The Kevin Sheehan Show - Dan Snyder and Peripherals

Episode Date: September 27, 2018

It's a Sports Fix Thursday as Thom Loverro is in. A listener tweeted about Dan Snyder, so Kevin and Thom give their thoughts on if Snyder is still heavily involved in the decisions around the Redskins. They then talk about the first three weeks of the seasons for the Redskins. Who has impressed? What are they still concerned about? What could trip the Redskins up after the bye week. They move on to the Nats home finale from Wednesday night, and Kevin asks Thom if he thinks Bryce will resign. He also talks about Max Scherzer's Cy Young odds, and what makes him angry about this year's Cy Young race. NFL Power Poll is next, and who has been left off of Kevin's list? Finally, Scott Van Pelt joins to talk Tiger's win and more. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. It's a sports fix Thursday. Tom Leverro's in the house. Aaron is here where Chatter and Friendship Heights, corner of Wisconsin and Jennifer Street's Northwest. Come in to chatter. Great place to watch all of the football. Tonight is a really, really good Thursday night game. Vikings ran. This show is presented by Windonation. If you're in the market for Windows call now, call before Sunday. You'll save Big, much more on how you'll save big with Windonation in a few minutes. But you can call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. How are you this morning? I don't know if you noticed, but it's raining out a little bit. Just a little bit.

It's going to rain again tomorrow. It's supposed to pour tonight. It's supposed to have flooding tonight. It's unbelievable. Really? It's amazing. Do you know, the tree root systems now have been compromised to the point where trees could, with a little bit of wind, start to fall over. Yes. In mass.

Yes, it's a nightmare. You know, three years ago, the learners, did I talk, I don't know if I talked to you about this. God, you forgot. You just mentioned that to me two days ago about how they wanted the city to build a retractable roof. It seems like a good idea now. It does, and it seemed like a really good idea when you presented it on Tuesday, two days ago. Was I here Tuesday? You were here Tuesday.

Jesus, that's a long time ago. You were here Tuesday. I'm going to read this tweet from Carl, and then I'll tell you what I said yesterday on the show. Kevin, you said the owner, Dan Snyder, is hands off these days, that you believe it to be true. What makes you think that? Please elaborate on that. He's been the one constant over 20 years of losing. What makes you think his hands are off this team?

So yesterday, I don't even know when I said it. I vaguely remember saying in talking about sort of why a season could go in the wrong direction after a nice two-and-one start. I said, well, of course we know how it could go poorly. I mean, have you not lived here? Have you not lived through this story over the last 20 years? But I said, Tommy, I don't think it's going to be owner messed up this time because I do believe, and I don't think you're going to agree with me, which is fine. I've been told many times over the last three years by people close to the day-to-day operations in Ashburn. And you know this. I did. We both did shows from Ashburn and we have over the years that he really isn't even there anymore.

Not that he has to be there to mess it up, but that after the Griffin episode in 2013, when he was far too comfortable and far too comfortable and far too. close to the quarterback, and that was a relationship owner and quarterback that ended up being disruptive to the team, that after that, he has really been, for the most part, except for big decisions being brought in for an update and an opinion that he's been out of it. Like, he is not involved. Bruce is involved, all right? Your Prince of... Prince of Darkness.

Has been involved, but that Dan hasn't. That's my view. I think it changed when Bruce got here in 2010 in terms of his involvement. It didn't keep him from developing a relationship with the quarterback in 2012. Bruce couldn't stop that. Shanahan couldn't stop that. But I don't think it is what a lot of people still think it is. And I would doubt highly that if they end up having a bad season after a good start, this is just my view. And I know, it's a contrarian minority view. I don't think it would be because of something that Dan did in the middle of the season. I don't. Well, it depends on if he fires Jay Gruden

or not in the middle of the season if they lose four straight. I don't think he's going to do that. I don't think he would do that without his football people saying it's the right thing to do. Oh, I think he would ignore his football people in that sense. I think, again, you're overstating this. And in 2010, he had a big impact on

a Donovan McNabb deal, a deal that Mike Shanahan didn't want to make. So it happened before Griffin. And again, you know, this is like the bank robber, the head of a gang that robbed banks that all of a sudden says, I'm going to let other people do it from now on. I've taught you all? Yes, I've taught you all how to wreck this franchise. And you all operate under the fear and dysfunction that I've instilled for decades. My work is done here.

I can just sit back and watch because you know what I want. You know the way I do business. And you better do business my way. Do you really believe that? Oh, absolutely. This guy, he has infected a franchise and his presence will keep that franchise infecting until he's gone. This franchise will never be healthy as long as Dan Snyder's the owner.

Never. Look, it starts at the top. know that. It's not been very good at the top. I'm not speaking to the top not being important to the success of an organization, of an NFL organization. All I'm speaking to is that his day-to-day involvement in the franchise has been grossly exaggerated in recent years. That's what I'm speaking to. He's not in draft meetings. He's not telling people what to do in free agency. He's not on a field with a stopwatch timing somebody. He doesn't have Vinny out there.

Hey, I like that guy. Go get him at any cost. That doesn't exist and hasn't existed since 2010, although you did bring up Donovan McNabb. And that was without question, as we know, the first move made after hiring Mike Shanahan and Shannon said, I don't want the deal. I don't want Donovan McNabb.

The guy that he wanted was the Rams quarterback, the West Virginia quarterback who ended up retiring, whose name escapes me right now. We'll come up with that shortly. Yeah, Bulger. He wanted Mark Bulger. And that was the guy. And Bruce came back to him and said, Bulger's retiring. We can't get him.

But guess who we got you? Yes. And he's, I don't want McNabb. But anyway, I, you know what, it's not really worth getting into in great detail. I don't think he's involved day to day. I don't think that he would be the reason this year that the season goes south. I think the better chance of this season going south, if it does would be because of coaching, because of a lack of wide receivers, or because of injuries like last year.

Okay, Kevin. Who gave the coach the contract extension? I think Bruce really was behind the contract extension. Do you think Dan said no? No, of course Dan was involved in decisions at that level. If it goes south because of coaching, then who's responsible? He is. Okay.

Again. There's active interference and there's subtle interference. Passive interference? I mean, his presence, again, permeates the entire franchise. He's, I mean, except for these outsiders on the business side that he's brought in. A lot of the people who have been there have been there for a while now, and they know what Dan Snyder wants. And they fear, I'm sure they fear Dan Snyder. And, you know, I'm so.

Sorry, but I wouldn't believe anything that anybody who works for that organization in any way, shape, or form tells me about anybody or anything. And that's your prerogative. I do believe that, I do believe it to be true of the last few years, that he's been very, very hands-off. Not when it comes to major decisions. Remember, there was apparently a conversation, at least one between Snyder and Kirk Cousins during the whole, you know, Kirk Cousins situation. And that's not unusual. No. It's not unusual for most owners. I don't have a problem with that.

But then most owners don't have a rap sheet like Dan Snyder. Understood. We both think, or at least I do, that their new chief operating officer, Brian Lafamina, is a breath of fresh air. How long he'll be able to breathe that into the organization? Actually, this owner of yours mentioned that the new quarterback is a breath of fresh air. But, you know, he's not that involved. You can say that as an owner.

Okay. You can say that as an owner. Why can't you say, hey, the quarterback's a breath of fresh air? Compared to what? I guess compared to the last quarterback. Compared to the stench of the last quarterback? Yeah, which, whatever. Okay.

You know what I did yesterday on NFL buyer's sell? I sold the Vikings as a Super Bowl contender. Really? Yeah. You can go back and listen to that on the podcast from yesterday. It's in like minute 50 something. You know, I would have listened to it, but I was pretty busy. I know. You're on with Chad in the afternoon.

Early in the afternoon, because I listened to some of that. Yeah, and then I had to go over to Nats Park for the game. Which we'll get to in a moment. So it's the bye week for the Redskins coming up. And you and I would do this every year, and I've done it in the last couple of years with Coolly. You know, you get to the buy week and it's like mid-season grade time, you know, which is the cliche sports talk radio segment during a buy week. But you really can't do that.

when the buy week is in week four. No, you can't. So what I was going to ask you, and I will weigh in as well, is through three weeks, do you have a hunch on a player or two that you think is in for a big year, and maybe a hunch on a player or two or something else with the team that you are concerned with? Anyone on the offensive side of the ball? Anyone I'm concerned with. I don't think the offense is going to be very good this year.

I just think they're going to struggle. It's not necessarily going to be Alex Smith's fault. I just think that you really underestimate how pathetic their running game will wind up being because I don't see how you can count on Adrian Peterson for 16 games. Why can't you count them on them for that? Because 33-year-old running backs don't want. They usually don't, but you would agree that he is, he's a freak.

A physical freak compared to most. You can be a freak all you want. Kevin, you know when you get... Riggo was a physical freak. When you get older, you know that the recovery time for your body is different. So when you get hurt, the recovery is different. So he can be the freakyest freak you want. You can probably light matches on his body. He's probably so cut.

But that doesn't mean if he gets hurt like he's hurt right now. apparently. Yes. It's going to take longer for him to recover than it did three or four or five years ago. Okay, so that's your concern. So my concern, anything offensively. Does that include the quarterback? Yes, because he needs help.

I mean, he can't run the ball every play. So he needs help. And I just think every, I just don't think offensively they're going to be very good. Now, fortunately, what will keep them afloat will be defensively. And this is an easy one. but if he stays healthy Jonathan Allen's going to be an all-pro. That was where I was going to start.

John Allen is a pro bowler. I don't know if it's this year in year two, which is really, if he plays 16 games, it'll be his first full season because he got injured for the final nine or ten of last year. But it's not much, it's not out on a limb in terms of the hunch. John Allen looks like a particular, dominant interior defensive linemen.

The Redskins have not had a dominant interior defensive lineman since Dave Butts. Yes. Seriously. I know. In terms of an interior defensive tackle type. It seems like for decades they've had undersized nose tackles. Yeah. They've been,

or washed up nose tackles. They've been lacking at that position forever. I mean, you know, Cornelius Griffin, I thought was really good for a year or two. I thought he was a very good player for a year or two. They have not had, since they went to the three-four in Mike Shanahan's first season in 2010, they have not had a true nose tackle, which most football people would say, you need a nose tackle to play the three-four. Well, they did briefly.

A guy named the Pocono Punisher, but he couldn't stay healthy. Yeah, Chris Neal. So John Allen, to me, through three games, and I think I had a feeling about this last year through his first five or six games, as most of you. So are you going to do? say you had this? No, I'm not going to say I had it. I'm saying this is not out on a limb. This is an obvious hunch that I think every Redskin fan has is that John Allen looks like a true elite interior defensive lineman, and they haven't had that for years, and it will make a

huge difference. Yes, it will. Stopping the run, and it will make a massive difference in their pass rush to get interior pressure. So I think that potentially he's a pro bowler this year. You've got some good interior. I agree. You've got guys like Cox and Donald, et cetera, in the NFC. But Allen is a star in the making. I also have a very good feeling about Zach Brown again. You know, I got into this debate a lot with Redskin fans last year and with Cooley,

who said Zach Brown is a terrific athlete and he runs and he flashes and the speed is there, but he can't cover anybody. And therefore, you know, he's really only a B-minus kind of player. I think that speed, and he's healthy right now, you add him to their interior stuff, and then you got a guy like Nicholson who can really run. And by the way, Fabian Moreau can really run. You know, Zach Brown, to me, I've just got a hunch, is going to have a pro bowl kind of season. He is their most athletic guy, their fastest guy, and I think you could argue their best playmaker on defense. Now, does he have flaws? Yes. Can they keep him away from those

flaws being exposed? Like, don't have him in coverage? Of course. He's really good as a pass rusher. I think they should use him more on the outside as a pass rusher than they have in the past, especially given that, you know, Carrigan and Smith right now are just okay players. Let me ask you about that. We're talking about the power of the interior line. and the value it has for the pass rush. But we haven't seen the pass rush. Why is that? Why do you think that? Why is, why is Kerrigan so quiet this year?

We saw pass rush against Aaron Rogers. On Sunday, Matt Ionitis was a, John Allen and Doran. I'm talking about from the exterior. Well, why haven't we seen it from Preston Smith and Ryan Carrigan? Okay, well, there's one obvious reason, and that is they're just okay pass rushers. Ryan Carrigan is a double-digit pass rusher year after year on bad, on teams without interior push. That is true.

But I have never felt about Ryan Kerrigan that he is an elite pass rusher, even though sometimes his numbers say that he's a very good to elite pass rusher. I've never felt that way about Kerrigan. I think Kerrigan is a good, is a really good player. I don't think he's a great player. And what we've seen so far from him this year is not even the Ryan Kerrigan of the past. And to your point, with better interior moving of the offensive line in the correct direction towards the backfield,

Kerrigan and Preston Smith should thrive. It's a bit of a mystery that they haven't. I think Zach Brown's going to thrive. But it's early, but Kerrigan got close, I guess, a couple of times. Yeah, he gets held a lot, and everybody knows that. And it's illegitimate. He does. He gets held a lot.

You know, Zach Brown is a bad dude. Zach Brown was an unbelievable high school wrestler up in Howard County. Right, yeah, from this area. Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, he may have been one of the best heavyweight wrestlers in the history of the state. I didn't know that. I knew he was a wrestler.

Oh, he was very successful. I mean, it was probably, you know, I don't know if it was as important for him as football. A lot of football players go into wrestling just because it's a natural thing. but he was a badass as a high school wrestler. You're right, he's a terrific athlete. A couple of other hunches. I have a hunch that Fabian Moreau is the real deal and is going to develop into the real deal.

This is really his first year of playing after being drafted last year. Remember, this is a guy that if he hadn't been hurt for his pro day at UCLA, may have been a first round pick. He has that kind of talent. You know, I've had this conversation on even this podcast, of two and a half weeks.

I think I've had it at least once, but I did it all the time on radio. And Doc was the first one to say last year, last summer at training camp. He's like, look at Moreau and then look at Josh Norman. Like how does Norman do it when he can't run?

And it's true. Josh Norman can't run. Fabian Moreau can run. Fabian Moreau has true top end cornerback speed and length. he has the whole package, if you watch him, physically, and hopefully he'll start to put it together mentally. I have a hunch that he and Nicholson are going to become very good players.

You know, I'm starting to look at the last few drafts defensively with Alan, with Payne, with Nicholson, with Moreau, and you're starting to realize the Redskins actually may have hit on some of these finally. And they've got some decent talent. But it is amazing about Josh Norman, because his game is all, all experience and mental sort of high IQ football IQ. He has the Pierre Garsohn gene, the sense that he was a low draft pick from a small college. And even to get in the coastal Carolina was hard for him at a high school.

So he's had to fight. And you know, you have some guys that that winds up being fuel. I've joked about it, the chip on your. shoulder. But that clearly what drives Garsohn. Garsohn went to Mount Union College, Division III. Wait. Yeah, right. And London, Fletcher was, you know, for so many years, was sort of cut from that. John Carroll. John Carroll in Ohio. So I think that really, he's had to get by on his smarts and toughness. Yeah, his whole career. And as he gets older, that's going to be harder and harder to do. But you're right. He's not, he's not the same kind of

of physical talent as Moreau? My hunch offensively in sort of a positive way, and this again is hardly a leap, because we know what he is when he's been healthy. Jordan Reed should have a monster year if he can play the majority of games because they don't have much else. And it's so crucial this year,

especially with this quarterback. I'm not going to go down the, the, comparison thing. I think even Alex Smith's supporters say he needs weapons. He's got to have weapons. And Jordan Reed is the number one weapon on the football team, number one football player on the team. And we've seen this in the past that when Jordan Reed's on the field, there is a defensive focus on Jordan Reed. And sometimes that's not even good enough. And this is where I give Jay Gruden a lot of credit. This is where he's really good. Rudin's able to take a guy like Jordan Reed, where the defense is focused on stopping Jordan Reed and using him in stacks and in motions and getting him in matchups that he can win consistently,

like on Clay Matthews the other day where it was a joke with him in coverage on him. And that led to a big gain. And then you had the big play out of the end zone, out of deep in their end zone. But the thing that Jordan Reed does when he's on the field is he's going to give a mediocre group of wide receivers a change. to make plays. Because Alex Smith will often look at Reed and say look at the defensive attention and now all of a sudden Richardson's got man coverage or Doxon's got man coverage. Josh

Doxon. I'm not familiar with that. Most aren't. And you'll have the opportunity, those guys will have the opportunity. And I'm going to be interested, too, just to see what Jay Gruden does with teams that decide to do what Green Bay did a ton of on Sunday, which is

blitz to keep Chris Thompson in. You know, if you send that fifth or sixth guy after the quarterback and Thompson's in the game, Thompson's got to stay in as a pass blocker. That's not ideal.

It's not ideal. So, Gruden will come up with answers. This is what he is good at. He'll come up with answers to not have Chris Thompson taken out of a game because the other team decides to blitz. Now, if they do decide to blitz, that means you've got Reed and other receivers in man-covered.

I just look at Jordan Reed. He looks healthy to me. Jay Gruden said the other day, we've been easing him into it, but now we're ready to really turn him loose. Let's hope he stays healthy. That's a big hope. It's a big ask based on previous history. I mean, not only his history. He's a dominant player, Tommy. He is. He is. He can't be covered. Cannot be checked by almost anybody. You've got to put a corner on him. But the thing is, with this guy, it's not just his injuries. He, I, I, I believe that he almost came close to retiring a couple years ago from the concussions. So I think he's one concussion away from being out of the league.

And concussions can happen no matter how careful you are. It's part of the nature of the game. So I don't know how you protect against that. I'm going to give you a shiny red apple for today. Okay. Who are the three top offensive players, including linemen, on this Redskins team, in 2018. Well, it's Thompson.

I'm sorry, it's Trent Williams, it's Jordan Reed, and it's Chris Thompson. Who drafted all them? Mike Shanahan. That's pretty remarkable when you think about it. That the core offensive talent of this team, and Mike Shanahan hasn't been here since 2013, are

still draft picks by Mike Shanahan. I mean, they've done very well. Ryan Kerrigan was in Mike Shanahan. I know, but they've done very well defensively recently, like you pointed out. Offensively, not so well. You know, the Jordan Reed selection in 2000. Okay, Jordan Reed was taken in the 2013 draft, right? The 2013 draft in the third round. Mike had told you and I this story a long time ago, and when he was on with me a week and a half ago, I had him tell this story again.

Griffin, and he said this wasn't unusual for players to advocate on behalf of the players that they had played with in college. But Griffin came in and said, no, Jordan Reed. Don't go there. Terrence Williams, the Baylor wide receiver who's now a cowboy, please, this is the guy we need. Terrence Williams is an okay player. And Mike said Jordan Reed was a quarterback, was a basketball player, and we know what these basketball players have been as tight ends in the NFL. And we didn't see it. We didn't see it with Thompson for a few years because of injuries. Because of injury. And they drafted him with a history of injury. Yes, they did at a Florida State. At a Florida State.

So thanks for the shiny red apple. It tastes great. And so the areas that I'm concerned about, I'm just going to give you one right now. It's not that I'm concerned about him. I just, we've said it already. I just know from watching Alex Smith during the course of his career and I've always liked Alex Smith. I've always considered him to be a top half of the league starter. All right, not top 10, top half.

But I think it's a work in progress right now with Alex Smith and Jay Gruden and Matt Kavanaugh and the whole group. And if you start taking some of these pieces away, like if the offensive line, Trump Williams is having the surgery, if Jordan Reed were to get health, look at what happened to Alex Smith when he lost Travis Kelsey in the playoff game last year. Look, I agree with you. Absolutely. All I'm saying is I think Alex Smith is good.

and I think Alex Smith is more than adequate if this team is as improved on defense as I think it is for them to be competitive this year, but you cannot take weapons away from him, or I'm telling you, you will watch a quarterback that will crumble in front of your eyes. He has to have. The last guy didn't have to have all of it, and he was more of a systems read guy. This guy can make plays, which is what I love, but if you don't have Adrian Peterson and this running game being a threat at least this year, and you don't have Jordan Reed on the field, it's, I will, I'll agree with you.

The offense will be the biggest problem. Because it hasn't shown, I mean, I mean, say for a quarter or a half here and there, it hasn't been consistently good. They have three good quarters. Yeah. So, I mean, there's reason to be worried about that. And the difference for Alex Smith is if it's third and four or third and five, he can get you that first down.

Third and nine, not with his legs. Can't do it then. Who, Alex Smith? Yeah. Well, he can against teams playing man coverage with threats. He's a creator. This is what, and they're going to need that, by the way, if they don't have health along the offensive line and they lose players. Look, right now, for the most part, we don't know what the Trent Williams injury is.

But for right now, you know, Morgan Moses, hopefully he's back after the break. although the whole, you know, Ruey to guard, Berkstrom to center, and Seki in a tackle, didn't work out that badly for the Redskins. But I just think that they're better defensively, they're improved defensively, they're not the number one defense, okay, that's not what they are. All right, they could be a top 10 defense

when all is said and done, potentially. Top 12, I think, is a really good bet. statistically, but more than that, sort of, you know, with your eyes, you feel like you're watching a top 10 to top 12 defense. But offensively, it could break down and end up being a real issue if all of these guys don't stay healthy for Alex Smith. I agree. Anyway, okay. I want to tell you about Wind Donation. They were the first. Harley and Aaron were the first to reach out when I started this podcast venture just two and a half weeks ago. Harley and I had been friends for a while. If you like this show and you're thinking about buying new windows, I promise you that you'll be thrilled if you call Window Nation. They will take care of you, I promise. Halloween, we are now approaching a month away from Halloween. Thanksgiving, two months away.

Christmas, three months away. What does that mean? It means winter is coming, Tommy. Winter is coming. Game of Thrones in the spring of 2019. Did you ever get into Game of Thrones? I forget. No. I never. No, I couldn't find. a costume to wear that I liked. I couldn't convince you to get into the Game of Thrones. You're missing out, Tom. Oh, yeah, I'm missing out. You're missing out, Tom.

Oh, my gosh. You'll have to wear your costumes to the studio someday. How many times have I told you? It's not that. Oh, my God, it's one step away from Dungeons and Dragons. No, it isn't. It is, too. God, you know what?

You know, when it comes to things like this, you know, Ozark, you're watching Ozark. Look, but you didn't turn me on to Oz. No, you did. I think I did. I think I did. You didn't? You didn't?

I turned you on to Ozark. You keep doing that. I'm going to tell you what to heck. And you ain't got to like it. I've only watched two episodes in season two. So. But it's not what you think, Game of Thrones. Anyway, winter is coming. Now is the time you need to start acting when it comes to winterizing your home with brand new wind donation windows. If you wait, you may be too late to replace your old drafty windows before nasty winter weather hits.

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86690 Nation or Windonation.com by this Sunday and tell them I told you to call. I promise you if you call Windonation and you say, I was listening to the Kevin Sheehan podcast or the Sports Fix podcast when Tommy's on and I need new windows. You won't be disappointed. Bryce Harper last night played what many believe to be Tommy

his final home game at Nats Park. It wasn't even a complete home game as they got to seven innings. The rain came and they beat Miami. By the way, they're in second place now. The Phillies have totally collapsed. The Phillies have completely collapsed. Under the weight of their analytics. Their lunatic manager.

So I was listening to Bob Nightingale this morning. on Galdi show on 980. You know Nightingale. He's the most plugged-in writer in all baseball. I remember when you told me that five years ago, and was very close with Dusty, right? Yes. And he said this morning, he said,

Bryce Harper, he predicts, will resign with the Nationals. He said the Phillies are a possibility, the Giants are a possibility, maybe the Dodgers, but that his prediction, and he is as plugged in with the Nats and the Orioles as anybody, he predicts that Bryce Hart will resign with the nationals. Do you agree with him?

No, I don't. They've had six years to resign Bryce Harper. When they were the only one to be able to talk to him, they have a month left to do that until he becomes a free agent, and then everybody can bid on him. And I think the bidding will wind up getting out of control. Bryce Harper said, I mean, he said a lot of things that, some things that were more telling than others.

And one of the things he said, I think, before the game, about whether or not he signs here is if I'm in the Nationals plans. He's very aware of personnel decisions, and he knows everybody has speculated about the Nationals' outfield next year with Juan Soto, Victor Robles, who went four for four yesterday. Yeah, what a day. And is on fire. Five RBIs.

Right. And Adam Eaton. That's what he's talking about with plans. He knows that there's a plan beyond Bryce Harper, that on paper looks pretty good. So I think that's what he's talking about when he says, if I'm in their plans or if they're making plans without me. Don't you think part of that, though, is also just to do what many perceived Kurt Cousins,

what he did, which was to just say, hey, it's in their court. Of course. This is why I don't think he's... If I'm not here, it wasn't about me. It was about them. This is why I don't think he's going to sign here. I think that he's saying the right things, most of the right things. most of the right things.

I think, but look, he would be foolish, I think, not to try to become a free agent. I mean, how many, there, we very few opportunities for a player coming into his prime, coming into his prime years, to have this much financial power. You have to explore it. And, you know, this notion that Washington is my city,

I think that's just talk. You know, I mean, there were five, Nat's winter festivals when he was here. He stood him up for three of them. He didn't show up. Now, one of them, he was in a little bit of a paid dispute. The other one, he was getting ready for his wedding, and last year was supposedly his wedding anniversary. And you want to know something? If it's your city and they're your fans, you're there. So I'm not buying this thing that, I mean, I think in the beginning when he first came, I think he felt that. Do you remember like within the first couple of days when he arrived here in Washington,

him walking around the mall around the Washington Monument and stopping to play softball with a bunch of guys playing. I actually don't remember that. It was... I know that he embraced the city. But early. Yeah.

Not so much the last couple years. I think he's distanced himself. And that may be a product of being married and, you know, living back in Las Vegas. but I think he started putting walls up. I think in the beginning it seemed real possible that he would be part of this city for a long time. And I think he's distanced himself since then. What is the calculus that the learners have to put together here?

Or do they? This is what he means if he's here to our revenues, to our profitability, to our mass and relationship to, because there's, we talked about needle movers the other day. Bryce Harper is a needle mover to a certain extent. Media-wise, not necessarily attendance-wise. You don't think so. Look, I believe, you don't you, do you agree that he's a superstar? Yes, I do. But position players in baseball, people don't show up at the park generally as much to see position players as they do pitchers. Pitchers are far bigger needle movers. Max, Scherzer has a far bigger impact on attendance than Bryce Harper because you don't know if

Bryce Harper is going to be in a lineup every day. Well, the learners consider more than just, hey, are we better with them or without them on the field? Will they consider all of these things that I just described, business reasons to keep them and to do some sort of exercise that says, if we can get them for this amount, he will pay for himself? Will they approach it that way? Or are they just going to rely on Rizzo to say we can field a really competitive team without spending 300 or 400 million dollars on him? I think that they'll take everything into account. But there's some complicated issues in account.

And I think if Bryce Harper turns around and says, well, you know, it was up to them to sign me, the learners are going to turn around and say, we would have, but all our money's tied up in this mass and dispute. This massive dispute that baseball hasn't taken care of yet has kept us from the ability to sign Bryce Harper. I guarantee that's going to be used as an excuse. And it may be a valid one to some extent, although learners can spend as much money as they want. Again, you have the luxury tax. You don't want the payroll to go over the luxury tax.

Signing a $35 to $40 million year player is not generally good baseball economics. It restricts your payroll flexibility, which is the key to success. So the other thing, Galdi's interview this morning with Bob Nightingale from USA Today, Nightingale disclosed that Scott Boris and Bryce Harper asked after the 2015 season for $540 million, a $540 million ask at that point, and that that turned the learners off. at that particular point. Now the numbers are not going to be that high. You would agree with that, right?

Where do you think the number goes? I think it could be $400 million or a little bit over. Look, I think there'll be competition for Price Harper. And it was interesting. That was after his MVP season. I know. But they didn't make the playoffs either that year as well. So that that's taking into account.

I just think that Look, like I said, Nightingale is as plugged in as anybody, but you have the Massen situation, you have their relationship with Scott Boris. The learners are very close to Scott Boris. That doesn't mean Boris is going to do him a favor, even though he's like their adopted son. And then you have the Strasbourg thing

that kind of throws everything out of whack. Why? Well, most people... Because they got a good deal on him. with Boris. Yeah, well, because Strasbourg did want to stay here. Yes. And signed for a deal that most people thought was lower than what he could have gotten on the open market. But it was still a real good deal. It was a good deal, but it wasn't apparently the Boris, you know, killer deal. No, no, it wasn't. It was not what typically what Scott Boris wants to do. Ultimately,

he has to do what the client wants. I mean, no matter how powerful an agent he is, you've felt, you've said this, everybody said this. We felt like Bryce Harper was leaving from the day he got here. And I think part of the reason why people are kind of resigned to it is because they've had six years to get ready for it. And now they're going to get

jinned up about the, you know, whether or not he'll sign in the last month, what he'll do in free agency. And I don't think he's looking forward to it. I don't think he's looking forward to it, which is unusual because I mean, there was a time where he would have loved. The attention.

Yeah. And again, he's changed. He's changed a lot. He calls it maturing, and I still think he's got some maturing to do. But he does not want the spotlight. You saw that brief moment at the All-Star game when he won the home run derby, and he loved that, and that was the old Bryce Harper. But we have not seen much of that in the last two years. I think one of the things that they risk here, if they don't, if they're not aggressive in trying to sign Harper is some level of national relevance. The Nats and Bryce Harper have been synonymous. They've been a national sports and certainly a national MLB story since the day he signed, or drafted, was drafted since the day that he was called up in Los Angeles in 2012.

Right. This is, I know that the Nats have been associated with Strasbourg and in recent years with Scherzer, but Harper's been the guy that when you say Washington Nationals, yeah, that's where Bryce Harper plays. Is it important to be relevant nationally because of a superstar player? And then what about locally? Will impact them at all not to have, and I know Scherzer is a superstar, I get it, but will it impact them at all not to have Bryce Harper as a Washington National? I can't. I will think differently about the team. I'm still going to route for the team. I want Harper here. He's one of the reasons that I pay attention every single night when they're on.

He has been. He's been a draw for me. Baseball is the national relevance is not as important in baseball. It's more of a regional sport now more than ever in terms of relevance. So I don't think that that's really going to have an impact. I think people are going to get caught up in the Juan Soto attention. moving into next year. He has a chance to still be the rookie of the year. He's doing things that even Bryce Harper didn't do when he was 19 years old.

And again, baseball, ultimately, the Houston Astros have shown that winning is what will draw people. And losing will keep them away. If the Nats were to wind up having a couple of rebuild seasons like the Phillies or the Braves did recently, you'd see attendance in that. It'd be a ghost town. I don't think they will. I think that they're retooling without rebuilding, and I give them a lot of credit for that.

The guy, again, I've repeated this many times. The guy who they can't let leave is Anthony Rendon. He's their best player. He's their best offensive player. That's the guy they need to keep. Is there any chance Dave Martinez doesn't get a second year? Any chance at all? Of course there's always a chance.

I'd be shocked. if that happened. I get no vibe that that's happening. It's not like Matt Williams, where he was like sitting in his office, you know, with marbles in his hand, wondering what everyone was thinking of him. Dave Martinez is out there in the clubhouse,

has the support of the players, players like him. They think he's a good manager. So I don't get the sense of that. Plus, the learners hate paying managers. That's true. And let alone managers not to manage. Well, they don't value managers anyway. No.

Now, that said... They can't, by the way, actually believe, given that they wanted Dusty out of there, they can't believe that Martinez is responsible for this season. Well, they can. They thought Dusty was. Yeah, but they moved on Dusty to get this new guy. No, they didn't have any idea what they were going to do once they got Dusty. Once they kicked Dusty out, they had no idea what.

what they were going to do after that. It seems sort of at odds, more so than hypocritical, that you would undervalue the managerial position as much as they have, essentially say it's really not significant to winning, yet blame last year on Dusty and then potentially blame this year on Dave Martinez. Yeah, I didn't say they were smart. In their own way, they're just as dysfunctional as the Redskins. Really?

You think they're that dysfunctional? People have, I mean, Mike Rizzow and winning has perfumed a lot of stuff that has gone on there. Their reputation, you talk about the national, in the business community. You're right about that. And not only that, in the business of baseball on the business side, it's not good. It's not good either. The one thing to watch, just a small, small, small, small glimpse to watch is that Bucson Showalter's about to lose his job. I know.

And Buck and Mike Rizzo were very tight from their days in Arizona. Just throwing that out there. But it's going to cost money to hire Buck Showwall. It's going to cost money on both ends. Dave Martinez leaving and Buck coming in. Real quickly, did DeGrom wrap up the Sion last night or not? Unfortunately, I think he did.

I mean, look, from what I read, there's a ground sweat. Here's what there is, which is really disgusting about our business and about the geeks that seem to run. Is this in analytics discussions? Well, it is in part because here's what I'm talking about. In the Cy Young Award, if DeGrom wins, he was another choice. That's fine. He's not the guy I think should win. You think Max Scherzer should win.

But if DeGrom wins, fine. That's it. It's a debate over who should win. For those that missed it, he shut out the Braves last night and his ERA right now is one point. Yeah, it's like in the past 50 years, it's only been three or four pitchers over the course of his season who have done that. He's not non-deserving of the Cy Young.

But if Max Scherzer would win, it would be a holy war for the geeks. You're an idiot if you think Max Scherzer should win. And if people, and there'll be voters of the baseball writers who will vote for Max Scherzer, who will vote for Aaron Nola, And they'll be, they'll be ridiculed and they'll be crucified on social media by the geeks. How could you possibly, I remember when Miguel Cabrera won the MVP over Mike Trout.

I mean, it was, it was like you were saying the earth is flat. It's really unbelievable. So for these morons, it's a holy war. Oh, God, you love those people. Well, because, again, by the way, I don't know that this particular debate is so much analytics versus sort of, of traditional stuff. But I guarantee you anyone who votes for Scherzer or Aaron-N-O-N-A-N-W-A. Well, no, we'll be cast that way, and that's not right.

I don't know if that's the case, though, because a lot of the analytics people love Scherzerzer because of all of its peripherals. Peripherals. Oh, yeah. All of the geeky stats favor Scherzerzer. Yeah, what are the peripherals? Peripherals. Oh, you know something, Aaron?

Like, his vision? All the Gigi people love Scherzer. It's not my podcast, okay? Yes, it is on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I'm going to forbid you ever to use that word again in any way, shape, or form. Okay? I don't want to hear peripherals. It ranks up there.

I just wanted to see how red your face would get. It ranks up there with haters and nuance. And urgency? No, I like urgency. You know, this is the weekend that you hope to get a pennant race or two. We only have one. We have a wild card race, too. Yes.

The Colorado Rockies, have you seen what they've done to the Phillies the last three nights? They've outscored the Phillies the last three games, 34 to 4. They are now a half game in front of the Dodgers in the National League West. And the Phillies are behind the Nationals, which is pretty hilarious. Guess who's going to impact the National League West race this weekend? And they're going to impact. The Nationals are at Colorado to finish up the season. And that actually, like, I'd much rather have a team that's out of the playoffs in any sport

that I root for, my team involved in a meaningful game at the end of the year. and they're going to be involved, and they're going to be involved in three of them. Yeah. Because the Dodgers have the Giants on the road. Colorado has the national, they've got the nationals at home. They have a game against the Phillies today. In their last five games, Colorado's outscored their opponents, 47 to 7. That's really almost unheard of in a five-game stretch.

They are red-hot, and who do the Nats have this weekend in Colorado? Scherzer is going to pitch one of those games, right? I don't think he is. No, I don't think so. And Tanner Roark isn't because he's home with his family. I think his wife is having a baby or something like that. Who's pitching? Strasbourg?

I don't think Strasbourg is either. I don't know. I mean, it's going to be a cast of unknowns pitching. That's your one-penet race. And then you've got a wild... See, the Dodgers, the second place... Joe Ross is pitching on Friday and TBA for the other two days. Okay.

So the Brewers have wrapped up one. of the wild card spots, but do you know they're only a half game behind the Cubs right now in their division? But the Cubs and or Brewers have wrapped up one of the two wildcard spots, and the other one will come from either St. Louis, who just got swept, I believe, by Milwaukee, who's red hot all the sudden, or Colorado, Los Angeles, the team that doesn't win the National League West. It's a real battle there. And I always, like, I'm looking at the Dodgers, and I don't know how they sort of will play out. They would love to have Kershaw. I think Granky just pitched last night or the night before and got shelled by Arizona. But it would be, I'd love to see if the Dodgers are in that

one game wild card, I'd love to see Kershaw as the starter. Like in a one game win or go home, you want to see the best pitcher. Do you like the, do you like the one game wild card? I've been fine with it. I like it. I think it's fine. I like it. Again, people say you play, You win 95 games all year, and it comes down to one game. Well, then win the division. Yeah, win the division. Simple as that. Without it, you would have been watching from home.

I think it valued winning division even more, and I'm always in favor of that. You know, I'm very impressed. You must not have much to do these days. What do you mean? I mean, with your baseball acumen sitting here, you kind of blew me away here. Well, you know that I'm a playoff. I love the postseason in baseball. I just don't recall you being so enthusiastic about it.

Always about the postseason. To me, Tommy, October is top five for me, October baseball. Last year, the Cubs Nats series was riveting, start to finish, especially the game four at Wrigley with Strasbourg being sick and then pitching. And really, that's what got dusty fired. The Strasbourg thing? The way he handled it publicly? That's what got him fired. Why?

He's the one that sort of incented, I think, Strasbourg on a certain level to get out. there in pitch. Well, but an embarrassing the organization. Well, that's their fault. Yes, it is. It is their fault. But they pinned it on Dusty. And what he should have... By pulling Strasbourg out of it initially,

not saying he wasn't going to start, instead of just saying he's sick, will determine it in game time, that set off the wave of criticism of Strasbourg. If they had won game five, he would have been the manager this year. I know, but I'm telling you that that's what got him fired.

This podcast is presented by Wind Donation. If you need Windows and you want them quickly, there's a huge cost-savings benefit to getting them by Sunday. They'll pay all of your utility bills. Go to Windonation.com or call 86690 Nation and tell them I told you to call. If you know people that want to listen to the podcast that haven't figured it out, just have them go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. It's easy. It's an internet website. All they got to do.

if they don't understand how to download a podcast on iTunes, or they can't go to their iPhone and see the big icon that says podcasts on it. It's purple. And all you've got to do there is just click it and then search Kevin Sheehan Show. But there's a website too, the Kevin Sheeonshow.com. So those of you that have reached out to say, hey, you've talked to people, but they aren't listening because they don't know how to download it. Just tell them to go to the website.

Also, we've got a Facebook page up now, right, Aaron. and we've got an Instagram account. So follow us on Facebook, Instagram, me on Twitter at Kevin Sheehan, DC, the Sheehan Podcast on Twitter, at Tom Levero on Twitter as well. Does the Facebook page have peripherals? I don't think the Facebook page has peripherals, but there was an urgency to getting it up. Yes, there was. Let's get to the NFL power poll this week. Scott Van Pelt coming up soon, too.

Ringham, 1 to 5. It's time. Time for our weekly NFL PowerPole. All right, the weekly NFL PowerPole with Tommy on the show, means that Tommy right when he hears that intro, gets on his phone and starts looking at standings and trying to figure out his top five. That's the way he not only does it on the podcast,

it's the way he always did everything. Oh, we're talking about that right now? Let me get to my computer and come up with it. A couple of teams. If you insist on bringing that up, it's because this part always bores the heck out. I know it does. It does. And that's why I love doing it to bore you. Do you know that CBS Sports does a power pole every week? Every website does sports website. Do you know where the Redskins are

on this week's PowerPoll on CBSSports.com? Ninth. Seventh. Really? That's a little bit insane. Oh, you think? All right. I mean, they have... Who wrote it? You know who wrote it? Is that Pete Priscoe? It is. Is it really? Yeah, the guy that literally called the read option. and the wishbone. He had no idea what it was. There you go. There you go. He's got the Redskins ahead of the Saints, the Panthers, the Steelers, the Ravens, the Packers, the Vikings. It's got the Vikings down at 15th. Now, the ESPN power pole this week, and this just goes to show you that the first three weeks of the NFL season, nobody knows anything.

Everybody's got the Rams as a clear cut number one. But in the ESPN power rankings, the Redskins are 19. Yes. You know, so there you go. I don't really care because I only care about my power rankings. Okay. Which. You're not ready? Are you kidding me?

After embarrassing me on the podcast, you're not ready for this? I had them written down before. I had them right in front of me. I just can't seem to find them. I'm ready to go. I am ready to go. No, you're not. Yes, I am.

I'm ready to go because my number five team in this week, in this week's power pole are the Baltimore Ravens. I know that that seems super high. And I get a lot of this these days for whatever reason. Are you a Ravens fan? No, I'm not a Ravens fan. I've said this several times over the last couple of years. I respect the hell out of that organization.

That's a real NFL organization. Top to bottom. It's why they've always been in the hunt, and even though it's been three years since they've been to the playoffs. And I am the only person that seems to think that Joe Flacco is a decent quarterback. And I think he's going to have a career year. And I think the Ravens are going to win 11 games and they beat, they pummeled the Broncos on Sunday. And there are a lot of teams I could have put into the fifth spot.

Are you going to put Miami into the fifth spot? No. No. Even other 3 and 0. I'm not going to put the Saints into the fifth spot. They are terrible on defense. Baltimore is a well-rounded team. They can run the football.

They can throw the football deep this year. They've got a defense that's very good, and they're well-coached. The Ravens are my number five team. My number 14 in the poll this week. The Philadelphia Eagles. I'm not sold that the Eagles are what the Eagles were at the end of last year. I still think it's going to take them time. I think they're in a dangerous spot this week against Tennessee on the road

is a very, very short favorite. I think it's three and a half on the road at Tennessee. Tennessee. I will probably end up changing my view on the Eagles at some point because they are loaded in spots. They've got Tommy yesterday I was doing this NFC East follow-up conversation to the one we had on Tuesday and you look at the Eagles and what do they have? They may have the best defensive player in the division in Fletcher Cox. They may have the best defense overall. The best quarterback in the division, I don't even think that's debatable. No, it's not Carson Went. And they very likely have the best coaching staff in the division.

Think what you want about Doug Peterson. He's creative. He's aggressive. And then Jim Schwartz is their defensive coordinator. The Eagles are my number four team in this week's power pole. My number three team in the power pole are the Jacksonville Jaguars. And I know they lost last week to Tennessee. It was an odd spot.

It was a letdown spot. I should have given out Tennessee as a smell test pick last week. but the line wasn't even out on Friday because they weren't sure about the quarterback. I can't do what? You can't give winners all the time, Kevin. Well, I try to. I just like Jacksonville.

You thought I was going to hammer you, didn't you? I thought you were. I just like Jacksonville's team. They're so good defensively. I think they've got the best corner in football, the best cornerback tandem in football. They will struggle at times offensively, and they did against a good Tennessee team last week.

That's a game that is puzzling, that they lost, puzzling that they could only generate six points at home against Tennessee. But I just like this football team. And I think they are a contender, a Super Bowl contender, this year. My number two team are the Kansas City Chiefs. I don't know how you ignore it at this point. They're able to move the football at will against anybody. Mahomes looks like the real deal. They've got weapons everywhere. Tyree Kill, Hunt, all of them, Kelsey, the whole thing. And the only thing that will derail the chiefs, the only thing that will derail the chiefs, the only thing will be Andy Reed.

Andy Reed and his management of a game and the clock and the score, he'll probably F it up at some point down the road in the playoffs. The number one team, and this is a consensus number one team in the NFL right now, everywhere you look, it's the Rams. They've got the coach right now who schemes it up as well as anybody does. They've got a quarterback who all of a sudden with this coach looks like he is starting, to trend towards upper sort of top ten-ish type of quarterback. They've got Gurley, they've got the defense, they've got weapons everywhere.

The Rams are not just winning games. They're winning them easily. I know that the Cardinals aren't that great, and I think the Chargers are too banged up right now as we speak. Tonight's a big test for them. I can't wait to watch tonight's game. With that said, Minnesota's banged up going into this game. Sean McVeigh versus Kirk Cousins.

is. And you've got a Minnesota team that may not have Dalvin Cook. He wasn't there the other day. He may not be there tonight. They've got an offensive lineman missing. Everson Griffin now with these issues. He's out. Minnesota, they were my, yesterday, I sold them as a Super Bowl contender. I think that they are a playoff type of team, but they're missing a lot of what they had last year, a lot. What's your top five? Well, you know, I had an old cop reporter at the Easton Express in Easton, PA, once, teach me a lesson. And the lesson was, if you don't want to do something, just do it really badly for a while. And then they won't ask you anymore.

They'll stop asking you to do it. But you've been doing this badly for years, and I keep asking you. I know. I'm hoping it will sink in at some point. My number five team is the Carolina Panthers. Two and one, they have a great defense in terms of, you know, keeping. drives out of the end zone. And they've got Cam Newton as a quarterback who can lift the team.

I like the Carolina Panthers. And they just signed Eric Reed, by the way. Did they really? Yeah. Wow. That's remarkable. They signed Eric Reed. So we don't have to read about how he's being ostracized anymore on social media.

Number four, I'm going to say, the Philadelphia Eagles. And this is real close because I think that they'll wind up being like, one or two by the end of the season. But you can't put the Eagles ahead of the Jaguars at this point, I don't think, because the Jaguars are so formidable on defense. I mean, I think, like, if you made a list of the two teams you did, of the three teams you didn't want to play, it would be in this order. Number three, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Number two, it would be the Kansas City Chiefs, and they would be my number two team. Reed's going to mess it up at some point. I'm telling you that right now. And you're right, number one, the Los Angeles Rams. And I still love saying Los Angeles Rams. I do, too. Team that I would say keep an eye on here over the next few weeks are the New York Giants. They have a big game this weekend against the Saints.

I think they're going to be a smell test pick tomorrow. I just think the Giants have talent. And it's going to say it's a work in progress with the new coaching staff. I like them before the year. It didn't start off well in the first two games. They had a season-saving win, you could call it last week at Houston. I think the Giants are a team that's going to catch fire at some point here. They're going to be a tough out, week in and week out.

And I also like the Lions. I know that's another team year and year out. I tend to, for whatever reason, think is going to end up being better than they are. But they've got a running back now and Carry on Johnson. They've got a good running back situation with Lerat-Bunt and Carry-on Johnson and Theo Riddick. They've got playmakers on defense. They're still not there yet defensively. but I've always been a Matt Stafford fan,

and I think the Lions are, I look at them, and I don't see worse than an 8-and-8 team. I don't when I watch Detroit play. They got a big win Sunday night, and that win over New England. Do you have a team to keep an eye on? Yeah, the Chicago Bears. Yeah, that's a good one.

There you go. I like the Panthers, too. I considered the Panthers for my top five when I was doing all my research for that particular set. All your research? Your voluminous research? Yes. all the volumes and volumes of NFL PowerPole research.

It is funny how we used to do this segment on the show, and you would just look at me, and you'd start scrambling, and you'd be like, oh, we're doing that again this week. Well, I don't, you put my typical preparation into this segment that I do for all the rest of them. I know. We bring in Scott Van Pelt, who's with us here on this podcast every Thursday.

Tommy had a question for you. He said you tweeted out something that caught his eye a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, usually I don't pay much attention to your. tweets, but this one caught my eye because you were talking about singing to your son, this Sam Cook song, and what a great moment it is for you. And look, I mean, that's something I miss from my two kids. I used to love singing to them because they look at you at that moment. Like you can do anything.

Like you're the greatest person in the world and there's nothing you can't. do. Just tell me about what's the Sam Cooke song? It's a song called Good Times, and I have no idea why it even happened other than at one point when he was little, and I mean, he's still little. I mean, he's two and a half, but when he was, when he was a baby and he was upset, and he was, you know, crying and you're rocking your child to sleep. I have no idea why I started to sing good times, but I did, and it was instantaneous that he got quiet. And I, I guess it was weird. I mean, he's laying against my chest, and maybe he heard the noise, and he was listening, like, what the hell is that?

And so from that point on, any time he was upset, I would start to just sing good times, and he would always get calm. And I don't mean, like, five times out of ten or six times. I mean, ten times out of ten, he would instantly get calm. And the other night, he was sick. We had this, when you have little kids in your house, your house, like a petri, I'm sure you don't remember those days fondly, or Kevin remembering the boys being young. But, you know, one gets sick, everybody gets sick. So it was his turn to get sick.

And out of the blue, he just said, he asked me, said, Daddy, you sing good times and make me feel better. And I thought, how cool is that? Yes. He, you know, he's two and a half. And his thought is, if you sing that, I'll feel better. And so I did. And then I got my iPhone out and just played it on a loop. And he listened to it until he fell asleep.

And the neat thing about it is. is you'd like to hope that someday when I'm long gone, that he'll remember, like, he'll hear that song, and he'll equate it to me and him sitting in, you know, wherever, a chair, or laying down his bed and, you know, making him feel better. I think he probably will. I used to sing to my kids a Hoyd-Axton song that involved a dog, a cat, a drug dealer, and a murder in a Tucson bar.

And to this day, they've never forgotten that song. was the drug dealer and murderer part murderer part was it traumatic or not did you sing it? No it sounded very nice in the song it was a nice Hoyt Axton song Did you guys Scott and I don't know if this was a thing Tommy When your kids were young And I don't know if you and I have talked about this before

But the whole Mozart tie to You know a kid's mathematical part of his brain like if you play Mozart when they are either in the womb or in that first year of life, it's supposed to, there's like this connection to that child becoming a much better math student. Have you ever heard of that? Really? I know. If I missed the window, if so, I mean, and I mean, if the kids got no shot for math,

because they're part of my gene pool because I don't, you know. No, I'm not, but they really like to read. and daddy, daddy likes words, so maybe, maybe that's, maybe they'll follow on the footsteps. But I've missed the window anyway for the Mozart. If you're like Sam Cook, so I'll go, I'll take that. If anybody's listening, though, because I don't remember if it was a specific Mozart piece or if it was any Mozart, and I may have Mozart confused with Beethoven or Bach. I have no idea.

But if anybody knows what I'm talking about, just tweet it to me at Kevin C.N.D.C. Did you do it? I did not do it. Okay. I did not, but I remember people that did and swore by it. and I just thought it was one of those, you know. I remember... Are there kids mathematicians now, or are they just... I don't know.

Maybe they're... They may be really good engineers. I have no idea if it worked or not. I'm just curious if anybody else knows what I'm talking about, because you don't, and Tommy doesn't. And I'd actually like more information on it. But anyway, it is interesting. Scott, is you've been throughout your life

a much more sort of voracious reader than I. But your math skills were always rather... limited. And yet, and me, it was always the opposite, as you know. I wasn't a big reader except of, you know, newspapers and things like that, but I was a better math student. And that's why I don't, you know, I can't do the big words like you do so well. You just try your best with the big words. I try my best. I try my best. All right. What about Tiger Woods? Oh, God, it was so cool, man. It was so awesome. It was so, so great. And so, so much fun to see.

And it was, you know, it was cool. He came on with us on Sunday night and, um, on the show. And he and I have known each other for a long time. And, you know, it puts me in a different place where I, I don't apologize for how I felt. I felt happy for a guy who's my friend. If, I mean, if I can call him that, um, and I think I can. Uh, I just was thrilled for him to win again and thrilled for him that he's in a place

now, Kevin, where for so many years he can. kept the adulation and the people that wanted to high-five him or metaphorically hug him. He kept him at bay, and he didn't want to tap into that. And now it's undeniable how much people wanted to see him win and how much. And he said as much to me Sunday, look, they've helped me. They've lifted me what I would have not done as well. And he now is in such a different place as a 42-year-old guy who's been through some stuff, much of it of his own doing.

But he's so much more relatable because he's been through stuff and because he's got a bald spot and a fews been a bad back, right? I mean, he's just, there's still things about him that, or there are things, rather, I should say, that now make him relatable where he never was before. And yet he's still that guy that people just want to see beat Tiger Woods. And on Sunday he was Tiger Woods again. And, man, I'll tell you the really interesting thing is that, winning once for him, I really think is the blood and the water for a shark, like, all right, this is what it feels like, and I did it?

And I think you're going to see that, is he going to win 10 more times? I don't know. That seems like kind of a lot. But if he did, it wouldn't shock me. You know, a step too far, baby. You had me right up until that. I mean, you know, he wins once. That means, you know, he's going to have opportunities to win again. the field is so dramatically different from when we knew Tiger Woods years ago. And I just think it's much tougher to be able to continuously win against the field that you have in the tour today. That said, I agree with everything you said about Tiger and the way he's received. The reaction to his comeback has been a big part in the reception.

I know that's kind of confusing. I get it. Yeah, people have been happy for Tiger because he seems happy about people being happy for him. Yes, people are willing to, far more willing to give adulation and love when they feel like it's being consumed, right? Yes. And all I'd say, all I'd say, just to circle back, because I understand what you're saying. There's part of me that wondered is this was, I thought about this a lot, actually, Tommy. I thought of like, was this the summit?

Was this moment, like, putting your flag back on top of the hill and saying, all right, I did it. I got back and I did it. And knowing him, as I think I do, I came to the point where it's like, no, this is base camp. This is where he wants to set up shop and look at higher hills to climb. And all I'd ask is this, while winning will be difficult, sure, look how often this season he had opportunities to and he didn't. Whether it was Tampa early in the year, whether it was leading in the Open Championship on the back night on Sunday, whether it was being right there going toe to toe to toe with Brooks Kepka. when I say, say you give him five more years,

but give him to 47-48, and he wins twice a year. Would that be a lot? Yes, it would. I admit that. But it's not beyond, in my opinion, it's not beyond the possibility that it could happen, presuming that his back, which was so troublesome, is no longer an issue.

I think he's, I think he knows he can do it now, and as crazy as that is to say, for a guy who's 180 times, he needed to know that he could, and now he does. I'd be shocked, you know, assuming his back and his health is okay if he doesn't win two times a year over the next five years. That's what I mean. I mean, because really what, I know Tommy, Tommy has this thing about people like you and me

and the fan boyish thing going on with Tiger Woods. At least he knows Tiger. At least he's known him for years. Well, that's fine. But I'm just telling you, Tommy, as you watched. Tiger through the course of this year, and it became must watch if you were a Tiger Woods fan or a golf fan. I mean, you know, I told you this. When that tea time of 205, I think it was 205 on Sunday, which was right in the middle of the Redskins' first half, I had one of my two boys who were at home

say, I'm going to watch the golf. I agree with that. So, I mean, this is a massive thing, and he He was so close this year on so many. The story of him, Kevin, Hey, Scott, where's his final ranking? Where's his ranking right now? That's evidence of how hard it is that he came up short. But this has been a process. Do we know where his ranking is after Sunday?

Is it top 10 now? It was 21 going into it, and he won. 13. He's 13th. I didn't look. Aaron just said he's 13th. Where was he in January? He was 1100.

something this time last year. This is one of the most remarkable comeback stories, and he only won once, but he was so close. And I just think the competitor in him and everything else leads me to believe that not only is he going to win on tour, you know, one to two times a year, he's going to win majors, plural, moving forward. I can't believe you would still drive down that path after you weren't barred by it the last time you brought it up. about because when you and I did this, this was one of the things. When Tommy came back on the podcast for the first time, he had this list of things that he

was right about, you know, since we last did this show together. And of course, I had a little list of things that I was writing about. His list was much smaller than mine. And my list, by the way, started with. He owes me not only a dinner at the palm because the Redskins' name hasn't been changed, which he was convinced what happened by 2017, but that Tiger would come back. and be a factor, and he said, no, you said he would win. Well, now he has one.

No, you said he would win a major. Okay, fine. I did want to just, go ahead. I just, and again, I understand why there's pushback, but to Tommy, like, if you're, it's, like, look, again, he led on Sunday at the open, and he was a shot off Kepka's bumper on Sunday at the PGA. So it's not as if he didn't compete. I mean, he put himself in position repeatedly, and I think that there was a bit of a mental hurdle of, like, can I hold these guys off?

And so I don't think it's, I don't think it's outrageous at all to suggest that he'll be, that he'll be squarely in the mix. But I do agree that he's created. That's the interesting byproduct of this. He's created this race of Frankenstein, like Brooks Kepka, that look like that, right? That are animals in the gym. You there? in the gym. I'm here. They're in the gym being animals like he used to be, and he's created that Rory and Spieth and Thomas. These are all guys that grew up idolizing him, and now he's back in the mix,

all of which right or wrong, if nothing else, it undeniably makes this so much more interesting than it was without him. I just want to mention one thing for those that are listening that may not know, just to add and shed more light on it. When Scott got to the Golf Channel for his first television job. And he didn't go there for an on-air job. He went there for a producer job. And then within the first month was on-air hosting a show. Part of Scott's responsibility was to cover Tiger Woods as an amateur. And that's how Scott got to know Tiger as a very young person. And when Tiger won the 97 Masters, the first big sit-down interview was Scott and Tiger. I mean, that interview where you've got all that hair is still funny to watch. But it was a great interview. And then Scott and Tiger really

were. I don't know, and you don't have to comment on this, but in terms of the world of sports media, no one really has had the relationship with Tiger Woods over this long period of time, like Scott has, because it started when Tiger was that young. You know, Scott was the guy that was asked by Tiger to voice over, you know, all of the video, the Tiger Woods golf video game and all of that. So I just, for people that didn't know, I wanted to mention that. We met in 95 when he was a freshman at Stanford, and then he won the amateur in 96, and then he wanted to match just 97, and we sat down in 98, and this is the truth, Kevin. This is 100% accurate.

My career doesn't exist, if not for Tiger Woods. I'm not sitting at ESPN now doing what I'm doing without Tiger Woods. They wanted me to come there when Jimmy Roberts left to go to NBC, because they wanted a guy that had a relationship with Tiger, and mine was certainly as good as any. and in 2001, that's why ESPN hired me. And Tiger has repeatedly told me, without me, there's no you. And I'm like, you know what, buddy, that's true.

And that's okay with me. Thank you, thank you for coming along. The cream rises at the top, and you would eventually be there. But I do remember, I remember when Jimmy Robertson, you're like, ESPN wants me to come work for him. I'm like, and do you remember the first thing, though, that you covered at ESPN? Well, the very first thing I covered was the match play. in Kappalua, but the big story that happened like a month later was Dale Earnhardt died.

His death, yeah. Yeah, that was the, like, and they sent you down there. Yeah, well, I got a phone call. It was a Sunday afternoon, and then, like, it was the newsroom, and they said, we think Dale Earnhardt might have died in his crash, and I said out loud, that's really sad. What, how can I help you? And, like, where you've got to go cover it?

That's where I realize, oh, holy crap, I work for ESPN, and I'm like a reporter. So, yeah, I went to Daytona. That's, I didn't, I just sort of thought I was like a golf guy, which. up until that moment I was. There's a really good Thursday night NFL game tonight with the Rams and the Vikings, and we just did the segment that Tommy and I look forward

to so much every week. Our NFL power pole, which we both prepare for literally seconds before we do the segment. But there isn't anybody right now that doesn't have the Rams as their number one team. We're three weeks into the season. It's so

obvious, and we know it'll change more likely than not, that the Rams right now, or the best team in football. What else do we know through three weeks? This is what we always do. What do we know? What do you have a hunch? Give me a couple of hunches.

Let's see. I think my homes in Kansas City are going to be difficult to stop. That offense, I think, is real. But I think both the Rams and the Chiefs could lose this week. think Minnesota's, like, they just got crushed by Buffalo. So Minnesota is the, of course, they're the right side tonight, right? But I have a hunch that. I mean, Mahomes won't throw 80 touchdown passes, I don't think.

But, I mean, that offense is real. And the weapons that they have are going to be hard to stop. I have a hunch that the NFL is going to do something about this sacking of the quarterback. I mean, with Clay Matthews did the other day was a football play. Yeah, I agree with you. He had everybody in the Redskins locker room going, man, I don't have to tell you. Alex Smith said it's a football play.

Sweringer's like, man, that's crazy. I mean, these are guys that benefited from that call. Something has to happen with that because it's nonsense. You can't play football. It's tackle football. And you can't tackle the quarterback and be penalized for it. That's an absurd and outrageous rule. And then some people just threw their hands and go, well, that's the rule.

Well, all right. Well, then have fun with this. So I think there'll be some common sense. They're going to step back from that. I agree with you. Tommy disagrees. No, that's not what I said. I said this is the future.

And they may take a temporary step back, but somebody, they didn't just say this would be a good idea. Somebody in the NFL business office said, we need to change the business on the field. After the last two weeks, that same person is saying, this is a tackle football, this is a sport that involves tackling the quarterback, and we have to allow that to continue. Tell me one rule change they've made in the other direction. They haven't, but they're not going to change the rule. they're going to apply it differently. They're going to say...

Which you can do temporarily as you ease into it. You can do that permanently. No, they're not going to do it. Kevin, this sport is moving in one direction. I know. And it's not the direction that you want. But they can't take tackling the quarterback out of the game. Somebody in the business office has decided if they want a product years from now, they have to do that.

I'm saying that they're changing their mind. I agree, Scott. They're going to change their mind on this. If you're in the pocket and I get to you, you, and I sack you, that has to be allowed. Otherwise, the, otherwise the sport has fundamentally reached a place. It would be like saying you can't throw a slider or something. You have to be allowed to do your job.

Clay Matthews did his job. He got to the quarterback. And by the way, Tommy, and you know this, that's one of the most important jobs in the game because if you can get to the quarterback, you can stop the offense. If you can't, you can't. And if you're not allowed to do your job, And there's no, you cannot suspend gravity. You cannot stop your momentum.

Like, if your momentum carries you the quarterback and you tackle them, you have to be allowed to do that. Like you have to be. Otherwise, the sport itself, I mean, it truly reaches a place where it changes in a way that I think for them hurts them. Well, I think they think they have to make those changes to survive. I think there are certain changes like the Hitsun defenseless receivers, and I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison to what we saw Clay Matthews do to Alex Smith last week. That's not the same. That's not a hit on a defenseless player where the player is going to get

injured for life based on what happened on that play. It's far different than a receiver completely exposed looking back to a quarterback with a DB closing in and hitting him. It's a different thing. They've legislated that piece out. This one, they want to legislate out. They want the quarterbacks to stay healthy because the quarterbacks apparently are the guys that are drawing the eyeballs. But sacking a quarterback is a visceral moment as a football fan. You root for that. You want to see that. They cannot legislate sacking the quarterback out of the game. They can't. They won't. At some point, they will because they're going to, again, do you think they thought they were enthusiastic about this? Why, what do you think the motivation was for this? Well, it's the same

thing. It's safety driven. And why is that? Well, because there are lawsuits from veteran players from former players. No, not what passed the lawsuits. The lawsuits are history. Because they want football to continue to be a sport that mothers let kids play. They're talking about future perception. Okay. Well, I'm telling you, the future perception of the NFL without the sacking of a quarterback is not going to be,

is not going to be advantageous for the league. I think they've determined, particularly with legalized gambling, that their core group, that their core group isn't going to go away. So you really like, you see, the, The Vikings Rams thing, isn't it sort of split the action tonight? I was thinking about giving the... Yeah, I think so. I just, it feels like a spot where Minnesota will play like Minnesota. That's what, you know, play like the Minnesota we thought they were before they got

house by Buffalo. They're hurting, no. They're hurting, no. They got defensive players out, offensive players out. I'm going to the Rams are really, the Rams are really good. Like McVeigh, you know, I mean, he's obviously what, you know, what it was suggested around town he might be. He's excellent, and that offense is silly.

I think Peters and Talib are both out for them, though, so that hurts them on the defensive side. Look, nobody will look like this for 16 weeks. It never happens, but they're really, really good. That much is obvious. Did I tell you I'm going to Penn State, Ohio State Saturday night? Are you? Yeah. Going up there Saturday. That environment is supposed to be spectacular.

I will absolutely have Penn State in my winter segment, just on general. That line is short. That will be a smell test pick as well. All right. Thanks for doing this. Thank you, Scott. And the phone was... The phone was excellent this week.

Yeah, I came to a special spot. I found a place in town that has a good signal. I'm in my car. I came here just... Actually, I had a business to tend to, but I realized it was a good signal. So I sat right here just so that I would have a good signal. Well, we appreciate it. As always, thank you.

Thanks, boy. Have a great day. You too. Scott Van Pelt, everybody who joins us here on this podcast every Thursday. So when do you go into the football game? I'm actually going to go up tomorrow night. Okay. We're going up tomorrow night.

We've got, there are a lot of people that we know that also have kids at Penn State that are going up. And then there's some people here that are Penn State alums that I know that are going up anyway. But it is, you know, it's probably at this point the biggest game of the season. Wouldn't you say, Aaron? It's up there. It's definitely up there. You had, no, I actually probably definitely. Right now through the first five weeks, this is probably your big, I mean, it's your one.

What other top 10 matchup have we had? I don't think we, well, Oregon, Stanford were both top ten. They were both top ten? Oregon was top ten for that game last week? I think they were. Wasn't it seven and eight? I could be wrong about that. Tomorrow. By the way, can I say what I'm doing? Are you going to ask me, what are you doing this weekend, Tommy? I was just going to say, what are you doing? I know you're working with Andy, hopefully, this weekend, but what else are you doing? Yeah, and I'm on with Andy Saturday morning. I want a six, seven, the fan. But Saturday night, I'm doing one of the cool things I've ever done. At the Strathmore,

Have you ever been there? I have. It's actually a really nice venue. I've never been there before. Who's there Saturday? Saturday night, they're showing one of the great American films of all time on the waterfront. They're showing on the waterfront.

That was the picture of the year, right? In 1955. I don't think it won the Oscar, because I think Marty won the Oscar. Marty did win the Oscar. And you know how I know that? From the movie quiz show. From the movie quiz show. But they're having a, there was a great musical.

score for that movie done by Leonard Bernstein and it's the only movie he ever did that for. So they're going to have the National... Is Hallelujah a part of that? The National No. No. Leonard Bernstein, not Leonard Cohen. Oh, Leonard Cohen. That's my fault. God. I got Mike Cohen's and Bernstein's

mixed up. My fault. And the National Philharmonic is going to play the score during the movie live. Oh, wow. And it's one of it, have you ever seen on the waterfront? I have not. Of course not. No, it's 1955. It's one of the great American films. You do this to me all the

but it is. Could have been a contend. Yes. Aaron knows it. Have you watched Game of Thrones? Well, why would I do that? I'm not a child. Tommy. Seriously. I'm not a child. I haven't seen on the waterfront. Who did it star? Marlon Brando, Carl Malden,

Rod Steiger, Lee J. Cobb. Great, great move. Again, and I, one of the thing, look, I always talk about the gifts I had in this business, and I considered them gifts when I get great opportunities. The guy who wrote the screenplay for that was Bud Scholberg, one of great American writers of the 20th century. I got to know him because he was a big boxing guy, and we covered boxing together.

I'd spend time with him in Vegas. And that's like for you saying, I don't know, that you hung out with Tiger Woods. No, that wouldn't be it. That wouldn't be it. I don't know what it would be. I don't know what it would be either. But me being able to hang out with Bud Scholberg is a gift. and he was a guy who wrote on the waterfront.

So that's what I'm doing Saturday night. That sounds like a great Saturday night. I will be in State College, PA, watching Ohio State Penn State, and tomorrow lots of football discussion and lots of picks. The smell test on me last week was 9-3-1 and 4-0 on the NFL. I will just say that tonight's game, Rams minus 7 against the Vikings. It's not a smell test pick because the action is sort of split, but I do agree with Scott.

that the perception with the Vikings losing to the bills and the Rams being untouchable is that the Vikings won't win this game. And if I were forced to play it, I would play the Vikings plus the seven tonight. With both those cornerbacks out, that smells like a Kirk Cousins 40020-yard game today. It's possible. Both the cornerbacks are out. I think Talib is definitely out, obviously. Peters is believed to be out. Okay, I knew Talib was out. I wasn't sure about Peters. All right.

It's also a chance to see the Rams. I've not seen any of their games yet. And this, boy, second straight week. The ratings for these Thursday night games are going to be really, really strong here for two weeks. Last week was Jets Browns and the number was up. Imagine what we get tonight. This was so much fun again today. It always is.

It really is. It is so much fun. Tommy and I are so happy to be doing this together, or at least I am. Sometimes he is. Despite the long drive. Thank you very much. Okay, boss. Enjoy the weekend. I'm back tomorrow. Lots of football discussion, even though the Redskins aren't playing lots of sports picks, college, football, et cetera, and a couple of guests as well.

Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to all of you. Enjoy the day.