The Kevin Sheehan Show - Commanders' Offensive Skill Ranks High

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Kevin with thoughts on the NFC East's offensive skill position groups to start. Then it's Joe Beninati/NBC Sports-Washington from Florida to preview Caps-Panthers Game 5. Former Skins' TE Logan Paulsen jumped on to talk Commanders' draft and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. That is the sound of NHL hockey. It's the sound of ESPN's coverage of NHL hockey. The Caps and Panthers tonight, 730 in a 2-2 deadlock series game 5 tonight. I will be watching it on NBC Sports, Washington,

where the great Joe Beninati and Craig Lachlan will have the call. their studio stuff, their live analysis, post-game, intermission, pre-game with Al Koken and Alan May is always great as well. Joe Beninati will be our guest here in about 15 minutes, followed by Logan Paulson. Logan's going to join us. Logan does a lot of film breakdown. He's been doing a whole hell of a lot of content on the football team with the commanders in NBC Sports, Washington did something recently with Ron Rivera that was excellent, and he'll be launching a podcast with Craig Hoffman later on this week as well. So we'll talk to Logan Paulson about the draft, about the state of the football team, et cetera. But there is a game five tonight.

It's a big one for the caps. They were not supposed to be in this series, but it's tied at two, two. The NHL playoffs, by the way, have been fabulous. There's one series that's over. Colorado got the sweep, a first round sweep in their first round series over the Predators over Nashville. Every other series is going to at least game six. You had four games last night where the series were all at 2-2. Carolina beat Boston at home to take a three-two series lead. Toronto, who hasn't won a series since 2004, took a three-two-series. lead over Tampa Bay. I actually watched some of that game. Austin Matthews is terrific for the

Maple Leafs, but that crowd was phenomenal. In Toronto, trying to win their first series since 2004. They haven't won the Cup since 67. They are hockey mad in Toronto and winning a series and having a chance to do that first in Tampa. And then if they don't get it done there with another game at home in game seven will be exciting. St. Louis took a three-time. series lead with a road win against Minnesota. And the Kings last night in overtime, 5-4 in Edmonton, took a 3-2 series lead in that one. And tonight you have two more series that are deadlocked at two games apiece.

Caps, Panthers, Stars, Flames. The penguins can put the Rangers out of their misery. They're up 3-1. They can finish off New York in the garden. tonight. Again, much more on game five coming up. I do have one quick stat for you, though, on game fives. Best of seven series that are tied at 2-2, the winner of game five, is 219 and 58 in terms of going on to win the series. That's a 79% series victory rate. However, the Caps last two game fives, when the series has been deadlocked at two games apiece. The team that won game five did not win the

series. The last game five, the Caps played in a two-two series was against Carolina as the defending champs the year after their Stanley Cup season in the 2019 postseason. They won game five, six nothing over Carolina, but lost the next two, lost that Carolina in game six, and then lost in a double overtime affair in game seven at home four to three. The year before, the year they won the cup, they were down three games to two to Tampa Bay. And they ended up winning games six and games seven. So of those 58 teams to have won the series after dropping game five, the caps have been involved in two of those. Big game tonight.

exciting hockey in the playoffs when you get to a game five or a game seven. The atmospheres are phenomenal in almost all of these NHL cities. I will mention since I've been talking about hockey here for a few minutes to start the podcast that the NBA playoffs have been dreadful, really. There have just been too many blowouts and there were two more last night. The heat blew out the Sixers who looked dead from the jump. Jimmy Butler is outstanding. He's my favorite player right now in the postseason. Kauai Leonard would be my favorite player. Kauai Leonard, I think, is my favorite current player in all of sports.

No, it's not Kirk Cousins. I like Kirk Cousins a lot, and I root for Kirk Cousins, as you know. But Kauai Leonard is my favorite all-around player in sports. And, you know, he tore his ACL last year in the postseason and was not back in time to get the clippers into the postseason other than the playing round. But he'll be back next year. But Jimmy Butler's way up there on my list as well. And he's been dominant in this series. And the Sixers looked dead last night. No excuse for a 2-2 game five to come out with that kind of effort. They got outscored by 20 in the fourth quarter, lost by 35 points in a game five. And then last night, I didn't stay up to watch it, but it was close in the first half between the Mavs and Sons in game five,

and the Sons pulled away out scoring Dallas in the second half, 61 to 34, and they won by 30. We've had a lot of those games. We've had very few memorable games so far in a round and a half of the NBA playoffs. I think really the games that were most memorable were the first two or three. in what ended up being a sweep series, and that was Boston Brooklyn Round 1. The Boston Brooklyn Net Series, the first two games were so intense. Boston ended up sweeping that series. We've got competitive series for sure, but we have not had great games so far.

Maybe the best is yet to come on that. I wanted to mention the NFL first of all announced another game. The Cowboys will go to Lambo in week 10 for a Sunday afternoon, November 13th, 425 p.m. kickoff. I'm not sure why the NFL in announcing games as they've been doing. We got the Christmas afternoon game between the Broncos and the Rams announced yesterday. We've had the international games announced. We had the two, the double header, which really isn't a true double header, but the staggered start time Monday night week two matchups of Buffalo in Tennessee and then Minnesota

and Philadelphia announced. And I think what we're just going to get here leading into the actual show tomorrow night and the release of the schedule tomorrow night and all the programming around it is just a couple more games. We might get another, we might get a Thanksgiving Day game later on today. By the time you listen to this, there may be another game or two. But I wanted to give everybody heads up on a specific site called, because many of you sent something to me yesterday, and it was a site called NFL game leaks, NFL schedule leaks. They basically created the site yesterday, and what they're firing out there as, you know, games that they say are part of the NFL schedule aren't real.

One of the games was Washington was going to play Detroit. on Thanksgiving Day at 1230, and Washington does play at Detroit this year. And that makes it a possibility. It certainly could end up being that. But no, there are a lot of sites right now on NFL scheduling, you know, leaking information that is not accurate. When you start to see stuff tomorrow from credible reporters today and tomorrow, you can believe that stuff.

these Twitter accounts or these websites, but primarily Twitter accounts that are labeled as NFL schedule leak Twitter accounts, I don't think they're right much of the time. So I wanted to finish up with this before we move on to Joe Beninotti with a preview of Game 5, Caps Panthers, and then Logan Paulson. I came across a story on Bleacher Report ranking the top 10 players in the NFC East. It's just one of these off-season lists or rankings. The number one player in the division per Bleacher Report was Zach Martin, the guard for the Cowboys, followed by Micah Parsons at two, Darius Slay at Eagles cornerback at three,

Dak Prescott at four, Cedley Lamb at five. A.J. Brown at six. John Allen, the lone commanders player in the top 10 at 7. Hassan Reddick, the Eagles' outside linebacker slash defensive end at 8. Leonard Williams, the Giants D. Tackle at 9. And Jordan Malata, the Eagles' big tackle at 10. On the others receiving votes, Lane Johnson, Devante Smith, Jason, Jason Kelsey.

I mean, the Eagles do have a very good offensive line if it's healthy. Terry McClure was on the list. Montez Sweat was on the honorable mention list. DeMarcus Lawrence, he would have been potentially in my top 10, Trayvon Diggs, Sequin, Barclay and Andrew Thomas. I'm not here, and I didn't bring this up to debate this list. I will mention one thing. If Chase Young isn't on a top 10 list of the best players in the division

before the 2023 season, then we start to consider whether or not taking him at number two overall was the right thing to do in 2020. But I think he will be. The signs are that he will be healthy, ready for training camp, and ready to go. I think that he and others that weren't adhering to the scheme that weren't necessarily the most coachable last year. I think last year was a bit of a wake-up call. And I think Chase Young's too smart and too hard of a worker and too talented not to bounce back with a big year. I expect him to be on this list next year. Again, that's not why I brought him. I brought him. I up this list. Why I brought up this list was this. If you take out Dak Prescott, there are only two

offensive skill position players on the list, CD Lamb at 5 and A.J. Brown at 6. First of all, AJ Brown is the best receiver in the division, not C.D. Lamb. A.J. Brown is the best receiver in the NFC East. This was the most significant acquisition in this offseason, other than Carson Wents' acquisition because if he plays well, he will have a significant influence over the division results. But A.J. Brown is a top 10 receiver in the NFL. C.D. Lamb isn't. Terry McClorn might be my number two receiver in the division. And A.J. Brown, you can debate me on A.J. Brown, Terry McClorn all you want. I would take A.J. Brown. And it's not to diminish Terry. I think Terry's, as I've mentioned, you know, for a while now, you know, between 12. and 15 somewhere in that range.

AJ Brown's top 8 to top 10 in the league. He's that good. But just two skill position players on offense. And so that got me to thinking about skill position units offensively in the division. If you take the quarterback out of consideration, who's got the best skill position group in the division? Well, it's not the Giants with, you know, a guy that never plays in Saquan Barclay and Kenny Ghaladay and Shepard and, you know, Slayton and Cadarius Tony. Their tight end is right now.

Their tight end is Ricky Seals Jones. He's their starting tight end right now. It's not the Giants. I don't think that it's Dallas after losing Amari Cooper and having, you know, Gallop off the injury be a bit of a question mark. You know, you've got Zika and Pollard in the backfield. You've got Dalton Schultz at tight end. Come on.

You do have C.D. Lamb, and you do have Gallup, you know, if he's healthy. They added James Washington to the list. You know, the Cowboys offensively, obviously, are probably in the best position at the most important position quarterback. But they don't have anywhere near the supporting cast for Prescott. that they had last year. I think the Cowboys' skill position group is less than Washington's. I do.

You know, last year you had, you know, you had Cooper, you had Lamb, you had Cedric Wilson, you know, along with Gallup, et cetera. You've got Gallup back. You do have him back, but you've lost Cooper. and you've lost Cedric Wilson. So I just don't see the Cowboys' overall supporting group with Prescott as being better than Washington's. Washington has Terry McLaren,

Jahan Dotson, Curtis Samuel, Diami Brown, Logan Thomas, Antonio Gibson, J.D. McKissick, And potentially Brian Robinson Jr. as a contributor, you know, Cole Turner is a contributor. We won't count them at this point. You know, I'll mention Cam Sims as well, but McCorn, Dotson, Samuel, Thomas, Gibson, McKissick, Brown. It's right there with Philadelphia. I would still give Philadelphia a slight advantage, but not by much. And if Dotson and Samuel and Thomas,

are all healthy, and Diami Brown proves out to be what they thought he was. It could be Washington's skill group that by the midpoint of the season is the clear-cut best in the NFC East. The Eagles obviously have, I think, the best receiver in the division in A.J. Brown. I think they've got the best tight end in the division, but I think Goddart and Logan Thomas, if Logan comes back healthy, close. They have Devante Smith. Devante Smith could eventually be the best receiver in the division.

You know, he had a very good rookie year. I'm a big fan of Devante Smith. They added Zach Pascall from Indy. You've got Jalen Rager, who's been a major disappointment. And then in the backfield, you've got Miles Sanders, and Kenneth Gainwell was very versatile for them, as was Boston Scott. I would put Philadelphia as a slight nod, skill position group minus quarterbacks over Washington,

and then Dallas is third and the Giants are dead last. Washington right now, I think you can be very optimistic about the weaponry that they have around Carson Wentz. It's got to be healthy. We understand that. But I think Washington's skilled position offensive players are a close second to Phillies and at some point during the season might exceed Philadelphia's. I think Philadelphia's roster overall is better. And I think they're right there with Dallas, because Dallas has the quarterback, as co-division favorites. But just talking about skill position players on offense minus quarterbacks, Washington has a really good group.

I think most of you know that. It's not a revelation. But I think that, you know, you start comparing it in the division, and it holds up pretty well. Joe Beninotti next on game four between the Caps and the Panthers, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Come to Panthers. Kick save made by Cantanthor for Hage. Scores.

Border for Hagee wins game four in overtime for the Florida Panthers. That was a tough finish in overtime, and a game really the Capitals had a great chance to win up two to one with just over two minutes to go in regulation. They could have taken a 3-1 commanding series lead. They didn't. The series is deadlocked at two games apiece, and tonight is Game 5 back in Florida,

and there to call it is the great Joe Beninotti, who joins us right now on the podcast. Joe, of course, with Craig Lachlan, will be on the call tonight for NBC Sports Washington. Obviously, I want to talk about Game 5 and have you help preview game five. But just how big of a blow was it to this team to be so close to a 3-1 commanding series lead

and not get it done the other night? It's going to test your mental toughness, Kevin, but this is a team that has a lot of playoff experience. One of the advantages they have over Florida is the experience factor. So if this was a young team on the rise, that had a chance to take command in a series three games to one and missed it by about six inches in game four. I might be a little bit more concerned, but I get the feeling that this is a veteran group that knows how to park those situations. Do they feel badly?

Do they think that that was a missed opportunity? Sure, it was there. They had them, and they let them wriggle off the hook, and now it's a short series. Now it's the best of three. You've lost the home ice advantage back, but you've been a terrific road team all season long, You have to come in here with confidence. You can't let that loss in game four beat you again in game five. Who has been the better team, Joe?

We know it's a 2-2 series. It's even up heading for a crucial game five tonight. But there have been 12 periods played in this series. Who's been the better team for the majority of the time? The Capitals. And it was seven of the first nine periods in the series. I think if you broke it down incrementally like that, you'd find people who would be hard-pressed to argue with you.

Now, I thought Florida played a much more disciplined game in game four. I think that that was definitely their best showing of the series, but Kevin, they've got a whole lot more left in the tank. That's what concerns me more than anything, is that Florida hasn't been Florida yet. That would worry me if I were a Caps fan more than anything, is that the Panthers have so much more potential to give. Now, how are they dealing with the expectations?

Are they nervous? Are they nervy? You know, those expectations are sky high for them and should be off of a brilliant season and a little playoff mentoring that they received last year from the Stanley Cup champs with Tampa. They gave Tampa Bay a terrific series. A lot of people expected, Kevin, this series would be over.

This Caps Panthers series would have been over tonight or sooner. Most of the experts said five or less. So are they feeling nerves? Because if you're the caps, I think you can swing for the fences. Nobody expected you to be here in this situation level at 2-2. When you say swing for the fences, though, swinging for the fences for them is playing a very disciplined game, where, as you described to me prior to game one, Florida is a great fast-break team in basketball parlance, but not so good in the half court.

They did a phenomenal job of that in game one and in game three. for moments in other games as well. So swinging for the fences is not letting it all loose. It's being super disciplined, right? Correct. Maybe a bad analogy on my part. Because if you're right. Yeah, no, no, no.

You're exactly right. If you try to trade chances with these guys, and again, Washington has a lot of offensive input too. They're no slouch offensively. But they may not have the same speed collectively, team speed that Florida has. I think most people would tell you Florida is faster than Washington. If you try to get into a track meet, if you try to get into a running gun,

if you try and get into the Lakers Showtime, fast break, let's hammer it up. With them, that's silly. The only way you beat them is the way you did it in game one especially, and game three to a degree where you have to make things troublesome for them in the neutral zone. So they want to run. They want to skate. They want to, from between the blue lines to blue lines, Kevin, they want this to be, you know, funny car. Just go full all out.

They're a great offensive team in hockey parlance off the rush. The capitals haven't given them a lot of rush opportunities. Knock on wood, the capitals haven't given them a ton of three on twos, two on ones, odd man breaks. That's where Florida destroys you. And that doesn't happen if it's your mindset that, okay, we can't go willy-nilly all offense at one. end for our team, we have to concentrate on being 1-3-1 or 1-4 across the blue line to frustrate them. Make Florida dump it in.

Florida wants to possess the puck. If you're Washington, you want them to give it up and have to chase for it again. If you let them get the zone under control, then all of their pretty passing plays and great skating and shooting and finishing ability comes to the forefront. If you make them dumping in, you know, you're the heavier team. You're going to be better on the boards, I think, than they will be.

they shouldn't want to play a board game with Washington. And you have to try to turn it into that tonight. Joe, why have the caps been perfect on the penalty kill in this series? Incredible hustle, hard work, timely goal-tending from both Vannecheck and Samsonoff, and specifically, I'll name three or four guys. Nick Jensen, awesome. Trevor Van Riemzdyke, incredible on the penalty kill, blocking so. many shots. Lars Eller up front. John Carlson, who gets so much notoriety for his offense,

John's been getting a lot of PK time. Penal killing Kevin is all hard work, hustle, and willpower. And 13 for 13 is remarkable, especially against a team like Florida, with all the guns they possess. But you can't get into this mindset that you're going to shut them out on the power play for the series. You can't. They're too good. So if you think you can go out there and take four or five or six penalties, that's playing with fire. Please, please don't do that tonight. I would hope that they can keep the short-ended situations, Washington, that is, to three or less. I'm comfortable with that. If you start getting to four, five, and six, these guys are bound to erupt and all of a sudden, well, Florida is three for six on the power play and the game's over.

How good is Samsona been in the last two games, and are you confident that that continues? I saw him do it in game two in the relief experience that he came in. You know, that game was over and done with, and Florida came out with 17 shots in the third period of game two. Sammy comes in in a mop-up role and played very well. And he's comfortable. He's been in this rink quite a bit. He's had some big games in this rink. So there must be something that he likes about FLA Live Arena.

but then to go home and do what he did, that's exactly what you want from him. That's a confidence builder, not only for the team, but especially for the goalie between his ears. He has the ability. It's the mental makeup and mindset. Does he have that confidence?

And he gets it with a game three performance that he turned in. Caps don't win that game. I know it's lopsided. It was 6-1, right? So I know it's lopsided, but the Caps don't win that game if he doesn't play beautifully in the second period. When it was a 1-1 game,

2-0 kind of game, game, that kind of situation. He was terrific against Florida. He made a save against Barkoff seconds before Johansson scores to take control. He doesn't make that save. We might not be having this conversation. I thought he was tip-top in game three.

Game four, solid. Again, I wish I could watch that replay of the overtime winner with him and with Scott Murray, the Caps goalie coach, because the rebound was a little lengthy and you hate to see that at that time. but with both of these goalies, with both Vanacheck and Samsonoff, Kev,

rebound control is an issue. Locker talks about freeze rate. If pucks are hitting Samsonoff tonight, he's able to freeze them, not give up rebounds, gladly take face-offs. Again, that frustrates and doesn't fuel Florida's offense. A couple more for Joe Beninotti joining us here on the podcast. What do you think the chances of Tom Wilson playing tonight are? Yeah, it's another great question.

and I know all I can tell you, Kevin, is that he's on the plane. I know he was on the plane with me yesterday. I keep hearing day to day, and there must be great care taken with Tom. He's an incredibly valuable asset. If his lower body injury is something that is not going to allow him to help, obviously he's not going to be 100 percent, but can he be himself? If he can't be himself with this injury, why are you playing him?

If there's any chance of him exacerbating the injury, doing something that's going to aggravate it, Again, he's too valuable. I firmly believe he's a future captain for this team. You don't want to put anything that would be a career-threatening kind of thing. And I'm not saying it's that. I don't particularly know what the injury is. I can tell you that he's with the team, and that doesn't surprise me because the guys gravitate to this guy.

He's a leader. He's a natural-born leader. The players love him, and they wish he could be out there. And we talk about penalty killing at 13 for 13, and he may be one of their best penalties. They're doing all that without him. They're in a two-two series with Florida without Tom Wilson. Nobody would have said that. All right.

You talked about this with me on radio before the series started, that you've got a team that hasn't won a series in forever, not a lot of playoff experience versus a very experienced team. When you get to game five and you've already played four games, does that long-time playoff experience that the Caps have mean as much? Well, if you're Florida, you're sitting there going, guys, we pull the rabbit out of our hat in game four. So I could put this mental gymnastics with you about the game four thing both ways, right? The caps have to park it, forget about it.

I know it's human nature to sit there and go, cheese, we could have come to Florida 3-1 with a chance to put these guys away. Florida on the other side is going to go, hey, we got away with one. We pulled the rabbit out of our hat. We're the best home ice team in the league this season. Let's show these guys. Let's blast them in game five and make them sit there and go, ooh, oh, that's the real Florida. I really expect the first 10 minutes tonight

for the Panthers to come flying out of the gates. If the caps can frustrate them, slow them down, that's what needs to be done, because Florida, I think, is going to really go for the throat early in this game five to make you sort of doubt yourself. But they escaped game four. To do what they did, you know, that's that wonderful world of analytics,

the early pull, right? Andrew Brunette pulled a goalie with 309, left. Right. You know, in Lockers Day, that would have been, you wouldn't have done that maybe a minute left. And the analytics say the more you do it, the earlier you do it, the more often you convert. Yeah, they dodged the bullet, Hathaway missed by less than a half a foot. But it worked for them. So now they've got to sit there and go, fellas, home ice, where we are number one, let's show these guys and let's prove to them that we're going to put our fingers on them. I just, I think Washington will sit there and say, we've been there before, we've seen

this before. It's now best out of three. Let's go back and we have to get one in Florida, and tonight's the one to get. I listen to you intently when I have you on, and I heard you say this the other night when they pulled the goaltender early that this was an analytics move. And you just said that the analytics have proven over time that the earlier you pull the goaltender, the better you have of evening the score. Obviously, you know, the more time is the obvious part of that. You know, you're not pulling them with a minute. you're pulling them with three minutes, which means more opportunity. But I guess the analytics say that the empty-netter opportunity just isn't that great

compared to the benefit of having more time to even things out. It's so interesting, Kevin, because again, I'll play both sides of the fence. When Peter Labia let has his team on top by a goal, latent regulation, he advises everybody on the ice to take a pot shot at the open goal. He's not worried about icing. He wants everybody to take a shot at the cage. So Garnett Hathaway was behaving the way his coach wanted to take that shot. Now he had to thread it through a defender, which he did beautifully,

and it just drifted wide, but there's no scolding of Hathaway. It's not like Hath made a mistake there. And you've seen it. We've seen it throughout the season. You know, a lot of the times in the regular season, Alex Havichkins out there late in the game, because of his uncanny knack for shooting pucks over 100 feet at empty goals. He never misses practically. They want to take those shots.

Now, the more you have a six-on-five advantage and you have the offensive capabilities of Florida, I want that time. I'm going to wear you down. And instead of only having six-on-five for a minute where I may only get one or two quality-scoring chances, the thought process analytically is if you give me three minutes and all those weapons, I'm going to get four, five, or six good chances, and wouldn't you know it, damn it, Reinhardt converts one. That's just the way it works.

I can see it. I understand it. A lot of the times the game does end with an empty netter earlier than you might expect, but I'll bet you it makes sense for those who analyze it and for those who break down all these numbers. There's a reason why coaches are pulling the goalies this early. I've seen it with four minutes left. It's amazing to me because I've been around the game a long time, and they never would have done that 15, 20 years ago.

It would have been barely a minute. All right, let's try it. Now they're doing it with three, four minutes to go. All right. Last one for Joe Beninotti. You already mentioned, and you've mentioned this to me in the past. You know, 2-2, game fives, you know, 3-3 game sevens, just weathering that early storm when you're the road team.

Do you see the caps with their experience being able to do it and just what's your lean on tonight's game? I know they're going to play well in front of Samsona. And I know that Ilya wants to play well and be consistent now what would be three games in a period in a row. And if he does that, that's a great sign for his development. It's not all about Elia, but if Elia can deliver that kind of performance for the remainder of this series, how long it goes,

then you're building up confidence not only in the player, but in the teammates around him. Yes, I'm confident that they can do it. It's just I know that I haven't seen Florida at its best yet. I haven't seen the way that looks now. Is that part and parcel to the way that caps have been playing that, but I haven't seen it? Because once you do see it, you will recognize it. And it can be overwhelming.

Now, I don't know if you can get away with that in the Stanley Cup playoffs, the way the caps are playing. And oh, by the way, everybody said it. Andrew Burnett looked at everybody in the face and said that capitals are not your normal garden variety eight seed. Well, he was right. Yeah. And this has turned out to be a much longer series than people anticipated. Can they do it?

Yes. Will they be able to withstand that first period? I sure hope so. Stay out of the penalty box, play at a five-on-five game, and you've been the better five-on-five team. You asked me who's had the better of the play over the, what is it, 12-plus periods. You've been the better five-on-five-teen. Stay that way, and just hope the officials cooperate.

I'm sure you know this because you always have the game notes in front of you, and you probably create a lot of them. But 219 and 58 is the record for the game five winner to go on and win the series. That's a 79% series victory rate for the winner of game five in the history of the Stanley Cup playoffs. But the Caps last 2-2

game fives, they beat Carolina, lost the series, they lost to Tampa Bay and won the series. So that's the last two series. They've been in 2-2 game fives. They've got a big one tonight. Enjoy the call. We'll all be

watching. Thanks for doing this. I know you were time-crunched. always appreciate it. Yeah, no, thanks. I always enjoy chatting with you, Kevin. Let's do it again soon. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It doesn't cost you a thing.

Rate us and review us anywhere you're able to do that. You are able to do that on Apple and Spotify. On Apple, you're able to rate and review. Five stars would be great. We've got an average of 4.8 stars with, you know, approaching 4,000 ratings, which is really good. It is also, as I've mentioned before, just a fraction of the overall average audience that listens to the podcast. So many of you haven't done it yet.

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no less than a half dozen people. It's Lancaster, not Lancaster. So I do appreciate that. That is in connection with the ad that I've done for trade coffee, where they sent me, based on my coffee preferences, coffee from an independent brewer in Lancaster, PA, and the coffee was really good. So anyway, thanks for that.

Joining us now on the podcast is Logan Paulson. Of course, Logan played for the skins for a few years, played in various places in the NFL. And now is an outstanding broadcaster with NBC Sports Washington. He's doing work with the team. And he and Craig Hoffman are about to debut a podcast together, which will launch later on this week. And that podcast will be one in which you can get anywhere you get a podcast. It'll be part of the Odyssey family of podcasts. So look for that.

I want to talk about the draft. I do. And I want to talk about sort of the state of the team. And with that in mind, I want to start with this. It's my opinion that the draft, you know, we spend so many weeks preparing for it and discussing it and so many days analyzing it after the fact. But typically, Logan, you know, the draft for that particular

year isn't significantly influential on the upcoming season. It just isn't. Most players aren't ready to contribute, and most players that do don't contribute a lot. There are obviously, you know, exceptions to the rule, but the bigger picture is still what, you know, a team currently has on its roster or had on its roster prior to the draft in terms of evaluating the upcoming season. So I'll start with this. A, do you agree with that, that the draft is kind of kind of outsized in the importance it's given with respect to the upcoming season. And B, what kind of season do you think Washington's going to have, especially as it relates to the NFC East?

Yeah, so I think you brought up a really good point there, because you're right. Usually with draft picks specifically, it takes a little bit of time for them to develop to get kind of that high upside potential that he's often talked about with these guys. I will say this year, though, I think this is probably an intentional decision by this coaching staff. They picked guys that have a very clear role and pass to playing and being contributors this year to this football team. And now what is the level of that contribution? You know, you look at Jahan Dotsett, for example, I think he'll be in there third, maybe second

wide receiver. You've got three kind of similar body types, all guys that they play potential. Federian Mathis, I think it's going to be a huge contributor on a defensive line this year. If he plays the way he did at Alabama, obviously Brian Robinson, kind of that rotational power back, the spell gives them gets hurt. I think all of those guys, and even Butler out of, like Louisiana, he's from Louisiana. But all those guys have a very clear

path. He's playing between 45 and 50% of the snaps kind of right at the gate. And I think that's a very conscious decision for Mon Rivera. You found guys that had a lot of college playing experience, guys who are captains, leaders on their team, guys who love football, guys who don't necessarily

have the highest ceiling in the world, but guys who are going to project really well, as kind of solid NFL starters in their first year, which I think is something that's really important. And I think that's, again, kind of showing the mindset of the organization in terms of things that need to get accomplished this year, right? I think everyone kind of knows that there's a little bit of pressure. It's wronged third year.

Hot-seat's kind of warming up a little bit. You've made this big move for when you need to get guys who are ready to go right now. And so that's not always the case. I think, you know, last year's draft with Damon Davis, the year before that with AGG guys. they kind of were looking for more high upside type of players that seems to have shifted a little bit this year to guys who are going to help come in and help out a lot right now. Yeah, I think you and I are both on the same page as far as that's concerned. I think that was obvious. And I think it's because they believe that they are close to something. You know, Ron Rivera spent a lot of time talking about the four-game win streak before the COVID outbreak and what December and early January may have turned out to be.

had they not had the COVID issues and had to start Garrett Gilbert on a Tuesday night and then play, you know, five nights later in Dallas, et cetera. They think that they are close. I think maybe to contention in the NFC East, worst case a wildcard team next year in the NFC East. Where would you rank them right now? Yeah, I think that's a really tough question. And I think when you look at the team specifically Philadelphia, they've gotten significantly better this offseason. You know, their draft I thought was outstanding.

They made that tremendous move for AJ Brown, and all of a sudden that offense looks completely different, having a true number one X-wide receiver. And you can say what you want about Jalen Hertz, but he's got a lot of shiny toys to play with. They've got an excellent offensive line. They're bringing in Jordan Davis, I think was a really genius move by them because it fits.

He's got a mentor there in Fletcher Cox. So, yeah, I think that team has gotten a lot better. I think Dallas has kind of maybe just treaded water. You know, they've lost a guy who I had a lot of respect for in terms of how he played the game. last year and what he contributed to that defense and Randy Gregory. I think that loss is going to be really really significant. They've tried to

replace that with a rookie pass rusher with high upside from I think North Carolina, South Carolina, something like that. But again, I think that's something that is, again, when you look at like kind of how is he going to play this year, what's his contribution going to be, it's not going to be Randy Gregory. And so

one of the things that made that defense so deadly is it covered up a lot of the back end ails for that defense. Obviously, you lost a couple wide receivers, big playmakers from that offense. I think they've kind of maybe taken a step back. And then the New York Giants, I think, are slowly kind of quietly, maybe even progressing in a nice way. They've made some really nice upgrades, obviously, on the offensive line.

And those are really big issues for them. So I do think when you look at them, I think it's probably the biggest issue, biggest improvement area for them, with the fact they changed their head coach. They brought the guy in from Buffalo. So I actually think that, you know, Ron saying all that stuff, I think is a little optimistic. I think if there's one thing to turn to,

to if you're a commander's fan is Carson Wentz. And you're saying you're actually going to get starting caliber quarterback play this year. And, you know, he might not be top 15. He might not even be top 20, but it's going to be significantly better than what it's been over the last three or four years. And I think that's not a fight against Piney. He's a top-end backup. He won you some games.

That's a positive for him. But I think it really, the whole season, I want to say, rests on Carson-Wen's development in this offense, how Scott Turner can nurture. and foster him because if he plays well, and like I said, he doesn't even need to play in top 10 caliber, top 15 caliber play. If he just plays well, it's obviously going to be significantly better. And as a result, the defense, especially if everything, everything will follow suit. So I think to me, that's kind of the biggest issue because I think the other teams have gotten a lot better. But, you know, obviously you've upgraded the most important position

in football with Carson Wentz. What does that upgrade do for the rest of the team? So I'm guessing based on what you just described. without actually picking the order that you like Philly in the division. Oh, yeah, sorry, I should have picked the division. Yeah, so I should have Philly, and then I would say it's really close right now between Dallas and Washington.

And, again, that depends a lot of the quarterback play, and I think New York is the fourth. But I will say that I think in New York is, again, I think they've made some quiet moves, and I think they had a lot of injuries last year, and I think they're a team that's very similar to Washington, that they come out of this running in a nice way. They have a, I don't want to say they have a good roster, but it's a solid roster.

And then I've always liked Daniel Jones's upside. And I just think about what their new head coach did with Josh Allen up in Buffalo and how he was able to kind of make that resurgence for them. And so I say, well, maybe you get an upgrade again from Daniel Jones. They put some pieces around him now. They're insulating him from a past protection standpoint. I love the side. I love the Evan Neal drastic having him opposite Andrews on the other side.

And what that does kind of having those bookends for a guy with us. a lot of fumbling issues in the pocket, just shore that thing up for them. So, again, I think they're the worst team right now, but I wouldn't be surprised that they came out looking much, much crisper than they did last year. I agree with that. I thought they were going to be better last year, and they were banged up again for the second straight year. I do wonder what Brian Dable thinks of Daniel Jones,

given that they didn't pick up the fifth-year option, and they signed Tyrod Taylor. It almost feels like a tug-of-war early on between maybe the coaching staff and John Mara. But we'll see. Back to Philly for a moment. I didn't intend on talking about the division this much. But I like Jalen Hertz. I think there's a cool and calm playmaking ability.

And I keep seeing a guy that's getting better. He had a terrible playoff game against Tampa Bay. But as part of that rush attack that led them into the postseason, he was a big part of that as a dual threat quarterback. I think he's got a chance to be their guy, and he's going to be this year. But for the future, what do you think? Yeah, I do. I mean, I really like what he brings.

I think the value out there is that he's a good runner. He's a serviceable runner. He's a runner that you can build around, and I think everyone saw kind of the influx in offensive production that just that element brings at the quarterback position. I mean, that's why people are talking about Leelie Kulis, potentially big a first round pick, not because he sees the field at a really high level. But because you add 800, 900,000 yards on the ground, and it opens up the running lanes for your back,

so then you end up with, you know, 25-hundred yards rushing on the ground. I think that's a significant upgrade. So that's what he brings just as a starting kind of high-floor element to his game. I think he throws the football well. I really think he struggles with anticipating throws. And unless he gets that fixed, like that's one of the, like, those big Achilles heels for quarterbacks, especially young quarterbacks coming out of college,

is they have a hard time anticipating, and it really stymies your downfield passing game. But now you've got guys like, I don't know, like they're always kind of open. You don't need to be anticipating a lot. You kind of work the deep half of the field, which I think he does a nice job of. So I think, and again,

you're going to see kind of very simple coverage shells because of the running game. And so if you can kind of develop that element of his game, there's no reason why he couldn't be their guy moving forward. They've said that this is kind of his one-year tryout to see. They've got accrued all this guy. draft capital for 2023. If they need to move up for a quarterback,

they probably would be able to. But they want to see if you can do it, because if they can, then they can use that draft capital elsewhere in 2023 and moving forward for that franchise. I'll tell you what, it's a good roster. And if it's healthier on defense this year, look out because Graham will be back and Cox is still there and Barnett's still there.

And, you know, they added Reddick and they've got Slay and I'm forgetting who else they have there. But they've got plenty of talent. on that team. All right, I want to get your thoughts on the draft. Do you like Jahan Dotson as a player? And then did you like him at 16 overall? Yeah, so I actually, I'm trying to remember my exact rankings, but essentially it went Wilson, William, yeah, Wilson Williams, Drake London, and then I had Jahan over Alave. And it was close there. I think, you know, kind of depending on your flavor and what you like at the position. Like I come from a very specific receiver tree.

with Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan. I played in a version of that offense, pretty much for my whole career. And they value a very specific type of receiver, a guy that has good physicality, catches the football well, high route running nuance to their game because they're asked to run a lot of different routes. So I saw all those things with him, and I thought, I like this guy. I like how he attacks the football in the air. He plays like a much bigger man, which is always exciting to watch.

So, yeah, I really like him. I liked him quite a bit. I thought he'd go probably 20 to 23 in my mock draft. I think I had him going 22 to Green Bay, if I remember correctly. But, again, like, there was a little bit of a run-arm receivers, and I don't think you can just look at the value in the day. So I like Johanna at 16. I like Johanna at 16 plus the two extra draft picks

because they desperately needed those two extra draft fix this year. They had a lot of kind of holes and rotational pieces they need to fill. I think you've got a guy in Butler who can play the post. safety, who can play in the box, who can be that Buffalo nickel, or you can kind of get him in the half and let Sam Curl play the Buffalo Nickel, which gives you great flexibility in the back end of your defense, which is something that I think Jack Del Rio wants. And again, adding Brian

Robinson with that late third pick, I think is a nice luxury piece. It's something that they definitely needed to address, given Gibson's injury history. So I look at him and say, oh, you got Johan Johnson, but you also got Brian Robinson and you also got Butler. And I think those two ads in conjunction make the value worth it, even though it was probably slightly a reach for Jahan at 16.

Cooley said last week on the podcast that Jahan Dotson, you know, after watching a lot of tape of him and I know you did as well, he said Jehan Dotson's going to dictate coverage. He said, I don't think they've had a guy like that since Dishon. He wasn't saying that he was Dishon, but he just said he's going to dictate coverage. And I said, well, doesn't Terry do that and he said, no, most teams think they can cover Terry with one guy. Do you agree with that?

I do agree with that. I think, you know, I have a ton of respect for Terry, like not only him as a player, like the physicality, he brings the mindset, the professionalism, the study. But I do think he is, and I've talked to guys that play the position, and this is a reservation I've had about him for a while. He's not the most nuanced route runner. He kind of tries really hard all the time. And when you watch elite route runners, they're able to change velocity in the route. They're able to change direction. They're able to kind of set up and stem in a very high-level way. And I think Terry has a lot of horsepower to his game in terms of 40 vertical jump.

And again, the physicality, which is nice to have. But in terms of a guy who's going to line up across your number one receiver and you know he's going to win, I'm not sure he's that level of football player. And that's not an indictment of him because there's a lot of guys like that. but I do think that adding a piece like Jahan, a guy who's got a little bit more route-running acumen kind of coming out of college. I think its hands coordination are a little bit better than Terry would be.

Obviously, he's got to grow and prove that at the next level of football. But I think the thing that he really does well is use his route stems at a fantastically high level for a guy who's a college football player. You know, and I think, you know, I talked to Coach Ron Rivera. I did a video breakdown, which I'll get up on my Instagram, Logan underscore Paulson, 82, hopefully the next couple days. And Ron talked about that kind of ad nauseum.

And that's something I saw a lot on film, too. So, yeah, I do think Terry is an excellent football player, but I think there are some limitations to his game. I think adding his teeth into Han, Curtis Samuel's getting healthy. I think that's just going to help Terry's production. I think it's going to make this offense much more dynamic. And I think the most important thing about this signing is it gives Carson Went more weapons.

And when you look at when Carson once it's successful, when he's been successful, he's got a lot of people to throw to and very effective pass blocking offensive lines. So hopefully they can get both those things done. I think Johan is kind of a step in that direction. All right. Forget about where he got picked and whether or not it was too early. How much will Phil Mathis contribute in his rookie year? Yeah, well, Darien, you know, like, it's so funny because, like,

that's, like, the ultimate, like, draft value conversation. And, like, when you look at him and compare him to the other defensive linemen that were on the board at the time. I think he's probably the best of those guys. You know, Travis Jones probably has a higher upside, but in terms of college tape and leadership and the kind of program he's coming from is a little bit of a projection.

You know, the guy would be a Perry-on-Winfrey out of Oklahoma, right, who is kind of a one-trick pony just going to rest the pastor. And I look at the fit here for Washington, and I say to myself, Thelderian is a guy who's an unselfish football player. The regional scout said that, his college coach said that.

Ron brings that up every time you talk about Fildarian. He's an unselfish football player, and that's an element that they needed in that room, right? They needed a guy who just kind of line up and do what he's supposed to do. He has 34.5-inch arms, and he plays with great length for an interior player. So you see him being able to kind of gap and a half keep the linebackers at Alabama a little bit cleaner. Obviously, Jack Del Rio's defense is a one-gap defense, but I think having a guy who can play double teams is outstanding because it helps the development of guys like Cole Holcomb, Jamie Davis, guys who struggle to take on blocks and struggle diagnosing, it just gives them an extra beat

to say, oh, okay, now this is how I've got to fit this run. I think that's an invaluable skill set. It makes you more effective in your Cinco, your five down front, and it makes you more effective with your buffalo nickel, especially if a guy like Butler's playing it, who's slightly undersized. So I think he brings a nice rotational piece. I think he's got some pass rush upside, and I think he's the right kind of character composition of a guy who's going to get better and improve. So in terms of the pick value, the more you watch him, the more you like him, the more you see him run to the football, you see his physicality.

So I like to pick quite a bit, and I don't know if it's that big of a reach. Like I was talking to some teams around the league, and one of the teams I talked to had a first round grade on them. Now, were they going to take him in the first round? Obviously, they didn't. But I think that that's something to consider when, like, measuring draft value. And I think his athletic upside, his physical tools, in conjunction with the fit here, makes a lot of sense to me in the second round. Why did they take Brian Robinson, Jr.

in the third round to running back? I mean, you know, like, I think third round is where, in terms of guys I've spoken with around the NFL, that's where the running back value is. So if you want to take a running back, that's a good spot to do it. I think what I really think it is is you're trying to maximize a playmaker in Antonio Gibson,

and he has not maximized, in my opinion, in this scheme always. And what I mean by this is a heavy, tight zone scheme that really stresses the back, forces them to kind of, I don't want to say create a little bit, but really set up blocks, really be physical downhill. And when you have a, you know, kind of an elite athlete at the position, I think it's important to kind of find ways to get Gibson in space and make sure that he's not getting too banged up.

And the running scheme here kind of dictates you need a guy who's got a hard head and a physical running style. So I think Brian Robinson compliments what they did last year, at least a little bit more directly. And then you can kind of get Gibson in there for more specific runs where he's getting in space and using that athleticism. And it's going to be a little bit fresher throughout the year. Also, I think you have an insurance policy if Gibson continues to have a hard time holding on the football. And I think you have an insurance policy if Gibson were to get hurt, which would be the third year in a row if he would get hurt. So I think all of those things are important and critical.

and I think it's good forward-thinking philosophy with regards to making your running attack a little bit more effective, but also ensuring that you have some kind of security if Gibson were to get hurt and kind of, I think it also elevates Gibson's play as well. Do you like the player? Do you like Robinson Jr.? Or did you like other backs there?

Interesting question. I watched 15 running backs, and I thought, other guys that I watched, obviously the top guys, were awesome. Breece Hall, outstanding vision. Walker the 3rd,

I thought, was kind of the most dynamic playmaking, running back of that group. But in terms of fit for Washington, Brian Robinson was the guy that I like the best

in terms of fit. He does a really good, nice job with the tight zone stuff. He breaks a ton of arm tackles. He never lets the first guy bring him down. There are some concerns about his kind of lack of production

coming from Alabama where there's like this long history of guys being very, very protective behind like, you know, maybe the best offensive line in the country. It's slightly concerning, but in terms of his vision, how he sets up blocks, this is a running style, how he pass for tech. I really enjoyed watching his tape.

A guy that I kept coming back to because I just enjoyed watching him so much. And I don't know he's not the right fit for everybody. He's not everybody's cup of tea. But I think he fits what Washington wants to be as a running team at a nice level. And I think he's going to elevate this group. And just fill a role, like I said, to kind of come up. coming out the gate, day one. Among the backs that you watched,

did you watch Tyler Algier from BYU and if so, what did you think? I did watch Tyler Alger. I liked him a lot. Again, a little bit less refined than Brian Robinson, which I think would probably, you know, based on the things we've talked about with Ron Rivera and this year's draft specifically about finding guys from established programs.

Like I had an interview with Rod a couple weeks ago, which is up on the commander's website, where he talked about how important, in his evaluation, how important is to see guys play top-level competition. And I think this year especially that was true because they picked guys from big programs who play a lot of football and were very productive. I think there's some safety in those types of picks.

And when you watch Brian Algears, yes, he has a physical running style, converted linebacker. Nice vision, actually, for a guy who hasn't played the position a ton. and a better athlete than a lot of people think. Like, I think he's got a good opportunity to maybe start down there in Atlanta in that kind of outside zone scheme. But I think there's a little bit of a projection there in terms of his athletic skill set. Obviously, the projection is there, and you like what you see, you like the character,

you like the way he runs. It's like the mindset. And I think he adds value as a special team's player. But I do think Brian Robinson is a little, the line to the field is a little bit clearer to see. And I think that's where that's where Washington put a lot of value this year. I think that's why you go with Brian Robinson over Alger's in this situation. I just think about Gibson, Logan, is that I thought early on that he wasn't the best of zone runners and that he didn't have great feel.

But I thought he really improved on that. And I thought he was excellent as a power yards after contact runner, much better than I thought he would. I didn't know that he had that in him coming out of Memphis. The injury and the fumbling thing, yeah, those are great points, and maybe they were concerned. I just think the selection of Brian Robinson Jr. is very telling as to what they think of Gibson. And I don't know if they're right. I mean, they know him. They know the back.

I just thought he was getting better in all of the areas in which maybe he wasn't great in year one or maybe even early last year. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt that he's getting better, and I think he's this very unique player. Like, I can't think of a player who's as big as he is, Gibson, and runs as fast as he does outside of a guy like Derek Henry, which is a cool group to be in. However, he doesn't have kind of like this workhorse mentality. So I do think to maximize him having a guy in there that can take, you know, I think of Aaron Jones up in Green Bay. They've drafted A.J. Dillon at a Boston College, and I love A.J. Dillon. but he usually gets more carries in the course of a game than Aaron Jones does. And Aaron Jones gets more targets in the past game.

And I think, so when they, at the end of the season, Aaron Jones has double the touches of A.J. Dillon, but most of those have come in the past game and finding those mismatches and getting him in space and letting him use that tremendous athleticism, just keeping him pressure for it throughout the year. So I kind of envision a similar situation to that this year. I think you've got a guy in Brian Robinson who, who can, come in and spell Gibson, give him some, like keep him fresh,

is excellent in short yarder situations. He might get more touches in the run game than Gibson. However, he is also less dynamic. You know, and I think you want to just keep Gibson as dynamic as you possibly can, and this seems like an easy way to do it. It's something that I thought

they needed to do last year, but they didn't. I think this is just a nice complementary piece to Gibson's skill set. I don't think it's I don't think it's an indictment of Gibson. I think this is a way to maximize him, and I think that's ultimately what you're looking to do. And, you know, in Carolina, there was always, you know,

Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams. They always had two until they had McCaffrey. And, yeah, I mean, I think all of what you say makes sense. All right, real quickly on the rest of the picks. You've already mentioned Percy Butler a couple of times. Do you think he is the Landon Collins replacement at that size, with some of the tackling issues he had at Louisiana or not? So I think that everyone mentions the tackling issue,

but if you watch Kyle Hamilton, he also, quote-unquote, has tackling issues. Like he takes bad angles, he tackles, whatever. What I do say is when he is in the contact, Percy Butler's a phenomenal tackler. Like it's like textbook kind of tackles. I think he runs the 4-3-whatever, 4-3-5, and that shows up on tape.

And I think sometimes he's running so agrivolved. wrestling to the football that he doesn't gather necessarily. And I think that's something that is easily correctable. Like sometimes you watch a guy like a cross from Maryland, for example. When you watch him, he's taking bad angles. His feet are behind him in the tackling process. And you say, man, that's going to be a long kind of resurrection project to get him where he needs to go. Who took him? Who took Nick Cross? Because I watched a lot of Nick Cross being a Maryland guy. I forget where he went now. Oh, was it Minnesota, maybe? I forget. It was some Minnesota, Indianapolis, maybe, something like that.

Oh, it was indie. It was indie. Yeah, it was indie. Okay. All right. You know, you like his measurables, but obviously, like, the tackling issue was so glaring. Butler does not have that same issue. He's a guy who's very fundamental in his technique. I think there are some things that for sure could be cleaned up. And you mentioned Landon Collins and does he replace him there. I personally think he could. I like him in a close-the-line of scrimmage. I think he does a really nice job there.

I think he's got nice coverage instincts. I think he's an excellent blitzer because he's so fast and he's so-to-sized. when he's blitzing. I wonder about his ability, because he's not a big man to hold up over the course of a 17-game season against kind of taking on lineman

the way Landon was, but I do think he has a skill set that gets you excited about him being near the line of scrimmage because he closes to the ball so quickly he arrives so violently at the ball. I got a chance to talk to him

when he was in for his visit prior to rookie minicamp. He said he prefers playing post, but you know, you watch his take from college. He lines up all over the formation. And I think, you know, even if he does play post, you can then roll curl into the box. And again, it just gives you kind of flexible chess pieces now. And all of a sudden, Buffalo

Nickel isn't just landed. It's Cam Crowell in certain situations. It's Butler in certain situations. Maybe it's Cole Holcomb in certain situations. So I think having that positional flexibility is a big deal. And I think he's just going to add tremendous value to this roster. All right. Do you like Sam Hal as a prospect? Forget about where he's drafted. We know, you know, the first pick in the fifth round for a quarterback that, you know, was a projected top five pick two years ago and even some thought could sneak into the end of the first round in this draft two weeks ago was a possibility. Do you like the player or not? Prospect. Let me let's talk about him as a prospect. Do you like his chances to be a one day down the road NFL starter? Yeah, so I think that's always

a tough thing when you're projecting prospects, but I think he's got the things that make that projection a little bit more feasible, right? You see him on film, he's extremely competitive. Like his running style is more of that, or akin to that of a fullback. He's banging off guys. He's fighting three yards, and he's getting hit in the pocket. He's a guy you can tell

he loves football. And the competitive edge is always something that I look for when I'm watching tape. If I got the interview process, you know, find out things there. But if they're competitive, there's a good chance they're going to improve, right? They're going to fight and claw and scratch to make that happen. I think Taylor Heaney, he's a great example of

He's got that to him, and in addition to a very talented arm, right, which is something that's very, very important. I don't think he's got kind of the quick release or the anticipation skills that some of the other prospects had, which is why I wasn't as high on him. But in terms of the character and the prospect and a guy who's going to get better, I think that's a guy you feel comfortable putting money on to do that. So, yes, in terms of Sam Howe, I think maybe three years from now, you're looking at him and maybe saying, oh, you know, maybe he could start for this team or,

something like that, but he's got a long road to go. I think a lot of fans say, oh, you know, Sam Howard is going to be the starter. He's going to push cars and went. That's not the way I see it currently. And after watching rookie minicamp, I think I feel very safe in that assumption. He didn't play badly, but he's got a lot of growing to do still. And I think that's important for fans to understand. Good prospect. Got a lot of, got a lot of room to grow, though. Do you agree with everybody else that Cole Turner's a lock to make this team and contribute as a rookie? I do. I think he's probably as close to a lot as you're going to get from a fifth round pick.

I think he, you know, I got a chance to talk with him as well. Awesome guys. I think that's the other thing about this class that gets you excited. They're all football guys. They're guys that love the game that want to get better, want to improve. I think, you know, he comes in as kind of the F mismatch piece because of his size. He's a little tight in the hips, but man, he makes up with that because you've got an outstanding catch radius. And I think, you know, especially with Logan Thomas being injured, he gives you some nice flexibility. He's not the traditional in-line blocking tight end. He didn't do that at Nevada.

He kind of played basically big slot. And then they kind of isolate him in short yards and goal line situations. And he was able to win those matchups more often than not. I think he's got to get a little bit stronger. But I think there's a lot to work with in terms of the character of the guy and being able to catch the football outside his frame. I think another guy that they brought in was Hodges at Arizona State. A lot upside there too.

Converter wide receiver, 6-8, 35-inch vertical. Again, kind of that receiver mix there, and I like his tape in line. I think he might contribute, you know, as like that backup rotational Y earlier, maybe than Turner, but both have eye upside. And the kid from, they brought in the quarterback from Ohio, the Bobcat. Yeah, the big quarterback there. Yeah. Yes, but also really showed out at rookie minicamp.

Guys got a glow in their eye when they talked about that group. So all of a sudden you've got kind of three big dynamic playmakers there that you say, wow, like these guys could all of them, maybe not make the team, but they'll be around this organization for a couple years, which is exciting to have that kind of upside at that position. Yeah, the Hodges kid, because I read something about him after they signed him, he was in kind of a bad car accident, I think, which hurt sort of his draft prospects, but he's 6-8 with a 35-inch vertical. I would assume he was at some point a hell of a basketball player. certainly a basketball player.

So the last two picks, does anything stand out? Were you excited about either Paul or Holmes? I don't want to miss out if you had something to say about either one of those two. Yeah, so I think both of those guys, you know, the whole draft for Washington up until the seventh round was about finding guys who contribute right now. And then in the seventh round, I think they kind of said we're going to take our lottery picks here. And you look at a guy like Chris Paul and his athletic measurables are.

insane quite frankly. I think he ran a 489 or 4-8-7 at 330 pounds twitched up individual. I think he had the fastest 10 at the Combine for a line, like something insane like that. So very twitched up. You like his tape when he's headed in the right direction. And what I mean by that is like when he's running and when he knows what he's doing, you're like, wow, this guy should have been picked much, much higher.

And then you go through about five clips and you say, oh, like, he doesn't take the right angle. His footworks all up. His hand placement's terrible. Like he's getting bold. He's getting his face pulled off at 330 pounds, right? He's very, very technically raw. And I think that that's something that, you know, you're betting on upside at that point because he's a big dude.

Moves very, very well. But again, very raw, struggled a little bit the first day at rookie minicamp. You know, he's learning a new position. They moved him in the guard, played a little bit of tackle. So kind of getting, you know, getting his lumps in in the rookie minicamp. camp, but a guy in terms of upside, he used to be really good about in the corner

is the same way. A guy who's got a lot of physical measurable, I think he's 6-1, long arms, I think he jumps 37 or 40 inches at his pro-day, and you know, you like his tape in terms of how he competes, but I think he is a little stiff at time, gets a little nervous, if that makes sense,

and gets a little tight with his feet. But I think you've got two guys who are very, very raw, but I think in terms of athletic projection, they have all the height weight speeds stuff that you're looking for and are somewhat special in that regard. So I kind of like that. I like that they kind of shifted their tact in the seventh round and got these kind of two

physical freaks. All right. Two more for Logan. Will they, you studied this draft, you mock drafted, give me the player that you think they'll regret passing on more than any other. Oh my gosh.

Geez. There was somebody you loved. There was somebody you loved when they were on the board. that you wished they should have taken, that they would have taken. Who was it? Yeah, gosh, in my mock draft at 11, I had them taking Jameson Williams out of Alabama. Like, he was a guy that I really, really enjoyed watching. I thought he was an outstanding football player, physical, fast, kind of, I think the most explosive offensive player in the draft. And when you see that kind of thing, despite the ACL, you're like, man, like, that's a tough one to pass up on.

also Troy Anderson out of Montana State. I thought he reminded me quite a bit of like Luke Keeckley, you know, like big, fast, super instinctive, physical, like nasty physical. Gosh, I loved watching. Who took him? Was it the Falcons? Atlanta. Atlanta took him, yeah.

So, yeah, that was interesting. And then there was, I really was high on, we'll see how it goes. I just talked to my buddy who's a special team's coordinator out in Baltimore, more about Daniel Falulele, the kid out of Minnesota, because I really liked his tape against Purdue and Ohio State. He looked like, you know, elite in terms of for a man that big, the way he moved. I thought, man, this is a guy that's going to project really well, but apparently he got so out of shape right now. We didn't even finish their warm-up for the rookie minicamp or whatever. So, you know, like, obviously, like you might miss because the weight

stuff, I really liked him. I thought, man, what if they were to draft him in the third or fourth round, have him play right tackle, move, Cosmy into guard. You get this tremendous athletic upside and a guy with a huge ceiling. But those were the three guys that I would kind of like, man, I really, really, really liked them. Probably, I will say with Daniel Folle. I liked him more than other people did, but those are the guys, Troy Anderson and Williams. I think most of us understand that if Drake London had been there at 11, that's who they would have taken. But let's just assume that they were not able to trade back, that New Orleans

and no one else was interested. Who do you think they would have taken at 11? Do you think they would have taken Dotson? Definitely would have taken dot to not 11. I think that's just too high. I think they were probably, in terms of their board, it's hard to know, but I would assume it was Drake London, Wilson Alave, probably is what I would feel. So I would think if they're going receiver there, it's one of those two guys. And the other guy that I...

Yeah, I think Alave. And then the other guy that was interesting there was Kyle Hamilton. I had my reservations about his top end speed and stuff like that, but his tape is really, really good. He's instinctive as heck. He's physical. I love the length in terms of how he matches up with tight ends. So I think that in terms of guys,

I probably would feel better with Hamilton over Alave at 11. But, yeah, that'd be the direction. I think they would have gone. Yeah, I think that's the one for me I've said all along. Like, I like Dotson the player, and I don't mind the trade back in the selection of him at 16. But I think that if they end up regretting not taking a player at 11, it'll be Hamilton.

Or Williams. agree with the other Williams, but Hamilton, the tape just was awesome. And Baltimore picking them in so many ways almost justifies the feeling that he's really good. All right, last one. No news yet, and maybe by the time people hear this, there will be news. But do you think they should try to sign James Bradbury? Yeah, so my thoughts, I'm going to kind of take the easy way out here. I like good football players. I think James Bradbury is a good football player. But you have to remember the financial element that comes with this,

which comes with these signings, right? So James Bradbury at $5 million a year, I think everybody in the NFL would fall in their face to get that done, right? But James Bradbury is $18 million a year when you're trying to resign Terry, when you're trying to resign Duran Payne, when you're trying to resign Cole Holcomb. That looks a little bit different. It changed the complexion of that signing pretty dramatic.

dramatically because kind of like the draft with trading back, if I can sign James Bradbury for this kind of top end deal, but I can't re-sign coal or I can't resign pain. I'm probably going to be kicking myself down the road because of that, right, in an area that isn't a tremendous need. And those are the kinds of triage decisions

you need to make as a front office evaluator, right? Is the price right? And so if the price is right and they can make it work and get these guys that are kind of, I'd say, cornerstones of the organization moving forward signed, I think that's the way to do it. But again, like, if you want too much money,

it inhibits your ability to do that, I think you've really got to look long and hard at that signing and say maybe it's not the right fit. I think if they signed him, he'd be the best corner on their roster. Do you agree or disagree? I like him a lot. I'm trying to think, yeah, I think probably, you know, I think William Jackson III, if they're, you know,

like when he was in Cincinnati, I liked his tape. I don't say a lot, but I liked it. I've enjoyed watching James Radbury much more. I think he's a much more sound. player. So yes, I do think you would probably, you would be their best corner on the roster. I like, again, I like Kyle Fuller, too. But I think you want to be able to kind of use Kyle Fuller as like that move piece, you know, I think even though he probably played better outside last year, in my opinion, but I do think just having good corners, especially in today's NFL,

especially in this division, it's something that you have to do. And I think you never go wrong signing good football players. And that's my, that's my take on that. I think Bradbury is a good football player. Spot rack has his calculated market value at 12.1 million annually. So Washington would have to do some things to make that work. And obviously they've got Terry McClearn on their minds as well. I always enjoy the conversation. I really do. Again, Craig Hoffman and Logan Paulson are debuting a podcast this week. And you'll be able to find that anywhere you find a podcast. It's part of the Odyssey Podcast Network, and I'm going to be on one of their first shows, I think, later on this week as well. Appreciate it, as always.

Hope you're well. All right, thanks, Kevin. Appreciate everybody. Thanks for having me on. All right. That's it for the show today. Thanks to Logan. Thanks to Joe Beninati. Tomorrow will either be Tommy. There's a chance. We'll have Cooley before the end of the week. I gave him the assignments of two more film breakdowns of draft prospects, and he says he's working on them. So hopefully we'll have those before the end of the week.