The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley Said WHAT?!

Episode Date: August 7, 2019

Some Nats' conversation to start then Chris Cooley called in from the road as he's headed for Cleveland from Wyoming. He revealed something about Alex Smith that surprised Kevin to say the least. It led to a wager between the two of them. Cooley spent lots of time on the other quarterbacks as well and described a certain young offensive lineman who is having a great camp. They finished up with the Antonio Brown/frostbite story. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show is presented today by Stamps.com. More on them in a bit. Coolie's going to call in here very shortly and we'll do the majority of the show today with him. Real quickly, last night the Nats got a huge win in San Francisco. Suzuki 3 for 4, 3 RBIs, including a huge. huge home run in the third, and Trey Turner added to that as well. Good start from Annabelle Sanchez and the Nats are six-back of the Braves and a game ahead of the Phillies who lost in Arizona last night. This is going to be fun. Those of you that have listened to me over the years, I love postseason baseball. It is top five, six of all sporting times of the year. I love

October. I love the drama of playoff baseball. I have loved the four years that the nationals have been in the postseason going back to 2012 in that first series against St. Louis. And then the second series that they had in 2014 against San Francisco, then the Dodgers series, the Cubs series. That's high drama. And by the way, all four playoff, all four postseason appearances for the Nats included dramatic five-game series. You know, they've lost three-game five-game at home, Aaron, three of them at home, and then they lost a game four, a deciding game four in San Francisco in 2014, which, by the way, followed that epic, you know, 18 inning game at Nats Park in game two that year, which I sat through as the temperature dropped from about 65 degrees

to about 45 degrees late into that night. But postseason baseball is the best, and I've mentioned this before, the Nats have not once had a true pennant race that they've been involved in in August and September and it really appears as if that's what we're going to get right now. You know, there's six back. There's plenty of time. Six back is

nothing. Aaron, it may have been 2012 when the Cardinals came in and won that series against the Nats that they were eight back I think before at September 1st, August 31st, September 1st, time frame.

Labor Day time frame, they were eight back in that division and came back and won it. The Nats being six-back now are fine, but they're also very much obviously alive in the wild card race as well. And right now they have a one-game lead over the Phillies for the second wild card spot and a game and a half lead over the Cardinals for the third. There are a lot of teams bunched up in the National League in terms of wild card possibilities. the Nats, the Phillies, the Cardinals, Brewers, and you can't really count out the diamondbacks at this point. They're 500. The Giants are two games under 500, courtesy of the Nats,

beating them the last two nights. And then there are the New York Mets who are on fire, like they have now won 12 of 13 and have a phenomenal starting pitching rotation after adding Stroman to Sindegard and to Grom, etc. Now, their schedule during this huge win streak has included, you know, Miami and Pittsburgh as an example. And I think they won some games over San Diego and the White Sox I think they beat also during that stretch. And their schedule gets much more difficult.

They play the Nats this weekend. They play the Braves next week on the road. They've got the Indians. They've got a bunch with the Braves and the Phillies and the Nats. They still have the Dodgers and the Cubs. So it'll get more difficult. for the Mets. I had Tim Kirchen on the radio show today, and he thinks that the team that has the best chance in the postseason of beating the Dodgers is the Nationals with their starting

rotation, assuming Scher is back and healthy. But then he made the comment that the Mets in a best of five against the Dodgers, if the Mets were to get into a wild card game in advance, that Sindegarde, de Grom, Stroman, Mats, etc. would give the Mets maybe the second best shot in the National League against the Dodgers. But anyway, it's going to be a fun rest of the month and then a very compelling September. In both leagues, by the way, the American League has an incredible wild card race going on right now with really good teams vying for two wild card spots. I mean, Tampa Bay is 17 games over 500.

I think the Indians are 20 games over 500, and the A's are like 16 or 17 games over 500. The Red Sox now are fading. They are one in nine in their last 10, and more likely than not, they aren't going to make it to the postseason. The two wildcard teams in the American League are more likely than not going to come from Tampa, Cleveland, and Oakland. You know, if you assume Houston, New York, and Minnesota are your division winners. Cleveland's only three and a half back in the Central. And the National League, it's going to be a wild race for those two wildcar teams, but not with the same quality of teams involved. You know, the Phillies, look, the Nats are a quality team now.

Don't get me wrong, but the Phillies, Cardinals, Brewers, Mets, D-backs, not the same right now as Tampa and Cleveland and Oakland. But we're going to have wild races the rest of the way. And for the first time for the nationals, since 1933, that was the last. last pennant race that this city experienced. Now there was one in 1945, but the teams were depleted because of World War II, a little thing you may have heard of, so that you didn't have the teams in their right form because so many players were off fighting in the war. But really the last legitimate pennant race was 1933. The Nats won the American League pennant and then lost in the World Series. We haven't had one in this city since. Those four years that they went to the postseason,

they ran away with the division titles. And in the years that they didn't make the postseason over the last few, when they were a decent team, they really weren't in a legitimate pennant or even wildcard race. It's going to be fun the rest of the way. Meantime, tomorrow night, the Redskins open up their preseason. And Craig Hoffman from WJFK broke the news last night or reported last night that Jay is not going to play Colt McCoy in the game tomorrow night, and that the three quarterbacks more likely than not that will play tomorrow night are Case Keenham, Dwayne Haskins, and Woodrum, the fourth quarterback on the roster. We're going to have Cooley on here in a moment, but I'm going to make one point about tomorrow night that I actually

did not make on the radio show earlier that I will make tomorrow on the radio show is sort of the pregame, you know, radio show tomorrow before the game tomorrow night. I think that we will learn something about Jay Gruden's current quarterback depth chart, not the unofficial depth chart that he put together and put out there because he even told everybody, you know, it's a BS thing, he's got to do it. I have a feeling that the PR people may have actually put that thing together. But tomorrow night, if Case Keenham comes out and plays one series and then sits, He feels comfortable with Case Keenham.

I, by the way, want to see Dwayne Haskins play a lot tomorrow night. If Case Keenham, on the flip side of that, comes out and plays a full quarter or even into the second quarter, then what it tells you is that Colt McCoy right now is the leader in the clubhouse, and maybe a significant leader. And it wouldn't surprise me if that is actually the case. I'm just saying if you're looking for a tell, if you're looking for quasi-proof, If Keenham comes out and plays a lot tomorrow night, like a full quarter, then Colt McCoy is the guy. He's sitting tomorrow night because Jay's comfortable with Colt right now, and he needs to see more of case.

And then obviously he needs to see Dwayne Haskins too. But if you assume that this is a two-quarterback race, then we're talking Keenham and McCoy. If Keenham comes out like Alex Smith did last year in the second preseason game, not the first preseason game, if you recall, Alex Smith didn't even take a snap in the first preseason game. And Jay's history has been to play the starting quarterback very little and have him throw very little in the preseason. Alex Smith threw 14 times total last year in the preseason in two games. He played five total series in the preseason last year. And by the way, you know, they started off two and one, but maybe they were fortunate that they opened up with Arizona last year because Arizona was terrible. Remember, Jay has had a problem starting seasons since he has been the head coach here.

You had the first year of really not being ready in Houston, and then it was Miami in 2015. They only scored 10 points. Then it was the Steelers on a Monday night in 2016, and they were not prepared, and they weren't prepared in 2017 for Philadelphia at home. Last year, they seemed to be prepared in part because the opponent was so awful. the Cardinals were the opponent. Remember in week two, they did not look like a prepared outfit offensively. I'd like to see the quarterbacks and receivers get into rhythm with lots of attempted passes. I would like to see the potential starters in this preseason throw 30 plus times, if not more. The good teams, the teams that have won consistently, Brady, Russell Wilson,

Rogers, Brady in particular, look at some of his pass attempt games in the preseason. and tell me that the Redskins may be able to learn something from an actual championship team. I heard Doc this morning, Doc said for years, we've been talking about this preseason, and it's beyond him how little the starters play, and they're always concerned about people getting hurt. And he said, why? The people that you have healthy have been sub-500. He said that they give them scripts. They tell them what to expect.

And he said, Gibbs, a coach you may have heard of, never gave us any indication about how much we were going to play. Worked out pretty well for him. All right, quick word about stamps.com and then let's bring in Chris Cooley. Stamps.com is something that we are using here at the Kevin Sheehan Show. 700,000 small businesses are already using stamps.com. You need stamps.com. It's one of the most popular time-saving tools for small businesses. Stamps.com eliminates trips to the post office and saves you money with discounts you can't even get at the post office.

Stamps.com brings all of the amazing services of the post office right to your computer, whether you're a small office sending invoices and online sellers shipping out products or even a warehouse, sending thousands of packages a day. We don't do that here. We do send out invoices. We do send out mail. And we use Stamps.com because they handle it all with ease. simply use your computer to print official U.S. postage 24-7 for any letter, any package,

any class of mail, anywhere you want to send it. And then when your mail is ready, drop it with your mail carrier or put it in a mailbox. It's that simple. Here are the savings. Stamps.com. You get 5 cents off every first class stamp, up to 40% off of priority mail. My listeners right now get a special offer, a special offer right now that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long-term commitment.

Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in Kevin D.C. That's Stamps.com, K-E-V-I-N-D-C. All right, let's bring in Chris Cooley, who is on the road, heading back from Wyoming. He'll make a stop in Cleveland. So that is, by the way, what's the mileage, what's the estimated ETA time of arrival in Cleveland? leaving Wyoming. So you're leaving today. When will you get to Cleveland? Well, you know, since it's central time in Cleveland, like we talked about it, I got to kind of not just. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Just for people who don't know what you're talking about,

because why would they? Don't sell them out. Don't sell them out. I'm going to sell them out tomorrow on the air. Okay. He's got, don't you think he's got a good enough sense of humor to be okay with that? it's an honest mistake. It's an honest mistake, but more importantly, don't you think he's got a good enough sense of humor and isn't overly sensitive to that stuff where it won't bother him? There are people we know that I wouldn't do that to, but I would feel okay doing it with him.

Go ahead. Whoa! You don't think I should do it, do you? No, Clinton Porta said he was going to lose an hour going to Cleveland. I asked. So he didn't want to wake up. He didn't want to wake up to do your podcast. at 8.

I asked Clinton Portis actually to come on the radio show tomorrow at 9 a.m. And he said, I'm in Cleveland. That's 8 a.m. my time. And I said, nah, it's not. It's 9 a.m. Cleveland's Eastern Standard Time. He said, oh, okay. That's fine. That's an honest mistake.

Hey, Greg Huff, our producer, my current producer on the radio show, and our producer, both of our producer, the guy that produced our show, Kooley and Kevin, thought that it, it was, there were half hour standard times. Like, wait a minute, isn't Indianapolis, it would be 8 a.m. here. Isn't it 8.30 in Indianapolis? Remember when he said that? Yeah, I do. That's much worse.

That is actually, that is much worse, no doubt. Well, yeah, there was another day that we were having that conversation where you said it was paramount that when you text somebody, you tell them what time, their time, you would like them to do the show. Yes. And so you text me yesterday and said 1045. I know that, but I know. You botched that.

No. And you know what? Two years ago, I had an appearance in D.C. on my way back. I remember. And I forgot that there was actually a time change, and so I couldn't stop. I remember that. Everyone's done. I don't need to tell you what time I am on.

you know because i know you so well i know that you are not doing your podcast at 1245 but i did have to think about it because congratulations you have a radio show now and so i didn't know when you do your podcast anymore yes uh i have a radio show and i you're a radio star i wish as you know that i that radio show with you and you know you feel the same way and uh whatever like i i i said gregg and i both talked about it on the first show this week because people have asked me i mean overwhelming numbers of people have asked me what about coolly and i just said look you can ask me but i don't have the answers to it it's what i would have preferred and it's probably what he would have preferred, but it's not a within my control situation. So, um, there you go. Yeah, we have some

answers. We just don't have any control. Right. So, so I haven't even looked. I'm sure that a million people ask me. I haven't even looked at a lot. Oh yeah. No, seriously. I mean, I have had no less than a couple of hundred of Twitter notifications. So glad you're back on radio. Really excited. What about Cooley. Is he going to be a part of the show? Are we going to get Cooley and Kevin back? And I'm not responding on Twitter. I responded on the radio show the other day. I just don't want to turn it into a thing. That was my preference. That was your preference. It's not within our control. So in the interim, you'll occasionally make appearances on the podcast. There we are. All right. Whatever you want, buddy. I know. All right. So they open up the preseason

tomorrow night. Jay has said, the reports are that Colts not going to play tomorrow night, and that the three quarterbacks will be Keenham, Haskins, and this other guy, Woodrum. Right now, based on anything you've heard, and I know you have not been at camp, I mean, this is a first for you, you have not been to training camp for the first time in a while, what do you think the depth chart actually looks like? There was the unofficial depth chart put out the other day, which was Colt, Case, and Haskins. What do you think it is in Jay's mind right now? Colt. I don't know if it's Case or Haskins at two. I don't think you bury him at three, though, Haskins. I think that's tough. But I do think he's going to be three

if he's not ready to play. So Colt, Case, Askins, the other kid Woodrum's probably not going to play in the preseason. He might play. They don't, the best thing to do is to not play Colt, though. you know, Colts leaps and bounds ahead of these guys in terms of understanding the offense and timing and rhythm with the receivers. Do you need Colts play? What I think is interesting is Case from everything I've heard is not, well, I don't want to say that I've heard he's behind, but you don't hear glowing reports about how far ahead he is in his first year in an offense, if that makes sense. If he was so far ahead, at least of understanding.

standing the offense, everyone would say, wow, this guy gets it. Super smart. I don't hear that anywhere. And you don't hear that about Duane. So I'm going to say the Colts prior starter as a week one unless Duane really grows in the next month. You know, I haven't given you credit for this because I sort of forgot. I don't always remember what you say and when you say it, but usually I mean, when you say something really important, I remember, but you did say after the draft, even after the case Keenham trade back in February or March, whenever that trade was, you said, Colt's going to be the number one in camp.

You did say that, and a lot of people assumed it would be Keenham after the trade. The Keenham would be the number one guy in camp. And you said, as long as he's healthy and he's recovered from the broken leg, Colt's going to be so far ahead with the system that it's going to be really, really hard for anybody else to supplant him. I would debate you on whether or not Colts should play. I don't know why you would say, even if he's the clear-cut number one, why you wouldn't want him to play at all in the preseason?

Why? It has nothing to do with him, because you want your other two guys to get reps. Yeah, but you need Colt to get reps with the starters. Not really. You don't. I mean, he can get reps in two games, and he'd be fine. You really don't. Well, you just said you don't want him to play at all in the preseason.

I'm okay. No, no, no. I said I'm fine with him not playing tomorrow night. Oh, okay. I thought you said in the preseason. He's going to be your starter. He'll play a little bit. Sorry for the misunderstanding there.

You know that last year, Alex Smith through 14 total passes, played five total series in the preseason. And they did open up with Arizona, which was fortunate, before they laid an egg and put out a dud again. Indy, and that Jay's got a history here of starting very slowly after not really playing his offensive starters very much in preseason. Why wouldn't you take some of that day to look at it and say, you know what, maybe I need these guys to play a little bit more against somebody else other than our own guys? Last year, they played well at Arizona and a half. And Jay, remember,

Jay's offense was very creative. terrible too. Oh, they were awful. Don't get me wrong. So, yeah, I don't know. Maybe you'd have to peel back that data a little bit. Ah, where did that come from?

I came from you. The Kirk Cousin stuff? Yeah. You've been listening to the podcast. Good for you. I want it. I need it. That bothered me. You know that bothered me. Yeah, but on to, we can

talk about that. But on, I mean, onto the quarterbacks and Jay, you got to know what Duane is. You got to know what Duane is this season. You got to know what Duane is as soon as you possibly can. And if you play, you can play Case a little bit with the starters. I think you play Duane with the starters. If I'm Jay, I'm making a decision whether it's Colter Case right now as your starter if Duane's not ready. And if it's not case as the starter, Case isn't going to take the reps with the ones. It'd be Duane. Dwayne. Dwayne would start for me in this preseason game. I want to know what he is. You took him at 15. If Colbats are going to be good quarterback, they're ready to play. I agree with that.

With the way you just laid it out, if it's clear to Jay that Colt is going to be his starter in the opener at Philadelphia and Case has no chance to catch him, then I'm getting Dwayne Haskins all of the other first team reps in these preseason games rather than giving him to Case Keenham. In fact, if he starts, if I get more confident in Haskins as a backup, I mean, you have to have a backup with Colt McCoy, as we know, because he won't survive 16 games. He may not even survive five or six. But you and I've had this conversation before, and I've suggested it in the last couple of days to various people who have been on the show. it wouldn't shock me if Colt wins this easily in case is a disappointment if they try to move case. Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked at all.

I think the other thing you have to consider when you're looking at all of this, is there's still a chance that Alex Smith is ready to play 10 games into this season. No, there isn't. Yes, there is. It's not out. It's not out. I don't think it's out. It's not out.

I don't think there's... I mean, no, I don't mean it's reported out. I don't think the Redskins are throwing out that he might be ready. The guy can't, he still can't walk. He can't wait on his leg yet. Well, we'll do this whole thing. We'll do this whole thing. In December, you'll say, I guess I'll give you credit.

I can't believe he's ready to play. It's not out of the equation. So I wouldn't be surprised if, if Dwayne steps up and is okay, then you could trade case. I don't know what you get for them, but it depends on another team's need. You could also trade him three or four weeks into the season. I think that's another thought if something happened to someone in the season. Because if you're looking at Colt, say Colt's the guy that's injury from, and you're assuming that he's going to be hurt, you don't want to trade case if Colt gets hurt three weeks in

because then you have one quarterback on your roster and you're stuck in the spot last year. You've got just Duane. So it is hard to see. You know what I'm saying? Hold on here for a second. I'm still trying to wrap my head around you thinking that Alex Smith might play late this coming season. Every indication from everybody, and even listening to Alex, is that he just got the contraption thing, the fixator or whatever they call it, off his leg, what, two weeks ago or three weeks ago, he still can't put any sort of weight on his leg. at this point.

Whoops, that's my phone. He can't put any weight on that particular leg. He nearly lost the leg. Not that that would be an indication of rehab timing. But every indication is that his career is more likely than not over. And you think there's a chance, based on what you've heard and the people you've talked to, that he could be back and ready to play at the end of this coming season? Not anything about, I haven't talked to anybody.

What makes you think that? For one, I have talked to Seisman 30 months ago, and he could have played again. He said it took him a couple years, but... A couple years. The end of the beginning of the next year, he thought he could have played. Joe cut it. Or whatever it was. Medical technology is incredibly advanced, and Alex Smith has got a drive to play.

If he ever wants to play again, this is the time for him to get back on the field. Duane's waiting. It's just a hunch. It has nothing to do with talking to anybody. I just don't think that you throw it out. I'll give you... The Redskins have not once thrown out.

There's no chance he plays this season. Not one time. I'll give you two to one odds on a $100 bet that he doesn't play in 2019. Two to one. Two to one's awful. You're right. Okay, so negotiate it. What do you want?

Scamiest bookie of all the time. What do you want? I'll give me five to one. I'll give you four to one. I mean, I know what the actual true odds would be, but that doesn't mean that I'm willing to give them to you. I'll give you four to one on a $100 bet. I won $100, you win $400 if he plays.

What did you say? $500. Five to one. You can take it or leave it. No, I'll leave it. The true odds are like $20 to $1. I'm sorry? What are the real odds?

20 to 1? I mean, they might be longer than that. I'm not willing to give those odds, though. I'm not going to, you know, especially the way you said it so decisively. You've sort of backtracked a little bit, but initially you... No, I haven't backtracked. You tried to wrangle me in the game that I have heard. I'll give you five to one.

Take it or leave it right now. I just said five to one, take it or leave it. I know that, but then you went to it should be 20 to 1. I'll give you five to one, $100 bet. Yeah, okay. Okay, good. Aaron, please document that because he tends to forget a lot of these bets. Five to one, Alex, he's got Alex Smith playing in 2019.

I have him not playing. Ready to play. Ready to play. No, no, no, no, no. Playing. That means Duane would have to have had failed or Colt would have had to have failed. Actually, playing is a different odd. They might say he's ready to play when he's.

they really know he's not ready to play. You might go to Tony Wiley and say, Tony, I'll split 500 bucks with you if you put a release out there that says Alex Smith is near ready to play. He got to practice. He's got to practice to play. He can't just play. They can't just say it. All he's got to do is be ready to play.

He's got to put pads on for a game. How about that? He's on the roster. No, no, no. That could be a symbolic farewell thing, him putting pads on for a game. 5 to 1 Ready to play means legitimately, and we'll both know.

He's on the game day roster. He's on the game day roster. He's on the game day roster. He's practicing. Yeah, game day roster, fine. Game day roster. Right. The 46 or whatever it is. When they make the, you know, when they give you the, the, what's you call it list? Inactive. The inactive list. All right.

Okay. All right. What are you hearing about camps so far? Players that are playing well, players that are disappointed with? I mean, you may not even be that connected to what's going on because you've been out west. But are you hearing anything that would be of interest to our listeners? Well, you know I can still watch practice. What, the actual after practice? You're not watching it live? Yeah, the Al-22. I can watch practice. I'm an employee of the Redskirts. Have you been watching it?

not really okay so what was that why did we even even know that I'd heard I'd heard I'd heard uh Piercebocker looked really good better than West Martin so I watched that for a little bit

Piercebacher does look really good so I thought he looked good I think neither of those guys have a chance to start at left guard depending on you know what happens I love that my guy Donald Penn's there right now the Trent William thing was looming

VP is one of those guys that'll protect the quarterback he is he's just savvy vet who's good to protect them the quarterback. But I told you they should sign Donald Penn for a month. They did. So that was good. But really, it's the quarterbacks in Trent.

That's the deal. And in the quarterback situation, I think you really do. I know that I was not entirely positive about taking Dwayne where they took him, but I still like a, I still like him at the player. I think you've got to know when you take him there. And so that's the thing. I did have a thought, though. You'll like this.

Case is having a hard time with the offense, and Dwayne's, I don't know if either of them are having a hard time, but it's not going the way you would if they were saying they're super smart. You know, an offensive coordinator and a head coach could skew an offensive playbook to a certain player. Let's overcomplicate this, so only Colton really gets it. Yeah, that was, I mean. Let's throw everything into the mix on kids.

day one and say, come on, catch up. The problem with that is, by the way, I'm not discounting that as a possibility, but what it would say if it was actually being done is that this is the only way they can convince the owner that Dwayne isn't going to be ready to start week one. No, he doesn't know what they're calling and what they're doing, and you wouldn't see it in the preseason. It'll still be simplified in the preseason. Well, then what's the point? I mean, if it's, if it's just, Jess Jay's decision, why would he have to do that?

Well, I guess you'd have Duane saying I'm not 100% ready, because he's been pretty clear on his pickup of the offense and how he's grasping it, and all the flashcards they're using and all the little gimmicks they're learning, the rookies they're using to learn the offense. When you know it, you don't say I've got to use flashcards. So, you know, one of the things I talked about earlier, maybe you heard me talk about it on the podcast. I think I talked about it on the podcast, is just big picture.

The 2019 season, unless it becomes a miraculous, you know, Colt McCoy, healthy, they're six and three, they're in first place, they're having a great season somehow. Barring that, I want Dwayne Haskins to start half the games this year. I want him to start eight plus games this year, and if he doesn't, I think that will be telling given what this league has been about for highly drafted quarterbacks in recent years. If you're good, you play. If you're drafted in the first half of the first round, you play. The only guy that didn't was Mahomes.

And I think you could make the case that Mahomes would have been ready to start in that first year, given what we saw in year two. Do you agree with that? That barring a great season, like the context of Colt McCoy's having an unbelievable year, the defense is great, and we're six and three, we're in first place, that we need to see Dwayne Haskins for eight-plus games, or that's an indication that maybe they didn't get it right. No question.

Unless Colt McCoy is Steve Young, that would be his comp, right? The running, moving. Unless he's Steve Young, I want to see Dwayne Haskins. and I guess you could say, you know, Colt McCoy's playing in the top 10 in the league in terms of quarterbacks in your offense is top 10, top 15, which is tough because I don't know if you have the weapons even at the point to be that. It's time for Duane to play. You just got to know.

You can't, I think it's too hard now in the league to wait for a long time with you. these guys. And the other thing is, you've got to know in this year with Jay, if it's a mesh with Jay and if it's a mesh with O'Connell. He's your future. You win with quarterbacks in this league. And so it's figure out what this relationship is and what we can do with it as soon as we can. Does it frustrate you? I mean, one of the reasons I brought this up the other days, it's just been a little bit frustrating for me to hear from Redskins fans and even a lot of people in the media who say, wow, if they're patient, that's the smart thing. Like, he could potentially sit for the entire first year and learn behind Colton case, and I'd be

fine with that. I wouldn't. I would not be fine with that. The only way I'd be fine with that is if the team with the other two quarterbacks, one of the other two quarterbacks was a playoff team, and they were in the hunt all year long, and you just didn't want to break up that possibility. Other than that, I better see him play a lot this year. I'm 100% with you. And you've mentioned Mahomes. Was the Chiefs or a playoff team with Alex Smith? Right. That's the other difference. They knew, I think Andy Reid knew they were a playoff team with Alex Smith and the pieces they had around them. So it was fine to let Mahomes sit for a year. how much value did you gain in Alex Smith that year if you were Kansas City?

If you benched Alex for Mahomes, what were we going to trade him for? Fourth? Third, best, fifth? Because of the year he had, which is the best year of his career with like Terry Kiel. Yes. I mean, it worked out very well for them. That's not often the case. And for the most part, when you look at quarterbacks that end up having success,

they play. It didn't work out very well for them because they lost a first round playoff game at home to the Titans. So I know what you're saying. I think you could also make the case. It worked out very well in terms of Alex Alex had a good year.

They got a lot of value out of Alex and then Mahomes became a superstar in the next year. Right. It worked out well in that way. It didn't work in a given year, but it could have, they were a good enough team to win a playoff game. They just didn't.

But perhaps with Mahomes playing his a rookie, they may have been a Super Bowl contender. We'll never know. Quick question about who's the most important guy on the staff for Dwayne Haskins? Is it Jay, O'Connell, or Kavanaugh? It's Jay and Kevin.

Okay. And Kevin's, not to say that Jay's not incredibly important because he will be, but Kevin's the installation guy as well. So Kevin's going to be big time for the development of Haskins, but Jay oversees all of it. And Jay is the biggest part of it. So it's both of them. It's 50-50 Jay and Jay and O'Connell. What about Rite? What is his involvement as the quarterback's coach? I think that'll help. I think that'll help.

The quarterback's coach, for the most part, when I was there was a guy that was going to help reassure. But the O'C. always met with the quarterbacks. And I'm sure that's what O'Connell does as well. He's the installation guy, and he'll meet with the quarterbacks exclusively. Merté will be a part of that as well, and he'll add to it, and he'll help build confidence, and he'll help them with a lot of the intricacies. He'll have all the finite reads and things on little plays that they'll have to do. But the installation and most of the meeting stuff, and a lot of it, into the helmet, it'll all be O'Connell.

You said this. Shanahan told me this. Somebody else told me this, and I'm not sure who it was. because I can't remember, but you said that basically a week, you know, no more than two weeks into camp, Jay's going to know on the quarterback. Do you think he, I mean, you've essentially said that you think Colt McCoy's got a significant lead, but do you think that he's absolutely dead set on Colts starting the opener at Philadelphia and rolling out with Colt as long as Colt can take him, you know, and be healthy enough to. I just think Jay's got to know between Colt and Case if he's not ready to start. But I don't know if Duane's not ready to start. But I don't know if Duane, isn't ready to start. You don't know that or you... I think that it could still be an open job for Dwayne Haskins. Okay. If Dwayne Haskins

doesn't make significant progress, because I think overall what we've heard, at least from a lot of the beat guys that are down there, and even just reading between the lines with Jay Gruden's press conferences each day, even listening to Dwayne, who by the way is very poised, he's smart, he's fast on his feet and interviews, he comes off as very self-aware, humble, all of that.

It would appear as if he's significantly behind Colt McCoy at the very least, if not also Case Keenum. So let's assume for a moment that he doesn't start the opener, because he's just not ready to start an NFL game yet. Once the regular season starts, how does he improve? Well, he's going to spend a boatload of time throughout every week, watching film, studying defenses, with a lot of good people around it.

Alex, Colt, maybe Case, probably Case, O'Connell, Rite, Gruden. He's not going to take a lot of reps in practice, but he can go out and he can work with all the receivers. He can throw all the droughts. He can learn a ton in terms of understanding offense and defense. It's a big step. The other thing with DeWain, it's hard when you're a one-year guy.

You know, look at the jump Trubitsky took. He was a one-year guy at North Carolina. It's hard when you're a one-year guy, one-year player in college, come out early, and your college didn't call plays at the line of scrimmage. He just clapped for snap count. There's a lot that goes into getting the offense orchestrated, not just making the plays. And so he can learn all of that stuff.

He can practice all of that every day. Will he take scout team quarterback reps? Absolutely. If he doesn't play, yes. Okay. But that's not going to help him. I was going to say, does that actually end up being more confusing when you have to essentially mimic the opposing team's quarterback

in that particular team's system? Most times you don't mimic a quarterback. You just read a card and tell you where to throw the ball, or you throw the ball to who's open. It's not. They don't call plays. You don't really call plays in the huddle. Sometimes if you have similar type offenses,

there are similar plays. Like Rite would run the scout team or one of the QCs would run the scout team, and they say, like, hey, this is Dragon Lion here. But they wouldn't call plays in the huddle. they just hold up a picture card, and they operate on that. No, it won't. That's not going to help him at all. What would help him is the time he'd spend.

And I'm sure if he wants to play this year, he's going to be in there with a starter all day Monday and all day Tuesday, breaking down the defense and understanding what we're going to do or what they're going to do every week. I hope Jay gets him a lot of snaps and a lot of throws in the preseason. You know, one of the things in you and I talked about this the last two years, I don't understand why the projected starting quarterback during the preseason under Jay Gruden didn't throw the ball more. Because Brady throws it a shitload in the preseason. You know, some of these other quarterbacks that are, you know, longtime elite veterans throw a lot in the preseason. It seems to me, and I think you've told me that I'm right about this, that one of the things you can actually achieve in the preseason,

is you can get reps against an opponent in the past game with your quarterback and your receivers to try to get into some rhythm, even without a game plan. And maybe that's why some of these better teams with better quarterbacks let them throw 25 times and a half. Jay's never done that with any of these projected starting quarterbacks. I'd like to see Haskins for sure chuck it all over the field. What's he going to learn from handing the ball off? He's not going to learn anything from handing the ball off. And I'm with you.

I like to see him throw the ball. I wanted to catch 10 balls in the preseason to get going. Right. But I understand, if you peel this back a little bit, Kirk and Colton, probably Alex, didn't have any problem calling the play, getting the checks, understanding the protections. They had a good feel for what they were doing. Duane has got to learn that.

The other part of this is who's the one receiver? Who's the two receiver? Everyone likes Trey. He's going to be your slot. Who's their three receiver? All these spots are up for grabs. If you throw the ball ten times a game, what are you going to see how they need these guys?

And for me, you know, a lot of times I wasn't the best practice player. So if I had a day in training camp, you might not see me the catch. maybe some of these guys all of the sudden in game day are blazing after the catch. Look at this guy, both three tackles, and he's all over the field here. So you've got to find out what you have in some of these receivers as well, and you're not going to do that without throwing the ball.

Yeah, I mean, I'm looking up Brady's numbers from the preseason last year. He didn't play in the first game. He played in the second and third. He threw 44 times in two preseason games. Alex Smith threw 14 times in two preseason games. and a lot of it may be for the benefit of what you were talking about, the other players. I don't know why he doesn't clear. Well, I think he has to.

He's never done it before. I understand that, but he's never been a situation where he's got to get a rookie quarterback, and no-name receivers, it kind of looks. Well, he did with Kirk Cousins in 2015. You know, he's a second-year guy in 2016. I sometimes like sometimes I am very impressed with Jay as an offensive guy as a pass offense guy, the whole thing, the stuff you've explained to me before. And then other times I think he's really stubborn and just doesn't learn. Like I, you, they have started slowly in every single one of his seasons.

They've lost the opener and have looked ill-prepared for the opener. And they didn't prepare in the preseason with their starting offense for more. than four or five total series, you know, over four, stretched over four games. Last year, they got Arizona in the opener. They got a terrible team in the opener that probably made them look better than they were because in week two, they looked awful offensively. I just wish he would think about changing it up a little bit. But anyway. Well, I'm with you. I think he has to change it up a little bit. And I think the other side of this is if O'Connell's going to call plays and O'Connell's going to install offense and to be a part of it,

probably got a lot of new ideas and thoughts, and you're going to want to see those as well in the preseason, at least in their simplest form, and get him a feel for it as well. You have a lot of new things, so you can't just run 12-duo, bang your head against the wall in the preseason. By the way, I said before you came on that tomorrow night, there's one thing we could learn, and bear with me here for a moment. The fact that Colt's not playing tomorrow night may be an indication of what you think, which is Colts away ahead of everybody. But if Case Keenum were to come out and play one series and then sit, I think it would be an indication that Case is actually a little bit closer than we think to Colt. And if he comes out and plays a full quarter or more,

then it just sort of verifies what you've said that Colts got a significant lead. Do you agree with that or not? I think you could look at it a lot of ways. If Colt comes or Case comes out and plays one series, you could also say that you wanted Duane to get so much work. With the starters. And with the starters, and you know what Case can do. You've seen Case do it in two different places.

You know what he's capable of. You've got to know what Duane's capable of. So that's a definite possibility of a way you could look at it. And, yeah, if Colt's definitely the starter and Case is your backup, you know, how much is he going to play? And you also, I think in some respects, you have to look at it. Like, look, Case is a veteran. We're going to give him the week one reps with the starters.

He's two on the depth chart. We'll just, I don't like that way, but sometimes it happens that way, where you don't want to announce anything, you don't want to say anything. So you give him two or three series, and then you put the way in them. It's a more political. All right. Let's switch subjects. What is your feeling about Trent Williams today?

you got to trade him I love Trent I do he's been a friend of mine for a long time I respect if he truly feels the way he feels about the medical staff that that's a problem for him

I respect that all players want new money if that's a problem for him but when you say something negative about your organization well he hasn't said it publicly in my opinion Good organization, move on. The Steelers, the Patriots, they move on from those guys.

But hold on. I lost you there for a second because you were switching to speaker, I think. But Trent hasn't said anything publicly. Now, maybe others have spoken on his behalf, and that's how we've gotten the Jason Lock and Forre report and some of the Jerry Brewer's stuff and some of the DeAngelo Hall stuff. but Trent, you know, hasn't said one thing publicly. No, it's odd in these situations for him to not respond. But in not saying publicly, you get the feeling like he feels exactly the way it came out. Or that's the narrative he wants out. If he didn't want that narrative out, he'd amend it.

Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you back, wouldn't you walk that one back from other people and say, look, It's not about the medical staff, and it's not. That's how he feels. Yeah, I mean, look, you thought initially it was mostly about money. I sort of went with what you thought. I talked to a couple of people, you know, on the condition of anonymity a week ago, who said, no, this is really about the fact that it was not communicated to him,

that it was an urgent situation to get this thing looked at, even though, you know, the team did know it existed, you know, as long ago as two years, years ago. Charlie Casserly came on with me today and said it's all about money according to his information and said he would never give him the money that it was a front-loaded five-year deal. Trent knew on the back end that he wasn't going to be, you know, the number one paid left tackle in the game. He signed the deal. He's got two years left on the deal. He should play for it and doesn't think the Redskins will budge. I don't think they're going to budge either, which is why I would trade them. Personally, you know how I feel. I would have rebooted this whole thing in

January of last year and look to to get as much back for Trent Williams and Ryan Carrigan as I could, because those are the two veterans that you could actually get something back for. But do you think Bruce will trade him, or do you think he'll be stubborn and try to win this standoff? First of all, you were right in January. I told you were crazy. It would have been in their benefit to have done that at that point. I don't see this as a Bruce feels like he has to win scenario. He wants his player to play for him.

And he has, he, the Redskins, they have all of the contractual right for Trent to show up and play. Trent agreed to come and play. He agreed to that deal. And players are given every opportunity to seek other medical attention. This wasn't a, it happened in the season type of injury, from what I understand. So it wasn't a, hey, can we get him ready to play next week type of deal? He had time to go see Penn Doctors. No one's holding you hostage in terms of not getting other medical attention.

So look, they can find him every single day and maybe he'll take that every single day. But at the same time, I don't think they can pay him. And I've heard people say, like, money might fix this whole thing. Money's not going to fix it. your star player or one of your star players and the leader on the team said he doesn't believe in his medical staff that's a problem yeah i i it would be great if somebody lost a big time left tackle and got desperate and offered bruce a first a fourth and maybe you know a a backup you know inside linebacker or something like that um that would that would be awesome it would be awesome and they're right now

they're not in a hurry because they can find him in camp. Charlie Williams doesn't need to play one snap in training camp. He'll be ready to play week one. And so if you're going to trade him somewhere, he'll be fine to go step in and go play as soon as he's traded to that team. So we'll see. It's new. This has never happened in this way.

I've never seen a player hold out for something like this. So I think everybody's a little bit surprised by it. And I don't know. I kind of understand it from both sides. but at the same time he signed a deal man and the NFL the NFL some of these deals are it it stinks because you don't have a full authority like other sports but if you want it different step up in the next CBA and fight for a more guaranteed deal all I can do last thing before we we roll here Antonio Brown first of all Aaron did you watch hard knocks last night I did

He's insufferable, for starters. But have you seen Cooley the picture of Antonio Brown's feet? They're disgusting. Do you know what the cause was? No. It just came out. Antonio Brown's mysterious foot injury is the result of extreme frostbite caused by a cryotherapy machine.

This is, according to ESPN, he was not wearing appropriate footwear when he entered the cryotherapy chamber last month in France and burned his feet leaving them frost-bitten, according to the source. Oh, man, they deserve what the Raiders do. I've been in one of those cryout chambers. He must have stayed in for a long time. Schefter's reporting that they don't believe that this injury is a long-term injury. but his feet are blistering and peeling,

and it's been hard for him to really run without pain. He has not been available for any of the Raiders training camp practices yet. Well, that is unfortunate for them, because I can say Trent Williams is ready to play, and Antonio Brown will be fine, but his quarterback's not going to get a feel for him. Nope. That is special.

I don't know. I just, I look at, you mentioned, we talked about Trent. You look at the team like the Steelers. They just, they don't deal with it. No, they don't mess around with this stuff. And that's what you do. You create a culture and you stay with something that you believe in. And that's how you establish a long-term successful organization.

Well, look. You have to create culture that you don't stand for things. If this is more about money, I'm behind the organization. Now, I don't want them to try, as Les Carpenter suggested last week in the post, to bleed him to death. I want him to trade them. I don't think it's a major precedent that you set for Ryan Carrigan next year or whatever. I personally would trade him, but I would not pay him. I would not pay Trent Williams. And I can't. No, you can't. And I can understand the frustration with two years left on a deal, especially given that apparently he wanted it front-loaded. the way Cassarly explained it to me this morning. And I do understand it. So, you know, in part what you just described is what Bruce and maybe Dan are trying to do,

is create the culture of if you're going to do this, we're not giving in. And we're going to either move on from you or you're going to sit and not get paid. I'm sort of with them. Yeah, I'm with you, too. I don't know if, so I wouldn't bleed him dry either. I'd bleed him dry until we couldn't trade him. But I would just say, look, this is our right, and you're supposed to be here. But by the time you got up with the season, I'd say, okay, well, you're not going to get paid.

We're going to keep trying to trade you, but we're not paying. Right. But I wouldn't continue to find him, whatever it is, $10,000 a day. Well, that can be rescinded, too, once he comes back in, if he does come back in. According to the CBA, the Redskins can rescind all those fines, and he won't have to pay him. All right, drive safely. Try to get some sleep rather than going, you know,

47 straight hours or whatever you did last time with a lot of Red Bull. It's 22 to Cleveland. Okay. And you're going to drive it straight through? Well, I left a long enough. What? Factoring in the time change, I left early enough that I'll sleep. I can sleep if I need to.

Yeah, you should be in Cleveland. You should be fine. Because it's 12 o'clock. You left at basically 9 a.m. Wyoming time, 11 o'clock Cleveland time. So 22 hours would put you in at 9 a.m. Cleveland time tomorrow morning. So you've got plenty of time. I got plenty of time to sleep. Tomorrow are all good.

Yeah, do that, please, rather than doing the 22 straight hours. I'll talk to you later. Thanks. Thanks, Dad. How about that Antonio Brown story? I mean, you know, this is. a lot more sense than fungus or whatever. Yeah.

Jethro Pugh is a name you've never heard of. He's one of the great all-time Dallas Cowboys defensive tackles. In the famous Ice Bowl game against the Packers in December of 1967, December 31st, 1967 in that game that started at 15 below zero, Jethro Pugh got frostbite during that game. and he continued to play and continued to have a career that I think probably lasted another seven, eight, nine years, something like that. I forget what year he retired in. But he was a defensive tackle, not a fleet wide receiver.

Be interesting to see if something like that actually impacts Antonio Brown. If you're listening to this podcast on iTunes, rate us and review us. It helps us subscribe as well. Doesn't cost you anything. Tommy back with me tomorrow. we'll preview the skin's first preseason game of the year. Have a great day.