The Kevin Sheehan Show - Commanders Off; Chiefs Offsides

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

No Commanders game this weekend but Kevin has plenty of Commanders talk with his guest, ESPN's John Keim. Before Keim, Kevin recaps the NFL Sunday led by the two biggest games of the weekend, Dallas-Philly and KC-Buffalo. Also, some breaking Wizards/Caps to Virginia news!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Second and ten. They came after him on the last one. I don't think they'll sit back consistently.

Here they come again. There's a flag down at the line of scrimmage as the pass. This to an open Travis Kelsey. Who flings it back over to Tony. My goodness. This is going for a touchdown. This is not. a design play. Kelsey's always looks around as if he's a quarterback and he does this.

And I can't believe, but I think it's coming back. Number 19, offense lined up in the neutral zone. Wow. Five yard penalty. Check him out. Tony was lined up. You got to be kidding me. In the neutral zone.

So the last time the chiefs were called for offensive offsides, 1995, according to the, the research. It was called against Jeff Criswell in week seven against the Patriots. However, offensive off-sides has been flagged much more this year than in recent years. More on that coming up in a moment. The show today presented, as always, by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com for a great deal. John Kime will be on with. me. He comes up in the next segment. There's some news related to the Wizards and Caps, potentially moving out of D.C. to Northern Virginia. I will get to that here in the opening

segment. But we start with what was a nice day off from having to watch Washington play a regular season game. They've got four left starting on Sunday against the Rams. Then they play the Jets, than the 49ers and the Cowboys to finish up their 2023 slate. One month today, we will know for sure that Ron Rivera and much of his staff, if not his entire staff, I believe, will be gone. One month today will mark the Monday following the season finale against the Cowboys. And I think there could be other major announcements with respect to the rest of the organization as well. I've got some news related to what's next coming up here in a moment.

But quickly on the day yesterday that did not include, thank goodness, the commanders, it was nice to sit back and watch NFL football without having to worry about a commander's 45 to 10 loss. I actually was in New York for the weekend, was on my way back during the 1 o'clock games, got back at halftime of the 1 o'clock games. So I caught the rest of the one o'clock's, the entire Buffalo, Kansas City game and everything that was going on in the late window. And then Dallas, Philadelphia, start to finish. But I wanted to start with Kansas City and Buffalo. First of all, I just want to say, I think Buffalo, if they get into the postseason, is going to be a very dangerous team in the AFC. And the AFC playoff picture right now is so bunched up.

It is in the NFC as well. And the AFC right now, you have all but basically two teams that if they were to run the table with four wins, would likely be in the postseason. Now, the Jets at 5 and 8, the Raiders at 5 and 8, and the Chargers at 5 and 8 certainly don't look capable of running 4 in a row. But if they were to run 4 in a row, more likely than not, they would be in at 9 and 8, or certainly right there with. The chance at 9 and 8. Justin Herbert's hurt. He's not going to play in the Thursday night game against the Raiders. He broke a finger in the loss to Denver yesterday.

I'm not, trust me, I don't think the Chargers, Raiders, or jets are going to make a run. And the Titans play tonight. They are in the smell test more on that later on. Just a confirmation a little bit later on that they are in the smell test. They are in the smell test, but you'll hear me talk about it before the last segment of the show today. But Buffalo is currently based on tiebreakers, the 11th place team in the AFC at 7 and 6. Cincinnati is 7 and 6. Denver is 7 and 6. Houston is 7 and 6. Indy is 7 and 6. Pittsburgh is 7 and 6. That is a group right there of 6 teams all vying for the 6.

and seven spot in the AFC. They're all tied based on record for the sixth spot and the seventh spot. Currently, the Steelers and the Colts hold the tiebreakers. Cleveland is in the five spot. Their division race is still alive. Technically, you know, Cleveland still got a shot in the AFC North. Buffalo's a long shot at this point. AFC West, Denver is only a game back of Kansas City, AFC South, two teams, Indian Houston are only a game back of Jacksonville. But man, you have 11 legitimate teams in the hunt for the six and seven spot, actually the five spot two. And then another three teams that are still within, you know, two games of that postseason spot or two wildcard wise in the AFC.

crazy crazy race. Buffalo, though, out of all of those teams, I think by far and away is the most dangerous if they were to get in. And they went to Kansas City, and for the third time in the regular season, they beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead 20 to 17, but not without incredible controversy in the final two minutes of that game. If you haven't seen the play, you should Google it. It's one of the most amazing plays you'll ever see. A pass. from Mahomes to Kelsey, Kelsey on the run, then stops and throws a pass backwards, lateral, but it's not a pitch lateral, it's a pass across the field to Cadarius Tony, who runs it in for a touchdown. Now, that would not have given them the win. This was not a final Hail Mary kind of a play.

There was a minute 12 left on the clock when Cadarius Tony crossed the goal line. Buffalo still had three timeouts left. They would have gotten the ball back down 24. a 20 if the play had stood. It was a risky play, by the way, as far as Kelsey goes. I mean, he could have been hit as he was getting ready to delateral it, and it would have been a fumble. It was, they were in field goal range with plenty of time to still go for the touchdown in the spot that he was in on the field.

A field goal would have tied it. It was really, I mean, I don't know how many people in the midst of the controversial penalty that followed talked about how outrageously high, risk that Kelsey play was and how totally unnecessary it was. Again, they would have been at the Buffalo, they would have been at the Buffalo 23-yard line with a minute 12 to go, still, by the way, two timeouts left, down three with plenty of time. By the way, in a better position to either, you know, tie the game late and not leave Buffalo with any time left, or score a touchdown and leave Buffalo with a lot of time left. So the play itself, while wild to watch, was not,

I don't think, a recommended play for Kelsey. But anyway, as you probably know by now, Cadarius Tony was called for lining up off sides. And this has not sat well at all with the chiefs, especially Patrick Mahomes, who went off on the sideline at the end of that game, after the game. Same with Andy Reed. It is a rare call, not as rare as you would think. More on that coming up in a moment. What you did see, though, without question, was Cadarius Tony line up offside. You also saw, for the most part, Cadarius Tony, at least there's no evidence as of the recording of this podcast,

that Cadarius Tony actually did what Terry McClearn did last year against the Giants, remember, in the late season game that they lost to New York before a touchdown that would have given Washington a chance to go for two and tie the Giants late in that December game, and that is check with the referee to see if he was okay in terms of an alignment, or if he needed to move up or move back a little bit. You did not see Cadarius Tony do that.

Cadarius Tony lined up off sides, and the referee in the game yesterday said the following. Carl Chaffers, the head referee in the pool report, said that the down judge Mike Carr saw Tony lined up offside. Quote, ultimately they are responsible for wherever they line up. No warning is required, especially if they are lined up so far off sides where they're actually blocking our view of the ball. We would give them a warning if it was anywhere close, but this particular one is beyond a warning, closed quote.

So in the estimation of Carl Chuffer's endown judge, line judge, Mike Carr, they couldn't even see the ball. So if Tony had turned to them and said, hey, maybe they would have said back up, we can't even see. We can't even tell you're so far off sides. And maybe they would have backed them up. But they have no requirement to do so. They don't. Just like when Terry McCorn looked to the referee, and it's a little bit debatable as to whether or not he got a thumbs up or not in that giant game. They don't have a requirement.

Usually you will get something from the referees, but they're not required to do so. So if you're curious like I was to find out or to know how rare offensive offsides is in the NFL and whether or not, you know, Kansas City is somewhat normal with respect to the last time they were called for offensive offsides. which for them was all the way back in 1995, I did a little Googling before the show. And actually, Peter King did a lot of the research for his MMQB or Football Morning in America column. Because observationally from the season, I have definitely noticed more offensive off sides penalties having been called

and definitely more defensive off sides penalties having been called. I mean, we've talked a lot on. this show specifically about the Cowboys and all of their pre-snap lining up off-sides penalties. So how rare is it? Well, here you go. Here are the numbers. From 2016 through 2019, not one offensive off-sides penalty was called. Four seasons, 16, 17, 18, and 19, not one.

Then in 2020, there were six called as they decided to emphasize that. It was a point of emphasis, and there were six offensive off sides penalties called in 2020. However, in 2021 and 2022, maybe because of the emphasis and the number that were called the year before, just one in 2021 was called, and just two offensive offsides penalties in 2022 were called. this year, through the game late yesterday afternoon between Buffalo and Kansas City, there have now been 12 offensive off-sides penalties called. Now, a lot of that is attributed to the Brotherly Shove or the Tush Push play, the quarterback sneak with, you know, and I think Philadelphia actually in the game last night

got called, so that would be 13 offensive off-sides penalties. but there has been a bit of an emphasis on that. But the bottom line is that Cadarious Tony's been, you know, in many ways hurtful to the Chiefs since he got there. He had the big punt return in the Super Bowl, that's for sure. And he's had a couple of memorable plays. But he's dropped passes. I mean, the Chiefs lead the league in drop passes.

They had another four yesterday. He's had bad penalties in the past. And he lined up off sides. You know, they can bitch all they want. They can say all they want that, you know, the referee should have moved him back. But Cadarious Tony, at least as of now, unless something else has come out, did not look for confirmation that he was lined up legally. And again, they don't have an obligation to provide him with that information anyway.

Look, the chiefs are struggling right now. I mean, they really are. It's amazing. Maybe it is the loss of Eric B. Enemy. or Juju Smith-Schuster. They're certainly not as explosive offensively as they have been in years past. They've now lost three out of their last four games. They're eight and five.

You know, they still had an opportunity after that play was called back. They had a third and 15 and a fourth and 15. And, you know, part of what I think Mahomes was really upset about was he basically was very calm in the loss last Sunday night at Lambo when there was definitely a pass interference call missed on Valdez Scantling at the end of that game that would have put them in position to score a touchdown, go for two to tie it and force overtime. But they still had two more plays yesterday, and how many times have we seen Mahomes, you know, come up with a magic act on third and 15 or fourth and 15, and he didn't last night. In fact, the fourth and 15 throw was, you know, under pressure, but it was pretty, you know, it was pretty bad.

didn't create at all, and the bills won a game that they had to have, you know, 20 to 17, that puts them right back into the mix. I mean, their schedule is, you know, pretty brutal. They played the Cowboys Sunday in Orchard Park. So they've had the Eagles, Chiefs, and Cowboys in three consecutive weeks. They close with the Chargers, Patriots, and Dolphins. The Chargers now could be in big, big trouble. They already are record-wise, but without Herbert. They're and bad shape. But man, if Buffalo gets in, them hanging on for that win yesterday, they had a 14-0-0 lead in that game as well.

But if they can somehow put together another, you know, I think they probably have to win three out of their final four to get to 10 to ensure a playoff berth. Two out of their final four gives them a shot at 9 and 8, but they're just so many seven and six teams. You would think that two, of those six, seven, and six teams are able to win three out of their final four to get to ten wins. And with Cleveland at eight and five in the five spot, yeah. Now, the bills do close with the

dolphins. They're seven and six. The dolphins play tonight. And they play tonight as a two-touchdown favorite. If they win the game, they're 10 and three. They're three in front of Buffalo. And they would have, you know, the opportunity to close it out. They play the Jets this coming week, but they close with the Cowboys, Ravens, and Bills. So there is still a chance for Buffalo or if they were to run the table and get to 11 and 6. Because they beat the Dolphins earlier in the year, they could potentially play the Dolphins for the AFC East title in the final weekend of the year. If the Dolphins lose two games and they do have the Cowboys in two weeks on Christmas Eve and they've got the Ravens on the road on New Year's Eve. there's still some big, big games left in the NFL.

The other big game came last night. Dallas, they got it done. They got their signature win. They throttled Philadelphia 33 to 13. You know, Philadelphia moved the football, as they have, kind of between the 20s, but they have really been pretty bad in the red zone in particular. But where Philadelphia is really bad is on defense, and I'll get to that in a moment, because I do want to give the Cowboys their proper due

because I have friends who are Cowboy fans, Cowboy Clay, Kenny, others who say often that I don't give them enough credit when they win. Well, I mean, until yesterday, until last night, they really hadn't beaten anybody. I mean, they beat the Seahawks last Thursday, but that was a 41 to 35 shootout. But given their due, the Cowboys are rolling. They've won five in a row.

the offensive ability of the Cowboys. Dax playing the best football of his career. C.D. Lamb has developed into an absolute stud. I love have fallen in love with. I don't know how cowboy fans feel. Maybe you guys saw this coming, but I didn't see Jake Ferguson coming. You know, the fourth round pick from back in 2022.

He only had 19 catches last year. He's got 51 this year. And he is much more athletic than I think he even. gets credit for. And then, you know, you've got the rest of them. You've got Gallup. You've got Brandon Cooks, who just seems to always be open. Kavante Turpin's a big time weapon.

You know, whether it's on reverses or fly sweeps, Pollard's playing well. Dowdell got banged up a little bit. They're really good on offense, really good on offense. And then on defense, they have exceptional players as well. Stefan Gilmore last night was lights out, I thought. But give Dallas credit. They're 10 and 3. They're tied with Philadelphia.

Philly's problem is defense. They are a bad defensive football team. It's really, you know, every year is a different year. Bill Barnwell really laid it out nicely in his long column about four teams that are struggling, Kansas City, Detroit, Jacksonville, and Philadelphia. And he wrote, let's keep it simple. The Eagles defense is bad. Not bad by last year's standards.

Not bad by Philadelphia standards. bad by their expectations heading into the season, not bad by the measure of other Super Bowl contenders. Over this six-game stretch that followed the win over the Dolphins, they have a strong case as one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Since their win over Washington at FedEx Field, they are dead last on third downs, allowing 54.8% on third down. They also are near last on fourth downs, allowing eight-four-five. 14 on fourth downs. They can't get off the field. Their defense cannot get off the field. This is something we talked a lot about earlier in the season when Washington had great success against

the Eagles with their offense and Sam Howell looked great in the two games against the Eagles. But the Eagles are a bad defensive football team. Because they can't get off the field, their offense isn't getting enough opportunities. Last night, the Cowboys had 36 minutes and 36 seconds time of possession to 23 minutes, 24 seconds for the Eagles. They ran 74 plays to the Eagles, 52 plays. Last week against the 49ers, it wasn't nearly as bad in terms of time of possession, but that's because they let the 49ers roll it all up in three quarters. They got some stops early and they dominated the first quarter time of possession,

but then got completely dominated the rest of the way. The 49ers missed on their first two third downs and then went eight for their next eight before missing basically at the end when they were running the clock out. The Eagles have been beaten the last two weeks, 75 to 32. And don't forget, they gave up 34 against the business. in that overtime win against Buffalo. When Buffalo dominated time of possession because Philly couldn't get off the field on third down or fourth down,

Buffalo was 13 of 22 on third down in that loss. They ran 92 plays and rolled up 505 yards and lost the game. So what's different about Philadelphia? Why are they so bad defensively this year versus last year? Well, they've got different players and a different defensive coordinator. Last year they had Jonathan Gannon. He's the head coach in Arizona. Last year, they had different linebackers for the most part.

They had CJ Gardner Johnson. Up front, they had Javon Hargrave. Now, they replaced him with Jalen Carter, a pretty good replacement. They're also older at Corner. We've talked about that this year. Bradbury doesn't look like the same player. Slay's still a good player. Don't get me wrong, but they're a year older.

Philly's just not the same personnel-wise on defense. And, you know, we've talked about this before. but offenses year to year, there's much less variance with respect to overall production than there is with defenses. Defenses, you know, can get, you know, even with similar personnel, there can be great variability year to year in terms of production. We've seen that with Washington this year. Last year, a top 10 defense by a lot of key metrics.

This year, the worst in the NFL per DVOA. Yeah, the worst in the NFL. NFL 32nd and DVOA. But Philadelphia is going to have to do it offensively if they're going to make a run to the division title, which they actually have a much easier schedule. They play Seattle next week on Monday night. Then they've got two against the Giants and one against the Cardinals, while the Cowboys have Buffalo, Miami, and Detroit the next three weeks before finishing at Washington. So Philadelphia still holds the inside track to the division title. based on schedule.

But if they're going to do anything in the postseason after being absolutely hammered the last two weeks by what I think now are the two front runners in the NFC, the 49ers are the front runner. But I think the Cowboys now have emerged as the second best team in the NFC and the biggest threat to the 49ers because they're a more complete team than the Eagles are right now.

The Eagles, you know, we're winning all those close games and they were doing it with that championship medal that people talked about. But man, smoke and mirrors on defense. And really this year, think about this. The New York Jets who can't score against anybody, now they did yesterday against Houston in the second half, right? They lost to the Jets. You know, the Jets, no, I think they scored on defense. But the Eagles have struggled defensively all year long. and it's interesting to see them right now. They look like a tired team also. And to be fair to them, all right,

and this is not a shot at the Cowboys win or the 49ers win last week because I think they were both better teams and even if Philadelphia had come into the game as rested, I think the outcome wouldn't have been that much different. But Philly had last week the 49ers off a 49ers Thursday mini-buy situation, and they had the same with Dallas yesterday. Dallas came in as the well-rested team after playing back-to-back on Thursdays against Washington and Seattle, and Philadelphia had that game against the 49ers late Sunday.

So a bit of a scheduling advantage for their last two opponents, but still, man, I mean, they could have easily lost to Buffalo, could have easily lost to the Chiefs on Monday night, could have easily lost to the Cowboys. They have trailed at halftime in six consecutive. games. They've won four of them to their credit. To their credit, they've won four of them. They have not looked legitimately good since beating the dolphins all the way back in late October on Sunday night football. Could they get it rolling again? Sure, but will we have faith that it's legit with the Giants twice and the Cardinals among their final four games? I don't know. But good

win for the Cowboys. Elsewhere around the NFL, let me just quickly focus on a couple of of games. How about the Bucks coming from behind to beat Atlanta 2925? I mean, two teams that haven't been super offensively got into a second half shootout and Atlanta behind Baker Mayfield and a long drive at the end of the game beat the Falcons 2925 despite 347 passing yards for Desmond Ritter, the best day yardage wise, I think, of his very young career. And in that NFC South now with Orleans beating Carolina yesterday. Three teams, excuse me, three teams are

six and seven. So that'll be quite the tussle down the stretch. And it's not, unlike the NFC East a few years ago, it's not like it's impossible that you only end up with one team in the postseason because it's still very possible that an eight and nine team

gets into the postseason in the NFC. Staying in the NFC. The 49ers continued with their ways. 2816 over Seattle wasn't easy. Drew Lock got the start for an injured Gino Smith. But Christian McCaffrey, 16 carries 145 yards, 9.1 yards per carry. And Debo Samuel, just unstoppable.

Then in the NFC, how about Chicago over Detroit? They nearly beat them a few weeks ago at Ford Field. They blew a two-score lead. Yesterday, they beat the hell out of the line. Lions, 28, 13 in Chicago very quietly, very quietly is put together three wins in their last four with the one loss being that game against Detroit in which they had a two-score lead. And the Bears behind Justin Fields and an improved defense led by Montez Sweat. He had another sack yesterday. He's got three and a half now since the trade to Chicago.

He had four QB hits, eight QB hurries yesterday for the Bears and their win over the Lions. They've won two of the four games since the trade for Sweat. Could have easily been three out of four. You know, they blew the game to the Lions a few weeks ago being up 26 to 14 in the fourth quarter, and they lost 31 to 26. Montez Sweat reportedly said this yesterday. He said that Matt Eberflus, the head coach, deserves a lot. lot of credit for continuing to keep this team together because it wasn't like that where he was,

as in D.C. This is a really tight group. Everflus is a great coach, Sweat said. He keeps us motivated, a lot of respect for him as a coach. Closed quote. Sweat taking a little bit of a shot at his former team and pumping up a guy who's been on a seat that's very warm, but who knows. I mean, the Bears with four games left at 5 and 8 after starting 0 and 4 before they beat Washington. They were 2 and 7 at one point. Now they're 5 and 8. They play the Browns this week. And then after that, they've got Cardinals, Falcons at home, and they close out Lambo against the Packers.

I mean, the Bears, if they were to run the table, they'd be in the postseason at 9 and 8. If they win three of their final four, 8 and 9 is an outside possibility for the Bears. crazy. But the Chicago Bears look pretty good. And here's something to keep in mind when it comes to the Bears. You know, the more they win, the more they're winning because, in part, Justin Fields is playing well. What will they do with Carolina's number one overall pick? Will they draft Caleb Williams or Drake May or Jaden Daniels or will they keep Justin Fields and look to trade the pick? Or will they trade Justin Fields and use the pick? Who knows? Lots of of intrigue with Chicago over these final four weeks and then certainly in the offseason.

Remember, Washington holds the Bears' second round pick, which we thought would be super early in the second round, well, not if they continue to win. But then again, them continuing to win has improved Washington's first round pick. So there you go. And second round pick, for that matter. Bears, an interesting story. Justin Fields is an interesting story. They play the Browns, as I And the Browns just had Joe Flacco go for 311 yards and three touchdowns in their win over Jacksonville, 31 to 27. Miles Garrett after the game asked to describe new quarterback Joe Flacco, who Kevin Stefansky, the head coach said, he's now the starter the rest of the year. Of course he is. Miles Garrett's answer was, quote, he's elite, close quote.

Flashback back to the, is Joe Flacco elite? or not. Pretty funny from Miles Garrett. Flacco amazing. The reviews coming from Cleveland, keep in mind what they had, Dorian Thompson, DeShon Watson, not playing at a super high level, PJ Walker, etc. He's thrown for 565 yards and five touchdowns in two starts for the Browns, off his couch. He, as Stefanski said yesterday, he's got the experience. He's, he's, been there, done that. There's no doubt he's given us a lift. Closed quote. The Browns, what's interesting about them, a team where they were led by their defense. Now, in back-to-back games, three straight games, is given up 29, 36, and 27 points. They finished with the Bears,

Texans, Jets, and Bengals. They certainly look like a playoff team. Can they catch the Ravens? Who knows? How about the Ravens yesterday? Winning on a punt return in overtime. Second time that's happened this year. It happened with the Jets and the season opener, the game that Aaron Rogers got hurt in against the Bills. And you had an overtime punt return for a touchdown as a walk-off yesterday. The Ravens beat the surging Rams. I mean, that would have been a huge win for L.A.

But the Ravens win that game 37-31. But listen to what the Ravens have. Next Sunday night against the Jags. Then Christmas night against the 49ers. Then New Year's Eve against the Dolphins. and then they close with the Steelers. So, you know, the Ravens right now with a two-game lead over Cleveland and they split with Cleveland, they're not home-free as far as the number one seed

or the division title, not quite yet. They and the Dolphins, more likely after tonight, will be standing atop the AFC with Kansas City and Jacksonville now two games back. Trevor Lawrence did play in that game against Cleveland, but really struggled. Speaking of new quarterbacks playing anyway, not necessarily in a new place, how about the back-to-back games for Jake Browning? As Cincinnati rolls into yesterday 34 to 14 and Jake Browning now in the last two games, all right, after looking terrible in relief against Baltimore and really bad against Pittsburgh in his start.

He was 32-37 for 354 and a touchdown against Jacksonville in their overtime went on Monday night, at 34-31. Then they come back six days later and at home beat Indianapolis, 34-14. He was 18 of 24 for 275, two touchdowns, one pick. This guy's completion percentage now is 81.5% in two games. He had a 71.5 QBR yesterday was an 84.1 QBR against Jacksonville. Cincinnati left for dead after the Joe Burrow injury. They've won two in a row. They're now very much in the hunt with the Vikings at home on Saturday. The Vikings needed a late field goal with under two minutes to go to beat the Raiders three to nothing. Yesterday, two scoreless halftime games.

The Jets scored 30 in the second half behind Zach Wilson. Their defense completely shut down Houston. Stroud got injured after throwing for just like 80-something yards. They beat Houston 30 to 6 that Jets did. Can you imagine if they had had a backup quarterback that could play this year? But the Vikings also were scoreless with the Raiders at halftime. That game went to the final two-minute scoreless before Greg Joseph's field goal beat the Raiders 3 to nothing. It certainly would appear now that Josh Dobbs' days as a starting quarterback are over in Minnesota.

he was 10 for 23 for 63 yards. They brought in Nick Mullins career backup who's had some moments. I mean, Mullins, you know, has a lot of Heinicky in him, has a lot of Colt McCoy in him, and he nearly got picked a couple of times, but then made a couple of good throws to get him in field goal range. And the Vikings are 7 and 6. Their defense, you talk about a turnaround this year. One of the worst defenses in the NFL last year, one of the best this year under Brian Flores, who's done a phenomenal job.

The Broncos beat the Chargers 24 to 7. Herbert's out. The Broncos now six out of their last seven. And what other game is worth mentioning? Yeah, I guess that's pretty much it. Tonight, the two games and the smell test picks more on that before the final segment. But I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with both of them. Tennessee plus the points and the Giants plus the points.

All right. Two other things real quickly before we get to Kime. Number one is this. So I learned from multiple sources, and this is not a big deal at all, but I think it's interesting. I had two different people in the know share with me that Marty Herney has become a very trusted voice in the organization for new owner Josh Harris. Marty Herney brought to Washington by Ron Rivera, was in Carolina as their general manager forever.

Marty Herney's actual title is VP of football player personnel. The general manager in the organization is Mark Mayhew. But what I was told is that Marty Herney, at 67 years old and having been in the NFL now for 30-plus years in an executive role, you know, Charlie Casserly, Bobby Bethard, very responsible for making Marty Herney, turning Marty Herney from a beat reporter for the Washington Star Washington Times into a careered football executive. But I was told that while it's not, you know, any indication of whether or not Marty Herney is going to stay on in a significant role, it is an indication that Marty Herney is a very trusted, experienced voice that Josh Harris has come to lean on.

and Marty Herney knows the NFL. He knows the landscape. He knows the players. We have been wondering, like, so who's Josh Harris using to come up with his list of candidates for, you know, new team president or general manager or both, potentially? And, you know, he was a partial owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Kevin Colbert was there forever and he's unemployed right now or he's retired. I'm not saying that Marty Herney is the only guy. I was just told by two different people in the know that Herney in the organization is somebody that Josh Harris has come to lean on a little bit from a football standpoint in terms of, you know, looking towards the future. And remember this about Marty Herney too.

He's very familiar with the history of this team. I mean, he grew up in the area. He's a D.C. native. Native went to good counsel many, many years ago. went to Catholic University. You know, I've always said about this particular organization. You need more people in the organization that know the organization. Marty Herney's been in the organization and he knows the organization.

I'm just not sure people like Jason Wright or others have actually paid much attention. Certainly not Dan. And so maybe because Harris is smart and Rails is smart and magic, they've looked and found the guy that, you know, not only has a shitload of NFL executive experience, but really knows this franchise inside and out. So just something to keep in mind there. And then lastly, actually two things. Some breaking news is I'm recording this podcast, and I'll get to in a moment.

But I wanted to get quickly to this story written in part by Sam Fortier in the Washington Post. Also, Teo Armus, Laura Votsela. and Gregory Schneider, all part of a story titled, Lawmakers could vote today on plan to bring caps and wizards to Virginia. A group of Virginia state lawmakers plans to meet behind closed doors Monday afternoon to consider a potential deal to bring the Washington Caps and Wizards to a new arena in northern Virginia, according to four people with knowledge of the situation. Both teams would move to a facility anchoring a massive mixed-use development

in Alexandria's Potomac Yard neighborhood, according to three of the four, all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss details of the plan. A Virginia Stadium Authority would own the larger complex and lease it to monumental sports and entertainment, which owns the caps and wizards. Monumental has not definitively said whether it would move the pro teams into Virginia. If the deal goes forward, the company would put hundreds. hundreds of millions of its own dollars into the project, according to two people, briefed on the matter. The deal, if approved, would constitute a major economic development win for Virginia governor, Glenn Yonkin,

who has been hurting for such a victory after his party's losses in last month's state elections. It could also be a step in monumental owner Ted Leonas taking the company public a move. He openly considered in an interview with Bloomberg over this summer. So the idea of those two teams potentially moving out of Chinatown and into Northern Virginia is crushing for that area of the district. You know, the development of Capital One Arena back in 1997 and the opening of that revitalized that whole area. That area has been struggling here recently and pulling the two teams out would still leave Capital One Arena there for Georgetown games, presumably, for concerts, for other. you know, big events. But yeah, it would also, you know, they've been looking for money from the district.

They've been looking for $600 or so million in public funds for a major renovation. But, you know, D.C. right now is under budget constraints and, you know, they have the idea potentially of adding an RFK site new stadium for the football team. more on this tomorrow with Tommy and we will also tomorrow with Tommy I'll wait to get to the Shohei Otani $700 million deal but one last thing real quickly before we get to Kime and this is breaking news. Jamon Davis is out for the last four games of the season he's got a shoulder he's got a shoulder injury that he suffered in the Miami game and he's going to be placed on injury.

Reserve, Ron Rivera, just moments ago making that announcement that Jamin Davis is done for the season. So you'll probably get, you know, Cody Barton and David Mayo with a lot of Kaleek Hudson and others over the final four games. All right, let's get to John Kime next, after these words from a few of our sponsors. Jumping on with us right now, courtesy of our good friends at Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com for new windows. Give them the first shot. I've been endorsing Window Nation for 14 years. I promise you it will work out for you. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. Buy to get to free. Plus zero percent interest for five years right now is the Windon Nation deal. John Kime is with us. Of course, John has covered the

Washington football franchise. longer than anybody else on the beat. He is the dean of the beat. You can follow him, of course, at John underscore. John and I, John came on radio with me last week, and it was a couple of days after the Florida State decision for the college football playoff, and somehow that got into a conversation about John's absolute 100%.

I mean, this is your passion, right? Ohio State football before anything else? Yeah. Yeah. That's your thing. And so we got into a conversation about that. And 15 minutes later, I said, John, can you stick around for another segment? And there were several people that were thrilled with the conversation and others that said, please, when you have John on next time, I don't care about Ryan Day and Ohio State fans and the team up north.

I don't blame me. Yeah, I don't blame them. Well, I don't care. As long as, you know what, we entertained ourselves. So, yeah, yeah. You know, did you see the, did you see some of the, you know, this is probably internet speculation more than anything else? But with Justin Fields playing pretty well right now, or occasionally well, you know, Chicago will have that big decision with Carolina's number one overall.

Ryan Day to reunite with Justin Fields. What do you think about that in Chicago? I don't know. I haven't heard that. And I know his name will get brought up a decent amount. And I also think it's always, like, we've heard that. How many times do you hear that about college coach X is going to reunite the NFL with their former guy from college? You know, I mean, there was people said that about Urban Meyer and Dwayne Haskins, and that was never going to happen. Right.

So, you know, to be honest, like, if you're only going to. to the NFL to coach a quarterback, you're going to have some problems. That's what I would say. Because I would look hard at that organization to see, and starting with ownership, is that going to be a secure place just because they have Justin Peel? Now, I can see the Bears appeal to go in to get Ryan Day, but I have a hard time seeing Ryan Day's appeal going there unless you just want to go to the NFL.

And in that case, then, you know, you follow the money in your heart, I guess. Remember that Urban Meyer thing? Urban Meyer was in FedEx Field to see Dwayne Haskins against, I think it was against Philly, right? Well, it was to see several Ohio State players. It wasn't just... Right, including Terry McClure. It was not just for that. Correct.

Terry is like one of his favorite all-time players. Even though he did not give Terry much of a chance when Terry got there. He calls him one of the best. leaders I think he's ever had. But, you know, the team was pretty good when Terry was there. And he developed. So, and they had some really good, they've always had really good receivers. So, you know, it's kind of hard to say that he was holding him down, but Terry developed.

And that, you know, Terry took coaching, hard coaching very well. Right. were there. And so I think, you know, but I, you know, but no, I mean, he calls him one of his favorite, one of his best leaders. And when you meet McClor and you understand why. Yeah, it's the beginning of the relationship, though, between Terry and Urban Meyer, that's kind of Yeah. Well, it's, I'm not going to say it's a little bit. Yeah. It's that urban wasn't, yeah, Urban loved his character, but didn't think he was anywhere near as good as the other guys he had. Yeah, and, you know, I know he had to, you know, go back and earn the scholarship,

and it's a little bit mythologized. I remember talking to Terry about this and just how it was. Like, you went to the high state camp, you're not good enough, come back in a week, whatever, he goes home for a week, catches 100 balls every day to come back and he's better. I think it was quite that, like, simple or harsh. but bottom line is paraphrasing the clipnosed version

that is kind of what happened where you know he had to go back and prove himself and I think all of that has made McCorn what he is now

because he's never stopped feeling like he has to improve or prove himself so you know but yeah no he was a phenomenal I remember

before he came here I remember I remember during that draft process in the early part of the draft somebody wrote something about him, and I retweeted it and said he's a culture changer because he is. That's the kind of guy he was. I know what they thought about him there, and, you know, he certainly has been what you heard about. You know, I went to the whiteout game at Penn State.

My son was a freshman that year, and it was the first time I'd been to a Penn State whiteout game, and, you know, a bunch of parents are up there for it, and it's the Ohio State Penn State Penn State. state game back in 2018. And they were down a bunch in the second half. And Haskins came back, and it was Terry McClorn, who was, I think, on the, I think it was pretty, would it have been Terry in 2018?

Yeah, it would have been Terry in 2018 because his rookie year was 2019. But I'm pretty sure it was Terry. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Terry who had a couple of the big catches at the end. the game. I'm looking up the, no, it was K.J. Hill. It would, in Paris Campbell. Jay Hill is the one that had it. Yeah, I'm wrong.

They went to a lot of smoke routes and the receiver screens, and I don't remember Terry having that. I remember him against Maryland. And Terry's speed that last year showed up, and that was surprising to learn how fast he was, because you didn't see it early on. Right. Because he didn't show it, because they didn't showcase that. But in that game, like, yeah, KJ. Hill had the game when he touched. down and Duane's was a huge win for him. Good.

Huge win. Coaching adjustments. Yeah, it's huge. There's a good coaching adjustments. Went to a lot of screens, you know, horizontal passing game, and it worked. I'm thinking, you're right. Your memory of this is better than mine. I watched him throw to Paris Campbell into KJ Hill, Dwayne Haskins at Penn State.

But later that year, I saw them play at Maryland in that 52 to 51, overtime game in which Terry had a big day against Maryland. In fact, I think he had one of the late touchdowns in the second half. It was back and forth, pulling up the box score right now. So here's a fun little thing for that because I was at that game. Four catches 118 yards and a touchdown in that game. They were down like 17 to 3 or 176 or something like that. 17.3.

And he has a long. Good memory. Yeah, and he has a long touchdown catch. And so I was at the game. J.P. Finley had given me his tickets. My wife and I, my wife and I had to drive separately, so I was going to meet her at our seat. But until she got there, I was going to stand behind the Ohio State section, right, where the family is and all that.

So McCleor and had to catch that touchdown pass, and you're finally like, kind of like, okay, here you go. But people are going crazy, and this woman comes out running up, and she's going crazy, jumps them, you know, end up hugging her, and turns out it was Terry's mom. there he go so yeah he was a guy that was hard

to to not root for because he did everything he was special teams it was you know blocking as a receiver he did all that stuff that's why he was a kind of guy

like that's what these guys thought they were getting his special teamer and third or fourth you know third or fourth receiver type right so but yeah no that game was that they should have lost it um yeah Ohio Ohio State that year with Haskins they lost

to Purdue that year, and that was what kept them out of the playoff. But Maryland in that 52-51 overtime game, they scored, and they went for two in the win, and they missed it. I mean, it's funny, Maryland. It was kind of open, too. Yeah, yeah. I think it was Piggum, Terrell, Piggy, as we refer to. Yeah, it was. I think it actually, somebody I think actually had a false start that they didn't call. Something like that. It's like it could have, it could helped one team or another, and, you know, it didn't help Maryland. But, yeah, but that was quite a game. Anthony McFarland, Jr. Dematha product, 298 yards rushing for the terms of that game.

Because they didn't know how to stop an outside run. And Maryland just hammered him at it. So, anyway. Do you know who coached that game for Maryland? I'm pretty sure I'm right about this. Matt Canada. I'm pretty sure Matt, really? Yeah, I'm pretty sure Matt Canada.

was the interim coach for DJ Durkin after he was let go that year. Oh, that's what, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the funny thing about Matt Canada at Pittsburgh couldn't scheme up in offense, but the Terps under him in that particular season scored a lot of points. You know, they? Yeah, no, they did. Yeah. All right.

He was offense still isn't doing very well without Matt Canada. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. All right, there we did it again. We weren't talking about the Washington Command. Anders. So a couple of things, a couple of items here before we get to the actual football team. So in the open to the podcast, I mentioned that I had a couple of people tell me that Marty Herney actually has become a trusted voice for Josh Harris in the organization, not necessarily,

you know, telling me that Herney will be kept on as sort of the football lead, but that Herney is an advisor on sort of what will come next. Have you heard anything similar? Yeah, I heard that he was a respected voice, yes. And, you know, you hear things from outsiders, and it's like some of the stuff, like, don't even want to say because we don't know, right? I can't say, like, you hear, like, could he stick around?

Well, you know, you hear things, but it's not enough to report it. But what I do know is that it sounds like, just like you, that he's a respected voice. for Harris. What that means from here, I don't know. But it is like, you know, yeah. Yeah. I mean, Marty Herney's been around the league now for a long time. I mean, you know, Bobby Bethard was, you know, along with Charlie Casserly, were really the ones that gave Marty all of those opportunities when, you know, at Washington after he left the Washington Star at the time. It wasn't even the Washington Times. I don't think it may have become the Washington Times.

No. No. Yeah. Was it the star? It was the star. It was the star. I know that. Had it become the Times? Who knows? By that point, he was at the Washington Times, I think the star was already long ago. Okay. And then he became the PR guy for Washington and eventually worked his way up to, you know,

a spot with the Chargers, with Bethard, and then eventually to Carolina where he became, you know, a longtime general manager in the league. So he knows the landscape of the league. So anyway. And he knows the landscape of the organization and the fan base. So it's another local person, in essence, for them to kind of tap into as well.

Yeah, good point. So I also just want to make sure that you're on the same page as far as this announcement on Friday about moving business operations to College Park. This means nothing with respect to where the next stadium will go, correct? No, no, God, we're so far, we are far from knowing where that next site is. No, that is, this is not connected to that, you know, no. there's a long way to go in that process. Like, they really did start back at square one.

And so, no, that we're, I mean, Kevin, it could be, you know, I mean, it could be another year and a half before we know where that place is going. So that would be premature to think that. Yeah, and I think people have to kind of wrap their arms around the fact that they're going to play the next five years at FedEx Field. Five. If it's only five, I think I'd be happy. Okay.

Yeah, at least five. Yeah, oh, definitely. I mean, again, like, something would have to really fast track it, and the only place I think you fast track it for is R of K. If you think you've got X, Y, and Z lined up, and then you just fast-track it there. But that's not going on. So, you know, I think that's why I say, I think it's going to take longer.

And even in that perspective that they had that Seth Wickersham and I wrote about several months ago, they had also kind of looked at like 2030 or 2030-one, something like that, to moving into a new stadium. So I still, I would look more at that timetable than anything else because, again, they had to go back to square one. and that means, you know, getting to know people and, you know, and it's not as simple as, okay, hey, we're going to do this for you. Boom, let's go. It's not that simple. There's so much that goes into it that it's going to take a while. So, you know, buckle up, folks. Could

take a minute. Yeah, for sure. John last week, along with Jeremy Fowler, wrote a really good story, which we talked about last week a couple of times on the podcast, titled How the Commanders Reach the crossroads and what comes next. They had a lot about the trading of Montez-Swett and Chase Young and Josh Harris's input into that. By the way, Montes-Swett had another excellent game for the Bears yesterday. And then there was a lot in there on Eric B. Enemy in particular and some in there on Jack Del Rio as well.

So I'd ask the person responsible for writing this story along with Jeremy Fowler, what did you think were the big takeaways for? Washington fans or should have been? I think I'd probably go more to the enemy because that seems to be the one question that fans would have remaining in this situation, right? And just, you know, if he the guy that would, because there's a lot of talk, like, they should keep him around. They should do this.

I think when you dig into it, I think, you know, it's not going to be, it's certainly not that simple. And you know, like, there's, there's, there's, Obviously, not every player, but there's certainly been some tension there. And that's one of the things we talked about. I don't blame BNME for all the issues on offense. I think that would be silly given the situation he stepped into, which is not a great offensive line, a quarterback with one start, you know, et cetera.

And it's not like they had a lot of their – it thought they'd been coming off offensive success. So it was always going to take a minute, so you can't – can't be as simple as like, well, you know, he's harsh to them or he's just really hard on them, blah, blah, blah. Well, that's why there's a lot of other factors here, right? So, but, you know, I think that to me is the big one. And also, because the other part to that is they're going to look outside. You know, they're just going to look outside this organization.

And if you hire an office to my head coach, you're not going to keep the enemy around. because it's an offensive-minded head coach. And even if it's a defensive guy, I think it's going to be, I would be surprised, right? Just because I could just see them wanting just to kind of move on from everything. And, you know, but that would be, I would also say they're going to leave it up to whomever's in charge. Whatever, whoever the new GM, whoever the new coach is, that's who's going to make all these decisions. So I think the other thing is, too. And, you know, I know you've heard a lot of the same stuff.

And there's more, right? But, you know, so I know how, I don't know how, I don't know for some people who know it, how revealing was it to you. But I think for a fan, like to see it, and also to kind of walk through the process of how certain decisions were made that are major football decisions, like the trade or the firing of Del Rio. and how Josh Harris, his involvement in those, I think one of things, when you look bigger, bigger picture, the takeaway is he's not Dan Snyder. And you probably already knew that, but maybe you weren't sure. But that's one, that's another, I think, a takeaway is that it's just he's not the same guy.

Like, he will ask questions. He will demand, not demand, he will have certainly high expectations for your work and for what you should produce. But he's not going to go to you and say, you need to make this move right now or else you're fired. It's not his MO. And I think that's, you know, and I think the patient approach or the process approach is the one he takes. And I think, you know, that may take a minute for some fans here to get used to. But I think it's, to me, it's the right one. But I think that's another thing I think you can take away from this is just how they reach some of those decisions.

and it wasn't because an owner meddling, like, and, you know, the example is with the Carson Wentz trade. It wasn't, you know, like, you know that there was a, well, you didn't get the Russell Wilson trade completed, so get this deal done now and kind of put a clock on getting it done, which then puts the leverage back in the Colts hands, when they really didn't have any because they really didn't want to keep the guy. So there doesn't seem to be any of that going on, which I think should be pleasing to Washington fans. You know, there are two other things. First of all, I agree with you. And I have to be careful because my perspective is different that may be than from a lot of people listening because you're right. I think a lot of people in the media have heard a lot of things as it relates to the enemy in the relationships. And again, probably not all his fault. Maybe just, you know, the wrong place for a guy like him. Who knows? But I thought that was obviously very interesting. But two other quick things. One is it actually. It actually. actually sounded like Del Rio was a bit surprised in taking aback that he got fired. Yeah, yeah, and I think, you know, it's funny because I even asked him at a time, like,

which he surprised, like, a little bit. But I think there was also, I think, you know, he's a head coach, though, too. And, you know, at some point, you kind of know, like, something's going to happen, right? So it may have been a surprise, but I don't know that it was as much a shock. But yes, there was certainly, it certainly seemed like that as well, yeah. And then the other thing was you write, you guys write, the coordinator changes cast appall over Rivera's future because of how much faith and responsibility he places in them.

Several team sources said Rivera deferred to his coordinators on decision-making, sometimes to a fault. One of the team sources saying, quote, Ron needed to take more ownership, closed, quote. why don't you think he did at any time take more responsibility or be more involved in the day-to-day, that's the lack of a better description, versus being the delegating CEO coach? I think, to be honest, I think he's been comfortable with that. And I think it was something that when they were rolling in Carolina, you know, go back to Carolina.

But when you were rolling there, he had Sean McDermott. he had Steve Wilkes. And so there was a lot of trust that he placed in them to do their jobs. And so, you know, I think it worked. So when you come here and you're doing the same thing. And, you know, Kevin, I also wonder, too, how much the cancer affected his ability to take on more for a couple years. Right.

Because that stuff, that stuff impacted them not just that, not just 2020, but it impacted them for a few years, you know, and just like the stamina that you had, the energy level that you had. So he really needed to have coordinators that he could trust to do their job. And he would sit in on meetings. He would do stuff and meet with players and all that. But yes, I do think that that was something that you'd hear. And like with the enemy, when he came in, he gave him a lot of control and say and how meetings and how the days were structured and how the practices were structured and that was unusual and I know you know if there were issues with the enemy he wanted the players to go to him to go to the enemy and that's one of the things that we you know was in

there too about the summer stuff so and I know like some players wish that he would take some of that back because I think they liked having that relationship with him right um because that's one of his strengths is that. It's being, you know, that, not necessarily the players coach, per se, but just a guy that had some open communication with his players. And I think that was a, but I think that's what he liked. Like, I don't, you know, it's funny because after they fired Del Rio, and some people wanted that move a long time ago, and they wanted it after the third game

of the year, which you weren't going to do. But they're like, oh, well, they don't, you know, because you say, like, this is not, I don't think Rivera really wants to be calling the plays. I think it just got to a point where it's like this is a last, this is the last thing maybe we can do to turn this around in his mind, right? Him thinking that to himself. But prior to that, I just, I think it was, you've got these guys, and you can talk to them. I think he did.

I mean, I know he did because, you know, they would talk about various aspects of it. And he would watch film and he would talk to them. but I think it's a matter of trust. And when he started to go in Carolina, I think that's when he didn't have, like on defense, the coordinators that maybe he's had as much confidence in as he had in Wilkes and McDermott, perhaps, and then he had to take on a role there too.

And I just don't think that's what he necessarily wanted to do. So I think there's, it's empowering coaches, seems to be what he preferred, and then he can handle all the other stuff. Even though he has said he was much more of a delegating CEO coach here than he was at Carolina. Yes. Yes. One quick question.

Other than the massive scheduling changes, you know, did he give Scott Turner basic freedom and autonomy over running the offense? Well, to a degree, but then you would hear, you know, there would be games where they'd get away from the run. and you ask them about it. He's like, yeah, we've got to get back to what we do. And the next week they'd run the ball more. And so, like, while there's, whereas with the enemy, it's like, well, this is what they're doing, right? This is what the style they want to run. And it's for this and this and this reason.

It's really helps them develop. It's really, you know, it's the extended handoff theory, et cetera. Other people would say you had a struggling off a line that wasn't great of past protecting, and you had a young quarterback, and you're asking to drop back 40 to 45 times a game. tough way to live, even in games where the score wasn't out of hand. But he seemed to be all on board with that. When Turner was here, I think there was definitely a desire at times to kind of inject the direction that he wanted to go with the offense. Just to, like, don't forget, this is what we need to do kind of thing.

All right, let's look forward. We're one month away from the first Monday after the regular season. season ends. I think we're all expecting there to be a lot of activity. Do you have a guess as to, A, the timeline and B, how they'll go about it? Will it be an overall team president who will hire a GM, who will hire a coach, will it be just a GM than a coach? Give me the timeline in your hunch on the next month plus. Well, I think the timeline would be pretty, quick. I don't know why, you know, short of winning their last four games, why you would need to not make a decision fast. And, you know, the understanding of always, well, the way he's always done

things is you get the, you get the GM who's going to hire the coach. Now, then it depends. I think even if there's a president, I'd say if it's Jason Wright or whomever, because Jason Wright still has a title. Is he going to stick around? I don't know. Is it going to be in the same? same fashion that it was when Jason Wright was hired. And it seems like with Harris that he likes to have the separation of church and states, the separation

of football side and then business side. So my sense has been that it would be hire the GM than hire the coach. So, you know, that I would, and I think as we know,

like it's going to be hard for the coach, because it depends on who they on where their team is at in the postseason. But with the GM, you can hire them after the season. So, you know, that, but I would expect it to be relatively soon. There's no reason to drag it out. And I don't think it'd be fair to the people here. You know, if you know that, you know, for the staff, people that you're going to let go,

let them have a chance to catch on somewhere, giving them as much chance as possible. Right. By the way, I want to make one thing clear for everybody. Jason Wright is the Washington Commanders team president. Now, he has responsibility over the business operations of the organization, and Ron's had responsibility over the football. But he is actually, by title, the team president of the organization. And what John was just alluding to, I don't know if you were about to go there, but I think I will. it's very possible that Jason Wright could stay on, but not as the team president with responsibility over the entire organization.

There would be a separation of making sure that whoever is in that role is more of the business person, and then somebody would be in an equal role on the football side, titleless. That's correct, right. And, you know, because I just, I mean, the way it was set up was not under Josh Harris. So, you know, and I know the way he does other stuff, there's a separation. And so I could see, certainly could see that happening here. Okay. And then, but yeah, I don't, you know, like, and if he said, he was given everybody, or he's told, Josh Harris told people give everybody that full year so he could fully evaluate

what he has and what he wants going forward in the organization. All right. Quick break, John will stick around and we'll get to Sam Hal next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Go to my bookie.com. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. And MyBooky will give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. Four and one on the NFL yesterday, smell test-wise, with two picks pending tonight. I've got the giant. plus the points. It was six and a half on Friday. I bought the half point to get it to seven. You're at six and a half at my bookie right now. I've seen a lot of sixes out there. So if you want to

try to get it to seven, sign up with my bookie right now. And then Tennessee plus the 14 at home against Miami. So four and one yesterday. I did have Navy on Saturday. So a four and two smell test so far this weekend with two Monday night games pending. By the way, Washington at MyBooky right now, a six and a half point underdog in a game Sunday that starts at 405. MyBooky.orgie.ag promo code Kevin D.C. We continue with John Kime, and I want you to play general manager here for a moment because we have no idea what the new regime will want, who they will want, what their preferences will be. I want to know what you think should happen. You're the GM.

What do you do at quarterback? Right now, let's say they stick out four, right? You're still probably looking at possibly the third quarterback in the draft. I'm assuming, let's say they all come out, right? You're looking at the third quarterback. Is that where you want to go? It's like, let's say it's Jane Daniels. And I haven't studied at all.

Like, you know, I talked to some people last week who were like, well, this season moved Daniels in his talk about him into the first round. Nobody, they, you know, and this is just one person's opinion, but it wasn't like they said, well, he's now moved into the top five consideration. And maybe he gets there because the position he plays in the multidimensional threat that is. But there's so much to learn there with him. So, you know, I could see, like, there's a lot that I really like about Sam. And I'm really intrigued by these next four weeks. I mean, it's really all about, on the field, it is all about him. Because they need to decide to show.

What I still want to see is, you know, the handling of pressure and some more consistency with that, not just on him. And it's not all about him. Like, he needs some help around him for sure. But, and it doesn't mean it's like, okay, you completed this pass. That's great. It's about decision-making under duress, you know, regardless of the final results. and, you know, if he continues to handle that, then I'm comfortable building around him.

I will say, for sure, before I know I am going to study whoever's coming out, because I think you owe it to the organization to look, when you haven't had a quarterback for decades that has stuck around for more than a few years, you don't just say, well, we're good. You know what I mean? So if I'm the GM, it's impossible for me to say right now on December, whatever, today is that I'm going to go this way but I'm absolutely going to investigate another quarterback just to make sure because if you don't you're doing a disservice to your organization because

if you think that you know Jaden Daniels or Drake May if you have whoever you have a chance at has a much higher ceiling than how well then how do you not take them but if they come out and say you know what we're good here and they trade back a little bit to get more capital for someone who may want to move up to get one of those guys, then, you know, I'm fine with that because I like a lot of quality he has, but I absolutely, I would absolutely without saying for sure, because I don't know, but what I would do is check it out. I'm not going to close it off just because of what I've seen so far. I mean, there's stuff, there's a lot that I like, but what if you get someone else?

And then because then you look at it and say, okay, well, if you draft one of these guys, now you have a five-year clock again with a lower contract cost, and it's a new regime, so you're starting over. And, you know, so I'd be okay with that if that's what they determined. But I definitely would look at out, check it out, and just see, is this a better option or not? Because you owe it to yourself, the organization, the fans, whomever. You know, you can't come in and just say, well, this guy, it's problem solved. But if, you know, here's the other problem, Kevin, is that make it, make it, if you're howled,

make it as much a no-brainer as you can. That's what these next four games are about, and they're against good teams and good defenses, but that's a great test for him and the offense. Yeah. I know that probably didn't answer it the way you probably wanted. I mean, you do that all the time because you're more of a reporter, and I'm just a blabber.

So I say actually what you said, which is, I mean, for all intents and purposes, I think it would be irresponsible, based on what I've seen through 13 games, not to take seriously the quarterbacks at the top of this. All the quarterbacks in the draft, but given where they'll be drafting, and I'll throw one other caveat into it,

is that Chicago is likely to have the number one overall pick through Carolina, and Justin Fields all of a sudden is playing better. What if they're interested in trading that pick, and you're sitting there with the third or fourth pick in the draft? You may have an opportunity if Caleb Williams or Drake May, or, you know, I mean, it's been Caleb Williams for a year now, But if Caleb Williams really is, in your estimation, the next Patrick Mahomes, you'd be irresponsible not to do it. I'll read this one quote.

I'm looking for it real quickly. Give me a minute. But I got this tweet. I loved reading it last week. Here it is. Kevin, if they think the quarterback in the draft at their position is much better than Sam Howell, then pick him. If not, then don't. Yeah, that's all it is.

That's it. I mean, it's not really that hard. Yeah. No, and I'm okay with like if they said, you, Johnny. If they said, yeah, thank you. If they said, hey, we checked it out. We did this our due diligence, and we like Sam.

We just think he's better than build around him. No problem with that. You know, and you could then in that situation, you may be able to, here's, but here's what I would do in that case, Kevin. In that case, I'm going to try as hard as I can trade back, pick up another pick in this first, in this draft, another good pick, but also get something for next year. Copy the Eagles model.

They went with Jalen Hurth, but they protected themselves by getting another first-round pick in the following draft. Just in case, just in case. Because if it does, because part of it is it's not just the evaluation of Sam, it's also like, well, how good are these quarterbacks really? And it may be that, like, you know, we just like Sam better than this guy, but are you ready to commit to him for four or five years or just for this year and then see it and just see how he does? because if that's the case,

and I'm getting capital for next year too, just in case. And if you don't need it for that, then you've got more picks to, you can go out and trade for a guy. You can do whatever, you know, again, the Eagles model has worked as far as how they've approached the draft and their aggressiveness, and I would do that. I would add something in the future just in case, and again,

if Howell continues to improve and grow, and he looks like the guy for the next five to ten years, as John Allen says, great, then use those picks for some other capital. Perfect. All right. Great job. Am I going to hang up with you? And then there's going to be this bombshell story two hours later that's out on ESPN.com like I did last week. I'm kidding. No, and I did. I didn't tell you. I'm like, because you asked me last week, like, well, maybe you want to wait a day.

But I'm like, well, I wanted to make sure because sometimes the story is like, yeah, we're going to run it tomorrow. And it's like, you know what? We're going to hold it another day. No, I know. So it's like, you know, it's just you never know. And so, but yes, there's nothing. And, you know, there's nothing. I think, I think probably, to be honest, like, some of the stuff I'm writing next will probably be some of what we just talked about with Sam Howl. I mean, because we certainly haven't written and talked about him enough this year.

No, and what else? To be honest, at this point, what else? Nothing. Unless it's like, unless it's like, well, is Terrell Burgess going to make the Pro Bowl? I mean, that's kind of a funny story. That was hysterical. Okay, so let me just ask you. I mean, I saw that, and I'm like.

like, what? And I, actually, you know what? You and I did talk about this, but not on the air. We talked about it off the air. Because I said to you, I said, this has to have been a mistake where people voted for thinking they were voting for Jeremy Reeves. They just couldn't remember the name from last year. And you agreed with that, right? I do. Yeah, I do. And that's, like, I know he's made a couple plays, but it hasn't been, hey, top vote, you know. I mean, it's, like, Jeremy Reeves, like, you, you felt the impact last year. I mean, and again, I think Burgess has done a nice job on special teams

when I've been able to watch him. But yeah, no, that. But that's the point. Like, there's really, you know, I would, I'd be curious to see, like, just looking at the last four weeks, besides how, what other storylines are there really, and it's really about the future.

And it's, but it's hard to just talk about the future for the next one. When they're playing games. But, no, you're on. Yeah, and the play games. It's been about Sam Hal for a few weeks, and it will also be, for me, for me, I'm really interested because I think, you know, at some point, we'll get actual names of potential candidates.

Yeah. Or maybe we won't. Maybe we won't. Maybe they're so good there now and so tight-lipped that they'll, they're not going to, you know, put Ron out to, you know, out to pasture with, before, before they actually do it. I think they'll be respectful of him. Yeah, they like him, don't they, John? They like him.

They absolutely like him. I think in their druthers would be, hey, make it so that way you can stick around. But that's 4-9, that's not what's happening. But it does seem like they have a good relationship with him, and, you know, it sounds like he has liked working with them. So it's been a good relationship. It's just 4-9, and it's not. But so, like, the other part, so that's why I got on the field, does Emmanuel Forbes come back and does he play better? You know, like, because that guy is he's going to be here, you know, does Juan Martin play better?

You know what I mean? So, like, there are some young guys, but that's not moving the needle. Sam Howell moves the needle. And if he can play well and if, you know, and finish strong against good teams, then I think that would bode well for a lot of reasons. And, you know, but I would say this too, like, in some ways, if you're a GM or a coach, Whether you like how or not, you know you're in a good position at quarterback to either get a guy or compare him to a guy that has done something that you may like. You know, so I think they're in an okay spot in that regard. You know, as you're saying that, I'm like, you know, because we always talk about this about how quickly opinions change on teams, on players, on coaches, et cetera.

And with four games left, okay, you know, basically a quarter of the season, just a little bit less than a quarter of the season. I mean, the last two games were the two best defensive teams they faced all year long, and they were not good days for Sam. They play three more games against excellent defensive teams and the Jets, the Niners, and Cowboys. It is possible, since Sam is the focus the rest of the way, that he doesn't really play well at all. And we have even a different opinion because, like, I know we're going along here and you've got to run. But I've said multiple times over the last couple of weeks that if I told you before the Cardinals game that Sam Hal after 13 games was going to lead the league in interceptions, lead the league in sacks aloud, be 21st in QBR, 23rd and passer rating, you would say without even with no hesitation, well, of course we're looking for a new quarterback in 2024.

But it's that we've watched him play. And we've seen a lot of good to go along with the bad, which has kept everybody in, which has kept him in the mix. But, you know, four more games, we might feel either more encouraged or perhaps more discouraged. Who knows? Right. And I think just the last thing for me on that would be that it's not, that's why I said it's about process more than results for him. Like, how are you getting to this decision? Right.

And what are you showing for that? It's not just about like, oh, you scored 30 points or you scored 20. It's about how are you arriving at you? How are you handling the pressure that's now coming in the pocket? Are you making certain decisions, and even if it's throwing it away or something like that? So how are you doing that? But the other thing I think that really would matter to me as well. Like you can look at and say, well, and someone else can say, well, listen,

my scheme's going to do this for him. And like you watch what Mike McDaniel has done for Tua. Like, that scheme is really helping out. Two executes it well, giving credit. That scheme really takes advantage of all that. So I think if you're another coach, you're going to look at it that way, too. Like, how would he fit in my game? Forget just like, oh, he threw his interception here because the guy knew it was coming or whatever.

I think that's one thing. And then the last thing on it, too, would be, oh, excuse me. Oh, some of the other qualities that he's shown. Like, it's been a tough situation. The kid has never buckled. He's never flinched. He's never broken. He's never been broken. Like, you look at what, and someone else pointed this out to me,

look at Zach Wilson in New York. It seems like it's up a roller coaster with him every week about him. And, you know, where you don't feel like Powell's ever come close to imploding or handling it poorly. He's really handled it well. I think there's all those qualities that allow him to handle it well, I think give him a shot to be a pretty good quarterback in the future. No doubt. And, you know, if he has a couple more 300-plus-yard days, he's going to be well beyond 4,000 yards for the season,

and he's going to be, in terms of passing yardage, top three or four all-time in franchise history. So, but I think you make the most important point, and that is the football people are going to look at him in the process, and is he progressing on things that perhaps have resulted in play? that have gone badly. And then to your point as well, the new coach and the new system, is he like a fit for what they want to do or is somebody else a better fit? We'll see. Great job.

I know you've got to run. I appreciate it as always. Thanks, Kevin. Always enjoy it. All right, John, perfect. Go. Kirk, thanks, man. I just got a call, too.

So that's perfect. Thank you. All right, see you. Thanks. See you. Three, two, one. All right, three, two, one. John Kime, everybody.

That's it for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.