The Kevin Sheehan Show - Could Snyder Be On Way Out?

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

Kevin and Thom today on the fast-moving Skins' news of the weekend. Ron Rivera admitted the name will change from Redskins to one of two names being discussed. Three minority owners of the team want out and don't want to be in business with Dan Snyder anymore. Could this be the beginning of the end of Snyder's ownership reign? The boys discuss all of that and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, we're into do a podcast today. Just too much Redskins name-related news, fast-moving events from over the weekend. Tommy will join me here momentarily. But first, wind donation, all right? They're extending their offer of 50% off all window styles and no payments for two years with no money down. You'll pay nothing for 24 months. A lot of people that were planning to take vacations are taking some of that money, putting it into their home. You've probably done a lot to your home during this pandemic over the last.

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Just call them at 86690 Nation. Mention my name. Go to windownation.com, mention my name, and get a free estimate. Then you can decide what to do after that. Windonation, vest in your home right now. 50% off all styles of windows and no payments for 24 months with no money down. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. All right. I was scheduled to take this week off, but I wasn't going anywhere. And I promised you that there were big news stories and Redskins-related stories or D.C. Sports-related stories, I would be here because I'm home and I'm not doing much anyway. Tommy is with me.

We more likely than not won't do another podcast this week, but that's just a prediction that is almost certain to come up short as well, Tommy, given the fast and furious nature of what's been going on. But we're both here today on a Monday. Two additional big stories over the weekend, one that I think could be massive. And that sort of furthers from where we were on Friday. The story on Saturday from the post that Les Carpenter wrote about Ron Rivera, essentially admitting that they've been working on a new name for a couple of weeks now.

And there are two of them that he likes. You know, if there was any doubt about this review, well, Rivera pretty much ended that doubt. The name change is imminent. And then, really, I don't know if I would call it a bombshell of a story, but make no mistake, this thing's got more legs than you would even think it would have. The Redskins minority owners want out. Fred Smith, Dwight Schar, Bob Rothman, who combined own roughly 40% of the Redskins. They don't want to be a partner of Dan Snyders anymore. This story written in the Post last night by Liz Clark, Mark Maskey, and Liz Carpenter.

Originally, it was broken by Pro Football Talk. Okay. They broke it originally, and then the Post moved it forward with the addition of Rossman. Got it. I didn't realize until this morning, midway through the show, that Pro Football Talk had reported it first. But Tommy, I want to start with that because we addressed a lot of the, you know, a lot of the news related to the imminent change of the Redskins name and our Friday special podcast, if you will, the day before 4th of July. But this story from last night that Bob Rothman and Dwight Schar and Fred Smith, Fred Smith, not just the CEO, but the founder of FedEx, you know, most people know the story of Fred. Smith. They are not happy, not happy according to the Post being Dan Snyder's partner. They went out.

I think I mentioned on Friday, if I didn't already, that I had learned that Fred Smith has won it out for a while now. They own roughly 40% of the stake in the Redskins. To me, Tommy, this story could be the story of the next several months. Beyond the name, the ownership equity is going to be fascinating watch. If Fred Smith, Dwight Schar, and Bob Rothman can't find anyone who wants to be a minority owner next to Dan Snyder, then buying Snyder out becomes a possibility. If they want out, if they can't find a buyer with Snyder there, if they can't get a fair price with Snyder there, then taking Snyder out could become a priority for them. As an aside, We mentioned this Friday.

The league wouldn't mind a path that leads to Snyder exit. And I've been told that Snyder, much of his net worth is tied up in this team. And selling it now before the value of it sinks any further may not be crazy talk. I think this is a huge story. What do you think? It is. It's far bigger than the name. Listen, most Redskins fans, you could call them the Washington shitheads if they get a new owner.

right yeah yes i mean if they if they were guaranteed a new owner then they wouldn't care what you call them at this point so yeah this this is bigger than the name this this is this is a change in history a change a potential change in direction uh this is the wicked witch is dead this is the house falling on the wicked witch i mean oh my god the image of that Oh, my God, just to see the wicked witch of the West seat and seeing that house just fall in just the pointed, the towed shoes just sticking out. I mean, this is just amazing.

And again, I think the scenario you put forward is still kind of a long shot only because I thought, even though apparently they've been trying to sell their minority shares, it's really hard to believe. that they have not been able to sell those shares. I mean, a minority share in an NFL team is not the majority share, but it's a ticket into the club. David Teper wound up owning the Carolina Panthers. He had a minority share of the Pittsburgh Steelers. This is how you get in with the boys.

They get to know you, and then when a team becomes, becomes available, you become their prime candidate. So I just find it like stunning. And to me, it speaks to the toxicity of Dan Snyder that nobody wants to buy in. Of course. You know, the name and the brand restart, you know, is not going to fix any problems.

The real problem has been and is the owner. You know, as a professional football owner, he's a loser. You know, he might be a great husband, father, friend. I'm not speaking about him personally, and I've heard great things about his family. I'm speaking about him as an NFL owner. He's the worst. And based on conversations I've had in recent days and a lot of the other reporting, it's more than just being the worst owner in the league.

He's not well respected. He's not well liked in league circles. I think I mentioned this unfair. Friday that I had a conversation with someone who's close to the team situation with the league in recent years. You know, the commissioner and the owners have had it with him. This franchise under his watch has become an embarrassment for the league. And now with the name issue back again, you know, they have Snyder and Redskin fatigue.

And this time, Tommy, unlike the past times, we've got key corporate sponsors, you know, backing up this feeling with, hey, we're going to pull money on big deals from you if this doesn't happen. That hadn't happened recently. You know, this is a toxic situation. We've all understood that that was it for years. But now we've got the added storyline of the minority owners, Fred Smith, Bob Rothman, Dwight Schar. You know, if you've ever seen a shot of the owner's box during games. It's even money that one, if not two or three of those guys are in the box with Dan for these home games. You know, they were the second group of minority owners after Fred Drasner and Mort Zuckerman and a few others, you know, were on board with Dan from the

beginning back in 1999. These guys jumped in, Tommy, 2002, 2003, something like that, and they've been on board ever since. FedEx and Fred Smith, you know, committed over two. $200 million to naming the stadium and being a significant corporate partner of the Redskins, and Fred Smith has had it with him. And these other minority owners have as well. I said to you on Friday, I mean, on some level, isn't it possible just because he can't possibly be having any fun owning this team? His fan base despises him.

Many in the league have a problem with him. His minority owners now won out. And potentially he's not in the greatest of financial condition that he's been in, you know, during his professional life. I think, Tommy, I don't think it's crazy talk at all. The way it would work might be potentially for all of them to sell their stakes simultaneously to a whole new ownership group. Or this could be some sort of coup. Like there's a lot involved here. There really is.

You know, from what I've learned, the league really washed their hands of Snyder with the Lafamina purge. Yes, big, big, they loved Lafamina and they were disgusted what happened here. Yeah, I mean, he came from the league. They saw that as, if not like a George. young situation where the Giants were terrible for about 15 years, and Pete Roselle put George Young in charge of the team. That was a football operation team. This was a business side operation, and the league, you know, felt very confident and

very good about sending L'Avina down here to help fix what had been, you know, one of their story star franchises. And the way they were ceremoniously, unceremoniously. seriously cut loose. Just really, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for the league. Nobody loved Snyder before that, but their level of disgust reached a new low after that. It's really interesting the turn of events here over the last few days. Like you just said, all of us, to a certain degree, have understood that he's not super well-respected or well-liked.

hasn't been for a long time in league circles. You know, Jerry's always been there sort of to protect him over the years. I don't even know if that's true anymore. The corporate sponsors never felt enough pressure from customers, from investors, shareholders, et cetera, to really back up any thoughts they had about Snyder until, you know, until George Floyd was murdered. And all of this stuff became much more. a part of a conversation again. But when you get this story about the three minority owners

wanting out, and I've heard that Fred Smith is wanted out for a while, and you know that the league's preference would be that Dan not be an owner of this particular franchise either, this is going to be a sit back and watch what happens, you know, few months because, again, I mean, he could be defiant. He could be, you know, F everybody. And I don't think there's a way for them to take the ownership from him or force him to sell. You know, it's not a Jerry Richardson situation. It's not, you know, a Donald Sterling situation. There's none of that going on that we know of.

I know you've suggested over the years that that's the path to a return to glory, but, you know, there isn't anything out there that he's a super bad human being in terms of those kinds of issues. No, we have, my my trifecture was scandal, suspension, sale. The three uss. That was my trifecta, yeah. Yeah, it's just, it would be. really remarkable if this all led to him selling his majority stake, if not his entire steak. Again, I mean, like, just think about it. At this point, you know, what is the allure of being an

owner when there isn't any fun involved other than being able to sit on your yacht in the south of France and have George Clooney and Matthew McConaughey say, yeah, this guy right here, he's He's one of 32. He's one of 32 owners. He's a big shot. I mean, other than that, I don't know. And then we had the story from Saturday in the Post, the Les Carpenter's story about Ron Rivera. You know, Ron Rivera talked to the Post. Now, just so everybody knows, if you listen to the radio show this morning, I did, I had conversations with the Redskins yesterday and last night about trying to get Ron Rivera on the show. Tommy, I was like, if he talked to the Post, Why won't he come on radio? Well, you know, they made him available to the post. You know, I don't know what to say.

Oh, here's what happens, Kevin. When people start seeing their words in print, they get a little freaky. That's what happened sometimes. Well, what do you mean? When they see their words in print and they say, oh, you know, maybe that wasn't a good idea. Maybe I should shut up. Well, you know, that's fine. That's fine. But the point is that it wasn't from a lack of effort as it's never been in the past.

But if you missed the story, Ron Rivera told the post, he's been working with Dan Snyder in recent weeks to come up with a new name for the organization. And he hopes that it can happen within the next two months. Here's some of the quotes. If we get it done in time for the season, it would be awesome. He said that he and Snyder have been talking about a name change from more than a month, roughly around the time. Tribal leaders, politicians, and others started their latest push for Snyder to reverse his longstanding policy and eliminate a name that is a dictionary defined racial slur. He added that Snyder started speaking in earnest with NFL officials about the move two and a half weeks ago and suggested the owner is ready to make the move. He said, quote, we came up with a couple of names, two of them I really like, closed quote, although he declined,

to reveal what those two names were. Rivera said that he believes the most important criteria for a new name is that it's respectful of Native American culture in traditions and is also a tribute to the military. And he said, quote, we want to do this in a positive way. We want to make sure that the name won't be a joke, closed quote. So there you go. That was from Ron Rivera on the 4th of July. He was also asked Tommy about the comments, which came roughly a week ago on that radio station in Chicago, 670 to score, where he said, now is not the time on the name. And he said that he didn't address it directly on that radio program in another city because, quote, that's meant for the D.C. area.

That is our conversation, closed quote. Well, then that's very, whether he's telling a truth or not, that's a very good answer. I think that is a good answer. You're right. I didn't actually think about whether or not that's a good answer. That's a very savvy answer. It shows an understanding of media, and that's very savvy of him. And that's very good if you're a Redskins fan, because apparently right now,

this is the only guy calling the shot in the organization. This is it. One of the things we learn from Reno's post stories is that Dan Snyder doesn't have a lot of sounding boards for opinion. And that's because he drove away most of the sounding board he really wants, is the one who said, yes, Dan, you're absolutely right. And that's a nice yacht you got, too. But right now, it's the guy who was hired in December is in charge of president of president. pretty much everything. And, yeah, some of the things that came out of that story about the current state of the organization

basically, you know, indicates more than not that it is a bit of a mess right now, that there is a need for another team president type of person in the organization. Of course, after Lafamina, who's going to take the job? You know, Bruce had it for obvious reasons. But some of the quotes that came out of that post story, quote, according to two people who work directly with Snyder and Redskins issues, his decision-making style is driven more by personal whim than by expert counsel. He goes through his Rolodex and calls random people until he gets an opinion he likes and he follows that.

Set another person with five years of direct experience. He seeks advice, but he only hears what he wants to hear. his favorite phrase is you don't know what you're talking about, closed quote. And this is why, you know, he's attracted the people that he's attracted over the years. It's remarkable. And again, I've mentioned this many times. He out kicked the coverage in hiring Ron Rivera. Ron Rivera, I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast.

Somebody had told me, Ron Rivera wanted back into the NFL so badly because he felt like he was so wronged in Carolina. And this was the first and the immediate. opportunity that ensured that he was going to be coaching right away. I don't know if the Cowboys or the Giants would have ultimately hired him. Obviously, Carolina wasn't. But, yeah, I mean... Well, you know, our good friend and legal advisor, Neil and Rockville, came up with a great idea for Snyder, for a team president.

Mike Rizzo. He'd be great. only has, who's only got four months left on his contract, I might point out. The National CM has four months left on the job. He'll be available come October. Boy, I would, I would advise Mike Rizzo, you hold out for so much money and you can make back everything the learner should have been paying you for years. Yeah.

So, that was a pretty funny thing I thought. Yeah. that Neil texted to us. But, you know, I mean, do you think that what's more likely they sell or they take over? I'm leaning towards somehow Snyder ends up selling his steak. I don't know how it works, but I am leaning towards this is what the league wants. This is the position he's in, a position of his own doing. that he possibly at this point with the name going.

He can't be having any fun. I don't know why I'm leaning in that direction. Just a gut feeling that there's something big here, that there is something going on here that maybe has been going on for a little while now, perhaps initiated by someone like Fred Smith, with the league's backing, and sort of a back, you know, back,

you know, back way, you know, a wraparound coup, you know, attempt. The league is embarrassed by this franchise, and it's a critical franchise for the league. And they don't want to be embarrassed anymore. And I think they've come to the conclusion like many of us have that Ron Rivera, you know, Kyle Smith, it doesn't matter. As long as he owns the team, it's never going to work. and it's going to continue to be an embarrassment. There's no team that's been a bigger embarrassment to the league in recent years than the Redskins. None.

I mean, look at the crowds that they have had. I mean, look, I mean, this is, again, this was my Surgeon General morning. Every time I talk about the Redskins, either on the radio or on the podcast, no matter who they hired, I'd say, now remember, it really doesn't matter who coaches the team. It really doesn't matter who the general manager is, as long as Stan Snyder is the owner. And now everybody seems to have finally come to that same conclusion. I'm just amazed it took so long. I think he's going to stay in his majority owner. I do.

I think this is the most important thing to him. I don't think he's ever had fun, you know, like what's her name, what uh, what, uh, show crow saying, I don't think he's ever had fun a day in his life, to be honest with you. Wow,

we get a Cheryl Crow reference here. I don't think fun is, is really going to factor into this. I think desperation, power, and ego are going to drive his decision. And there's a lot of ego, even in being the disgrace owner

of the Washington Red. In other words, what's, what's worth being hated, or being invisible for a guy with an ego? I think that the financial situation is going to play a role in this. And I don't know the specifics here. I've been told that much of his net worth is tied up into the franchise. And if they're ever going to get $4 billion for the franchise,

now is the time to get $4 billion for the franchise. I think if he were one of the true wealthy owners, and it's all relative, right? But if you were one of the true wealthy owners in sports, that maybe you would be correct. But I think that there is some financial stuff here in play. I just want to just say to you, you know, like I just wrote down three things that are among my all-time favorites when it comes to talking about this team, which, as you know, you've angered so many people over the years. but I've always been highly entertained by, you know, the Surgeon General's warning on the team. But my two favorite in recent years was when Tommy said about Brian Lafamina. I mean, this is a day after he was hired.

Don't buy rent. You said, I mean, literally within days of his hiring, because remember, that's when we launched the podcast. It was right around then. You said, I would bet he doesn't even make it the entire first season. And he didn't. He was ousted in December. And then my favorite, though, is DJ Sweringer. The day that they cut him.

And you said about Sweringer, if they really wanted to punish him, they would have made him stay. That's one of the great all-time lines. and I can tell you, you really with that one, piss some people off at the park. Like, they thought that was over the top, but it was brilliant, and it was so true. Like, if you're really going to punish people in this organization, you don't cut them, you force them to stay. Oh, my God. I thought I lived over the top. I thought that's where I lived.

You know? Yeah. Let me ask you this, Kevin. Yeah. The name is a done deal. You know, the people have come to that realization. There's still a few holdouts. There's going to be some angry people.

But in all, I think, the franchise has hit such a low that the damage will be mitigated by the benefits of a brand chain and the merchandising and everything that comes with it. The other thing is, though, with all these reports, Redskins fans have to be getting. on the edge of their seat saying, well, he's going to get rid of the team. He's not going to be the owner. He's not going to be the owner. And what happens if he stays on his owner? I don't know that everybody's saying that right now. I think we're saying it. And apparently pro football talk also said it. Oh, I mean, that's a snowball that that's a snowball that King Kong couldn't stop rolling down the hill. That he's not going to be the owner of the team. But you know what, Tommy? this is not the jump that the name change or even the minority stakeholders wanting out.

Not everybody's made that leap yet. I mean, I think the conversation about it is going to start to enlighten people that this is in play. And you're right, if it really snowballs and all of a sudden there's this expectation that he's going to sell the team and that he doesn't, it could be, it could really backfire. It'd be incredibly disappointing. It also could maybe snow. Here's the thing. He really doesn't pay attention to the media and hasn't over the years.

The pro football talk, you know, Florio, take it for what it's worth. But they did write a story yesterday because after I talked about this this morning, somebody sent this to me and said, did you see this? And I'm like, no, but I've seen people tweeting about it. But this Florio story, you know, about the new name being the beginning, not the end of changes in Washington, is that some are wondering whether Washington's name change will be a precursor to Snyder selling the team.

And then they talked about the, hold on for a second, the recent story from the Washington Post regarding Snyder's absence from the organization and reliance not on employees of the team, but a small circle of friends speaks not to dysfunction, but to disengagement. It's reasonable to wonder whether the disengagement could lead eventually to the,

divesting of the ownership. And then they've got the Rothman-Sharr, Fred Smith stuff. This would be obviously a very positive development out of all of this. And you're right, if it doesn't happen, maybe this is going to really gain steam here in the next couple of days, and then it would be a big disappointment if it didn't happen. I don't know. Yeah.

You know. I think it would. Yeah. I think it would for a lot of people. You know, circling back to just the last several days in like big picture form, I am surprised that this has gone the way it's gone as quickly as it's gone. I probably shouldn't be given just everything, you know, that's going on in the country right now. It's such a fascinating time that we are living on, living in. It's light on thought, research, facts, debate, heavy on action right now.

And, you know, it's a personal perspective thing on whether or not the actions resulted in more positive than negative or vice versa. And I'd imagine that a lot of what comes out of the year 2020 will be good and will be good for those that need some good. And I'm all for that. And some of what comes out of these times won't be. It's really hard to predict, but the thing that's annoying to me about the last several days in particular is the way this is being described again. It's almost as if Tommy, and I don't, this isn't scientific, I'm just guessing. But it feels like 80% of the stories and columns written on this over the last week. haven't even mentioned that this is a debatable complex issue.

I'm annoyed at that again. I'm annoyed at those that sounds so definitive and act like they just contributed to writing the biggest racial wrong of all time. Because that's not true. You know, don't get me wrong, all right? If using the word offends a large group of people, you know this. We've talked about this many times. I'm open-minded to this conversation.

prove it to me with something other than hyperbole, and I'm listening. But the constant and once again resurfacing of the comparison of the R word to the N word, you know, no mention of any of the polling that's overwhelmingly indicated over the years that Native Americans not only don't have a problem with it, they're proud of it. You know what I had forgotten? I had forgotten this poll from just a year ago, just a year ago this poll. And I didn't mention this on radio this morning, and I heard Galdi talking about it at the beginning. of his show. I totally forgot about this poll where Native Americans were polled and asked to choose

from a list of 40 emotions to describe how they felt about the team. And proud was number one. Proud was. I just, years from now, they're so convinced and they've written so convincingly the last few days about this despicable and shameful slur. that's about to finally be laid to rest. And years from now, Tommy, people are going to read from these past few days and the days to come, and they're going to believe that, you know, this vile name of a football team was equivalent to the N-word. It isn't. We all know it isn't.

But, you know, it's the few Johnny come lately that have been writing about this, I don't even think they know about the Washington Post poll. We're nine out of ten Native Americans. were not offended by the name. That was just four years ago. And by the way, I'm sick of hearing about the methodology was flawed. It's the Washington Post. Not Fox News, not OAN.

The Washington Post commissioned this poll. Nine out of ten Native Americans said, no, the team name's not offensive. Am I really supposed to believe, Tommy, that the Washington Post used flawed methodology, but posted the results anyway? Like, that's a bit of a reach. Listen, I don't need a poll for this.

Nine out of ten people who work for the Washington Post wanted that poll to go the other way. Of course! So if there was flawed methodology, they're going to post those results? That's absurd. And it just happens to be the same outcome at the Annenberg poll 14 years earlier. They were absolutely convinced was outdated.

This was written in the post story that described the results of that poll on May 19th, 2016. I went and got it last night. Quote, for more than a decade, no one has measured what the country's 5.4 million Native Americans think about the controversy. Their responses to the post were unambiguous, few objected to the name, and some voiced admiration, closed quote. And here we are in this unbelievable title wave the last few days, and I'm telling you, I'm not seeing any mention that. that this has been a highly complex, debatable topic, where actually the data has suggested consistently

that those that matter most don't think it's offensive. Okay, Kevin. Kevin. Let me just mention this one last thing, because you're going to appreciate this, because you have grandkids. I thought about this, about how this is being documented right now in written form. 20 years from now,

my grandkids are going to read these columns and stories, from this past weekend and the ones that will be forthcoming. And they're going to think that Grandpa used to root for a team with a horribly racist name. And they're going to say, he's such a good guy. How could he have done that? I mean, it's really, this is not accurate. It's not an accurate depiction of what this conversation has been or should have been. But I thought about this a lot in the past week or so.

It's one thing. It's a fight not worth fighting anymore, Kevin. You do realize that. I don't have the passion for it, Tommy. And I'll tell you what, seriously, some people are really mad at me. I've gotten some of the ugliest tweets since our podcast on Friday of I thought you'd be the guy that would continue to fight the fight. I can only tell you how I really feel. I'm not as passionate about this shit anymore.

And it's all because of the owner and the team and the performance and everything else. And fatigue, as you mentioned. And there's a weariness. Yeah, there's a weariness that comes with all this. The other thing is, I think this is the basic problem. And this could be very simplistic and stupid, but I've been both before. You have a team whose name includes the word skin, the color of someone's skin. just that notion that the color of someone's skin would be the name of a team,

I just think just drives people nuts. Because the color of your skin is not supposed to matter. And it just reminds people. I think that's what it is. I understand that. I think it's the basic thing. I think it's just a basic, well, you know, it's the color. It's a team based on the color.

of somebody's skin when, you know, the color of your skin should not matter at all. I understand that, but it's not for woke liberals to, you know, to answer on Native American sensibilities. It's for them to answer. And they have. But they can be offended by a name that has nothing to do with them, but just it mentions the color of somebody's skin. I understand how they can be offended. It's not made. per se? Again, I don't care what the team is called. And I agree with a lot of what you say about the actual truth data of how Native Americans feel. But I'm trying to get, I mean, because look, there's a lot of smart people who I respect who think this name is the worst thing in the

world. Okay? So what's the core? What are they getting at? What is really bothering them? And I just think it's the color, the color of someone's skin being a team name. You know, there are people that I like and respect a lot, too, that have been very adamant. I agree with you. But I don't think it's that. By the way, I know people that think it's that, but I think for the most part it is this thought that because it is a dictionary-defined slur that just automatically means that this group, this culture is just incredibly offended by the name. And that they're there to protect that. And they're there to help it out and help them out and speak on their behalf, which, as you know,

I kind of feel in many ways over the years, especially with, you know, all of these high schools, Native American high schools having the name and saying don't change it. polling and all that. I think that there's a little bit of arrogance in that, but that's my own view. I do think just taking it a step further, that the owner has been such a dunce when it's come to talking about this issue. You know, a lot of the polling and a lot of the high schools, which has been a major disconnect, even with people Tommy who say what you just said, which is it's still

describing a skin color. supposed to care about skin color. I think one of the real big disconnects for those that feel strongly for whatever reason that this is so offensive is that you know you've had these Native American high schools saying no, we're proud of this name and they're our favorite team and don't tell us what we should be offended by. You know you've had that over the years which automatically means that it's not equivalent to the N-word but we've gone down that path before but Snyder's always been able to with all of that out there

sort of keep the wolves at bay. But he kept feeding them, you know, with one arrogant, you know, impulsive thought and quote after another. He's never been good at letting sleeping dogs lie. It's always about winning something other than a football game on Sundays. When he told the USA Today in 2013, we'll never change the name. It's that simple. Never.

You can use caps as in capital letters. You talk about being something, that was so antagonistic unnecessarily. Like, it just was stupid. But the all-timer was three years ago. When the Supreme Court ruled that the members of that Asian-American rock band, the slants, had the right to call themselves by a disparaging name. That was a huge win for the Redskins on their trademark rights.

It was a precedent. It ended completely the effort by some Native American groups and others to strip the Redskins of their trademarks. That fight was over. The Redskins had won it. And instead of lying low and winning with some humility and grace, the skins put out a press release saying that they were, quote, thrilled with the result by the Supreme Court. Translation, they were thrilled that the Supreme Court ruled

that they were allowed to call themselves by a disparaging name. I mean, how stupid can they be? You know, I just think that they've, the bottom line is he's, there's been so much contempt for him. You know, he's never done anything to gain the benefit of the doubt, you know, ability. Because every single time this has come up, instead of acting like he's been there or Tommy, using those momentum moments to further the conversation, to skillfully articulate things. like, hey, maybe it's time, you know, with all of this information for a second non-pejorative definition in the dictionary. You know, he could have reached out in those moments had he been a skilled, thoughtful, you know, communicator and carved out maybe a different path. I'm not going to say

that it would have made a big difference, but being antagonistic wasn't the way, you know, especially in light of how he was damaging the football operation with such poor management, you know, a day at a time. We talked about this on Friday. The brand's so diminished, the fan base is so eroded that you can actually now make the case that a total restart makes sense today more than it ever has. I know, and you understand this because we've had this conversation so many times, those that have thought over the years that changing the name would be a good business move years ago, we're always dead wrong. They know nothing about marketing, branding, the association between strong brand and franchise values. But now, that strong brand isn't so strong.

You know, the customer base has shrunk, attendance, TV numbers decreasing at alarming rates in recent years. We've seen it. The brand's been tarnished by the performance, by the record, by the shenanigans. You know, the name's been a distant down-the-list reason as to why many have stopped showing up or watching on TV. But anyway, the real problem's him. Go ahead.

Yeah, let's get personal here for a minute. If he sells the team, does he have to leave town? No, come on. Why not? What would be the point of being here? Well, he's from here. This is his hometown. I know, but what would be the point?

What would be the point of staying? He'd be so embarrassed. He'd be so ashamed and he's capable of shame. He's the owner who destroyed the most valued the most value sports franchise in the history of the nation's capital and then had was forced to sell it. There's not many more embarrassing ownership endings than that. What if he stood up and said, I've been the problem. I apologize for everything that's happened.

It was never my intention. I grew up rooting for this team and loving this team. I was a young person when I purchased the team. I made a lot of mistakes. I tried many different ways, including, you know, stepping back, and nothing's worked. I am heartbroken that the franchise has become what it's become, and I'm going to sell my steak in this franchise in hopes that a new owner can take it back to where it was, and I'll continue to be a fan of the team. What if he handled it that way?

Just when I think the wiring in your brain finally got straight, You'd do something like that. You say something like that. Like, what if? You know? That would be the way to handle it, though, wouldn't it? Of course it would. If he knew that, he wouldn't be in the situation in the first place.

That's true. That's true. Self-awareness. God, you know, you don't have much. But self-awareness for most people, it's such an important character. characteristic. It's so important. Yeah. You know, overall, like this thing's gotten carried away, I just hate Tommy that it's

described in a way that makes, you know, those of us that have made it a part of our lives emotionally, you know, that we're described as having hateful hearts. You know, that's just not true. And if people, people on that side, And some of those people, like you said, I know some of these people that feel that way. And some of these people don't take it to that degree. But, God, some of what I've read and heard this weekend, it's like they're, like I was thinking about just the history and the nostalgia, you know, for our team. It's allowed people, you know, it's allowed. You can't take away the memories.

I can't right now, Tommy, for the life of me, see myself feeling guilty about talking about the red screen. winning Super Bowl 17 on Rigo's fourth and one run. I'm just not, I just can't see myself offending people with my personal nostalgia. You know, I'm convinced some people will be offended. I know that, but I don't think you fans out there like me have to feel guilty about being nostalgic about the team's past. Some are going to try to make you out to be, you know, like an SS officer waxing poetic about crystal-knocked, you know?

They're going to make it into you cheering for Dexter Manley knocking out Danny White's the equivalent of voting for George Wallace, you know, in 1968 and 72. Sorry, that's just not true. Your passion for the history of this franchise is going to be exaggerated. It is. It's going to be described in some exaggerated terms. Get ready for it. But I'm not going to accept that.

I don't think I'll need to. Well, look, I'll never think of you that way, buddy. It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks of you. You know, I was thinking the ramifications of the name, the little ramifications, all the little ramifications. The Redskins fight song. You've got to have to come up with a new song. Okay. Hail to the Redskins.

I mean, that's such a part of being at the stadium. them. Even when they'd be getting beat 35 to nothing and they score a touchdown, people would stand up and sing it. They'd sit there and sing it, hail to the Redskins. No more of that.

I tell you what? How many people will stand up and sing hail to the Redskins even if they do change their name? Oh, oh, Tommy. People are going to have the people that go to, this could be an immediate boost to attendance with people, coming back to the stadium with Redskins gear all over their person.

But, you know, I really actually, I say that, and at the same time, I think that there's just so much either checked out or apathy that someone won't be able to get enough energy together to go out. First of all, we're not going to have anybody in the stadium in 2020, more likely than not. I know what I wanted to ask you. You know, you have contended over, for a period of time now, that name change or not, D.C. doesn't want to deal with Dan Snyder on a new stadium at the RFK site. You know, a lot of people think that the news that came out last week, the Liz Clark story,

no name change means no chance. Now that there's going to be a name change, you still believe that, you know, especially with Jack Evans gone, that there's still not going to be a lot of. of support for a Redskins return to the RFK site? There's no, there's no D.C. Council support for a stadium for the team, no matter what their name. The name was an easy crutch for them to flex their muscles, but there's no taste to entertain a stadium by this particular council at this point. The mayor, I think, is pretty much abandoned it.

I mean, I've been told by people who know this administration well that it's dead in the war, no matter what the name is. Now, if the team gets sold and everyone has this scenario where Jeff Bezos winds up owning the team, look, anything is possible if you're Jeff Bezos, right? Anything is possible. Well, Jeff Bezos wouldn't even need the city's support for it. You know, he wouldn't need money for infrastructure. He would be able to do it.

Yeah, he'd be able to do it the Stan Cronky way. So, yeah, I mean, given who would become the owner, that could change. That's a big difference than the name. But you still have, and it's important, that neighborhood is vehemently against any stadium on the RFK site. They wanted to be a recreation site. which part of it is already turned into at this point. And like I told you this before, and you know this, that neighborhood is now full of people who work on Capitol Hill, people who work on Case Street. Million-dollar homes.

Lawyers who know how to fight. They know how to fight these kind of fight. So it would, no matter who owns the team, they're going to have a fight with that neighborhood around. RFK. And again, like I've said before, no matter where a stadium is, D.C., Virginia, Maryland, no one is paying Dan Snyder to build a stadium. He would have to pay for it out of his own pocket. The best he can hope for is that government paid for the infrastructure, or as they say, the stuff under the stadium. Right. You know, the roads, the ramps, things like that. Any stadium deal that's been discussed. As far as the government entity is concerned, that's as far as they go.

Sider would have to pay for it out of his own pocket no matter what. Interesting. I think that, but Tommy, that's something that not a lot of people, you know, know, other than the people that have listened to you or read you. I read a lot of this, you know, over the weekend, or I got a lot of this from various friends. He needs to hold out. He needs to hold out for our K, city paying for a lot, a Super Bowl within three years, you know, after the stadium's built. You know, he's got to hold out for a lot of the – uh-uh. That's not the environment with him. No one wants to help him with anything.

Nobody does. If he doesn't change the name, they're going to lose corporate sponsors. He's going to feel it like he's never felt it before. It's not like he's got all this leverage right now. He could have had leverage a couple of years ago. He could have. A football stadium is not a baseball stadium. There's not events there.

There's not a game 81 times a year. Right. The benefits, the financial benefits to a community of a football stadium are a lot less than they are for an arena where there's basketball and hockey. every night and a baseball stadium. So the financial benefit to boost the neighborhood like that is not there for a football stadium at this point. So that's a big problem as well.

And there was another point, but God Almighty actually got it. Well, you know, I've said this before about the stadiums of the future that they're not going to look like Jerry World. They're going to look like half of Jerry World. That, you know, and by the way, things like pandemics and the health crisis that we've gone through will make this even more probable that you may not need the same amount of space. You may not need the same infrastructure. You know, a 50,000 seat smaller stadium may be, you know, the future in sports, in large stadium sports.

I don't know. I did want to say about the team name that I do think, and I told you on Friday, that Warriors was his preference. But, you know, there's pushback against anything having to do with Native American imagery, although they could certainly turn that into a military nod. One of the things that I think Snyder and that original American foundation that they created when they went out to over 100 reservations, I think he does feel, or those in the organization, including former players that were out there, feel this responsibility to these Native American reservations that they visited to keep, you know,

that culture highlighted. You know, they didn't get pushback. I mean, the polling was very similar to what they saw when they went out to 100 reservations. Is that, you know, the worst reaction they got was indifference. And the indifference usually stemmed from this name thing is just not a big deal to me. Here are our big issues. But Kevin, Kevin, they did such a, they did such, I'm very suspect of all that, because they did such a terrible job of telling the world what they were doing.

I know. I agree with you. They were terrible. I agree. I mean, they didn't need to invite players. They needed to invite reporters. That's who they needed to invite. Yeah.

You know? That's a good point. I mean, I didn't even think about it from that standpoint. They did a terrible job of getting that message out. I mean, it just just fell with a thud. You know, if they had this great opportunity, they should have made the most of it. But, again, there's a level of arrogance thinking,

well, we don't have to. Yeah. We don't care what they think. No, that's true. That's such a good point because every person that went on those things, and, you know, we were still owned at the time the radio station was. So I talked to many, several people who went on a lot of those trips. Cooley went on a bunch of those trips.

And it was every single time, it was like the name is just not an issue. Now, and I was like, well, what was the reaction? The reaction was like more times than not. It was like they were so excited to meet some of their football heroes that were out there. And that, you know, worst case, it was just sort of indifference. They're dialed in on all the problems that they have. But that's a real, look, like everything, right, from, They take something that maybe has a huge opportunity, and they don't get the most out of it.

They don't leverage it the way it should be leveraged. Yeah. One last thing. The thing popped into my head about the statement. Yeah, go ahead. No, you go ahead. Okay. And again, I'm repeating myself from Friday's podcast.

But this is really the biggest one of all. Jack Kent Cook had pre-super Bowls. three of them. He couldn't get the stadium built in the district for 10 years. He couldn't get the stadium built in Virginia. Look where he wound up. That was cook. Yeah, no, that's people forget that, and you're so right.

I mean, that should have been the biggest no-brainer for the city of all time. The most popular team in the history of the city, a winner, one of the most popular teams in all of sport, representing the District of Columbia in a super positive way, and he couldn't get it done with any of the mayors that he dealt with, most notably Sharon Pratt Kelly. I mean, that's the one that always pointed to. They always blame it on her, but the talk started with Marion Barry, and they went nowhere with Barry either. Right. Back to the name here for a second. So it certainly seems like this is on some sort of fast track. And remember the team statement from last week said they're going to involve, you know, they're going to reach out

to alumni. I'm paraphrasing at this point because I don't, I forget what it was, but it was like, they're going to reach out to, you know, the league. They're going to reach out to, you know, the league. They're going to reach out to the community. They're going to get all this feedback, you know, in this big review. And meantime, Rivera says on Saturday, you know, they've got it down to two names, You know, so this thing is obviously being fast-tracked, which, by the way, is never a good idea when something needs to be vetted, seriously vetted. Because if you pick the wrong name and have to go change it again in a year, I mean, that would be so Redskins. You don't want to pick New Coke. I mean, to be honest with you, I think that they need to just completely.

I mean, I would love for them to be able to continue to nod, you know, give a nod to Native Americans and at the same time maybe simultaneously a nod to the military with a name like Warriors. I like the, you know, the alliteration of it. I, I, but I'm not, by the way, I'm really not hung up on this name thing now. Not at all in terms of with the new one or the logo. I'll leave that to other people who really get wrapped up into that stuff. But I, God, man, they could, don't you think that they should steer clear of anything that could be deemed to be controversial at any point? You have to understand, you know, right now the climate, maybe what the climate will be for several years to come. Hell, Washington may be, you know, eliminated from all of this when all is said and done.

The red tails, I heard a lot about the red tails. In fact, learned a little bit more about it yesterday, in particular about it, you know, representing and the Tuskegee Airmen who fought in World War II, that that would be a great name. I'd still bet on Warriors. I think it's what Snyder believes is his responsibility to back a promise that he's made to Native Americans who have appreciated the name Redskins. They don't want to be forgotten, and Snyder believes that Warriors ensures that they won't be. I think that's still the leader in the clubhouse, but man, you know, these things, when teams do this, Tommy, it takes a year to two years to pull this off the right way. Yeah, and if you do put it the right way, you can make a lot of money off of it. If it's done the right way, it could be financially very lucrative.

It could be, yes, and right now, and there's, again, there's no better time for it because they've lost much of their customer base. This would be a chance to gain either customers back or create a whole new customer base from scratch. In fact, I was thinking about this over the weekend in many ways. They should be now targeting a much younger demo, a demo that an age group that has never ever embraced the Redskins despite living here because of their performance on the field. I mean, my kids are not huge redskin fans. You know, they're NFL fans, they're football fans, and they know it's been important to me, so it's always been fun for them to hang out and watch games with me,

and they get into it, but they're not die-hards. You know, appealing to a younger demo with a whole new name, logo, color scheme, I bet you somebody's made the case to Snyder that that's the direction he should go in. That, you know, honoring the past with the same colors with burgundy and gold isn't necessarily crucial. It's about attracting a whole new audience that's never rooted for this football team before. Wouldn't surprise me if that's been pitched. I don't think he'll do that.

I think he'll stick with burgundy and gold. I think, you know, they'll try to come up with. the name like Warriors that continues to honor Native Americans, which is what they have been doing for years in their minds eye. But, you know, these things get researched. They get vetted, and we're on a fast track right now, aren't we? Yeah. Yes, we are. I think it would be best just to be out of the Native American icon business. I think you might be right about that. Yeah, I just just get out of the business. You know, I mean, a football team, look, the reality is George Marshall named them the Redskins

because he had named them the Braves in Boston in their first year because they played in the same football stadium, baseball stadium as the Boston Braves. They moved the next year to Fenway Park where the Red Sox played in order to keep the The brave motif, he changed it to Redskins. That's how this all started. Right. I mean, they may have evolved into this, you know, what they saw it was some kind of noble gesture. But just get out of the business.

Get out of it. You know, it's funny that you just brought that up. I think I agree with you. I think that they probably should just get out of this so that they don't have to deal with this again. I mean, you're going to have to come up with something that can't be perceived down the road as controversial, and that could take some time. I mean, I don't know. I mean, it seems like almost any name you could probably trace back to something that could be controversial.

But you just said something that reminded me of something I talked about this morning with a call that came in. And that is, you know, just sort of the bullshit of this has always been about honoring Native America. and that, you know, Redskin fans have always been so proud to be able to honor Native Americans. And the names for forever. Just, I'm sorry when we've used the name, it's been to talk about, you know, what are they going to do with the 15th pick in the draft? You know, what should they have done on fourth and one? Like, are they, the cowboy games coming up.

It's huge. I mean, we got to get out of this three, four D. defense. Like, that's what, that's why I just, I mean, that's the common sensical application. We've taught you, Redskins has, it's been a football team in Washington. The play, a Redskins been a player that's played for the football team in Washington. I don't think, I mean, don't get me wrong, maybe some of you have, but I don't think, and I'm not being, I'm not being tone deaf or selfish or anything else. I just haven't spent a lot of time thinking about Native Americans when I've talked about the Redskins or used the name Redskins, you know, and I'm glad that they perceive it to be

a proud, honorable thing. And I think it's probably been right for the franchise to sort of position it that way. But let's be honest. I mean, when you're singing Hail to the Redskins in the stadium after a touchdown, you're cheering, you know, you're cheering Terry McClorn who just caught a 75 touchdown pass for the professional football team that you're rooting for. You're not sitting there in the moment thinking about the great Native American cultures. No. Get out of the business. Get in a football business.

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All of us. All of us were negative. That's great. So next up, I'm going to go get the antibody test to see if I've had it. Okay. Okay. That's a good idea. Yeah.

I'm going to be having the test next month before we go to the beach. Right. And leave myself enough time to make sure I get the results before we go to the beach. Yeah. So, you know, do you know that Maryland, like, is among the states where the infection rate is increasing at, like, the lowest rates, if not the lowest rate, one of the lowest rates in the country? It's funny because states around it have had, significant, you know, increases in infection rates, but Maryland's been doing pretty well. You know, so far, I mean, we've got a long road to the end here, but so far,

Hogan looks pretty good. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're comparing them to the president, there's a guy walking by my window now who looks pretty good in handling this thing. Before we sign off, I just want to make sure that we wish a house. happy birthday is what about good friends. Yes.

And that's Joe Jacoby. Jake. Talk about when things were, when it was a great time to be a fan of this team. It's when Joe Jacoby was leading the way, number 66. Happy birthday, Joe. Happy birthday, Jake. God, he's always been one of my favorite people in this business.

I know you feel the same way about him. So many people feel the same way about Jake. He's truly one of the nicest people ever with the nicest family. I had him on last week to talk about Bugle on the radio show, and he got so emotional. And, you know, Jake gets really emotional. But that was his guy, man. You know, Bugle's the guy that found Jacoby. You know, Bugle's the guy that worked him out at Louisville.

Bugle's the guy that saw the potential in Jacoby. 61, by the way, is his age. 61 years old. is Joe Jacoby. Yeah, happy birthday to him. Yes. One other quick thing. Did you see the Asante Samuel thing from over the weekend? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. So let me just share this with everybody. Asante Samuel, you know, an 11-year corner, Patriots, Eagles, good player.

On July 4th, he tweeted out the following. With all due respect, can someone explain to me why Daryl Green is considered a great, question mark. He played 19 years and was mostly a nickelback. 54 interceptions in 19 years. Talk to me. Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. You know what was... Unbelievable. You know what was really interesting to me? We're sitting here talking about the erosion of the fan base and, you know, and it's true. You know, and all the key indicators reflect that. But you go after one of the all-time greats, Daryl Green, Joe Jacoby, Art Monk, Doug Williams, you know, Ricky, I'm just going to say Ricky Sanders, Rigo, Thaisman, Sonny, you're now dealing with people that all of a sudden wake up a little bit.

They're like, what's he? What's he talk? Did you see how many responses and retweets? We wrote a story about it in the Washington Times. about the reaction. We literally wrote a story about it. Yeah, I mean. Matt Parris. And some of the reactions from people in the league and people, you know, fans of just football, but a lot of that reaction is Redskin fan reaction or certainly people who used to be. Like, you can't, I'm not going to watch, you know,

last year, Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder continue to F up the franchise, but don't come at Daryl Green. Yeah, absolutely. Now, what he tweeted was with all due respect, can someone explain to me, the do was D-O, okay? I tweeted back at him with all due respect, D-U-E, how's that University of Central Florida education? Oh, did you really? Yes, I did. He didn't even use the right word.

Oh, God. Brian Mitchell tweeted back immediately. If you don't know, then you're a damn fool. And then Asante Samuel went back at Brian Mitchell saying, nah, pimp, not a fool at all. You might need to ask yourself, are you a fool fool? I don't listen to people. I find out for myself, fool.

Let me just give Asante a little bit of advice. Don't mess with B Mitch. That's the last person you'd ever want to. to mess with. Tony Dungy weighed in. He retweeted it. He wrote, Asante, well, you played some great football in the 2000s. You obviously don't know much about football that was played in the 80s and 90s. Darrell Green played on the outside, not as a nickel, which, by the way, was the first thing I was like, Nickelback, what's he talking about? Maybe the last year with Champ Bailey and Dion Sanders. He traveled with the best receiver and was a, in all capital letters from Tony

Dungee, top echelon cornerback for almost two decades. He was universally ripped by former players, by fans, media members across the board for that tweet. But I think the most fascinating part of it was just that it was the reaction to it. By the way, he played 20 years too, not 19. And by the way, you know you've reached a level of respect where you don't have to defend yourself, thousands of people will do it for you. Isn't that so true? Like, you know who didn't respond? Daryl Green didn't respond.

Yes. Thousands of people will do it for you. Let others, you know, this has been my gripe with the organization. Let others talk about how great you are after you've actually done something great. If you do, they will talk about you. What Asante also doesn't know is that if Darrell Green had been given the regular job of punt returner, he would have been one of, if not the greatest punt returners in the history of the game. He was so lethal as a punt returner when he got the opportunity.

Whenever Darrell Green dropped back in a big game in a big spot where Gibbs said, all right, Darrell go back there. Every single one of us were on the edge of our seats thinking there's about a 50-50 chance he's going to score. And he did a lot. And there were several that were called back, but the most famous was the punt return at Soldier Field. With the broken rib, with the cracked rib. With the cracked rib on the cutback in five-degree weather in Walter Payton's final game as the Redskins were on their way to another Super Bowl victory. That was the divisional round game against the Bears, and it was classic.

A lot of people think that that was like a late fourth quarter. That was actually a late third quarter punt return, gave him the lead that they didn't give up on. But it was one of the famous plays, certainly in franchise history. All right. One last thing. Yes. Washington National shut down their training today. They're not the only team.

So what does that mean? The Astros shut down theirs as well. They're not getting test results quick enough. This thing's falling apart. David Price has opted out. Mike Trout is considering opting out. I don't think you're going to see a baseball season. I know baseball teams and how they run,

and I'm not criticizing the nationals. It's with any sports organization. We've seen the Redskins and how screwed up they can be when it comes to their medical. There are mistakes on a regular basis that are made within a sports team. daily when you don't have the burden of the coronavirus to deal with. Having to put all the protocol that they put in place, they'll never, never be able to pull it off. There will be just screw up every day that players will say,

oh my God, I'm putting myself at risk. It's too hard. I mean, every day that goes by, it's like it just doesn't seem, it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. It really does. So right now, the nationals called off their workout today because they don't have their test results. Was Sean Doolittle leading the shutdown because he's really been outspoken? And by the way, I saw some of his tweets over the weekend.

He's clearly feeling some pressure on Twitter from people saying, hey, dude, you know, man up a little bit. And he said, you know, I talk a bit too much. I'll concede that point. There was a little bit of self-deprecation. But he's like, you know, I want what's best for everybody. I want a healthy situation. Yeah. Well, I don't know.

The NBA, I guess, is going to go first. Hockey decided on Toronto in Edmonton. August 1st looks like the start date there. I think these hubs cities you'd think have a better chance. But like we said, all it's going to take is one person on a ventilate. seriously ill. And it's going to be the Rudy Gobert moment. That'll shut everything down.

Freddie Freeman is sick. He is? First basins for the brave. He's just not positive. He's got some symptoms. Okay. Well. Nickmore cake is just opted out of the 2020 season.

Yeah. There you go. It's everybody. I talk to in my world, a circle of friends, all they want to know is, are we going to have a football season or not? Because there really is something special about the rhythm of the football season. And that'll make... You're going to have a football season with a new owner and a new team. What a great time to be a fan. I almost said Redskins fan. I know you did. That's right. All right, well, no law.

I mean, by the way, one quick thing, people will continue to refer to them as the Redskins, but a lot of people, if not that, will refer to them as the skins. Because that's been a common way to refer to them anyway, you know? Yes. Going to the Skins game. All right. Thank you for doing this today.

Thanks to all of you. The plan was to be off this. week. So we're back to that plan, but obviously as events warrant, we could be back in here doing another podcast this week. All right, Tommy, thanks. Appreciate it. Okay, boy, take care. All right, everybody, stay well, stay healthy, and we'll talk to you whenever we talk to you next.