The Kevin Sheehan Show - Commanders Add Kicker

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

Kevin opened with news of a new kicker in camp before talking to Mark Zuckerman/MASN in Phoenix following Arizona's sweep of the Nats. Sam Fortier/Washington Post jumped on to talk Commanders' camp and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. A thank you to Windo Nation to start this show today. Wind Donation's been our presenting sponsor for a while now. I appreciate all their support.

And all I'd ask you to sort of pay back that support on my behalf is if you've been thinking about new windows, just give them a chance to give you an estimate. call them at 86690 Nation or go to windonation.com. They'll come out to your home. They'll give you a quick, easy estimate and then they'll leave you alone. You can choose to do what you want to do, but you'll have an actual quote in your hand. Windonation, 86690 Nation or windonation.com. I apologize for getting the show out so late today.

I had an obligation this afternoon after the radio show. Although it does give us an opportunity to talk about some news that broke this afternoon, and that was related to the commander's roster. I'll get to that here momentarily. It also gives us a chance to go out to Phoenix and talk to Mark Zuckerman. He was there for the Nats, 5-4 loss this afternoon to Arizona. The Diamondbacks swept the Nats, but 5-4, not that bad compared to last. night's 17 to nothing loss where Patrick Corbyn was left in the game for three innings

to get absolutely torched. 13 hits, 11 runs, 10 of them earned on just 67 pitches. I say just he pitched just three innings. My God, how was he left in that game? Mark Zuckerman coming up. Sam 48 will join us on the show as well. All commanders with Sam starting in the second segment. So there were some roster moves today. Earlier today, the team re-signed wide receiver, Byron Pringle. Remember, Byron Pringle was here last year and brought in, really, I think, at the behest of Eric B. Enemy, because he had played with Eric B. Enemy and Andy Reed in Kansas City for the first three years of his career.

Played in all 17 games last year, caught 14 passes for 161 yards, but it was his returning that may be why Washington brought Byron Pringle back. Nine returns last year on kickoffs, an average of 27.9 yards per return. During his career, he averaged 26.9 yards per kickoff return. Now, the kickoff return rules are much different, but he is used to fielding kicks and returning them. And I'm wondering if that's why they brought him in, although they released two receivers

today. Demir Bird, who was certainly not expected to make the team. And Dax Milne, who's been a part of the team, but I don't think many thought he would make the team this year. Pringle in at wide receiver, Demir Bird and Dax Milne out. And then to fill out the 90-man training camp roster, late this afternoon, the team signed kicker Riley Patterson. Patterson's been in the league for four years. He's played for the Lions twice. He played for Jacksonville, and he played for Cleveland late last year. After Detroit's kicker came back, Hopkins in Cleveland got hurt. hurt, and actually Riley Patterson kicked in the playoff game that Cleveland had on the road against C.J. Stroud and the Houston Texans. But during his four seasons in the NFL, he has connected on 59 of 67 field goals, 88.1 percent, and 93 of 97 extra points.

In terms of distance, his career long is 53. and he is three for six, 50 plus. He's kicked in three playoff games. In 2022, or the playoffs that began in 2023 with Jacksonville, he was the kicker in that epic comeback by the Jags at home against the Chargers, and he kicked the walk-off field goal to complete the comeback on the final play of the game. The final score was 31 to nothing. Remember, the Chargers led that game at how.

halftime, 27 to 7, but they had a 27 to nothing lead in that game. Patterson kicked the following week in Kansas City was two for two on field goals and two for two on extra points in a 27 to 20 loss. And then last year for the Browns at Houston in the postseason, he did not attempt to field goal, but was two for two on extra points. So in three playoff games, three for three on field goals, six for six, on extra points. He was claimed off waivers from Jacksonville.

That adds a second kicker to the 90-man camp roster alongside Ramesh Ahmed. The word on Ahmed is struggle bus a little bit so far in camp. So now you've got two kickers as they get ready next week for work with the Jets in the joint practices and then the preseason game with the Jets a week from Saturday. Patterson, by the way, was replaced in Jacksonville by Brandon McManus, whom Washington signed in March but then released a few months later after he was accused of sexual assault during his time with Jacksonville. So there you go.

added to the roster, gives them another kicker. I think there's still a chance that the opening day kicker in Tampa isn't on the roster yet. But Patterson's got some experience, 39 games, 59 to 67 on field goals. He's kicked in some big time pressure spots as well. It's going to be important, too, for the kicker this year to be really effective at kicking off and trying to land that ball in the target zone from the 20 down to the goal line. And I really think somewhere inside the 15 and before, say, the 7 or 8 yard line will be the target for the kicker on a low kind of squib kick that's difficult to handle.

We'll see. Starting tomorrow night, the Hall of Fame game tomorrow night between Houston and Chicago. We'll see the kickoff rule and we'll see what it looks like. for the first time in the NFL. I wanted to read this email that I got from Stephen H. I read this on the radio show. We actually took calls on it for a couple of segments because I really thought it was, well, let me read it.

Stephen H wrote, your 10 and 7 prediction, Kevin, is ridiculous. I love that the old Kevin is back, but this team doesn't need these kinds of excellence. expectations. This is a season that should be about back to respectability. That's in quotes. Seven wins, three more than last year, would be hugely successful. Obviously with the idea that Daniels is good, but we don't need 10 wins this year. We need it next year and down the road. So, Stephen, where do I start with you? You're a miserable killjoy for starters. You're too pessimistic. You're too defeatist. You're too much of a quitter for me in this

conversation. And I don't have any problem with anybody's prediction. Like if you had said, my prediction is 7 and 10, I think you're way too aggressive. But I'm hoping it's the NFL, who knows. But to say we don't need 10 this year, we need it next year and down the road. Like if they were trending towards 10, no, stop it. We don't want 10 this year. we want it next year and beyond. Seven wins would be hugely successful. It's three more than last year. Look, everybody's entitled to their prediction.

I have no problem with the predictions that any of you make. And I understand my predictions a bit aggressive based on what we saw last year, although I do think last year had some circumstances around the 4 and 13 that, you know, made it look a lot worse than it was. would have been had those circumstances not been there. Really, what I'm talking about is a lame duck coaching staff for the most part. And the atmosphere that the lame duck staff kind of created in that building last year, it was dysfunctional from the start.

It was doomed from the start really on offense, even more so than on defense, even though the defense was awful last year. but I would never, as an NFL fan, rooting for a specific team, not think that there's a chance with a team like Washington's this year. You know, if I'm rooting for Carolina, if I'm rooting for maybe Arizona or maybe the Giants, I don't know, and I'm thinking of the AFC teams that are really, really bad. New England, okay, I understand that, let's just, try to get on the track to being competitive. But most of the teams, 25, 26 teams in this

league basically are health and a couple of bounces away from 9 and 8 versus 8 and 9 or 10 and 7 versus 7 and 10. Their good quarterback play away from 9 and 8 or 10 and 7 versus 8, 7, and 10. They're a better coaching staff, a better culture and atmosphere away from some of that stuff. It's the NFL, Stephen. Anything can happen. Washington isn't, I don't think, isn't the worst team in the league roster-wise. I don't think they're in the top half of the league. I think the discussion of their roster being like 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, I think that's exaggerated. And it's clearly exaggerated if Jaden Daniels can play.

I also think they've added enough. Remember, there are going to be probably half to more than half of the starters on opening day. New to the team. 52 of the 90 in camp are new to the team. The entire staff is new. The culture, the structure is new. I would never look at this particular team right now, the way it exists on July 31st and say, we don't need 10 this year.

Seven would be hugely successful. We might feel that way at the end of the year, but feeling that way at the beginning of the year is way too fatalistic for me. In the NFL, man, so much is possible with 25 to 26, 27, 27, 28 of the teams. Really, every year. You know, worst case, maybe 24 of the teams.

I mean, three-fourths of the teams are a couple of bounces and a couple of injuries one way or the other away from being very competitive. So I would never look at it that way. And God forbid the team ever viewed it that way. I guarantee you Adam Peters and Dan Quinn, AP and DQ aren't sitting around saying, look, we got to get seven, three more than last year. You know, we certainly don't need 10 this year. I mean, come on. All right. Rate us and review us if you get a chance on Apple and Spotify. Very helpful for us.

Subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Apple and Spotify as well. Let's bring on Mark Zuckerman, our good friend from Mass and Sports. He does the Nats chat podcast with Galdi. You can follow him on X on Twitter at Mark Zuckerman. He's out in Phoenix, which, by the way, is where he grew up. and he just witnessed another Nat's loss to Arizona. I want to talk to you about what Mike Rizzo did and didn't do prior to the trade deadline and maybe even talked to you about last night because you were there for it.

But I want to start with McKenzie Gore. It wasn't the best of outings today, but he's been really shaky recently, in 8.27 ERA in the month of July before today's start. And he's supposed to be the ace of the staff moving forward. Is there concern about McKenzie Gore right now? I think they are concerned just that he has not shown the consistency that he would love to have him. I still think at his best, he is really good and even better than Jake Urban, who has been excellent for them this year. Our ace-like. The problem is when he doesn't have them.

that he hasn't been anything close to it and certainly in the last month there been a bunch of these really abbreviated start where the pitch count gets out of control and he gets knocked out early. I thought today was a lot better from him. He said it was a good step forward for him. It wasn't great. Not at all. He didn't, you know, at one strikeout and it's five and a third. But he got quicker out and he kept the pitch count down. And for him, he said it was important to see that even on a day and maybe his stuff wasn't at his best and he wasn't getting the swings and misses that he often does, that the final line in the end was three runs allowed as opposed to six, seven, eight that we've seen him. In the past, when he probably had better stuff and actually felt better about the way his pitches were coming out on the mouth.

What happened to this team from the moment and call it late June right around there you would know better than I? When they were battling to get back to 500, they were overachievers, certainly as it relates to start. starting pitching. Have they just sort of been worn down by the season? I think that sounds like, yeah. I think the pitching, and I think we knew it was probably inevitable, was going to come back to Earth as great as they looked as a group early on. The idea of them all keeping that up, and the bullpen being as good as it was as well, was maybe too much to ask until you saw some of that start to come back to Earth. You've actually, I think, seen the offense get a little better. They're very inconsistent.

They can score 14 runs one night and get shut out. The next, and that part's frustrating. I think overall they scored more runs. I think it's really been a product of the pitching, and they had a grueling stretch of schedule prior to the All-Star break, 17 games in a row going into the break without an off date, and that caught up for sure. They were dragging at the end of that.

And since then, it's been bizarre because they look great against the reds and swept them. They look terrible against the Padres and got swept. they look good in St. Louis winning two out of three, and then they get swept in Arizona. So it's really been inconsistent. I know that's frustrating because those guys in there who felt like they could keep themselves hovering in that 500 range, and now obviously it didn't happen. But I don't think it necessarily takes away from the bigger picture of what they've done. I think there's still a chance here for them to finish the year strong and feel like they have a good base going in the next year.

Yeah, they lost five to four, by the way, for those that didn't pay attention to the season. afternoon in Arizona. They got two runs in the night. They actually had a chance in the last at bat, but didn't get it done. So they ended up getting swept by the Diamondbacks five to four. Before we get to your overall summary of what Mike Rizzo did before the trade deadline, just describe James Woods first, what is it, 24, 25 games? Well, I talked about how the lineup is been inconsistent. Sometimes it looked great, sometimes not good at all. That's been James Wood to achieve.

His first week in the big league, it looks fantastic, especially in his patience at the plate and drawing, I think it was more walking and strikeouts that first week and hitting the ball really hard, even if it wasn't necessarily producing hit. There was a lot of hard contact on the ground. Well, his second week, a week and a half or so,

all of a sudden, pitchers start to figure them out. they're not giving him as many fastballs, and they're feeding him a lot of breaking balls, especially early in the count, and he was chasing and didn't draw a walk, I think, over about 50-week-played appearances. You could see the difference that was making. And then he flipped a little switch here, I think, in the last week,

much more patient. He had a great at that in the ninth inning of this game. Could have driven in the tie and go-ahead runs, and I'm sure he attempted to do it, but he worked himself to a three-two count and then laid off and threw the walk to load the bases. I know the guys behind him didn't get. it done. But I thought that was a big moment for a 21-year-old not to get too worked up in the

moment and think he had the swing. He didn't get the pitch he wanted and he let it go, and that was fine. So he's hitting the ball very hard. He is starting to elevate it, which has been good. The patience is coming back. I think he's going to be just fine. They know with him this isn't going to be a case of all if he struggles there's to worry about setting him back down. He's here to say they're going to ride it out with him good and bad. tries to press off him. He's in a prominent spot in the lineup already, both because of his performance

and because of who they've traded, and it seems like he's handled that well. So a big picture, I don't think there's a whole lot to be upset with James Wood so far. Real quickly, last night, I mean, how do they keep sending Patrick Corbyn out there for those that missed it?

They lost 17 to nothing. Patrick Corbyn actually was left in there to face the music for three innings, He gave up 13 hits, 13 hits, 11 runs, 10 of them earned on 67 pitches. I know he's a grinder, and I know that his attitude is such that he doesn't mind seeing it through. But at that point in the second inning, when he faced, I think, seven consecutive batters that got on base and 11 batters in the inning, 99 times out of 100, that pitcher is getting pulled. why didn't Davey pull him?

Yeah, exactly. The 11 runs are the most ever given up by a pitcher in national history. The reason for that is because you don't ever let a guy get to that point. Yeah. You get to that up. You pull him way before that. But it does, as you said, say something about Corvin and the way they treat him and what else they have.

I think the feeling there was, as long as his arm is okay, and the pitch count wasn't getting to be too high, but they would rather save the bullpen and just make him. him wear it and understand that that game's a lost cause already. You hate to do that. But if there's one guy that they would do it with, it is him. It has been quite the journey for him, of course, over these last several years. He doesn't make excuses for it.

He takes the ball every fifth day. They appreciate that about him, even though the results obviously haven't been anywhere close to good enough to their liking. But, you know, until they have five better options, and I thought they were close to it, A few weeks ago, Josiah Gray looked like he was coming back, and then his last rehabs already hurt his elbow, and now he had Tommy John surgery. So until there's another option that's better,

I think they're just going to keep trotting him out there and saying the innings he does provide them are important because he's taking them away from young guys who they need to watch their innings limit over the rest of the year. It's unfortunate, it's frustrating for everybody, but this is where we are with him. All right, I want to finish up with you with having you just summarize all of the moves,

that were made prior to the trade deadline, including the one that I think everybody expected to be done but wasn't, and that would be Kyle Finnegan. So I think you really have to divide up all the potential trade candidates into two categories. There were the guys who were the one-year rental, Jesse Winker, Dylan Floreau. They were going to be traded all along for whatever the best thing they could get for them was. And that's fine. These are guys they signed over-the-winter minimal deals. bounce back candidate. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, and prospects for down the

road. So those worked out great. The other category were the guys who have another year of control before they could become free eight. And that's Kyle Finnegan, Hunter Harvey, and Lane Thomas. So the question all along with them was, is the asking price that Mike Rizzo wants to them? He's going to get what he wants for them? And if not, does he view them as being a part of a team in the case of Hunter Harvey? He got a great, including a young third base, and actually a draft but really was tough. In the case of Lane Thomas, they got a 19-year-old,

really high-end starting pitcher. Who knows how it's going to work out with that? 19 years old, but you take the chance, and the fact that they have Dylan Cruz waiting in the wing in the minor league, I think allowed them to move on

from Thomas and feel like he didn't have to be a part of next year's team. In the case of Finnegan, once you've traded Harvey, you don't have another closer in waiting. And so, while I think he would have moved Finnegan if he got the right price,

for him. We don't know what exactly he was asking for, but I was told it was a lot. Think that this is a guy who should be closing for them next year, and if he didn't have Finnegan any longer, he was going to have to go find another closer, which usually cost a lot of money or prospects in a trade. So I think that's really what it boils down to. Now it's up to Kyle Finian to prove that he can be an elite closer on a team that's trying to win next year. I mean, overall, what grade would you give Rizzo for this trade deadline activity? It's so hard to know because it's going to be years. I know.

What's your hunch? What are people saying? My hunch is that it was. Yeah, people were really impressive what they got for Harvey in particular, and they thought that Lane Thomas was a good return. There were questions about whether other teams viewed Lane Thomas as favorably as the national did. Well, Cleveland clearly viewed him favorably because they gave up a lot for him, and they threw them right with their lineup number two hitter on his first game there.

So they liked him. So between the Harvey and Thomas trades, And like I said, Winker and Flora, you get what you can for them. I think those are all a win. I think the one that will tell us in the long run, was it worth it or not, was Finnegan because if he's really good next year and is an elite closer on a team that contends, then it was worth it. If he falls apart, which with relievers, you never know because they're so volatile year-to-year.

If he falls apart, then you're going to go back and say, man, they blew it. They should have traded him when his value was so high. I think overall the feeling is that he did a good job. Finnegan will be the decider in the end of whether it's a great trade deadline or just a good one for it. Mark Zuckerman calling in, and I appreciate it from his hometown of Phoenix, Arizona. Enjoy your time out there. Thanks for doing this.

We'll talk soon. You got it, Kevin. Thanks a lot. Mark Zuckerman, everybody. Sam Fortier will jump on with me next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag for all of your sports betting needs. We've got NFL preseason football kicking off tomorrow night.

Washington next week on Saturday afternoon against the Jets and the Meadowlands. All of the week one lines are up currently. Tampa Bay, a three and a half point favorite over Washington in week one. My bookie's a fair shop, fair point spreads, money lines. totals, all of the futures bets are up. You're not going to overpay on losses. MyBooky.ag promo code, Kevin D.C. If something's written in the promo code section,

when you go to sign up, just erase it and write Kevin D.C. Jumping on with me right now is one of my favorites. Sam 48 does such a great job covering the team for the Washington Post. Follow him on X at Sam. for TR. He's been at camp for a week now. We're at a week since the first practice last Wednesday. And I'll just start off by asking you if you've got a big takeaway from the first, you know, six, seven practices. It have to be that Jaden Daniels at least briefly, at least in the limited, you know, practice we've seen him with pads on has burst into the vision that they had for him on draft night

he's not getting tackled he's not in game so it's hard to say he has the dual threat elusiveness element but certainly especially tuesday of practice he pushed the ball down the field they went vertical cliff schemed up some deep shots and and he hit several of them to terry mcclorn and terry mcclorn was so fired up that when he ran over to uh to the sideline he said that stuff is money. I'm telling you that stuff is money. And then in the press conference afterwards, John Dawson said he was just extremely verbose, or hyperbolic, I should say. And he was like, Terry McLaren is the best go-ball receiver in freaking NFL history. Benjamin St. Juice and Emmanuel Forbes are going to be two of the better corners in the NFL this year. And it's just like,

he was just so over the top, and I was like, John, like, why are you so confident right now? And he basically said, Jaden Daniels is making me that way, and he was like, look, man, Terry and I were talking on the sideline, and his ball placement is ridiculous. It makes our jobs easier. It's where we can get it in the corners can't. And it's a special talent,

and you just got to realize, like, not everybody can do that. And so to me, Jaden Daniels, at least so far, is showing that. But, Kevin, I'm sure you remember around this, this time last year. We were talking about how Emmanuel Forbes looked incredible. So I'm taking him with a great assault, but he's certainly, you know, given optimism

through one week. I actually thought you were going to say something else, and I was going to ask you about it. And that is, do you think that we've kind of heard similar things in past years about quarterbacks? Most notably, last year, you know, Terry's been incredibly positive. It's just

the way he is, and I love that about him, that he's super positive publicly about his teammates and about his quarterbacks. But I'm wondering if you think we heard very similar things a year ago, specifically about Sam Howl. Yeah, absolutely. And I would say that going back for as long as Terry's been here, but I think that like the emotional, and this might actually say more about Terry than it does about the quarterback, but the emotional outburst on the sideline to be like, you know, that stuff is money. and for Jahan to be so over the top, I mean, maybe it's just those guys,

Terry becoming a more vocal leader, and Jahan being in his third year, trying to rebound off his last year, trying to see what he wants to see, kind of like with John Allen in the locker room last year, you're saying, oh, you know, Sam Hal is the guy, we finally found the guy, and then obviously not having found the guy,

um, maybe people are seeing what they want to see, but I do think there is legitimate optimism, and maybe I'm just reading into his draft status, but, uh, I do think that the optimism around Jaden is more real. Well, I'm thrilled to hear that, and it doesn't surprise me to hear that.

Part of it could be, though, just what they've had him to compare to over the last couple of years, right? I mean, the bar was pretty low with the quarterback play since Terry got here, since John's gotten here. So perhaps that's playing into it as well. what do you think the coaches are thinking right now about Jaden Daniels? Because, you know, Dan Quinn said the other day there's less talk internally about Jaden than there is externally. But what level of excitement do you think they have right now? The fact that we have focused on Jaden Daniels for the first five minutes of our conversation, I'm sure, is giving Adam Peters and Dan Quinn the willies because, like, they want to do everything they can

to keep him managed. Is that the right word? I don't know. I think they want to manage expectations. Good. I think a good example is like if you go out to Commander's Park, you know, the ads for training camp, it's not Jaden's face splashed everywhere. He has, you know, one cutout in the promotional material just like everybody else.

And so I think that, like, they are doing their best to say Jaden Daniels, one Washington commander, not Jaden Daniels, the Washington commander. And, you know, I understand why they're doing that. I still have to think they're going to be really optimistic about what he can do on the field, but I think they are trying to minimize that publicly as much as possible. Sam's been really good as a reporter in town at really delving into strategies, advanced numbers, et cetera. And I've enjoyed that about you, whether it's been conversations on the air or even off of it

and reading you as well. So I am curious because we haven't had a lot of conversation about this yet. What you're expecting, maybe what you've been seeing with respect to what Cliff Kingsbury's offense will look like when we get to the regular season. Pushing the ball down the field, you know, quick, quick passing game. I think you're going to see a better run game, actually, is the thing that I'm most interested in because we know what, like, you know, Cliff is going to get in shotgun. He's going to use pistol.

He's going to do, I think, a lot of the same things that he did with Kyler. But to me, the area of growth for him, and the thing that Zach Ertz said was most different from his time in Arizona is the run game. And if you remember, like, Cliff, when he left Arizona, one of the big criticisms was he did not marry the run in the past game. And one of the reasons why play action isn't as effective as it should be is because, you know, he doesn't mirror those things. And so when you hire a guy like Anthony Land to come in and coordinate the run game,

you have to assume that you're going to take a step forward in that area. And I think, you know, a part of this also is, you know, Zackert saying that he thought Cliff was rejuvenated. It was the happiest he'd ever seen him. Yeah. And so if you have a happy Cliff Kingsbury scheming up, you know, a new past game, that's got to give you some optimism. And I think he'll rely on old staples and mix a new twist.

Yeah, I thought that that was an interesting comment from Ertz the other day. I also thought Ertz mentioning that the big difference between here and in Arizona is the run game, but he said it was specifically because of the offensive line coach, you know, Bobby Johnson. But it's really the combination, right, of Johnson and Lynn being in charge of the run game. Yes, absolutely. And I think that Bobby Johnson, you know, when he was up in Buffalo, you know, kind of scheming up with a moment. and obviously some in New York with Daniel Jones, but I think scheming the run game for a quarterback

is going to be very interesting because obviously Jayden Daniels has run zone read forever, and he's gotten out on the edge, and that's what makes him really good as a runner. But I still think the one question that we can't answer right now, Kevin, is, you know, how much are they willing to run him at his frame, considering some of his penchant for taking big hits? I think that may be overblown.

you know, when you go back and watch the film, but he does take some huge hits, especially his last year at LSU. And so how comfortable will you be scheming up, what, five, six design runs a game, maybe fewer? But like, if that is going to be a big part of his game, will he protect himself? And how do you make those things work in concert? But yes, Bobby Johnson, the offensive line coach being a big part, I think, of how they're going to be different in the run game than they were, maybe in Arizona with Kyla. Yeah, I think this is the interesting thing. Right, because you and I have had this conversation before. My personal belief is that Jaden Daniels, you could plug him into almost any scheme offensively and he'd be effective.

I think, you know, a Shanahan-style scheme with a lot of zone runs inside, outside, play action, bootleg off of it would work because I think he can throw the ball very well on the run. I think he throws it very well from the pocket. I don't think you need a Lamar Jackson-style, you know, under Greg Roman anyway offense, where he is a legit dual threat and there are multiple designed runs, lots of option runs. And he's, you know, he is a part of the run game. I don't think you need that. But it's certainly something that Jaden Daniels has done and would be great at.

So what they land on, I think, is just going to be so interesting. Because I think they've got a lot of options, don't you? Absolutely. I think that, you know, to be the pressure of the quarterback's coach, gives me a hard time sometimes about, I call Cliff's offense air raid, and he's like, well, it's reductive to call it air raid because they do something that are not. And I guess, you know, after some conversations with people in the building, I would call it air raid adjacent.

But I think that, like, when they're saying, hey, it's reductive to call this thing air raid, because it's multiple or whatever you want to say. Like, we can do a bunch of different things. Like, I think you'll see Jayden Daniels get under center some this year, you know, whether it be, you know, for play. action or, you know, insert maybe in the red zone, I think that he can do a lot of different things to your point. And so while they'll probably major in shotgun and pistol and some of the things that you just mentioned, I think they do have the ability to change things up. And that's a,

that's a really exciting prospect for any offense, right? Why do you call it air raid reductive? Because, you know, I remember and have watched a lot of, you know, Hal Mummy, Mike Leach, etc. all the way through guys like Kingsbury. And I'm not even sure that true air raid is even possible in the NFL, but I'm curious as to why you think it's, you know, air-rated Jason. I think Tevita Pritcher of the quarterback's coach and Bobby Johnson, the offensive line coach, both told me that they don't think air raid is an accurate description of Cliff's offense because he's not just, and I think they're thinking about it

in the most caricatured ways. Like lots of pass overrun. lots of kinds of a run, four receiver sets, just like, you know, tons of... No tight ends. Yeah. Yes, exactly. But I think that this is going to be different. I think they're going to use two tight-end sets, maybe even some three tight-end sets.

I think he's going to be more balanced in the past and run game. And, you know, in Arizona, like, Cliff threw a lot. But he was more balanced phase than E.B. was last year. And so I think they're trying to temper expectations because even though Cliff, obviously wants to throw the ball, even though he has his roots in the air raid, and I think you'll see a ton of that stuff show up. It is more nuanced, and I'm particularly interested in the run game to see how they do that. But look, I mean, I think they just want to temper expectations because if you say air rate,

I think people just imagine you're going to be throwing it 70% of the time and doing some of the stuff we talked about. And they didn't do that during their 11 and 6 season in Arizona, and perhaps the run and pass weren't married that well. Perhaps it's because they had a five-foot, you know, nine-inch, five-foot-ton-ton-inch quarterback, too, who struggled to see over the line of scrimmage with any kind of play action. But they ran it, I think it was, wasn't it 56-44 passed a run in that final season, in that 11-6 season? Yeah, I think it was even lower than that if you just look at like score-neutral situations,

meaning like the clock or the scoreboard doesn't dictate that you have to pass a run. And I would say the other part is like, I would say that if you look at Cliffs' first year in Arizona, he did use four receiver sets a ton. I think it was like something like 20% of the time. It's the most that anyone has used four receivers sets in the league in like the last 20 years, something like that. And then it like steadily decreased every year. And so one of the things I'm fascinated by, especially because in training camp, you know,

they've been mostly in 11 personnel, right? And the three receivers have been Terry, John, and Diamie Brown. And like for me, Dehemi Brown is a guy who I thought, coming into this camp, oh, he's definitely on the bubble of the roster. Like, this guy has not produced consistently over a meaningful stretch in his three years here. But with his speed, with the deep ball receiver that he is, and with the amount of number one snap that he's been getting, and that could obviously change.

But I thought to myself, oh, I wonder if Cliff would go back to experimenting with some of those four receivers sets if he feels like he is a quarterback who can, you know, hit four verts on a regularity that he hasn't had the past. Right. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think in many ways with Kyler Murray, there were limitations that he's not going to have with Jaden Daniels because of the height difference. Absolutely. And I asked E.B. last year, like, you know, why don't you get Sam under center more? I think that was a discussion, especially because of the rookie quarterbacks that were having success by getting under center or the young quarterback, they should say, with Brock Purdy and C.J. Stroud.

and a lot of the Shanahan system guys would get under center because that, you know, the hard play action you get getting under center is just a different look than the token action out of shotgun. Well, because you also turn your body, they don't see the ball. You know, shotgun, the ball never leaves sight of that front seven or back seven. Right. And essentially, you know, Evie said to me that basically it was a hype thing, and I think it also wasn't experiencing. Sam hadn't done it a ton.

Whereas, and I know that Jaden was in gun a ton at LSU, but if you go back and watch his first year at Arizona State, it's not all the time, but he does get under center with more regularity. And so I think that, like, it's definitely possible now. Yeah. You know, James Connor, who is built almost exactly like Brian Robinson, Jr. In fact, I think their running styles are somewhat similar. I mean, he carried the ball, and they're 11 and 6 season,

when they went to the postseason, and the postseason game was an absolute dud. I mean, they got blown out in L.A. by the Rams. But he rushed 200-plus times that year for close to 800 yards and 15 touchdowns. I know other people have said this, and I'm wondering what your opinion is, and you've sort of alluded to it to a certain degree, but Brian Robinson, Jr. may end up being a big part of what we see, especially in Jaden's rookie year. Absolutely. I think you're going to see Cliff, you know, try to make things easy on his rookie quarterback and try to do things that make him comfortable.

And LSU's offense, obviously, was super explosive last year, and they had a ton of playmakers made a good line. And that's one of the things I'm curious about is without a significant talent advantage, you know, on the perimeter that he had with Brian Thomas and the league neighbors and with the offensive line and the left tackle who's probably going to go, you know, top ten of the draft next year. like, is Jaden going to be able to adapt to his circumstances? I think he will. I mean, he has certainly in college in the past, but Brian Robinson, to more directly address your point is like, I think he's a big part of that, you know, especially because Brian, with his frame and his running style,

I don't think has held up as much as well as he would like to throughout season for his first two years. And so I think that, you know, what role do they imagine for him? How do they split it with Echler? that's going to be a really fascinating approach for me. You know, it's interesting, and I just looked this up as you were talking and answering that question. In 2021, the year the Cardinals won 11 and 6, they had the seventh most rushing attempts in the NFL.

Now, I understand that some of those rushing attempts were, you know, quarterback runs. And by the way, more scrambles than designed runs in 2021 with Kyler Murray. But James Connor and Chase Edmonds, combined for 318 carries. So, you know, Kyler Murray had 88 rush attempts that season. So if anybody wants to say air raid or we're going to get, you know, it's going to be 70, 30, passed or run, seventh in the league in rush attempts in 2021,

the most successful season Cliff Kingsbury had in Arizona. Tell me your thoughts right now about the offensive line and then how it will look opening day at Tampa. Well, here's the thing is I want to actually go back to the rush attempts real quick. I think the other thing that this telegraph is, and I don't know if it's easy for you to look it up while I'm filibustering, but I mean, I would be curious to know how many total plays they ran that year, especially compared to the rest of the league, because Cliff Kingsbury, one of the things that he's going to do is go tempo.

Like, he loves to know how defenses respond to Tembo. And so I think that you're going to see them run more total plays this year. And so, you know, does that fit what this team does? Is it going to be what they're good at? I don't know yet. But I think that Brian Robinson even said it, you know, in the spring, like, oh, we are going to go up-tempo more. And so you're going to see more plays total, I think, for sure. The second part of your, do you want me to stop or do you want to go on the office?

You asked for it. You got it. Arizona was eighth in 20-21 in total offensive plays per game. interesting that's actually lower than I expected yeah um you know a lot some of the you know it was Baltimore Dallas Tampa Casey Chargers Buffalo Tennessee and then Arizona was 8 averaging 65.6 offensive snaps per game hmm I would have expected because of because of pace you're saying right yeah just because I think I think Cliff will go hurry up more than you, another, you know, everything, but that's either here or there. Like, you know, I think that he is going to do it more often.

And that, like, that's one of the things I'm going to be tracking early in the season for sure, because I know that that's, you know, something that's in his DNA. So the offensive line? Yes, the offensive line, I mean, basically Dan Quinn said the other day, the only starters who are locked in, the auditship center, Cosni, a right guard, and he thinks that Nick Allegredi at left guard is almost there, still splitting some reps with Michael Dieter. The tackles are really interesting because you have, I think, three main guys and then a fourth guy sort of on the peripheral competing for those

two tackle spots. We've seen, you know, Brandon Coleman, the rookie, and the veteran Cornelius Lucas at the two tackle spots, you know, probably most. And then Andrew Wiley, who was out with a, quote-unquote, tightness injury, unclear what that was about. but he has been, you know, Summit right tackle, and then Trent Scott, kind of that fourth guy looming there. And so it's hard for me to say right now, it's just too early to say, like,

what's going to happen, but like, you know, Kevin Sheehan, radio show, you know, we need a prediction from you. I would probably say, Lucas at left and Coleman at right, maybe flip-flop,

and then Andrew Wiley is a swing tackle. That's just like, that's not a reporting. Like, I'm not reporting that, but that's just like my vibes read. I'm curious if you had the same reaction I did last week when Dan Quinn said, he was asked about some of the areas of weakness on the team. And he said, what's interesting is that some of the perceived weaknesses externally are actually more thought of as strengths internally.

Look, the number one perceived weakness on the outside. looking in is the offensive line. And I thought he was thinking of that when he said that. And hence, they're not as concerned about it as the outside is. Did you take it that way? What made you think that it was O-line? Because he said sometimes the perceived weaknesses externally outside the building are actually, you know, internally thought of as strengths.

And what's the number one perceived? external weakness and discussed weakness about this football team. The offensive line. No, I hear you. I think when I heard him say that my thought was, okay, he could be talking about O'Line. He could be talking about corner. He could be talking about a couple positions. So I didn't necessarily go straight to O'Line.

And to me, like, especially because he wasn't more specific, I certainly interpreted that with a level of skepticism about, oh, just kind of like vanilla-co. coach speak. You know, like the coach is always going to try to help up the team, protect everybody. Because he's talking to the locker and what he's talking about. I still think the O-line is clearly the biggest weakness on the team. You could argue outside corner and I think that you'd have a fair point. But like, when you're talking about protecting a franchise quarterback in his first year and letting him develop in the proper way or the way you'd want him to,

I still think O-line is a big concern. So, I mean, that would be great if if the commanders for them, if they think the O-L-L-line is actually a strength. But I'm still skeptical, Kevin. All right, let's take a quick break. Sam's going to stick around for a bit. I'm going to ask Sam about the in-game strategist that they hired in the offseason. And we'll get to some defense as well, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought you by Windon Nation.

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Mention my name, but call them at 86690 Nation or visit Windonation.com. We continue with Sam You asked a really good question last week at one of the pressers, and it was, you know, who's going to help you with a lot of the, you know, in-game management. And they hired this guy, Dave Garty. And the answer was Dave Garty. Dave was in the league office for like two decades, and Washington hired him during the offseason to be the senior vice president of football initiatives. But he's going to have game day responsibilities. these. So describe what you think Dave Gardy's job will be on game day. Yeah, so game management is kind of a broad mandate, right? It certainly includes things like,

do we challenge this replay, or do we call this timeout here? How do we manage our timeout? And so it could also include things like, do we go for the two-point conversion or how aggressive are we going to be on fourth down? And I think that it's important to say, like, Garty, I assume, will be a guy who has all this information, and he will communicate with Dan on the headset, but there will also be other people on the head set, and it is ultimately Dan's job to make those decisions. But when I think back to last year, for example, against Philadelphia, when Philly, I came up for it was Devonte or AJ, but, you know, they hit a deep shot down the field,

and he, like, pretty clearly didn't catch the ball, but Ron did not challenge whether it was a catch, you know, that's 40, 50, free yards that they got. So I think what, how you should imagine Dave Gardy is just like an eye in the guy whose job it is to win on the edges, to hopefully be better at game management than they were under Ron Rivera. And obviously, like, in a league with such thin margins, like, you need guys like that because this league has, you know, Josh Harris talks about all the time, the salary cap,

blah, blah, blah, like you need edges in player health in game management and things like this. And so Dave Garty, I imagine, is going to be a guy who you don't talk about a ton, but when he matters, he's going to really matter. Yeah, I'm interested in this guy, too, because the way they've kind of spoken about him, the few times they have, they've kind of described the hire as a real get, like this was a guy that was sought after. Have you felt the same way? Oh, absolutely. I mean, when they announced it, I can't remember who reported it. it was like highly respected league, you know, veteran.

He's been at the NFL league office for 20 years. So, I mean, he understands deeply how the league office works, and I'm sure that, like, in ways that we don't know or, you know, behind the scenes, like he is going to be, you know, giving the new ownership group a lot of information on how the league office works and how they can use that to their advantage. So, you know, in both game management ways, and I'm sure, you know, just in day-to-day operations ways, this is, I think, like,

it's the opposite of signing the splashy over the hill veteran free agent who like sell some tickets. This is the negative of that. He's also probably one of those guys because you're this way and I'm this way that during the games, he's like, oh my God, what are they doing? Why would you possibly, why would you call a time out there? Or why aren't you calling a timeout? I bet he's one of those guys in the reputation grew over the years. God, this guy would be great at a lot of the stuff that a lot of the coaches don't handle well. Let's flip it to defense. You talked about corner, and let's do the Kevin Sheehan radio show podcast thing.

Give me, other than Mikey Sanry still as the slot corner when they're in Nickel. Who are the two outside corners that line up on opening day against Tampa Bay? Emmanuel Forbes and Benjamin St. Chis, and that's just going off. the reps that I've seen so far. Michael Davis, a 2018 charger, obviously near and dear to my heart as that was my first job covering that team. And now there's three of them, Trent

Scott and Michael Davis and Austin Hekler in Washington. But, I mean, I think he's a competitive guy. He could get in there. A Newseum, the Colorado State Corner, the undirected free agent this year, he could earn a role. You know, Dan Quinn has, especially in the secondary in the past,

has shown, you know, UGFA's in Atlanta, like, they can, they can earn big role. There's other guys in that competition there, but at least so far, what we've seen, Forbes and St. Juice, but I think also, Kevin, the important caveat there is, if you're going to play for Joe Witt, corners got a hit. And, you know, obviously we saw last year, Emanuel wasn't always willing to do that. And so does that hurt him as he tries to lock down a starting role here? I think it's totally possible, but we won't have good data on that, good information, until we watch the games and we see whether or not a manual can hit.

Where does Kwan Martin fit into all of this? Because he definitely fits in, but how? Oh, I think he's like the starting, one of the starting safeties, absolutely. And when they go three safety sets, you know, it's probably Shane Martin and Percy Butler, maybe DeFoe works in there. But I think Kwan Martin, Dan Quinn said the other day, he's going to be one of the best tacklers on the team. and I think he's a day one starting safety for sure.

Who are the two kickoff returners? That's a really good question. I think, you know, Sanford, I mean, Dan Quinn pointed out Sanrisville was excelling at it the other day, and obviously you have Crowder who has experience and, you know, other guys. But I think that that's something that they're still trying to figure out is, hey, how do we figure out the kickoff returner situation? And they said, you know, because of the new rules where you can, can't build up as much of a head of steam.

Like, I think maybe they'd be more willing to use bigger role-type players such as San Francisco in kickoff situations, whereas in the past you might not have been willing. All right. All right. Number one, give me a player that we're not thinking about right now. When I say we're not thinking about fans and many people in the media that ends up being a big contributor in 2024. And then give me the player that ends up being the surprise cut, at least based on what we're

thinking right now. As a matter of policy, I'm not going to do the surprise Kyle one. It's just too early. I think like they don't know yet. I mean, the popular answer there is like, Jamin, right? And I actually... All right.

Well, just tell me what you think of Jamin Davis right now and his chances to play in how they would fit him in. I would say like he has probably a little bit worse than 50-50 odds to make the team. And that's because, you know, in his reps at edge rusher, he has not looked impressive. because he's small, like Brandon Coleman and Braden Daniels and some of those other, you know, less experienced tackles have stonewalled him on some rushes. But at the same time, if I think to myself, like, okay, you know, what is the number one thing that this team was looking for in the draft? And it's like high athleticism guys.

And like, yes, I know that Jamin is not young and is not a team captain or some of the other things that they look for in the draft. but I just he's a really athletic guy who can do different things and so like I just think that they would like traits like that and so they're trying to like cross-traignment cross-trainment edge rusher maybe for like specific passing situations so I go back and forth on that but ultimately I would say probably a little bit worse than 50-50 odds right now all right so what about the player that surprises everybody and ends up being a big 2024 contributor I think the answer could be Jordan McGee, the fifth round pick from Temple, the linebacker. If you remember at the Commander's Caucus, I talked with assistant GM Lance Newmark, and he said the commander's caucus before day through the draft, everybody, the coaches, the scouts, the personnel guys, got in a room,

and everybody basically voted, who do we want on day three, not like to use for their first pick necessarily, but like, who do we have to compete hard to sign the UDFA? It basically who's your favorite guy? and the overwhelming favorite from that room was Jordan McGee. And at practice the other day, you know, when there were first team reps, like Jordan McGee was out there in the three linebacker set with Louvo and Wagner. And, you know, Dan Quinn has spoken very highly of him at the podium.

And I talked to him the other day. And he just, he talked about wanting to play fast, he's super athletic and learning subtle things. Like I saw that Zach Ertz beat him on a crossing route. And I was like, you know, how did he do that? And McGee was like, yeah, look, like, he outside released, he got like a little bit of, he got his elbow into me and like chicken winged me away a little bit to create just enough separation,

you know, for, for Jaden to hit hurts over the middle. And to me, that is like, that is a veteran, you know, doing what Logan Paulson calls the dark arts of route running on a rookie.

And I think that, like, McGee saying, hey, I recognize that. I got to be prepared for that. And, and,

and, you know, trying to use this camp to better himself. I would say he's going to be, he's not, you know, Lover Wagner, obviously. I think that he's someone that could have really some solid contributions for this team in 2024. Sam Fortier, everybody. Thanks for doing this, as always. Really appreciate it. Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. All right, we are done for the

day back tomorrow with Tommy.