The Kevin Sheehan Show - Dan's Mug Is The Face

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

Kevin and Thom today with the ongoing Snyder saga, why people still root for this team and much more on the state of Dan Snyder's ownership of the team. Also, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, and 25 years ago tonight....Tyson's bite.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. Sorry about no pod yesterday.

Had some things to take care of. The last week, Tommy, I am, I think I figured out a solution to my back issues. I brought in a new chair right after the radio show today. And I think it's really helpful. so far. Anybody with lower back issues, chairs mean everything. The wrong chair can really F you up. I've told you the story about getting Tiger Woods the right chair, right? Yes, yes, you did. Yes, you did. You're his back counselor. Only a hundred times, I think I've told the story. So I won't really bore anybody with it again. But just needless to say, Tiger Woods needed a chair that was

better for his back and I found him one in that sparked a 30 minute conversation off air about our lower back surgeries. I wanted to start the show with an email from Frank who emailed us through the website because I think this kind of all ties together with everything that's going on, including Tommy's column today, which was brilliant in the Washington Times. But Frank emailed me and I was going to read this. to you yesterday. I read it over the weekend. He said, I listen to you guys all the time. Kevin specifically, I identify with much of his diminished interest in the Redskins after being such a passionate fan my whole life as he's been. What's next for us, Kevin? Is there a chance that will

ever feel the same way again? Do we change if Snyder leaves? Are we back on board if he's removed or sells. Do we jump back in on a winning season with or without Snyder? Is the name forever in the way of feeling the same again? Is it just time to admit that it's over? I'm really not into predicting like you seem to be, but I'm concerned that it's over. That was a bit of a schizophrenic email from Frank. He's all over the place. Maybe we jump back in with a winning season, although I think he's just asking me these questions to which I would say to him, I don't know what the answers are. These are legitimate questions.

I know. I find it very interesting. The people that say they are still interested, why? I mean, I'm not suggesting that there isn't a chance that I can't ever be back into it and be passionate about it. I doubt very much, very much, that I will ever have the same feelings about this franchise that I had for, you know, the significant majority of my life up until a few years ago. I think part of that would have maybe diminished just because of age and, you know,

finding other things to do. But I don't know. There are people that die and have themselves buried in a burgundy and gold casket, you know, with a picture of Sonny Jurgensen or Charlie Taylor. I mean, that happens all the time. I don't think that that would have ever been me or will ever be me, but I don't know what the answer is other than to say, I find it very difficult to believe that I'll ever be,

if my fandom was at an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10 for much of my life, I find it very hard to believe that I'll ever be above a 6 or a 7 again. and I'm a long way from a six and a seven right now. That's kind of sad. Is it sad to you? Is that depressing to you or is that just the reality of the situation that you've come to live with? That's a really good question because I think if this had been a very successful team were somewhat successful and didn't have the ownership drain of 22 years.

And the only really horrific thing, and I say horrific, I know it's not horrific for everybody, but it's horrific for many of us. And again, I understand the reasons, but, you know, I question the reasons, but I understand why it ultimately happened. The name would have been a massive game changer. Losing the name, it's something that I talked to you about for many years, that there is an attachment to the whole thing. you know and part of the whole thing is the name and the fight song and the colors and the uniforms and

you know it's just a it's it's something that we were very passionately and emotionally tied to so that may have changed things even if we hadn't been and that may have been a jarring change but i think it's been a gradual build to where we are so it's not sad it sort of was predictable and it's been happening gradually over a long period of time. Maybe accelerated Tommy in the last two years with everything that's been going on with, you know, one investigation after another, one lawsuit after another, one congressional inquiry after another, and then obviously the name, et cetera. But I think it's not sad because it's been a gradual build. But there is some emotion into it really sucks that this was such a big part of the lives of so many, and it isn't anymore.

But I don't, I think, yeah, go ahead. I think part of it is there's a feeling that that makes it sad, if you're a fan, is you absolutely believe it didn't have to be this way. A hundred percent right. That's 100 percent right. That's the thing. It didn't have to happen. Okay? It's not like, except for the name, it's not like circumstances overtook the team that took them down this path.

It didn't have to happen. It's self-destructive, not outside forces. Right. So, I mean, I think that's really hard if I was a fan to live with, and very frustrating, I would think. I think you, and this is why I've said, and I think you agree with me, and there's people who just blindly think this, one 10-win season is going to fix it. You know, that's not going to happen. You need consistency. You need proof of change.

That's what you need. Yeah, it's not, you know, I told you that I was asked by, you know, people in the organization six, seven, eight months ago, whatever it was now. You know, there was this feeling with some people in the organization that a lot of people that listen to this podcast, a lot of people that listen to the radio show, kind of identify with how I feel. And, you know, a simple question was asked, what do we have to do to get you back in the same way that you used to be back? And I said, I don't know if you can anymore. I think the name really was the nail in the coffin. and maybe if the name we're still here with everything that continues to happen with the owner, just being resigned to as long as he owns the team, it's going to be harder and harder.

He's pushed so many away. You know, with respect to the name, I don't know if we've ever asked each other this question. I wonder whether or not if someone other than Snyder, a good owner, a well-respected and maybe even well-liked owner. I wonder even in the wake of the events of May of 2020, George Floyd, I wonder if FedEx and Bank of America and PepsiCo, if they would have come as fast and hard at Snyder for the name if the owner was a different person. I think they would have. I think they would have. I think we forget that even when Edward Bennett Williams owned this team, the name was under attack. It wasn't under national media attack, but media was different than it is now.

I think the name would always be a constant issue, no matter who the owner was. And I think those events that you speak of would have resulted in the same outcome. I don't know for sure. It's just my opinion. It certainly made it easier for Fred Smith, one of the minority shareholders who couldn't stand Dan and was having all these issues with Dan and sponsors that looked at him and said, we're doing business with a pretty bad guy. It made it much easier to go after him. Look, I think I can't answer the question other than to say, I doubt very much that my interest will ever approach. what it was at its height for, you know, the better part of 35 to 40 years.

I think it is interesting those that feel like they're still really into this thing because I would ask them why. I do think one of the reasons why is that people love football. And I love football too. And it's more fun being into a sport that you love when you have a team. team that you're really emotionally invested in. It's more fun that way. Then these big games that are played during the course of the season, occasionally you have a massive rooting interest. And you know, you have something to look forward to every week your team's game rather than

just football. I love football. I look forward to football every weekend. I can't wait for football season to start right now. But I don't think that the only thing I can predict is that I don't think I'll ever be at an 11 again. On a scale of 1 to 10, I don't think I could ever get myself to that point. Even if Snyder sells or is forced out, the name will always be, I think it feels this way today. It feels very distant. It doesn't feel like my team. I've expressed. the way I feel about it many times since February 2nd, which is it feels very much like a different organization, an expansion team almost.

And as I've said from the jump, they really should be targeting a much younger fan base that hasn't made up their mind on their favorite team yet, or has a lot more time to change their mind on where they are right now and might be okay with new colors and new name and new stuff. even though most young people I talk to that are fans of the team feel the same way, their interest is much diminished because of Snyder more than anything else. But I don't know, Frank, that's a good email.

And I think, again, I think for people that still have interest, like significant interest and are still into it, I think it's more interesting to find out why from them, Because that's a minority of what used to be the truly passionate fans. Let's talk about team identity, then, take it further. You said you love football, and I think, you know, I think more fans love football today than ever before. And the NFL in particular.

Let me be very clear about that, okay? I wonder if fan identity with particular teams, except for maybe a handful, has diminished from what it used to be because of fantasy football and gambling. No doubt. But that's been coming for years now. Yes, it has. Yeah. So it's never going to be.

The Washington football team identity would have probably diminished, like a lot of other teams, have in the league just based on those events. Yes, I think that's true. But you know what, Tommy? I can only speak from sort of personal observation. I have three boys, as you know, they have lots of friends. And my two younger boys, my middle son and my youngest son, are massive sports fans and all of their friends, massive sports fans. And I think I've observed, I observe a lot of gambling in this age group. There's no doubt about that. Too much of it. And I'm not out there encouraging it, parents that are listening. As much as I have had a gambling Jones for much of my adult life,

I understand the pitfalls. And I tell all of these young people, be careful. Moderation, everything done in moderation, please. But I have noticed, even though what we just said, we believe to be true. And we've been talking about, you know, the impacts of fantasy football and gambling on younger fans who really are more into their fantasy football team than an actual team. That's sort of the way we've always described it. I do see the majority of their friends and their friend group, all of whom are big sports fans, still hardcore fans of teams. You know, I mean, I'm just thinking there are still several of them that are really in to the Redskins or, you know, they're not thrilled with the name, most of them,

but they're into the football team. And a lot of the questions when they're over are about the football team, not about a fantasy football draft, but about, you know, whether or not Chase Young's going to be ready to go in the opener. Right. You know, some of them are really big caps fans, for sure. Some of them are huge Nats fans. A lot of them are big time college, you know, a lot of Maryland basketball fans around here, especially with my son's groups of friends. So lots of stuff about that. So I say I agreed with you, but I don't think I should agree so quickly. I think that it's definitely there is a contingent, there's a percentage of younger people

who are much more into their fantasy football team on a Sunday afternoon than they are for, you know, rooting for a specific team than there used to be. but I don't think it's completely been taken over by that. And I would imagine that if you live in Wisconsin, the Green Bay Packers are still more important to you than your fantasy football team, that if you're a Cowboys fan or a Ravens fan or... Well, I'll get, yeah. Yes.

I think there's a half a dozen teams like that. Yeah. I mean, there are certainly... By the way, they can multitask. They can be into both. They can be massively into their fantasy football team and then be rooting really hard for their favorite team to win. But when I was a fan, when I was a Jets fan, there was no divided loyalty. There was only one thing.

Well, you didn't have fantasy football. You didn't have these other options. Right. That's what I'm saying. I didn't have that. Right. Yeah. So my passion probably then would have been greater. I would have been greater than I think if I was the same age rooting for a team now.

Yeah. I do love football, though, and I love football season, and I love the rhythm of football season, and part of the rhythm of the football season used to be planning, even before I got into this business, planning around the Redskins schedule and around their games and making sure that, you know, didn't miss one. I mean, and I didn't. I mean, this is the one thing that, you know, over the course of my lifetime, everybody in my life understood, No, we can't schedule that at that time because they have a 4 o'clock game. And then obviously professionally for many years now, it's been a must.

And I will still, and by the way, I love watching their games and then talking about their games. But the hurt of them losing or the thrill of them winning isn't anywhere near what it was. And I don't think it ever will be. I think B.B. King said it best, right? The thrill is gone. Was that B.B. King? Yes, it was. All right. I trust you on that. Although, Tommy, you know what? What if they were this year, I'm looking at their schedule?

This is where, you know, I get a little bit carried away. What if, you know, looking at their schedule, they go into the final week of the season, all right? Their 17th game, they played 16 games, and they are 10 and 16. and so are the cowboys, and they're playing for first place at FedEx Field. I would... Of course, there's no measure of this, but it would never be what it would have been without the big ball of shit that's gotten in the way. I know.

It will be exciting. It will be, I mean, in the moment, and we live in the moment these days, it will seem like the biggest thing on Earth. What if they brought Coach Joe back? What if they brought Coach Joe back again? Seriously. Like I'm just thinking about what would make me immediately feel different than I feel now. You know, Ron Rivera after the 2021 season retired, he's, you know, moving on.

And Dan went to the one go-to move he's got left. He went to Joe, made him team president and head coach once again. and Joe came in. There's no way I could root against him, obviously, and it'd be hard for me not to be super passionate in one person succeeding. And, you know, so. Yeah, but wouldn't you feel at that point, wouldn't you look at Coach Joe and say, what are you doing? What are you doing with this guy? Why do you stick by this guy? Why would you be in business with this guy?

Well, he would never be again. I think there's football fans who would believe that. I think there's football fans who are still amazed when Gibbs comes out with some kind of show of support for Snyder, for Dan Snyder. Yeah, it could be a show of, it could be a convenient show of support. It could be a self-serving show of support. We know what Dan helps him out with on an annual basis. forget the Joe example. What about, what if they had, you know, the first pick in the draft next year?

And they, you know, and they took C.J. Stroud, the quarterback from Ohio State, who was at that point a consensus number one coming off a Heisman trophy win, a national championship season, a record-breaking season. And it was one of these quarterbacks that were Can't Miss. I wonder how that would change people. opinions because I think in addition to the fantasy football thing, I do think younger people in particular

get into players and root for certain players that they love. Yeah, I could see that. Again, I think you're talking about rising from the ooze. You're talking about trying to stand up from the slime.

And I think it's capable to stand up cover with slime, but it's not not as, it's not as It's not the same as standing up and being clean. Stand up from the slime, beer in one hand, pom-pom in the other. It doesn't look the same, but you're right there with everybody. So, you know, I personally think that the conversation, even though I had it again this morning with Neil on radio,

but the back and forth between Snyder and his attorneys and Congress, I think it's growing to the point where the interest, level is waning. Like it's, I mean, look, I'll net it out as far as I'm concerned. I think what's clear here is Dan is going to do everything he can to run the clock out. And there's a better chance than not that he'll be successful. I think it's just the opposite. I think that basically on Capitol Hill, it's starting to snowball. A senator, not a congressman, a senator from Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal issued a statement this morning demanding that Roger Goodell publicly released the best Wilkinson results. Okay?

So in other words, the Senate side is starting to jump on board with this. No, no, no, no, no, no. He's pissed off too many people now. No. It's not going away. It's not diminishing. That's not what I said. It's growing.

That's not what I said. I said with respect to appearing in a deposition. in front of the House Oversight and Reform Committee. If I didn't say that, that's what I meant. The back and forth with the subpoena that Carol Maloney promised to serve Dan, which hasn't been served, Dan or his attorney, and might be problematic in serving. But even if they do serve it, the next steps are his attorneys

filing a lawsuit in federal court challenging this subpoena. And that process could take months and go right through November and the elections in November. So I think... Or it could take weeks. Not from what I've been told. Not on attorneys filing a lawsuit in federal court challenging the subpoena. It might take weeks to get them the subpoena.

And then they'll file in that lawsuit in federal court challenging the subpoena if they choose to do that. I get that. I understand that. But the committee has power. Oh, they can arrest them for contempt. He can sue them and they can arrest him for contempt. Well, not if he accepts the subpoena. They can't arrest him for contempt.

That's true. That's true. So the process, what they're doing is they are going, you know, four corners here. Phil Ford, Walter Davis, Mitch Cupchack, the whole group. They're four corner, John Custer. You need any other players? Tommy Lagarde from Dean Smith's 1970s teams. They're going four corners first on the subpoena. then eventually, to avoid contempt, they'll probably figure out a way to accept the subpoena,

and then they'll fight it. And that could take months in federal court. And the NFL is going to live with one of its owners on a daily basis, fighting members, a growing number of members of Congress over this issue. They've been living with it already? No, no, no, not this. Not this. Not what?

This is different. What? He's sticking a thumb up at his nose. at Capitol Hill. This is a different thing. Well, I think there are probably a lot of people in the NFL that think Congress shouldn't be involved in this, and they are way outside their purview, especially since they've already introduced two, you know,

legislative bills off of this thing. And because you've already had Carol Maloney say, you know, essentially we're out for him. See, this is a mistake, and I'm surprised that, and maybe you do agree with me on this. This should be, and I, I used the example because I was watching the movie the other day, Beverly Hills Cop. Beverly Hills Cop number one.

When Axel Foley played by Eddie Murphy, you know, heads out to Beverly Hills to try to find out who, you know, killed his best friend in Detroit. When he got knocked out and his friend got whacked over these, you know, German bonds that he stole, you know, he first gets thrown out of Victor Maitland's office right through a window. And then he shows up at this club that Victor Maitland, you know, this very uppity private club. And he just walks in and he just said, Victor Maitland says, what do you want? And he says, I just want to talk to you. I just want to sit down and talk with you. And then he throws the henchman, you know, through the buffet. But then he sits down.

He says, I just, I want to talk to you. He wasn't threatening. He wasn't screaming like Carol Maloney's been doing. And putting a water bottle with a name tag and a chair. I think the truth will do, and they should stop making it so obvious that they're not after trying to change the workplace for women and eliminate NDAs and all of this stuff, and they've made it so obvious that they're out to get them. By the way, I want them to get him. I want him to get them. But I don't think that that's the right tack to take.

I think you're totally wrong. I think he is the villain, and you latches. onto that. You make him the target of everything. But that's not what they said this. These hearings were about. They've let their emotions get in the way. Oh, come on. Of course they have. Because he's such an asshole. He brings out the worst in everybody. I think this is the exact way you want to play it. Make him the villain. Make him the target. Let's Kevin.

You don't need to make him the villain. He's already the villain. He's been the villain. Now you're bringing back... No, you're bringing back criticism on yourself. And you didn't have to do that. Who? Who? Dan Snyder's defenders? No. Where's the criticism coming from, Kevin? The criticism's coming with respect to Congress,

certainly from the conservatives, the Republicans on that Houseover's site and committee, and from a lot of observers, Tommy. Get outside your left bubble. Don't do this lot of observers stuff. A handful of observers. and the conservatives are going to think about it no matter what. You're in your own little bubble here.

And by the way, again, I want them to get Snyder. But if you don't think that there are people that are out there saying, this isn't something that Congress should be spending their time on. Well, that's what I'm talking about. Of course there are. But that has nothing to do with Snyder. They would say it no matter what. Yeah, but I can't believe that you're touting that line.

Of all lines. Those conservatives would tap that same point of view, no matter what kind of cap the committee with me. I'm not done yet. Wait a minute. I'm not done yet. They would tap that no matter what, Kevin. I had three people who have nothing, know nothing about football this weekend.

Ask me, what's going on with Dan Snyder? This is the road you take. This is the attention getter. People are paying attention to this because there's a villain. You're first of all they didn't need to create a villain he's been a villain for a while have you been reading all of these stories have you heard about all of these investigations he's a villain in his world congress took this the congressional house and oversight committee took this on with the purpose stated purpose of changing things in the workplace using the commanders as potentially an example, but to change ultimately to get rid of NDAs when it came to the treatment of women? They do this, for one thing, to give the victim the voice, which is the primary thing in this, and the other thing, to get Dan Snyder for those victims.

And that is what grows. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be out to get Dan Snyder. I'm saying they shouldn't make it so obvious that they're out to get Dan Snyder. Why do they need to make it obvious? First of all, they've clearly, not that he was going to appear anyway, I'm not suggesting that. They've clearly made it very clear that they have a bias entering into these hearings to learn more about the workplace and to improve the workplace for women. No, this is out to get Dan Snyder.

That was never, that was a ridiculous. It's a stated case. It's a stated case of this house and oversight. Of course it is. I know that, but you can't be that. You can't be that night. I am not naive. I understand what they're trying to do.

I wouldn't have telegraphed as much. Because you bring on, you bring back criticism. When Carol Maloney said, when Carol Maloney said, we're going to make him pay. And when Carol Maloney said, you know,

essentially everything and anything, and when they made them look like a total buffoon by going overboard and putting the bottled water and turning it into theater, last Wednesday, I think that that is completely overkill, not necessary. The truth will do. And I think they bring back unwarranted and additional and incremental criticism on themselves.

Hearings. Hearings are theater. Oh, you're so in a bubble. How many hearings have you ever sat in? I'm not talking about how many hearings I've sat in. I'm talking about this goddamn hearing. I, you'd stop. Hearing's our theater.

Okay, you're not listening to me. Hearings are theater. That's the whole point of them. You didn't say that was theater last week. You thought a lot was accomplished. It was. Well, that, that, there's a lot accomplished in theater. What are you going to dismiss?

Well, I don't know. Was it fiction or nonfiction? I guess it was a nonfiction theatrical play last week. Yes. Yeah. Look, hearings are theater. What they did, you're saying he was already a villain. He was already.

a villain in his world. Now that scope has expanded dramatically. Because of why? Because he is the focus of their attention. And people who don't know anything about football

know about what's going on now because they know about Dan Snyder. Oh, they've known about Dan Snyder for a while. And outside of this town, I don't know how many NFL fans are really following the day-to-day of this. I mean, especially given that there's so many other things going on, Gruden, Deshawn Watson, what's happening in Vegas, what's happening in Dallas.

So I know that you have a wide polling range and you run in all these circles and stuff. So you're just going to dismiss my anecdotal evidence that three people who don't know anything about the NFL who I encountered this weekend. ask me what's going on with Dan Snyder. No, I'm not going to dismiss it at all. That's my point. Well, but no, your point is, my point was that this was a committee on oversight and reform where they were tackling toxic workplaces, you know, and they've already...

You're not listening to me. You're not listening to me, okay? I am not telling you that I am naive to the fact that they're going after Snyder. Of course I know that, Tommy. Of course I do. My suggestion is that they don't telegraph it and make it so obvious that they're going after him. They don't need to do that. Because people are so good at picking up subtletes?

The American public is good at subtletes? I don't think so. I think you need to hit him over the head. And that's what they're doing. Yeah, but the problem is they're, they're probably, you know, we talked about this and you said, well, this is the beginning, you believe that this is the beginning of the end, which by the way, I'm not going to debate you on that.

But I think that there is a lot of, this is way too political from other owners, from the league, as much as they hate him. And from, yes, a lot of observers outside your bubble that believe they've gone maybe a little bit too far, maybe hoping that they'll get him with this, but that it's not necessarily what they said they intended to do because she, Carol Maloney, more than anybody, has made it very personal, very personal, even before the 22nd, before a week ago tomorrow. This is pretty funny that you say in my bubble. Yeah, your bubble. I didn't know that you got around so much.

I do. I get around a lot more. You had so many circles to run. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I'm much. Well, you cancel too many people. If they're not in your bubble, they're canceled. They're on your list.

I don't have a list. Sorry. I'm more open-minded and tolerant than you are. If people don't agree with you, they're not in your bubble. It's easy to be tolerant in your circle, Kevin. Why would that be? What does that even mean? Because they all think the same.

Oh, no, no, no. Most of the people in my circle all think in a lot of different ways, and we don't cancel each other when we disagree. with each other. Nobody has a list that you go on to. It's a little bit of dialogue about this. Oh, you don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. Oh, by the way, let's go get a beer. Yeah, no, that's actually, that's my circle. That's my circle. Okay. As far as the canceling thing, this is bullshit. Okay. What do you mean? This is what you. You've been canceling people as for as long as I know you. I still love you, but you've had a list since the day I knew you.

And that list is growing in recent years. So do you have a list? I don't have a list. I don't. have a list at all. You have people who have... I certainly don't have a list of people because they don't agree with me. I certainly don't have a list of people that voted for Trump. You have a list. You won't... That's the difference. Okay, we're going down the wrong path here, but that's the difference. Voting for Trump is a line you can't cross. Well, that's your opinion, not mine. Did I vote for Trump? No, I did not. Do I hope that they figure everything out that he's indicted? Yes. but I would not cancel a longtime friend or somebody because of who they voted for. No, I wouldn't.

Really? No, neither. And I never did before because that was politics. This wasn't politics. This was humanity. That's your opinion. And anybody that doesn't share with it is off your list, except for me, thankfully. Yeah, it's on the list.

Because I always enjoy these conversations with you. Now, back to this, you know, what all my point is, is not that they're not going after them, not that they shouldn't go after him. I'm actually not of the opinion because I want to see him gotten. I want to see him gotten. I don't know whether or not really this is something they should be delving

into, especially after they've already introduced two pieces of legislation and now it's clear they're just going after them. I want to make myself clear on this. What I think is probably a better tack to take is not make it so obvious that their primary goal

is to hang Dan Snyder. That's all. And I think in order to get the attention that it deserves, I think you need to be obvious. We are not talking about a subtle group of people that you're trying to reach. How is it helping them right now? I think it is helping them. Well, he hasn't sat down with him. He's the source of ridicule because the story is right now he won't show up for a subpoena.

That's the story. I don't disagree with you. Not that they're trying to bully him, but that he's summing his nose. at Capitol Hill. That's the story. That's what they wanted. He's always going to be the clown in any of these things. But you and I disagree on last week. I thought it was pretty much for the two hours and 45 minutes or however long it lasted,

it did not make Congress look good either. I think the 29-page memo and all the information that came out of it was very enlightening. It was new information in a lot of the pieces that you and I discussed on Friday's show. but I do not think it was a day that made any of those people look very good. There were a couple of people that communicated okay that asked questions. I've already gone through the list of 12 questions that I thought they should have asked that were never asked. We did that on Friday show. Go back and listen to it.

I thought Jamie Raskin did a decent job because he's a decent communicator, and he was obviously following this story, but for the most part, it was buffoonery all day long. So I don't think that day helped them. But I don't think anything can help him. It was theater. And that's what you have in these congressional hearings, theater. Right.

So, well, let's go back to what started this part of the conversation. So you think the momentum is heading towards what? Because you believe there's some forward momentum against Snyder here? Yeah. I think that this is not a conversation. conversation, even if it goes on until November, that the NFL can live with. I just think it's, it's, it, it's, it, we've reached it, we're reaching the tipping point if we haven't reached her already. And I point out in my column that, I mean,

Snyder has become the team. I mean, people are even know there, there's a team anymore. It's all Dan Snyder. I mean, the whole stadium thing has been torpedoed in part because of the presence of Snyder. And one of the things I've talked about is that the NFL, one of the most important things an owner does is secure a new stadium for his team. And this guy is clearly getting in the way of that. And that's going to be a big problem for the league.

The team has become Dan Snyder. Yeah. And here's the problem with that, Ron Rivera, is that nothing you can say, no statement you can put out there, no matter how much you plead with the media, no matter how many people perhaps think that somehow it's the media's fault here, is going to change the fact that it's essentially been absorbed by Dan Snyder at this point. And I tend to agree with you on that.

Right now, until he either sells the team or it's taken from him, or somehow this, again, let me go back to one. one thing, because I talked about this as it relates to the Dwight Schar stuff, the truth will do. Like the whole process of whomever went about trying to set him up with, you know, false rumors, false internet rumors, to me, it's overkill. You don't need it. You don't need to say how bad of a person he is, especially if there's a chance that it's

going to come back on you and you're going to be wrong about it. You don't need it. You don't need that. That was an over-the-top tactical error. But I've always kind of amused by it is that people thought that people would believe it. Yes. I mean, and that speaks just as much about Dan Snyder as anything, that people put that out there thinking, well, people will buy into this.

They don't think he's capable of it. That's just really bad. The other amusing thing about that is somehow, they thought that with that those kinds of stories or at least the allegedly if it's Dwight Schar and and Mary Joe not Mary Jo, Mary Beth, whatever her name was, the person that was working in the organization that somehow that would um you know uh essentially pressure him to sell the team and actually what it did is it dug his heels in further and he knew that that stuff wasn't true and he fought back on that. And that's that's all I'm saying with respect

to Congress last week is just you don't need to go beyond what the truth is. But wait a minute, what were we just talking about? So, oh, the Snyder kind of absorbing the franchise. This is part of what you've written about. Part of what we've talked about before is how much of this really does impact the product on the field. My personal belief is it's kind of all tied together. It's always all been tied together. Snyder, even when people thought that he had stepped back some, was still getting involved in RG3, was still getting involved in drafting Dwayne Haskins. All of it is connected. So if he's there, even if he's absorbed the franchise and he's much more of the conversation or not as much, it's just, it's not going to work. But for poor Rivera and

the football team, this is ongoing. Fortunately, right now it's not while they're working. We'll see what happens when we get to August and September and how big of a story this still is. You believe it'll be a massive story at that point. Because you think we're headed towards deposition. Yeah. I don't think it'll be. Look, I think once the games start, there will be something to call attention away from it. But I don't think it's going away, no. But you think that this is headed towards him being deposed, or he'll be found in contempt, and that that's going to lead to something. Yeah.

So is that going to happen over the next few months, I'm guessing, right? I think it will. Which means he'll continue to absorb the organization, even when this season starts, or certainly they're in training camp. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's just, and like, I find it hard to believe. For so many reasons, we all find it hard to believe how the owners would continue to put up with this. But I think the stadium thing is really going to be the one that's going to hurt them.

I mean, like I wrote my column, The Washington Post wrote two editorials in three weeks, saying no public money for the stadium. And the only reason they voted this, the second one, was because of Snyder. Yeah. I mean, that's really unusual to revisit an issue like that so quickly. I mean, they probably write one stadium editorial every 10 years about this football team. And they wrote two and three weeks. Yeah, but I think the actions of the three jurisdictions are much more substantial.

I mean, they basically said no already, so it doesn't matter how many editorials are written about this at this point. Virginia's not giving them a dime. D.C. is not giving them a dime. and the land, and Maryland's not giving them a dime either other than what they've got invested into landover already with or without him. The stadium, if he's still owner, which, you know, I do think there's a chance that he loses the team. You know, there's a lot of things that we're not talking about here.

You know, we're not talking about the Mary Joe White investigation and what comes out of that. You know, I was talking to Neil in Rockville this morning about this, And I just said, you know, even though the Tiffany Johnston allegations were allegations that he jumped on right from the get-go and said, we'll investigate this, we'll be totally transparent, which to me was at least an indication that he really did think that this was totally made up or was totally unprovable, perhaps more the latter. Okay? that it still doesn't mean that in the process of trying to get to the bottom of the Tiffany Johnston allegations, that Mary Joe White isn't interviewing a lot of people, by the way, including Snyder already multiple times,

that isn't leading to something else that we don't know about. You know, the Jason Freeman. And then you've got the three attorney generals in three different states conduct the investigations into the, into the money issue. Well, you've got Mary Joe White investigating the financial improprieties. Yeah. So you have, you still, like if we're looking at, if you agree with me and not agree with Tommy, that this congressional thing is going to get drawn out and four-cornered to death until the Republicans, if they win the, you know, if they win back the house in November, it goes away. And that would be my betting odds favorite. But that doesn't mean that I don't think

he isn't going to be put into another predicament. This Mary Joe White thing could contain something that we're not even thinking about at this point because, again, in the process of investigating the Tiffany Johnston allegations and the Jason Friedman allegations, it's very possible that Mary Joe White's interviewed a lot of other people and more information about something that he did's come to light, which I don't think she's been told to ignore. She didn't, you know, she didn't title her Roger Goodell House testimony as a look into the toxic

workplaces in America, or, you know, however they describe that, she's investigating Dan Snyder and allegations against Dan Snyder and his team. It could lead to something else. It also, by the way, we have not, we talked about this on Friday, I still don't know how Roger Goodell doesn't go back and say, this mother

was running his own investigation while Beth Wilkinson was doing hers. He came to us and he made this pitch with this 100-slide dossier, throwing everybody under the bus except for himself, including Bruce Allen, has the primary reason for all of this awfulness within the organization. We didn't tell him he could do an investigation. And even though I told Congress it didn't impact the investigation, that wasn't his intent. His intent was to impact the investigation.

because he spooked some witnesses, you know, before they went in and talked to Beth Wilkinson, whether or not it impacted their testimony or not is not the point. His intention was to impact the testimony. How they don't do something over that is crazy to me. I mean, do you think they said, hey, we're taking over this Wilkinson investigation, okay? And, yeah, go ahead and conduct your own investigation. I mean, how does it? How does that not piss everybody there off?

And how is he not punished for that? Listen, the New York Times made a point of it in their coverage last week of the hearing. And I pointed it out when we were talking about it last week. At no point did Roger Goodell, and why should he, Roger Dell come to Dan Snyder's defense in that hearing. No, not one. It was not a protect Dan. Snyder hearing. I think a lot of the redaction stuff was protective of the investigation, but go

ahead. But his testimony. Yeah, he did. It's a goodel's testimony. Yeah, where he explained away why that he couldn't redact the names in the Wilkinson investigation and why the Wilkinson investigation wouldn't be released. He made no statement throughout that entire testimony that could be construed as any way protecting, supporting Dan Snyder. Did he make any statement that could be construed as trying to throw Snyder under the bus? Well, no, unless when he was asked, why don't you get rid of this guy? And his answer was, we can't. No, he didn't say that.

He said, I don't have the power to do that. Right. That's what he said. I don't have the power to do that. Right, which is true. He didn't say, why would he? Why would we want to get rid of an NFL owner? Yeah.

Well, I think they do want to get rid of him. I think they would all prefer if he were gone. But he didn't say that. It would have been nice if he had said that. But I certainly believe that to be the prevailing opinion among most in the league. Certainly from him, where are we going with this? You were going to say something else. Well, okay.

Here's the New York Times lead from last week. Right. The NFL commissioner defended the league's investigation into harassment claims against the Washington commanders, but offered no support of the team's owner. Dan Snyder, that was really obvious to me. I know it was to you. It wasn't to me. It wasn't, it, and maybe because he also didn't say anything that would, you know, essentially submarine Snyder in those hearings either. Well, sometimes it's what you don't say, if that counts. Maybe, and maybe if there were better questions asked, and if they had been better prepared for one of these things, that maybe they would have put him on the spot where he would have said something that would have been directly, you know, negative or a direct shot at Snyder. But I just don't think that those questions were really ever asked.

I mean, again, I'm not going to go through them all again like we did on Friday. But, you know, the one question that needed to be asked was what was Beth Wilkinson's recommendation? And even if he tried to say, well, that we didn't ask her to provide a recommendation, well, did she give one? And if so, what was it? You know, because that would have been, that would have been, that would have been a, that would have been a bit of a headline. Even though that news is kind of broken, it's never been confirmed.

Anyway. That's true. That was an important question that should have been asked. Well, there are a lot of important questions that could have been asked, but whatever. I don't know where this is headed. You seem to have... Hey, you know something, buddy? Hey, buddy.

What? Hey, champ. You know I love you, don't you? Nobody loves you, Governor, more than I do. All right, friend. All right, friend. We've got other things to get to, and we'll get to them right after these words

from a few of our sponsors. If you want to bet on whether or not Dan Snyder will own the team by the beginning of the season, just go to my bookie. No, I'm kidding. don't have odds on that, although they should. That would be a nice little NFL prop bet. Chances Snyder still owns the team by the end of 2022.

What would you place the odds at, Tommy? That he will own the team, all right? The odds that he will own the team. I think it's a pretty sizable favorite that he will still own the team at the end of the year. So the end of the year doesn't even give time for him to actually, you know, get an investment banker, put it on the market. I mean, that's a year-long process. let's say the end of 2023. What are the chances he still owns the team at the end of 2023?

You're 50%. You think it's 50-50? So you think it's even money. I think that Snyder would be a minus 300 favorite to still own the team at the end of 2023. And I hate that. I hate that. It means you're getting good money on the comeback on him not owning the team. I still believe that if he doesn't own the team by the end of 2023, it's because he chose to sell.

I know something we haven't talked about real quickly as it relates to this. I don't think we've talked about this. I forget who brought this to my attention. It wasn't like a source or anything like that, but it was somebody who said, you know, what the owners could do if they really want them out is they could pull money together. And they could say, look, you're going to sell it for $5.5 billion. And we just pooled together another half billion dollars that we're going to throw in. Because we don't want you to own this team.

You're killing us. You're absolutely killing us. You're killing one of the potential lucrative markets in our league. Or Tommy, this person suggested, we can forgive that loan that you took out with us to buy out your minority. shareholders, which by the way, I just want to remind everybody, you're the person that reported that, and I've always gone with that, and you still believe that to be true, even though it's never been reported before, that they waived the debt limit, which we know to be true, but that he then went to the league and borrowed the money from the league to buy out Schar, Rothman, and Fred Smith.

Yes. Yes. That was your reporting. So they just forgive the loan. sell this team, you're going to get the biggest, you know, sale in the history of North American sports, and we're going to forgive that, you know, billion, no, it was $875 million loan. I actually don't know how much he borrowed. I'm sure some of that money went to the minority shareholders out of his own pocket, but the rest of it he borrowed, and maybe they just forgive that loan. I would say that it's still, you know, he's still a sizable favorite to be the owner at the end of 2023, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong. I'm praying I'm wrong. Go to mybookie.com or my bookie.

Agee. Use my promo code. And they'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar, all the way up to a thousand bucks. They've got everything you want. All the prop bets you want for the upcoming season. All of the week one lines are already out. Preseason lines are up, if you can believe that. go to mybooky.com, mybooky.ag. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. And if there's something written in the promo code, erase it. And then put my promo code Kevin D.C. And they'll take good care of you.

So I wanted to have a bit of a basketball discussion with you because last night, or yesterday afternoon into last night, a couple of things happened. Number one was Kyrie Irving. And I think we did talk about this the last time we did a show. Kyrie Irving is staying in Brooklyn picking up the player option for $36.4 million. Why, well, it's real obvious, nobody was interested in Kyrie Irving, which is one of the things that I think I said to you last week. It's going to be really interesting to see if anybody's truly interested in this guy, because you can't pay him big money because he's just not reliable enough. may be good money chasing bad money.

So I thought that there was still a chance he would remain in Brooklyn because it would be his best option. Well, the Lakers were going to offer him the mid-level exception in a sign and trade, but that was it. They weren't going to go overboard for this dude. So he stays in Brooklyn and he makes the statement, normal people keep the world going, but those who dare to be different lead us into tomorrow. I've made my decision to opt in. See you in the fall. I mean, this guy's crazy.

Did you feel the earth move when he said that? You know what? The earth moved when he said that. Well, it moved sideways. It didn't move round and round. I mean, this guy seriously, he is a nutcase. I don't think he's very smart. I actually think he is a decent communicator.

He's obviously very much a philosopher. a very enlightened man, clearly. But my God, I mean, like... No, no, it's... Would you say he's a man of letters? He's got letters. He's a man of many letters. You know what?

A man of letters? I was... You know what I was going to do today on the radio show before this happened? I was going to do the... Would you, if you were a Wizards fan? Would you do Kyrie? You know?

God, I would have only hoped. But, well, it would have been... You know what it would have been? It would have been great theater. Really good theater. On one level, part of me, I think the adult part of me says no blanking way. I would never do that. This guy has been a disruptor and he's been borderline and subordinate.

This franchise doesn't need that. And then on the other hand, it's like, oh, my God, he's so brilliant. And let's just say, like, all of the sudden, he had an epiphany and he grew up overnight and he became a great player and a great teammate. And it was here. So I probably would have gone for it. I don't know. But there was no interest from anybody.

That's amazing. Somebody of his talent level, top three to five talent in the league. And nobody wanted any part of them. Look, the nets don't want any part of them. They're not offering them an extension. was a player option. You know, he's not picking up the player option like Bradley Beale's about to do and then sign, you know, a supermax deal.

There's no way Brooklyn's going to give him that deal. No. The other part of this, Tommy, is if he had gone to the Lakers, let's just say in a sign and trade, what would Durant have done? Because there was discussion that he was then going to go to the Nets to say, I need out. And how would that have made him look? I know. Well, the minute that was talked about, people were saying, hey, maybe it's time for him to come home. They were. I don't think he'll ever come back here.

The other thing that happened last night, and then something just happened right before we started the podcast. John Wall, who had signed his player option for $47 million, okay? actually, to be exact, 47.4 million. He exercised his player option in Houston after not playing it all this year. He hasn't played in 14 months. And he exercised that player option. Well, I mean, he did a really generous thing. He gave the Rockets back $6.5 million in a quid pro quo that allowed him to move on as a free agent

and sign with the L.A. Clippers, where he is getting the mid-level exception for $6.5 million. I want to circle back to Wall in a moment, but just earlier, like not that long ago, Russell Westbrook, it was reported as planning to exercise his $47.1 million option to return and play for the Lakers in 2223. My God, the money. The money is unbelievable. And he, I'm looking right now at my Russell Westbrook trophy up here on one of my shelves.

You know, the one where I told everybody that you'll never win with this guy, that ultimately he's a loser. Yeah. That trophy. Yeah. Well, I didn't know you had a trophy, but you used trophy as a way to get into the conversation to remind everybody that this was one of the predictions you got right. So go ahead, take a bow. What else? Okay.

Well, I think I just did. Yeah. I know you ask too much of me. I mean, I have a certain amount of, you know, I don't like to bang my own drop. See, here's the one thing. Yeah, right. Here's the one thing that I do in my enlightened bubble that you don't do. I admit that I was dead wrong about Russell Westbrook.

I, you know how much I loved him. And you and I debated this back in 2011, 2012, 2012, 2013. And I said, no, Westbrook is, he does make people better. He can win a title with him, and he's going to win a title one day. And so you were right, even though he got really close. They had a 3-1 lead on Golden State. Yeah, he did. Anyway, that's a shitload of money, isn't it, these NBA players?

I mean, it's unbelievable. You know, the more I'm exposed to today's NBA, the more I'm convinced that it's an abomination, it really is. And I guess it's found its place. It has its level of success. But when kids grow up to become adults, I think they kiss the NBA goodbye. I haven't. Okay. Well, you know, you've got that bubble around you.

You know what's funny is that most of the people in my bubble hate the NBA. They hate it. They're like you. So actually, our bubbles would intersect a little bit there. Bubble boy. So I, you know, the truth is I don't like the NBA as much as I used to like the NBA. I do love the playoffs, though. I really do love NBA playoff games.

I think that they're all the sudden, they put all. all of this other stuff to the side, and they just focus on winning. And the intensity and everything about the just completed NBA playoffs, I thought was great. I mean, I thought the finals were. Oh, come on. No, no, no. I admit the games, there were a lot of blowout games, but there were some moments and the intensity of the finals and Steph Curry's performance in the finals. By the way, I don't want to go down that path with you right now.

I don't feel like doing another one here on this show today. I'm not going there. But I wanted to tell you this, because I think I mentioned this on, no, I didn't mention this to you because obviously I saw this on Sunday. So on Sunday morning, very early on ESPN, was one of those many, many documentaries on the Celtics and Lakers. Like Tommy, in sports documentary history, other than Ali, it seems to me like there are so many that are Magic Bird or Celtics Lakers. Haven't there been so many documentaries on that? So I'm watching this. Absolutely.

I'm watching this documentary. And I remember this very, very much so, but it was just a reminder that Magic Johnson in 1982, after he had won the finals as a rookie in the greatest individual performance in NBA finals history, the 42, 15, and 7 when he was playing center for Kareem in Philadelphia. And then they missed the playoffs. They made the playoffs the following year, got eliminated after he, had been injured for most of the year. But Jerry Buss signed him to a contract in 1982. $25 million over 25 years. And that was thought to be like this incredible groundbreaking contract

where basically, and it's talked about in this documentary, his teammates essentially threw up their arms and said, well, Magic owns the team now. And it was a million dollars a year. A million. Here we are, you know, 40 years later, and Bradley Beale's about to make 50 million a year. He's not Magic Johnson. Magic? 25 million over 25 years. It was kind of brilliant by Jerry Buss. I mean, if he saw where the future of the NBA was going, and, you know, at least according to the show that I watched on HBO, winning time, Jerry Buss, like David Stern, a bit of a visionary on where the league was headed. I mean, he locked Magic. into the deal of the century. Yeah. Yeah, he did. And he was worth it.

So I want to go back to John Wall. Certainly worth it. So I want to go back to John Wall for a moment. Because John Wall is going to get a chance to play for the best team that he's ever played for. You know, Reggie Jackson is probably the starting point guard. You know, remember John Wall at one point a few years ago just couldn't believe that Reggie Jackson was making as much money as he. was and went public with that.

Now he's going to be Reggie Jackson's teammate. He's going to be on a team with Kauai Leonard coming back fully healthy. I mean, Kauai could have played if the Clippers had made the playoffs and, you know, moved a series into the postseason. They said he was getting very close to playing. Paul George, Reggie Jackson, John Wall. He hasn't played since April of 21. I have no idea what kind of player he's going to be. But I'm going to root for John Wall.

I understand that it was acrimonious, that there were issues, that he did some things that were not very smart in the final days here that they wanted to get rid of him after he was beloved and he was a staple of this franchise. And I'm kind of rooting for him to have figured it out a little bit. And what we are going to see a lot of next year, not you, but the people that pay attention to the NBA, we're going to see a lot of John Wall. because he's going to play on a team that's going to be an NBA championship contender next year, legitimate championship contender. It'll be interesting to see if he ends up being the starting point guard. It's going to be weird. John Wall's on the team, but he's coming off the bench.

I think they'll play him and Reggie Jackson together a lot because Jackson can play off the ball. But Reggie Jackson also is not, you know, he is used to coming off the bench. Maybe it'll work that way. But here's what I wanted to get to, because I think you're going to immediately swallow hard and say, what in God's name are you talking about? Before John Wall got hurt and then ended up, you know, missing a lot of games in 2017, 2018, 2018, 2019, and then left. His career, Tommy, through age 26, through the end of that 2017 season, which ended in the game seven loss in Boston,

he was in the midst of putting together a Hall of Fame career. I'm trying to think of how absurd that it may be or not. You want it to be absurd, don't you? No, he wasn't a Hall of Fame career. I didn't say it was a Hall of Fame career. I said he was putting together a Hall of Fame career. He was in the midst of doing that. you know, John Wall had averaged over that, you know, those first six years of his career, starting 2010, 2011, through the age 26th season.

He had three seasons of double-digit assists, the worst assist year that he had. I mean, he was already compiling. I think he's 44th on the all-time assist, you know, lead. And you double his career, and he is then very much like, bordering in the top five assists all time. He's a guy that averaged career-wise close to, you know, through those first years, over, you know, close to 20 a game. He was basically a 20 and close to a 20 and 10 guy through those first seven years, excuse me, of his career. And he was only 26. So if he doubled that and he was at 33 years old with the next seven years looking like the first seven, that's a Hall of Fame career. You know, you're probably right.

You're probably right. It probably is. Boy, that wasn't much pushback. Well, I'm looking at the assists, and I'm looking at how his scoring went up as he got older in his career. So, yeah, I think it's possible that he would have had a Hall of Fame career. I think if he didn't get hurt, yeah, but he doesn't have one now. No, he doesn't.

Just so you know, like roughly call it 800 assists a year, somewhere in that neighborhood, times seven is another 5,600 assists, and that would have put him basically in the top five all time and assists at age 33. if he hadn't gotten injured and he continued to have that kind of productivity. He would have been right there with Stockton, Kid, Paul, and Nash. I'm going to agree with you. Okay. Do we know if he can still play?

I don't know. I said that. I don't know what we're going to get in him. I mean, apparently, you know, when he was out there practicing, the Rockets just chose not to play him, that he was back to full health. You know, I'm looking right now. The last game he played in, which was in April of 2021, he had 27 points and 13 assists for the Rockets and a loss to the clippers. And that ended, that was the end of the regular season.

And then he was inactive all year this year. Pretty much inactive. Didn't play one minute. So the last, you know, he didn't get injured since the, you know, April of 20th. The last game he played in, 27 points, 13 assists for the Rockets at the end of the regular season in 2021. I don't know. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, so I don't know what we're going to get from him, but I do think that, I mean, you know Kauai Leonard is my favorite player in the NBA,

and he might be my favorite player in all of sports. And I will root for the bullets slash wizards. I mean, they're my team. But I'm going to root for the clippers. out west. I'd love to see him win another title. I want Kauai Leonard when his career is over to be, you know, as respected by the, you know, historians as I think he should be. I mean, I think, you know, one more title would really do it for him. He's already got two titles, probably would have had a third had he not gotten hurt in that Western Conference finals when he was with the Spurs

against, against Golden State when, what's his face, you know, he tripped over his foot from the bench. But it'll be interesting to see that team with John Wall. If it's John Wall, the John Wall, and the athleticism is still there and the explosiveness is still there, which he's always needed. He's always needed that. It'll be interesting to see how he blends with Paul George and Kauai Leonard and Reggie Jackson.

And if he gets more, one of the things that killed him with the Wizards was that he played too much. too many minutes. I don't think that's going to be a problem. And by the way, he was injured a lot. He got injured a lot. Yes, yes, he was. His style of play leads to, you know, high risk and injuries.

Last one on basketball today. And then I promise that'll be it for maybe a couple of days anyway. The Wizards are going to sign Bradley Beale. You reported this. you know, several weeks ago. They're going to, you know, unless something dramatic happens here over the next couple of days, Bradley Beal's going to sign a deal that's going to essentially put him in

the top three to four highest paid players in the NBA at roughly, you know, 48.5 million per year. And it's too late to do anything about it because the opportunity to decide, we love Bradley Beal, but he's not a number one player on a championship contending team and we want to contend for a championship. The time to get the most for them was, you know, a year ago. Not now, you know, in a sign and trade. That's not the time to extract, you know, what, say, New Orleans got back, you know, for Anthony Davis.

And I'm not putting him in Anthony Davis's category, but to get the most back. But still, you know, you have to ask yourself, where are the wizards going with this? Like, I like Bradley Beale. He's apparently a wonderful guy. and he wants to be here. Like there's a part of him that is old school. Chris Miller told me this last week. Part of him is old school.

He got drafted by a team. He wants to stay with this team. He wants to raise his kids in the same spot. He's got three kids. There's a lot to admire about that in an NBA in which, you know, everybody's just looking to jump to a winning situation at first chance. But he's not a number one on a championship contending team. So where are they going?

Yeah. Well, they're not going to it toward down the championship road. That's where they're not going. Not unless. You're right. It's too late to do anything about it now. Not unless Porzengis, you know, all of a sudden stays healthy and realizes his upside, which is really high. You know, he's got a super high ceiling, but he, you know, usually isn't to very very very high ceiling.

but he usually isn't available for like 35 to 40 games a year. All right, friend, do you have anything else for today? Yes, go ahead. Yes, I do. All right. Oh, I wanted to mention that. Let's do that. Today.

Hold on, hold on, because we've got to get another spot in here. There's one more thing. Tommy did text me before the show to remind me that this is the 25-year anniversary of something, and we'll discuss it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. He's He's pushed right here Above us by Tyson You've got been in the ear

Oh my goodness I can't believe what I'm seeing Well first he had a parachute drop on him Now he had a heavy way behind him When do we get that on take? Fighting Holyfield in the right ear What a reaction Well and he certainly hurts like hell

But he certainly had a big fight And that's a dangerous fight That was 25 years ago today, June 28th, 1997, one of the more bizarre moments in sports history when Mike Tyson bit off a portion of Evander Holyfield's ear in what was Holyfield Tyson, too. You were there. Yes, I was in the press row, just maybe about 10 rows back from the ring. And we didn't know what happened at first. I mean, everyone said, what happened when somebody figured out that, you know, word spread that he bit a piece of a Vander's ear off. And people tend to forget that, you know, Mills Lane, he was going to, he was a referee, he was going to stop the fight right then and there.

Okay. And Mark Ratner, who was the Nevada Atlantic Commissioner, editor of the commission, came up to him and said, you know, think about it. Are you sure you want to do that now? And Mills Lane changed his mind and said, okay, we asked for Vander if he could continue. And he said, yeah. So they let it continue. And then he bit off another piece of a beer.

Oh, my God, yeah. And that's when they stopped the fight. So Mark Ratner always told me that, my God, imagine if Tyson in that split second after the first fight, imagine if Tyson had knocked a Vander out with a punch like a couple of seconds later. Right. The shit storm that would have taken place.

Right. So, yeah, that was a wild night, not the least of which was a riot taking place in the MGM Casino, which should have been their biggest night in history, a Saturday night of Tyson Holofield, and they had to close the casino by midnight because there was a riot. It was just absolute chaos. That casino for a big fight when it is,

at the MGM Grand, that casino late at night could definitely get a little raucous. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think you and I may have been in there one night, or maybe it was Doc and I, or it could be, I forget who it was. It was after some fight we were out there for. And man, there was a lot of jawing back and forth at every table. Yeah. It was definitely, you know, powder kegish.

Yeah. I have a stupid question. Does your ear grow back completely? after something like that? It's not a stupid question. I don't know. I don't think so. I think you have leftover scar tissue.

Right. I don't think, I mean, does your arm grow back if you lose it? I don't know. But I don't know if it's some sort of extremity that, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I guess it depends on the bite. I mean, if somebody bites a piece of your nose off, isn't there always like a scar? I don't think it just grows back, does it?

No, there's probably some horrible scarring unless you got, you know, an incredible, what you call it, plastic surgeon to work on it. So that's a good question. But, I mean, that was, that was, it was funny because Avander predicted in a way that Tyson would do something like this. He thought that Tyson would find a way to get out of the fight when it wasn't going his way. Now, Tyson claimed that Evander was headbutting him, and he was, you know, but that's what Avander did. He had this huge forehead, and he used it as a weapon. He did it in the first fight when he kicked Tyson's ass in 96. So, you know, I mean, people,

people close to Evander thought that Tyson would find a way to tap out, and this was his way to tap out. So Tyson in this fight, by the way, 25 years ago tonight, was a minus 200 favorite, despite losing to Holyfield the first go-around. When he came out for that third round, he didn't put his mouthpiece in, and Laine Mills Lane ordered him to put it. back in. So that was the intent, right? Like, what do we know about? Did he just lose his mind in the moment, or did he come out with the intent of biting his ear off? I don't know. I think he came out

with the intent to bite his ear off. Like I said, I think I tend to believe people that if the fight, if he could sense the fight wasn't going to go his way early, he was going to do something to disqualify himself. I don't know if he thought it would be biting, you know, a piece of of Vander's ears off, but I think, you know, this is what he intended to do. And, you know, I remember the first fight when Evander beat him, people thought Tyson was going to literally kill Vander. They worried for his life. Right. And Evander basically beat him like he would beat a bully.

And after the fight, Tyson was like a puppy dog to Avander after that fight. So reverential, referential to him. so in awe of him, you know, like a bully would be after they just got their ass kicked. But the second fight, he didn't feel that way. I'm looking to see what his career was afterwards, Tyson's career. I clearly remember. Oh, it was like I was ringside for almost every fight after that. He came back and fought Oren Norris about 15 months later, and that fight was a disaster.

He hit Norris. when he was on his knees, and that fight was called a no decision. His first fight after that was Francoa, and he knocked him out in five. And then the Norris fight. And I was there for that fight. Okay, I was there for both the fight. He almost broke both his arm when he had it locked up, and he was getting his ass kicked by Botha until he landed a devastating knockout

in the fifth round, and Botha was gone. But Botha was beating him, and Tyson had almost broken. both his arm in a clinch at one point. Did you go to the fights that were abroad, Tyson's fights, like against Luce Savarisi in Scotland? No, I didn't go to any of those fights. I mean, you know, I mean, the Times would send me to Vegas, but it wouldn't send me overseas for that.

Well, did you remember he fought Lennox Lewis in Memphis? I was there for that. Yeah. Absolutely. But I knew that was, I mean, Tyson was a done fighter by then, you know? I mean, he was just done. And then... That was...

The effort, that was Showtime and HBO did that fight together. Because that was Showtime had a contract with Tyson. That was his last fight under contract. So this was their last chance to get whatever money they could out of him. So they agreed

because Blanix was an HBO fighter to basically do, you know, to co-produce it together. But Tyson was done by then. He fought three more times. He beat Clifford ATN, knocked him out in one round, and then lost to Danny Williams,

and then the final... Danny Williams. And then the final fight. And the final fight was, do you remember who it was against and where it was? Kevin McBride at the MCI Center. Yep.

And he lost to McBride. And that was it. And that was it from old Mike. What a career. And that night, I remember specifically where I watched it. I bought the fight because it was pay-per-view, right? You said it was pay-per-view fight. In fact, I think I read this.

Where is it? Did you already say this, that it was the largest pay-per-view fight? No. Yeah. So hold on. Here's the... I thought I read this somewhere, that it was the largest at that point, PPV fight in history. It may have been.

There was a lot of anticipation after the first fight. I mean, before the first fight, before the first fight, everyone thought Tyson was invincible. He walked through Peter McNally. He walked through Buster Mathis Jr. He walked through Frank Bruno. He walked through Bruce Seldon. None of those guys laughed in more than three rounds after he came out of jail.

And literally, people thought he was going to kill a Vander. So for the second fight, they thought people actually see a fight. 1.99 million buys, all right? That was at the time the top highest grossing pay-per-view fight in history. By the way, it's still, it is still, or maybe it's not. It's still number six. Tyson Holyfield generated $100.2 million

in pay-per-view money revenue with $1.99 million on January 28, 1997. The biggest fight of all time is Mayweather Pacquiao in 2015. Right. $4.6 million buys. What a robbery that was.

Do you remember when we had... That video exists somewhere on YouTube. Somebody sent it to me a few years ago. When you and I had Floyd Mayweather on during a Super Bowl or maybe it was during a fight and they said don't ask something about Pachial, but I asked anyway. I said, when are you going to fight Mani Pachial? And he got really upset and then he didn't. And then he continued to answer that.

Somebody sent that to me. It was you and me interviewing Floyd Mayweather. I don't know if it was that. It must have been at a fight. It wouldn't have been during a Super Bowl, but it could have been during a Super Bowl. I think it might have been a Super Bowl. I think that the two of them really did miss out on the opportunity. They didn't certainly in revenue that was generated.

$410 million in revenue was generated on February 5, 2015 for that fight. And it's the all-time biggest one. Second, by the way, is Mayweather McGregor. Mayweather's got the top four. Mayweather Pachial, Mayweather McGregor, Mayweather Canelo, Mayweather de La Jolla, which that was a massive fight at the time.

Remember how big that fight was? Oh, absolutely. The anticipation for it? Yes. So, anyway. I covered that fight, Mayweather, De La Jolla. Yeah, I think I was out there for that too.

I think I was out for that one. I think I was out there for, I can't remember. We were out there for a couple of Pachial fights. I do remember that. We were out there for Mayweather Shane Mosley. We were out there for Mayweather Mosley. You and I watched that one together on Press Row.

Yeah. We weren't that close, but we weren't that far away. You got us good seats. You had some pool. Okay. Anything else? I got nothing else for you, boss. All right.

Have a good holiday weekend, buddy. What do you mean holiday weekend? It's only Tuesday. Oh, that's right. Today's Tuesday. Yeah. That's right. Today's Tuesday. In my mind, it's already the weekend. Are you taking off? By the way, is July 4th Sunday? Is July 4th Sunday or Monday? It's Monday. It's Monday. All right, so there's a three-day weekend coming. I assume, yeah, July 4th is always a holiday.

All right, that's it for the day, back tomorrow.