The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cover-Up & Bots

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

Cooley and Kevin today talking about a ton of things. Lots of free agent WFT talk including who of their own should be brought back. Cooley's take on the Wilkenson investigation story from Friday. They talked Terps, new rules, and lots more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Coolie's with me today. Maryland lost last night. So for all of you who love to come back at me when I say bad night for those that

went turgeon fired. Yeah, last night for those of you who won them fired, it was a good night for you. Many of you are fans. And I think it's interesting that you find some of these painful loss. is very delicious in your own way. You're so sensitive to this. I am, no doubt. I don't know why.

You are so sensitive. Why do you care what the 19 people who troll you say? It's not 19. If it were just the 19 people that I ignore on Twitter all the time, it would be another ignoring situation. There is no doubt that this fan base right now is split on marketing. turgeon. And I would say half of it, if not more than half of it, coolly, once turgeon gone. And it's my belief that that would be a mistake. Now, I'm open to having the dialogue about it.

I just need to know who it is you're going to replace them with. Because a lot of the people that the anti-turgeon people think would be so interested or so getable are not getable. Chris Beard's not getable. He makes $4.5 million. at Texas Tech. Maryland doesn't have that budget. John Beeline is 70 years old or whatever he is. He's a great coach. Don't get me wrong.

A phenomenal coach. And yeah, I think he's a better coach than Turgeon. Nate Oates is not leaving Alabama after one season. Not going to happen. I don't want Thad Mata. I think Eric Musselman has always been one of the very, very good coaches wherever he's been. He's doing a phenomenal job.

at Arkansas. Is Maryland a better job than Arkansas? I believe it is, and it's in a better conference in the Big Ten. Would he take the job? He might. He might take the job. Arkansas, by the way, is a big-time basketball school as well as a big-time football school. They've won a national championship there. They have tradition. That Bud Walton Arena and the Waltons and the Walmart people are really in to Arkansas sports and that basketball program in particular. But anyway, Yeah, I am. I do get defensive when it comes to him and a little bit overprotective, but it hasn't stopped me to be fair in criticizing him when I believe he deserves to be criticized. I've done it in the past, and I'm going to do it a little bit.

You texted it to him. I did. I texted him some ideas. You remember when we were going to start a business that helped people with social media and stuff? Right. if we started that business right now for turge we'd get him some bots we'd get him some bots we'd get him some fake accounts yes but you know what we wouldn't do we wouldn't introduce and open up all of those Twitter bots on the same exact day no we'd do consecutive days for sure we might be because because we don't want to put a lot of effort to do it but anyway we'll get to

that story um which Tommy and I talked about but Cooley will have a chance to weigh in on all the Snyder stuff as well. We are a week away from the beginning of that legal tampering period, which is really the beginning of free agency. You know, a week from today is the day that teams can begin entering into contract negotiations with players who are unrestricted free agents. It's known as the legal tampering period. Yeah, the period that always went on in the past,

and they just decided everyone's doing it. doing it illegally. Let's just, you know what, let's just legalize it. I don't really, maybe you do. I don't understand the benefit of the two days prior to the official start of the league calendar and free agency when teams can make it official and players can actually sign these contracts that they've agreed to verbally. What is the point? Why not just start it on March 15th or, you know, and say, hey, it's going to start and we're not going to start it at midnight. It's going to start at a reasonable hour, beginning at 9 a.m. on Monday, March 15th, you can start, you know, having negotiations with players. I don't know. It's so ridiculous because all these negotiations are just going through the agents who are just talking to the teams anyways.

Yeah, right. True. It's absurd. Someone explained it to me at one point over the last couple of years, and I was like, yeah, sure. But aren't they just going to start talking earlier? so they can get it done earlier. Right. I don't know. It's so funny to me, because we've been talking about free agency

and some of these contracts, and you keep asking me to watch Darnold and some of the stuff, and it's like, it used to be a huge deal for Washington. They haven't had any deal out of this in the last how many years? Well, Landon Collins was a big deal.

Landon Collins got paid a lot of money, I guess, yeah. Well, they have, you know, right now after the Alex Smith release, they have the fourth or fifth most available cap space in the league. They could do some things. You're absolutely right. And last year they did swing big on Amari Cooper, but ultimately, I guess to your point, and I actually made this point this morning with Ben Standing, that, you know, last year, and it was a slightly different situation. New staff, he made it very clear that culture and changing the culture was the primary goal. and he was going to get to know the people that he had before he started making big decisions, even though they tried to make a big decision on Amari Cooper and a Cooper didn't take the money.

Ultimately, free agency produced, you know, names like J.D. McKissick and Logan Thomas and Peyton Barber, you know, but Kendall Fuller also, but Kevin Pierre Lewis and who am I forgetting? Did the linebacker who retired this year, Davis? Thomas Davis, yeah. But you're right. It wasn't like... West Schweitzer. West Schweitzer.

It turned out actually to be a very effective free agent class. I mean, almost all of those players I just mentioned made a contribution. I mean, Logan Thomas and J.D. McKissick, I would say, and even West Schweitzer, all outperformed what we thought in the moment. I know you and I both liked him. Kissick. Kendall Fuller and Ronald Darby, we forgot Darby, Kevin Pierre Lewis, all played well and contributed. I know.

It's where Kyle Smith did a pretty darn good job last year. Was that Kyle Smith that you think drove all the free agent? Well, yeah, he was, that was his role as of last year. Okay. More, more. No, it's not to say that the head coach wouldn't have some guys, but I mean, there are certain guys like McKissick. I mean, that's a lot of film work and a lot of study over more than the time that

Ron got hired for the job. Right. But more, the draft was more his responsibility. No, Kyle, until last year, last year he was basically put in charge of pro and college scouting before Ron got hired. So he would have been in charge of. both departments. Okay.

Previous to that, he was just the head college scout. I think Ron consistently talked about Kyle and the draft as if that was his primary responsibility. But I believe you, you know, and I, you know, so I. I think he had a lot to do with it, but he was also involved in pro scouting last year. By the way, this is sort of an extension of something we've talked about briefly before. They did do a good job in free agency last year without spending a boatload of money. This year is going to be a very interesting year because there is a lot of people, many people feel that agents and even teams with the reduced cap number are going to save their long-term deals for just the big names,

and other players are going to end up signing one-year deals. until that cap comes up. They're going to be very hesitant to commit to a long-term deal with a lower cap number, which may produce a lesser deal than maybe they could get a year from now. My point is that last year they got a lot of guys that we didn't know much about. They swung big and missed on Cooper. This year they've got a lot of money, but there's also going to be an opportunity with a lot of teams releasing players because of this cap and players that are going to be looking for just one-year deals. You know, I think about what they have right now, Cooley. In fact, we didn't plan on doing this, but let me go through the list real quickly.

We've already made our feelings, you know, we've already described our feelings on Brandon Sheriff. The deadline's tomorrow at 4 p.m. for the tag. We wouldn't tag them. We don't think they're going to tag them. A long-term deal is what we both would offer him, but we'd move on if he's, demands a lot more than what we talked about. How about Ronald Darby? You know, last year you signed Darby to a one-year $3 million deal. Would you sign Darby to another one-year $3 million deal? Yeah, but that's not going to happen. Okay, how much is he going to get this year after playing

pretty well last year? Darby's probably over $6 million a year after playing last year. Really? Something like that. I don't know. I think there were a lot of games where Darby played really, really well. I know you did. Here's the thing. I'm saying Darby, okay, I would sign him to Two years, $5 million a year. If all he's going to get is a one year, I mean, I haven't looked at the cornerback market. The corner. Much of probably should have a little bit more, but he's certainly a good fit in that defense. But he's not going to get a massive deal.

He's not a locked down corner. No. But just answer the question. Yes, you would try to resign him and maybe that. Because I think some of this news, last Monday we talked about how we thought it would be a new, this would be the first of several weeks in a row of news. And last week's big news was Alex Smith and the news that they were moving on from them and they made it official on Friday releasing him. This week is going to be a lot of tag news. And by the way, the tag deadline could get pushed back because the salary cap number still isn't finalized.

I saw Ian Rappaport tweet that out about an hour ago. So it is possible that the franchise tag deadline could get moved. This has happened before in the past. But yes on Darby for you. What about Kevin Pierre? Last year was a $4 million deal, by the way. I think it was one year, $3 million. Darby signed a one year $4 million deal to play in the shadows of oxen.

I saw that headline, but if you go to SpotRack, it was one year $3 million. So whatever. What about KPL? Would you try to bring him back? He's going to cost you nothing, so sure. I totally agree. I thought he at times really flashed, and by the way, they like him a lot. What about Cam Sims?

He's a restricted free agent. To me, to me, that's a no-brainer. You're going to figure out a deal to bring Cam Sims back. He was good for you last year. Yep, he was good for you. He's not great for you. So, yeah, I think you can get him back on the cheap. What about Dustin Hopkins?

I'm not paying him more than low mid-grade kicker money. You know, the funny thing about Hopkins, he went through that whole patch through, what, 10 weeks of the season, where it was like he's going to miss a kick almost every game. But he still ends up over 80 percent, and towards the end of the year, didn't miss kicks. I like Dustin. I don't think Dustin's a basket. He missed a massive extra point. point in the Carolina game.

That was huge. That was the next to last game of the year. That is true. What was his percentage at the end of the year, though? We looked it up. It was like 80%. Was it 80? Yeah.

I think he's a talented kicker. I think he misses far too many kicks. Here's my problem with the Big Kickkins. Right away. Here's why I'm not paying him. Because I don't want to put them out there to kick a 56-yarder. 79.4% on fuel goals. 80% will keep a job.

I think you'd call that 80%, essentially. I mean, you're supposed to be above 80%. That's what I've always been told. That's what I've always heard. But I don't want to put Dustin Hopkins out there to kick a 56-yarder, to kick a 58-yarder. They don't. Is it going to make a 58-yarder?

But there are guys out there that can. Go find one. He can make a 58-yarder. What was his long this year? His long this year was 51. But he's made long kicks before. You want me to look this up? For the purpose of time right now, I don't know if it's worth it.

Well, I'm going to tell you right now, it's not going to be that hard to find. Well, actually, it might be. Well, I just have to get it off pro football reference because they give you the game. They give you the game long. Okay, long. His career longs with 56 yard or against Carolina in 2018. 2018, 56 yards. Yeah.

Yep. You know what? I think Dustin Hopkins is really talented. His career? And I think you can do a lot worse. I just, what bothers me about Hopkins is I just, I go back to there are multiple. seasons where he's really hurt him. 2016 is where he really

heard him. I mean, the kick in London, the kick in Detroit, the two kicks on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys, these were big misses. In 2016, he was still 81%. I understand that. But he missed some big effing kicks.

He missed some really big kicks that year. That year, remember, he missed, you know, the short one in London to win the game from 30 yards out. That was the week after he had missed a huge kick in Detroit. They lost that game by three. He missed on Thanksgiving Day against the Cowboys two field goals, which, you know,

basically would have made the difference. They lost that game, they lost that game by 5, 31 to 26. You know, he just missed kicks. He missed a kick in the giant game at the end of the year. in the game that everybody blames on Cousins, and Cousins was terrible in that game. Not saying he was good, but the defense was horrible, and Hopkins missed another kick. You know, and it was 13-10. Remember, it was 13-10.

It would have been 13-13 late. They scored on the final play of the game when they got the ball back, and they were just trying to make a play tossing it around, and the Giants ended up scoring. It was 13-10. He missed a field goal. It would have been 13-13-13. He's missed some kicks that have really cost them dearly.

I mean, you're talking to somebody who's feeling it on kickers is if you don't make them all, go find another dude. Yeah, but it's hard to find another dude. If you're not Vinatieri in his prime. Then go find another dude. Go find that guy. Yeah. I don't want an 879 to 82% kicker.

I want a guy that's 90. Yeah. Just so we're clear, I'm aware that that's probably unrealistic, but it's not unrealistic to find another guy that's going to kick it 77% in taking a shot. You might miss a couple more kicks a year, but at least you're taking a shot at it. I also think it's really hard to find kickers. And the thing about Hopkins, he does what special teams coaches like. He boots it through the back of the end zone on kickoffs,

his kicks, both from a P.A.T. and a field goal standpoint, the ball gets up in the air quickly. It is a great ball flight. Like, when he misses, it always looks good. He just sort of pushes it and it hits the right up right or just misses right. But he never badly hooks something or badly shanks something. All of the kicks get up in a hurry and they're beautiful soaring through the air. It's just sometimes he doesn't make them. Fabian Moreau, yes or no? No. No, okay, let's put it this way. Fabian Moro is not getting some big-time deal in free agency.

No. So, yes, you could keep Fabian probably for very little. Ryan Anderson, they're not bringing back. And Ryan Kerrigan, the two Ryans are gone, right? They're not getting re-signed. I wouldn't, see, I think Ryan Kerrigan will probably want some bigger money, but I don't think he's going to get it. He could get one of those one year, you know, $8 million deal to be a, you know,

a third down pass rusher on a good team that needs some help. Maybe. I don't know. You know what? He played pretty well last year. Kevin I'm talking about his production I think there were games

where he was pretty I mean really stout and strong I know he's only got one move you're just God you just don't like Ryan Carrigan I love Ryan Carrigan I know you just don't love him as a player I just am moving on from what his

what he is as a player right now I think the world of Ryan Carrick I know you do but he just sort of falls into sacks He did have a couple. I will give it to you. He had a couple this year. Big time, ball bull rush stuff.

I mean, knocking people. If Ryan Kerrigan was just going to be a one-year deal and it was $5 million, I'd think about it. I'm not saying for this team. I'm saying that there's going to be a team. I'm saying for the team. I'm saying there's going to be a team. Remember, his reputation, and I know everybody watches film, But his reputation is really solid.

He is also, what is he, 33 years old, 32 years old? What is Ryan Carrigan? Is he 30? Oh, he's probably 33. So somebody's going to pay him $6, $7 million to come off the edge on 3rd and 10. 32. With his bull rush. Because, you know, and by the way, the fan base of that team is going to be excited about it.

Wow. We got Ryan Carrigan. We got Ryan Carrigan. For nothing. For hardly anything. One year, six million bucks. It's probably going to be like the Cowboys or the Eagles and the Giants. No, probably be the Patriots.

Yeah, right. Might be the Patriots. And then they'll find a way to create with some blitzes and get him situations. He'll have 11 sacks. And we'll be like, what the hell? I should have looked this up before the show, so it's my fault. So if it's somebody that I know really well and I'm not giving him credit, I apologize. It wasn't Ben.

So I think it may have been JP. I should probably look at it up real quickly. But I think JP or somebody could have been Nicky or could have been somebody on the beat basically said that the team more likely than not is going to move on from Ruben Foster. Now, I will tell you that about two months ago, I heard from somebody a good source that said, good God, is Rubin Foster strong and is he a freak? And he's not back completely yet, but there's more hope than there's ever been. that he'll be back physically.

So I don't know. You've got to commit to him. He's an unrestricted free agent. It's not like there's going to be anybody pounding down his door. And, you know, you just, I wonder whether or not Ron Rivera is going to take. Because I've said all along Cooley, I think there is a guiding free agency draft principle here for this organization that we should all be mindful of before we go off predicting about free. agent signings and players are going to draft. And that is, this is not going to be an organization that signs anybody with any sort of red flags anymore, no matter how talented. You know, the due

diligence done by Ron Rivera and Marty Hurney and Martin Mayhew and everybody else involved is going to be a lot different than this organization's done, you know, over a long period of time. I'm not suggesting Kyle wasn't competent and that various people in the organization, but the Bottom line is the owner ain't coming in to pick somebody that can't play or has a big name but doesn't fit. So not this year anyway. That would be my guess that it's not going to happen this year. So Brandon Sheriff, I'm sure they want back. I believe John Allen will get a contract extension in this offseason before the season begins.

I do believe that will happen. I don't know anything. I'm just guessing because I know how much Rivera will. loves him. I'm with you on Darby, KPL. I think they do re-sign Hopkins. I think they move on from Moreau, move on from Anderson, move on from Carrigan, and they sign Cam Sims. They've already signed Taylor Heineke. I think they will sign Kyle Allen. That's a no-brainer. And I think this guy, Robert Foster, you were the one that said, God, there's some people in the organization that think he can fly and he can and he was on the field.

He's a restricted free agent. Wouldn't be surprised if they sign him to some sort of one year, you know, very low level deal. So that's the group of their own. We will have more later on in the week about what they'll be looking for. Cooley understands the timeline and he will have and I will also have a free agency plan coming up. I love it, man. They're going to go get a tight end.

I'll bet you. Hunter Henry? Hunter Henry would fit everything we talked about. Work ethic, play through everything, personal player, does what you want. Hunter Henry's a dude, man. Watch a lot of Hunter Henry tape. I can play. Kyle Rudolph's out there. Yeah, Kyle Rudolph is out there.

Kyle Rudolph is not Hunter Henry. I know that. But he is high character. Yeah, I love Kyle. I know Kyle really well. I know. You guys didn't you guys? Remember we had them on the show a couple times.

Did you guys share an agent? Is that why you were friends? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really like Kyle Rudolph, but I don't know if Kyle Rudolph's anywhere near the same dude. What about Gerald Everett? See, I like Everett a lot. I think Everett can play.

I think he's legit good. Everett's hurt a lot. He's a two tight end or an H-back way more than he is. That Y position. I personally think that Logan Thomas could do a lot of that H stuff and be that second dude and that you need the legit Y. What about that guy, Jonu Smith? He's a free agent out of Tennessee.

I thought he played really well. I like John Hsu Smith. John Smith's a Y, but I don't know if John Hussmiths, again, I don't know if he's like he's not Hunter Henry or Earl. or that get open guy. Right. I'm just looking through it. But I mean, they need that position in my opinion.

Right. You know, the thing that the one thing I would say, though, is Logan Thomas grew enough as a player and made enough plays that I'm sure they're saying if we didn't fill the position with the guy that we really wanted, we're good. We'll be okay this year. Yeah. We'll be okay with Logan and maybe we draft a guy in the third round.

I mean, I'll tell you one thing. if you don't sign somebody to compete with Logan for the starting job, one of the things you're going to have to do, if you end up going into the season with Logan Thomas as your number one tight end again and you're really confident about that, you're probably... I'm sorry? They do need it too.

They're going to have to think about extending him. Yeah, and then that's frustrating because you're going to pay him a lot. I don't know how much you're going to pay him. but you want to be ahead of something like that. If you really believe that Logan Thomas, if you're okay if you don't sign somebody, that Logan Thomas can really be a good player for you for the next couple of years, be ahead of this shit.

Don't wait until he has an even better year next year, and then he's an unrestricted free agent. If you could extend him a few years, and instead of giving him, what did he earn last year? It was like a two-year, $6 million deal, something like that. So if you can give him a couple more million a year and extend him and keep them around a little bit longer with maybe like, you know, some sort of team option for another year, you do it now. You don't wait until he becomes an unrestricted free agent after he catches 80 balls next year from Taylor Heineke. That's all I'm saying.

If you don't believe in him, you don't do that. But you just said they might be okay if they don't sign Hunter Henry or, you know, John Hsu Smith, or put it this way. If Kyle Pitts is within range of 19, I'm going to get him. Yeah. I would actually trade. I would trade up for. I would trade up for Kyle Pitts.

Yeah, me too. I mean, the reason is, is you, like, you don't find guys like Kyle Pitts every year. It's a really, he's a really unique player. And you see what happens when you got Travis Kelsey. It's been interesting. with tight ends and the draft. The draft two years ago when Hawkinson went high and Fant went high and what's his face from Minnesota for the Alabama tight end?

Irv Smith. He ended up not going in the first round, right? I think he may have gone in the second round. I think he might have went late first, right? I don't remember. Yeah. But you... I think he went the first.

You didn't love it. any of them. Second round. He was second round. You didn't look. So here, the thing with Hawkinson. You liked Cole Commet, who went in the second round last year. I like Colquette a lot.

I think he's going to be a really good player. I like Comat. I like Commet's film better than Hawkinson's film. My thing with Hawkinson was he was a very good blocker and is. He's a really, really good blocker. And you saw that when we played Detroit this year, I thought he did. I thought that was one of Chase Young's worst games. I thought Hawkinson did a heck of a job blocking him.

I personally thought Hawkinson could really run, but was a magnet down field. He could not avoid contact. Right. I remember that. Yeah, exactly. And so I didn't think he would ever be Kelsey. But, I mean, that's hard to say when you get guys that athletic that they don't get taught a little bit better. He was like in and then.

He was picked eighth, coolly. Eighth. I know that. Kyle Pitts may not go in the top. 10. Yes, he is. I mean, he might, but if all the quarterbacks are going. No. Yeah. But yeah, I talked to the, I coached in that all-star game last year. Right. And one of our tight ends was from Iowa. And he said, we don't, we just blocked in practice. Like that, our coach had us, that was what we did. Route running? No. And I'm sure I sent videos to you of me teaching that kid

how to double stick. Yeah. And he was so pumped. He's like, God, I wish someone had taught me this. And he picked it up in a day and he was breaking off safeties in the All-Star game. Who was that kid? That would, um, come on, Chris. He didn't play anywhere.

You know, the funny thing about Iowa, the year that Hawkinson, 2019, got picked eighth. And I did get the other first round pick, Noah Fant. Um, I just pulled it up. Phant was Iowa, too. There were two Iowa tight ends picked in the top 20 of the draft. And fans had some moments in Denver, but they just have had issues of quarterback. Irv Smith, by the way, is a good player. Now, they offensively with Jefferson and Thielen and Smith and Cook, I mean, it just, they were, you know,

they just all caught a lot of balls this year. I guess my point on the tight end thing is, is that. that it would be great if for a young quarterback, if it ends up being one of these two young quarterbacks and not some sort of veteran, it would be really good to have Logan Thomas Plus. Well, first of all, you have to have Logan Thomas plus something. Because the other guys are not good enough to be.

You would do Ertz in a minute, right? A minute. I think you put the two of them on the field. you got a really good personnel group. I do Ertz right now, and I don't know what they're going to get for Ertz. I think there's enough unknown with Ertz out there with health and stability and some of the things

that I think that you're going to get Ertz for a third. You know, Hawkinson caught 67 balls this year, six touchdowns for Detroit. I know he was on my fantasy team. You know. But he had a quarterback who could throw in the ball too. I know he did. And just so, you know, because we played them,

so I've watched a lot of it. he's not out there breaking dudes off. It's more like Logan Thomas. Deperate because he can run away a little bit, but he's not out there breaking dudes down. He just played and looked like you on the field. But again, like I said about Hawkinson is maybe he, well, not maybe.

I know who, I know somebody that played at Iowa. We weren't taught to run routes. And in three days, I tried to get out of run routes. He was pumped about it. And the funny thing about me saying that is I was really never taught to run routes either until McVeigh started coaching. I had a little bit more innate ability naturally to find open spaces and do to do some certain things. But the footwork of it and stuff, that was never really a part of some of the stuff we did. With Al Saunders a little bit, but that was a different style for me.

Who is the best route running tight end that you played with in Washington? Was there anybody that was good, talented? That I played with? Yeah, just, I mean, there weren't many players other than you. I personally thought Todd Yoder could really run, but was stiff. I thought he was a good route runner. What about Fred? Nope, Fred was an awful route runner.

Fred had to... Fred had a lot to learn. Fred could have become a great route runner. I think that's... Fred and I are still friends. We've talked a lot. Remember, I spend an off-season every day with Fred. Right.

when he was trying to get back in the league. And yeah, it was like, I think Fred's another one of those guys where he's like, I really wish that my first four years would have went differently. You mean from his standpoint? From his standpoint, how he treated it, how he practiced, how he went about things. Yeah, well, sleep. Fred had all that, Fred could have been, like when I was working with Fred, and obviously there was reasons why he didn't get signed some of the stuff that he had,

but I personally learned a lot about Fred Davis that I never knew. I think he's an incredibly intelligent person. I think he's a hard, hard worker. And he was a hard worker when he was with Washington. It was just hard for him to work in the classroom. To get to work. When he went out on the field, he was going to practice as hard as anybody. There was never any doubt with that.

And I personally thought that offseason went five years ago, something like that, that if he would have been signed given the right opportunity, he was a top 10 tight end in the league that next year. My personal belief. And I called a lot of coaches and stuff. And I'm like, this guy can play. You should give him a shot. You did?

Who'd you call? I called all the guys I knew. Sean. Yeah. The floor, some of the dudes. But the problem that I had with Fred, or that he had, saw the coaches I knew, were the ones that watched him.

in the meeting rooms. I know. And I'm like, dude, I mean, everyone I know is going to be like, yeah, we know Fred. But I didn't know Fred when I played. He's different dude. Fred was, gosh, I thought, I wished he would have got one more shot. I think he would have made more of it. God, that draft, Cooley.

Honestly, it's one of the worst drafts in recent NFL history. It's not even recent anymore. Yeah, we talk about that a lot. Devin Thomas, did he ever have a chance to be a good player? The thing that you really start to look at, well, first of all, you can't babysit dudes. I mean, I think that all the time, and I've always said, like, just hire a couple extra assistant coaches and guys that can kind of cater to them and they're, you're paying them enough, you're committed enough. our babysitter a little bit for some of these guys Devin had a lot of talent

the guy that I feel sorry for as well is Malcolm Kelly he he had old man knees he didn't pass the physical he drafted him in the second round I know and Malcolm had a ton of talent but he could he was never going to be healthy

And I also know this. When your knees hurt all the time or one of them hurts all the time, life's hard. Yeah, well, especially, you know, when you're older and he was young. What about, I'm just curious from that draft. You know, they drafted a punter, Durant Brooks in the sixth round that year. He was, I don't remember much about Durant Brooks. I think he was goofy. What about Colt Brennan?

Were any of the players bought in to what the fans were? bought into in that preseason, that legendary Colt Brennan preseason? Yeah, Colt is another one of those guys that I think, I don't know if he could have changed exactly who he was, but we told Cole all the time. Like, dude, just put on a Redskins polo and sit there and take notes and act interested. Like, you're the quarterback.

You have to be there all the time. You get. Cole had a boatload of talent. Here's my thought on Colt. He could see the field. And he could make decisions quick. Those are two things that you don't just find in quarterbacks. Right.

Gally, how about a bad situation for a quarterback, though? You're drafted into a Jim Zornoff. I'm interested, though, because sometimes when we talk, I get new things from you. And you've just essentially said that, you know, Devin Thomas needed a babysitter and Colt Brennan wasn't committed. You know, in the same way probably that, you know, Dwayne needed to be committed, talent, but they need to be committed.

Very similar. I think Colt would have been better than Dwayne if he would have been given Duane type opportunity personally. I think he had more talent than Dwayne, but probably similar situations. The Devin Thomas thing is like, was he ever really going to work?

I don't know. I am telling you, Cooley, the 2008 NFL draft, I'm absolutely convinced of the following. This is how inept this organization was. I think because they had really never, for whatever reason, fans get wrapped up into this. Trade back, trade back, accumulate more picks. Well, it's because what Bobby Bethard did way back and it always worked. Trade back, trade back.

Well, first of all, you have to have somebody to trade back with. Secondly, like we pointed out, J.J. Watchier, when Washington traded back took Ryan Carrigan, but passed on JJ Watt. Sometimes you don't want to trade back. You just want to take the player that's going to be a dominant player. But that 2008 draft, they had pick number 21 overall in the first round, and they traded with Atlanta and picked up those extra second round picks. And it was, I'm convinced of it to this day that it was this feeling that, you know what we've been reaching for big name stars and pay over paying we'll look smart this year by trading back and picking up extra picks and then they had the three second round picks and it was devon thomas and fred davis and malcolm kelly and not one of them worked out it turned out to be truly if you look at their draft that year just one you know every single round of the draft that year for them it's one of the worst drafts to finish in NFL history.

I think it was three years after or four years after that draft, there was only one player on an NFL roster left, and it was Chad Reinhart, and he was in San Diego. I could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure that's true. I think it was four years after that draft, one player out of the, I think they drafted 10 was left in the league, and it was Chad Reinhart. and he wasn't that good, but he had at least, you know, like a five or six year NFL career. I guess Fred Davis probably was on the two four years.

I'm just sitting here. We brought this up, and I've thought a lot about Fred over the last six years. Both of, they put both of us in a bad situation to some extent, especially Fred. Well, they should have been something. Like, had I been Brian Kozlowski or. or Todd Yoder or any of the guys that I played with, that I could have looked at Fred and one month of training camp and went, he's better than me.

Then I probably could have babysitted Fred a little more. Like Brian Kozlowski babysat me for two years. Sort of. I mean, we sat right next to each other in meetings. He was taking notes. We were doing, like, there was a, there was always some little competition, but I don't think Brian ever thought. or cause or caw as everyone calls him after i found out when he left uh i don't think he ever thought

i should be playing over chris and he was cheering for me and rooting for me and it was almost like he was kind of coaching me did you need babysitting i didn't need babysitting but everybody needs a guy that's looking out for him a little bit and i tried to help i did i did try to help fred and fred said to me afterwards like i just always thought i was competing with you so some of the things I wanted to do it my way. I just, had I been 32 on my way out, God, I could have baddened the guy that just sat right next to him every day. I should have taken more ownership in that team to sit by Fred every day.

Some of that's my fault. Yeah. That takes good leadership. It takes good leaders to do that. And he should have been a better player than he was. Now, some of the decisions he made off the field, it's not like Brian Kozlowski could have helped me with a lot of, you go home, do what you want to do.

Of yourself, he couldn't help you with that. That's not necessarily true. I think he was living with me during that time. Oh, he was. Your was for sure. I think he was living with me and maybe encouraged it. that was an accident that that I mean there were accidents that happen but it's not an accident to make to spend time during the week doing things you shouldn't be doing that it really impact

your how you feel the next day I made some of those choices as well back to the 2008 draft my point was, I think Vinny wanted to be like, look at us, look at how smart we are, trading back and picking up extra picks. See, we've never done this one before. Look at how smart we are. Oh, I know one other thing off of this conversation. Was Jason Campbell a good worker? Yeah, he was.

This has been my thought with Jason all along, and Jason and I were really close friends when we were there together. was that I heard it from Sunny probably four years later, but it just sparked my mind with Jason when he was the Oudaloup thing, the military fighter pilot brain speed analysis, like how fast is their brain? I just think Jason saw it a split second later than the elite quarterbacks. Plus he had that long delivery.

You had the long delivery. That's what I was going to say, yeah. It was like the timing was the anticipation and timing was never quite what it had to be to be elite. I can picture that thinking of him playing. And at the same time, he also had this very nonchalant sort of approach. And I'm not saying that he wasn't competitive at all. But there was just this, you know, and that worked to his favor in some cases. He never seemed to be a guy that got like super upset or rattled.

about much. True or not? Nope, very true. And the other thing I always look back and think about Jason is he was drafted to be a quarterback in Joe Gibbs system. Right. Where he was a great deep

ball thrower and made big plays like that at Auburn with a team that really ran the ball. Remember they had those two really big back. Cadillac Williams and Cadillac Williams and the other one, yeah. Ronnie Brown. Ronnie Brown. They were both taken in the same draft, right? Or am I thinking about somebody else? I forget. I think that was it. I know it was Cadillac Williams.

And then all of a sudden it's like, here's Al Saunders, playbook. The fit wasn't great. Jason ended up having a really good year in Oakland, I think, a couple years later. Better than people give credit for. You're right. What's really amazing about that is that Washington traded up in that draft, that 2005 draft, the year after you got picked, in part because they drafted Carlos Rogers in the top 10. I want to say number nine overall. And that was their first pick, Carlos Rogers. And by the way, they picked him in front of, I'll never forget, Sean Merriman,

because Merriman was a Maryland guy, and all of us thought that Merriman had a chance to be an absolute star pass rusher, and we were right. Anyway, and Carlos Rogers was a good player, never a great player. But they traded back into the first time. Well, he went on to be even better after he got contacts. After he got contacts. Which, by the way, it was the same thing with Fred. Like three and a half years in, Fred dropped a lot of balls and stuff in practice. He just needed context.

Why couldn't anybody at that? I don't know. You do an eye test every year. Oh, Jesus. But they traded back into the first round to select Jason Campbell right after Aaron Rogers had been selected by the Packers. I think it was 23, 24 in that draft. Rogers was 23. But Joe like Jason Williams.

Joe liked Jason Campbell. I know he did. This was a Joe move. Joe fell in love with Jason Campbell when they went down to work out Carlos Rogers. And he wanted Jason Campbell. He saw Jason Campbell as his next Mark Ripin, Doug Williams, big time, you know, deep thrower. And, you know, it just, if they had traded up, I mean, to your point, they weren't going to take Aaron Rogers, but they traded up one spot

short, one spot after the Packers and selected Jason Campbell. Hold on. I'm just pulling up this draft just to make sure. As you're doing that, I'm going through the 2000 draft. Rodgers was 24. Campbell was 25. The trade was once again with Denver. Denver and Mike Shanahan loved to tee up this organization. Look, bottom line, I don't care what anybody says about the Champ Bailey situation and he had to go. You don't trade a Hall of Fame corner and a second round pick for a really good running back.

That trade should have been worst case straight up, or really it should have been Denver throwing in the second round pick with Clinton. No doubt. No doubt. But, you know, we all love Clinton. We all love Clinton. But Clinton should have been coming to Washington with one of Denver's second round picks, not Champ Bailey and a second round pick going to. Denver for Clinton Portis. Well, let's just stop right there for a second.

2004, you don't give up a second rounder next year to get a pick into the third round to draft me. Well, you know, Cooley. They had to give up a second to draft 81 overall. So we didn't talk about this last week. I think it must have been Tommy and I that talked about it. You know, Kellyn Winslow, the second, was convicted. of those crimes. He's going, he's going to do 14 years of serious time. And so I, I retold the story. I didn't do this with you, right? I did it with Tommy. No, you didn't do it. I retold the story that

Clinton told me and hadn't, and I don't think it ever told before. Clinton and I were doing this event, I don't know, this is like 10 years ago, bunch of, you know, season ticket holders somewhere that paid for it. And Larry couldn't show up, so I ended up hosting the whole thing. And Clinton told the story that I remember I hadn't heard and he said I don't think I've told this story before. First of all, that he basically was responsible for talking Joe into trading Laverneus Coles for Santana Moss. That's number one. Laverneous Coles won it out. Clinton was friends with Santana Moss, obviously from the Miami days. So he said, Joe, here's the trade. Santana wants to come here. Lavernees wants to go, trade him. And Joe did. And then the more famous story is, you know,

that Joe wanted to take Kellyn Winslow at number five overall because he wanted a big time, tight end, he wanted offense, and Clinton got wind, that that's who they were going to take at number five overall, and he walked into Joe's office, and he said, Joe, you can't draft Kellyn Winslow. And Joe said, why? He said, there are a lot of reasons why. I guess Clinton knew that there were some red flags on Winslow. He said he's a talent, but you have to draft Sean Taylor. and Joe said, yeah, but Clinton, we're looking for more offense. And Clinton said, that's exactly why you have to draft Sean Taylor. He'll provide more offense than Winslow would.

But the point is, is they ended up listening to Clinton. And by the way, I had Joe on the show like, you know, a year later, I asked him about that. And he said, absolutely, Clinton was very influential. He was very, very passionate about us drafting. Sean and not drafting Kellan Winslow, and Kellan was going to be the guy. Anyway, you know, extrapolate that out. If they did pick Winslow, they would have never traded into the third rounder for you,

and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, more likely than not. It's a fine line league. You know what? We can thank, and all of you can thank, Cooley's play, and then his post-media career contributions to Clinton Portis, talking Joe Gibbs out of drafting Kellan Winslow and into drafting Sean Taylor.

But he liked you. I mean, he's told that story with you and me on the air or with others. I mean, you know, they wanted a tight end and he really liked you and he was afraid you were going to go to Dallas, right? Wasn't that the thing? No. He just, I was the only other guy in the draft

that he thought would be his H-back. Okay. And he didn't want to live. And he had to have his age. H-back. Got it. So I was the guy that he wanted, he wanted me or Kellan because he wanted that position. Right.

The Saints drafted the next year at number 40 overall. They took Josh Bullock's DB out of Nebraska. I never looked that up. Washington would have had number 40 overall in 2005, 2005. Oh, because that was the pick that they sent to move up with you. Yeah. Got it. But that's the, I mean, I don't, like if someone, if I'm your GM, I mean, it's, but the thing is, is it's Joe. And Joe's like, I want my guy.

Yeah. And you probably just get his guy. Yeah, it's just like, I mean, they basically traded for Brunel because he was going to be his guy and they probably could have gotten him for nothing if they had just waited a little bit longer. Joe was not, look, all of us understand this as, lifelong and long-time fans. Joe's strength was not personnel. It wasn't when he was here his first go-round when Bobby and Joe, you know, essentially for all intents and purposes, split up. Joe wanted more control over the say of the roster. Bobby was ready to move on. It was amicable. They both love each other forever. Bobby, you know, goes to San Diego and the Chargers end up going to a Super Bowl,

not winning it, but he's one of the greatest general managers in Hall of Fame of all time. Charlie was easier to work with. Joe had much more say. But Joe didn't get a lot of shit right. You know, the first go-round. He was the one that was dead set on drafting Desmond Howard. Desmond Howard couldn't play. He couldn't play wide receiver, and they took him fourth overall. Joe, you know, Joe messed a lot of those things up, personnel-wise. And when he got here in 2004, look, getting Brunel was great, but he didn't need to. But the other part of it is he didn't have anybody to say, hey, Joe, I'm going to get you Brunel, but we don't need to trade for him. Hey, Joe, I think we're going to get coolly.

I don't think we need to trade up for him. He had Vinnie and Dan. They did have to trade up for me at that point. Who was going to take you? The Saints were going to take me at that pick. Oh, the Saints were going to take you at that pick. At that pick. Oh, okay.

I'm sorry. Then they did. Because that was Hazlitt, who's told me that story from his end. Got it. So just and just like when you say, you don't, it's, you really don't want to give away a second. It's, I could, I thought I was going to go late second. Yeah, mid second. I know.

I personally thought when, with the list of tight ends, the way it stood. and the combine results, I should have been the third or fourth guy taken, if not the fifth. And I ended up being the eighth. Seventh or eighth taken in that draft. Let's see if we can do it again. We've done this before.

Go ahead. Name them. I don't. We don't. Come on, name him. The one that I thought was crazy, a guy named Ben Hartzot went to Indy. He was nothing.

Ohio State guy. Chris Wilson out of pit went to Kansas City. Hold on. Ben Troop went to Tennessee. Ben Hartzok went Ben Watson went and he had a long career Ben Watson ended up being a good player

Ben Watson was a first Winslow was a first, Troop was a first No troop wasn't a first, he was a second I don't, that's where I'm at Chris Wilson went before you Yeah, from Pitt, Chris Wilson went before me Should he have? No

And Hartstock shouldn't have gone before you Those are the two that you really don't think should have gone before you. What about Troop? Troop was a Florida guy, good athlete. I thought he was, I knew he would go before me. But the thing for me, I remember that draft is, like, Ben Watson went at the end of the first round to, like, New England. So he was the second, and Troop went early in the second. Yep, he went 40th in the second.

And then I was like, I'm next. I thought I would be next. And Chris Wilson went up going late second to Kansas City. And thank goodness I didn't do that because he never got a chance because he was behind Tony for five years. Right. Right. And then Hartzok went early in the third to Indian. That one I was like, come on.

That's up was not a good player. So yeah, I was sixth. By the way, in that draft, the second that went with Champ Bailey to Denver, was Tatum Bell for the Broncos in the second round, the running back. And what I'm thinking is had they not traded a second, let's just say champ for Clinton was straight up, that's probably where you would have been taken. It's possible, right?

Because Joe really wanted you. That would have been the second round, but they didn't have another pick until later in the third round, and they ended up having to trade up into the third round. So he may have taken you in the second round, and if he had taken you at that spot in the second round, that would have been one selection after Ben Troop. But at least you would have gone before Chris Wilson and Hartstock.

It's just none of it matters. It worked out just fine. All right. Let's get to some other stuff right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right. I want to get, we took a lot of time in that first segment. I want to get through a couple of things real quickly. Number one is this.

So since you and I last did a show, because we didn't do a show together on Friday and then you had a skiing trip on Saturday that you had forgot to tell me about but that's okay Tommy Tommy came to the rescue but I Oh well we didn't do a show on Friday because you had a migraine I did have a migraine I had a terrible fucking migraine When my radio show was over on Friday

And I asked you I said is there any way you'd mind doing it tomorrow I said I can suck it up and do it today but any chance you'll do it tomorrow And you said yeah yeah tomorrow will work fine And then when I called you the first following morning or texted you to say, hey, are you going to be ready in the next, you know, half hour or so? Oh, I forgot. Well, I didn't really forget I had skiing. I just, and I know what, just keep in mind, I know what day it is, but I'm in a world where it doesn't necessarily always matter what day it is. Really? God, how nice would that be? That would be so nice.

But I mean, I'm just telling you, like, I was, I like doing the show with you. So when I was all the way into work and doing the show and you said you had a headache, I'm like, okay, what am I going to do now? Well, no, you said, actually, that works out fine for me. I'm fine with that. Well, I mean, I was trying to. Because you were scrambling that day. If you had said I'm sitting here waiting for you, I would have sucked that up and done it.

I wasn't scrambling. Yes, you were. What was I scrambling? I don't know. I don't remember what it was. That's all the way back on Friday now. All right, here's what I want to do. I don't want to talk about this in a moment.

It's an eternity ago. So, so, let me, catch you up to speed on something you're somewhat familiar with, but not totally familiar with. So the big news on Friday, late morning, was that the junkies broke the following story, that they had seen the Beth Wilkinson report and that a couple of things were in it, including recommendations at Snyder, a top recommendation to the owners that Snyder be forced to sell, a secondary recommendation to the owners that Snyder be suspended for a significant amount of time if the owners choose not to force them to sell.

There was information in there about a cover-up, about obstruction of the investigation itself by Snyder that had frustrated Beth Wilkinson to no end. This is what she was perhaps as upset with. We don't know the contents. We don't know if there's a smoking gun directly linking something untoward with Snyder. I'm sure there's a lot more on the culture, et cetera. but Tommy and I both felt the same way. The league, by the way, denied that they had gotten the investigation, which to me is irrelevant.

I don't care if they got the investigation or not. That's not the point. The point was the information that the junkies had about the recommendations and about Snyder having obstructed and influenced negatively and covered up somewhat the investigation attempt by Beth Wilkinson, who let's keep in mind. Snyder was the one that hired her initially, and then they turned that over to the league. So there was that story, Cooley, followed up by a story by Michael Phillips in the Richmond Times dispatch with also either Barstall or Pro Football Talk, or maybe a combination of both,

whereby the following has taken place. Number one is that Facebook ads were out promoting a story on a website about Dan Snyder's incredible generosity in his charitable donations. This website, when looked up, no owner of the website, no information on who runs the website, nothing, but Facebook ads driving people to this website to check out this very favorable story on Dan Snyder. And the other thing that Michael Phillips had is that on October 22nd, I think it was, 2020, a bunch of bot Twitter accounts were created, all of which have spent time saying super

nice things about Dan Snyder in the organization. And just, just for you, robot Twitter accounts, not purchased, because the first time he said, you said bot Twitter, I'm like, you buy. Well, basically, they're fake Twitter accounts that, you know, that are opened up, that look like real people own them, but they, they, they aren't. Yeah, they're BOTS. Yes, BOTS. So your reaction to both of those things?

I don't know if the, the Wilkinson report should be out or not. I don't know if that's part of the deal. You mean, it's done have come out. Yeah, it may not be made public. There's a lot of concern. Now, I can tell you right now, obstructing it, really enhances the possibility of it being leaked out because people get mad when you are

dishonest with people or there's a reason for them to believe they they leak that's the leak things easy any or this another side tangent but any organization that has leaks it's easy when things don't make sense or people don't agree with the philosophy and the culture then they get leaks create a strong culture whatever it was going to get leaked once a they obstructed. I don't know how I feel if that should be out or not. It's a lot of what she's getting is supposed to be private. People are giving her things thinking they're private. Yeah, you can Jane Doe. I never talked to Beth Wilkinson. I never talked to Beth Wilkinson. I don't know who she's talking to, what she's talking to. Anyways, whatever. I don't have much of an

opinion on that. Did they ever ask you? I don't think so, no. Okay. As far as the, Twitter accounts? Has anybody reached? This is a question that I have not asked you. So if you don't want to answer it, please do not answer it. I'm just curious with all of the stories in the post about the culture, and you just answered that Beth Wilkinson, nobody from her group has reached out to you to interview you for anything. She may have.

I went through a period of time where I didn't have a phone for like six weeks. Okay, but you don't know that she did. No. did anybody from the post? I didn't work like for everyone that think like I was there but I was like I know in my radio booth right I wasn't in the process of hiring people

managing people working with people I was my own entity in a radio booth and then I just started going out to the football field because I wanted to right but did anybody from the post ever call you? Yeah remember we talked about that I don't remember the cheerleader story I don't remember though I honestly don't

Yeah, there was like a quote from me with the cheerleader story, and they wanted to know about my history with dating the cheerleaders. And I honestly, I got to the point where I was like, frankly, I was 22, and I didn't think there was relevance to what I did that played into the role of what the cheerleaders was. They, it was, whatever. Well, you married her. Right. I mean, so you married that woman.

Um, okay. So anyways, on from that, no, I haven't really talked to anybody. I talked to them when the, the month before that came out. And it got to towards the end of the conversation. I'm like, I really don't want to be a part of this conversation. Right. I didn't, I didn't think what I, whatever. It's not my decision to determine what's news and what's not. But to me, I was like, I wish I would have never even taken the call. Right. Um, the bottom line is you didn't have enough of anything to really, help them with their story because none of what was discussed in that story involved you except for, you know, just the fact that you had married a cheerleader in the past a long time ago. Right. So, Christy. The robot thing. The bot thing. Well, wait a minute.

You're going to get caught doing that stuff. Oh, my God, exactly. Like, this is, go ahead. You're not, like, it doesn't matter if they got bot accounts. every third week. Someone's, everything's tracked. You're going to get caught doing that.

And if you don't think you're going to, you're crazy. There's not a boatload of people out there heavily promoting the owner. So if they're investigating anything on Twitter, and they're like, who are these 10 people that are hype and damn? Of course.

Because if you think of the nature of social media, if you don't work for him or have some reason to say, something really positive, a benefit of it, why do you want to take an onslaught of negativity on social media? Because that's what you're, like, if I tweet something incredibly positive about Dan, even if I feel that way, is it worth it to me to just get smoked on Twitter? My answer is no. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm in the business of doing what I believe in, but at the same time, I'm the business of not having thousands of people tell me I'm a piece of trash.

So when you think about human nature, think about the human nature of why people do social media. Essentially, it's like popularity or to feel good about yourself. No one wants to tweet that out to not feel good about themselves. No one does that. So anybody that's researching it is going to think about the nature of humans and be like, okay, who is this? Yeah. and they're going to figure it out. You're asking to get caught.

A couple things real quickly, because Michael Phillips followed up after Tommy and I did the podcast on Saturday with Washington had reached out to him to say that not only is this false, that Dan Snyder did not do this, but that there have been many bot campaigns against Dan Snyder, and they pointed to those as somehow relevant. It's irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what they,

they uncovered. And oh, by the way, you don't need bots out there. No one needs to create some sort of fake social media campaign against Dan Snyder. There's plenty of it out there legitimately. That whole hashtag fire Bruce Allen thing that trended for six months. Right. And all the Dan Snyder comments, bot related. Yeah, not really. But that is kind of funny. Like, right, like they're so detached from reality that apparently their follow-up with Michael Phillips included some sort of irrelevant. But let us give you the examples of the bot campaigns against us. Hey, that may be true, but it wasn't necessary. Okay. A positive social media, you know, influential campaign for you on behalf of you benefiting you is 100% necessary because nobody's out there doing it on

their own. But for every half of a person that does it on their own in a positive way, they're 99 and a half out there that are doing it in a negative way. So it's totally irrelevant. What I was going to just say, though, is this. I just, it's like, I want to believe that things are going to be different this time. And I do have a belief in Ron. I think I have more of a belief in Ron Rivera than even you do. I, you know, am fine with Mayhew and Herney. And, and, you know, And I think there's a professionalism. I think there's a recognition of the kind of people and character you need in an organization to build a sustained winner. I'm never going to be naive enough to think that the owner can't come in and screw the whole thing up.

Because, of course, that always exists as long as he owns the team. But to me, it's like, okay, they hired all these new people, you know, Jason Wright, and Julie, and all these different people. and a whole new social media campaign, and yet continues to be the same thing. They cannot execute with any level of competence. Like, how do you, if this was them, okay, and it may not have been them. It may have just been the one guy, Ivan,

who calls into the radio show all the time, that may be the only guy that ever calls into the show that loves Dan Snyder, that thinks Snyder's the best owner in the world, and always talks about what do you want? You want a winner, right? And he said the other day to me, he goes, the only thing we should be worried about is a winner.

And Dan Snyder wants to win, and I said, have you seen his record? It's precisely about winning. He hasn't won, and he's lost big. Well, here's the problem. Go ahead. What I was going to say is it just doesn't matter who is brought in. The fish rots from the head down. and everything about that rotting head permeates everything below it.

And to really, look, if this really was them, it's like you can't even do this right. Like seriously, the first thing I would have thought about is, okay, well, we can't, you know, do it all at once. It's got to be, you got to leak it out over a several month period. And it's got to, you know, whatever. Like, you can't have a fake website. We can't have a fake website. We've got to find somebody that can legitimately do the website that can't be linked back to us somehow.

It's like Cooley when I told you, and I read this letter on Friday for everybody again for like the second or third time. The letter that when the post story came out in July with all of the culture stuff, I mean Louis Shrek, all right, the senior vice president of sales and marketing. We all know Louis. We worked with Louis for years, and I'm sure this wasn't Louis' idea. but they send out a letter to all of their clients and all of their sponsors saying attached is the article that appeared in the post. This is the only legitimate reporting that's been done. All the other stuff, the internet rumors that you heard, that's not true. This is true.

Like, who would do that? Who would actually send that letter out thinking that nobody's going to see it to clients and sponsors? and people that they're generating revenue. Like, did they think, oh, we want to be totally transparent in case you didn't see this story? This story is the legitimate reporting, the one about the 15 women that claim that we had a culture of sexual harassment that was difficult for women. This one's good. It's the Jeffrey Epstein stuff that isn't. I just don't, I, Cooley, you've been much closer to it than we have, but a lot of us in the media, especially at the radio state,

because of the affiliation with Red Zebron as the flag chip. I just, over the years, it just sometimes I just, I'm just like, I can't believe they did it again. Like you and I always said, if they just gave us responsibility over handling the messaging, in our sleep we could have done a better job. But whatever. It's just one of those things where I think people come in and.

And what? maybe have ideas. He's like, nope, fix it now. Fix it or else. Okay, how do we fix it now? Well, we could do this bot thing. Not, sounds good. I like bots.

Do it. Bots. Oh, yeah, somebody did a bot campaign against me. Let's do it back to them. Okay. Get it out tomorrow. And on October 22nd, here it was. All of them came out, same time, basically saying the same thing.

it's like the messages are identical. Like there's no... Seriously though, whoever did create... And it might not have been them. They're denying it. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe whoever did.

Maybe someone did it to set them up. Somebody suggested that to me. Like they, because it's so, you know, shoddily done, so poorly done, so poorly executed, that maybe that was the, purpose was to make it look like it was them so that somebody would figure it out and say look at what Dan Snyder's doing that's a possibility it's a possibility definitely beth what i mean but again know it yeah i mean it's possible um okay uh but my point would be if the intent was for somebody to find

out like michael phillips to find out right about it and so we could once again talk about the level of incompetence again that person who did that you don't really need it. There's plenty of it out there. There's plenty of anti-Dan Snyder's sentiment out there. You don't have to be creative. It's all, it's all organic. It's all happening on its own.

No manufacturing necessary. Hey, let me ask you a question. Yes. Was it, was Beth Wilkins's, was it her onus to decide what he should do with the team? I think these investigations usually include a conclusion and a recommendation. I could be wrong about that, but I think that it usually involves conclusions and recommendations. Or, coolly, maybe, you know, there's a scope in which, you know, the league. Remember, Dan Snyder hired Beth Wilkinson to do it on his behalf, and then the league took it over, right?

So. But that also was like option F. Yeah, well, I mean... Like, we got to do, we have to do something. Yeah, no, no, no, you have to do something. Like when a NTAA team turns themselves in for recruiting violations, like, we're going to get caught here. Yeah. So let's turn ourselves in and...

No, they... A hundred per- Some of the blame. 100%. They needed to at least, you know, create the appearance that they are doing something about all these awful things that have taken place in the organization for so long. But, you know, Beth, Wilkinson is, you know, Tommy's skeptical about it being a league run investigation. You asked earlier about whether or not it'll be made public. That's a big story right now about, you know, many women

want to ensure that it's made public. And then there's also the issue of how many women, you know, were interviewed on the condition that their interview would be kept private. Well, you can Jane Doe those people. I had an attorney that's dealt in a lot of those things reach out to me and say, look, they really can't stop. They can say either this is a private reporter, I'm not going to be interviewed, which is fine. But if they are interviewed, really what they can ask for is to be non-identified. And you basically turn them into a person, you know, whose name can't be revealed who asked for anonymity. but you would still get what that person said. You would still get what that person claimed.

Bottom line is, I have no idea what's in the Wilkinson investigation. No idea. But if it is true, and I do believe that there's more likely than not truth to the junkies report, that she's pissed about the obstruction and about sort of a cover-up. You know, like Tommy and I talked about the other day, and go back and listen to Tommy's thoughts on it because I think they were spot on, a lot of them. The cover-up is all, you know, typically is what get you.

You know, sometimes it's worse than the actual, you know, crime itself. Hey, a couple of other things to finish up the show. Terps-related, also NBA All-Star-related, and Cooley, there's a new rule that the Ravens proposed that I need to pitch to you. I bet you haven't seen it yet. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. So the NBA All-Star game was last.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you I watch the whole thing. I was watching the Maryland game, which I'll give you a few more comments on here in a moment. But at the end of the first half, and I asked Cooley to watch it, at the end of the first half, team LeBron with Steph Curry and Dame Lillard, both on that team, finished off the first half with Dame Lillard shooting a half-court shot with 21 seconds left and draining it. And then Steph Curry coming back and draining a half-year-old. court shot with like two seconds left in the half. Now we've seen these guys hit bombs before.

That was insane, wasn't it, coolly? That's ridiculous. Yeah. They scored 100 points in the first half. The All-Star Games format, if you haven't followed it, and most of you probably haven't. They do like these quarter things, but then there's a running score of what's going on, and then in the fourth quarter they play to a number. Anyway, I'm not going to get into that. Bottom line is, at the end of the first half, I have a half in which team LeBron scored 100 points in the half, and team Durant scored 80. Damien Lillard makes a, you know, one foot inside half court jump shot, and then Steph Curry does the same thing with a couple of seconds left in the first half. So what I wanted to say

about this is that, first of all, to me, this is really cool to watch. First of all, the game itself, at least what I watched, I mean, it's the least amount of defense ever played, the least It was basically an exhibition, a Globetrotters exhibition for all intensive purposes. And they didn't want to play it. I'm glad they did. And for the league, they needed the money. They needed the night. Anyway.

So 15 years ago, Cooley, 20 years ago. Tommy and I have gotten into this conversation before. I don't know if you and I have. I've gotten into this conversation with people like Gary Williams and other people before. Yeah, I know the conversation. The shooting is so incredible. incredible now compared to the way it used to be. Now, there used to be great pure shooters. Don't get me wrong. And maybe just as good in terms of pure shooters, strokes, the whole thing. But what's

changed is how far back from the three-point line today's game goes. And it changes the whole geometry of the floor. It changes how hard it is to defend. You know, when Steph Curry can pull up from 35 feet and you got to go out and pick them up at 35 or 40 feet. It changes everything about how much the floor opens up. It's just like the zone read game in the NFL. You got to defend more field, more players. Exactly. So what you saw last night, though, was jump shots from half court. What's really to me, I understand that way back when the three-pointer team didn't shoot threes. The goal was to get the ball as close to the rim for what they used to call a high percentage shot. And now we're into three-point analytics in this era of shooting as many

threes, and the threes keep getting deeper and deeper. And to me, what's really amazing to watch is that there are jump shots taken from half court, whereas even 15 years ago, 10 years ago, a half-court shot was a heave. It was chucking it. It was, you know, with the dribble running into it and just launching it, you know, as much as you could just as a prayer. Now they're normal jump shots. It's interesting because there has to be a physical ability, a physical, you know, strength that exists that didn't exist back then. Curry and Lillard and LeBron and others shoot jump shots from half court. or he's not stronger than Charles Barkley.

I understand that. It's just a practice thing. It is a practice them. You know what? It is a practice thing. It is a practice thing with arc, with how it's released, with how much more legs, leg you get into that shot. Curry's in particular so pretty. He actually pushes it more, even though it comes off his fingertips.

But I just think it's interesting that not that long. ago. A half court shot was an absolute prayer of a shot. And now it's just Curry or Damian Lillard stepping into a normal jump shot form. It's crazy. Like what's the next step in the back court, like pulling up from 48 feet and shooting a jump shot? Well, Lillard shoots his with 22 seconds. I get it. It's an all-star game. Yeah, it's like it. It's like, it's a star game. It's like, it. If you're watching an All-Star game five years ago, you'd be like, what the hell is he doing? Exactly.

What are you doing, bro? Oh, no, don't worry. I make this about every third shot. I'll tell you, that's what makes this game entertaining. There's no doubt that's what makes this game entertaining, in my opinion. Yeah. Bradley Beale led the way for the team for Team Durant with 26 points.

I'm happy for him. Real quickly on the Terps loss before I get to this rule change that I just want to pitch Cooley on, see what his thoughts are on it. Maryland blew a 16 point first half lead, a 14 point second half lead. They didn't come out flat people. You don't come out flat and build a 16 point lead and a 14 point lead in the second half. They weren't flat. Their defense let them down, down the stretch one of the first times that has happened.

Offensively, Turgeon had issues in the second half. They really became very stagnant. The ball wasn't moving. He went with more ISO matchups, thinking that that would give him a better chance. They don't have low post options, as you know, for the most part, although Galen Smith had a couple of jump hooks in the first half. They gagged.

They flat out gagged a big lead and lost against a team that actually is much better than you think they are in Penn State. They're feisty. The Northwestern game on Wednesday night, they played poorly. They deserved to lose. Last night, they didn't play poorly for a lot of the game, but they were also playing a better opponent. And Penn State never stopped, never quit,

and then Maryland really couldn't stop them at the end and couldn't get good shots at the end. They missed two front ends of one-in-ones with their two best free-throw shooters, Aaron Wiggins and Eric Iala. That hurt. That's four points that they could have had. And it's a tough loss. Turgent called it one of the more difficult locker rooms he's been in in his entire career. This team was rolling.

They had won five in a row. A step-back game against Northwestern and this league isn't the worst thing in the world. But I think, you know, with a 16-point lead and a 14-point lead, that's a hard one to swallow, man. A hard one to swallow. It's hard to get swept by Penn State, no matter what Penn State's done. Penn State early in the year beat VCU. They're going to the tournament.

They beat Virginia Tech. They're going to the tournament. Early in the year, no one was closer to upsetting Michigan than Penn State. Penn State owns wins this year over Rutgers in Wisconsin and, you know, Maryland twice now. And they've got super close losses to people like Michigan State and Ohio State. They're a good team. I know their record doesn't indicate it, but they are a good team. But Maryland should have won the game.

They should have won the game, and they really, it was painful to watch, really painful, because they had a chance to, you know, continue to make their way seating-wise into maybe a seven spot, you know, with maybe one more win in the Big Ten tournament. They avoided, now they have to play Michigan State instead of playing Indiana in the second round on Thursday. It's a tough spot for them. I will tell you, they're in the tournament. You know, I know some of you are going to send me stuff with people saying they're really on the bubble and they've got to beat Michigan State. Joe Lannardi doesn't think they need to beat Michigan State.

They're 10 seed. They dropped one seed line. The thing that people don't understand is the bubble is super soft. Xavier lost last week to Georgetown and Marquette. A lot of teams are losing a lot of games here. And they're going to fill out the field anyway. They're going to put 68 teams in, even if you don't think 68 teams deserve it. So their resume is going to hold up on Selection Sunday.

I feel confident about that. The bigger issue that we all talk about is Turgeon. I think he's done a good job this year. I think last night wasn't his best night. I think it wasn't the team's best night. But this was a team picked to finish 10th or 11th in the Big Ten and not make the tournament this year. This was a team that was lacking in talent. you can blame him for that.

He missed out on some key transfers that would have really made this team a hell of a lot better. But I think he's gotten a lot out of this team. I think that going to the tournament, going 9 and 11 in the Big 10, going to the tournament for the sixth year out of seven, I think he's doing a good job. But I have been critical in the past, and I thought they got way too stagnant, and they really seemed to tighten up down the stretch. and he didn't have any of the answers. But it would not surprise me if they bounce back and play well against Michigan State,

although most of you would say Izzo is going to get revenge and is going to beat him. Michigan State beat Michigan. They've beaten three top five teams in the last two weeks, and their only loss was to Maryland by 18. So that's not true. They lost to Michigan, too, before beating Michigan yesterday. Anyway, that's it. You have anything on that?

You didn't watch it. They're going to be fine. I think they're a good team. I think they're tough. I think they battle. I think that they're going to be fine. We'll see. It could be that they have two games left in the season, you know, for all of you that say it's March. He never performs in March. You're right. The results are not good enough in March. You know, I've said it to him before. But I've also enjoyed, you know, the last seven years of at least being in the tournament, having a swinging chance. And the bottom line is, no matter what you think. And I understand. Yeah, but it's, didn't happen. Last year was his best team. Last year was a team capable of going to the final four. And if it did, we wouldn't be having any of these conversations about him. It's also possible that they could have lost in the second round last year, but not likely.

I think they were definitely a second weekend team last year. But, you know, let's see. I mean, the one concern I have is if they lose to Michigan State on Thursday, and it wouldn't surprise me if they do, they might have to play in one of those four. first four games, you know, to sort of get into the main draw as like one of the last four teams in. And that would be a shame. That would be a shame because a week ago after they beat Michigan State, they were trending towards a six or seven seed in the NCAA tournament. And now they're 10 in the latest Lunardi Bracketology. And that loss last night hurt. Much worse than the Northwestern loss. Much worse. That was really painful last night.

There were multiple opportunities. They were up 14 with nine minutes to go. Penn State came out, cut it to three. Maryland goes on an 11-0 run to extend it to 14. At the under-four timeout, they come out with their best free-throw shooter, Eric Iala at the line for the front end of a one-and-one to give him an eight-point lead, and he misses. Eight-point lead with three-and-a-half to go is a pretty good position to be in,

but he missed. They came down and scored, and it was a ball. game and they could not get anything to go down the stretch and they didn't they didn't run great stuff I thought the IAA so actually was good I think that's the kind of shot I was okay with Iala you typically is able to draw a foul in that spot or make a little you know six seven eight foot or whatever it was it wasn't um you know he's got size at six five just didn't get done and then they left that guy Lundy open on the other end which was a killer Lundy at 31 he was unconscious uh anyway that's it on that. After this next break, we will finish up the show with this Baltimore Ravens

proposal. I talked about the Ravens proposal on the overtime rule at the end of the podcast that I did with Tommy the other day, but I really wanted to talk to Cooley about it and we'll do that to finish up the show right now. So Cooley, I know you've looked at it a little bit. It's called Spot and Choose. The Ravens have proposed this significant change to the NFL overtime where basically the team that wins the toss is able to pick the spot where the ball will be put into play or choose to take the ball or go on defense, whichever one they want. So if one team that wins a toss says, we're going to pick the spot, it's going to be the 20-yard line, then the opponent has the choice of whether to play offense or defense to start the overtime.

point of this is to minimize the impact of the coin toss. You know, the coin toss would only be used to give the team that wins the toss the right to pick either the spot of the ball or to choose offense or defense. This is really radical in terms of an NFL rule change. Yeah, but it's got a great name. Spot and shoes? They branded it really well. Okay.

So what do you think? Spot and shoes. What do you think of? sounds great. It's interesting. So if you pick a spot on the field, so let's say you pick the 35, then the other teams gets to pick whether to play offense or defense. Yeah. So you would pick offense, right? Well, yeah, if you pick the 35, you'd take offense. Probably not going to pick the 35. Yeah, it's going to end up being, but people are going to figure out the exact spot to pick and what to do most of the time.

It really... Right. It's essentially going to be like someone's going to just say, we want this spot, this is the best spot to take. It's going to be different. It's going to be, I think, very different in every game. And I'll give you a couple of examples. Let's say you're playing the Chiefs or you're playing the Packers.

Okay? First of all, there's no way you want to give Mahomes or Rogers the ball to start overtime where they could score a touchdown. touchdown and end-over time, right? Unless you think giving them the ball at their own one-yard line is something that they can't do, that they can't go 99 yards. But the problem with picking the one-yard line or the five-yard line is they may choose to go on defense first.

So if you're playing Kansas City, I think no matter what, you take the ball. because even if you pick the one yard line, Mahomes can take them 99 yards, right, to end the game. So you take the ball, and then, you know what, if you take the ball, the other team is going to start you with the one yard line. They're going to say, all right, your own one yard line, have at it. It's if you're playing a really bad offensive team, and it's 10 to 10, and you're in overtime,

and you haven't scored much either, and you choose defense, and then they choose, I mean, you choose offense, and then where are they going to choose? They're going to choose the one yardland. If you choose defense, where are they going to choose? I mean, if you're playing a real bad defensive team, you probably want to give them the ball. I don't. There's so much to think about here.

I think it's too busy. It's very busy. I think it's too busy to just. immediately integrate. It's not going to pass, I don't think. I mean, I guess to some extent, it's like

you're sitting at a black tech table with a 16 and you've got to choose whether they're hitting stitters. See a lot of tens out. No, it's not. Because one is absolute in terms of what the right strategy is. There's no context to hit the ball or not.

Take the ball. It's Just so I understand this, if you win the toss, you can pick the ball, offense, or you can pick the spot, right? You can pick where the ball starts and then the other team gets to select offense or defense or you can select offensive defense and then the other team picks the spot. So I'm going to put the ball on the 15. You got to take the ball, essentially, unless your offense is terrible and your defense is great.

If I'm, if I give you the ball on the, let's even call it the 18, inside the 20. Yeah. You have to take the ball, correct? You don't have to take the ball. No, what do you do? You don't have to. If you... So if I say 18, you're like, okay, we'll play defense first.

You take the ball on the 18. Yeah, exactly. You have to put the ball inside the 50, right? I haven't seen the parameters there, but obviously you can't choose defense and have the other team then start at your one yard line, obviously. I haven't seen, that's a really good point. I've not seen what the other part of the rule is, but that makes sense, right? Because if you choose rather than spot and you choose defense, well, the other team is then

going to get offense, they're not going to say, oh, we're going to start at your one yard line. I think you have to choose the, if you win the toss, you choose the spot of the ball. the other team chooses offense or defense. Because if you were to just come out and choose offense, then I'm putting you on the one. No, you get, yeah, that's why there has to be some limitation on, you know, the part of the field that you can choose. Well, yeah, but you, I mean, no, here it is. I think you. No, the explanation, okay, the explanation of spot and choose is one team picks the spot of the ball and the other team chooses to

play offense or defense. Yeah. So if you don't pick offense first, it's spot. No, if you win the toss, you get to pick spot or choose. You get to choose offense defense or pick the spot. I'm sorry, this is so dumb. Yeah. The rest

of it, by the way, touchdown first drive, you know, field goal extends, 10 minutes stays the same. But no, you're right. There has to be, and I haven't seen this, like I'd like to really read through it. probably should have. There has to be a limit, there has to be a range

on the spot. You know, it's got to be like from the 10 to the 35 or something like that. Your own. You can't start in the other team's territory after you've chosen defense. Right.

It's believed that the break-even point would be the 13-yard line. For the 14 or beyond, the team choosing offense or defense will more likely take the ball. For the 12, or closer, the team choosing offense or defense will be more likely to opt to defend. Obviously, however, the final decision will hinge on a variety factors regarding offensive and defensive personnel, weather conditions, range and accuracy to kickers of both teams,

etc. Anyway, whatever. Are we done for the day? I don't like it. What's the other option? Here's the other option. There's another one that says a team would take the ball with seven minutes. in 30 seconds, there's no sudden death component.

Oh, God. So you have a seven-minute 30-second overtime with no sudden death component. Right. That's stupid because then if you got the ball, you're just going to run the ball. Well, this is the 10-minute thing that I've suggested before. I'd move it back to 15 minutes. You can have a drive, and we've seen this. That's seven and a half minutes, and then you get held to a field goal.

You know, you get stopped at the two-yard line. You kick a 19-yard field goal, and it's, you know, 20 to 17 in overtime. and the other team gets it, but now they've only got two and a half minutes left because that drive took you seven and a half minutes, which we see all the time. And even if you've got timeouts and even the two-minute warning, you know, it's still not ample time to have a normal drive to score touchdown to win the game. That's why I'd go to 15 minutes. I'd keep the rule the same.

I'd extend it back to 15 minutes. They took five minutes off for safety reasons. The bottom line is, I think, 85% of overtime game. never make it beyond the 10-minute mark anyway. Well, I think if you wanted to keep the 10-minute rule, you should have three full-timeouts. Yeah, you get two in the extra session. I agree with that.

If you want to do that... Because you're saving your timeouts for the fourth quarter in a normal game, so you should be able to have... It's just like another fourth quarter, essentially. Except it's... So you should at least have the third timeout. I agree. You know what? If they said we're not going to extend to 15 minutes, but we're going to give a third time out, I think that that would be fair. I haven't heard anybody push back on my pushback, so I don't even think this is a league issue. You know, I just know that we see many drives in the course of a football game that end up being 17 plays, 8 minutes and 14 seconds. And yeah, the other team could start using their timeouts on defense. in the event that they hold you to a short field goal.

But the bottom line is when you get it back with two minutes or less, you don't have the same chance to score a touchdown on a normal kind of drive. Especially if you're Baltimore. That the other team had. Which is probably why this Baltimore is the proposal. Like if you're a Baltimore, a running style football team, you're like, Right. What am I supposed to do here with?

Right. Exactly. Three minutes if I really need to run the ball. Yeah, now what I'm in a position of doing is just trying to get into field goal range to tie the game so that it ends up in a tie. Because to go, to go, 75 yards after you kick it off into the end zone, in a minute 49, after I burn two timeouts or 212 left, and I'm a running team, I just don't have the same opportunity you did. And I guess the argument would be, well, then you should have stopped them earlier. You shouldn't let them go on an eight-minute drive. 17 plays.

Okay. But how about... That's a great argument, but they did. I think it's... I will say this. If you went to spot and choose, there would be a lot of question decisions here in the next couple years. It would be a heyday for you.

I'll be honest with you. It's hard for me to even fathom, you know, the right strategies now. Because to me, in overtime, given that the first possession, if you score a touchdown, it's game over. If you've got a decent offense, I want the ball. I want the ball.

But if I'm going to get it at my own one-yard line, if that's part of the rule, then... No, you have to pick the spot first. Just so, you know, if you're winning the toss, I guess if you won the toss, could you defer so the other team had to pick the spot? So you're saying the spot has to be picked first. Well, yeah, it has to be picked first.

It doesn't. It makes sense, but that's not the way I read it. Okay, again, I don't care if the rule says it. If I take the ball, I'm Kansas City, I still don't want the ball in the one. Right. So I have to pick the spot. Right. So if you win the toss, could you defer?

So the other team must pick the spot. So then you essentially know you're going to take offense. Yeah. But then that other team is going to pick the ball. backed up. I mean, so, but if you defer, you can't defer it. What would you choose? What, what would you choose? I put the ball on, depending on the team, I'd put the ball somewhere between the 20 and the five as a spot. If it's Kansas City, because if I'm sitting there as a head coach and you're like, okay, do you want the ball on, on the 12 yard line? Yep, I do. I, I'd rather,

I can win with the ball. I can't win with that. out it. There is something interesting about overtime when a game goes to overtime. And let's just say you lost the toss and you're kicking off and somehow you kick it and they only get the ball out or they have a return and there's a holding and they're going to start from their own 12. You really do feel like you have an advantage. All we got to do is get a stop here. We'll get the ball back and two first downs later and we're in field goal range. End of game. But you can't feel that. good about, you know, facing the Packers or the, you know, the Chiefs or teams that are super explosive that, you know, go 88 yards and five minutes all the time.

There's, are you sure that the team that wins the toss has to pick the spot? No, I'm not saying that they have to, but what I'm telling you is if you, okay, Kevin, you and I are playing. You win the toss. Take offense or defense. No, I know. Offense. Okay, you're on the one. Exactly. Defense. Okay. I'm on the one.

Right. So you have to pick the spot. Yeah, and I guess deferring that if you win the toss is an option. See, it isn't a good one, though. No, because then they're going to pick the spot. Right. I mean, deferring would be fine, I guess, the way you look at it. Hey, you know what? Let's figure out a way that we don't get these bogus roughing the passer calls. And let's figure out a way where a defense of hold on third and 19 isn't an automatic first down.

By the way, on the roughing the passer, apparently one of the proposals is that roughing the passer would be reviewable. Because there have been some bullshit roughing the passers, no doubt. It would be highly subjective, though. but yeah and it's going to be just like the pass interference where there's even a bump or a touch the officials don't want to be wrong on that call so they're like yeah no it's still roughing he hit it he touched him yeah i mean it's the roughing the passer i still believe should be egregious and called or not egregious and find after the fact I agree with that totally. If it's an obvious like it always was, it's roughing the passer. But if a guy gets, a defensive lineman is falling down and gets shoved into the legs.

Right. Can't flag that. Just find them. Let's go ahead and leave it as it is. And if we feel like watching it 100 times on Monday that he crawled into the quarterback's legs, then we'll go ahead and find the day. dude. All you're trying to do is eliminate it from the game.

Penalizing an entire team for a lot of times, accidents or minute slips that are not intent, isn't taking it out of the game. It's just hurting the game. So find them afterwards. No one wants to lose their money. So they're going to try not to do it

if they're getting fined for it. I promise you right now, I promise you, that if I fall into the passer, I'm a D-Linman, I don't give a shit about the penalty. I'm like, God damn it, that's a 50 grand tomorrow. Yeah.

I don't give, like, obviously I don't want to hurt my team. Right, but it's not your fault. But the rest of the guys on the team are like, bro, that's stupid. That should have been called. I'm like, I know it's stupid, but who's paying my 50 grand? Right. Period. They don't care about the penalty.

The penalty hurts the game. It actually, in my opinion, glorifies the aggressive. of it or magnifies the aggressive. Oh, look at physical tough game. Oh, man. So many things can happen to you because they're calling penalties on all these things. Let it roll. Keep it. If you determine afterwards that maybe he needs a fine, find him. All right. One last idea on rules after I tell you real quickly, it's gearing up to be a great month for sports and by extension a great month to make some great money, extra money with My Bookie. With March Madness right around the corner, my bookie's offering a shot at a share.

of $10,000 with the My Bracket contest, and it's only a single dollar for entry. Plus, there's a ton of NBA action on tap, and they've got not one, but two UFC pay-per-view cards to bet on. Regardless of your favorite player team, you've got the choice from thousands of lines and prop bets on all major sports, and it's all in one place at MyBooky. Do yourself a favor. Get a head start by signing up today. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and MyBooky will match your first deposit halfway up to a thousand bucks. That's free cash, credited to your account instantly on top of your deposit. The best part is you always have access to the action, whether you're at home or on the go. Visit the website online or on your

phone at mybooky.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to grab yourself a deposit bonus. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with MyBooky. If you've already got a site totally worth it, take their free money. Have another place to comparison shop on point spreads and pricing, etc. MyBooky.ag, use my promo code. Please, Kevin, D.C. You and I have talked about this a million times. Last thought. I would make defensive holding a 10-yard penalty and not an automatic first down, period. Do the college rule. I can't stand. Nothing's more frustrating for me as a football fan. other than, you know, 15-yard roughing the, you know, roughing penalties or unsportsman-like, you know, late-hit penalties that aren't. I hate that.

I hate the legislation of the big hits out of the game. But I can't stand third and 19. Quarterback gets immediately pressure, dumps it into the ground. It's fourth and 19. They're punting. And we get a flag on a DB that held away from the ball when there was no chance for a completion. 10 yards and now it's fourth and nine, third and nine. That needs to be, I think that rule is way, way overdue at this point.

Yeah, I think it's way overdue as well. I see so many DBs hold every game and they can't help themselves and they can't stop doing it. And I think there's, I think it's way over-called in a lot of instances. And I also think there are enough instances where it's minimal. and it's like the automatic first down is ridiculous. Some of it ends up being too subjective, some of it's too tough, like to give a first down on a third and 18,

it's bad for the game. It's just bad for the game. It's not good football to have that happen. Period. I agree. So take that out. We've talked about this for the last five years. I actually think,

especially if it's within five yards of, the line of scrimmage, that it should be a five-yard penalty. So, the third and ten, third and nine, that hold occurs within five yards of scrimmage where they're trying to jam and press and tight man-to-man coverage and they slip and grab a bit of Jersey or something happens right there. Now it's third and four. I think within five yards, it's hard to say it's a 10-year penalty. But you can't create a situation where you give incentive to a DB who's going to be badly beaten

to just reach out and hold on purpose because third and four is better than getting beat for a big one. And then I guess you're saying that's the quarterback's prerogative to throw it at that dude. Well, I just think that that's where 10 yards typically more times than not is going to result in the first down. But on the third and super longs that get bailed out with a defensive hold or an illegal contact, that shouldn't be happening. You know, it's happened way too much in recent years where that's so far away from the play. And I get it that it's not that it's not so far away from that official who's doing the thing he thinks he's supposed to do and calling in a lot of times the right penalty. But if that was not going to affect the play at all, I hate that.

All right. Cooley will be back this week. We are less than a week away now or just about a week away. from hearing about a lot of free agent deals. So he will have, I'll have thoughts on what Washington should be thinking about, who they should be thinking about in free agency. So look forward to that later on in the week. Tommy will be with me tomorrow. Have a great day, everybody.

Thanks, Chris. See you, Kev.