The Kevin Sheehan Show - Dalvin Cook?

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Kevin opened the show talking about the suggestion from former NFL GM Mike Lombardi that the best landing spot for Dalvin Cook is Washington. Kevin was joined by Howard Gutman on the show today to talk about Howard's days working for Studio 54 founder Steve Rubell. Howard talked some Commanders' ownership dates/logistics and the Harris-Gibbs connection too.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. He is Kevin. Washington, to me, should be all over, Dowland Cook. Because they need a running back that can be electric, right? Robinson average 3-9 a carry. Gibson average 3-9 a carry.

They don't have a playmaker. When they had J.D. McKissick, they were very good offensively, and then he got hurt. You know, remember, he was the kid that signed with Buffalo, and then Washington lowered him back. Now, Washington's going through an ownership change, so maybe that's limiting how much funds they can spend. We'll know about that come July 20th.

But I'm projecting that based on what I think would be the fits that would make the team better, right? If Washington had Dalvin Cook to go along with Sam Howard Rookie in Eric B. Enemy's West Coast offense, I think that would really take a lot of pressure off the young quarterback. That was former NFL general manager, Mike Lombardi, recently on the Pat McAfee show, suggesting that the best fit for former volleyball, Vikings running back, Dalvin Cook, is Washington. Hmm. More on that coming up here in a minute.

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Many listeners have been customer. customers and I wouldn't be endorsing Window Nation or have endorsed Windonation for as long as I've endorsed Windonation, which is 14 years now, if I didn't have complete trust in them. Call them at 86690 Nation or go online at Window Nation.com. One guest on the show today, Howard Gutman will be on with us, but we're not going to talk to Howard about the normal, you know, Washington commanders' ownership situation or a Snyder investigation. We'll talk a little football with Howard, but as I mentioned, as I mentioned yesterday with Tommy,

Howard's on the show today to talk about his acting career and his closeness to many of the Hollywood elite. So that's next with Howard Gutman, and we will talk some football as well. Back to Mike Lombardi's suggestion that Dalvin Cook would be a perfect fit for. Washington. And by the way, he mentioned, you know, J.D. McKissick. They haven't been dynamic or explosive since J.D. McKissick. I don't know what he's talking about. Look, I like J.D. McKissick a lot. I thought that they were much better with J.D. McKissick in 2020, healthy. And even for some of those stretches in 2021, McIssick before the injury, was a really good football player for them. And they were better

offensively with McKissick in there as a change of pace for Gibson at the time. But Gibson is explosive. I mean, all you got to do is turn on the film from 2020 and watch him, from 2021 and watch him take a screen pass against the Buffalo Bills and take at the distance some 80 yards. It was close to that. I forget exactly how long that play was, but it was 75 to 80 yards. Gibson's explosive. I like Gibson and every possible situation offensively. I like him as a 20-plus carry-a-guy a game. I like him in space.

I just think Gibson's really good. Most of you know that about me. I'm a big Antonio Gibson fan. I'm a big Brian Robinson Jr. fan, too. And I do understand why some, including like Bill Barnwell, who broke down receivers, tight ends, running backs of all 32 teams, and is high on the receiving corps, but not high on Washington's running back room. And they look at a lot of the traditional numbers, and I'm sure advanced numbers as well,

but the bottom line is the 3.9 yards per carry for Brian Robinson Jr. last year, and the 3.7 for Antonio Gibson were actually pretty effective averages considering, or they were pretty impressive numbers, considering how bad the offensive line was. And considering that they were not able to stretch the field vertically and threatening with their quarterback down the field, which allowed teams to play them in a way that they didn't fear the deep throw. So I don't know. I know what my eyes tell me about Brian Robinson, Jr. I see a guy that could be a 1,400, 1,400 yard a season running back is the primary 20-plus carry a game guy. I know what my eyes tell me about Antonio Gibson, especially after

you know, he rid himself of that fumbling issue. I see a very dynamic back and explosive back and a real playmaking back. And I think he can be used in so many different ways. Washington does not need a running back. They certainly don't need Dalvin Cook at $8 to $10 million a year. I don't know what he's going to get. But if you take the top 10 salaries, average annual, including the franchise tagged running backs of Pollard, Josh Jacobs, and Saquan Barkley, Dalvin Cook's going to get somewhere near the average of the top 10, which is somewhere around $9 million. Actually, it's more than that. What am I talking about?

The top nine salaries at running back, the average is $13 million. And then number 11 is James Connor at $7 million a year. They're not going to pay Dalvin Cook that kind of money. They like their running back room, and so do I. I don't think they need Dalvin Cook. I think the running backs are going to be fine this year with hopefully an improved offensive line, hopefully an improved quarterback, and downfield passing game, and with hopefully a better scheme and better play calling, which many of you have wanted for a while.

Anyway, I do not think that they will sign Dalvin Cook. I think they're happy with their running back room. I don't know what they think of Chris Rodriguez at this point. we know what they, meaning Ron Rivera and company thought about Jonathan Williams. I don't know what Eric B. Enemy thinks of Jonathan Williams, but I like the one-two combo of Brian Robinson Jr. and Antonio Gibson. I like it a lot. I don't think they need to spend big on Dalvin Cook or whatever big means for a running back,

because it's not going to be a one-year, $5 million deal with incentives. I don't think it's going to be. Anyway, that's not what I would expect. All right. I wanted to read just this email that I got from Randy. I did this on radio this morning, but for those of you that didn't hear it, Randy heard my conversation with Ben Standing last week on radio, where Ben had written that story, which I think I told you all about on the podcast.

He wrote that story in The Athletic, which really detailed the past 12 seasons, or 2010 through 2021 anyway, a 12-year span in which basically day three quarterbacks drafted on the Saturday, fourth, fifth, sixth round. I'm sorry, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh rounds, basically had no chance of making it in the NFL. 74 of them were drafted, and only three of them had started more than 30 games. Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, and Tyrod Taylor. That was it. The other 71 were essentially invisible. for all intents and purposes. And so we had that conversation, which we've had on the podcast before, and talking about Sam Hal, and talking about, you know, draft history. I've gone back to the beginning of the century.

It's just very rare that a fifth rounder or later makes it. So I got this email from Randy. Randy wrote, are you trying to drive people crazy about Sam Hal? The conversation last week with Ben was about as much as I can take. teams passed him over. So what? They did the same with Brady. They did the same with your boy cousins. The guy has the best arm, the best accuracy, and the best mobility in one player we've seen here at quarterback ever. Well, that should discount the rest of this email right there. I'll come back to that in a moment. He's the real deal. You're going to look stupid, Kevin, when he becomes the story in the NFL this year, saying he won't be,

the guy in capital letters is going to get you, Kevin. I know you hate to hear this, but get on board or get lost. So, Randy, you've got like issues, man. You've got either a comprehension issue, you've got a listening issue. You might have both. Ben and I didn't predict anything. I haven't predicted anything for Sam Hal. I've been so consistent on this. And my consistency is, I have no idea about Sam Hal. I have no idea if he's, going to be good. I have no idea if he's going to be bad. I have no idea if he's going to end up being somewhere in between. I don't know about Sam Hal. I have no idea. There are things about his game that I like that I think translate well to, you know, playing quarterback in

2023. But I know that if he comes in as a legitimate quarterback, it's a long shot coming in. You know, I know that long shots hit sometimes, but it doesn't mean that they weren't long shots at the starting gate, which is where we are. He's a long shot to make it. But my personal evaluation is, I have no idea. I just don't know. I haven't seen enough. Nor have you. Nor have they.

They've seen a lot more than us, meaning the group out in Ashburn. but you've never heard me say he won't be the guy. You've heard me say that it's a long shot that he's the guy because that part is true. So with Randy, I did a search of his emails to me over the years. He's been a frequent emailer, not an obsessive one. Not that I care when you obsessively email me or tweet me. I appreciate the passion. for the show and the topics, et cetera.

But I found this from Randy from basically a year ago. It was in July of last year. And it was about Carson Wentz. And he wrote, Kevin, the draft picks and money are nothing for Carson Wentz. Are you really that mad at a second and third round pick for that guy? Come on, man. The Colts, by the way, let me just update. It was two thirds, not a second and a third.

It was two thirds plus the five spots. that Indy improved in the second round, and of course the $28 million that they paid him. But they didn't have to give up the second rounder because Carson Wentz didn't play the requisite number of snaps. He wrote, come on, man, the Colts hated that he wasn't vaccinated. That's why he's gone from Indianapolis. The Eagles had a coaching change. Wence was almost an MVP in 2017. Non-first round picks. Are you really being serious? The only bad part about this is that Ron Rivera will keep his job much longer than he deserves. Kevin, you got the cousins thing right, but you're going to look dumb on this one. The team is headed in the right direction at

quarterback. Be a better fan for once. I'm pretty sure I read this email a year ago because be a better fan for once was the, you know, get on board or get out with Carson Went's stuff that I got a lot of, and some of us got a lot of last year. I know most of you understand how ridiculous. Randy sounds. All right. But it's, Randy was dead wrong about Carson Wentz. So were so many of you. And just be careful. Maybe Sam How you'll be right on. By the way, I found this one from Randy. And this one, you know, is accurate as it relates to me being wrong. He sent me an email about Dwayne Haskins back in 2020 telling me that, so here it is, because I basically took the quotes out and copied and pasted them on my notes for the show today. He told me how much he agreed with me

on Haskins' talent and that I was right and that he should be given, Haskins should be given a fair chance to become the guy. Well, I was wrong about Dwayne Haskins. And by the way, so was Randy. Randy's O for two. I was looking to see if Randy had sent any, you know, emails praising Dan Snyder. I couldn't find those, and I couldn't find anything that he wrote about Ryan Fitzpatrick either. But I did like Joanne Haskins. I thought Joanne Haskins had a big arm. I thought Joanne Haskins had some moxie to him. I thought he was fearless on the field. I thought he was more mobile than people gave him credit for. I saw things in 2019 that I kind of liked and I wanted to see more. Now, what I didn't know and what none of us really knew, or very few knew at the time, was

it was difficult for him to transition into the NFL. I mean, part of that wasn't his doing. The owner picked him and the coaching staff and the front office didn't want him. You know, another, you know, major Dan issue. But, you know, apparently he was, you know, he lacked kind of the maturity to do what it took to, you know, really become, you know, really become, you know, an NFL quarterback. Apparently he was doing that prior to his death in Pittsburgh. It's really a shame. But I did like Dwayne Haskins' talent. I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. I figured it out eventually, as we all did when Ron Rivera benched him and didn't just bench him, demoted him to third string, and then cut him. So I was wrong about that one. So was Randy. Randy was wrong about that one. Maybe for people like Randy who loved Wentz and are totally get on board or get out people, maybe three times will be the charm with Sam Hal.

Look, I can't, and I don't want to constantly respond to people like Randy, but I do notice their tone, and it is somewhat interesting to me that we have this as part of the fan base, however small a portion of the fan base, it is, because I think most of you are much sharper. Randy and his gang, they're simpletons, total simpletons, total marks. You know, they're an easy, easy mark for the franchise, and they have been for a long period of time. I think most of you understand that you can look at the past as perhaps an indicator of the future, but not think in sports anyway that it's guaranteed. Sam Hal plays football. He's not a deck of cards.

So we'll see how, you know, if he can buck the long shot odds of day three quarterbacks, basically failing over and over and over again to become or materialize into legitimate NFL starting quarterbacks. Anyway, so there was one other thing real quickly that I, when I was reading the email. I mean, when he wrote that the guy has the best arm, the best accuracy, and the best mobility in one player we've seen here at quarterback ever, I mean, it's just not even close to true. So the first person I thought of, RG3's arm strength was off the charts. I thought he was pretty accurate as a thrower. And he's clearly the most mobile or the most explosively mobile quarterback we've ever had. But I did this on radio this morning.

And, you know, we had Kevin, who's a longtime caller, you know, made the case that, look, Joe may not have been as explosive, Joe Thaisman, as explosive with his mobility as RG3 was. He wasn't as fast, obviously. But Joe had much better vision. He wasn't a straight line track guy. Joe had wiggle. Joe made people miss. Joe probably is the best combination of arm, strength, arm accuracy, and mobility. and one quarterback that we've ever had. I'll buy into that. But we've had a bunch of them. I mean, Alex Smith before the injury. Heath Schuller, you know, was pretty mobile and had a big arm. He had other issues. Man, we got a lot of feedback to this discussion.

And arm strength-wise, you know, like Kevin tried to make the case that Joe's got one of, Not Kevin. Somebody else tried to make the case that Joe's got, you know, one of the strongest arms in franchise history. That's not true. Joe had great, had very good arm strength. But Jeff George had probably the strongest arm in franchise history. Sonny had an unbelievable arm.

Look, Sunny is number one. I mean, the greatest quarterback in franchise history is Sonny Jurgensen. The best arm, the best accuracy is Sunny. I mean, Sunny just wasn't mobile, which, you know, why it's why Sonny didn't come to mind in this conversation. But Jeff George and Jay Schrader probably had the strongest arms. Sonny probably, you know, close as well. You know, but they had the strongest arms.

And the most mobile, you know, are, you know, we had some mobile quarterbacks here. I mean, Joe, obviously. Mark Rippen, too, on arm strength. I forgot to mention him. Joe on mobility RG3 on mobility for sure Mark Brunel was pretty mobile McNabb wasn't mobile here

Alex Smith was damn mobile Alex Smith by the way before injury as a combination of arm strength and accuracy and mobility he's in that conversation he's not necessarily with with RG3 and thysman

but anyway we had a conversation about that this morning and it's, you know, we've had a lot of quarterbacks in franchise history. By the way, I'm not considering Sammy Baugh for this conversation. If Tommy were here, of course he'd be saying that Sammy Baugh had the strongest arm, the most accurate arm, and is the most mobile because he also played safety and he was a punner. I know all those things. Sammy Baugh is the highest rated player in franchise history.

On any list of the all-time greatest players in NFL history, Sammy Baugh is clearly the Redskins number one player of all time. I'm talking about the players that most of us can remember. Doug Williams had a big arm too. And I'm sure Eddie LeBaron was really, really mobile. All right. Howard Gutman next, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right.

Jumping on with us right now is, of course, our good friend Howard Gutman, long-time, prominent D.C. attorney, former ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years, host of as I see it on WRVA radio in Richmond and the Odyssey app, which if you download the Odyssey app, you can listen to Howard's show, and you can also listen to my radio show by downloading the Odyssey app. Howard is with us,

and before we get to some football stuff, but you know why I called you for today, and I talked to Tommy on the podcast about why you were going to be on today. But I did promise Tommy yesterday that I would ask you on his behalf for just maybe a cup of coffee somewhere so that he can pitch you on the show idea, the screenplay that he's written, because he's asked me for a while now to put him in touch with my Hollywood friends, to which I answered, well, I don't have any Hollywood friends. Tommy's is close to a Hollywood friend as I've ever had because he appeared in the wire.

But actually, as it turns out, Howard is the closest thing to a Hollywood friend that I have. And we're going to talk about that. But will you take a 30-minute, you know, meat for coffee, meet for a beer with Tommy to pitch you on his idea and see if you can help? I'll go to Shelly's with him. I'll pick up the tab. There you go. Tommy, he's going to pick up the tab. Now, let me just tell you, if he allows you to pick up the tab, let him do it, and then we can talk about it on the show, because that, I don't think Tommy will let you pick up the tab. No, this is a tab he has to pick up because you're doing him a favor. Just reminds me. That's why you always pick up the tab, so anything you've done

is gravy on top of the free meal. But okay, I'd love to try to help Look, I'm with you. I hate owing anybody anything. So I am usually there to offer to pick it up. But it just reminded me, Howard. I've told this story before, and I may have even told it with Tommy recently. Cooley and Zabe did a show together on 980 for two years before Cooley and I started doing a show together on 980. It was Cooley, Zabe, and Al, Galdi was a part of that show as well. And Zabe is a good friend, a dear friend of all of ours, but he is socially at times a little bit different. And so there was this day in which Zabe and Kooley, who lived near each other, way out in the bowels of Virginia, drove in together to work. And they got to within a half mile of the studio,

and Zab said, look, I'm going to drop you off right here. If you don't mind, I'm going to get a haircut. and Cooley said a half a mile from the station. And Cooley said, what? And then Cooley was quick enough to say, no problem, because Cooley knew it would make for a great segment on the show. When he explained to the audience that Zabe had dropped him off and made him walk to the studio a half mile,

instead of just turning down Rockville Pike, dropping Cooley off and then going to get the haircut, which is what most people would have done. And it turned into brilliant radio that day. So let Tommy allow you to pick up the check. If you offer and he doesn't push back, go ahead and pick it up because that'll be a great segment on the show. Because at that point, I don't know if I'll ever be able to set him up with anybody

to help him with anything if he's going to make the other person pick up the tab. In my book, Tom has put six. so much time to this city, he deserves free time to Chelleys. In all honesty, if he had something that was legitimately good in your opinion, do you think you'd be able to introduce him to somebody that could help? Here's what I would tell him. I would tell him that L.A. is the city I dislike the most. I love L.A. the way I love to visit the zoo.

I like seeing the lions, I like seeing the tigers, I like seeing the bears, but never get in the cage with them. So I can introduce Tom to lots of people who I have no doubt will either ridicule what he has or if it's good, we'll steal it. The key in L.A. is to have a rabbi strong enough that if you've got good stuff, he prevents you from stealing it. and I've got a rabbi that took me in. I don't know if he's strong enough to take us both in, and I'm not strong enough to protect Tommy, but if he's willing to be risked having some great material stolen and sitting there at Shelley's one day saying,

you see that series, that was mine, and Gutman got it stolen in L.A. As long as he goes with his eyes open, I can introduce him the people. Well, the first time that you and I actually got together, which was probably a couple of years ago. I mean, we had been communicating for a few years via email, text, or whatever. And then you came on the show a couple times, and it's been great ever since.

But we got together, I don't know, two years ago. It may have been before the pandemic or just slightly. I forget. But you shared some of those stories about having really good ideas that you ended up seeing on the air without any sort of attribution to you. So I had one series based on my law firm, Williams and Connolly, that was called Powers and Price, and it was about the Washington insider who could fix anything. And if he was unable ultimately to fix it, he would beat you in court.

And it was based on Edward Bennett Williams, who was the head of the law firm I joined and worked at for 27 years. and at one point owned both the Orioles and the Redskins. And Ed controlled the town, and he was also the best trial lawyer. And so I did a treatment on it, and I collaborated with a major to be unnamed Hollywood producer, writer on it. And I spent weeks and weeks, and the treatment was all mine. The pilot, we... Explain to what people... Explain to people what a treatment is, because that was the first time I had it.

heard that term. So if you're going to pitch a show in L.A., you write an overview of what the show is about, the characters, the point of the show for your favorite silo. These people are trapped underground. They don't know why. They don't know how. The past is mystery and problems and dynamics form among the leading characters. And then you give a sense of the leading characters.

And it's five pages that tells them what the season will look like. and then you do a pilot, which is the first episode. So the story idea, the powers and price, who the characters will be, how to make the Ed Williams character larger than life and the like, that was all mine, that was the treatment. I didn't have the juice to sell it. I knew enough people from my life, my politics, my contents, my contacts, my law, to know a pretty big producer.

I went out. You love the show. We had someone to pitch it to. And so we did the pilot. The pilot, we wrote maybe five drafts, each draft said, written by Blank and Blank and Howard Gutman. We get to the pitch meeting with ABC. So I'm excited. I'm a Washington lawyer.

You know, I work 80 hours a week fighting, you know, Microsoft in the anti-trust case against Microsoft or defending, you know, big-time people. but here I am going to a pitch meeting with the head of ABC, and the guy loves the show, I do the explaining, and when I look at the left behind, it turns out that version of the pilot has written by just the other guy. My name got taken off the draft between the last draft I saw and the draft we left at the pitch, and that is L.A. Now, the good news is they loved it.

They went forward, asked us to each negotiate deals. I wasn't going to get a rider credit because I got left out, so I had a very small part. I was going to get eaten alive. But just then, shortly thereafter, Barack Obama called and said, how do you like to go to Belgium as our ambassador? and Powers and Price could not proceed on ABC because they couldn't write it without me, and I couldn't write it as part of the State Department. So while they were busy cheating me, figuring I'd take whatever they could,

I was gone and left on my own. And Powers and Price never hit the airways. If Neil from Rockville or anybody else wants to pick up the pilot, please go ahead. So, I mean, I would assume that from that, experience you would recommend, but maybe they won't even look at things if they've got to sign, you know, confidentialities and non-disclosures and everything that would be protective, right? I mean, they get pitched all the time without it. Why would they want to hear pitches with it?

They will not sign an NDA because they'll claim all shows are alike. Everyone sees their show in what they've pitched, and they want to be free to see. say, no, look, they'll say, we're moral people, we won't steal from you, but we've seen these before. You've got a lawyer show. You basically had a lawyer show. Now, this was at a time when the lawyer shows

were not about the D.C. power broker. They didn't have this element. They just didn't. But they will not, you basically are at the risk of the people you deal with. And so if you go in, you either have to have a personal

relation, you're their nephew. in which case you'll only get ripped off a little bit, or you've got to have, you know, be connected enough that they don't want to really mess with you because the other people that they care about will know they did. Now, I happen to be a 27-year top Washington lawyer, a former U.S. ambassador, pretty well-connecting lots of things. So I'm not a great target to steal from,

plus the people I'm dealing with now on a project, I do believe, are upstanding and honorable. But it's hard. You know, if you're Tommy and it's your first, and the guy said, hey, we're willing to consider it, but this, this and this, you'll take almost anything. And then you turn around and say, wait a minute, I've got nothing. Right. I don't know that I've told this story before, but I may have. So it was during the early portion of the pandemic when the outdoor activities were, you know, emphasized.

and golf was not open everywhere, but it was open in some places. And playing golf when they told you, you know, being outside, fresh air was a good thing. I remember during those early days of the pandemic playing a lot of golf. Anyway, I'm out on the golf course with some friends, and we're doing what we typically do, which is gamble a lot on golf. And I'm in the middle of like the fifth fairway, and a friend of mine says, you know, basically something like three to one, you can't make par for. from there. And I said, all right, you know, order filled, as we like to say with each other

when it comes to betting. And with that, the caddy who was caddying for us that particular day said, Kevin, you don't want to take three to one. You need at least five to one on that. And I looked at him and I said, what? And he goes, five to one. And I go, wait a minute, hold on. I know you. And he goes, yeah, you know me. And I go, you're Brandon. Lang. And I think I said, you're Brandon Effing Lang. Anyway, Brandon Lang, some of you know the name. Brandon Lang was a tout, a gambling talent, a sports gambling tout. You paid for his picks. He had this huge business, huge thing. And he used to come on the radio show with me many, many years ago, once a week picking games. And then he went to Andy and Steve's show. And then I think he was on with

the junkies actually for many years. And so I'm like, what are you doing? And he goes, well, I, you know, in my part-time, I caddy at various places. And a lot of the places up on Long Island in the Hamptons where he caddied, like the National and Chinnacock, they were closed early in the pandemic. And so places that were open got caddies from all over the place. Anyway, I fast forward to like three hours later, the rounds over. we've had the time of our lives.

Brandon's a great guy, great stories, the whole thing. But the story that he told that is applicable to the conversation we're having right now is that there was a movie made in the mid-2000s. It was called Two for the Money. The movie starred Matthew McConaughey, Al Pacino, René Russo, and a few others. And it was about a gambling tout, you know, somebody that paid, that, made picks and got people to pay for their picks for sports betting. Well, the movie was made about Brandon Lang.

And his story about how he got the movie made about him was as follows. He was caddying. I know, you know, he's a sports tout. He's a cowdy. A caddy. He lives in Vegas. He had a movie made about him. Sounds like Howard Gutman's life without the actual big-time law.

and of course being an ambassador to a European nation. But he said that he was caddying at Riviera in Los Angeles. And he was caddying for Renee Russo's husband, who was a big-time director, I think, in Hollywood, and may still be, I don't know. And they got down to like the 18th, and he had a putt that was for a lot of money, one way or the other. If he missed it, it was going to cost them a lot. If he made it, it was going to make them a lot.

And he said to Brandon, Brandon, I've got that thing going a foot right to left. And Brandon said, if you hit it a foot right to left, it's going to go off the green. It's a foot left to right. Well, he took Brandon's advice. He made the put.

He got paid, and he went to tip Brandon, and Brandon said, I don't want anything from you. I want you to give me 10 minutes to pitch you on a movie idea that I have. And he took the 10 minutes. He pitched him on two for the money. And this Caruso, Renee Russo's husband, Caruso. Dan Gilroy. I think it's, was it Gilroy?

Is the film director, writer, who's Renee Russo's husband? So that guy, Gilroy is his name. he took the 10 minutes. He made the movie. I don't know what Brandon got out of it. I remember asking him, like, and he got, you know, he got some credits, but really, ultimately, it wasn't a big payday or anything like that. But they made the movie.

So I know that seems like that is the improbable, right? That is the, that's the thing that never happens in L.A. Well, I bet you it would. But if you look at that. how it got divided. So the plot is Brandon Lang's a former college football star who, after sustaining a career ending injury, takes a job handicapping football games. So it's about Brandon Lang, but he doesn't have created by, story by, written by acting credits, and I don't think he's a producer in the movie. So he probably got a check, $10,000, whatever, for the use of his

name because he's not in any of those credits. Yeah, interesting. So that'll happen in L.A. If Tommy wants that, they can do a story on the Tom of Averro's life, but he's just not going to move out of Frederick from it. Exactly. And by the way, he hates golf. So there's that too.

All right. So Howard, of course, has been on the show so many times in recent years, talking about lots of different things. In recent years, clearly, this. Snyder issues and, you know, whether or not the team was going to sell. And now that we know it is going to sell, you know, Howard's a good friend of Mitch Rails. And so we've had Howard on the show talking, you know, about the stuff that he knows about the new ownership group and about the sale. So we've gone through all that.

I will, and we'll do this at the end. I'll ask you for an update and, you know, maybe a few other questions. but you sent me an email the other day after a conversation that I had on the air, and then several other emails as well. And what I didn't realize is that we have a Hollywood connection in Howard Gutman. And I actually want you to start off by telling the story, because I think it's chronological in this way. How you were the counsel to the guy, Steve, whatever is name,

name was, who ran Studio 54 in New York. And in the 70s and in the early 80s, Howard Gutman was a big part of the whole Studio 54, New York, iconic legacy. Okay, we'll take it way back. But if I was counsel to him, I would be older than I even was. I was a 16-year-old senior at the Bronx High School of Science. and my father died in my senior year, and I needed to get a job. And in Whitestone Queens, there were not many jobs after school jobs,

but they were opening the first real restaurant in Whitestone Queens, a steak and salad restaurant called Steakloft. So I took my bicycle to the steak loft, and it was under construction. They were building of the bar, you know, when they were putting up the last, finishing touches on tables and the like. And I walked in and asked, I just got my work papers because I was 16, if I could see the manager I'd like to apply for a dishwashing job

or a busboy or whatever I could be. And out comes this little guy who looked like Barney Rubble with squinty eyes. And I tell him the story that my father's passed away. I have to go school in the Bronx. I don't get back till five, but I could work nights, I could work weekends. And this little boring grubble kind of put his arm around me and said, we'll find you something. And that was Steve Rebell. And from then, as a senior in high school through the entire time, I was at Columbia University,

until I left for Harvard Law School, which is roughly when he left for jail, he and Ian, I became Steve's right-hand man for one reason. In that world, every single person who Steve Rebell interacted with was a relationship where they shared drugs together. Steve would have a pocket of clavoods. Steve would have joints everywhere. Except the one person he could never corrupt was the senior from Bronx High School of Science,

who was accepted to Columbia and was like some brainiac guy. In fact, Steve used to call me Beaumar, the first Texas Instruments calculator was the Beaumar Brain. And my job for those five years, first when he had restaurants, then he opened a discothequeath called Enchanted Garn on Long Island, and he and Ian was his, Steve had gone to Syracuse. He was a hell of a tennis player who played college, tennis. Oh, I didn't know that.

tried to play pros for a year or two, did not succeed. Ian. Ian Schrager. Ian Schrager. Ian was the son of an alleged Jewish mobster. So Ian's dad was Meyer Lansky's driver. They met at Syracuse, and they came down, and I met him at this restaurant, and I was, you know, the kind of guy. I would have a table bus before the people would.

He'll be a type A personality and White Stone Queens. Right. And Steve had the view that he could depend on this guy. And so in those five years, Ian originally before they opened studio, Ian was a lawyer from Syracuse who had a one-man practice for trust in the states and real estate closing for mobsters. And he asked me to be as paralegal, so I would go one day a week from Columbia down to Ian's office to be as paralegal. And then on weekends, I would work shifts at the restaurant in Queens,

and when studio open, then get driven into Manhattan, and work shifts at studio. What would you do at Studio 54? When you work shifts, what kind of shift were you working? So in the restaurant, I waited tables at studio. I would usually do, it's not helpful for my little career. I would do cash register and the like. but only at the time when they were doing it legit. So they ultimately went to jail for in the middle of the night cutting the tape and not reporting all their cash, all their receipts. But I did the, they knew never to put me into there,

but I would do the watch the floor. I was not the guy at the door picking the hot women to come in or not, and you know that the handsome guy is coming or not. but I would come afterwards and help close. And the reason mainly Steve trusted me is by the end of the night, he would be completely quay-wuted out and passed out. Andy Warhol, Bianca Jagger, I saw more naked butts passed out on the floor when I was 18 and 19 at Columbia University.

My job would be to get them into cabs to get things basically in order, to make sure money was locked up, so they could go home and come back to the next day. Wow. All right, so we need some Studio 54 stories. Like you just mentioned, you just dropped a couple of names, but give us a memorable story or two about one of those crazy wild nights. So, you know, it seemed the norm. For me, it seemed like visiting the zoo.

Again, I wasn't touching the Kwaywood. I wasn't a party animal. getting paid by the hour. You were the sober guy. I was a sober guy. I was the nerd. I was the professional nerd. I was at Columbia University, trying to get my way into law school, working hard, and my choices

under my financial aid package was I could work in the school library unless I was able find a job that paid more. And between Stakeloft and Queens, I would be making $25 an hour instead of four, Steve always took care of me because he knew I always took care of them but at some point in that world they're all so beautiful people and also that

if Andy Warhol and Stevie were doing Kwaywoods and passed out of their mind it wasn't to me like oh my God there's Andy Warhol it's like we got to get them in a cab and let's get this going and I'm 18 or 19 I'm a college a sophomore or something, but that was sort of business as usual. If you were raised in the circus, having wild tigers as business as usual, well, that was

the norm back then. And so you'd see these names, but frankly, they were just, you know, for me, my job was do my job well. But you were kind of, you said you were kind of his right-hand man. when you said you took care of the money, when they were all coked out or looted out at the end of a night, would you literally be the guy that would make sure that every single dollar and every single credit card receipt, although more cash back then, obviously in the 70s, got into the safe? So the restaurants and studio had managers.

Their job was to do that, but there was only one person Steve could ultimately trust. that he knew he had his back. So my job was to make sure they did what they were supposed to do, and it never backfired on the feet. And, yeah. And I, look, I admired him. I know, knew all his four flaws. You know, the kids I had grown up with, he introduced him to some more drugs than you've ever seen,

you know, the amphetamines to get up, and then the downers. to come back down, but I knew at heart he was a sweet guy. I got, I got on them, and I said my father died in January, this was March, and I could really use a job, and it wasn't even a question that

Steve Rabel was a sweet guy at heart, but running like you couldn't imagine. And today, I mean, I'm still in touch with Ian today. So these guys were as brilliant as anybody we know. Well, Steve, Steve died, right, at a young age? Steve died of AIDS after

coming out. So together, Steve started a restaurant. Ian started as a lawyer. When Steve was at the restaurant at steak loft, he literally was ordering the meat from his mother's butcher. That's how little he knew about the restaurant industry. But he began to grow it. There was nine steak lofts in the New York area at some point, began to grow it. But he was working so he and Ian could go party in Manhattan. that's what he wanted to do. He and Ian wanted a party in Manhattan, and as I used to say, Ian could get the hottest woman at the night.

They would always be in love with Ian. And with Stevie, it didn't matter if it was the hottest woman or the hottest man. It was always the more, the merrier. And they were the jet-setting kind of there, and finally they said, we could do this better. So they opened in Douglas and Queens, a discotheque at the Douglaston Golf Course, called Enchanted Garden, and build it and they will come.

They knew how to attract by having someone at the door and keeping most of the people like me out. They made it a high demand. They blew off the doors off Douglaston, and then they said, we can do this in Manhattan. They took the Ed Sullivan Theater. And by the first night, the buzz at studio is huge. I had met my current wife and only wife, Michelle, who we've been married 40-something years. We were at Columbia, and Steve said, you guys should come to the opening. And I was a nerd from White Stone Queens and Michelle from Brooklyn.

We had no idea to wear. She wore the dress she wore to her brother's wedding. To the opening of Steel in 504, we were such out of our elements. But Steve would trust me without having to say it. If the next day he would call and say, what happened last night, and I would say, look, we had a little, you had a problem with this. It was like this, but it's all taken care of. That was my job, and I was delighted to do it. By the way, I don't know the answer to this.

I'm just guessing that it was in Midtown on 54th Street somewhere, right? Right. It was on 54th on the west side. On the west side. Wow. I mean, who knew? Who knew? all of the incredible Studio 54 shows and documentaries and things that have been written about that place

and what it was like in the 70s in particular. And so you still talk to Ian Schrager. Yes. So, Ian, so let's look at the genius of them. They revolutionized, it wasn't just a club. They revolutionized discotheque, music, the drug culture, the sex culture. I mean, they revolutionized all of that. They go to jail for classic tax evasion.

By the way, they were represented by Paul Weiss, who's done a lot of the redskin work. I later became a summer, fast forward on the Harvard Law School, and I summer at Paul Weiss, and I meet Art Lyman, who was the lawyer for them, and I start talking about my relation with them, and I said, I never understood how you could get them to plead guilt. guilty because it just didn't seem like the Stevie and Ian I knew. And he said, we had this big meeting when it was time to go to trial or just decide what to do. And Steve stands up and makes an impassioned plea that they can plead guilty because what would all of their friends think about them if they knew they had pled guilty? And then Ian stood up and said, Steve, what are they going to think when they realized we had garbage bags for a cash in the ceiling?

and that was literally how they did it. So they went to jail. They came out of jail. How long did they go to jail for for tax evasion? I'm just curious, do you remember? I think it was probably two years. I wrote to them my first year of Harvard Law School, and I think we could look at when Morgan's opened the hotel.

But when they get, so maybe two or three years, I'd have to look. This is the, you know, 70s and 80s. But when they came out, so they had lost. all their friends. They had been the hottest people in New York, and then they were the most shunned. They bought a fleabag hotel in the 20s in Manhattan, and they did the same thing they did studios. The doormen and the front desk were beautiful-looking, you know, young men and young women and white t-shirts and black jackets, and the rooms were tiny, the tinier, the more you fought to get them,

and they revolutionized the hotel industry by Morgans and then Paramount and Royalton. Shriggered. Shrager did. Well, no, Stevie and Ian. And then Stevie died of AIDS. Okay. And that left Ian there, and Ian carried it for years. And look, years later, when I was at Williams and Connolly, I was going up to New York. And I reached out to Ian and to say, let's have a couple coffee after these years.

I wasn't looking for anything. The secretary came back and said, Mr. Shredger's going to be out of town, but he asked you get in touch with him next time you're there. And when I checked in, Michelle and I had booked a little room, they had put us on the top floor that was the penthouse. They had two rooms of massive, with Tina Turner in one room and Michelle and I and the other.

And so I would never bother, you know, to think that they, I was looking for a favor, but when I was ambassador, Ian came and visited with us and stay in touch now. And then he and a local hero, one of my dear friends here who we've lost, Arnie Sorensen, Arnie was a great Washingtonian who became the CEO of Marriott and his was a great Washington who passed away. Somehow, Arnie and Ian, this is an improbable. Arnie and I knew each other from decades of practicing law before Arnie went to Marriott. And Arnie, you know, is Mormon and straight his

lace. Somehow he and Ian hooked up, and they collaborated to form Marriott's boutique wing. And they were best of friends, and so I saw Ian in connection with Arnie's death. And every, I get

Christmas card every year, and he's still doing well. All those years later, but he revolutionized music and clubbing and drugs, and that life in the 70s, and then the hotel industry in the 80s. Well, yeah, because in South Beach, the Clevelanders is his, right? In South Beach, it was originally the Delano.

Oh, the Delano. That's right. The Delano is Shregers. Right. Okay. Yep. And again, it was, you know, the first one that had under the water you could hear the music and chess pieces that were as high as people. And everybody there was beautiful.

The one constant throughout is I've been the ugliest person in their world for 60 years now, so 50 years now. So, because we only knew the beautiful people. That's pretty fascinating. By the way, so when were you at Harvard Law? Was that in the 80s? 77 to 1980. So the years you were at Studio 54 when you were at Columbia were the early to mid-70s. When did Studio 54 open up?

So my senior year of high school was 73, and then Columbia, 73 to 77, and then Harvard Law School of the 80. So it would have been in that 74, 75 period. For when we went down, studio lasted very short. If you go back and look, I did this one, I was shocked. It dominated world headlines, but it was probably. open 18 months because they got raided. If we go back and check it on Wiki, you will see it shockingly. You thought it was a decade.

It was shockingly short. It was revolutionized the world, like headlines every day as to who. You know, the tabloids in the UK. Well, it had to be more than 18 months. Well, let's go look. I'll take a look while we're on the phone. It's not long. Yeah, I mean, I...

All right. I'm pulling it up right now. They signed the lease in January of 1977. All right. So that's when you're at Columbia getting ready to go to Harvard Law. In January of 77, I was class of 77. So I graduated Columbia in June of 77. And so I helped with the opening.

December 78, it got rated. In December. So it was basically two years. Yeah, wow. There you go. God, I thought it was, I thought it was like something that rolled right into the early 80s. That's what I told you. You'd be shocked to see how short it was open. And so, again, they went to prison in Alabama and I wrote them from Harvard Law School. See if I can help them in any way. Well, I mean, it goes to show you that, you know, it pays the price to be to be the nerd in the group. you know, passing on lines of Coke and quailudes and mushrooms. So let me fast forward. Let me fast forward. I'll give you this story.

I've got called by Bill Websteros, the director of the FBI in 85, asking me to become his special assistant for counterintelligence and counterterrorism. And I have to get vetted. And you fill out all the FBI forms. And, you know, me, I'm straight now. I fill out all the FBI forms. and I get a visit from two FBI agents, totally concerned at my law firm. And they said, listen, it is not disqualifying for the FBI now that you've used marijuana.

But it is disqualifying to lie on these forms. And obviously, Director Webster asked you to become a special assistant. He wants you. We cannot recommend that you don't pass the security exam. But you've checked on this that you've never smoked dope. And you went to Columbia in the end of the 70s, so we'd like you just to change the check and we'll forget about it. And I explained how when the rest of the world got their panache from getting high,

I got my panache from staying straight. And they finally accepted that I got through Columbia in New York and working at Studio 54. Right. I thought that was going to be the best. bigger sort of red flag. Well, yeah, they saw my back up without ever talking. And even like, unlike Bill Clinton, it's not that I never inhaled.

I never smoked because that's what made me trusted by them. That's who I was. By the way, it says here, and I just pulled this up, that Schrager and Steve Rebell hired Roy Cohn to defend them. So, right. So, right, think about, Roy Cone was their front man. And he, you know, he decried the subpoenas and the like. And Roy Cohen was always at studio, but how that guy kept his barriced, I have no idea. He did more drugs and Stevie.

And so he was there big, you know, but when you then get the Southern District in New York, U.S. Attorney's Office in, you're not going to trial with Roy Cohen. And Art Lyman and Paul Weiss then came in and actually did the plea and we're taking the case to trial. Yeah, because Roy Cohn was McCarthy's lawyer. Right. He was, you know, he wore flamboy in hats and, you know, he was all pomp. But again, Roy Cone's a great guy to have when you want the profile of Studio 54. But if you're going to have someone negotiate with the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, you're going to want Art Lyman and pull wife in there.

So I'm glad I asked you to start with that. I hope everybody enjoyed that. I mean, Howard has been close to so many incredible situations in this last half century. It's amazing. And there are probably plenty of situations that you can't tell us a lot about, given your high-profile legal career as well. But the reason I reached out to Howard to come on today was because he's watching the show Silo that I have recommended. And he wanted to share with me that Tim Robbins, who's in Silo, is actually a friend of his, which led to a conversation about Howard's Hollywood career, his acting career, his relationships with George Clooney and William Hurt and Tim Robbins.

and some of the biggest directors in Hollywood. And so since this Studio 54 conversation went a little bit longer than I thought, I'm going to save the Hollywood conversation for Thursday's show. Tommy's going to be on the show tomorrow. We got Tommy. We secured Tommy the meeting with Howard. But we will talk Howard's Hollywood career on Thursday. So I am going away tomorrow night.

I'm going to be away for a few days, but you'll hear an incredible story of character acting and more from Howard Gutman, who has been involved in his life in a lot of different things. Why not try it? If that guy can do it, I can do it, is Howard's motto. Anyway, we'll save that for Thursday. We will do a little bit of football with Howard and ownership group conversation when we come back. And we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

This final segment of the show today is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. Just use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., to claim your bonus. at mybooky.com. Howard is with us. July 20th appears to be the date of the vote. What happens after that?

And when does the new owner, Josh Harris and all of his limited partners take over? So again, I wouldn't reveal any inside information, but these are all things I've heard reported by others. And the vote will be July 20th. And you still have to have a closing. That's just they are approved to be. the owners by the league.

But they have a closing with Dan that they would have to do. I promise you they will try to do that as quickly as possible. But it's like your house closing. You might set it for the next day after confirmation of, you know, all the approvals have come in. It may be something gets held up. But either the next day, which is a Friday or the following Monday or early the next week, I suspect they will close and be the official owners.

We have a fairly good situation because you have a track record for Josh Harris and the like. When you've seen in others, he doesn't necessarily make any changes particularly, but he comes with an infrastructure. So the Harris-Bitzer group is a full sports franchise running group with the Devils and the 76ers and Crystal Palace and Joe Gibbs Racing. And so they've got people, nobody on the ground in Washington, the head of their group, splits its time between Philadelphia and New Jersey right now. But it's not like there is just a guy, some rich guy, who now will head down to Washington

and try to figure out what to do. They've got a professional organization that deals with sponsors and sports across the board, that deals with fan experience, that deals with. So they will have to adjust eventually to Washington. I hope we will all give them a year hall pass to figure it out. It will obviously be training camp will be going over there. So whether they need another mill linebacker is not something they were ever going to decide anyway, but who's a new GM, if it would be a new GM or not,

it's not something you're going to do quickly. They can right now not do anything until the vote is done. You can't do anything because that would be too. to presume the vote is positive, but they're all eager. I suspect a bunch will be working on improving the fan experience for the short-term things you can do, and then, you know, analyzing the long-term. So we know that Dan lost a beer sponsor. They'll certainly have some sort of beer sponsor for this year,

but would they then do the long-term beer sponsor? That would probably take a time, something like that. So I think we'll have professional infrastructure in place, but still day-to-day should probably be what's there. And eventually, you know, decisions will occur over time. But we know that they've got a terrific professional group in place. What did you think of the investment into Joe Gibbs Racing? I suspect Josh Harris is a pretty good private equity guy at Apollo, the number one private equity group. So I suspect it made a lot of sense.

But take a look at now. So last week, the Saudis sold the Bahrain's. They're part of their interest in F1 racing, largely because F1 is becoming huge in America. I went to the F1 race in Miami. There was endless people. Racing is just, if you can get interest in those properties, their value is going up. I haven't seen anybody lose any money on sports franchises once you get past the level of maybe we'll cross. And certainly not with racing.

So it's, you know, I don't know if Josh Harris particularly interested in racing or Joe Gibbs, but I'm sure for the Harris puts a group, it's a terrific investment. What do you think the relationship between Harrison Gibbs is beyond that? Because obviously that's great. He's made a good investment into a sport that continues to appreciate in value. But I think a lot of people thought, okay, well, Joe Gibbs is going to be involved somehow in the Josh Harris-owned Washington football franchise. So from all reports, he's not an owner.

He's not a limited partner, yeah. He's not a limited partner. And I think it's not like Joe Gibbs would take it upon him. So I don't think to say, you know, you need someone to cover the slot receiver better. And I don't think Josh Harris is the person who would hear that anyway. They're going to have, whether it's the current team because we finish 12 and 5, or whether it's a different team, because we don't, they're going to have, they have in every place they've done it,

done the job right to bring in, you know, talented, substantive people for the substance and talented business people for the business. But the one thing we know they do have is an architecture for the business side. They have an infrastructure for the business side. Ultimately, they have people on the grounds for the devils for Crystal Palace, for the 76ers, but they answer up to business owners, and that's an umbrella above all of them.

All right, great job. This was so interesting. Not this last part necessarily, but the part before it. So much that we didn't really know about Howard Gutman. And I'm sure we'll learn something that he will just randomly mention in a conversation in the weeks ahead. And we'll do a whole show on that one as well. Thanks for your time, as always. My pleasure, Kevin.

Have a great day. The Howard Gutman, everybody, on Twitter. the second half of my conversation with Howard, where he gets into his acting career, his Hollywood relationships you'll hear on Thursday. We are done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow with Tommy.