The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cooley's Draft Recap + The Price For Rodgers

Episode Date: May 5, 2021

Cooley and Kevin today with Cooley's analysis of Washington's draft. The draft analysis begins at 22:00. The guys also discussed ESPN/Bill Barnwell's piece that described what it would take for Washington to land Aaron Rodgers and where Washington's chances to pull it off ranks against other A-Rod suitors.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Coolie's with us today, and the goal is simple. We're going to get his recap of Washington's draft, and we're going to talk about Bill Barnwell's column,

about the teams that he deems to be teams that could put together the package for Aaron Rogers' packages that Green Bay might consider. We will do that second to the draft. conversation. With that said, Cooley, I am just going to mention this quick tweet that I got after my radio show this morning from Joe who says, Sheehan, he's won one Super Bowl. Why are you gushing over Aaron Rogers? Well, that's true. Like, if he's as great as I think he is, why hasn't he won as many Super Bowls as Tom Brady or as Peyton Manning, too? You know, he's been in a hell of a lot of opportunity games.

NFC championship game after NFC championship game. We remember the Giants, you know, NFC title game losing it by three. He had the onside kick that Seattle recovered to knock him out of a Super Bowl in Seattle. We had the close game last year to Tampa, 3126. And he's been blown out of some NFC championship games too. The 49ers blew him out two years ago. The Falcons blew him out. out three years ago. And I may be forgetting one as well. But what I just listed, I think, are like

six NFC championship games he's played in. How many of you would pay for just one in the next three years if he was here? We'll wait on answering that until a little bit later on in the show. Cooley, how are you feeling? I'm good. And I would not pay for anything for Aaron Rogers. That's your thing. That's one of your crutches. You guys that don't like it, you don't pay for an NSC championship. I would pay for it, yes. All you guys would pay for this. You'll pay for it.

I'm right. I'm right. You're wrong. Well, you wouldn't pay for it because you don't even care anymore. You don't care as much as you used to. I care about you. I care about you and you'll pay for it. You said that to me and to people.

more times than you've said a lot of things. You know what? You'd pay for a playoff berth. You'd pay for 8-8. We all have crutches. We just pay for Ryan Fitzpatrick two years ago. We all have crutches, and I'll admit that that is one of my go-to crutches. I think it's a crutch. But I think it's also just a way to emphasize, you know, the unbelievable pent-up

demand that some of us have. Some of the people out there don't have it anymore, which is really sad. They went from fans to angry to apathetic, not caring. You don't care as much as you used to for a number of reasons. By the way, I'm glad you're well and feeling better today. That was my first question to you. But I actually, if you told me, Sheen, they'll be in the Super Bowl next year, but you've got to write a check to anything, as long as it's not a,

horrible cause. I would probably write a $1,000 check if you told me that they were going to be in the Super Bowl next year. So yes, I would pay for that. I would, literally. It's not a figurative thing. It's a literal thing for me. If you would write a $10,000 check, me knowing your means, that's paying for something. $1,000 is not you paying for something. Okay, whatever. Would you write a $10,000 check? You just made it more painful. And, you know, at this point in my life, things aren't nearly as important. You know, the sports and the teams I root for, you get to a point in life where it's not just, it's just not as important as other things.

Like, right now, if you told me I could pay $10,000 for Washington to be in the Super Bowl next year, or to break 80 on a consistent basis, I would say I'll pay $10,000 to break $80 on a a consistent basis. No, you wouldn't. Yes, I would go back and you would think about it and you would realize that your podcast in turn, just your podcast in and of itself would make more than the $10,000 because of the Super Bowl. Yes, but I wouldn't, then what, but my golf game wouldn't improve. That's, that's on your own time. You're right. Who's to say you can't pay $10,000 for both of those things? And on frankly, you actually, you actually can pay $10,000 to get your golf game to 80. You could do that. You can hire a golf coach. You can start taking golf lessons. You can start

training to play golf instead of just going out with your buddies and getting drunk every time. Do you know, do you know, do you know what's interesting about that? I don't think when it comes to golf, I think I'm past the point of being coachable into a much. You're not. Nope. Good golf coach would take your swing and make adjustments to what you're currently doing to make what you're doing better. And yet you, in fact, could pay to get to 80. You're a good enough golfer that 90% of your scores over 80 are lack of consistency because you can hit a good job. What do you mean? 100% of my scores are over 80. Okay? I mean, I have shot 80 a bunch of times at my course. I've never broken 80, actually. You shot 78 one time at my course. You shot 78 one time at my course.

with me after going like 85, 86, 87, the first three times thinking you were going to shoot 75. I don't think I did shoot. I don't think I broke 80 in your course. I remember everything about your rounds there because you were so sure of it walking out there. And I took money from you the first three times. And then the fourth time you got basically all of it back. Congratulations to you. You're a better golfer than I am.

Nobody cares about this conversation. Let's just get to the other stuff. The only point is, is paying for something. I'll give six bucks for them to get in the NFC championship game. You are so cheap to begin with. You really are. That's the one thing about you that actually over the years, it surprises me because of your personality in general.

Like you're fun-loving, let's-go-have-a-great-time personality, but you are very thrifty. You know, and by the way, I'm not saying that that's a bad thing. and I think, by the way, given the amount of money that you earned over your career in a profession that is not long-lasting, it's really good that you were, you know, frugal. I just don't like paying people to do work that I can accomplish myself. I'm not that cheap when it comes to, like, I will buy a nice car. I will buy nice things to have.

Right. But when it comes to people doing work for me, you got to be reasonable. No, that's fair. And the thing is, is that you like doing that work. too. So that makes it even harder for you to pay somebody to do something that you think you can do, the thing that, you know, always gets me with you. Actually, I'm going to tell you this quick story. I want to get to the football stuff, and I know everybody else does. But the other day, Kara said, hey, we got to go plant a tree at the new place. I said, a plant a tree? And she said, yeah.

And I said, okay. So, you know, I'm all for plant a tree. She wasn't asking me to do electrical, which is what you got to dig a hole. which made me just think of this because you, you've done your own electrical before nearly killed yourself doing it. No, no. Yes, yes, yes. No, you've got a big shock one time. One time you got a really big shock.

You told me that story. Killing yourself. It's not really killing yourself. That was a very long time ago. You should have been doing. You just announced that I'm going to kill myself every time I do it. And in fact, I'm really, I test the wires. I turn off the breakers.

I'm really pretty good at it. No, you're not very good at that. How did you try go? And that's one. No, I am very good at that. should pay somebody else to do it because if you don't if you're not expert at it you could actually hurt yourself and you shocked yourself very seriously i'll let you talk to my wife about that and she'll tell you that i'm pretty good at putting lights and stuff up that if she says that i can do it

and she's a perfectionist if she says i can do it i can do it okay well i'm not saying that you can't do it i'm saying that it no she says that i should do it okay well you know what i'm that i'm that i may do it i'll have that conversation with her i don't actually not you can do that i don't believe that Mattie thinks that. But she and I will have a conversation about that later. I'm going to start sending you pictures of lights that I put up around the house. So anyway, we, you know, she gives me this very small area to dig the hole. And then I just said to her, I go, so to plant a tree, how far down do I have to dig and, you know, how far wide?

And she starts talking about a radius and different things. And it's got to go, you know, it's got to go one and a half times the, pot that it's in, you know, the, the planter that it's in. And I go one and a half times, we're talking about now a six foot hole. That can't be right. The pot's three feet deep. Or four feet deep? It would, no, you know what? It was two feet. So you need a three by three hole. So I said, we got to go four feet down and four feet across. I go, first of all, we don't have the room here. It was a very small area. Oh, just start. Two foot. She said, she said, just start digging. Just start digging.

So I start digging. And immediately, because of the tree that was cut down in that spot, I'm hitting a root system that is not going to be easily dug out. And I said, the roots from the old tree are down here and they're thick. This isn't going to happen. And she made the comment, oh, just put some strength into it. And I said, okay, but before I do that, I want you to just take the shovel and I want you to really punch that shovel right in because I'd gotten about a foot down.

And she punches it in and the thing reverberates and bounces back in the direction. And I said, do you see what I'm saying now? This is like, you know, this is a thick root system. And anyway, to make a long story short, I just go, you know, sometimes, like, there are things we can do. Like, there are absolute things we can do. And we're doing a lot of those things. And then there are things where, let's just have.

have the landscaper plant the fucking tree. The guy that's got a whole digger on the back of his truck. And I'm covered in dirt and mud at that point. I've just wasted 20 minutes. And it's like, I had a feeling going over. It wasn't going to happen like it was. Like, I just knew that something wouldn't be right. First of all, I think she was completely wrong in terms of,

you're saying three by three. Yeah, that's one and a half times two by two. Well, no. I mean. Two, one time. Yeah. If it was two times one, it would be two. Yeah.

Two times one and a half equals three. I basically, I think it was like this pot was like every bit of two and a half feet. Somewhere in that area. Okay. Okay. So now we're talking about, you know, three and a quarter? I came to the conclusion that it was like a four by four that I was going to have to dig. All right.

So. You know, you don't have to go quite as wide. You just got to get it down there a little bit. Well, the point is, is that the width wasn't even available. It wasn't even there because there. There were bushes on one side and pavement on the other, so it wasn't going to happen anyway. So whatever. All right.

Can we... I love that moment, though, where your wife's got this idea and you look at it, you're like, it's not going to work. She's like, just, just try it. Let's just do it. And you're looking at it going, it's going, this is going to waste my time. I didn't say that, though. I didn't take that tact. I'm going to do it to prove you wrong.

I didn't take that tact this time. are times where I'm like, no, no, no, we're not doing it that way. We'll call somebody. That's not something we should be doing. That's not something we're qualified or capable of doing. And really, if we do it, we're going to fuck it up or we're going to hurt ourselves. But I decided not to do this because planting a tree, I didn't think actually that it was going to be that hard. And it shouldn't be, and there are people out there going, it's not that hard. Well, it is hard when there's a complete root system, you know, a foot below the surface. dude i just dug out like four way overgrown bushes that had root systems below the surface right

you you probably oh my god you get into those roots no i'm a shovel you get into those roots and you are like picking that thing up and slamming it into them as hard as you can yeah Kevin for two days i was concerned and i dug probably three of those holes that you're talking to dig these things out i was concerned that i had carpal tunnel in my left hand i'm not seriously but my left forearm was spent. You know what I do have? And I'm not going to complain because I cannot complain with you. A rectile dysfunction?

Right. No, I don't have that. But you've been through a hellish week and a half and you're still not through it yet. But you know what I got back? Remember I told you about that trigger finger thing? Oh, yeah. I've got that back. That's the worst.

I got to go get another cortisone shot. You can get about three of those before you got to get you something else. Two of them. Ask them if they'll do Toridol. Two of them in each hand. And I've gotten two in one hand and I've gotten only one in this hand. So I've got one more here and then, you know, I don't know what it is. I don't even give you. Listen to me.

Ask them what they think about Toradoll. And it's an anti-inflammatory shot. For a lot of people that you can continue to do over time. Right. Torado or the cortisone, you can't keep putting that into your joint. So the tort. Some people, it helps longer than the cortisol. Right.

And that's the hyper-anti-inflammatory thing, right? Yeah, I've been doing a lot of research for my next shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That's what you get in your rear before a football game. But if you put it into a joint, it's really pretty helpful. I did it in my knee a couple years ago, and it gave me with some other stuff. But I had like six months of pretty much no pain.

Are you okay right now or not? Are you still struggling to sleep and everything? No, I'm still. I'm still struggling a little to sleep, but it's not necessarily just my knee. Like my whole leg is tight, my hip's tight. But I just finished another physical therapy where I got dry needling, which is kind of fun. I don't know if you've had that. What is that like?

It's like deeper acupuncture where they stick with really thin needles and then it triggers the muscle. Then they put like electrical stimulation on it. But my hip, it's in my hip is so sore. And it's so funny because, and I like the guy I'm working with a lot. It's like, yeah, you know, over a long period of time, you know, when you're walking differently, you can get the soreness in your hip. And I'm like, no, no, this is over five days of laying on the couch, okay? My hip's been fine. Even with my limp, my hip's fine.

Now, when I laid down the couch for four days in one position, my hip is locked up. So just fix those muscles real fast, guy. Well, he's great. I like to get him. So it's the compensating for the knee that ends up impacting the other areas. Well, yeah, it definitely does. I have atrophy throughout all the muscles in my leg, which I'm going to have to spend a lot of time on.

But what I think is it's for three days, it hurts so bad, dude. Like, I couldn't sleep. I mean, that's why Monday you called me or you text me. I'm like, Kevin, I didn't sleep at all last night. I didn't sleep even a little bit. I watched TV all night and, like, cried. But it wasn't my knee as much as it was in my hip and my whole leg being tight.

And I think that was because the three days, after surgery, I didn't move. I laid like bedridden in one position, so I needed that. Anyways, we can talk football now. Are you still taking Oxy? No, no, only two days I took the Oxy. Okay. All right. Let's get to Coolie's breakdown of the draft right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, Chris, they took 10 players in this draft. You were with us on Friday, and so you talked a lot about Jamin Davis on Friday. It's the the other picks that I think people are interested in. And I know that when we get to like the sixth and seventh round,

it's not like there was a lot of tape or a lot of film on these guys. So you don't have any significant opinions about that, other than the fact that they did take a long snapper in the sixth round. And they trade it up to do so. So they do have their long snapper. But let's start with, you know, do you have any additional thoughts on Jamin Davis from your Friday conversation? Not too much.

I think that Jamie Davis has got an NFL type learning curve. You know, we talked about his athletic ability and, you know, the vertical at the pro day and the 40 at the pro day and some of the plays that he made.

I think that there's some All-Star type plays that he made. I think that there's still a slight, slow reaction time that'll be an adjustment for him. And he put him in the right spots and hopefully it'll help him. I do think he's a three-down linebacker. And I think he'll adapt quickly. You know, it's funny, this whole draft. I think they did a pretty good job with this whole draft.

And you listen to everybody evaluate these players and, God, the adults that are like, let's braid Washington's draft. What do you think of these guys? What do you think of Samuel Cosby? Oh, top five tackle in the league. And you're like, who the fuck are you guys? And by the way, when you say there's not a lot of film on the, I didn't watch film on the six, seven round guys.

Nobody can really watch film if they don't have it. Right. But, like, there is film on them. I just didn't watch it. I just don't care. I just don't care about the six and seventh round guys. But, I mean, what are they, like, all these guys, what are they watching? Like, highlights for five seconds?

I mean, you know, I don't know. That's my access to have, you know, any sort of opinion, but at least I concede going in. This is a ridiculous exercise. Scouts opinion. Like, hey, Coach Rivera, what do you think of these picks? I think I could scout for you, because I know all of it. about your guys. Okay.

Okay. Sweet. We won't say his name. So what about Sam Cosmi, their second round pick from Texas? I like Sam Cosmy because of the size, strength,

length ability. The length to me in the NFL translates. Cosmy's 6'8. He's a big dude, long arms, good athlete. That gives you the real chance. I don't think it

shows on film. Six, he's not six eight. Oh, I read somewhere that he was six eight. He's six six, but that's still, that's a lot of length. I don't, I like him a lot, but that dude, if it showed on film, he's a top ten pick with that size. I think he's average on tape. I think he can be pretty consistent as is a pure past protector.

He'll deal with some different speed in the NFL. I'd like to see him be quicker with his feet nastier in the run game. I don't think he finishes plays the way I'd like to see him finish plays. Like he's he's all right. I mean, but the size gives him a chance to be a consistent starter in the NFL. He's got to give, like a lineman with the mean streak, and I just didn't see him with the real mean streak. You can pull a couple plays here and there where you see him driving guys downfield,

but for the most part, like the ability to just unload his hips and get into somebody is not ideal. But I think he's a good second round fit. He's not a first round tackle. He wasn't a guy that fell. Like, they took him in the right spot. It's funny because the one thing that I noticed in just watching sort of the highlight reel of Cosmy is there were a couple of plays where obviously he was effective early, but you're right. Like he didn't finish off a guy. At the same time, I thought he looked very athletic.

Yeah. That's my feel is the intangibles are certainly there. Is the love of really being violent in football there? Right. again, you know, putting him up against Sadiq Charles, who we barely saw, Cornelius Lucas, Geron Christian. What are the chances he's the starting left tackle

at some point next year? Unless Cornelius Lucas is the real freak that everybody thought he was and that drafted him, I don't know if that was as much the Rivera group as much as, I know Kyle Smith loved him. But it's not Lucas, it's the dude from LSU, Sidic Charles. Sorry, sorry, Sidic Charles was who he really loved. So, Kyle Smith thought Sidique Charles was a steal where they took him.

If he develops as the real freak athlete, then maybe there's some competition there. But if he doesn't, or if they keep him that guard role, then I think Cosme's your guy, unless he shits the bad in camp, which I don't think you will. All right. Let's go to the third round. What do you think about this corner, Benjamin St. Juice from Minnesota? So I like St. Juice. I think he's a role-fit player.

To me, he's one of those guys that has a lot of length. You can jam, you can play. You remind me of Dunbar. If you watch Dunbar ever, like he's not fluid in his hips. He's kind of stiff out of his pedal. He's stiff in his turn. And when I say stiff, I mean stiff for a cornerback. Like, not stiff for an offensive line.

He's not a robot out there. but he's not really fluid. He's got a lot of length. He can run, but I would question his true makeup speed if you were to get beat. But the way they play defense is a lot of single high safety, third corners, where you're keeping guys in front of them. You're press man, keep guys. You'll go to press man at times, and he should be able to run with guys if he gets hands on.

And other than that, you know, he's playing a quarter's look where he's responsible for one fourth of the field deep and a third look where he's responsible for a third of the field deep. And to me, when I watch him, I think he plays with really good instincts, good eyes to the quarterback. I like to St. Juice a lot. I don't think he's ever going to be a star corner, premier corner. I would question, I'll be interested if they think they can play him at nickel or where they play him. To me, he's a perimeter guy. Yeah, that's what he would look like.

Like, on the highlights of him, the thing that struck me is just he's long, he's physical. And like you said, he's a jam corner. So I can, and with his size, you would think he would play on the outside, not, you know, on the inside. There was some discussion when they drafted him on Friday night that he could be a safety. But Rivera pretty much shot that down, even though he said, we love his positional flexibility, but we drafted him to be sort of a press, you know, jamming corner. Right. Yeah, they played him at safety in the senior bowl to, I guess, show his versatility.

if I was him, I guess maybe that was his only option to play in the senior bowl. And if you get invited to play in that game, you're playing in that game. Maybe they said, look, you can play in this game, but we have the corners. So you got to play safety. If I was in him, I would have played a corner in the senior bowl. So, I mean, I don't take guys in the third round that played corner in college to transition them to safety. That's a six-round, seventh round, adventure prospect that's athletic. And the third-round guy, I'm playing him to do what he does.

Diami Brown from North Carolina, the wide receivers that I know they liked going into this draft. So the first thing I love about Diami Brown is his production is outstanding. A couple years over 1,000 yards a year. He's a guy that makes a lot of plays downfield. He's got really good speed and can stretch the field. I think he's got really natural hands. He's a hands catcher for sure. the couple of things I see

Diommy Brown, like, way not as refined as a route runner as I'd like. Too many steps in and out of breaks, especially with the shorter stuff. And I would like to see like more quick twitch, bang, bang, bang, in and out of breaks. But again, when you start talking about five steps, and this is every high school kid,

like, chat, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, break, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, trap, trap, trap, trap, then it's hard to be explosive out of the break. You got to train him how to go, you know, one, two, three, and stick. And so I think he has more explosiveness than he shows in and out of breaks and his production's absolutely there.

He plays with a ton of confidence. To me, Diami Brown's a really good pick in the third. Compare him to the way you felt about Terry McLorn when they picked him to McLorn. Do you remember? I think really similar. Like really, really similar. The hard thing with Terry,

if Terry played at North Carolina, Terry would have been a first or second rounder because he would have had 80 receptions. Right. Ohio State had three dudes as good as Terry McLauran. That was the year that Paris Campbell was their do-everything guy at Ohio State. And they still had the two young players that stayed. Like they were just that year with Dwayne,

they were so stacked at receiver. I mean, every one of those dudes, good ball. And so I think really similar with Terry. Maybe Terry has one more gear. But I think they're similar players. The wide receiver depth chart, you know, you've got McLaurin, you've got Curtis Samuel, you've got Adam Humphreys. Then you have Cam Sims, Diami Brown.

That's five right there that I think are going to make the team, right? I mean, McLorn, Samuel, Humphreys, Cam Sims, Diami Brown. I think those are five locks going into next year. Would you agree with that? I wouldn't call Cam Sim. I wouldn't call Cam Sims a lock. Really? I think that there will be competition at that fifth spot.

Okay. Well, and they might keep six. We don't know that much about Gandy Golden. Stephen Sims, Jr. was a disappointment last year. Gandy Golden was horrific last year. I know. When he got the opportunities, you thought. It wasn't me.

It wasn't me. He looked terrible. Everybody thought that. Sims Jr. was disappointing. Isaiah Wright, you know, ended up, you know, having opportunities. We only nailed four. Well, Kelvin Harmon is the one we don't know about. Calvin Harmon would be a guy that would compete.

Isaiah Wright would compete. It would be interesting. I mean, Cam Sims would have a chance because I really think that you have two slot guys in Samuel and Humphreys. So those are your two kind of slot inside dudes. And Terry is also another guy that can move anywhere. Not to say that Diami Brown also probably couldn't, but you have three guys that can play inside whenever you want.

So you're looking at those bigger outside receivers. So that probably makes it tougher on Isaiah right next year. Cam Sims will have a shot there. I think Calvin Harmon will have a shot. Still think Kelvin Harmon should gain 10 pounds of being HVAC, but whatever. All right. Well, that brings us to their fourth round pick. John Bates, tight end from Boise State.

I love this, dude. I didn't watch a ton. But I think real versatility, The thing that I love is he is a natural athlete. Like you watch him at Boise State open his body up and make those go up and get it type of catches. I didn't look at this, but he looks like a basketball player. Yes. Like he is fluid to the ball.

Like he, it looks like he got a lot of rebounds in high school at least. But I think he's a natural down-the-field threat more than people actually think. I was really impressed with Brown. And I think he's consistent. is a blocker. Bates, yeah. Bates, sorry, it keeps saying Brown, but Bates, yeah, John Bates. Yeah, I thought he was, I think he's

awesome. Yeah. His college film kind of reminds me my college film. It does? A little bit. I mean, but he got a lot more down, he got a lot of balls down the field. Boise Day, especially with Rippin. Right. I mean, he made a ton

of big plays at Boise. I think all around seems like a true tight end. This guy's going to play a lot this year. I would bet you this dude plays a lot. What about as a blocker? It's all right. I mean, I think he works his butt off.

And I think Boise does a pretty good job coaching these guys. It's just some of the college stuff's really interesting because he split out a lot. There's so much gun stuff. There's so, I mean, some of the gap schemes, it's going to be a tougher ask for him. So he's going to have to

continue to develop as a blocker. But a guy that's naturally as fluid as he is with his hips, and he's okay technique-wise, you get his hat in the right spot and work on just that hand punch, he'll be fine. I think he should be fine. I think he'll be a good player. Yeah, I think it really, like, again, just watching the eye watch. He's my favorite pick.

He's my favorite pick through the draft for them in terms of where they got it. He really, you know, the immediate, like, capsule of information on him, was a really strong in-line blocker, you know, not a big-time pass catcher. And then I'm watching the highlights. I'm like, this guy has great hands. He looks so fluid and athletic as a route runner. He looks like a real, like NFL pass-catching tight end. He really did to me.

And by the way, he's big. He's like 6-6. Right? 6-5-66. Yeah. You know why they don't. He's not a pass catcher because he ran a 4-8. Oh, that's ridiculous.

You know who else around a 4-8? I did. Yeah. All right, their fifth round pick. The last one that you've got, you know, meaningful thoughts on, the safety at a Cincinnati who is a special team star at Cincinnati, Derek Forrest. Yeah, and I think that's why they drafted him is he's a special teams guy at this point. So the thing with this kid is watching him,

missing tackles stood out quickly. I think getting blocked way too often stood up quickly, which to me it was like, where are your eyes, where your keys, do you understand where the guys are coming from? I don't know if he has the fluidity to play like pure over the top, but he's okay in coverage.

When you see him as a split safety look guy or you see him as a down-in-the-box guy, I think he's spying it. It kind of reminds me of Landon Collins. Like he's got a violent streak. He'll come and hit dudes. It's not like he's afraid to go make an explosive hit, track the ball downhill. He's just not sure right in the last three yards exactly where he's going to fit to make the tackle.

So he does miss quite a few tackles and gets blocked a little more than you want. So you're talking about if you're going to play him in the box safety or down safety, like, well, could he tackle? Because that's going to be really important for us. And can he fit the gap that he's got to fit in some of the runs game stuff without, getting blocked and that's another huge important part of getting in position to make the tackle and it's like okay, what can he do?

And so right now I don't think he can do enough to contribute on defense. He won't be camera curl. I don't think he's as natural as camera curl. And I like camera curl at a college. I thought he was way more natural than people give him credit for. So I think you drafted the guy that you said, look, he'll

contribute right now over the next two years special teams. And if he grows in this defense, we got a guy that we can develop. Real quickly, just to me, right now, in terms of their roster, that's the most obvious question mark. I guess you could say left tackle who's going to start. You could say, is Jamie Davis going to be ready to step in and play right away? You know who your corners are pretty much. You know, they're Jackson. You know, it's Jackson Fuller and more likely than not a guy like Moreland and maybe St. Juiced. But who are your safeties?

You know, Landon Collins, they talked about moving to linebacker. Well, they drafted Jamon Davis. Cameron Curl and Landon Collins appear to be somewhat the same guy in terms of in the box guys. Reeves can play free. DeShazer Everett, when he played last year before he got hurt, you know, proved what you thought he was, which was a big-time hitter and sort of rise to the occasion guy that you just never saw what he could do in the games in practice because you don't hit in practice. But what do they have at safety next year?

Well, you just, they have three strong safeties. Right. And then they have one guy that they really trust to play over the top or like to play over the top as a free. I would question, like I would at least explore what Cam Curl looks like as free. I think he's got some instincts and some range. I would explore it. It doesn't mean that I'm starting him there. but it would be something I would look at,

especially if I'm saying, well, Landon Collins is here, and if Landon Collins is here, he is the starting safety. And it's crazy that we're even discussing this because of what they paid Landon Collins two years ago. I know. Yeah. I think Landon will come back with a lot to prove this year, though.

I didn't think he was as bad as everybody said he was before he got hurt, but whatever. I think I love him. I love how aggressively he plays in the body. And you're right, he misses on some things, but he doesn't miss on a lot. But it was too much money. He missed on way too much last year. You remember what I said?

Yes, I do. Like going in, I said, I just don't think he's a playmaker. And then halfway through last year before he's hurt, I said, I think he's trying to be too much of a playmaker instead of just being who he is. And he's taking unnecessary risks that are putting him out of position to make the plays he should just make. Right. back to Bates for a second so when they drafted him on the NFL network I think it was Bucky Brooks

immediately they put up side by side with Bates a picture of Jeremy Sprinkle and Brooks said that's his NFL comp it's just ironic that he was drafted by Washington and I was like after watching the highlights yeah go ahead No, Jeremy Sprinkle did not make anywhere near the amount of plays down the field at Arkansas that Bates made at Boisey. And Jeremy, you couldn't throw a ball. Like, let's say you're running vertical up the numbers. You can't throw a ball over his outside shoulder and watch Sprinkle open up his hips rotate while jumping and make a catch. And I watch Bates do that 10 times. It wasn't one or two.

I watched Bates do that multiple times with adjustments. to the ball there. This idea that he's not a pass catcher, I think, wrong. You know. I'll bet to them they remind him a little bit of Greg Olson as a receiver. Not the speed, for sure. But I bet that's kind of, to me, kind of moves like Greg Olson. How fast was Greg Olson?

Craig Olson, not like four or five coming out. Really? Wow. Yeah. But the last two years in charge, For the last three years in Charlotte, he was running 4'9. I think it's interesting because they took Bates in the fourth round. I think he was the fifth, maybe the fourth pass catching tight end taken in the draft.

You know, the guy Tremble from Notre Dame is sort of in everything tight end. He was taken before. But he was taken before Brevin Jordan, who went to the Texans in the fifth round. And a lot of people liked Brevin Jordan coming out as a pass catching tight end. And Washington deemed Bates to be better. I think I'm excited about that pick too. I mean, first of all, it's a position of need. I mean, Logan Thomas was outstanding last year, but they have no depth at the position.

They want to play two guys 50% of the time. Right. So who would be the second? Marcus Baugh? There isn't. Right. Because sprinkles in Dallas. Frankly, in all honesty, it's not like there isn't a guy on the roster, but there's nobody that I would want as my second title.

end on that roster. Nobody. Kelvin Harmon. Calvin Harmon could play some H back. Yeah. Okay. What else? But I think Bates would be the Y. And you would use Longa Thomas More as a move around H type of deal. Or in their offense, or in most offenses now they call the U.

And so he's matched up a lot of times against either the 50B or a linebacker. I mean, look, Logan caught a ton of balls. And Logan did have a big step up here. But Logan Thomas still has a lot of limitations, especially as a receiver. As a get open type of guy. It's not just a pure, easy separation for him. He's got to fight everything. I meant to mention, if I didn't already, that the one safety that's still out there is

Trey Boston. And there's been a lot of discussion about whether or not Washington will make a move for him. And Ron Rivera has said this week that they didn't sign a lot of undrafted free agents. they just signed the one guy, Jared Patterson from Buffalo, but that they are still going to be active in adding players. They've got four more roster spots, and they've got some cap room. Now, they may have to keep that cap room after they trade for Aaron Rogers. Right.

But other than that, Tray Boston is still out there and still a possibility as a safety for this team. And they're familiar with them. I'm surprised. Like this always worries me because it's like they're familiar. familiar with him, why even risk not having him if you feel like he really would fit? But we'll see. All right. When we come back, Aaron Rogers, Bill Barnwell from ESPN, put together all of the possibilities for Aaron Rogers.

And wait until you hear how high up Washington is in the This Makes Sense list for Barnwell and ESPN. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. Whether or not Aaron Rogers becomes available is obviously still up in the air. But there is a lot of smoke around this story. And pretty much this has become the story in the NFL since it was reported last week. Now, we had the draft and all the picks and everything else. And I was thinking about this coolly over the weekend. Like for Washington, if they had a great draft, phenomenal.

I mean, but we just never know. It takes three years to really figure it out. The big conversation here for any team that has a need for a franchise quarterback and is capable of contending in a major way with an elite quarterback, they should all be in on Aaron Rogers. And to me, that's Washington. They're one of the teams. Well, Bill Barnwell wrote a typical Barnwell story, which is very, very long, about Aaron Rogers and the possibilities and the complexities and the complexities around the situation. with Green Bay. But then he basically went through the process of determining the teams that would be interested, what it would take for each team to get Aaron Rogers, and then he ranked the likelihood

of the teams being able to pull it off. Before I get to that, you know, for everybody out there, there's a lot of complexity around this. Like, all right, what's the real issue between Aaron Rogers and Green Bay? Well, there's a lot going on there. You know, it's the Jordan Lut. love thing. There was also the Jake Kumero player who was a friend of Rogers who got cut late in the preseason last year, the wide receiver. They didn't let him know about it. He was upset about that. He can't stand the general manager. There's a lot going on here with Aaron Rogers. And regardless of whether or not Aaron Rogers is easy to deal with or difficult to deal with, and you shared your opinions on this last week. And by the way, Thysman sort of agreed with you. He's like,

You know, Aaron Rogers, well, he didn't agree with you. What am I talking about? He agreed. He disagreed with us about trading for Aaron Rogers. He sort of agreed with you to a certain extent that Aaron Rogers is partly to blame, but at the same time, he thinks Green Bay, in this day and age, should have gone to Aaron and made this a little bit easier in the process. Anyway, long story. Well, I feel that way, too. I know. I felt like they're both at fault. By the way, if your star quarterback likes a receiver, you keep him. Yeah. You just keep him. You give him his little buddy. So Aaron Rogers, there are a couple things before we get to the Barnwell's list of seven teams and what it would take and how he ranked him in terms of likelihood. First of all, something that we haven't spent enough time talking about is just how expensive.

it would be for Aaron Rogers to retire. Aaron Rogers would have to pay Green Bay back $30 million of roster bonus and a portion of the signing bonus if he retires. It's similar to the situation when Andrew Luck retired in Indy. Now, interestingly, Indy did not make Andrew Luck repay it. They understood he was retiring for fears, injury, you know, concerns. etc. And the team has the option of waiving those repayments. Green Bay likely would not waive the repayment option if Aaron Rogers retires because he didn't get traded. And he would owe nearly

$30 million back to the Packers. Now you can say, well, Aaron Rogers has earned $250 million in his career and who knows, maybe another $100 to $200 million in endorsements or whatever. $30 million is $30 million. no one wants to have to come out of pocket $30 million. You agree with that, right? Totally agree. If he wants to retire, if it's that big of a deal that he can't play for Green Bay, he'll go to training camp and he's going to take a bump in the head and he's going to get a concussion. And then he's going to sit out for the rest of the year.

Like you're just going to get put on IR. And that's something that they do understand, the Green Bay has to understand. and that's something, you know, that's a part of why you wouldn't necessarily have to pay it back or if they were to negotiate that. Because Aaron can say to them, I mean, not on record per se, but let's just say I have a concussion riddled year. What do you want to do then? I mean, I'm going to be on IR and you're going to pay me.

God, that's exactly what we said Trent William should have done, remember? He should have reported to camp and said, oh, my head hurts from the surgery and he would have gotten paid. and his contract would have, you know, he would have had the accrued contract. Right. And even then, even if he didn't want to do that, he'll go play one more year in Green Bay, unwillingly. And Kev, once he gets into the season, he'll be fine. You know, that's the other thing is once you get into the grind of the season,

you might not be happy with anyone, but you won't see the GM every day. You're not going to have all this stuff. You're just going to go in and go week to week. He'll be fine. And then if you made it through the year, I'm sure he'd be able to retire at that point. without having to pay anywhere near the expense. Think about it that way. Is $20 million worth, I don't know, let's call it the next seven months of your time?

There's also the opportunity that he has right if he were to retire. First of all, you know, $18 million a year to host Jeopardy if he got that gig. You know, he'd obviously be sought after as an analyst. He's not going to make the $30 million to pay back, but he'd make it back in two years at Jeopardy, plus. if that's really what he wants to do. But anyway, there's more to this before we get to the crux of this. And that is, you know, remember the 2020 collective bargaining agreement last year made it very difficult for veterans to hold out. They get fined $50,000 a day once you get into the mandatory days. And teams can't waive that anymore. That was part of the new CBA. And if you're

absent for more than five mandatory days, your season doesn't accrue. Remember they, in the last CBA, part of whatever that was a something for something on, they essentially made it more difficult for players to hold out. And more, it was, there was greater punishment for doing so. At the same time, the Packers have this dilemma. In trading him, if they trade him before June 1st, it's a $38 million accelerated cap on their 2021 number. They probably have to wait until post-June where they can split it up, you know, 1919 or 2117. Barnwell says it would be 2117. Maybe there's a stipulation there on three weeks.

I'm sorry? I said it's three weeks or just over three weeks. I mean, they'll be negotiating trades with teams for enough time to get them into camp. Well, to get him, I mean, to get that done. They don't care if it's post-June 1. Right. Yeah, no, I'm just saying that because of the cap, pit that the Packers will take? It won't happen. It won't happen until probably after June 1.

The last thing that Barnwell points out is, you know, Rogers doesn't really have the ability that Deshawn Watson, let's say, had, or that Russell Wilson has, which is a no trade clause, which, you know, allows them to dictate and influence the team they get traded to. Rogers does not have that. So Green Bay doesn't have to, like, trade him to the team that he wants to go to. Of course, he has the ability to say, well, if I don't get traded to one of these teams, I'm going to retire. But again, it's expensive for him to retire. So that's the backdrop for what's going on now. In addition to the actual why there's such a huge disconnect between this all-time, you know, great player and the franchise that he has spent his entire career in. Personally, I'm just telling you,

there's no way that if I'm Green Bay, I'm not. doing everything I can to make this work out. I do not want to lose Aaron Rogers coming off an MVP year when I think Aaron's probably got three to four years left of high, high level football. And again, I mean, we can talk about what he hasn't accomplished in terms of his overall Super Bowl count. But the man has a ridiculous overall, you know, resume. I mean, if we want to go a record. His teams are 126, his team 126, 63 and 1.

He's quarterbacked in 20... You pay for that. He's quarterbacked in 22 playoff games. I'd pay for that. Anyway, so let's get to the important part here. Barnwell says, all right, with all of that understood, he starts to eliminate all of the teams that you wouldn't, you know,

that wouldn't be interested in trading for Aaron Rogers because they already have a quarterback. You know, they've got quarterback situation solved to a certain degree, or teams that Green Bay would not want to trade him to, like the entire NFC North. So he essentially narrows it down to seven teams that would be in play for Aaron Rogers. And he talks about specifically the compensation that would be required, and he ranks him in order of least likely to most likely in terms of a deal that would make sense for Green Bay.

Seventh was Tennessee, and his proposed trade is Ryan Tantanahill, a 22-first-rounder, a 223-first-rounder for Rogers and the Packers' 20-23-fourth rounder. All right, then it's the Raiders at six. Derek Carr, two firsts in a second for Rogers. Then at fifth are the Cleveland Browns. All right, two first rounders, Baker Mayfield, and David Nojouko, the tight end. By the way, if he went to Cleveland, that would be one hell of a football team right now. Fourth on his list, the Giants.

The Giants would have to send three first rounders, 2022, 2022, and 2023. Remember, they got the Bears first rounder in the trade up for Justin Fields. So three first rounders and Darius Slayton for Rogers. What are they doing with a big quarterback in New York now? Yeah, exactly. He would be a part of that deal, Daniel Jones. I guess, theoretically, they wouldn't want Daniel Jones because they have Jordan Law. Yeah, so he did not put that into the deal.

And he writes, Daniel Jones hasn't shown enough to keep the Giants out of any quarterback trade discussions. Jones already, whatever, I don't care about the Giants right now. The Dolphins were third, and the dolphins would give up a first rounder in 2020. It's part of a three-way deal with Pittsburgh. Here it is. The Packers get the 2022 first rounder that the dolphins got from the Niners. The 2023 first rounder that they got from the Niners as well.

The 2022 first rounder that they got from the Steelers, I guess that was for Minka Fitzpatrick. And a 2023 fifth rounder. The Steelers get Tuatunga Viloa. No, they get Tua for the Fianca. first rounder, okay, from Pittsburgh. That's not to make a deal. And then the dolphins get Rogers and a fourth rounder. By the way, the dolphins would be phenomenal with Aaron Rogers next year, immediately. Number one on the list before I get to number two is Denver. And he says, Patrick Sartan, Tim Patrick, the wide receiver, Drew Locke, a 22 first rounder and a 2023 first

rounder for Rogers and Eric Stokes, cornerback from Green Bay. They're the most likely, and Barnwell points out that obviously Green Bay would prefer to trade him to an AFC team, and Rogers is already expressed via reports to play out west in that Denver is one of the teams on that list. Number two, the second most likely team for Aaron Rogers, Washington. What would they have to give up. A 22-1st-rounder, a 20-23-first-rounder, a 22-second rounder, a 20-23-second rounder, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Matt Ionitis. Two firsts, two seconds, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Ionitis. Barnwell writes the following. I don't think it's remotely out of the question to suggest that Washington would be among the favorites to make it to the Super Bowl if it pulled off a

Rogers trade. Washington's defense ranked third in the league in defensive DVOA last year and arguably got better in free agency with William Jackson replacing Ronald Darby. If that seems outlandish, remember that the seven and nine Buccaneers finished fifth in DVOA on defense in 2019, added Tom Brady, and won the Super Bowl. Rogers would be a transformative quarterback for a Washington team that is cycled through starter after starter over the past 25 years. Any fan would pay for Aaron Rogers. He didn't write that. He wouldn't be a long-term solution, but for an organization that has been downright adversarial to its fans during the Daniel Snyder era, and wasn't exactly packing the stadium before the pandemic, he would represent a new era. The offensive line is

questionable, but he could again look forward to a promising one-two punch at receiver in Terry McLaren and Curtis Samuel. Washington would have to pay more than it's. it's AFC competition to get a deal done. The Packers would get four high draft choices, a useful defensive linemen in ionitis, more than useful, and a short-term replacement to compete with love in Fitzpatrick, who, by the way, and I would have never guessed this, has a better QBR over the past four years than Rogers.

Your reaction, would you give up two first two seconds, ionitis and Fitzpatrick for Aaron Rogers? Yeah. How long would it take you to think about doing the deal? None. The thing about, in thinking about it, the roster is there to win a Super Bowl. Maybe offense, not this year, even with Rogers, maybe so.

Maybe, but maybe with Samuel and McLaur in a year older and add an offensive lineman and some of the guys, maybe. Defensively, it's there. I mean, you have that many first-round picks that you've already acquired. first on your defense. And if you get Rogers, unless he's hurt or something catastrophic happens in the season, you're drafting in the 20s. And you should be drafting in the 20s the next couple of years.

So you're not giving up the fifth overall next year or the fourth overall next year. Right. Without Rogers, without Rogers, you're not. You shouldn't be without him, but with him. But anyone that Green Bay discusses this with is going to be in the 20s once Rogers goes there. Roger's going to win nine games himself. He's going to win what, would you just say? He's going to win nine games. Yeah, he's done that every year.

We put him on any team and he's going to win nine games. So Green Bay is not going to expect high draft picks from anybody. Unless they have a draft pick. I mean, they're just, yeah, I do it. I would absolutely do it. And if Rogers wants to play ball and he'd be pumped about, it, which would, again, one of my concerns, yep, done. If three years minimum of high level play, three more years minimum of higher than almost anybody else in the league level play. Wait, say that

again? I think you got three more years of MVP type play. And then I think you still have another three years of top 10 quarterback type play. That gets them to 44 years old. I think if you, I think depending on resigning or how it worked, I think if you wanted to, you could get six. You could for sure get four or five. But out of those four or five, like you should have a chance to play in the Super Bowl all four of them. Yeah, I'm doing that. Your roster is good enough. That's the thing is like they're not in a rebuild mode that right now they're in a fine quarterback mode.

They don't need the picks next two years is what I'm saying, the way they had in the past. They have dudes. The path you're on right now of building it with air quotes around it the right way is a coin flip as to whether or not it'll work out. Because you don't know that you'll more likely than not you won't be able to find the quarterback in the future. By the way, I want to just add that Ron Rivera said, and this is something that you and I have both talked about, that they're not looking at Ryan Fitzpatrick right now is just a one-year solution. You know, he's like, if he plays well, I mean, he could play for us, you know, beyond next year, of course. I mean, there's no reason to think that Ryan Fitzpatrick is just a one-year solution.

It could turn out that way. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible that it turns out that way. I'm just saying that if he plays at the level that he's played at the last two years this upcoming year, then there's a really good possibility. He's your starting quarterback in 2022 as well. Beyond that, though, building it the right way. is just so, it's just not, it's not aggressive enough for me. I've watched too much football as all of you have to watch teams build it the right way. Look, sometimes it works out.

And sometimes, you know, you end up with a franchise like Baltimore, who's really without ever having a truly elite quarterback. And, you know, however you want to describe Lamar Jackson now, has been such a well-run franchise. and they've had great defenses and they've had a culture and they've had an identity and they've won two Super Bowls and they've been a contender for a long period of time. And you can point to, you know, Baltimore. But you can point.

Yeah, but Seattle's had an elite quarterback. Seattle's great success has come with an elite quarterback. When they acquired that elite quarterback in the third round, they were still a good franchise. They were building it the right way. They had dudes. Yeah, they were a good franchise that had not won a Super Bowl. They got to one with Matt Hasselback.

They got to one. And, you know, you can find those sorts of things. But the bottom line is, you know, the way to not make it like a 50-50 coin flip on building it the right way is to land on, in lucky fashion, the elite quarterback or go get one when they actually are available and they're not readily available, like they're never really available. You know, they had the opportunity with Peyton Manning back in 2012, but Peyton Manning had the neck injury, et cetera, and nobody knew. Tom Brady, you know, off of an average year in New England at 42 years old, goes 43 years old, but by the way, joins a team with a really good

young defense and more weapons offensively, for sure, and they win the Super Bowl. Washington just, I'm not sure everybody thinks about it this way, but it's the way I think about most things. If Washington added Aaron Rogers for that deal, Tampa Bay would be the favorite to win the NFC Championship in advance to the Super Bowl at plus 250, plus 300. Washington would be the second favorite at like plus 450. They would be the second favorite to win the NFC championship. and go to the Super Bowl. They would be slightly ahead, probably, of the Rams and Niners, you know, but they would be behind Tampa.

A lot of people say, you know, you put them in front of Tampa. No, you don't. Tampa was so good on defense at the end of last year, and they've got weapons, and they were getting better. Tampa would be the favorite, but Washington would be the second favorite and be picked to be playing in the NFC championship game against Tom Brady. for the right to go to the Super Bowl. The last time that Washington had expectations that high,

it's only happened one time in 29 or 30 years, and that was 2000, when they went out on the free spend for Bruce Smith and Dion Sanders and Jeff George and Mark Carrier, etc. And they were coming off a playoff season, and people thought, wow, Washington just added all those stars and free agency. Nobody knew what, you know, kind of owner, Dan Snyder was at that point. And they were picked as one of the teams that was going to contend for an NFC title.

If you add Aaron Rogers for that for the next three years, the expectations are you're going to be playing in the NFC championship game or further. Yeah, sign me for that. That's the only goal. The Super Bowl and getting to the Super Bowl is the only goal. My point is... The only goal for an organization should be winning a Super Bowl. I know everyone wants to win or have a chance to win Super Bowl for a long period of time, but winning a Super Bowl is hard.

And this organization, Washington, that should be the only goal is, can we find a way to win a Super Bowl right now? Aaron Rogers would be it. Yes, I would give up that stuff. I would make those trades. Sheehan, so you'd take just three years of contending for building at the right way and having a chance to contend for 10 years. Yes, because the contending for 10 years is 50-50 at best. 50-50. It's probably less than that. Well, we can just go find,

we can go get the quarterback when we need the quarterback next year or the year after. Really? What do you mean you can just go get the quarterback? This dude threw 48 touchdowns and five picks last year. Let his team with 13 and 3 record. He's 26 and 6 as a starter the last two years. He's been in back-to-back NFC title games. They played a juggernaut defense in San Francisco two years ago. And last year, they certainly had a chance, and they were the favorites at Lambo, to advance to the Super Bowl. You don't want to be playing in that Sunday 630 on Fox NFC title game.

It's the Washington football team with Aaron Rogers against Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC title game, because you think you might get to something over the next 10 years? You're insane. That is, I just, I put a poll out with the parameters of the trade that Barnwell put out this morning. And I'm happy that, you know, we're 4,000 votes in, 67.3% said yes, of course you make that deal. 32.7. So basically a third think no.

Neil and Rockville, you know, our good friend just saying, you can't do that. I mean, this guy's a diva and cap space and Snyder will get in the middle of the relationship and fuck it up. Look, all of that stuff. And by the way, Rogers probably, even though I bet he respects Rivera, I bet that this is not an organization that he's going to want to come to. Matt LaFleurs, you know, there are going to be people that are going to say, dude, the problem is, is that this guy's going to get back involved and he's going to muck it up for everybody. and you're going to be just miserable playing in that toxic organization. It's not toxic right now.

Yeah, chances are that they muck it up and chances are that it doesn't go right. But chances are more likely, in my opinion, that the season starts, he starts winning games, your team builds confidence, and you have a real shot and a real shot in the playoffs because you have a legit dude who's been there as a quarterback. And you've got a big-time defense. I think that I don't know if Aaron Rogers goes anywhere. and has true respect for anyone. I don't think he's going to come in and have great respect for Turner or Rivera or bow down to it.

I don't think he cares. I mean, Rogers comes in and goes, I'm going to play. Okay. I'm going to come in and I'll make plays. This is me. But I'll deal with that for three years because I think he's so damn good. Yeah. And for those that are saying, well, you're going to have to unload some players.

You're not going to be able to resign, you know, Montez Sweat. Okay. And so you can't... Then put Duran Payne into the trade, and then you don't have to do a deal with Dron Paine. Well, whatever. Instead of Ionitis who did a really friendly deal, who I think is comparable to Duran Paine, just put Dron Paine into the deal.

Well, whatever. The point is, give me three, four years of Aaron Rogers. I'll take that versus what's behind door number two, Mr. Monti-Hull. All right. Thanks for doing this. I know you've got to go. We're done. back tomorrow with Tommy.