The Kevin Sheehan Show - Cuts Looming + Santana Part 2

Episode Date: August 30, 2021

Pretty much a Washington Football Team show start to finish. Kevin on Terry McLauren's league standing heading into 2021. Plenty on the changing culture as the regular season nears. And then, Santana Moss Part 2 with stories of Sean Taylor along with his thoughts on this year's team. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. How about that hurricane over the weekend, slamming into the Louisiana coast? You know, we're going to get the remnants of Hurricane Ida midweek this week, Wednesday and Thursday, and it's going to totally change the weather pattern. By next weekend, Labor Day weekend or this upcoming weekend,

highs in the upper 70s to low 80s, lows in the upper 50s to low. 60s at night with very low humidity. I'm starting with weather, I guess, today. I didn't intend on doing that, but I'm sitting here in my studio recording this podcast, watching the Weather Channel, and remembering yesterday, as I was tuned into a lot of it during the weekend,

maybe many of you were as well, watching Jim Cantori use all of his strength to fight off the winds of Hurricane Ida, As in one of the shots, a couple of dudes and T-shirts were like five yards behind him, and they seemed to be barely even phased. It seems like, as I record this podcast, that New Orleans got off pretty lightly compared to what some of the fears were. They've really built that city up, the levees, to handle this kind of category for Hurricane after 16 years ago and what Katrina did. But it makes for really compelling television incredible ratings. I don't know if you guys know that.

These hurricanes are gold for the networks. I know that they are obviously benefiting from tragedy. But the ratings this weekend for the Weather Channel and for CNN and those that were covering hurricane basically, you know, minute by minute, will be through the roof. Weather events always do that for television. television networks. But I do hope that everybody, you know, did much better than anticipated. I know some of those areas like Homa, Louisiana, and Grand Isle really took the brunt of it. And I'm sure that even in the New Orleans metro area, it wasn't great. I don't even know why I started with weather. I think one of the reasons was is that, again, this upcoming weekend is going to feel like the

beginning of fall. It's not technically the fall. It feels like fall when we get to Labor Day. weekend. And with Labor Day weekend comes the beginning of football season. Now, we had a couple of college games over this past weekend, but I can't wait for football season. I'm talking about real football. The preseason is over, thankfully. And man, did NFL teams handle the first three game preseason in a variety of ways. I have no idea which way was right and which way was wrong, and perhaps there's not even a right or wrong. answer to this. Ron Rivera's way was to sit everybody Saturday night against the Ravens. To ensure they get to the opener on September 12th against the Chargers, healthy.

John Harbaugh took the other route and lost his starting running back J.K. Dobbins for the year to a torn ACL. Tom Brady was out there with his defending Super Bowl champion team slinging balls against the perceived worst team in the league Houston the other night. Aaron Rogers didn't take a snap in the entirety of the preseason. Nor did Justin Herbert, who will start for the Chargers here on September 12th. He and pretty much every other star player for the Chargers sat all three games, while Buffalo's Josh Allen the other day threw 26 passes on three drives in the first half in Buffalo's win over the Packers. I mean, we could sit here and argue and debate and discuss this topic and which way is right and which way is wrong until we're blue in the face.

I'm not really interested in it. Very rarely, if ever, do we get into this kind of discussion, end of regular season in December or January, I'm talking about, oh, if they just would have handled August differently. Unless, of course, there's like a serious August injury in a preseason game, like J.K. Dobbins, or worse if you were to lose, you know, a starting quarter. a really good starting quarterback that has season-long implications. But anyway, we get real football this weekend with a full slate of college games, and then the NFL season opens up September 9th, a week from Thursday night in Tampa,

the reigning champs against the Cowboys. That game, by the way, is going to be an absolute television ratings monster. Brady and the Buccaneers against the Cowboys on Thursday night. football to open up this season. It's a game that's going to be interesting for us and for the division. By the way, if you care, and I do not, the NFC East won just one game in the preseason. They were one 11 and one overall. Philadelphia had a tie, a 31-31 tie on the other night. The lone win in the division was Washington's thrilling 17 to 13 win over the Bengals. a week ago, a Bengals team without Joe Burrow playing for Cincinnati.

On the show today, on the show today, the second part of my conversation with Santana Moss, a lot of you reached out to tell me how much you enjoyed the first part from Friday. Today, you'll hear him for another 30 minutes tell stories, including one about Sean Taylor. He's also going to share his thoughts on this year's team and how good of a season this team will have this. year. So that's coming up shortly. A heads up for later in the week, the first smell test of the year. Year 16 for the smell test. 11 winning seasons, four losing seasons. I finished last year. I was looking at this the other day because I remembered that I really finished up strong in the playoffs. I was nine and four in the postseason last year. Four and O, four and dough on Super Bowl Sunday.

I gave out the bucks, I gave out the under in the game in the Super Bowl. I gave out the under in the first half, and I gave out the bucks in the first half. All four of those hit. I also went three and one on conference championship weekend. So it was a seven and one finish to last year, and that locked up another winning season, record-wise anyway. I'm very aware of the percentage needed to actually win money. But I ended up with a winning season, and that is 11. winning seasons, four losing seasons in the 15 years. I can't believe it's been 15 years

that I've been doing the smell test. So the first smell test of the year later this week, it will be sponsored by our good friends at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. It's safe. It's reliable. It's a cost-effective place to wager. They're matching dollar for dollar on your first ever deposit if you use my promo code, Kevin D.C. My bookie's got so many ways for you to bet football. at least go there and check out what they've got for this upcoming weekend and then week one of the NFL season. Currently, the Chargers at MyBooky are still one-point favorites in the opener against Washington.

Washington's over-under-win total for the year is still eight and a half at MyBooky. You can check out all of their NFL prop bets for the upcoming season. Go to MyBooky at MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. Just a reminder, subscribe, doesn't cost you anything, helps us. Rate us and review us, especially on Spotify and Apple. Rate us five stars and write a one-sentence review telling them how much you like the show. If you don't like the show, then why are you listening?

But if you are listening and you just kind of like it, you know, rate us four and a half stars. But five stars would be better. And then maybe lay off the review. It helps us if you can do that. I've mentioned that before, and I appreciate those that have stepped up and done it for me. It's a revenue generator for us. You can sell advertising based on the loyalty and the enjoyment of the show, in addition to the size of the audience of the show.

So I wanted to get to a few things before we get to Santana Moss Part 2. The NFL Network finished up their top 100 players for the episode. coming season. That's the list of top 100 voted by the players. And then ESPN just did their own top 100. I'm bringing it up because on the NFL network's top 100, if you recall, Brandon Sheriff came in at 98 and Chase Young came in at 61 and there was no Terry McClureen on the list. And I thought it was a joke because guys like Cole Beasley and Corey Davis were on the list. And Terry McLaren wasn't. I thought that that. That was a big whiff on the NFL Network's players list.

But whatever, it's a popularity contest, similar to the Pro Bowl, the NFL Networks list. Well, ESPN had their list. Chase Young came in at 31, 30 spots ahead of where he was on the NFL network list. Brandon Sheriff came in at 70, 28 spots ahead of where he was on the NFL network list. and Terry McClure was in the top 100. Not only was he in the top 100, he came in at number 73. The NFL network list had 19 receivers on their list with no Terry McClorn, meaning that Terry McLorn at best was the 20th best receiver in the NFL,

according to his contemporaries, the players that play in the league. The ESPN list had Terry as the 14th. best wide receiver in the league. And it got me to thinking this morning a little bit more. We had this conversation. I know I've had it on the radio show, but it got me to thinking, you know, just seriously, like right now, where would I have Terry McClearn? I've guessed between 10 and 15, maybe closer to 15 than 10. And I think 14 is about right. I thought about this and I went through, you know, every single team's roster. And I think there are 12 receivers. that I would definitely take before McClure.

And then I think there are another two to three that would be in the mix with him. You know, where they're sort of coin flips. So, you know, I would have him somewhere between 13 and 15. Here are the 12, by the way. Here are the 12 that I would take in front of him without, you know, really giving it even a remote

consideration of taking Terry over any one of these 12 guys. The first four I put in order of how I would choose them, and the rest, the other eight, are in any random order. But Tyreek Hill is one, Devante Adams is two, Hopkins is three, Stefan Diggs is four. Those are the top four receivers in the league in that order, in my opinion. Hill, I think, is the number one explosive weapon in the league. I think he's the most uncheckable offensive player in the league. And I think his quarterback would be number two. But Hill, Devante Adams, all right, DeAndre Hopkins, Stefan Diggs are my top four in that order. And then in no real order, the next date are

Julio Jones, A.J. Brown, Keenan Allen, Alan Robinson, Michael Thomas, when he's healthy, obviously, Mike Evans, D.K. Metcalfe and Amari Cooper. Those are the top 12 for me. I wouldn't think twice I would take those 12 guys before McLorn. Now, then you get into the Justin Jeffersons and the Calvin Ridleys, and we can start to debate. But I think, you know, the list that ESPN has with him coming in at 14 feels about right. These lists are fun to debate. I think on that list of receivers that I would take in front of them,

all of those guys have better quarterback situations than Washington. All of them. You know, maybe with the exception, I guess Alan Robinson, QBs in Chicago. You know, Justin Fields could turn out to finally be the answer for Chicago at quarterback, even though Dalton is starting the year. But I think every other receiver on the list of 12 that I would take, other than Alan Robinson, has a great quarterback situation.

And the point is that all those receivers are talented, but they pretty much all have good to great quarterbacks. You know, there are guys like Terry McClorn that you would start to think about, you know, in the next year or, you know, too if they get better quarterback play guys like Jerry Judy in Denver or DJ Moore in Carolina. And there are a few more that with better quarterbacks would be a part of the conversation too. Anyway, Terry McClureen gets some preseason recognition, which is great. And if you're paying attention, he clearly produced in a situation last year that was much

different than the situation that most of those guys ahead of him or even slightly behind him on those lists had. I'm looking forward to a big year for Terry McClearn. You know, he is one of this team's A-level talent players. Think about this. McClorn, Young, Sheriff, Sweat, Tressway are all no-debat, A-level category NFL talents. Five of them on this team. I think you could say the near same about Doreen. pain, but I'll let that one slide. I'm not going to mention Fuller or Jackson yet, but Fuller is close.

5A level players is the most for this franchise since 2000, maybe since 1991. When we have a conversation evaluating this team, you know, comparing it to any teams in their recent past or teams that they will play this year or compete with this year, you can start by saying they've got a chance because their roster has more elite-level talent than it's had in forever. All right, a couple of things, Washington football team related, or a couple of more things. I want to let you know something, I want to let you know something that I learned over the weekend, and then a few things that I think about the Washington football team.

First, what I learned. Ron Rivera said yesterday about the final. roster and the game on Saturday night that four jobs were available going in to that game the other night against the Ravens and that six may have been determined. Nope, not true. That's nice of him to say. It builds up the competition level and it makes it seem like they were sweating it out the other night evaluating every block and tackle and drop back and pass pro and kick return as if the competition was so close in so many spots that the game, that we watched the other night that was dreadful to watch and that they were coaching in

was somehow the determining factor for up to six roster spots? No, it's not true. They had 51 to 52 locked and loaded before Saturday night. Perhaps, perhaps one to two spots may have been determined on Saturday night or a day or two leading into Saturday night. And maybe one of those could be an injury-related determination. It's nice to say to the players you are releasing today, tomorrow, Tuesday, or today and tomorrow, hey, man, it was so close. And by the way, I'm not debating that it was probably very competitive at a lot of positions. What I am telling you is that Saturday night did not determine six spots. You're really naive if you believe that to be true. That's what I learned over the weekend. A few things that I think off of this weekend. That sounds a lot

like that Peter King column where he used to say, you know, things that I think, I think the grande blueberry tapioca latte at Starbucks is really good. Anyway, that's not what I'm trying to do here. I think a couple of things just off of this weekend. Just a couple of random thoughts. I think that Troy Apkey's going to make the roster. You know, that's not a final 53 man take for me. That's a week in a half ago take when it wasn't that popular. And I just think that there's no chance that he gets cut. And maybe he's already cut by the time you listen to this. But that's what I think right now. I also think that they want very badly to keep Dax Milne. You know, it's a matter of DeAndre Carter, AGG, and Milne.

You know, two of the three make it, the third. They try to bring back to the expanded practice squad. I think that's where they are right now. If a spot was determined the other night, I think it's in this particular area. And I don't know if it was tomorrow night or Saturday night. that it was determined, but it was probably a couple of days leading in to Saturday night, and then maybe something from the game Saturday night turned somebody, you know, definitively in one direction or the other.

But I think that they really want to keep Dax Milne. So I think if he makes the team, it's not going to be a massive surprise to me. Lastly, if you missed the show yesterday, I think DeAndre, I think Dustin Hopkins is safe. He's your kicker today, tomorrow, September 12th, September 16th against the Giants, and then, you know, they can reassess if he's got a bad start to the season. They would have 12 days between the giant game and the Buffalo game from that Thursday night to the following Sunday if Hopkins has a rough start to the season. Many of you reached out to me on Twitter and even a couple of friends of mine said,

what about the guy Joey Sly from Carolina that Rivera coached? He got released by the Panthers. For those of you that really like Sly, he's got a huge leg. But he hasn't been that great either. He's made less than 80% of his field goals. And he missed, and I remember this, because I had Carolina on the money line this day. He missed a 28-yarder in the Superdome in 2019 against the Saints that would have given the Panthers a huge upset win, and at the time it would have given them a winning record heading into the month of December.

They would have been very much in the playoff race in the NFC. Instead, they lost that game, they lost the next game, which was to Washington, and Rivera was fired. Up next, something Ron Rivera said about landing Collins last week, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. The second part of my conversation on Friday with Santana Moss coming up. I wanted to play some sound that I meant to play for you on Friday from Ron Rivera and offensive coordinator Scott Turner. First, this was Ron Rivera talking about Landon Collins and sort of the culture of the roster. Listen carefully.

Landon Collins talked to us yesterday about how so much has changed in his time here and you guys didn't come in at the same time, but how he noticed all the construction you've done with the roster. Where do you think you are as you mold this franchise the way you want it to be? I think we're headed in the direction we want to be headed. And we like the quality of the young man we have on this football team. You know, we believe there's a guys that fit the way we want to do things. You know, Land has done a great job, you know, adjusting.

I mean, he's gone through three different systems. You know, he started, you know, somewhere else and ended up here. So he's a guy that we feel really good about. I appreciate the fact he's noticed it because, you know, one of the things we are trying to do we're trying to change things and put things in a position where, you know, we accomplished what our intent is, and that is to build a sustainable winning culture. And hopefully he can continue to be part of it because he's done such a good job for us. Landing Collins came around to the Rivera Way. You know, he knew that it was either the Rivera Way or it was going to be the highway for him.

That's a good sign. You know, it's a good sign of growth, maturity, whatever you want to call it. I think he's got a chance to have a major impact on this season. For a team that was inconsistent in their run-stopping defense last year, he could be a big part of it. He could be a huge playmaker for this team. I think defensively for them, he is one of those, like, he's a major wild card. If he ends up being the player that they hoped he would be when they signed him to the biggest deal ever,

what a game changer for this defense. to have that kind of a player added to what they have already. I also, you know, for Rivera in that answer that he gave, we've heard starting last year, and maybe even increasing this year, him refer to sustainable winning culture. I've talked a lot about this in the past, that the NFL's designed for any team in any situation to have a good year, but one good season does not make a good franchise.

you know, sustained winning over a period of time makes a good franchise. But to do that, you've got to have the right cultural philosophy that leads to not just bringing in good talent, but good team players, good people, people that you can sustain winning with. Who knows if it ultimately works out? The owner is still here, and he's been a two-decade destructive force working against sustainable winning culture. but Ron Rivera gets it. He's totally capable of being the right guy right now in the right moment for a franchise that's been in the dark ages for a long time. He's totally capable of left to his own way of doing things to take this franchise out of that darkness.

He can do it. Let's hope and pray that he's allowed to do it his way, you know, over the next few years. Dan, leave him the F alone. You had the right guy with Marty. you screwed that up. You had the right guy with Joe, and while you think you stayed away, you and Vinny were too involved in personnel.

You had the right guy in staff with Mike, and you've got the right guy and staff with Ron. This time, please God, stay out of it. Go get on your boat, stay there for a few years, and come back and see what this group did. This was another Ron Rivera quote that I was going to play for you on Friday,

but we ran out of time. He talked about the maturity of the team that he's building and the benefit of playing the games they played at the end of last year. Listen to this. You want to have success early, and you have to have the right kind of success early. And that's one of the things that, and I know I mentioned yesterday and I mentioned again,

it goes to the whole maturity thing. You know, you want to make sure we are where we need to be maturity-wise, because again, if we come in with the wrong attitude, we'll get our butts kicked. Success. If you have success and it's premature and it builds this error about you that's not right, you get your butt kicked. I mean, truthfully. But to me, the kind of success we had can be the right kind of success because,

and I know I talked about this after the season, we played a lot of young guys during some stressful times in seven games in the regular season, the last seven. We won five of those two, and we were in playoff mode each one of those games, because you had to win, we had to win, we had to put ourselves in the position, we had to win to stay ahead, we had to win to stay ahead, and we did at the end. To me, that's, you know, you went through a tough situation, you found an ability to reach down and find something to help you get through that, and that's stuff you build on.

But if, you know, for whatever reason, we come out and say, we arrive, man, we got this, then we're not going to get better. We're not going to go back and learn from the basics. We're not going to understand what it takes to get back to where we need to be. That's what I'm concerned about. I want to feel good about when we get ready to play that first game, first regular season game. So there are two things that stand out from that sound bite from Rivera last week. Number one is this.

He thinks that the experience of playing those win or go home games late in the season with a young team was a good thing. I totally agree with that. We all talked about that at the end of last year. Some of you wanted the better draft positioning because you thought making the playoffs and a bad division and losing in the first round that there wasn't much benefit to that. He does. He thinks there's benefit. I agree with him. Playing in those pressure late season games is a great experience.

However, and this was the second part of the sound clip that I wanted to discuss, he also recognizes that each year is its own entity. I mean, I've talked so often over the years about the NFL being a week-to-week league. Well, we know that so much changes year to year. I mean, all you've got to do is look at every single season, and there's a team that inexplicably goes the wrong way or the right way from the year before. And it's not always because of major player changes or coaching changes or, you know, big time injuries. Sometimes it's just the team that you saw last year isn't the team that you see this year. For whatever reason, you see that every single year. You know, if you look at last year, Houston was a playoff team that had a 24 to nothing lead in a playoff game, you know, in the 2019 season at Arrowhead.

And then they were one of the worst teams than the league last year. went from a playoff team in 2019 to a four-win team in 2020. Now with them, it was a lot of injuries. Miami went from tanking in 2019 to 10 and 6th and on the doorstep of the playoffs last year. And then Washington, obviously, 3 and 13, to a division winner and a team that was playing pretty good football at the end of last year. Minnesota went from a final four NFC team in 2019 with an exceptional defense to one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year and a seven-win non-playoff team. It's like this every year.

And Ron understands that while there's huge value, which I agree with in getting that big game feel experience, you know, the benefit of playing with pressure to win or go home, he also knows that that feeling that you've arrived because you were in a playoff game last year is a killer, you know, especially when you haven't arrived. It's a recipe for a step-back year. I just think this guy gets it overall.

Is he a great coach? Probably not. Does he, in combination with his staff, equal a top-tier staff? Probably not, but it's much better than it's been. And it's probably a top half of the league. worst case, top half of the league staff. I think beyond the X's and O's with him, he understands the people part of this, which by the way, Joe Gibbs always understood. He's an NFL lifer. He's got NFL lifer experience. He's always been in pretty good situations and situations that built in his mind

the importance of not only good players, but good people and coachable people. And he has stayed with that discipline. I don't know. There's certainly, you know, something to Ron Rivera for me. And I know it's not totally there for all of you. That's fine. I think there's an identity with him. You know, there's certainly an air of discipline with him. There's a toughness. There's a no excuses, a my way or highway element to him. Not in the same way that Marty Schottenheimer was. because I think Ron has a much better bedside manner than Marty. But I like what's happening here as of now. You know, it's subject to change, as always with this organization.

And I still think that this year they could be a better team and not get the same results. But I would be surprised if at the end of this season that if I didn't still feel like this is the right direction with a good man leading it. Scott Turner said something the other day prior to the final preseason game. And it was a little bit of what I talked about earlier in terms of, you know, this preseason game on Saturday night didn't really determine six spots. You know, it just didn't. He was asked actually specifically about wide receiver. Listen to his answer.

Hey, Scott, you guys have a lot of depth at wide receiver. What are you looking to see out of in the third preseason game out of some of the guys might be on the border line of the roster and not making you. What are you looking at four of them? Yeah, you know, I think the easy thing to say is like guys making plays, but there's a lot more than goes into it than that. Just overall kind of doing things the way that they're supposed to be done. I mean, we're a big believer in process over results.

You know, you might get results doing something the wrong way, but that's not a long-term, you know, situation, long-term situation for success. So just looking at guys, you know, running the routes away we do it. you know, a guy might be getting separation, but for whatever reason, protection, wherever we're not getting him the ball, you know, so he doesn't get any catches. So just the overall body work, how they approach the game, you know, kind of, you know, we're evaluating more than just the games, you know, the games, we've had three of them.

And I know we're playing a lot of guys, so there's limited reps. You know, we see these guys day in and day on practice and how they conduct themselves. And then the big thing that happens in the games is, you know, see how guys handle it, you know, because the intensity does crank up a little bit. It's not quite the regular season, but all of a sudden the lights are on and you're in the game setting. There's not any coaches on the field. And some guys, you know, it's a little bit too much for them. So how do they handle, you know, those situations?

That's kind of the next test, you know, and a guy when they're coming up. I think that answer was very instructive to all of us. We can't watch these preseason games and sometimes even regular season games and think that we really have a good feel for everything. He was answering a question that was wide receiver specific, but really his answer applies to everybody. The value of playing the games in preseason is just to see how they react, make sure they don't get stage fright. They already know and can evaluate these players in training camp practices, and in some cases even going back to OTAs in mini camp. There's not a lot in these games that change opinion, unless, again, again, somebody gets major stage fright.

And they're like, oh, boy, that's disappointing. He looked great in practice. He looked great in the layup lines, but it didn't really pan out in the game. All right, when we come back, the final 30 minutes of my conversation with Santana Moss the other day. If you enjoyed the first part,

I think you're going to enjoy this second part even more. Right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, we'll finish up the show. today with that final 30 minutes of my conversation the other day with Santana Moss. He was great. If you missed the first part, just go back to Friday's show titled Santana Moss on everything. This was Santana Moss, the final 30 minutes. He got into some interesting storytelling and he had some thoughts on what the team this year would do this season. Here it is. I've always thought of you in the same way that I used to think about Daryl Green

as a long time, you know, lifelong fan of this team. From this perspective, when you went back on a punt return, it was a big deal. It was like they need them, they need somebody to make a play, and you did. You were an excellent punt returner. Daryl Green didn't do it as much as you did it in your career, but every time Joe would stick Daryl back on a punt return,

it was a big moment. And you felt like every time he was, back there, there was a chance that it would break and that he would take it to distance. And I always felt that way about you on returns. If you would been a full-time punt returner your entire career, how good would you have been? Would you have been one of the best? You know, me, I'm going to always be, you know, I'm not going to to toot my own horn. But I believe I'd have been one of the best.

I think my skill set was that of a punt returner. Like, I can make a guy miss in a phone. And then I got zero to 60 better than I don't know. I don't know too many guys have a zero to 60 gear like myself. You know, that's one of my things. That's why when I ran track, I was good in the 60 yard dash. I was good in the, you know, I ran first leg, four by one team because I get out the blocks faster than anybody. I's the only, you know what folks ask me time and time again.

What is this one thing you regret about your career? The only thing I ever regret, I never shared with no one I'm sharing with you first. I didn't continue to do punt return throughout my arm. whole career. And I'm going to tell you why. In New York, you got to think about it. I was an all-pro, first-team all-pro, my first-year plan is a pump return. Yeah. No one talks about that. You had several touchdowns. You know, no one talks about it. I led the league my first full year, my first, my rookie season, I was hurt the entire year. I played the last four games. But my first full year, my second year in the league, I led the league in touchdowns, and I was the first team all

pro. I was a pro-ball alternate. I was, I was snub. But it was cool. I'm not tripping. I was so young. I didn't even care. Right. But in New York, the special team guys knew Santana's back here. We're going to fucking do everything we can we can do to make sure he get to where he got to go. And that's all I needed. When I got to Washington, I didn't think those guys cared enough about the person who they had back there. And I told myself, I refused to play or put myself, put my career on the line because I thought, too,

So as a punt returner, that's taking a lot of, you know, snaps out of me, you know, down the line. Like, I wanted a long career. And I felt the more punt returns that I endure, that's going to be less years that I have to be a receiver or elite receiver. I was trying to be the elite receivers. And I'm like, man, all the elite receivers don't do punt return. And even though I wanted to do it so bad, I was like, you know what? this is what this offense, this is what this team needs me more at as a receiver. Well, was it your choice?

Would they have let you be the primary punt returner if you had said, I want to do it? No question. They was mad that I wasn't. You know, they was. Who was mad? All of your coaches? Oh, more so Mike Westoff. Mike Westoff was pissed off to me in New York.

But my decision in New York was way different from my decision in Washington. Because they brought in Randallel, obviously, to be that guy in 2006. Yes, exactly. But I think Danny thought that, hey, even though we're bringing in Rendell, Tannenie, you have something different than Randy. Oh, no, see, Randuel was a guy that was going jook you. Right. Juk, juk, juk, juk, then I get open, then he's going to tire you guys out. Now he's off to the race. I'm one step down here, and I'm gone. Your mama, if she blink, your daddy, if he blinks, they're going to miss me. I'll be in the end zone. That was my, that was what I did as a punt returner. And Danny loved that. And everyone,

you have to love that if you're a special teams coach that you got a guy that can really return a punt in a blink of an eye. And I knew I had that. But I didn't think I had the guys in front of me to save my body enough for me to be as lethal as an offensive threat also. You know? Yeah. I felt like the hits I was taking already early in those two years of playing some of those reps as a punt return. I was like, oh, man, I didn't get hit this hard in four years in New York. I felt in New York.

I was doing things and I was barely getting hit. And now I'm taking crazy hits and guys all out of their lanes. And I don't got guys blocking. So that was the reason what made me not want to do it as much in Washington. Now, I did want to do it from time and time again. I just wish that I would have had the right kind of guys with the mindset. Like, look, man, that's protect Tanner because he can put up six in the blink of him and eye. Do you remember, though, do you remember towards the end of Randallel here?

my memory is it almost looked like he didn't want to do it anymore. Yeah. Do you agree with that or not? I can't agree with it because I'm not even sure. At the time when he left, I don't even think I was thinking about it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can't recall. I remember that year, his last year with us, because I ran a punt return back for us that year.

Yeah, against Detroit. Yeah, against Detroit. And I remember that's when me and Danny just talked that week, like, 10, I want to put you there once again. And I'm like, cool, you know, because like I thought point return always got me to be that much lethal, you know, when I didn't get the ball as a receiver. You know, like, that's one of the reason why I loved it so much when I was in college, because if I'm not getting the ball, I'm going to make something happen, you know, as a punt return. And that's why I regretted a little bit as, you know, throughout my career, because it was times in Washington where I wouldn't

get the ball enough, you know? And I'm like, but damn, only about to stay back here in court punts but I can't trust the guys for me to catch these plants you know what I'm saying so but no I think random you know we all get to that point where regardless of how you see it right our body doesn't allow us to be that guy Brandon Banks was Brandon Banks was pretty damn

good at it and he was phenomenal like yeah and it's true story and I'm sure he can vouch for this and he'll probably tell you this if you ever ask him Brandon Banks outrun anybody and one thing I told him about the NFL is that all these guys will find the angle to run your behind down. So you have to put something else in your game.

Once you break free, you have to cut cross-field because it's going to be a guy too that's going to set in it. They know your speed. So they're going to make sure that they have a nice angle on you. So Brandon Brace would break one and never score. You know, he scored his first touchdown when I told him to cut cross-field. He did it and he got a touchdown out of it. True story.

Yeah, he had, I'm looking at his numbers right now. he only had one career return. It was his first year in 2010. It was on a kickoff return, but he had a lot of long returns. He tried to outrun everybody, and I told him, I said, Brandon, it's butt soft and you're going to outrun the whole kickoff team or punt team. You have to eventually know how to set them up and say, when they think they got you, put that foot in the ground and get back on the other side.

So that was his problem. I told me he would have about six of them throughout his career, his short career. if he just did that from the start. Interestingly, his one return for touchdown was also at Detroit, like your last punt return for touchdown was. All right, let's get back to this team for a minute. How good do you think this team is this year? Where do you think it'll finish in the NFC East?

That's a good question. I know people want to hear the, they're going to dominate, they're going to this. I don't necessarily look at it like that. I think they're going to be a good team. can they win the division? Sure. It's there for the taking.

What's going to allow me to know, I think you're asking me this question now. I couldn't give you the answer you want. I think the best way to say it is that if they can stop the run on defense, it's going to be trouble. I would say that. Because they're going to score touchdowns.

You know, that's what folks are talking about right now. I haven't seen enough in the preseason. Look, I've been in preseasones where we score. a heap of touchdowns. And in the regular season, we barely fucking score 14 points a game. You know what I'm saying?

So trust me, that's nothing. You know, eventually they'll get theirself going. You got to think preseasoners, a lot of guys that's not playing, it's a lot of offense that they're not putting in. Everyone's going to start clicking when it's time to click.

So they're going to score on the offensive side. But if the defense can stop to run better than they stopped last year, it's going to be scary for any opponent they face. Because to me, I think that was the Achilles Hill last year. And that's the only. only thing that allowed that defense not to be dominant and a little bit too in the secondary. And I think they got both of those areas a lot better this year. So I'm not even

going to speak on the offense. If they can stop the defense, I mean, stop the run better, you can see them as the top two teams, the top favorite team to win the division and be, you know, representing us in the playoffs. I totally agree with you. I think that that was the Achilles heel teams that wanted to run against them last year, did Leonard Fournette, ran right through him in that playoff game. And that's why they went to. out and drafted Jamon Davis and hopefully have strengthened up that back seven because they've got

to be better. People like to call them Santana an elite defense at this point. For me and this is old school, maybe, but if you're not a great run-stopping defense, you're not, you can't be an elite defense. They're nowhere near elite. And then

one of the things I would say too is that, you know, when Chase, and I see him coming to this player already, when he realized how dominant he, I think he knows. But when he really, you're sitting in this game more so than just him sacking guys. When he realized that the attention that I'm getting, I can get every guy around me off. And he started taking advantage of those opportunities instead of him just saying, hey, I want to go make this sack,

that he say, okay, let me do what I do and now set the edge or, you know, allow, you know, sweat to come in on the backside or allow, you know, I knighted them to, you know, or have one-on-one in the inside. that's going to take this defense far too because he's that kind of player that he's going to get a lot of attention. We saw last year, one game, it was three players on this guy. You know what I mean? Three linemen trying to block this kid. And I think he was just flat out trying to sack the quarterback a lot. I think every player evolves second and third year to see that if I'm not doing the things that make me, quote, unquote, the elite at that position,

the way those elite guys also become elite is by playing. playing the game within the game. You understand what I'm saying? Like, you don't necessarily have to go. And Lash just showed that, that he didn't have to have a whole heap of sacks to be, you know, considered one of those guys, a pro bowl. Oh, he impacted every single game,

and he wasn't completely healthy at the beginning of the year. I think now, I know he has to see, have watched film and see how dominant he is. He don't have to watch field to see that, you know, basically. But I know he see how teams try to attack him. And if he can really say, okay, I can play a game within this game with these guys and allow them to think I'm doing something different, but just to get my other guy to get to the quarterback faster.

You understand? Yeah. I watch him a lot, man, and I just see, because I saw Montere Sweat kind of evolved last year. Yeah. I told a guy to, I say, hey, you know, sweat going to have more sex. So he's going to have more sex. And primarily because of you have a chase on the other side that people are going to pay attention to.

but I also thought that having another year on your belt, you're always, you're that much smarter and that more confident in what you can do. And I think having the season that Chase had last year, his confidence got to be through the roof. But I hope his game has evolved and knowing now that I don't necessarily have to be that dominant of a guy to go got to sacks because they're going to come to guys like him. You know, he's a, he's a magnet for quarterbacks. He's going to get his sacks. if he don't pressure and try to force,

I always had a sand, and I don't want to get too long with it. I always had a sand as a receiver. You asked me this question earlier about, you know, how many times did I tell the quarterback that I was open? I wanted the game to come to me. I never wanted to pressure the quarterback, the offense, no one into saying, let's give ten of the ball. Because if you allow it to come to you, you're ready for it.

And that makes you that much more in that zone when it does come your way. So that's what I'm saying about Chase. If he allows the game to come to him, he's going to have one of those. I see him already have one of those games this year, three sacks. And we're going to be talking about, oh, my God, this guy has three sacks in one game. Yeah, with a force fumble and, you know, two deflections of pass. Yeah, and by the way, I agree with you.

I think sweat could ultimately end up having more sacks, I think, than even Chase Young. I've got one more for you, and then I'll let you go. You've been so generous with your time. Which of the two games is your favorite here in D.C. is the most memorable. And maybe you're going to add another one to this list. Is it the Monday Night Miracle, the two touchdowns from Brunel in the final few minutes in Dallas to win on Monday night in 2005? Or is it that Jacksonville game the next year where I think you had three touchdowns, including the 70-yard catch-and-run in overtime from Brunel to beat the Jags? Which of those two, and maybe you've got another one, is the most memorable game you played in D.C.?

I have two. That's a great question. I like that because I always ask folks what they saw in the Monday Night Miracle game. That was that game, that was a disaster into those. In total of those plays. Right. The two games that I had my best performances in, the two games. And I probably can say just about five games, but two of them that stand out to me is Jacksonville at home and Giants in 05 at home on Christmas.

Oh, yeah, when you had to win it. Yeah, on Christmas Eve. Yep. I had three touchdowns. I'm a Christmas guy. I love the holiday season. That year was already, like I told you before, 2005, was magical to me. Finally getting the chance to be, you know, the guy and getting the, you know,

getting the love from my quarterback like Mark gave me. That game on Thanksgiving, I mean, on Christmas Eve. Yeah, you had to win. You guys were part of that five-game winning streak at the end of the year. You had to beat the Giants. Then go to Philadelphia, which was the Sean Taylor. game that we remember on New Year's Day. But that game on Christmas Eve, remember it wasn't just Mark.

Patrick Ramsey came in because Brunel got injured. You went to, exactly. But the reason why it stands out to me is because remember I told you all that year, they would give me plays to run. Right. And my second touchdown was a route that they saw someone else do. And they asked him, Tannen, can you do this? Yes, coach, I can do it.

And I did it. And I remember outrunning the ball. The ball was thrown a little behind me. just like gracefully turned my hips and caught the ball and then went the other direction and the defender looking at me like man he didn't just do that you know and so it is that game stands out a lot man because of the time of the year and I remember people had the signs of Santana claus it was just a magical game and a magical season it was it was such you know here's why it was also magical for a lot of us Santana is that it was Joe Gibbs it was his second year we were in a playoff run

You know, Gibbs is one of the all-time great December-January coaches in terms of his record. That was his hallmark. Like they always, his teams always played their best football at the end of the year. And so here he is in year two, and we're surging towards the playoffs. We destroyed the Cowboys the week before, you know, at home. And maybe one of the loudest environments FedEx Field has ever had. I'll never forget being there that day. It was a 4 o'clock, 4-15 start or whatever.

And then the giant game on Christmas Eve, you know, you couldn't lose. You had to keep winning or you were out. And the Giants were in it too that year. You know, they were a decent team. They were going to the playoffs as well. And you guys rolled up 35 points and you had three touchdowns on that day. And then the New Year's Day game was, of course, memorable because that was the game where Sean Taylor had the fumble return at the end to clinch the game. That was a good one, too.

I mean, that season, man, it was like a blur. But thinking back, man, like I say, see, that's one of the things about me as a player. I never dwell. Like, I hate being that guy. Like fans are like me. I hate being that guy. I literally, you know, my folks will tell you, I would come home and I tape every game. So because I want to come home and I go, I fast for it right to my plays.

Because I won't even the plays I messed up on. I have to see myself. And then I look at it and I already have my head riding home. what I did right or wrong. So I want to see it on tape to see how it looked. Once I see it, when we go to work the next day and the coaches show us from the Blimp version, you know, the aisle copy.

There's where there's no noise and all that stuff. That's the only times I see those games. And now I'm on to the next week. And whatever happens is behind me. I don't dwell on it that way. I don't talk about it. My folks, my family know how to call me about it because I felt so pressured

in being the guy that I wanted to be that I couldn't sit. and dwell on good or bad moments. And I think it helped me have a great career because I feel that, you know, I'm able to talk about it. That's why I love doing these shows because I get a chance to talk about myself a little bit.

You know what I'm saying? Well, I think great athletes and great competitors and people that play sports at the highest levels, those that succeed are not rearview mirror people. It's looking forward. I mean, you guys don't dwell on these things. A lot of players aren't even football fans the way we are.

So that's not surprising that you were that way as a player. I've got a quick trivia question for you because I'm thinking about that 2005 season and I'm looking at right now those final five games. You had to win all five to make the postseason. The first win in that five game winning streak was at St. Louis against the Rams. Do you know who the starting quarterback of the Rams was that day? Patrick, Fitzpatrick. It was.

It was his first start. I remember that game. I remember that game vividly because that was a game. I was ticked off. And I got my famous quote that I tell folks about Sean Taylor, me and him sat next to each other in the team meeting room and on the planes going to our trips. And that game, I wanted to get off so bad.

And I was open so many times. And I probably had one or two balls. I'm not even sure. But I was ticked off on the floor. light back and Sean kept tapping me on my knee. He's like, bro, what's wrong? And I'm like, you know, I was one of those guys. I was always been a guy.

I don't cry about it. I might pout and be pissed. But, you know, after I do that, then I'm gonna back to normal. And Sean was like, see, that's your problem. You need to get off your chest. And so I'm sitting there like, bro, watch out. Don't touch me no more. That's just how.

And you say, no, bro, get off your chest. You're gonna talk to me tonight. And that's how, and you gotta, you gotta understand. This is my first real time, right? Like, this year is my first time really being around Sean. Like, Sean played with my younger brother at UM. I didn't play with Sean.

So I'm not really knowing that Sean Taylor that everybody else knows. I just know he's from my school and he's a phenomenal talent. So that whole year I'm getting to know him. And we're bonding like there's no other. Like Sean is a good guy. He's always like to talk about different things that you won't even imagine a guy of his nature talking about. So he hit me like the third time.

Like, bro, get off your chest. And the way he got me to speak up about it is that he told me a story about itself. And he said, man, you know what? I know why you mad. He said, guess what I'm going to tell you what happened to me in the game since you don't want to tell me, you know, what's going on. You know, coach got mad at me, man, because I was sticking the tight end.

And, you know, he wanted me to be head up on the guy, but I jumped on one side. And the coach was like, why did you do that? You know, I want you to be this way on this guy. I want you to, you know, this particular defense. So I need you to play the tight end this way. And Sean said, you know what I told the coach? Man, I don't give a fuck because I'm going to bust his dick. Which was it was it one of the Washington coaches or was it a Miami coach?

No, this is this is on Washington. Oh, okay. Oh, for that game, for that Rams game. He got chewed out about something he did. Oh, okay, got it. And whatever happened in the game, they kind of let it go because Sean did just what he said he was going to do. He told the guy apart. Got caught the past, but I think the guy fumbled or something happened because Sean, you know, decapitated him.

Right. It's like, so, you know, so basically what I'm trying to say is, man, do what you do, man. Like, screw what they're talking about, man. Just play the game. How you know how to play the game and just be able to live with the consequences. And so I say that's easy for you to say because you don't have nobody throwing you the ball. And then I opened up and I told them, you know, what happened to me basically, I was like, look, man, I've been open. And I'm not the guy to, you know, scream about being open.

I'm a receiver. They watch film every day of me. They know I can get open. So why I have to come in a game and tell you when I'm open when you see this already? You know what I'm saying? So that was my whole thing that I told him. But that conversation struck a nerve with me, me and him, and we had a bunch of those talks, man,

all the way up until his last days with us, man, that we were always just gist up off our chest. And I have to give Sean a lot of credit because I wasn't a guy to be an outgoing speaker about things that I had going on. I was always holding in. And he got me to do that. Was that one of those Hennessy shot games? You know what?

That's the crazy thing about it, man. I'm glad you asked. Like I say, I love... Well, Clinton's told those stories before with me. Yeah, but it's not even that. Like, okay, so what folks felt to realize is that it only became a story because so many of us did it. You know what I mean? Well, Clinton always told me that it was the you guys.

It was you, Sean and him that would do a shot of Hennessy before the game. Yeah, that particular time, no, that wasn't a game. Okay. But secretly, I had been doing it for a long time, you know? Like, I've done that thing for so long to where it wasn't even a thing. It became more of a thing when me Porter's and Sean did it together. Because I was like, oh, shit, we all on the same boat. You know what I mean?

We all can do this. Right. Still be productive. So that's when, you know, it kind of stopped being rumbles in the locker room. And guys were like, hey, man, because I'm going to tell you the first game that we did that. Surprisingly, people don't know it. I'm not sure if Clinton never told anybody. The first game we did, I think it was a Sunday or Monday night game at home, 2006, 2005,

when Clinton and Sean got fined for the Sox. Remember they had the Sock game? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In 2005, we played the Eagles at home. And I rode with Portis to the game. And that's one of the things about FedEx Field. You kind of park in that. Right, that lot back by the ramp to go down, yeah.

and the parents and the, you know, the players' families are already out there, you know, tailgate. Right. And that's how it started. You know, Porter's had a couple of, Mama brought a couple of stuff to the car. Like, y'all straight for later, you know, after the game, put these in your bag so y'all can help. And me and Portland is, I'm like, man, we can have that right now. And we took two to the, I took a little, one of those little, you know, I call them wine old bottles.

Because I remember, you know, when I was growing up, all the little. cast the hang outside of the liquor store we call them winos they have the little personal bottles of liquor yeah in a brown bag yeah not even the brown bag they're real small like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah they like the one that you fit find in a hotel yeah or an airplane pingo pingo those kinds so we down two of those things man and we brought some in the locker room clint had to make sure Sean had his and shaw let's like y'all for real and we're like come on man and on top of doing that Clinton had designed all our socks. We're going to have all these colors.

Oh, geez. I remember that. That's the only thing I didn't go with them. I'm like, look here, bro, one thing about me, I'm, I have, I'm superstitious. I got to wear the same thing every week. I can do all the other stuff we just did, but I'm not changing my socks. And I remember that game, Bivalent, man, we went out there, and the players knew that we did it. And surprisingly, not not surprisingly, but we dominated me.

Clinton and Sean had a game of all games. and they came back like, bro, you cast was on. Y'all was on here before the game, and y'all was able to, and, you know, Clinton took it more than what it was going. Like, he took it farther by telling them, you know, hey, man, y'all, shit. It ain't nothing to us. Me, I just stayed in my lane, like, man, I'm bad. Yeah, the sock thing, I remember it irritated a lot of us

because it's like it was almost a bit, I think we felt like it was disrespectful to Joe, long time. fans. I think that's really the way we felt about it at the time. By the way, there's no way Gibbs knew about the Hennessy shots, right? No way. No way. I mean, we didn't even have to, look, one of the things Coach Gibbs wanted us to do, and that's one of the things I was, I appreciate him, appreciate about him. Coach Gibbs told us stories about guys that he tried to change when he first, his first stint, you know, as a coach. And he said, what he had had to come in grips with is that you have guys that do what they do.

As long as that guy is what you need him to be between those white lines, that's all you can access. Yeah. Well, he had, he had Riggins. He had Dexter Manly, had Gary Clark. He shared stories with us about the guy.

He said, and he didn't even call their names. He respected these guys privacy enough to say. He didn't say no names, but he told the story. And already, if you're a fan of you heard anything about Dexter Manley and all those guys, you'd be like,

oh, I know who did that. You know what I mean? And he said, yeah, a guy, man, that they had to find him one morning. But when he got on the field, he dominated the game. So, you know, he said back that moment then told him as a coach, like, hey, as long as this guy line up for you and do his job, you can't worry about his life outside of, you know, what he does because everybody can't walk the same, you know, straight and narrow.

You know this story, you know, Jimmy Johnson, the story about, you know, he cut a guy because he fell asleep in a meeting in training camp and they said, well, what would have happened if Troy Aitman had fallen asleep? And he said, well, I would have woken him up. And Gibbs, you know, there's a famous story about a game before a Monday night game in San Diego and I guess they had gotten in there on Sunday before the game

and they came in for a team meeting and Rigo was wrecked. I mean, totally wrecked. And in the back of the meeting room, Riggins starts taking a piss on the floor. And Gibbs looks down. and sees what's going on and then just keeps talking and never stops and never acts like he actually sees what's going on because it was Riggins, you know? And so it was, that's essentially what Gibbs, you know, figured out eventually.

Like you've got to let your guys be the people they are as long, as long as they post on game day and they're not, you know, disruptive to the team structure. But anyway, that was fun. That was a lot of fun. I always have enjoyed our conversations, but before calling you today, I'm like, you know what? We're going to talk as much about today's team, this year's team, as we are, about Santana's career, because I don't think we've done that before.

But I really appreciate the time, as always. I appreciate it, man. Like I said, I get a chance to go down memory lane, man. I miss those days. I only miss the memories. I have fun, and it was all. I got it out my sister. and so I'm good.

But I definitely love going out in Memory Lane and being able to share some of those. Santana, she's such a good guy, and he's so much fun to work with when I've had those chances. He's going to be a part of the pregame show on 980. And so tune in for that, you know, week one before the Chargers game.

Thanks. We'll do this again soon. Take care, buddy. I hope you enjoyed that. I really did with Santana. All right, that's it for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.