The Kevin Sheehan Show - DC vs Baltimore & Lots More w/Jason LaConfora

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

Kevin had Jason LaConfora/CBS Sports on the show today. Among the topics: 1) Kevin as DC guy and Jason as a Baltimore guy talked about the dynamic between sports fans in both cities during the years with no baseball in DC and no football in Baltimore. 2) Jason shared some memories of covering the Redskins for the Washington Post. 3) Jason weighed in on Ron Rivera, Dwayne Haskins, the Anthem, Kapernick, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We'll get the show started here momentarily, but first in a world of uncertainty, one thing is for sure. Cancer doesn't stop during a global crisis. This Saturday, June 13th, the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society will host a trailblazing event, Big Virtual Climb, sponsored by Abbey to support their investment in groundbreaking research to advance blood cancer cures and its first-in-class patient education and services, including financial support and clinical trial navigation. step up to take cancer down by climbing 61 floors or 1,762 steps. Inside or outside, on stairs, on the road or your treadmill, climb your way. Join us for an opening ceremony and then take on your climb with our heart pumping playlist.

Join us this Saturday, June 13th from coast to coast as we come together to climb, conquer, and cure. register at lLS.org slash big climb. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. Jason Lockenforra will be our guest on the show today.

Jason, of course, a big part of CBS Sports's coverage of the NFL. He wrote for the Washington Post, covered the Redskins for several years. We'll get into a lot of things with Jason. He'll spend some time with us here shortly. Wanted to start with this. We talked about that encouraging news yesterday with Tommy. You know, sort of a depressing day with Tommy talking about things like death by dignity. And he was just a downer for most of the day yesterday.

But I uplifted him briefly with some encouraging news from the World Health Organization, the World Health Organization coming out on Monday and saying that those with asymptomatic cases of coronavirus, The probability of them spreading the virus was very rare. That was really good news because for a while there, you know, just a month or so ago, we were very concerned about the asymptomatic cases. We didn't know how many there were, and we were learning more and more as testing increased. But just the thought that you could be walking by somebody with no symptoms and they could spread it just as easily as somebody with symptoms was, you know,

one of those concerning thoughts. Well, the World Health Organization came out on Monday and said, nope, don't have to worry about asymptomatic cases. They don't really spread it. Very rare that an asymptomatic person with coronavirus

can spread it. And I mentioned to Tommy, it seems pretty obvious to me, doesn't it? Like if you're in a car or if you're in an elevator with somebody that has it, unless they cough or they scream and spit, You know, how are you going to get it from them?

What, from their breath? If you're, you know, distanced a little bit from them, it made sense. And at one point I said to Tommy, look, we may be entering that period where, you know, if you're sick, you go home, you stay home, you don't go to work, you don't go to school. And that seemed to actually get him a little bit excited and encouraged. Well, per usual with the World Health Organization and others during this crisis, they backtracked from it. You know, it didn't take long. It took less than 24 hours for them to say, yeah, we aren't really sure about that.

There's just too much unknown for us to say that asymptomatic cases, that it's rare for them to spread the virus. And the CDC came out and said that there was, you know, a 40% chance that an asymptomatic person could spread the virus. Others have set up to 60% chance. So that brief fleeting, encouraging moment with Tommy yesterday backtrack completely. I mean, just wait a day or two, and it might change back the other way. Who knows? A couple of other things to get to you real quickly before we get to Jason Lockenforah, and we get him on the phone.

The radio show has included now on a weekly basis, Chris Cooley, my old radio partner. and a frequent guest on the podcast. Cooley has been joining me the last two or three Wednesdays for about an hour to an hour and a half. And I think that's going to become more common. So if you're not listening to the radio show, I encourage you to do so. The team 980.com, the team 980 app, Alexa, Google Home, if you're not in your car. But we were talking about something that, first of all, Tommy and I talked about yesterday. Cooley was very much in agreement that if you had a redraft or a draft of the entire NFL,

as ESPN.com did the other day, that there is no debate as to who the number one pick is in that draft. It's Patrick Mahomes, hands down, not debatable. And he agreed with me also to a certain extent that it's the first time in many, many years that you can say that the NFL has a clear-cut best player in the league. He suggested that Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers, which was, I think, the two players that I mentioned too, I threw Deshawn Watson in there, but that Rogers and Wilson would be,

one of those two players would be the number two pick. He was blown away by certain players that were picked in this draft early, like Drew Locke, even though he's a fan of Drew Locke, and Ronnie Stanley, the offensive lineman. And we both sort of agreed that, guy like Matt Stafford in particular was drafted way too late as part of this. He was drafted by Baltimore at the end of the first round of this ESPN, you know, drafting of the entire league,

which was done by all of the ESPN beat reporters. But the point, well, actually, real quickly on Matt Stafford, I know I've mentioned this before on the podcast. I like Detroit as a team. and I know I've liked them before in the past. I like Matt Stafford. Two things on Stafford. One, I do like him more than Kirk Cousins. When I've mentioned Stafford before, people say, yeah, but you would still take Kirk Cousins.

No, I always compared the two. I thought they were comparable quarterbacks, not necessarily in style, but in productivity. But I like Stafford more. You know, if you had given me the choice even a couple of years ago and even now, I think I'd take Stafford. I think Stafford's 31 years old.

Stafford was off to one of the best starts to his career last year when he got hurt. Last year was a season in which he was putting up massive numbers through the first eight games before he got hurt. He was on pace for 5,000 yards, 38 touchdowns, 10 interceptions. You know, a great season. They were 3-4-1 at the time. They had lost a lot of close games to a couple of really good teams. They lost the game at home to the Chiefs that they could have won. They lost a one-point game to the Packers, lost a close game to Oakland, tied Arizona in the opener.

I thought Detroit was a pretty good team. Anyway, Cooley's thoughts on the overall ESPN draft of the entire league were similar to mine. But then we got into a conversation about the teams that we thought were absolute locks to be playoff. teams in 2020. We did a lot of football talk today. And a couple of teams that we thought would be surprises, and then I took calls. And I wanted to mention something about that segment. First of all, there's an increased playoff format starting in 2020, seven teams for conference. One team gets a buy. We're going to get a triple header, the opening NFL weekend next year, playoff weekend, in both conferences. That'll be exciting. That'll be fun. That'll make wild card weekend really,

really spectacular. Six games, not four. But we both agreed on the absolute two locks in each conference that you would put out there right now. In the AFC, it's easy. The Ravens and Chiefs, if you were to pick two locks prior to the season starting that would be two playoff teams, the Chiefs and the Ravens in the AFC. In the NFC, we both said the 49ers and the Buccaneers, with Brady and with Gronk, et cetera. And I think a lot of people would say the same thing. Now, we know what the NFL is. Every year, basically half of the playoff field changes from the year before.

So that led us into a conversation about two surprise teams per conference that we thought had a chance to make the playoffs in 2020. It's June 10th. I get it. But it just got us into a conversation about a lot of different teams and a lot of different rosters, too. which was interesting to sort of start to re-engage with the NFL and the rosters and what teams did in the offseason and how they drafted, et cetera.

The first thing is Cooley picked Cleveland and Denver in the AFC and the Rams and the Giants in the NFC as two teams who didn't make the playoffs last year who would make the playoffs this year. He really likes the Giants roster, even though he's not completely sold on Daniel Jones. my surprise or teams that weren't in the playoffs last year that were going to make the playoffs this year. In the NFC, I had the Lions and the Cowboys. And again, the Lions, because yes, for whatever reason, I seemed to always lean on the Lions and my belief that Matt Stafford could have a big year.

But they also have some talent on that team. They were a good team last year, decent team before he got hurt, maybe on the verge of a playoff season if he hadn't gotten. hurt. And then he got hurt and they fell apart. But they've got talent on that Detroit team. If you look at that team closely, you've got, you know, Kenny Goladay, who's turned into a star at wide receiver. You got a bunch of running backs and Kerryon Johnson, who hasn't been able to stay healthy. But remember, they drafted DeAndre Swift, you know, in the second round. They got themselves a real potential stud in the second round at running back. They also defensively,

drafted Jeff Okuda. Let Darius Slay go, but drafted Jeff Okuda. A lot of people think one of the real talented, maybe highest, highest evaluated, best evaluated corners in the draft in a long, long time. So I picked Detroit. Then I picked Dallas. I mean, Dallas's roster is certainly capable with a new coaching staff. That's been the weakness. If you like Mike McCarthy, I'm lukewarm to McCarthy, but I think he's better than Garrett. But you add CD Lamb. You keep Cooper. You've got Zeke, you've got DAC, whether it's franchise tag or not. You've got a team that if it's better coached, could easily win the East. So those were my two picks in the NFC. My two surprised picks in the AFC were indie with Philip Rivers, even though he did seem to lose some arm strength last year. I like that team.

I like that team last year, if you recall, with Jacoby Brissette. I thought Brissette was going to be better than he was. And then the other team was the Jets that I gave out. I like the Jets roster. First of all, I'm a Sam Darnold fan. I think Sam Darnold is going to be really good, and he's entering that third year. They added the Baylor receiver in Denzel Mims. They added the big left tackle from Louisville, Mackay Bechtin.

They've got Levyon Bell, who wasn't overly impressive last year. They've got Crowder, and then defensively, you know, they got guys like Jamal Adams and Quinn and Williams some really good young talent. I, and Greg Williams is the defensive coordinator. I look at that division that the Jets are in and Buffalo is the favorite in that division, and I think justifiably so, a slight favorite over New England. Who knows what New England's going to be like without Brady for the first time. But there's something about that jet team last year when you watched it with Darnold. Darnold missed some games early, and Luke Falk, the Washington State quarterback, came in, and they got blown out without Darnold.

But every game that Darnold played in, basically, with the exception of a game against the Patriots, were all there for the taking. They played the Ravens late in the year and got blown out in Baltimore. They won six of their final eight games, the Jets did, and Darnold keeps getting better. So the Jets were my pick there. I wanted to also just get to one of the other results. of this conversation this morning. Every single team in the NFL between Cooley and I and all of the callers,

every single team in the NFL with the exception of two, were thought to be potential surprise teams in the NFL next year, teams that could go from not making the playoffs to making the playoffs, which seems unusual, but it really isn't. The only two teams that weren't selected by anybody on Twitter, anybody when we opened up phone lines or by Cooley or yours truly were the Bengals and the Jags. They're the only two teams that nobody's giving any chance to making a surprise run to the postseason. We had people say the Redskins.

Now you might say, well, that comes with sort of the local bias, which is fine. I had a caller calling and say, look at Miami's roster. And tell me you don't think that the dolphins could be much improved in a division that could be somewhat wide open. And yeah, if you look at Miami, first of all, you're making a big leap that Tua is going to be healthy. But even if you don't make that leap to Tua, Ryan Fitzpatrick can play. You know, and they've added a bunch of players.

And they've added a bunch of young players, you know, in recent years. And Brian Flores, I thought, did a decent job. Remember, they went from being a team that looked like they were tanking early to a team that was incredibly competitive over the second half of the season. So, you know, even Miami, I guess was my point, you know, was selected. The Jets were. I picked the Jets. Somebody else called in and picked the Jets.

Some people, you know, really, and I'm talking about the teams last year that didn't make it, a lot of people really liked Cleveland and Denver, Cooley's picks in the AFC. Denver's loaded with talent. So is Cleveland. Like, just go through Cleveland's roster, you know, you get a moment. And look at the talent they have. Now, I think there's a big question market quarterback. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Baker Mayfield, but Landry and Beckham at wide receiver.

Austin Hooper, they had it at tight end. You know, Jedrick Wills Jr., they drafted as they're starting left tackle instead of going after, you know, Trent Williams. They signed Jack Conklin in free agency to add to the offensive line. Defensively, Miles Garrett is a potential top three defensive player in the league. Olivier Vernon, they still have. I forget what kind of year Vernon had. Then that secondary with Denzel Ward starting to enter his prime as a legit upper-tier corner. Grant Delpit, they added this year's draft from LSU after adding Greedy Williams,

the corner from LSU last year, both second-round picks. They've got players, man. They have players. I don't know about Stefansky as a head coach, but if Baker Mayfield's just okay, remember Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb too, of course, that team could be what we thought that team was going to be last year before they opened up the season with, you know, really a bit of a dope as a head coach, and they got blown out early by Tennessee at home, and, you know, they limped to a six-and-ten finish. You know, they're theoretically in it when they played Pittsburgh in that,

in that game on a Thursday night, the Miles Garrett game when they won at home. The Miles Garrett-Garrett, you know, Rudolph incident where Garrett got suspended for the rest of the season. But, you know, not many teams can you point at and say, yeah, no chance of making the postseason. You can point to a lot of teams. Take the NFC West. Every single one of those teams, the 49ers, the Seahawks, the Rams, and the Cardinals. there's not one team in that division that if I told you they're in the playoffs next year, would you be shocked, including Arizona, loaded with talent, his added talent, obviously in DeAndre Hopkins. The Panthers, you know, I thought the Panthers would be a team that no one would mention.

Not true. And if you look at the Panthers, you know, roster and consider, yeah, they've got a new coaching staff, and that could be, you know, an issue for the first year. Remember, not only did they hire Matt Rule, a defensive guy from baseball, Baylor. They hired Joe Brady, the guy that made Joe Burrough so great at LSU last year to be the offensive coordinator. But Carolina, Carolina's got on offense, McCaffrey, they added Teddy Bridgewater quarterback. I'm a Bridgewater fan. And Robbie Anderson at wide receiver to go with DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel. Defensively, they drafted Derek Brown, one of my favorite players

in the draft. I think he's got a chance to be a great interior defensive lineman. They already had talent defensively. Secondary a little bit question marked. But they also added the kid Gross-Madows from Penn State as a pass rusher in the second round. So even a team like Carolina, can you really look at them and say, ah, they don't have a chance. Now that division with Tampa and Atlanta and New Orleans seems loaded. Everybody in the NFC East, you could say,

the Redskins, the defense is better, better coach, defense gets them to eight wins, nine wins. And with seven teams in each conference, more likely than not every year there's going to be an 8-and-8 team. At least one. Anyway, I thought that was interesting as you start looking around the league. The Chargers lose Phillip Rivers. They add Tyrod Taylor. But look at their roster. Look at the Chargers roster in a division where Denver should be improved.

Oakland could be improved. And Kansas City is the favorite to win the Super Bowl. But the Chargers have, you know, in addition to the offensive talent that was around Phillip Rivers, and it was banged up a lot here, and it has been other than that 12 and 4 year they had. But they got Keenan Allen on offense. They lose Melvin Gordon, but they still have Austin Echler and Justin Jackson. Love Justin Jackson. Is Herbert going to be ready?

If he isn't, do you like Tyrod Taylor? That's the big if. Hunter Henry stayed, re-signed. Mike Williams, Keenan Allen offensive. defensively. And defensively, they got talent all over the board. You know, Bosa, Ingram. They added Linvald Joseph. They've got Derwin James, who a lot of people think is one of the top three, four safety talents in the league. Chris Harris, they added. The Chargers actually could be really good. They just have a new quarterback. So anyway, interesting NFL conversations to come about the season

and to see the teams that people are going to be picking. I mean, everybody knows Chiefs Ravens. Everybody knows 49ers Saints now Buccaneers. After that, you know, there's going to be a lot of playoff spots and a lot of people in contention this year. One other quick note before we get to Jason Lockenforah. So I told you a few weeks ago that the Brooklyn Nets were very interested in Bradley Beale. They wanted to trade for Beale.

and Beal actually was intrigued by the possibilities. And we read a bunch of those quotes. Ultimately, he wants to play with John Wall and he loves D.C. But, you know, if a new team and a contending team and the opportunity to play with Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, you'd be crazy to say that if that were presented, it wouldn't be interesting and intriguing to the player. A player like Bradley Beale, who has really gotten all the sudden, you know, a ton of respect from around the league with how much he's improved his game. Well, there's a story in the athletic that reported that the Lakers have reached out to the Wizards about Bradley Beal.

So Beal joins LeBron and Anthony Davis to form the big three in L.A. Now, the Wizards appear to be not interested at all. And while I think Beal would be interested, I also think Beal wants to play with John Wall next year. next year. I've got the hiccups. I do think he wants to play with John Wall. John Wall, if he comes back at 100%, is going to join a player in Bradley Beale who is much improved

from the last time John Wall played with him. There is going to be a decision, right, that Bradley Beale's going to have to make at some point, and that's going to be the decision that tells us whether or not he truly wants to be here, because the Wizards are ultimately going to offer him a Super Max deal. which they'll be able to offer.

And he's going to have to make the decision on whether or not the Wizards are the right team to be with moving forward. A lot of interest in Beal around the league. I can completely see that as either a second piece or a third piece to a true superstar player. I don't put Beal into that category of top five player, not even close. I don't think Beal's a top 10 player. But the last time I watched him play before this shutdown, Beale had grown into an easy top 20. player, if not starting to push that top 15 area. And as a scorer, you know, he is approaching that top 10 to 15 area as a legit score in the league. He was the second leading scorer in the NBA

when the league shut down. Remember that. Hardin was averaging like 34 a game and Beal was averaging over 30 a game. Beal was in the midst of having one of the great regular season, scoring seasons, in bullet slash wizard's history. Beale was averaging exactly 30.5 points per game when the season shut down. And over that last stretch, if you recall, starting in February, he went for 53 against Chicago, 55 against Milwaukee, 30 against Brooklyn, 42 against Utah, then went 34 against Golden State, 35 against Sacramento, before finally going for something less than 30. He had 29 against Portland. And then he went 35 against Atlanta, 23 against

Miami, 39 against the Knicks and a win, which was the last game the Wizards played before the shutdown on March 10th. Quick word about Roman, and then we'll bring in Jason Locke and Fora. If you were to guess on average how many days people in the U.S. have to wait to see a doctor. What would you say? A week maybe? Actually, on average, people have to wait around 29 days to see a doctor in major U.S. cities. Basically a month. If you're dealing with a condition like erectile dysfunction, you want treatment ASAP. That's why our friends at Roman have spent years building a digital platform that can connect you with a doctor licensed in your state, all from the comfort of your home. Roman makes it convenient to get treatment you need on your schedule. Just grab a phone. Grab your computer.

complete a free online visit and you'll hear back from a U.S. licensed physician within 24 hours. And if the doctor decides that the treatment is right for you, Roman's pharmacy can ship your medication to you with free two-day shipping. You'll also get unlimited follow-ups with your doctor anytime you've got questions or you just want to adjust your treatment plan. With Roman, there are no commitments and you can cancel any time. So if you're struggling with go to get roman.com and use my promo code Sheehan, S-H-E-E-H-A-N, for a free online visit and free two-day shipping. That's get-roman.com promo code Sheen for a free online visit and free two-day shipping.

All right, let's bring in Jason Lockenfora, who of course has been working for CBS for a long time now, CBSports.com, CBS television covering the league for years. course, I was introduced to Jason when he was covering that juggernaut of a team, the Washington Redskins is the beat reporter for the Washington Post for many years. You know what? I want to get to a lot of what's happened here in recent days in the NFL and a couple of other things. But real quickly, because I, you know, I've had you on the podcast many times and years ago had you on the radio show many times. Everybody knows who you are. Everybody's followed your career a little bit, but not everybody knows about you. You grew up in Baltimore, right?

Yeah, my parents have been in the same row home in East Baltimore since 72, I think. I was born in 74, yeah, born and raised here, spent most of my life here. Even when I was covering the caps for the Washington Post, they were still at Pliny Orchard at the time with their practice facility. And I lived in Canton. I lived in an area of East Baltimore, near where I grew up. up for those five years because it wasn't a bad drive to Piney Orchard, and I rarely had to be in the office. And the time of the day that I was driving to MCI Center, where I think they were still calling it

at the time, it wasn't a bad commute at all. Then when Redskins Park became by home, that was, that's when we moved to Arlington. But yeah, I've been here most of my life. Did you grow up a Colts fan? Yeah, yeah, I was a Colts fan. But, I mean, the years I really started watching football, like, really got into it, like, 81 and 82. Those cult teams were bad, really historically bad, and, you know, the owner, Ursae was already starting to kind of flaunt. The team, you know, he'd show up in Arizona, he'd show up in, you know, California.

He was already fighting with, you know, the mayor Schaefer about the future of the team. and games were blacked out with some regularity because the team was so bad and the optics were so bad and the owner was really at war with people. So you didn't get to see them as much as you'd like unless you were at the game, and we did go to a bunch. But yeah, those were really bad cult teams and then by 84 they were gone. Did you, were you one of the few? you know, I've always found it interesting because as you know and I know, me being a D.C. native and you being a Baltimore native, they're two totally different cities, two totally different groups of sports fans. I mean, you have, you know, the Maryland basketball program, which you shared, Maryland football too,

but Maryland basketball has been a significant part of all of the lives of sports fans of D.C. people and Baltimore people. But, you know, Washington people immediately adopted the Orioles when the senators left 71. I was one of those guys, Jason. I was a DC guy. I wanted my own team, and I never became a huge Orioles fan like a lot of my friends did. Very, I think many fewer Baltimore people became Redskinned fans when the Colts left. A, do you agree with that? And B, did you root for the Redskins ever? Did you ever adopt them as your team? No, I think you're right. And part of the The reason was there was a strong sense in this community that Jack Kent Cook was perfectly fine with the Colts leaving, and then he wanted the Redskins to become even more of a regional team,

and that him being one of the more influential owners and him being an owner who was riding high right around the time that the Colts left, the Redskins were, you know, very much in sort of their glory days. They did. They're competing for Super Bowl every year with, with Gibbs, and there was a strong sense in this community that Jack Kent Cook would never let a team come back to Baltimore, and there was a sense that Tagliabu was a D.C. guy, and he would roll with Jack Kent Cook. And I think to some degree that's hard to dispute because they gave a team to Jacksonville before they put one here. And I don't think you look at the Ravens and look at the Jags and just look at the attendance numbers and look at the revenues, and look at the stadiums.

There's no comparison, which is the better football city for the NFL. There just isn't. So, yeah, I think there was a lot of ill-will and bad blood, and I can remember, like, as a kid, like, going with my dad to, like, pick up food on a Sunday from, like, one of the neighborhood bars and bring it home,

and people just being livid that the cults were being, I'm sorry, that the skins were being sort of rammed down our throats on, you know, at the TV package with us now being lumped in as like getting the Redskins games and getting all these NFC East games that nobody cared about. And I think that just made people

dislike the Redskins anymore because it's like if we're going to lose our team, can't we at least just watch the best game? But can't we watch what L.A. get? You know what I mean? Just let us watch the best games possible. Nobody gives a damn about the Redskins here.

We don't care about the Eagles. Big game with the Cowboys. Like, you know, we want to see Dan Marino. You know, the irony of that is that D.C. baseball fans felt the same way about Peter Angelos that Baltimore football fans felt about Jack Kent Cook. Yet, D.C. adopted the Orioles as its hometown team in a much more significant way than Baltimore people adopted the Redskins. It's a personality thing, I believe. Like, I think D.C. was an easy mark. for baseball. First of all, it had been, you know, two different franchises lost within a 10-year period. And I'm not old enough to remember the original senators leaving. I'm just barely old enough to

remember my father taking me to Senators games at RFK Stadium before they moved to Texas. But D.C. became a significant Orioles market. And yet in this, and the situations were similar. I remember being in sense that the Orioles I've always felt like the Orioles were keeping D.C. from getting a baseball team because the attendance was so significant and meaningful at Memorial Stadium and later Camden Yards for the Orioles owner. Yeah, it's weird. Like, I'm just sitting here thinking about all the times I would beg my dad to take me to the Capitol Center to see a Bulls game. Or, I mean, as soon as I was old up to drive, you know, I use a lot of my money on a Caps partial plan with my best friend from high school, and we would be at Caps games at Landover all the time. Never once did it enter my mind did I have, and I love the NFL, but like, even if the Chargers were playing the Skins and the Chargers became my favorite team when the Colts left, like, I would have never thought. Like, it would have never occurred to me. It would have seemed blasphemous. for me to like ask my dad or what of my uncles or something

to like take me to RFK like I would have never like it never even entered my mind like it would have never and nobody would have done it anyway so maybe I already kind of knew that but it was like I love the NFL and yeah I mean I did see the call and I went to I don't know probably 10 or 12 Colts games in my life but it was really young for the most part but yeah through that whole

run, I never was like, oh, it'd be cool to go see a redskinned. Like, just as a sporting experience, just as someone who loved the NFL, like, never would have happened, never would have occurred to me. It just wasn't even how anybody was wired. It was like, that's their thing. Like, let them have it. But the bullets and the wizard, that for some reason, that was just different. I guess because we had never had, I mean, we'd never had hockey, and the bullets left were

so long ago that I don't know that there was any animosity. more. Yeah, I always had a sense going to Bullets games at the Capitol Center that there was definitely a Baltimore element to the crowd, just like there is at Maryland basketball and Maryland football games. You know, it's almost a shared thing between, you know, two sizable markets. You know, the other interesting thing over the years is Baltimore leaves, D.C's one of the marquee brands in the entire sport. And by the way, in sports overall, It's viewed as one of the great NFL cities, best two or three NFL cities, and in 20 years, Baltimore has become a much better NFL city than Washington. It's kind of crazy when you think about it. I mean, winning, obviously, is a big part of it versus losing. But it's been amazing, I bet, for even you as an NFL reporter and someone familiar with both teams and both franchises to see the erosion of the Redskins fan base. Yeah, it has been It has been stunning

And I mean Someone's gonna stand there And get punched in the face For only so long Before they decide that You know what I could go I could go do something else with this time I don't have to give

This time This energy This passion This financial commitment To an entity That is not loving me back And I think it comes down to Odership

And it comes down to Sort of decision making At the top and it comes down to being willing to sort of stick with a model, a division of labor, a small group of individuals who you think are worthy of being the stewards of your franchise for a long period of time. And then I think it also comes down to stadium amenities game day experience. and there's a wide gap between the two franchises and pretty much all of those categories.

You know, and it's just things as simple as parking and getting in and out. There's just a lot that goes into it. I mean, I'd forgotten how bad it was until I finally broke down, and I went to see that the Redskins, one of their preseason games a couple years ago. It was, they were playing the Bengals. And it's like, it had been a while since I was there. And so you kind of like, the PTSD goes away a little bit. And then I got in that parking lot, and I was like, I'm leaving at half time.

Like, I all started coming back to me. And it's like, I don't think I'm favorite this whole game. Like, I just remember, like, trying to get in and out of there at times and just how jacked up it is. And, you know, I was parking like a mile away from the stadium because they didn't give me the right parking. and fast and I was just like, God, this is a miserable experience. You know, I've mentioned many times.

Like, to me, it would be a great Wharton or Harvard Business School case study to look at what has happened here in two decades to take a brand that was so fiercely, you know, followed and loyalty to the brand and to see what's happened. You know, and in recent years in doing the show, you know, on 980, You know, I've mentioned so many times, and this is what I still like about our fan base, is I'll mention many times the Ravens and how, you know, there's an incredible amount of respect to watch a great owner, to watch Ozzie Newsom, to watch DeCosta, to watch the coaching, to watch what they've done as an organization. It's a great organization, and to admire it. And I take a pounding when I do that, and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not a Ravens fan.

Right. But you can respect what they're doing from. you know, especially given that it's so close. And, you know, we get Ravens games. You know, the D.C. market, and we, you know, the Red Zones made it very easy to sort of move away from that. But for many years, we've been getting Ravens games. I can remember early on, I'm like, I don't want the Ravens games on. I want to see a better game here, you know, even though the Ravens were good teams.

But anyway, it's interesting to see how that's happened over the years. We're talking to Jason Locken for, and Jason, by the way, also has a really good podcast, a podcast called Be More Opinionated. I know Jerry Coleman's a part of that, and I ran into Jerry recently. I can't even remember where. But listen to that. You can get that podcast in any place that you get podcasts in this day and age. By the way, real quickly, before we get to some of the league issues, you covered the Redskins for a period of time, you know, for the post. Yeah.

Give me a good story or two, bad or good, about your time covering the team? Oh, man. That's pretty open-ended. You know, you were, let me interrupt for one second. You were, and one of the reasons, and I'm just telling you this, I'm not trying to not blowing smoke up your backside, but I always liked you as a beat reporter because you also injected some opinion into your beat reporter, which I, beat reporting, which I liked. Like I could always sense some emotion, even in your stories.

And I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but it's my preference personally. And you were very aggressive as a reporter, and you broke a lot of news, which hasn't happened that much over the years. But do you remember like a story you were super proud of or a big story that you broke? I mean, probably if I thought about it, I mean, immediately what comes to mind is, like when I first got on the beat, and, you know, it was sort of this changing of the guard, and they were trying to see what I was all about. I think I kind of already knew what they were all about. But, you know, you go in with an open mind.

And so I got called in the Dan's office, and, like, Carl Swanson was in there. I think Vinny might have been in there. I mean, this is a long time ago now. But this is sort of like the, you know, hey, here's how we do it. around here. You know, here's how we roll. And I was like, look, I don't, I don't want you to give me anything. I don't want, I don't want you to be spoon fed. I don't want anything from you. You win. I'm going to break my back to describe in a way as best I can why you're winning

and what makes you good. And if you keep being who you've been, then I'm going to do my dandah to explain why you can't win and why you have been unable to win. That's how I view my job, and I'm not, you know, ask Ted Leonis how I covered his team, because that's the same thing you're about to get. Did, was, were they antagonistic with you? Well, I mean, there was, I mean, uh, yeah, I mean, they controlled a message board

that would spread all kinds of lies and rumors about me. I mean, there was a file they showed me when I left the Washington Post, like the HR had that was like all these letters from their lawyers with these just blatant, I mean, that wasn't true. Like, I got in a fist fight with Mike Wise in the press box at the Meadowlands. You know, all these reasons, these letters

that the Redskins wrote at various times why I should be taken off the beat or terminated or whatever. I mean, they had the TV show, that ridiculous TV show with which his face, you know, spreading lies. Oh, he's giving playbooks to the Delos Cowboys. Oh, he's working with other teams

of the division to give away secrets. And, I mean, it was, it was pretty, out there. In many ways, they were ahead of their time. Fake news. You know, it's really... But, uh... Yeah, it was a strange time, man.

And you would get these different partners on the beat, and you try to tell them. And they'd be like, nah, man, come on. Nah, no, no, I can't be like that. And then, you know, whether it was Howard Bryan or Jason Reed, like, after a few months, they're like, bro, you were like, oh, my God, it's real. And I'm like, yeah, dude, it's real. It's, this is some... This is some different stuff, man.

I can remember one time, like, I was convinced somebody had moved my car in that parking line. Like, I'm like, I remember calling, like, Jason Reed. I'm like, bro, I don't, my car, I don't think it's where, like, I don't think this is where I, like, when I got here at 7 a.m., I don't think it was where I parked the car. And at a certain point, you kind of start getting in your own head, and I'm sure it was, like, wherever I parked it, it's just, you know, you just forget about it, and you've got so much on your mind. but it was it was quite an experience man you you kind of had to be prepared for anything

keep your head on a swivel but you liked Gibbs right yeah I did I mean I felt bad for him because I thought that for a guy who'd been out that long the model they chose the infrastructure just wasn't there and he was having to do so many jobs and there was always something going on

and he had to put out so many fires that it took him away from what he was ultimately best at, which is being the head football coach. And, you know, he's got to look over guys on the waiver wire, and, you know, you have to sweat all these small details, and then there's this, this, this is going on in the media, or this player said that, or, you know what I mean?

Clinton Portis did this, and this guy did that, and this cat won't wear the right uniform. And, you know, this guy's got too much tape on his leg, and he had, like, all that went across his desk, and I just felt like if they had the pad, if he had walked into a strong organization where they had more people who were like excellent at their jobs and they had been hiring the best and the brightest for years, then I think you could have had a very different outcome. But as you watch what he had to deal with and all that was going on,

and the fact that so many of the guys he brought in were not at the vanguard of what was going on on either side of the ball, that was a problem. And, you know, I think that that held them back. and it took time. I mean, all the staff overhaul that started happening fairly soon. You know, and then again, that's all on his desk. We're talking to Jason Lockenford, who covered the team for, I think, six or seven years. It was something like that.

I think it was five. Was it five? Okay. Yeah, I think it was five years. You know, it's interesting, by the way, just as an aside, you know, here we were, you know, sports talk radio, long form every single day, three to four hours a day owned by for a significant percentage of those years. Red Zebra, which was funded and owned primarily majority owner was Dan Snyder. And you can ask me or Zabe or Andy or Doc or Brian or

anybody that's been on the air for a long time on that station. And they essentially ignored us. I mean, there was never anything said. I mean, here we were during the years being harshly critical of the team when they sucked, even though there was this impression that we were like an extension to the team, which was just completely untrue. I would listen to driving to the Redskine Park and coming home. I never thought you guys were homers. Nor did anybody that listened on a daily basis. But it's just, you know, we always felt it was very funny that the relationship was a bit antagonistic,

no doubt. They didn't help us. But they also didn't ever say, you know, hey, this is how we want it done. Like there was never any of that, which is just strange. So, real quickly, before we get to the league, what do you think of the hiring of Rivera? Do you think that this, you know, we always think when this happens, whether it was Mike in 2010, you know, Joe in 2004, maybe things will be different. Rivera, I think Jason was a really solid hire. What did you think of the hire?

And then what do you think about the state of the franchise right now without Bruce Allen in it? anymore. I think he's an excellent leader, widely respected, but he's never been quite this guy before. You know what I mean? There was a different sort of checks and balances in Carolina.

Never having this much responsibility, you're saying, beyond coaching. It's kind of like, it's the same thing like with Shanahan and with Gibbs, that model hasn't worked. Ron's younger than those guys at this point. He probably has more energy and probably is coming at this from a different mindset that those two guys who had to know the moment they took that job, that that was very likely their last job doing something like that in the NFL. Well, but there's so much that goes into it.

There's such a steep learning curve, and he's not going into an organization that has the infrastructure already there. And it's like now you're in charge of what color the walls are and how big the training, you know, how you spread out the whatever medical room. And now you've got this pandemic on top of it where all these things are going to have to be reshuffled on the fly. and you're going to have to spread things out even more and figure out how to make that facility able to hold 95 guys with these new regulation. And it's not a very big facility, if not by any means, state of the art.

There's just going to be... All that stuff is now his deal. You know what I mean? And that's not what got him hired. You know, what got him hired was the rising defensive coordinator who then goes and establishes strong staff in Carolina so that when guys leave as defensive coordinators, the next guy up is still pretty good.

And Ron's still taking care of that. And, you know, that slipped the last few years in Carolina. So that's, you know, it's that he, if they were already, like if they already had the Bobby Betherd, if they ever found the Bobby Betherd, then would he be a great Joe Gibbs? Yeah, but that's not how they're, you know, making the sausage there right now. And he wavers from this model of the coach has almost no power to the coach has all the power. and there's probably a happy medium somewhere in the middle that might serve them better for something that lasts, you know, eight years, 10 years, 12 years, whatever.

So, I mean, Ron's super smart and he'll probably figure a lot of things out on the fly, but this isn't who he's been. This is a very different sort of deal now where all, you know, all things go through Ron Rivera's desk. And whoever's picking the players, he's going to have a lot of say in. And, you know, however this thing gets sort of morphed and evolves over the next. few years. It's all going to have his fingerprints on it. And that hasn't worked there. Do they have the right quarterback in Dwayne Haskins? I don't think it's going to be, I don't think anybody could say they know until 2021, because I just don't know what they've given him that you could say is giving him,

like what's in place that will give him a fair shot. I don't know what that is. I mean, we're in the middle of this pandemic. You can't be around the facility. They have changed everything up again, right? He's on his third coach already. The offensive talent, and I'm putting talent in air quotes, it's probably the worst in the league. You know, even the offensive line,

I have major reservations about it in the run. I mean, this Adrian Peterson thing, I mean, come on, man. Like that chip is sailed. Darius Geis has always hurt. I don't know what he can depend on. I don't know. I mean, other than his right guard,

I don't know what he goes to battle, and one receiver. I don't know, you know what I mean? I don't know what you go into any game planning meaning he feeling good about. Like, oh, we're going to feature this guy. Really? Who are you going to feature besides Terry?

Like, who? I dare you. Try. Yeah, but that's, and that's definitely a concern. But about him, let's just say that the Redskins somehow were able to put around him what Denver's put around Drew Locke. You know, Jerry Judy, Cortland Sutton, K.J. Hamler, Melvin Gordon.

Yeah. Would you believe in Haskins? Yes. Yes. I mean, the 50 touchdown passes happened. Like, it happened in big-time college football. Like, it was real. There were people who preferred him to Joe Burrow at that time.

Like that, I mean, that. But he only played a year, and nothing has been sort of, he's had no continuum to build on since then. It's been, you know, an interim coach who didn't really seem to want much to do with him and just wanted to play rugby and run the ball 65 times, and then they hire, you know, another coach who's bringing in a different staff, and then they go through the entire offseason in the draft, and they do literally the opposite of what L.A. did.

I mean, they do literally nothing for him. I know they tried on some things, and, you know, why we really wanted. Mari Cooper. Yeah, you know, if we were to steal it. him from Jerry, well, you didn't. And so I just think it's going to be really difficult to evaluate him even through this whole season because I think he's going to be running for his life. And I think he's going to have to try to do too much just to survive.

And the defense will be better, you know, and so that might make some of these games a little more competitive, but I just, I mean, is it going to be a two-week training camp with one preseason game? You know what I mean? Is it going to be a full training camp, but no preseason games because the risk is too high. It's just the worst-case scenario, I think, for trying to develop a quarterback. And again, especially one who he only played for one year. A couple of league things, and I'll let you run, because I so appreciate the time. First of all, what did we learn from the Goodell statement

over the weekend about Kaepernick, about the anthem, et cetera? Well, it's certainly a seismic shift for the league and for them to admit that they should have listened more to players and done different things in the past when it came to this protest movement against police brutality that we had never heard language like that before I mean they were engaged in a lawsuit with this man and and throughout the whole thing we're super careful with how they chose their words and never struck an apologetic tone in any way so that was a big change and him taking his cues directly from players and not owners and responding so quickly and responding exactly as the players had asked, and it's significant.

We're also at a point where I feel like corporate America no longer views this movement as so risk-averse as something that could be so terrible for their brands, and no one wants to say the words, Black Live matters. and people won't directly talk about, you know, systematic racism and police officers killing black people in the streets because of the color of their skin. Well, you read some of these corporate statements, and some are still very milk-toast and bland and just want to say something for the sake of saying something,

but other organizations in sports and outside of sports have very much taken figs more head-on than I've seen before. So I think the corporate culture has shifted a little bit, and the NFL and some of its owners don't see this as being so quote-unquote bad for business as it might have been before. And I also think Roger, in his heart, had wished all along with some of these things were done differently and that he could have pushed and prodded and pulled some people to do more than they did, to say more than they did, to respond a little differently than they did. and now it, for me, it just begs the question of at some point this season,

is Roger Goodell taking knee with players, and I wrote a call about it this week. I think he will, because I think they're going to directly ask them. I think week one, it's going to be hundreds, if not maybe a thousand or more, if not half the league taking a knee because these problems aren't going to be fixed between now and September, and they're still going to be a move of it, and it's going to take time to enact meaningful, you know, police reforms and, and, and, you know, reforming the criminal justice system, and this is going to take years of legislation.

So the fight will still be on in September. And I can't imagine the players, don't ask Roger, you say you respect our protests. You say you're an ally. You say you want to be. Same for Drew Brees. You say that you get this. Come take a me with us, brother.

And I don't know at this point if he's asked that he could say no. How many of the owners supported the statement the other day and will support what you just described. Well, I think if anybody tried to tell you the exact numbers, they'd be lying to you, because some of these guys don't talk ever, and some aren't going to tell you what they really think. But we're now coming up on a week,

which is today, Wednesday, and this all went down Friday, so we're good five days into this. I have, have you seen any story where an owner's got a beat writer in his back pocket who's come out with a story saying, you know, with all these anonymous sources saying, you know, this ownership group is mad that Godell went rogue and, you know, he's going to, you know, that he doesn't speak for everybody. I mean, these guys all have their buddies who they can get on, you know, get on the phone and leak something to.

I haven't seen it anywhere. I haven't either, but, well, nationally. Yeah, I haven't either, but there's been silence from a lot of them. There hasn't been outward support from a significant percentage of them. Well, I'll say this. The guy who was most opposed to this the last time around, the guy who became the face of the movement in many ways, because no one on his team was kneeling.

And I remember them going on a by week, and then him coming out and throwing a Maltof cocktail in a locker room and saying, don't even think about it, you're going to get fine, there will be punishment. Nobody's going to do that with the Dallas Cowboys. We don't do that. Nobody's doing it here. And then Jason Garrett having to clean up the mess.

I haven't heard Boo about him, and he's got his own radio show, he's got, you know, plenty of pals in the media, and he could get on serious, he could get on ESPN, he could get any of he can go to the local station that he does his show with and say anything he wants. And I think in this case, with things being still in the streets and this being such a hot sort of issue,

that somebody might, if they do go out there and talk, they might really bury themselves. And I think that's probably in the back of some of these guys' minds. So I think silence is probably, Silence or, you know, some sort of statement that comes out of the PR team's office, like we support Roger Goodell, is about all you're going to get at this point. But look, a lot of these guys have so much power and so much influence. I mean, Jerry Jones was trying to run a coup to get Roger Goodell out of office two years ago.

He didn't have enough support. There weren't enough people with him, so I think he would also realize there wouldn't be enough people with him now if he wanted to do that. But I think silence speaks volumes, because these are not guys, many of whom, who have to bite their tongue, who are worried about what anybody else thinks, and they run their own fiefdoms. And so I think if I'm Roger Goodell and we're a week out, and some of the guys who were sort of banging the drum

against these protests the hardest three years ago are saying nothing, I'm feeling pretty good about that. Some of the criticism of the statement was specific to that there was no mention of Colin Kaepernick by name. Malcolm Jenkins came out yesterday and said, you know, they still haven't gotten it right. The league, I'm paraphrasing at this point, but until they apologize directly to Kaepernick or assign him to a team, they're not going to be on the right side of history. What do you think, or how do you think, Kaepernick's situation plays out with the league?

Well, they can't assign him to a team. Of course. They don't have the wherewithal to do that. the wear with all to do that. I mean, two weeks ago, I would have said what I've been saying for a long time, that he'll never work out on an NFL facility, much less play another game. Now, I would say it's still more likely than not that he doesn't play again, but I don't think it's impossible.

I think there's a needle that could be threaded there. I think there's a slimmer of a window where not just, now. But if we get into this season, and especially if it is a truncated training camp, and these offensive lines haven't really gelled at all these young offensive linemen who brought in don't have a chance to really get their feet under them for their playing, and then quarterbacks get hurt. And if it's like it was two or three, it was three years ago when the Houston Texans were bringing Brandon weed. I mean, that really is what called Kaepernick to follow the lawsuit the first places. We had that run of five or six weeks where

Aaron Rogers is down for eight weeks, and they're running Hunley and Deshaun-Chyder out there. We had Mark Sanchez in games here. Right. You guys had Sanchez, the Texans, you know, Bill O'Brien's talking a big game now. I mean, I remember them bringing Brandon Whedon and guys out of the crypt and not returning Colin Coppatic's phone calls. They wouldn't say anything to his agent. They wouldn't give him a reason.

That Mariotto was hurt again, and this was at a point where he was still an ascending player, and you thought he might be able to come back and save the season, and they were running a bunch of guys out there who had no business. There was like four or five quarterback workouts in a two or three weeks span, and he couldn't get a phone call return. So could that happen this time around? I don't know, because I think at this point, everybody who said bringing them to your building is bad for business,

you know what? You have a scenario like that, and you're bringing Brandon Wheeon and some McCown, brother, we haven't seen plays since high school out there, and, you know, you're turning to Matt Schaub to save the season. I think there'll be protest in the locker room and people on the street if we're allowed to

if things are normal in terms of your ability to move freely would be at team facilities saying why not Kaepernick and you're not going to be able to just get away with these blanket statements of you know, it doesn't fit our system or whatever I think people will be held to account

like well how do you know like you didn't even look at him like we're not saying you had to sign them but you brought five dudes in here who stink why couldn't he be one of those five guys So maybe there's an opportunity there at some point, that public pressure mounts. And some of these teams and some of these coaches who are making pretty strong statements,

if injuries strike at that position, there's going to be questions asked. Like, wait a minute, here's what you said in June, and here's what you said at training camp, and now, you know what I mean, you're down a quarterback, and you're going to tell me that this guy is not one of the best 100 guys on the planet. Like, he's not worthy of finding out. if he's one of the best 100 guys of the planet, if we're carrying, you know, if we're going to carry three guys, I mean, how long had, you guys had Josh Johnson, right?

I mean, he had played NFL football in years. He actually played pretty well. He did the AAF and that other league that folded before that and whatever, but, like, I mean, yeah, you look at some of these dudes who you're in November, and the list of available free agents is pretty thin at that position, and you're trying all kinds of dudes. I mean. There are a couple things.

Yeah, the AAF folded, and, like, Louise Perez and all these guys got signed, like, immediately. I don't even remember who Perez was. Who the hell is he? This is the, not the XFL, but when they had that AAF, they were that in season, and it folded after five games, and, like, three quarterbacks from that league got signed. And it's like, but Kaepardick, he doesn't get a workout. So we'll say, I still don't think it's incredibly likely. but I don't think it's impossible in the climate that we're in

that if we are in a scenario where you've got four or five, six quarterbacks out and every Tuesday there's this group of dudes making the circuit that maybe Colin could become part of that and if that goes well then maybe he could get signed. You know, it's funny because I think you're right with respect to sort of the corporate and the business side that that would be less of a risk this time.

But still fresh in the mind of everybody in that league is a November out of the blue workout that was unprecedented where regardless of whether or not you think the – It wasn't well done. It wasn't well done, and it wasn't well done by him. It left many with the impression that maybe he didn't really want to play when all was said and done. You know, that may be some of the issue now, too.

He's 32 years old going on 33. Yeah, I mean, look, the bottom line is if they want to be, if somebody wants to say that he was given an opportunity, then they got to let him in their facility and sit there with the stopwatch and have him run his 40, and you tell him what throws you want him to make because it's your offense,

and you write, you, you design the practice strip, because that's how it should be anyway. It should be him and his quarterback coach, and that's not how they originally wanted to do it. But I'm not going to re-litigate that whole thing. The league did a lot of backward stuff, and I think his people made some critical errors in the 48 hours before he actually started throwing

that could have been done differently. But the whole idea of that even happening because of the lack of trust between them, I think, was always a little naive and ambitious. But regardless, at some point, somebody either lets him throw for them, him, you know, or they don't. And if he doesn't look the part and if he looks like he's going through the motions,

then, you know, people are going to ask you about it and you couched out however you want. But we'll see. Again, I don't think it's likely, but things are changing. And I've seen things in this league the last week or so that I never would have thought I've seen in a million years. So who knows? Last thing, COVID-19, remember that, is still an issue. Is the NFL going to play on time? And will they have a...

I don't know. So go ahead. Give me your thoughts on that. Yeah, I just, I mean, they don't, they have lots of plans and contingencies, but which one is the most realistic? And what gets put into effect and how much they're changing on the fly and if they're having to alter roster rules and football. ball operation rules just because of the numbers game that this sport is even in the best of times.

You know, nobody knows. The scientists don't seem to know. You know, I mean, there were only a few months into this, and everybody wants long-term answers, and everybody wants solutions, and everybody wants to know best practices. But if you really follow this closely, you're reading this stuff I'm reading, I mean, a lot of the things I can remember cutting PSAs at a radio station all about, you know, all the different ways you need to clean surfaces. And now they're saying it's not very, they don't think it's easily transmitted through surfaces.

But I know, so I don't know. You know, wherever we'll be in the country, is it still going to be each state on their own by, you know, October, when it's getting colder, is there another wave? Are certain states being hit harder than others? I just don't know, but it's going to be a very real issue for these teams, because of the economy of scale. I mean, the NHL bubbles 50 people. You can't do anything with 50 people in the NFL.

You can't serve lunch to the guys at the facility with 50 people. You carry 90 to begin with. Now, I think they might get down to 75 before anybody to get in the building. But regardless, think about how many people it takes to have eight or 10 guys who all need to be taped up

or eight or 10 guys who all need treatment after practice, and then what it takes to keep the fields play a ball, and what it takes to feed these guys, and what it takes to clean 100 uniforms, and what it takes to sterilize all those helmets every night, and what it takes to move these guys around, and just all that goes into a training camp, how many people are involved,

I don't know, and so you're going to maintain 300 people bubble. I mean, they're even saying that guys are going to get sick. I mean, Falsy said this would be a perfect petri dish. to spread football players practicing and rubbing up on each other for 90 minutes. So I don't know, Kev. I don't know. I mean, I don't think any of us do. They clearly, first of all, they'll have the advantage of watching other leagues be the guinea pigs with respect to this. They've been blessed throughout this entire process of not having to shut down anything significant as of yet. With that said,

there's no way any of these leagues can go into an effort to start. start a season or resume a season, thinking that, you know, a few positive tests are going to be problematic. You know, it's going to have to take a major outbreak in some serious illness to shut it down or they might as well not do it. Well, I mean, I just, yeah, I don't know where those thresholds are. And then, I mean, if a guy gets sick and you quarantine them for two weeks or you've got five or six guys sick, how many dudes are going to be raising their hands saying, yeah, I can't wait to go there on Tuesday, you know, for my tryout to be the last guy on the roster for a couple

weeks until these dudes come off quarantine. And maybe I'll have scarring in my lungs the rest of my life, or maybe I won't. You know, like, I just... That's exactly what Laverro said yesterday. Tommy said to me yesterday, he said, here's the issue we're not considering. If a few people get sick, and we were talking about the NBA, I think specifically at the time. And, you know, you got G. league players getting called up, but even players that are already on the roster, how many of them are going to be real excited about showing up for work the next day if three guys just tested positive? We don't know what the answer to that is. But, you know. And football's next man up,

I mean, and it takes so many bodies to get through a season. And at some point, I just don't, you know, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of older coaches in the league. I just, I think they've had a remarkable run here in terms of the known cases in the NFL community versus the rest of the world and the timing of it and they've been able to proceed as business as usual. But this pandemic has changed everybody's life. And I just have a hard time thinking they're going to play a four-month season. And the only thing they're going to have to reconfigure is putting more room between guys in the locker room. I just knowing what it goes into making this happen. And I don't know, man. They will do whatever they can.

to start, I just wonder about the ability to finish. Agreed. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for spending so much time. My pleasure. I always enjoy it. And I hope. And go take care. My dog's my favorite person in my house after the last three and a half months. Favorite living being in the house by far away. Best of luck with the podcast. Hopefully we talk before season in September. Oh, good, man. Thank you. Kev. All the best of you guys. Thank you.

Thank you. Jason Lockenforah, with his dog holding off until the very last question of the interview. What a dog. What patience threw out. We heard a few barks there at one point, but great job by Jason and his dog. Real quick word about hydrant.com. Top performers in business and sports often attribute their success to their morning routine, whether it's waking up earlier, setting their goals for the day.

exercise or meditation, but not everybody's got the time to do it all. With hydrant, you can jump start your mornings. Did you know that 75% of us are walking around everyday life chronically dehydrated? We're suffering needlessly from frequent headaches, energy slumps, and poor focus. It doesn't have to be that way. You want to kick the coffee habit, but you're worried about your energy levels to avoid the morning sluggishness in that midday slump. You need to make sure you're hydrated. This is important, especially as we enter the summer months. Hydrant creates flavored electrolyte packets you mix directly into your water to make hydrating your body easy and delicious.

Each rapid hydration mix has the four essential electrolytes your body needs. Sodium, potassium, magnesium, and zinc help you hydrate quickly and stay hydrated all day long. And hydrant is backed by research. The formula was developed by Oxford scientists. to provide perfectly balanced efficient hydration. There's no synthetic colors or artificial sweeteners. The formula is vegan, and you can choose between three different flavors or a variety pack.

Hydrant starts at just a buck a packet for a 30-day supply. You can save even more with a monthly subscription. And for 25% off your first order, I want you to go to drinkhydrant.com slash sheen, S-H-E-E-H-E-H-E-H-E-H-E-H-E-H-E-H-E-H. that's drinkhydrant.com slash sheen for 20% off your first order. Drinkhydrant.com slash sheen. One last thought before we say goodbye for the day. And it has to do with the end of that conversation with Jason and about the NFL and the prospects of starting the season on time, playing a full season, a lot of unknowns as we know. Tommy and I've been talking about that. I mentioned earlier in

the show, just the World Health Organization going from asymptomatic spread being very rare to them backtracking on that yesterday. There's just going to be a lot of that over the next couple of months. We've got three months until, I think it's three months from tomorrow opening night in the NFL, Kansas City hosting the Falcons or the Texans, I think it is, the Texans in that opening game. And I had this thought off of the conversation with Tommy yesterday about the NBA, because it looks like the NBA will be the first league that we get back to playing games,

live games, real games. And part of the NBA plan, which I'm not sure I've mentioned at all on the podcast, in the event of a smaller outbreak, a couple of players on a team testing positive, is to quarantine those players and then bring players up from the G League to replace those players. and I was thinking just about how we're going to feel about watching the NBA in, you know, late July, August, in empty arenas or gyms with noise piped in from like NBA 2K or some other source. And then on top of that, exist the possibility of a playoff series between, let's just call the Lakers and the Rockets, and the Rockets lose Russell Westbrook and James Hardin to a positive test,

and they get replaced by two no-name G-League players that we've never heard of. And there the Lakers lose LeBron and Anthony Davis. I'm giving you the worst case, but let's just say that you get two teams in a postseason that have two to three starters that go out and are replaced by G-League players. players. Now, players on their bench are going to come out, come into the game and start, but just how watered down the product will be at that point. How interested are we going to be in a basketball game, a live sporting event, potentially a month and a half from now, where you've got players quarantine, G-League players we've never heard of starting, empty gyms, no spectators, fake noise

being pumped in. Our whole feeling about these games when we actually start to watch them is another big unknown. First of all, we've gotten used to no live sports, and I'm not going to suggest that we could ever get used to that in terms of the NFL. But as it relates to the NBA and the NHL and even Major League Baseball, I don't know that we're going to be so heartbroken, especially if the product that we're forced to consume doesn't really look anything like the product we used to watch. I think all of the live sports in these professional leagues are going to play out in ways that we're not even considering right now. But I guess it's better to start down that path than not start down that path. I'm not being negative. I want it. You know,

I don't feel desperate to have it like I would have a couple of months ago, but I want to want to see it. I want the, you know, leagues to learn from it. And I certainly want the NFL to start on time with full rosters, with some spectators in the crowd, so that, you know, there's a feeling of normalcy as it relates to the sports world when we get to the fall. Now, it won't be normal. If best case scenario, everybody's healthy, things are proceeding as, as, you know, everybody hoped best case was, we're still going to have the feeling that we've never had before, which is all of these sports converging on the same portion of the calendar together. They're going to be all playing at the same time.

And in the case of the NBA and Major League Baseball potentially and hockey and then the NFL in the midst of its regular season, you're going to have a lot of sports to consume on some of these weekends if it goes well. Anyway, that's it for the day. done. Tommy will be back tomorrow. Enjoy the day. Stay healthy.