The Kevin Sheehan Show - Concerned About Washington's Defense?

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

Kevin and Thom today with more on the Commanders' loss in Philly including more discussion about Ron Rivera's decision to kick the PAT rather than go for 2. How concerned are Kevin and Thom with the defense through 4 games? The boys answered that. Giants-Bears, MLB Playoff picks, and more on the show as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show today presented by Window Nation.

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Washington. They lost the game on Sunday, Tommy. But man, most of the conversation you would think they won the game. Are you into moral victories? Yes or no? Well, I'm not into black and white, okay? A loss is not always just a loss. It depends on what we're talking about.

It depends. Because I know a lot of black and white conversations we've had where, nope, he's in my book. Let me write it down real quickly. Well, that's personal stuff. Okay. I mean, they lost the week before. Is that lost the same as this loss?

Nope. Of course not. No, that's fair. You know? Yeah. So, and that there's the degrees. I mean, what did they accomplish out of this loss? The conversation of the team has changed from the week before.

You know, we're not talking about them as an embarrassment anymore. Nobody left Lincoln financial field embarrassed. over that game last week. And I think the quarterback and the offensive coordinator did a lot to restore their credibility. They accomplished a lot, even though they lost the game. Okay. They accomplished restoring credibility. Anything else?

I mean, did you learn anything? I feel even stronger and better about Sam Hal now than I did in the comeback he led against Denver. I think their play in Philly was more instructive and should make you feel better than their two wins. I think that's true. I think I agree with that. I mean, look, I'm not into moral victories, but I am into progress and process. And because you can juxtapose Sunday with last Sunday, and you just see this massive, massive, you know, one-week change.

And everything we talked about with respect that needed to be changed, offensively focused on, did. I actually gave Eric B. Ename an A-plus on Sunday, and I gave Sam an A. I mean, I thought Sam was great. Don't get me wrong. But I think without that game plan, without the strategy of a lot of quick game, a lot of quick throws, screens, bubbles, sprint outs, moving the pocket a little bit, adding protection on

some of the dropbacks, running the football. It didn't even matter necessarily on Sunday how successfully they ran it. They were a threat to run it. You know, in the first half in particular, I give Eric Biennamy a lot of credit for last week. By the way, I don't want to give Ron much credit for it, but I do think that Ron Rivera, because he said as much, and I kind of forgot to mention this on the show yesterday. I mentioned last week that there's going to be a sit down between Ron and E.B. Eric Beenemy last week, because we heard it in the conversation about, you know, we got to

got to make sure that what we're doing, you know, is the right thing before we even get to the players off of the Buffalo game. And so I think Ron Rivera said, we can't continue to expose him this way. Can we at least add some more run potential, some more quick game? I bet you Ron Rivera, again, I think Eric B. Enemy is he gets the A plus. He developed the game plan. He called the plays. he made it so much easier for him. But Ron pretty much sent out a notice last week that offensively we couldn't be what we were here at the beginning of the season. If that continues, it's going to be really hard to sustain anything resembling competitive.

And I think that they did that. I just thought it was such a big change, and that's the kind of offense I think we need to see. If we see a lot of, let's make it easy for Sam, balls out of his hands, hits that third step, boom. We got people open and we got people that can get open, especially against most teams. And oh, by the way, we got a big horse in the back field that they've got to respect and we're actually going to give them the ball a little bit early in the game. It all just kind of worked. It all worked on Sunday. Yeah.

It's encouraging. You know, I think it is very encouraging. again, if we played a schedule game at the beginning of the year, at least the way I saw it, they were two and two after four games, which is what they are. You know, and I didn't think they'd be this competitive in that loss to the Eagles, particularly after the Buffalo game. I give EB a lot of credit for what he did, and I wrote about that in my column. I give Sam Howe a lot of credit for letting, you know, letting the water.

to slide off his back from last week and playing with confidence and moxie. I mean, his legs are, the way he ran when he was in trouble was really valuable, I thought. And I'll

give, you know, if you want to give Ron credit for going to Eric Biedermy and say, hey, you know, we just lost 37 to 3. We can't do that again this week. We've got to do something different, you know. Yeah, I mean... That's a lot for a head coach to conclude. I don't.

I know that's a lot for the head coach to come up with. So, yeah. Okay, let's give him credit. Nothing gets past him, remember. Nothing gets past Ron. I know. I know. But I think it was E.B.'s and Sam Howe's Day.

No doubt. I just kind of recalled after yesterday in thinking about the game, and I did go back and watch some of the game again, not as much as I thought I would have time for. But anyway, I just, I remembered, and I didn't. say it on the podcast yesterday, but I made a big deal out of it a week ago that Ron said in that press conference after the Buffalo game, you know, first we got to kind of make sure what we're doing, you know, is the right thing. And then we'll get to the players. And I said, that is,

that is Ron saying, Eric and I are going to have a sit down and make sure that this doesn't happen again, that we can't continue to do what we've been doing with him. We're going to get a get him killed. By the way, he was sacked five times. He was pressured a bunch on Sunday, but it was also, you know, it was three to one in terms of the quick game versus everything else. And it was just, it was nice to see. Where did you come down on the decision to go for two or not to go for two? I was fine not to go for two at that point. You know, this whole notion of going for two points. I know there's, in a lot of, instances. There's an

analytics-driven reason behind going for two points in a lot of cases. But I think there's a lot of macho bullshit that goes along with I like my coach to try to win the game in that moment.

You know? I mean, I think I agree. I think you want to say to your players, look, you fought back to this point. Okay? We're on an even, the game's starting all over again. Okay? It's back to zero-zero.

I have confidence that you can beat these guys, you know, even Steven. I think it shows confidence in your players that you think, okay, let's tie the game, let's get back to the beginning, because I have confidence that you guys can win. And say for Terry McLaurin catch that was ruled out of bounds, they may have done that. You know?

So I have no problem with him not going for two in that situation. I think it was the right move to make. And it's just a lot of, you know, inane macho bullshit that's going with this. Oh, I like my coach to win in that situation. You know, winner go home kind of thing. I mean, it's just just bullshit. You had fought back to even. at the end of regulation time against the team that you were an underdog by eight and a half points.

Okay, in a way, you were playing with house money at that point. So let's start all over. Let's go head to head again and see how we do. That would have been, that was my philosophy. So actually, I was just about to say, this is starting to get a little bit concerning to me. We just, it seems like we've agreed too much. In fact, from Grib, Grib gave us five stars. on Apple. I've been listening to you guys forever. I can't believe how much you've grown together

and have become one in your opinions. That's from Grib. Don't forget, you can rate us and review us on Apple, Spotify anywhere else. Apple and Spotify is important. Five stars, if it makes sense for you, that's the nicest thing to do with a quick one to two sentence review. It really helps us out. Subscribe and follow us on Apple and Spotify as well. So I'm with you. I didn't have a problem with it. But what you just said there at the end, by the way, I don't think we agree. Tommy and I agree maybe more on things recently, but I think it's a blip. I think we will be right back to disagreeing on a lot of things soon enough, Grib. In part, it's because they're doing a lot of things right for the first time.

Well, I think what you just said, though, at the very end, doesn't connect with a lot of people. I don't want to speak for a lot of people, it didn't connect with me. I think actually, if you really felt that they were kind of lucky to be there because they were the lesser team, then you should think about, you know, taking, you know, one swing on one play. It's when you think you've got a chance to win with multiple plays in an extended game that you go to overtime. But anyway, that aside, my position, Tommy, was I was okay. with it too. And I explained why yesterday, and I'll net it out for you. First of all, I didn't feel like it was one of those games where they were so much the lesser team and their best chance was on

one play. Let's do one play rather than going head to head with these guys because they're so much better. I didn't feel that way on Sunday. They had 375-yard touchdown drives and a 64-yard touchdown drive. They played at a very high-level. It was a high-level game on both teams. Second, Secondly, I did not feel good about a condensed field play. Their success was in space on Sunday, attacking Philadelphia's secondary. And you were giving their secondary a chance to play more even up on a condensed field. Those were my reasons. But I want to read a few tweets because this was a major topic. And this is why, you know, when we can talk about games during a season, it's so much. better because things like this pop up. And it was a very emotional response on Ron's decision to kick and go to overtime. So this was from Burgundy Mike. Burgundy Mike wrote me on

Twitter. You can follow Tommy on Twitter at Tom Levero, T-H-O-M. You can follow me on Twitter at Kevin Sheen, D.C. I was very surprised that this was your take. Pretty lucky to hang with them, really. they were always going to be big favorites in overtime. Strongly believed that the odds to win were much better going for it. It was a 50-50 proposition. John agreed with me. He said, I agree. We saw enough riverboat run last week.

Give the boys a chance, and he did. I think he's talking about going for that fourth down in the Buffalo game. From Lewis, Lewis wrote, reasonable take. I didn't think about it as much as I wished for it right after the Dotson touchdown catch. guess I was thinking more about if you had told me before the game, we've got a two-point conversion to win it. You take it all day long. But as you say, Kevin, with context, they were toe-to-to-to.

From David on Twitter, we had to go for two. We had them on the ropes and they would have choked if we did. And this from J-Rob, if you're okay for not going for two, then you're okay with them losing. What a gutless coach. Way to show your team. That's it. Yeah.

Way to show your team you believe in them. 31 of 32 coaches would have gone for two, maybe not Belichick. So I guess he's down to 30 out of 32. So I do love all of this. And let me just begin with this on, because I cover this a little bit, but not as much as I want to do it right here with you. And in follow up to these tweets. I think this is one of those issues that everybody gets super emotional about, but there's not a clearly wrong or clearly right answer. there are reasonable sides to both of this, although I agree with Tommy, and I'll address the J-Rob tweet in a moment.

This idea that you're gutless if you don't do it. That's ridiculous. That's nonsense to me. In fact, I think you can make the case that you're gutless if you don't send your team into overtime to compete with the other team in a real football game. But I'll get to that in a moment. But I think, you know, here's the problem with everything we discuss and it can be encapsulated into this two-point conversion conversation. We don't have any of the vital information to actually really have a strong conviction on any of this. Because these teams, during the week, there are two to three two-point plays that they have going into a game.

Some weeks they feel really good about the plays. Some weeks they're like, these are the best we got, but man, that defense, the way they match up may not be the game to go for two unless we have to. And then, by the way, three hours of a football game with new information may change the way they thought at 1 o'clock. Like at 1 o'clock they've got their plays, this is how they feel, but by 4 o'clock they may feel differently. Look, I say that understanding. We don't have enough information about anything we talk about. Well, that's it. Look, this is what I've always talked about, the difference between information and knowledge.

We don't have the knowledge of what they do. Well, we don't have the information either, but we've never let the lack of it stop us from opining. And we're certainly not going to start now and saying, oh, well, we don't have enough information because we would have no show. But let me get to two of the specific tweets. Burgundy Mike, you know, wrote that he was surprised with my take. It was pretty lucky to hang with them, really. They were always going to be the bigger favorites in overtime. I don't know why you would be convinced Burgundy, Mike,

that they'd be a big favorite in overtime. They were a big favorite before the game started. I don't have that number. If anybody has the in-game overtime, money line, send it to me on Twitter. I would guess that Philly was probably minus 130, minus 125 somewhere in that general area. There's no way that they were an overwhelming favorite or a big favorite. They were probably a favorite because they were the home team and they were the perceived

better team. But these two teams had gone at it for three hours and it was 31 to 31. You know, either team that won the toss was probably capable of winning it on their first drive or at least scoring points on the first drive. As far as pretty lucky to hang with them, that's where I would just completely disagree because it's your opinion. It's not the way I felt, Tommy. I felt like this was a tightly contested game and that Washington wasn't lucky to be in it at the end. Now, if you want to say they're lucky Philadelphia didn't walk it off rather than score a touchdown because they had an opportunity perhaps to walk it off with a field goal,

if you want to say they're lucky that Curtis Samuel didn't catch the pass on the play before Dotson because the game would have ended. I think, you know, they're all so lucky that Terry McLaren's catch and overtime wasn't called a catch on the field. So there was a lot of that. But anyway, I just didn't feel like they were lucky to be in it. Before the game, I may have felt that way, not watching it. I thought that that was an absolute great football game, high-level football game, played between two. teams playing very well. I'm not saying Washington's better than Philadelphia. I'm just saying they matched them throughout the day. Remember, they had a 10-point lead in the first half.

And then as far as this J-Rob, when he says, if you're okay for not going for two, then you're okay with losing. What a gutless coach. Way to show your team you believe in them. 31 out of 32 coaches would have gone for two. That's definitely not true. Okay. It is still in the NFL. The majority, I don't know how much of the majority, the majority of coaches in the league still kick and go to overtime. I mean, there was a time, you know, 10, 15 years ago where nobody ever did it, really. But you're just wrong.

31 out of 30 or 30 out of 32 coaches would not have made the decision to go for two. There are more now than ever before, and it wouldn't surprise me if a third of the coaches would have gone for two. But context is everything. You can't, you know, the math is one thing, the analytics. There's in-game reality context that's all taken into consideration. By the way, I mentioned this on radio this morning. I specifically recall, I think the first time I saw a team go for two to win the game at the end of a game.

And it was years after the two-point conversion was put into place because really teams just didn't do it. They were like, oh, no, no, no, we're going to go to overtime. Mike Shanahan's Broncos beat the Chargers. It was like 36 to 35 or 38 to 37, something like that. And he went for two at the end of the game to win it. And I remember saying it was probably like 2002, 2003. I remember saying, man, that was really cool to see the game end that way. I was also really excited about it, if I recall, because I had San Diego plus the points.

and I could only lose if it went to overtime. But to your point, I think J. Robb's description of not going for two means you're okay with losing and what a gutless move and way to show your team you believe in them is just like one, I don't want to say limited way to look at it. It's just one way to look at it because the other way to look at it is sort of what I think you were describing, which is that good. Going for two is a move that actually shows that your team, or shows your team,

we don't have belief that you can win this game in overtime. So we're going to go with a borderline flip of a coin to win it, rather than letting the players decide it on more than one play. That's the fallacy of the your gutless if you don't go for two and win, you know, mantra. It sounds tough, but it's really, when you think about, it, the battle cry of a team that doesn't think they're as good as the other team. You know, not always... I would agree with that.

Not always, but... I would agree with that. I think it's... You know, I shouldn't have used the analogy found money because that... And let me take that back. But that's not what I meant. I'm more inclined to agree with you on the way the game unfolded and how competitive they were.

But you could argue that going for two shows a... a sense of fear that your team's not capable of playing with that. Right. Absolutely. Now, Tommy, you know, I'm saying that and you're saying that, and you can make that case. The truth is we live in a world where going for two in the win is perceived to be the ballsy move, you know?

But I just don't think, I really do think you can look at it as, man, that coach doesn't think they can win. the game in overtime. Why would he... See, in that moment, I didn't view Washington as this plucky little underdog that, you know,

had hung in there through blind luck and had the opportunity to step to the roulette table and scream red. You know? Like, I just didn't feel that way. And I think you can make the case

that when teams do... Look, if you have a really good two-point play, like, you go into that game and you're like, I got the play. Oh my God. You know, the Philly play in the Super Bowl. Like, you got some sort of play that there's no way you've practiced it,

and you know based on the way they play defense on two-point. This is like, this is a 90-percenter going in. And if we get the chance to win a game, that's one thing. But if you aren't really sure, and the chances, you know, historically are like 48.4% over the last 10 years on two-point conversions. By the way, somebody sent me a tweet, and I got to find this. It's just, it was, I forget your name. You sent me a tweet that said two-point conversions to win games at the end of the game are even lower than 48.4%.

And you said, I don't have the number, but I've read that before. That wouldn't surprise me, but I don't have that data, but somebody sent that to me. But the point is there are situations where maybe you feel like it is your best chance to win without suggesting we're not good nothing over time. But you've got a really good play. But I think you can also make the case that, you know, I don't want to call it cowardly if you go for two. That's not what I'm saying. But, you know, I think you send a message to your team. Yeah, we're kicking this, you know, MFer.

and we're going to overtime because we're the better team and we're going to kick their ass, you know, in overtime. We're not putting this on one play where a flukeish, you know, tip of a ball at the line of scrimmage could end it. We're just as good as them and we can win this game in overtime. Yeah. Anyway. You know, there are no absolutes. There's not an absolute two-point rule, you know, across the board.

You know, it's not a measure of current. or confidence all the time. Okay? I mean, every play is a different situation. And I just think that, you know, I think what he did was defensible. Me too. Now, I did not like his explanation after the game.

I know. You know, he's just... I know, they were tired. We were gassed. I mean... Well, weren't the Eagles gasped, too? Of course. You could say that.

that. I mean, it's just, he's not great. And I hate to really crush him because that was a heat of the moment. And you could tell he was really fired up, I think, over the Terry call. And he was, you know, they just had a battle. You know, this wasn't a beat down like the week before. They had a legit chance to win that game. And that was a crushing ending to the game. I will say this. In going back and just watching the, I think the play that I'm most frustrated with is that third and 17 in overtime. They came with six on the pass rush, but they played 10 to 12 yards deep in coverage, and they just gave up nine crucial yards way too easily. I think that's a play Jack Del Rio has to be kicking himself.

over. Now, maybe it wasn't called that way, and maybe they just played it that way. But Cooley said this yesterday. In that situation, you got to be up. You can't give up yards because you're not playing third and 17 not to give up a first down and let him kick the field goal. You don't want him to kick the field goal because it ends the game or it could potentially end the game. That was a frustrating play. And it followed, by the way, a horrible intentional grounding call against Philadelphia because he was not in trouble in the pocket. That was a miscommunication with the receiver. But whatever. That was the one play in going back that I really think they are kicking themselves over. He played it aggressively in that he sent two

extra pass rushers. He was like, we're going to make him make a quick decision and throw it and hopefully throw it incomplete. But he didn't back that up with better coverage. He backed it up with soft coverage. And Jalen Hertz was awesome on Sunday. I thought he was great. I thought the Eagles were really good on Sunday. I thought it was their best game. And we've seen, I've seen all of their games this year because all of them have been standalone national television games leading into this game. I thought by far and away that was their best offensive game. And I hate to say this because I don't like the Eagles and I can't stand the Eagles fan base. I'm just a big Jalen Hertz fan. I was at Bama, I was at Oklahoma, I was when he got it going

two years ago, when he got the opportunity. There's something about him that just reeks of winner and leader. And I, you know, I hated that he played well Sunday, but they got a good team. And Washington did go toe to toe with them. They went toe to toe. Didn't, didn't Didn't Brian a Rackpo say that one year about going toe to toe to toe with Seattle? And it was like they scored late to cut the lead to eight or something like that. The final score was. I think it was a Monday night game. Yeah, it was.

You're right. Yeah. So I want to talk about the defense when we come back. I also want to talk about the Giants in that debacle last night. The baseball playoffs start today. We'll talk a little bit about that. First, however, wind donation right now has this deal going on. All right, get two windows free for every two you buy,

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she and they'll give you a free estimate and they'll take good care of you. How concerned are we with the defense after Sunday's game? We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Go to mybooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. They will give you a cash deposit bonus when you make that initial deposit. $50 minimum on your initial deposit. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. This is the fairest place I know to wager on sports. Fair point spreads, money lines, totals, fair pricing. You get paid if you win. By the way, I just pulled up MyBooky at MyBooky.ag. Washington is six and a half point favorite, down a half point from

yesterday over Chicago. The total 44 and a half. By the way, that's some confidence in Washington's offense. Remember how low their totals were for the first two weeks of the season? And Chicago scored 28 last week as well. The Terps, Tommy, they have Ohio State on Saturday in Columbus as an undefeated team against a 4-0 ranked fourth in the country undefeated team. I think it's probably the highest profile game Maryland's had in a long time. It's the noon kickoff with Gus Johnson on Fox. Terps are 19.5.1.00 dogs to the Buckeyes at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. I can't wait for the Maryland game Saturday.

I don't think they're going to win the game, but I don't think it's going to be one of these games we've seen in Columbus when Maryland goes to Columbus and plays, like 66 to 17, I think was the score. I think they scored 71 year. Ohio State's just not that kind of an explosive team this year. But yeah, I'm excited about it. By the way, from Jason on Twitter, why wasn't Antonio Gibson's fumble on the list of things that you didn't like?

Because we recovered it. Don't you agree? It's still a huge problem considering he's doing it week to week now. Big oversight, man. You're right. I didn't put that on the list of things I didn't like, and I didn't like that. It was a pitch and, you know, it bounced right. back up to him. But God, I mean, I just think they need Antonio Gibson. But you're right. He put it on

the ground again. And they didn't, you know, and they recovered it fortunately. He recovered it, fortunately. So Tommy, concern level scale. Zero, zero concern. Five, you're massively concerned. Where are you on Washington's defense? You know, it's a bit complicated, and I heard, you know, the guy from PFF on your show this morning. Oh, Nick, Ackard, yeah, Nick's good. Right. And I kind of agree with him in that Del Rio's track record here has been their defenses get, his defenses get better as the season goes on.

But that means you're giving away games at the beginning of the year. You know, so that's not necessarily a good way to run a defense or to be a coach in this day and age. It really is surprising that they're not more of a force. They're not more of a wrecking force in opposing teams' backfields. Like the teams they have faced, some of them have been. You know, for four first-round draft picks, you would think that they would be meeting at the quarterback at least once a series, and that's not happening. So Tommy from Frederick, are you going to answer the question? Where are you on the scale of zero to five concern level?

I'm a trade. Okay. Did you say three? And I missed it? No. Okay. No. I'm just not that concerned.

I understand the argument that, you know, they should be wrecking games more. Look, those are elite defenses that do that. San Francisco, their defense does that. They're the one that does it more than any other. Cleveland's defense can do that. There are a few of them in the league. Philly's defense, you know, I don't know,

I think they're kind of weak on the back end. But Washington's defense coming into this year, I said this is another top 10 defense. However, I did, as some of you have pointed out, I did say if Chase Young is the Chase Young we thought he was when they drafted him, you could potentially have now a total game wrecking player, a Nick Bosa type, a Miles Garrett type, you know, a T.J. Watt type. You know, somebody who, that has to be game plan for, and now all of a sudden everybody else gets freed up, et cetera, et cetera. We haven't seen that.

We've seen Chase Young have some moments. Look, he's looked better than I think a lot of people thought he would look. I think there's still some concerns about him in the building with respect to the scheme. But you can't argue with some of the pressures he's gotten. He had multiple pressures in another sack on Sunday. But I still think this is going to end up being a top 10 defense. The idea that Del Rio's defenses start slowly and then pick up, I guess. Remember, last year, you know, in 2022, they ended up playing two teams. We didn't know it at the time.

But Jacksonville and Detroit ended up being outstanding offensive football teams, you know, and they played those two teams in the opener. In 2021, they had the chargers that they opened up with. Buffalo was in week three. So they had some big time offensive, that whole season they did, you know, some big time offensive teams. I'm at a 0.5, and the only reason I'm at a 0.5 is I'm still a little bit concerned with their run defense at times. And I think Sunday exposed them a little bit on the back end. I know that, and I mentioned Benjamin St. Juice on the list of things that I kind of liked. I thought that he was good in the secondary, and I thought the pass rush was decent at times, especially in the first half. But it was a rough, rough day for the rookie Emmanuel Forbes.

And you mentioned it, Nick Ackridge from PFF was on the radio show. He had a very low grade. They really attacked him as they do a lot of rookie corners. I think the bigger issue here is they just played Buffalo and Philadelphia. And Josh Allen and the Bills just destroyed Miami on Sunday, by the way. All right, they destroyed Miami. Josh Allen was 21 of 25. He had a perfect passer rating against a Dolphins defense that is pretty good.

They just faced the best offensive line you could argue in football in Philadelphia on their home field with maybe one of the best receiving cores and a really good quarterback. And the Buffalo game was misleading. Those of you that have said, you can't give up 30 plus points in three straight games and call yourself a good defense. Well, they haven't. They haven't. Buffalo scored on defense. The offense turned the ball over people five times last week. Buffalo scored on defense and they were set up for scores multiple times. Arizona scored 16 in the game as a team, but they had a defensive touchdown in that game too. And another touchdown, another score was a field goal after a turnover where they drove all of one yard.

The defense won the opener, period. Without the defense in the opener, they lose that game. The defense gave up a lot against Denver early, no doubt. And then Jamon Davis completely changed the game on one play. And the defense dominated the rest of the way except for the Hail Mary. Yes. Buffalo, they, Buffalo with five turnovers had 16 points going into the fourth quarter. Sunday was different.

Sunday, they got off the field on third down. Okay, much better than they did against Buffalo. And I'm not suggesting that they played great against Buffalo. I didn't say that. But they were not the problem against Buffalo. The offense was the nine sacks and the five turnovers were the problem against Buffalo. Sunday, the issue was the explosives in particular against Philadelphia. And I thought that, you know, and for those of you that want to say, look, if you're a great defense, you get to the quarterback and you sack them.

Well, they did sack hurts three times in the game. but that you have game-changing plays. You have takeaways. I can't disagree with that. They're not an elite defense, but I do think they're a really good defense and a top-10 defense, and I think they'll prove that over the course of the year.

I think a lot of it has to do the feeling, the current feeling is the two teams they just faced, and we'll see what happens against Chicago, Atlanta, New York, and the next three. because when you look at the next three, and I hate doing this because you don't know what it's going to look like when you get there, but we're close enough to there. Before the season started, they were only projected to be a favorite in one of these three games against Chicago, Atlanta, New York. Now they're projected to be favored in all three games. Yeah.

And none of the three are good offensively. If you play a schedule game, they're set up to be five and two after three weeks. I'd be thrilled if they were five and two. I wouldn't wager on five and two. Tommy, I think Thursday night's a bit of a trap. I'm concerned about Thursday night. Yep, I am. I am.

And at the same time, I actually think in some ways it's a pretty good matchup for them. like I can't see this should be another good offensive game Chicago's got two total sacks on the year I think somebody sent that to me earlier I didn't look it up I can look it up right now to make sure they have been bludgeoned

by teams here to the tune of 38, 27, 41, and 31 points they have lost 14 regular season games in a row I didn't realize that until until this morning. They've not won since last November in a game. I think it's last November. They beat the Patriots in a Monday night game.

They had a bunch of turnovers and they won the game. I mean, they stink. Yes, they do. They have two sacks defensively. And yet, Justin Fields just played the best three quarters of the season. He was 96% completion percentage, 300 yards passing and four touchdowns through three quarters. Yes, against that Denver defense, understood what the Denver defense is. We now know one of the reasons we were able to explode for 35 points in two and a half quarters against them.

But Justin Fields is a dangerous quarterback. And they've got more weapons than they had a year ago. but I do think offensively this should be a good game. Stop it. What? They're going to roll over them. It's going to be a festival at FedEx Field Thursday night. Party, baby.

Is this a must win? Well, it's a must not lose. How's that? This morning Denton asked me right. If they lose to the bears, then the conversation changes again. Denton, my producer right before the show said, do you want to do something about this being a must win? And I said, nah, not yet.

I mean, we can do something like that on Thursday. But I did say on the show today that it kind of feels like a must win. Not in the same way Arizona did, because I think Arizona was more about you want to keep everybody invested and paying attention to the first season without Dan. And it would have really felt like a pin-pricked of, big balloon if they had lost Arizona. This one is actually more of a must-win kind of a game for the right reasons,

meaning that they're two-and-two and there's a feeling that they're capable of being a pretty good team this year and capable of contending for an NFC playoff spot. And this is the kind of game that if you lose, you may be looking back on it in January and say, oh my God, how did we lose to that team Chicago that went four and 13? How was one of their four or five wins against us? And it cost us a playoff berth. Just kind of like the Cleveland game was last year. Cleveland was different.

They were a better team than Chicago appears to be right now. But this is, you know, they only play 17 of them. They count a lot more than they do in other sports. You got them at home. You got them on a short week. They haven't won. They'll be desperate. They played their best game.

I understand that. But so did Washington. But I don't know. I feel like this is a tricky, tricky spot for them. I don't think it's true. I can tell you this. I'll tell you what. It must not lose because if I have them five and two in the three games,

you know, in their next three games, I only have them win in three or four tops of the rest of the games. so I still think they're heading towards that Ron Rivera season special of 8 and 9 9 and 8 8 8 1 something like that but this is this is not they're not going to lose against the bears okay um I it would not surprise me if they're the bears are in the smell test on Thursday. So it doesn't mean that I think they're going to win, but I think they're going to probably play it closer.

I think there's going to be a big need for the books on Thursday night for Chicago to cover. Real quickly on the Monday night game last night, good God. That was hideous. And, you know, we said last week that it's hard to imagine something worse than nine sacks and four hundred or sacks.

And in fact, it hadn't happened in 28 years. Last night, Daniel Jones was sacked 10 times and threw two interceptions and fumbled once. He had a backbreaking pick six in a game that was still there to be had in the third quarter. But there were a couple of things from the game. Devin Witherspoon had one of the great rookie cornerback games we've ever seen. It was sensational. the fifth pick out of Illinois. You know, the three corners were Witherspoon, Gonzalez, who got hurt, by the way,

after grading out in the first three weeks as the top rookie in the draft in New England. And, you know, New England took Gonzalez after Washington took Forbes. But Witherspoon was the first to go. And he ended up with two sacks, a pick six, and a forced fumble in the game. That's about as good as you can do it. and he had a couple of big tackles, too, in the game. That was one of the... Did you see the video of Brian?

Yeah. With Daniel Jones. Growing his tablet at Daniel Jones. Yeah. That was not a good luck. He was disgusted. So that leads me to this. I don't think I've ever...

I shouldn't say, of course I have, I'm sure at some point. In recent years, I don't think I've ever seen... a worse performance by an offensive line in an NFL game. And not only that, I would add to that, I don't know that I've ever seen a combination of worse offensive line play with worse play calling. They didn't, by my count, they didn't run a screen until the fourth quarter. And Daniel Jones had no chance in that game.

None. Now, their best, their two best players were out. Andrew Thomas, their left tackle, and Sequin Barclay is rather important to that team. They were out, but they also lost their starting center early in the game. The kid from Minnesota, who we talked about before the draft that they took in the second round, I think it was, third round, and his starting and is good. They lost their left guard. Daniel Jones had no chance.

The only chance the Giants had to generating any kind of offense actually was Daniel Jones. He rushed for 66 yards, and every throw he made was under duress or on the run, and he still threw for over 200 yards and was 27 of 34. I just can't believe that Brian Daibler or Mike Kafka, whoever it is who was calling plays in New York, didn't call more screens and more quick game. Like it's the exact same thing that happened to Sam last week, except Sam, a lot of those sacks were on Sam.

I don't think a lot of the – maybe three – I don't know. You want to do the F-A-U-L-T-SAC game with Daniel Jones. I don't think you do. But from my vantage point watching on TV, I can't remember watching a game in which a quarterback had so little chance than Daniel Jones had. That was an offensive line issue right there. I'll exit that game with this.

I still am a Daniel Jones guy. I think that Daniel Jones can play. I think he proved that last year. I think if you put him on a, he's not elite. He's not, you know, again, I think he is a bona fide top half of the league's starting quarterback in the NFL and on the right kind of a team, which they had last year with Sequin Barkley Healthy and an improved offensive line. And by the way, they didn't have any receivers last year.

They had none. I still believe Daniel Jones can play. But my God, last night was ugly. Then right now, right now, Daniel Jones for Sam Howe, straight up. Yes. You do it? Yes, 100%. Wow.

I would. That took some guts. Not really. I don't think it took much guts. I mean, I know a lot of people listening are going to think, oh, you're insane. You're whatever. No, I'll take the 6'5-230-pound dude who has already proved. he can do it at a high level at times.

He has not been consistent, and he has had some awful games that have been his fault. I understand that. Last year, I saw the guy that, you know, the people that really love Daniel Jones coming out, and by the way, this team like Daniel Jones, Jay Gruden liked Daniel Jones coming out, but last year I saw a guy that you could win with, and they did.

I mean, they won a playoff game. They went to the playoffs. They won a playoff game, and this year they have been decimated by injuries here early in the year, and it's going to be a long year. Look, more importantly, for giant fans, if they end up, you know, they play Miami and Buffalo the next two weeks, if they end up having one of these top draft choices,

would you take one of the young quarterbacks that are going to be in the draft? I think the answer to that is yes, too, because, I mean, yeah, I would, of course, right now. I mean, Sam is still, come on, right? We're still four games into this. The jury ain't in yet with a verdict. Far from it. I know that. I know that.

I'll tell you what, that sounds like a poll question to make. Good one. Maybe tomorrow. Hold on. Let me write that one down. All right. Let's get to your thoughts on the baseball playoffs before they start. We'll also talk about.

something that Jerry Jones said today. And Tommy, somebody passed away that I think you were a fan of. I think I've heard you talk about him before. I could be wrong, but we'll see if I'm right when we come back after these words from a few of our sponsors. Tommy, on this beautiful fall day, would it be a good idea to go down to Shelley's for some lunch and some baseball playoff games? I think that would be a good spot for it. Always a good idea. If you're not a baseball fan, you can sit outside on their beautiful sidewalk seating area

and watch all the people sweating and grunting, walking by, missing out on a good time where you can go inside and later on watch the baseball games. Here's what else it is. It's also the beginning of the festive season. where people start throwing parties, you know, as Christmas approaches. And Shelley's back room is a great place to host parties. They could host groups of 10 to 250 people from cocktail receptions to sit-down dinners. They can make you a custom menu option to suit your needs and your budget, okay?

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We get four games today, four games tomorrow, and who knows, these are best of threes, maybe four games on Thursday as well. So in these first round, best of three wild card series matchups, the brewers are pretty sizable favorites over Arizona. Philly's a sizable favorite over Miami. Tampa is a favorite over Texas. and where's the Minnesota Toronto series? Yeah, that one looks like kind of a toss-up for the series.

Any upsets here? Of course, these things happen in Major League Baseball Playoff short series. But is there a team coming out of this best of three that you like to make noise the rest of the month? I like the Marlins. You do. I mean, I think, I like the Marlins against the Phillies. I think they've got some good young pitching. And they've got, I mean, the Phillies are the veteran team.

They've been there before. And normally, that typically helps a team in a playoff. But the Marlins might not be aware that they're not supposed to beat the Phillies yet. I kind of like the way the Marlins have been playing, and if I were to pick one upset, it would be the Marlins. It wouldn't surprise me if the Diamondbacks upset the Brewers as well. The other games, I would take the Twins and the raise in the other two, you know, wild cards. That would set up Tampa and Baltimore right in the next round.

That would be a hell of a best of five. By the way, the longest... Which would start on Saturday. Yeah, the longest... shot for the World Series odds at my bookie. The Marlins are the longest shot at plus $3,600, and then the Diamondbacks at plus $3,400 to win the World Series, not talking about winning this best of three. What's your World Series matchup and who wins it? World Series matchup? I'm going to say, it's hard not to pick the Braves. As much as I'd

like to pick the Dodgers, it's hard not to pick the Braves in this. And I'm going to pick the Braves and the Astros. Braves? I'd like to pick the Orioles, but, you know, the Astros act as if it's their birthright to go to the World Series. Well, they've been to a few of them here recently. Yeah. So, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Orioles wound up there as well.

But you've got the Braves over the Astros. Yes. I don't really have a strong feeling. I love wagering on baseball playoffs this time of year. Love it. I love taking underdogs. I love taking unders in these first games. Pretty much all the unders today are like seven and a half

with some explosive offensive teams because I guarantee you most sports books need unders on run totals here when people start betting baseball that haven't bet baseball all year long. I understand the greatness of the Braves. And, you know, then again, I really think Philadelphia offensively is so explosive. It would not surprise me if Philadelphia ends up back in the World Series. But I'll go with the Braves and the Rays as a World Series matchup with the Braves winning what would be, what their second world series in the last three years, right? Didn't they beat Houston a couple years ago? They beat Houston a couple years ago, right? In the final? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I wanted to real

quickly mention something that Jerry Jones said today. Jerry Jones talking as he does, as the owner on 105.3, the fan in Dallas, said that the game Sunday night against the 49ers is a measuring stick game. and it is the road to the Super Bowl. It runs through San Francisco. Now, the reason I picked this out is if you're the Eagles and you're an Eagles fan, they're the defending NFC champions. They're also the defending NFC East champs. They're also undefeated in the NFC right now,

along with the 49ers. But Jerry pointed to the 49ers in, said the road to the Super Bowl goes through them. I don't know if it was a shot at Philadelphia. I doubt it was. But I bet you Philadelphia fans took it as a shot. That is

a rivalry in our division. That's the big rivalry in our division. And right now, there's no close second. Philadelphia, Dallas is the rivalry in the NFC East. It pains me to say it. But for a long period of time, it's been that.

And it is right now in a situation where really nothing is close to it. That is a hell of a matchup for Sunday night football. Cowboys, 49ers. Big opportunity for the Cowboys to prove something. The 49ers, and I didn't talk a lot about other NFL on yesterday's show because it was all about the Washington game Sunday and Wade Cooley on the show.

If you missed it, Cooley, Wade in, he watched the game. So go back and listen to it. but Brock Purdy was 20 of 21 in the game against Arizona. You're not a Brock Purdy fan, are you? I'm not a worshipper at this point. I need to see a lot more, but I did like him at Iowa State, and he was one of those real gamers, and he had a lot of playing time. And I thought he played well.

Look, I'm not so sure at this point we shouldn't just say that if you can stand upright and chew gum simultaneously, that you can probably play some quarterback in Kyle Shanahan's system. They are just so good. They run it so well, and it just makes everything so easy for the quarterback. There are answers that are so easy for the quarterback in that system. But I can't deny that he's played at a high level. I mean, you know, so far this year, five touchdowns, no picks, a thousand yards, a 72.3% completion percentage. I mean, he's playing at a very high level. His QBR for the season's 84.6. Now, let's say, now, I mean, this situation, let's say Brock Purdy leads him to a Super Bowl title.

then this situation doesn't come up. But anything short of that, if Kirk Cousins becomes available to Kyle, does he make that move? No, I've been saying this for a while now. You know, obviously there was a time where he would have begged, borrowed, and steeled and tried to do that, and Washington wouldn't trade him. But Kirk, you know, people forget this. He's 35 years old. I know, I know. You know, and yes, he's fit and he's kept himself in shape.

a game. I understand that. He never misses the game. But it's very possible, even though he's had a great start to the season, that his best football is going to start being behind him. And Tommy, the truth is, this game is really quickly moving away from pocket passing quarterbacks that aren't mobile. Brock Purdy can move, you know? And I don't know that that would be. Now, if Brock Purdy ends up playing poorly and the 49ers, you know, lose in the first round, I think that's a possibility. But there will be other possibilities too. I think the Kirk to San Francisco, the Kirk to the Jets, the Kirk to any of these places, this is a conversation that's more applicable last year or the year before when he's 32, 33, 30, you know, he turns 36 before

next season starts. And it doesn't mean that he didn't have another two or three years with good football left. But I don't know. I've watched a little bit of him this year. I mean, he was, I think he was leading the league in passing yardage before last weekend. He looks a little bit slower physically to me when he has moved. But anyway, I wanted to end the show with Russ Francis passed away. Am I right? Were you a big fan of Russ Francis? I know you are of John Mackey. What about Russ Francis? I mean, I recognize how great he was when he played.

And he was, the nickname All-World, I think, started with Russ Francis because he was so talented. He was so quick. He could catch anything. He was so smart. But it's interesting. The knock on him was that he was a little bit too smart.

He had a lot of different interests besides football. Right. you know and you know there's his mentality in the game that if you know you live breathe and die with football russ francis you know had a lot of varied interest he was a great tight end uh you know not in the hall fame probably not a hall of famer but probably had hall of fame talent um yeah he's not a hall of famer uh he was a three-time pro bowl player um two-time all pro uh remember he won a Super Bowl with the 49ers in 84. He was

a part of that team with Joe Montana at quarterback. I just, for whatever reason, first of all, he died, by the way, in a plane crash in Lake Placid New York. He also lives in Cody, Wyoming. And when Cooley's on tomorrow, I'll ask him if he knew

Russ Francis. I don't remember him ever mentioning Russ Francis, but Cody's right next to Cooley's town, which is Powell, Wyoming, where he lives. But I just remember those New England teams for some reason. Like Steve Grogan

and Sam... They were competitive. Oh yeah. The AFC with the Steelers, the Raiders, the Oilers, the Colts with Bert Jones, and Steve Grogan with the Patriots, they were very competitive. Well, they lost that very controversial

playoff game in Oakland in the 76 season when they went 11 and 3. But yeah, they had, They had great players. They had great teams. And I just remember those teams. For whatever reason, I kind of liked the Patriots from back then.

They had a run during those years with, it was Chuck Fairbanks who coached them, Tommy. Yes. They had a run where they were in the playoffs like, I think, three or four times in a five-year period. And they just couldn't get over the hump in the postseason. but anyway. Okay. Anything else? That's it, boss.

That's it for the day. Back tomorrow with a coolly film breakdown.