The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley: "Zach Wilson, Best QB in Draft"

Episode Date: April 16, 2021

Cooley and Kevin today with Cooley's "Film Analysis" of both Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson. Cooley thinks Wilson is the best QB in the draft. Also discussed was the John Keim report that Washington would consider trading up into the top 10 to take a certain QB if that QB falls AND that they would additionally consider a trade up outside of the top 10 to take a non-QB. Also discussed, the latest on what San Francisco will do it #3. The odds currently have the 49ers selecting Justin Fields. Is Cooley backing off his prediction from earlier in the week that Mac Jones is a lock to go to SF? All of the above and more on the show today.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Coolies with me today. There wasn't a show yesterday. I'll probably do another Saturday show.

Maybe with Tommy. Many of you couldn't wait to hear me and Tommy yesterday because Tommy was so wrong about Juan Soto hitting second in the lineup, which he did not one day in a row, but two days in a row. we might do that tomorrow with Tommy. We'll see how it goes. But Cooley's with me today. He's got film breakdowns continuing of Trevor Lawrence of Zach Wilson. We're going to talk about the Snyder Bruce Allen stuff here in a moment before we get to those film breakdowns. But I wanted to start with this Cooley. You know, first of all, for those that didn't hear the show on Wednesday,

it was really good. Cooley did a phenomenal job of breaking down Mack Jones. We had a lot of conversation about Drew Locke, and if Denver drafts a quarterback, would they trade lock? What would he be worth? Cooley loves Locke. I did a poll on that. 70% of the people do not want Drew Locke for a third. That's fine. They look at his pro performance, and there isn't anything in his pro performance. It says, you know, obviously he's going to be, you know, a franchise quarterback, but you could have said that about Josh Allen, you know, a year and a half into his career as well. But I wanted to start with this, Christopher. After Justin Fields had another pro day, I guess, with San Francisco people in attendance, on draft Kings, he shot up the

board as now the favorite to go to San Francisco at number three. He is minus 125. He's the favorite to be the third overall pick to San Francisco. Mack Jones is plus 150. He was the favorite. Now it's Fields. Lances at plus 300. You still sticking with Jones, even though the handicapped? Yeah, there's this really great interaction with Kyle Shanahan and Justin Fields at the pro day. And Kyle's sitting there with a cup of coffee and he's talking to Fields and Fields is laughing and everyone's going, oh, this is his dude. Look at how natural they are. They don't care about the effing pro days.

Yeah. I'm with you. You know what I think this is? This is remember on election night when Trump went from a massive underdog to then a massive favorite after Florida came in for him and I think another state

and I can't remember which one it was and it was like this brief fleeting hour span of time where Trump became the favorite to win the election and then it completely flipped back the other way. And then Biden, I mean it was a crazy night election night with the odds. this is what's going on with number three, which is the pivotal point in this upcoming draft.

Is it going to be Fields? Is it going to be Jones? It's going to be Lance. Now, the only thing I didn't say to you the other day, as you went through this, and you said 100% they're selecting Mack Jones at number three. Now, to be fair, you also said, you know, Mac Jones's upside may not be the upside of the other players, but this is the guy they want. You know, and you said he's the, the guy. It's still hitting the big bertha driver, but it's good enough and it fits in with what

they do. And the one thing that I didn't say to you is this. And it was sort of approached or presented to me on the radio show this morning by my producer actually, who's so into the NFL draft. Are you really going to

trade multiple future first round picks to move up nine spots to take Kirk Cousins? because that's what Mac Jones is being compared to. Again, you said this the other day, and I agree with you. A lot of people just don't understand that Kirk Cousins is a good quarterback. He's a top 10, top 12 in that range quarterback.

Is he elite? No. Is he, you know, is he Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or Aaron? No, he's not that. But you still, like, as much of a fan as I am of Cousins, I would not trade up and trade what the 49ers traded to draft Kirk Cousins. And that was the comp. So it does make me wonder a little bit. Would Kyle Shanahan trade all of that?

He would have traded the number two pick in the draft in 2017 for Kirk, but at that point he hadn't been paid all that money. Would he trade up nine spots? Would he stop with this one comp? He won the big game. He put up Ohio State, 52 to 24, where he threw for 464 yards, 80%. Do you like that?

He smoked Notre Dame through for almost 300, 83%. Four touchdowns, no picks. He smoked number seven, Florida, at least on offense, put up 52 points, 400 yards. In the three games, that would be the biggest games, he came in big. and just so we're clear, some of the Kirk Cousins stuff

isn't just Checkdown Kirk. It comes from his tepid demeanor in the locker room, his whole hummus. Yeah, because we know he's not, because we know he's not checked down, Charlie. Yeah, but it comes from his

personality traits. Okay. A lot of people know, and that's gone a long ways. Now, it's maybe not someone saying like, Kirk's the driest dude of all time. He might be. Which he's up there.

Right. But do we, have we talked to Mac Jones? Because he looks like Kirk to some extent on the field. He really doesn't. He doesn't look like Kirk was in Washington. Yeah, but you. It looks like an air raid Kirk at Alabama. But have we talked to Mac Jones?

Is he, who is Mac Jones? I'm just telling you like some of the... You said he's still holding on to a big bertha, which is the equivalent of Kirk driving the 90... You know, the 2006 minivan. You basically... No, no, no, it's not. That's nothing like it.

He probably plays golf with a very nice club. What I'm saying is that's what... That's where his arm caps out at. Like, he's got the 240 shot. He can't upgrade, though. Okay. He's sorry. How do you know he's a B plus...

much different personality-wise than Kirk. I don't, but how do you know he's that similar? All right, fair enough. Let's not Kirk Cousins at the conversation. What I'm suggesting is you're not trading to get Kirk Cousins. You're trading to get a Kirk Cousins kind of player. He kind of looks like him, I guess. I mean.

Big teeth, smile, blonde, kind of. You basically said that this guy isn't, that, that is, ceiling isn't as high. You know, so maybe, you know, his floor is... That's not exactly what I said. I also said Tom Brady probably doesn't have a cannon launch at 60 yards. He's also playing with the big bertha that he acquired and... Or the ping driver that he got in 2007.

No, there's been better ping driver since 2007. I know there is. But that's what he's left with. Okay. He's just, he's staying with my Nike driver. from 2013. Like Tom Brady's not launching deep shots. And Mac Jones can throw it down the field.

Okay. Fair enough. My suggestion with the big, sorry you took that wrong. Didn't you? The suggestion was essentially like, that's what's in his bag. I know, but the suggestion to me, that's fine. You're clearing it up was also that, you know, he's just not a guy that, you know, is going, He's 22 or whatever he is going on 39. Like he's an old school guy.

He's not going to wow you. He doesn't have a ton of technology, but he just does everything really well and is really smart and a perfect fit for what Kyle wants to do. Does he drink beers? I have no idea. Why, does Kirk not drink? I think Kirk.

I mean, Kirk, I've drank the beer with Kirk. Yeah, Kirk drinks. Like, it caps at three. Okay. Oh, my God. You know, it's a good thing that when you and I... It's a good thing that when you and I play golf, there really isn't a cap.

It doesn't seem like until we get so overheated, we're like, ah, maybe we should slow down. These guys are saying, here's some quotes. He's pretty goofy. And then another receiver from Alabama says, oh, Devante Smith says, he's really goofy. And then Khalif Jackson says he's a clown.

Talking about Mac Jones. Are you... If he's goofy enough to be an actual clown, then he knows how to fit in. Okay. Like I would be goofy enough to be the clown. Kirk's just odd. Kirk's very religious and is odd and...

That has nothing to do with the religion. Mark Brunel was very religious. He was not odd. Okay. A lot of guys I've known have been very religious. They're not, they can still be goofy. Look, you've told me Kirk is, you know, different and a little bit aloof and odd. I don't think he's aloof.

Well, you've said that before to me. You know, aloof means stand. A little bit standoffish. No, again, it's not standoff. Here's the thing I would tell you with Kirk is like, it's always, you have these great conversations and then. realize an hour in that you've only talked about you. And you realize why the conversation was so great, because everybody likes to talk about themselves.

Meaning the conversation when he talks to you, it's all about you, Chris. Yeah, he just keeps asking about you, and he's interested. He's a good listener. Really good listener, Kirk is. Yeah. A good psychiatrist.

He's very process-oriented. I like, just, you know I like Kirk Cousins, right? I know you. I know you do. Some of this, what we're saying, it doesn't mean. I like Kirk cousins a lot. He's just dry. Yeah, there's, Kirk is not a guy with the most friends. He's not going on our Vegas trip. No, no. He's not, he's not going on the Vegas.

He's the guy that I call home and I'm like, babe, I'm going to go fishing for three days. And she's like, with who? Kirk. Oh, have fun. See you. Right. All right. Don't get too wild out there. Let me net it out. You are still on Mac Jones as a lock at number three overall.

Yeah. Okay. Next thing I wanted to get to is that John Kime, who, you know, is not a big newsbreaker. John does what he does really well, and he's not asked necessarily by ESPN.com to be the big newsbreaker because they have the newsbreakers, like Adam Schaefter, you know, et cetera. John had a source that told him that Washington would be willing to trade up into the top 10 to land the quarterback that they like if that quarterback starts to slip. John also reported yesterday that the team would be willing to trade up maybe not even into the top 10, but maybe outside of the top 10 for players at other positions such as tackle or linebacker. he also reported that if Florida tight end Kyle Pitts does the unthinkable in slides, a number of teams, including Washington, would pursue a deal.

Look, if Kyle Pitts starts to slide, you're going to, that'll be, you're going to have to pay a hefty price to get to whoever, whomever is on the clock. And Kyle, let's just say that Miami at six is on the clock, and Pitts hasn't been taken by Atlanta at four, because they took a quarterback or they traded and somebody took a quarterback, back and then Cincinnati decides it's Jamar Chase or Penae Sewell. I mean, once if pitch.

It's not happening. It's going to have to be a mess on draft day. Like a couple of these guys have had in the last 10 years or a mess the day before. Allegations or some crap. Okay. Assuming no mess, you don't think he gets by four, do you? I don't. I know he doesn't get by five.

And if he and no one's, if he got by five, no one's trading out of six. they're taking him. They're not getting pits. Yeah. Unless they moved up to four. And if they're doing that, it's the sake of quarterback. What do you think?

You think it's... I talk to time. It's so funny. I always... Like, Kime is so great because he probably had a great source, and I didn't even put this really together, but like, time called me like five days ago.

And then we always talk for an hour anyway, about nonsense. Right. How you doing stuff. Yeah. But yeah, I love Kimes. Like, okay, let me make sure. sure this is, does this really fit?

Time probably calls like nine dudes. He's really good if you were to break news. Oh, no. He's so thorough and so sure. So sure. He's called nine other people just as background to like, would this idea really work? No doubt.

And that's why the Lombardi stuff from last week about their, you know, being totally, you know, enamored and in love with Trey Lance and they're going to be aggressive if Lance starts to drop. It's not that I dismissed it completely, but with Kime, I'm like, he's got somebody that really knows that they've got somebody in mind. And if that somebody starts to drop, they're going to get aggressive and go up. I don't know who that somebody is. I'm going to guess, based on what I learned two months ago, I think that there are people in that organization that like Justin Fields. Lombardi said it's Lance.

Kime did not indicate anybody that specifically they're interested in. But you think that it would be fields that would start to drop out of all five of them. I don't think the more I watch Lance too, because I keep going back. I did Lance first. And I do this every time I watch these guys is you start to watch the first guy and you're like, damn, he's pretty good. And then you watch the next guy and you're like, he's pretty good. And he does some of these things.

did the last guy even do some of these things? For lack of a better term, I keep going back and watching Lance, and it's like, there's a lot of unseen on Lance with the ability to run an offense. Of course. A lot of unseen.

Traits are there. Like, I love his traits. Right. I like his traits more than I like Fields traits. But there's still some, both of them could fall a little bit. Look. I mean, not go one, two, three,

four or one, two, three, four. You know, both of them could fall. You could see one of them sitting at 12 or 13 or even 15 to New England. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Yeah, I mean, which, like in trying to figure out, let's just assume that Marty and Martin and Chris Polion and Stokes and Gribble and Ron, there is a quarterback among the three that we're pretty sure are not going one or two. that they really do like.

Just who's your guess on who it is? I would guess that it would be Trey Lambs. Okay. I had a guy on from the Draft Network. He thinks Washington's, you know, that Mack Jones is going to be the fifth quarterback taken and that Jones would be there at like 14 with Minnesota and that would be, you know,

trade up five spots to get Mac Jones. God, the Mac Jones thing is so interesting. You know, somebody pointed out of, out to me this morning that he's not cool when the see told you that i understand that somebody pointed out to me when the season ended that well first of all we know that you know before the season started he was like you know a mid-round you know but the um the uh somebody pointed out to me that that when the season ended the over under on the pick in the first round that he would go is 18 and a half and he was clearly the fifth of the five you know and

that Trask was even close to him at that point. Mm-hmm. But, you know, here's what makes me believe... Kellyn Mon's going six. I bet you he doesn't. Okay. I'll give you... What are my odds on that?

What are you going to give me? I'll do an even money on that. I'll do an even money on that. Even money. So you're not sure? No. I think that probably if you... You're sure you'd give me at least...

Well, I'll see if I can find. find what the odds are on the sixth pick. I'll see if I can find what the odds are on the sixth pick. But the bottom line is that I'm going to bet on. I'm going to go to my bookie.com. I don't think my bookie has the list of QBs. I was looking for that. Hold on.

Draft position, quarterbacks. I've got to look for this. It's going to take longer to look for it. All I'm saying is that I think between. Trask, Mond, and Mills now, they're probably sort of equal odds on who ends up being the sixth pick. I would vote, I would bet on Mills now, and I would also bet that Trask goes before Mond. I personally like Jamie Newman. I know he had a terrible senior bowl or senior bowl practices,

but in terms of watching him at Wake Forest, and he didn't play at Georgia last year because he opted out, That guy to me looks like he has a huge upside. I do not. I'm not a fan of Kellyn Mond at all. But it sounds like you are, but we're not getting to Mond yet today. We're going to get to Lawrence and Zach Wilson, correct? Correct. Okay.

We're going to do that next. We will finish up the show today with the latest between Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen, among others. We'll get to Cooley's film breakdowns of the two-quarter. that are projected to go one, two, right after this word from one of our sponsors. Before we get to Coolie's film breakdowns of the two quarterbacks at the top of the draft, I just want to make sure I want our positions sort of official here, two weeks, less than two weeks from the draft. I think that Mack Jones, I agree with you, I think he's going number three. I think there's a lot that doesn't make sense about it, but you know why I'm going with that more than anything else?

because Adam Schaefter reported it and because you are so convinced and I really do think that you are right on this stuff more often than not. That's why I believe Mac Jones will go number three and the first guy I thought about when they traded up even though I didn't think Mac Jones had the biggest upside was Mac Jones because I thought he would be the perfect fit

for what Kyle, Mike and everybody else in that organization would want. Secondly, my position on Washington is that they may desire a trade-up, but when all is said and done on Thursday night, April 29th, I believe Washington will make a selection at 19. They won't move up, they won't move back, they'll pick it 19, and it won't be a quarterback. It'll probably be a linebacker or an offensive lineman, but that is my guess. Your position less than two weeks out is Mack Jones definitely at number three, right? Yeah.

And then does Washington move up or do they stand Pat at 19? Where are you in that? They move up if guys fall. They don't move up to four. Because they're not sure if Lance or Fields will go at four, which means then likely they would not go at five and then likely they would also not go at six. So what's your prediction? What's my prediction?

Yeah. What do you think Washington does in the first round? I think they move up, and I think they take Traylands. Okay, there you go. But that means someone didn't take Tray Lance before eight. Right. So you've got them moving up to no less. Eight.

Okay, eight. Carolina's eight. Because really at that point, Pittsburgh, if they haven't gotten the quarterback, are probably going to take who's ever left. And then, again, I've pointed this out. I just don't see Dallas, the Giants, or the Eagles at 10, 11, or 12, dealing with Washington so that Washington can get their quarterback of the future.

I don't see that happening, which means that the chart, he'd have to go to 13 and be available at 13 where the Chargers pick to have any chance because the Chargers obviously are not going to take a quarterback with Justin Herbert. Right. So you've got them. I think it could also be competitive at 8 with New England. And Denver. And Denver, so here's where it's weird for me, because I think Jones is going three.

One of these two in Lans and Fields could end up being a better quarterback than the other one. Obviously, both of them could be better quarterbacks than anybody else in this draft. We understand how the NFL works. Like nobody's ever right. This would be every team would draft the right guy and things would go well. Like teams spend a boatload of time and get this wrong more than 50% of the time. but I think if Denver said 10, I don't see this definitive gap between fields and Lance on film.

Without getting them in my building and understanding who's who and what's what, there's to me not a big gap between the two. Well, your film breakdown. So if Denver saw them that way, why would Denver move up? Your film breakdown, you liked Lance more. I did. I did. But I still don't see,

and the more I go back and watch Lance, and keep in mind it's a full year ago, I don't see this massive, like two point gap. If you went on a scale of one to ten, there's a half point gap for me. God, I do. I do like fields.

Again, and this is where people get, I think get confused when we'd have these conversations. It doesn't mean we don't like, I don't like fields. Yeah. It just means I like one guy a little bit more right now. This isn't the way. We were very clear on this the other day.

You have to constantly be clear because you're like, dude hates fields. I know. I know. Well, whatever. You can't deal with those people. But, you know, just to be clear again, you know, you did not think Dwayne Haskins was anywhere near worthy of being a first round pick.

It's not that you totally disliked Haskins coming out. You just did not see him as number 15 overall. And you thought that that was way too big of a reach. And you thought that, you know, he, if Washington didn't take him, he may have still been available in the second round. You have not said the same thing about Fields. Now, you did say, you know, maybe a second round grade, but he's definitely going to going in the first.

Correct. And you also made a big distinction between how you've evaluated Fields versus Haskins. You like Fields a lot more as a pro prospect than you liked Haskins. Correct. Okay. All right. Yeah, I think the two are not, like there is a gap between those two. By the way, on the, you know, supposed bet that we either made or didn't make in the last segment,

basically Mond, Trask, and Mills, and Newman are all sort of the next group of quarterbacks with the exact same odds of being the sixth quarterback taken. I'm surprised Newman's got the same odds as Mond and Mills and Trask. But I don't think Mond will be the first. I don't think he'll be number six. So I will just make, you know, a no odds, even. You've got Mond and I've got the field, basically, because you're convinced it's Mond, and I'm convinced it's not.

But theoretically, if you had the field and they're all even odds, the field has better odds. Not necessarily. No, that's not true at all. Yeah. No. We will make this bet. No, it's a yes-no on Mond.

You say Mond is six, and I say he's not. And right now, the bet doesn't have to be played. and we'll see if even odds stay six days from now, but the draft hasn't happened, so I don't have to turn in any tickets. You haven't even done a film breakdown of Mond yet. I don't have to turn in any tickets, and I'll do it next week when I want to. Fair enough. All right. This isn't like I don't, I'm holding my Sweet 16 bracket or my NCAA tournament bracket, but it's still Monday.

Yeah, I mean, the game is. We haven't got to the play-ins yet. No, we can feel that thing out five minutes before the play. Look, we could make, potentially we could make this bet after the first round. over, but I think the sixth quarterback could go at the very end of the first round so that the team gets the fifth year option on that play. I wouldn't be surprised about that either. Okay. So maybe that's another bet. All right. Get to who are you going to do first?

So I want to do Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson. Right. I don't want to belabor this. I don't think we need to spend an assload of time doing it because neither quarterback is going to Washington. They're going one and two. And I would still bet you that Lawrence ends up going one. Okay. Yeah, because you almost alluded yesterday to the possibility. I didn't allude. I said I think Jack Wilson's a better quarterback.

Yes, but you didn't say that he would go number one necessarily, but you think Zach Wilson. So let me just answer that question. Who's the highest rated quarterback on your board? Zach Wilson. Zach Wilson is. Okay. So you're going to start with the video breakdown, the film breakdown of Trevor Lawrence.

Okay, because you said so. Well, you said you were going to... You know, you saw that stuff come out on Lawrence yesterday. Like, I don't have a chip on my shoulder, blah, blah, blah. I loved it. You know why? You know why I love that? Let me read the quote for everybody. I love it.

It's a sports illustrated story on Trevor Lawrence. And he said, and this got a lot of attention yesterday, he said, quote, it's hard to explain to people that I'm passionate about what I do and that it's really important to me. but I don't have this huge chip on my shoulder that everyone's out to get me and I'm trying to prove everybody wrong. I just don't have that. I can't manufacture that. I don't want to. And I think people mistake that for being a competitor or I think what he's trying to say, lack of a competitor.

I think that's unhealthy to a certain extent. Just as always thinking that you've got to prove somebody wrong, that you've got to do more, that you've got to do better. Here's why I love that. Well, first of all, you said you love the quote. Why did you love the quote? First of all, this is how I felt my whole career. You never had anything to prove? No, he has something to prove.

He just doesn't have to prove it to anybody else. Right. Like, I never felt like I had to prove anything to anybody else. Like, I'm going to be better than those eight dudes, league done messed up, not taking me first tight end. Well, Bill Parcells thought you were, you know, you weren't even a tight end. well that's a little different like i didn't like bill parcels because bill parcels thought i was a special team player and i'm like well that's that's just stupid bill yeah like that one's just you're wrong but i just i didn't look at any of these other dudes

like i wasn't even like some of the other dudes like i wasn't at all like ben watson who was drafted in my year around four five or whatever it's not me this is going to be me this is going to be me I won't play hard. It didn't mean that I wasn't competitive. Didn't mean that I didn't work hard. I just didn't need some animosity towards somebody else to work hard. I like a guy who works hard, Kev, because he wants to work hard because he likes ball. I love this from Trevor Lawrence.

Well, here's why. What chip does he have? Exactly. He's been with the football Jesus. Exactly. That's my point is that there's been. no reason for him to have a chip on his shoulder or try to prove everybody wrong. He was the anointed one from the day he arrived in high school, let alone college. Right. And there's

nobody that said that he needs to prove everybody wrong. Everybody said since day one, this is the number one pick in the draft, and he's can't miss. So, but there's another part of this. Two other parts real quickly. One is that if you watch Lawrence play, it looks like he's playing. to prove somebody wrong. He is so competitive and he's so good in the clutch and has been since day one. He really comes through in the biggest moments. And then number two is this, and this is my favorite part, because Dabo Sweeney is just for me,

one of the more insufferable coaches you have to listen to week in and week out. Every single week, it's like poor little old Clemson. Man, we, I don't, no one thought we could win. we had our backs to the corner. Everybody's saying that we weren't good enough. Little old Clemson, here we are. And who's ever said that about Clemson for five, seven years? They've been one of the two most powerful programs in America.

And he does that, and his quarterback actually acknowledges the truth, which is nobody has given me any reason to have a chip on my shoulder, and certainly not our team either. But he's the opposite of Davosweeney. But look, if I saw a guy that then went out on the field and seemed to play lackadaisically or like he wasn't interested, then that quote would bother me. But his play is the opposite of that quote. He actually plays like he's got a chip on his shoulder.

But I love the fact that he said, you know, it gets to the point probably with somebody like him where it is a little bit unhealthy. Although Jordan always felt that way, Jordan was always trying, you know, any slight he would take any slight and build it into the whole world's against me. A lot of guys did the same thing. The Patriots did the same thing. But he was the 199th player taken overall. He was slighted.

Yeah. I mean, for a while. Yeah, for a while, true. But it was always- The last few Super Bowls, it was like three years ago. I think the year the Pat's youth out were terrible on defense, and they had this whole us-first-the-world mentality and I'm going, this is the fucking Patriots.

Right. Don't pretend here. All right. Start with Trevor Lawrence. All right. So the thing, first of all, Trevor Lawrence is prototype A. 6-6-220, great athlete, great arm.

He, good feet, good leader, winner. He is football baby Jesus. Or football. Grown Jesus. If he grew a beard, he could actually pull that off. Okay. I mean, you know. I know.

You're Catholic. It hurts you. No, it has nothing to do with that. But, but I, yeah, this guy is the, he has been the chosen one for the last four, three, four, five years of our following college football, you know, recruiting anything else. Tell me, tell me about. Do you know how much fun it was? would be if this was your son. Oh, my God.

Like, to never have to have any criticism, be elite, win national championships, be the first round pick. This is, this is my, this is Bodie, man. You never have to sit in the crowd and listen, you know, to another parent. No, no. Why is she and son in the game? He throws a pick. Yeah.

And it's a bad one, man. It's a red zone pick. And he didn't, he stares it down against Virginia Tech. And it's a. tight game and everyone in the stands is like Kevin he's great dude that that receiver he's got to cut that thing off exactly no it's like he's never even had the quarterback's fault it was always ah man if he'd have had just a half a second longer and a lucky play by the defender you're good he's good he's watch this watch this dad he's going to come down the next drive and he's going to take

him in he'll do whatever it takes man your son's the best don't worry about that and they're right And they're right a lot of the time. Yeah. Look, everything he does, he can do at elite levels. He can make down the field throws at an elite level. He can make that Sunday type of throw. That's the new thing. It's a Sunday throw, which is really the Saturday throw because this throw doesn't exist on Sunday.

We're throwing a back shoulder fade into the field on the far hash. Well, you'll never have to make a throw that far in the NFL. Right. To a back shoulder fade. Right. And frankly, he makes throws that guys really don't even attempt. You know what throws a back shoulder fade on the far hash? Right.

It's impossible. And he makes it. He throws the 12-yard speed out across the field and makes it in timing and rhythm. Explain to everybody what you're talking about with respect to the hashes so they understand. College hashashes are much wider than NFL hashes. So if the ball's put on the right hash, the throws about four yards further than an NFL hash throw to the other side of the field. Right. which means the timing's disrupted as well.

Like that ball has to be out now. Yeah. Your dude's running a speed out and that ball doesn't come out now. And that ball's thrown out of bounds. Which, Kev, he does. He's late a lot. We'll get to that. He does throw that ball out of bounds oftentimes.

But still, when it's in rhythm, he's an A plus. Armed talent, man. He'll sit in the pocket and he'll take shots. he'll take shots and deliver the ball. He'll take shots against crap schools and deliver the ball. It's amazing these dudes in college football. Their protection stuff is shit. Some of this RPO run action stuff,

their backs have no effing idea what they're doing. And you're getting free runners up the middle. Right. Hitting quarterbacks in the face. It is unsound stuff that they do in a lot of this college programs. as far as protecting the quarterback. And he knows it. And he'll sit in there and take that shot. He can unleash the ball, man.

And it's pretty. It's a thing of beauty. Over the top motion. He can do exactly. Mechanics are great. Lower body is really good. I mean, you're hitting ball of foot cleats to deliver a throw. He's ready.

He can do it. And he's a really fluid runner, natural runner. He can run the rock. When did it become the rock? It's a ball. I don't know. That's a good question. Man, he can throw the rock, man.

He runs the rock well. I don't know when that became. I don't even, you know what? I don't even know if it's a thing. It's more of a thing in basketball. No, it's a thing. Well, it's not a rock there either. He can shoot the rock, man.

He can handle the rock. Or the pill. The negatives. Yeah. The dude will stare down routes. Yes. He, and I think in part, we talked about this with Lance and some with fields, is they go through a week and they, they have schemed something open. We know what defensive looks we're going to get and we're going to scheme this open.

And here's what you're going to do. Okay. You have two posts to your left and you have got a crosser coming back across the field. And they're going to be in cover three and that corner is going to run with that first post. It'll carry it. Promise you. Just look at the post. Okay.

Look at the post. Hitch. Throw the crosser. Schemed open, bro. Here he comes back. Boom, bum, boom. I'm looking at the post. I plant, turn, open my hips, throw that crosser.

Cornerback from Virginia Tech sitting right there, drops a pick. He's going to come off the satellite like coach. And Davos, like, don't talk, don't you worry about it. They're telling your dad in the stands. Like, that guy just messed that corner. He should have carried the post. That was his fault. I love that.

It's so true. We did this. We worked this up all week. That shouldn't have happened. That's a bust on his part. Good thing he didn't pick it. His parents have never heard. You're good.

Let's get back out there and keep playing some ball. His parents have never heard one criticism of him from anybody at any game they've ever attended. That is such a rare thing, especially when your kids play. You know, when your kids actually play, oh, my God, there's no doubt you're going to hear. At some point, at some point, accidentally, they're not saying it for you to hear. You just happen to be sitting two rows behind them. And you hear somebody say, Jesus, God, he missed the pass again and he keeps shooting shots. And I can't believe the coach is letting him shoot those shots.

By the way, the staring down, don't you think it's the number one reason for his picks? Yeah, 100%. And staring down isn't always that he's lowering defenders into spots. It's that he doesn't see the guy sitting right in front of the row he's throwing. Right, like a linebacker that's dropped. Exactly right. I'm trying to think there's a game I'm watching. So he's got, I think it was Ohio State.

I think it was Ohio State probably 19. So he goes with this little run action fake. And they rotate coverage. And he's looking, he's trying to throw a seam to his right side. They're rotating a safety from the left side, way, back to the middle of the field he can't play it. And he looks at the guy that rotates back and then he turns his head

and looks to the right side and the linebacker is dropping right into his seam. His helmet stripe is staring at him. Yeah. And then he throws it at him. And a dude drops the pick and you're like, who, right? I think that's really...

Did you not see there? It's really important there, like, because you, if somebody goes and looks up his numbers, he hasn't thrown a lot of picks. He's had a bunch drop, though. He has had a lot dropped. That's 100% true.

I can picture it. And whenever it happened, I'd be like, hmm, you know, because you just wonder, this guy's so brilliant, and he's such a lock to be the number one pick. And yet, oh, he got lucky there. Man, he got lucky there. And he's taken some sacks to over the years. Is that because he's staring receivers down? That's one, because he's staring receivers down. and two, he's got this weird tendency to climb the pocket too quick,

where you're watching him and you're like, bro, you don't have to step up here. Just sit tall. And I know he likes to step up because he'll step up, get big, get tall as a thrower, and be able to throw it over the line even as he's getting tight up in the pocket. So he's able to make big-time throws like that. But I think a lot of times he steps up and the pressure will get to him. I think a lot of times he's looking way too hard at number one

and staying with number one that he's late to get to two or even never get to three. He can stare dudes down. He can get fixated. And then there's these other weird plays where it was like the fourth one. It's not all the time where he takes the snap, looks left, looks right, looks back left, looks back right. And you're like, where is he, what is he doing with his eyes?

He's all over the field. So some of that I don't understand. Look, here's the sum up of this deal. He can make every big play. He can run it. He can juke dudes. He can play with physicality as a runner. He can make every throw.

He's got velocity. He can drop a ball in a bucket. He can do everything there. He's got courage in the pocket. Splash plays. He, for me, has way too many concerning plays. Okay.

For an NFL offense. Now, maybe he goes to Florida and everyone's, to Florida, to Jacksonville and everyone's saying, well, he'll run a college offense with Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer does not call shit. He didn't call anything at Ohio State. Ryan Day called it at all. Urban Meyer is not going to call a play in Jacksonville.

They got the Seahawks offensive coordinator. Bevel. Yeah, Bevel. Which, by the way, as we know, is a guy that will run a lot of college concepts. And he are going to get some college concepts. They're going to have to do that. He's running an offense that is a well-designed,

well-created college offense. And that's what you should do because that works, and you have dudes. And it's not air raid, though. It's not, you're not making true progression reads as much. you're going scheme shots one to maybe get down to two his progression ability is there but it's not polished right it'll take some time it'll take it'll take him a little time and if he's amazing it'll take a very short amount of time and i i would bet that it would take short amount of time

you know the last thing that i like about lawrence it's funny when you watch these dudes it's so common i don't really care about what he did in 2017 2018 you should and i I went back and watched some of the 19th season. He struggled a lot, like, struggled against Charlotte, struggled against Georgia Tech, struggled against North Carolina, struggled a little bit against Florida. He threw two picks against Syracuse, bro. Yeah.

Even though he threw for 3.95. Right. But then he kind of overcame that. So I don't mind seeing him struggle some through the sophomore type of deal to overcome that a little bit. I actually think you get better from that kind of stuff. But yeah, he's not, like right now in the NFL, like in college, this last year was just under 70% completions.

That equates to like 5960 in the league next year, which is fine, which would be fine. His drive in the semi-final game two years ago against Ohio State, the 95-yard drive at the end, is just one of those where you just watch and watch what he did from a passing standpoint, from a running standpoint,

from a big down standpoint, just fucking awesome. I mean, it didn't take long, and they were right down the field after actually really being held down much of the night, and you thought Ohio State might win the game, and he was just, he was incredible. He was brilliant.

No, he was incredible, but you look at those last two games, and they beat Ohio State ended up losing to LSU. He threw for 54% he was 54 completion percentage against Ohio State. He was like 48, 49 against LSU.

Yeah, well. And LSU... They couldn't get LSU off the field. Put a hell of a defense together. They couldn't get LSU off the field, but he also threw a lot of concerning balls against LSU. All right, so...

So, like, what I'm saying is, I think that, like, he's just always been the perfect dude. And I don't, I'm not saying that he's not a hard worker and I'm not saying, but he's not perfect. He's way too much concerning to be perfect. Here's a question for you. Before we get to Zach Wilson, which you have rated, you're going to have him rated higher than Trevor Lawrence. How much higher did you, did you rate Joe Burrow than Trevor Lawrence?

Because you loved Burrow. Oh, Burrow, Burrow was like as good as it gets as a college quarterback with that year he had at LSU. Yeah, but his tape coming into the NFL, you're still convinced Burroughs going to be an absolute star. I hope that that injury doesn't hurt him. Right. I think a lot of people were convinced that Carson Palmer was going to be an absolute star,

and he had some, he was making some plays for Cincinnati. Does Lawrence remind you, I would have never made this comparison last year because I was not a Justin Herbert fan, dead wrong. Yeah, he reminds me of her. Yeah, that's who he reminds me of in terms of the way Herbert played this year. Same, basically the same body build, same size, and the same style of play. By the way, if he's Justin Herbert, I'd take Justin Herbert right now the way he looked last year. All right, you redraft last year.

Tell me Herbert doesn't go number one. All right. Let's get to Zach Wilson right after this word from one of our sponsors. Zach Wilson, BYU, Joe Thaisman said he'd take him number one. Chris Simms said, best quarterback in this draft. You think the same thing, right?

I think the same thing. The thing you're looking at with Zach Wilson, the Clemsons and Lawrence and Mac Jones, you're saying elite talent, maybe the first knock on Wilson would be Navy, Troy, Louisiana Tech, Texas, San Antonio, Houston, Texas State, Western Kentucky, they're not playing dudes. And because they're not playing dudes, you're getting some open looks, man.

Like when you watch Wilson, there are some plays where he could maybe get ball down the field, tight window throw. Instead goes, check down the corner of my eye, throw a checkdown. Checkdown takes it 40 touchdown. Good timing progression, but come on, 40 yards. can even touch him. Like, come on, Western Kentucky. Get your guys to tackle. Got to play sound coverage.

Come on, Texas State. Jesus. U.T. San Antonio. How'd we lose at Coastal Carolina? Well, that was a great football game. Coast Carolina is good football team. They were last year. That was a great game.

And you played at coastal. Yep. At coastal. I mean, and he had him down. You know, like the 15-yard line at the end almost to win it. I think that's the way it ended. Anyway.

So when I see the great quarterbacks in the league right now, the first thing I notice and the first thing you notice and anyone really, when you start to really watch it, is every throw, every arm angle, quick release, no matter where it's coming from, with zip on the ball. Zach Wilson's the guy that has this. He is the smoothest throw over the football hands down. It's not always, but the throw, I mean,

the arm angle looks like he's a baseball player. Like it's all coming out clean. Right. But it's not that high, always high to find, you know, left shoulder high, ball come up, two hands on the ball over the top delivery. Trevor Lawrence, perfect, perfect, poise, perfect. No, the ball is just, if you time as his left hand came off the ball, say he's in the pocket, two hands on the ball.

If you time left hand off the ball, he's the fastest. No, no question. It's just pure. it's Mahomes like it's Rogers like it's ball out zip on it right to me right now with how everyone wants to operate in the NFL with a lot of the underneath stuff starting to integrate the RPO stuff quick decisions tight windows that's how I want the ball out if I'm if I'm when I'm teaching my son how to play quarterback balls out quickly balls out I don't care how to find that release and delivery

is. Like when I was in high school, I could, I threw like a baseball player and I was, as a freshman, I should have been the quarterback, but I, I missed the seven on sevens for the summer because I left Wyoming. I came back and they're, there, they're, I'm making these throws and the coach is like, no, no, no, no, that's not how we throw the football here, son. You can keep it up on your right shoulder high, two hands on the ball and then you got over the top. And it was like, what is this weird, like perfect? Does the ball get there? Out of your hand, quick, and accurately.

And for me, as smooth as a guy is, Zach Wilson. Pure, number one. Number one in terms of that. Timing, anticipation, probably the best of all of them. The ball is out so many times before the receiver turns. Little run action fake, 18-yard comeback. Receiver hits about 16 yards, balls in the air. takes one step out of break and he's like, whoa, ball's on me.

It's timing and anticipation and trust is there almost to a fault sometimes. One of his three picks last year, he's throwing a back shoulder fade. And the corner turns as he's starting to release it and you'd love it to see him eat it. But he's trying to release it before the receiver's still got five yards to go. Corner turns. And as soon as the corner turns inside, you can't throw a back shoulder fade. He sees the ball. but it's just he just releasing it that quick i think he throws on the move better than anybody i think

he naturally is a runner he's evading the pocket and some of those boot stuff or rolling even to his left and it's just out like we watch dwayne haskins rolling and it's just this awkward like jumping backward movement nope that wilson looks like he picked it up at shortstop and like he's turning to or like a smooth second baseman hard hard, hard grounder going towards first turn whip. See you. There. And his arm's strong.

Yep. Now, the same, like every throw, arm angles, all that stuff. I still think the mechanics are smooth. I still think his feet are good in the pocket as a natural, like, in pocket passer. He keeps good base. He keeps good balance. He can still drive. He's good at driving off that back foot to drive forward.

It's not that kind of. awkward open hit he's accurate he's he's still excellent base excellent footwork fluid hips fluid throw his pocket management i think is really good he has the ability to run if he needs to run uh didn't he can really it's not like it but it's not like i don't like this i'm going to take off it's one two three dudes aren't open let's go make something happen you can really slide too i've seen he's a baseball player so i just see him as the smoothest of all of them i just see him as the smoothest of all of them see him as the most natural throwover the football of all of them. I think anticipation, progression, stuff.

I think he's excellent. I can't say enough about what I think Wilson is. I think he's the purest of all the quarterbacks. All right. Does Zach Wilson have any weaknesses? Cooley will answer that right after this word from one of our sponsors. You love Zach Wilson. That's obvious.

What are his weaknesses if he has any? He gets cute sometimes. He gets what? He gets cute sometimes. Like, I've never seen a guy attempt as many no look throws. Mahomes style. Yeah.

Like, you see him throwing like, even almost like Mahomes. Like, they'll attempt that little quick underneath screen. Yeah. Where he'll start to roll left. And, like,

for my homes, like here comes Kelsey whipping underneath. And it's like, I'm not even looking at it. Put it on him. Yeah. You'll see him attempt that stuff where you're like, yeah,

he's still covered though. You need to. look and see that he shouldn't have given it to him. Right. His weaknesses, to me, I think, is some of the Brett Favness. Too much, too many risks? Too many risks. Screw it.

We're beating Western Kentucky 28 to 3. Let's get some no look throws in. I'd be, I still think he goes too. But I think the jets are going to be jumping, doing cartwheels and handsprings. backflips they can when they get him it too. I think one of the things you see with Wilson too, you said it at the beginning.

God, he throws with every arm angle. He's got the, you know, first of all, they ran some of the stuff that Kansas City runs where, you know, it's an underhand, you know, sidearm underhand to a tight end coming across, you know, after a shotgun snap and everybody's looking downfield. He throws that arm angle middle screen where you just sort of, chucks it side arm. It's a lot of the stuff that Mahomes you see do.

Yeah. You know, all the time. The difference is, I don't think he has anywhere near the arm strength that Mahomes has. I'm not sure anybody does. But you're okay with his overall arm strength? You think he's got enough? Yeah, I think he's got plenty. Yeah.

I think he's got plenty of zip on the ball. I think he can get down the field, no problem. Do you think that at 6-3, which is what he's listed, doesn't he look smaller on a football field, do you or not? Yep. Look smaller, yes. Yeah. I thought he looks like he's six, one and a half six two, but Max.

Right. It's just those big Mormon dudes playing an offensive line in front of him, make him look small. If you were, you know, a general manager in Jacksonville, would you be trying to convince Urban Meyer to take Wilson over Lawrence? I don't know. I think they're both pretty sure things. I think they're both going to be good quarterbacks. For me, yes.

But at the same time, like, you're the general manager. and you convince him, and then Lawrence is the rookie of the year. If I'm saying, yes, let's do the thing that I think is the best thing to do, I would take Wilson over Lawrence. Way into account any injury, anything happening, anything with Lawrence. No. I would. Wilson would also be perfect for San Francisco, too.

Like, he's so good with the ball, ball fakes, sunplay action, and boots and all that stuff. He's really, he's in a, you can just see. what kind of all-around athlete is. I bet he's an exceptional basketball player. He plays other sports. Yeah, I have no doubt. Yeah, I'm just trying to look to see what other sports he played in high school. But I bet he played baseball.

I bet he played basketball. I bet he's single-digit handicap, but he's like a five right now. And at 30 years old, he's going to be scratch. He's really, he is that all- around. He's got everything athletically. All right. We'll see you. I'm more excited to watch him as a pro.

I love you. I actually have to leave right now. I know you. So what we'll do is that Snyder Bruce Allen conversation we will save for another day. We'll save for another day. Do it now. No, I'm going to, I'll probably do it with Tommy tomorrow and then we'll do it on Monday because I know

you had some thoughts on it. So you weren't going to shy away from the conversation. So we will do that on Monday, but I'm going to do a podcast more likely than not with Tommy tomorrow morning, have it out by late morning, early afternoon. All right, great job. Appreciate it. See you.

All right. Back tomorrow with Tommy more likely than not.