The Kevin Sheehan Show - Daniels' D-Day

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

Kevin and Thom with plenty on tonight's draft along with the increasing chances that Jayden Daniels will be Washington's pick at #2 overall. Plenty on other possibilities late in the first round along with reaction to the team's announcement that Darrell Green's #28 jersey will be retired next season.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. With the second pick, the Washington Redskins Select. Draft Day, it's finally here. We're just a few hours away, roughly six hours away, as we are recording the podcast.

Tommy's here. I am here. This show, as always, is presented by Window Nation. call them at 86690 Nation or head to windonation.com. This from Johnny, yesterday was a hard listen because of your voice. I hope you feel better, but I had to fast forward through your parts and get to your guest's parts. Thanks, Johnny. I didn't think my voice was that bad.

I do have allergies. I don't think of cold going on. But I also had four guys. guests on the show yesterday. That was a record, I believe. I had Al Koken on the show. Al's great. I had Ralph Vacciano from Fox Sports on the show. I had Jay Gruden on the show, and I had Scott McBrion on the show. So they did the heavy lifting. So I'm expecting you to do the same today. Are you up for it? Oh, I don't know, Kevin. I've got the Emerald Isle on my mind today. I know you do.

When do you leave for Ireland? Leaving for Ireland tomorrow at 8.40 at night at Dallas. And it's an overnight, so we get into Ireland. I don't know when we get in an island. You fly into Dublin? We get there. We hit the ground running. You fly into Dublin?

Yeah, flying to Dublin, then renting a car and driving to Galway. Are you flying up front, or are you in coach? coach, but I mean, I'm flying in a row of three with three people who I know. That's good. That's good. Did you get... I mean, it's not like I'm going to be sitting with a stranger. Did you get that, you know, main cabin extra, where you've got extra leg room, the main cabin plus? What, Kevin, I don't need extra leg room. I don't have any legs. That's true. You don't have... Your legs are the shortest legs I've ever seen.

They are the shortest legs. Sometimes I look at them at night, and I say, you don't have... say, my God, I'm like, I'm like, I should have like, I'm disabled. I have a knee, I have an ankle, and a little skin, and that's it. Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it? So what do you? But yet, I have a long torso. I mean, when I sit in cars, a lot of times I hit the roof. That's, you are oddly shaped.

I am. That would be an accurate description of your body type. Oddly shaped. Well, look, you're flying with people you know. What's that flight? I'm going to guess, is it seven hours? Something like that? No, I don't think it's that long.

Okay. I don't think it's that long to Ireland. I forget what it is. You know, I didn't work out the details of it. So I'm just kind of going along for the ride. Well, it's faster going that way than it will be coming home. Yes, it will. Yes, it will.

And I know that from all my times in Vegas. Yeah. Yeah, Vegas. I remember saying, well, at least we've got the wind to our backs on the way home. It actually, for us, East Coasters, worked out better that, you know, you were super excited and you could deal with the longer flight heading out because you were pumped up, you were fired up, you're having cocktails, you're, you know, you're giddy for getting there. and then when you were completely exhausted and broke, it was time to get home and get home quickly. So yes. Yes, and you would get home quicker on the way west to east.

Right. I just looked it up. Your flight time. Where are you flying out of? Dulles. Well, it doesn't matter. Seven hours and five minutes, it looks like the flight is. Is it really that long?

Yeah. Have you been to Ireland? I have never been to Ireland. It is at the top of my list of places that I haven't been that I want to go. I can't believe I haven't been to Ireland, but I have not been to Ireland. And I want to go badly. Kara's been a couple of times, including last year with her kind of half, not half or step, but kind of a sister person in her life. She doesn't really have a true blood sister, but her father's second marriage,

that daughter, they went to celebrate her birthday in Ireland last spring. bring, maybe a year ago, and I've never been, never. You've been, though, right? A couple of times. No, I've never been to Ireland. Wait a minute. I thought you had been. Yeah, I've been to Italy. I've never been to Spain, but I've never been to Ireland. It's so funny because Scott just got back from Italy, Van Pelt, and it's so funny because he has spent a lot of time in a lot of different places for work. but when it comes to travel personally, he has never really done much out of his favorite places, Florida, Bethany Beach, and other places like that. And so remember, it was about a year ago. It was the Masters a year ago when his house caught on fire.

You remember me telling you the story. Oh, yeah. And it was two days before we were going to leave. his wife, my wife, the two of us, we were going to go to France for a week. And he balked. He's like, I don't really want to do this trip. And it's like, it doesn't really matter what you want to do. Your wife wants to do it.

And so we're going to do it. And I said, by the way, you are going to love it. You'll get back and you'll say, I'm so glad we did that. Anyway, we had to cancel that trip because obviously his house burnt down. He's still not back in that house. He'll be back in that house, I think, hopefully by June or July. Man, fuck. I'm looking over the itinerary, and one of the places we're stopping is Thor, Bally Bally Boney,

Boney, Boney, Tower. Oh, what? Thor Bally Yates Tower, which is a filming location for John Wayne's the Quiet. Man. One of the things I asked, my son, who was put in the itinerary, is I want to see the Quiet Man location. I mean, one filming location they did, it's one of my favorite movies. Basically, what I know about Ireland is from watching The Quiet Man and the James Joyce I had had to read in college, then that's pretty much it. Well, the reason I, when you mentioned Italy is that Scott literally got back yesterday, he went to

Italy for a week with his family and his mother. And he was kind of kicking and screaming before that trip. And he called me yesterday right when he got back. And he said, one of the best trips I've ever taken. I'm like, to me, Italy's right near the top. And you love Italy too. But you love Spain and I love Spain also. I'd much prefer to go to either one of those places and even France than the UK. Not that I don't like the UK, but it's just okay, I guess. But I want to go to Ireland so badly. And so that will be on the list here at some point in the near future. We'll have a great trip. One of the places, one last thing, we're staying overnight in a castle, Dronoan Castle. Wow. That's where we're sleeping one night. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I'm sure

you will find a pub or seven to sit down and have a cold beer, a Guinness or a few. There are apparently lots of Sheeans in Ireland. Who knew? But Kara was in county, in Cork, Ireland, which is where my relatives harken back to. And she said they wanted to. We're going to be in Cork for a couple hours. So there's apparently a bar named Sheeans, and they went in there and they had a great time. I'm sure I'm related to some of those people.

Yeah. I got to find that bar then. You got to find that bar, and maybe you'll write my cell phone number in the bathroom on the wall. That would be great. Thanks. Make sure you include the country code. So the draft is here, and I did something right before I called you to record. the show today. A week ago, I did not watch the press conference. I didn't listen to the press

conference that you attended. I was actually on a flight heading down to Florida to spend some days with my father and my son. And so I watched that press conference. I just, I didn't watch it with the intention of saying something about you, which I'm going to say here in a moment. But let me just begin with. This was a press conference last week. with Adam Peters and Lance Newmark, and this was the first time I watched it. I just read a lot of the quotes, you know. I didn't go back and watch it. I don't know what made me go watch it today, but there were seven minutes at the beginning

of him thanking everybody in the organization. Oh, my God. And let me just point out, being the cynic that I am, is that people praised him for going out of its way to do that. And all I thought was that seven minutes he didn't have to answer any questions. Oh, no doubt. Of course. It was great strategy on his part.

Who does that? Yes, it was. I mean, for those that don't know and just saw the quotes from the press conference, Adam Peters opened up last week's press conference, seven minutes of thanking every single person in the organization, at least on the football side. He was thanking people that work in the kitchen, not even the cooks or the chefs, people who work in the kitchen. It's very nice to do that. But it was very like, this is going to sound cynical.

It was too congratulatory for me. Let's win some games, all right, before we start thanking everybody in the organization. I understand what he's trying to do. You know, this has been an organization that pretty much has been thoughtful. thank less forever. Yes. But there was... Did not feel good about being in the building.

That's right. From anyone in power. But I thought the same thing as it kept going on. I'm like, oh, I see what he's doing here. Now, you know, ultimately they let everybody, I'm assuming, ask questions who wanted to ask questions. So everybody had two questions they could ask if they wanted to. Right, so it probably just added seven minutes to the affair. Say again?

It really didn't get in the way. No. But Tommy's question was, according to Adam Peters, that's a good question. You love when people say that. Remember this? I used to say that all the time? Oh, my God. Well, I think he said it to me a couple of times, too, so don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. But yes. Tommy asked the following question, and I'll play it at the end of this podcast.

It'll be a tag on of sound. Tommy asked if, when he was in San Francisco, if he had watched the quarterbacks, and if he had had a preference on the quarterbacks that were going to be in the draft this year, when he was watching them during the season when he was in San Francisco, and if so, has he changed his mind since? And he really did. He said, that's a really good question. And then he thought about it.

And he said, well, I didn't have a preference. We had a quarterback in San Francisco. And, oh, by the way, they were never going to be in the running for a quarterback because they had one of the best records in football. So they were going to be at the back end of the draft. But Tommy, here's the part. And I'm wondering if you thought of this. Don't we think that Adam Peters at some point during the season in San Francisco thought this was going to be the year? that he would become a general manager.

He's been talked about as one of the guys that was going to be the next general manager and maybe the number one target for multiple teams who would be looking for a general manager. I'm not saying that that means he should have focused on his next job before he got his next job, but I bet somewhere along the line he thought there was a chance he'd be working in a place that might have a high draft choice with no quarterback, and he started to pay attention. I think so. Look, I have maintained all along, based on guys I know over the years,

who have eventually become general manager, okay? And you're right. He was seen as a general manager in waiting at some point. I think guys like that when they go to sleep at night, they dream of who would coach your team and who would play for their team. They dream up their whole organization how they would have it set up. No doubt. They have that in their head and maybe even written down in a tablet somewhere that they never show anybody.

Before they ever take a job. So yeah, I think he had an idea. Yeah, I think if you have ambition, that's true. Now, not everybody has ambition. Ben Johnson apparently wasn't super ambitious here in the offseason. So maybe Ben Johnson in his free time. wasn't sketching out his coaching staff org chart. But a guy like Adam Peters, I would think, was.

Yeah. But I actually thought one of the more interesting answers in addition to the one that he gave you, which he's given before, but he almost emphasized it even more so than he did in the past, is just the difference in the evaluation of the quarterback position. And he compared it to defensive end. And he said, you know, and he kind of joked and he said, all due respect to defensive ends.

But, you know, you watch the tape. You get to know the person. But there's so many, so many more variables in the evaluation of a quarterback because there's so much more asked and so much more required. And so it's just a much harder thing to do. But that's what they've been doing. And we will find out tonight who they select. Let me just mention real quickly at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code. Kevin D.C. They'll give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. Right now, Jaden Daniels is minus 901 to be the second pick in the draft. That is a massive favorite. It's the biggest favorite that he's been. You know, what is that based on? Ben and I were talking about this on the radio show this morning. It's probably based on every single mock draft. mocking Jaden Daniels pretty much number two to Washington overall.

Everybody who's mocked Jaden Daniels to Washington, they've all said the exact same thing. We're pretty sure, but we're not entirely sure, because they're not talking, as in the organization. But Jaden Daniels minus 901, a massive favorite to go number two at MyBooky. Drake May is plus 600, and J.J. McCarthy is plus 1100. MyBooky's got all of your draft betting needs, all the basketball, all the hockey as well.

Go to MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. All right, let's get to some draft talk in earnest. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Caleb Jackson is his running back, and Daniels pulls and texts it himself. He's got the sideline. That was the night of November 12, 2023. this past season, Jaden Daniels against Florida in a shootout 52 to 35, accounted for 606 total yards and five touchdowns

and became the first quarterback in college football history to have at least 350 yards passing and at least 200 yards rushing in a game. He had 372 passing with three touchdowns, and he rushed on just 12 carries for two. 234 yards and two touchdowns, including that 85-yard touchdown run. LSU won that night. They ended up going 10 and 3 on the regular season. This segment brought to you by Wind Donation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name for a free in-home estimate. Two things will happen when you get that free in-home estimate. Number one is it'll be free and you'll have a quote that you can work with, and Window Nation won't pressure you, they won't bother you,

they'll give you time to make that decision. Number two is you'll find out how many windows you actually need replaced. Window Nation is not going to come into your house and say, every window before they even look. They will go room by room, and they will tell you which windows are too old or aren't functioning well enough, and they need to be replaced, and then other windows perhaps are fine to keep. Call them at 86690 Nation, go to windonation.com, get that no risk free in-home quote and get access to a deal that lasts until the end of the month, which is buy two, get two free with no limit plus no payments and no interest for two full years.

Mention my name when you go to windonation.com or you call them. They will take good care of you. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. All right. So I'm going to ask you first, is there a quarterback? And I know you're not the college football fan that I am or some of the listeners are, but you've watched enough and you've read enough as you're preparing for your trip to Ireland, which comes just 24 hours after the first round of the draft.

Do you have a quarterback that you prefer? Well, I have a quarterback I prefer, and then I have a quarterback in the later rounds that I'm intrigued of. Okay. But entreat with. The quarterback I prefer is your guy, Jane Daniels. Look, I think when a guy performs like that in college, you have to figure out reasons not to pick him, not reasons to pick him. he's given you the reasons you need that you should want him. You have to figure out why you don't want him at that point.

And I mean, I don't think we know enough about, we'll never know about those variables that could be a problem, I think, until he's on the roster and in camp and in games. Do you know that on the schedule this year, Washington has a game at New Orleans. Imagine if they open at New Orleans with Jaden Daniels a quarterback and Tommy predicts

shock and awe. Wouldn't that be wild though if... We should go. Yeah, well, that's a trip we don't mind making. Yeah. So, well, we'll wait on your sleeper pick, all right, your sleeper

later round quarterback that you like. We'll tease that that it's coming up here in a bit. So most of you know who have listened to the podcast, probably only need to have listened to the podcast on a semi-regular basis to know I've wanted Jaden Daniels for a while now. I just was a big fan of watching him as a college football player. I think he was this past season one of the best and most versatile college college football. quarterbacks I've ever seen play in college, certainly in a long, long time. I still can't believe that at the beginning of the season, he was not a first round projected quarterback. He was a day two quarterback. And I remember saying early in September, this guy, there's just no chance that he's

not picked in the first round. And then I think it was after the Auburn game, I was like, there's no chance that this guy isn't going to be a top half of the first round pick. And then definitely after the Bama game, which he got hurt in and they lost 42 to 28, that was the Monday that I came in here and said, give him the Heisman. It's over. He's the best player in college football and this guy's going to be a top five pick. But it goes beyond that. I watched him all in 2022. One of the things that I'm always suspicious about when I hear people talk about, you know, how they've, you know, watched a lot of this and watched a lot of that. And with Jaden Daniels, anybody who tells me that they think he's had one good season,

I'm very suspicious that they actually have paid attention to anything because that's not true. He had a very good freshman year, in fact, at Arizona State. But his 22 season at LSU started slowly. In fact, Tommy, I had somebody tell me a story yesterday. somebody who knows the LSU staff pretty well, and mentioned to me that it all changed for him at LSU when they got blown out by Tennessee last year in 2022. I remember the game.

Tennessee was ranked super high. That was the Henden Hooker Tennessee team. They went into Death Valley, and they absolutely annihilated LSU. And LSU had lost the season opener when they missed the extra point against Florida State. and then that was their second loss. But my friend told me, he said, the word was that Brian Kelly was frustrated with Jaden because he was being too conservative.

They had emphasized, you know, they didn't want a lot of turnovers, you know, and he had protected the football all year. He had not thrown an interception at all in the first like five or six games. And then he finally threw an interception against Tennessee. and apparently after that moment, he turned into a much more, you know, risk-taking quarterback, and he improved significantly. It wasn't that he played poorly leading up to that, but he played differently. And that's when you paid attention. Like, they beat Florida.

He threw for like 400 yards in that game. They beat Bama in overtime. He absolutely carried them down the stretch when they were. He beat Bama in that great game in November of 2022. I think it was 32, 31 in overtime. And they were in the SEC championship game against Georgia. Now, he did get banged up in that game. He had thrown for 200 plus yards.

But Georgia was, you know, Georgia was unstoppable. But I'll tell you what, LSU actually moved the football against Georgia's defense. They got beat, I think it was 52 to 30, something like that. But he played very well, the second. in half of 2022, and it just carried over into this year where he had, you know, I think it's one of the greatest college football quarterback seasons I've ever seen. Certainly versatile college quarterback seasons. I started thinking about recently the seasons that were comparable to it, like Cam Newton's season at Auburn. Really the one that is super, super comparable, is Marcus Mariotas, 2014 season, his senior

season at Oregon. He was incredible as a college quarterback, as a dual threat college quarterback. He didn't rush for as many yards as Jaden did, about 400 yards less, but he had 42 touchdowns, four picks. Jaden had 40 touchdowns, four picks. The Joe Burrough season in 2019 at LSU, that's an all-time great passing season. I mean, there are numbers there that may never be broken. But as far as the versatility, the dual threat nature of Daniel's season, it stands out to me is one of the most exciting I've ever seen. And I think it's important for people to understand too. And you can say this about Caleb Williams and to maybe a slightly lesser degree about Drake May, but it was definitely true for LSU, a team that certainly had capability to win more than 10

games and contend for a national championship with the quarterback they had and the offense they had. But they were just so bad on defense that he had to do so much more than a lot of quarterbacks that have had his kind of seasons. Like Marcus Mariotta's defense was much better. Joe Burroughs' defense, much better. Cam Newton's defense at Auburn, much better. LSU won 20 games over two seasons. They were 12 and 4 in the SEC. but if not for one of the worst Power 5 defenses in the country, I think LSU would have made the playoff this year and they would have competed for a national championship.

It would have been wild if they had had just a bad defense and we had seen Michigan LSU in the final. You know, J.J. McCarthy against Jaden Daniels. They lost three games this year, Tommy. They averaged giving up. 47.3 points per game. This is a guy that every time he took the field, He knew that if they didn't score, the other team was going to get another seven.

So they couldn't punt. And I think that speaks to a lot of some of the risks that he took as a runner. Florida this year had a bad defense, and we played the highlight coming in. And they had Graham Mertz, a quarterback. They won five games. LSU without Jaden Daniels would have won half the number of games they won. Now, he had excellent talent around him on offense. two receivers who are both going to get drafted, one super high tonight,

the other probably late first round tonight, Neighbors and Brian Thomas Jr. He had one of the best tight ends in the country, Mason Taylor, Jason Taylor's son, who will be one of the first tight ends taken in next year's draft. He had a couple of linemen who were going to get drafted next year, including his starting left tackle, who will be a first rounder next year. So understood when some of you have said, yeah, but look at what he had around him, compared to, say, Drake May. I get it. He had players around him.

And I think what that allowed him to show offensively are two facets about Daniels that I think was another part of watching him that I was like, this guy's an NFL quarterback. He's got the playmaking ability, all right? He was the best in the sport last year, one of the best of all time. But two, because they did have great talent, he was a terrific distribution. of the football, one of the best in the country last year. I think it's important to note that he did both of those things, which is exactly what you want in an NFL quarterback.

You want the guy that can get the ball out on time to the other playmakers on their team. You want the guy that when the play breaks down, whether it's because it wasn't blocked well or coverage is too tight, he makes everything right by going off schedule and making a big play. I think he's the best and most efficient pocket passer in the draft. His mechanics are flawless. Cooley talked about that in his film breakdown of Daniels. I think there are plenty of examples of him throwing with anticipation,

throwing into tight windows, throwing over the middle of the field, which is a pushback for many people, the intermediate throw. Maybe not as many as there are with other quarterbacks, but that's because of something I've pointed out in the past, which is LSU just didn't face that many third downs. They faced the fewest third downs of any team in the country. They were just too productive on first and second down. And third downs typically is when you see the intermediate across the middle throws a lot of the time.

I personally think he fits into any type of offense. I don't think you have to create a dual threat Lamar Jackson type of offense in Baltimore with Greg Roman. Now, it would be ridiculous if you didn't include some quarterback runs and designed runs and option style runs. But I wouldn't be doing the things that they did with Lamar Jackson during the early portion of his career where they were running quarterback counter and quarterback power and quarterback sweep.

You know, some of the same stuff they did with Cam Newton. You don't need to do that with Jaden Daniels. He's a more advanced passer coming into college than Lamar Jackson. Jackson was. I still think most of his rushing yardage during his career will come off scrambles. It'll come off called pass plays, not designed runs or option runs. He can throw it, guys. He can throw the football. It may not be, as Cooley pointed out, the same arm strength as McCarthy or may, but he's got more than enough arm strength, and he's got great touch. there are a lot of those people out there that are scared about some of his advanced numbers,

you know, things like pressure to sack percentage, the intermediate throws that I talked about. I've gone through a lot of that in the past. Let me just say, if you watch this dude in every play, he's not a croucher, he's not a ducker, he's not a sitting duck under pressure, he's not the guy that takes his eyes off down the field and sees where the pressure is coming from. That's not him. He's a guy who's looking to make a play, and at the college level, in part,

because his team could not afford to punt the football, he did take some, you know, sacks trying to make plays. Now, his yards lost per sack was the lowest of any of the quarterbacks that we're talking about. In terms of the intermediate throws, there's enough on tape to see that he can do it. But again, I would say, well, third down and intermediate. it. They didn't have a lot of it at LSU this year because they were getting major yards on

first and second down. Now, is he perfect? No. The two things that I think are for me, none of them are red flags, but one of them is a concern, and it's the one that more people have talked about than, or it's the concern that more have talked about than any other. And that's his frame. It's his frame. He's skinny up top. You know, I had Joe Thaisman on today. He was on radio with me, and he said he's six three, he's almost six, four and two, ten. I'm like, yeah, I get it, but he's skinny. When you watch him, he's skinny up top. And he took too many hits, you know.

And look, in the NFL, you're going to take enough hits in the pocket. He doesn't need to, you know, put himself at risk in the open field against NFL linebackers and safeties, you know, looking to take his head off. His decision making is going to have to be better. But again, I would chalk up part of the issue. the last two years to the fact that, you know, if you were watching more than just the film or highlights, the game context is important. Like, if you were watching their games, you knew you're like, they can't pun here. If they punt here, they're going to give up seven, and then they're going to be down 10.

It's like they had to score almost on every possession. So I think he was forced into taking more risks. But, yeah, he's skinny up top. He certainly looked that way to me. And, you know, I don't, you know, that's one of those things where I hope that they're, you know, medical analytics people or the analytics people can look at the body type and can compare it to, you know, others and the way he plays. Now, he hasn't been seriously injured. He missed some time last year in a couple of games. He got knocked out quickly in the Missouri game.

He got knocked out literally in the Alabama game. And the other thing is just the stuff that we don't know. You know, we don't know about Jaden Daniels or J.J. McCarthy or Drake May personally. There doesn't seem to be a red flag anywhere on Jaden Daniels. From my standpoint, there isn't. The one thing, Tommy, I've noticed this because I've watched his interviews. I've gone back and looked at locker room, you know, game ball speeches. He's super reserved.

He's very quiet. He's very introverted. He's not Drake May or J.J. McCarthy. Those guys are vocal leaders. That's not him. I don't know if it matters or not. I don't know if it's an indication of something that Adam Peters and Lance Newmark will be concerned about. But yeah, go ahead. You remember Jason Campbell. That was one of the knocks on Jason Campbell. Yeah.

They could barely hear him sometimes. in the huddle, the players would say. Yeah. I mean, those are the kinds of things we don't know. I'm not going to have any issue at all. I promise you if they take May or I'll mention McCarthy here in a moment. If they take May, I get it. Those of you that like May and there are plenty of you that have pushed back on the Daniels

and you like May a lot more, I think that there are a lot of reasons to like May. I do. But when I watched May this year in real time, and then I watched more after the season, I just came away consistently not as impressed with him as I was with Daniels. But I do see what many of you see in him. He's a big, strapping athlete. He can really throw the football. He can really create. He's very athletic. And he's younger. And he's younger. And he's younger.

A couple years. That's the, I don't know why, but the whole age thing, I just don't care at that position. I don't think that that would be a factor for me at all unless, unless like, you know, scouts and analytics people convinced me that a year and a half difference was somehow, you know, or two-year difference was somehow massive at that position. I mean, if you told me right now that I'm going to get fewer years on the back. back end of a great career from Jaden Daniels because he started a little bit late. I'll take that. I'll be fine with that.

Okay, but here's the thing, though. If Drake May is very impressive now, what will he be in two years? Whereas Jane Daniels, is this the ceiling? I don't think so. Drake May's played a lot of football the last two years. It's not like you haven't. they're drafting Tray Lance, you know, a guy that just started one season and played at a lower level. Drake May played in the ACC, played for North Carolina, and he started for two years playing, what, 14 games, twice, 28 games?

There's plenty of football and plenty of college football experience for all of these guys that are coming out. I mean, that's one thing that I don't think anybody has to worry about this year. These guys got plenty of starts and plenty of snaps. I mean, Drake May, for his career, started, let me just pull it up here. He started 29 games at Carolina. 28 games, 28 games, it looks like. So, yeah, I, I, I, I, get what everybody sees in May. And I also see what Cooley, you know, explained. He's got some

big time flaws mechanically as a pocket passer. Now, can they be coached up? Maybe they can be. But it kind of went part and parcel to some of the easy throws that he missed, some of the inaccuracies that he had. The bad decision part, if you watch Carolina in some of their games, that was, you know, hard to miss. There were some. head-scratching decisions that May made. But again, you know, he's athletic. He can throw it. Maybe all of these things can be coached up in a big way.

Like Daniels, too, the athleticism and playmaking ability for May, for me, almost makes the floor higher. Like people have talked about low floors, high ceilings, whatever. I think if you're an athlete and you're a playmaker, I think your floor is a little bit higher. You can always put a guy like that out under the field. J.J. McCarthy, I'll just say it until I'm blue in the face. I don't get it. I certainly don't get it at number two overall. If he's Kirk Cousins in terms of the intangibles, Brock Purdy in terms of the intangibles, if he's perfectly made for a Shanahan-style system, I can see that. I can definitely see that. I can see the throws he made when he actually got to throw the football.

I can see the athleticism, too. But they're just, wasn't enough there, and I can't get out of my head the fact that in a massive game in November in Happy Valley, the coach never let him throw a pass in the second half of a one-score game. Now, you can talk about, well, you know, they didn't feel like they had to. They had a great defense. The other team didn't have a good quarterback playing field position. The object was to win the game. And Tommy, they won a lot with J.J. McCarthy at the helm. But did they win because of him, not more times than not, in my opinion. But...

Look, the one thing I said when I would talk about Jane Daniels, when we started this, I said, you have to look for reasons not to pick him. Yeah. Because there's so much evidence out there that would make you excited. With J.J. McCarthy, you have to look for reasons to pick him. because what's out there, it's not nearly impressive. So you have to look for reasons. Well, why would I pick this guy number two?

You know, because it certainly isn't because of what I saw in watching Michigan in games. You could say, though, what I know about J.J. McCarthy is he's a winner. He's a big-time winner. He barely ever lost a game. Bo was a winner. Yeah, no, I understand. I understand that. That is a, that's, that's not the right comp, but it is from the standpoint of that doesn't

really mean much. I recognize that's not the right comp. Yeah, no, no, you're right. I want to also make really clear, I do like a lot of what I see in J.J. McCarthy. I just, it's more about the idea that he would be the second pick in the draft. That just seems out of proportion for. what even the people who are big J.J. McCarthy fans say they see in him. They see the next, you know, Kirk Cousins with mobility. I'm just never going to take Kirk Cousins number two in a

draft. I might take him 16 or 17, you know, knowing what I know. Now, the intangibles, there's a lot there that apparently are off the charts, his natural leadership ability. So, you know, if J.J. McCarthy he turns into just a, you know, an Alex Smith kind of solid quarterback winning teams, then I'll say great, you know, and I could see something like that, I think. But I wouldn't go back and draft Alex Smith with the first pick in the draft again, the way they did in 2004, five, knowing what I know now. Neither would I. But it doesn't mean that I don't think he can play

and that there isn't a chance that everybody's right in terms of his intangibles will carry the day and he'll be super smart and he'll be the first one in, the last to leave. And by the way, he's got a big arm. He has a legit NFL arm. And he's an athlete too. That's the thing about these four quarterbacks, Caleb included. There isn't one, you know, non-athletic quarterback in the group.

They all have tremendous playmaking. ability. You know, Tommy, the odds favor that whomever they pick tonight won't be, won't be the long-term answer. That's just the way this draft works and the quarterback position works. More likely than not, defeatist going in. Whomever they pick, it won't be answer that they're looking for. But it's also true that the best chance to find that long-term answer is in the draft and early in the draft. So there's that too.

That's your conundrum. That's the dilemma. So I'm looking forward to tonight. I'm glad it's finally here. So tell me about your sleeper quarterback. Okay. Well, I don't want to make a big deal. about this, because I don't know much about college football.

I saw him play once or twice, and then I remember the big deal that was made about him not playing, and that's Jordan Travis from Florida State. There was such a big deal about him not being able to play and what that meant for Florida State. That would be intriguing to me. I would want to know more about that guy going as maybe a second-day pick. What do you think? Yeah, I had somebody on the show the other day that said,

had he not broken his leg against North Alabama, and he had been in the playoff, that we'd be talking about him in kind of the same way we're talking about maybe Bo Nix. I think Michael Pennix has risen. I think justifiably so. He's my third favorite quarterback after Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels. I think it's going to be really interesting to see where Pennix Jr. goes tonight. But yeah, I think there are people that agree with you on Jordan Travis.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's going to be more likely than not five taken in the first round and maybe six. And Jordan Travis, I think some people believe certainly could be a late night two or early day three pick. there are a couple of quarterbacks that are actually interesting. I mean, people love Spencer Rattler, you know, from South Carolina, Oklahoma before that. But man, the horror stories that were out there about Rattler at Oklahoma and just what kind of a teammate he was. But apparently he has matured. I mean, I think everything you read speaks to everybody understanding what he was a couple of years ago. And people have said that he's really matured as a human being. And a lot of people kind of compare him to a Baker Mayfield. There's a guy that I kind of like, but this is a total day three quarterback, but I've just liked him in college football every stop he's been. And he's had an up and down career.

But I remember when I first saw him at USC a few years ago, I'm like, that's a pro quarterback. Keaton Slovis, I think I've mentioned him before. He finished up this year at BYU, had a year at Pitt. Pitt for sure, right? I don't think there was anything between USC and Pitt and was part of kind of a merry go-round of quarterbacks there for a few years, but started a few years at USC, had a really good season. I forget what year that was. It may have been the COVID year. But I think he's always, to me, every time I've watched him just kind of looked like the prototypical NFL quarterback. And what made me think of him even more is that the combine, I think he ran 4-4. And everybody was like, what? because he doesn't look like that on a football field.

I had somebody else tell me recently, who was this who told me that they think Bo Nix is the best quarterback in the draft? I do think as we sit here at 2-something PM on the day of the draft, the day of the first round of the draft, I do think all signs point to Daniels. Probably be wrong. Maybe Washington's so tightly. Maybe they're keeping it from everybody else for some reason,

and it's going to be J.J. McCarthy or Drake May. But I think it's going to be Jaden Daniels. I think the reason everybody has a mock to Washington is that there seems to be more of a consensus that Daniels is the second best quarterback in the draft. And some people like him as the best quarterback in the draft. I've said all along, I think he's closer to Caleb Williams than Drake May or Michael Pennix Jr. for me is to Daniels,

as the number three quarterback. But looking forward to tonight. We've had some of these nights, you know, number two in 2012. Oh, yeah. Big night. Yeah. Number two in 2020. Big night.

And they didn't go that well. No, they didn't. No. Hopefully tonight goes better. All right. Daryl Green is going to be the next Washington Redskin, who has his jersey retired. We'll get to that right after these words

from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy. I would imagine Shelley's would be a good spot to watch the draft tonight. Oh, absolutely. Eight high-definition TVs, spread all around,

two large rooms, beautifully decorated rooms with these soft couches and soft easy chairs, great tables, great menu, great appetite, And speaking of appetizers, that's one of the things that we're going to have available to those people who come to cigars and curve-ball.

Yes, we will. At Shelley's Backroom on Monday, May 6th for $100 donation, you get free cigars, and you get appetizers. And they have great appetizers at Shelley's backroom on 1331 F Street Northwest. That event, I just want to say One of the highlights of the event is the auction that we have, the live auction, which I mentioned last podcast, and we've got some new items coming in. I want to mention some of them what they are.

An autographed jersey of Clinton Porter's from the University of Miami. Wow. Yes. An autographed jersey of Pierre Garcone with the Redskins. Wow, Pierre giving you an autographed jersey. That's nice. So we've got some great materials coming, and the auction is a big part of it of fun. The place is kind of wild, and it's just, it's a great scene, and part of the reason it's a great scene is because Shelly's is a great host.

It's a great place to have any event like this. If you want to find out more, go to shelley's backroom.com. How did you get the Pierre Garsohn signed jersey? Oh, I've got friends. Remember that moment with him on the air when he created a headline? We had Pierre booked as a regular guest in 20, I don't know, 2013, maybe, 2014. I forget what year it was. And he was a paid regular guest to come on with us on Tuesdays on the show.

And he, I'm actually forgetting, maybe you remember, he made major headlines with something that he said to us. Do you remember what it was? About the quarterback. Was it about RG3? Yeah. So it was something about RG3 that made headlines. And he got in trouble for that.

In fact, I got a call and I'm like, listen to it. We didn't ask him. He just offered it up because it really was the way it went. But for the rest of the year, every single time he was on with us, it was literally like impossible to get him. to answer something in more than four or five words. I mean, it was painful. It was so painful.

It got to the point. I think we did end up having a conversation with him to say, look, what happened earlier, we're not out to get you, we're not out to create headlines, because we never were. And you can talk normally. I don't think you're going to get yourself into trouble anymore.

I guess maybe I had to promise that we wouldn't ask him about, Griffin anymore. Are you sure it was 2013? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think it was 2013. And you know, let's let's me buy some history here, controversial history

about RG3 and Pierre Garcone in 2012. You know, with Robert Griffin as the starting quarterback that year, they went 9 and 6. Okay, they won one

game with with Cousins. With Kirk Cousin. Right? Yep. Okay. But, you know, for a while, they were what? They were three and six at one point, right?

And then they won seven straight. Seven in a row? That's correct. Right? Yes. They started winning. They won the opener. They shocked an all game of Griffin.

But Pierre Garcone had a big day in that opening game. Then he got hurt. Correct. and then they didn't really do well until he came back. I don't think they won a game without him. Yes. So maybe we need to revisit 2012 and figure out who was really responsible for that success. Pierre, no doubt, was a huge part of that.

He got injured in the opener. It was on that touchdown, the long touchdown, wasn't it? Yeah. And then he missed a bunch of games in a row. and then when he came back, I think it was, you know, I'm pulling up. That went on their wedding streak. So he played in one game that they lost that year, one game, that was it. He played in a game against Atlanta that they lost at home.

Okay. Yeah, I think. And Seattle. And the year after that, or the next year, when he set the team record for receptions, right? Did he? I think he did. Okay. I had like 118 or 111 receptions or something like that.

Here it is. I got it. 113 receptions in 2013. I think that's still a team record. You might be right. I don't know that record offhand. I'm looking it up right now to see if that is true. It sounds like it should be true.

I don't remember any other receivers. Well, it has to... Catch it 100 balls here. Yeah. Well, it has to be a player from this era, obviously. Single season receiving. Yeah, 113 catches. Art Monk had 106 and 84 when he set the NFL record for receptions.

And then Santana had 93 in 2010. It's Pierre Art 1-2. The only 100-plus catch seasons are arts, which was an outlier, a major outlawry. He set the NFL record in 84. Yes, he did. And then Pierre's 113. You're right in 2013. And then it was, then it's Santana, Art in 85. Laverneous Coles after 90 catches wanted to get traded. Terry's season in 2020, where he had 87 catches. Jordan Reed is at 7, Monk at 8, Moss at 9. Cooney's 2008 season puts him in the top 10. He had 83 receptions at year. So there you go. What is Gary?

What about Jersey? He will be up for auction at Shelley. What was Gary Clark's best year? 79 catches in 89, Gary Clark. Okay. What about Henry Ellard? Didn't he have a big season for us?

74 catches, Henry Ellard. Okay. Real quickly, before we get to Daryl Green, you know, there is the rest of the first round tonight, and with the draft capital that Washington has, I think many people believe there's a chance Washington could go back into the first round and snag either a tackle or a pass rusher. And I think there's a decent chance at that.

I mean, in a lot of the mock drafts that you've seen, Washington's traded back into the first round. I've seen them trade into as high as number 19 overall with the Rams to take Mims to tackle. I've seen them trade with the Ravens at 30. I saw them in a mock trade with the Packers at 25. You know, if they go into the first round because there's a player that they love and there's a team willing to do it for a cost that they think is okay, there are going to be hopefully some options. Me personally, and I spent more time looking at the tackles and past rushers in particular

the last couple of days, I think this draft for tackle. the real studs are going to be off the board. There are a couple of players that have been mocked to Washington, guys like Jordan Morgan from Arizona, late Tyler Geithen, Oklahoma. I've seen Mims from Georgia mocked. The guy that I like, but he's not a tackle. But the guy that I think is absolutely going to be a big time starting offensive lineman in the league is Graham Barton from Duke.

grew up in Nashville, played high school ball in Nashville. I just think everybody believes he's moving inside, and I think that makes sense. But other than that, I think the opportunity to trade back into the first round would be to take a pass rusher. Now, one of my favorite players in the draft is the UCLA edge rusher, Leatu, Leitu. Now, the problem with him, he's had some neck injuries, and people are concerned about that. but I still think he'll be gone. But Chop Robinson from Penn State, who grew up in Montgomery County, went to Quince Orchard, QO, started at Maryland and then transferred to Penn State. He has kind of the quickest twitch first step as a pass rusher, maybe in the draft.

And when they get the quarterback at two for Cliff Kingsbury, don't you think Dan Quinn's going to want his Micah Parsons? So I wouldn't be surprised that if they trade back into the end of the first round or somewhere in the first round with all their draft capital, that they'll have a better chance to get a truly impactful ready-to-play pass rusher. Other than that, I think if they don't see that, they can stay at 36 and 40 and take the linemen that are perhaps a little bit more raw, a little bit younger after the big studs go. but I do like Chop Robinson a lot.

I also on day two really like this guy, Austin Booker from Kansas a lot. He is the prototypical 2024 pass rusher, long, lanky, Deniel Hunter-like, and he exploded this year at Kansas. And he could be one of those second, late second, third round picks. I'd be excited to think that.

This is where you and I differ, and I differ with most people in the draft. Whether they trade up or whether they stay where they are, okay. They need offensive linemen, okay? They need offensive linemen. I don't care if they're a stud. Best available offensive linemen, that's who I want. They're going to get some linemen. That's available tackle.

That's who they take. They're going to draft some linemen. There's no doubt about that. And some of these guys that I'm talking about, they're probably going to take. It's just with some of the guys after the early guys, whether it's Fisano or Alt or a couple of the others, you know, there is a certain level of, are they going to be ready now or are they going to be ready later? But this team doesn't have to win now. And so if they see a guy like Mims or Morgan and they say, look, we don't have to. to start them this year. We can start

Cornelius Lucas. We can start Andrew Wiley, but we'll have them in 2025, or we can play them a little bit here and there. They're going to, Tommy, they are going to take no less than two to three offensive linemen in this draft

with their nine picks. And I think of their top 100, let's just say it's six, it could end up being five if they trade up into the first round. Two of the five or six are going to be offensive of Wyman. As it should be. Yeah. No, they need

Look, Jaden Daniels had one of the best left tackles in the country. And so he's yeah, he's incredibly athletic, incredibly elusive. With that said, you've got to protect young quarterbacks.

I think they're going to draft a wide receiver too on these first two nights. All right. Darrell Green's going in to, not to, I was about to say the ring of fame. Darrell Green's the next jersey that Washington is going to retire. Your thoughts? Well, they're getting it right.

You know, it's not that hard to have figured out whose jerseys should be retired, at least the first half dozen or so. You know, Gerald Green, John Reagan's after this, Art Monk, you know, that's the list that's left. after that, you can have your debates here and there as to who should or who shouldn't. But that's the short list. So they're getting it right with Darrell Green. Yeah, we've done this before in the show, but I created kind of the retired jerseys list for me. Like, to me, the no debate, I mean, you know, if they ever came to me and said,

give me the list of the jerseys that absolutely have to be retired and they go in before anybody else. It's nine, Sunny, 28 Daryl Green, 33 Sammy Ball already retired, 42 Charlie Taylor, 44 John Riggins, 49 Bobby Mitchell already retired, 81 Art Monk. That's my list of don't even come with anybody else before you get those seven in. Those seven, those jerseys have to be retired. And the order, they got Sunny right, which, you know, I think several of, of us, including the two of us on this show, made sure that the people that didn't know anything about the organization out there for the last year and a half, two years, especially after

the Sean Taylor debacle, were very vocal in letting them know, Sunny has to be next. And they got it done and they did it right last year. Give them some credit after they butchered the Sean Taylor, they did the sunny thing the right way. I guess with the exception of the Frank Herzog with, but we helped them out with that one too. But Darrell Green going in next is fine. I wish Charlie Taylor were already in. Up next, for me, it's either Charlie or Rigo.

One of those two is next. Art Monk can wait, and he'll get that 81 retired. But I think it's Charlie Taylor or Riggins next year, whichever one is fine. And then the debatable list for me is Thysman's 7, Sean Taylor's 21, it's already retired, but that's a special extenuating circumstance. Ken Houston's 27, Larry Brown's 43, Chris Hamburger's 55, Jacoby's 66, Russ Grimm's 68, and Sam Huff's 70. That's the list that I would put on just on the outside.

That's the list I would have just on the outside of the top seven. See, I don't know how you could put, I love Sam, but he's put the team for a couple, yeah, with a couple years. I mean, I don't know how you could retire his jersey. It's the last of that group that I had, and I felt the same way, but yeah, but that's why it's debatable to me. It's on the debatable. This speaks to something that I suggested that the new ownership do, and I'm sure they haven't done it yet, but to avoid so many of the screw-ups that they've had in the previous couple of years, not the new ownership, the old ownership, was I suggested a historical committee made up of media members and former players

where this kind of stuff can be run past. Right. To determine they don't make the screw-ups that they did. Because there's not institutional knowledge in that building. Well, there may be now, Mitchell Railway, has been a lifelong fan. Josh Harris has been a lifelong fan. So, you know, there are more people now in the organization than before.

Look, Dan was never really the fan or had the knowledge of the team as a fan that many of you do, that, you know, I do and others in the media do. Tommy does. It's just Dan was not that kind of a fan. He just never was. but I think Mitchell Rails was. I think Mitch and his brother were. I think they were hardcore fans of the team.

So there's probably much more institutional knowledge in the organization now. But I'm thrilled that Daryl Green's jersey is next. And he truly is one of the most memorable players in franchise history for so many reasons. Obviously a two-time Super Bowl winner, 20 years same organization. but really one of the more spectacular players in that fastest player in franchise history, one of the fastest players in the history of the NFL. But iconic plays. His first game, Monday Night Football 83 against the Cowboys,

and he runs Dorset down from behind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The punt return at Soldier Field in Chicago, the year they went to the Super Bowl and beat Denver, where he's grabbing his rib cage. because he tore his rib cage on the return. I mean, Joe Thysman said it to me this morning, but I had already said it with Denton earlier,

and you and I've talked about this, if he had been a punt returner, he'd be one of the greatest punt returners in the history of the game. Yeah. Every time he was put back there, it was like if it didn't score, it was a big return, or it was a big return that was called back because of a penalty.

First time he touched the ball in a preseason game against the Falcons was. a punt return, he returned for a touchdown in the summer of 83. Great, great player. Great player. So many, so many memorable plays. I remember the pick against Detroit and overtime that he returned for a touchdown, had a pick in the NFC title game against Detroit that he returned,

had a pick against the Rams when they beat him 51 to 7 that he returned for a touchdown. he was just, if the ball was in his hands, man, look out. Like whatever you thought of Sean Taylor and Sean Taylor was a threat to score every time he had the ball in his hands too. But Darrell Green did it with just incredible elusiveness and speed. Thysman said to me this morning, he would have had 20 more career picks if he had had good hands. Apparently you did not have the best of hands.

something that Joe says he's admitted many times. Daryl's admitted, but incredible player. That's going to be a great day at the stadium. It will. It will. Yes. It'll happen, I'm sure, sometime, hopefully on a nice day in a game that matters, unlike last year, when it was potentially very cold, which it wasn't, in a game that didn't matter. But still, they handled the sunny thing well, compared to Sean Taylor anyway. Yes.

Do you have anything else that you'd like to share on this draft day? I got nothing else for you, boss. I'll be watching tonight like everybody else will. And then I won't be watching anymore. And you won't be calling in next week. No, I'll be drinking Guinness. Good for you. Have a great trip.

Yep, go do that. Have a great trip, Tommy. Everybody enjoy the draft. I will be back tomorrow. I'll have a guest or two on to review what they did tonight. Barnhart, hunting against the wind, out of his own end zone. Back to his own 48 yard line, but he's got some room. He might have pulled a hamstring on his way into the end zone.

When he went across there, he looked like he was hurt. Be tired because he's had to chase Willie Gault all over the field. Now he's returning kicks. You talked about an impact player. He might have heard it when he had to jump over somebody. Well, he jumps right there. That is a hurdle. And then when he starts there, now just before he goes in,

he looks like he's holding his side. Look, he looked like he just got a cramp in his stomach. He's holding his side with his left hand. Allie Hodges' extra point is good at the Redskins. For the first time today, take the lead over the first. Bears as the medical staff is looking at Darrell Green over on the red skin bench.