The Kevin Sheehan Show - Coordinators Speak

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Kevin and Thom today on the introductory press conferences for Commanders' Offensive Coordinator Kliff Kingsbury and Defensive Coordinator Joe Whitt Jr. Much more on the show too including Thom closing in on a recording contract, Kevin hoping the team stays away from over-promising in the off-season, Deni Avdija's 43 point night, and the Terps' win over Iowa.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. I'm a desperate man. The shit has hit the fans. Hey!

I bet you expected we'd come in with some Cliff Kingsbury or Joe Witt Jr. from their press conferences today. No, no, no, no, no. Tommy last night, as in Purify, covering lawyers, guns, and money at Kenny D's. down in the panhandle of Florida. Oh my God. I just watched it. As you know, I watched it with you.

Priceless, honestly. I mean, you said you got a standing ovation at the end. You deserved it. That is courage on display. Courage on. Do you, I'm just curious. Do you actually think you can sing? Listen, like I've told you before, you know,

Sammy Panama was there last night from Elwatusi Records. And we made a handshake deal that he's going to bring his recording equipment next week for karaoke, and we're going to do something. What are you going to do with Elwatusi Lucy Records? What is Elwatusi Records? I don't even see them on the Internet here, looking them up. Well, are you sure it's not? It's a new company.

It's a new company, and they're going all over to Panhandle. down here recording karaoke, you know, to put it on an album at some point, a karaoke album. Okay. And, you know, they really like my stuff. Look, I was a little bit worse. I got to me, I was a little bit skeptical last night because the guy said, look, we'll come back next week, we'll record, we'll bring out our top equipment with us. But I'm going to need a thousand dollars to pause it from you.

Yeah, of course. To bring it. Right. And I said, I can't do that. I said, you know, I said, you know, that made me a little bit queasy, so I didn't do that. But then some guy who's been a karaoke every week, he's got like a big tattoo on his face like Mike Tyson. You know, he told me, he said, no, Sammy's good. But Sammy agreed just to come.

And if he shows up with the equipment, I can give him the $1,000 to next. week. Sammy Panama wants a grand as a down payment. I don't know that you'd see Sammy again after that thousand. Did he want it in cash? Oh no. Huh? Did he want it in cash? No, no. He said he'd take a check. Okay. He said he'd take a check. All right. But, you know, this guy, this guy, I don't even know this guy's but he's at the bar all the time. So he vouch for him. All right. So if he, this is more of like a parody thing he would be doing of karaoke people. It'd be kind of for giggles. I think he found a niche that hasn't been done yet in recording, in music.

Well, what do you get out of it? Well, that needs to be negotiated. We made a handshake deal last night just to go ahead and record it. What happens after that, we need to talk about next week. Okay. It's just the glory. It's the glory for me. I'm really not looking to make any.

I make too much money doing this podcast. I don't need to worry about money. Yeah. Okay? Yeah, exactly. So the money's not a big deal for me. It's the glory. You know, it's finally being discovered.

Finally, it took forever. By the way, to continue to be able to pay Tommy all of this money to have them on the podcast, I need you to rate and review the podcast on Apple and Spotify, five-star would be great in a quick one to two sentence review. The show, as always, presented by Window Nation, call them at 86690 Nation, or head to window nation.com. So you and I both just finished. We wanted to wait until the Cliff Kingsbury and Joe Whit Jr.

Press conferences were over. And I was impressed with both of them like I was with Dan Quinn. That's my big picture takeaway. I thought both of them were very impressive, but I thought Dan Quinn won the press conference too. I think they're winning the press conferences here early in the offseason. Well, look, when you get – let me just say this. Joe Witt was very entertaining. It was very fun to listen to.

Entertaining for sure. Very – he really was. And Cliff Kingsbury was the two cool. for school guy, you know? But I get it. He's been a head coach. Okay? He's probably, he didn't give you anything in what he said. You know, the people were trying to pin him down about Caleb Williams. He spoke in such generic, generic terms, didn't really say anything.

You know, he didn't offer any information at all, but he did it in a nice, calm, relaxed manner. I'm figuring he's been burned before, haven't been a head coach, about maybe talking too much. No doubt. He did not, he did not talk too much. Now, Joe Wick gave you a lot more, but he didn't reveal anything that would particularly come back to haunt him. I thought, look, I thought he was a lot of fun to listen to. Ball is life.

I love that. You know, it's air. The ball is. The ball is air. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And he was very inspirational.

I thought he was, again, Clark King'sbury, I was impressed with his ability not to tell you anything. Joe Witt, I was impressed with his passion. It's so funny because when it wrapped up, and you and I really haven't talked about this, we were saving it to do it on the podcast. But I thought, well, now our coordinators have essentially reversed roles. Jack Del Rio Zarosi and Eric B. Enemy is our defensive coordinator in terms of talking, you know. And it's, and it was exactly what I thought too. Joe Witt Jr. said something that actually, I actually found him. He had clear personality.

I have no idea if he'll be a good defensive coordinator or not. Right. We'll get to all that. We don't know. But he's got some personality. He's certainly a name dropper in terms of players and coaches. He's been around. but he said something that really struck me, and it's exactly the way I feel when it comes to, there are coaches, Tommy, and I'm talking about at any level, that they're just constantly making excuses for why they didn't play well

or why the team didn't win. And it's usually excuses related to everybody but themselves. And he said something. He said that he was dyslexic, that that's how, and that everybody learns differently. And it basically ended with him saying, if a coach says he can't, if a coach says about a player that the player can't learn, it's because the coach can't coach.

And I think that was, I think that is so smart. Now, look, at the pro level and at the college level, for you, you know, youth school coaches, you don't have the time, obviously, to coach differently and spend as much time with kids who learn differently than others. But what you know if you've ever coached at any level is people learn differently. They process differently. You know, you're sitting there and you're trying to get your message across to a group of people and you can see two or three people have no idea what you're saying.

And it's not because necessarily they're dumb. It's because they process differently. They learn differently. And I thought that that was really, really, I think that was instructive for me to know that this guy kind of gets that part of it. Because even at the pro and college level, you'll see and you hear whether it's behind the scenes, usually it's not directly. You'll hear coaches say, yeah, the player's just an idiot. I can't coach him. They're always making excuses.

Look, there are times when the player's not coachable. And really, it doesn't matter how many times you try. But you have to, and Cooley always said this, about some of the coaches he played for. The best coaches were the coaches that could coach based on how the players learned. Because that's the only way to get the best out of them. And so you have to be adaptable from that standpoint. I thought that was interesting. With respect to Kingsbury, no doubt.

been in this position before. He's been a head coach. There was nothing about this that excited him necessarily. It was just, I got to get through this. I want to get to work. You know, he had a good answer when somebody asked him about the kind of quarterback. You know, he's looking for it, et cetera, and he said, the chief's quarterback, that guy. Yeah, he did. But yeah, for the most part, I came away from the Kingsbury part of the press conference thinking, you know what, This guy, I think, is really smart. I think he knows exactly what he's doing. There's a reason that people keep referring to him is incredibly bright and creative and innovative.

Now, as a coordinator, he only has one thing to focus on, and that is the offense. I'm actually legitimately curious, interested, if not excited about what Kingsbury is going to do and who they're going to take a quarterback because they're going to take somebody that he, I think, I know, Ben said to me the other day, I hope Cliff Kingsbury doesn't pick the quarterback. And I understand what he's saying. You hired Adam Peters to pick the quarterback and to pick the roster and then for the coaches to coach it. But that's not the way it really works. It's very collaborative, especially when it comes to the position of quarterback. There is going to be big say in the quarterback call at number two from Dan Quinn and from his

offensive coordinator, Cliff Kingsbury. I would bet you any amount of money. It's one of the reasons when he found out Dan Quinn got the job in D.C. that he moved on from the Raiders situation. Now, he had, like everybody has had, including Joe Witt Jr., just extraordinarily, you know, complimentary things to say about Dan Quinn, the person. That's what we've heard, you know, from day one. But Kingsbury is going to have a say. And look, the best news about Kingsbury is every you want to know about Caleb Williams, the person, he just spent a full year with him. And so all of that stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we don't learn about, all the due diligence, all the calling of coaches and friends and family members and old coaches

and old teammates, etc. He's going to know a lot of it. He did say Caleb's a hell of a young man. And he talked about finding really a good person. And he went on and on about Mahomes. But anyway, yeah. Well, it's also interesting about Joe Witt, and I think he did say this. First of all, he said Ryan Clark was his best friend.

Yeah, Ryan Clark. Marcus Washington's a really good friend of his. Marcus Washington. Yeah. Didn't he say he thought he was ready to be a defensive coordinator in 2015? 2015. Yeah, it was one of the first questions, then they came back to it. There's no doubt he feels like he should have had.

the opportunity to be a defensive coordinator previous to this. That could be a little troublesome if he's a guy with a chip. Yeah. He doesn't seem like the kind, but it could be. It could be a guy, it could be a little bit troublesome in the past. But, you know, for a guy who thought he's been passed over, you know, for basically eight years, nine years now, 2024. but he was very likable, very inspirational. You know, I'd run through a wall for that guy.

Yeah, it was... Now, what you said about, you know, I think you're right about people learn differently, and he said it's the coach's fault if they can't get it across to the players. That's easy to say today, let's see if he still has that message or anybody would have that message

after giving up 50 points in a loss. Yeah. Well, that's true. The best coaches, the best quarterbacks, the best leaders never point the finger anywhere but at themselves. And, you know, especially when you are the one who is most accountable for it. You know, I was thinking about something, too,

and I guess I could read this. Let me read this quick email from Jesse that I got because it sort of dovetails into this. Jesse wrote me and he said, Can't believe the overreaction to all the skins hires. And then he said, big whoop, which by the way I said to Denton this morning, I love people who say big whoop,

but I think that that is definitely a boomer term. I don't think young people say big whoop anymore. So anyway, Jesse must be, you know, older. Can't believe the overreaction to all the skins hires. Big whoop, he wrote. We don't have a clue on what Josh Harris has put in motion here. These might be good hires. They also might be disastrous hires.

Adam Peters has never been a GM before. This guy, Newmark, Lance Newmark, the guy they brought in from Detroit to be the assistant GM yesterday, has been in one place for 30 years. It's actually been 26 years. But anyway, I'll read it. He said he's been in one place for 30 years. He's been in one place for 30 years.

And for 29 of those years, the franchise that he worked for was one of the worst in the league. It seems to me that your benefit of the doubt position is fair and sensible. But even you, Kevin, seem to be overly optimistic about the staff and the front office hires. Here's the only thing we know for sure about the current group now that's in place. Dan Quinn has been an average head coach and probably wasn't the team's first choice. Everything else is wait and see. So the reason I say it dovetails into what I wanted to say was, well, first of all, I'm just, I can't, every time I hear somebody pound the narrative, not that he didn't say that Dan Quinn was the second choice,

and he didn't say that Dan Quinn was, you know, they settled for. I'm going to tell everybody, trust me, you're wrong. Okay, this was one of the top choices from day one. But beyond that, he's right to a certain degree. We just don't know. And I don't want this ownership's first off-season, Tommy, to be like so many of the off-seasons that we've lived through over the last 20-something years.

Meaning, I don't want to win the off-season. I don't want to look back and say, well, they won the press conferences, which I just said about Quinn, Whit Jr., and Kingsbury. I don't want them to win free agency, win the draft. I want them to win it on the field, and we can look back and say, what a hire Dan Quinn was.

What a great choice Joe Whit Jr. was. Wow, Kingsbury. What a coordinator. What a great signing, you know, T. Higgins was at receiver. A lot of people weren't even thinking receiver. How about it? They got the quarterback right. I guess why I'm bringing this up is I am, my reaction, and even Jesse's email saying everybody's excited, you know, and I don't know.

I'm not tracking everybody's feelings about the offseason so far. But I don't want Josh Harris ownership. I don't want anybody taking bows. until week 12 of next year at the earliest. I don't want to be critical. It's a benefit of the doubt, Kevin, but I don't want to feel like they're taking boughs when we've watched enough football to know that we really don't have any idea

if any of these hires are going to work out. I agree. particularly when it comes to assistant coaches and coordinators and running backs coaches and quarterbacks coaches. We don't know. We have no idea. But what people seem to know,

I read a lot of people on social media, they seem to have a knowledge of this. They seem to think it's all good. But you're right. I mean, again, we don't know. As far as a list of names, It seems like an impressive list of names, doesn't it? Yes, I think, like I said to you last week or whatever.

Four weeks ago, if you said you're going to get the number one GM prospect in this hiring cycle, Adam Peters, you're going to hire a proven head coach and leader, which is what you wanted all along and said you wanted to hire. You're going to get a staff that's got two former head coaches on it. you know, you'd take that four weeks ago and say they did pretty well. But again, I don't want them taking boughs at this point. I don't want to live in the world that we've lived in for 25 years where the organization itself is premature in self-congratulations. It's not that I've heard that at all.

Trust me, I haven't. But I don't want to hear magic. I don't want to hear Josh Harris. I don't want to hear anybody saying, oh, my God. I mean, we killed it in the offseason hiring Adam Peters. I don't want it even for marketing purposes. I don't want to hear that the free agent signings, oh, my God, I can't believe this is going to be, you know,

just do what the last organization that we had that was a winning organization, football-wise, it's all actions, and it's hardly any words. And I'm not saying that I've seen that. Adam Peters is soft-spoken. Yeah, I agree. Yes, he does not seem like a talkative guy who is going to, you know, bust his buttons overlook what I've done when they haven't done anything. I don't think you're going to get that from him.

Right, right. Joe Witt Jr. definitely was telling you what kind of defense you were going to have, though. But, you know, that's him coaching, too, in the middle of a press conference, basically. You know, talking about the ball is life and you need air to breathe and the turnovers and, you know, the work ethic that they're going to have and the whole thing. I understand big picture that based on who they could have gotten, I think they did pretty well. But it doesn't mean anything. doesn't mean that these ingredients coming together in this place with this ownership is going to work. Ultimately, they have to get number two right.

Really, the more and more I think about all of the off-season stuff, they've got to get the quarterback right. I think Adam Peters has to be right. Don't get me wrong. And I think Josh Harris has to be right, you know, obviously. But they, you know, they, Josh. Charris could be right and Adam Peters could be right and Dan Quinn could be right. And you just have a competent franchise that goes nine and eight one year, eight and nine the next, you know, has a bad year, then maybe has a good year. But to build a true championship contender, they got to get

number two right. Yes, they do. Even if it means turn it into number one. Even if it means turning it into number one. Yeah. Can't believe how many people people would, you know, would add, you know, they are absolutely dead set against trading up to number one. I'm not for it or against it at this point. Traditionally, traditionally, I mean, look at San Francisco. Look what they did with Tray Lance. Yeah. It hasn't traditionally worked, I don't think.

In Washington, you know, the RG3 trade. I mean, it looked like it worked for a year, but, you know, the reality is it wound up not working. So these trades generally, at least in our recent memory, have not worked. So I understand the trepidation about it. But the bottom line is, if you think that getting Caleb Williams is your best chance to change the direction of this franchise, you've got to do everything you can to do that. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt.

I'm just looking through, by the way, just I haven't done this recently. If you start with the James Winston Marcus Marietta draft that was one, two in that order, the bucks took Winston, Titans took Marioita, first and second, 0 for two, all right? Right there in your top two, oh for two, basically. The next year was Jared Gough won Carson Wentz to. I mean, for a while you would have said that was kind of O for two, but Gough has proven to be a legitimate starting quarterback that you can win with. 2017 was, you know, Trabisky at two overall.

I mean, total dud. And then you went Mahomes at 10, Watson at 12. Look, Deshawn Watson, before all those issues, was a pretty damn good quarterback, and I would have called an absolute hit. 2018, Baker Mayfield was one. Sam Darnold was three. Josh Allen was seven.

Josh Rosen was 10. Lamar Jackson was 32, but the top half of the picks in that draft, you would say that it was one for four with Mayfield kind of pending, you know, as a potential, you know, legitimate starting quarterback. 2019, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins in the top half of the draft. You know, then you went Burrough 2021-20-2-25, Herbert, Seth. By the way, Jordan Love was 26 in that draft. But in terms of the top half of the draft, that's been the most productive by far. Burrow, Tua, and Justin, it's two for three worst case, but probably a solid two and a half out of the three, depending on how you feel about two. 2021, Trevor Lawrence, one overall.

Then it was Zach Wilson two, Trey Lance three, Justin Fields 11, Mack Jones 15. Okay, of those quarterbacks, as of now, there's only one that you know can do it. But you're not even sure how good Trevor Lawrence is ultimately going to be. I still have some belief in fields. The 2022 draft was not a quarterback draft. And then last year it was Young 1, Stroud 2, Richardson 4. Richardson really did show some promise before he got hurt. C.J. Stroud had a phenomenal rookie year.

and Bryce Young is going to be on coach number two in two seasons. We'll see. But it is a total crapshoot. It's a total crap shoot in the draft, but you've got to try. When you don't have one, you've got to try to go get one. And they don't have one. Sorry, Howlers. They don't have one.

No, they don't. All right. What else on the football team? Well, I've been holding this hand grenade in my hand and wondering whether I should pull a pin or not because nobody's want to go to hear this. This is going to be like wizards talk right here. Okay.

Are we saving it for the next segment? I have to do it. Are we saving it for the next? Yeah, we'll save it for the next segment. All right. Let's take a break. And Tommy's got a hand. hand grenade. He's getting ready to pull the pin. I have no idea what's coming, but I'm going to duck.

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All right, I can't wait to hear what you've got ready to drop on us. What? Oh, you could wait. Trust me, you could wait. All right, go ahead. Okay. I can't help this. Okay.

I know it's in the past. I know everyone wants to bury it. But it's so funny. It's so hilarious. I just can't help myself. Oh, boy. They just hired a guy. in Lance Newmark, that's his name, right?

Yeah. Who was with the Detroit Lions, what, for 26 years? Yes. Okay? He was with the organization for 26 years. Okay? I mean, it's not like Adam Peters just came across this guy and said, let's hire him.

He's probably wanted to hire him for a while, wouldn't you think, if he got in this position? I, okay, now I see where you're going with this. I wasn't sure where you were going with this. Okay, finish. Okay, finish. So, I mean, it's not like they just met each other. These guys know each other, okay?

How in the hell? Could they not have known what was going on with Ben Johnson when Adam Peterson's now assistant GM worked in the same organization as Johnson for 30 years. How did they not know when the brother of one of their wanted advisors, Rick Spielman, Chris Spielman, was the CEO of the Lions? How could they have been caught so short on the Ben Johnson thing? This is just insane. Oh, God. You're absolutely ridiculous. You're right. You just really should have stayed away from this. So, no, yes, yes.

This guy's a little bit volatile. Did you know? Did you know, did you have any idea that for the first time in his 26 years in Detroit? Because he was almost around for the last time they were in the playoffs and hosted a game. They were in a Super Bowl run. I mean, I don't know. why this gets undersold so much. I actually asked Nikki Javala, Ben Standing, John Kime, all the same question.

Is it weird to you guys and is it unique that these coaches who are getting ready for the biggest games of their lives on a Friday or Saturday before the game are doing three or four Zoom interviews? And they all said the same thing. It's very strange. And it's new. and it's part of the way they're allowed to do it now. I don't, why should Lance Newmark?

By the way, he was there 26 years. And they did negotiate, apparently, for, I thought you were going in the direction of, why didn't he hire him right away? I mean, he's known all along. Well, because they just got done, and apparently they did have to prod Detroit into letting him go. But that's not where you were going with it.

You were going with the Ben Johnson thing. It's just very possible, Tommy, that nobody knew that Ben Johnson was going to bail for a second straight year. It's also possible that Washington heard all these things from Chris Spielman and from Lance Newmark, and they knew that it was a questionable hire that they knew they probably weren't going to hire him. But they had to wait until Baltimore was done to interview McDonald. They had to wait until Detroit was done to interview Aaron Glenn.

They were going to Detroit anyway. So I don't know why you're so hung up on this. It's just this absurd. This is ridiculous. Okay, let me give you something else. The guy they just hired to be their assistant quarterbacks coach. David Blow? Yeah.

Okay. Detroit. David Blow. Yeah. He was from Detroit. Yeah. This is from the Washington Post on, January 29th. It's about Ben Johnson.

Watching him grow over the last few years and what he's been able to do to help this place get restored, he would be a great head coach. You're saying that that was David Blow about Ben Johnson. Yes. Well, he was in the quarterback room all year this year with Detroit. Yes. What's he supposed to say? This guy sucks. He'd never be a good head coach.

Oh, and he didn't just say that. He said, okay, what makes him really special is he's not afraid to push the cutting edge of creativity and try new things and pay attention to this part, have a truly collaborative process of people bringing him ideas. Isn't that an aligned vision? Isn't that what that is? Yeah, it is. But Tommy, he didn't want to be a head coach. When he got done with this playoff run, he decided he didn't want to be a head coach. They should have known that.

Well, the only way for them to know that was to sit down face-to-face and have a conversation with him. Well, they were about to go for their second conversation with them. The first face-to-face. They don't give me the argument. They were going to talk to Aaron Glenn. Well, they did. Don't give me that. They were. He was on the list right from the beginning. Yeah, sure.

Sure. They were flying out to Detroit to have a second interview with Aaron Glenn. Well, I think technically they had to hire. They had to interview. one more minority external candidate. I think they had the internal candidate and Bianami, but I think they needed to interview one other, I think it was two external candidates. I'm forgetting who else they interviewed in this process.

So I think it actually was a required interview of Aaron Glenn. Didn't they interview Wahim Morris? Yeah, and I think you have to interview two external minority candidates. Okay. And has to be in person? Yeah. I believe so. I'm pretty sure somebody on the beat, Michael Phillips, somebody laid it out as to they still had to make that trip to Detroit to interview Aaron Glenn to satisfy Rooney Rule stuff.

Okay. But again, I mean, why is this a big deal? Explain to me why them going through this process of trying to interview everybody that they can face it? to face, anybody that was on their initial list that the search committee put together, anybody that Adam Peters didn't have a chance to sit in on the first couple of days, like the Ravens guys, Weaver and McDonald, why is this such a big deal to you? I don't understand it. Is it just because you want to hammer home this narrative that Dan Quinn they had to settle for?

No, no, no. I'm not saying they had to settle for Dan Quinn. I'm just saying the show they put. on was a show that blew up in their face. They didn't put on a show. They weren't reporting Ben Johnson. They had their advisors issuing doing statements through the team. When's the last time you saw advisors issuing statements through the team?

Advisors are usually quiet. Look, the big show that you've described, I'm not going to sit here and debate that so hard because part of that stuff I usually recognize and it bothers me to. I just know what they told us when they hired Adam Peters in terms of what they were looking for. I just know what we were told when Josh Harris and Mitchell Rails specifically were part of, we're the owner and then the next owner based on equity in the ownership group that they are process driven, they are meticulous, they are thorough, that they're going to go through, you know, they're going to cross every T, dot, every I kind of a group.

It's not going to be impulsive. You know, the Adam Peters thing happened quickly because they identified Peters after interviewing three or four of the leading candidates for a GM, which you could interview right away. You could do that right away. You had to wait for the coaches because they were coaching. I understand all that, Kevin. I understand all that.

Okay, I just find it comical that guys, they had access, whether personal or otherwise, to people who had information about Ben Johnson. Maybe Ben Johnson told them, maybe Ben Johnson led them to believe that he was ready to be a head coach. You're right, maybe that happened. Maybe it did. You know, here's the- I just find it hilarious that they keep bringing in guys from Detroit, except the guy that they, that they thought they wanted to hire. Right. David Blow, by the way, in one of those press conferences that I went back and watched

of Ben Johnson before Washington hired Dan Quinn when it looked like Ben Johnson was the number one, number one, he mentioned in a press conference, David Blow. And I'm like, wow, that guy's been in Detroit forever, because I think he played like a Thanksgiving Day game. But he talked about how Blow puts in a lot of very good, points. He talked about being collaborative with his quarterbacks, the Blow comment. And he specifically pointed out David Blow, who by the way, wasn't even on the official roster.

He was like practice squad. He was a practice squad guy. I get that. Because the backup, yeah. Then they were lucky to get David Blow. Yeah, I guess so. And they really like Tevita Pritcher, too, who they kept. somebody somebody mentioned to me that I forget who it was

I think Ben and I were having a conversation and he's like one of the things I like about what they've done is they've created this ability that if Cliff Kingsbury and the quarterback knock it out of the park you got Brian Johnson there you got Tavita Pritchard there

and I just said to him why don't we just take it one step at a time and see if Kingsbury's any good. Like, you know, this idea of, hey, they are planning for the, they're planning for that moment when they lose their offensive coordinator to be a head coach.

I'm like, look, we have lost offensive people in the past. There's no doubt about it who have become head coaches. But we didn't get the benefit of them being here and winning and producing great offense. I would like, if they are thinking that way, if they're thinking in terms of, what's the term I'm looking for when you've got somebody in waiting? If they're thinking that far ahead and strategically, God bless them,

I just hope that they actually got the guy that they have, the O.C. and the D.C. correct? And that we can maybe have that as a problem. There could be, if let's say Cliff Kingsbury was very successful, one left after a year or two, Well, there could be a whole new field of offensive coordinators available. Of course. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Not only that. There are probably a couple of coaches or a couple of QC guys that they'll have in the building that, you know, eight weeks into the season after OTAs and training camp and it came to, that dude, that guy is a guy that's really good. We got to get him into a position. He's going to be a position coach. I mean, there are people that they'll be exposed to that they have. haven't been exposed to and to your point, like if they are so fortunate as to have so much success that people are coming from around the league to grab their coordinators, there are

other people out there, I'm sure. Look, from a new quarterback standpoint, you know, a young quarterback, I would love to have some consistency with whomever that person is that's really developing the quarterback. If it's the OC or the quarterbacks coach, you'd want some consistency there for a few years. I understand that part for sure. Anyway, exciting times in Ashburn. Exciting times for the franchise. It does seem to me, let me make one more comment just about the group as a whole. And tomorrow I'm going to have Dan Quinn on the radio show. So 10-25 tomorrow morning, Dan Quinn will be on with me on radio if you want to Can you tell you give him my best, tell him? I said, hello.

I will. I will. Thank you. But I think one of the things, I don't know, maybe, I think actually we said this about Ron Rivera and even Jack Del Rio. So you can't even get carried away with this stuff. But it does seem more like you got some adults running this organization now. It doesn't mean they're going to win and win. big and win consistently. Look, the single biggest

win, I think we've said this once or 50 times, is that Dan Snyder doesn't own the team anymore. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, it's the problems that you're going to deal with as a fan will likely be

limited to football problems. Right. Like most other teams in the league, you know? I mean, your frustration and your anger will be limited to football decisions. Not the kind of embarrassing actions that would make you want to put a bag over your head when you had to go to Thanksgiving dinner with your family,

knowing who you root for. You don't know, it's just football now. So that's a big win. You're right. Yeah, he'd be sitting back just trying to, I mean, he'd be Cliff Kingsbury's best friend. I can already tell that Kingsbury would have been the guy that he would have been wanting to hang out with. You're so right.

You're absolutely right. A few more things we'll finish up with right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's. Okay, Shelley's backroom at 1331 F Street Northwest is like one big smoky menu of excellence. I've talked about the various food menus and the drink menus that they have. I talked about the cigar menus as well, but it's important to point out that the Bible of the industry is cigar officiato. It's a great magazine where they rate cigars all the time. And it shouldn't have a great story.

You know, I wrote a story once for Cigar Officiato magazine. You did? I did a profile of Mike Rizzo, but Mike it's a cigar guy. Wow. was that? And they publish it. I think he's got it framed in his office. That's awesome. But you've never told me about that. But in addition to all the great stories they have, like Playboy, in addition to the great stories, there were pictures. Well, it's the cigar. Remember that? Dad gets Playboy for the articles. Cigar Pichinato. That's such a 70s thing. I know. I know. They have the cigar ratings. Those are the, those are the, the, the, the, the pit-up

pictures, their version of the pin-up pictures. And every year, they come up with a list of the top 25 cigars that they rank, you know, that are made, manufactured. Shelly's backroom goes out in their way to make sure in their stock, they have those top 25 available to you. So you have a chance to buy the best of the best when you walk in the Shelley's looking for a smoke. Shelly's backroom, you can find out more about their cigar menu and everything else. You go to shelley's backroom.com. So I wanted to finish up with two things, although I did read your column today,

which I thought was really, really good. Tommy wrote a story about transparent Ted and the situation going on with Leonces. And I don't know if you want to talk about it, but you can if you want. But before we get to that, two things. First of all, and I know this is my hand grenade. This is Wizards talk, so I'm going to clear out the room here. Denny of Dia last night had 43 points and 15 rebounds for the Wizards, and their loss against a very good New Orleans Pelicans team.

Deni Abdiah, I have been a fan of. I have thought all along Denny of Diavda plays hard. He plays confidently. He can really guard. he's been one of the players since he was drafted in the first round four years ago. He's been one of those players that's really been a defensive stalwart for them, and they haven't had many of them. But I've seen it at times where he is a much more confident offensive player

than maybe sometimes the results would sort of dictate. He, Tommy, is along with Kulibali, their first round pick. these are two pieces for the future. If there is a future, you know, there's going to be a future of contention if they hit on a superstar in one of the next three drafts or so, which is what they're trying to do, more than 2025 and 2026 drafts in particular. But they're going to have to land a superstar, you know, a transcendent player to be a championship team or championship contender.

But they do have pieces that will, be around and potentially be entering prime years. And Abdea is one of those players. 43 and 15, even in this year of lots of NBA points and lots of big games, there are not a lot of players that end up with 43 and 15 in a game. And by the way, he's only 23 years old. Oh, yeah. No, he was drafted at 19 too, like Kulabali.

And he is, you know, he is very versatile defensively at 6-10, you know, 6-9, 6-10, whatever he is. He is definitely a guy who can handle the ball. He's versatile on offense. And he's really proven this year he can shoot the three. He's shooting, I think I looked this up earlier this morning. He's shooting over 40% from behind the arc. And there are, for you, few Wizards fans that are listening. they have some young players.

And Kyle Kuzma, by the way, it was reported by Brian Windhorst that the Wizards turned down two first round picks from the Mavericks last week before the trade deadline for Kyle Kuzma. If you read the athletic story by Josh Robbins, they went to Kuzma and they asked him, do you want to go to Dallas?

They really love Kyle Kuzma in that organization. And he said, no, I want to stay here, and I want to be a part of what you're building. And I think that's interesting, too, because he's only 27. So theoretically, if they landed on a big-time star, let's just say in the 2025 draft, and two to three years after that, and you're talking about 27 or 28, you know, four or five years from now, Kuzma would be early 30s the veteran star.

You'd have the young superstar and two, you know, 27-year-old stars, are really strong pieces. I actually think there's more here than most fans would have any clue of because they're not paying attention. And I understand why they're not paying attention. They are 9 and 45, by the way, and they've lost eight games in a row. Although they've been incredibly competitive here recently in losses to some pretty good teams like the Celtics, the Cavs, Celtics, 76ers, Mavericks, and then last night against, the Pelicans. By the way, Zion Williamson, who's really having a season now, had 36 last night.

Tommy, there are players when you watch them, you're like, oh my God, like you can't stop him if he wants to get to the rim. Zion's one of those guys. He's so strong. I was looking at this the other night when I was watching him against the Clippers. He is listed at 6-6-6- and 2.5.000. He's listed at 6-6 and 2. 90, but he's so athletic. Like he is Barclay's body, but he's super athletic, and he's such a quick jumper. And if you haven't watched Zion, I know he's been so injured in those first, you know, two or three years of his career, is at three years now, whatever it is, man, is he a player? Then I just wanted to mention Maryland last night.

So Tommy, two things college basketball-wise. on the show, I gave out Detroit Mercy last night. They were zero and 26 going into their game against IUPUI. Do you have any idea what IUPUI stands for? Indiana University of Pennsylvania. No. There is an Indiana University of Pennsylvania. Of course there is.

By the way, I was offered a chance to play basketball there many, many, many years ago. Really? Yeah. You should have taken it. I thought it was Indiana in Bloomington, and then I said no, because I was so above that. That's good quality basketball. Pennsylvania State Conference? I have no idea what it was.

I was always going to Maryland. It's what we at that moment in time could afford the in-state tuition of a public university. But anyway. You know, I didn't know this. What? Wow. Yeah. That you could have went back.

I mean, that's not trinity. college or some pot-on. Now let me just tell you, that's a decent level of college basketball. This was not at a high school. This was actually after my sophomore year in college, and I played in the summer league, and I played very well in the summer league, and I got like two or three D3 schools that offered me a chance to play basketball. The other one, who I'm forgetting now, it was, oh, it was Washington University in Virginia,

and then there was another one in Pennsylvania. God damn it, I'm forgetting. Give me some, you know, central PA cities right now because you know. Tudiata? Say again? Tuneata? No. Shippensburg?

Nope. Edinburgh? No. Oh, nothing else is coming to mind here. Hold on. God, I'm forgetting the name of this school and where it was. It's going to drive me crazy. Well, I'm already impressed that you had a chance to play ball in Indiana University of Pennsylvania

because, look, I grew up in East Strasbourg, and we used to go to East Strasbourg college basketball games, which is the same level, the same Pennsylvania State Conference. Indiana was on the Western Division, East Trousburg. King's College. Kings College. Kings College. That's the Wilkspar. Yes.

That's the other one. Yes. I just came up with it. That's again. Yeah. That's like University of State. Scranton level. They're like rival. No, it was D3. It was D3.

No, that's D3. Scranton is a D3 school. We won the D3 NCAA championship when I was there. All right. Jesus. Well, I mean, you know, I played high school basketball, but I was one of those guys that physically didn't develop

until I was 19, 20 years old. Like in high school, Tommy, I was 6'3 and, like, like 145 pounds. I was so, I was a rail, thin as a rail. And then, you know, after, you know, college dormitory food and lots of beer, two years later, I was like 6, 3, and 180, you know.

And so, and so there was a physical kind of confidence that came. But yeah, those were the, it was, it was Indiana in Pennsylvania, King's College, and I think it was Washington College in Virginia. It was Mary Washington College. That was the name of it. They had just gone co-ed in the 80s. Well, I'm already. I'm so impressed with this knowledge.

Okay. So what was I going to say? I was going to talk about Maryland last night. Yeah, I was going to talk about Maryland. So I was talking about Detroit Mercy, who was zero in 26 going into their game last night against I-U-P-U-I, not Indie. of Pennsylvania, but Indiana, Purdue in Indianapolis. It's like two schools combined as a school in Indianapolis.

They're in the Horizon League. Detroit was a five and a half point favorite as a zero in 2016. And it got actually some publicity that they were zero in 26. And so Steve Sands and Tim Murray send me this text. They said, have you seen this? Detroit Mercy is 0 in 26 and they're a five and a half point favorite. Of course I bet Detroit Mercy last night. The first score I saw was 11-0-0 Detroit.

They were up 15 at halftime. They won going away. They're now 1 in 26, and it was a winner. I will tell you that I was limited on the sized bet, but that was not necessarily because I've been winning, but because of, I don't know, there was a lot of activity on this game for whatever reason. Long story short, though, winner.

Not a smell test winner, but a college. the troops winner last night for those of you that got it in time because I know I got the podcast out late. But Maryland last night beat Iowa 78 to 66. And I talked about the Terps and the state of the Terps yesterday and I said this is a really important stretch. Not for Kevin Willard's job. He's got a seven-year deal. He's not going anywhere and Kevin can coach. Okay. But there is a real feeling of apathy as it relates to Maryland basketball right now. And I'm talking about among hardcore fans. And you saw that last night. Tommy, that crowd, I have never in all of my years of rooting for Maryland being a Maryland alum going to games, watching every single, I cannot

remember a crowd that sparse for a mid-February conference game. And I said yesterday, one of So it was terrible. The students didn't show up. It was embarrassing to watch on TV. Now, once again, they went out and they defended their asses off. They're the number five team in the country defensively per Ken Palm. They're number 181 now offensively. But their defense, and I give Willard all the credit in the world because when you're losing games and you can't score, it's hard to get guys to defend night in and night out. It's much easier to get guys to go out and play offense when you're bad on defense because offense is fun for most players. But man, they have fought and they have defended night in and night out. And Iowa is the highest scoring team in the Big Ten. Their two lowest outputs of the year are against Maryland and losses. It's a good win.

I'm glad they won. But I got to take a second here and just say, what are you doing, students? I understand the guy that is a big Maryland fan and they're not that good this year and he lives in Baltimore, lives in Gatorsburg. Is he going to trek it out to College Park to see Iowa who isn't that good either? But you're a student.

The student wall was empty behind the basket. Empty. I mean, you got, this is one. of the great home court advantages in college basketball when people show up. The listed attendance last night was 12,031. There's no chance there were 12,031. That's paid attendance.

The actual attendance, I would guess, I knew somebody who was there, they said maybe 7,000, maybe. Wow. So there is a real apathy about the product right now, but they won. And now they get a chance Saturday to play Illinois, the number 14 team in the country. They've already beaten them once. They beat them on the road in early January. And you've got to have a crowd out there Saturday. I am going to try to go.

I actually have a commitment Saturday night that I'd like to get too late so I can go to this game. It starts at 5.30. But the students, you've got to show up. I mean, one of the great advantages of Maryland basketball, is the student section and the student involvement in these games and how much of a home court advantage it provides. They get Illinois Saturday. If they win that game, now you are, you're now back into maybe another win or two

puts us on the bubble coming down the stretch. But, man, they are so good defensively. But it was embarrassing to watch a game in an empty, and what really appeared to be on television, a borderline empty arena in the middle of February with the students back in school. Got to show up Saturday. That's the number 14 team in the country,

and the team needs them. Did you want to talk about your column or not? Well, we could talk about a little bit. I wrote a column in today's Washington Times about transparent Ted Leonas and the whole arena issue and how he's reeling a little bit right now. And basically

the column was just to point out what a blow heart he is. You know, what, I mean, it's just stuff that he says. I don't even realize when he realizes the words that are coming out of his mouth.

Like he did it. I told one interview where he said that he was surprised at the level of outrage. This was his quote. I've been hurt, but that's my personality. I'm not your typical average business person. I care what people think.

I mean, come on. Like I said in the column, he must be an emotional wreck after owning the wizard for 14 years. You know, if he really cares what people think. You know, and this notion, he also declared that, you know, he talked about his constituency, the players, the employees, the union workers. and they're all going to benefit from this. I pointed out that, and no, I'm not taking a position on it one way or the other,

but I'm pointing out that Virginia is a right-to-work state, not considered great territory for union workers. So, you know, it's just so much that comes out of his mouth. It's just baloney, and he does not serve it. I'm sure he thinks he's the best salesman possible for what he's trying to do. I think he's helped contribute to what's becoming a growing roadblock for him right now. I totally. From his insensitive press conference to announce it to these interviews where he claims he's shocked at the outrage.

I mean, he's not helping himself. I totally agree with you. I actually talked about this on the podcast yesterday. Because I, what you just said is essentially what I said, I'm like, they, Ted and the people at Monumental in general, you know, because they've got another guy that goes on the air all of the time. His name's Tom Vans. Jim, something. Jim Van Sumphing. Yeah, Jim Van Sumphing.

And I said on the podcast yesterday, you know, they really could benefit from more. more self-awareness, more humility. You know, the idea, and you wrote about this, and I said it yesterday in the podcast, almost verbatim, I said, this discussion about this mammoth monumental brand that stretches from Delaware to Richmond, it just sounds so out of touch. It sounds... It really does. It sounds like they're just...

He's wishing it into existence. You know, when he talks about the championship brands that they've built, most of us are like, what are you talking about? They would say, well, we've got this esports team and the WNBA, the G League, whatever. Nobody cares about those teams. Your basketball team has been awful for a lot longer than you've owned the team. I'm not putting it all on him. You know, it was bad for 30 years before he took it over.

But it's like a little humility would go a long way. And I said that if somebody should, somebody that he trusts should say, if there were opinion poll numbers right now on owners in town with Dan gone, you'd be at the bottom. Oh, absolutely. I did a Twitter poll on the show when they did that press conference. I said, would you want Ted to own the nationals? 90% of the respondents said no.

So there is definitely a disconnect between that group and what they think of themselves and what the marketplace thinks of them. Speaking of a disconnect in my column, I talked about this little tour he did last week of all the TV stations and stuff. And I said, he was as about as transparent as George Costanza in a job interview. Right. I mean, again, I want to emphasize something as it relates to this specific issue, and you don't agree with me on this, and that's fine. I think the city is, was a massive problem in this, and he does have a responsibility. No, I agree with that. He's got a fiduciary responsibility to his shareholders, to the monumental shareholders, to his employees, to players, teams, his customers.

and D.C. wasn't helping him live up to that responsibility. So, you know, there was a bit of that when you think back about especially what's happened here, especially when he went on the TV tour last week, he's not happy. He's pissed that the city didn't do what they needed to do, and that for the first time he has sensed, people don't get it. I'm not the bad guy. You know, they are. Maybe that's exactly what he should have said.

I don't want to leave D.C. I've loved being D.C. Abe brought this team and revitalized the whole city. This is my hometown now. But I am not getting what I want from D.C. But that doesn't work when the mayor turns around and says, okay, we'll give you what you want. But they didn't give him what he wanted. They gave him $100 million short of what they actually wanted, and they gave him that at the 11th hour.

Right. you know a hundred million dollars i don't think is a deal breaker in that okay fair enough but the bottom line is they were only responsive when they realized he wasn't bluffing no he's not he's not he's not naive he knows when you're dealing with government yeah you're not dealing with the smartest people in the world sometimes you've got to exert some amount of pressure right yeah i but but at the same time man, going back to that press conference, and they're just, he doesn't have to present his case in a way that makes him out to be the smartest guy in the room

and the biggest winner in town like they always do. Because most of us only care about the hockey team and the basketball team. And the basketball team is irrelevant in the NBA. It is, the NBA's been growing and thriving in so many cities. It is an irrelevant franchise in the NBA. And his hockey teams on the verge of missing the postseason for two straight years, haven't won a playoff series in six years. And I'll tell you what, thank God for him that they got the cup in 2018.

Oh, yes. Because they were a perennial disappointment exiting in April and or May three rounds earlier than they had promised. Yes. All right. I agree. I got nothing else for you today, boss. All right. Maybe we'll tag some more of the karaoke from last night as old Johnny Tommy Panama.

Is it Tommy Panama? I'm forgetting that. Sammy Panama. Sammy Panama. I'm telling you, you better start consuming it for free because it's not going to be free forever. Well, wait a minute. Hold on. That means I'm going to have to renegotiate my deal with you. I'm going to have to include your appearance and at least one karaoke song every couple of weeks. All right. See you. Bye.

I'll see you. be out of this. Hey!