The Kevin Sheehan Show - Czabe & Van Pelt

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Kevin with more thoughts on Dwayne Haskins' death along with some of the reaction to his passing from those that knew him best. Kevin also weighed in on the Adam Schefter Haskins' tweet and Gil Brandt's radio comments after learning about Haskins' death. Steve Czaban and Scott Van Pelt joined the show to talk Haskins and The Masters.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Steve Zaven will be a guest on the show today. So will Scott Van Pelt, two guests on this Monday, April 11th. Don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify.

It's a big help when you do that. Saturday was crazy. Tommy and I were recording the podcast. Right in the middle of recording the podcast, we got the news that Dwayne Askins had been killed in South Florida. And we edited the podcast to put that at the front of the podcast, our reaction to it, as we learned about it. It was awful.

And even though, you know, I'm a huge golf fan and the Masters was a big sports story, you know, I certainly found myself consumed with all of the information related to Dwayne's death and all of the reaction to it, which we'll talk about here a little bit in the open before we get to Zabe and to Scott. I wanted to read to you from Les Carpenter's story in the post yesterday, titled, Dwayne Haskins' legacy can't be measured with statistics. Dwayne Haskins' smile was one of the first things that came to mind on the day he died. There was something inviting about the way happiness spread across his face,

filling his cheeks and lighting his eyes. The smile was real, it was gentle, inviting at times, almost playful. And it showed the innocence of a young man trying hard to find himself, in the unforgiving zero-sum world of professional football. It's always sad when bright, talented people die in their early 20s, but Haskins' death in the middle of a Fort Lauderdale Florida Freeway, I try to say that fast three times, Fort Lauderdale, Florida Freeway, seems especially cruel because it was such an abrupt and brutal end to a life

that held so much promise and appeared to be heading in the right direction. Haskins' biography is packed with more chapters than that of nearly any way, else just week short of turning 25. It's a complicated and often confusing story told most vividly in numbers, both with his jaw-dropping touchdown totals at Ohio State and the disappointing statistical line from his short time with Washington. But his legacy is not a quarterback rating and his memory is bigger than a football career. He was warm, he was sweet, and there always seemed a hope that he was about to find his vast potential. It's a really good job by Les Carpenter. I would urge you to read the rest of it on Dwayne Haskins' death. But it was those three paragraphs

that kind of summed up a lot of it, but the last two lines in particular, he was warm, he was sweet, and there always seemed a hope that he was about to find his vast potential. And I think what we heard throughout the weekend from those closest to him, a lot of those people being his teammates, is what a kind person he was, how warm he was, how sweet he was, and how much they hoped that he was about to find or, you know, realize that potential that he had. You know, I think I mentioned this on the podcast on Saturday that, you know, there's been a lot of conversation about Dwayne Haskins, obviously, and in this format, some of it's been very critical of him. But I always mentioned, and Cooley actually mentioned it, you know, on the podcast at times,

that when he was there, when Cooley was kind of part of the organization in 2019, Dwayne's rookie year, and he got to know Dwayne a little bit. He kept saying, even in those turbulent times, he's such a nice kid. And, you know, and he's bright. he just needs to learn how to become a professional. And Cooley questioned whether or not there was anybody in the organization that could teach him how to be a professional. He even took, you know, took Dwayne off the hook in saying,

it's not his fault that he ended up in this organization and that there's nobody here to teach him how to be a pro, teach him how to study, teach him how to, you know, be a professional NFL quarterback. There was definitely a lack of maturity. And Cooley pointed to that, but would always say, but he's just a good kid. You know, he's a good kind, you know, sweet kid, and he's bright and he's got potential,

even though Cooley was very, very critical of the pick. I was too. I was not a big fan of Dwayne Haskins being drafted in the first round. Most of the football people and the organization weren't fans of it. This was the owner's pick. We know that. We know that. I went back and listened to a podcast that I did with Jay Gruden in February of 2021,

and there's a segment on the whole Dwayne Haskin situation. And it was funny because, you know, in listening to it, you know, he talked about the dysfunction of the owner, you know, essentially making the pick, much to the dismay of the football people. But he said, we liked Dwayne as a prospect. We just didn't think he was a number 15 overall pick. We felt like we could get him in the second or third round. And remember, there was some conversation that it's possible had Washington not taken him,

that he may have lasted. until the second round. But, you know, he said we liked him as a prospect, but we knew he had a long way to go at this level. And then he said, I liked Dwayne. Dwayne was smart, and he made the comment. He said, Dwayne was able to take in a lot of information for a guy that young. But it was unfair for him to be there and unfair for us because we were in a year in which we had to win. They had traded for Kays Keenham. Colt McCoy was coming back, and he can't develop, you know, two new guys. you know, at the same time. And knowing that there would also be pressure at some point to play them,

even though the owner said, don't rush it. Well, Jay said, I was in a position where I had to rush it. I had to win or I was gone. So it wasn't the best of situations. And we commented on that, you know, during the time. And look, you know, I'm the first to understand that at times we were critical of Dwayne. But at times also, you know, we, spoke to, you know, the dysfunctional situation that he was brought into. But that's the format we're in.

I mean, that's not going to change, you know. You can't go back, you know, upon the death of a 24-year-old person and say, God, I really wish I hadn't, you know, been as critical as I was for the game that he played against the Ravens that year and then talked about his stats afterwards. I mean, that's what we do in this format. That's not going to change. You know, you can do a lot of things. simultaneously. You can have, you know, incredible sympathy for those that were truly impacted. You know, this is a son, this is a brother, this is a husband. It's so, so sad. But I thought that Les Carpenter in that, in the first few paragraphs, really touched on what you heard from a lot of different people. This was from T.J. Watt, one of his teammates in Pittsburgh. Just a year that T.J. Watt was with

Dwayne Haskins. The world lost a great person today. When Dwayne first walked into the locker room, I could tell he was an upbeat guy. He was always making people smile, never taking life for granted. His impact on me will last forever. And then there was this. And this was the one that I read on Saturday that really was moving and so, so touching. And it came from Terry McLaren, his teammate in Washington, and his teammate and friend at Ohio State. And Terry tweeted out, quote, devastated is the only word I can come up with right now. Dwayne always had a smile on his face and had a personality that was one of one. We talked the night we both were drafted about how hopeful we were for our futures and how excited we were to be able to play and compete

together again. I thank God for the memories we shared and the conversations we had. And the I'll miss those so much. He was a man trying to become the best version of himself, just like we all are. He was excited to continue to compete for his dream, and I know as well as those closest to him that his best years on and off the field were ahead of him. He was more than a phenomenal football player

who could spin it like I've never seen to this day. He was a guy who wanted to see the ones around him win and have success. He was a man of God and spoke of his faith quite often. A beloved son, brother, husband, friend, and teammate. I'm heartbroken. And pray he knew how much he was loved. How much I loved him. I would have given anything to see him win.

His legacy on this earth will forever be felt because of the way he lived life. And the way he impacted everyone he came in contact with. Until we meet again, brother, save a spot for me in that big end zone in the sky, where we will celebrate again one day. closed quote. That was from Terry McLaurin. Really beautiful. And so, such a touching and moving tribute to someone that he really was friends with and he really knew this person. And that's what you got a sense of all weekend long is how well liked he was. It's more important, you know, than being a great NFL football player. He made it to the NFL.

he was a pretty damn good college quarterback. And that's, you know, in death, sometimes you get the exaggeration, you get the emphasis on the positive, but it was too overwhelmingly consistent the messaging from those that were with him and knew him well. And that was the same thing Cooley had told me, you know, and he told me that off the air. He's really a nice, nice kid.

You know, there was nothing, you know, remember, there was some concern, right? know, the $40 to $50 a head draft night party, the number seven, which, you know, I never blamed him for. That was a Dan Snyder thing, you know, giving number seven to Dwayne Haskins. I disagreed with it then. I disagree with it now, but I blame that solely on, you know, the owner. The owner had to be the grown-up in that situation. But, you know, he was really well-liked, really well-liked. When these stories happen, you know, you take a moment to just let it kind of marinate a little bit, right?

And Gil Brandt didn't do that. I feel I'll share my feelings with you about what Gilbrant said. And Adam Schaefter tweeted out initially something that many thought was really grossly insensitive. I'll give you my thoughts on that here in a moment. But I did want to just mention, you know, there are a couple of games that he played that I just remember specifically what I said after the games. When he beat Detroit for his first win when he was taking selfies, Tommy crushed him for it. I mean, not surprising, of course. I remember defending him saying, you know what, he's a kid.

There was only a few seconds left. He thought the game was over. Let's give him a break. I don't want to ever see him do it again. But let's give him a break on this one. on a day in which I wrote in my game notes, you know, the things that I liked and didn't like about that particular game, the 2019 start against Detroit's first win.

I wrote, Dwayne Haskins played championship football in the fourth quarter, to which many of you ripped me for it. What? Because he was like 13 of 29 for 144 yards. He was not great statistically that day. But down 1613, he drove him for a game-tying field goal, and with under a minute to go, he had a huge scramble for a first down and had a huge completion

to Terry McCorn for field goal range for the game-winning field goal. I was becoming, most of you know this, I had changed my mind on Dwayne, not that I thought he was going to be great. I had changed my mind that he wasn't worth drag. I didn't like him at all coming out of college as a prospect in the NFL. And then after seeing him play games,

What I wanted to see was more of Dwayne because he had a swag to him. He was fearless. He thought he belonged. That's a big part of it at that level. You could tell he believed in himself. He had the physical attributes for sure. And there were just moments like that game in the final two games that he played in in 2019. He played six quarters of football against the Eagles and the Giants at the end of 2019,

where he went 31 of 43 for 394 yards, touchdowns, no picks, and had played really, really well. Remember, he got taken out second half against the Giants after he asked Dan, he asked Dan, or Dan called down and said, you don't have to play the second half. Remember, that was a bit of a controversy. But after those final six quarters, I wanted to see him start every single game in 2020 with the new coaching staff. He started four, and he got benched, demoted to third string, and we know the rest of the story, got cut later on that year. Anyway, two more things before we get to Zabe and to Scott.

Adam Schaefter's tweeting out of the story, which infuriated a lot of people and had people calling for Adam Schaefter's job all weekend long, had many people more focused on Adam Schaefter's initial tweet than on Dwayne Haskin's death. And also, Gil Brant's reaction on Sirius XM's NFL radio show when he was presented with the news that Dwayne had died. I'll start with that one.

Gil Brandt, for those of you who don't know, is a 90-year-old Hall of Fame, former NFL general manager for the Cowboys for many years, one of the real innovative general managers of his time. And I've mentioned in recent years, I think he's a great follow on Twitter. I think he's got sharp NFL takes. and Tommy and I often reference the Gilbrant top 20 lists. The NFL.com has Gilbrant's top 20 greatest receivers, top 20 greatest quarterbacks.

He creates these lists. And Gilbrant's opinion of NFL players and teams, I think, is a sharp one. But this was not a great moment for this 90-year-old man who I think is still lucid and with it. You know, sometimes that can certainly be the excuse. I don't think that's the excuse for Gil Brandt on Saturday when he reacted to the news of Dwayne Haskins' death by saying, quote, he was a guy that was living to be dead, closed quote.

It was always something with Haskins, Brandt said, you know, invited to the draft party, but instead holding his own party and charging people $50 ahead to get in. And then there was this from Gil Brand, as he continued to go on about, his reaction to Dwayne Haskins' death on Saturday morning. He was told not to stay, he was told to stay in school and not to come out,

that he wasn't ready to play in the NFL. Maybe if he had stayed in school a year, he wouldn't do silly things like jogging on a highway, closed quote. If you've listened to this, there's also a tone to Gilbrand that is kind of edgy, like I told you guys that this was not a guy that should have been drafted and was ready to play in the NFL. Okay, great. You don't talk about that moments after you get the news that this man just died. Again, I know he's 90, and if he is on the decline, major decline, he shouldn't have been on radio to begin with.

But I don't think he is. But the bottom line is on the insensitivity meter, that's a nine and a half for 10 out of 10. You know, I'm not going to call for his job. I think XM Series can handle that. But as Tony would say, this is a gots to go situation. And I kind of agree with that. That was my reaction after listening to that. Now we move to Adam Schaefter.

Adam Schaefter, when Adam Schaefter was the first to break the news on Saturday morning. With this initial tweet, quote, Dwayne Haskins, a standout at Ohio State before struggling. to catch on with Washington and Pittsburgh in the NFL died this morning when he got hit by a car in South Florida per his agent, Cedric Saunders. Haskins would have turned 25 years old on May 3rd, closed quote. That was the tweet. It's the tweet I think I read when we were recording the podcast on Saturday. He replaced it with the following tweet. Dwayne Haskins, a standout at Ohio State before becoming Washington's first round pick and playing in Pittsburgh, died this morning when he got hit by a car in South Florida.

yada, yada, yada. Well, as it turns out, he wasn't hit by a car, he was hit by a dump truck. But that's not what incensed many of you out there. And this was very much a mixed response on the Adam Schepter situation. I think the Gilbrant situation, I think we can probably, we're probably all in agreement. So people, I need to explain this because not everybody, you know, feels the same way or reacts the same way. Some people are super sensitive and some people aren't. and this is a very subjective response to the Adam Schaefter initial tweet. Some people like me when I first read it, it didn't even occur to me that there was something insensitive in the tweet. After thinking about it a little bit and seeing it blow up on social media, my reaction was, yeah,

part of what he wrote could have been left out of there. But many people still don't know what it was that Adam Schaefter tweeted out initially, even if they've read it that incensed and horrified so many people. Well, it's the line where he says, Dwayne Haskins is standout at Ohio State before struggling to catch on with Washington and Pittsburgh in the NFL. That is a line that many people thought was over-the-top insensitive. For me, that's a three out of ten on the insensitive meter.

And for those people that have called for his job and called for him to be fired or suspended, I think that's utterly ridiculous. it's not because I'm a friend of Adam Schaefter I'm not a friend of Adam Schaefter Adam Schaefter and it came on our show for six and a half years we paid him to come on the show and I enjoyed him on the show and he was great

but Adam Schaefter is not a friend of mine Adam Schaefter actually won't even come on the show anymore because the station stopped paying him and he said well I just don't go on shows where people were paying me and then stopped paying me and I said to him this was like six months ago I said are you serious you won't come on my show

like if there's a Washington related story once a year or twice year. Nah, I love you, but I'm not going to do it. I'm sharing that with you. Just so you understand, I'm not sitting here defending Adam Schaefter because he's my friend, because that's not true. I enjoyed the six and a half years of Adam coming on the show. But for me, this is just me.

Three out of ten. Maybe not even a three out of ten, but I'll go with three out of ten. And I had to think about it because it didn't even occur to me to begin with. I would not have written it the way he wrote it, but he's in the business of being first. That's what he's getting paid now, $9 million a year, is to be right and to be first, to beat Rappaport and all the other people. There's nothing in that tweet that says to me that he was ill-intentioned and trying to, you know, criticize Dwayne Haskins professionally.

It was him writing quickly, and by the way, writing, factually that he struggled, has struggled to catch on with Washington and Pittsburgh in the NFL, but he was a standout at Ohio State. Now, would I have written it that way? Probably not, but I would have needed some time to think about how I would have written it. Did he replace it with something that was, you know, less insensitive if he did? You know, he realized that that probably didn't need to be in there, not in that moment, but fire him. I mean, people on Twitter just unbelievably triggered by this one verb, this one phrase, fire Adam Schaefter, suspend Adam Schaefter for this,

Adam Schendt demanding lecturing on him providing an apology? No, I'm not with you on that. Again, did it need to be in there? No, it didn't need to be in there. Would it have been better if his initial tweet had been his second tweet? Of course. But I know that people in that business were their racist, to be first. And you may have a problem with that in general, but that's the business.

Okay, that's, there is a business around what Adam Schefter does. He gets paid $9 million to do what he's doing, okay, to get stories, to be, to be an information provider for this country's most popular product, the NFL. I'm not calling those of you that were so triggered and so horrified by it. I'm not going to call you names and call you overly. or a snowflake or anything like that. You're entitled to feel the way you felt. I mean, it's a very subjective thing. I'm just telling you how I felt.

And I felt like the Twitter got a little bit out of control with a lot of people out there offended beyond, to me, what was reasonable, in many ways, kind of a self-serving way. But that's it. That's all I have on that. Gil-Brant, yeah. That's a nine and a half or a 10 out of 10, no doubt. Okay? That is. The nine and a half would be if we found out after the fact that he's really not able to process information or express it because he's 90 years old.

Adam Schaefter, no. Adam Schaefter is that it's apples and oranges. Adam Schaefter didn't say Dwayne Haskins is a standout at Ohio State before bombing in the NFL with Washington and Pittsburgh. He wrote before struggling to catch on. Three out of ten for me. It's just how I feel. You're entitled to feel any way you want to feel. Up next, Steve Zabin, and then Scott Van Pelt after that, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Steve Zavin joins us on the show right now. Scott Van Pell coming up next. I know Zabe wants to talk golf,

but the reason I reached out to you yesterday to see if you would come on the podcast is, I mean, for me, and I think a lot of people in this city, this would be one of those days that would have been for your show, whether it was with Andy or with Scotland or Galdi or Galdi or Gond. or Cooley or anybody, it would have been one of those days to find out your reaction to what was just, you know, stunning and very sad news, tragic news about Dwayne Haskins, you know, sudden passing on Saturday morning.

So that's why I reached out to you. So what would you have done on the show today? How would you have handled it? Well, I mean, it's a fascinating, multi-layered, and ultimately, extremely tragic story. my first thought was, my God, maybe this franchise is cursed. We've just had too much of this kind of stuff. But I need to know more about the circumstances of what happened, you know, because it's just not adding up right now.

So what are you curious about as far as that's concerned? Because I said the same thing in the open to this show. There's a lot that we don't know. And I am naturally curious to find out, even if they are. kind of morbid details. But I just think that there's a lot that was reported on that, that, you know, that there's probably a lot more to come. Nobody deserves to die at age 25 because they are being done or made a mistake. But I am curious to know, was his car broken down and he had flares out, was trying to repair the flat, and then a dump truck came over and

swerved into his lane? Or was he kicked out of someone's car while drinking late? at night and then just decided to run across the road, the highway, and got killed. Again, it doesn't change the fact that it's a horrible tragedy. Nobody deserves to die, but it gives you some background coloring in. Dwayne was very well liked, if not loved, by many guys. However, the fact, as a matter from football standpoint, as you and I know, is he did not take the league seriously enough. He did not apply himself to the levels of his talent. Now, again, in the tender moments after a guy has died, is that appropriate to say at a big public platform? No, of course not.

But we are living in a sensitivity age where if anyone has the opportunity to dunk on somebody for being insensitive, especially on social media, they will do. I don't know what happened, but it sucks. It sucks for him and his family and everything else. But it's, you know, the ballot of Dwayne Haskins as a redskin slash, well, he was a whooped briefly, right? for one year. I guess the way you say it. Yeah, he was a Washington football team player in 2020.

The ballot of Haskins has a lot of very, you know, morbidly fascinating tentacles, the fact that Dan decided to pull his power and say, we're taking them, even though, as you know, Gruden wanted no part of it. How much did that play into how he approached being here and approached his profession? you can't say like Gilbrand said. If you'd stayed in Ohio State for another year, maybe you wouldn't be doing silly things like jogging on the highway. That's completely callous, way too much of a reach.

You can't add those up and say, if this, then that. Life doesn't work that way. Yeah, the Gilbrant reaction, I use the exact same word. It was callous, it was insensitive. It was a 90-year-old man in a spot, which I don't even know if you can blame him being 90 because Gil Brant's been one of the better Twitter follows in the last few years if you're a long time football fan like me, but that was completely out of order. But, you know, when you said this is a multi-layered thing and it would be handled in a multi-layered way, I agree. And part of that, you know, one of those layers is the reaction that people had to Adam Schaefter's original tweet.

So go ahead. I mean, I've already talked a little bit about it in the open to the show, but what was your reaction to him, you know, using the words struggling, you know, in Washington and Pittsburgh in the NFL, then taking it down and putting a new tweet up? Two out of ten on the overall insensitivity scale, two. But we are living in an age where if you can dunk on somebody, and there's a lot of players, a lot of players that came out.

out on Schefter. And I said today on my show, you know the one reason that binds them all, not all them, but most them together is, they hate Shepter because he makes more money than they do. That's what's crazy. He's making more money than half the league. And what for what? To give out scoops from agents that they want out there, I mean, come on.

But on a scale of one to ten, it was about a two. Yeah, he said struggle. Oh, okay. what are you supposed to say? If he had said, Dwayne Haskins, a five-time-all pro was killed in a car accident,

well, that also is irrelevant to the tragedy. And his success is irrelevant, his struggling, is irrelevant, but it's reporting. It's context. I think you put it because

many people have forgotten about Dwayne Haskin. The casual football fan doesn't necessarily remember who he was, you know? We do. The other fans do, but a lot of fans don't. I swear to all of you listening that this is the first time that Zabin and I have talked about this. We didn't text about it. We have not talked about it.

But yes, on my insensitivity scale, I rated it a three out of ten, not a two out of ten. But I am fine with the two out of ten. But in the open to this show today, I just, and you know, I took some heat. this morning for talking about it in a similar way on radio. It's one of those things where Schaefter is paid to be first. It's not his responsibility to write the eulogy for Dwayne Haskins. To your point, there are people that are finding out about this that don't know a lot about Dwayne Haskins.

He took it down. He put a tweet that was probably more appropriate and was zero out of 10 on the insensitivity scale. But I just, it made me Zabe for a period of time yesterday in particular, want to just completely log out of Twitter for good. I mean, it's okay to say, you know, he didn't need to add that he was struggling in the NFL. That's not necessarily relevant to the story. To call outright for his firing or his suspension and to act as if you were triggered to the level of him saying, like, there are verbs he could have used, like he bombed in the NFL, you know,

playing for Washington and Pittsburgh, which also wouldn't have been totally inaccurate. Now, that would have been, you know, that would have been a seven or an eight out of ten on the insensitivity scale in the moment, but struggled? Yeah, I don't, I completely missed it the first time I read it. Well, this is the age we're living in. We're living in an age of faux sensitivity. faux sensitivity. Being sensitive and showing social capital that people are seeking

and a social credibility that they're seeking to acquire via the stupid Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and whatnot. So it doesn't surprise me. You could have said, Dwayne Haskins, a player who once said the league, quote, done messed up, walked into traffic on Highway I-595 and was hit by a dumb truck and died. he was 24. You can do that. That'd be way more incentive. You can say, Dwayne Haskins, the guy who was

cut by the Washington Redskins after hiring strippers for his birthday party in the middle of a pandemic, was struck and killed today on the side of the road in Florida. That would have been far more incestive. Or about the selfies on the sideline, while he had to be yelled at by the coaches, hey, go in and take a couple of knees. Actually, he didn't take the knees, right? Didn't his back-up. No, no, no, no, no. Case Keenham had to go in and take the knees. He was taking selfies. which, by the way, I'm going to tell you in the moment, I let him off the hook, and Tommy was so angry with me, but I said, you know, it's his first win. He's young. He's excited. He thought the game was over. He'll learn from it, hopefully.

Yeah. I mean, getting it in life, getting it, Kevin, as you know, and by it, I mean, whatever it is, your job, marriage, your situation, whatever, It's a hard thing. We all struggle with. Am I getting this right? Do I understand what's going on here? Getting it in the NFL is a hard thing. It eludes a lot of people.

He didn't get it as a player while he was here. I think he was making strides to get it with the tragic thing is no one's ever going to know if he was able to get it. Some of the Taylor didn't get. Hey, you can't live in a way that exposes your stuff. self to these kind of vectors of potential mischief. The fact he let parties happen in his house where he would have his girlfriend and his child's mother stay with him on that fateful night. He was already a big enough star and he had enough money that this wasn't just, you know,

like living as a 20-year-old. Doesn't mean he deserved to lose his life. It just was a consequence. That's all. Yeah. The way you described, you know, they could have said, you know, that he, you know, went to a party, held a party with strippers during a pandemic. All of those things would have been registering as a 10 on the insensitivity scale. And that's not something that I don't think would have ever, you know, entered, you know, Adam Schaefter's mind. And I think, you know, we're in this world where, like, there's no consideration given to what the intent is. Look, if, you know, If you didn't intend to kill somebody and you got charged for manslaughter, sorry, but there are consequences to lesser intentions, but not in a tweet trying to report someone's passing, tragic passing, and using a verb to describe his NFL career after he said

he was a standout at Ohio State. I guess, I don't know. everybody is certainly free to feel the way they want to feel, but you made a point that I wanted to just emphasize, and I talked a little bit about it in the open, maybe not enough, and that is I just saw too many people that were treating this as a very self-serving experience for them.

They don't know Dwayne. They don't know anything about him. If his family, if people who were super close were upset about Adam Schaefter's tweet, they have the right to be, okay? calling for his firing or his suspension is, you know, an emotional response from somebody who may have been emotionally, you know, affected by this. But the people that were lecturing and they don't know him and then it was just grotesquely self-serving, I thought, for much of the weekend. And I don't want to say that about some of the players that tweeted out stuff because those players do know him. but there was a lot of lecturing going on on a guy that just made a mistake and corrected it.

What do they want from him? Like, Gil Brand, I totally get. And Gilbrant apologized. And of course, it's like he apologized. And then the apology wasn't received as sincere from all the people demanding an apology. So you can't win. But he'll never be on radio again. And maybe he shouldn't be after, you know, what happened on Saturday.

I listened to the Gilbrand audio, and I thought there was a lot of humanity in the Gilbrant's, you know, dialogue of two minutes. And they're about alvo of a sound bite of this is a guy who was living to be dead, was too sharp, out of bounds. And so it negated what I thought was genuine empathy and humanity that was mixed in. And that's the world we live in. I also think Gilbrand extrapolated details of the event. Of course, the jogging, right, yeah. Right. He says jogging on the side of the highway.

All he heard was that he was down there in South Florida training with other teammates and other players and killed on the side of the road, so he thought, oh, he must have been training on the side of a highway. That's not yet been proof to be the case. We don't know if it'll ever be the case. But he just, in the heat of the moment, he put the two and two together. The other thing was his co-host made a mistake by saying, oh, wow, this news is just breaking, you know. Talk to me about this and also, you know, as a player since you scouted him. That's when Gilbrant should have said, I'm not going to talk about him as a player.

It doesn't matter today. Maybe tomorrow, maybe Monday, but not right now. He didn't have the wherewithal being his age to say that. And it was something he should have just avoided entirely. So, you know, keeping in the theme of multi-layers off of a storyline, this, which is so tragic. And the primary layer is that a 24-year-old young person is no longer with us. And trust me, and I think I can speak for Zabe, that is not being overshadowed here. I spent, you know, all morning long and perhaps you did as well. But I thought, I feel differently

about the Gilbran interview. I think that there was a tone and an edge to Gilbrant's words that were very attacking. And that, you know, that. He had a sloppy professional career and must have been living a sloppy life that led to a dark outcome. And this was a guy that clearly was not a fan of him coming out. You know, as a Hall of Fame general manager, he talked about, you know, the bowling alley, $40 a head, you know, charging for draft night. And this was, you know, all of the red flags on Dwayne bothered Brandt from the beginning. And this was, I think, very much a part of his. tone, which was the wrong tone to take upon hearing that someone had just been tragically killed.

But I wanted to go to this other layer because I think it's interesting and I haven't talked about this, but you're the perfect person to talk to about this. What did you think about the co-host with Gilbrand? What do you think his role was to either, A, protect Gilbrant, B, respond to Gilbrant, C, try to smooth things over. I don't know. What was his role there? because he did nothing but essentially throw it to a break when Gilbrant got done.

Well, I think once you enter into Tom Brennaman category of, and there's a drive by Castiano's, and you're trying to pass this up, it's too late at that point. I mean, like I said, if you're the host, you probably don't lead them down the road of, let's recap how we measured up scouting-wise to what people expected of them as a football player. He's dead. His family is devastated. Now is not the time, but they're on some NFL radio, and that's what they do. So they got caught up in the bubble of, well, this is what we do. Player X dies. How was his career? And forgetting the moment of, we've got to let

this thing sit for a little while. So yeah, the host did him no favor. The host is probably pretty old himself. He sounded pretty old, and he said he knew him. So that means he must have Well, it could mean that Andy just met him as a young intern, and he's not as old as we think he is. No, he's sound. He's not at all. Here's the kind of thing. I've done this before. I've done this before as a host.

I have said, as we're ripping, running along 100 miles an hour doing what we do in live radio, something comes out sideways or a little bit weird. I will hit the talk back, and I will scream to the producer, dump, dump, dump, dump, dump, and they'll dump it just if I don't feel good about it. Almost like, you know, if you ever on a commercial flight in which you're about to land and the pilot does a fly around, that's always the get your heart rate pumping, right? You've had one of those, right? Several, yes.

I've had the one where we landed and then immediately went back up because something was on the runway. That was terrifying. yeah exactly so i've done that before in radio where i'm like it's just not worth it um but you know we live like we wouldn't know the opinions of all these NFL players on adam shepter's tweet if social media didn't exist you would have to go find a player you'd have to go interview it and then you would have to publish his comments about it if not in a newspaper on a blog and somebody would have to go find the blog and read the blog and ain't nobody got time for that social media has crammed us all together in one

tiny phone booth that is our phones it were too connected it were too sensitive people are too quick to try to show how morally superior they are and it's it's not a good situation and that's not a defense of what that said that said can i just for a second asked you to ask Van Pelt one question about Scotty Sheppel. It's going to be too late because I've already, I've already, I had to record that much earlier this morning before I started the podcast. Yeah, but I bet he answered it anyway. Okay, what I don't know about Sheffler is this.

Is he the truth? Is he the truth? Or is he just another hot guy like Brooks Kevka? or like Deschambeau or like Spee. There you go. Yes, we talked about that. I asked him. And what's that thing.

Well, let me just, so what I asked him was, you know, I feel like we've been here recently before with Speath, when Speeth was going to chase down Tiger. It's all in the frame of, you know, Tiger in the distance of, oh, is this going to be the guy now that Speeth's won so much so quickly? you know, is D. Shambo going to be the guy? And I said to him, I go, you know, with Speed, there were a lot of people that pushed back and said he doesn't hit it far enough. You know, with DeCambeau, there were some questions about how he got to where he got to, obviously. And I said, you know, and Scott just said, look, everybody's going to do the same thing because it's the world we live in. He's won four times in 57, in less than two months. And he did say that he's an older 25, not just physically. looking older 25, but there's a seriousness to him. But he also talked about the fact that he doesn't have the perfect swing.

I mean, you know this. I mean, it's not like the most natural or most beautiful or most, you know, but that he, you know, and he's not the, but he is a good ball striker. But, you know, for now you've got to take him seriously. But I'd have to almost go back and listen. I think he kind of said, look, you're right. We keep saying this. Time will tell.

But he is a more serious 25-year-old than most out there. Yeah. Well, what do you think? What do you think? Because you're just as much of a fan and a golf expert as Scott is. I'll give you the entire book of Sheffler from my perspective, fan of literally six months. Ready?

Mm-hmm. He gets named to the Ryder Cup team. I had not really heard of him. I told my golf nerd buddies. I'm like, Schaepler, he hasn't won anything yet. Well, you knew him from Harding Park.

You knew him from Harding Park when Morrill Cow won. That's the first time I ever heard his name. Well, that's, yeah, he finished, was it second or four? Yeah, and he was in the final group with him. But go ahead. Okay, so, yeah. I said, he hasn't won anything yet. I said, come on, you're putting him on the Ryder Cup team, and a couple of my golf nerd buddies are like, no, this dude is legit. He's going to be huge. And I go, call me when he wins.

How many times my phone will stop ringing. So, watching him closely this time, and I didn't watch him closely at Phoenix when he won, didn't watch him closely at the match play, but watching him around Augusta, I was, like, struck by two things. One was his short game is a goddamn cheat code, Kevin. It's ridiculous. He's the kind of guy if you're playing in a match at your club, you're saying to yourself, you're muttering, God, this guy doesn't miss. Like, what is wrong with this guy? It's ridiculous. So short game is absurd. The foot movement is weird, and he does a lot of manipulating, flinging with his hands. Okay, whatever. Fuck. The The other thing is this, the guy's junior record, I didn't know, he had won 90 out of a big tournament.

Yeah, he's a badass competitor. Like, serious stone cold winner, killer. And I think he's got, he's very well grounded, very religious, you know, married already at a young age, big, solid family, sort of a touch of Texas dumb, which is a good thing to have as an athlete, especially. I'm thinking he might be more than just the latest flavor there. That's like summation. All right. Well, that's interesting because I literally, as I'm watching this, my middle son was with me this weekend,

and he's, you know, just he's watching every single shot featured groups of Tiger from Thursday through yesterday morning. Like yesterday morning he's like, I've got Tiger up on the featured groups. I'm like, he's not going to win. He's like, who knows? Maybe he can shoot 59. And by the way, Rory should have shot 62 or 61. But, you know, and I watched a lot of Tiger this weekend.

What I was going to say to you is that, you know, and people are going to hear it coming up next. Scott, I had to record it earlier. But, you know, I said I want to start with the number one story of the weekend. said, let's talk about Tiger and Scott immediately says to me, and you guys all hear this coming up in a few minutes, well, that wasn't the number one story. And I said, well, of course it was. No, it wasn't. Scotty Schaeffler winning it for the fourth time and whatever is the number one story. And I said, I said, no. I'm paraphrasing here. I forget how the beginning of our conversation went, but it was a little bit argumentative, but in the way we always argue, nobody's feelings

are ever hurt. But Tiger was the reason people were watching in incredible numbers. this weekend. So I would ask you, what did you make of Tiger this weekend and what do you think is next? I think it's impressive. I think it's also defies logic. Nobody wants to talk about the PED issue with any athletes, any athletes in any sport. There's no way a 46-year-old man. By the way, Tiger's the same age as Nicholas was when he won an 86. Yeah, I know. Does Tiger move in a way that Nicholas, at 46 and that yellow salt shirt moved. No. Jack was an old ass man.

Jack was your dad. Tiger is only your dad when he takes that hat off and you see his giant moonroof, which is unfortunate. He's got to figure that. Yeah, well, you would, we both can identify. There is, to me,

and this is a galleism, I'm going to throw at you. So what you're telling me is that a 46-year-old guy with five knee surgeries on his left knee, with a fused spine, with rods in his right leg, can still generate 170-mile-an-hour ball speed with his driver, which is in the elite category on tour for all players, not just guys above 30 or 40. And that skinless chicken and high rep, as Gawley would like to say, I'm a little dubious of that.

Now, I know Tiger's a freak, he's a maniac, and he trained to be a name. baby seal, even though that was a completely delusional dream he had. So I get. But that doesn't quite add up. Wait, Deschambeau dubious? DeCambo could definitely be on some stuff as well. But is that what you're saying? That's why you're skeptical. Well, here's the thing. There's other 46-year-olds out there on tour who are healthy. Don't have all that. Who can't generate that much clubhead speed. anymore. Yeah. Okay. Tiger is.

Tiger is the long 46-year-old on the planet. So, but that's a separate tangent. That's an offshoot. There's two other things about Tiger. One is I'm assuming his recovery from his leg injury can still

get better, which is great news for those that want to see him play and compete. So I don't think he's stopped his recovery. And then his game, if he can play a bit more, we'll get sharper and sharper, and he could definitely contend at Augusta for at least a couple more years, assume he can still play four to five events per season or per year.

So there's that, which is great. The net net, the top line thing about Tiger is this. He's the best human version of himself he's ever been. The smile he had as he marched off to a hero's ovation after finishing 46 or whatever, through the throngs of the gallery and the patrons was the most genuine, soulful. I'm really happy in life.

I am grateful in this moment to be here doing this and then to be with his family and his new girlfriend who is not a looker. She's not a supervisor. Right. She's not. A nice, sweet middle of the road restaurant manager who has Tiger's heart.

and vice versa and his kids who are growing up. And it was a wonderful thing. And he was a real person. He chatted with John Rom the entire round. People were saying, wow, I've never seen Tiger chat this much. He's the best person that he has been. It's about the fifth or sixth version. It's Tiger 6.0.

I'm happy for him in that regard. Yeah, Scott kind of alluded to the same thing. That what you saw as he walked off 18 was this satisfaction that you would have never seen after back-to-back rounds of seven. 78 previously. All right. There was one other thing about the Masters that I was not going to get into with Scott,

but I want to talk to you about. I think I texted you. I think I did text you about this. I was just, I was beside myself on the CBS coverage yesterday multiple times, but it started with, you know, here's Rory,

clearly making a move. I mean, having an incredible run. He shot 32. you on the front. It could have been better, but we didn't, we get to the back nine, and he's really the only one now that might post a super low number. And I, I think I texted you and another friend of mine. I think I texted Scott, too. I'm like, why have we only seen, we're missing like a third to half of Rory shots, even on tape? I thought CBS did a, I thought they were off. I thought Amanda, not asking Tiger, the question that we all wanted to know, which is, what are you doing

next are you going to play, especially when he gave her the opening by saying, you know, we've got some work to do. There was so much to the broadcast. What did you think? Sorry, go ahead. All right. First of all, I believe it's still Lance Barrow that directs their broadcast, the Masters. Okay. Lance Barrow, junior guy to Frank Tricanian, the legendary. Yes. Yes. So I think it's Lance Barrow. If it's not, let me know. I don't know who's going to check it right now. Maybe you can while I'm talking. So here's what Lance Barrow and CBS does, and this is a feature of American Gulf television coverage. They lock in on the theater of the leaders on Sunday stalking their prey, which is a green jacket, and stalking every putt and lining stuff up, and they hone in on that. And there's a lot of validity from a broadcast standpoint to do that.

However, it insults the viewer to imply, well, instead of taking you up to eight, to see what Rory does out of this bunker as he's got a super low round going. We're going to keep you focused down here on Cam Smith and his mullet because he's circling, you know, a 10-footer for Bertie, and this is the main narrative. That's what they do. They figure, you know what, he's in the bunker, he's not going to do anything. Let's not go up there. European broadcasts, European Tour broadcasts are way more shot, shot, shot, shot. they trust that the viewer can handle being given a lot of shots.

That's not how CBS does it, not how most American networks do it. And they got their ass in a pinch because not just one amazing thing happened, but two amazing things happened. And then Faldo that tip squat. He told us. I don't want to ruin it. You just did. I mean, come on now.

So that was bad. And I think that CBS, from that standpoint following what the tournament should have been, was not great. But here's another thing that I noticed they did. So you notice how, as the tournament came down the stretch, all of the wonderful wide-angle shot tracer views of drives, which every golfer loves, because you can see where the ball is going. Right. They went from those. Why? And I believe.

I noticed it, too. I noticed it all week. Well, because I believe CBS and Barrow, and maybe at the urging of the club, believes in a more filmmaker's aesthetic of, let's use a tight angle of the golfer's face hitting. As long as we have a camera in the fairway to show where it lands, we're good. And the shot tracer is a video game type of concept that is not worthy of the cinematic finish. of a tradition, unlike any other. I firmly believe that's the sort of the aesthetic they go for down the stretch, because there's no reason not to use shot tracer all day, every day,

when it comes to golf broadcast. But they go for something a little bit different. That said, some of the drone shots were absolutely magnificent. That said, I think Lance was at his best. But there was unfortunate gas. Valdo, I think, has jumped the shark. Doddy Pepper saying that Schephyler was laying up with a knocked iron

and then he rips the four iron 220 around a tree to the cream not great. Missing those shots of Rory holing out, not great. So it was a mixed bag. And now on the Ballionis thing, here's my theory. Ballionis cannot be so

I don't want to say clues. She cannot understand, she can't not understand the only question Anyone wants to know about Tiger? So when are we going to see you next? It was a great date. This was a great first date with Tiger.

I had all the butterflies. It was I'm on cloud nine. Can we do this again? When are we going to see you next? It's the obvious question. She's got producers that could have said, hey, make sure to follow up with. Right.

When are we going to do it? She didn't. Who got it? Kara Robinson, Golf Channel, working for Sky News, two minutes later. Now, I believe my theory is

Tiger told Ballionis or Ms. Renner now look I know you're going to want to ask me about where I'm playing but I promise Kara I give that to her because she's been good to me and she needs it right now

I don't I don't did somebody say that that's what happened I don't believe that I don't believe that. No, no I only plausible because that's not plausible that's not true

Well, if that's not true, then Amanda Ballionis slash renter is out over her skis, in overhead, and should not have that position. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I've ever had an issue with her in the past. I don't know. I don't watch every single post-match interview. I watch a lot of golf, not just non-major golf, and CBS doesn't have all of it. Her vibe is super fan girlish. And look, she's pleasant. She's pleasant.

She's smart enough. She's pretty good on TV. Here's the thing. She's not a journalist, so that's the thing. She's not meant to break stories. She's there to put quarters into the jukebox of the players saying, like, how did it feel to be out there after the car crash that almost took your life? Quarter in the jukebox, Tiger's a field. Follow-up question.

Boom, done. She's a presenter. She is part of the cast of CBS's presentation. She's not there to break news. but in this moment it's a big whiff yeah it's the only thing anybody wanted to know at that moment

when are you playing next what's your schedule are you going to play the PGA at Southern Hills and May or not I mean that's that's what everybody you don't have to be a journalist to know that yeah so you think

so you think she just came locked in with two questions and whiff yeah I don't I don't think Tiger I mean Tiger Tiger, but it's CBS. They're the main broadcaster of this incredible event and have been for years.

I don't see Tiger telling them, I'm going to give this information to the Golf Channel. Don't ask me about it. And by the way, if he did, I don't think I'd pay attention to him anyway, because I know what we pay at CBS for this tournament, and the Golf Channel doesn't pay anywhere near that amount. So this is what everybody wants to know. And by the way, I don't blame her for, you know, perhaps having a brain lock and not in not thinking of it. Everybody makes those mistakes as an interviewer, journalist or sports talk radio host. But you've got to be as a producer before you've got to say to her, look, this is the most important thing.

But we got to find out what, you know, how does he feeling after these, you know, after these 72 holes? What did he, you know, where did he go wrong today? all right, Tiger, let's talk about where you are, how you're feeling, and what's next. Because this was so exciting, you made the cut, what is your schedule going to be? The producer

has to do that, and by the way, he gave her an opening by saying we've got some work to do forward to it, and immediately all my ran went up, and then she just walked right by it. My question would have been simple. It would have been, Tiger.

I've got to be honest, it was really exciting for everyone here and on TV to watch it play again. Can your knee, can your foot, can your leg get better and when are we going to see an X? Yeah. Mike and face. Short and sweet. That's the not of it right there. But I don't know, TV is a weird piece. Maybe there'll be an explanation.

But hey, we found out shortly afterwards different outlets going to play at St. Andrews. And I think he could well be a factor there. Very flat, very walkable. It requires a lot of knowledge of how to play the course in different conditions. I would not discount Tiger at the O. Well, I told Scott in the interview that's coming up that we've now basically told you half of what's in it, that I would be, I am absolutely expecting him at the PGA at Southern Hills. Unless physically something happened here and there was a setback,

If there wasn't a setback physically, I'd be shocked if he's not playing the PGA championship at Southern Hills. And I know it's not an easy course to walk, but he just walked the most difficult of all of the courses. Now, Muirfield, like, is he going to play Jack's tournament in Columbus and Dublin? Probably not this year. Maybe, you know, in coming years, that's also a very difficult course to walk. But I think he's going to play the PGA. And I bet you he plays the Open, too. Well, the U.S. opens at Brookline. That is very up and down.

I know. I heard. Yeah, I've never seen it. From Ryder Cup in 99, that place looked like a mountain goat place. Southern Hill is interesting because it's in May now, the PGA. They've ended up the next one. And when he won there, it was a billion degrees because it was August in, you know, Oklahoma. It won't be as hot this time, which is good for most people. people, but may not be great for his leg. He may have to recover from this.

It's going to take maybe more than a month to recover from what he put his leg through this week at Augusta. So I don't know about that. I also don't think he or any other pro puts the PGA championship anything but forth in the important level of the agent. Yeah, I get that. But it's, I don't know, what I saw was a guy, look, after Friday when he shot 70, and by the way, 74 was a pretty decent score Friday,

but he really started to drive the ball well, which I thought he did pretty much all weekend long, or certainly the final three rounds. In difficult conditions on Friday, there was an edge to his post-match interview where he said, you know, tomorrow is about getting into contention, you know, and being there for the back nine on Sunday,

which, you know, at that point he was like nine shots behind Schephyr already. But still, I just think that it's a, It's an addiction. You know, with a lot of these very narrowly focused competitive, you know, everybody always says, well, every professional athlete's competitive. No, that's not true. Some are just extremely talented and they don't really like what they're doing.

The hyper-competitive levels of the Kobe's and the Jordans and the Tigers, they live for this. It's what allows them to breathe. So I think he can't wait to get back out there again after 278s. Some athletes like winning. Others hate losing. Yeah. There's a difference. There is.

You can listen to Zab's podcast. Zabcast, anywhere you get a podcast. You can also listen to him to his morning show, which is a Milwaukee-Wisconsin morning show, the 97.3 game station up there. Appreciate it. As always, let's do it again soon. Thanks.

All right, man. All right. Always great to have Zabe on the podcast. All right, up next, you'll hear my interview with Scott Van Pelt, which we've told you a little bit about already, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, joining us on the podcast now is my good friend, Scott Van Pelt, who did a great job on ESPN's coverage of the Masters on Thursday and Friday

and just got back from Augusta last night. Let's start with what was the biggest story of the weekend, and that was Tiger Woods. what did you make of the Tiger Woods weekend? That's not the biggest story. I think it was. I thought the biggest story. I think it was.

No, it wasn't the number one player in the world who's won three or five events, showed up and won. That's the biggest story of the weekend. Do you think that that was the most talked about story of the weekend by people who are golf fans? No, of course not. It's just, but just there are two different things. Okay, well, let me rephrase then, because I want to start with Tiger Woods, because I think more people care about Tiger Woods and how he played and what your reaction was to Tiger Woods' return to golf at Augusta

than what was really impressive, which was Scotty Schaeffer winning for the fourth time in 57 days. But we'll get to that in a moment. Let's start with Tiger. Okay. It was awesome to see him back there. And what's so interesting about it was how well he played in that first day, which allowed you to really entertain silly things. Like, wait, is this, is this really a thing?

I mean, if he's here to maybe really throw his hat in the ring, that just doesn't seem reasonable. And then over the course of four days, it wasn't. You saw the toll physically. And then the fact that the weather was just Friday and Saturday was as difficult as you'll ever see it there. And in the end, he, you know, shoots a lot. But 78, 78, but what was something notable about that is he walks off the course with a gigantic

smile on his face and says he's thankful after 78, 78. So that frames it for me that he knows exactly what this was. And it was a gigantic step. It was successful. He was back in the arena. And that's something that not even he, he, knew or new could happen not that long ago. So it was amazing to see the way people reacted to them, certainly at Augusta.

And based on TV numbers, it certainly seems like a lot of people out there were interested to watch. First of all, how difficult, I mean, we're watching on TV, you're there. How difficult were those conditions on Thursday and Friday and Saturday? It was as cold Saturday as I've ever felt it there. and I've been there since 97. It was 25 years ago. So, I mean, the only other time I can remember it being like that was the years

Jack Johnson won where over the weekend it got so cold that people had on like the wool hats and whatnot. But, I mean, it felt like a football Saturday or Sunday in the late fall, early winter. I mean, it was in the 50s, and it was wind blowing, and it's just not what it's like there. And the wind on Friday was nuts. I mean, howling. And that golf course is hard. you've got to be really precise when it's not windy. And so you've got howling when you can see on certain holes

where the sand is just being whipped out of the bunkers. And the scoring average spoke to that, that it was brutally difficult to do anything. And the fact that Sheffler on Friday was able to create that five-shot lead, the way he played, was significant. And as it turned out, I mean, that was the margin he was working with the rest of the way. What did Tiger do well and what didn't he do well? He putted horribly, particularly on the weekend.

He couldn't make a putt. It was like 36 putts, I think it was, on Saturday. I might be off by a few, but not by many. But the actual ball strike hitting the greens, he swung it well with his driver. Yeah. even when he was really good wasn't always something he could trust

and it looked like that was one thing he really trusted was he was swinging with like freedom of belief that he thought I can hit it down the middle and mostly he did so that that was good

short game was mostly pretty good he just didn't put it well and he had plenty of company he was over par and he had eight or nine guys finished underpaw So, you know, it was pretty clear that, you know, physically he was on E there by the end, and he saw it's difficult.

Everyone has by now, knows how hilly it is because it was certainly a point that was made over and over again this week. I mean, you know, the guy's legs messed up, you know, really severely injured. And this was his first opportunity to get some sort of feedback about what he could do. And, you know, we leave knowing he's going to play St. Andrews, the two opens in the middle, excuse me, the PGA championship at Southern Hills and the U.S. Open in the middle, we don't know. But he did say he played St. Andrews. Yeah, I want to get to what's next in a moment you sort of answered, or you've answered most of it. But I thought that he drove it really well, too, and it looked like his swing speed. You know, they were, I was watching a lot of the featured group stuff with Colt Nost and that group on Thursday and Friday when Tiger's round was.

out there and it got better and he really started to hit the driver well. I'm just wondering, like, if he walks away from this weekend thinking, I putted terribly, but that's something I've always done well and it doesn't necessarily require, you know, a great leg ultimately to improve the putting and everything else seemed to work. Yeah, that's not unreasonable. Look, he played well enough to make the cut. And there's a decent number of, excellent players, including Brooks Kepka and, you know, Spieth, and, you know,

I could keep going other major champions who didn't. So he stuck around to play the weekend, which is a win, undoubtedly, given where he was. And again, I just looked at a guy that was pissed off if he didn't win for most of his career, all of his career.

And in this case, shoot 78, 78, and that smile walking up that hill on 18 was just so, instructive to me about what he what he came there to do and what he appeared to do in my opinion so I mean you know just he played and there's you know I wasn't trying to be combative

off the top about what the big story was a little bit you were clearly well but but that's because the guy's number one in the world he's won four tournament I understand that 25 and just the biggest stories who won the tournament well that's that's a debatable as to whether or not it was the biggest story. The biggest story during the entire weekend, and the reason the numbers

were what they were is because Tiger was playing. Of course. Of course. It was okay. It was okay for me to start with Tiger. It's your pod. You can do whatever you want. Well, I mean, you can tell me that you think I'm completely off base. I think. Yeah, but you debated me on the number one story. Fine. Let's just agree that Scotty Schaeffer winning the tournament was the number one story. But it's okay in the conversation about the Masters this weekend on Monday to start with Tiger. You would agree with that. Undoubtedly, I'm going to do 800 shows today, and I'm sure that's the first thing everyone's going to ask me about.

So you said, you know, and he said he's going to play, he's going to play St. Andrews in July. What do you think will happen between now and then? Just guess. I think his body will have given him the feedback of what hurts and how his body reacted after rounds and he'll hunker down with his group to figure out all right, what do we do? What do I need to do physically to create more strength in this leg to give me a chance to compete? And I don't know what that means. I don't know if there are other procedures. I don't mean surgical.

I have no idea. I just mean like are there other medical sort of treatments that we can that we can avail ourselves of between now and July at the latest or May at the soonest and figure out how to compete because at this point, I wouldn't expect to see him turning up at random tournament A, B, or C on the PGA tour, I would expect it to be the big ones. And he said as much. I thought it was interesting. I don't know if you heard the sound that we had from Alex Smith about how, because it

was the same leg, right, the right leg, and how that's the trail leg wouldn't throw. and that's the back leg when you swing that it allowed if it had it been his left leg, you couldn't have done it. And I found that really interesting to think about that as bad as the injury was and how difficult it makes it to walk. He's still going to be able to figure out some kind of way,

and I think you saw that. You saw that it doesn't look the same. But, I mean, there's some swings that you'd never know the difference just in terms of the freedom of the swing, and you see it piped down the middle, and look at that. I mean, it's,

It really was amazing. And from Monday, when I got there a week ago and saw these enormous crowds following him anywhere he went through the TV numbers and just the reception that he got on Sunday, it was obvious that people were craning their neck to get a look at the guy again. Yeah, and I actually thought Thursday and Friday could have actually been a little. bit better scoring-wise. I think, you know, the wind, you know, messed with a couple of very well-hit iron shots to greens where they caught the green and then rolled off. I mean, it was happening to everybody on that day. So, you know, 74, 74 on Friday was a pretty good score on Friday when you compare it to the rest of the field. I mean, it was really amazing to see Friday and Saturday at that place. But I don't know. Part of me thinks, and you know so much better,

because you know him and you know what everybody's talking about. I just don't see any chance that he's going to miss the PGA. I think that's over a month from now. And I think when they tee it up at Southern Hills, and Sands told me last week that Southern Hills is another difficult place to walk, but there's no place more difficult than Augusta. But I just don't see any way unless there's some sort of physical setback that, you know, this week that he's not teeing it up, you know, for the PGA on May 9th.

19th. If anything I say would be a guess, because I just truly have no idea. I know St. Andrews is his favorite course because he said it to me, and he said it, I think he said it in his answer yesterday. I mean, he, Augusta and St. Andrews are the two for a lot of people, as they are for him. And St. Andrews is a flat, a length golf course. So that's as walkable as they get. I understand what you're saying, but I think that the two,

the two if he were going to pick two and said there's the only two you could play, it would have been the first one and the last one. And he figured out a way to endure the first one. And it wouldn't shock me if he spent the time between now and then to figure out how to be ready to try to truly compete in the open. So I don't know. We'll find out soon enough. I mean, the PGA championships on ESPN, obviously,

given the numbers we'd be thrilled just from an eyeball standpoint if that were the case. If it's not, then we've got the Sheffler story to package and sell, right? Yeah, all right. So let's talk about Sheffler, who's won four times in 57 days, fastest to rise to number one without ever having won a tournament before he won his first tournament. This was the first exposure a lot of people had to Scotty Sheffler. Tell everybody what Scotty Schephler is about. He's just interesting in his makeup. He's only 25 years old, but there's an old soul quality to him. And a, you know, these young guys, like Amora Cow is not much younger. You know, Justin Thomas is a little bit older, but you look at this group of those, these 20-sum,

and there's so many of them. And he feels like the old guy of the bunch, and he's not. He looks like the oldest. He certainly looks like the oldest. Yeah. Right. No, people say he's got sort of like the, he's got sort of like the dad vibe about him. And he's a very serious dude.

When he was a kid, the story goes that he, in the heat of the Texas summer, he would wear pants when he played because he wanted to look like a PGA tour pro because that's what he aspired to be. And there's no nonsense or BS about him. He came on my show the week before the Masters,

after he became number one. And he's very, you know, humble and matter of fact about being number one. He just, none of it felt different. Like, I'm just the same guy doing the same stuff. He put, you know, the process above the results, wasn't worried about winning or rankings. You know, you just do the work and it kind of takes care of himself. And, you know, I think you heard him talk very openly after he won

about being a really emotional Sunday morning thinking, I don't know if I'm, I'll think I'm ready for this because, I mean, I want to overstate this. You know, I get that people might hear the way we talk about the masters and roll the rise or think it's a bit of hyperbole, but it's a kingmaker. You know, it's a life changer. You win it, and you're different. And he wakes up Sunday and thinks, holy shit. And my guy, this is a lot. You know, what if I've got to lead?

What if I don't. I mean, I don't know if that's what he's thinking, but it would be reasonable if he did. did, right? And then he goes out and Smith birdies the first two and the whole thing's wobbly on three and he chips in and Smith bogeys and then it's like you can exhale from there. He just never really wavered. But in terms of his game, I mean, if you, especially people who play, you watch and you go, what do you do with his feet? And his feet are all over the place. And it's not a swing you necessarily teach because it's sort of not technically the way the game's taught. But it's his

and he knows what he's doing, but I mean, he's a bad boy, man. He took on John Rahm in the Ryder Cup, beat him. Won his first one on Super Bowl Sunday and hasn't stopped winning since. And I think it's all legitimately a bit

overwhelming to him when he looks at it in its totality, right? Like, this is, you're now the guy, and it happened in a hurry. And so now he just has to sort of figure out what that means. what comes with that. But he's a serious kid, a kid, young man who is really likable, easy smile, you know,

good guy, the whole bit. There's just not a whole lot extra there. Like he's not out there trying to be flashy or, you know, anything else. He's just about to work in the game and here it is. Yeah, I mean, I think most golf fans' first exposure was that Harding Park, you know, where he was right where he was right there with Mori Cowan. Really, I had never heard of him before then. That was this first PGA, Kevin.

That was his first one. I mean, coming into the Masters, he put the last six majors, he played in seven, and the last six were all top 20s, including Harding Park, where he's in the last group. And, you know, he told me that made him believe, you know, that he could compete because he was there and he kind of hung around and never had that moment where he was exposed as being not ready for the moment. He didn't win, but it wasn't.

he wasn't good enough. He just more, more, more, kind of went crazy at Harding Park. And, you know, that, that gave him beliefs like, oh, like, okay, I'm here and this is what I'm supposed to do. So, you know, I'm probably off on this, but this is just kind of my impression. Like, we really felt like Spieth was going to be the guy there for a while, and because everybody always frames it in the, you know, and sort of with Tiger as the, as the goal. Like, can, can Jordan get on one of these runs and start winning a lot of majors. But there were people that said there's one flaw to his game, and that is he doesn't hit it very hard, doesn't hit it very far, excuse me. Dechambeau, the last couple of years, look out, this is going to be a major run. But there were always some questions

about, you know, physically the whole thing. Now are people going to say this about Schaeffer? I mean, he's won four times in the last two months, which is an incredible run. I mean, this is what people are going to say about him. What do you make of his future? I mean, what do you, do you put him, is that, is that a comparison that's, that's, that's apt? It's going to happen just because when you win this much, this quickly, and you win a lot of different ways. In other words, you win in Phoenix, which is the rowdiest, most raucous event you see of the year, and then you win in Orlando at Bay Hill in conditions that were incredibly difficult, and then you win a match play event, which is obviously, by definition,

different than a stroke play event and then you win the Masters. Well, that's sort of like four different flavors of ice cream. And so that invites people to get not ahead of themselves. It invites them just to go crazy and go, well, how many can he win?

Pump the brakes part of it for me is that Brooks Kepp is still here, right? He didn't go anywhere. And you mentioned Speed. He's still in the mix. He's 20-some Justin Thomas's. You know, he's really wanting

to get that second one to do. if you want to say only, he's only got the one major. Rory's still right here, and he's had one of a major since 2014. And I guess what I'm getting out with his answer is that winning use is really difficult because of the depth of who's here. You know, like Dustin Johnson shows up in the highlight. You're like, oh, yeah, didn't you shoot 20 under here in November? That year they won't yet yet he's still here.

It's just there's so many people that to think that you go on a, run where, I mean, if you win, say he won three or four majors over the course of the next power of many years, that's a shit ton of majors. It's a whole, it's a hall of fame territory. It starts to put him into that conversation. Yeah. That's exactly right. So I think that's the problem that we have with the way things work now is that there's probably

a decent number of people that weren't that familiar with Scottie Shephler not long ago, who now are going to try to, are going to rush to say, well, then I guess he must, he's probably going to win 10 majors. If he does, then that's going to put him third in the history of the game. So it's just, it's probably reasonable to just, to look at what he's done in the last two months and certainly recalibrate what you think he can be moving forward, but try not to say he has,

everything has to be seen through some lens of Tiger Woods or double-digit majors or something, because that just mostly has never happened. A couple more, and I'll let you run, specific to yesterday. I thought three was the critical of shot. He, you know, Cam Smith opened with the two birdies. They were within a shot all of a sudden, and then Shephler's off the green and chips in on three.

I thought that was the biggest shot of the day. Do you agree? Without question, because Shephler hit a big swooping hook, and, you know, he gets relief because of the leaderboard. And then I thought the shot that was the shot was Smith's second. Because once Sheple missed the green, and that green is so tiny and so difficult to hit, when Smith missed the green was his second and the ball rolled right back down to where Shepler's was, that was a chance that Smith let go to really exert pressure.

And then because Shepler hits first, then he makes it. And then Smith ends up making bogey. Well, now all of a sudden, all that work you did over the first two holes to get within a shot with a guy that we found out later was feeling all the pressure. Well, now it's gone. And now you've spent three holes, and you're right back to where you started. And I think, you know, even then he still was in the mix right up until 12. Yeah, until 12.

When Smith made Birdie and then Smith rinsed one, which, you know, that's been a, when Tiger won in 19, you know, three different guys right around tag. Yeah. Put it in the water. Molin area. All of them. I mean, 12 has always been pivotal, but there's no doubt that he was definitely on the ropes, and three

was a knockdown of his own. Do you like Cam Smith? I actually really am a fan of his, and I was rooting for him yesterday. He's awesome. I'll tell you a quick story. So he comes down to the he comes down to Butler Cabin on

Thursday after he shoots 68 opens and closes with double, right, and still shoot 68, which is insane. And he's, you know, such a sort of quiet, unassuming guy, and we were sitting there just chit-chatting a little bit as we were waiting to come on, and then after we got done, I shook his hand,

and it was like super, super, like, sweaty hand. And he said to me, goes, mate I've never been more nervous in my life and I and I looked around and I laughed and like I'm like about I said oh I said I'm just on cable at midnight I'm not that big a deal and I laughed and I said I know Butler right he goes yeah I always wanted to come here you know for the first time on a Sunday and I said well you know I should come down come back on Sunday because you know I always say the same thing to these guys I'm like Jim's here and he's got a much better parting gift to me but it was just so funny to be reminded of

where I sit for those first two days and the idea of, hey, would you go down to Butler Cabin for an interview? I mean, that's a big deal. And I just thought, isn't that great? You know, here's a guy who's an excellent player who just played a great round. And just the idea of being here is a great reminder to me of the event that I get to work. You know what I mean? Lastly, Rory's final round 64 and the shot at 18 was incredible.

I actually thought he could have had a better round. The drive on 15 was a killer because he needed to take advantage of that. Kevin, he had eight iron into the second hole for his second shot. I know. I mean, he missed two par five opportunities and still shot 64. The people that follow the game very closely know that he's sort of been the king of don't play well early for whatever reason. And frankly, reasons we can't figure out.

but then go low on the weekend and, you know, backdoor a top ten. Well, this wasn't backdoor of top ten. This is finished second and really invite people to do what we're doing right now. You know how close he was to shooting, like, even less than that? You know? And if he could just get off to a decent start one of these times, you know, maybe he finishes off the slam. But he and Moracawa were just showing off, you know,

two guys that enjoy each other's company who are both multiple major champions, and they were both I mean I think I want to say I want to say Morikawa shot 5 under and got beat by by 3 because Roy shot 8 yesterday yeah yeah yeah yeah more

yeah yeah more cow shot 67 and and Morcault told me after the round he said I've just I've never heard the sound like that in my life that's what Rory said too yeah he said it was the loudest he's ever heard at 18

that's it was just so cool I mean and then and you know after after makes it, you know, more, seeing more, like, seeing Rory respond with, you know, he was just a psych to see Colin make it, because they both kind of knew where they were, right?

We're not going to win. We're not going to win, but, you know, kind of fun to flex on the, you know, flex for the folks here on the 18th. It was awesome. What is the scene, that was. Unfortunately, that was really the most drama we had because Sheffler had built such a lead that,

by the end, they're really, I mean, a guy, like, I don't know how many putty he had on 18, Four. It was so awkward and I felt so awful for him, but I loved before the last one, where the crowd really came to his assistance and started chanting his name, but it was odd. Something tells me that if he had to make those putts, he would have made him with the way he was putting all weekend. But back to Rory. So what is the reason that Rory hasn't won a major since 2014? he's never put himself in the mix.

It's the strangest sort of phenomenon. I mean, there's a reason he's got this rep, and he doesn't play horribly, but it's just kind of spins his wheels and doesn't, you know, puts himself, you know, eight back or something heading into the weekend, and then it's just too big a hill to climb,

and then the talent takes over, you get kind of freed up and you just say the hell with it, let's just go play. I don't know, I mean, there seems like there's some sort of sports psychology in here of just, I mean, how do you tell yourself to play the way you play on Sunday on Thursday? Because, you know, if Rory

goes out of August on Thursday and shoots 64, well now everybody's like, here we go, giddy up, right? But, I mean, he had one of majors since 2014, which isn't to say that's 100 years, it's not. It's just when you're him, it's the kind thing when you go, huh, that's a while for somebody as talented as him. Yeah, I think it's shocking. I mean, you know, even the stretches that Tiger or Nicholas or any of the greats have, I'm not putting him into that category, but he certainly has been as talented as any player

of his generation. But, you know, if he doesn't win one this year, that's, you know, it's eight years. I mean, you're starting to approach a decade between majors if he wins another one. And I know that he's got plenty of time to do it because he's, you know, still, well, what is he? Is he 34 years old now, 35? Is he almost his mid-30s? I don't even know. He seemed so young when he started to contend in that first master's.

I'd be guessing. I think it's 33. I'm guessing. Okay. Let's look it up. Okay, I'll look it up. You Google it right now. I'm looking it up right now.

32, 33. He's 32 years old. He turns 30. three and less than a month on May 4th. So that I was right, if it was the price is right, I think I would have won both showcases right there. Maybe. Well, no, you would

have, I guess, because I would have gone over. I would have been over and I would have been, that meant as long as you're under, you're good with everybody else over. But anyway, what else did I miss? Tell them what he's want. What else did I miss

from? I mean, I enjoyed the whole weekend. And I watched every, the guy that I think, and I know that this isn't a revelation at all, but the guy that strikes me, you know how they, Corvin was saying this at the end, you know, everybody always says to Cam Smith or whatever, you'll be here one day, don't worry, your day's coming. Well, there's no guarantee that his days coming at Augusta. I mean, it's really hard. But everybody always says that.

But the player that I think is going to win majors is this Zalotaurus. Does everybody else kind of feel the same way or not? Yes, he just has to sort out his putting because he is as fine a striker of the golf ball as anyone on the planet. He's played there twice. He's finished second and sixth. I mean, he is just an absolute savant in terms of ball hitting. But he's got his putting stroke, and it's something he's working on.

if you're like a week to week tour watcher you know that he had a great opportunity to win out at tory pines and just missed a little short one on the par 518th you just watch the stroke and you're like oh god and that's the issue he just he just has to find something that he's a bit more confident with on the greens and win slash if he does the way he hits it he's going to give himself chance after chance to contend There's no question we everybody in the game agrees because he just hasn't played in many. And he's all, every time he plays, he seems to be a contender. All right. That's it.

I appreciate it. Welcome back. I'll talk to you this week. Let's play some golf. It's going to be nice. It is going to be nice. I'm up for it. I'm playing already once this week, but I'm ready to do it again.

We'll figure it out. And, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, I was thinking about this. I was trying to explain to my boys. Back in the day, way back in the day, like after Wimbledon or the U.S. Open tennis, you would go to like a public tennis court and there would be lines, you know, to play tennis. Well, tennis, you know, kind of faded in this country anyway in terms of popularity. And now you can drive by any public tennis courts and they're empty pretty much all the time. But I would imagine after a day like yesterday, how many people are on the course today. If the courses are open. It just, it is, you just sit there and you're watching, like, okay, maybe I picked up something from this guy. Maybe I could do it that way next time. But I would bet you, here's a thing.

We can't. You didn't. I know. I understand. But the, the overarching theme is I would imagine on the day after a major, it's one of, it's like, it's a massive day in. for golf courses from a customer in a revenue standpoint. Especially after the Masters.

The Masters is the one that everyone watches, and it gets you with some nostalgic feeling, and if you swing a club at all, you just think how to get out there, especially if you're somewhere where it's been cold, let's get out there and swing a couple of nights. See what we got. It looked beautiful yesterday.

All right, I'll talk to you later. Thanks. All right, thanks, man. all right that's it for the show today back tomorrow with Tommy