The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley "Film" On Maye & Williams

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

Kevin opened with the Caps' loss in Game 1 to the Rangers before getting to the Nats, NBA Playoffs, and of course, the NFL Draft. There is sound on the show from Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye, and Daniel Jeremiah/NFL Network who seems to have changed his mind on who the Commanders will select at #2 overall. Chris Cooley jumped on for the remainder of the show with his "film" breakdowns of Maye and Caleb Williams. Cooley reveals how he ranks the top 4 QBs in the draft as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Coolie's on the show today. He'll have film breakdowns of Drake May and Caleb Williams. And then he will kind of rank the four quarterbacks

that he's done film breakdowns on and tell you who he thinks Washington should select at number two. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation. call them at 86690 Nation or head to win donation.com. Mention my name for a free, no obligation in-home quote. So I'm not going to spend a lot of time on anything other than the draft today. But real quickly here at the top, three things. One, the Caps lost game one yesterday at Madison Square Garden against the Rangers,

four to one. I watched that game start to finish. I actually thought the first period was encouraging. I mean, it was a weird period in that there were six minor penalties called. It was very closely refereed in that first period. But I thought Charlie Lindgren was everything that he had been over the last, you know, month, month and a half of the season. And they were going to need that if they were going to have a chance to pull off an upset.

And at the end of the first period, it was nothing, nothing, despite the fact that it seemed that the Rangers were the better team. And I know they are going in, but you just never know. how these individual games will play out. But, you know, the ice was tilted, as they say, and they had better opportunities. And then second and third period was kind of domination by the Rangers. They scored three goals in a two-minute, six-second span early in the second period. And it was over. The Capitals are not a comeback team. They haven't been this year. They pretty much have to be there within a goal, up one, down one to have a legitimate chance. And down-th

3-0, even though they got one back pretty quickly, the game was pretty much over. They've got to get better shots on the power play. They were 0-4 overall in the game with just three total shots on goal. Alex Ovechkin did not have a shot on goal for just the fourth time in his playoff career. The Capitals just couldn't generate enough offense. I think Charlie Lindgren, even the goals he gave. up, you know, I don't think he gave up a bad goal necessarily. I thought overall he was pretty good and he's going to have to be really good for them to have a chance to win four out of the next six. But overall,

the Rangers were just clearly the better team. I knew that going in. I don't watch a lot of hockey during the regular season, but I had enough guests on the radio show last week that said, look, the Rangers are better. And actually, many people said the Bruins would have. have been a much better matchup for the caps. But they'll get another shot tomorrow night. These series are strange. Games change significantly from game one to game two. You have all of those adjustments to be made.

We'll see if Spencer Carberry can make them. But the big one that he's got to make, they've got to get more shot opportunities. They've got to get more scoring opportunities because as good as Lindgren is, he's not going to shut the Rangers out every night. He's not going to hold him to a goal or two on four different games out of the next six. I also wanted to mention real quickly, the Nats are playing pretty well. I don't know how many people are paying attention to this right now, but the Nats are one game below 500 at 10 and 11. Now, their division is pretty good. Atlanta's 14 and 6. Philadelphia is won six in a row. Now, they just swept the White Sox, who were terrible. The Mets are 12 and 9, 12 and 9, I said.

Washington's 10 and 11. They've won two straight games. They've won three out of their last four series. They took two of three from Houston with the six-nothing shutout win yesterday. More on that in a moment. They took two of three from the Dodgers out in L.A. They lost the series to the woeful A's, but they beat the Giants in the series before that. They've got the Dodgers coming into town Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday of this week. But they got another incredible pitching performance from this dude Mitchell Parker. Mitchell Parker now in two starts has a 1.50 ERA with 12 strikeouts and no walks. Pretty amazing for Mitchell Parker, the 24-year-old left-hander from Albuquerque, New Mexico, 642, 240. And look, C.J. Abrams has been outstanding all year. He had

another stolen base yesterday. The Nats, I mean, 10 and 11. Good start. Tough division to make a lot of progress in, but a really good start to the season for them. with, again, the Dodgers coming into town for three games this week after they took two of three from the Dodgers last week. The Dodgers are 13 and 11. They're in first place in their division. But good for the Nats and good for their start. Lastly, before we get to some draft talk here in the open and then get to Cooley, the NBA playoffs are underway. And last night, Damien Lillard, without Janus Atenticumpo in the lineup for Millwall. he scored 35 points, 35 in the first half, zero in the second half. His prop bet for points last night, 35 and a half.

If you had the over and he had 35 points at halftime and you didn't win that, that is an all-time, terrible beat. part of the reason was they didn't need him to score in the second half. They didn't need to lean on him, so he didn't really shoot it. He was 0 for 5 in the second half. A couple of them were halfway down and then came out, but they didn't need him to score points because they were blowing out Indiana. But can you imagine 35 and a half having the over on your guy and he goes for 35 in the first half and he only shoots five times

and goes 0 for 5 and doesn't get to the free throw line? in the second half. Amazing. By the way, Lillard, I was thinking about him watching him last night. God, can he really shoot it? And I think he's underappreciated for his era. Steph gets, you know, the majority of the attention for being the greatest of his era. In terms of scores in the back court, right? And hardened to a certain degree, even though he does not have the success postseason-wise. and I would never even try to discuss Hardin in the same class with Steph Curry. But I'm pulling up right now the all-time scoring list. And of the players of Dame Lillard's era, well, LeBron's one, Kevin Durant's 8,

but if we look at just backcourt players, Hardin's 20, Westbrook's 24, Curry's 30, de Roeson's 31, and Chris Paul's 36. Now, I think most NBA fans really appreciate Lillard, but he's just gotten, you know, to the point where he's got to do something in the postseason. And this would be the opportunity with Milwaukee and teamed up with Janus, but Janus is hurt. So we'll see what happens. I mean, a bunch of people were picking Indiana to win this series without Janus in the series. But Lillard can certainly carry them to four wins over a team like Indiana. if Janus isn't back.

By the way, the NBA playoffs over the weekend, eight game ones, all home teams won. Not one road team pulled off a game one upset, and none of them were really that close until last night. There was only one-one possession game, and that was last night with Oklahoma City as the one seat against New Orleans, winning 94 to 92,

Gilgis Alexander SGA. had 28 and 6. He's one of the finalists, by the way, along with Luca Donchich and Nicola Yokic for the MVP. I think it'll be Yokic again, but I think SGA will finish second. And deservedly so. The NBA needs some drama in these games, though, man.

And the first weekend was drama less, for the most part. The Lakers had a lead at Denver and then gave it up, and Denver dominated them. play tonight. But by the way, the Lillard conversation about the 35 and a half makes me think of prize picks. Prize picks is the place to go to for Daily Fantasy Sports. I have the app. You should download the app. It's an easy and exciting way to play Daily Fantasy Sports. They're the largest DFS platform in North America prize picks is. It's just you picking against the numbers. Instead of battling thousands of other players, including pros, it's just you picking

more than or less than on between two players and six players and their stat projections with odds. Like I'm looking at tonight in the NBA. And I think the Lakers are going to cover tonight against Denver, just as a complete aside, they're getting seven, seven and a half. I thought they played pretty well, and I think they'll keep it close again tonight. But DeAngelo Russell really struggled in game one. Prize picks has his less than or more than number at 16 and a half points. I'm going to go over, and I'm going to combine that with his teammate, no, not LeBron James, but I'm going to go over 24 and a half points for Anthony Davis. So more than 24 and a half for Anthony Davis, more than 16 and a half for DeAngelo Russell on my prize picks app. It pays three to one on that two more than combo. So a $20 wager pays $60. A $100 wager pays $300. Yeah, prize picks is a great spot to play fantasy sports. It's the number one fantasy sports app. They've got so much in

the way of hoops on every given night hockey as well. Go download the prize picks app today. Use my code Sheehan for a first deposit match of up to $100. Download the app today. Use my code Sheen, S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a first deposit match of up to $100. Prize picks, pick more, pick less. It's that easy. All right. Time to talk some NFL draft. And before we get to Cooley, I've got three different pieces of sound to play for you. And I'm going to start with Jaden Daniels. We heard from his agent last week on Twitter. We heard from his PR firm slapping down the agent who liked some tweets that were bashing the Washington process for the top 30 visits. But we have not really heard from Jaden Daniels

since maybe one of those press conferences he did at the Combine or maybe his pro day. But he was on a podcast with Shannon Sharp and Chad Ochosinko, Chad Johnson, is his name today. He changed it back to Chad Johnson. Now, I'm going to tell you, I listened to several of the clips, and Shannon and Chad don't really give Chaden much of a chance to talk. This is an interview of Jaden Daniels, but they basically talk pretty much back and forth between themselves for much of it. But I picked one sound bite out to play. And you'll hear Shannon turn it to Chad, who sets it up.

And it has to do with him being drafted potentially by Washington. Here's how it sounded. Go ahead, Ocho. Go ahead. Oh, yeah. I say when you think about what was very important for quarterbacks, especially coming out in the draft. You think about the situation at LSU.

You look at your supporting cast that was around you. They make your job very easy. Malik neighbors and the rest of the receiving corps. At number two, based on, again, I'm not Mel Kuiper, but they talk about Caleb Williams going first. Obviously, he would be going to the Bears. The commanders are number two. And I'm thinking you, number two, period.

Look at this, look at this supporting cad that you have in D.C. They got some dogs over there. What? John Dotson, McLaren, McLearn. Man, listen, boy. But you're going to be in heaven.

You're going to be in heaven. And I think it's so imperative that you go to the right situation so you have your receiving court. Once you got a receiving cord and they're able to build around you and you can just be you. Yeah.

But it's going, I'm not saying it's going to be a breeze, but I just know. I know the work you put in because it shows up on film. So the transition from college to the NFL, it's going to be awesome. It's going to be awesome.

Sure. So I hope you were able to pick up the minimal amount of Jaden Daniels speaking that was allowed during that clip. As Chad Johnson talked to him about the opportunity that Washington presents. But he said, quote, about Washington's wide receiver group, they've got some dogs over there, closed quote. So a compliment for, The team that last week seemed to be, you know, according to the agent, maybe some of the noise it was created, not necessarily at the top of his list.

Look, I think he realizes, you know, that first of all, it's not his choice. Secondly, it's not a bad opportunity. That it's a different organization that it's been, that there's a lot good going on, and that he could come in and potentially resurrect an entire franchise. and its fan base. Anyway, I wanted you to hear that. The next thing I wanted you to hear was Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL network. Daniel Jeremiah has essentially been all in on Drake May to Washington in his discussions of the draft

and his mock drafts. But it appears as if he is changing his mind. Hear what he said today on the Pat Maca. Fee show. Everything in my gut was kind of saying, now this feels like Washington, Drake May, kind of bigger, more physical guy, it kind of fits them a little better. I had talked to people

that, you know, had been discussing this with Dan Quinn and his buddies around the league and they said he kept talking about I need to find my Matt Ryan, and I went to a Super Bowl with Matt Ryan. So that's why I was kind of hung up on and I was sitting there going like, okay, well, that feels like Drake May would be kind of more of that type

of player. So that's why I've been thinking this whole process that Drake May fits better with Washington. And then now as you're coming down the home stretch, it's like, okay, there's too much. It's some point in time it's like I can't inject my own personal opinion here. This is just overwhelming that everybody that I talk to is saying that it's going to be Jaden.

So that's why I have it there now. Wanted to get that in because, you know, several of you have pointed out to me that while there has been much more in the way of Jaden Daniels to Washington at number two, some key guys like Daniel Jeremiah have been sticking with Drake May to Washington at 2, and it sounds like he is changing his mind. Lastly, I wanted to play some sound of Drake May. Drake May was on a podcast.

The podcast is Kevin Clark, who was with Omaha Productions. I don't know much about Kevin Clark. He's got a football show for Omaha productions and used to be with the ringer, it looks like. But he had Drake May on his show. And he asked Drake May about Washington's visit last week. Here's what Drake May said. It was one of the cool visits I've been on. I think, you know, always kind of different places you go and see kind of a steak dinner spot.

And, you know, just you're surrounded with, you know, the head coach and GM and quarterback coaches. and then the commanders took an approach of all of us being together and see how we interact and getting a chance to swing the golf club a little bit. I enjoy it. You know, be around the other guys. You know, got to meet a lot of different guys throughout the process. And a lot of, you know, guys I saw in high school recruiting. I remember Mary Smith.

I tried to get him committed to Alabama when I was committed there in high school. In full circle. I know JJ well and seen Jaden and those guys was, I think it was a really cool experience for me. I think, you know, we all got our separate time with coaches we need to. It's not like we didn't do any of that. but talked off just a way for us to get out and do something fun the evening before. Were you the best golfer there? I like to say I was.

I think I had the best swing. So I think I was hitting it pretty good. But JJ McArthur was hitting it well as well. But you thought it was just a good different experience to kind of meet the guys. Yeah, it changed it up. I thought it was pretty sweet. Pretty sweet, Drake May said about Washington's top 30 visit set up last week. I've heard he's a really good golf.

I think his high school coach told us that when he was on about a month ago. Or maybe it was somebody else that I heard say that about him. But you know what? Maybe the reason Jaden Daniels didn't love it here last week, if that's even true, is maybe he's not a golfer. And, you know, you know how it is when you're doing something that you've never done before and it can be and feel a little bit awkward. Maybe that was it.

But anyway, Drake May talking about Washington's top 30 visit, first time we've heard from him on how they handled it and he liked it. And it's a perfect segue into Chris Cooley's film breakdown of North Carolina quarterback Drake May. We will get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I want to tell you about Harry's. Many of you have probably heard of Harry's razors and shaving products, maybe even from this podcast. They've been an occasional advertiser over the years. I'm a customer. I have been for a while now.

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Get started with a $13 trial set for just $3 at harries.com slash sheen. That's harries.com slash S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a $3 trial set. Coolie is with us with two more film breakdowns in hand, Drake May and Caleb Williams. We'll get to Drake May to start here in a moment. But first, let me tell you about MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code first and foremost, and you will qualify for a free cash bonus on your initial sign-up. So you use my promo code when you go to MyBooky.org, Kevin, D.C., and they'll put free cash into your account based on the size of your deposit.

Now, they've got all the draft prop bets up. Right now, number two overall, Jaden Daniels is still the favorite at minus 191. Now, we've seen them higher in a lot of places, and those odds came down a little bit late last week. But at my bookie right now, Jaden Daniels, minus 191, the favorite to be the number two overall pick. Now, that doesn't mean necessarily it's to Washington. It's just that he would be the number two overall pick. Washington could trade the pick. I don't anticipate that they will.

But Daniels is the favorite at minus 191. And then Drake May comes next at plus 174. Excuse me, plus 174. So if you want to bet Jaden Daniels, you've got to bet $191 to win $100. Drake May, you bet $100 to win $174. J.J. McCarthy, by the way, a bit of a long shot for number two at plus $1,000. 50. John Kime was on yesterday's show. Kime actually thinks that if it's not Daniels and he believes it will be Daniels, that's his best bet right now. He actually thinks McCarthy would potentially be the pick if it's not Jaden Daniels instead of Drake May. I thought that was interesting, an interesting, I guess, hunch from Kime on yesterday's show. But anyway, mybooky.orgie.org.com. for not only all of your draft needs, betting needs, but they've got all the NBA playoffs,

all the NHL playoffs. They've got a first-rate online casino as well. MyBooky.ag, mybooky.com promo code Kevin D.C. So Cooley did last week on April 13th's show, Jaden Daniels and J.J. McCarthy. If you miss that, it's available in past episodes on the website. The Evansheanshow.com or you can go back and look for it on Apple or Spotify or wherever you are getting this show today. So he's already done Daniels and McCarthy. He loved Daniels. And he said at the very end of that particular show nine days ago, I think I'm going to really like Drake May. So with that, I will turn it over to you. Drake May, what did you think? So I thought I would love Drake May.

And I do like Drake May a lot, and there's probably more intangibles and high-level upside with May than anybody else in the draft. But there's more downside with May than in the... anybody in the draft. Kevin, it's crazy because you're watching this dude who's 22 years old, right? Like he's a red shirt, played two years at North Carolina. It's 22 season at North Carolina, and they've got

a ton of talent around him, and he's got the end of having this excellent season, and he makes a ton of big time plays. And I don't want to take it away from the 2023 season or what the Tarhills were, but they weren't the same team. Offensive line that weren't at all the same. Their receiving group

was entirely different. It's almost like the Josh Allen effect to some extent at Wyoming, where he had that phenomenal year and then his senior year, he comes back to play for Wyoming, and they were dog shit around him. It's North Carolina, it's not Wyoming, so you're never going to be full dog shit, but he doesn't have the same team.

So you're evaluating a guy that doesn't just have opportunities around him in the way he did the year before. the positives for me he is in my opinion of the four quarterbacks arm talent-wise ability to do things with his arm the best quarterback his ability to change arm angles to tempo throws to put a lightning bolt into throws to get the ball down the field when it's good when he's in rhythm when it's good it's as good as anybody in the draft it's better than anybody in the draft he's awesome it's Mahomes-ish and you know it's funny because you say this now

and it's like every one of these young quarterback should start having this skill set and it's more and more common it's not always to stand tall up in the pocket and reach back and I mean he can make every single throw and it's awesome

he's also got a ton of arm strength and he's a guy that he does not have to sit, plant his feet drive off his back foot, but to throw the ball 50, 55, 60 yards down the field. Like, he's drifting into throws, and he's making throws 40, 50 yards down field on point. So you see that with Maine.

You're just like, wow. It is a true wow effect when you watch it. It's great mobility. What did you say real quickly? You said every quarterback should be coming out with that skill set. Were you talking about kind of the off platform or the arm angle? Yeah, the terminology for it. but it's like it's a baseball player.

It's a shortstop. Yeah, right. Got it. Yeah. You know, the, we're not, like, every quarterback is not a center field. They're crow hopping into every single throw. Yeah. You know, you're a second baseman.

You're a shortstop. And you're able to make that throw off your hip. You're able to make that throw off the side of your shoulder. You're able to step back and truly sling it. You make every throw. But we're not, you know, or we're not the pitcher. You know, we're not in a wind-up for every. throw.

But it's so much more common. And I think it's so much more common at this point because some of the stuff with Moe, some of the guys that have done, Aaron Rogers is another guy, that now high school coaches are looking at their quarterback saying, this is how you have to throw the ball.

We're going to teach you the mechanics of throwing a football. I still think it's relevant to teach the mechanics of footwork, and I think, you know, we'll talk about that with Drake. Drake May, because footwork actually changes a lot in the dynamic of the accuracy of a passer and how you get

through progressions. But as far as mechanically throwing the ball, if my dude can throw it accurately, I don't care what angle it's coming out at. And make him throw it from every angle. He really can't. He can throw it off platform. He can throw it, run into his right. He can throw

it, drift in any way. It's really, really impressive. He's big. He's big. He's athletic. I think he can run. and he can move and he can roll right and he can scramble and make big time plays for you

extending plays and as far as scrambling and getting out of the pocket and making plays so there's a ton of potential with him there and I think he's athletic enough that you see

even on another level that he's going to be able to void it'll be elusive he'll be able to make plays and extend in the NFL it's not a call college kid who is beating up on pit. So, the guy that I think

a game where he had a lot of, you know, scramble, he had some big time scrambles in that particular game that you mentioned and through, you know, kind of a left-handed pass, I think, for a touchdown. Yeah, it was, it was fun. And, you know, that was actually in that he started really slow.

He started inaccurate. He started slow. He started struggling some. But he ends up scrambling through late first quarter in the second quarter and starts to find his rhythm almost through scrambling.

And then he starts making quite a few more accurate at that point. I think he started off completing like six or seven in a row but then it was easy swing passes and screens and stuff. He ends up scrambling around

and that gives them some juice. The other thing I didn't mention as far as arm strength or arm is, I think you've got a quick release, Kev. To me, it's in and out.

You know, it's not this long extended drawn out release. I think he's got a quick release. He's got the ability to get rid of the ball quick. That's obviously super helpful. Right.

But I don't know. You watch him, and if you were just to put together a highlight film, Drake May, it's amazing. You can put together a really cool highlight film

where you're watching this guy go, wow. The problem is that you can put together a really, really great low light film. Drake May. And that's, I think, everyone's concerned when you read it and you hear everyone say that, I mean, this is an inconsistent guy and he makes decisions. It's because he does.

And so for me, when I look at the negatives, start with this. You can't make bad decision a worse decision. You can't make a bad play, a worse play. And he does that over and over and over again. he's throwing picks that you're just scratching your head. What are you doing, bro? I think he wants to see guys open. And I don't think if he doesn't see guys open,

he's immediately off script or out of the play or out of the pocket. And a lot of times if he doesn't see guys open early out of the pocket, he's throwing balls up for grabs. And he was picked off a ton. And he had a lot of potential pick that weren't, picked because defenders in college have terrible hands.

The NFL have bad hands. But based on the way you watch it, he's an interception machine in his first year in the NFL. He's going to make these types of throws in these types of plays. I think he processes really average.

As far as getting from the one read to the two read or understanding how to move a safety to get to the two read, I think it's super average processing speed. Now, it's overcome in a lot of ways with this release and his ability to get the ball out where you're,

it looks more on time than I think a lot of times it is. To me, he wants to see his one read truly open or truly covered before he's moving on to his two read without just understanding. This is here, it's not here. I can make this throw or I can't make this throw. So that is a struggle

for him. And honestly, you look at a young kid who probably, and by no means of my suggestion that he shouldn't come out, be the second overall pick in the draft or the third overall picking the draft, but he would benefit from that year in the college system. It'll take a lot of patience for coaching staff.

They're going to have to build around him. They're going to have to develop around him. They're going to have to start him slow. And he'll make a ton of plays that are not expected plays, but he'll have a ton of misses that are unexpected misses. His footwork is not good. He's jumpy in the pocket. And so instead of, like, if you're taking a three-step drop or even just step out of gun,

he's bouncing. He's up, down. It's a lot of jumps, a lot of bounces. It's a lot of extra wasted movement, which then I think leads me to the next aspect of this is he's consistently inaccurate. You just put on a game and just watch throws. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, just throws. And don't look at anything else.

He said, where the ball is. I'll find balls at feet. I'll find balls overheads. I'll find balls up back hips. up, like over and over, and it's not necessarily, like, I think he's inaccurate throwing the ball of the middle of the field in a certain range. It's not that. It's inaccuracy everywhere.

And then three years later, he's thinking to throw that's a laser as far as accuracy. So it's just a consistent inaccuracy. And to me, that ultimately comes from a feat, never being set, never being ready to throw, and then always wanting to not see his one read and move. instead of just resetting and planting and pivoting in the pocket he's got to run, got to move. So

my problem is is not the unbelievable talent that I think this guy possesses because he does and there's an incredible upside to Drake May and I would love to see it because it'd be a lot fun in the NFL, it could be a great quarterback man but it's the ultimate

negatives that scare me enough that I see in May. Bad balls decisions, misreads, poor reads, and footwork throughout. When I look at May, I would love to have the kid. If you're the third pick and Williams and Daniels go off the board, you're ecstatic. I think there's actually a decision to be made. I think it may be closer with the Michigan quarterback in May.

McCarthy, May? Yeah, J.J. McCarthy. May, who goes three and four. Because some of the negative is unknown potentially with McCarthy. You haven't seen it all. You've seen the good and you've seen the bad with Drake May. I mean, it's out there. So you mentioned having an issue with the jumpiness in the pocket, the footwork in the pocket. I've noticed that he drifts a lot in the pocket, sometimes into pressure. Why does a quarterback drift in the pocket? Have you seen that?

And why does it happen? I think it's an inability to process. And so I think instead of being incredibly sure, if I don't have number one where I want it, what's the reason? What's the defensive look? What's the back end and why is number two open? Or what's the back end and why is number two

clearly never going to be open? So I can immediately go to three or I can go to check. I think it's, I don't have this open. I'm not sure why. And because I'm not sure why, I can't really come back to, because I really don't know what the hell is going on there. So I got to run. I got to move.

I got to come off script. And then off script I can find a way to see something open. To me, it's because he needs to see it open instead of knowing where it's going to be open. That's a huge difference between an elite quarter. and a guy that's getting there. There's no reason, Kevin, to say that this is not something he can be taught, that it can be learned, that can be coached. I just don't think it's there right now.

Right. And that's why we'll talk about Caleb Williams, but I think that's why everyone's so high on Caleb Williams is he can do all those things as far as cramble and moving around. But he's got that certainness. about where do I go next with the ball? I don't think Drake may have it right now. But again, like I said, to me, it's something that you can coach.

The thing that will be tougher with him is how to set his feet. Like, we need you to set your feet a little bit better in the pocket. When you're bouncing, that's, I'm not a quarterback, man. When you're back there just hopping, that's when you get inaccurate. Instead of being able to just drive and throw. What else on May? Well, I think the other thing that you do consider with Drake May is when you start looking at what people say about him and what, you know, the conversation of him as a teammate and a leader is everything comes out incredibly positive.

Right. The background, everything behind him, his work ethic. And so when you're looking at some of the negatives, you're saying, hey, this is, and I'll bet you he's a guy that would sit there in the media of the combine and say, hey, I know I'd work my feet. And we went through this and we worked on this film stuff. I know it's something I got to work on and I want to work hard on. I think when you look at some of the intangles and all that when he sits down and talks to teams, I bet he's really likely. Right. Yeah, apparently so off the charts.

And it seems like your teammates love him, his coaches have loved him, you know, when you hear kind of a buzz around the league that the immeasurable are there. All right. Which honestly,

to finish with me, I'm punting on a dude if he doesn't have that. Right. I've seen enough, I've learned enough, I've been around enough quarterbacks, I've seen it years,

based on personality, personality traits and it can make it two years you can make it a little bit but it doesn't last with that dude and that dude

has to lead your team he has to lead your offense their bones minimum he's the one that's the huddle he's the one that's in all the in all the instill that dude's got to lead your offense he's got to get guys

to be able to follow him to make sure that we're out throwing in the summer to make sure we're doing all these things it's the quarterback it's nobody else All right, let's, I want to hear what you say about Caleb Williams. Let's do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast.

The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled UNI-F-Y-D Healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big-time world. class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me, we all understand the importance of mental and physical well-being and proper recovery for top-notch performance. That's why I'm excited that Unified Healing is sponsoring the podcast now. Unified Healing is a new and super innovative global network of wellness centers powered by energy enhancement system or EE system. If you haven't heard of the EE system yet. Listen up. This technology promotes wellness, deep relaxation, purification, and rejuvenation. Whether you're here in the DMV or anywhere else across the globe, access to a center is easy and affordable. Interested in experiencing the EE system technology

for yourself, we'll go to unifiedhealing.com slash sheen to learn more and find a center near you. That's Unified, spelled, Unified, I-F-Y-D-Healing.com slash Sheen. No material or testimonies on the Unified Healing website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EE-E system. We'll continue with Cooley here in a moment. We'll get his film breakdown of Caleb Williams,

and then we will get him to kind of wrap up everything from the last week and a half of film breakdowns and talk about what he thinks Washington should do at number two. But before we continue with Chris, this is a big week for us. Of the non-regular season weeks during the NFL season, there are probably four or five weeks in which we have a big bump. in listenership, and this is one of those weeks. So I would ask all of you who haven't rated or reviewed the show, if you could spare a minute, you could even pause us right now and rate us on Apple and Spotify, in particular. Apple also gives you a chance to write a quick one to two sentence review.

So five stars, if you see fit, with a quick one to two sentence review, really helps us out. Subscribing to the podcast is a tremendous help. following us on Apple and Spotify. It's the plus button on Apple podcasts in the upper right-hand corner on Spotify. It's down the left-hand side where you just hit the follow button or hit the plus button. And that has you following the podcast. So if you have a moment or two and you can do that, that would be much appreciated. We continue with Chris. And why don't you tell us what you saw when you watched Caleb Williams. I know you've seen a lot of Caleb Williams more than the other quarterbacks,

won the Heisman Trophy in 2022. But after watching the film on Caleb Williams, what did you think? I think he's an NFL quarterback. I think it's very apparently you're watching an NFL quarterback. I don't know if you're watching this guy that's so dynamically different in terms of talent than a guy like Jane Daniels. I've seen way more consistent to you than a guy like Drake May. and I've seen everything from Caleb Williams.

And even in the bat, I see a guy that I think still understands where he's at and can perform. But is it like a foregone conclusion that he's the sure one and Daniels is the two? I'm not. I don't know if I fully buy that. And I don't think I've watched enough of all of them to make that up front. But I don't know, Jeff. All right, they're good and the bat from Caleb Williams. to me, the number one good

as far as processing into the NFL or production in the NFL is I see a guy that clearly can go from one to two to three to understand the three, understands where his guys are, that can throw underneath that knows how to read the field from deep to short, from short to deep, depends

on how the play works, that knows where he's going with the football, is able to distribute the football, and able to get his guys going. He can scramble in the pocket as good as anybody. But he's not, like, he is probably the worst for the four athletically, if that makes sense. He can get out of the pocket and he can run, he can move. I just don't see a guy that's going to be leaving the pocket a ton. Really? And Caleb Woods. Interesting. I see,

I don't see a guy that's going to be taking the ball 20 yards downfield very often. Okay. It's 40. He looks like a 4 to 840 guys. I don't know, but he was, you know, I mean, I'm sure you'll talk about it, but there was like Houdini, like, moments of him being able to escape pressure. Oh, he's incredible. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. His escapeability in the pocket is awful. It's not because he's overly athletic or overly fast, though. Right. That's interesting. Yeah. No, I don't want to take away from what is probably, like, his best skill set, which is evading pressure and making throws because he's incredibly good at it. In fact, he probably utilizes it more than he even has to.

Like, he is awesome at avoiding back there and understanding where pressure is coming from and understanding how to pick a blitz is, and where he's got to move to be able to get out of the pocket, and then his ability to make throws out of the pocket is awesome. By the way, he's the best of the four when he gets out of the pocket at squaring his shoulders to downfield to make throws, which makes him very accurate.

as he extends plays outside. A little pump-fake stuff. You see so many times where he will avoid or go up through the A-gaps of the pocket, but then pause because he knows a line of scrimmages, so he's still trying to make a throw-down bill. In a lot of these cases, you're like, dude, just take seven yards.

There's a lot of times of three things you think he just scramble for seven yards, but he's still trying to make a throw-down field, and he knows where he's going with the ball downfield. He can make off-platform throws. He can make arm-angle throws. He tempos balls really, really well. Like, he can throw the touch ball. He, a lot of times you go, like, watch him with those little screens,

but the screens out, the slip screens, where he's throwing the ball off his hip almost to avoid throwing it into a defensive end around the corner. Like, bubbles really, really good. Make every throw in the field. I think he throws a good deep ball. I think there could be some work done on this deep ball. I think he can drive it to the middle of the field.

Caleb Williams can essentially do everything with this. He can keep his team in games, which he consistently did. He got to make throws to stay in games. His RPO stuff was really, really good. Ball plays when I thought was good throughout. And for the most part, I think he's really smart with the football. Now, there are times when you watch games that he's not. Like, if you watch the Notre Dame game last year, which is by far as worst game,

he throws three picks in the first half. He also fumbles exchange with the running back in the first half and has a sack fumble in the first half, but I think he recovers. There's five turnover-type plays in the first half of the Notre Dame game. Also, he had zero protection through that entire game, and it looks like Notre Dame is the fearsome for some. And I don't really see him flinch. and he had some bad throws

over the middle of the field. And by the way, most of his inaccurate throws or bad throws are drifting backwards. He's doing it so to do anything, but when he's drifting backwards, that's where he gets in trouble with throws.

So if he avoids that backwards drift, he was fine. And by the way, it throws in the Notre Dame game. I think one of them, you're like, what are you doing? But two of the other picks are just misfires.

they're inaccurate throws drifting. He's got a guy. He just misses the target high and it ends up being a pick. I do think that there are times that he makes some risky throws off script or outside of the pocket, but ultimately I don't see that being a huge problem. I think it's a little bit of hero ball or having to make a play situation. I don't necessarily love his accuracy in that intermediate. range.

And then when watching four or five games, I was like, what am I missing? Why are like, he six two, barely. I don't think he sees it

from six to 15 yards very well in the middle of the field. That's part of, I mean, man, setback, plant, throw a slant, drive a slant,

awesome. All of a sudden, we got something over the middle and he's like trying to stand tall and drift and he's missing throws. And I, those couple inches make a huge difference. I don't think it's going to hurt him

overall as a quarterback. But I think he does miss some throws in the middle of the field and getting some trouble with some throws in the middle field. But ultimately, you see this sure thing to me. You see a guy that's able to process to be able to go through the, by far the best footwork of any one of these quarterbacks. In the rhythm where he's not going to get out of the pocket, you can pull a ton of these, where he sets, he'll go three out of gun, he'll hit his back foot, right?

You'll look at it. I'll even pump it. turn it down. Pivot. Back, road, stage, planet, two hands on the ball, planet. Drive, look at two. Pivot, drive, look at three steps. But it's the most cleaned up feet of anybody of the four that we've looked at. Or the first four that will be taken.

And so his processing, his feet, his mechanics, his arm strength. Overall, this is the purest. So Caleb Williams is the purest overall. he's got the entire package. I think there's a little missing from every one of these dudes, but I think Caleb Williams is the most certain of all of them, which I guess makes him clear and define number one. But you...

My problem is, is I think Jaden Daniels and Drake may have more upside in Caleb Williams, but who the hell knows? Really? So do you see what some see with Caleb Williams, which is, you know, kind of a comp to Patrick Mahomes with a lot of his escapability and off-schedule plays? Well, you could comp it by saying

he's able to escape and move and create from the pocket, but I don't see that in his movements the same. Mahomes is, to me, more fluid and more natural as an athlete than Caleb Williams. I don't know if I'm missing something here with Williams. I'm not seen enough. And by the way, please, do not take this as I'm not saying he's in, I think he's a bad athlete. I'm not saying that.

We're trying to comp him to the best ever doing that. Yeah. Yeah, and it is probably his number one attribute. I mean, the off-script stuff is incredible. It is. But I just, when I watch him back there doing that, I don't see Mahomes. Well, athletically, rank the four quarterbacks that you have, broken down in terms of the best

all around Daniels one May McCarthy Williams but I wouldn't put this on a like this isn't a wide gap besides I think Daniels is a little bit I think there's a stretch between Daniels and then the next three I don't think anyone would confuse that I think the next three are in the

ballpark in the same ballpark. Together, the three together. Not the same ballpark as Daniels. No. Right. All right. So you're the general manager. You have the number one overall pick.

Who are you selecting? Dave, Daniel. So Daniels would be your number one. Uh, number two, your, your Daniels is off the board and you've got the number two pick. Who are you selecting? Uh, both of them. them are off the board. You've got the number three pick who are you selecting?

Derek May. So you would take May over McCarthy? I would, but I'd know there was risk involved. And then so fourth would be McCarthy. And that's without watching Pennix. But it would still be McCarthy because I just, the injuries that Pennix has had, and I understand what we've talked about, that it's been a few years since he's had any, but we have three ACL tears. He's got, he's 32 as far as the injuries he has he's not 30 oh yes no I'm not as far as the injuries right in injury years he's 32 years old he's in the best shape of his lifestyle so just to be clear

for everybody listening if you were Washington's new GM Adam Peters and Caleb Williams went number one overall to Chicago which we all expect will happen on Thursday night at number two overall in the 2024 draft, you would select Jaden Daniels. No question. All right. If this was a, if I was Chicago, and there's no, like, no politics involved in this,

I'm just Chicago, and I'm going out to play a flag football game. I'm taking Jaden Daniel. Well, I know, but it's not flag football. No, I understand that, but if we're just going out for fun to take the best player in the draft without any politics or anyone saying, man, if you were to take Daniels and Williams does well, you can get fired. I'm taking Daniels. Build a team around, Jane Daniels.

You know, the funny thing about the flag football comment is that so many people's biggest concern about Daniels is that he's going to get hurt in the NFL. He does need to make some better decisions as a real. runner. Still, though, there are times, especially if you're struggling some as a rookie quarterback that you bow up and on third and 12, take one for that extra yard, there's some spark to it. Yeah, I know.

So in all of the years that you've been doing this for, you know, our show or Zabe and Galdi's show or for the podcast, how good do you think these quarterbacks? are compared to other drafts. We're going to have four quarterbacks probably drafted in the top five picks that's never happened in the history of the draft. Do you think these are really good quarterbacks that should be drafted in the top five? Williams and Daniels are one and two. I'm not sure that it would be fully neat dependent on quarterback that I'm taking

May or McCarthy at three and four. It's just such a quarterback-dependent and heavy league now. And it's the way teams are built. It's the way the refs call games. You have to be able to throw the ball in the NFL. And so it's such a quarterback-dependent league. I don't know if May, coming out as a red-shirt sophomore,

and McCarthy having thrown the ball, you know, sometimes in games 14, 15 times, are my true and defined three and four. There's still a ton of unknown. I think 10 years ago, these guys are in the 20s, maybe even later. I don't know if it's the best all-time quarterback class I've ever seen. But it's impossible to predict that. Right.

So I don't know, well, I do know that you weren't following any of what happened at the end of last week, so I will just tell you. So Washington had top 30 visits. You know what these top 30 visits are, right? Yeah, I think so. No, I don't. I'm an idiot. Did you take top 30 visits?

Top 30 visits, every team is allowed to have 30 players come to their facility, come to their city. Yeah, I did that. So Washington had basically 20 players, including four quarterbacks, Pennix Jr., McCarthy, May, and Daniels, all in at the same time, along with roughly 15 or 16 other players. They took them to top golf, they took them out to dinner, and basically there was one-on-one time, but not as much maybe as other teams do. Other teams have done this. The 49ers have done it.

The Patriots have done it before. know that anybody's ever heard of 20 players at a time, but I'm just curious if you have a reaction to that, you know, way of doing visits, just kind of get these guys together and then kind of observe them with, you know, other players. I did two visits and I did one and the other. So when I came to Washington, Joe Gibbs picked me up from the airport and Joe drove and we went to Morton's. and then Joe met me for breakfast at Lansdown and then we went to the facility

it was me and Robert Gallery Robert Gallery and I so it was just the two of us and we spent all the individual time and then I went to Dallas and it was at least 20 players and you had your your one-on-one 20 minutes with Bill Parcells

and your one-on-one eight minutes with Jerry Jones and the rest of it you were just in a room and hanging out. It was more of a show off their facility and show off their stuff and hang out. I'm sure the quarterback's had a fun time and everyone has a fun time

and you go do some fun things, but personally, I want, I want, the guy I, the guys I'd really want, if there's, you know, three or four that I know I really like and really want, I want to get to know more of that. I want to spend some time on,

I want to see what they know. I want to talk to him. I don't need to see him interact with the other quarterback in the draft. So, Jaden Daniels agent basically liked two tweets that were critical of the way Washington handled those last couple of days of top 30 visits, which then Jaden Daniels' PR firm basically slapped down the agent and said, Jane Daniels will be, you know, excited to play for any NFL team that drafts him. Would any of that bother you? No. What if Jaden Daniels said that he didn't want to play for Washington?

Because they wanted to visit with everybody on a weekend and take him to top golf, then he's soft. Well, then it would bother you. If he's soft? Yeah. I don't think he's soft. Right. I'm just saying.

You just said it wouldn't bother. Here's the thing. He wants to know that he's the number two overall, that they're not interested in anyone else. He's their sweetheart. Okay. I don't think it's a problem to get to know all of these guys. I don't see it as a problem.

I personally as a team would just rather get to know my guy or the guy I really want. Right. You want to sit in a room with him and see what he knows and see how smart he is and see how dedicated to football he is and all that. I want to wake up and have breakfast with him. Where did you go to breakfast? You went to Lansdown with Joe and Robert Gallery?

Robert Galley missed breakfast. They didn't draft him. No, they didn't. I think the Raiders did, which was a big mistake. He was late for breakfast. Did he go to dinner with you at Morton's the night before? Yeah, he went to dinner. But he really was late for breakfast?

Yeah. That's kind of tough. In the bottom of Lansdown, it was the first time I'd ever seen an omelisk station. I thought it was really cool. Yeah. What about, and so it was just Joe, you and Robert Gallery at Mortons for dinner? No, it was Don Bro and Jack Burns and Rennie Simmons and the offensive staff. Okay. Dan wasn't there? No, I don't think so, no.

No, what I was saying is you just said then he's soft. What I'm saying is if, for whatever reason, this process, last week, did make him turn him off a little bit, and the agent was just sort of expressing how they collectively felt about the way Washington did it. I asked you if that would bother you, if you knew that Jaden was bothered by the process. I don't know that he was or wasn't, and I, you know, I think the agent just, you know, maybe they were caught off guard by it, and the agent was stupid to like tweets where it would turn into something because everything right now is turning into something, you know,

on these quarterbacks a week before the draft. But that wouldn't, if you felt like he was insecure about being around the other quarterbacks, wouldn't that bother you or not? If I truly felt he was insecure, I just don't even know if I see that. I think it's so, this whole thing, so sparse. The entire conversation is so sparse to what it actually is and what it actually means.

Right. Probably so. They're going to draft him second overall. He's going to walk out on the stage. He's going to be so elated. Right. I don't think there's anything behind it that will turn into anything. If it is, if it did and it came back, it's like, I just can't believe that they would even think about doing this. Then it is that that would bother.

me a little bit. Right. I would say, what's this dude's problem? Like, it's a business. Learn to deal with the business. At some point, there's somebody else. They're always going to want to talk to other players, no other players. It's a business.

Yeah, no, I think, I mean, I think what you were trying to say is just in terms of what we know, the information that we know is just sparse. Like, it's just, it's a lot of, as Kime said yesterday, on the podcast. He's like, it's just a lot of noise right now. And it's hard to know what's real and what isn't. But like with a 24-year-old kid, and I'm not just saying this because I want them to draft Jaden Daniels people who are listening, but if it were Drake May and I wanted Drake May, these kids should, of course they're going to have a preference.

They're going to want to be somewhere where they're comfortable, where they maybe they've been before. This kid's never lived on the East Coast. But it doesn't mean that a year from now, He's not going to say, oh, my God, I don't know why I ever sweated it. I love this place. I love the people. It's a great place.

Wouldn't you be more? Wouldn't it bother you more if you had this amazing weekend where you were picked up and cated around by the coaching staff and taken care of? He just thought, wow, that was awesome. And then one day later, they did the exact same thing with Drake May where they dedicated all their time to. good? You could also do? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that I thought you were going to say

if you know, if you were so excited about how well you were treated and you were into the top golf and you're into all this stuff and it's like that was the biggest takeaway from the weekend rather than you know, I like the way Cliff Kingsbury's designing the offense. I like some of the questions

he asked. I think I gave them good answers. You know, I hope they understand how much I love ball. Like that's, you know, that's the thing that you've said for years now. You've got to find out before you add anybody to your roster, do they actually love football? Because if they don't, it doesn't matter how much talent they have. Can't take them. No, I agree with you on all of that.

I'm just saying with the insecurity, if there's insecurities about having other guys visit, Yeah. All right. We got Cooley to do four film breakdowns. If they end up trading back and taking Michael Pennix, Jr., then he'll do the film breakdown of Penex Jr. After the fact. We'll do an intensive.

Yeah. But Jaden Daniels is Cooley's number one quarterback in the draft overall. That is your headline, and he would certainly pick Daniels at number two, and you have separation between Daniels Williams and then McCarthy May. Yeah.

All right. Absolutely. You love Mays. You love, for those Drake Mayors out there, you love his arm and you love his upside. And I don't think that, and I don't, and I'm not saying that he can't achieve

the upside. Right. All right. Not saying that by any means. All right. Good job. Appreciate it. I'll talk to you later in the week. Are you going to watch the draft, do you think?

That's pretty unlikely. Do you want me to text you updates of what's going on? Yeah. You know what I'll do? I'll make sure that I watch the first four picks. Yeah, yeah, you'll get Washington. The four names that I actually know in this draft, and Malik neighbors, I know that name.

How are you going to feel when they say the Washington commanders are on the clock? The Washington commanders select? I've gotten used to. to it. Really? You haven't told me that. Good for you. Maybe that's the point here. Maybe they just figured they'd play the weight game and everybody would just kind of say, all right, whatever. I'm used to it now. All right, thanks. Appreciate it. It's still the redskins to me, but I've gotten used to the commanders. So we're fine. All right. I'll talk to you later. Thanks. All right. See you, Kevin. Chris Cooley, everybody. Four film breakdowns, McCarthy and Jaden Daniels.

April 13th. If you haven't listened to that, go find it. And then he did Drake May and Caleb Williams today. I promise you, I had no bearing whatsoever on his rankings. He likes Jaden Daniels. He likes Jaden Daniels as the number one quarterback overall in this draft. He was sponsored as this podcast is by Windonation. Wind Donation has a great deal going on in the month of

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windownation.com. Mention my name and they will take good care of you. All right. That's it for today back tomorrow with Tommy.