The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley Does a Haskins' Film Breakdown

Episode Date: November 27, 2019

Kevin and Aaron open up with the Stephen F. Austin upset of Duke. Kevin added another reason (not mentioned previously) as to why he is optimistic about Dwayne Haskins. Kevin and Aaron debate whether or not Thanksgiving Weekend is the sports weekend of the year. Cooley jumps on for the remainder of the podcast with his film breakdown of Haskins vs Detroit and more including a ton on Lamar Jackson and the Ravens. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. I didn't even see it, Aaron. I woke up this morning at 4 a.m. looked at my phone. 15 plus text messages unopened, brand new, all of them. This gives you some insight into what really, you know, moves me and many of my friends. Duke lost. My favorite text message came from one Hall of Fame coach, Gary Williams, who texted me after the game, and I didn't see it again until 4 this morning. He's like, Duke just lost to Stephen F. Austin. What the hell is going on? Question mark, question mark. A lot of you texted me. Steve Sands, I got it. I was sound asleep. I watched the first quarter of the Wizards game, and I fell asleep. and I woke up to that at 4 this morning, and there you go.

I do morning radio, as many of you know. Now, if you didn't know that, you can listen to me on the team 980, 7 to 10 a.m. weekday mornings, and I was exhausted last night, Aaron, and fell asleep and woke up to that. I watched all of the highlights of Duke's loss to Stephen F. Austin and read as much as I could to get ready for this particular conversation. I wish I had watched it, because I think that, you know, I did watch the Evansville game against Kentucky a few weeks ago. And I told you, I think, the next day,

that what was really striking to me in that game early on is that Evansville was not afraid. You know, most teams go into Rupper, they go into Cameron Indoor, and they're looking around. They're like, oh, wow, this is what Cameron Indoor looks like. This is what Rupp looks like. And you've got to do the Hoosiers thing. You know, you got to measure the rim to the floor

and tell your kids, hey, it's 10 feet. And then you got to measure, you know, the rim to the free throw line, 15 feet. Same measurements as our gym back in Evansville, Indiana, or wherever they were from. Where was the Hoosiers team from? I'm forgetting the little town that they were from right now. Start with the seat, not crock is, something along those lines. Somebody's going to pull it right now, and you're screaming at me right now. So we will get that here momentarily. But in watching that Kentucky game a few weeks ago, it was like, man, Evansville wasn't afraid. Well, clearly Stephen F. Austin was not afraid. And the reason that these things happened,

And last night was the biggest point spread upset in 15 years. Duke was a 27 and a half point favorite last night. Hickory, Hickory, of course. 27 and a half point favorite last night over Stephen F. Austin. Kentucky was what, a 26 point favorite over Evansville? Something like that, 25 and a half. 26, I believe, yeah. And so biggest point spread upset in the last 15 years.

First non-conference home loss at Cameron Indoor for Duke since two. thousand St. John's beat them. They were the last non-conference team to walk into to Cameron Indoor and win. So last night was really shocking, but when this stuff happens, and it happens, you know, we've seen it in recent years, Wofford over North Carolina. By the way, that former Wofford coach that is now coaching Virginia Tech, really good. He can really coach. I've watched Virginia Tech a little bit this year. I watched him the other night against Michigan State. They got blown out by Dayton. Dayton's a good team. That dude can coach. I played golf yesterday. and ran into one of my favorite coaches in town.

And we were talking about, you know, Buzz Williams in Texas A&M and Maryland could get them right in the semifinals in Orlando. And I think Buzz Williams is a good coach. And I just said, have you seen the dude that used to coach at Wofford? He's like, oh, my God. How about this stuff he runs? He can really do it. But anyway, typically what you get in these upsets

and why they happen is probably one of the big reasons that happened last night. The top eight players for Stephen F. Austin are seniors and juniors. The starting five for Duke, four freshmen, and a sophomore. Trey Jones is a sophomore. Very good one. He had eight turnovers last night in the game. But you're talking very often in these cases about grown men against younger teenagers who, by the way, have only played a few games. Now, you get those four, five-star freshmen and that sophomore at the end of the year and they've played 20 games, 25 games, you know, know, they've basically now become, you know, experienced. Now you're catching them and they're not as experienced. And you're playing a team that has seniors and juniors, a senior point guard who played 40 minutes last night for Stephen F. Austin. There were a couple of other things that were interesting about the game. I didn't see the game again, so I can't really comment on whether or not this was a Duke

whistle or not. Were you watching the game? Did you watch the whole thing? I did not watch the whole thing. obviously it was just kind of a nothing game at first. I was actually watching Watchmen on HBO for a little. I've heard that's great. Oh, it's really, really good particularly if you're a fan of the comic book or movie. But then as it was wrapping up, I see, you know, two minutes left here in camera.

I'm like, oh, I think I need to watch this. So pretty much from two minutes left in the regulation through overtime. Well, then you may not have a sense of the following either, but Duke shot 40 free throws and Stephen F. Austin shot 17, which is not unusual for Duke game. Cameron Indoor for Duke to get what we've all learned to be over the years, the Duke whistle at home or on the road or a neutral court. I have no idea if they got that or not last night. From what I saw and then from what I was reading and talking to people afterwards, it was a pretty fair whistle overall. So here's the thing though. Duke only made 24 of 40 free throws.

They missed 16 free throws. So there's your game right there. I didn't, I don't need to have watched the game to say, this game doesn't go to overtime if they're just horrible from the free throw line instead of epically bad from the free throw line. Stephen F. Austin also forced 22 turnovers, which tells me that either Duke was really out of it or Stephen F. Austin was really, you know, was really the aggressor. The aggressor. One thing I did notice in one of the highlights and a key possession late in the game, it's so odd. And those of you that really are into hoops and many of you, I know, listen to the podcast or the radio show are involved in the, you know, in the D.C. area in basketball. And we've all sort of in the last couple of years been blown away at how much Coach K has played zone defensively.

Shishovsky was for years. Man to man, man, that's it. I mean, you had to put a gun to his head to get him to play zone. And in the last several years, you've seen him play more and more zone defense. And he's actually talked about it and he said, look, when you're recruiting five-star freshmen who are coming in here, who in many cases have played in AAU programs where they weren't coached particularly well in the art of guarding, you know, straight up and guarding pick and roll in sort of a pick-and-roll era, he said it's just a lot easier to teach zone, a lot easier to teach them zone and to have them play zone. But last night, as I'm watching the highlight package, they're up, up one. They weren't down in the game.

They were up a point, I think, late in the game, maybe regulation. And I'm watching Stephen F. Austin move the ball around against a two-three zone. And I'm like, you're playing Stephen F. Austin. You're sitting back in a two-three zone? Seriously? And Stephen F. Austin seemed to be a well-coached team. Ball didn't hit the ground. Four or five passes.

Guys got a wide open three knocks it down and they're up too. I mean, you would have never back in the day, seeing Shoshchevsky in a tight game against a team that he's more talented than playing a zone on a key possession in the game. Anyway, I thought that was interesting. Stephen F. Austin in the Southland Conference is only picked to finish fourth preseason. It's not like, you know, they've had some really good teams in tournament teams in recent years. I don't think they were in the tournament last year, but they were picked to finish behind New Orleans, Sam Houston State, and Abilene Christian. in their league.

You were going to say something. I was just going to say something about Duke, really, and obviously no one expected this. No one expected anything like this. I kind of expected to see Duke stumble pretty quickly here. And again, not here, not in this game. But this is not the Duke that we've grown custom to. Why do you say that I haven't watched enough of them yet?

Tell me what. Not nearly a say, A, they don't have a lottery pick on the team. As of now, they do not have a lottery pick on the team. That will be the first time. I'm pulling up the draft history now. First time since, God, 2013. This guy, Vernon Carey is not a lottery pick? Right now, he's first round, but not lottery pick.

And he's by far their highest draft. I think I saw him the latest mock draft at like 22 or something like that. It'll be the first time since 2013. They don't have a lottery pick, assuming that Kerry doesn't really explode. They're obviously a good team, Trey Jones awesome. They're an experienced team, or at least slightly more experienced than last year. But this wasn't your typical, all right, here's Zion, here's a guy, you know, here's an RJ, here's guys we bring in and they immediately, you know, Javari Parker, they immediately contribute. That wasn't this team.

And while I expected them to be good, I did expect them that they were going to lose a few of these. Again, not necessarily this game, but maybe some games we didn't necessarily expect them to lose. How many of their guys are projected first rounders? I think. So just pulling up. Give me a mock draft. Here's NBA draft.net, not necessarily the most reputable, but let's see, we have Vernon Carey. That's it.

Only, well, Trey Jones would have potentially gone in the late first round last year, I thought. They have Trey Jones as an early second rounder in this one. Wow. Okay. I mean, that certainly could be a reason. I mean, when you get NBA lottery picks on your team like they had last year, and R.J. Barrett and Cam Reddish and Zion Williamson, you know, am I forgetting, one from last year. Remember when they lost Zion and, you know, Coach K is giving us the woe is me story and I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute. R.J. Barrett, Cam Rudisher, still two

top five to top ten picks. Here's the amazing thing about this year's draft. You may not see a Duke or Kentucky player in the lottery. Interesting. One thing that I do remember, I've not watched a lot of Duke. I saw him in that opener against Kansas, you know, in that opening game, in that double-head. with Michigan State playing Kentucky and Kansas playing Duke. And they, you know, they were sloppy with the ball. They turned it over a bunch. Kansas turned it over a bunch. But I know that they, because I was interested from a gambling standpoint,

I know they were in a dog fight with Georgia State a couple of like two weeks ago or a week and a half ago. And Georgetown gave them everything that they, you know, that's different Georgetown and Stephen F. Austin. But wasn't Georgetown either in the lead or tied at halftime, I think, against Duke? They led at one point in the game, I believe. They went on that big run. I don't know if it was at halftime, but yeah.

They play in East Lansing against Michigan State in the ACC Big Ten thing coming up, which will be interesting. So anyway. Michigan State, another team that could have problems. Did you see what Izzo said? I didn't say that. He apologized for the loss to Virginia Tech, which, you know, to be honest with you, I don't like when coaches do that because he's,

it's demeaning to the team that beat you. And I watched enough of that game to know that Virginia Tech totally deserved to win the game. Absolutely. So you don't need to apologize to your fan base for losing a game to a team that outplayed you. He did say, though, that Cassius Winston, who lost his brother, his brother passed away at a very young age, obviously, a couple of weeks ago, that Winston's just been dealing with grief that has really impacted. You know, his game, Cassius Winston is an all-American. He is the frontrunner for the Big Ten player of the year,

and that there's just, you know, immeasurable grief in the Winston family, and it's impacting his play, which obviously is understandable. But Izzo did speak to that. You know, the context in which he was speaking to it was in the context of they haven't played well. He said, quote, this was after they beat Georgia yesterday, the day after losing to Virginia Tech the night before, Izzo said, quote, we got an All-American that's probably gone through one of the toughest things

that any human being would go through, and we're just going to have to keep working him day to day through that, closed quote. You've got Michigan State and Duke facing off in a couple weeks. Last night was great. College basketball this time of year needs things like this, quite honestly. Last year was a very unique year compared to other recent years. Other years recently in college basketball because you had a superstar from night one in Zion Williamson, and everybody was paying attention to the sport because of him.

Too many years here over the last decade, the sport has become a one month of the year sport. So to have Evansville going to Kentucky and win at Rupp and to have Stephen F. Austin shocked Duke, you know, especially during the week of holiday college hoops games, probably pretty good for the sport. All right. I wanted to get to something here. Cooley's going to be in the show. I forgot to mention that at the top. Cooley's going to join us here momentarily. But I wanted to talk about for a moment the discussion that Tommy and I were having yesterday about Dwayne Haskins.

And the divide that I think is developing among the fan base about Dwayne Haskins. Some of you have already bailed on Dwayne Haskins. Some of you like me are intrigued by Dwayne Haskins. Haskins. Some of you are total believers in Dwayne Haskins, but it's one of those things that, you know, we've gotten into over the years. Thank God he's playing. Can you imagine how miserable and how completely uninteresting this football team would be if Colt McCoy or Case Keenum were the starting quarterback? We'd have nothing to pay attention to. So thankfully, you know, this time of year, let's be thankful that Dwayne Haskins is starting these games and it gives you a reason

to watch and evaluate. And as I've mentioned before, you know, because of the situation with this organization at the top levels, you know, there are very few ways out of this thing. You know, he's not going to sell the team. You know, firing Bruce Allen or having Bruce Allen retire isn't going to solve the problem completely. You need, you know, when you're a terrible organization from the top down, you need a top flight quarterback to try to save you. I've given the example many times. You know, the Colts were a bottom feeding organization in sports. They drafted Peyton Manning, he turned everything around. Now, they had Bill Pollian in the organization, which probably helped them. But still, without Peyton Manning, it would have been a bottom-feeding

organization continuing. You know, the Ursa's and the Colts were really a terrible franchise, which is why they had that opportunity to draft Peyton Manning. So, you know, a top-tier quarterback could save the organization, could mask what's wrong with the organization. But it's one of these things we've gotten into, you know, recently with RG3, with Kirk Cousins. It's that debate among fans. It's a healthy debate. You know, it gets very emotional at times. I see some of, some of you write to me on Twitter and some of the calls we take on radio. But, you know, at the same time, I mean, we're all, I think, as fans of the team hoping that it turns out to be okay. But there's something about Dwayne Haskins that I haven't mentioned that I've been

very impressed with recently. I've mentioned all of the things. that to me have moved my opinion from being sort of convinced pre-draft after draft leading into the season that this was not the right pick. I really did feel that way. Most of you know that. I just did not think that he was a top half of the first round guy. Fan on the couch, watching a lot of college football, it's what I thought. But, you know, in recent weeks, many of you have noticed that I've sort of been intrigued. and basically I've gone from thinking he had no chance to believing that there might be a chance. You know, I love the confidence that he has.

I love the way he's aggressive. I love the way he moves. I think he's a much better playmaker than I ever gave him credit for being. John Kime shared with me the other night that Dwayne shared with him that he has lost weight and body fat and that he's got a different body type than he had at Ohio State. So that's something that I think is noticeable with his mobility. But the thing that I think I haven't mentioned yet that I want to mention, and I'm going to bring up with Cooley when I talk to Cooley,

is something Joe Gibbs said many years ago. And I'll never forget Joe Gibbs talking about Doug Williams. You've got to go back to the 80s. And there was the quarterback debate between Schrader and Doug Williams. And Joe Gibbs said a quarterback has to. If a quarterback is going to be a great quarterback, he must be willing to take a hit. He can't have his eyes go down. He can't get happy feet.

He's got to keep his eyes downfield on the prize, even though he knows he's going to take a big shot. Dwayne Haskins has not shied away from the big shot. He has not gotten happy feet. Have you noticed happy feet at any point? You see that on a lot of quarterbacks, young and old. They do not like to get hit. Dwayne's got a build that is able to absorb the hit, Rathlisberger-like in some ways, you know,

and so maybe he's been hit a lot and knows that it doesn't hurt him as much as it hurts others. You know, he's got that build that maybe he can absorb those hits better, but he's not afraid. It goes with that mindset that I am attracted to right now, intrigued by, that he's got some athletic arrogance, but more than that, he's in the pocket when he's in there, he's throwing the eyes or down the field. He knows he's about to take a big shot and it doesn't phase him.

These are all positive things. Get to more of that with Cooley. We'll see what Cooley felt about Sunday's game. I gave it a C. It would have been, you know, in the D area had he not delivered in those final two drives. But I, you know, this is going to be an interesting. debate over the final five games. The ship is sailed on them, you know, if ever were even, you know, at port ready to take a quarterback in the draft next year. They're not taking a

quarterback in the draft next year, unless Dan Snyder sells the team, and he's not going to do that. They're going with Haskins for another year. Now, Alex Smith, I think, is going to be a part of the organization next year. And if he's healthy, you know, there's a possibility he could be competing with Dwayne. They have a very good relationship. John Kime wrote about that yesterday. Very good read. I'd read that if you're a Redskin fan about the relationship between Alex Smith and Dwayne Haskins. Haskins really, like Patrick Mahomes did, really likes Alex Smith, you know, and considers him to be the best resource right now. Got a lot of quarterbacks in that building. Got two of them that are on the roster, and Colt McCoy and Case

Keenham, have a Super Bowl MVP quarterback in Doug Williams, have Tim Rite, have Matt Kavanaugh, have Kevin O'Connell, a lot of quarterbacks in the building. Had Jake Rudin in the building, and he really relies on Alex Smith. He relates to Alex Smith. Tells you, by the way, without question, Alex Smith will be a part of this organization next year. If he's not on the roster, mark my words, he will be part of the organization. Also, today is, believe it or not, 12 years ago, the saddest day, you know, I think one of the saddest days in D.C. sports history, Sean Taylor was already a great player. And he was, and I've had this debate with people over the years. Now, Kevin, he was just a good player. No, he was a good player early on with a lot of flaws.

But in 2007, he was in the midst of a great season. And you could tell the maturity. He was a great player. And he was getting better. And he was struck down in his own, home in Florida. And a few days later, this day, 12 years ago, he passed away. You know, and I mentioned this morning, it was such a tragedy. It was so shocking. It was so sad. He was a husband. He was a father. He was a son. And he was a friend to his teammates and to this city. And Sean Taylor will never be forgotten in this city. That's for sure. He was, you know, we talked yesterday about the electrifying way in which Lamar Jackson plays football. And Sean Taylor is cut from that cloth and was cut from that cloth.

He was electrifying. It was like, oh, my God, have you seen Sean Taylor play? And there was a blur on TV when you watched games, whether it was number 36 in his rookie year or number 21 later, where you would just see this flash, this blur. And it was like, that was Sean flying into a pile, flying into the line of scrimmage. He covered ground as a safety like very, very. few have over the years. And it's really, you know, the death, you know, always sort of at times exaggerates what someone was in life. But the fact that he has become such a hero to so many young

football players and so many players who are in the league today tells you that the style at the very least was unique. There was substance there too. You know, I know what he was early in his career, and we all know that he had flaws on the field and off it. But in 2007, he was playing as well as any safety in football. He had become a great player, and he was only going to get better. So amazing, 12 years, God, never forget that day. Never forget the programming. John Riggins and I on the air from pretty much sunup to sundown on that day 12 years ago. A lot of other people were as well. A lot of you were following it, you know,

comment by comment, and it was tragic, and it was a sad day. He'll never be forgotten. Rest in peace, Sean Taylor. All right, quick word about my bookie.ag. Big betting weekend, Aaron. This is the best sports weekend of the year. It is for me.

We can talk about that here in a moment, but, I mean, it's college basketball galore. It's NFL galore. It's rivalry week, college football, and Thursday, Friday, Saturday, NFL on Thursday, then Sunday, then Monday night. If you're looking to bet and you don't have a guy, my bookie.orgie.ag will deliver. They are reliable. They've got quality lines. You will get paid if you win. That's important

because there are some shops out there that you have to be distrustful and leery of. All right, my bookie.orgie.org, use my promo code, Kevin D.C., K-E-V-I-N-D-C, and they will double your first deposit. MyBooky.ag, today you play, you win. You get paid. Do you think it's the best sports weekend of the year? I do. I mean, it's tough to beat the first weekend of March Madness. This is my favorite.

If you want to say entire week go Monday to Sunday, it's my favorite week of the year. The weekend, it's tough to beat that first weekend of March Madness, but it's a close number two for me. Yeah, this is number one for me. And March Madness and the divisional round of the NFL playoffs would be a close second and third. March Madness, the Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, the first and second rounds is phenomenal.

And it's that extended weekend, too, because it's Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Not just Saturday, Sunday. The NFL divisional round or the wild card round, whichever you prefer, two days, four games. This is college hoops morning to night, late season NFL with three games on Thanksgiving Day, another 12 games on Sunday, Sunday night, and then one on Monday night, if you want to count that as part of the extended weekend. late-season NFL, meaning games with stakes, playoff stakes. Then you get college football on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, rivalry games everywhere, playoff stakes games everywhere.

It's the best regular season sport college football, and you get its most important weekend, or certainly one of the most important weekends. I'm not into the NBA this time of year, although I do follow it, as you know. NHL, I don't follow it this time of year. Neither of those are big deals, but you got all those games going on. and then you wrap it around the best meal of the year. The best holiday of the year, in my view, is Thanksgiving. And you get the best leftover situation throughout the weekend after Thanksgiving.

I love this weekend. March Madness is close. It's really close. That Thursday, Friday, when you leave work early and you got your brackets filled out, and you got games like multiple games, four games going on simultaneously, buzzer beat her here, shocker over here. It's great. Actually, I find Saturday and Sunday to be even better than Thursday and Friday. When you get the one versus eight game, the two seven, the four or five games, you get some really good matchups then as well.

Anyway, so that's that. Also, I wanted to mention real quickly before we get to a quick NFL power poll that the Redskins, did you know that they are still alive for a playoff berth? I mean, technically, I guess. So this morning, I'm listening to Galdi here in the studio, getting ready for my show, and he goes through the playoff scenarios for the Redskins. First of all, I'm thinking, wait a minute, that's my job. That's what I've been doing at the station for years. You know, they're 5 and 6, and I got it all mapped out on how they're going to make the playoffs. I haven't even thought about it at this point at 2 and 9.

But basically, if the Cowboys lose out and the Eagles lose a couple and the Redskins beat the Eagles, beat the Cowboys as part of the Cowboys losing out and the Eagles losing a bunch of games, the Redskins could win the division at 7 and 9. Now, it would require the Redskins winning another five games in row to end the season on a six-game win streak. The chances of that, apparently the overall chances of the Redskins getting to the playoffs are like 900,000 to 1. Yeah, I think it was the Washington Post put up, it said the Redskins could make. the playoffs, you can also be struck by lightning. Oh, so was it the post where Galdi was getting this from? I didn't realize that. I had seen something last night, I remember.

See, can you hear my paper rattling around? Yes, I read the paper online, but yes, I get the paper delivered to. Yeah, here it is. The Redskins could still win the NFCEs, parentheses, you could also get hit by lightning. I don't know if it was in the paper, but it was DC Sportsbox, Scott Allen and Neil Greenberg. 887, 887990 to 1. So essentially, 888,000 to 1. I would think that them winning out would be every bit of a million to 1,

let alone all the other things happening. I don't see this team winning another game. Of course, it could happen. They could beat the Giants. They could beat the Cowboys if the Cowboys have nothing to play for. They could beat the Eagles if the Eagles come in here on December 15th with nothing to play for, although it's pretty early for the Eagles to have nothing to play for. But anyway, they're not going to the playoffs.

But I found it interesting that Galdi was going through. I guess what the post went through, which is the seven and nine possibility for the Redskins. The division's a bad division. Galdi pointed this out and he's right. Like if they were four and seven right now, we would be saying, okay, you know, I mean, somehow if they pull this thing off, if they win one of the next two, you know, eight and eight definitely could win the division. Like if they were four and seven right now, you'd be saying if somehow they can beat either

Carolina or Green Bay the next two weeks to get to five and eight, then you get the Eagles, Giants, Cowboys to finish the year with two of those three at home, you know, could they get to eight and eight and eight and win the division? Maybe. But they're not four and seven. They're two and nine, and they're lucky to be two and nine. They beat the dolphins, barely. and they barely beat the absolute horrible and injury-riddled Detroit Lions. They're much closer to 0 and 11 than they are 4 and 7. In fact, name one other game they've even been close to winning. Well, I guess the Eagle game in the opener because it was the best half of football.

All right, we'll get to Cooley here in a moment. I want to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving and mention to you that if you are in the giving mood and you haven't rated or reviewed the podcast, do that for us. It really helps. Rate it five stars, write a short review on how much you like it. It really does help us from an advertising standpoint and from a positioning standpoint on a lot of these podcast platforms. Also a reminder that we've got an app now. If you want to download the app, you can do so on your iPhone through the app store or on your Android through the Google store.

All right, let's bring in Cooley on the day before things. First of all, what are you doing for Thanksgiving? Do you have people coming over to your house? We're going to the in-laws' house. Oh, okay. My wife's parents, so. Well, that'll be fun. Yeah, I got a green bean casserole cook-off with my wife,

so I'm hoping to win that, and watch a little football, man. Wait a minute. You and Maddie have a green bean casserole cook-off? Yeah, it's not a big deal. we've never done this before, but she makes everything from scratch, and I'm contesting that the generic cremo mushroom soup base is better. So the one made from scratch, you were contesting that basically you could walk into Safeway and get something that you couldn't tell the difference with, right?

Yeah, exactly right. Except the thing is, we went and bought all the stuff for the things we were going to cook, and I got some extra things, and she got to ask me, what is that? Well, what's that? So I'm going to spice it up a little bit. I'm going to win this one. Wow. You know, I think of a cook-off on something like this.

I don't know if green bean casserole would be the item that I... Well, we're making the compliment dish here. No, I understand that. We're not making the whole meal. My wife's a very good thing. She does a... We usually have it at home, and she does a heck of a job with Thanksgiving dinner. Well, happy Thanksgiving to you, Maddie, and the kids.

You too. you're, you know, all the people that I've met before, please send my best to that. All right. So what did, um, what did you make of Sunday and let's start with the quarterback after looking at it on film and, you know, consuming it live and then watching it on tape again and again? Live, I think everybody as a fan consumed it and said he's way off. He's missing a lot of throws that he needs to make. And it looked ugly.

And his stats were not great. but still live. He said, the kid found a way to go six and nine for 76 yards and at least get him into scoring position on the last two drives and win the game. So there was that live. You and I spoke after the game,

and I thought you were more positive than I was. Yeah. Watching film, I watched it twice. After the first time, it was definitely one of those films where you say it's not as bad. And then after watching it the second time, I just came to the conclusion that he made mostly the right decisions. And he's moving in the pocket pretty comfortably.

Detroit didn't have much of a pass rush, but essentially just missed on four or five throws that if he gets back, he's got a really good game. And, you know, even a couple throws, like he threw one to Harmon on third and long. That's a heck of a throw. Great throw. The third and 17 throw. Yes, great throw. And I thought Carmen could have caught that ball. Yep.

Now, he also had a couple high balls caught in the game. Yep. Through and high, the Carmen one-handed. The last throw, the really important throw to Terry McClureen was a very high ball that Terry came down with. And so it could have been a little different in that fashion. I think the other thing is he's one hitch late on a lot of throws. Even though he's making the right decision, he's one-hitch-weight, and maybe be. because he's one hitchlake, needing to see the receiver open just a little bit,

he is erring on the side of do not throw a picker, and so it is high at that. It's not poor anticipation because I think he knows where he wants to go with the ball, but he's a hitchlade on a few of those throws. And then lastly, as he gets better and progresses, he'll really start to use his eyes better on a lot of the throws. Does he want to manipulate the back-end coverage and hold the safety with eyes? Does he want to manipulate the underneath coverage and hold his eyes and try to move some people? A couple good examples.

He threw one over the head of Terry, way over the head on a deep out route or a deep corner. They call it a bench route. He knows where he's going with the ball. He makes the right decision, but he just looks at Terry the whole way. And so the single high safety is allowed to move hard to there, and he's really trying to throw high and far away from him as much as it was Dary's Clay, the corner. if he throws that a half a second earlier, there's just no chance. Or if he holds the safety in the middle of the field, just looking at the safety,

knowing where he's going with the ball, there's no chance that guy gets close. And then another throw to Terry got blown up on a slant route. He can just stare at that middle linebacker right in the middle of the field. He knows where he wants to go on the slant. He's got pretty much the exact same combination on either side, so it's pick a side. So just look at that middle linebacker and keep him, freeze him in the middle of the field. It'll freeze the safety in the middle of the fields, and then you'll have a little bit more window to Terry to make that throw.

So some little things, but I also think, you know, he looks fluid back there in terms of his movements. He's deciding to run when he has to run. He wasn't really frustrated by pressures that Detroit brought. I think he did a pretty good job picking those up, and he did a really nice job checking protection on one, and maybe over through to Terry in the end zone. So I think that the inaccuracy for most people you would say is a problem,

but that was this real big problem in the game. And I think it's really just his footwork right as he's throwing the ball. And so I don't know if it's as big of a problem. If you go back and look at that too, essentially almost every time he's overthrowing, he's almost driving off of his front leg or he's opening his front leg, or he's opening his front leg way up and his hips way up. And so he's just coming through high with his body or coming through with his hips parallel of line at scrimmage.

Those are things that a young quarterback can absolutely work on. It's not his arm accuracy, it's his body that's creating it. Really interesting, because I have not talked to you since Sunday night. And I was much more encouraged than you were after the game, even though you would say to me, I'll give it to you that he was really good on those final two drives that he, you know, delivered in the clutch. But, you know, ultimately, I can't wait for you to finish this tape breakdown to see what you say. Because, I mean, people know this.

And it's not just because we did a show together, but I respect your opinion watching tape more than anybody else. And I, you know, what I'm hearing you saying is that the accuracy stuff is fixable a little bit. It's lower body. That he's got to use his eyes better. And that, you know, it's funny because the one, in addition to accuracy, I said in my breakdown on Monday, and we've been talking about it all week long, that I thought that this was the first game that I saw him waiting a little bit on receivers. I didn't feel that way in the Buffalo game. The jet game is sort of, you know, a throwout the window, you know, the throw-it-out game.

Especially on some of those outroutes, I thought he was waiting instead of throwing with anticipation like he did against Buffalo. And you mentioned that deep bench route. that too, yeah, it was late. But you know what I like about him. I like that he's aggressive. That third and 17, I pointed out, that's aggressive. Like how many quarterbacks just take the check down and punt, you know? And he went for it on 3rd and 17, and I think if Kelvin Harmon catches it,

it might be about a half yard short, but it was a good throw and it was catchable. And I love the scramble on the last drive that got him, you know, a first down. and the way he gets up and he's urgent and he understands the situation and he's playing with urgency and he's playing with great competitive level. I also pointed out this morning because I watched some of this on Sunday and definitely saw it against Buffalo. He's not afraid to take a shot in the pocket. You know, he does not get happy feet at all, I don't think.

When he's in that pocket and he's going to make a throw, I think that's a really good sign. And then the mobility and the feel in the pocket, as we've talked about, is even better than what we thought it was at Ohio State. I was talking to Kime the other night. I don't know if I've told you this or not. Kime had a conversation a few weeks ago with Dwayne, and Dwayne told him that he had lost weight and body fat since Ohio State, which it looks like that.

That's the case. And that may speak to why he's a little bit quicker and a little bit more mobile than we remember. I'm going to urge you, because we've done this a lot of times, to watch the last five games that's played in at Ohio. and watch him run around a little bit. I know. I know he did it.

He got that bad rap from the combine. He did it. He did exactly what he's doing. But I am with you. You know, the only time he has happy feet and it's rare is when he's fooled by coverage. It's not because of pressure. No, he doesn't care about taking the shot. No, he'll take, he has courage in the pocket.

And when he starts to get bad feet, it's essentially because he doesn't know exactly where he wants to go with the ball or he's fooled by pressure a little bit. But the other thing you like him out of him in the pocket is he's not a guy that's going to fumble back there. He protects the ball. When you watch him play, he's always got two hands on the ball, and he's very good at moving in the pocket while keeping that ball close to his body.

I love that from a young quarterback because I don't worry about 10 fumbles a year. Right. Yes, I know the way you just described it. You see him protect the ball and move, you know, that ball away from where he feels the pressure step, he's got great feet, it's in great vision, all of that stuff I think is natural. I mean, I still feel the way I did with respect to the big picture before the draft after

the draft, you know, a month ago, that I would probably bet against him becoming a franchise type of quarterback than on him. But God, do I feel so much differently after these three games than I thought I would feel at this point? I just do. And I know that, you know, you have had some sense, you know, watching the game live, that, you know, there's a long, long way to go. But there are things there. There's something there that, to me, makes me more optimistic than I was, you know, a month ago. He has all of the natural skills that a quarterback needs to have. Right. I think that's what's there.

And he knows how to move like a quarterback. He looks like a quarterback in the pocket. You know, all of the physical attributes and all of the little things that you need to see a quarterback do, you're seeing it. It's just going to be his growth process and his ability to really determine pre-snap looks and some of the post-snap rotations that people are going to give him a lot of as we move in the future. You look at that Detroit game, and their team that played over 70% man-to-man through all of the season. They played him in over 70% zone.

everybody's going to try to fool him. Maybe that's why he's a hit to wait to a lot of it. He hadn't seen it from them. But this is the other thing with the young quarterback. You see everything, and then you start to feel it out, instead of having to actually count it, you just know it, and it will become more innate to him. And I'd like to see him with a couple good –

I'd like to see him with another receiver that really had some skills. you know another time receiver and see him you know I have to really think Terry is my one guy be able to stretch the field a little bit I want to get to Harmon here in a moment based on that comment but you said something that to me would be a coaching issue if Detroit played 70% man coming in and Dwayne struggled against all the exotic looks and all the different looks that Greg Williams gave him, and perhaps Buffalo did too. Wouldn't you prepare him for the possibility that a team's going to watch Dwayne on tape and say, you know what, we're a man team, but if we throw more zone at this

guy, it's going to work in our favor. It will make him think more, hesitate more, struggle more. Wouldn't that be a coaching point during the course of the week to prepare him for, yeah, we've seen Detroit on tape play a lot of man, Dwayne, but we think based on what you've been struggling with that teams are going to throw more zone at you. Yeah, and not just him. I think his offense in general was a lot of the young receivers and how they run their routes, Batman versus Zone,

and that's just them getting a feel from landmarks and some of the stems of some of their routes. And I didn't make his quarterback meeting, so I don't know exactly what they talked about. But what I do know is, other than probably the New York game, where they play Daniel Jones. It's hard to come up with the exact looks that they're going to give him

because they haven't given them. So you're, to some extent, preparing for some unknown as far as their defense. I'm sure they did say, hey, think about this. I think I talked to you last week, and I know I did this on Redskins.com and said, he's going to get zone. The lines aren't going to play him in a bunch of men. You said that on Friday. Yeah.

So, I mean, that's having some foresight into. not what's just on film, but what's, you know, our tendencies and what our struggles are and how they're going to play off. And it worked. I mean, to some extent, it worked because they didn't give up a touchdown to our offense. Our office still didn't score all of the positive things we've said. We didn't score a touchdown on office. I was just going to say that I understand those people, and I've talked to a lot of them this week and heard from a lot of them that are going to say, you know, before those final two drives, Sheehan, he was six for 19 for crime. out loud. They didn't score an offensive

touchdown. He was terrible. And I think that that's not what we're going back to the point where I said I wanted to see him play. He's going to have an average to sub-average supporting cast. He's going to have a coaching staff that's sub-par. He's going to have a coaching staff that's going to be new next year anyway. There's a lot of pressure on them. There's a lot of discussion,

a lot of leaks, a lot of this and that. What I want to see are the things that we can identify in a preseason game. Does he compete hard? How does he deal with adversity? You know, does he throw with anticipation? What does his size look like? How mobile is he? All the things that don't, you know, necessarily always translate to numbers, you know, because some of that's dependent on coaching, game plan, supporting cast, et cetera. And so, I mean, I understand that the numbers were terrible and he missed a lot of easy throws and missed one of the easiest touchdown throws of the year to McLauran. on a play where, correct me if I'm wrong,

what number progression was that, where he came all the way across to McClorn and just missed him in the end zone? One. Oh, it was one? So he just looked it off well? Yeah, I think he did it. It could have been two,

but that was just a play action pattern with a criss-cross, and the tight end hinges was coming across over the top of McCorn, so he was really the picker, so Terry to me was number one there. Well, Dwayne did a good job of not even looking at him until the last second.

And then just missed him, flat out missed him. But, you know, the point is that what you're saying is what we probably both heard, is that what are you, you know, are you nut she in? And I've gotten a lot of that. I mean, the guy was six for 19 in the NFL against a team that was missing defensive players in his butt horrible. I understand that, but all the other things we talked about are true also. So, you know, I look forward to his next game.

I need, too, and it's just about his growth, his progression. Here are the couple things that I didn't really like, and it wasn't necessarily football. I didn't like that we make excuses for why there's all the highballs, and I think the coach did that afterwards and saying he didn't want to underthrow anything so they get picked. Well, he under threw two out routes, and one of them did get picked. Yeah, well, the two out routes that he underthrew. Yeah. They were fine decisions. Terry made sure the other ones didn't get picked.

Exactly. So the shorter out routes were underthrown. The open crossing routes that had no one around them were overthrown. There wasn't a rhyme or reason. I just think he was high. And then I don't think he needed to say his wrist was paying up. His throws were high. He wasn't high.

All he needs to say is a young quarterback is, man, I had some looks that I loved out there. I got to hit those throws. He's going to get the benefit of the doubt as a young. young players for missing throws. He's not missing throws throwing high right into the arms of the safety. He's missing high in the safe areas, at least. So I just think that we can all understand as fans what throws were missed and we'll give him the benefit for a period of time that it can include at least this year. I am. Just say we want to get better. We don't need to talk about a risk or reasons why the balls were high or anything. Let's get better. We want to make

So before we get to, you know, the excuse making and the selfie and all that, because I want to get to that too, you just sort of made a point that I think is really important. Like the things that you and I just discussed, and I've been discussing all week, and you probably have as well on your podcasts and listen to Kooley's podcast. Just get it anywhere you get a podcast. Also go to Redskins.com and click on the podcast icon. He and Clinton did, you know, a show following the game on Monday. make a good point about, you know, the excuse-making, and I want to get to some of that. I also want to say this with respect to Dwayne Haskins. He's going to start these final five games barring injury, and he's going to start 16 games more likely than not next year. I think, you know, that there's going to be enough there

that will intrigue people at the end of this year in that building, and not enough to convince people necessarily, but enough to intrigue people, and there's no chance they're going to draft a quarterback in 2020. So buckle in. It's going to be at least another 21 starts for Dwayne Haskins. Next year's 16 and this year's five, unless Alex Smith makes some sort of miraculous recovery. You would agree with that, right? Yeah, I think that the Bengals are going to take number one anyways, because I think it's impossible to pass on that pick. And as per we've fallen to four and might stay at four based on the bottom of the NFL. think you can agree with that.

I don't see any reason for him not to start every game next year, whether or not Alex Smith recovers. Right. And that's in part because I don't necessarily see, especially with the coaching change, this Redskins team as a Super Bowl contending team. Right. And so in saying that, I don't have a reason to play anybody but the quarterback for the future. unless I saw them as a team that was building to win 10, 11 games with Alex.

And I hope that that's not, you know, we're going to get hyped next year for whatever happens, but I don't know if that's realistic. It should be DeWayne. All right, let's get to the selfie afterwards. Your call, you know, Larry, Doc and Cooley's call, when, you know, Case Keenham goes out there and you just say very surprisingly, he's. over there taking selfies. It was hysterical.

Well, Larry asked me what he was doing. I know. So what was your reaction to this? I'm not that concerned with it. I'm really not. If I was Duane, I would have said, yeah, well, we shouldn't have had 20 seconds left on the clock. Well, yeah, there was that, too. No, and I was surprised that Fabian had a pick that ended the game that I,

thought the game was going to end anyway. I don't care. He was pretty hype, and he almost broke a water bottle, and he went and took some pictures. And he thought the game was over. I really don't care. I just don't. Would you use it as a teaching moment? If I needed to use that as a teaching moment, we have the wrong guy, just so we're clear on this.

I don't need to teach anybody that they need to stay focused throughout the entire game. Okay, how would you have handled it? If you were the coach, how would you have handled it? I would have said almost what Bill said is, look, I wanted him there. I'm glad Case was available. I'll talk to him afterwards. We'll talk about this. Okay, that's what you would have said to the media.

What would you have said to him? And the one thing I would have, don't do that again. And that's it? What would you have, I mean, the only thing that I didn't like, was that he needed to be made aware. I want to blame Sean for this, but to anybody, the game wasn't over. You were on television taking selfies,

well, a couple cases, taking the snap. And by the way, that's how I knew, because during our call, where's Dwayne, I saw the television cut of it. Yeah. So I wasn't trying to throw him under the bus. He was on TV. TV threw him under the bus.

Yeah. I guess here's the teaching moment, right? They're watching everything you do. You are never alone in the stadium. They're going to know when you're talking to your offensive line. They're going to know when you're over there with the fans. They're going to watch everything that you do always. And if the TV isn't on you, there's how many videos from people's phones just on you?

And especially now, someone's going to be videoing him the entire game. so let's make sure we know that you're always on camera. That would be the teaching moment. It's a little bit more than that. I feel the same way you do. I did not get wrapped up in this as if it was the worst thing I had ever seen. I do not feel necessarily that it's going to be revealing of anything, although we may look back and throw all these things together,

league done messed up, $50 tickets to watch the draft. with him and his family and H&H marketing at a bowling alley, the selfie at the end of his first win against a terrible team, that he shouldn't have been overly thrilled about beating 19 to 16, but whatever, it's his first win. I chalk it up to him being excited, winning the first game, and the world didn't end because of it. But I would assume, and this would not make me believe that I had the wrong guy,

but I would assume at 22 years old that I needed to tell to him, I needed to say to him and explain to him that this was a mistake, that your job is to take that snap in that victory formation. And I would have killed them with compliments. The John Wooden thing, I always did this when I coached young kids. Give them four compliments because they're not going to hear the criticism unless you give them four compliments. So I would have said, that's a hell of a final drive. The drive before that was a hell of a final drive.

I love the run that you made. You really overcame some adversity. You delivered in the clutch to get your first win. Congratulations. I was very impressed with that. Now, as it relates to you not being on the field to take that final snap in victory formation, that is your fault. You should have been there.

That's a mistake that you made. It didn't end the world. Nobody's going to die because of it. We're all going to breathe. All right? But I want to make sure that you understand that I, as your head coach, think that's a mistake, and I won't tolerate it again. Now, there's another part of this, which is the optics.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. So are you going to bench him if it happens again? Well, is he going to ask me what are you going to do if it happens again? Well, you're threatening it. I don't have to give the punishment for the next time unless he asks me for it. And if he does, I'm going to deem that to be disrespectful, and I might bench him next week. Excuse me? You're not going to, it sounds like me telling my son.

better sit at the table during dinner, or I'm not going to give him his cookie after dinner. I won't do it. I won't give you that cookie. Are you asking me what I would do? I would tell you, I don't have an answer yet, but there would be a punishment for it, yes. There would be either a fine, or he'd miss the first series, or the first half or something. If he asks me, well, coach, what's the punishment for it if I'd do it again? I would actually deem that to be inappropriate, and, you'd and disrespectful as a follow-up question, and I might find him and bench him right then and there for that reaction.

I'm not suggesting he asked you what the punishment would be. Of course. So I don't have to give an answer to him. You also have to realize. But I'd be willing to punish him for it again. He's not going to do that very thing again, but what we've got to say is, what's the next thing that could happen? You do something else, silly.

We've got to handle it differently. Okay. They don't do it. First of all, you didn't. let me finish my thing. My thing would have finished as follows. After I killed them with compliments because he deserved them over the final two drives and said to him and then made it very clear that him not being there for the final kneel down in the victory formation, while nobody died and everybody's breathing and we're all going to live, it's a mistake. You made a mistake. The game was

not over. Well, coach, I thought it was over. That's not the point. It wasn't over. And that's fine that you thought it was over, and I'm so happy that you were super excited and wanted to celebrate it not only with your teammates on the sideline, which he did, but then with the fans as well. I thought that I think that would be great when the game is actually over. I just want to make sure you understand that while I'm not overly worked up over it, I don't think it's the end of the world. I also recognize, and I want you to recognize that it was a mistake, and it can't happen again. You got it, coach. Thanks. That's all. I might go into the optics of it.

I might go into the optics of it because it's going to blow up into a PR thing. And you can say that you don't care about that. And I would say, I don't care much about it either. But the state of this franchise right now, it's probably not best for the overall team franchise and business of the Redskins. And I want you to care about that, too. I think that's the more important part of the conversation is this is not what you needed. more than 50% of the media is going to be about this. So it's going to be important that we handle this right going forward.

If you had called me into your office, if I had done that and I go do, do, do, do, do, to the head coach's office. The first thing I'm going to say is, look, coach, they can't do that again. I'm not going to even let you coach me up on that. I think he, I think anybody will, I hope he has the awareness that he's going to do that. Right. And that would be great. Like if they had a meeting and he said, coach, before you even say what you're going to say,

and I'm going to listen to everything you're going to say, I'm just going to tell you, I am so sorry, I thought the game was over, but that's no excuse. I should have been out there. I promise you it won't happen again. That's on me. You know, the problem with it, Cooley, then, is you get to the press conference. It's not a problem. A lot of people thought it was a problem.

That the press conference became almost combative to a certain degree. He first said, you know, he broke the water bowl. water bottle he thought the game was, you know, over, and he made a mistake. And then he came back, and then he said, well, the game, you know, the game wasn't over. The game was over. And so, and then he, you know, got into it a little bit with the accuracy issues. It wasn't the cleanest press conference for him either. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that as well, because I think he's been under a lot of pressure, you know, and he's been criticized.

I think he was nervous, too, a little bit personally. But go ahead. That's the one thing he can learn the most from it. just the entire press conference. Yeah. And as a head coach, I don't think he's easy. You can have a discussion with that if you really feel close to him. You can have your PR department.

You can have somebody else to have that discussion and just go through the teaching moments from the press conference. Because I'm with you. I will also give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, but I don't want them to continue to be like that. Right. Because it won't be good for him. Exactly.

I also don't mind that if, I mean, I don't know how he feels about it, but if you walked out of that thing and said, I don't really give a shit what they think. I'm getting ready for Carolina. That doesn't bother me either, actually, on some level. Real quickly, two other things from the game. One, back to Kelvin Harmon. Do you think he's a number two receiver?

I haven't decided yet. He doesn't have the elite speed to be a real number two. Here's the thing. They're playing him as a Z, which is the off-the-ball, strong-side receiver. And I don't think he provides. what you need in terms of some of the speed elements that a true Z provides. He's more of an X receiver, but it's also that Terry's more of an X receiver.

Paul's your Z. So it's really placing him. Where do you place Kelvin? Because I think he is your single side receiver more times than not on the ball. You're a slant guy, your hitch guy. But he doesn't truly threaten the defense. I know that he got over the top on the third and long. but I haven't, he's got incredible hands, he's got to develop a little bit more as a

route runner, but I don't know if I see the true speed for him to be a pure two. He's a good blocker for a wide receiver, right? I actually think he's an H-back. Interesting. Wow. Yeah. No, I'm not me. I don't mean like the full-back lead block kind of guy, but if you wanted to go three-receiver

personnel, I think he's more of your slot, which you're utilizing with a lot of different things out of the back, not quite the back field, but behind the line of scrimmage. I think there's so much you can do in the run game, but I think he's more of almost an H-back.

Actually, one other player that just popped up into my mind, because we haven't talked about him. Gice's numbers aren't very good, obviously, but God, he runs hard, and he runs physically, and I think there have been zero gains that he's turned into one, two, three-yard gains. What do you think?

I think guys have done a good job, and he's growing as a young back. There are a couple runs that kind of stand out. One was a duo play, you know that that inside town drop play, that he bounced right through the middle and got up to the safety, and he just hit it decisively and hard. And that's a hell of a run. That's good vision. That's a good second cut.

I loved it. Another one was also a duo play late in the game that he bounced outside Donald Penn. and Donald got a holding. That plane can't bounce outside the weak side tackle. So the holding's on the back. So, one, you've got to know where you can hit plays and where you're going to, where you're going to make those cuts, but see, you've got to know where you can't hit them.

Is that really, do coaches really put that holding call on Donald Penn? If you guys remember, it was the play that Geist bounced to the outside and had his biggest run of the day. It got called back for holding. They will really downgrade the ball. back and blame him for the Donald Penn hold on that? I would. Well, Donald Penn isn't forced to hold just because he bounces it outside.

No, but if he doesn't hold, that should be a TFL. Donald Penn is soft-setting with his butt turned to the inside. That weekside tackles almost soft-setting pass to enhance an up-filled rush on that particular play. I'm just saying he's learning just like Duane's learning, but he's got some incredible innate abilities. And I also think he could be a pretty good receiver. I know he dropped one that was low to him in the flat, but I like his skill set as a pass catcher out of the backfield. I really like Darius guys. I was just saying using a example as one of the things he can grow from,

but I really think he can be a good first and second down back. You know, one of the things I was thinking about Smallwood, there were a lot of people that thought, why are they playing Smallwood so much? He played more snaps than anybody two weeks ago. He's 25. years old, he's going to be an unrestricted free agent, they may decide they want him back. I think he's pretty good. I think he's a very good player, too. I think you've got to always keep in mind that Bryce loves here. I know.

I love him. I think Bryce loved probably the guy they're looking at next year in that spot. Well, I'd be looking at Bryce Love as also, you know, another guy that can carry, you know, get first and second down carries. I'm totally with you. I'd be looking at a combination, and I know AP's back for next year if they want him back, but I'd really be looking at the combination of Geis and Love as your one-two backs and really wouldn't want to go away from those two at all.

It's Carolina the best defensive team, Haskins, will face, or was Buffalo that? They're different defensively in terms of the challenges that they present. Carolina is a really good defensive team. They're going to give him a lot of softer zone looks and make it hard on him, but they get good pressure up front with four. Keekely's a really pretty amazing player. They're good. They're good.

They're not great. You can score on Carolina. You can move the ball on Carolina. You can't make mistakes like he did last week with the ball. They'll make you pay for it. They're second only to the four. By the way, just to work clear on this, Detroit was the worst defensive team he's going to see. Maybe the Giants, when it gets late,

late in the season, but they even make it harder with some of what they do coverage wise than Detroit did in that ballgame. The Lions were not a good defensive team with their best defensive player out and their safety out. The Panthers are second in the league behind the 49ers and Sacks. And that Brian Burns guy that we sort of liked in the draft from Florida State. We didn't sort of like that. Well, you loved him. Me, me loved him. You loved him. I just liked him. I liked sweat more. You liked, you loved. You loved, you loved him. You loved him. You loved him. You loved loved Burns. Burns is having a hell of a rookie year. Real quickly on sweat, are you seeing any progress? Obviously, he had the one sack on, you know, unblocked. You know, I mean, he should

be able to get that one, but any progress from him? I'm not seeing a ton of progress from Montez right now. He's an every down player, but he is not putting together his rush moves. And he's fine in the run game. I'd prefer to see him with his hand down and a one gap kind of disruptor more than the way they're playing him, which is what I'm sure will happen next year. But he's got to find a way to put together some counter moves in his pass rush game. He is, and he's not winning with his first very often. He's not winning with a speed to power, which should be his primary move. and once he doesn't win with that you've got to find your counter move off of that

and he's not got to plan for it yet why doesn't Steven Sims return punts I can't answer that do you think he should yep on a team that can't score yep certainly seem like a good idea to me

also one last everybody thinks he should everybody everybody thinks he should and I don't mean everybody in the building I'm just saying I think everybody ever talk to, but one of the top five things that comes up. One last question. He probably doesn't return punts because of the kickoff that he dropped.

Oh, that could be a good point. One last question for the third time that I've said one last question. Is it crazy to say that Eric Flowers has played the most consistently among all of the offensive linemen this year? I think Chase Rui has probably played the most consistent. Eric Flowers has been a good player at Guard. You haven't noticed him, which is essentially as a fan what you want from an offensive lineman. He's been a pleasant surprise.

All right, let's switch subjects real quickly. What did you think of Lamar Jackson on Monday night in the Ravens? It's not just Monday night. And it's not just Lamar Jackson. It's the Baltimore fucking good, man. I don't know what to say. that game. And it's just their defense is outstanding. The way they run the ball is unbelievable. The speed that they play with on offense is ridiculous. And Lamar Jackson presents such an

unbelievable problem as a ball carrier to then as how do you defend what he can do with his legs in the past game. Greg Roman has got to get a ton of credit for what he's done with this offense, as well as Lamar Jackson's probably the MVP of the league. And I know that Russell Wilson's playing well and guys are playing well, but he is the number. No, no, it's over. It's over. If you ask any coordinator, would you rather play against Russell Wilson or Lamar Jackson, every single one will tell you Russell Wilson. No doubt. At least complement a plan for Russell Wilson. There is no plan for what Lamar Jackson is doing right now. You said before that draft, he's the best running back in the draft. And I think that included

Saquan Barkley. I think you said he's he would be the most electric running back and the best running back in the draft. But he's much more than that now, right? Like I thought watching him, and you're right, it's not just the other night. It's just that the other night was a Monday night game in the Coliseum against the defending NFC champions who are struggling, but a good defensive football team. And they

scored on their first six drives, four in the first half, first two in the second half were touchdown drives. They were six for six on touchdown drives. And then their seventh drive with RG3 in the game was a field goal drive. But it was just, it was just incredible to watch what that kind of dual threat quarterback does to a defense. And then I think he looks so much more comfortable in the pocket. I think he does too. And you have to. And you have to credit him for making good decisions. He is a... Early in the season, he made a lot of bad decisions.

And he got away with a lot of bad decisions. But he's not making bad decisions. And if that involves him running, then he's going to run. When you're going to truly know... First of all, I don't care if he's more than what he is. He's the biggest problem in the NFL right now with what he currently is. Exactly. When you're going to know if he could just handle the drop-back game

and a regular game plan and I don't when I say regular, I want what he's doing to be a regular game plan. It's fun. But when he's going to handle what Dwayne's handling right now is when he sprains his ankle

or does something like Mahomes did early in the season and he can't run. But he's in the game. That's when you'll know how good of a drop-back quarterback he is when he has to be a drop-back quarterback. Hopefully he never will. Hopefully he's healthy

because he is fun to watch. This is a fun offense. But that's when you'll know is when he's banged out 60% as a runner and the other team knows it. Essentially what happened to Robert in his second year. That's when you'll know what he is in the dropback game. If you're not what he is now, I just don't care. I mean, you know what he is right now?

He's the best football player in the league right now. That's what he is. I don't care what kind of, I don't care the way he plays quarterback. I don't care whether or not there's a one-read check-down run system. It doesn't matter. He's the best player in the league right now. And he's actually, and I went through this yesterday with Tommy, he is on a short list over the last 30 years of, 40 years of me watching sports,

a short list of one of those unique athletes' players that has become must watch. Absolute must watch. He's so electric, he's so exciting, he's so totally unique. There's nothing more to say. And I think when we did that whole draft thing, I said if he'll run the ball, I'll take him number one in the draft. Yeah. I take him number one.

And if he'll do whatever I want him to do, I'll take him number one. And I didn't quite at that point see him. I think to some extent I said that is a weapon like slash player that can throw the ball. So I forget that. But if he'll run the ball, he's the best player in the league. You know what? When I mentioned that Griffin came in and led the field goal drive, and what you just said there, it sort of makes me think about Griffin, standing on the sidelines, watching this guy play football,

and knowing that in 2012, basically at a coaching staff that brought this kind of football into the league, and it's obviously been thriving here for seven years, but Jackson's taken it to a completely different level. Really, Baltimore's taking it to a different level because it's not, you know, it's not 10, 15 percent of a scheme. it's a lot more than that in their scheme. But the biggest difference, like if Griffin's looking out there thinking to himself, that was me. No, it wasn't because Jackson's willing to play football this way. And Griffin wasn't.

I mean, there are other differences actually that I think about this. Griffin's that straight line track athlete with no vision, no ability to sort of avoid the big hit. And Jackson has great vision, great elusiveness, and is able to avoid the big hit. though he's a little bit bigger and stronger than, say, a Russell Wilson, and he will actually, you know, engage in a hit. But, yeah, not to mention the fact that one is... Maybe Robert's coaching him into that. Maybe Robert's understanding that. But to anybody watching what he's doing this year, what Robert should have been. And when Robert was willing to be the checkdown, which is what Lamar Jackson is willing to do, hey, look, I don't need to

find a checkdown. I'd rather have you run the ball up and have a bat catch it three yards in the flat. We have a better chance of getting yards if you become the runner. And when Robert was doing that, it is what Baltimore was doing. Yeah, but Jackson's a much better runner than Griffin, Cooley. I know, but Robert could still take off and run, and the fact that he took one for 70 against Minnesota. I know that. But he also got hit in angles and in situations where Jackson and Russell Wilson and guys like that, Vic back in the day, didn't get hit because he didn't have that. peripheral, you know, basketball vision, point guard vision. That's what Russell Wilson has. That's what Jackson has. That's what Vic had. Remember him just getting hit in all sorts of crazy, you know,

spots and getting tossed around like a rag doll. And, you know, there's one other big difference here, too. One was completely self-absorbed and the other seems to be a complete 100% all-in team player. We just didn't know that in 2012. You know, we found it out late in 2012 in Cleveland, though, didn't we? I just hope you never find it out with Lamar Jackson, and I hope that kind of what Harbaugh said three weeks ago on the sideline is you're going to change football for a lot of young players, and I hope it happens that way. Yeah, you know, we've been talking, the one thing that is not, the way Baltimore decided to

commit to this is the primary part of their offense. You know, he's posed as a dual threat in the pistol, you know, for most of their plays. This isn't what, you know, the Shanahan's did with RG3. It's not what the 49ers did with Kaepernick or what Seattle's done with Wilson or that, you know, Tennessee's done with Marriott or all the other quarter. Driscoll's running, you know, he probably ran seven or eight, you know, read option plays on Sunday for the Lions. We've seen this style of football and it's never gone away. It wasn't a fad.

It wasn't the wildcat as, you know, Phil Sims tried to describe it, you know, complete and utter dummy. but what Baltimore's committed to is basically making it their offense. Keep in mind, though, they also have the complement of RPO, which people weren't really running in 2012. 100% right. So you've added that other element to it where there is a true path that is a quarterback run. You know, you look back at our 2012 year, and even if it was only 10, 15% read option,

it's still 40% of the run game that wasn't looked like it. Exactly. Right. They didn't know what was going on. All I have to do is resemble it. Right. God, remember, I remember the conversations that you and I were having in 2012. You were in 2013 after you stopped playing for them and joined the radio station.

And just all of the dumb-dums, you know, on radio, in print, on covering games, they just had no idea. No, no, you guys are missing it. They are lined up, and this is part of the offense. And even though the quarterback didn't run it, it doesn't mean that it wasn't presented that way and a benefit because it was presented that way. As we've talked about so many times, you know, RG3 never threw from a cleaner pocket than he did in 2012 when he was posed as a dual threat quarterback on most of those plays when he was in pistol or shotgun. Never. It was a, it was a Phil Sims used to call it the draw play. The draw.

Greg CoSell called it. Greg CoSell, Mr. NFL film analyst, called it the wishbone or the veer. He called it the veer, actually, I think it was. Whatever. Yeah, they're going to win the Super Bowl. I think they're going to win the Super Bowl. I cannot wait for this 49ers game is going to be a good game because they're a front that has true.

true speed. So I cannot wait for this 49ers game. You want to do a quick NFL power pole with me? Sure, and then I've got to take off. All right, let's do that now. Rangham, one to five. It's time for our weekly NFL PowerPole. I think this is the first week that the top five are easy.

And you want me to go first since I sort of sprung this on you, and you can give it some thought? Yeah. Okay. I think the top five teams in the league are Baltimore, San Francisco, New Orleans, New England, and Seattle. I think at this point, it's really, you've got to really make a case to put Green Bay in there or to put Houston in there or to even put the Chiefs in there in the top five. I think it's the first time all year the top five have actually been pretty obvious. Now, the order is, you know, not as easy, but here's my order. I think Baltimore, Baltimore is the best team in the NFL. I think they're going to win the Super Bowl. And one of the things I hope for, and we can start almost the countdown to it, given the AFC picture. Baltimore and New England in the AFC title game. I hope the games in Foxborough, and I hope Baltimore goes in there and blows them out with Lamar Jackson in Foxborough. San Francisco to me is the second best team. They're going to play Baltimore and New Orleans the next two weeks. So it's going to really tell the tale for them. And the New Orleans game will be the most important.

because it's going to probably determine home field advantage or it could in the NFC title game. But I've got San Francisco number two. They're the best defense in the NFL. I think it's better than New England's. I've got the Saints at number three because I think they're really good defensively and much better than New England offensively, who is my number four team. And then I've got Seattle as the fifth best team. Even though I don't think Seattle honestly, in my personal opinion,

and I know they beat the 49ers, they beat the 40-9ers. 49ers, courtesy of a bunch of short field, a defensive touchdown, and a missed field goal by the 49ers in overtime. I think the 49ers and Saints are both better than Seattle, but I've got Seattle in at 5. Yeah, that game is interesting with San Francisco because it still should have been a tie. In overtime with two minutes, Kyle should have run at once,

so you insure a tie. But you're insane to say Baltimore is not number one. My mom would say Baltimore is. They're unbelievable. So you're saying it, too. San Francisco is absolutely, I'm saying it too. San Francisco is absolutely number two. The way they're playing right now is pretty awesome.

Garapagos finally really starting to get it. Yep. And you're really starting to see him feel more comfortable. And so him is a real thrower in their run-action game, complimenting what they do in the run game, is allowing them to score a lot of points. Kittles back. How good to Kittle looks last week?

Oh, God. He's so good. and that boot that corner post off the boot into the boot game going it's really good

I see New England as number three I still think their offense is going to get together and figure this thing out they always do they just always do

it's wild I don't know why I believe it but I do and their defense is just outstanding it's really interesting though Baltimore San Francisco

New England the three best defenses Baltimore and New England both built on DBs and secondary. San Francisco built on D-line and basic zone coverages. Three teams, two teams doing it one way, another team doing it a different way. I think Seattle is number four.

I love what Russell Wilson's done this year. He's really just a playmaker. And their defense is also very good, and if Clowny can stay healthy, their defense is menopine. And then the five spots really interesting. I don't know if I'm going to put them. at five.

But Dallas is a massive problem if they get into the playoffs. So wait a minute. You haven't given me the Saints yet, right? No. Okay. I think the Saints are probably number five, but they got run by Atlanta, and they should have, should have been down to Carolina, 34, 31. The dude missed a kick from 25 yards.

Yeah. Easy one. Right. you can, right now, people are getting yards against them. They're not as good defensively as I've thought they were. Last couple, yeah, they've had some startling defensive performances here recently at Lanna and Carolina. You're right. And so I would be, look, for some reason, Dallas isn't winning games.

They're in these games. They're not winning these games. their roster is better than New Orleans, and they are built as a true playoff game. I would not be surprised to see Dallas make a run with the ability to beat anybody in the NFC. I still feel the same way for New Orleans, and because of the records, I'm going to put New Orleans at five, but Dallas is at six, in my opinion. I agree with you on the Cowboys, but it's just Jason Garrett that just ultimately, when I think, think about them, I think, well, he's not going to beat, you know, Aaron Rogers in a playoff game or Drew Breeze and Sean Peyton in a playoff game or, you know, Russell Wilson, they did last year, or Russell Wilson and Pete Carroll in a playoff game. It's just not going to do

it. You know, it's going to be new for the 49ers. They're going to be a new team in the playoffs, experiencing it for the first time. But they have way too much talent to be a six and five football team. Way too much talent. and the game Sunday, you didn't get a chance. I was giving you play-by-play of the Patriots. He was giving play-by-play for an hour as I drove home. As you drove home from the stadium, I was giving Cooley play-by-play of the Cowboys Patriots game.

It was an intense game, and the Cowboys' defense stepped up. And, you know, it was a bad weather situation, and Dak didn't make as many plays, and Cooper was essentially a no-show. I think, by the way, they're going to destroy Buffalo tomorrow. And Aaron, remind me, before we leave for the day. I've got a quick smell test.

But I'm with you on the Cowboys. What's interesting about they play the Bills, they play the Rams, they play the Eagles on the road, they play the Bears at Soldier Field, while the Eagles have in order, okay, the dolphins, the Giants, and the Redskins, and the Eagles are struggling, but they'll win those three games, I would think.

I just think so will Dallas. Diving Dallas smokes the Bills. The bills don't have great speed on defense. So Dallas is going to be a big problem for them with the weapons they have offensively. Agreed. Really don't have anything on offense. They're not a good offense. And the bills have played such a horrific schedule.

So I don't think Dallas has any problem with the bills. The Rams are in free fall right now. Yeah. It'll be fun to watch the East play out because, like you said, the Eagles have three easy ones. but I just don't think the Eagles are at good. They just can't move the football and score points. All right, you've got to go. I appreciate this.

Happy Thanksgiving. Wish everybody out there the same, and I'll talk to you probably Sunday or before then. All right, buddy, too. All right. Chris Cooley, everybody. Let me finish up real quickly with an early smell test. You don't have to play the sounder on this.

The Cowboys are an anti-public play for the second week in a row on Thanksgiving Day. Public really likes Buffalo, believe it or not, in part because the Cowboys have some turmoil. and some controversy following that game. Jerry Jones is not happy with the situation there. They're laying six and a half. I like the Cowboys. I agree with Cooley.

I think it's more of a mismatch on paper than people realize. I think the Cowboys bounced back with like a 31 to 13 win. And then the Thanksgiving night game, Atlanta's catching seven. The public thinks New Orleans is going to destroy the Falcons. I've had a good read here on the Falcons recently. I had Tampa against them last week. and I told you the weeks before that they were a team that were going to give people headaches. They beat the Saints on the road.

I like them in a game in which they'll be fired up to play Thanksgiving night. National TV audience are getting seven. I think they keep it close and it's a really tight game to finish off Thanksgiving night football. I'll take the Falcons plus seven. So there you go. Two early smell test picks. Cowboys minus six and a half. Atlanta plus seven.

You know, pray for the smell test. because it is ill right now. It is not feeling very well over the last month and a half. All right, happy Thanksgiving to everybody. Have a great day. Obviously, we're not doing a podcast tomorrow. We'll be back on Friday with one with a full football Friday to do. But it was good to get Cooley on today.

Wish everybody the best. Have a great rest of the day. Stay safe.