The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley & Dexter Manley

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Cooley joined Kevin to talk Greg Roman as a potential OC candidate in Washington and to preview/pick the four weekend NFL Divisional Playoff games. The greatest pass rusher of the 1980's, Dexter Manley, jumped on with Kevin to talk about the Redskins' 31-17 NFC Championship win over the Cowboys which happened 40 years ago this coming Sunday. Kevin opened the show with quick thoughts on Maryland's win last night over Michigan, the latest on the Commanders' OC possibilities, and had 3 "Smell Test" playoff picks.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Coolie will join me on the show in the next segment. We will talk about Washington's offensive coordinator search. By the way, I'm not going to mention to him, Eric B. Enemy.

There are some stories out there, a few of them, that Eric Bianami's name has been linked to Washington. Although no reports from super credible sources at this point that we're going to, Washington is requested to interview Eric B. Enemy for their offensive coordinator spot. But I recorded Cooley earlier before I saw this. But I am going to ask him about what he thinks about Greg Roman, the Baltimore offensive coordinator who stepped down yesterday. And I think Cooley's answer will be interesting to all of you. We'll also preview all four of the divisional round games. And then in the final segment today, I'm going to go back four. 40 years ago this weekend to what I believe is the most memorable game in franchise history,

the January 22nd, 1983 NFC championship win over the Cowboys at RFK Stadium that propelled the team to Super Bowl 17 and their first Super Bowl win, which would come a week later. And we'll talk about that game next week. But a special guest will join me to discuss that game 40 years ago this upcoming Sunday. day and that special guest will be Dexter Manly. I am looking forward to that. I did before we get into some football conversation, including my smell test here in the opening segment. I wanted to mention that I thought Maryland's win last night, and I talked about it yesterday. Actually, I didn't talk about it yesterday on the podcast because we didn't do a podcast yesterday, but I did talk about it

on the radio show yesterday. Maryland somehow was favored over Michigan last night, just two weeks after being annihilated by the Wolverines in Ann Arbor by 35 points. Yes, I had Maryland last night for the maximum allowed, and they beat Michigan at XFennity Center, 64 to 58. A really good win for them. They played well. They really came out with an urgent.

see that you had to have. I mean, after getting your ass kicked the way they did on New Year's Day at Michigan. In that game, they trailed 17-0, 33-7, 44-13-13 at halftime before losing 81-46, and then they were favored last night. Home courts matter in college basketball, and rematches matter too, especially when the team that lost big is capable of a lot more. And Maryland came out last night, and I give Kevin Willard a lot of credit. They were ready to play.

They gave up some big-time threes in the first half out of that two-three zone, but they really buttoned it up second half defensively. And Jemir Young was outstanding again. Jemir Young's last three games now for Maryland. He had 30 against Ohio State in the win on January 8th. By the way, he had 11 rebounds in that game as well. had 20 in the loss at Iowa on Sunday and had 26 last night. By the way, that's 76 points in three games and only two made three-point shots.

I mean, it's all coming at the free throw line and on twos. He was 0 for five last night behind the arc. He can shoot the three, but he's two for his last 14, even though he is killing it from a scoring standpoint the last three. He's averaging 16 a game for the Terps leading them in scoring. That's a bit of a surprise. I mean, I certainly thought that Dante Scott or maybe Hekeem Hart would lead them in scoring. But without Jamir Young, this team, which is now 12 and 6, 3 and 4, and a crazy Big 10. Without Jamir Young, this team would have no chance. Big win for the Terps last night. They got a, by the way, a surprising performance.

with Emmerlin, their backup center for most of the year being out with an injured ankle. Caleb Swanton Roger, 611 freshman, 220 pounds out of Calgary, Alberta, number 35 last night, wearing that protective broken nose gear. He came in and gave them a solid, solid seven minutes, had a big-time slam dunk over Hunter Dickinson, who was really good in the game, by the way, and his first trip in front of a crowd, not a great crowd last night with the students on break, but since the dust up with Dickinson and Turgeon

from a couple of years ago during the pandemic and then that year in the Big Ten tournament, last year they only played at Michigan, so this was Dickinson's first trip back to college park. Michigan may have been a little bit disappointed that Maryland fans didn't, you know, get fired up for Michigan. Well, they stink. They're not very good.

this year. They were 10 and 6 or 10 and 7 coming in, something like that. And even though they had beaten Maryland and played well recently, it's not a great Michigan team this year. But it was a big win for Maryland. And Swant and Roger had this dunk over Dickinson in the game that was outstanding. But love the way they played last night. Love the way they defended in the second half. Love the way they rebounded, especially on the offensive glass. They had a stretch of turnovers there in the second half that hurt them, but they only had six for the game, which is outstanding for them. And they get a big win and a big cover also before they head to third-ranked Purdue on Sunday, which will not be easy at all. All right, a little bit of

update on where Washington is right now in the O.C. search. We know that Shermer, Zampezi, and Charles London have all been interviewed. Eric Studsville, the Miami assistant head coach and running backs coach, is scheduled to be interviewed. And now Thomas Brown, the Rams assistant head coach and the tight ends coach, is going to interview as well, according to reports. I've seen many of the different local beat reporters report that Studsville and Thomas Brown will be the next O.C.

see candidates to interview both of those expected to take place next week. Greg Roman leaving Baltimore is an interesting, very intriguing. I mentioned him. You know, after the Rivera and Martin Mayhew press conference when they emphasized heavy run over pass, I'm like, look, if you're going to do it, do it. If you're going to do this, go all in. Greg Roman, there was conversation at the time that he may not survive. Go get Greg Roman, draft Anthony Richardson out of Florida, and let's go full dual threat quarterback running attack. May not thrill Terry McLaren and John Dotson and some others, but let's go for it, especially if you're talking budget constraints as this ownership situation continues to evolve. So I like Anthony Richardson. I know. I know a lot of people don't love him. I think he's going to be gone before 16 anyway. At least that's

the discussion here over the last week or so as everybody really starts to focus in on the quarterbacks in the draft. And we'll have plenty of time to do that. I like Richardson. He's 64. He's 2.30. He can run 4-3-4, and he's a great running quarterback with a big time arm. I don't love his mechanics. I think it leads to inaccuracy. There's some throws that you watch when he's at Florida that are really ugly. But if you want to go all in, you know, you're going 60, 40 run to pass, and that's going to be your philosophy and your personality and you, you know, want the quarterback to be a part of that and you're not so sure that Sam Hal is that guy and you're looking for the next Lamar Jackson, you know, Anthony Richardson

would fit that bill. I mean, he is. a bigger, taller version of Lamar Jackson. And he's got a strong arm as well like Lamar Jackson. Again, not sure Terry and Johan would love it. But anyway, before I get to my smell test to finish up this first segment of the show, I did want to mention something that a friend of mine mentioned to me. And he's been involved in some of these big, big transactions, not necessarily in sports. By the way, Neil and Rockville also, I think, mentioned this to me as well.

The report the other day from front office sports about Snyder selling a controlling stake, that the bidders have been told that he is selling a majority stake, a controlling stake. But leaving open the possibility that the Snyders may still remain as minority shareholders. This friend of mine said, look, there are tax benefits potentially for the Snyders to put the remaining minority share that they don't sell into a trust in their kids' names. There is also the idea that if they still owned, let's just say 30% of a $7 billion valuation. So they still own $2.1 billion worth of stock in the franchise, that that $2.1 billion is going to be worth a lot more five years from now, 10 years from now as NFL values continue to go up.

So he said there could be tax benefits to still remaining a minority shareholder, especially if they deal with it and sort of a trust in their kids' names. There's obviously the opportunity to remain an equity stakeholder in an NFL team where the values continue to go up. And then he pointed out this, and I thought this was very interesting. For the purchaser of the team, if you only purchase, let's just say, 70% of the team at 7 billion in valuation. So you pay $4.9 billion. Well, that means that there's $2.1 billion that you're not putting down on the sale of the team that could then be used

for a new stadium. That the new owner may actually prefer purchasing, you know, a controlling stake, a majority stake, but not 100% of the team at, say, a $7 billion valuation, and it may come in less than that. I'm just trying to make the math easy. So, you know, to put $4.9 billion into the team, to control it, and then to have $2.1 billion to go towards the new stadium, wherever that gets built, and with whatever public financing there is or isn't for that project may be beneficial for the buyer. I thought that was an interesting way to kind of consider that. I did, you know, kind of discuss perhaps the tax benefits. Look, I don't really want the Snyder's involved at all. I would hope that the new owner would recognize that there is kind of a guilt by association

thing here and that the new owner would have to distance himself completely from the Snyders, even if they remained minority shareholders, that part of the, the, the, the, the, the, The benefit, part of the allure of buying this team is that you're not going to be the Snyders and people are going to flock back to a team that's not owned by Dan Snyder. Hopefully there would be some recognition so that if they were minority shareholders, they would have to be very silent minority shareholders. Anyway, all right, let's get to my smell test here for the NFL divisional playoff games. looks where the John Q public is putting their cash and does the opposite.

It's time for the smell test. The smell test is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And they'll double your first deposit all the way up to $1,000. Take the free money, guys. If you're betting the playoffs with somebody else or if you're betting them for the first time, use MyBooky.

Take the free money. It's a safe place to bet. fair point spreads, fair money lines, fair prop bet numbers, and you get paid. And by the way, the pricing is fair. You're not going to see a game in which you're betting aside with a number with anything other than a minus 110 behind it. You lose, you lose minus 110. You're not paying minus 115 or minus 120 like some of these newer places are charging. All right, before I get to my smell test picks. Last week, five underdogs one favorite in the six super wildcard games. The only favorite to cover was San Francisco. Of course, I was on Seattle. And the overs were five to one as well.

And the only game that stayed under was the Monday night game with the four missed PATs, which would have, just making one of them would have put the game over and you would have had six overs and zero unders. Typically, when you see that many overs covering, it's a big weekend for the public. But as I've been telling you all year long, there were so many unders this year. The under was an outright major winner for most books this year. And the scoring was down this year. So the public kind of thought they had wised up a little bit. And they went under on some of the games last weekend, including the game that I went over on, which was Baltimore, Cincinnati. and that game did go over.

Two and two last weekend. I had Seattle, I had Minnesota, but then I had Baltimore, and I had the Baltimore Cincinnati over. I've got three smell test picks. Let me just mention that I don't have a smell test pick on the first game tomorrow, Jacksonville, Kansas City. But I do give Jacksonville a chance to cover in this game.

I really do. That number's up to nine now at my bookie. I'd give a lean towards Jacksonville plus the nine. I think I'm going to play the Jags plus the nine in that one. But that's not an official smell test pick. The first one comes tomorrow night. Giants at Eagles, the public is all over the Giants. It's a recent memory thing.

They saw a very impressive Daniel Jones, a very impressive giant offense on Sunday in Minneapolis. They were playing the worst defense in the NFL. They're not playing that tomorrow night. The line is seven and a half. They are begging you to take the Giants. Now, typically what I've done during the regular season is I have given myself the benefit this year of buying the key half points on numbers like three, seven, ten, fourteen, etc. But I don't see any sevens out there.

I only see seven and a halves. So I'm going to buy the half point, but for the purposes of the smell test pick, Eagles minus seven and a half is the first selection. I really think Philadelphia is going to have a big game. I think A.J. Brown will have a big game. I think the Giants will find this defense tougher to just march up and down the field like they did last week to the tune of 446 yards and 31 points. I don't see that. They made eight of their first nine third down conversions. They're not going to do that against Philadelphia this week.

I think the Eagles are rested. A big key to this game, obviously, is Jalen Hertz being 100%. But I like the Eagles to roll. All right, Sunday. First game of the day, Cincinnati Buffalo 3 p.m. weather could be a factor, could be some rain, some snow. Not a lot of it, I don't think. Buffalo's laying five and a half, the public likes Cincinnati. Remember, the last time we saw these two teams, Cincinnati was up seven three. The Bengals were driving before the Damar Hamlin incident. And it's phenomenal. He apparently is now at the facility almost every day. Miracle.

Buffalo's laying five and a half. The public views that as too many. They're taking Cincinnati. I think Cincinnati got beat up in that Baltimore game. I like Buffalo laying the five and a half. I think this is the game I feel the most confident about. I also like in this game the under because a lot of people going over, remember with the way that game started,

both teams kind of going up and down the field in that Monday night game a few weeks ago. The totals at 49. The public is on the over in a big way in this game. I'll take under the 49 Bills Bengals. Now, I've been talking all week that I was going to like the Cowboys and probably give them out in the smell test. I'm not. That lines back up to four. It came all the way down to three, so there's some sharp money buying that minus three with the 49ers. The public's on the Niners. I may play Dallas personally. I'd lean Dallas a little bit plus the four, but it's not an official pick. So the three smell test picks for the weekend, Eagles laying the seven and a half, the bills laying the five and a half, and under Cincinnati Buffalo, under the 49 in that game. All right, Cooley next on Greg Roman, and we'll preview all four of these games in more detail. right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, Coolie's with me. He has a short window here, so we're going to cover a bunch of things real quickly here on this Friday before divisional round playoff weekend. Before we get to the four games, Washington in OC search mode, as we talked about, they fired Scott Turner. They have interviewed so far as the recording of this podcast is happening,

Pat Shermer, former head coach in New York, the former OC in Denver. He's been an OC in Minnesota, the year that Case Keenham was the quarterback, and they went to the NFC championship game. They have interviewed Ken Zampeze, who is on their staff already as the QB's coach. They are interviewing or have interviewed Charles London. He's a quarterback's coach in Atlanta. But the guy that I want to ask you about is a guy that became available yesterday. Greg Roman stepped down as the offensive coordinator in Baltimore. The Greg Roman who had Alex Smith, had Colin Kaepernick, has had Lamar Jackson, has been a running game, a run-first coach, which is what Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew said last week.

They want to be a run-first team. What do you think about Washington pursuing Greg Roman if they do? If you want to be a run-based team, I think Greg Roman is as good. as a gets as a coordinator in the league, what he did over the last few years of Baltimore and before that. His skill set in getting a team to run the ball creatively and also be able to throw the ball creatively and do some things like that are about as good as I've seen in the league. I've had a chance to get to know Greg Roman in different situations.

Not really well, but he's a great guy. He's a terrific coach. I'm sure that would be number one of my list. is Greg Roman. He's going to be coveted by more teams in the league as coaches get hired, and that's going to be a tough get. You know, you look at it, Kevin, it's like, Greg Roman, unless he didn't want to be a head coach,

potentially isn't that far from being head coach. I mean, maybe if you're sitting there saying this ownership and this organization is going to be in place, and if Ron didn't make it through the year, but the offense is great, if we didn't win, maybe Greg Roman, but the next set coach. But I just don't think Greg Roman going to Washington

with the potential of being fired in the next year. And I'm not saying that's going to happen. They can win. Greg Roman could go to Washington, and they could win 10, 11, 12 games, and things could completely change, and the narrative could completely change. But I think that's a tough hire.

Also, Greg Roman's not going to be cheap. and I don't know if anyone there cares about spending money or not. But I would love that hire. I would hire Greg Roman anywhere. They don't sound like a Dr. Seuss book. What did you say? Here, there, anyway. I sound like a Dr. Seuss book.

Why hasn't he all of these years as a successful offensive coordinator? Listen to where his rush offenses have ranked in total yards. at the end of each season. All right, this is pretty impressive in terms of yards. Second this year in Baltimore, third last year in Baltimore. First in 2020 in Baltimore. First in 2019 in Baltimore. First in 2016 in Buffalo.

I think that was Tyrod Taylor. 2015 in Buffalo first. 2014 in San Francisco, fourth. 2013, third. 2012, fourth. And in 2011 with Alex Smith as the full-time starter, they were eighth. He has never been lower than eighth in rushing offense as an offensive coordinator. And every year, but that first year is an OC in 2011, he's had a top

five rush offense. So why hasn't he become a head coach? Probably exactly what you just said. Rushing the ball isn't cool. Cliffs Kingsbury is the best passing coordinator in college football for whatever year. He's hired as a head coach. He was. He was just an OC in college football. Was he the head coach in Oklahoma? No, Texas Tech. Texas Tech. Texas Tech.

He was the head coach. He was a coordinator when he came out. He was the head coach at Texas Tech. Right? Wait, wait. Am I blanking here? He had been a, I know he had been a college head coach, but it's not important. He was the head coach.

He had been the head coach at Texas Tech for. several years. But still, it's a college head coach you can throw the ball. Right. And there we go. We're fine.

Rushing the ball just seems to be not cool. You want to be able to throw the ball in the NFL and that seems to be what everyone wants.

And the other thing you look at is he's first in rushing offense all the years that you listed off and you're looking at Super Bowl. You know,

how many do you, how many was Greg Roman a part of? It might have been a couple. No. It wasn't Buffalo. It wasn't in Baltimore. No, it was 2012 in San Francisco when they lost to Baltimore.

That's it. That's the only Super Bowl. And that's the last time anywhere in the top five? Well, probably not. But you get the point. No, I know what you're saying. We've seen some rush-first teams in the Super Bowl, but go ahead. Yeah, no, you have some, there are some rush-first teams.

But with Greg Roman. And by the way, it's, it's a lot. It's hard to even stereotype Greg Roman in that respect. I don't want to do that. He's really good at it, and so Rush First Team's hiring. Yeah. But I don't even know if it's fair to say Greg Roman is a Rush-only type of guy or run-offence type of guy.

Greg Roman, I'm sure, can come up with a pretty good plan to throw the football. Very good at formations. He's very good at creating motion. He's very good at creating misdirection and priest. not problems. All that ties into throwing the football as well. I mean, I think you have to have all that stuff. So I don't even feel like what we're doing is fair.

It's just that's where he's been, and that's the need he's had. And it's interesting because I do, you and I both understand that Washington wants to be a rest first offense. And it's awesome, and it's a great ideal. But what if you end up getting a better quarterback and something falls into your lap? Or what if you get halfway through the season and now howls really throwing the ball around, then you're not a rush to all the offense.

And they have weapons that reason. I mean, you have two. Well, that was my next question. Terry McClure is one of the better receivers in the league. And John Dotson, it very well could be one of the better receivers in the league next year or in the next couple years. And you have Curtis Samuel, and you have Antonio Gibson, who I think if you want to be at progobal more type of team,

could be on the field as one of your 11 a lot. So, I mean, you make the argument in a bunch of different ways. You can make the argument that says we want to be a rush first team. And you can say we want Robinson and Antonio Gibson both in the backfield. Curtis Samuel can come in the backfield. We can go fly sweepst up with Terry and John and Johan's a deep threat. He's our big-time deep threat guy. Terry's our third-down guy.

There's a lot of directions they could go with it. I know. But I just think it's hard to. pigeonhole yourself into, we want to be a rush-off. Well, this is what they're saying. If you don't even know what you are. Yeah, this is what they said. And, you know, we all have kind of understood here in recent years that, you know, they say one thing one week, and then a few weeks later, they say something else. And obviously all of their last season, off-season activity did not reflect a team that was

philosophically in favor of running at, you know, a 65-35 or 60-40 clip. By the way, Robert Griffin the third, our favorites, you know, tweeter, um, uh, uh, tweeted out the following yesterday. Greg Roman may be the greatest run game tactician I have ever been around at the NFL level. Running backs and tight ends love his system because they eat. Wide receivers absolutely hate it. That's why free agent wide receivers didn't want to go to or stay in Baltimore. It was never about Lamar Jackson.

It's true, you know, Hollywood Brown won it out. They never could attract wide receivers. Greg Roman in San Francisco, the year that he had Alex Smith in 2011. He had Vernon Davis on that team. Crab Tree? Crab Tree on those teams. And by the way, I was looking at the 2011. His first season is an O.C. with Alex Smith.

They threw the ball pretty much. They ran it more with Frank Gore, but they threw the ball a lot. It was with Kaepernick, where he really, in midway through that 2012 season, started running dual-threat quarterback stuff. and kind of took it from what Seattle and Washington were doing, you know, when Kaepernick came in halfway through that season. But I think one of the quandaries that Rivera and Mayhew are going to have is by announcing the way they did so emphatically, we are philosophically a heavy run-to-pass ratio team. Well, what does that mean for Terry McLorn, who did make a Pro Bowl this year, but didn't even make the top nine in voting in all pro voting because he only had six. 77 catches. You know, you just drafted Johan Dotson.

So personally, I wouldn't mind if Greg Roben came here and Sam Howe with his running ability and they played it that way because I don't think they're going to get a quarterback that they can really rely on. And maybe Sam Howe will be that guy too. Maybe he'll be even better than Lamar Jackson throwing the football and they'll be able to do a lot more. But anyway, you would say yes to Greg Roman. I would say yes to Greg Roman.

What do you think about Pat Shermer? Anything? Any thoughts? Quickly? It's interesting because I think you've watched a couple of years. Before we started this, you talked about the year in Minnesota with Case Keenham, and I think Pat Shermer's a good coach. Where is Pat Shermer? Well, he right now, I don't think is anywhere. I think this year was his year off after Fangio guys.

got fired and Hackett got hired in Denver. He was the O.C. in Denver for Fangio in 20 and 21. He did not coach this year. He didn't coach this year. No, it's interesting. Like those guys that have been a head coach and have been an O.C. And then have been a head coach and then have gone back to be an O.C. The administrative stuff, to me, is where people fell at the head coach.

and the culture and the dynamic and the direction of your team is where they fell as the head coach. But offensive coordinator, for the most part, in the NFL building, is going to run the day for the offense. They are going to run the installation meetings. They are basically the head coach of the offense. You really, in a lot of ways, you do look, I look at the NFL team, and a lot of college teams as two parts. not that they don't do some things together, but no one on offense knows what anyone on the defense is doing.

The time's not really there. So you have an offensive coordinator running a team. To me, it's sometimes interesting when people fell as an O.C. I think we mentioned this with Bowles the other day. I thought Bowles just doesn't have the time as a head coach to be the D.C. And I know they had a couple good defenses in New York, but it's not the same. the year he was in Arizona

and then the last couple years in Tampa defense was way different when he wasn't the head coach. You mean when he was the head coach? When Ariens was the head coach, it was much better with Bulls as a defensive coordinator. Almost like when Josh McDaniels

left for a year to Denver out of New England, he's much better as an offensive coordinator than he has his head coach and maybe you'll figure it out. in Las Vegas. But for me, some of these guys, it's just they need a little bit more time

or they don't want to manage the entire thing. And back to Greg Roman, maybe part of why he's not a head coach is because Greg Roman's just going to say, like, I like coaching offense. I still get my guys, I still get to run the system the way I run the system, and I still get to do all the insulation, and I don't want to deal with the headache. It's not like it's bad

money. Right. Greg Roman's probably $3 million, $4 million a year. Three, three, three, probably two and a half three. I don't know. I'm sure you got, I'll bet you can look it up, but he's over two.

I'm looking it up. So it's just some of those guys have that in them to be that great administrator and that great leader, and some of them have it in them to really ruin them. There you go. I think that's where I started. Bring a money for an OCE.

Let's talk playoff games. Jags Chiefs is the first game tomorrow at Arrowhead, Kansas City's a nine-point favorite Jacksonville with that comeback. Do you give Jacksonville a chance? Funny because I like Jacksonville a lot against Los Angeles, but I would have liked Los Angeles a lot more against Kansas City. I don't want to take anything away from what, for momentum, though. And they built momentum through the end of the season.

obviously started slow against Los Angeles with four picks and turnovers and down 27 points, but they still found a way to build on what they had in that momentum and rally. But all that said, no, I don't give them a chance. No. I think that Kansas City's too much. I think it's overwhelming, and the difference is Andy Reid's a better coach, and if they are to get up 14 or 21 points, they won't stop. They won't turn the ball over.

They'll continue to score, and I don't think Jacksonville can stop. Remember last year, and I kind of felt this way this year as well, but last year in particular when the Chiefs were playing some close games early on and they lost some games, they got, you know, and I said to you, Mahomes looks bored. There are times even this year, and by the way, they didn't, you know, they lost an AFC title game at home last year after that amazing game against Buffalo. I think this year at times he looks kind of bored. They have played ridiculously close games against inferior opponents.

They could have lost to Houston very easily. They went to overtime against them. They had two nail biters against Denver. That's just in the last month and really the last month, month and a half of the season. I give Jacksonville a chance because I think Kansas City defensively isn't great. I mean, Chris Jones is outstanding. and I think that Mahomes might give up the ball once or twice. And by the way, I think Jacksonville's got some real talent on defense.

I mean, I think they've got some real playmakers in that, in Josh Allen, and that guy, Ola Khan, in Trayvon Walker, and Rayshon Jenkins. I know they've given up a lot of points, but I think they make a lot of plays, too. I could see Jacksonville keeping this close. I didn't give them out as a smell test pick in the open. I wouldn't be surprised to see it fairly close. It's a playoff, so you're not going to be surprised to see anything. I just think with the extra week and it's the playoffs,

I don't see Mahomes board. And the other side of it is, I think some of the Josh Allen spark from this year, Mahomes is Mahomes, but it's always fun when you have somebody to push you. And I think he's, I have a point to prove to make sure it's him. and not Alan. Yeah. All right, Giants' Eagles tomorrow night. The Eagles are seven and a half-point favorites.

The way the Giants have been playing, that line almost stinks to me. You would think the Giants, they would only be five or four-point favorites for some reason. I feel that I feel that way. Yes. And I want to say that I would give the Giants a chance. But the Giants have had an uphill battle. And honestly, have played good football throughout the air tables. really good coach. I think they are a building program.

But you give the Eagles the buy week, you give a hurts another week off to rest to get healthy, and I just think that the Eagles are going to be too much for them. Yeah. Again, like, and the spread, the line stinks too. Like, I would be Eagles all the way on that line. You've become a good student. I gave out the Eagles. The Eagles are a smell test pick.

That line's too high. The public loves the Giants. And here's what I think is crucial. Obviously, Jalen Hertz has to be Jalen Hertz. But the Giants don't have anybody to match up with Devante Smith, to match up with A.J. Brown in particular. And I know that they did a nice job on Justin Jefferson, but the truth is Minnesota moved the ball up and down the field against the Giants. Well, they had to triple.

They had to double and triple Jefferson. Yeah, and the real issue was that they faced the worst defense in the NFL, and Minnesota's defense at Donitel got fired. yesterday, rightly so. And the Eagles are going to be able to disrupt the Giants offensively. I think this has, I actually really think the Giants, like you said, and I agree with you, and I said this, they're on the rise. They're well-coached, and they've got a lot of cap space.

They are definitely on the rise. But I think tomorrow night is the Eagles really looking like the Eagles have at various times. Let's not forget when they last played in a real game, they beat the Giants 48 to 22. I mean, the Giants could not stop them. I like the Eagles. Right. Big tomorrow night as well.

Sunday. It's not the resumption, okay, of the Damar Hamlin game, but it's the Bengals at the Bills. The Bengals, you know, are a little bit upset that this game's in Buffalo and not a neutral field like they will do with Buffalo in Kansas City next week. If Buffalo wins. But Buffalo is a five and a half point favorite over Cincinnati. Cincinnati. How do you see this one?

I think it goes about that way. I think this stays probably a fairly close game. The Bengals really are a team that plays pretty good defense, and that's without talking about their offense in Burrough. But Allen's just so hard to stop, and the bills are going to find a way to score. He finds ways to score that offense with Diggs, and they added Beasley throughout the season,

he's been really helpful, although he contributed to a big pick last week. Yeah. And Singletary and the Bush is another guy. And they don't run the ball much for those guys contribute. And I like the tight-in-dalt knocks. As soon as Alan can't really distribute, then he becomes a runner, and then it changes the dynamic, and it's just tough to stop. And then you flip it, and Buffalo has given up some points,

but still, that is an extremely talented defense. And think of the games that Bengals have struggled in their loss this year, It's the big-time pressure, and the offensive line really isn't great. And banged up. And if he's not in perfect timing and rhythm, the bills are going to start getting home. If the bills get a lead, they're going to start building on the league. It's going to be tough because the Bengals can't stay balanced.

I love Burrow. I mean, Chase is unbelievable. Higgins is a phenomenal play. They're a talented team. I just think Buffalo is coming out on top of this one. I gave Buffalo out minus the five and a half. I think Cincinnati looked beat up in that Baltimore game. I think Baltimore, when you play Baltimore a week later,

it's not, you know, you're banged up. And they're injured along the offensive line, even if those guys play, I think if that game had gone to overtime last week, I think Baltimore would have won. By the way, did we talk about this? Harbaugh probably with his analytics people would have gone for two there if they had scored at the end.

I think the absolute right thing to do, given how their defense was dominating, would have been to kick the extra point. Did we talk about that? I forget on Monday. We didn't talk about it. I don't know what he would have done there. It's interesting if you want to continue to play, if he's going to continue to play analytics in that fashion into the playoffs. It's got to be about context.

Tyler Huntley at the end of the first year, first half of that game, first and goal through three ground balls. They weren't going to, the chance of them converting a two-pointer to win the game to me would have been much less than 50%. And the chance that they would have had in overtime with the way their defense was playing and the way they were running the ball,

they would have had a better than 50-50 chance to win the game in overtime. That's the way I would agree with you. And it's tough in the play. It's like I'm fine playing the analytics with blackjack all the way up to about $100 bat. And then when it starts to get to $200, $400, I'm like, I'm going with my gut. Really?

You won't even, your bet size, dictate a blackjack strategy for you? Blackjack not all and it doesn't change the way I'm still hitting a 16 but it's like I got $400 on the table and here's an 11 boom

and I'm looking at an 8 on the other side you should double that 11 right? Of course. It's 400 bucks I'm like I'm already I'm like quad my bet and I am doubled just give a card. No no no no no no no no no no No, no, you've got to double down.

My God. The bet size doesn't change blackjack strategy. It changes the way you feel about hitting 16 against a 10. I understand that, but it doesn't. It shouldn't change. The next card, whether I double down or not, the next card, the next card. I'm not changing the card. Yeah, but doubling down is what gives you.

Although you can change it, although you can change it when you have an 11, and you don't double it down, and here comes an 8. You're like, I didn't double it down. Now we're sitting at 12. Boom, 10, bust. Dealer turns over a 6. Yeah, you still won the hand.

He's got 14. And then he turns over the 6. He's got 14. And all of a sudden the 7 comes out and everyone at the table. Like if you had doubled, he would have taken the 10 after the 14 and we would have all won. Well, no, you were still only taking one card in the double. You're still only taking one card in the double. No.

If you didn't double. Oh, if you didn't double. Well, you're taking an ace. and then you're taking a 10 and then you're busting, but you're taking the deal with 10 who would have busted. I see what you're saying. Yeah, because if you did, doubling down, you get the one card.

But so what are you saying that you, that's right, you took the second card. Understand. Now I'm saying, I got it. I got it. Bottom line is though, Blackjack strategy is Blackjack strategy. And your bet size

shouldn't change that. Well, football strategy should be football strategy. The point is really, no, but it's different. It's different. It's much different. I understand. I got one more game because I've got to get going.

Cowboys 49ers. So I like the way the Cowboys played last week, but I think Tampa played like dog crap, and I think Tampa really was done at the end of the year. Dallas obviously much better than they played against Washington the week before, but they say, that this one we talked after the game, I said, I think that game had no bearing.

I think they treated it as third preseason game. That said, I do think Dallas can create pressure on Purdy. I do think that they can cut problems with San Francisco's offense. That defense is unbelievable, but I think Kyle will fight the way to get pretty comfortable early to get the ball out of his hands. And I just don't see Dallas as offense being dominant against that San Francisco defense. You didn't say what the line was in this game, but I like the 49ers, whatever it is in this game. They're up to four. They were down to three.

I think it's short. I like Dallas. I didn't give them out, but I think Dallas is actually the right side here. I think this will be a really close game. I'm looking forward to that game. Thank you for doing this. Enjoy your trip. I'll talk to you on Monday.

Have a good weekend. Up next, we look back 40 years ago Sunday to the most memorable game, in my opinion, in franchise history. And to help us do that, the great Dexter Manly. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This last segment of the show is presented by Window Nation. it's home show season and Window Nation is bringing the home show savings to you. Get 0% financing for 60 months. That's five years, no interest. Plus, buy to get too free.

So you're paying half price on the windows. Go towindonation.com slash home show. Try their free virtual visualizer. You just upload a picture of your home and you can view hundreds of their window options on your home to see what they would look like. Call 86690 Nation. Go to windonation.com slash home show. Mention my name. You'll get a free estimate, and you can take advantage of their big time savings. Coming up here shortly, I'm very much looking forward to talking to Dexter Manley. Why am I talking to Dexter Manley?

This happened 40 years ago this Sunday. Tony Hill comes out wide to the right, Pearson and Johnson wide to the left. Still down and hurting. Second quarter, Dexter Manley knocks out Danny White. Gary Hoga booms, the backup quarterback. 40 years ago this Sunday, Washington beat the Cowboys in the NFC title game. For me, the most memorable game in franchise history. I know that three weeks ago we did with Billy Kilmer, a 50-year look back to the 72 championship game win over the Cowboys.

that is right up there among the greatest wins in franchise history. For me, the 82 season, the strike shortened season, where the skins went 8 and 1, lost to the Cowboys in the regular season at home, then went through the postseason beating Detroit, then Minnesota, and then getting to host the Cowboys on January 22nd, 1983, 40 years ago this Sunday. That game, that day, is the most memorable day for me. as a sports fan of all of my favorite teams in this town. I'll never forget that day.

I'll never forget going to the stadium that day, getting there early that day, the crowd being in their seats 45 minutes before kickoff, chanting, we want Dallas. There was a bloodthirst, a noise level, a raucousness that I've never, ever been a part of as a fan in any stadium or any arena that matches that day 40 years ago. I can't believe that it was 40 years ago.

Washington went into that game. They were an underdog. They were a two-point underdog to the Cowboys. The Cowboys had beaten the week before the Packers, 37 to 26. Washington had beaten Minnesota 21 to 7. At the end of the Minnesota game, the game in which John Riggins took a bow after rushing 37 times for 185 yards. Washington won that game 21-7.

That was the beginning of the We Want Dallas chant. The next day the Packers and the Cowboys played, and Washington fans wanted a rematch with their arch rival. They got it, and the build-up to this game in the week before was like none other. The city was at a standstill. Everywhere you went, there were banners hanging off buildings. There were flags flying from cars. The city was fired up.

Interestingly, it was a cold, cloudy, gray, typical RFK late season game. There was a forecast for four inches of snow to fall beginning right before the game and during the game. But it never materialized. Meteorology was not in 1983 what it is today. It never materialized. It was a cold, cloudy, gray day. The snow came at the very end of the game, and that was it. And I don't think actually we ever got the big snowstorm that they were forecasting.

But the game itself, I mean, right from the jump, I mean, the crowd was beside itself chanting, we want Dallas. I've heard Tony Dorset say and other Cowboys talk about that day. Dorset, in particular, many years ago, said, we knew when we walked up that tunnel and onto the field for warm-ups. It was going to be a crowd in an atmosphere unlike any other. They always talked the Cowboys did about RFK and what it was like to play at RFK as the visiting team. But that day was special. The Cowboys scored first in the game on a Raphael Septian field goal

to give them a three-to-nothing lead, but the Redskins answered on this touchdown pass from Joe Thysman to Charlie Brown, as called by the great Pat Summerall and John Madden. urging eight yards of carry so far, and they'll accept that. I couldn't count. I've been looking down the middle. Has a receiver, touchdown Ritzkid.

Charlie Brown in front of Edison Wall. That gave Washington a 7-3 first quarter lead, and it was a lead that they never gave up the rest of the way. But there were key moments in this game. In the second quarter, Washington was forced to punt with a 7-3 lead, and this is what happened. Jeff Hayes back to kick. He too has been inconsistent. The first Washington punt. Rod Hill back deep for Dallas. This one, he'll keep all day long and a lot more like it. Thumbull. Everson Walls is back on the ball. The ball in the end zone. Could be a touchdown. It could be. They'll rule that the impetus is back up at the spot where the ball was fielded, and that's what they'll say. Washington nevertheless will have the ball. Marty Coleman made the hit that caused it. It's going to be the muff rule.

It's Riggins and Winsley. And it's Riggins for the touchdown. The muffed punt and then the subsequent Riggins touchdown run gave Washington a 14 to 3 halftime lead. But after Danny White had been knocked out of the game by Dexter Manley, Washington did see their lead shrink early in the third quarter when Gary Hoga Boom threw a touchdown pass to Drew Pearson to make it 14 to 10. But then maybe the biggest play of the game.

14 to 10, third quarter, the ensuing kickoff, I think the greatest punt and kickoff returner in Washington Redskins history, Mike Nelms on the ensuing kickoff. Septuans kick goes to Nelms. Nelms will start from the Redskin four-yard line. Nelms has got some room. He's got only set the end. Now he's got somebody else chasing. Nelms finally taken to the ground by Dennis Slam.

76-yard kickoff return. That 76-yard kickoff return set up another John Riggins touchdown from four yards out. Washington had a 21-10 lead. Still wasn't over. Hoga Boom hit Butch Johnson for a touchdown pass. late in the third quarter to make it 2117. Listen to how silent the crowd goes on this touchdown pass. Now we'll see if he can stay perfect out of his shotgun.

Got a blitz going. Hoga boom for Johnson. Touchdown, a penalty marker down. Penalty flag in the end zone. Johnson going with the California quick. Hoga boom had the ball right there. But keep in mind there's a flag down. It's against the bottom.

Redskins. Illegal contact, number 45, defense, penalty. The crowd fell completely silent on that touchdown pass. You know, back then, you didn't have stub hub for resell. In a stadium like RFK and a fan base, like Washington's, you just didn't get many of the opponent's fans into the stadium. You could have probably counted the number of cowboy fans in that stadium on like two to three hands. out of the 55,035 that were there.

By the way, in watching that play again, I don't think Butch Johnson today would have completed the catch to the ground. I think it would have been ruled incomplete. He did get both feet in bounds in the back of the end zone, and then he went to the ground after he got both feet in and did not survive the ground with the ball intact. It may have been overturned had there been replay back then. But anyway, it was 21 to 17.

Washington added a field goal to give themselves a 24 to 17 lead in the fourth quarter. And then with seven minutes plus left in the game, the Cowboys had the ball deep in their own territory, trailing by seven with a chance to go down the field and tie the game up. But this happened, truly one of the iconic plays. in team history. You look at it, fourth quarter, seven points

separating the team. It's also the difference between going to the Super Bowl or not. One of these teams will be in Pasadena next week and the other one will be spread around the country watching on television. And the financial considerations are substantial. If you go all away, each man will get an extra $70,000. Ogaboon, fix.

Goes the screen, has it batted away, and picked off in the air by Darrell Grant, touchdown, Redskins. And with that, Dexter Manly tip, Darrell Grant interception, bringing it into the end zone, that was it. Washington had a 3117 lead, and that's how it ended. The Sports Illustrated cover, that was a big deal back in the day. Wham, bam, it's the Redskins, and it's a picture of Darrell Grant spiking the ball into the end zone after that play.

Washington was off to Super Bowl 17. The Cowboys were headed home. The Cowboys had packed suitcases to go directly from Washington to Pasadena because there wasn't a two-week respite between championship games and the Super Bowl. There was only one week that year. It was a strike-shorten year. They expanded the playoffs, and so there was only a week. Washington was moving on to Pasadena where they would win Super Bowl 17.

a week later in Pasadena. So it is my pleasure to bring on one of the stars of that game and one of my favorite people to have conversations with, especially when it involves Redskins versus Cowboys. Dexter Manley joins me right now. How have you been? Well, one day at a time, Kevin. I tell you what, Kevin, I've gone through the rain,

the wind and the storm, but now I'm on the other side. I'm coming up for 17 years clean on June 17th. Oh, that's awesome. That's great. That's good to hear. I hope you're in good health. And, you know, the reason I reached out to you the other day, Dex, is because Sunday, this coming Sunday, is the 40-year anniversary of Washington beating the Cowboys, 31 to 17, and the day. the NFC championship game. You knocked Danny White out in the game. You tipped the ball up into the air that Daryl Grant caught. Can you believe it's been 40 years?

Well, I can't believe it, but thank God I'm still here. Yes. So what do you remember about that day? Well, what I remember about that day is that coming from Reston, Virginia, we stayed at the Dulles Marriott. And once you get on, I say you start to look at the traffic on GW Parkway. You know, you see so many fans, they got the redskins on the truck, their cars, and not only that, and then when you get on 3-95,

then you see some of the Dallas Cowboys vehicles, and it was unbelievable. And then when you take that exit, going down, whatever street that is, get to the stadium by D.C. Armour. Yep. It was so excited. Just that along was exciting. And Kevin, I grew up in Houston, Texas. My whole family likes the Dallas Cowboys.

I was great. Lots of Dallas Cowboys. I remember when I was a kid, they beat the Green Bay Packers in the storm. and I think it'd be the one lost, but anyway, going to that game on that Saturday, and you get up there by D.C. armor, you just see the massive of people, the Cowboys, the Redskins.

I'm not going to call them the command. I'm calling them the Cowboys. You caught them the Redskins. I've called them the Redskins. That's fine with me. That's down the road. That's who you played for it. You played for the Redskins.

Yeah, I mean, it was so excited, and I knew that we had to perform because in this town, the Cowboys been running to the Redskins for a lot of years, for a lot of years. And like I said, that everybody in Houston, Texas, I know they were rooting for, they were rooting for me personally, and they loved the Cowboys. but when you walk in that stadium at R&K Stadium you feel the energy electricity

and you know sometimes we'll get to the stadium early you go out, you go out on the field you have to excuse my voice on the field you come out of that tone that's doing warm up even way before warm up and you see all the banner in the stadium

you say we won Allison I saw a some Dexter Manley. Everything was John Riggins, but I saw a lot of Dexter Manly. Sure you did. Yeah. Yeah.

And just all that combustion and going into the game. And I tell you one thing, no question about it. Richard Petitbon, Larry Peckertelli, and Target, Talks. We were well prepared. We did many walk-through. Richard gave big talks about the history of the Cowboys, and they put us in good position. I mean, that's one thing I knew about the Redskins, coaches, staff.

They're going to put the players in good position. Now, there was a lot of players, though, and that was talented, and that was not a player just did their job. Right. And so, so let me, let me, do this. So you've already laid it out, you know, and one of the things, and I talked to Joe Thaisman about it on the radio show, I talked to Doc about it this morning on the radio show. For me, and I was at the game, you know, I was there that day. And for me, it's still the most

memorable sporting event I've ever been to. It's the most raucous, crazed crowd, loudest stadium I have ever been in. And you mentioned this. You referred to it. You referred to it. We used to be the family that would get to the games right before kickoff, but on this particular Saturday for this game, we got there 45 minutes early. And the stadium was filled 45 minutes early, chanting, we want Dallas. And you know what this was like. I mean, I loved when in your football life special, you talked about RFK and what it was like for the cowboy games and big games,

and you got so emotional. And it's the same way a lot of us felt as fans. and that was though that was the day I mean I don't think I've ever and I haven't been in an environment like that when you walked onto that field even for warm-ups you know what are your memories of what that crowd was like and what it was going to be like for the poor cowboys

well I tell you what I never get walking on the coming out of that tunnel for warm-ups it was it was electrified just see all the people that had all their gear on and the banners. And I remember, to me, that was a big deal because this is my second year in the league. You see Mitch, Musfordley, I see Jim and the Greek, they're all talking about the red skin, what we're going to, as a team, they talked about Joe Gibbs, and then they put the camera on.

Jack Kent Cook a few times. But what does come out of that tunnel, man, you know that you've got to go out here and beat these cowboys. Not only for the city, but for the city. Because these guys been running through the Redskins for years. And it was just sitting my crowd to be the best dexter man I could be that day. Because I remember that my father, not my mother, my father loved him, cowboy. All his. And now, all of a sudden, I'm on the Redskinned team.

And I get a chance to stand up in the mud and do what I do. need to do. Yeah. And it was, you know, remember RFK when you got late in this season and the weather turned and that field would turn into dirt and then they would just spray paint it green. I mean, that, that's right. That turf was, was rock hard and it was dirt, wasn't it? It's like playing on concrete a little bit. But it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. And I tell you, I can say, Kevin. That was a lot of times I made aggressive mistakes.

But I remember looking at that set up and Target went over that in the defensive line meetings and they had a different setup. Thorndt Dorset where Gary Hoblebom came in and replaced Danny White.

The formation was the back, tornadoes was almost lined up behind I forgot that tackle who was the tackle. And you knew that. that was going to be a screen. I want to tell you something.

I didn't wreck the passenger like I should have because I felt like that's going to be a screen. Yeah. Now, and hold on, in California, we'd be ready to play the Miami Dolphins. Right. Target, we look at the film from the championship game.

Target and targets kind of chewed me out because I didn't go and rush the passers. I stayed back a little bit because I was anticipating the screen. And see, I wasn't able to back that bar down because I didn't go rush the field. You know, people don't give me a lot of credit, but I was sorry. You know you. You knew, you and Daryl Grant both knew that the screen was coming. And you, you both hesitated because you felt screen.

I've watched the play a million times, and you got your hands up on the ball, tipped it up into the air. Darrell Greent was laying. He was laying back to playing the screen because he was throwing the screen to Dorset. Dorset was out on the screen. And the tackle that you're talking about, I think, was Pat Donovan. I think that's who it was. Yeah, I guess.

But you're right. I was anticipating the screen, and I think even Darablet, like you said, because, you know, he's inside. And how do a guy come around and look when I hit the ball and it goes right in his hand? Yeah. And I knew from that point all, and when he scored that touchdown, it was over. And you see, you know, it was just unbelievable. I don't think you see many sports in this country like that.

That place erupted. It was such a, it was such a great moment. We skipped ahead here because there's a rather significant. play that happened earlier in the game, which is why Gary Hoga Boom was in the game in the first place. And I want to talk about that. But since we jumped ahead to the clincher, your deflection, Darrell Grant's interception return, what do you remember about the celebration in the end zone? Did you got you, the game was, there were seven minutes left. They were down two touchdown. That was pretty much it. The game was over. It was over. Well, I don't remember much because

once Darrell's going to touch. I didn't go in the crowd and do the celebration. I went on to the sideline. But I just knew that it was pandemonial from the players and the fans. We played off each other. And so that's not all. I knew then that that game was over. We had beat the Dallas Cowboys.

That was my only hope and dream. because Kevin, I tell you, when I was a little boy, I loved them Dallas Cowboys, but when I went to Oklahoma State, I stopped liking the Cowboys. But I want to say this is that my whole family, man, they just loved them Cowboys. I got cousins and first cousins, aunts and uncles.

Yeah. And now here I have a chance to play in that stadium and watch me do my thing and watch Joe Gibbs put a coach's staff together, especially the decent. I can always speak from a defense fan point of view. And we was well prepared, and we had guys, you know, Big Dave, Buss and Darrell Glatt plugging up the mill. And, hey, we kicked their bus that day.

You did. Now, I want to talk about the signature play of, there were two signature plays of that game. We just went over the game clincher. But look, Gary Hoga Boom's not in that game. if you don't knock Danny White out in the first half. So tell me about your memories of that play. Okay, good call. Well, the play was a tech.

Tex is a stunt. You know, you set together. I sold it good and Darry Grant sold it good. What I mean about, I kind of got up to feel, make whoever that tackle was. And so he turned out to block me, and down pull that guard around, like pull his shoulders, and I came Scott Free.

Like a phrase train. I want to knock his head off. I'm not going to be shy about it. I want to really close his life, put his lights out. And it didn't take the play. That was it. And I was one of the play. But I think if Danny White would have stayed in that game,

the results probably wouldn't different because he was a player. that will make excellent passes, excellent plays. But on that day, what they forgot is that Joe Gibbs and Bobby Betta had drafted a lot of guys that was in my class that who helped turn this whole organization around. See, that was the best football team in the Washington Redskins history, I think, because we were welcome. We had excellent talent on our team. and the other thing I can say, Kevin is that,

hey, that was a great moment. Not only for me, but for this organization and the city. That was a phenomenal moment. So have you ever talked to Danny White about that over the years or any of the Cowboys about that game? But let's start with Danny White. Have you ever run into Danny White and never talk to him? I'm glad you asked that question.

I say about last year, You ever saw that, Bruce Allen allowed me to have a pass to go on the field. On the field. Right. And I think I'll finish this phone conversation. I'm going to text you the picture. Okay. I'm on the field.

I had my preacher with me. I took him on the field and we just walked around and I'd be down. Calvin Hill, I knew Calvin Hill when I was good. rookie, you know, and matter of back, he kind of showed me around on the field, and not show me around, but walked me around, and me and the preacher.

And so, and now, I'm talking with Calvin Hill, and who comes up? Danny White. Really? That's the first time. Yeah, I'm going to send you the picture when I get off this door. I want to see this. So tell me about what happened.

Well, we just talked. We never talked about that day, and And he just looked at me up and down. I looked at him, and that was it. We talked with it. We didn't say nothing about that day. Nothing about that day. Because if he said something, I would have closed his life out right now.

No, you wouldn't have. You wouldn't have done it on the field as older men. But that's, that's the only, that was the only time. That's amazing. And that was a couple of years ago, you said, when Bruce Allen was there. And I do want to see the picture. So text it to me when we're done for sure.

To me, Dexter, that is the most memorable game in franchise history. You guys went on to win the Super Bowl the next week. But whether it's, you know, Rigo or Doc or Joe or Jake or any of them, they've always felt that that was the game. Like the Super Bowl was almost anticlimactic. Like, it was great that you won the Super Bowl, but the big win was against Dallas in the NFC championship game. Do you feel the same way? Absolutely.

But I want to ask you a question because I was a little three years. I was young, but I don't remember who won that day when Tilly Houston stopped Walt Gerson on the one yard line. Did they win that game? Yeah, that was a regular season game on Monday night football. It would have been nine. it would have been eight years earlier. It was 1973. In fact, Dexter, on my Twitter account,

I have two pictures up on my Twitter avatar. I have Ken Houston tackling Walt Garrison before he crossed the goal line, and I've got you sacking Danny White in the NFC championship game.

Two of my greatest memories in two of the most memorable games for me is a fan of the team. But, yeah, the Ken Houston tackle was a regular season Monday night game, and yes, they did win that game. Yeah, okay. Well, the reason I ask, you said something about greatest wins in the history of the organization. Right.

Not the greatest, but that was one of them. Yeah. And I just, I don't remember saying that play will become here being a red skin. That's all I used to hear, people talking about how Kenning Houston stopped Walt Gas on the one-yard line. Yeah. But it was this great, man, it was so great for this city. I mean, it was, hey, I can go anywhere in this town and get a free meal, get this, people by this.

It was amazing. Now I can't get, I can't people throw me a dime or penny. Do you remember after the game was over, you know, how did you celebrate the win? Because remember, there was only a week between the championship. win over the Cowboys and then the Super Bowl. Wasn't two weeks like it normally was because that was the strike shortened season. So, you know, how did you guys celebrate that win that afternoon? Well, I went back to the rest of them.

You know, I was a choir board then. So I went into my extra career activity. I almost hesitated asking you. So you were a choir boy. It was the only second year in the league. Yeah, second-e-e-league plus, I was going to Joe Gibbs, what do you call that? What? His, the joke.

Before the Saturday night, we have, I forgot what they called it. The mass? You're talking about a religious gathering? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so did he have a team mass? Yeah, we're going to have a. They have choir people come seeing. I forgot this guy who was a minister.

He'd come in and talk to us. So I was into that kind of stuff early on in my career. Got it. Was it hard, was it hard Dexter after that win to get up for the Super Bowl the following week? I know that sounds crazy to ask because you're playing in the Super Bowl, but it was such a big high beating the Cowboys. What was it like? following week to get up for the Super Bowl?

Well, it was even bigger because then I, like I said, it was my second year in the league, but I understood the magnitude of that Super Bowl, Super Bowl 17. And so it was easy because I was just as fired up as I was against the Cowboys. You know, some people would say, well, you play a kind of emotioning game and you come back, can you do it back to back? I could do it back to back because I was a young guy. I think most guys with our team was that fired up and was willing to win that to vote for Joe Gibbs' first one that we had an opportunity to go there, and we did it for the coach. And not only for ourselves, too, but I think a lot of guys care so much about Joe Gibbs and they wanted to get it for him.

That's what I remember the most. Who was the greatest pass rusher of the 1980s? Well, there's no question. You're talking to him. There is no doubt. There is no doubt Dexter Manley was the greatest pass rusher of that decade. It's so good to hear your voice. I'm so glad you're doing well.

I love hearing you reminisce. I know how important, you know, beating the Cowboys was for you that day. But really, I mean, you've always, I mean, anytime even in recent years the team is playing the Cowboys, that's the game you want Washington to win. You still hate the Cowboys, don't you? Well, well, my wife tells me, don't use that term hate. But since I'm going to say, I'm going to say I dislike the Cowboys. I dislike it.

From the day I went to Oklahoma State because I don't get in that. That's a long story between you got the Cowboys, you got those owners. They all kind of have the same mentality. They're above the other players. Right. They're just so similar, and I didn't like when I went to college. I'm not going to use the word hate. I used to use the word hate a lot, but not anymore.

It's great to catch up. I'm so glad you're doing well. Thank you so much for doing this. Hey, thanks for having to. Hey, will you send a check in the mail? Yes. Look for it in a few weeks. Okay.

you so much. Happy New Year's to you. You too, Tex. Take care. That was phenomenal. Love Dexter. So glad he's doing well.

That's it for the day. Back on Monday to recap all of the divisional playoff games. And the financial considerations are substantial. If you go all the way, each man will get an extra $70,000. Hoga boom, fakes. Goes the screen, has it batted away and picked off in the air by Darrell Grant. That's down rich.