The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley Film on Trey Lance

Episode Date: April 10, 2021

Cooley and Kevin today featuring Cooley's "Film Breakdown" of North Dakota State QB Trey Lance. He also added some his initial thoughts on Mac Jones and Justin Fields. The guys also discussed whether or not they think Washington is legitimately interested in moving up for any of those three quarterbacks and which of the three would fit not only Washington's situation/scheme, but the 49ers situation too.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. All right, a special Saturday podcast with Christopher Cooley on this Saturday morning. Really the primary reason for this podcast is to get Cooley's thoughts on the quarterbacks. But specifically, the quarterbacks that came into Washington football team news view this week,

with the Mike Lombardi report that Washington is going to be the team that's going to unload all of their picks to try to get a quarterback. And he said, quote, I think they love Lance. I don't think. I know Washington loves Lance. I think they're willing to go get him, closed. Quote, he went on to sort of describe that it would be a draft day thing, that if, you know, the 49ers indeed took Mack Jones at number three, and the Falcons, you know, took, let's just say, Kyle Pitts at four. and then you had Cincinnati in Miami, and all of a sudden Lance made it to seven or eight or nine,

and it was much more feasible for Washington to move up, say, 12 spots or 11 spots or somewhere in that neighborhood, that he believes they're going to do it. I'm going to mention this one thing before I'm going to let Cooley weigh in, and that is I said the other day on the podcast that, you know, in making a few calls, I got back nothing. Usually I will get back something like you're on the right track or you're not on the right track. I got back nothing. I actually believe Cooley that my opinion on them, which was they're done at quarterback,

they're not going to go for a quarterback. They have Ryan Fitzpatrick. They got Ryan Fitzpatrick because they didn't get Matt Stafford because they didn't get something else in free agency or via trade that they may have had some interest in. and they don't think they can get the guy, even if they like a guy in the draft. I thought they were done. My opinion is changing. I think if there is a guy that they're in love with,

they may be aggressive on draft night. And if they do love a guy and they are aggressive on draft night, I personally don't have a problem with that at all. Your take. Good morning. Good morning. I think this is my take. a month ago and they sent Fitzpatrick that they might not be done yes you did say that and you said

no yeah right the more i thought about this over the last month the more i think it's funny how excited people are about Fitzpatrick not that i don't think you can play just the idea that it's washington it's storied franchise and they're going to feed you a 41-year-old quarterback. That's a two-year fix. Like, here's the deal. We're going to be good, and everyone's going to eat it up. Like, that's never happened before.

You're so desperate for a winner. Well, I'm excited about Ryan Fitzpatrick, not because he's the future or the quarterback, but just simply because I think he's the best thing they've, had for five or six years. He probably is. And they're not done. I don't think they would be done, but I don't think they're going to get any of these dudes that they want.

I don't think they're going to get Tray Lam. They're definitely not getting Trevor Lawrence, and they're definitely not getting the BYU quarterback Zach Wilson. So now I think you're deciding if you like Mack Jones or if you like you like. Justin Fields. I'm so torn on this Mac Jones thing to San Francisco

at number three. Do they really believe that somebody else was going to take Mac Jones at three? You have to go all the way up to three? I just, I'm not, I'm not sure on it yet. I think Mac Jones can really play, and I understand it can

really process. And I don't think he's as a bad of an athlete as as people make it out to be. He's not the best athlete of these quarterbacks, but in terms of being on the move around, he's fine. He doesn't have the best arm, but it's fine.

He's not Chad Pennington. But that said, I just don't know, Kev, if they're going up to number three to take Mac Joe. The more I watch Trey Lans, I think, they went up to three to take Trey Lans. Really?

There have been people, it's funny to watch just all of the mock drafters. There are just so many of them now. I mean, CBSSports.com, I think, has like eight guys. Like every day they put out a new mock draft by somebody else. You know, it's Ryan Wilson or Josh Edwards or Chris Trapposo or whatever the dude's name is. And one day it's Mac Jones. The next day it's Trey Lance.

I actually saw recently a Justin Fields to the Jets and a Trey Lance to the 49-1. You know, the only reason they would go up to number three to get Mac Jones is because they, you know, they weren't going to be able to go up. They were afraid somebody else was going to go up to number three to take somebody else. And then they weren't going to be able to deal until, you know, Detroit and Carolina were already, you know, quarterbacked in and Mac Jones was gone. I mean, they had to go. Well, Coley, if you go up to number three and you trade what they traded to go up to number three, It has to be more than just Mac Jones, right? If you knew that Trevor Lawrence was going one,

and then there were four guys left, you basically had to be convinced that three of them, you know, three of them were going to fall to you, and that there were three of them that you loved. And so, you know, that... Not really. Your former defensive coordinator, Sala, went and a lot of your staff went to the Jets.

They're going to tell you they're going to take it, too. I understand. So you know who you're going to get at three. Lawrence is going one, and I think they're going to tell you essentially that Zach Wilson is going to go to the Jets. Actually, in watching Zach Wilson, I think he should go two.

I think he's probably the most sure thing at two. He had a heck of Europe. You want you. He completed like seven. 74% of his passes. Through 28 touchdowns, three picks. He had a pretty good junior year. He was just banged up a little bit.

I mean, Zach Wilson can legit play. I don't know if I think he's a better true prospect than I think Trey Lance is. Who has also not played that many games. And then you look at Mac Jones, who has also not played that many games. So, I mean, you're taking what you think, more short-thing-to-vers probably better overall prospect.

in Lance, which would be the guy I think will go three. By the way, I guess what I was meaning to say is that the 49ers going up to that spot, they had to feel like one of the other three or four, and I think you're right, they knew that Wilson would go to the Jets or had a sense of who the Jets would take, that they had to feel really strongly about any of those guys. No, yeah, yeah. They feel strongly about Mac Jones, or they feel strongly about Trey Lance. One of the two, they feel strongly.

You don't think it's Justin Fields? I don't, no. Not at three. I don't think that's where San Francisco feels strongly. You know, now you talk about what it would take for Washington on draft night if their guy. First of all, we don't know what, you just brought it up. And I'm with you on this, even though my first reaction when San Francisco made the trade was, oh my God, I can only imagine how much Kyle and Mike love Mac Jones. Everything about him.

Smart processes quickly, throws with anticipation, all of those things. But, you know, they might feel that way about Trey Lance. Here's what I said about Trey Lance. Before we get to you talking about these quarterbacks, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones in particular. the three potentials that Washington could potentially, if, you know, two of those three, after whomever San Francisco takes a three, starts to fall into an area that might be, might be getable. I just don't know how you're confident about Trey Lance. This is what I was telling you either earlier this week or Tommy the other day.

I forget which podcast it was on. But all I've been able to do is a college football fan is just watch all of these videos of him on YouTube, all of the video montages. And he looks really good. You know, he's elusive, he's quick, he's fast, he can make every throw. All of those things are all true. He played 17 games, period, at the highest level of FCS, and they were the dominant. team. He only averaged 18 pass attempts a game the year they won the National Championship when he started 16 games because more often than not, they had massive leads. Now, those leads

were generated, you know, due in part to his performances, you know, whether it was as a thrower or a runner. He rushed for over 1,100 yards. I think that 28 touchdown zero interception thing was a real, you know, an incredible selling point. I mean, that would have been the headline of, you know, his PowerPoint presentation if people hadn't heard of him. 28 touchdowns, zero interceptions, national champions. Like if he had, if he threw 25 and 6, it wouldn't have seemed as impressive.

But my point, I guess, is how can you be sure about that? You know, Carson Wentz, you loved him. You loved his tape. You loved everything about him when you watched him even in his rookie year. And clearly the jury is still way out on him. We don't know. It could end up being a big time bust, Wentz. Sure.

It's just high risk, I think, taking a guy at that level that's played so few games. I think the Wentz stuff of so much of what made him exciting to watch is what scares you to death. as a coach, because so much of the exciting stuff is what's going to get him hurt in the NFL. And that's some of the Tray Lance stuff. It's not uncommon to see Tray Lance put his shoulder down into a DB. That's awesome on an FDS level, and your guys love that. But when you start playing bigger, faster, stronger, dude, you don't want that. I think he's an athlete enough to know how to make that adjustment.

I mean, we would have thought Robert Griffin could slide. So I hope to tell you. But I'm still not off the fact that I love Wentz, and I still love some of the things that Wentz can do. And when you're talking about 17 games with the best team in FCS, and you're talking about Mac Jones in the FBS. But the competition is so much better. I realize that, but Alabama is so much better.

Yeah. I like Mac Jones. I'm not sitting here trying to tell you that I dislike Matt Jones, and I'm not going to tell you that I think one of them will definitively be a better quarterback in the NFL. I think both of them have really high potential. to be good quarterbacks in the NFL. I just think Trey Lamp fits more boxes for what the current system is

in the league for a lot of teams. Maybe not San Francisco. You know, the one difference with Trey Lans that you don't see is they run under center a lot. And when you start talking about, man, Kyle likes McJones, he's a play action.

Trey Lant is really good. Undercenter, play action quarterback. So that would fit Kyle. That would fit Kyle. More than any of these FBS guys, he's under center. They run the high formation in North Dakota. Did you know in the championship game against James Madison the year that they won it, and he started all those 16 games, that his box score was 6 of 10 for 72 yards,

no touchdowns, no interceptions, 30 carries 181 yards. I mean, I'm just... They thought they could run it against JMU. I think there's some concerns I do think there's some concerns as far as Lance as a complete quarterback you read any of the coaches

I think his coaches were upset that he didn't come back and play this year I think the OC or the head coach said it would have benefited him they think that he can read defense and he can see defense but the NFL defense are much more complex

and they think he'll adjust to it but it would have helped him to be back again this year and play. That said, though, I don't fall to any of the SDS guys to not play in the spring, getting ready for the draft. I don't either. I think that's a really good point. All right, I want to take a break when we come back. I want your overall evaluation of Lance, what he does well, what he doesn't do well,

what you're concerned about, what you're sure about, and I want to do the same thing with Fields and Mack Jones. Those would be the three guys. I think it sounds to me like you've never been off that they would continue to look and be aggressive if it made sense for the next quarterback. You said that from the beginning, but you believe that ultimately it'll be harder to do and maybe they won't be able to do it. I definitely agree with you on the latter. I'm unsure about the former, but I'm starting to lean in your direction that they're not going to shy away from an opportunity. if it presents itself for a player that they really believe in.

And that's the other thing I want to ask you, is of the three, which would you guess that Ron Rivera, Scott Turner, et cetera, would believe in? We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. Before we get to each one of these three quarterbacks, Cooley, you think, and I just want to make sure I'm clear on this, that both Lance and Mack Jones would fit the San Francisco offensive scheme. Well, yeah, and I don't want to stay here in this.

tell you that Justin Fields wouldn't fit the San Francisco scheme because I watched Kyle Shanahan adjust the scheme and Mike adjust the scheme to Robert Griffin. Anyone can fit any scheme. It's the coach's job to fit your scheme to the player. And you just have to really like the player. All right. Let's start with Trey Lance. So I wanted to start with this, which I thought was funny before we get to any of these guys.

You mentioned watching YouTube videos. And I remember starting the film breakdowns. stuff, what, seven years ago now. Yeah. My God, you can watch 100 people breakdown film on Traylance. Right. Everybody does it now. Everybody does it now.

And some of it's so bad. Yeah, I'm sure it is. So bad. But the nice aspect of it is you can actually watch game film. It's just amazing. You look up Tray Lance film breakdown. Traylance

film, and there are video after video of Rando's. breaking down Trey Lance. Are there any any of the randos that you liked? Some of it, I'm always interested.

Even if I disagree, I think it's interesting. You know, I think some of it is fascinating to see what people think about Ball, would think about reads decisions, processes. What's the biggest mistake in amateur film breakdown guy

makes? knowing what the grids of the quarterback are, why he sees certain things, getting prematurely excited about a guy talking about, man, so he sees two shell here, and he thinks that it's covered two. But then as the safety starts to rotate down, he had just post-knap to know that it's cover three,

and you're like, the second split safety was split at eight yards. He ain't playing cover two in FCS, bro. We know it's definitely not cover two. He never had width or depth. He never had real width and he never had depth. He's not going to play two from there. Morehead State doesn't do that. I don't know.

I mean, in general, you know. But they start to really give extra to certain things that he's doing or seeing. And you don't need that. there's a route that they run a post from the outside receiver a wheel from the tight end on the inside and then they have a flight sweep coming towards it and he makes a heck of a throw to the post low beating two defenders like this is the accuracy you want to see from tray land the wheel from the tight end is uncovered up the sideline for a touchdown You're like, that is good accuracy. I would like him to just throw the easy touchdown to the tight end who'd no one covered,

who should have been in his eyesight. But we're going to over-analyze the accuracy of the throw. So I just think, you know, guys get really excited about a player and they'll take anything and show it. They're elaborating what he really is in some of these situations. And in the example. And then in the example that you gave, in the coach's meeting room on Monday, they would have said, what in God's name were you looking at? Yeah, really, really good throw to that receiver running that post.

But you see, the corner should have been in a third of the field falling off into the wheel. He just ran with the post. There's nobody that covered the wheel. So next time, let's do that instead. Yeah. Okay, so here's the thing. The first thing I like about Lamb, I think technically, as far as footwork and as far as his mechanics, he's really sound. I think he makes really good movements in the pocket.

I think he's subtle with his feet. He's quick with his feet. He keeps a wide base. He can move, feel pressure. I like that about Lance. and as good as he is at running, he doesn't just go one read to run. He can go one to two and check it down to number three. So I'm not afraid of his ability to move in the pocket to stay alive

and maintain his presence in the pocket to make throws. I think that that's really, really good. I think when you watch him run, when he does break the pocket or some of the QB screens, or QB Draw stuff, he's like Josh Allen. He's incredibly athletic. He can move. He's a physical runner.

He's a big dude who I think can take a hit or two down the field. And he's fast, man. This isn't just because it's SCS. He can roll. Now, when you're watching all his highlight runs, if he's out playing in Alabama, people are going to start running him down. They're not going to be 50 years.

yard runs, and maybe a 20-yard run. So I don't want to get over cut up in his thousand yards. Do you see... I would get over cut up in his ability to make some of the throws that he does, and I think he's quick and decisive with everything that he does. That, I don't care who he's playing against, who he's playing

with. I think he's quick and decisive. I don't want to lose this thought as a runner. Two things that just strike me in watching all the videos. He runs very upright, and there's not a lot of sliding. There is, I'm going to run this guy over. I don't have a problem with that necessarily because he is a bigger, stronger dude. But he's got a very upright running style, not a shifty elusive.

He's got the shiftyness, don't get me wrong. And he's got the vision. You know, it's not Robert Griffin, straight line, doesn't see anything in his periphery. But he has like this upright running style. And I don't Yeah, no, I totally get you. I don't, so does Derek Henry if we want to evaluate runners.

Yes, so did Eric Dickerson, but he's a quarterback. But I don't really want to, I really don't want to get overcut up and what he's doing running 22 yards down the field. Okay. I think he can move and run. So Josh Allen has a high, upright running style.

When he's out of pocket down the field, he's upright. Mahomes, Mahomes, Rogers, and Russell, when they run, there's a, you know, I mean, in basketball and in football, too, play low, play low. There's like a playing low and an ability to not take a direct shot with vision and with style. And I see this guy when he runs, he takes direct shots. But anyway, he gives the shot. And he delivers it too, yes, sometimes.

Yeah, no, I'm totally with you. the only thing, if I'm really looking at this as a guy evaluating him as a running quarterback, and I don't want to do what Baltimore is doing, I want to be San Francisco, I'm going to say that as he really starts to read and learn NFL defenses, I can tell him you're the checkdown. For the first year, two years, we need you to slide, but you just go. And he's athletic enough to just go. I don't think he's a sitting duck, and he's going to be dead back there if he doesn't get it to the checkdown.

in three seconds. Go and go. Go make something happen. I'd love that about him because that buys me two years to continue to develop him as somebody that can truly read and anticipate defense. Okay. Does he struggle with that? No, I don't think he struggles with it, but I also think that there's this, they did a very

good job coaching him to where there's a ton. When you watch North Dakota State play, there's a ton of mirrored concepts. Like, same on both sides, pick a side, and, like, same on both sides, pick a side, and let's go with it. A lot of easy play action type concept. They ran the ball so well that they got a lot of safety down in the box, safety's low type of deals where he could really just go ahead and trust it. It's one-on-one with a corner.

Go make the throw. So I'm not going to sit here and say there was a vast complexity to what they did on offense. Then you're saying, do I evaluate this scheme and knock him down because of the scheme or do I evaluate what he's doing as a player? And I think there's some of both. But what he does as a player fits it perfectly. I do think that he's quick. I do think even sometimes the ball's out quicker than he'd want.

Like we talked about the great throw on the post when a wheel's open, at time just hitch to the post and throw the wheel. I think that he anticipates pretty well. I think that he gets the ball out pretty well. I think he throws a very good deep ball. I think he's inaccurate at 12 to 15, 12 to even within the 5 yards

he has this tendency to drive the ball down. Like when you start watching him throw, he's got a real over-the-top motion and sometimes the ball will come down and almost handcuff receivers at the knees. But I like that a lot of his misses are down, you know, as opposed to

like the last couple years with the Wayne Haskin where all his misses are high. Exactly. Because he's opening like technically his mechanics were so bad he's open his hips so high that all it could do is sail it like Lance is driving it so hard that the ball is almost diving sometimes

so his misses are more down so I like that in Lance look I see a guy who's definitely you're watching film his redshirt freshman year I mean you're not seeing a long progression

and the long development but early as a as a redcher freshman and he's doing everything you want him to do. He's making three, five, seven-step drops from under center. His timing's good, his anticipation, really good. He gets away with a couple things, and maybe that's in part of the FCS thing, but it's not like he's getting away with everything.

And he can run when he has to run. And he's a willing runner. I love one. I think he's a really high-level prospect. Right system, right fit, coach who's definitely going to believe in him. It'll be a good player. All right. So a couple of questions about him. Number one, I've seen, you know, a lot of video where he is definitely under center some, but he's in shotgun more. He's still, like most

college quarterbacks, you know, there are many, and I'm watching a few plays right now that are true play action and even bootleg from snap under centers that look like it would fit the Shanahan system. But he would. But he would. under shotgun more. It would appear based on the highlights that he was under shotgun more. It's almost like Washington's offense. Okay. Where they're under shotgun, they're under the gun, they're in the gun a lot more, but they still want to go under center. Yeah.

He's just under center more than any other college quarterback right now. And he looks comfortable under center with all of the play action stuff, too. You know, like I'm watching a play. Really good. Yeah, I'm looking at delivering play action fakes and stuff, yeah. I'm looking at, you know, the, the, what looks like sort of a fake handoff on a zone run look and him coming, booting back and throwing deep to the tight end for a touchdown, looks totally comfortable.

By the way, you know, in many ways, I meant to mention this to you earlier on the running thing. He's a much better runner than this player. But, you know how, like, Teddy Bridgewater, when you watch him, plays very upright. throws very upright. There's a style in the way he throws the ball that looks very Teddy Bridgewater to me. Not the same wind up or release necessarily, but the whole, like the whole positioning, the whole posture. Like he just is very upright. Anyway, that's just an observation. You said you would coach him, and I've of course heard you say this many times about Robert's rookie year here, that basically Mike and Kyle got to the point where they said,

it's one read and then you are the checkdown, period. That's how we're going to do it. And all of a sudden, you know, it was a half of a field. And if it wasn't there, you know, then he would take off. And it worked with him. But you don't think that this guy's a one-reed guy checkdown, right? No, and it wasn't always that Robert was a one-read checkdown. I guess what when I say like you become the checkdown is as soon as you feel

uncomfortable or you don't see it go. Right. Like if you can make it through to two, three and you're cool in the pocket right there, I think you're fine, but I think it was more, like as I'm remembering some of these meetings that I was in, it was more like, as soon as you don't like it, you're the checkdown. All right. But they did give Robert a lot of one read throws, a lot of play action stuff where at most there's your one read.

and then if you want to throw something over the top, there's not more than two looks on it. Trey Lance, you really like and you think he deserves to be a top 10 quarterback in this draft? Yeah, I do. Justin Fields. Justin Fields is one of those guys that you're like, gosh, the ability is unbelievable. And he can make some huge throws. I mean, you look at the semifinal game and you're just wowed.

And that's the crazy thing is like these Ohio State quarterbacks. Again, their offense is incredibly simplistic. And they lose so many guys every year. And almost every one of these quarterbacks, whether it be under the new staff or Urban Meyer, it was like maybe a little bit of a slow start, but developed through the year to really excel in this type offense. that is fairly simplistic.

I think the most uncertainty would be with fields of any of these guys as to who he is and who he's going to be. There's some incredibly accurate throws, there's some inaccurate throws, there's some throws where you look at it go, no. Don't know. But then he's got some runs where he's special. I think Fields is still a first round quarterback. I just think Fields more than any of them probably needs another year,

just like I said about Duane. I think Fields is so much more accurate than Duane was at Ohio State. I would agree with that in terms of being more accurate. Duane was, is an inaccurate thrower of the football. I mean, the other thing about Fields is he can make every throw and he's got a very strong arm. I don't know what, you know, his pro day, and I think he's having another pro day, or he just had another pro day. I watched his whole pro day.

What did you think of his pro day? Dwone away. What blew you away? There's a throw he makes, and I like all these pro days now because they get through all the, you know, they'll throw the swamp, they'll throw the hook, they'll throw the dig, they'll throw all these. and then now all these guys are like okay now fake like you're getting out of the pocket throwing the off-strip ball 55 yards down the field and he threw one ball that maybe was 60 yards down the field hit the receiver in strad if he's running to his left and you're like okay okay I mean that's pretty unbelievable I thought he had a very good pro day I think

you only missed one throw in a pro day you know the other I mean it's just like here's a So I haven't watched as much field as I watched Dwayne Haskins. I watch more Trey Lance than Field by far, large and far because you told me we're going to talk about Trey Lance today. I'm sorry about that. Well, we'll do another deep dive, if you will, into Justin Fields. We do a deep dive into field before the draft. Here's a thing that scares me about field. Yeah.

Why does every team seem to think and every message seem to think that, he struggles to see the field? I don't know, because of a couple of the picks that he threw in big games, like the Clemson semifinal. It's more than that. The year before. It's more than that. It's more than that.

It's the deal of why Mack Jones goes from someone that was going to be number 20 to number three, and field goes from top five to number 10. all the hype stuff is out of it to the coaches to where now these guys are watching film and talking to whoever they're talking to. The Fields thing to me comes down to two games that he played last year. Three games in total. The Clemson game, the semifinal from the year before, where he drove him down the field and then threw the pick into the end zone

on really what was a miscommunication with the receiver. but he had a really bad game against Indiana this year. And I forget how many picks he threw, but he threw a ton of picks in that game, and they were life and death with Indiana and that left-handed freshman quarterback Pennix Jr. or whatever who ended up tearing his ACL. He did not look good.

He was sacked. He was off. It was bad. The Northwestern Big Ten title game, he was not good in at all. He looked very uncomfortable. Northwestern's defense was good all year long. Really good.

And Trey Sermon, they're running back, that was the game in which they basically just said, you know, they were down in that game and they gave the ball to Trey Sermon, and he ended up carrying for, I think it was 340 yards in the game. He went well over 300. Like he was on his way to like 400 yards rushing in the game. And that won the game for Ohio State, you know, and clinched the playoff berth. But man with basically injured ribs against. Clemson, six touchdowns. He was just phenomenal. He barely missed a throw. I forget what the

yardage was. I just know it was six touchdowns in the game. And then you go back to some of the games he had early in the year. Remember, he started off the year. I think there were like two games where he had one game he was like 19 of 20. The next game, I'm pulling up his log here because I want to make sure I get this right. Might as well get it accurate here. Okay. So in the opener against Nebraska this year, 20 of 21, okay, two touchdowns. They blew Nebraska out.

Still, he was 20 of 21. Then against Penn State, 28 to 34, four touchdowns, no picks. Then against Rutgers, 24 of 28, five touchdowns, no picks. The first three games, Fields was like, here we're. we go, he might be the Heisman Trophy winner. Then he had the real shitty game against Indiana that I was talking about. 18 of 30, 300 yards,

but three interceptions in the game and five sacks. So I remember the interceptions. I don't think I remember it as many of the sacks. Then he had the Northwestern game, the Big Ten title game, 12 of 27, 114 yards,

two interceptions. He looked totally uncomfortable in that game. And I remember after that game talking to one of my really good friends who's a big Ohio State guy and I go, dude, I'm not into your guy now. I mean, come on. That's Northwestern. And Northwestern's defense, trust me, was excellent this year. That was a good football team, you know, a much better football team than people even realized. They were excellent defensively. But then the game against Clemson, and one of the things I love about Fields is that he has got a big strong arm, he can make throws

more accurately than Dwayne, and he's clearly more mobile than Dwayne and a playmaker. But the other thing that since the season ended that convinced me is all I've heard with the exception of the Orlovski conversation is how respected he is, what a great work ethic he has, and what a great leader he was at Ohio State. And I don't know, at the end of the season, and by the way, I thought he played well against Alabama. It's just that, you know, they couldn't stop Alabama. You know, they gave up whatever it was. Here it is, 52 points. In that game, remember, it was 2114, 2117. They were going back and forth. Fields was good, and he was still not totally healthy. And they lost the back early in that game, Trey Sermon, who had the big game against

Northwestern. So, I don't know, I like, I kind of like Fields. But I'll let you do a much deeper dive. I think, no, I like Fields, and we can do this on Monday, and I'll sit over the weekend and watch five or six games. I just think Fields is probably the only guy that they're going to get after six or seven. Okay. So if you're really interested in anyone, I just don't quite envision how they're getting up past six or seven or eight. I do.

And if you really believe that one of these guys is your dude and let's say Trey Lance was the guy that he loved fell to four or five or six whatever, then I can understand trading away picks for it. And they were willing to do that. They were willing to do that with Stafford.

I think that they've been willing to entertain trading also a player for one of these guys? The 49ers to move from 12 to 3 gave up, you know, two firsts, two future first and a future third to swap. So they moved up nine spots for the 2022 first, 2021 first, 2023 first, and a 2023 third to move up nine spots. Washington, if Lance fell, and it sounds to me like you don't think he's going to fall.

to an area that would make sense. Because to move from 19 to 4 is going to cost you even more with Atlanta. To move to... Well, the first 12 spots aren't going to cost you as much as San Francisco.

You know, to move from 19 to 7 won't cost you as much as from 12 to 3. I understand that, but what I was saying is to go from 19 to 4 if San Francisco took Mack Jones and you thought it was your only chance to get Trey Lance, it's going to cost you every bit of that

of what the 49ers spent. It's going to cost you two first, a swap, whatever, second, or whatever, and then try a player. That's right. Well, I don't even know about the player. It's going to cost you your 2022 first and your 2023 first and probably your third this year, one of your two thirds this year, minimum. So I'd ask you right now. Yeah, more like probably your second this year.

Is that worth it to go get Lancet number four with Atlanta who said that they are willing to trade that pick? he's good well if you were totally in love with him okay so let's do let me just say this to you this way

I think Tray Lance is a really good player I think he's got a lot of talent I think if I was willing to vouch on that I would want to watch every game 11 times I would want to meet with him I would want to talk to him I would want to spend time with him

I mean if they're doing that and saying we saw it Chris saw in two hours of watching him and then watched another hundred hours and confirmed it, yeah, I think so I would do it. And you're also saying to yourself, we think the next year's first is going to be

around the 20th, and then if he's, the guy we think he is, the next year's first is going to be like the 26th or 27th the draft. We think that we're giving you late first. The quarterback position is it's got to be there for you, Kev. And then the nice thing is, is if you really, if you really thought Fitzpatrick would be the guy this year, and you thought, man, Lance has been out for a year,

he's only played 17 games, we're fine with one year with Fitzpatrick. We want him to learn for a year. We don't want to put him into a situation that's not perfect for him. I actually don't care if they trade all those picks and play Fitzpatrick for a year. Yeah, I mean, you know These teams that win and they win because the quarterback's good for 10 years. Not for one.

And it's really just that position. That position is good for 10 years. That's how you keep winning. Yeah, we do it. We've talked about this a lot. Bottom line is over the last 10, 11 years, if you get drafted in the top half of the first round, unless you're Mahomes or I think it was locker or somebody else,

you play in the first five games of your rookie year. You're in the starting lineup. And I think Tungabaloa maybe came in in week seven last year. That was sort of a pre-last year thing. I mean, that's just the nature of the game now. But Mahomes sat for a year behind Alex Smith turned out pretty well. But I still contend that if Mahomes had played in his rookie year, they probably would have won the Super Bowl or gotten to the Super Bowl.

I'm completely with you. And keep in mind, they didn't have to give away to a few, your first and this year's third to get to my home. No, they had to give up. God, I looked this up the other day. I'm doing it right now when they traded from 27 to 11, right? It was 27 to 11. What did they give up? Andy Reid give up to get that.

They got, or 27 to 10. They gave up a third rounder, a first rounder the following year. That's it. That's all they gave up. To move up 17 spots, they gave up an additional first and a third. I thought it was more than that. Anyway, yeah, yeah.

That's, but... No, and... By the way, one other... Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, it's funny because you're sitting here looking at these guys. there is a chance that two of them can fall. I don't think it'll happen just because of what I see in the talent in the percent of it. And the other thing is you could make these inquiries and make the inquiries in barely leaking that you were going up to get a quarterback

just to see what it's going to take you to go up to get to 7, 8, or 9 if someone like Pitts fell or if somebody, like Michael Parsons, fell. and you don't want to tell anybody where you're going with that pick or you might want to get one of your receivers at 10 I doubt that's what they would do. I doubt that too. But I mean, the interesting going up is definitely there. Although the pits thing, you know,

by the, I wanted to remind you and everybody else. This is my opinion anyway, and I'm not sure if you agree or disagree with it. But number 10 is Dallas, number 11 is the Giants, and number 12 is Philadelphia. So the bottom line is you're not trading with any one of those three teams to move up to take anybody that falls to those spots. If you're going to trade up to get Lance or Fields or Jones, if they fall, it's going to be with Detroit at 7, or it's going to be with Atlanta at 4, which is pricey. it's going to be with Detroit at 7 or it's going to be with Carolina at 8 because Carolina got

Darnold and they're picking up his option here shortly and they've decided that's the direction they're going to go at QB. You've got to get ahead of Denver at 9 because Denver is definitely in the QB market. Now if Pitts fell to 9, you know, I don't think he will either. I just think that he's, I think many people have made the case that he could be the number one overall player on people's draft boards. And so if he... Yeah, he's not going to fall to nine. I wouldn't be surprised to see

if someone didn't want to make the big trade-up, that Atlanta just takes him at four. Yeah, that's what I think. God, put him with Jones and... That's a really hard situation for Atlanta to be in, because San Francisco is going to take either Lance or Jones at three. Do you want the other one at four? to sit

to do what sit behind Matt Ryan for three years Matt Ryan's got three years left minimum he's 35 years old well everyone thought that

Atlanta was going to take a quarterback I know but I never understood that I don't understand it either keff if you put Matt Ryan on the market it's probably just short of what Stafford got it's not it may not be short of what Stafford got

it could be equal to it the only be just short of it. The only difference that's so interesting because Matt Ryan's obviously had much more success postseason wise, record wise than Stafford. I think I agree with you. I've always been a Stafford guy. But I also like Matt Ryan a lot. And if you give him

Kyle Pitts to go with Julio Jones and Calvin Ridley, that offense was... And Hayden Hurst. And Hayden Hurst. And they've got Mike Davis in the backfield. They could use probably another running back. But that's going to be a lethal offense. It's already been lethal at times over the last couple of years. They just haven't had a defense. And you made this point to me that, you know, are you really going to saddle Arthur Smith in his first year as a head coach with a quarterback, you know, controversy by taking a quarterback at number four when you've got,

you know, a borderline future Hall of Famer at 35 years old on your roster who has really shown no signs, has he? Matt Ryan of getting worse? No, no. They've just been, it's almost like the Kurt Cousins and DC argument. They've just been so bad on defense, they didn't give a chance. Yeah. I mean, they have. They've been horrendous on defense over the last couple years. Did you have

anything on Mac Jones, or do you want to hold off on that one as well? Well, here's the thing with Mac Jones. I've watched a lot of them. A lot of the Mac Jones. I want to do that. And we can do more, but it's not the whole deal. All right. I want you to do it right after this word from one of our sponsors.

Before we finish up with your thoughts on Matt Jones. I did want to mention something because I was just looking this up during the break. So Matt Ryan's 2021 cap number had become the largest in the NFL because of the Rafflesberger restructure. 21 million of Ryan's 2021 base salary became fully guaranteed. And it's it's a big number. But listen to his 2022 and 2020-23 cap numbers. His 22 cap number is 48.6 million, and then the 2023 number is 43.6 million. Ryan has the NFL's largest cap number for 2022. You're moving on.

Yeah. Now, one of the reasons that it was going to be painful for him to be a tradable asset in this offseason would have been the massive cap hit they would have taken with a trade because of the accelerated bonus numbers, which when looking at that earlier, I remember early on in the Stafford conversations before he got dealt, thinking, well, what if Atlanta wants to take a quarterback and they're willing to deal Ryan?

Stafford was a much, much less painful move for Detroit. Atlanta, it would be very painful from a cap standpoint. to deal him. Not that we haven't seen it because we obviously saw it with Wents. Philadelphia said to hell with it, we'll take the pain this year, but we're dealing him, which they did. But Atlanta's not dealing Ryan. That would have happened already. I think the fourth pick is like this dilemma for Atlanta. Are they going to take the quarterback and move on from Ryan before next year? Maybe that's true. But they've got a quarterback that they could restructure moving forward that still got a lot of good football left.

And by the way, as a Washington fan, I would love Matt Ryan with a good team around him, a good defense and a good team around him. Not in the same way that I would have loved Stafford, but pretty close. But anyway, um, no, I mean, I think that that's also a conversation you have with Matt, right? Right. What are you willing to do? Or do you want to be here? Do you want to be here? for the next five years, because we love you, but we're not going to take a cap of $40 million. We can't do that. We can't give you anything if we do that.

We can't sign Calvin Ridley next year like we need to. We're going to have to pay number four the tight-in that you want. Let's fix it. Or if you really can't, we'd like to know now, because I'm sure that there's enough between the two parties, even though it's a new GM and new head coach, that there's enough in Atlanta that Matt Ryan probably wants to stay in Atlanta. So, yeah, I don't know.

I'm sitting here thinking about this as we're talking to back to Washington. All it seems Ron's tried to do is recreate Carolina success. You look at the 15-1 season to the Super Bowl. They had a mobile quarterback, and they've continued to want mobile quarterbacks. Allen, Heineke's a mobile quarterback. They want a guy that can move around a little bit. Ryan Fitzpatrick can move around. He can.

And he can. But that's why they like Lance, more than anybody. That's why they might like fields, too. It is. It is. It is why they might like fields as well. And they might get fields. I don't think that's the only guy.

We were going to talk about Mac Jones. Yeah. Have you ever... Is it not... It's amazing to... me, the guy completed 77% of his passes for 4,500 yards, and everyone

scoffing at it like, eh, well, it's Alabama. He's the 20th overall. Right. He completed 80% of his passes in the National Championship for 400 whatever yard, five touchdowns, no pit. Any other quarterback

in any other year would have been the number one overall. Well, he doesn't have that strong of an arm. Would be that he must be the best anticipating quarterback of all time because he's completing 80% of his passes without a strong arm. You're not just lobbing one in there half a second late and you're getting completion because your receivers are good. I don't know.

It's wild. I don't know what. I don't know what he ran at his 40s, but he's a five-five guy. You watch the combine in the bubble. that one person came in for our radio station in three years and ran under a five flat because it's not like five flats fast in the NFL but it's sure not slow

for a quarterback for a quarterback too five flats not slow I look he um you know against the better defensive teams they face this year in the SEC you know whether it was Kentucky or Auburn

or Georgia as an example he just shredded those teams. Shredded them. He threw it for over 400 against Georgia. Kentucky's the game that he, they won 63 to 3, so it's not like he had to do a lot. But it was like, I think,

hold on for a second, I want to do this again. You're 2 for 230. 230? 16 to 24 for 230 yards. Yeah, so it wasn't one of his better games. It's funny, Kentucky last year was one of these teams that actually was in the SEC see a good defensive team.

But, you know, not against Bama. No, not against Bama. I mean, the one thing you definitely, I know about Max Jones, is if you want to talk about straight decision-making, he's probably won over anybody. But also, it was easier to make decisions. Like I said for a few years with Alex Smith, once he had three kill, and then Kelsey,

and you know that number one wins right now or doesn't, it's a lot easier to get to number two. You don't have to think does one finish and get a win. You are the wins or lose right now. So there is that aspect of it, but I think everybody that's talked to Mac Jones and looked at him. And then I think in talking to, not me, but people that have talked to that Alabama staff,

it was like we could put more on Mac Jones than ever, ever, we've ever had anyone take. We'd give them all of it, and he handled it. And that's what a lot of NFL coaches like. Right. Like, I mean, look, there are two starters in the NFL, Tuatunga Vailoh and Jalen Hertz, in the upcoming season that just played for Bama. So they, like NFL coaches have had a lot of conversations with Alabama people, even the offensive coordinators that they've changed,

whether it was Sarkesian or Loxley or whomever, they're talking to Sabin too. And do you think that they say something like, yeah, Mac Jones' light years ahead of the other two in really understanding everything? Yeah. And do you think that anyone would trust Nick Saban? Because does he have to lie about first round picks?

I don't know. No. He only cares about his reputation at that point. So if Nick Sabin says, decision maker, best I've ever seen, you say, believe it. I believe it wholeheartedly. Nick Saban's word would go a long way with this.

And the other thing is you don't complete 77% of your passes without being an accurate pass. There's a lot to Mac Jones. Maybe he is three. I think Samford. That's funny. I think both Jones and Lance are really good players. I do.

I think there are four guys that are essentially 1A type players. I mean, maybe you say Lance isn't 1A, but he's got more pure potential. And then you think, I think Fields would be the 1B. So, Mac, put him in order right now. And you haven't done, you're going to do more on Fields. you know Lawrence's game put him in the order that you would put them on your draft board the top five guys

Lawrence won right Lawrence won and Lawrence does a lot of things really really well he does he's beat are great he's exceptional in terms of throwing the ball he's got a ton of arms Lawrence I think you put it one um is Wilson what he did as far as

I'm sure of it. And his ability to move and do things is probably two. I have a hard time right now with Jones and Lance without watching more, but I don't have a problem with either of them being three. We'll have plenty of time to do a lot more on this stuff. But, you know, today what we did. It's fun. They're all good, though.

They are good. They're good. Like last year, I didn't think there was a first round quarterback. Or wait, wait. No, no, no, no. Other than Murray. Murray was a first round. No, no, that's two years ago.

Burrow last year. You loved Burrow. Yeah, no, two years ago. I didn't, other than Murray, I didn't think any of them. Oh, two years ago. No, that's true. You didn't. Murray was the only one. I didn't think Daniel Jones is a first rounder. Not a necessity.

I mean, in the quarterback position, they become one, but I think that they were second round picks. I think you got these first four for sure in field are all first rounders. No doubt. You know, one other quick question. would you bail on Drew Locke, Drew Locke like Denver appears to be ready to do? No, I like Drew Locke a lot.

I think that there's definitely some concern for Locke in terms of being a consistent player. I'd sure want to have him in an offense that I'd want to see him one more year with those receivers that they drafted last year in another year of an offense that he understands. I think Lockman can make plays. I think he's a playmaker. I think he's got guts.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that happens so quickly. I mean, it almost, it's not that it started with the Arizona Cardinals bailing on Rosen quickly and going Murray. Obviously, that appears to be the right decision. But if Denver bails on Locke, now Locke wasn't, you know, a first round pick or a top 10 pick, he was a second round pick, obviously. But if they bail on him that quickly, I just think that's interesting. Remember, they almost, there was talk last year that they, liked Mark Rippin's nephew more than Locke. Brett.

Yeah. So they have enough weapons, and at number nine, if they don't take a quarterback, God, can you imagine, somebody mentioned this on the phone lines the other day, adding Micah Parsons to Chubb and Von Miller on that defense, which is already. Well, one thing Elway's been able to do is the former quarterback to build a good defense. He stepped out, didn't he? Yeah, he's done. Vic Fangio is the brains behind the defensive operation there.

But building the game forever was always that way. All right. So you went deep into fields, which was great, not fields. You went deep into Trey Lance today for your first true draft quarterback breakdown. We've got a lot more to go, and we'll have many more days between now and the 20, or whatever day that is. We're less than three weeks away. In fact, we're three weeks away from day three of the NFL draft.

So we'll have a lot more of the Cooley film breakdowns and discussions of the prospects. Net net, I'm not convinced Washington wants to trade up, but I'm not totally unconvinced either. And if they did love somebody and they really thought that they could go get them, you know, in the draft, I'd be all for it. even though I'm excited about Ryan Fitzpatrick. I am. I'm excited about Fitzpatrick. But if they love Trey Lance or if they love Justin Fields and they can trade up to eight with Carolina and they get their quarterback and they get the guy

that they are absolutely convinced is going to be the guy for the next 10-plus years, I'm going to be all for it. You've got to have that guy. I'm not suggesting they have that guy with Ryan Fitzpatrick. All I've said is I'm excited to see him play for us and I think it'll be the most dynamic we've been offensively with him at quarterback in several years. But he's not the long-term answer, obviously. By the way, he had a great outfit on at the Masters yesterday.

Did you see any of those pictures? I didn't see Fitzpatrick, but I'm going to look it up right when we got off. Yeah, he was just chilling at the Masters yesterday. All right, man, thanks for doing this. I'll talk to him Monday. See, Kevin. Have a great rest of the weekend. Cooley and I will be back on Monday.