The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley on Gronk, Trent, Draft

Episode Date: April 22, 2020

Chris Cooley and Kevin talked Gronk trade, Trent Williams news, and a ton about the Redskins/NFL Draft. Cooley shared some personal stories from his draft day back in 2004 as well. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. It's a Cooley and Kevin Wednesday, the day before the draft. Hello to everybody. Coolie's calling in from home. We're going to get to all of the gronk stuff. We're going to get to the reports that have come out actually since the radio show ended earlier this morning, specifically about Trent Williams. We'll ask Cooley some of his draft day memories, which we've heard. heard before, but we can follow up on that. I've got a couple of hypotheticals for Cooley on Dwayne Haskins and this Redskins draft, and then we can get to the draft itself. I want to start real quickly before we get to some of the news this morning on the skins. What did you make of Gromk coming back, going to Tampa, only deciding that he would play

for Brady after a year off? The Patriots got a fourth rounder back. That was it. They gave up gronk and a seventh rounder. You, you know, you've always been a fan of his. What did you make of the whole trade? I bet he didn't want to play in New England. That or he wanted just to play with Brady? Well, I think you look at it and he definitely wants to play with Brady, but if it was just Brady, he would have went back and played with Brady last year.

I mean, he had a chance to win another Super Bowl. Or maybe he didn't care about winning another Super Bowl in England, which is crazy. right, but success they've had maybe they feel like he was missing anything. I think mostly in talking to guys that were in New England for a long time, especially a guy like

drunk who likes to have some fun, is that it's not fun. And I understand that it's a job, but it's a fun job. It's just not a fun job in New England. So I think, to me, that's my first take is, man, he did not want to play for Belichick anymore.

he was done with it over it. Secondly, I know what it's like to take a year off and then kind of get the desire to play again. And I'm halfway surprised that at some point he didn't try to come back. I know there's a veteran deadline or maybe wasn't ready by that point. But there's that feeling as well of you just see how much guys who are completely oversaturated with football done with it spend a year away from it and want to come play again.

It's a fun game. What's so bad about playing in New England? I think, Kev, that it's an environment where you don't make a mistake. You get yelled at if you do anything wrong. There's complete discipline. There's no tweeting. There's no social media. There's no media.

There's no say the wrong thing. I've heard from guys that when something happens or you do something that you're at fault for, even a small thing like you had a missed assignment in practice, that Bill won't look at you in the hall. You'll walk down the hallway and say, I was going to go to coach, and he will not, he'll snub you like Costanza. So I think that that is exciting for guys that have been in organizations for a long time that aren't winning organizations.

But guys that have played for the Patriots for a long time, I think that wears on them. You think that war on Brady, too, and that's one of the reasons he was ready to move on? I don't think that Brady was exempt from it. He had to be to some extent. What are you going to say to Tom Brady? But, yeah, I do think that some of it probably did. Some of the outside stuff, the media stuff, the lifestyle stuff. Yeah, I think that probably, I think some of that probably wore on Tom.

Did you get to know Gronkwell? Do you know Gronkwell? I don't know him well. We've met and talked a few times, but I do not know him well. I like him. Did you ever get a chance to know Brady? No, never. I've never met Tom. You know, a couple of things about the trade. Bill Barnwell wrote extensively about why the Patriots only got a fourth round pick for him, which when I first saw it yesterday, I happened to have been on with Zabe. talking about ice cream truck and ice cream truck products, good humor, you know, Mr. Softie, circus man, baker boy. What did you have out in Utah?

Was it just good humor? We didn't have good humor. You didn't have, you did not have good humor? You were talking to ice cream truck? Yeah, did you have an ice cream truck when you were a kid? Uh-uh. You really didn't? No ice cream truck came around the neighborhood.

The Swan, man. What was it called? Swan. Swans? Was Swan a dairy? Yeah, I saw Swan's truck here the other day. Yeah, Swan is a national thing. I think it's a dairy, though, right? I think it is. I don't know. No, Swans is a food truck. A food truck, right, right. So that's what you had.

I mean, you're familiar with an ice cream truck, right, that comes around in the summer. Very familiar. I just, yeah, I play the music. We just didn't have one. Okay. Anyway, I was talking about ice cream product, good humor product, with Zabe on his show yesterday and Scott, when the news flash came across ESPN.com, you know, making, announcing the trade. So I immediately said, a fourth rounder, that doesn't seem right. It's Rob Grinkowski. He's only 30 years old. He was only out one year. What am I missing here? Well, I was missing a couple of things. Number one, according to Barnwell, Gronk was only going to come back if he could play for Tampa.

So basically, he was never going to play for the Patriots. He would have stayed retired. Wouldn't have played for anybody else. He would have stayed retired. And beyond that, he's due to make $10 million this year, and the Patriots just weren't anywhere near being able to afford Gronk's contract on their cap. They're just $2 million over the cap right now. So they would have had to make some moves to keep Gronk. So ultimately, I guess Belichick looked at it and said he can stay retired and we get nothing or he can play for an NFC team and we get a free fourth rounder. I guess he could look at it that way.

I guess you could have also said to Gronk and his agent, we know you want to play with Tom. We know that's the only place you want to play. but we're just not taking any less than a second for you. I mean, Hayden Hurst, the Ravens got a second for Hayden Hurst, you know, recently. So, I mean, he could have played hardball and said, you really want to play with Tom and you want to return, that's fine. You're going to have to get the bucks to give up more. But that's essentially the reasoning that went into the why they only got a fourth rounder.

And actually, they had to, you know, give a seventh rounder with Grunkowski just to get the fourth rounder back. The other part of this is yesterday, Cooley, before the trade, the Buccaneers were 20 to 1 to win the Super Bowl on Sportsbook.com, one of the sites I use. After the trade, they're 12 to 1 to win the Super Bowl, and they're only on Sportsbook.com, three teams that have better odds to win the Super Bowl this year. The 49ers, or in order, the Chiefs, the Ravens, and the 49ers. The Bucks are the fourth favorite to win the whole thing. I actually think they have a legitimate chance to go to the Super Bowl with the team they have. Yeah, Kevin, I think Tampa's stacked.

You look at Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, both phenomenal wide receivers. You had Grunkowski. I like Ronald Jones. I love Ronald Jones a couple years ago as a running back coming out. I think he's going to continue to grow. Good offensive lines. O.J. Howard, by the way, the other thing I thought about, because I'm going to say O.J. Howard. The other thing that I thought about is that O.J. Howard or Cameron Brayt are two very good tight ends, both of which the Redskins could try to acquire.

Well, let me interrupt one quick second because that was one of the reports that came out after the radio show was over this morning. Jen Elaine from ESPN citing a source said that the Buccaneers nearly traded OJ. Howard two months ago to the Redskins in exchange for offensive tackle. Williams, but talks fell through. It's the first thing I thought of, too, is, you know, about O.J. Howard and what it would cost to get him. And do they want Howard or do they want Brate? Because they're probably not going to keep both of them. Here's the problem now for the bucks. After trading for Krenkowski, they don't have any cap space left. They have, well, I'll tell you exactly what they have. They have just over $3 million in cap space now. So Howard's due to make $2 million. So it doesn't work.

even without an extension for Trent, at $12 million next year, even if you were to give an extension and get the number down, it's going to be a tight squeeze. They're going to probably have to cut somebody or restructure somebody to make that deal happen. Yeah, what do they say? You've got to keep somewhere around $5 million in cap space through the year to sign guys when you have injuries.

Exactly, three to five somewhere in that range. Right. And they're at 3.6 right now in available cap space. By the way, you love O.J. Howard. You did coming out of the drift. Cameron Brates all dead money. They could get rid of Brate at 425. Dead money.

Well, that's... So that'd be the move. They'd probably try to make. Still, you got Trent at 12.5. Yeah, you'd have to find somewhere. But you're going to redo a deal with Trent. Right, but can you get that first year down to like $5 million? I guess you could.

Yeah, I'm sure you can. Okay, so just real quickly because you loved O.J. Howard coming out of that draft. Yeah, I thought he was pretty special. I didn't think he was a top 10 pick, but athleticism is off the charts. I think he was a blocker. All of the Alabama guys are usually pretty technical in terms of blocking. He could be a little bit better as a blocker. He's a phenomenal receiver can improve drastically as a route running tight end

because he has the athletics and the quick twitch to do it. It's just going to take someone to work with him. It's not that I'm saying he's not good. He's just not great. But he has all the potential to be a really special player. Back to the Bucks for a moment. And then we'll circle back to Trent Williams because there was another story about him after the show ended this morning. I think the Patriots, I think the Buccaneers, excuse me, are a legitimate, before the Gronk trade.

I thought they were a legitimate NFC Super Bowl contender. Are they better than the Ravens or the Chiefs? Probably not. Could they get to the NFC championship game against the 49ers or Green Bay or Seattle? Yeah, absolutely with that talent. And now it may, you know, if Grunk comes back and he's the Gronk of old after a year off and being refreshed and Brady doesn't regress significantly, my God, Godwin, Evans, Grunk, Brate and or Howard, Ronald Jones, who you like.

I didn't love as much. This is a defense. Two, Vida Valle, Shack Barrett, Pierre Paul. Levanti, David, they didn't play well, though, last year. They didn't play well defensively. But they should be well coached. Which is a complicated defense. What, the Bulls defense?

Yeah, the Bulls is a complicated defense because if they play out of your system, in the system defense. I guess by that, I mean, you're given certain liberties, especially certain players, to not necessarily play the system that's called, but to communicate and make play. It takes a little bit of time for that to grow. They got better at the end of the year, but they also turn the ball over 300 times. Yeah, exactly. Yes. They are legit good. And the coaching staff's first rate with Ariens and Bowls. No, it'll be, wouldn't it just be amazing though if Tom Brady goes there and goes to Super Bowl? It'd be amazing.

I think a lot of spend on Brady. I think they are legitimately a deep into January team. They could be sitting there in the Super Bowl next year. And, you know, you mentioned all the interceptions. You know, I've mentioned this before about the Buccaneer season. last year. The Buccaneers went seven and nine, but they were so close, so close to something so much better. Their losses were all just excruciating. They lost to Daniel Jones in his first game by a point. They lost by a touchdown in New Orleans. They lost by four in Tennessee. They had the Seahawks

dead to right in Seattle and lost in overtime. At the end of the year, they were, I mean, they had Houston. They were better than Houston that day. But James, if James had thrown, I forget what his final numbers were. Was it 30 interceptions in total? I think it was 32 and 30 maybe. I know he was 30 for 30. It's the first time I'd never happen. If he had thrown 25 interceptions, which would have been horrible instead of record setting almost, they probably would have won two to three more games than been in the playoffs. That's not an exaggeration.

They were so close last year. It's a really, really good football team potentially next year. Yeah, I'll be very excited to watch that team, which I'll be watching closely because it'll be fun. Yeah, I agree. So anyway, I mentioned the odds. So let me – oh, one more thing on Grunk. Being a tight end like you were in a Pro Bowl tight end, do you have – I don't know if we've ever talked. about this. Do you have any sort of historical sense of the position, you know, who's been

great, who's in the Hall of Fame, who isn't? Yes. You do. So where does Gronk rank for you on the all-time list of tight ends? You're in the top ten, for sure, with the ability to have been one of the best of all-time. I don't know if he played enough to be considered in the best of all-time. Really? You know? Well, I think you look at, to me, but you look at his touchdowns, and you look at what he's been able to do when he's on the field.

He's been probably one of the most unstoppable tight-ins. You said something to me last podcast. Can you imagine what it would be like to play with Tom Brady? Now, let's not take anything away from Rob Gruncast because he's an incredibly special player. But can you imagine what it would be like to play with Tom Brady, ball on you, on time, whenever you want, wherever you want it.

I mean, geez, it'd be awesome. Yeah, I think you've got to put them in the top five, actually. You look at it because you've got Gonzalez, Witten. Come on. Witton's not top five. You know, it's hard for me to say. Go ahead. Give me the list that you were starting to give.

I didn't mean to interrupt. I want to hear your list. I think you've got to look at Mackie Dick and Winslow. At least Mackey and Dick and put him in another category. Like, it's not football that we saw the way we see football anymore. But when you watch highlights about those guys, they are unbelievable game changers. What about Gates? Winslow, awesome.

Gates, one of the best I've seen in person. Just unbelievable separator, terrible blocker. Ozzie Newsom, special, special guy. But, yeah, now I'm looking at it again right now. trying to think of any other name. He's in the top five. It's a fun position because everyone plays it so differently. Think about the way Antonio Gates plays the game

and the way Rob Grankowski plays the game. Well, they were both super athletic big targets as pass catchers. But Grunk, a much better blocker, obviously. Yeah, he's a pretty amazing player. I'll be excited to see how he plays this year. For me, well, Kellyn Winslow, for me in my lifetime of watching the NFL, Kellyn Winslow isn't just the best tight end I've ever watched.

He's one of the best football players I've ever watched. You know, I'm not saying that he's Jim Brown or Lawrence Taylor in terms of, you know, and I didn't really see Jim Brown, but Lawrence Taylor. But Kellyn Winslow, in those seven, eight, nine years, whatever it was in San Diego, he was so dominant. I mean, he was a tight end that basically, you know, defenses had to completely game plan around. You don't see that. I mean, I guess in recent years you've seen it with Gonzalez and Gronk, you know.

I don't know if you've seen, and maybe Gates. I don't know that you ever saw a team have to game plan around Jason Whitten, you know, or Greg Olson, or, you know, guys like that necessarily. Not even a guy maybe like Shannon Sharp. I mean, Winslow was the best I've ever watched. And I've always felt that way, and it's going to be tough to change my mind. But Gronk and Kelsey, by the way, both have potentially another five productive years left. They're only 30 years old. Both of them.

The other guy who was just so special as a pass catcher was Dave Casper in the 70s. I remember him very well. I remember Ozzie Newsom, too. You know, and Jerry Smith, you know, I've said this many times. Jerry Smith should be in the Hall of Fame. Jerry Smith is so underrated all time as a pass-catching tight end. But, you know, the conversation that we had, I think last podcast or maybe it was the podcast before, I thought was about Peyton Manning because I said to you, you could have easily been Dallas

Clark times two, maybe times one and a half, because you said, you really think he's a great player. But to me, Peyton Manning and Chris Cooley together would have been amazing. I mean, it would have been fun. It's funny. I did this after we got done that. I went back and just glanced at year-by-year stats. And it's just so funny to see every second year in an offense.

My receptions go up. So, yeah. Second year. Second year in an offense. Get to know a coordinator, get to know quarterback, second year of offense. Get to know the system. But every other year we switch offenses. Yeah, right.

Gets for two, right? Saunders for two, Zorn for two, and then Shanahan for three. Right. So every time I had a good year, I switch offenses. But, yeah, it's not important. I mentioned Witten, and I'm just looking at this. And trust me, so I like Jace a lot. I do.

I've always been slightly jealous of at least his stats, especially when I'm watching play because I think I was a better receiver than Witten and every bit the player he was. His longevity is phenomenal. But you say that and then you say the dude averaged more than 80 catches a year and 900 receiving yards. Yeah. Stats are through the freaking roof.

Yeah. And he's got that. He doesn't have a ton of flash. But when you watch him play, he's just got a subtle savvy that he knows how to get the job done. And whether or not you had to game plan, and you did for some of those option plays and some of the things that they did with him. But whether or not you decided to game plan, he still ended up with 1,200 catches, which is unprecedented. I mean, that's incredible. I mean, he really, I mean, he had the benefit of playing with better quarter.

You know, playing with Tony Romo, much better situation than you had for much of the time you were playing. You know, I know Jason Campbell was a fine guy in the whole thing. And Brunel obviously, you know, liked you. But it was never, you know, was never a really good and consistent situation of quarterback. I just can't, I mean, I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the fact that Dallas Clark is this, you know, white tight end that sort of is built like you to a certain degree. and I just picture you in number 47 in blue and white with Peyton Manning throwing to you and you becoming an all-time tight end.

Because, I mean, tell me right now, were you better than Dallas Clark? Yeah, I was better than Dallas. Yeah, that's what I think. Dallas Clark did have a 100-cats season, though. Yeah, well, because of who we played with. That's my point. I mean, we ended up statistically fairly close. He has about 80 catches more than another thousand yards.

But he also played three more years than I did. He played that. But Dallas Clark's a good player. Everyone plays a position differently. And some people had the benefit, and some people didn't. I mean, the grunk thing is fun. And when you look at all of this, you look at the grunk stuff and say top tight ends, it's grunks by third tight end at worst that I would pick on my team.

I got to pick a lot of these guys before Witten, so I mentioned Witten, but if you said pick a team, pick tight end for your team, you know, I'd pick drunk probably one or two. Yeah. All right. Let me do a quick read here, and then let's get to some of the Redskins news on Trent Williams and then get to the draft. Quick word about stamps.com, which it's perfect now in the environment we're living in for you to use Stamps.com. as a small business or as an individual. For all our sakes, we need to avoid crowds right now. But what if you need to go to the post office?

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Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in Kevin, DC. That's Stamps.com, enter Kevin, D.C. Stay safe. Use Stamps.com. Whether you're a small business or you're an individual, it works. All right, let's get to some Redskins news, and there was a bunch of news this morning, Twitter-wise, that came out. And actually, a tweet that just came out moments ago from Mike Garifolo. The tweets from mid-morning, Ian Rappaport, with one big trade done and final, meaning the gronk trade, could another one be on the way? The Redskins have talked to multiple teams about a potential trade of left tackle Trent Williams, with the NFL drafted day away and a physical necessary the clock is ticking.

We read to you earlier the Jenna Lane from ESPN tweet about the Buccaneers nearly trading O.J. Howard two months ago to the Redskins in exchange for offensive tackle Trent Williams, but talks fell through. Now, Mike Garifolo just tweeted out moments ago here. Interesting note on the Trent Williams situation, the Redskins have closed the window for Williams and his agent Vince Taylor to work out a trade. Teams often want full control of these situations heading into the draft, and that's the case here. And then Connor Hughes just tweeted out.

Connor Hughes covers the Jets for the athletic. That a league source confirms that things are trending in the right direction regarding a Trent Williams trade. However, it doesn't appear that's with the Jets. Source said they're not the frontrunner at this point, although they've made a call. And then he tweeted out, if Cleveland trades for Trent Williams,

they might then look to trade the number 10 pick in the draft to Tampa Bay. or Miami, both teams have presumed interests in offensive tackles if Cleveland is the team. So if the Jets are out, Cooley, to me, Cleveland would be at the top of the list. Minnesota's, you know, a potential team that would be in the running for Trent as well. What would you take for him? I would take a second. I would prefer that second to be mid to high. a second, but I would take a second.

You want more than a second. I would take a second, and if it could be like Miami's at 39 overall, that would be terrific. Miami's got a couple seconds, so that that would be a possibility. I would take O.J. Howard plus, and I know O.J. Howard was the first rounder, but he's not Trent Williams, so I'd take O.J. Howard plus, if it happened to be with Tampa, But I think it's really interesting how much he wanted traded, and they couldn't get a trade worked out. His side of it could not find a way to work out of trade.

And it's almost scary. They couldn't work out of trade because they just kept saying, you're going to have to pay us. You've got to pay us, too. Aren't they saying that now or not? Or do you think now he's willing to just leave, play for 12-5 somewhere else next year, and then, you know, get to free agency in the off-season?

Maybe it's a clowny deal where the team promises him that they won't franchise him. I think that he has to come to that conclusion. I think both teams can't stand each other. Trent again saying he won't play. You know I think he should just play for the Redskins. They should work out the clowny situation here where they promise him and go to free agency

and you believe that as well. But if that's not the case, then yeah, maybe he's got to do the clowning situation to get a trade done. But then that lowers the value of Trent. if you don't know you're going to keep him, you're going to get a third. That's what they got for Clowny. That's probably what you're going to get if that's the Clowny situation.

You could do the Clowny situation and say if you do get a deal worked out, then that third becomes the second. Or that third becomes a third next year as well. Would you trade Trent Williams to Jacksonville for Leonard Fournett? No. Would you trade Trent Williams straight up? You'd have to give up more for Ingox. than just Trent more likely than not.

Right? And Gokwe's got more of a future and big upside as a pass rusher. Redskins don't really... What did Gakway got left on his contract? Well, I mean, he's demanding a new one. I think it's one year, right? I think. No, I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't do it straight up for Gnacquer. I don't think I'd give up... I like Trent Williams' player. Nope. It's funny, if anyone really goes and watches Trent, you just don't find that kind of guy. He's really special. He's a really special football player. Yeah, that's why I'm not, that's why I'm not giving him away. I get that you're not giving him away, but if he's not going to play, he's not going to play. Well, he has to play.

Basically, but you're asking me, would I give up Trent for In Gokwe? No, I take the second. I take the second versus Trent because I get a guy for four years for sure. I don't have to pay a guy both of. I don't want to do a deal with the guy that I've got to pay, just like I was going to have to pay Trent. Yeah, and Gokwey's got one year left on his deal at 1770, wants a new deal now. And by the way, I think actually, I don't know, I'm not going to get into,

that's not the deal there. Let me just, Trent, there, Trent Williams has to play. in 2020. He can't hold out, even if he doesn't get traded. It's totally impossible and impractical at this point for him to sit out a second straight year, lose all of that money, and then try to make it up next year, two years after his last snap. It's not practical. The Redskins have more leverage. The only part of this where they don't have leverage is that they want an answer on their left tackle. You know, and he's sitting there and he's counting 12-5 on their cap. Now, they have enough room.

The Redskins have the sixth most available cap space right now at roughly $24 million. So if they decided, Trent, the best we could get for you was a fourth. We're not trading you. Sorry, we'll wait this out. We'd love for you to come play for us. And I subscribe to your theory, which is sit down and work it out. I mean, Bruce is gone, the trainer's gone. You know, Rivera, Kyle Smith, sit down.

or whomever, you know, and say, play for us, you know, play well. And the quid pro quo in this is we won't franchise you next year. You know, we'll let you walk at the end of the year if you want to walk. Done. If you can't get at least a second. I'm not going to try. I don't think I want to do it for a third. I don't want to do it for a third.

Yeah, you can't get. Yeah, I don't want to do it for a third. The thing you can do is that you can put the contingency on it, where if it happened to be a third, it would become next year's third as well if they get a deal done within the year. Oh, right. You mentioned that before. That's smart. So therefore, the team, if they end up signing him and he becomes more than a one-year rental,

then you get something in addition to the third. Yes. Yeah. So what do you get? A second third? Yeah, I think that second third would be pretty reasonable. I think that'd be good. I think you'd consider a contingency fourth, but I'd want it to be a third.

Honestly, I wanted to be streaking another two. Okay, yeah, we'll give you, or we'll do the four, and if he signs with you, it becomes a two. Or it becomes next year's two, so it's a four and a two. Not a four and a two, a three and a two. I do a four and a two. It just depends. If that's all I can get. I got an offer for you've got to realize what you're stuck with.

I got an offer for you. I got an offer for you to consider, all right. We're going to trade him to you for a conditional 2021 first. The condition is if you sign him beyond this next year, you give us next year's first. Now, that wouldn't work with... motivation to not sign him. That's true. It's true, but then you're going to lose him, too.

But losing the second is also next year's sort of motivation not to sign him. But the motivation... Say you did that with Cleveland, right? Yeah, I know, I understand. We're in Miami. And Cleveland's all of a sudden, two and seven. They're like, okay, we're not signing you because we're like our hire first. Right.

But I don't think the second's real motivation to not sign a guy. I think you'd keep Trent, especially if you played for you. Anyone that watches him plays, is going to go, oh, yeah, we want him. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. I just, I think it's part sort of what you described a few weeks back when you said, why can't they just sit down and figure this out and have them play for them this year? They need a left tackle. He needs to play. The bad people, the bad man is gone. All right, Bruce is gone. Larry Hess is gone. you know, and if you're the team, you say, look, I'd rather have him pay him 12-5 this year to have a really good left tackle to protect our quarterback that's going to start his eighth game with his third offense, essentially, you know, at the beginning of next year. And we'll make a commitment not to franchise you at the end of the year. And maybe, you know, you'll learn to like us and we'll learn to really love you even more, and we can work out a deal with you next year for a long-term deal.

Maybe even the middle of the season, who knows, because things change. But I would definitely be willing to go down that path if I don't get what I want. And the thing that's frustrating about all of this, we've talked about it before, is just the notion that just like the Kirk Cousin's situation and other situations in the past, this was so mismanaged by the team. And I understand Cooley, I understand Trent's culpable for a lot of what went on. And I totally believe that. And I understand that the team was really upset that he tried to make them out.

to be medically negligent. I understand that. With that said, you could have more likely than not gotten a first rounder for Trent if you had traded him at the right time, if you had made him available, and you'd be sitting in this draft with two number ones, and you'd know what you're in. See, I disagree, and I don't disagree if it had happened if Trent had been honest with you when the season ended, and you did it right when the season ended. As, by the way, you suggested the day the season ended. The 2018 season. Yeah, but when it got to,

where were we June? And he said, I'm not going to play for the Redskins. And because of injury, I think every other team said, that he's not going to play because he wants the contract. And when a guy wants to renegotiate a brand-new contract, a first is not necessarily what you do with anybody, especially coming off the surgery that he was coming up,

and you might not have got him last year. So I don't think they were going to get a first. I think if the first was out there, they would have taken it. Yeah, I mean, this is a debate I've gotten into with Kime and others. Let's put it this way. They didn't get offered a first. I know they didn't get offered a first. Well, that's because they weren't accepting offers.

I know they didn't get offered a first because someone told me. I can't remember who it was, but I was told that they could get offered. They were offered Jadavian Clowney straight up for Trent. Yeah, and to see, I don't have a third for Jadavian Clowning. Yeah. But here's the reason they weren't offered. a first. They weren't, according to John Dorsey, even answering calls. The Redskins never actively tried to trade him. So there weren't, the Redskins, you know, didn't, at least up until that

11th hour of the trade deadline. The reports were that Bruce didn't even answer calls. John Dorsey said that. We never got a chance to hear an offer. And the reports were that the Browns were willing at some point early in the season last year, if not training camp, to offer the Redskins a first for Trent Williams. There are other ways of communication. He could have texted them. We'll give you a first. I mean, it didn't happen.

Well, no, the reporting is the Browns were willing to offer a first, and that the Patriots, before they found out what Trent Williams' contract demands were going to be, were willing potentially to part with a first rounder back in the early portion of training camp. That's wrong. I believe that that's not, that's fake news. But it can't be fake news because the Redskins never made them available. I still believe that the offer was never available.

It was never put out there. How do you know? Why do you dispute the reporting? You heard one side of it. You heard their side of it. I heard, I just heard what was reported. Yeah, but see. That's what I heard what John Dorsey said.

I just don't believe that he made that offer. He can go back and say he was going to make any offers that he wants to say, but he didn't. I just don't believe the offer was made. And the Redskins can say, and by the way, doesn't it benefit them to say, yeah, Trent, nobody's really interested for you, and we're not stupid turning down, you know, big time offers. And that's, you know, guys in our media were getting their information, this is my guess, primarily from the team, and it was in the team's best interest to, you know, let people know that there were no offers like first rounders for Trent.

You know, nobody was really interested. we wouldn't have been stupid enough to turn down a first-round offer, when the reporting was they weren't even accepting offers. They had no intention of trading them. Les Carpenter reported early in the season last year, late in training camp. Bruce's intention is to figuratively bleed Trent Williams, and they think he'll eventually come back and play for them.

They didn't have any intention of trading him. If you had an intention of trading him... They have number 10 right now. You didn't know at the time, but you knew they were going to be in the top 20, you would have taken it. Actually, you certainly didn't know early in the season. Cleveland was considered to be a contender before the season started. But when that started to come out, they were bleeding.

When the Cleveland stuff happened, it was like mid-October. It was their last-ditch champ. You wouldn't assume they would have been a bottom-10 pick. Why would it benefit Cleveland to have it reported out there that they were willing to offer a first for Trent Williams at some point last year? I haven't thought about that. Yeah, I guess my point is you're never going to convince me. Kime is never going to convince me that there was never a first round, you know,

or an approximate thereof offer for Trent Williams for two reasons. One, there was reporting to the contrary, but two, the Redskins never actively tried to trade him. They never tried to create a market for him. They never tried to, he wasn't available. So you really, it's like, it's not a direct apples to apples to the Kirk Cousin situation, but, and you agree with me on this one. The Redskin, the people that say, well, Kirk was never going to resign with the Redskins anyway, especially after Sean left. Well, that may be true, but you'll never know because the Redskins never once made him a bona fide offer that he could either accept or not accept publicly or privately. They were $31 million short.

you know, your boy was way off. And by the way, I think on our show, we tried to explain to them how off they were in terms of the market value for the quarterback. But again, not apples to apples in terms of the analogy, but it's like we'll never really know if Kirk would have accepted it or not. We can guess about what would happen, but he was never given an offer. Trent was never made available. So we'll never really know what they could have gotten. in early 2019, before training camp in 2019, during training camp in 2019, or before the trade deadline during the season last year, because he was never made available.

We do know. Everything for sale. Yeah. Well, if that's true, then the reporting, you know, I don't know why you wouldn't accept the reporting that the Browns were willing to part with a first-round pick. And to me, the team that really had the Redskins been interested in actively trading him to Houston before they made the deal for Laramie Tunsell, Houston would have offered a first round pick. If you take half of the Tunsel package, it would have included a first rounder.

But he can't say that, though, because you just said they offered Gidevi and Clowny straight up. Yeah. Well, that's not a first rounder. Well, it turned out not to be, but maybe in the moment... Apparently, they made, apparently, they made an offer. So that's not a first rounder. Why would you think that the offer would be so much different between Trent and Tunsel, just the age? Maybe they knew Tunsel was going to be a lot easier to retain. Well, is he going to be?

He's going to make a lot of money, right? He is going to make a lot of money. I still would take Trent over Tunsel. They traded two first rounders, a second rounder, and two. players for Tunsell and Kenny Stills. And by the way, Stills is gone now, I think. I think he's gone now. So cut that in half and you get a first rounder minimum. Hey, don't do the Tunsel deal. We'll give you Trent for basically 40 cents on the dollar of what you're offering Miami. Anyway, maybe somebody else wanted Tunsel. Maybe the market was better for Tunsel. I don't know. I can't

wait until this is over, though. Yeah, that's true. All right. Anyway, I do think that the odds favor significantly that something's going to get done and resolved here in the next, you know, tomorrow night's the first round. By the end of the weekend, at the latest, Trent's going to be dealt. That's my guess. What's yours?

I think they get a second for him. I didn't guess what the compensation would be. I just said there's going to be a conclusion to this this weekend. He's going to get dealt. Well, if they're going to get a second. for him, and yeah, there will be conclusion to it this weekend. I think he's done this weekend. I think the trade gets done this weekend.

I think it ends up being a second. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was Miami. Cleveland's second is 41 overall. Miami's second is 39 overall. And if the Jets were involved, 48 overall, but it sounds like the reporting is the Jets aren't, what does Minnesota have in the second round? they've got 58 overall. And they, of course, have the two late first rounders,

which you're probably not going to get. Minnesota's got 58 overall. And there was one other team that I've been thinking about could be a possibility. Minnesota doesn't have a lot of caps rates. They can't. What was that? Minnesota only has $12 million in caps rates. Yeah, but they also have Anthony Harris on a tag that they could rescind.

Which, by the way, he's a hell of a player. I would make that trade. But they already, you know, they like Sean Davis. I guess. I think he's a really good free safety. Minnesota's traded away or allowed most of their defense to leave here in the offseason. It's actually pretty interesting. Okay. They couldn't pay for him. Yeah, exactly. All right, a quick draft hypothetical for you before we get to sort of Redskins' needs and players you like, et cetera. Because I did this this morning on the show. It's sort of a way to gauge the way you feel about Dwayne Haskins to a certain degree.

If Dwayne were in this draft, all right, but you knew what he was last year, like you saw the seven games that he played for the Redskins last year that he started, but he was in this draft, and the Redskins had a desperate need for a quarterback in this draft, would you take him or Tua if Burrow was gone? Tua. Yeah. I think I would too, which tells you that for those that... I would take, you know where I'd take it?

You know where I'd take Duane in this year's draft? Second round. Same place I was taking them last year. Yeah. But I... It's better than saying the... You take him the fifth after seeing a year, but it's not bad. I guess that's one way to put it. I know where you're coming from because you want everybody to know that you like Dwayne.

You think he can play. play. But you don't think he's worth more than a second rounder. You didn't think last year. And you don't think he's more than a second rounder if he were in this year's draft after what you saw. Which, by the way, the second rounder... If they put him on the trade market right now, they're not getting any better than a second. You're right about that. You're probably right about that. They're not getting a first for him. I think it's interesting, though, because I would not, you know, right now, if Chase Young weren't available. Let's just say he's gone. He's not in this draft. And Burrow goes one. I wouldn't take

Tua because of the injuries with Dwayne on the roster and having already spent a first rounder last year in Haskins. But if I hadn't spent the first rounder on Haskins last year and Haskins were in this draft and I didn't have a chance to Chase Young and Burrow was gone, I would take Tua and roll the dice with the injuries. Because I do think that Tua's upsides greater than Dwaynes. I think Burroughs is much greater. You like Burrow more than Tua, too, right? Oh, yeah, I don't think that's even close. A lot of people do, though. A lot of people like Tua more than Burrow? Yeah, a lot of, a lot of the draft experts, if Tua didn't have the injury history coming in would have had Tua as the number one player

on their board. That's well and good, but a lot of NFL people would have taken Burrow before Tua. everyone would have. I would take Burrow, if Burrow, you've already said this, we've already done this, but if for whatever reason Cincinnati decided at the last minute, you know what, Chase Young's the number one player on our board, and we think he is the next, you know, greatest pass rusher of the next 10 years, we're going to take him, we'll start Dalton this year, we'll figure out the quarterback answer next year. I would definitely, if I were the Redskins, take Joe Burrow.

Wouldn't even think twice. And I like Dwayne. I like them more than you do. Yeah, I'm absolutely with you. If Joe Burrell was a possibility, he would be on my team. If you were the GM, would you be aggressively trying to move up one spot to take Burrow? So I just told you everything's for sale. I don't accept your kids.

I think that number one pick for Burroughs almost like their kids. I don't think that picks a sale. I agree. I agree. But let's just say it was for next. You don't have a two right now. What's the different? Is Duane worth a two to them?

I mean, if they like Duane, that would be very helpful. I mean, if they even like them at all, if you could swap first, give them, if you could swap first, give them DeWain and what would you give next year's first two? Well, I mean, if Duane's worth a two, I mean, that's more than what the chart says. No, that's pretty much right around what the chart says. I totally agree with you. Totally agree with you. but Dwayne to move up one spot

Cincinnati gets Dwayne and they get Chase Young Do you have to give up more than just Dwayne to move up that one spot if you're going to get the player you want? I don't know. Maybe. Whatever. Enough with the hypotheticals. What do you think the Redskins need to come out of this draft more than anything else? They need an answer to left tackle.

I think as much as anything else, besides obviously getting Chase Young, which is going to be massive. But you need a left tackle. I think that would be absolutely huge. I think they need a receiver. I think they need a tight end. And I think they need some secondary help. Yeah, the left tackle is going to be pretty hard to get

because you're going to go Chase Young. And if you don't get a second for Trent Williams, and even if you do get a second, possible that it's a it's more of or at least it's perceived to be more of a top heavy left tackle draft with maybe three or four of them going in the first round of the draft i mean you've got the you know you've you've got you know willsworths thomas and beckton all you know projected to be first round guys and even a guy like jones or cleveland could go late first some people like this guy austin jackson that's tony tony pauline told me yesterday he really likes but you know

Without a second, you may not be able, you know, then you're in, you could be in the Jaron Christian category. By the way, real quickly, can Jaron Christian ever become a starting left tackle? I haven't seen anything to show me that so far. So they've got a significant need for left tackle, especially if Trent Williams is gone. Yeah, you've got to have a second. You're right. I like the kid Ben Barch, and I like, well, I'm not sure. there's another dude out of Louisville, Mackayette Bechtin. Yeah, well, he's huge.

He's going on the first row. He's potentially 400 pounds. Yeah. But he's listed at 369, but he moves better than anybody else in the draft. But there's some negative on toughness and resilience and want to. And drug tests recently, too.

But he's a special guy, and then Ben Bartch is a good player. I watched some senior bull tape. He's got some stuff. He dominated St. John's, but that was St. John's. but he looked good at the senior bowl so that'd be interesting and then there's another kid out of a Boise State that's not bad

so there's some guys in the second but I don't yeah you're right on Austin Jackson I watched a little bit he's probably third maybe late second even maybe three because after that I just don't see it

so the other the other what what we're going to say? Pretty good is a kid out of Alabama that plays right tackle you'd have to see him flip Let's assume here for a moment. By the way, let's take a step back. We both think they're going to take Chase Young at number two.

You've already told us many times in previous podcasts how much you love him and how the Redskins shouldn't overthink this at all. You know, there's been reporting here over the last 24 hours or so that there are offers being made that people are interested in moving up to number two. I've already said the following as it relates to this. I'm taking Chase Young unless I get an all-time deal. And at a bare minimum for me to consider it, if it's Miami, I want number five, number 18, next year's number one, and this year's number two. I went three number ones with one of those number ones being next year's number one. And I want their second rounder for three spots.

Anything less than that, not even close? I don't even know if I would take that personally for Chase Young because I'm so convinced that he's going to be a great NFL player. But you feel the same way, right? Is there any offer other than, like, you know, six first round picks that you would take? Or you just... What would you take? Is there anything you would take?

Okay. So we both like Chase Young and we think they're going to take him. So now you get to the third round. Tackles a need. You've already identified that. Who knows if there will be one? Tight end is a need. You agree with that, right?

Yeah, I think tight ends is a big-time neat. There's going to be a bunch of guys at tight-ins that end up starting in the third round. The two names to know are Colt met out of Notre Dame. He'll be a first rounder. He can go higher than people who think. He's not projected to go first round. There's not one mock draft that I've seen with Colquette in the first round. In fact, I have –

He's going to go in the first round. I've seen several mocks with him lasting all the way to the first round. Redskins pick in the third round. I promise you that's not happening. Okay, so that's one of those things I'm going to write down right now. Cole Commet, you've got no worse than what? Mid-second? Yeah, I, Kmetz going in the second.

That worst. Okay. Who else? He's just amazing for me to watch a guy like Kmet play at Notre Dame. and then what happened last year where the kid in Detroit now from my...

Hawkinson. Went all the way Hawkinson went to seven. We have the better player than Hawkinson. Really? Yeah. I think I said this last podcast. I think he is.

A better film, for sure. And then the other dude that is really interesting is Adam Troutman. He looks like he runs, he runs funny. He's got some explosion.

It looks like he runs. runs with correct. Devin Osiasia out of UCLA, I like. He's probably a third or fourth rounder. Jared Pink needs a good blocking tight end out of Vanderbilt. I like him quite a bit. Sadius Moss is interesting. You know I like my guy out of Georgia.

Right. Charlie Warner. Charlie Warner. You're going to have a commandant, and travel and go first one and two. A lot of people, really liked the guy out of Missouri with this crazy last name.

Akwiyogbam-m-nom. I don't know. Whatever his name is. I don't like him. But he's got he's probably got the most twitch out of anyone in this draft. He's just got some question marks.

But sometimes you get these guys and they just turn it on. So there's something to that guy. But you're going to start seeing these tight-in. come off the board. And then if it's the third, there'll be a run of them.

If it's a fourth, there'll be a run of them in the fourth. Whenever it starts, there'll be a run of 10 or 12 of these guys. There's some potential playmakers. Is Kometh better than Noah Phant? I would take him over to Noah Fent. What about Irf Smith from last year, too?

Yeah, I'd take him over Irv Smith. Really? That's why I think he was first. Yeah. I take him over Hawkins. Today, I take over Hawkinson right now. There are some wide receivers in this draft, man. It is a deep class, according to everybody, of wide receiver. You know, some people say there's not a superstar in the class, but it's a deep class.

The Redskins are going to have a chance in the third round to get a guy that, you know, can play. Almost everybody believes that. Who are the wide receivers that you like? There's a bunch of these dudes. I absolutely love and Henry Ruggs at Alabama. C.D. Lamb is an absolute burner, baller. Justin Jefferson at LSU, big-time player.

T. Higgins, I think, is phenomenal. By the way, I love Justin Jefferson. I do, too. I love Jefferson. It's absolutely awesome. Yeah, me too, I agree. T. Higgins. Pittman Jr. out of USC, I think. Michael Pittman Jr.,

He's a phenomenal player. So, I mean, there's 20 names in this class at receiver. It's such a deep class, and you can get guys in the second and third round. But there are five names, four or five names that are pretty special, which is a good draft for receiver. I really love KJ Hamler, in particular, from Penn State. I think he's going to be a star. I think he's Deshawn Jackson.

and apparently he dropped 12 balls last year. You know, he's up there and drops last year. He's tiny, but man, is he elusive? And then the other guy I really like that I, you know, everybody's projecting fourth to fifth round is Tyler Johnson out of Minnesota. You're talking about a much bigger guy. Oh, I love that kid. And all he did was produce at a high level and a team that ended up being a really good team last year.

But that guy has produced and is produced in big games. I think that he is going to play in the NFL. for a long time. I don't know if he's in number one, but he's definitely in number two. And the projected round for him is like fourth. So the Redskins might not even need to use a third rounder. I mean, I'm mentioning receiver because they obviously were very interested in Amari Cooper. And, you know, they want, they didn't add enough playmaking ability for Dwayne through free agency. So I would think, given that they're going to take Chase Young, that some of these, you know, third, fourth, fifth rounders are going to be a to bring in some offensive help.

And because it's so deep, you might really get some good players into the third, fourth, and fifth round. Right. And I think Kyle Smith, especially at a few positions, if not all, but especially at receiver can really see it. So I think they'll do a good job at receiver. There's some good players in the receiver. I mean, you go all the way through.

I think they can add some real playmaking ability. And, you know, I had Smoot on last week, I guess, on the radio show. And he said, and he goes, I like Hamler too, but you've got Stephen Sims Jr. And I'm like, I think Hamler, even at his size, can play on the outside. Like, he's Jackson. Jackson played on the outside. So I don't see why he's got to be a slot guy. And I like Sims, I like Sims Jr.

Like Sims Jr. to me, along with McLaurin, there's some promise there. I think we tend to exaggerate it because we, you know, we're comparing them to, you know, what we've had here recently. But I think Sims Jr. has got a chance to be a really good playmaker for them. Yeah, Sims Jr. was the, I think the diamond in the rough of last year on this offense. He is, he's really good. I think Steven Simps Jr. is really good. His ability to run routes, to move the way he does, to separate.

I think it's just really special. But I still see Sims Jr. as your slot guy, who could play a two if you're in two-tight-end personnel. It's just, I just, like, everyone loves Terry, and I love Terry McClun. I do. I still think he's a great two. I think he's a seed in what every offense would call it. A guy that can move around, your motion guy.

I think he's your Z. I think you need that big-time deep threat X. And when you have Terry on the other side of it, then you have weapons. And Stephen Jim Sims Jr. is a mixing guy. That could have 60 catches. He could be your crowder. Right. But to me, Terry, you needed addition to Terry.

And so that, I think, will be high on their board or high on their important scale. I was watching a couple things of KG Hamler. He's awesome, man. Awesome. That would be a nice mix in. I mean, you don't think there's any chance Cole Commet gets out of the mids portion of the second round. I've seen Hamler mocked in some third rounds. I don't think there's any chance he makes it past the middle part of the second round.

I just don't. I mean, not the way the game's played these days and the need for guys. that are just absolute playmakers with the ball in their hand, which he's one of them. You know, there was news yesterday from Ben Standing that the team, essentially that they're uncertain about his health right now for next year. And I think that's one of the reasons they added Peyton Barber. I think the J.D. McKissick thing was more because they weren't going to bring back Chris Thompson. You know, Geis is obviously a risk with his injury history, if not more.

And AP is, you know, 35 years old. I would not be surprised if the Redskins add a running back in this draft. Oh, I think you should have a running back in every draft. Why do you say that? Because there's always guys that you find in the fourth, fifth, six rounds that end up being good players for you. And to me, I would trust your opinion on this as much as anybody because you seem to find running backs out of thin air,

and you always find guys that end up being four, fifth, six-rounders. But you look at running back in this college system, and you don't always see the things that you want to see, especially when we're watching television, that translates to an NFL running back where I think people that watch it close can find those certain traits and say, look, it's just an all-gun guy, but this guy makes zone cuts like crazy. It's just they don't do it the way you'd want to see

this guy do it. So I won't look at a ton of running back this year. But yeah, they'll probably add a guy at running back. There are guys that I love. I really do like J.K. Dobbins more than Swift, more than Taylor. I love Edwards-Hillard from LSU. I think he's got so much toughness and he's built so low to the ground. Dobbins, to me, is going to be a star at the position. I love Edwards O'Halear. I like Acres out of Florida State. I think he's really versatile, can fly, and was on a bad team, really. I mean, I know it's weird to say that about Florida State, but that was not a good offensive football team, and he figured it out. I like Zach Moss. I like A.J. Dillon from BC. And then I'm going to give you a guy that I think actually could end up being a major contributor in the NFL as a sixth round or seventh rounder, maybe even an undrafted free agent, especially after what he ran his 40 time in. And that's Javan Leak out of Maryland.

Like, you know, the Maryland players, I'm always curious why the Redskins haven't focused more in recent years on Maryland players. You know I love digs. You know I loved In Gokwe. Both of those guys, you know, the skins were in, they're in the backyard. They didn't take them, and they could have taken both of them. Javon Leake is probably going to be selected if he gets selected after Anthony McFarland, who ran like a 4-4 at the Combine and is projected fourth round, fifth round somewhere in there out of Maryland.

And McFarland's really good, played it to Matha, you know, and had some big moments, you know, in college when he was healthy. Javan Leak, Cooley, this dude's like every time he touched the ball in college, he was a threat to take. at the distance. He's a great kickoff returner, not that you need that at the NFL level. He never returned punts. I don't know if he can, but he's a guy super late that, you know, it's funny because I mentioned that to Loxley when I talked to him last time, and Loxley basically said, Javon Leek's going to make somebody very, very happy. He's going to play in the NFL. And some people don't even have him getting drafted. But those are some of the guys that I really like. I like P. Ryan out of Florida, even though he's slow. Time timing-wise, he's just one of those vision backs,

you know. But you're, you know, you make such a good point. It's like with these backs, sort of like with corners, right? It's like scheme means everything. You know, the kind of scheme you're in, you know, can make or break you regardless of your talent. It's, it's, it's, it's, It's important to backs and tight ends, I think, as much as any position. Yeah. It's so big time. By the way, I like Anthony, or Antonio Gibson out of Memphis. Yeah, he's got to watch.

It's a big back. Yeah, he can, he, he, uh, Memphis has had some players just in recent years period that can, that can play. Um, I'm still waiting for my guy, my receiver, um, that plays for the Bears, uh, to end up being a really good player. But, yeah, they're good backs in this draft. They're good corners in this draft. You know, the Redskins can certainly add corner depth in this draft should be able to.

You know, that could be a third round pick. A lot of people, you know, like a guy like Jeff Gladney at a TCU who could be there in the third round, potentially. And, you know, I'm trying to think of your other needs. They still might be looking for an inside linebacker, maybe. I don't know. Bostick. I think you should be looking for an inside linebacker. The position that I think that they could absolutely feel.

They don't have a guy right now. You don't know what Ruben Foster is going to be. So yeah, that's a great spot for them to think about. Back to the quarterbacks real quickly. I just wanted to mention this. I like Jalen Hertz. He's not going to be a first-round pick more likely than not. He's one of those guys that, you know, I've seen mocked as late.

is the third round, even the fourth round a few months ago. I don't think there's any chance Jalen Hertz isn't an early second round pick. And I think that it'll be one of those things that after tomorrow night, people will be trying to trade up if they don't have the pick to take him. He's a very cool, calm, you know, doesn't get rattled quarterback, dual threat, obviously. He's competitive as hell. He turns the ball over too much sometimes casually, but I've pointed this game out for people who are listening to go watch. Go find the Oklahoma Bailer game from last year.

Oklahoma is down 31 to 3, 31 to 10 in that game, and Hertz puts that team, a great team on his back on the road and wills it to a win that ultimately, you know, saved their playoff hopes last year. I just like Jalen Hertz. I loved what he did, you know, in the way he handled himself at Bama when Tua came in in the championship game. And then he had a chance the next year in the SEC title game to replace Tua to beat Georgia. There's something about him that I just like. And I think that, you know, if he gets in the right system with the right staff and they put the right scheme around him, that he's got a chance to be, you know, special. He can make plays. You know, Russell Wilson like make plays.

Oh, he's a winner for what's Baltimore were drafting. Yeah, right. Well, that would doom RG3, more likely than that. A couple more things before we run for the day. You've told us your draft days stories in the past, and if people haven't heard it, I mean, sorry, Cooley's told the story of him getting drafted

and what he was doing in the whole thing many times. I'm curious, though, what happens right after you get picked? like who was the first person you talked to? How quickly did you come to Washington? Who sets all that up? Who did you meet when you got here? What do you remember about after you were picked? Like right after?

Well, everyone told me that you would get calls, especially as it got closer to your draft from different teams or even throughout the day saying, hey, look, if we take you here, would you be excited to come? I got no calls. I got nothing all day. That was the draft.

What would they do? Saturday? It was a Saturday, right? Saturday Sunday. First round, first, second, third round was on a Saturday. Okay. I think that's what it was. And so I knew I was in third round,

and so it was like 8 o'clock and seven o'clock in Utah. I'd been sitting around watching stupid draft all day, and I thought that I could have went in the second round. I had no calls. I was starting to think I wasn't going to get drafted in the third round. I kept checking my phone. I really didn't have service at my mom's house, but everyone had her landline as well.

So I went outside to the front yard to start looking at my phone to see if I'd gotten any calls or messages, which I hadn't. And then I promise you, mid-second to the minute I went outside, I hadn't gotten up from the couch. You stared at the TV, thinking I was going to get drafted, and you run through, like, Ooh, this tight end got taken. This team needs one.

I'd like to go here. This would be cool. Nothing. I walked outside. I was outside for two minutes. Everyone started cheering. Obviously, I knew that that had to be me. Getting drafted.

Still no calls. No less than 10 minutes went by. My brother said, oh, hey, sorry, there's a call for you. He had been taking calls on the home phone. and this was before cell phones were big. And so he had putting Joe Gibbs on hold. Joe sat and waited. He said, hey, this is Coach Gibbs.

Are you excited to be a redskin? I said absolutely yes. And we had a party the next day with my college football staff and everyone came over and said congratulations. And we talked about D.C. And I was out there the next week. It was the next week.

I missed my, it was pretty quick. I remember trying to do a bunch of phone interviews. I had to do a bunch of phone interviews. That's awful, by the way. I bet you, you know what? I don't know that we've ever talked about this. I guarantee you, I talk to you. Because you, because that weekend, I was, 2004, was I, would I have been hosting,

I probably was on the draft coverage, but probably not hosting it. So maybe I didn't talk to you. Yeah, go ahead. So you get on the phone with Gibbs. By the way, did you know a lot about Gibbs or not? No, I would say no. I didn't know very much about the risk of history. I was a Broncos fan.

Did I know who Gibbs was? Yes, for certain I knew who Gibbs was. Did I know about the excitement for Gibbs coming back to D.C.? No, I did not. I did not quite understand what it meant here until, Really until I got here until the first training camp when you saw thousands and thousands people out there watching practice. That was weird, by the way.

Oh, I bet. For the Gibbs return, it was crazy. It was insanity. It was fun. But yeah, I didn't know much about it. And I know I was in town the next week for the rookie minicamp. I missed my first flight, our guy that was in charge of it at the time. Derek Crawford, it was a shocker. No one misses their first flight with the biggest

job of their life. I was on time, too. I was at the airport. There was a problem in Salt Lake. What were people telling you about Washington? What were people telling? Because one of the things you immediately are starting to think about is, I'm going to move to Washington, D.C. What were people telling you about Washington? Well, I understand what Washington, D.C. is. I don't remember. I thought that I was going to move to Washington, D.C. I shouldn't have, though, because I knew that I'd been out here. I came on a visit.

But I didn't quite understand. You come on a visit. He landed Dolis. Joe Gibbs, in my visit, Joe picked me up from the airport. Oh, he did. He picked you up. Yeah, I remember you telling me that. Personally, yeah, Joe picked me up, and he drove you around. and I guess I didn't know that it was in Ashburn, Virginia. I remember thinking, this is going to be wild. I'm going to live in Washington, D.C. You know, that's actually...

I lived in Hamilton, Virginia, for the first three years. That's actually pretty funny because you're right. Like, people that fly into Dulles when they're coming to Washington, D.C., and they land at Dulles, and then they, you know, get into a car or an Uber now, and they're like, hmm, like, this isn't what I think about when I think about Washington, D.C., because you're way out there in Virginia. You know, that's where the airport is. There are a lot of cities where the airport isn't downtown, and it's way out somewhere else.

But when you fly into Reagan, it's a totally different experience. Like you're flying around, you know, monuments and coming in and landing, and then once you get into a vehicle and you're, you know, whether it's a cab or an Uber or whatever, you know, there's the Potomac River and there's the Washington Monument, there's the Capitol, and there's everything right there. I did fly into Reagan after I missed my flight. I do remember that. Not on your visit, but after you were picked.

Yeah, well, I was supposed to fly into Dolos and the next fastest they could give me here was into Reagan. So I do remember that. And then I think one of Dan's drivers, Kevin, who's still around picked me up, and then we drove at George Washington Memorial Parkway, back over and that was cool seeing the river and seeing all this stuff that was cool and I thought I was going to live in D.C.

But. Yeah. Obviously. Right. Not the case. And so life wasn't dramatically different. Was there? I think I'd only, I mean, I traveled to East Coast to play football games and I think I'd only been across

the Mississippi to stay for more than a day like once in my life. What was that for? The wrestling tournament in Pittsburgh in high school. There was there for like five days. I think I was in Pittsburgh. That was the only place I was ever really at. After you became a Redskin,

was there a pick, a draft choice that the team made that when that guy showed up for the first, you know, minicamp or OTA or practice or whatever, you knew that they had made the right choice. Like, did anybody, a draft choice where, I mean, and in your class, obviously Sean Taylor was in that class. but after you became a pro like was there anybody that they picked

that you're like wow they got this one right no I'm trying to think I didn't care that much in my first especially my first few years as I played so true as long as they weren't drafting it I remember sitting and watching

drafts through the first and second round just hoping they weren't in a draft a tight end yeah well I mean I mean Sean was obvious. Until they drafted Fred Davis, did they ever draft a tight end?

Yeah, I think we drafted a couple later. I should know their names, but I think we drafted a couple later on picks. What was your first impression of Sean Taylor? I'm sure I've asked you this before, but, you know, it's draft time. But he's amazing. That's absolutely amazing, that he was completely confident that he believed in himself, that he knew that he belonged to the NFL. and he was

he was a freak who was your first friend I'm trying to think of my first friend Brian Kozlowski same question except flip it around was there somebody that got drafted where when you saw him for the first time

you're like oh god they made a huge mistake come on Devin Thomas you could tell right from the jump that he couldn't do it. Oh, you know, that was a bad draft, that 2008 draft. Oh, it's horrible. I mean...

Hop the bottom. It was just like grab bag. I mean, Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, the three second rounders after basically Vinnie and Dan slapped each other in the back telling each other how great they were that they traded out of the first round and picked up extra picks. And they took Malcolm Kelly who hadn't been healthy and had red flags all over them. Fred Davis should have had red flags all over them. Fred Davis should have had red flags all over him, and Devin Thomas couldn't play. The guy, you know, the guy that ended up having, I think, the longest career is Chad Reinhardt out of that draft.

Chris Horton played for a while. Yeah, he had that cessamoy. Rob Jackson played for a while. Rob Jackson. Yeah, he did. He did. So I'm looking at this through 2009, 10. In 2010, they drafted Trent Williams.

That one was obvious. He could play. He could absolutely. play. You noticed it were day one. Day one. No question. Until you get to Robert Griffin, and I think everyone was excited about Terrigan. But Terrigan didn't blow you away as far as practice. No, there's not a guy. There's not a guy that you just went, oh, wow. Other than Griffin. Until then, yeah. Trent Williams.

Carlos Rogers had a lot of talent, but. I don't know. Manuel White, by the way, was drafted in the fourth round that year with the Rogers draft. He was a fullback that they wanted to play tight end. That was the name I was trying to think of. No, there's not a guy. There is not a guy.

They drafted Tyler Ecker as a tight end, who's a good friend of mine from Michigan as a tight end in the seventh round in 2007. That was not a concern. He was a great dude, though. Nope. Not a guy. I think Iraqpo had some stuff to him early. You could tell that he was going to be an NFL player, Iraqpo. What about, just now I've got the draft thing up. What about, God, remember the preseason where Marco Mitchell, everybody thought he was really good? Did you guys think he was good? Yeah, but we didn't think that he was really good.

Right. That was like 2009. Yeah. What about Landry? I mean, he was such a. physical, you know, freak. He was so weird from day one that it was hard to, he even looked like he could play. He was always a strange dude. I have no problem with Loran.

I'd never had a problem. I thought he was fine. He was just a strange dude. What about? He thought he could play. You know, one of the things, you know, I don't know why it came up recently, but, you know, the Redskins traded up in the 2005 drafts.

gave up, you know, next year's first to draft Jason Campbell, you know, which, by the way, was the pick after Aaron Rogers, you know, in that 2005 draft when Rogers was falling. Gibbs clearly had fallen in love with him when they went down to work out Rogers and other Auburn players. What was the impression of Jason Campbell early on? He was there, that he was just a guy. I think that we were, especially as an offense, really committed to Brunette. I think we all like Brunel.

I don't remember Jason Campbell's first year very well. I really don't remember thinking much of him. Did you ever... Not in any way. Not in any way. Did you ever think at any point that Jason Campbell would live up to being a first-round pick? I was always optimistic on almost all of our guys. I didn't think of it the way you think of it or the way I think of it now.

Yeah, I thought he would be fine. I didn't ever, I don't remember thinking Jason Campbell's terrible. Right. I don't think any fans ever thought that watching him. You know, like he's a big dude. He could throw it. There was just nothing, you know, that was ever special about him. Like, I can't, you know what's really strange?

I can't remember one vintage Jason Campbell game except for the long touchdown pass that he threw to San to beat the Saints in Zorn's year. You know, it was like the second week of the year. It was the home opener. I don't, other than that, I don't really, is there, is there a game, an iconic Jason Campbell game? I don't think there is. He made a big throw to me against Carolina late,

you know, a third down play to win a game. He did? Yeah. Yeah, he made a big throw. But I don't remember his game. I don't either. I remember that the long touchdown pass to beat the Saints in Zorn's first year, like it was an embarrassing opener against the Giants who were the defending Super Bowl champions,

and we opened up with them on a Thursday night in the Meadowlands and got beat and were horrible on offense. And then came home and Campbell was great. And he threw, I don't know, like an 80-yard touchdown pass. to Santana Moss at the end of the game to win the game. That's the one game I remember. Other than that, I cannot remember like a standout Jason Campbell remarkable game, really. One other thing about previous Redskins drafts. I did this thing last week on Jordan Palmer, Carson Palmer's younger brother.

The Redskins drafted him. Did you get to know him at all or not? Loved him. Still know him, still talk to him. Do you know that he's become like this quarterback whisper? Do you know his whole deal? Apparently, he's got the biggest football camp there is right now, the best football camp to go to as well.

Yeah, I know his whole deal. Yeah, he's, it's called quarterback summit. It's a quarterback developmental thing that he's and he's developed a bunch of really good players. He got Joe Burrow before last year. He's had some, you know, a bunch of dudes. So you really liked him? Yeah, I was so sad when we released him.

He was on the team. He was going to make the team. But he never played in the preseason, and then he went in against Jacksonville in the fourth preseason game. Anybody could have went in and done better. It was so bad. It was the bedwether of the week award. So, yeah, that was brutal.

So he couldn't do it. He couldn't play, but obviously he's turned into quite the coach and mentor. Yeah, well, he's been around it. You know, he's seen it on a lot of levels. Brother was a good player. Carson was a really good player. Yeah. And he's put in the work to do what he's doing.

He knows every GM in the league. He knows most calls all the coaches in the league. He goes, and he's a part of every NFL convention, every NFL get together. He's in it, man. He's doing a good job. It's a lot of work for him. He's developed and tutored. Patrick Mahomes, Deshawn Watson, Joe Burrow.

There's others on the list that I'm forgetting, but people have really grown to respect him as, you know, sort of a quarterback, you know, developer. And, you know, it's interesting about that. You know who else is doing it? Who? John's Beck. Is he? Mm-hmm. Why don't you do something like that with tight ends? I should. That'd be awesome. I should do that. I mean, do you think Palmer makes a bunch of money doing this? I have no idea. He's got to be now, right? Because it's like, you know, essentially people are, you know, wanting to go to him. He's done a, yeah, I should do that. I've thought about doing that.

You don't have to just do it with pro players, but it'd be fun to have, it'd be fun to have a group of guys for three months before the draft, like the combine stuff, have a group of high school kids at some point. That'd be fun. You've got to have a facility, you've got to have a bunch of stuff to do that. Yeah. All right. What else?

All right. I've got to go. I know. You got nothing else you want to say? How are you guys doing? We're doing great. Are you falling asleep at 7 and waking up at 4 a.m? I got up at 2.30 today. It was crazy.

I don't know. Well, tomorrow night we get to watch the draft. You know, I went outside my garage two days ago. And a raccoon had spilled two buckets of paint trying to get cat food. So I went over to get the power washer. I put it in my barn. I came back about a half an hour later. My son had gotten into the paint.

He got paint all over my driveway, all over all of my cars, all over. He's everything in the garage. Oh, my God. Power wash for like two hours. He thought he was so great. He was so happy about it. Oh, did you take pictures? Was he covered in the paint?

Had to tell. All right. I'll talk to you later. Stay well. All right, buddy. See you. See you. That's it for today.

back tomorrow with Tommy to preview the draft again.