football and how

football operations, you know, differ from, you know, the NBA, etc. not that Marty Herney was going to become a big part of the next regime at all. But I wondered, you know, I mentioned Kevin Colbert's name multiple times this year because he was the long time, you know, head of personnel for the Steelers who had recently retired. And, you know, nobody had an answer. Like, who's he talking to, you know? Who approached Sean Payton when the sale process was going on, which Sean Payton admitted

that somebody who was in the running to become the commander's owner, you know, or representing that person had reached out to gauge interest. And maybe that was somebody with Josh Harris. I thought that there had to be somebody that he was leaning on. And it turns out that it definitely was Bob Myers. And that somebody, and I still can't find the connection to Spielman, I even had time on this morning, and he wasn't entirely sure. But somebody, gave him, Spielman, who by the way, was, you know, let go from Minnesota a couple of years ago and has not been rehired in the NFL and probably this is the kind of gig he's been looking for. I don't have a problem with that. Now, was it a show to, on the day that he fired Rivera to say,

this process has begun and, you know, we've got Bob Myers and we've got Spielman. The only thing I would say is he really didn't say that much about either guy. I actually, you know, he's not the greatest of communicators, Josh, isn't. But I actually love the fact that most of his answers are, you know, kind of off the cuff and what he's thinking. And he kind of gets to the point. And, you know, I didn't think he was up there taking a bow for hiring Spielman and Myers. No, but he didn't have to. There were, look, before I wrote the column, I really tried online to find some media pom-poms to order before I wrote it.

But they were all sold out. He didn't have to take a bow. People took the bows for him. Okay? He didn't have to do that. And I think you've got your advisors mixed up. I would think that Rick Spielman would be the guy he would have been talking to. No, no, no, no.

What does Bob Myers know about the NFL? Well, Bob Myers is someone that he's known for a while, and he knows Lake of the owner of the Warriors. their NBA people, and Bob Myers, by all accounts... Where's he compiling this list of people that talk to? No, I'm not talking about Bob Myers compiling most. That has to be somebody with NFL inside information. Yeah, I'm just saying that all along I was wondering,

who's he going to have that's going to guide him in the direction of interviewing the right people based on, you know, the kind of organization he wants to create? That is Spielman, 100% more than Bob Myers. Yes. But it's been Myers that I... I bet he's had conversations with regarding organizational culture. And, you know, I think he just, I think Myers just. And a new model.

Yeah, models and cultures and paradigms. I think it's the great pronunciation. And all that stuff. Look, this is right out of transparent Ted. Yeah, right. Business jargon. It really is. Yeah.

I mean, this is what Ted did. But no, no, no. He's no. But he doesn't come off as pompous like Ted. You would agree with that. But this exact practice, what we're talking about, it's the same thing that Ted did. In terms of lots of people.

Lots of people involved. Tommy Shepard. I know that. And it is for show as much as anything else. Here's the other thing that could be an issue moving forward. Most NFL, if not every NFL team, you pretty much have an owner, not an ownership group. You have minority investors.

But, you know, Jeffrey Lurie decides who's going to be the general manager in Philadelphia. John Marrett decides it in New York. Jerry Jones decides it in Dallas. Here, you have an ownership group. And while Josh Harris may be the lead guy, Managing partner. It's not really clear. that he's going to call all the shots.

Look, here's the advisory committee that thing for a new head coach and GM. It's got Josh Harris, Magic Johnson, David Blitzer, and Mitchell Rails, included with Bob Myers and Rick Spielman. Well, who has the final say there? Well, Josh Harris does. You know, you know that for sure. Yes. There's no other NFL ownership set up like this in the league right now.

I'm looking through. With 20? Well, nobody had, you're right. No ownership group has this many minority shareholders. And in the NFL, it's typically one guy. It's a fiefdom. It's not usually a democracy. I know, but I'm looking.

Go ahead. They have to come up with the money. We may be entering an age where teams are too expensive for one guy to do the bulk of the buying. I was going to say this one was $6 billion and wasn't family handing it down to son. I know that. Father handing it down to son. I get that. But this is not, typically teams make these decisions.

One guy is making the call. I'm looking through. There's just a list of basically every NFL team's front office with titles, the exact titles for all of them. Almost everybody, with the exception of just a couple, including Washington, it starts with, you know, owner or owner slash chairman, you know. And then that's it, by the way, when it comes to ownership. Washington is the only group listed, and I'll just read it verbatim. Ownership, managing partner, Josh Harris, limited partners,

Mitchell, Rails, Magic Johnson, David Blitzer, Mark Eim, and 15 others. So it is a different type of ownership situation because if it's a group, because it's a group. Of course, the Packers are the most unique of ownership situations because they are publicly held. But, John just raising that as something to keep your eye on moving forward as a decision-making entity. I think that's really fair. I do, because it's unique. And so let's see how that. And by the way, he hasn't referred to himself as an owner.

he's referred to himself as the managing partner of the ownership group. You know, and he talks about himself and his partners all of the time. And this search committee is made up of Josh Harris, Mitchell, Rails, Magic Johnson, David Blitzer, and then Bob Myers and Rick Spielman. But Josh Harris is the final say. You know, of the $6 billion, he put down the most by a lot. Yeah. You would hope so. Now, let me just really take the train off the tracks here for a minute.

You and I could pick the next president of football operations. We could do this. You don't need to hire Bob Myers or Rick Spielman. You could do it. No, I couldn't. Not without help. Not without help. That's ridiculous.

One phone call. Ridiculous. One phone call. One phone call to whom? It's all you have to make. Who? To whom? You call Mike and you say, Mike.

Who should I hire? as the president of football operation. I know, but see, but that I wouldn't... And that's all would take. I wouldn't do it that way, though. I wouldn't rely on just one person. I would, I would want to do...

Look, I don't have a problem in the situation therein to casting this incredibly large net. By the way, just going through the process of interviewing, because I've done this before, not in football, but interviews typically lead to other candidates and sometimes the people that you hire just based on the interviews.

I think you learn a lot in the interview process. Now, would I be this incredibly deliberative consensus building owner? Probably not because at the end of the day I like people who are decisive and I consider myself at times to be decisive sometimes to the point of being too decisive. bordering on impulsive. But in this situation, I think that I would need one or two people that I would want to sit down with. And I'd say, look, I just bought this team. I'm a big football fan.

I know a lot of these names. I've heard a lot of these people. By the way, I said this on yesterday's show. Anybody that's got a definitive opinion about the general manager hire, if they're hiring somebody without general manager experience, is almost just looking for, you know, a hot take kind of a position. Because we don't know anything about these people if they've never done this job before.

I mean, we can all read about Alec Halliby and Adam Peters, but they've never had total responsibility over a football organization, managing people and a scouting staff, etc. It's a whole different thing altogether. But I would definitely need a couple of people to sit down, with and say, all right, I'm going to be involved in interviewing, and I'm going to be involved, but I don't even know the right questions to ask. No, Tommy. It's a lot more than that. Oh, you do too. No, come on. No. This is ridiculous. I would know a couple of questions to ask.

One call to Mike Shanahan and one call to the farmer who grew the Mike Shanahan coaching tree and say, Mike, can you plant a seed over here in Washington so we can grow that kind of tree? That's all it would take. You know, if you don't need this, I disagree. I completely disagree. I don't know who those people would be, but I would need people to help me develop the list of people that I need to interview for these jobs and then to participate to a certain degree in the interviewing process. You could not have come up with this list that they came up with on your own? No, not necessarily on the GM side.

I mean, yeah, I could go read Albert Breers column about the hot guys, but that's a writer. That's somebody that's a media member. I want somebody inside the league that's been living this. I don't know these people. The conversations that these people have about media reports, about what they're thinking are probably just laugh out loud conversations. Did you see what, you know, Rappaport said?

I mean, can you imagine hiring him? I might want to point out that Rick Spielman or Bob Myers are not in the league. Well, Rick Spielman's been in the league forever. He knows everybody. Right. And so is Mike Shanahan. Yeah, I understand that. But not recently and not as a front office executive.

Well, yeah, he was. He was just with Minnesota two years ago before they hired Adolfo Mensa and Kevin O'Connell. I believe Mike has his son who coaches in the league. Yeah, and Mike watches film all the time of his son's team. I understand that. I would definitely call him, no doubt. No doubt. But I, like, there are, Tommy, I think you're just way, way too simplifying the process. I'm not trying to make it into rocket science. I'm sure there would be somebody I could sit down with that would say, here are the three people you got to bring in. They're the only ones that are worth hiring.

Everybody else is essentially the same. I mean, you know, if you get to those people, call me. But just pick one of these three people and whoever you connect with, hire that person. Yeah, there's probably some people that would say that. But I think I'd want to be more thorough than that. By the way, I'll tell you one thing I could do. I know. I'll tell you one thing I could do in addition to creating these interviews at my home in South Florida.

I could be thinking about the name issue and doing something about that. The more I thought about this, and I played this on the show yesterday, I played the soundbite. You heard what he said about the name, right? He completely blew off the answer. I'm not even going to play it. He completely dismissed it and talked about how busy they are. Can't you see we're busy right now? Yeah, we can all see how busy you are.

You ran, you know, a $98 billion hedge fund. There are many days that you were busy doing a lot of different things. I think it was fine to answer that question that way in July. I didn't think it was fine to answer that question that way yesterday. And I said it on the podcast, and I'll be a little bit yesterday, but I'll be a little bit more specific. I think he should have said something like, hey, good question, glad you asked. It is something that we are looking at. We're taking very seriously.

We know how important it is to so many of our fans, both current and previous. And we'll have an update on that at an appropriate time. But yes, it's something that we are working on. I think at the very least, that would have been an indication. To me that he's not trying to duck it and that, hey, by the way, we can do more than one thing simultaneously because we're really smart people. And, you know, and by the way, we got a lot of people that we have helping out and advising. You know, I'm sure he's got somebody, you know, advising him on this issue or taking this issue on.

I just, I didn't, I think he could have answered it in the way that I just, described at the very least. Do you have an opinion on that one way or the other? No, I agree. I agree. I mean, I think it's something that needs to be dealt with. And again, you know, the idea that they're too busy to do something like this. Yeah. That's what your employee tells a boss. That's not what the boss said. Right. Yeah. The boss doesn't say, oh, we're too busy to do this. right yeah Robert California you know it looks at Pam in the kitchen and says oh really you're too busy to help me right now

and that changed the conversation real quickly um all right uh what else on us um i i honestly i don't have so many of you said well who who's your combination of people it's so hard on the GM front. I don't know. I know Adam Peters is probably the most sought after. I can read all about Adam Peters and Ian Cunningham just like all of you can. But this is a completely different job to be the general manager, to have the responsibility over the entire roster, to manage people probably for the first time in a serious way, to have accountability in meetings with the owner. Like, it's got to be a good fit. And then that fit's got to be a good fit. fit with the coach. My opinions on the coaches are more definitive than on the GMs. Everybody

says Adam Peters, okay, Will McClay apparently has been the brains of the Jones operation for a while in Dallas. When it comes to Cunningham or Haliby or Burgundy or Cook, I don't know. I have no idea. On the coach front, I'll tell you what, like the Mike McDonald in Baltimore is a genius X's and O's defensive coordinator. But I don't know if he's a leader of men. I don't know if he as a head coach would be the guy that everybody would look up to versus what they did with Dennis Allen in New Orleans the other day, essentially say, no, coach, we're not taking victory formation.

We're going to hand the ball off and score. We're going to get to that in the final segment of the show. But Anthony Weaver looks like a start. in so many ways, and my God, what a job he's done with that D front. But again, don't you have said, maybe I'm taking, putting words in your mouth. You want the president of football operations to pick the coach, right? Yeah, and that's going to be the first hire anyway, because the coach can't be interviewed formally in person until January 22nd.

I mean, I don't know that that means that they wouldn't hire somebody first. So all the coaching stuff, unless you're talking about, about a harball or a brable or or or or bellichick unless you're talking about somebody like that all the other coaching stuff is it's just noise until you hire your president of football ops if you believe the system should follow a certain standard a certain way of doing things yes the owner's got to be involved to a certain degree he's got to make sure that you know the two of them, yeah, I don't know, Tommy, I listened to Josh Harris's answer on this yesterday. There were two things he said yesterday that I actually really liked. Number one was,

with respect to, you know, coach-centric versus a GM and a head coach, his preference, or as he said, his orientation would be, you know, we hire a head of football operations and we have a head coach because those are two 80-hour-a-week jobs. But talent dictates that. If, you know, we're not going to pass on talent to sort of uphold this organizational chart idea we have. I love that because in hiring for any position, sometimes somebody's so good and so talented and it doesn't fit what you thought the job would be or how it would be structured. You're stupid to let that person go. And by the way, I think in many ways that's almost a concession for the possibility of like a Jim Harbaugh as an example.

The other thing that he said was he said with respect to, you know, I think Barry's Verlug asked the question. You know, will it be the GM that you hire that then goes and hires the head coach? He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, I'll, you know, I'm going to be involved in that process because they're going to have accountability to me. And then he talked about the importance of making sure that those two people are aligned. And that's one thing that I think we've seen in the league. You know, there used to be a time when the GM and the head coach were like almost, you know, two separate entities altogether. Your GM and head coach have to be on the same page from the jump. Your head coach has to get players that fit how he wants to coach.

And the GM has to be aware of that. So I don't know. This is a long conversation and it's getting sideways. My point is, I don't know what the right combination is. If you told me that, you know, I could get Mike Vrable right now with a general manager of his choice, somebody in the league that he knows really well and trusts a lot, and it's somebody that's on this list or not on that list, in some ways the head coach hire is more important.

That's what I said. Yeah. That's what I said. If it's Crable or Belichick or Harbaugh, yes, that's a different conversation. Right. But the rest of the coaching prospects are unknown. Right, they're unknowns. And should fall under the general manager,

president of football operations direction. Yeah, Dan Quinn is not an unknown as a head coach. Dan Quinn is not an unknown. But everybody else, Rahim Morris, you know, had a very brief stint, obviously. But yeah, if you're talking about Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowick, yeah. You could have come up with a list of people to interview. Okay. I could have.

You're right. I could have. Would it have been the best list? And then would the interviews be conducted in the most? The interviews are a different animal. Okay. Okay. Well, if I'm going to have somebody involved with me in the interviews,

or help me with the interviews, I'll have them help me put together the list of candidates, too. Okay. and by the way, I just want to point out interviews, Barr Hurd blew a polling away in his interview. Leave it's silly. Blew away Mike Flanahan and Jim Beatty in his interview in Baltimore to be the Orioles manager.

All right. Well, I think what will happen, though, is I think that more likely than not that Bob Myers and Rick Spielman and the rest of the search committee will land on a GM or, you know, president of football ops hire. You know, Kime pointed out to me that this hire may be president of football ops, and they may hire, you know, a GM, but that'll be the chief.

Like they did in Washington, with the Wizards. Right, like they did with the Wizards, like they've done in a couple of places in the NFL. But that person is going to be the key football voice in the football person. And the other person will be almost, you know, kind of a borderline number one scout or talent evaluator along with that head of football ops. Well, thank God we've got so many great minds working on this. Well, you know what? I'll take this versus Dan and Vinny at Morton's sketching something out on the napkin. Yeah, I know it's not the choice.

It's also not unusual. The way it's being handled is not unusual. The only unusual thing, and you're right to say, let's just see how this works, is managing partner who owns, what does he own 30% of it? Doesn't he have to own 30% with 20, you know, limited partners owning the remainder of the team? I mean, he has obviously the voting shares. He can't get voted out, but he could get bought out at some. point at, you know, if you wanted to put together an offer like three years from now,

if the, you know, the 70% includes somebody that's also now made another 20 billion in some other business. And Josh Harris is sick of owning an NFL team and nothing good has happened. Who knows? I mean, it's a lot easier to buy out a 30% owner than it is a 99% owner. That's $6 billion. Wow, $6 billion. I'm trusting in the process. I'll leave you with that on ownership. Trusting the process.

All right. One quick thing I do want to mention, and that is that there's lots coming up at Do South in Navy Yard. Restaurant Week will be in full swing January 15th through the 21st, and Do South is turning up the heat with a three-course price-fifference. dinner for just $40. That's right, a starter, a mouth-watering entree, and a sweet treat to finish it off, all for the deliciously affordable price. Whether you're craving some crispy fried Brussels sprouts or diving into a plate of slow-cooked-pulled pork, Do South's got your taste buds covered, and that's not all. Mark your calendars. Do-South is throwing the hottest marty-graw party in town on Fat Tuesday,

February 13th. Get ready to let the Good Times roll with the legendary Cajun buffet at D-South, along with live music and beads galore. We're talking about the most authentic Mardi Gras experience outside of the Big Easy right here in the nation's capital. It's the party of the year, and you don't want to miss it. So grab your friends, bring your appetite, and join everybody at D-South for a week of unbeatable dining deals during restaurant week, and then the ultimate Mardi Gras. Bash in February. Good times, great eats. That's how they do it down south, and they're bringing it all to D.C. Learn more at Duesouth, D.C.com. I want to talk some NFL, including the end of that Saints Falcons game on Sunday. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. I know it's a miserable day out there. It's cold and wet and rainy, okay? This is where you need to rest, you're married gentlemen. You need to go to Shelley's back room at 1331 F Street, northwest in the district. That's where you'll find comfort

and joy. And if there's ever a day for comfort and joy, it's today with the winds and the rain. You know, if you're stuck at home and you're bored, you know, head out to Shelly's back room. You'll find a nice, warm atmosphere

and you'll have a meal. Shelly's makes it special with their special for today, the double-h burger, a half pound of Shelly's custom blend, Angus Ground Chuck, beef short ribs, and beef brisket, topped with honey ham and cheddar. Okay, that's comfort, that's joy. That's what you'll find. Despite the chaos going on outside, the weather just being so terrible,

It's warm and fuzzy and great in Shelley's backroom. Find out more at shelley's backroom.com. There is something very comfortable about being in a neighborhood bar atmosphere when the weather outside is shitty. You know? There's just something cool about sitting at a bar and people are coming in and they're bundled up or they're soaking wet and it's like, hey, take the coat off. come on over here and have a cold one with me.

Yeah. Shelly's would be that kind of spot for sure. Absolutely. All right. I did not on yesterday's show talk much about the final NFL Sunday of the year because obviously very busy yesterday. We didn't have time for any of that stuff. We were focused on everything that was going on with our franchise.

But the final weekend produced some drama. The game Sunday night between the bills and dolphins was great. The bills are a serious contender in the AFC. You know, whenever somebody says, yeah, the guy throws too many picks for me, they better not be talking about Josh Allen. That's all I've got to say, because I would take all of his picks and all of him tomorrow and deal the number two pick overall,

because he's a known great quarterback. He ended up this year, I think he was second behind Sam in interceptions. Sam led the league in interception, Sam Hal did with 21. Yeah, Josh Allen had 18. He's just a great quarterback and a great playmaker and a great competitor. I love everything about Josh Allen. I think Buffalo's got a chance. Miami's a banged up football team.

They were banged up the other night. it's going in the wrong direction for them. It's funny because they play a team that's kind of been going in the wrong direction in Kansas City in the first super wild card weekend. And then the Eagles who are going in the wrong direction play the Buccaneers, who beat the Panthers nine to nothing to get into the postseason. So the two, you know, the Saturday night game and the Monday night game are going to be interesting games because all four teams are not playing their best football.

But anyway, the game that I wanted to talk about was the Atlanta, New Orleans game, and the ending of this game. Some of you have probably seen this already. But if you haven't seen it, I'll set it up for you. So this was a meaningful game in that the winner would have won the division had Tampa Bay lost to Carolina. And that game was close throughout. That was a six to nothing game. The Panthers receiver, DJ Chark, did one of those things where he caught a ball and was running

into the end zone and then tried to reach out from the one yard line, lost control of it. It went through the end zone touchback. If not, the Panthers would have had a seven to nothing lead and they would have had a decent chance, I think, to win the game against the Buccaneers. But the winner of Falcon Saints, the loser was eliminated. The winner would win the division if Tampa Bay lost. And for the Saints, if they won the game, they'd still be alive for the war. wild card, even if the Bucks won and clinch the NFC South. So there was some meaning to the game.

Secondly, it got sideways in the second half. It was 17, 17 at halftime, and then the Saints just opened up a can of Wuppass on Atlanta and beat the snot out of them and took a 41 to 17 lead. And then late in the fourth quarter, there's an interception returned by the Saints down to the one yard line with a minute 10 to go in the game, up 41 to 17. So that's when the drama took place. So Jamal Williams, if you recall last year was in Detroit, he led the league in touchdowns with 17. He plays for the Saints this year, and he had not scored a touchdown the entire season this year. So with a minute 10 to go, the Saints up 41 to 17 got into victory formation at the one yard line. James Winston had checked into the game for the Saints. And Derek Carr was out at that point.

And Winston had, you know, the two running backs by his sides and the wide receiver that was lined up 15 yards behind in case the snap, you know, got away from them or whatever. And it looked like the Saints were going to take the knee because they were in victory formation, and then they would have taken a second knee. The clock would have run out 41 to 17 final. But that's not what happened from victory formation. From victory formation, they faked the kneel down and handed the ball off to Jamal Williams, who was in the backfield, and he scored a touchdown. 4817, Atlanta players were shocked, and at the end of the game, Arthur Smith, who has since been

fired, the head coach of the Falcons, came across the field and started screaming at Dennis Allen. What the fuck are you doing? What the fuck was that about? The whole thing. Arthur Smith fired later on that night. He was going to get fired anyway unless they made the playoffs. Atlanta had quarterback issues from the moment that Arthur Smith arrived. So Dennis Allen, the head coach of the Saints, who by the way, the reports are, he's staying. He's not going to get fired. That was a potential job opening in the last few weeks. He immediately said, you're right. Right back to Arthur Smith, he said, you're right.

That was wrong. And then opened up his press conference apologizing to Arthur Smith and the Atlanta Falcons. And he said, the plan was victory formation to take a knee. And the players decided to do something else. The players admitted it. James Winston admitted it. James Winston said, we got in the huddle. Jamal hadn't scored a touchdown.

And everybody wanted to hand the ball off to Jamal Williams and give him a touchdown for the year. So the instructions from the coach were ignored. In victory formation, they handed the ball off to Jamal Williams, and he scored the touchdown, and they ran it up on the Falcons winning 4817. For those of you that don't know, that is an intense rivalry. I don't think that's a rivalry NFL fans in general understand, but the Saints and Falcons, they don't like each other. the fan bases don't like each other.

It's been a rivalry for a long time. So I'll start with you. The Saints apologized. Then James Winston said it wasn't on the coach. It was on us. We didn't do what he told us to do. Jimmy Graham, the Saints' tight end, tweeted out yesterday. I found this to be interesting because it's like the second time this has happened with James

Winston in particular. He came to James's defense and he wrote, Get off James's back. The man is the best teammate I've ever had. Loves this city, this game, embodies everything you can ask for in a leader. Was a rare situation and we all take responsibility. Nobody thought it would get blown out of proportion. Also, fuck the Falcons.

That's what he tweeted out, all right? I thought it was interesting because everywhere James Winston has gone in the NFL, he's become a favorite of teammates, coaches, media members, fans, even though he hasn't been a very good quarterback anywhere he's gone. All right, I'll let you go first. What did you make of what the Saints did, what Arthur Smith's reaction was, etc. That's a got-stick of the situation if you're dead at Salon. James Winston has thrown 334 passes in four years for the New Orleans Saints.

he has no standing to do anything like that to embarrass the coach. It wasn't just him. Remember, it wasn't just him. It was everybody in that huddle. But he is, he's the coach's representative on the field. Yep. Okay. And for that's the got to go.

It's a simple thing. He's gone. He's gone. You know, you want to run your own game? You do it on another team. You've got to send a message on a situation. like that. You look weak. If your quarterback in a meaningless situation, you know,

undercuts you. I like that. What's you going to do when the game's on the line? And you've got to play called, and he wants to call something else. That guy's got to go. He's a backup quarterback. He's not worth a hassle. You know, Shannon Sharp took that position and said, it's got-to-go situation. You have to cut him on the spot. You have to cut them on the spot. You have to cut them on the

spot. It is basically insubordination, almost by definition. I mean, you're going against what your coach told you to do. And he is the quarterback. I agree with you. Even though everybody was apparently yucking it up in the huddle saying, let's not do this. Let's give the ball to Jamal. Let's score. He is the guy that controls the snap and he's the quarterback. And by the way, he's a veteran quarterback and should know better. So I don't know about cutting James. James Winston, in many ways, my biggest issue is with Dennis Allen, the fact that they would, you know, be so disrespectful to his wishes. It would concern me about Dennis Allen. I can't imagine. Can you imagine if they did that to like a coach with success, a Belichick or somebody like that? It would have been, you know, they would have been gone.

But there would have, he would have, that would have been, if a quarterback did that to Belichick, a backup quarterback, he would have spontaneously. combust it on the field. The thing about it was, let me start with Atlanta. I just, I was, I saw it on the, I was, I was tuned in at that point to the Red Zone channel and saw this, you know, replayed. And I'm like, Arthur Smith looks weak. I'm sorry. You just, it's professional football.

It was a classless thing to do. I should have started it the other way. Let me start with the Saints. Classless thing to do should never be done, all right? You don't run it up for the purposes of just you play this team twice a year. You don't think they're going to remember this. And then the second part of it is you get in victory formation and you do that so you run a trick play to score from the one. And Jamal Williams, by the way, I looked this up, didn't have any incentives.

Like it's not like if he went scored one touchdown. He got a $100,000 bonus or something for. every touchdown he scored. There was nothing to that effect. We've seen some of that here in recent years in the final week of the season. You get in victory formation and then you surprise them in running up the score. First of all, you could have gotten somebody hurt on the other side. They think you're going to kneel it down because you should have knelt it down and you were lined up to kneel it down. Somebody on defense could have been blocked and hit and had a knee taken out because they thought the game was over and you were taking a knee. You know, this isn't Dan Marino for.

fake spiking it and throwing a game-winning touchdown pass. I saw somebody on the internet trying to compare it to that. Shut the fuck up. How stupid can you be? It's 41-17. All right? This isn't a trick play. This is them lined up like they're going to take a snap.

And Atlanta's got absolutely no reason to believe they're going to run a play. Shouldn't have done it, classless. Definitely shouldn't have done it from victory formation. And Dennis Allen looks like a dope. And James Winston looks weak, too. I agree with all of that. From the Atlanta side, if that's my team and I'm the coach, I'm seething, I'm pissed. But there's no way I'm going to make it look like that when I come out to midfield.

This is not sixth grade rec ball or CYO. All right. Stop them if you don't like it. And I understand they were in victory formation, and that is the bullshit part of it. And I might afterwards reach out to Dennis Allen and say, what the fuck was that? that in victory formation. You could have gotten one of my players hurt. And he would have said, it wasn't me, man. And I would have said, all right, well, then sounds like you got a problem with your, but I would not have made the scene on national television that Arthur Smith did,

because I think he looked weak in that moment. It's professional football, you know. But I'll tell you one thing if I were Arthur Smith and I were coaching the team next year. And that would be number one on as big of a motivator as you could have had for the rematch. And if they ever gotten victory formation against me again, I'd take my most heartless player, my enforcer, whoever that is, and I'd say, go take the quarterback's knees out on this kneel down. You go hit him and you take him out if they got into victory formation against me. And then I would just say, we thought you were going to run another trick-trick play against us. Because that's what it-

You don't want to be on Kevin's list, do you? I would have, I would have never gone to midfield doing that, you know, knowing that, you know, it's professional football, but it would have- Yeah, I know, but he probably smelled that his, maybe. He probably smelled he was about to be fired. It would have certainly motivated the shit out of me for the next, for the rematch. and the whole thing was just a complete fiasco when you think about it. I mean, from a New Orleans standpoint. In terms of cutting James, I don't know, maybe, but Dennis Allen, man,

if I were the owner of that team, if I were the Bensons or they own the Saints, right, I'd be like, are you serious? Yeah, the daughter owns it. You told them to do that and they just ignored you? I mean, that would concern me about him. All right. Anything else? I got nothing else for you, boss. I need to look for some consultants to figure out what I'm going to do the rest of the day.

All right. Good job today. I appreciate you bringing it with the column and with the culture and with all of the cooks in the kitchen. You'll be back with me on Thursday and we'll pick playoff games this weekend. And maybe we'll have the new GM or the new president of football operations hired by that. It's possible. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens before the end of the week. All right, back tomorrow. License and registration, please.

We could do it that way. You asked me for my papers. I tell you it's not my car, that I borrowed it. See where things go from there? You could do that. Or you could go get in your car and drive away. Now, why would I do that? Because some roads you shouldn't go down.