The Kevin Sheehan Show - Dan Quinn Hired

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Kevin and Thom today on the Washington Commanders hiring Dan Quinn to be their new head coach. Plenty on the process, the man, and what's next. Also, it turn out that Washington did have interest in Bill Belichick. Thom's karaoke debut as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show is Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here and Washington has their new head coach. Dan Quinn hired to be their new head coach. As of the recording of this podcast, I don't see Tommy anywhere out there news on the length of the deal or the contract value.

I'm sure somebody will have the number of years. I had Adam Schaefter on the show, on the radio show a little while ago, and I didn't ask him that. I should have. But he has not tweeted that out, so the answer probably would have been that he did not know that. But, yeah, we finally got here, Washington, the last of the teams with head coaching vacancies to hire their head coach. And it is Dan Quinn. So let's just start there with our reactions. Go ahead.

you go first. Look, I don't have some kind of built-in animosity towards hiring a defensive coach with coaching experience. The hated word retread like people like to use. Okay, I don't have, that doesn't bother me

in the least. Dan Quinn, from all counts, fits the mold of what they want as a leader. Okay? I mean, both Harris and Peters made that clear when they spoke to reporters that that was a valuable asset for them, you know, in picking a coach.

So that said, they fumbled this process so poorly. Oh, God. I mean, they should have been the first team to hire their first choice. Instead, they were the last team in the room to hire a guy. And they should have been first.

Why? People knew weeks ago. People knew if Josh Harris, didn't know by October that he was going to fire Ron Rivera, then that's a disappointment as an owner. I mean, now, maybe they should have fired Rivera in December since it took them this long to get the process going. They should have been number one and they were last.

Why? Why should they have been number one? But why should they have been number one? I don't understand the value of being number one. They knew their coach was going to be fired. gone. So they should have just hired Dan Quinn like at the end of the, well, he was coaching. You know, the Cowboys were in the postseason. They didn't get eliminated until two and a half weeks ago. We're a month away out from the land of the season, Kevin. Who should they have been,

who should they have hired first before anybody else hired a coach? Who? Who was available? If Dan Quinn was their coach, that's the guy they should have hired. Okay, well, that would have been two and a half weeks ago, I guess that would have probably been, would that have been the first hire? I don't know if it would have been the first. I just don't see the value in being the first. I don't know why that's important to you. It speaks to this, this convoluted process that they came up with. What convoluted process? Why was it convoluted? Why? Explain. Search thing was a joke. They lost their number one choice, or at least their perceived number one choice. The other guy who they might have hired, you know, got hired in Seattle before they

even got a chance to. They got caught short in this thing. And they're lucky they got Dan Quinn. You still haven't explained to me why there would have been huge value in being first, but I'll move on from that. What I know and what I reported here a week and a half ago is that he was their plan B if Ben Johnson fell through. So he was near the top of the list. And I think what we've learned here in the last couple of days is maybe the perception of Ben Johnson being the frontrunner was not necessarily matching up with reality. And ultimately, they probably dodged a bullet with a guy that was kind of too chicken to be a head coach. Quinn was near the top of the list. Their team got eliminated two and a half weeks ago, so they couldn't hire him

before January 15th or 16th or whatever. And I think they wanted to hire the general manager first, which was their first hire, and they got the top dog on the market. People seem to think that they have botched this coaching process. Not everybody. You seem to think they've botched it. I would definitely have more of a feeling of this didn't go very well if they also didn't get any of their top candidates on the GM search. But they did.

They got their number one guy there. And yeah, it's possible that they didn't get their number one guy, but I wouldn't call that a botch, not getting your number one guy. It's possible that maybe even they didn't get their number one or number two guys. I still wouldn't refer to that as a botch. Remember, Tommy, this is still a shit stadium, shit facilities, bad roster with holes all over it. And for a lot of coaches that are young and up-and-comers, they don't remember Washington as any sort of marquee franchise. Maybe the opening wasn't the best opening. Maybe it was the third or fourth best opening, as it turns out. I don't think that this, I just don't think this was botched at all.

I think if you want to say they didn't get their number one guy, well, prove it to me that they didn't get their number one guy. I'm not suggesting that you're wrong because I do think. I could say that to you about every single thing that you talk about on here. Don't start with this proven stuff. Nobody knows anything for sure. Okay, good. I'm glad you admitted that. So you just admitted that you're not sure that they blew it on their number one guy. I'm not saying that there isn't a chance that they didn't blow it on their number one guy. But if their number one guy was Ben Johnson and that's what they were waiting for, at this point based on, you know, what we kind of know to a certain degree, Schaefter alluded to it with me on radio, they dodged a bullet by not

getting their number one guy. He doesn't feel he's ready to get a head coach. Why? Based on what they knew last year, based on the fact that one of their quote, highly value consultants is the brother of the Detroit CEO, Chris Spielman, they should have known how screwed up Ben Johnson was. Well, screwed up is not necessarily the way I would describe it either. I do think he's been a bit preoccupied over the last month. And the way, he explained it to his elite wide receiver and the way I guess he's also explained it now a couple times to other people is that, you know, he, the season didn't end until late Sunday night and that's when it became, you know, a focus for him on these different opportunities that existed.

And Adam sort of suggested that it wasn't Seattle or it wasn't Washington. It was just not what he wanted to be right now, a head coach. I guess you're right, especially the Spielman connection, maybe somebody should have said to Rick and the search committee, this guy may not want to be a head coach. He's kind of waffling, you know. We don't, I don't, and he's not the leader that you want maybe. He's got the ammo for that last year.

Yeah, and by the way, he went through this last year with the guy. And by the way, it's very possible that he wasn't their number one because of that. But they wanted to sit down with him, and maybe they wanted to sit down with Mike McDonald's, as well. And maybe McDonald was their number one, and McDonald looked at Seattle's roster and said

that's a much better defensive roster and it's young and preferred that over Washington. I don't know. I just know this for sure. This is what I do know for sure. Dan Quinn was not like way down the list, and as they

botched it and they stumbled all over themselves for the last couple of weeks, somebody said, hey, this dude Dan Quinn's coached before, let's get him, he's still out there, he's a name. It's not the way it went. Dan Quinn was always a possibility right from the beginning.

I was told that and I shared that with you and everybody else here a week and a half ago. For whatever reason, nobody remembers it. I guess you have to tweet it out for it to be remembered. But this was always a possibility. Shepter confirmed that with me this morning,

saying he was a possibility from the jump and there was always a preference, and he did say this, first time GM, not a first time head coach to go with the first time GM. And he said they were blown away throughout the process with the number of recommendations that came in for Dan Quinn. Quinn was not a botched result, in my opinion, at all. But if you want to describe it that way, describe it that way, that's fine. What do we think of the hire now that it's done?

This is what's, wait a minute, one last thing. at the introductory press conference for Dan Quinn, there will be questions about not being the first choice. Okay. And that's not what you, that's that, I tell you why, to use the Bruce Allen term, that's not winning off the field. That's losing the press conference right there, where you're your first hire as the coach for this team,

and there's already questions whether he was the guy you really wanted in the first place. That'll be out there. And so what do you think the answer will be? Well, sure, they'll come up with some kind of. I mean, Dan Quinn, he's a smart guy. He'll come up with some kind of very, you know, positive answer. Josh Harris will blow it off, say, no, Dan Quinn was always our number one choice, you know, some kind of BS like that.

But, I mean, you know, the perception is different. If I told you three weeks ago, they're going to get the number one in the hottest GM candidate in a few years in Adam Peters, and they're going to get their second or third choice as a head coach. Is that a winning start for this Josh Harris ownership in 2024, first year of having control over the football operation? Half a loaf, buddy. You think it's a half a loaf? Why do you think that they should have gotten their first choice?

Well, I mean, the process was If Dan Quinn wasn't their first choice And they weren't able to get their first choice Then this so-called search committee was a failure A search committee not landing the top choice makes it a failure? Yes Okay But why do you think that they should

You bring into the consultant to make a big deal out of it If you want to describe it as a failure why do you think, okay, as a critical thinking columnist and reporter, why do you think they couldn't get their first choice? If that's indeed what happened. I tell you what, here's what I think happened. They magnified the importance of their selection process more than the selection itself. In that one press conference when they talked about the search committee.

Yes. Haven't heard anything about the search committee basically since. So it certainly was magnified in your mind as the sole focus. Look at how many great people we have looking for our next GM and our next. By the way, the search committee, that other half of the loaf was pretty damn tasty. It was fresh as hell to get Adam Peters. Yes, it was. If I were coming in and being the auditor of the search committee's job,

I would say got the top GM candidate. That was the most important hire. And you got your second or third choice on the head coach. Not bad. Certainly not botched. I would never. How could you describe it that way? Okay.

It looks like they got the last guy in the room. But that's not true. How do you know? I told you that I knew this a week and a half ago. I know that. But what you're told and what reality is, there's two different things. Fair enough. Adam Schaefter said he was near the top of the list right from the jump.

Is that better? Who's going to say? No, this is – Adam Schaefter is never going to say this was not anyone. To be honest with you, that's not even important. The important thing is, again, what makes you think that the worst stadium in the league, less than ideal facilities out in Ashburn, a roster that's got holes all over the place, you know, an organization that still for younger people anyway, probably is viewed as, you know,

kind of not that great, not that storied? what makes you think that they should have gotten their first choice? Why? Because this was sold on the connections. This was sold on the connections of the search committee. That's how they got Adam Peters. Bob Myers-Steleman thing. That's how they got.

Is that why? I think so. They didn't get Adam Peters without Bob Myers. I don't know. I think Bob Myers was probably helpful in landing Adam Peters. Yes. He was able to make a local phone call. Yeah, well, he knows Adam Peters.

So he certainly had his number handy. And so they know each other. So, yeah, it's very possible that Bob Myers was helpful. It's also possible, as you think you're 100% right about, but I'm not going to dispute it, that it's possible that Josh Harris could have landed Adam Peters without Bob Myers. That's true, too. but he went for, hey, let me help have somebody who I know, and I'm friendly with,

who's also friendly with a guy that we may want to hire as a GM, let me make him part of the search committee. It can't hurt. And maybe it didn't hurt. Okay. Let's get to Dan Quinn. Yeah. On that press conference, by the way, the question shouldn't be,

you're suggesting that somebody asked Dan Quinn. Quinn, how does it feel to have been the organizations not top choice? Or would you have that question for Peters? There will be questions either to Peters or if Josh Harris is up there to Harris about the process and the failure of it. Yeah. Well, my recommendation to them would be to answer the question saying, who said he wasn't our top choice? Who do you think our top choice was? There you go.

I mean, what makes you believe that he wasn't our top choice? They didn't offer a contract to anybody that we know of. Nobody's reported that yet. No, nobody had. So if somebody actually reports that Washington offered Ben Johnson or Mike McDonald or Anthony Weaver or, you know, Aaron Glenn or anybody else, a contract, then we'll know for sure Dan Quinn wasn't the first choice. We will know that for sure. Okay. So they were flying to Detroit just for airline miles is for their second interview.

Look, I'm not saying that he was their first choice. I'm just saying, what's the point? Why would anybody think they would get their first choice? It's not, there were more attractive openings. I know we all talked ourselves into Washington being this incredible job opening, But around the league, when they ranked the job openings, Washington was typically third, fourth, or fifth. They weren't number one. The chargers were always number one in terms of the number one opportunity.

A lot of people like the Atlanta opportunity a lot more than Washington's. I just don't know why the expectation should have been, well, they should land their top choice. I mean, sometimes you don't get your top choice. I mean, that's why you have all these candidates that you interview. If they were just going to get their top choice, why even interview anybody else? All right. On Dan Quinn, I don't know. My mode right now, I hope you can appreciate this because not everybody can, but I don't really care.

Is benefit of the doubt, as I said on the podcast yesterday, and I may have said to you the other day or last week, for 20 years we haven't been able to give this organization the benefit of the doubt because they were wrong all the time. And so there was never a reason. Only a moron would have given the organization the benefit of the doubt. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt because first of all, they got the number one general manager on the market. And 16 days ago, God arrived from San Francisco to make the decisions on the football operation here in Washington. And then 16 days later, everybody's talking about him botching it. So that's curious to me, but I'm fine with sitting back and watching and letting these guys

prove that they can either do it or can't do it. I have no reason to think that Dan Quinn is a great hire. I have no reason to think that Dan Quinn is a horrible hire. I do know this about Dan Quinn. He has really coached up some really good defenses in the NFL. In Seattle, in Atlanta briefly, certainly in Dallas, where the last three years, they've been top five. They've been fourth, fourth, and fifth in DVOA. They have led the league two of his three years in Dallas in takeaways.

They were 13th this year. They were number one in 2021 and 2022 in takeaways. He's always been able to coach up a turnover creating machine wherever he's been. I know that he has been incredibly well respected and well liked by coaches and players. I think I just saw something from Micah Parsons saying something about Dan Quinn. I had Mickey Spagnola, who's been with the Cowboys.com, covered the Cowboys for 40 years or whatever. he said that Parsons and others are going to miss him terribly, that he was an incredible voice and leader in that locker room.

We knew from day one of the Adam Peters introductory that they were looking for a leader. I do not see this as Ron Rivera number two. I do see the similarities that people see. Record, defensive guys, well-liked, well-respected, coach teams to Super Bowls and lost. but there's a massive difference between Rivera and the Quinn's situation. Rivera came to work for Dan Snyder, and he came to work as essentially a CEO coach GM.

He didn't come here to be the head coach. He came here to be the head coach, the GM, and the head of the football operation. Dan Quinn is coming here to coach the team for what we hope is a much more functional organization than the one Rivera entered, and he's going to be reporting to a general manager. They'll work in collaboration with one another. We'll hear about aligned vision and collaboration and all of that. But there is a hierarchy here, and Josh Harris spelled it out. It's owner, it's general manager, and then it's going to be the head coach. And so, yeah, I've always like Dan Quinn's defenses. The last impression was scary awful.

against Green Bay. There is no doubt about that. And I would have preferred an offensive guy. I said that all along. I would have preferred in this day and age, an offensive guy, especially given that we're going to draft a quarterback at number two overall. But I don't hate it. I am in benefit of the doubt mode. He's been successful. The structure around him hopefully is a lot healthier. and what really will be crucial for whether or not Dan Quinn and Adam Peters succeed together here over the next few years is A, who they draft at number two. Do they get it right? That's probably the most important thing left. And then B, he really has to hire an excellent offensive coordinator because one of the things that happened in Atlanta is once Kyle was gone and Steve Sarkesian was gone, he didn't have nearly the same level. of success. So OC staff, which by the way, I would imagine just because he's been in the league for 25

years, perhaps he's better equipped to put a staff together than maybe a first-time head coach. But that OC hire is going to be huge. And then look, the bottom line is, and we've known this for a while, the quarterback that they take at number two will probably have more of an impact, or certainly as much as the general manager, on the franchise's success or lack thereof moving forward. What do you think of Dan Quinn, the hire, not the process? I know people who worked with Dan Quinn at Atlanta, and they loved him. They rave about him.

Tremendous respect, tremendous devotion from people who have worked with him. That said, these people also told me he was emotional. emotionally crushed by what happened in the Super Bowl. That, you know, blowing that 25-point lead. Yep. And it took him a while to get, he may not have gotten over it until he got fired and hired again in Dallas as a defensive coordinator. It was that devastating.

Well, they did go to the playoffs the next year, and they nearly got back to the NFC championship game. Remember, that was the year that Philadelphia, won the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. And they lost a divisional round game after beating the Rams on the road in the Coliseum. That was Sean McVeigh's first playoff team. They crushed the Rams. They went to Philadelphia.

And Julio Jones had a touchdown pass with like under a minute to go in his hands in the end zone to beat the Eagles, which would have meant that the Eagles would not have gone on to win their first and only Super Bowl. and they would have been back in the NFC championship games. So the next year they were a pretty good team, is my point. Okay. Okay. But people who I know who work with him to sing his praises, if they wanted a leader, they got a leader.

They wanted a leader. They told us they wanted a leader. Should we not have believed them when they said that? No. Yeah. No. And I think it's become clear, has it not, or certainly is clear?

as it could be without knowing for sure that Ben Johnson doesn't appear to be that kind of a leader anyway and maybe wasn't ready to be a leader? I would certainly agree with that. Okay.

Well, what else? Again, intelligence that should have been in their hands before they started the process. Well, maybe it was. Maybe it was... So what were they doing? Getting airline mobs? What was point. Well, you know, what they do is going to do? Convince him that he really wanted to be a head coach.

I mean, all they had to do was pick up the phone and call Mike Shannon, and he would have told him. That was the only call Josh Harris needed to make. Um, no. You know, the ironic thing, the ironic thing, both of these hires, you could have done just that. Yeah, but let me just point out that one of the things we have heard going back to when it was possible that Josh Harris was going to be the new owner. Mitchell Rails was going to be involved. What did we hear about their, you know, process of making decisions? Very deliberative, very meticulous, very calculated, very thoughtful. You know, they cross every tea. They dot every odd. And maybe, you know, maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea that you end up with search committees and congressional committees and hearings and, you know, consensus building.

Look, I was an entrepreneur in four different startups over a 16 year period. And it was much more decision by impulse a lot of the time, decision by gut, without worrying about, you know, what 15 different people. people said. But that also led to a lot of bad decisions over the years, too. I learned from it. These guys are proven, you know, businessmen and billionaires and multiple businesses. And we were told from the beginning they were more, you know, kind of consensus, cautious, very conscious decision makers, that they were not impulsive. They weren't willy-nilly. So that's what we got. I guess that's what we got.

Let me give them credit for having good penmanship, then. Well, it's not penmanship, Tommy. It's not just about good handwriting. It's that that's how some people operate. Some people prefer to be super, super thorough. And by the way, I've been around people who, Wait and wait and wait and wait. And they feel waiting and waiting and waiting actually is a benefit because so many things reveal themselves.

And through interviews of more people that you don't think you're going to hire and you've got your eyes and, you know, fixed on one person, you end up learning so much more. And it introduces you to other people. And there are people like that that prefer that process. You is a lone ranger your whole life. There's different arenas where you operate like that. And in a public arena where you have five or six other people vying for the same people, you know, being deliberate is not a luxury you can afford. You know, that's one of the best points you've made today is that if true that Dan

Quinn, and I believe it is true, was really a guy that blew him away, that had people basically calling in from all over saying, this is your guy. If they really felt strongly about Dan Quinn, which I was told that they did, but they wanted to go through the process of checking out offensive guys like Sloick and Ben Johnson, and they wanted to see what Mike McDonald was about. and Anthony Weaver, et cetera, et cetera, then they risked potentially losing Dan Quinn. Now, the only other team, Quinn was, you know, right from the jump, a name that everybody mentioned, right, you know, as a potential head coach.

But really, ultimately, it was Seattle that seemed to be the most interested in Quinn other than maybe Washington. So maybe they just had a good feel of what the, Dan Quinn Market was, and they felt safe and waiting. I don't know. But if they had lost Quinn and they were introducing Anthony Weaver next week, early next week, and they were hand-wringing over losing Quinn, that would have been unfortunate. But then again, he was choice number 18, according to a lot of people.

so he was always going to be there. All this may work out. I have no reason to think that Dan Quinn is not going to be a successful coach. Right. Okay. I have no reason to believe that there's any guarantee that he is going to have success or not have success. By the way, we should have even more, there should be even more mystery around Adam Peters. He's never done what he's doing right now before.

But because he was the best-looking blonde at the ball, and Washington got him, and he chose Washington, that was considered to be an absolute coup in getting him. And so I, yeah. All right. We got other things we can get to. But OC, staff, Let's talk about some of the potential staff members.

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Learn more at DoSouthDC.com. And if you're just ever in that part of town, You live down there. You're down there for a game, a baseball game when baseball starts. DoSouth is a great place. Go grab a beer, grab dinner, grab lunch. You can find out all you need to know at do south.com. So Tommy just made me aware of something that I was not aware of. Diana Rusini reported that Washington, here it is, during the hiring process in Washington, Diana Rusini, our old friend from Channel 4, who's with the athletic now, during the hiring process in Washington,

Bill Belichick was considered for the job per sources. The commander spoke with him, and he had support from some decision makers. In the end, Dan Quinn is their choice. There was that first report, remember, from that guy. Everybody seemed to dismiss it. It was Jordan Schultz or whatever, I forget, with whom he. works. But there was that report that Washington had reached out to, no, no, that was Harbaugh's agent, my fault. That was Harbaugh's agent. Nobody really ever suggested that they had any interest in

Belichick. Well, and here's the thing, whenever any interest popped up suggested by reporters, when people would contact the group supposedly through their sources, they were always told, oh, there's nothing to them. Oh, there's nothing to it. Yeah. It's It's not true. Not true. It's all you heard, time and time again. That's accurate when it came to Belichick. I was thinking more about Harbaugh there for a second. Yes. Belichick. If you believe ESPN and Diane Rusini, who I tend to believe, it is true. And not only is it true, she doesn't work for ESPN. She said he had some support among decision makers. That's a bit of an

alarming of little nugget there that there were some people who wanted to hire. Why is that alarming? Well, because that, I mean, who would those decision makers be? Would that be the general manager? Or would that be the owner or one of the owners? I don't know, but why would it be, why would it be alarming if some people wanted Bill Belichick and others didn't? It would be alarming to me if you had the chance to hire Bill Belichick, if people who owned the team wanted to hire Bill Belichick, and they passed on it. Maybe Belichick passed on. They're 20-something owners.

Okay, decision-makers, she said. First of all, by the way, Diana works. I don't think the guy on the end of the bench is a decision-maker. Diana works for the athletic now. She doesn't work for ESPN anymore. The athletic, I'm sorry. That's all right. We love Diana.

She does a great job. So, A, you're correct. Anytime Belichick came up, it was immediately dismissed as they have no interest. in Belichick. And I'm talking more about the local reporting on it. I don't know how often I heard that nationally. Now, if she's correct that he was considered for the job, and as you said, and you were alarmed by, that there were supporters among the decision makers, then Bill Belichick was considered. You know, seriously, if there were decision makers that actually said, if Magic Johnson, as part of the search committee, said, we got to talk to Bill Belichick.

I don't know if you guys know this. He's won seven Super Bowls, and he's one of the greatest coaches of all time. That said, I think it would be, it would have been malpractice not to consider Belichick, at least consider him. I felt that way right from the jump. I didn't understand all of the pushback to the idea of Bill Belichick, or at least considering him. Now, I don't have a problem with people that say, I don't want a coach at 73 years old, or I don't want a coach who, you know, right now wants total control because my preference would be the GM head coach structure. So that's a fair, reasonable pushback to Belichick. But the idea that

some had that, well, he's just not any good without Brady. I mean, that part to me was, bit of a reach. But yeah, I mean, look, if they didn't have the answer in October, as you suggest, Josh Harris should have had, then yeah, they should have, when they found out he wasn't going to coach in New England anymore, they should have, you know, to disgust him in that large search committee. I mean, I can't, it's just like the name thing, you know, back in July when I had people saying a lot of local people saying they're not even talking about it. I'm like, you must be an idiot to think that they're not talking about it. Of course they're talking about it. Of course it's been discussed. It's one of the biggest topics as it relates to this franchise.

And by the way, a lot of the 38 owners or whatever the number is, 23 or whatever it is, are from here. Of course it is. It doesn't mean that they were going to do anything. about it right then and there. It doesn't mean that you can't have other higher priorities, but there were people that said it hasn't even been discussed. Well, that's ridiculous to suggest to even think that way.

You just bought the Washington commanders. You don't think that there's going to be a conversation among owners about the name. You don't think that somebody wouldn't have brought up Bill Belichick, like, hey, he's available. Did you guys notice

that he's available? Should we should we at least bring him in and talk to him or talk to his agent to see if he'd be interested? Yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense. I think they should have been interested in Harbaugh. I think they should have been interested in Brable. Harbaugh was my first choice. I know. If I was picking, Harbaugh would have been my first choice to run the whole thing as far as I'm concerned.

But, yeah, I mean, you have to. you can't dismiss a guy like Belichick. I mean, the idea, for a reason you said, you may not like the idea of having your organization all consumed by Bill Belichick,

which probably would happen. And I understand that. I get that as well. The Vrabel thing, who sent this to me? I think Kevin sent it to me, Kevin and Arlington, sent me this story that the Athletic wrote like two weeks ago on the on the Vrable ran Carthon Amy Strunk the owner situation there it Vrable apparently it wasn't that he didn't get along with ran Carthon

but he initially told the owner he didn't think Carthon was ready to be a GM he thought he he was ready to be an assistant GM and then he wanted more control and she didn't want it And it fell apart. And then Link ran Carthon to Adam Peters. They were together in San Francisco. And that may be a reason they didn't bring in Vrable. Although, just, you know, a caller brought this up. It may have been Pauley, who said,

I don't want my owner and my new GM to not bring in somebody because it didn't work out for him with somebody that I worked with for a few years somewhere else when it's Mike Vrabley. table. Like, I should still give him a shot. I wrote my column, which you haven't read yet, my column ends with... You lectured me before the show. I've been a little bit busy today. I'm going to get to your column. I love... You want me to read it right now? Because I could read it right here in the air, probably.

Yeah, you could if you wanted to. But listen, let me just say at the end of the column, I point out that, you know, there have been no indications that they had any interest in Mike Frable. And I say, somebody should form a committee to explain that one. Jesus, God. You in the committees. You know, you know what's so funny about you and the committee conversation? There have been times in my life in various situations where I'm like, no, we don't need a committee and no, we don't need to meet half day off site. This is a 60-minute tops meeting right here in our own conference room with four of us, not 12 of us. And that was always my, the path I would take in decision making. So now you're more mature. No, I understand where

you're coming from. I just understand that there are many ways to do these things. And by the way, being more, you know, flying by the seat of my pants didn't always work out the way I I wanted it to work out. But anyway, the staff's going to be important. Like the offensive coordinator, so let's look at this. First of all, he's most recently been in Dallas, where Brian Schottenheimer is the offensive coordinator without play-calling responsibilities.

Because Mike McCarthy took that over when Kellyn Moore went to Philadelphia. So I don't think our fan base would love the combination of Dan Quinn and Brian Schottenheimer. I don't think it'll be Brian Schottenheimer. I'm just trying to put together, like, you know, the connected dots thing that you do. Yeah. Nikki Havala. Javala.

Yeah. Javala. Okay. She tweeted out one possible name is Clint Kubiak, who is the passing game coordinator for the 49ers. Right. And Brian Greasy is on that staff, too, is the coordinator. quarterback's coach, and he had, you know, been given a lot of the credit for drafting Brock Purdy and developing Brock Purdy, and that's another name that others have talked about. You know,

you have so far, and one of the, by the way, arguments you could make for waiting this long to hire a guy that maybe you really liked is that you may have missed out on an O.C. that you liked. Callen Moore went to Philadelphia. Arthur Smith went to Pittsburgh. Shane Waldron went to Chicago. Zach Robinson, you know, from L.A., went to Atlanta with, you know, Rahim Morris after those hires were made. I, I, we've thrown a lot of names out here over the last two or three shows, but I think you really do look at a place like San Francisco. And I'm sure that Dan Quinn had ideas, and I'm sure one of the reasons that they hired Dan Quinn is this aligned vision. we want to have an aligned vision, GM and head coach.

I'm going to be looking for a leader, but I'm going to look for somebody that shares. So these conversations have taken place, and maybe he's just waiting for the Super Bowl and Brian Greasier, Clint Kubiak's going to be the OC. How funny would it be if it was one of those guys? And then the entire Washington power structure would be all Shattahan related. Yeah, right. That would be so funny. But remember, Quinn hired.

Like rolling back to the clock. Quinn wasn't hired by a Shanahan disciple. He actually hired one. He hired Shanahan. Right, Kyle. Yeah. But it would all have a Shanahan connection, which we talk about endlessly, about the ones that got away.

And here we do. We roll back the clock. We're getting the gang back together. What if he went Scott Turner? What if he really liked Scott Turner? Can you imagine? No, like... Scott Turner, his name doesn't even come up, doesn't it?

No. Well, because he's in Vegas. I know he's in Vegas, but he's not even the offensive coordinator there. Right. Who is? Who did they hire for their offensive coordinator position? I don't know, but it's not Scott Turner. He's lower than that.

I don't think they've hired an offensive coordinator. coordinator yet. I think they're one of the new, I don't think they've hired an offensive coordinator yet. Actually, and I'm looking at it right now, and it doesn't look like they do have one. Yeah, I, so, you know, we've mentioned a lot of names here. You know, there's a guy like Frank Reich who's been considered to be a guru. He would be inexperienced guy. Again, the Carolina situation with Reich. There's a lot of Carolina people that have said that he wanted CJ rowed, but Tepper wanted Bryce Young. And that, you know, got the whole situation off to, you know, that's almost like a Snyder

Dwayne Haskins situation. God rest of the soul. And you've got guys like Brian Greasy and Clint Kubiak and Cliff Kingsbury, which would be very interesting to me because Kingsbury is not a head coach, but everywhere he is coached. He has coached quarterbacks up, and he can coach offense. You know, I threw out on the show yesterday, Greg Roman and you draft Jaden Daniels, but I don't see that, obviously, because Greg Roman didn't get a job after Baltimore let him go last year, in part because while he is a brilliant run game offensive coordinator and was great with dual-threat quarterbacks,

receivers didn't want to play in his offense. And by the way, the fans just got tired of him. But this will be a really important hire, you know, for them. I would imagine they've got a lot of names, you know, that they're going to be going after. There are guys in Dallas like Joe Witt Jr., who's their past game coordinator that have been talked about. There's Al Harris on the Dallas staff that's been talked about as a potential defensive coordinator. You know, the one thing that I hope doesn't happen, and I should have looked this up before we started to record, I can probably look it up right now. But I don't want the greatest

strength of Dan Quinn to be put aside because he's now the head coach, meaning I want him to be the defensive game planner, designer, and play caller. That's what he's done at a very high level, everywhere he's been. And sometimes you hire the head coach for what he did as a coordinator, and then he doesn't do what he did best that got him the job. I have no problem with Dan Quinn being

the defensive head coach and play caller. I think he can also handle being the leader and being the guy in charge overall. He's had some defenses, though, but man, they need some talent. Yeah. Yeah. Like this will be a...

You're going to read my column or not. On the air? You said you were. Oh, you're just BS in me? I don't know. I can do that. The shine in me like you do? Hold on. John Dotson, we welcome you with open arms to Micah Parsons, who said about Dan Quinn's future on January 11th,

he might take me with him. You never know. How many years until Michael Parsons becomes a free agent? I guess this is his fourth year upcoming, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I'm not going to read your column on the air. I would point everybody to Tom's Twitter account where you can read the column.

Is there a specific part? You just read some of it. Is there a specific part you'd like me to read? It isn't that long. You've disappointed me enough by telling me you have not looked at my karaoke performance. I've not looked at your karaoke performance either. I mean, you know, there's nothing you can do today at this point. That's got to repair the damage that's done.

Oh, God. I hate disappointing you. It really, really tears me up inside. All right, we got other things to get to, which we will, right after these words, from a few of our sponsors. Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, you know, Shelly's back room, it's a cigar lounge. It's a cigar lounge with a great menu of drinks and a great menu of food.

Okay, but so it's not a sports bar, but there's a lot of sports overtones around Shelly's. And it's not your typical sports, quote, bar theme in the sense that I'm not talking talking about banners of teams hanging up. I'm not talking about posters of players. I'm talking about the real thing. I'm talking about sports figures showing up at Shelly's backroom to have their own smoke and their own drink. When Paul Pierce was in town for the Wizards, he was at Shelly's all the time. Dennis Rodman, whenever he comes to town, always makes a stop at Shelly's. Ron Darling, when he's coming through town, usually makes a stop at Shelley's backroom. It's that kind of place, okay, that attracts big names in sports passing through who are cigar smokers.

I remember I used to take home day Rio there when Rio worked for the Washington Nationals in the early days. And here's another way that it is a sports bar without being a sports bar. it might be one of the post-game headquarters for the Washington Capitals when they have home games. The Shelley's backroom is filled with Capitol jerseys before a Cats game and after a Caps game. People talking about the game they just saw or excited about the chance to go down to the arena while the arena is still there, while the caps are still there, to go see a game. Shelly's is usually a must stop for Katz fans as well. So while it's not a sports bar, it certainly has a sports personality to it.

Shelley's back room 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district. A phenomenal place. Imagine just being there tonight, all the conversations about Dan Quinn. Yes, yes. And that's what happens in a place like that. And, you know, they'll be talking about a lot of other things, too, including, you know, Zuckerberg's apology yesterday, down on the hill. That was pretty compelling stuff. Hey, Tommy, how about this from Nikki Javala?

With Quinn coming to Washington, Ron Rivera might be in play for the Cowboys' defensive coordinator job. That would be wild. I would not bet on that. That's something Jerry would do. That's something Jerry would do. I wouldn't bet on that, though. I don't see... Neither would I.

Huh? Neither would I. Yeah. But I could see Jerry doing something like that. Jerry likes names. Jerry does like names. But, you know, he just shredded Ron's defense in the... I don't know.

I could see Ron being a linebacker's coach with some sort of associate head coach title somewhere on a staff. I don't know that I see him being a defensive coordinator, but who knows? Wish him the best. There's another angle to the Dan Quinn hiring that a lot of people seem to be obsessed with, and that is the idea that it's just a retread hire. And I got this, and I finally found who sent me this list, this guy Clark sent me a list of retread coaches. Don Shula was a retread coach.

He was in Baltimore, as you know, Tommy, lost Super Bowl 3 to the Jets, came back and was a three-time Super Bowl winner with the Dolphins. Dick Vermeal lost a Super Bowl in Philly, came back one-one with the Rams. Dan Reeves lost a couple of Super Bowls in Denver, came back, got another team to the Super Bowl in Atlanta. Mike Holmgren went to multiple Super Bowls as a retread coach in Seattle. Andy Reid, Bill Belichick was in Cleveland before the Patriots hired that retread. Tony Dungy was a retread when he got hired in Indianapolis.

Coughlin, retread higher. Jacksonville just got him to the playoffs. He's not any good. Pete Carroll, maybe the all-time retread from New England where he wasn't successful to Seattle. Gary Kubiak, Bruce Ariens. There is a long list. of head coaches in NFL. The NBA and the NFL are different.

When these NBA coaches keep getting hired, re-hired over and over again, remember how many times Kevin Lockery and Gene Shue got hired back in the day? And look at Doc Rivers, you know? I mean, God, nobody was watching it, but made another in-game strategic error last night as they lost to Portland. He's Owen, too, is the head coach in Milwaukee. But the NFL's different. The NFL's different.

There are plenty of examples of coaches in their second go-round having great success. Mike Shanahan didn't hear. Joe Gibbs didn't necessarily in his second instant here, but nobody would have referred to either one of those two guys as retreads when they hired him. I think, you know, the best kind of comps, like Coughlin would be a good comp. You know, Pete, Coughlin might be the best comp in terms. terms of a coach who was defensive oriented, who had some success. He didn't get Jacksonville to a Super Bowl, but he got him to an AFC championship game and was considered a retread hire.

Nobody would have been more of a retread hire than what our fans thought back in 2008 when it was possible that Jim Fossil was going to be a retread hire. He never got that opportunity. Yeah. You know, early this morning before this news came out. I was concerned about, I wasn't, I was concerned about the possibility, even though I didn't think it was a probability, but just the possibility that the Dan Quinn pushback from fans and media people would be an influencer on this large search committee or on somebody. Because, you know, there's some of the PTSD coming back for even somebody like me. Now, I talked about it earlier on the radio show before he was hired, but I said,

I don't think that's the case, and I have no reason to believe it's the case. But I do believe that Dan Quinn's been near the top of their list all along, and if they don't hire him, I would hate to think that it was, did you see what the reaction to Dan Quinn was? our fans and look they're trying to build a business but the best way for them to build a business is to not listen to anybody on things like this and there are things for them to listen to fan reaction about you know like the name and things like that you know the uniforms uh you know the type of concessions the type of stadium amenities that kind of thing but not a head coaching hire. And, you know, it turns out they didn't, I don't think, buckle to some of the people that

had a major problem with Dan Quinn and felt the whole process was botched if they hired Dan Quinn. They can now, you know, they'll be judged on this hire. But how long is it, how long before you can judge Josh Harris and Adam Peters on the head coach hire? on everything they do here in this offseason. What's a reasonable amount of time for them to be allowed to run with this thing with some level of benefit of doubt? Okay, well, you can't just put that in a nice little package because there's some things they could do in the first six games

that would have you, you know, hiding your head in fear. I mean, it depends on what we're talking about here. When is it reasonable to have a strong opinion about the job that Josh Harris is an owner and Adam Peters as the lead football decision maker are doing? How much time do you give them? I'm not saying it needs to be in a nice, tidy package. I'm just asking you for, you know, give me a time frame that seems reasonable to you. To me, it's two years. I think two years before you can really be super critical.

or super positive unless they've won the Super Bowl at that point, or, you know, contended for the Super Bowl. You know, fortunately for you, fortunately for me, I don't have such restrictions. I don't either. Okay. Why would I have these restrictions? I'm just asking you.

I'm judging them. I'm judging them right from the get-go. Really? Yes. So. What is this? like on-the-job training? No, it's not on-the-job training,

but there are no results yet to measure. Are you going to measure them based off of one game of results? Based on no games of results, it sounds like you're ready to measure them on zero games played. I think they've got to play some games before I have a sense of whether or not they're doing a good job. And I would say two seasons, of games because you've got to remake this roster, you're going to have a very young quarterback.

I can't imagine at the end of this first year being super, super critical of the Adam Peters hire or any of the hires he makes. I think I could get to the point where I would be super positive. Like, let's just say they have a D'Amico Ryan's Bobby Sloick, C.J. Stroud, Houston Texans, first year. You know, I still think it would be premature, but I think, you know, we could at least say, hey, this seems to be on the right path. Seems to, now, for that to happen, it's less about Dan Quinn and much more about who they take at number two. Because the reason Houston was much better this year in a playoff team and a team that won a playoff game is because of C.J. Stroud. They got it right. It would

appear at number two. That really is basically the ballgame here. The next two years are going to be about who they take at number two more than anything else. You have to forgive me, given my job, if I have opinions on what they do between now and the next two years. Well, I'm paid also, like you are, to have opinions. But to have opinions based on, you know, nothing, the critical thinking there would be to come to the conclusion, I don't have enough information to have a really good opinion. I think that's not a bad place to land, but... So you don't think each act in itself is worthy of judgment? Harsh judgment or over-the-top praise judgment? No. Not at this point. Not until

these people are in these jobs working in this organization with this group of people, and we start to see results, which only happen when they start to play games. Unless, Tommy, unless they hire somebody that goes out and gets arrested in the first week, or, you know, the first three weeks Dan Quinn and Adam Peters have the DEA knocking on their door. Like things like that, obviously we could judge. But other than that, no, I need to see what it looks like on the field. Okay. Okay. I'm not bound by the same, I don't have the same boundary.

I don't have the same boundaries either. I could say right now, I think it's a shitty hire. I think Adam Peters was a joke. I would have gone out and given Bill Belichick everything and let him do it. I could say that, but I don't know how it's all going to come together. And so, I don't know, sometimes I think it's okay to say you don't know. but that's not how you feel. But then again, you always do know.

You always do know. Here's what I don't know. What? How can you give the short shrift to my first karaoke performance? Do you know what happened last night? No, just tell me. A Kenny Dease? What?

I got approached by a guy who is traveling around Florida at these karaoke things and is putting together a record of performances and is interested in what I do. What do you think of that? In what you do for a living or what you do at a karaoke bar? That a karaoke thing. He's interesting. His name is Sammy Panama, and he's with Elwatu Kucy Records.

Sammy Panama and Tommy Purify. Yeah. Yes. All right. That's awesome. You're being approached by a label, it sounds like. And he loved

my performance last night. Okay, I'll put I'll put it up on the... By Johnny Rivers. I'll put it up. I got something going on down here, buddy. This is awesome. This is, can you imagine,

Tommy Levero? It would be, what act would this be for you? This would be a second act or third act, fourth act. I mean, you've been a reporter pretty much your whole life, but then you became a columnist. You've been a radio talk show host. You've been a podcast co-host. You've done a lot of things in your life.

And now you're going to be, now you're going to, I mean, could you see yourself getting into a studio and, you know, producing like three or four or five songs for an EP to put out this year? Well, I like my stuff raw with a live audience. You know, I don't think I'm a studio kind of guy. Are you going to be a singer's songwriter? Are you just going to do covers, karaoke style? I think I think I'm suited for covers at this point. Yeah. What do you think?

What do I think? I haven't listened to this performance yet, which clearly has disappointed you. I'm going to put it up, though, on the, I'm going to tag this show here in about two minutes with Tommy's karaoke performance, or at least some of it. But like I told you last year after some of your karaoke performances, I so respect the courage, but I think you should keep your day job. Look what's happening now, buddy. They're coming from all over. I mean. Sammy Panama.

Yeah. I mean, we got... E.C. A and R guy with Elwatu C. Records. Sammy Panama. What is it? It's some Hawaiian labor. El Wattusi. El Wattusi, all right.

Let's do the Wattusi. They don't have a website, so I'm a little worried about it, but I'm going to have faith. I think, by the way, there was a night where a buddy and I were, you know, it was a live music venue, and there was some band, and we were all hammered, and, you know, we go up and we introduced ourselves as, you know, two guys from some made-up, you know, record label. thing and just, you know, did that whole thing. So this could have been a total put-on from Sammy Panama. Did Sammy Panama give you a card? Did he give you any information? No, no, he just gave me his name and I wrote it down. But there were other people there who knew him at the karaoke thing.

He travels all around Florida at these karaoke things. You know, he's looking for something new, something raw. Okay. I'll slap it on the end of the show to make you happy. And everyone thinks I'm old and not raw, but apparently I'm new and raw. You are new. You're fresh. Let's just hope that you didn't botch it because it was a big spot with a record label in the house last night. What's the name of the place again? Kenny Dees?

Kenny Dees. Yeah. Kenny Dees. All right. You're wondering some night if I'm going to run into Jack Del Rio there sometime. but Jack lives down here. How do you think he'll feel about you? Oh, I don't know.

I tell you what, normally I could care less, but I recognize that Jack Del Rio is a legitimate badass, okay? And I was very hard on him. So I'd rather not have that experience, but, you know, I mean, Kenny Dees is a very well-known place down here. Did you know, and I didn't know this until today, did you know that Dan Quinn went to Salisbury? Yes.

He played football at Salisbury? Yes, he played for the Seagulls. That's awesome. I bet he hung out at Secrets honed down in O.C. I bet he knows all of the haunts in, you know, Ocean City, you know, Bethany Rahobith. He was quite the athlete. I think he was a track star as well. And, yeah, he made his mark at Southbury.

Yeah. University. He's familiar with the area. All right, we're done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow. Jay Gruden will be on the show. We'll get Jay's thoughts on Dan Quinn. Good job, Tommy.

Here comes Tommy Purify last night in front of a big-time record label at Tommy D's. Kennedy's. I don't know. I'm