The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley on SB 57 & OC Spot

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Cooley and Kevin today with tons of football talk. Chris recapped the Super Bowl and then the guys got to Eric Bieniemy, Greg Roman, and the Washington Commanders' OC job. Also, the boys discussed Derrick Carr and where he will land.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. All right. Cooley is with me today on the show. He is back from St. Lucia, which is, I think, where you were on vacation.

I do want to quickly read a couple of reviews. This one from HTT Dubbs via Apple Podcasts. He gave us five stars and said, Lifelong Skins fan living in Bear Country. I don't know if that Chicago Bear Country or Bear Country as in maybe out in the Rocky Mountains. Love your insight and honesty on all topics, especially love when Captain Chaos is on the show. More Cooley, the better. Keep it up, Kevin.

Thank you, HTT, Dubs. This one from Justin. I originally found Kevin back when I first heard about Cooley doing film breakdowns when they had a show together on the radio station. I'm not from D.C., but I've always been a fan of the team, and Cooley's take on the game, intrigue me. Now the podcast has me listening every day. Thank you from Justin.

And then, yeah, from Jack. Love the podcast. Not original to say, but Cooley and Tommy are gems. Cooley's back with us. Did you have a nice trip to St. It was St. Lucia, correct? It was St. Lucia. And how was it? You were there for quite a while.

It was amazing. I was gone. Total time, like 11 days traveling. That's a long trip away from kids. It was. It was. It was a long trip. Well, I guess you really count at nine because we saw our kids each of their left to. Whatever, it's not important. There's long trip away from kids. It was great. We haven't had a chance to do many of those trips away from kids. We haven't left our kids much in the last since they've been born.

Is that really the, is that the first trip for you and Maddie away from kids? No, no, no. But it's the first, it's the longest we've been away from kids. Yeah. Yeah, we didn't. So it went fast. It was good. Yeah.

Weather beautiful the entire time. St. Lucia, I think I asked you this, but is it British or Dutch? It's British. It is British. So I haven't been there. What was it like? Was it a typical, you know, Caribbean, beautiful water, beautiful beaches? Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. All those things. It was great. We did like a Sandals resort. Okay. How was the food?

We did the all-inclusive deal. It was actually pretty good. Okay. I didn't. Yeah, food was good. drinks were plenty and we went with some friends

three or four groups of friends out there it was awesome I loved it it was great to just be with my wife I mean it was great to hang out with all our friends it was great to be with my wife without our kids for nine days and it was great

to not do anything now they did book the trip back on the Super Bowl right Super Bowl Sunday was day we flew back. We flew out of St. Lucia. We left a hotel at about 1130, got into Miami around 8 o'clock. It's a drive from Europe. Like the travel from here is the only downside. So it's about, I think both trips were over 24 hours. Because we couldn't get twice a good layover. That's absurd. You can't, you can't go Wyoming to the Caribbean. to a little island in, you know, in beautiful Caribbean territory, and it takes 24 hours door to door.

You go to Sydney, it takes 24 hours door to door. What are you talking about? What did you, how many flights did you have? You can't fly out a billion. So it's American Airlines into St. Lucia. There could be another one, and somebody could tell me that. But we looked, and we even looked again while we were there, because all the girls booked the trip and all the guys are like,

Whoa. Why do we have a 12-hour layover in Miami? Uh-huh. But we looked at, I mean, we looked at Bozeman, Montana for another airport, which is a three-hour drive and different. There's not. Where'd you fly out of Billings? So here was the flight. Here was a flight. Trip there. Drive to Billings, which is two-hour drive. Oh, my God. Yeah. Two-hour drive to Billings.

Now, my airport, Cody Airport, is 15 minutes, but there were no good flights out to Cote. Sure. Okay. Drive to Billings, fly to Phoenix, fly to Charlotte, eight-hour layover in Charlotte. Okay. Fly to St. Lucia. You're telling me you couldn't do, like, Billings, Denver, Miami, boom there? Something like that?

I just did Billings, Phoenix, Charlotte, there. Just, we're missing the boom. It was more like, let's check out how soft the airport floors are for eight hours. Oh, that's ridiculous an eight-hour layover. I bet I could have booked you a better trip. I bet I could have gotten you there in, I bet I could have gotten you there in 10 hours. Well, you couldn't have. It's more than 10 hours flight time.

I'm looking right now. This is crazy. It's five hours to get to the, like, if I flew directly out of buildings on a private jet, it's still more than 10 hours. It's still at least 10. It's 10. It might not be more than 10, but I'll bet it's like 9. Maybe 9.

Private jet. Cody Airport, wheels up, net jets, whatever you want to do. Nine hours. Wow. Yeah, I'm looking at some of these. you're right. 18 hours 13 minutes. The best trip is an 18 hour, 13 minute trip

from Billings to St. Lucia. That's the best one I can find. And that was amazing. Some of these are, there's one flight. It's 28 hours, six minutes. Are you fucking kidding me? I mean, you should have gone to Sydney. You should have gone Billings to L.

Does Billings have a flight to L-A-X? Yeah, yeah, we could go, we could go to Hawaii, which was what we decided next year. You go Billings, LAX, Hawaii, or Cody Denver, Hawaii. I think Denver has a Hawaii play. Right, much faster trip. Somehow we all decided we were going to do it. This trip got booked a year ago. Somehow we all decided St. Lucia or Sandals, and I just, we went.

It was fine. Had you been with kids or doing it for business or, whatever, would have sucked bad. But we all hung out in the airport together, and, I mean, it was like a small hobo camp on the airport floor, both sides we had to stay. For the most part, we were hanging out with six of our friends, and we did it. What was the beer, what kind of beer were you drinking the entire time? Piton.

I don't, I'm not familiar with it. P-I-T-O-N. Was it good? The peaton Mountains. I don't want any more peatons right now. Okay. Got it. I've had my fill of peatons.

Yeah, it's good beer. It's like, I don't know. It's like red stripe. It tastes like red stripe, kind of. Yeah, I was going to say. Tommy's, like a Caribbean beer. Tommy's down in the panhandle of Florida, in Destin, Florida, drinking red stripe every night.

The longest trip we ever took, I may have told this story before, so if I'm being repetitive, I apologize. But it was when my first born was only, 18 months old. My in-laws were living in Sydney, Australia, and we went to visit them. And we left, you know, probably Dulles, flew to L.A., and then flew to Sydney from there. He was 18 months, and on the five and a half, six-hour flight, whatever it was, from Dulles to L.A., he basically cried and screamed the entire time. And we were in, we were in, we were in,

in business class. And when the flight ended, there were several people that got out, but they were getting back on because it was the same plane. We were taking the same plane. And I just stood up and I said, hey, the good news

is, you know, we have finished this leg of the flight. The bad news for those of you that are moving on to Sydney, you're going with us, including my son. But he couldn't have been better for that next stretch. He like slept the rest of the way and it was um got it all out but it was you know that was a true

24 hour door to door trip that's the longest trip I've ever taken um the idea of going to st lucia on a 24 hour trip is not appealing by the way so on but but it was great when you got there understood it's always great when you finally get to the place and maybe some travel troubles travel headaches makes arriving there even better. Like that first beer and that first beach sitting out on the beach, that had to be nice. It was awesome. Look, the travel's fine. You're funny.

My buddy, you just reminded me of that first beer. We got to the resort, and they told him that he had taken the wrong bag. From the airport? From the airport. It was identical, but they told him he had taken the wrong. back. It was an hour and a half drive from the airport to the resort at the end of 26 hours, and he had to drive back and back to go get his own back. Oh, my God. You imagine the end of 26 hours getting back in a van and driving three more of these windy side hills where they've tried.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on for how long was the trip from the airport to where you were staying? It was an hour and a half, but he had to go. We got all the way to the resort, dropped us off. So he had to go an hour and a half back to the airport, switch bags and come back. Oh, my God. I would have gotten hammered on that ride. Dude, I think every guy, I think every guy there said, like, we should go. With him? We're not.

No. Yeah, I think somebody should go back with him. They were like, hmm, an honest mistake, but I can't. I mean, I felt bad that I didn't go with him. But. Honest mistake, but he made it. I didn't. All right.

So you saw some of the Super Bowl, but not the whole game. Yeah, so we saw the second half of the Super Bowl. I saw some of the second quarter. Because you got to book a trip home on Super Bowl Sunday. That's what you got to do. Well, why didn't you? A lot of the second quarter, then I had to go through customs. And I was watching the game in the customs line, but it's not like you're, I'm holding my phone.

In Miami. In Miami. So then we get. get to this restaurant in the Miami airport. And they have all this crazy music playing. I looked at

the guy and I said, dude, do we listen to the Super Bowl? And he said, no, it's airport regulations that we play music. We cannot play the TVs. Even on Super Bowl. And I said, it's the Super Bowl.

And he wouldn't change it. And the funny thing is, there's about two minutes left in the game. Everything in the Miami airport shuts down at 10 o'clock. So he's like, you guys got to go. No, we're going to watch the end of this. We got the entire second half. Okay.

And had dinner and hung out. Yeah, I got to see some of the second quarter. Like, I walked back into the bar really like right around the fumble six that wasn't. I saw the first one on my phone. And then the rest of it, I'm pretty caught up on. Who booked the travel for Super Bowl Sunday? I mean, you clearly were not involved, or maybe you were and you just didn't care? I think all the girls booked.

I think all the girls booked to travel. I'm fine with it, Kev. Honestly, I'm joking that you don't do it. I really don't care. Right, I know. I can go back and walk a game. It's not a big deal to me. It's way more fun doing what we did than booking something around watching a stupid game.

I hear you. Not stupid. Right, right. Although there are certain games that I would not allow me. my wife to book the travel around. But I understand. It's a Super Bowl and... Wow.

I'm surprised that it wasn't on... Did you have... It wasn't an option on the plane? Or were you flying? No, they had no TVs on the plane. I guess I could... You know what? I probably could have paid for Internet.

Yeah. And watched it. But it would have been slow and pixelated. All right. So what did you think of the game, or at least the part of it that you saw. I think one in watching again, like Andy Reid is brilliant. He's as good as it gets right now.

I know that you can say some clock management things and different. But Andy Reid is so good. He figures out ways to win games. Patrick Mahomes is unbelievable. He's just unfreaking believable. You saw when he got tackled earlier in the game. when he gets up and his ankle hurts. And you can just see in his face like,

damn it. The guy was doing all right until this moment. But then that weird switch went off, and he's like, I'm not going to change. Go back. He kind of limped off and limped around. And then he just continues to make these throws and continues to make these plays.

It's amazing. And the run he puts together at the end of the game. Get him down there near the goal line. it's just like, how does this guy do this stuff? He's amazing. Jalen Hertz was amazing. Another takeaway, and I'm not, I'm more sold on Jalen Hertz than you.

I have been since we've talked to the playoffs. Not true. I'm a big Jalen Hertz fan. I've always been a Jalen Hertz fan. I'm more sold on Jalen Hertz than you. What do you mean? What do you mean? We had this conversation.

a week ago or two weeks ago about Mahomes is an immediate hall of famer. Yeah. The youngest to be a hall of famer. And then what does it do for Josh Allen if he were to go? And I said, what's about Jaylen Hurts? I mean, Jalen Hertz is not far off of this. It's not Mahomes. Not Mahomes.

No, no, no, no. But he's not far off of being considered one of the top five to six quarterbacks in the league. Well, that's interesting because I had a guy on radio this morning and I said, what did Sunday's game do for Jalen Hertz? And he said, it puts him into the conversation where Mahomes, Borough, Josh Allen are right now. And I said, really, you have him at that tier level, like tier one. And he said, yes. I've been a big Jalen Hertz fan for a while.

I thought Jalen Hertz would take the next step this year in Philly would be really good. With that said, Jalen Hertz is not at that level. I think he's a really good quarterback. I think it was legitimate that he was in the MVP, you know, conversation. And maybe if he doesn't get hurt and miss, you know, a few games at the end of the year, you know, he would have been right there and maybe even have a chance to do it. But I will say this about, I don't think he's a tier one quarterback. You know, to me, it's still, in terms of the tiers, it's Mahomes one.

And I think that that was any kind of conversation. about, you know, Mahomes and Burrow and Mahomes, Burrough Allen being, no, no, no. To me, number one, 100% is Patrick Mahomes. And then we can talk about who else is in Tier 1. And I put Josh Allen still with Burrow. I don't have Burrow like way above Josh Allen because he got to the AFC championship game and because they beat Buffalo in that snow game. I still think Josh Allen is great. I still put Aaron Rogers into that category. And then I think we can talk about the next tier, which would include, you know, I think Deshawn Watson, if he gets back to what Deshawn Watson was, Justin Herbert, although Justin Herbert could push Tier 1. I mean, the bottom line is there weren't a lot of great

good, the number of great quarterbacks were really reduced this year. But Hertz is in that next conversation. Let's put it this way on the hurt conversation. Let's put it this way on the hurt's conversation. And this is what I was trying to explain to you a week ago. And I love the way you just put it. So this makes it even easier. Mahomes is not in a

tier. Mahomes is Mahomes. Yep. Agreed. He's 1A. He's 1A. He's beyond a tier. Then there's the tier of Burrow, Allen, wherever, if you wanted to think about her,

I don't know if Herbert's there. If Watson you could get back to there, but I think that here, and what I still don't know you is it. Rogers? Rogers. Rogers, for sure. It puts hurt into the conversation. And that also is, it's got to include next year, but he is at the very peak of tier two. The very peak, the apex.

Well, wait a minute. Of the second tier. Oh, yeah. Okay, so you had tier one being, Mahomes isn't in a tier. and then it's Alan, Burrow, maybe Herbert, Rogers, and then we go to Tier 2. Not Herbert. Not Herbert.

Okay, so don't put Herbert there. So then we go to Tier 2 and he's near the top of that list. I'm with you on that. I think that makes it, like him taking that team to the Super Bowl and playing the way he did in the Super Bowl. And really, I mean, doing everything to win a game for a team, because Mahomes and the Chiefs took over with five minutes and whatever, five minutes and change, and Hurts never saw the field again.

I thought Hertz was the best player on the field Sunday. I said that, start Monday. I said it yesterday again. I thought Jalen Hertz was the best player on the field. I had my guy from PFF, Nick Acker, John. He said it was the highest rated performance by a quarterback in a Super Bowl since they've been doing it. It was the highest rated performance by any quarterback all season long. Hertz had a 92.9 pf grade.

Mahomes was like an 89.8 or whatever. And I would have considered giving Hertz the MVP, even though his team lost. I know some people, and a lot of you think that that's ridiculous. If he had gotten the ball back and the game had gone to overtime, I think Hertz may have won the MVP win or lose in overtime, unless he really, you know, if he did something terrible. But he was, you know, one more possess. he was going to throw for $350 in the game instead of 304.

I thought he was the best player on the field. Or he was going to run for $100. Or run for $100. Yeah, no, I think it puts him right there. And that's, I mean, that's that aspect of the Super Bowl, but we talked about that. I really like him. I really like Hurts. I like the way he plays.

I like the compliment him run past. He's awesome. He is awesome. He's like such a modern day Randall Cunningham. But it's because it's not Vic and it's not Lamar and it's not, like, he's almost like Randall. There are a couple things that I wanted to ask you about. Number one is the call. What did you think?

Did you think that it was a hold or not? I feel, well, I know it's a hold. I can see that he hold and then he hooks him. So it's a two-par penalty. I don't know how I feel about this penalty in the moment, but I know it's a hold. I just think you have to be really careful with what you call in critical situations and critical games, especially when he's cut, that little jersey tugs within five yards. But it's a hold.

I agree. I don't want that game to end on that play. Nor do I. But I don't know. I've really thought a lot about this. and I've spent some time over the last two days. It's not going to happen, but here's what I want. I want holding penalties on DBs,

passing off the penalties on DBs, illegal hands of the face on either side of the ball, holding on the offensive line to be 50% more flagrant. I want them over the year to be more lax on all of those calls. I don't think it would change how I don't think of a change any of the safety measures. It's going to change some of the scores a little bit.

But at the same time, right now, we watch games, and we watch games all year, and you're like, it's not a hold. Barely touch his face mask because he's coming off and jamming and pressing. Like, oh, my God, you're going to call that PI? There's debates on all these penalties.

Like, isn't it? And I don't think there wasn't a Super Bowl call. But I don't even want that call called there. Like, that's tight coverage. You gave them a little jersey pole. I mean, but I think that all the calls throughout the last few years. 50% more flagrant goes against, you know, what they want from a safety standpoint, number one,

especially with... Let's not call it flagrant. Let's call it 50% more exaggerated. Not flagrant. Just, like, I think there has to be intent, more intent. Don't you remember what we really wanted? Don't you remember what we really wanted out of this? Yeah, I do.

I know what I really wanted. I do. and it should have been third and three at the end of a third and eight. Well, no. On defensive holding or DPI, we wanted a 10-yard penalty, no automatic.

Oh, no, you're right. Defensive hold illegal contact, five yards, but not automatic. That's right. With pass interference being 10 and automatic. Right, defensive hold of legal contact five yards. College rule.

College rule is 15. No, college rule. on defensive holding is 10. No, no, no. Defense of all, DPI. Yes, it's 15. But automatic first down, as is the others. See, here's the thing.

I, you know, I mean, I know you know, but for everybody else, the argument against turning it into just a five-yard penalty, not automatic first down, is that DBs, when they get beat, are going to just go and grab and hold, and you're going to miss out on a lot of big plays and scoring plays because they're going to take the five-yard penalty, and they're going to say, let's do this again, because I was about to get beat badly for a touchdown.

I hate when it's third and super long. You know, it's third and 19, and we get an illegal contact on the other side of the field on a quarterback that got sacked in a second and a half, and all of a sudden it's an automatic first down. So I almost think, like, You know, it's just a five-yard penalty. I don't know.

I don't want to get into it. Here's my, because there's a lot of different ways to skin that cat. I wanted to just tell you, though, what I thought. Yeah. I thought it was a hold. My big problem with this, and you were a player, is that players and coaches always say, I don't care about how you call a game.

I just want you to be consistent. I want to know what I can do and what I can't do, what I can get away with and what I can't get away with. And that means you have to be consistent in the way you make these calls from the beginning of the game until the end of the game. And for three quarters and four-fifths of the fourth quarter, they let D.Bs get away with a lot of contact and a lot of holding. And then they called it at the end.

That's the part I didn't like. because Bradbury clearly held Schuster on one of the third and eights early in the game when Kansas City was forced to punt. Like that was much worse than what we saw there at the end. Just be consistent. If you're going to call it tightly, call it tightly throughout. If you're going to let them play, let them play throughout. And I think that that's where they blew it.

I would agree with that. I think at the same time, you saw the jersey extend. And even if the, I don't know, it's like, like when Kirk Cousins throws a check down to Chris Thompson with 40 seconds left in no time out. You're like, that just ended the game, bro. He's like, a process of what he was doing, he's so in tune to the process of what he's doing,

he forgot the situation. Well, that was boring, Randy, it was 3rd and 37, or whatever. But go ahead. But the point is you have to throw the ball down the field there. Yeah. Like he did in the playoff game. The point is he lost control of the situation of the game. It might not have changed the outcome by any means, but you're like,

do you know where you are? And that's maybe you see the back that she's that jersey pulled, and he's like holding. Oh, we've been letting them play. But the flag's out, and it is holding. Yeah, but that's not the way. the refs are coach. The refs are coach to call it, or, you know, if it's there. They're not supposed to call it based on the situation of the game. They definitely have that conversation of, hey,

let's let, we're going to let a little bit more go. But you're right. The situation of the game should not change it. But what I'm saying is, had they had the conversation of we're going to let more play, we're going to let more go, there's a chance. He just saw holding him through a flag and then, I don't mean the situation of the game. I mean the situation of what we talked about the game plan was all week. If he didn't get hold, would it have been a touchdown? I think so, yes. See, I'm not...

Not that far out. Here's the other judgment call. Do you think Patrick Mahomes is just straight overthrowing him in that situation? I don't think so. Probably not because he... No, you're probably correct because he immediately started saying, Give us the call here. Give us the call.

I think it's complete. But that said, he could have, like, he just didn't need to pull. I actually think he gets away with it if he doesn't hook him after he pulls the jersey. Because then he hooks his waist as he turns up filled on the out-knock. I thought the original grab was the one that really was, look, we watched football. That's a hold. The other one was, there wasn't a grab and yank. He hooked his waist.

That's just, that's almost worse. By the way, I don't know if they would, I don't know if I agree with you. It would have been a touchdown. I don't think it would have been a touchdown. Maybe Mahomes overthrew him that drastically on purpose. No, it's amazing how much time's made up in those, like that's an out and up, right? Like, it's a little out and up. Yeah.

It's amazing how much time that kind of athlete will make up in those, that out and then the up cut that you just don't see. Right. It's not like he overthrew him running straight. He hooked, he pulled and hooked, and it's amazing to what that will do to that type of route. That said, how about that call right there? It's not like you're making a call. Andy Reid's not calling to try to get a holding. But he's like, hey, they know we're trying to get a first down here.

Let's give them, let's show him something, and give them a double move. Great call. I mean. Great call. I kept thinking about it. I kept thinking about you, and I know you missed the first Kansas City touchdown drive, but it's like Kelsey for a chunk play, Kelsey for a touchdown. And I'm like, oh, my God, he's just always open.

It's unbelievable. The whole defense for two weeks is like, how do we stop 87? And there he is, wide open on the first drive for two total catches for 40 yards or whatever it was. I don't know. but I if it wasn't a touchdown and it wasn't, oh, here's the, this is the other part of this play. I had my guy, Mr. X, send me a direct message after the game, and he said, don't you, if you're Nick Siriani and Gannon,

who's now the head coach in Arizona, don't you have to understand that you have to tell your defense, defense, it's better if we give up a touchdown than giving up a defensive penalty that results in an automatic first down. We can't do that. So right now, the situation is this. You are not doing anything that resembles anything that could get called. There's no contact. We'd rather give up a touchdown on this throw. And if the ball's completed eight yards down the field, let them score. Now, I would make the case that it's third and eight. What you're focused on primarily is a stop, a stop, a timeout, and a forced field goal.

But do you think that Philadelphia, and maybe they did this, but do you think it's one of those situations where you know a penalty automatic first down ends the game? It's over at that point. A first down of eight yards or nine yards without scoring ends the game. How much would you coach that defensively before that play? They had a time out to communicate whatever they wanted to communicate. I don't think that got communicated. But it is a really good point.

And you say we've got to keep them from getting the first down first. Yeah. So if you get any kind of double, if anything, we're jumping everything. We're jumping everything on sticks. If you guess wrong, do not hold them. Don't grab. We're going to try to get a pick here. We're going to try to get something to stop them.

I mean, if they give you some double move or something and you're out of position, they're going to score. And we're going to take the ball on offense on the other side, and we're going to go down to score. But we cannot, the clocks are going to kill us more than them. It is a great point. It is a really great point that I don't think was communicated. Like, hey, touchdown is better than a holding call.

Yeah, you almost play the sticks like it's the goal line Yeah, play the sticks like it's the goal line Anything play the sticks like it's the back end of the goal line Like yeah, right But I mean you can't because you gotta keep up getting in But like Yeah, no, do not hold The other thing too

But again, it's like such weird Blitz the shit out of them Yeah, like Send everybody Just bring it. So he gets rid of it quickly, throws it deep, and it's either a touchdown, or it is an incomplete pass, or we got the sack that we wanted. That's actually probably just zero blitz, and he's thrown it in the end zone.

But then, like, that's funny that you can say that, but, like, Travis Kelsey is going to somehow release and get off at eight and a half yards, and he's going to get up out of the first out. Yeah, but on that third and eight, they're not thinking the Chiefs more likely than not. They're not thinking about first down ends the game. They're thinking about getting the first down or maybe scoring a touchdown. I mean, they ran a play to score a touchdown. They don't know first down ends the game.

Okay, but they ran a play to score a touchdown on. Here's the point. I don't think they're thinking don't score. I don't think Kansas City after the first down communicated do not score. Of course. Then it was obvious. But I don't think they communicated. I don't think they would have communicated that. On the third name. In the third down situation. I agree.

Get the first down. And they would have, like, if you threw it, anything past eight yards, let them score. If they catch it past eight, let them walk in. Right. And on the flip side. And they would have. And on the flip side, Kansas City, you're communicating, if you get the eight yards, go down, don't score. I think we're on the same page. I don't think that Kansas City was thinking get down after a first down on the third down play. No.

They knew it after the penalty because they could do the math that, you know, there were only a couple of timeouts left. And there was only one timeout left and they could run it down to, you know, eight seconds before kicking the field goal. I wonder if they were totally caught. I don't want to put a pass, Andy. I don't want to put it past them that they didn't. they get down at nine yards. I don't think they did. Don't score. Don't score.

I don't think they did. Well, he ran a play that literally was going to try to, they were trying to score on. I mean, the Schuster play, the in-and-out and the... He throws it into the end-zone. Yeah. So... Yeah, they were trying to score.

Right. I was surprised, really, a little surprised to some extent, that Mahomes tried to buy time and took the knee. the way Bucker had already missed one. But we trust his guys. For me in that situation, I have this weird feeling hard to kickery. Like, out of just Selma Holmes forward for a yard, and then on the third goal from the one,

with what would have been left a minute? Something like that, I just said, if we can score here, just go ahead and score. No, you mean if he had taken the knees and you had legitimately had like a third and goal at the two with, yeah, yes, good point. By the way, here's another thing I was just thinking of. Philadelphia obviously let McKinnon go and hoped that he wouldn't go down at the one-yard line. What Philadelphia should have done is made more of an effort to stay close to him and then...

And then pull him in. Right. They should have pulled him in. No, that's... But the ball got down. of the two-yard line, and Philadelphia took their last time out. So then the second and one was Mahomes trying to burn some clock. I mean, they were doing the math where they wanted the field goal to be as close to walk off as possible. Right. And, you know, and it nearly was. I mean,

when it went through, there were eight seconds left. What was there when they got one play? Philadelphia got one play. Yeah, they got the one play after the squid kickoff. Yeah, so had they scored on the third one, what would there have been? Forty, fifty, two. Oh, no, no, no, no. If they had scored on the third and one, the third and my proposition had you gotten to a third and goal from the one, not taking the knee, just fell forward, Mahomes fell forward. And then you have a third and goal from the one. It would have been somewhere around. McKinnon, McKinnon got the run down to the two-yard line, and that play ended with, but it wasn't a first down. even though the snap took place at the 11-yard line, it wasn't a first down. They actually could have gotten a first down.

What was the clock started at on the third and one, or the third and goal? The third and six, 54 seconds left. So that would have still been 54 if you were on the one-yard line. Yeah, I would have taken, they would have 51 seconds. Yeah, I would have not scored the touchdown. I would have done what they did. No, I don't think very much.

And that's everyone's feeling. I just, it's hard for me to do. If Butker misses. Throw it to the kicker. Yeah, I mean, we're just in. He's not wrong if Butker misses. He knew what he was doing. He trusted his players.

He did a great job managing the clock. He's not wrong. It's just the interesting debate of, I wonder if I just punch it in here. What about the field conditions? The field conditions were just horrible. So, but we already had. They were trying out a new, like a new irrigation system with something. I don't know what they were doing. It was really, it was actually...

I heard that's something I read, that they were trying out a new watering system. It's like for the Super Bowl, huh? There's no excuse for it. That feels usually in great shape. I've been on that field a bunch of times. It hasn't been, though, apparently this year. But Jake Elliott on one of his kickoffs slipped. So it's possible, you know, Buckford already missed one field goal.

What if he had slipped going down the game goes to overtime at 35, 35? Of course, everybody would have said, you know, ball don't lie on the, on the Schuster Bradbury play. By the way, did you see what Bradbury tweeted out? Yeah, I did. For those that didn't see it,

Juju Smith Schuster tweeted a happy Valentine's Day everybody. And he's got a Valentine's Day-like card. And he writes, I'll hold you when it matters most.

And it's two, in the two and from. The two is a picture of James Bradbury in his equals. I mean, that is... It's funny. It's kind of funny, but it's also really low rent. It's, like, you don't do that a few days after the Super Bowl when you got the benefit of what was a very controversial call.

So, A.J. Brown, AJ Brown barked back on behalf of Bradbury. And he tweeted to Smith Schuster, first off, congratulations. You all deserve it. This is lame. You was on the way out of the league before Mahomes resurrected your career

on your one-year deal TikTok boy. He admitted that he grabbed you, but don't act like you're like that or ever was. But congratulations again. I would have loved the tweet had he not said on your way out of the league. He had to throw that in. He wasn't going out of the league. What's the TikTok boy reference? And also, he must do a lot of TikToking.

Must have spent a lot of time on TikTok. Yep. I didn't know if there was like some famous TikTok video. No, I did. Like, AJ Brown didn't need to throw in the couple jabs that were just like not really true. I mean, just trying to gut punch him once. But it's not like that. It's not like you were like that or ever was or whatever that. Like, that's true.

He was never that dude that just is hard to cover. Not a bad player, though. Yeah. I think it's all fine. Like, that's just a world we're in. Because these guys go back and forth and do this stuff. It's like 15 years. years ago, that would have been insane.

You don't do that. I don't think you do it now. I mean, it's funny. I mean, it's creative. I don't do it. It's creative. It's just, it's, it's, it's really rubbing salt in the wound. I mean, come on. That's low, low rent, low class.

It was Valentine's Day. I know it's a Valentine's Day. I'll hold you. Like, he's got the best tweet ever, and you can't wait another year for that. You know what's so incredible, and I said this yesterday, or maybe it was on Monday, with Tommy. The Eagles were so classy in defeat. I mean, including Bradbury. I agree. I mean, Bradbury admitted, you know, that he held him. Nick Syrian, not one eagle, not one eagle that I know of whined about that call and said that that call cost them. They totally took the high road.

You know, Hertz did, Siriani did, Bradbury did. And so, I don't know, there should have been some from Smith Schuster, like, you know, they're not whining like the Saints did that year. And the Saints have had every reason to feel like they got completely hosed in that NFC championship game against the Rams. But my God, I mean, you had, you know, the New Orleans politicians and lawyers in town and the whole team, including Sean Payton, threatening to sue the league. Like, it was so outrageous the way they behaved after that call. And it was a terrible miscall.

Not the Eagles. I mean, this was not nearly the egregious miss that NFC title game was. So, I don't know, whatever. It's kind of funny, but at the same time, it's really salt in the wound and totally unnecessary. I'd go for it, man. You'd go for it. You wouldn't have gone for that. That wouldn't have been you.

Oh, I wanted to ask you about the call that we were talking about. did you make, was there a conscious effort by you or by coaches to identify referee crew, how they call games going in, and then how the game is getting called early, and then adjusting accordingly? I don't want to speak for coaches in what they said or different staffs, but no. I don't think I knew one referee crew member's name. Well, that's stupid. You're right. I mean, I think a lot of teams absolutely understand who's reffing their game and what it's going to mean.

I think that's smart. I would do that as a coach. So what were you saying right there when I went to? I didn't. I think it would be smart to identify all of those factors. You did not. I think, like I got to guess it was talked about. I got to believe that it was.

Didn't rest? I just never. I didn't care. Didn't referees say, I'm not allowing that today, Chris, or players. We're not doing that today. So know that right now, that's getting called. Did they, did referees communicate that way? That I was literally the cleanest player ever.

I had, I think, I'm pretty sure on this. I had no offensive holding penalties in my career. I had a couple on special teams. know if I had an offensive holding. If I did, it's one, and I know it's not more than two in my entire career. Really? Went aside the... Yeah.

Yes. Is that... I let go. Is that available anywhere? Yes. You can find it somewhere on penalties. You can find penalties of someone's career. But I'm telling you, it's, I did not have very many, I did not have very many, it was never a concern.

I had a couple OPI's, and they, were. I never had a personal foul. Well, the holding thing, I'll never forget this. It went back to my rookie year, and it was on special teams where it came from. He's Danny Smith. Like, hey, the guy behind you at the ball has the ball because he's a special player. If you hold, it's going back no matter what he does from the spot you help. No matter what he does. If you let the guy go, That special guy with the ball behind you might just make him miss. I just kind of always thought about it that way.

Like once it happened to be holding, I just let go. Just so you know. I was pretty good in position, but... In 2012, you had an illegal block above the waist. Was that a special team's penalty? Against Carolina in week nine in the third quarter. It had to be, because I didn't even play in 2012. Well, you were, so it had to be a special teams play that you run the football.

field for, right? A legal block below the waist? A legal block above the waist, it says. Oh, I'll bet you that was an offensive penalty. I'll bet you somebody, I don't know how they called, I don't remember that. A little block above the waist. Isn't that how you block? I don't know. That's what it says. It says. That's like the high low, I think that might be the high low call.

Like the high low penalty call where they, the line, one of your guys goes, chop block and you're blocking the guy above the waist. You also had an illegal block above the waist against Houston in 2010, and that was week two. You had an illegal motion in that game, in the opener against the Cowboys. You had an illegal bat of the ball against Chicago, and you had an OPI that year against Detroit. I'm just telling you, I didn't have a lot.

I mean, I'm just telling you, I didn't have very many penalties. Those are the only two seasons I have of your penalties. 2010 and 2012. There are more. There are more. I had some false starts and stuff. I had an OPI. I had an OPI that I feel like got Patrick Ramsey benched in his first start at home.

He threw a touchdown, and it was OPI. He threw a touchdown to me, and I got called OPI. Then we stalled on the drive, and then he got a concussion, and Brunel went in, and Brunel never came out. or he got hurt or something. That was the first game of 2005 you're talking about against Chicago. Yeah. Yeah, the OPI on the opening drive, which in the end on a play where I scored. That was the game.

Whatever. That was the game that you didn't, I mean, we didn't score touchdown until the fourth quarter of the Dallas game the next week, the Monday Night Miracle game, because it was a 9-7 win over the Bears, three field goals. that game. That was my fault of the OPI. Well, there you go. Well, I know I had, I know I've looked this up, I think there are a couple

holding calls in there in my career, but I'm pretty sure they're special teams. You just looked it up? Did you just find something that had all the penalties? No, no, no. I've done this before. Okay. Whatever. All right. I don't care. Anything else? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, one other thing from the Super Bowl.

and I think this is crazy and I think this is so tough for young coaches. The Cardinals hire defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon from the Eagles. The Colts hire

the offensive coordinator from the Eagles. Shane Steichen, yeah. God, it's hard to replace an O.C. in D.C. in one year as a young coach.

It's got to be brutal. Sean did it for five years in a row and I think that's a big part of what he's struggling with coaching. He's like, I don't want to go through a hiring process

every single year of a thousand people calling me. Well, you know, maybe Washington's going to interview Eric Bienemy tomorrow. Okay, they've got the parade in Kansas City today. Greg Roman was interviewed yesterday. I want to get to this subject after the break, but you just gave me the thought of,

well, why isn't Eric B. Enemy going to interview in Philadelphia? The Eric B. Enemy thing is just interesting overall. Let's get to the Washington OC search, which should be, I think, finalized by the end of the week. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. MyBooky still has that deposit bonus opportunity that allows you to cash in and cash out quickly if you use my promo code. Use my promo code Kevin D.C.

After you sign up, deposit whatever you want to deposit. You only have to wager that deposit amount one time, and then you're eligible to cash out quickly. If you want a sports book that gives you the most for your money, bet with MyBooky where you can bet anything, anytime, anywhere. Again, mybooky.orgie.ag, my promo code, Kevin D.C. Cooley, I mentioned this the other day. The Chiefs are the favorite to win the Super Bowl at my booking next year.

But in the NFC, so the Chiefs of the favorite, Buffalo is the second favorite. And then in order in the NFC, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Dallas, and then Detroit. Detroit is the fourth pick to win the NFC championship game. And I've seen that in a couple of spots now. Detroit is going to be the team all off season. People are talking about the season golf had, Campbell is the coach, some of the talent that they have. By the way, I think Amonrae St. Brown is legitimately a star-wide receiver.

The Lions behind the Niners, Eagles, and Cowboys in the NFC to win the NFC championship next year at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. What do you think about the Lions being that high up? on the list, on the odds. I just don't know if I believe in goff. Campbell's amazing. I love the staff.

I love the way they play. He's goth that dude. I guess you did it with the Rams. I mean, they, you know, they've drafted the offensive lineman. They've got Amonra St. Brown. They've got Chark. They've got the young defensive players.

I mean, Aidan Hutchinson was outstanding as a rookie. They seem to love Campbell. They do seem to love Campbell. for some reason. And they played great, and they almost made the playoffs. I mean, if Seattle didn't win on that final Sunday, they would have been the team playing at San Francisco. They would have given San Francisco a better game than Seattle did,

even though Seattle was actually in the lead in that game at halftime, but lost, you know, big. All right, so the news of the day is, according to Ian Rappaport, Eric Bianami will be in tomorrow to interview for Washington's vacant OC job. Greg Roman, the team announced, and I think Kime had it first, interviewed yesterday. Before we get to, and you've already talked extensively about Roman, and I'll have you kind of repeat what you said about Roman a few weeks ago. But why do we think that Eric Bienamee, who has interviewed for five years, running, it seems like. For every head coach opening, hasn't gotten a job yet outside of working for

Andy Reid. Do you think it has to do with legal issues from the 90s? What are the legal issues from the 90s? He's had a few things. I was just, I was just, I knew we were going to talk about this and I looked it up. In 1988, he was arrested for a bar fight. No. In 1989, ticket is this thing. He was banned for the Colorado Boulder campus for one year after allegedly harassing a female parking attendant. That would have been back in the 90s, like early 90s.

Yeah, right. That's 20 years ago. Yeah, the answer, no. 30 years ago. 30 years ago. The man's 50-something years old now. No, I don't think that that's it. No chance. I mean, why... There's a few things. It's on his Wikipedia page, which sucks for him.

They put that on his Wikipedia. No, I'm looking at it right now. I don't know. I mean, here's a crazy thing about it. In April of 21, he actually was arrested for DUI. That's the most recent thing. Of 21, of 2001. Oh, my fault. 2000, but that's still the most recent thing on here, which is 20 years ago, 22 years ago. I don't, he doesn't interview well. I'm going to, like, I promise you that.

Because he would have gotten one of these jobs. No doubt. I don't know. Is Andy helping him interview? Because if Andy's going to let him go interview for the OC position in Washington, they're saying to, other, you're not getting a job and you're not going to get a job while you're working under me. Not because Andy's trying to hold him back, but just because of the optics of it's still Andy. You might have to take this Washington job for a year and go prove yourself somewhere else. Yes. I think the fact that he hasn't been the primary designer and play caller and really hasn't done it much of either, even though everybody who's trying to give him credit for a lot of the things that happened Sunday, I think that's part of it. But that's not it. Now, does he need to get

away from Andy Reed, under the shadow, get out from under the shadow of Andy Reed and prove that he can do something without Andy Reed? He does. But that's not why he's not getting a job. He's now Nobody else does that. D'emico Ryan's just got a job. I know, he's got a six-year deal. He's under the shadow of Kyle Shanahan. Yeah, but all the shadow is an offensive coach. But if you work for a great staff,

your desire as a head coach. I know, but D'emico Ryan's is a defensive coach. Kyle Shanahan's an offensive coach. I mean, Eric B. Enemy is working for an offensive head coach, but it doesn't matter. You know, Doug Peterson, Matt Nagy, What I'm saying is normally when you work, normally, give me those around this is a random example.

Go down the list of people like Zach Taylor, Matt LaFleur, all these guys that have worked for great staff. So the gut list, fuck the list forever. You're desired if you work for a great staff that wins. Right. Why is he not desired? Well, because I think you know.

You just must be the worst interview ever. I mean, the stories that have been out there is he doesn't interview well. He's very difficult on players, not a players coach. all of those things. You know, and then, you know, others are trying to use the fact that, you know, he's under Andy Reid. But so was Matt Nagy. So was Doug Peterson. I mean, you know, they got head coaching jobs.

Here's the thing. And I want to point this out, too. One more thing. Yes. I do know that him and John Embry went to the University of Colorado. John Embry took the head coaching job, left Washington, coaching me. Right. So they took over.

Yep. And they basically ran that, ran the players into the ground. I'm not saying they ran the program, but they went there and they were like, we're going to find out who works. We're going to, I think they had like over 50% of their team quit. The Colorado teams that he was the OC for in 2011 and 2012 were not good teams. They were terrible teams. Well, they had no players.

Yeah. I've talked to Embry, and the goal was, we're going to find out, we're going to find out who wants to be here, we're going to get guys that want to play for us. And that experiment ended too fast for them to have any opportunity. So it's hard to be a great offense about players. Embry is a friend of yours. They were hard on their guys. They were really hard on the guy. I would love to get Embry on the show.

By the way, I'm going to talk to you about that afterwards. He's such a good coach. You loved him. I remember that you loved him. I would love to get him. I still think the world of that guy. I would love to get him on the show to talk about Eric Bienemy. I wonder what he thinks.

Because the two years that he was at Colorado as the head coach, Bianami was his offensive coordinator. And they were terrible. Terrible. Well, I just told you they got over the hat. I know that, but was it Bianami's fault? Was it Bianami's fault? I think that they, like, the enemy was the O-C, but they did go into it.

They were working together in a lot of ways. They're friends. They're really good friends. Yeah. No, it's nobody's, I mean, it's not their fault. The goal was to harden Colorado's team and find out who wants to play for them. And it was hard, and people don't like hard work a lot times. I just, you know, the elephant in the room when you're having a conversation about Eric Bianamy not getting a job.

And then on the day after the two white, you know, Eagles coordinators got head jobs is that, you know, he's not getting hired because he's black. But the jobs that he's interviewed for in the past people, you know, whether it was the Texans or the dolphins or the jets, I mean, they hired black head coaches. Brian Flores was hired Cully was hired Robert Salah who's a minority head coach was hired I mean I think he's a minority head coach

Is any Middle Eastern Egyptian or something like that Yeah I think so Should know better But there's If the enemy was impressive

in an interview and he's coming from the Andy Reid thing He would have gotten a job by now I mean I think we can all from our own world and life experiences, professional experiences, know that I don't think this one is anything other than he's not interviewing well and there are concerns about what kind of head coach he would be.

So now he's relegated to looking at an O.C. position. Here's going to be a big problem for Eric B. Enemy. And I mentioned this, I think, yesterday, or maybe with Tommy. what if Washington doesn't offer him the job Andy Reid has Matt Nagy on that staff I think he wants to elevate him to OC back to where he was before he left and then Bianity became the O.C.

What if Washington doesn't offer Bianami a job and no one else does? Does Andy Reed take him back? And if he does, is he the offensive coordinator? His contract is up in Kansas City. They didn't give him a contract to extend beyond this year. Andy Reid's doing everything he can to help Eric B. Enemy get a job. Could you bring him back as the assistant head coach and only under that title?

Sure. And by the way, Andy Reid. I mean, everyone's going to read between the lines on that. He would have to bring him back, though. He couldn't say, no, you don't have a place here. after he's gone out publicly and really pushed BNAMI to be a head coach, first of all, and now just an offensive coordinator. I mean, by the way, I give Bianami a lot of credit on some level that he's not balking

at interviewing for O.C. jobs, you know, because he could, you know, he could say, wait a minute, why am I not getting an opportunity when everybody that worked here in my position has had an opportunity? So I do give him credit for that, and maybe he also recognizes he's got to get out from the Andy Reed shadow. I just think this B-enemy thing is one of the more interesting, you know, assistant coach stories, which there usually aren't a lot of, that we've had in years, because it just keeps going on and nobody hires him. And then he's now got a interview for

OC positions and there's no guarantee he's going to get that. Who would you hire? Bianamy or Greg Roman? It depends on what you want to do. I'd hire I don't know. I don't, I don't

without talking to them and knowing what I'd want to do, I don't think it's fair to say that. You know, he was also at Colorado with the scandal that went on we call the women the McCartney as a running back

he played for McCartney he coached running backs for four years in Colorado most of the charges were dropped in that what year was that like 92 93ish I forget he was at Colorado where football players were attending parties where women were sexually assaulted

they said that basically Colorado created a hospital environment for women. I mean, he played for a tough coach. He played for a tough coach in Bill McCartney. A guy was known for being one tough SOB, and he had Colorado at the highest levels Colorado's ever been at. You know, they were a powerhouse in the 80s and 90s. No, I understand.

I mean, there is some stuff to its past. It's 30 years ago, but there's, There's a list of some things. I think we move on from that at this point, knowing who he currently is, but maybe they're afraid of some of that stuff. I don't know, Cav. I don't know either.

I mean, the other things, let's say Washington does hire him, and there's the 18th offense in the league. And then that staff doesn't, they move on from Rivera. Then where are he? Well, I mean, I've already said that, you're, you know, if you're coming in here to interview for a job for, you know, an administrative assistant,

you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you because you don't know who's going to be left in a few months. You know, certainly by the, you don't know who's going to be left a year from now. You may not even know who's going to be left three months from now. I mean, it's still possible that everybody could get boomed in the end of March, at the end of March. So, but I think, here's the thing about a guy like Bienami.

so he doesn't interview well so he's too hard on his players let's just assume those are among those things so people are left with kind of a bad feeling when he walks out of the room and you feel much better about the other seven candidates you've interviewed

it doesn't mean that if he got the opportunity he won't succeed like you know the if imagine all he needs is responsibility and an elevated feeling of importance in an organization and all the sudden he rises to the occasion and becomes great. Here's the other thing, of course, coming here,

in addition to interviewing Ron Rivera about Ron Rivera's future here, you know, what do you have at quarterback? It ain't Patrick Mahomes. But then again, if you develop Sam Howell into a, like a legitimate NFL starting quarterback, and you said the offensive, finishes 18th, that would be an improvement. And let's say it finishes 16th, and it's a major improvement from where it's been. He'll get a lot of credit, and maybe he's, you know, this one step away from then being legitimately thought of as a potential head coach candidate. I don't understand why he's not legitimately thought of.

I mean, he is, but here's the thing. Well, there's something out there. He is legitimately thought of as an NFL head coachee candidate. He's been interviewed how many times? 10 times? Probably a dozen times. Maybe that's an exaggeration. I went back early this morning and I was looking...

It's not much of one. It's not much of an exaggeration. You found one interview spot after another in 19 and 20 in particular. Right. And the last couple of years as well. So it's him. It's him. I just don't...

I don't know what it is. Yeah. So... I don't either. Derek Carr got released. I just want to point out to everybody. By the way, Greg Roman to me, first of all, tell everybody in case they missed the show

after, you know, Scott Turner got fired, and Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew held that press conference about being a run-to-pass, physical downhill team, and tell everybody what you said about Greg Roman as a run-game designer and play caller. I think Greg Roman's as creative as. anybody's been in the past 20 years as a run game designer. And it's not just that.

It's his innovation with what they do formationally, with what they do personnel-wise, with different motions, putting tight ends in the backfield, receivers in the back field, different players playing at different spots, and essentially getting great looks to know you're going to continue to run the ball. I think it's really interesting with the Roman though, because that's what he's done, and that's what he's been hired to do, and he did that with Kaepernick in San Francisco.

it really had a necessity because that was Capsed Strong suit and he's played to his player's strong suit. I don't know if Roman wants to be known as like a run game court. Like, he interviewed Rivera and saying like

yeah, no, I do know how to run the ball coach. Yeah, I got them. No, we can throw it. No, no, I know that my run game stuff is good and we'll work on that. Like, I got that. But here, listen to what I can do in the past. No.

I don't know if he wants to be known as a run game coordinator. No one wants to be known as, wow, he can throw the ball really well. He's a coordinator that knows how to throw the ball. Can't run at once. Coordinators want to know the balance. I think Roman's really smart. And I've had a chance to talk to Roman of three or four times. I think he's really intelligent.

I think he's really creative. I think he loves his guys. I think he loves creating. But, I mean, he resigned in Baltimore. Yeah, I know. I think maybe he thought he would have a chance at a head of course. I don't think you want to be a head coach. Okay, well, then why do you resign in Baltimore?

Because he was going to get fired? Because he didn't have a good relationship with Lamar Jackson? Maybe not a great relationship with Lamar. Maybe he doesn't know if Lamar is going to be there. Maybe it's not a great relationship of Harbaugh. Maybe he thinks this isn't the style of football I want to continue to play. And you know Harbaugh, like, this is what we're doing. You're doing this.

That's the head coach's role. but something about it wasn't a fit. His rush offenses... I think Roman wants to do what he wants to do, and I don't know if he wants to be a head coach, but I think he wants to run an offense without interference in the way he wants to run an offense. And I don't think he's been allowed to do that at Baltimore.

His rush offenses have finished with the following rankings as an OC in San Francisco for four years, Buffalo two years and Baltimore in four years. Eighth with Alex Smith in 2011. And then fourth, third, fourth, first, first, first, first, third and second. We just saw two of the best rush offenses in the NFL make it to the NFC championship game. Rivera says, you know, it was the philosophy of the moment at the time during that press conference because, of course, all of his actions have said the opposite, including trading.

for Carson Wentz, trying to trade for Russell Wilson, trying to trade for Matt Stafford, drafting Jahan Dotson, signing Curtis, Samuel, et cetera, et cetera, is that this wasn't who he wanted to be, but let's just take him at his word, that now he actually wants to be a physical smash-mouth football team. If that's really what he wants with Brian Robinson, Jr. and Gibson and rookie quarterback contract, I mean, I would think about drafting Anthony Richardson. I think that's what sparked the conversation a couple of weeks ago. But anyway, I would hire Greg Roman. And I'd say, if we're going to do this, let's do this the right way.

And then I would trade one of the receivers. I wouldn't trade Dotson or McCorn, but I would trade Curtis Samuel. And... Yeah, but what are you going to get? I don't know. I don't know. But I certainly wouldn't be loaded up with the... And if you want to be a run game offense, if I was great, if I hired Greg, I'm Greg Roman,

and you hired me. Like, we're going to trade Curtis Samuel. Like, no, he's the one... He's in the back. that I could use in the back. True, true, true. He can, Greg Roman, people,

if you haven't been paying attention, you heard what Coley just said, everything backs it up. When he coaches your offense, you're going to end up with a top three rush offense in the NFL. If you could take right now a guarantee next year

that your offense was going to be a top three rush offense in the NFL to go with, The defense that you know is top 10. It finished 9th in DVOA last year. You're a playoff contender next year. Especially if you have a decent defense. What you do?

Which Washington does. Because if I'm a run game exclusive coordinator, I want to know that we're not going to be down 17 to 7 in the second quarter. I would say that, what would be more important knowing that they have a good defense is you just have to have a quarterback that just doesn't suck. You've got to improve it quarterback, whether that's Hal or drafting a Richardson and playing Lamar Jackson type of football with Richardson, maybe you can do that with Hal too. Because when he had Tyrod Taylor as an example in Buffalo, they had outstanding

outstanding dual threat rush offenses. But it was Tyrod Taylor. It wasn't, you know, Alex Smith, Kaepernick, or Jackson. Tyrod Taylor's okay, but I wouldn't have put, as a running quarterback, I wouldn't put him at the Kaepernick or Lamar Jackson level. And those teams went 8 and 8 and 7 and 7. And by the way, they were pretty good on defense, those Buffalo teams. those were

I think Rex Ryan was coaching them defensively. I think Rex Ryan was the D.C. and Greg Roman was the O.C. But they were good rush offenses. Who were the running backs on that team?

I don't know. Buffalo? LaShawn McCoy. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. So here's the crazy thing in watching Lashon. of these teams.

And the chief, the chiefs ended up running the ball more too this year, but that's not really them. I'm watching San Francisco and watching the Eagles. It's not that we're a rush, we're a rush offense. And that's not Kyle Shanahan. We have a system to run the ball, and we use a run to set up a lot of the past stuff, but it's also the run action pass to set up some of the other past stuff. they're all compliment teams.

They can throw the ball. Right. I don't want to get in a situation where we can't really throw the ball. I mean, Greg Roman's designed enough in Baltimore, and you've seen enough with Lamar where Lamar's made some points throw the ball. Tight end would be an important position for them if you have Greg Roman. A very important position. Like, that's the first pick of a draft or a big trade.

or a big off-season signing. Yeah, I don't want to just be a slob or not. I don't think that's enough. Might be enough to be a playoff team. I don't think that's enough. You have to be a compliment offense. Well, your quarterback also has to be a really good dynamic runner. The quarterback has to be a part of it.

When he had his greatest success and team success, Colin Kaepernick was running the shit out of the ball in 2012 and 2013, and Lamar Jackson is probably the greatest we've ever seen at the position as a runner. So I don't know if Sam, how is that? I can consolidate my feelings on this. Okay, consolidate that. If you give me an opportunity. Kyle Shanahan, Roman, some of these great coordinators with the runoff,

and go into a game with the plan, and they know we're going to do this, this, and this, to set this next this next amount of plays up. This is, we're doing this because it will create this. Versus what I think with Scott Taylor is, we're running plays that work, guys. Scott Turner.

We have to execute. Scott Turner. Yeah. And that was like the d'Zorn stuff. We just have to out-execute. We're running plays that work. It goes back to Al Saunders and Joe Gibbs, and both of them,

Joe, when he called the entire offense, used his power rud to set up the type of shot plays that he wanted, but Al didn't want to do it the way Joe did it. And so then Joe's calling 40 gut on first downer. We're calling 40 gut here. Now I was like, well, I'm in second and nine, and that doesn't fit where I want to be. You know what I mean?

There's a systematic approach to how you complement offense. It's not run, run, run, and then a light goes off like, oh, the past place set up, call it now. It's not how it works. So that's what I like about Roman. That's what I like about Kyle Shanahan. That's what I like about some of these great coordinators. McVeigh, when he's on top of his game,

is we're using this motion to create this book. We're getting into this formation because we know we're going to get him set in this defense, and we can take advantage of it. We'll set it up by getting here, here, and here. And a great coordinator has this feel as they come back out into the third quarter like, I got this DC on the other side. I know him now. I got him.

I got his game plan. He laid his cards on the table. But that's what the great coordinators do. They make the other team lay their cards now. And I don't think Turner, and a lot of guys didn't do that. I think Turner looking at it like, guys, these plays work. I know they work. Got out to execute them.

Like, yeah, I know, but there's ways to make them work better. Give me an example of the marrying of the run in the past. Just give me one example of you're going to run this because you know if you run this a few times, you're going to get this look, and then you can come back with this play a quarter from now or whenever. Okay, here's, let me try to do this. Okay. Let's say that out of 21 personnel that they show us a lot, they've showed a lot of quarters coverage. and we love quarters because the backside corner doesn't back up the far end of it.

And we are not sure how they're going to play us this week. So we're going to give them that formation, that personnel, that look, two or three of those, where we go with a power run play. We go with a toss play. And we see the way they're playing us on the back end of that defense to go, yeah, they are giving us the quarters that we want. want, or they're giving us the quarters that we want in first and ten situations, not second and seven.

Or, you know what I mean? Like, this is when they're giving me the look that I want. Right. Because defense has changed those things. Like, to Al's point, like, in second nine, they're going to play me soft again. Like, I can't go with some of the stuff I want to go with. Right. But on first, first and ten.

And in second six, right. Right. Right. So first and ten, you're going to run a pitch power sweep to the running back in 21 personnel, two backs, one tight end, and it's going to get five yards. So tell me when you, and you got the quarter's coverage you wanted. So now we fast forward to a first and ten, same field position two series later. I want to know I'm going to get the court.

I want to know if I have something I really love, I want to know I'm going to get that quarters look twice. I want to know a couple times in a row I'm going to get it. But here's the other thing. You know, the other thing is, like, you can have a check out of it, or a kill, or a can. And that's what Washington never did last year. Like, if we have this really good play drawn up against quarters, we've run it, we've got the quarters look. We've run the ball. We've shown a quick game past, like a five-yard out.

And they gave us that look, and we saw how they're going to play it back up. and then we get to the line on the third first and ten and you're like it's straight single high or it's cover two just check out of it like let's not throw the play out there because

and guess we don't have to do that like run the ball again get it back in the look you want to get into but yeah and that's the thing and a lot of times like to the out of thunder point he wanted to be in second six

and so he didn't care how we got to second six. Was that a given thing? Was that really the goal second and six? I'm just, I'm using that. I don't remember exactly. Like,

you'd have to ask him, right? I can think he was fine everywhere. But for example, like, I want to, well, first, everyone wants to be in second and six.

Or second five. That's what everyone wants. Second of five or, it's better, second of four is better than second and six. But, like, second six opens my entire playbook.

I know. Now my shifts and my motions, scare them. I put them in vines. But he also, Al also knew, like, everyone knows we're going to run it on first and then. Everyone knows we're going to run 40 guys. So I'm never going to get, yeah. I'm just, it's a way to compliment, but you've got to understand what they're doing

on the other side. And you're periodically setting up and understanding how they're playing, what adjustments they're making, and then where we go from those adjustments and where we make our adjustments. It is such a strategic game, and the good ones get it. And Greg Roman... Greg Roman would get it. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean... There's a roundabout way of... If Eric B. Anami doesn't interview well and Greg Roman just went first, I just think the rest of this week, actually, for this football team's going to be really interesting. Because I almost feel like Cooley in a weird way, there's pressure on Washington to hire Eric B. Enemy.

They've waited for him. They haven't hired anybody. you know, Baltimore did not wait on Eric Bienemy. Baltimore hired Todd Munkin, the offensive coordinator from Georgia yesterday. They were, you know, they had asked permission to interview with Bianami, but they decided not to wait. They got a guy that they really like, a guy that can, you know, definitely do it. And I kind of feel like Bienemy's last chance, and I know Arizona needs an offensive coordinator, and there are a couple of other spots in Philadelphia now needs an offensive coordinator.

No, he needs one. But I kind of feel like there's this pressure on Ron Rivera to hire Eric B. Enemy. And that if they don't, it's going to make Eric B. Enemy look bad. It shouldn't be anywhere near their thought process. Here's the thing. They cannot concern themselves with the optics of Eric B. Enemy. Of course not. They can't.

Here's the other interesting thing. First of all, if they hired Greg Roman and not Eric the enemy, and the offense isn't great this year, don't sit. You can't sit and say, like, you could have been the enemy. But if they don't hire Roman and then they just decide to stay in-house for O.C. and not the enemy, and they're not good on offense. It's, it could have hired the enemy. What is wrong with you guys?

Yeah. Well, it's going to be interesting this week. I think if they don't hire Roman and they don't hire Bianamy, I wonder if Romans asking price was too high given where they are right now with ownership. It shouldn't be. It's a coordinator. We're not talking about 60 million in guaranteed money. We're talking about he made $3.5 million last year as Baltimore's OC.

Yeah, they're probably, they're probably saying. I mean, the negotiation would be if I'm Roman, it's like, I might not work next year, but you're paying me. Like, you might get fired at the end of the year, but I want a three-year deal. That could be it too. Yeah, good point. I don't want, I don't, I want four million dollars a year, but I want, I want it for three. Yeah.

Right. And especially with what you're talking about with the enemy, like, If he did go to Washington, what I was talking about, if you went to Washington, it wasn't good. Then where'd he go? I want $12 million out of that if I'm B'Anemian. Yeah, but I don't think the team's going to be in position to offer multi-year contracts to coordinators. You may have just stumbled on to one of the biggest problems that they'll have with Roman for sure and maybe even Bianmi. although Bianimi, if he doesn't have any other options,

may have to just take a one-year deal in Washington. Washington has Ken Zampizi sitting in their buildings, so they can always come back to that. We're Pat Schumer, who's out of work. But you may have hit on why, if they don't hire either one of them, maybe it's not necessarily the money, but the guaranteed years. I mean, how bad does that look, though?

They interview Roman, if the enemies don't hire either of them. Rivera stands up and he goes, look, we liked both of them. We just couldn't figure out a deal to get done. Well, I mean, I think people will understand right now they're in flux because the team's being sold, we believe, and hope. I want to ask you real quickly to finish up the show about Derek Carr and where do you think he'll land. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. I did just want to mention before I asked you about Derek Carr,

Deshawn Harris Smith, Cooley, you don't know who he is. Deshawn Harris Smith is one of the best high school basketball players in the country. He plays for Paul the 6th in Northern Virginia. PVI is part of the WCAC, which, as I've talked about many times before, is the best high school basketball conference in the country. And PVI this year, Paul the 6th, is ranked number one in the country. They're number one in the country. By the way, the Sidwell Girls are ranked number two in the country, the Sidwell Friends Girls.

Last night, Deshaun Harris Smith, who is headed to Maryland next year. He's Maryland's biggest commit. The Terps have a top 15-ish recruiting class next year, and Deshawn Harris-Smith is their top recruit, going from Paul the 6th to Maryland next year. Last night, in a 32-minute high school basketball game, in which they won 101st. to 73. He had 41 points, eight rebounds, and four assists. I have no idea what the scoring record for PVI is. You know, 41 is a hell of a lot in a high school basketball game in a highly competitive league. You know, they're the number one team in the country. They're the number one

team in the area. They're in the best league. And Deshaun Harris-Smith is one of the best players in the country. By the way, he's not a five-star. He's a high-level four-star player, headed to Maryland. But I talked about this this morning, and I got a tweet from a Mrs. Harris, who I believe is related to Deshawn because her Twitter profile says, basketball mom. So I'm assuming that Erica Harris is Deshaun Harris-Smith's, as a relatives of some sort, maybe his mother,

and that she is right when she tweeted me and said, he played 25 minutes last night. So he got the 41 in 25 minutes in a high school game. Pretty impressive. Can't wait to see him. I've already heard great things about him and what he's going to bring to Maryland next year. By the way, the Wizards won last night too,

and all three of their players were held. and Kyle Kuzma was look good. When they're healthy, they're actually a pretty good team. All right. Derek Carr gets released. There was only one team, according to reports, interested in trading for him, but they wanted him to take a massive salary cut, and that was the Saints. By getting released, and it was a deadline for the Raiders because they were going to have to guarantee him $40 million. The Raiders get nothing in return, and Derek Carr gets to pick where he wants to go. Before I ask you about Derek Carr and where do you think he'll land, as a matter of comparison,

a year ago, Carson Wentz was going to get released. There was apparently only one team hovering around interested in trading for him. and when I killed the trade a year ago and made fun of Washington for getting absolutely taken to the cleaners on the deal, whether it turns out that Carson Wentz is a really good player or not a good player, it's because of the situation you just saw with Derek Carr. It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison because Carr's contract was worth more next year. but Washington gave up a second, a third, switched spots in the second round, giving India a more favorable position, and picked up his entire salary for last year. This is the way you do it.

New Orleans isn't going to overpay for Derek Carr when he's about to be released. Now, if they thought there's no chance of getting him unless we trade something for him, maybe they would have done that, but they weren't going to pick up his whole salary. Washington should have never had to give Indianapolis anymore than maybe a third round pick, and Indy eats half the $28 million of Carson Wentz's $28 million, $28 million, 2022 contract. That would have been, hey, we're kind of paying a little bit for a guy that's going to get released, but it guarantees that we get him rather than him probably not signing with us if he gets released. It was a terrible assessment of what the trade value was a year ago for Carson Wentz.

That's why I made fun of him at the time and said they got fleeced in the deal no matter what Carson Wentz does in Washington. You don't go back. You know, you can, like if he was with us for five. years and ended up becoming a Pro Bowl quarterback and he was a franchise quarterback and they won a bunch and say, oh, the price now looks super cheap, Sheehan, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, you can do that, but that's not what you're not paying on what you think he's going to be five years from now. You're paying based on what the market says he's worth right then and there. And they overpaid by a lot. Derek Carr, I think the Saints are the Jets. What do you think?

I don't think the Saints, the Saints can't pay for it. Because they're salary cap stuff. But they got a lot of players they can release. They got a lot of players to cut. I don't think the Saints. I don't know if the, I think Carolina. Okay. Frank, Frank Rack is a guy that wants consistency.

He wants a guy that's going to complete passes. Like, Donald's not bad. Not to say that we didn't like Donald a couple of. years ago, and he hasn't shown some signs of being an okay quarterback. But I think Reich would, especially have to losing luck, is like, just give me my quarterback. I can win. Give me somebody, a quarterback, and I can win.

So I think that Carolina would be really interesting, a good fit. I think the Jets, I think it's just so hard to pick Wilson where you took it. him and then go, yeah, it's been two years. He sucks. He's the worst. One year with a new staff, he's the worst. And I guess it's two years with that stuff. He's terrible.

Let's pay this other guy a boatload of money. And now we basically are saying Wilson's worthless. We can't even get anything out of Wilson. Like, it would be, I think it would be a good fit for him. I just don't know. I think Tampa Bay, if I was car, would be, really interesting. Right.

Because of the weapons that you're given, I think Tampa would be a really interesting option. I think Washington is a really interesting option. I think the problem of Washington is, for Carr, like, I don't want to go to Washington. No. I don't know what's going on. Right. Ron Rivera, and I don't know. Like, for me, Carr's biggest setback has been new coordinator, new coordinator, new

coach, new coach, new coordinator, new offense, new system, new scheme, no consistency. It's hard to win like that. And so I would look, if I was Carr, I would go to Carolina. They'll pay him. He's got Frank Rag. Rike's going to get at least three years in Carolina. Wright's a good coach. Like, I think that consistency for me would be really appealing. I think Carolina's got a decent roster.

I think the Jets have even a better roster. I think the Jets with much improved quarterback play, and Derek Carr would be a decent roster. an upgrade certainly over White and Zach Wilson at this point. The Jets would, I mean, look, they were five and two at one point this year. That defense with Soss Gardner and with Quinn and Williams, and they've got playmakers with Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore and Brees Hall, you know, Tours ACL and they lost him, but he was looking the part.

And they still got the, you know, one of the Carolina backs, Michael Carter. That team could be a playoff team with Derek Carr. Now, I also think Aaron Rogers, the Jets are a possibility. Vegas is a possibility for Rogers as well. The other team is a possibility for all these is, like, what is Miami going to do? Stick with Tua. I know that, but like, and not, this has nothing to do with Tua as a player. They're electric when he's playing well.

I know. He got three concussions in one season. Yep. And so if your car, it's like, but they can't, and Tua doesn't have a deal yet. Yeah, I mean, you're moving on from Tua if you bring in their car. But the problem is, is like, you can't pay Tua. Right. Like, I wouldn't, I'm not, I can't pay Tua.

Right. I can't. I cannot give to a deal. I can't do it. I can't trust that he's going to be there. So you could move on from Tua knowing, yeah, guys, he can give us another great year. it, but at some point we're going to have to make that decision to pay him, and I don't want to pay him. So what's just, here's car right now, let's go get a guy that we can trust, and then we'll be on the film.

The car's been hurt, too, a little bit. I mean, Miami's an interesting one for anyone. Like, if I'm Miami, I'm drafting a guy for sure. I'm just not a huge Derek Carr fan. I know you have always been that Jay's always. I'm not a huge fan. I'm just like, I think he's a good player. I don't think he's elite.

I don't think he's great. Like, I would have liked to see Carr have three years with a couple dudes and a coordinator. Right. Proved to me that he isn't, that he's maybe above average. Like, he's been at that above average. Yes. He's been in the late second tier for most of his career, like 15. Yeah, he's been, he's been in that 14 to 16 range.

Definitely 12, 13 to 16 range. I mean... I said this... Yeah. I said this a lot of the time. But Derek Carr's... He'll play a game, and it's like he's a B-plus-A player, and then he's a play a game, and he's a B-minus B player.

He never has that, like, B-game. His off-games is a bad game. And to your point, I mean, they've had so much... It's been tumultuous there with the Gruden stuff, and the coaching's, you know, in-and-out, and the coordinators, the whole thing. Yeah. So you got anything else? I got work to do, man.

This was a good show today. I enjoyed the football conversation with you. I love when you get into some of this stuff. And I have to tell you that Greg Roman to me, and it's only because I just don't know anything about what Eric Bionn of me is. I don't. I don't know anything. But I do know that Greg Roman would come in here,

and they'd be able to run the football next year. I mean, and you can say, well, they ran the football pretty big. well, pretty well last year at times. They did. But there'd be a lot more to it. And you got a young quarterback who's mobile and can be, you know, a versatile guy as a dual threat at times. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's interesting. I just don't know if they can pay him or give him whatever he wants. He might want too much. All right. Thank you. I'm glad your trip went well. I'll talk to you later. Good to talk to you. See you, Kevin. All right. That's it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.