The Kevin Sheehan Show - Commanders' LBs #1 In NFL?

Episode Date: August 16, 2024

Kevin opened with Devin Hester's mention of Brian Mitchell during his Hall of Fame induction speech two weeks ago. Kevin missed it when he was on vacation so he talked about it today. Kevin responded to ESPN's "Position Rankings" which had Washington's Linebackers ranked tops in the NFL. Mitch Tischler/Beltway Podcast jumped on to talk everything Commanders including what he saw yesterday at the joint-practice in Miami with the Dolphins. And finally, Kevin talked Kliff Kingsbury's fast-start/slow-finish track record as a coach.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show is Kevin. I hope me being here today opens up the doors and bring some attention to other guys like Brian Mitchell and Josh Cripps because I'm not the only return of who deserved to be in the Hall of Fame. I'm just the first. That was Devin Hester two weeks ago during his Hall of Fame speech in Canton, doing his best to open up the door for more returners to make it to the Hall of Fame,

guys like Brian Mitchell. And the reason that I came into the show with that today is on one of the last shows before I went on vacation, I talked about Devin Hester going into the Hall of Fame as the first true returner and sort of moved it into a conversation about Brian and his worthiness for the Hall of Fame. I had not heard until the other day what Devin Hester had said. I had read it on social media when I was away in Ireland, but I hadn't heard it. I heard it the other day, and I made note to play it on the podcast and give you some thoughts on it because I thought, first of all, that was very nice. And secondly, it certainly won't hurt the chances for guys like Brian and Josh Cribbs, who he mentioned as well.

in their efforts to make it one day into the Hall of Fame. With that said, I still think that Hester is the returner in the history of the game that 100% deserve the Hall of Fame without much debate. And those next in line, which would include Brian, they all are cases that are much more debatable. More on that coming up. The show today, as always, is presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com for new windows.

Mention my name. They'll come out to your home and give you a free quote. One guest on the show today, Mitch Tishler from the Beltway podcast with J.P. Finley will be on with me in the next segment. Mitch was down in Miami yesterday for the joint practice, so we'll talk about what he saw up close. And at the end of the show, something you may not know about Cliff Kingsbury. Stay tuned for that. Back to Devin Hester and Brian for a moment. I'll say what I said a few weeks ago, and what I think I'll always believe,

Brian Mitchell certainly deserves consideration and a conversation about the Hall of Fame. He is one of the greatest returners in NFL history. he's one of the true big game clutch performers as a returner in NFL history. He's second all-time on the all-purpose yards list, as most of you know, behind the great Jerry Rice, and he tops all of the return lists for attempts and total yards. Nobody's actually even close. The statistical disadvantage in the case for Brian is primarily average yards per year. return. He's 33rd on the list of all-time punt return yardage average and 172nd, 172nd all-time in kickoff return

average. The other thing is that while Brian was considered one of the better returners during his era, he was never obviously the best returner. He was always one of a few that were considered the best. He made just one Pro Bowl, and he was named All Pro just one time. Hester had four Pro Bowls, three All-Pros, and Devin Hester was voted to the All-2000s decade team and the All-2010s decade team. He made two All-Decade teams in different decades, obviously, two All-Decade teams in different decades. Brian played during an era where, again, he was considered one of the best, but never considered the clear-cut best. Mel Gray was the all-1990s kickoff and punt returner. Dion Sanders was also part of the all-1990s decade team as a punt returner as well. Brian was not voted to the all-decade team

for either kickoff returner or punt returner. Brian's greatness is really measured in a few things. Number one, his total yardage numbers, they may stand forever. His combined kickoff and punt return numbers, 19,13 yards. Second behind him on that list is Alan Rossum at 15,03 yards. He's got over a 4,000. thousand yard lead on number two on the list for all-time kickoff and punt return yards. The highest total kickoff and punt return career yardage number for a current player is Corderell

Patterson. He's at 7,998 yards. He's been in the league for 11 years. So nobody's touching Brian's career aggregate yardage numbers, you know, total yardage numbers. You know, total yardage numbers. I guess the new kickoff rules could change that and somebody could become super prolific in the kickoff return game. But Brian's lead on the only current player in the top 75 in kickoff and punt career yardage. He's got an 11,000 plus yard advantage on Patterson. So Brian's going to probably make it through the rest of his life

in all of your lives as the all-time kickoff and punt return total yardage leader. And by the way, he's got a massive lead, excuse me, on the all-purpose yards list at second behind Jerry Rice. Those two stand alone at the top of that list. But again, it is the average numbers, 172nd on kickoff returns, 33rd on the all-time. and punt return average number, and the fact that he was never really, other than maybe a year or two, considered the clear cut best and most dangerous returner in the game.

There were others that were kind of there with him. While Devin Hester, you know, there was Dante Hall, there was Josh Cribs, but Devin Hester was considered to be the guy during his era. I do think that Brian's ability to turn. rise to the big game moment. You know, the last return he ever had for Washington was a 100-yard kickoff return in a playoff game against Tampa Bay. He had multiple big kickoff end-punt returns in playoff games for Philadelphia. He just was a clutch performer. You know, not just as a

returner. Brian as a running back, Brian as the up guy in punt coverage during a playoff game against the Minnesota Vikings after the 92 season had a big play on a fake punt. Brian just was used by Joe Gibbs when he was here in big games, and he came through. And the same can be said for what he did for Andy Reed in Philadelphia. We'll see. Hester's induction will open up the conversation more than ever for returners. and Brian would certainly be at the top of the list, or certainly among two or three or four returners all time that would be in the next group that the Hall of Fame committee would consider.

And for years, you know, true returners really weren't considered, and now Hester's induction may change that. So anyway, tomorrow night, Washington at Miami, preseason game number two. The dolphins are five-point favorites. They were only a one-point favorite yesterday. The reason for that, I think, is pretty obvious. The odds makers expect the dolphins to play their starters more than Washington will play its starters.

I had Ben Standing and Nikki Javala both on the radio show today, and they both indicated that they think that last week's plan will be tomorrow night's plan, meaning the starters will play a series, Ben suggested maybe two for the offense. And we'll see some of the players we didn't see last week, Bobby Wagner, Duran Payne, John Allen. But that, you know, this game tomorrow night is going to be an in-and-out situation for the players that will be playing a lot on opening day against Tampa Bay. And by the way, speaking of that, I think tomorrow night will be the final time we see Jaden Daniels and the offensive starters and probably most of the defensive starters until Tampa

on September 8th. I had mentioned earlier this week that something Dan Quinn had said to Sam 40A, where he indicated next week was going to be a little bit different, that this week was going to be similar to last week, but next week would be a little bit different and they would treat it more like a regular season week in terms of practice times, et cetera. And I, took away from that the possibility that they might treat the New England game, which is the preseason finale for the entire league on Sunday night, August 25th, National TV, NBC and Peacock will have that game, that they might treat it as like the true dress rehearsal game, but I did have somebody in the know reach out to me to say that that was not the correct takeaway, that

Tomorrow night was, tomorrow night is likely the last time we're going to see the starters before opening day. So, you know, that's the way they're treating the preseason. You know, most teams are now in self-preservation mode. They're trying to stay healthy. Although I did see Andy Reid is going to play his starters a quarter tomorrow afternoon. I think it is against the Lions, you know, and he's done something right here in recent years. but look, the majority of teams have gone the way in recent years of, yeah, we're not really using these games to get ready for the regular season. They use the joint practices more as a way to get ready for the regular season than they do these preseason games.

Although I did see something, and maybe you guys saw this too, it was actually a headline for much of the day. Drodmeo, the coach in New England, replacing Bill Belichick, said, that the starting job competition for quarterback is, quote, definitely not over, closed quote. Now, Jacoby Brissette was named the starter before camp opened. And now because Drake May has looked better in recent weeks and played well, apparently, in the preseason game last night against the Eagles, it's not over. It's a competition, and it may be decided next week at FedEx Field under the lights in prime time on national TV.

Washington may not be playing anybody, but it may be a battle between Jacoby Burset and Drake May. I guess Bailey Zappy and Joe Milton might be in that competition. Joe Milton, by the way, the big dude from Tennessee, big arm, incredible athlete. He's actually played well in some of these games. as well. The Patriots, by the way, I looked this up. They've got a brutal start to the season. I mean, they are predicted to be going into this season, along with Carolina, the two worst teams in the league. Listen to their schedule. They open at Cincinnati. Then they have a week

two game at home against Seattle. Then they're at the Jets, at the 49ers, home against the Dolphins, Texans, Jags, before facing the Jets. Every single one of their first eight games is against a potential playoff team in the upcoming season. Brutal, they've got the Jets twice, they've got the Niners, the Dolphins, the Texans, the Bengals. Yeah. But next week, we may get the quarterback battle for. New England. All right, I wanted to get to something here in the open to the podcast today that I saw today on ESPN.com. It was a ranking of every NFL positional group. They do this every year.

You know, it's another one of those rankings or lists that are very popular during the offseason and the preseason. Mike Clay, ESPN's senior writer, analyzed the rosters of all 30, teams and then went by a position by position and ranked all 32 teams at each position. You know, example, quarterback is the first one listed. He ranks all 32 teams based on the quarterbacks on their roster. Kansas City's number one. Buffalo's number two, Baltimore's number three, Washington's number 26. So not a lot of, you know, preseason kudos being given to the Daniel's situation. By the way, if you're wondering where Chicago is, they're 24. All right. So it's not like, you know, the rookie quarterbacks don't get a lot of credit before they've actually played an NFL game.

32nd, by the way, on the list was Minnesota's quarterback situation. Sam Darnold and now no J.J. McCarthy. But they ranked, you know, position group by position group, one through 32. Why do I bring this up? Washington was ranked number one in one of these position group rankings. I mean, we've been doing this for a long time. We have lived through the last 25 years, 30 plus really, but the last horrific, you know, 15 to 20 years. I can't think of a time on any of these lists or in any of these rankings, Washington ranked number one in anything positive. I mean, position. position group rankings, they haven't been anywhere near number one. You know, secondary safety, no, corner no, linebackers, no, D-line.

I mean, even with Payne and Allen in the last couple of years, you know, top six, seven maybe, but not number one. Offensive line, no, receiving core, no, tight ends, no. I mean, maybe the receiving core when they had, you know, Deshaun and Pierre and Jameson Crowder and Jordan Reed, who was a tight end, you know, maybe the receiving core. you know, maybe their past catching core was ranked high in 2015, 2016, 2017. Running backs, no. Quarterbacks, no.

They're number one. They are ranked number one in the position group called off-ball linebacker. Now, what that means is they're not including the true three-four-edge stand-up pass-rushing. linebackers as part of this. Washington's offball linebackers, best in the NFL according to ESPN.com. I would have said San Francisco, Fred Warner, Greenlaw, et cetera, if somebody just asked me, who's got the best, you know, group of linebackers in the NFL if you, you know, don't include stand-up, three, four edge pass rushers? Number one, Washington, here's. what's written. Washington revamped its linebacker situation by adding every down players Bobby Wagner

and Frankie Louvre during free agency. Wagner has shown no sign of drop-off at 34, pacing the NFL last year with 183 tackles. Louvo is one of only two players with 200 plus tackles and 12 plus sacks in each of the past two seasons. By the way, the way that was written, he didn't have 200 tackles in 12 sacks in an individual season two years in a row. That's the aggregate of the two years. But still pretty impressive. And Louvo was my favorite of the free agent acquisitions. And Wagner was number two. Like they've got a guy in Wagner who, like they say, did not show any sign of drop off. He led the NFL in tackles. Louvoo is going to be used in, you know, a Dan Quinn Micah Parsons kind of a role, and he is just a high motor, relentless hitter.

We're going to see Louvo, by the way, I think, be a significant part of the pass rush all season long. But number one, in a position group, I mean, I was floored by that, because I haven't seen that in forever. A couple of the other position groups where Washington did well, running back, 13th overall. I was glad to see, you know, they're running. back group not be under, you know, rated and not be overlooked, because I think it has been by many people who have talked about their running backs. I think Brian Robinson Jr. is good. They're 13th in the league. They're running back room. I think Austin Eckler, if he comes anywhere near to where he was a couple of years ago, is good. I think the interesting thing is going to be in these

last two preseason games, is it Wiley or Rodriguez? I think Wiley's got a shot. But 13th in the running back unit rankings, if you're wondering about wide receiver, 22nd overall, their wide receiver group. Offensive line, this may be a surprise for some of you who absolutely believe that this is the weak link of the entire team. We've had this conversation so. many times. I've said before that while it certainly never looked good, the advanced numbers treated Washington's offensive line with respect to rankings or in comparison to the rest of the league, much better than most of you thought it was. Washington's O-line, which I think many of you think is the worst in the league or among the worst in the league, 20th overall. Higher than probably

many of you thought. You know, next-gen pass-block win rate last year, 14th, run-block win rate per next-gen, I think it was 18th. Interior defensive line with John Allen and Duran Payne, 10th. So that was their second highest ranking. They were 10th and interior D-line. I think they were like sixth or fifth in that last year

before the season started. And then the weakness in the rankings show up edge rusher, 31st, and then safeties, they are 24th, and corners 30th. So there you go. But still, first linebackers, look, if John Allen and Duran Payne, in the additions that they made in Dorrance Armstrong, Cleland, Farrell, Fowler, Jr., etc., with the linebackers

behind them. If they can at least become a good run-stopping team, that's a big part of the battle defensively in the NFL. You have to stop the run. Alan and Payne are good run-stoppers. Louvo and Wagner, I think, will fit the bill of having somebody behind those guys that can make a lot of tackles. And then we'll see about pass rush, and we'll see about certainly coverage corner in particular. There was one other thing that ESPN put out in the last couple of days, and that was best case, worst case, or ceilings, floors for all 32 teams. You know, what's the best you can expect? What is the worst you can expect? Washington was 9 and 8 as a ceiling, and four and 13 as a floor.

I don't think their floor is four and 13. I think their floor is something like six and 11. I think their ceilings 10 and 7. I've already gone on record predicting 10 and 7. I think their floor is more like six wins. Maybe it's five. But here's the thing. To win four games requires bad quarter.

There's really no example of a team that it was that that's really bad in the NFL, meaning four wins or less that didn't have bad quarterback play. Now sometimes it's because the good quarterback got hurt. But four wins the floor means that ESPN.com believes that bad quarterback is in play. I don't. I mean, it could happen. I'm obviously very very. optimistic about Jaden Daniels. But I don't see the quarterbacking being so bad that they win four games. I mean, if you go back and you check the four win teams or less, every single one of them for the last three or four years, terrible quarterback situations,

even if it was injury induced. Anyway, I got this from Chris. Chris rated and reviewed the show on Apple. gave us five stars. Thank you very much, Chris. And again, I know I mention this all the time, but it is big for us when we get ratings and reviews, especially on Apple. So if you haven't done it, it takes 60 seconds. You can pause the podcast right now. Hopefully give us five stars and write a favorable one to two sentence review. Subscribing to the podcast and following the podcast on Apple and Spotify are big for us as well. But anyway, Chris wrote, Kevin,

Love the show. Would pay to hear Ted Leonsis come on with you and Tom. Please make that happen. Chris, I am trying to make that happen. Don't hold your breath, but I reached out to Ted once he wrote that letter to Tom and I this week. If you miss that, Tom and I were commenting on the Monday or Tuesday podcast, Tuesday, I believe, about Ted's desire to bring the Olympics to. DC. Ted wrote us a letter on Twitter, and we talked about it. I talked about it on Wednesday's show Solo and then with Tommy yesterday, and I reached out a few days ago to ask Ted if he would come on, and I did hear back from them. Now, it's not going to happen this week or next week or probably not the week after that, but he did say that he'd be willing to come on sometime. in, you know, September, late September before the cap season begins. That from his PR group, I did not talk to Ted directly, but went through his PR agency.

I have not had great luck, nor has the station, the radio station, in recent years getting Ted to come on. I have no idea why. Tommy and I had Ted on, not, you know, on a regular basis, but once a year when we did the show together, Cooley and I had Ted on probably once or twice, but it's been several years since Ted's come on the radio show. And I don't think he's ever been on the podcast. I might be wrong about that, maybe very early on. But, you know, several requests have essentially fallen on deaf ears in recent years for whatever reason. He's actually, I think, kind of cut back on media, although with the,

moved to Virginia being a huge story. He did do some media and we did reach out to him and we were not given one of those interviews. But they did get back to us this time and it looks like at some point, hopefully late September, early October before the cap season begins, he'll come on with us. And trust me, we're not going to get roped into just talking about Connor McMichael and Dylan Strom and T.J. O'Shea and Alex Ovechkin's Chase of Gretzky. We will not forget some of the other topics that we want to talk about. And Chris, no worries. You won't have to pay for the content. All right. That is it for this opening segment. Mitch Tishler will join me next. We'll talk about what he saw up close yesterday in South Florida at the joint practice between Washington and the Dahl.

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Again, just give them a chance to come out and give you a free estimate if you've been thinking about new windows. 86690 Nation, window nation.com. All right. Jumping on with me right now is Mitch Tishler. Mitch is part of the Beltway Football podcast with J-P Finley. You can follow Mitch on Twitter at Mitch underscore Tishler, T-I-S-C-H-L-E-R. He's also with JP on the Beltway Football Show, which you can watch on Monumental Sports Network. Mitch joins us right now.

Mitch was in South Florida for the joint practice yesterday with the Dolphins. He's back now. but let's start with, you know, a day that generated a lot of positive upbeat reporting from everybody that was there. What did you observe? Yeah, I mean, it was about as polar opposite as it got from the Jets joint practice. The Jets joint practice was rainy and wet and disgusting. Miami was hot and humid and about as soupy as it gets. But I would say the play on the field was about the same as well.

In New York, it was kind of ugly, and they kind of got beaten up on by the jets. And down in Miami, they held their own. And if they were keeping score, I would say it was even, or maybe the commanders even scored more touchdowns than the Dolphins did. So it was great seeing the offense, be effective in the red zone, complete a bunch of passes and make big plays. And defensively, the defensive line just really stood out. They beat the living, you know what, out of the Dolphins O-Line over there, and we're putting tons of pressure onto it and would have had multiple, multiple sacks, particularly in the Red Zone when they were trying to run some more exotic stuff.

What did you learn, specific to kind of the offensive production in the Red Zone, when they apparently scored five touchdowns in, you know, six or seven, you know, opportunities in the Red Zone work? what stood out to you about what they were doing? Were they running the football? Were they in shotgun? Was he throwing quick game? Was he taking shots to the end zone from the 20-yard line? Did you learn anything about the Kingsbury Red Zone offense? Yeah, it was mostly passing in the Red Zone. There was a little bit of running. To me, I think what you saw best there and what I'm hoping you're going to see tomorrow

night during the pre-season game with Jaden is just how quick his decision-making is and how well he anticipates throws. A couple of those touchdown throws, particularly the first one of Terry McCloren, which was kind of a deep-in or deep dig. He's throwing the ball before Terry even make the break. And as Terry turns forward, the ball's just on him. And it's in a perfect position where he's able to catch it and go over the goal line. A couple times he threw a little out patterns to guys, and he's throwing that ball before they've even turned to look at him. And, you know, I think that's kind of the big thing that we're seeing progress with Jaden. We've seen the armed talent.

We've seen a little bit of the leg talent. And I think you're starting to see him get more comfortable in this offense and be prepared and understand where the ball's supposed to be when. And from the beginning with him in Washington, his ball placement has been elite. He doesn't put the ball in peril. So the most part, he puts the ball where pretty much his guy is going to get it or no one is. And in a big picture, he had two interceptions during the day yesterday against the

Dolphins. That's one more than he's had the rest of training camp altogether. And those two interceptions, one was a tip ball from, one was a tip ball off of Cole Turner, and the other one was a ball that Terry McCorn flipped on. So neither one of them were really his fault, per se. And, you know, it's pretty impressive for a rookie quarterback to step out in a in a long training camp like this and really only have kind of one interception on his hands.

Mitch, what are you expecting from the Cliff Kingsbury offense when we get to opening day? I think we're going to see a lot of quick game. I think we're going to see the ball out of Jaden's hands quickly. I think he's going to do as much as he can to kind of help the offensive line, which with the guys that have come back with having Cornelius Lucas and having Andrew Wiley back at tackle looks a lot better

than it did last week. But I think that you're going to see the ball in his playmaker's hands early on in games and give them opportunities to make plays. And then I think that he'll counter that as you kind of move on in-game and then in weeks, and you're going to start seeing Jaden push the ball downfield,

which is something clearly he's very comfortable with and can do. And I really like kind of the way that we've seen this cliff offense kind of evolves over, you know, these couple of weeks. We saw them put in a lot of the base plays, and now we're starting to see some of the counters to the bases. And he's going to run the ball with Brian Robinson and Austin Ecclour a fair amount. You're going to see Jane Daniels with the ball in his hand a fair amount. They love the RPO stuff behind the line of scrimmage.

And Jaden is really kind of a wizard with the ball in those games. He's obviously very experienced with it. And I think you're going to see a more electric offense than we've seen here in Washington in quite a few years. I want to come back to the offense and the wide receiver two conversation here in a moment, but you said that the D-line really stood out. Was it primarily D-Ron and John? And if not, who else kind of stood out to you?

Yeah, I mean, John Allen just had an unbelievable day. And we've seen John dominate, you know, good players before, but he was going up against Robert Jones and Liam Eichenberg and Eric Grue, they're kind of starting center. And there were times that it almost looked like he was untouched getting to the quarterback. And it's just impressive, you know, watching him do that because you see him do that sometimes

to the commander's offensive line. And it's always a, yeah, but, you know, this commander's a line might not be good. So what does it really mean? But to see him do it to some other teams who do have good players and have proven NFL players is impressive, much like we talked about with the offense where they put in kind of base plays, and now they're starting to kind of take that next step.

We saw a lot more blitzes. We saw some of the exotic stuff that we've come to expect from, you know, Joe Witt, Jr. and Dan Quidlin's defenses, and the Dolphin struggles with trying to protect Tua with them. Dorrance Armstrong was getting free rushes at the quarterback because they couldn't quite figure out, you know, who was coming and who wasn't coming when they were doing some of these stand-up stand-up blitz things that we've seen

Michael Parsons do over the years. They're using Frankie Louvre in a bunch of different ways. He's a real chess piece that, you know, he's not the player that Michael Parsons is, and I'm not making that comparison, but the way that you see Michael line up on the left, on the right, at linebacker, standing hand in the ground,

you know, kind of a bunch of different ways. We're seeing a little bit of that with Frankie Louvo, and he can be a real menace rushing off the edge. So it's really, it's been the kind of the creativeness of the defense trying to get out to the quarterback that really stood out yesterday. If you had to guess right now on who leads the team in Sacks in 2024, who is it? If I was making my guess right now, I'd probably say Doran Armstrong.

I think that he's going to, first off, have the most opportunity of all the defensive ends as far as playtime. But he's the guy that has spit out the most of kind of. of the three guys that they brought in between himself, Cleland Farrell, and Dante Fowler. He's the one that has looked the best out of the three of them. I think Cleland Farrell has some nice traits. Dante Fowler is just a pure speed guy. And at times, I think that's going to be a huge boon for the defense being able to unleash a guy who can get around the edge like that. But D'Arm's arm's trying looks really good, and he's gotten half of the quarterback

pretty well here in camp and then in the joint practices. You know, when you mention Louvo, that's why I asked you the question, because the idea that Quinn sees Louvoo, maybe not as Micah Parsons, talent-wise, but Micah Parsons, in terms of role, moving around in a lot of different situations and a lot of different positions defensively pre-snap, I wonder if Louvoo is actually one of the people they think has a chance to lead them in. tax this year. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, when you ask the question, I was between Louvo and Doran Armstrong. So I like a lot what they've done with Louvo. I am wondering if this injury to Jordan McGee might maybe limit what they do with Louvo a little bit just because there's not a ton of depth there. You know, at linebacker, obviously Anthony Pittman, can step in and play a fair amount.

But Jordan McGee, you know, fifth rounder from Temple, was really impressing at camp and getting a ton of work with either the ones or kind of when they did the split one, two. And, you know, his knee injury, whatever, it may be, I think I'm hearing it might be kind of weeks and maybe not months, so it might not be quite as serious as maybe we were concerned that it would be. But at least I'm a little bit thinner at linebacker, and maybe Louvo might have to stay home a little bit more early in the season until kind of they get back to that full strength. Will Jamin Davis be on the final roster? that's a great question.

Ultimately, I've come around and I think that he will, and I think more so it might not necessarily be because they expect him to be the first round talent that he was when he was drafted in 21, but more so he has kind of that athletic trait that you look at the season's draft picks from this front office and his coaching staff, and it was all guys that ranked real high in the RAS scores.

And obviously, Jamie is one of those guys. And I think when you ask them to change your position, you have to also understand that it's not going to happen overnight. And it is going to take a little bit of time to kind of, you know, figure out, figure out how to play that defensive end role. But, you know, you look at what the defensive line looks like the past, you know, a couple of years with all the first round studs, quote unquote, that were on it. And they didn't have a whole lot of depth there. And so those guys were playing just in a rational number of snaps per game and per season. and you saw them kind of wear down as the season went on. And I think that's one thing that this defensive coaching staff is really prioritizing,

is that is going to be kind of the rotational piece of it all, and making sure that they have bodies that can come in and out, even if it's just for a couple of downs at a time, to give the guys like John Allen, Theron Payne, you know, Thornt Armstrong, a breather so that they can be, you know, ready to go at the key moments of the game. And Jamin can give you something a little bit different on the edge, rushing the quarterback,

with that speed and athleticism than kind of any of the other guys that they have that are quote-unquote defense events on this roster. So I think he'll be on the roster. I think, you know, it might be up and down whether he's active on game days and how many stats he gets, but I do think he'll be on the roster. Yeah, I agree with that. Real quickly, one more on defense. Other than San Ristill, who I know has really stood out in camp and in these joint practices and even in the limited plays he had last week against the Jets. Anybody else at Corner that you're confident in? Nope.

I don't mean to be short with you, but I think that's the biggest question mark on this team. I mean, offensive tackle and corner are the two spots of this team needs to get better at. And there have been portions of Emmanuel Forbes's game that I have liked much better than what we saw last year. I think that, you know, you think about kind of those Dallas cornerbacks and, you know, what they were asked to do and how they were doing. And it seems like Forbes should be able to step in and do that a little bit better. However, he's going to have to show me before I'm ready to crown him anything. And quite frankly, the same goes for Benjamin St. Chus. I think, you know, he played relatively well yesterday.

He did get beat over the top by Tyree Kill on one of the first 11-on-11 offensive plays. but let's be honest, Tyree Kill is going to beat a lot of corners over the top. And, you know, I think the next most solid player has been Michael Davis. And, you know, I think he's kind of a solid, unspectacular piece, but every defense needs a couple of guys who play that role. And so corner is going to be, you know, an interesting position this year because Joe Witt, Dan Quinn, love to leave their corners in, you know, single high, you know, man-to-man.

press as a line coverage. And as much as you want to talk about, you know, some of the eye-popping interception numbers that the Cowboys Corners had, they also had some pretty eye-poppingly bad yards against numbers as well. Right. So these guys are okay with letting these guys, you know, kind of go for it a little bit and try and make big plays. But before I'm ready to say I feel okay about any of the rest of them being out there,

I'm going to have to see it on the field. Yeah. Diggs and, you know, before he got her, and Bland obviously was phenomenal setting the NFL record last year for pick sixes. All right, let's flip it to the other side of the football and talk about this wide receiver situation. I think at this point, and I talked a little bit about this in the open, I think at this point we all understand that we weren't exaggerating last week in talking about the Jahan

Dotson situation. There is a situation there, and it's been pretty clear. clear that, you know, Dan Quinn and they're not, you know, completely confident that they've got a number two. And it's very clear that Jahan Dotson wasn't just given sort of the number two spot. I would ask you what I've asked everybody, including myself, and that is, do you have a sense when Quinn says, you know, he's in a competition and this is a competition? What is Jahan Dotson competing for? Is it a roster spot? Is it to be a competition? Is it to be a competition? be in the rotation of being on the field and being highly targeted and getting number two or number three receiver snaps? Is it being active on game day? What do you think he's competing for?

He's competing for snaps, but he's on this roster and he'll be active on game day's barring something crazy else happening. I mean, this receiving room isn't talented enough to not have a guy with Jahan's talent, at least available to be used in this offense. And, you know, I think so much of it comes from, we all know how bad offense was last year, both, you know, in game and then also in planning and execution. And, you know, we, it's easy for us as we watch the game to just dismiss it and say, okay, last year was a bad year.

You know, I'm not going to hold it against anybody. You know, I want to see what they have now that you hopefully have a more competent, you know, offensive system in place. But for Jahan, you know, I think he's still lacking some of that competence and he still kind of, you know, has a little PTSD from how poor things went last year because he was exposed a little bit at his inability to get off press coverage and, you know, create separation. Now, I think part of that is obviously himself and the way that he plays the game. And the other part of it was how the offense was designed last year. And I do think that Cliff, it seems.

teams like this Cliff King very often is designed better. It's going to be more balanced. So all the defensive players on the field are going to have to respect the run. And hopefully Jahan's able to kind of, you know, play off that and get a little bit better. But we talked to him yesterday, and he talked a lot about needing to play faster and wanting to play faster. And I think that's something that we all can conceptualize and understand when you look at kind of some of the things that have happened with the commanders over the years, where you see players kind of thinking on the field instead of just reacting and playing. And so Jahan is certainly in a competition with Diami.

I mean, Yami's really, you know, the only other one. Alamedi is a keyist is a nice piece, but he's really much more of a flat guy than he is an outside receiver. But he's certainly in a competition to, you know, get snaps and be on the field. And despite the fact that Cliff does love to go four wide quite often, you know, that's not going to be every single play. And, you know, it's certainly up in the air about who's going to be, you know, that number two receiver opposite to the Terry. If they were playing the Buccaneers Sunday, they're in 11 personnel,

they've got three receivers on the field. Who would they be? I think right now it would be Terry, Diami, and Alamedi. Yeah. I think Jahan might be kind of that fourth guy, but let's be honest about DiMami Brown for a second. I mean, you know, we have three years of training camp gold from him and three years of in-season, you know, Ken, if you will. I mean, I don't think he's had more than 175 yards receiving, you know, in a season.

And he's always looked really good against air or against his own team when they can't, you know, hit him or tackle him or, you know, push him off his line too hard. And then he struggled when we got in season and, you know, teams could jam him at a line or teams could, you know, get a little handsy with him as he was getting downfield. And obviously that catch against the jet was awesome. And that's exactly what you want to see from Diami. You know, a ball that's put up where only you can get it, and he's able to kind of hand fight with that corner, give himself a little bit of room to bring in that ball.

That's everything that you want to see from Diami. But one catch doesn't make a season, doesn't make the career. And, you know, I have to see that more than just one time from him because we've been the trick before. We've gone into camps, you know, out of the broken camps. I thought, oh, man, this is going to be a breakout year for Diami. This is going to be a breakout year for Diami. And then he has, what, three touchdowns and three years and, you know, no games with over 80 yards, whatever it may be.

I think that you have to see more from him before you're ready to anoint him as your number two guy. Yeah, and thinking about Diami, I think there's one game. It's that Tennessee game with Carson Wentz. I think that's the only, I'd have to look through the game-by-game log on pro football reference. I'm sorry? Is that the two touchdown game from him? Yeah, he had two touchdowns in that game. One was like 80 yards.

That was the game where Carson threw a pick at the end that when they were about to go in and win the game before the Chicago Thursday night game where he got hurt and that was basically it from him until the Cleveland game at the end of the year. But I honestly think, I can't think of another game. I'm pulling up the game log right now in which Diami had anything memorable. All right.

Yami had two for 105 and two touchdowns against there it is. Yep. Two for two, it was only two catches. Yeah, it was two catches and it's the most memorable moment moment from his career. One was it was not 80 yards. It was 75 yards and the other was a 30-yard touchdown pass from once in that game.

Other than that, he's had three catches in a game. twice. Once his rookie year against the Chiefs, no, three times. The second game he ever played that giant game in 2021 when the Giants kicked the game winning field goal, but the guy was off sides. Or no, Hopkins missed the field goal, but the guy was off sides. And then he had one against Kansas City, and then he had a three-catch game last year against Denver in week two. That's it. But you answer the question, which I think is the right answer today. But I also, agree with you. Jehan's speed, his route running ability, his, I know he dropped some balls last year, but he's had good hands in the past, good catch radius. It's not the talent. That's not what's

bothering them. What's bothering them is the urgency, the hustle, and some of those, you know, other things that they want to see as they try to build sort of this relentless motor culture. And if they can get that from him, between now and the open, he should be of the receivers they have the second most talented guy. I completely agree with you. And quite frankly, I think when they open up in Tampa, that is what we will end up seeing. But he's got to get there first. I think his biggest issue right now is between the ears and not necessarily physical on the football field.

And I think he hopefully is able to get more confidence. Hopefully against the dolphins, he's able to hit a couple of. plays and get moving. But bigger picture, you know, you talked about the Jane and Daniels, I'm sure you talked about the Jane and Daniels, Marcus Marriota kind of quote-unquote competition. But like that competition is legit happening across this roster at different spot. And Jahan, I think, you know, I think it maybe spooked Jahan a little bit or maybe he was a little surprised that he turned around and realized, oh, man, I'm in a real competition right now. you know, there's nothing guaranteed to me. And, you know, I think that can be eye-opening for a receiver. And at the end of the day, you know, we're in the middle of the process of getting ready for the season. We're not there yet. So it's okay if it spooked them a little bit and woke them up a little bit and it gets his, you know, tail in gear getting ready for that first game against Tampa.

Give me a player on offense and a player on defense who you believe and you kind of, you know, have been pushing this with, you know, JP or any other conversations you've been having with people. on the beat that you have a hunch is going to be a much bigger contributor this year than most people think. Yeah, I mean, I've been on the Bryson-Termain wagon here for a little bit. You've been and everybody else. Yeah. He's going back to last year. You know, he just gives you something on the offense that really nobody else does. He's six-foot four. The next ball's receivers, Terry, who I don't know what they haven't listed at, but probably close to the six-quarter or six-one. And quite frankly, you know, you can have all this tall tight ends you want on the roster, but, you know, you need some of that red zone threat from your receivers.

And at the moment, they don't really have anybody else that can do that. And maybe Mark Davis Bryant goes out there and surprises some folks. I mean, to me, he's a lottery ticket. And if he hits, great, if he doesn't, you know, so be it. But there are a lot of big question marks there. I think Bryce and Tremean might be a sneaky guy who contribute that very important. times. I don't think he's going to get a big share of snap, but I think he might get a share of important snap, and maybe that might be a little something that could be different.

And on the defensive side of the ball, I mentioned him a little bit earlier. I think Dante Fowler will be really interesting to watch. I haven't seen Washington have a speed rusher like him in my 15 years or so covering this team. And watching the way that he can put offensive tackles in a spin is really impressive. And what I've loved from him is that he can beat these guys, you know, pretty regularly just using his straight speed. But early on in camp, he started, he's already showing that he's working on his counter to his main rush.

And so he starts up field with the speed, spins back to the inside, kind of Dwight-Frieney-ish, obviously not to that talent level, but he is a freak athlete. And I just think that in, you know, in obvious passing situations when he gets on the field, I think he's going to be a real asset and a difficult guy for teams to block. Any of the corners behind St. Juice, Davis and Forbes, any of those guys, whether it's a Nusium or Hampton, do you see any of them potentially being a surprise major contributor this year? Well, I think Tyler Owens would be that guy if you want to pick out.

But more of a safety, right? More of a linebacker slash safety. I'm thinking more more corner. Yeah. I mean, honestly, we can talk about Surrey Castro Fields a little bit if you like or chicken museum. But I mean, there's not a lot of steps there. And I think it calls off pretty quickly. I think that the Mikey St. Nassil pick is going to just, pay off in spades because your ability to play him at pretty much any of the corner positions is going to help you, especially as you start going to some. Can you play him on the outside?

I certainly think you can. I mean, it was a red zone play, so you take it for what it's worth. It's not a huge open field, but there was a red zone play yesterday. He's lined up one-on-one across from Tariqil, and he and Tariq one's kind of a deep crosser all the way across the field. And I don't know that Stainer still was step for step, but he broke up the pass on the back end as in a one-on-one situation with him. And, you know, I don't think you won't necessarily want that all the time.

But for a guy to show that kind of athleticism, that kind of speed against somebody who we know is as good as Tyree Kill, I think you've got to kind of tip your cap to him and say, I don't want to limit what I think you can do if you're showing me that in, you know, the second preseason game in your working season. All right, a couple more, and then I'll let you run. I appreciate this. Right now, again, if opening day was Sunday,

who would the punt returner be and who would the two kick returners be? So the kick returning is interesting because we haven't really seen a whole lot of that in training camp. All we've seen is what we've seen, you know, in the joy practices and in the games. And I think they're going to be, you know, I think there's going to be kind of a bunch of different ways that they attack that. But Noah, I, is what I've been calling them. Yeah. Big Benadne. I think it's going to play a big part in both kick-end part return game.

I think that that's kind of where it is. There'll be your, you know, backup kind of slot corner and, you know, he'll see the field a little bit. But I think in that kick game is where he's going to be most. The interesting question is going to be James and Crowther, because, when you look at kind of the way the wide receiver room is stacking up, do you have room to keep a guy like James and Crowder, who won't give you a ton on offense, but it's probably the only really short-handed pun returner that this team has?

You know, it depends on, you know, if this is our first time going through end-the-season cuts with, you know, this coaching staff in front office. So it'll be interesting to see kind of how they prioritize that. But when we get to in-season, I think that in the kick-off game, and kick return game. I think most teams are just going to kick the ball out of the end zone. That ball, you know, go to the 30. Because we've already seen in preseason,

there have been a bunch of big plays on that kick return game because you can kind of isolate it and make it a five-on-five game instead of, you know, 11-on-11. And in a five-on-five game with the right guy back there returning the ball, there's opportunities for big plays. Yeah, I think it's going to be really fascinating because the bottom line is if there are big plays and the average starting field position ends up being

beyond the 30. They're just going to tell the kickers to kick it through the end zone and we'll give them the ball at the 30. And then the league's going to have to make a decision as to whether or not that'll, you know, end up being the 35-yard line, which is what the competition committee initially wanted. But that was one of the concessions to get the rule through was to say a touchback would be the 30 instead of the 35. I have no idea how it's going to work. I think that every team, I think one thing is clear in watching some of the preseason games. You're going to have to have two kickoff for Turner's back because you can't let the ball hit in that landing zone and then go into the end zone and then you end up with the ball at the 20. So there are going to be two guys back.

I actually believe that Kaz Allen has a chance to be one of those two guys. What do you think? He does. Unfortunately, kind of like James and Crowder, the only reason. really gives you play in the special teams world. And he hasn't shown great hands or great route running. We know he's super fast, which is great. But, you know, if you're keeping a guy solely for one position

and teams are going to just be kicking the ball out of the back of the end zone, does that really help you a whole lot? I don't know. I don't think, I don't think Kaz Allen is going to be the guy that is on this roster. I think he's back on the practice squad again this year. And maybe they bring them up and, you know, play those games a little. bit with them. But if you're at the end of the Jets game, you know, you had Dan Quinn call on timeout as the Jets were kicking the, or scoring the, quote, the game-winning play

because they were hoping that they're going to be able to get Kazow on the ball in that kickoff, in that kickoff position. But the Jets just kicked it out of the back of the end zone and neutralized them all together. And I think it's just, if he ever shows that he's able to be a dynamic kick returner, I think you'll just see teams kick the ball out of the end zone and neutralize him just like that. Yeah, I think my thought is, you know, seeing him run a reverse last week, even though it got called back, seeing him on the field, they threw, I think he had one catch, they targeted him another time.

I think they're interested in finding out whether or not he can provide something other than the kickoff piece, because I think they would be excited to have him as one of the two kick returners. But to your point, you know, to have two of them now, one of the first of them, them can't just, both of them can't be specialists. You know, one of them, if not both of them, are going to have to contribute as position players as well. All right, last one for Mitch. Just give me your gut feel on what this team could do this year. You know, kind of best case, worst case. Yeah, I mean, when the schedule first came out, I believe we went through and did a game

by game, and I had them at 9 and 8. Right at the start of training camp, I kind of did it again in my head, and I had them at 7 and 10. So I think they're kind of right in that 7 to 10 wins. You know, when we talk about the wide receiver 2 and the concern about Jahan or Diami or Alamanezakiya's Luke McCaffrey, whatever it may be, I think we also kind of are forgetting that we're talking about a dynamic quarterback. And arguably the most dynamic quarterback that this team has had, you know, since you know, since Kirk Cousins and maybe even RG3,

argue that if you will. But if this guy is going to be as good as we think he can be or as good as we think he will be, he's going to throw for, what, 3,000 to 4,000 yards, you know, hopefully 3,000 plus and maybe 4,000 plus if things go extremely well, there's going to be a lot of yards out there for these receivers to gain. And I kind of think, you know,

I don't know that this team is going to call a ton of quarterback runs per se but the threat of his legs and especially I think that's part of what that preseason play at the goal line was with the Jets to kind of be like a, hey NFL, just a reminder, this guy can do this. I think that dual threat is going to create a lot of opportunities

for good matchups for, you know, not just the wide receivers but in the run game as well. So I think this offense is going to be the most dynamic offense we've seen because whatever was, 2015 with Kirk. Not that's saying a whole lot, but that was, you know, almost a decade ago. So I'm cautiously optimistic that things are going to go well here,

but to be honest, anything over, you know, seven or eight wins should be considered a successful season. Doubling your win total from last year is huge. And then some of these big places that there are holes, tackles, you know, maybe it's a receiver, certainly corner, those are holes that they can start plug in the soft season

with all the money that they have and the draft capital. So this is, I think there, you know, you finally have in hierarchy. That's a traditional NFL hierarchy that you seem to be successful across the league. And I think this team's really building to something. And I'm not saying that's going to happen right away this year. But I think, you know, level up improvement, you know, over the next two, three years, we could be talking about a team that has legitimate Super Bowl goals. Look at you.

I'm optimistic also about this year and the future for the future. first time since, yeah, the days of you know who, Kirk Cousins. Mitch, thanks. Great job. At Mitch underscore Tishler on X on Twitter. Great job. I'll talk to you soon. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you. All right. A little bit more show to go. I'm going to finish up with something that you may not know about Cliff Kingsbury. I'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code. Kevin D.C.

and MyBooky will give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. You know, this is the last weekend without real football. There are college games a week from tomorrow that are real. They call it Week Zero. There's one significant game involving a ranked team. Florida State, as the 10th, 3rd. ranked team in the country plays Georgia Tech in Dublin. I actually drove by that stadium when I was there last week in Dublin. Florida State is minus 11.5 at my bookie. They're an 11.5 point favorite.

And I'm going to tell you right now, this could be the earliest smell test selection ever. I don't think I've ever given out a play on week zero weekend. But the public is pounding the knolls laying that number. Check in with me next Friday. But if you want to bet football, and it's now that time of year, I promise you that my bookie is a safe place and a fair place to bet on sports. The numbers are fair. The pricing is fair.

If you win, you get paid. And if you use my promo code, Kevin D.C., you'll get some free cash into your account on your initial. sign up. Even if you've got somewhere where you're gambling on sports, have a second place. Nobody that does this seriously has one place in which they wager. You've got a comparison shop on numbers, on pricing so that you get the best point spreads, so you get the best Vigs, the best pricing on losses. Go to mybooky.orgie.org, use my promo code, Kevin, DC. So the other day on radio, had Michael Phillips, our old friend from Richmond on the show. He does a radio show down in Richmond

now, and he's also part of a new online newspaper venture down there. But he is still talking in a Washington football franchise all the time on his radio show. And he mentioned something kind of offhand that I found interesting. He said that Cliff Kingsbury has been known during his career as a fast starter, but a slow finisher. And I said, you know, give me more information. And he said, well, there's some data out there that suggests that, you know, the teams that he's been involved in have been very fast starters, but they have finished poorly in given seasons.

So I went and looked everything up, and he's not wrong. In fact, as a head coach, he's spot on. Now, Cliff has been, you know, I took some of the seasons in which he was a head coach at Texas Tech, where he was there for six years. He was in Arizona, for the Cardinals, as you know, as a head coach for four years. That is his head coaching experience. He was an OC and quarterbacks coach at Houston in 2010 and 2011. That would be Houston in college, the Houston Cougars, where he coached with Kevin Sumlin,

who was the head coach. And then he went with someone to Texas A&M in 2012, where he coached Johnny Mansell to his Heisman Trophy season as the O.C. and the quarterbacks coach there. He was at A&M for just one year, and he got the job at Texas Tech after Mansell's Heisman Trophy year. Now, as an OC at Houston and at A&M, and I didn't even count last year's season at USC. He was a senior advisor on that staff. But as an OC in those spots, there really weren't slow finishes other than his very first year at Houston. They started 3-1. They finished 2 and 6 and ended up 5 and 7 on the season. But if you go back and look at that season, they had a terrible defense. His offense was still scoring and gaining big yardage in games. 2011 with Case Keenem at quarterback as the OC at Houston, they went

13 and 1. Keenham had an unbelievable season. He threw for 5,631 yards, 48 touchdowns and five picks. And then 2012, he was the O.C. with Sumlin in College Station at Texas A&M, and they went 11 and 2 that year. They beat Bama, if you recall, in Tuscaloosa with Mansell playing great. They went 11 and 2, so there was no slow finish there. But I did find as a head coach, pretty much consistency across the board of fast starting teams and slow finishing teams. So in 2013 at Texas Tech, they started 7 and 0 in his first year, finished 8 and 5. They went 1 in 5 over the final 6 games, lost their last 5 regular season games. Now, the schedule got tougher and the defense was pretty bad.

But as a head coach, 2013, Texas Tech started 7 and 0, finished 8 and 5, so that was a 1 in 5 finish, losing five regular season games to end the year. 2014, they went 4 and 8, okay, so it wasn't a great season, but they did lose four of their final five games. and then in 2015 they went 7 and 6 started 5 and 2 and then had a 2 and 4 finish. 2016 at Texas Tech. They were 5 and 7, so it was not a great season, but they started 3 and 1, and they lost 6 of their final 8.

In 2017, they went 6 and 7. They started 4 in 1 and finished 6 and 7, that they lost six of their last eight again. And then in 2018, they went five and seven, but they started five and two and lost their last five games. So every year at Texas Tech, they started much better and ended very poorly. Then you go to Arizona for his four years as a head coach for the Cardinals. 2019, they started 3-3-1.

They finished 5-10-1, so they went 2-7 over their last nine games. In 2020, they started 5-2 and 2. They went 8-and-8, meaning that they finished that season, 3-6 over their last 9. 2021 was the playoff season with the Cardinals, where they went 11 and 6, but they started 7-0. They were undefeated, 7-0. and they lost, you know, they went four and six, losing six of their final 10 games to go 11 and 6, and then they got destroyed in the playoff game against the Rams on the road.

And then in 2022, a bad season, they finished 4 and 13, but they started the season 3 and 4, and he went 1 in 9 down the stretch, and then he got fired and then ended up last year at USC as a senior officer. offensive advisor, and now he's here. So as a coordinator early on at Houston at Texas A&M, not necessarily, you know, a fast starter, slow finisher. His first year, yeah, they were three and one and finished five and seven, but they had really good teams in 2011 at Houston and 2012 at Texas A&M. But as a head coach, every single year, it started much better and ended pretty badly. same in Arizona. You know, what will it be in Washington?

Well, he's not a head coach in Washington. He's an offensive coordinator, so he doesn't have responsibility over the entire team. And let me just point out some of those finishes that were bad were, you know, influenced by bad defenses. Now, he was the head coach, bad defenses, and some tougher schedules

as the season went on. Anyway, I don't know how significant that is. I don't personally think it's that significant because he's not the head coach here. And a lot of the slow finishes were more defensive-related. Look, they were in the Big 12. I mean, nobody plays defense in the Big 12. When you go through some of those Texas Tech seasons

where they started off pretty well and ended poorly, you know, they were losing games 50, 6.6. to 42, you know, or 48 to 35. But that record is there with him as a head coach, but again, he's not the head coach here. It was something I did not know. As big of a college football fan as I am, I never really knew that as a head coach at Texas Tech, he was a super fast starter. Look, he has two seven and those starts as a head coach to his resume, and both.

of those seasons did not end very well. 2013, 7-0, ended up 8-5. They went 1-5 over their last 6, losing their 5 regular season, last 5 regular season games. And then they won a bowl game to get to 8 and 5. And then in 2021 with the Cardinals starting 7-0, and then going 4 and 6 over the last 10 and getting destroyed in the playoff game in L.A.

All right. I may do a quick kind of post game to the preseason game, either late tomorrow night or sometime on Sunday. And so look for that. And then I'll definitely be back for a full-fledged show on Monday. Have a good weekend. So you had Johnny Mansell for a year at A&M. You had Mahomes. How many years did you have, Patrick?

I had him for three. Okay. And then Baker Mayfield came through as well, but he was injured and then transferred to Oklahoma. Right. Okay. But the most natural talented out of those three, Mahomes, Mansell, and Baker. You know, all three had ridiculous traits, I guess you would. Johnny's playmaking ability, his quick twitch making people miss.

His kind of sense of spatial awareness was insane. Baker, phenomenal, you know, accurate big-time arm cerebral cat who if you know he could just diagnose the defense as good as anybody and then tat you know the ability to throw from those different angles and arm dexterity and move in different platforms and see the entire field so i was just very fortunate to work with all three and each one had had things that they did that are as good as anybody's ever done in the history of football really