The Kevin Sheehan Show - DC's Worst Disaster

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

Kevin today with some sports to start but followed by a fascinating interview with Washington Post contributor Kevin Ambrose who has written extensively over the years about the deadliest disaster in Washington DC history. Tomorrow marks the 100-year anniversary of the Knickerbocker Theatre collapse during the city's worst snowstorm ever. 98 died. 133 were injured. It was a night of chaos that brought out two war heroes, one past, one future, to assist in the rescue and recovery. Just an incredible story. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. All right, this is going to be a different show today. I'm going to do some sports here in the first segment. And then I'm going to have a guest.

His name is Kevin Ambrose. Kevin wrote a story today in the Washington Post about the city's greatest disaster, which was the Knickerbocker Snowstorm Theater disaster, which happened a hundred years ago tomorrow. Seems like we're doing a lot of looking back this week. If you missed the show yesterday on the 30-year anniversary of the Super Bowl 26 win over Buffalo, really enjoyed the conversations with Brad Edwards and then with Jake, and, by the way, with Aaron Schatz from Football Outsiders.

Just go listen to the show yesterday. I know it was long. Hopefully it was worth it. Many of you seemed to enjoy it. And also on the radio show yesterday, I had Mark. Ripon on the show. I had Jeff Bostic on the show. And this morning I had Charlie Casserly on the show. So lots of 30-year memory lane stuff as it relates to the Super Bowl 26 win over Buffalo. But today we're going to do it a little bit more. It's just not going to be sports related.

But I am convinced that many of you will really be fascinated with this story. So that's coming up next segment, Kevin Ambrose. He's an author. He's a contributor to the Washington Post in the Capitol Weather Gang. He's a storm chaser, but he's written extensively in the past about the Knickerbocker Theater disaster January 28th, 1922, 100 years ago. And it's just an incredible story. So he'll join us next. Several things to touch on here in the opening segment. of the show today. First of all, Tommy's not with me, as you can tell. He needed to move his normal day of Thursday to tomorrow.

So he will be on with me tomorrow. Hopeful also of getting Cooley on either tomorrow or Monday to either preview the two championship games or to post-game it with me. So hopefully he'll be on here in the next few days as well. There are several things I wanted to get to. Number one, did you guys see that the Wizards lost to the Clippers the other night, which was one of the all-time NBA collapses?

They led by 35 points late in the first half, 66 to 31. They had a 30-point lead at halftime. They got outscored 80 to 49 in the second half, and they lost the game 116, 115, when Luke Kennard hit a three-pointer, got fouled, hit the free throw, which completed the comeback and the epic collapse by the Wizards. However, on the NBA's two-minute report, which they post on NBA.com, I actually went late last night to check out to see if it had nothing to do with the final shot. I had mentioned, if I didn't mention this yesterday, I mentioned it on the radio show,

that I thought that the Kyle Kuzma five-second violation on the inbound pass, I thought it was a quick count. So I wanted to go see if that was included in the two-minute report. And it was, but it was ruled a correct call. So I was wrong about that. Kyle Kuzma had, with 8.2 seconds left and the Wizards up by three, all he had to do was throw the ball and get it in bounds, but he was called for a five-second violation.

And I really thought it was a very quick count, went back and watched it, and still thought it was a quick count. But the NBA's two-minute report report, concluded that it was the correct call. Interestingly, the in-bounds pass that came two seconds before that when it was 115 to 109 Wizards with a six-point lead, Justice Winslow threw it in bounds, and this was before Kinnard hit the first long three that cut it to three. Winslow's five-second violation was not called and yet it was reviewed and I went back and looked at this after looking for the Kuzma information and it looked like it should have been a five second violation but the two minute

report indicated that his inbound pass was inconclusive in terms of whether or not it was released within five seconds so therefore it wasn't a call that should have been definitely made it was just inconclusive but then what was revealed in this two minute report and I've buried the headline here, is that the final shot by Luke Kinnard, which was a four-point play that won the game with 1.9 seconds left, actually should not have counted. Here is the NBA two-minute report comment

on a play that they said was an incorrect call. Beale places two hands on Kinnard's body and makes contact with his arm prior to the start of his upward shooting motion. A personal foul should be assessed, and the basket should not count. So Beal and Dinwiddie seemed a little bit confused as to whether or not Wes Unsell Jr. wanted them to foul up three,

especially given that Luke Kinard had the ball, they probably should have been thinking to foul in that spot. Of course, you know, there's always that fine line of making sure that they have not started their upward shooting motion as to put him on the free throw line for three free throws, or worse, give up a four-point play. Beale was, didn't what he kind of reached, but missed. Beal reached, and they are saying that he made contact with his arm

prior to the upward shooting motion. To me, it looked like Beal thought he was supposed to foul, but wasn't being super aggressive, maybe in part because he didn't want to time it with Conard going up, but the NBA's two-minute report says that the shot should not have counted. Now, there would have been, you know, roughly two, two and a half seconds left. He would have gone to the free throw line for two shots, down three. Who says that he would have, you know, made the first, missed the second.

They would have gotten the rebound, kicked it out, and maybe made a three-pointer to win it. Anyway, who knows? But there you go. That was a crazy game. And we are two weeks away from the NBA trade deadline. and there's a lot of discussion about whether or not the wizards are going to be super active with players that they have, some of the assets that they have,

but really most importantly, what they will do with Bradley Beale. I think Bradley Beal stays. I had Tommy Shepard on the radio show a few weeks ago. I said, I asked him, my question to him was, you know, don't you have to know and have a commitment from Brad that he's going to sign a long long-term deal here because if he doesn't, you have to trade him and try to get back as much as you can at the trade deadline. And his answer was that there is a real relationship and a real trusting relationship and they have a sense of what each other wants. And he doesn't have to tell Brad

that, that Brad would essentially come to him and tell him before the trade deadline. I have this feeling that, well, Tommy has said that. the wife is going to make the decision in this case. And that might be true. I don't know. But that I've had this sense that Brad really does like living here. And he likes being a part of the organization. Look, you know, the truth is you'd get a lot back for Bradley Beal,

but probably not as much as you would have gotten back at the end of last year. He's not having a great year. And I'll just say about Bradley Beale what I've always always. said, because I think he is improved, and I think he's a terrific score. I think he's an elite score. I just don't think he's an elite player. I think if Bradley Beal is your highest paid player and is your best player, the best you can hope for is, you know, 42 wins and maybe, you know, a series in the postseason, a one series win. That's it. You're never going to legitimately contend for a title if Bradley Beale's your best player.

It's just not going to happen. Something else NBA related, and then I promise that it'll be it for the NBA. Did you guys see that last night, you probably didn't? Kelly Ubray Jr. remember Kelly Ubrae Jr.? drafted by the Wizards, you know, out of Kansas, a little bit immature, but always a guy that intrigued me. I thought he was really tough and competitive, and I thought he would eventually be a good player. The Wizards moved on from him.

They traded him to Phoenix. He ended up in Golden State last year, and this year he's playing in Charlotte. He's averaging like 16 points a game, something like that for, you know, the Hornets and getting, you know, off the bench 25, 26, 27 minutes a night, something like that. Well, last night, the Hornets are good also, if you didn't know that. The Hornets, I think, are four or five games over 500, something like that. Anyway, last night, Kelly Ubre in a game against Indiana on the road, scored a career high 39 points. He was 10 of 15 from behind the arc.

That also a career high 10-3s. Although he had a game like two weeks ago where he had 32 and he hit 9-3s, but last night, 12 of 18 from the floor, 10 of 15 from behind the arc, 39 points career best in 35 minutes in Charlotte's 158 to 126 win over the Indiana Pacers on the road. The 158 points that they scored on the road is the fifth most in NBA history for a road team. Fifth most. Fourth most for a road team in NBA history. 159 scored by the Houston Rockets in 2019 against the Wizards.

That game, when I saw this list, by the way, the Nationals of 1963 and the Warriors of 1990 are the teams that are tied for the most points ever by a road team in NBA history. They scored 162. The Rockets game when they came here and won the final score of the game was 159. to 157, something like that. It was a very close game. It was an overtime game, if my memory serves me correctly. And James Harden had 59 points in the game.

And Bradley Beale, by the way, went for something ridiculous in that game as well. I want to say it was like 45, 46 points in that game. Back in 2019, it says here that Houston had the fourth most for a road team. and NBA history. Here, I'm pulling up the box score right now. Let me just see. It was not an overtime game. I thought it was an overtime game for some reason. It was not an overtime game. It was 159 to 158. James Harden had 59 points, and Bradley Beale had 46 for the Wizards. It was early in the season, and good God, were they horrible on defense for that stretch. They're not that much better right now, but they were horrible.

Anyway, so lots of NFL here to talk about now. We've got the two championship games on Sunday, and we'll focus on them tomorrow. But several hires so far today, Matt Eberfluse, the defensive coordinator in Indianapolis, to Chicago to be the bear's new head coach. And the Broncos hired Nathaniel Hackett, longtime offensive guy, OC in Green Bay. Bay the last few years. And of course, everybody drawing a line from that dot to the Aaron Rogers dot, Aaron Rogers to Denver, seems like a possibility now going with Nathaniel Hackett to Denver. You know, it'd be interesting, wouldn't it? Aaron Rogers in the AFC West with Pat Mahomes and

Justin Herbert in the same division. But man, that Denver roster is a good roster. They've got so much talent offensively. Javante Williams and Melvin Gordon in the backfield. You know, Jerry Judy and Cortland Sutton and K.J. Hamler and Fant and Alberto. I mean, that team really has been a quarterback away from being legitimately competitive. Look, they weren't, I don't think they were knocked out of the playoff race until the next to last week of the season this year. And they didn't have a quarterback. You know, Bridgewater and Lock clearly not getting it done there.

So that's going to be the discussion certainly until it isn't anymore because it's happened or because it's nixed by Rogers or by some story that says that Nathaniel Hackett and Rogers weren't really even that close. Who knows? But Denver seems like the spot because Denver is one of those obvious teams that need a quarterback. There are five of them, by the way. Washington, Carolina, New Orleans, with Sean Payton gone, one of the reasons he's gone, no quarterback in a terrible cap situation, Denver and Pittsburgh. The AFC teams that are obviously in the market for a quarterback are Pittsburgh and Denver. I guess you could say maybe Cleveland and Indianapolis will be, but they're not definitely in the quarterback market. Pittsburgh and Denver are.

And then Washington, Carolina, and New Orleans in the NFC, and you could say, well, obviously say if Brady retires, that Tampa would be in that situation. And, you know, Philadelphia and New York in Minnesota because of Kirk's cap number, their possibilities. Although the Giants came out yesterday, John Merrick came out yesterday and said, Daniel Jones is their guy. You know, they hired Shane from Buffalo to be the new GM, and they both were all on board as pro-Daniel Jones guys. They haven't even hired the new coach yet. but Daniel Jones is their guy. John Maris said something to the extent of,

I'm paraphrasing right now because I don't have it in front of me, that we've screwed him too many times. We've screwed them over with multiple coaches and coordinators, et cetera, et cetera, which probably there's truth to, but they're all in on Daniel Jones. So really the five teams that are in the quarterback hunt right now, Denver, Pittsburgh, Washington, Carolina, and New Orleans. I think Denver is very attractive for any of these quarterbacks because of, well, first of all,

they've got a team that's ready to win with good quarterback play. I don't know what Nathaniel Hackett's going to be like as a head coach. I don't know. They've got the sixth most cap space in the league right now. Plus, from a trade standpoint, they've got number nine overall, which would be added to a much larger package with more first round picks for a guy like Aaron Rogers. I think Pittsburgh's pretty attractive because of Tomlin and a decent roster that just needs, you know, a good quarterback needs an offensive line as well. I think Carolina's got a pretty good roster, actually.

They hired Ben McAdoe over the weekend. We didn't mention that as their offensive coordinator, Jay Gruden, not getting the job despite getting two interviews. And I think, you know, with Christian McCaffrey and DJ Moore and some really good young talent on defense, Burns, Derek Brown, you know, Redick. etc. I think Carolina's comparable with Washington, maybe a little bit better because organizationally it's a little bit better. But then again, I think Ron Rivera is more respected around the league and by agents. But agents will tell players, like if we get into this free agency thing, and let's just say it's Mitch Tribisky to either Carolina or Washington. Good God, help us all. But Carolina, I think, is slightly more attractive. I think New Orleans is

problem. They've got major cap, you know, hell right now, even though they've got an excellent defense. Excellent defense. And oh, by the way, Michael Thomas coming back, Alvin Camara, and a pretty good offensive line. Anyway, Dan Quinn staying in Dallas. He didn't get the job in Chicago. He interviewed for a lot of different jobs. Dan Quinn's going to stay in Dallas, according to Schaefter. And I think Diana Rusini reported it as well from ESPN. And he will be the defensive coordinator with Sean Payton there a year from now when Sean Peyton sits out the year and becomes the Dallas coach next year.

That's what everybody thinks. Also, I don't know if you saw this story. Mark Maskey wrote a story in the post. I think Maskey does an excellent job reporting on league stuff. And he said there's some momentum to change the overtime rule in the postseason specifically.

I think that's what's going to happen. I think the NFL is going to change the overtime rule just for the playoffs, which is initially what they did in 2010. I think, you know, what they will do is they will create a rule. I think the best way to do it is just to play a 15-minute overtime. Just play a 15-minute extra quarter. If you're still tied, play another one. But they're going to, you know, create a rule that ensures that the team that loses the toss doesn't lose the game without having a chance on offense. Lastly, the Washington football team

employees who alleged sexual harassment have been invited by the House Committee on Oversight and Reform to a roundtable on February 3rd. That is a week from today. That is the day after 2-22 when they will have the new name. I don't know what this means really with respect to, you know, will this put more pressure on the league to release the Beth Wilkinson report or the emails. We'll talk about this more in detail with Tommy tomorrow. All right.

Subscribe to the podcast, if you haven't already, really helps us. Rate us and review us especially on Apple and Spotify. Up next, an interview that I think you're really going to find fascinating. It is with Kevin Ambrose, who wrote a story in the post today about the the city's deadliest disaster, which happened 100 years ago tomorrow. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So this segment's a little bit different than what we usually do on this podcast when it is typically sports driven, unless it's Tommy and I or Cooney and I

babbling about something only important to us. But this is something that really interests me, and I really think will interest many of you. I was sitting in my car this morning after I went to get some coffee after the radio show. And on Capitol Weather Gang's Twitter page, they are the Washington Post's weather group. They do a great job with all of their weather stuff. They sent out a link to a story written by Kevin Ambrose. Kevin is an author. He's a contributor to the Washington Post and to the Capitol Weather Gang.

and he wrote a story that appeared in the post, or at least online in the post, titled How the Knickerbocker Snowstorm became D.C.'s deadliest disaster a hundred years ago. Now, I am very familiar with the Knickerbocker Snowstorm. It's the largest snowstorm in the history of this city, 100 years ago tomorrow, and 28 inches later, it's the biggest snowstorm on record that, we have ever had. And the reason it's been called the Knickerbocker snowstorm is because of the tragedy that happened on the night of January 28th at the Knickerbocker Theater in Adams Morgan.

And that's what Kevin wrote about. And it's a fascinating story about the deadliest disaster in our city's history. Air Florida, which we talked about, Tommy and I talked about a couple of weeks ago, is number two in terms of lives lost. But Kevin joins us right now. And, you know, Kevin, before we get into the story that you wrote, and I'll have lots of questions about it, tell everybody, you know, a little bit about you, because I know that, you know, an author and a contributor to the Washington Post isn't your day job. Your day job's in technology, right? That is correct. I work for Adobe for my full-time job. And you've been writing.

and participating and contributing to the Capitol Weather Gang and to the Washington Post for many years. You're also an author. Tell everybody about the books that you've written. So my first book was published in 1993 called Great Blizzards and Snowstorms of Washington, D.C. And that was actually a very popular book. It hit a niche that no one had seen before with publishing. And it sold out quickly, several runs.

I followed that up with a New York City snowstorm book, and then Washington Weather in 2002. I wrote a book with Ian Livingston about Snowmageddon. And recently I've written two books about the Knickerbocker, Snowstorm, and the disaster. The first was basically kind of the same kind of content, which was in my article today. And the second one, which was just published in November, with family stories. The families that had members who were either a victim or survivors, these stories have been passed down through the families for generations, and they're still remembered.

And these families contacted me over the past nine, ten years with their stories. stories. So I just summarize them into a book of short stories and published that in November. Tell me real quickly, because I was mentioning this to you before we got started. I am pretty sure I have either one or maybe more than one of your books on a bookshelf somewhere in my house, because I guarantee you somebody gave it to me at some point, and I'm sure I sat there and read through it. The book on D.C. Snowstorms, what year did you publish? It was 1993. It was my first book. It's got a white cover showing an old photo of the Capitol. back in the 1930s covered in snow.

I did it the old-fashioned way with wax on paper. It was not digital publishing back then. So you, you know, at that point, obviously, for my lifetime, you had the blizzard of February of 83 in there. You had the, you know, the President's Day or the Washington birthday weekend storm of 79. Those would have been the two that I would remember. 66 was a big one. I know that. I don't remember that one. And then obviously going back to Knickerbocker, but you missed out

on some of the best storms we've ever had. My favorite being the 96 storm. True. That is in the book. My Washington Weather book, 96 was one of my all-time favorites, but living in Fairfax at the time. And it was followed by another big snowstorm a few days later. Yes, it was. Tremendous. I actually, that was my first storm chase, Kevin. I took my pickup truck, four-wheel-drive truck into D.C. after the storm, and times are different 96. Pre-9-11, I drove around the back of the Lincoln Memorial and parked on the steps on the terrace, the only place that had been shoveled. And from there, I just hiked around the mall, came back, my truck was still parked on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I backed out

and drove home. And since then, I still have been storm chasing, but oftentimes I'll take Metro now. Well, you know, it's very possible that we drove right past each other, because I'm one of these idiots that during these storms will get out and be out in it and drive in it. And usually I'm one of the only people out there. But that 96 storm, which is, I think it's my favorite in part because it came on a Saturday night. It was super cold. You know, there were no pre-sip issues with the storm. It also was very much kind of a surprise in that, you know, essentially 36 hours earlier,

it was looking very much like, you know, a two to four, three. to six inch storm. And then it's funny, Kevin, I had Sue Palka on, Sue's the long time weather person at Channel 5, 36 and a half years at Channel 5. Sue's been a friend forever. And she came on the radio show with me when she announced her retirement last week or a week and a half ago. And she's, you know, and I said, what's your favorite storm? And she said, 96. And she said, you know, I was talking to you on the phone. Well, The reason I knew Sue at the time is my first job out of college was at Channel 5 as a sports producer, where I worked for Steve Buckhands for like a year and a half, and then I got out of broadcasting all together for a while.

But I became fast friends with Sue, who was there at the time because of my weather fixation. And she said to me, she said, you called me right after the GFS came out on that Friday night before the storm, where it was printing out and it was showing like two point. five inches of QPF, which is precipitation. Kevin knows. And I just, and I told you, she said, I can't believe what I'm seeing. It's essentially showing, you know, two and a half feet of snow. And I said, no, Sue, it's going to be more than that because it's going to be a higher than 10 to one ratio because remember how cold it was. And sure enough, that night, you know, they changed the forecast. And that was my favorite. And as you said, you know, five days later, later on that

week, we got another, I think, six to ten-inch snowstorm on top of it. We did, we did. And the storm that we're supposed to have this weekend reminded, reminds me a little of 96, in that it was targeted for the southeast Virginia area, the dry water, the coast, and then it came far north and west. The difference between 96 and now, the computer models are so much better. For them to make a mistake of that magnitude, although it's obviously still possible, but very remote.

But back then, in 96 and before, you could really be surprised with huge snowstorms. In 79, the forecast was for one to three inches of snow, and we ended up getting 18.7 in the district. I was a Washington Post paper boy, all right? And that morning, I'll never forget, I woke up, I opened the door, and I'm like, oh, my God. And I was, you know, even then, as a kid, I was into weather, but it was, yeah, it was forecast. to be nothing, woke up to basically two feet of snow. Needless to say, the papers did not get delivered on that particular day. Anyway, I, yeah, it's interesting how the, it's interesting how much better the forecasting is with the models, as you suggested, but how inconsistent

from run to run each model is, Kevin, and then how different each model. Each model, sort of produces its ideas. And to me, the complexity for real weather forecasters, not fake, you know, forecasters like me, how difficult it is for like Doug or Sue or Topper, the people, you know, like West Juncker and Ian at Capitol Weather Gang, because they rely strictly on the models now and they change so much. Do you agree or disagree? I do agree, but it depends.

on the weather situation. For example, the storm this weekend has been terrible. They're jumping around like crazy. But if you go back to 2016, they nailed our blizzard, you know, five days beforehand. Some weather patterns are very simple to model and simulate. Others have a lot of chaos and moving parts involved like this weekend. And really, it could change. First forecast is going to change up until the time it starts snowing, if it even snows. One model shows even missing us. But we think it fascinating. It makes it fun, too, as a weather watcher, to think that maybe this could be a huge forecast bust,

and we could get it, you know, eight or nine inches of snow. But most of the time, the models get at least pretty close. And you can take the middle ground between all the different various models. And some forecasters will cut it in half just to be conservative. A casual weather gang is very conservative. But it's fun to watch. And you're right. There's still, even with computer technology today, there's still a lot of inconsistencies.

Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned the January 16th storm because that one got sniffed out super early. It was a week in advance. I think the Euro had it and then everybody sort of was in agreement. But as you said, and we're going back much further, the 96th storm was very much a surprise, you know, up until about 24 hours before it started in the 79 was a shocker. So I want to talk about the story that you wrote about the Knickerbocker snowstorm and disaster of 100 years ago tomorrow, January 28th, 1922. This city's worst disaster in terms of people killed.

98 people were killed. 133 were injured. Kevin, I'll let you tell kind of the story, the story of the theater, the story of the storm, and then I'll get to some of the questions I have. But go ahead. Tell everybody what happened 100 years ago, January 28th, 1922. So on that date, we had,

a snow storm that dropped 20 inches, 28 inches of snow in D.C. And the Nicarbocker Theater was built in 1917, and it was the most modern and luxurious theater of the time. It was, in my article I wrote it was the Titanic of theaters. And it had a flat roof, and the snow accumulated over two feet on the flat roof, and the building codes of the early 20s and late teens were not strict. And literally, the roof was just laid on top of the brick walls. No reinforcement. steel beams on top of brick.

And what had happened over time, even though it was a few years, five years, the beams had shifted back and forth with the expanding and contraction of steel with cold and warm temperatures. And at some points, the steel support beams for the roof had only a few inches of brick supporting the roof.

So that night, during the featured film, literally at the opening scene of the featured film, it's called Get Rich's Quick Wallingford. It was a comedy. the roof started to sag down the middle. And the steel beams and trusses didn't break. They just started bending. And a crack formed right across,

and plaster started coming down onto the audience with the orchestra that were performing. And the members of the audience didn't know what was happening. Even a dust cloud formed over the orchestra. And as the roof started sagging deeper in the middle, the crack opened wider, and then chunks of ceiling plaster started falling. There were a few people in the audience who kind of freaked out and ran and took cover in the lobby.

But almost everyone, close to 300 in attendance, sat in their seats and just watched the film in the orchestra as the ceiling was splitting down the middle. Ultimately, the brick started cracking on the inside edges of the wall, and at one split second, the entire roof collapsed at once and fell downwards. And it was a worst case in a narrow because think of the entire roof, coming down as one flat surface and not breaking into pieces. And it created so much air pressure that it blew out the windows and doors. It actually blew some people out into the lobby. When it hit the balcony and the opera boxes, they collapsed. So you have the opera boxes, the balcony, the roof all falling to the ground at a high rate of speed. And it was just awful. It went from wall to wall all the way to do the stage. A big hunk of plaster, concrete, and steel

hit the ground. And what didn't appear in my article, which I find fascinating, it was edited out at the last minute. The roof buckled and folded as it fell. So when it hit, there were actually air pockets where it folded up. And when the rescue workers dug through, they found people completely unhurt, unharmed. One guy was found sitting up in his chair, eyes wide open, not a scratch, he was dead from a heart attack. It just freaked him out so bad. But most of the people were either crushed or badly injured. So Nanyate were killed, 133 injured. And some of them, and I wrote this in my article, and I did this through research,

it was not in the media at the time. The people were crushed terribly. George Patton, who was a rescue worker, said to like three or four inches thick. That's how badly they were crushed. So they were unrecognizable. And the family members would go to the morgue literally had to recognize them by the clothing they were wearing of the personal possessions like watches. And some stayed at the morgue for days because it took so long for the family members

to even remember. It was just a horrible, horrible disaster tragedy. It made worldwide news. And the reporter who wrote the article for the Washington Post instantly became famous and was offered a job at Newsweek a couple years later just because of its coverage of the Nicarbocker Theater disaster. What was his name? His name was John Jay Daly. And his family had contacted me with his story after my first Nicarbocker book was published in 2013. Okay, I want to go through this a little bit chronologically.

First of all, this storm, the Knickerbocker storm, which by the way is still the biggest snowstorm in the history of our town, 28 inches fell. And that was, you know, I don't even know where they measured for snow in 1922. Obviously, it wasn't, it wasn't National Airport or Reagan National. But wherever they measured, it was 28 inches. That is still to this day for D.C. our largest snowstorm. about that, right? That is correct. It was measured northwest D.C.

on one of the hills. Okay. So now that it's measured down on the floodplain of the Potomac River, it's a different microclimate. To get 28 inches down there is a lot harder to get 28 inches in northwest D.C. Yeah, I think, you know, anybody that follows weather around here understands that the, you know, the snow totals that are reported at Reagan National are always well below what, you know, is typical for even probably within a few blocks of the airport.

But anyway, we digress. So on the evening of January 28, 1922, this theater and this show, tell me about the storm. Tell me when the storm started and was the storm over? Was the snow already piled up 28 inches deep on top of the roof? Was it still in the midst of a storm? Tell me about when the storm started, et cetera. But good question. It started on the 27th during the late afternoon evening.

And by noon on January 28th, 18 inches of snow had already fallen. By the time the show was starting at 9 p.m., over 2 feet had fallen. The storm continued into the following morning, early morning hours where 28 inches was measured, January 29. So it was a very long duration of events, kind of much like 2016 was or Snowmageddon was. Right. The best kind. Unfortunately, this. ended in tragedy. What was the, you wrote about this, but I want you to tell everybody, tell everybody on January 27, 1922, because the storm started at noon that day, what the forecast was? So the forecast, obviously, they didn't have satellites or computer models. It was a chance of rain or

snow. And then the forecast for the following day was snow probable. It was not, there was no warning or alarm sent that this was going to be a big snowstorm. It wasn't until late morning on the 28th that people were like, wow, look at this. And even at that point, it was big news for D.C. A snowstorm of that caliber, and the media went out and took lots of photos of the snow. So there's tremendous numbers of photos of the storm itself before the disaster occurred. So one of the- Of course, there's plenty of photos of the disaster, too.

So one of the things I find interesting, first of all, the forecast, which, you know, I mean, I'm old enough now to remember forecast, you know, Gordon Barnes on Channel 9, you that there was going to be six to ten inches of snow, boys and girls, you don't have to do your homework, and waking up the following morning with kind of the hazy sunshine and green grass. You know, that was the worst. But the forecast was off, but I'm also curious, why was the theater open? I mean, didn't things close during a blizzard like that? I mean, how did they get 300 people in that kind of a storm, two feet, already on the ground? and it's still raging.

Why was the theater open? So Saturday night was when it occurred. It was comedy night, most popular night at the theater. And the theater could hold over 1,500 people. Wow. So 300 is a fraction, yes. So they walked. I mean, a neighborhood was a bustling, busy neighborhood,

and almost every single person walked to the theater. And the orchestra, this is a very interesting fact that didn't make the article but made my book. The orchestra leader. had upwards of 20 musicians. But because of the stormers, musicians were having a hard time getting to the theater. So he had to go and basically call on all of his local musicians to walk to the theater. And he got 11 of the 20 to walk.

He even got some poor guy named Joseph Beale. He was on his honeymoon. He just come back and had him play because he needed a musician, he needed a violinist. And poor Joseph Beal was crushed and killed. You know, four days after he was a man. married. A very sad story. The orchestra leader was also killed, and his brother was injured. The media swapped the names, and the wife of the orchestra leader ran to the hospital or trudged to the hospital

in the snow, only to find the brother and learn that her husband had been killed. And she collapsed on the floor, and that made a new story of the day as well. So lots of drama and sadness with that whole event. Heartbreaking. All right, let's take a break. There's more. I've got so many questions. Kevin Ambrose joining us right now, recounting the night 100 years ago tomorrow, the Knickerbocker Snowstorm Theater disaster, the deadliest disaster in this city's history. So this theater held 1,500, 300 people showed up in a raging snowstorm with already two feet on the ground. The name of the show that was playing that night was Get Rich Quick Wallingford. You put that in your article. Just tell me real quickly, because you mentioned the orchestra, and you talked about the orchestra and the music.

Is that, are we in Charlie Chaplin's silent movie times where you, I mean, what kind of show, what kind of movie was it where there's an orchestra playing music? That is exactly right, Kevin. It was a silent film, and it was the heyday of silent films where you got the best musicians, band leaders to play music in the theaters to accompany the action. They actually choreographed their music to the tempo of the scene. So it was like half concert, half movie. And the movie, Get Rich Quick Wallingford was a comedy. It was about some con men who see the wrong in their ways. The movie has since been lost.

No one knows where the movie is the book still exists. But, yeah, the music was a huge part of the show. And that's why the orchestra leader was so worried that he wouldn't have enough band members or orchestra members there to perform. Wow. I forget if you mentioned it at the beginning of this. The theater for those that don't know was in Adams Morgan. It was on 18th in Columbia in the heart of Adams Morgan. And that is a huge theater. And I've seen your story in the post and I've seen pictures of it before the theater. And you can tell it was a big theater. And as you mentioned, a flat roof. So you already described, you know, what happened. Obviously it was the way to the snow. and it was a heavy wet snow because, what, temperatures were probably right around 32? So a good question. This temperature started out at 25, and the snow originally, the start of the storm was dry, but the temperature creeped all the way up to 31 degrees through the last half of the storm.

So, yes, it was a very wet, heavy snow. 3.02 inches of liquid content, which is tremendous for a snowstorm. Right. So this is where to me, I mean, the tragedy has happened. And obviously, you know, of the people that were killed, probably many of them, right, almost instantaneously. The weight of that roof and the fact that it fell the way it did, I'm assuming that of the 98 killed, a lot of them, I mean, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but I'm assuming a lot of them it happened almost instantaneously. Yes, a lot instantaneously, especially those seated under the balcony. When they were crushed to the point, they were unrecognizable.

It was in a second. But what is really sad to hear is when the rescue workers first came into the theater, the whole place was filled with moans and cries and wailing. There were a lot of horribly injured and dying people under the rubble. They weren't even visible, but you could hear it coming through. And the cries for help and the moans of pain led the rescue workers to different people, showed them where to start digging. and unfortunately, many died later, even in the hospital from their injuries.

So, yes, many died quickly, but others didn't. All right, so tell me, so this is where, to me, it gets kind of interesting, too. It's 1922. There's a raging snowstorm going on. How does the word get out that this tragedy's happened? The phone was actually in existence with operators who would plug, you know, If you remember the old style, a phone call would come in. They'd have to move the cord and plug it into the patchboard.

That's how it was done. And what ended up happening is an interesting story that made the post the day after the disaster. When they got the first call that the disaster happened, these operators knew where the doctors lived. They knew the hospitals. And they divided the whole city up between the group of operators. And they made the calls proactively into each hospital, each doctor, police station, fire departments to say, hey, this disaster occurred. Meanwhile, Persian, who was from World War I fame, was in the neighborhood, saw what happened. He called his military leaders in various forts, told him to send the soldiers

on down to help with the rescue. And the Marines from 13th and I walked with packs for, I don't know, a mile or two, and arrived first. George Patton at Fort Meyer, organized several hundred soldiers, took trucks, and his army trucks got stuck in the snow as soon as they crossed with the Pomey River. So they went back for the Army mules. They attached teams of Army mules to the Army trucks, and they pulled all the soldiers up to the theater, and they didn't arrive to like 2.30 that night. But, yeah, Patton of World War II fame was one of the rescue workers. That was my next question. Are you actually talking about old blood and guts? Old blood and guts, yes, exactly, and he was not well known then.

And his daughter wrote about that event in her memoirs, and it was so fascinating because was what he got home, and this is so typical of old blood and guts, the first thing he told his young daughters who were like age seven and nine was the gory details about how the people looked and how he was pulling on this one woman, her head came off. Oh, my God. And his wife Beatrice said, George, don't tell those girls those kind of details.

They're way too young. And his response, which was written down by his daughter, was B, goddamn it. They have to know these things happen in life. They can't go through all of life with blinders on. that was so typical patent. I mean, we're now, I mean, we're obviously at that point 19 years away from entrance into World War II. And for him, you know, leading the allies on the, in the European fight, I mean, he was, you know, 20 years away from that. So how old, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I've seen the movie many, many times, and I'm trying to guess that he was probably in the 50s when he was in the war, you know. somewhere around there. So he's probably in his 30s, right? Yeah, yeah, he's got young daughters. I did research on what he was doing at that time, and he was kind of bummed out. There was no war going on, and he got into polo and horses,

and that became his focus before World War II came along. And he was not well-known back then. Oh, I saw only one article in all of the media that mentioned his name as taking charge of the rescue effort, because he was just not known, and I didn't even know that he participated until one of the Washington Post readers contacted me and told me about him, and then I started digging into it.

Sure enough, his letters to his father, the memoirs of his daughter, they all mentioned this Bickerbocker theater disaster that he had participated in. Well, when I... He was sick. He was sick at the time. Yeah, you said that he wasn't feeling well.

When I read your story and you mentioned, you know, Army Major General George Patton, you didn't mention that it was the George Patton. which I thought was interesting. And so I just figured, well, maybe it was just another one until you just said it. But you also said that General Pershing from World War I, the General Pershing was also in the area, and he was a part of the rescue as well? He never actually, I think, dug through the wreckage.

He was older by then. But he was a Washington socialite, and he was in the neighborhood when it happened. And he was the one who called the military commanders to mobilize an effort. and he was the one who wanted the military to lead the rescue effort, which ultimately they did. And he got all the soldiers there in no time flat. And there's a photo in Washington's Historical Society that looks just like Pershing, you know, surveying a victim. And I think it is him. So he was there on the scene of the disaster.

How difficult was it? Even though it was communicated fairly quickly and you said that, you know, basically a lot of the military arrived there at 2.30 a.m. The show started at 9 p.m. The disaster happened almost immediately after the show started. So, you know, in those conditions with, you know, obviously vehicles, you know, being used, how were they able to get through that weather, get through the roads, and get people to hospitals? They, you know, I've thought about that. They got the ambulances there. and somehow they cleared enough of the snow or packed it down enough with their vehicles

that they were still able to transport the people to the various hospitals later into the storm. The storm was tapering off by the time the disaster happened. So it wasn't like the roads were getting worse. They were getting better with the efforts to clear them. And back then, they had armies of shovelers that would go out and clear roads. So they could make some progress,

and ultimately they had to call in heavy equipment from the Navy Yards. So that had to be hauled all the way to the theater, too, because the wreckage from the balcony was so heavy. It could not be lifted. They needed hydraulic jacks to be assembled to basically get these pieces of rubble off of the victims. Wow. And it took 24 hours to dig out some of the victims. Over a day later, some of them were still buried.

Well, and I would imagine, you know, 98 killed 133 injured, that not everybody that was injured that survived was fast. found right away either, and there they were because, you know, it then turned, it had to turn frigid cold for some of the survivors who were trapped in that theater, right? You're right. Yeah. They ultimately could have died of exposure, given the amount of time it took to get them dug out. And there are stories that they could see and hear some of the victims under the rubble, but they couldn't lift it. There were small holes, and they would send small boys crawling through these tunnels of the rubble with opium pills to some of these people in pain to make them feel better until they could get dug out later.

Can you imagine today spending kids that would have asked a thing like that? That would never happen. Let alone with like fentanyl. I don't think that would happen. Wow. So how, I mean, of the people that survived did any, did any, I mean, it must have. have been an incredible trauma. I mean, was there follow-up done on the 133 survivors? Like, were they able to live a normal physical life? And then mentally, the anguish, et cetera,

did you down the road, what were the ramifications of surviving that? It very greatly. There was one of the band members who lost an arm and lost his brother, never got over it. And obviously, he couldn't play music again because he lost one of his arms. So he had a very sad life, but he still had a kid and lived his life to 70s. There was one Girl Scout leader who was thrown from an opera box, hurt very badly, made a full recovery. Her date was killed, but she rebounded very quickly. She was given an award at the White House Rose Garden by Harding's wife and got married and had a wonderful life, helping with Girl Scouts of America. So it varied by the person, of course, and also who maybe of a family member would have

been lost. Survivors that had, like, family members, some, like kids had their parents killed, those really had a hard time moving on and going on with their life. Was there liability for the builder, the architect, the theater? It was a great question. Immediately, the architect was charged with manslaughter, but the building codes weren't strict, and they proved in court that the building of the Dickabocka Theater complied to codes. So they blamed it on an act of God, the snowstorm, which ultimately did pull down the roof, but the design was poor. Ultimately, the snowstorm itself led to building codes getting improved quickly. So in that respect, it helped. Building codes became

much, much better. The architect, Reginald Gear, while cleared of all manslaughter charges, was blamed by everyone for it, nevertheless. He could never find another job. His career was ruined, and he fell into depression, and years later, two years later, he killed himself. Oh, my God. Turn the gas on in his bedroom. His wife found him.

Very sad. And the owner, Harry Crandall, did the same. Ten years later, turned the gas on in his apartment, kill himself, too. So they say there's the curse of the Knickerbocker. The Knickerbocker curse follows people and buildings that have ever been associated with that original theater. And it's halfway a joke, but there is, some people say that there is a curse because there

are a lot of tragedy and sadness followed that event for many many years. The architect took his own life, you said two years later, in your story, I think I remember it was like five years later or something like that. I'm sorry, it was five years later. Okay. Just 1927. And then the owner of the theater took his life 10 years after the tragedy. By turning the gas.

10 years after year, yeah, yeah. So it was 1937 by turning on the gas. You mentioned, so Warren Harding was in the White House, you know, not super far away. What was the presidential response? Was there one? Yeah, there was a short of sadness of, I can't remember the exact wording. And his wife then became involved in, you know, giving awards and, you know, giving awards and praise to the rescue workers and the victims who helped,

including that Girl Scout leader. So not a lot was written about it. It wasn't, you know, like he was photographed on the scene, like we see now presidents going to scenes of hurricanes. But at least he made a statement, yes. Did kids have school on Monday, or were they out the entire week? I'm kidding. What did the storm do from there?

I mean, I read it, but I'll let you tell it, because that kind of storm typically ends up being a massive noreaster for all of the major cities of the Northeast. What happened after it hit D.C.? So it moved out to sea and spared New York and Boston. And typically our biggest heavy snowstorms, including Snowmageddon, including 2016, are blocked by a big high-pressure system. So they can't go up the coast. They have to almost get stalled, blocked, and they kind of squeeze slowly out to the east. and that's what the Knickerbocker snow did. Boston got zero, no snow from the storm.

What was the largest recorded snowfall total in the area? Rock Creek Park at 32 inches. That was the largest amount that I saw. 32 inches in Rock River. And then if you go down towards Manassas, they had in the 30s as well reported. An amazing, I mean, an amazing time. This really is, and a lot of people that are listening, don't know. This is the disaster. I mean, we just, you know, spent time last week talking about the 40-year

anniversary, amazingly 40 years since the Air Florida crash. But in terms of toll, you know, life lost in injury, this was it, the Knickerbocker Theater disaster, January 28, 1922. I mean, I would assume that other than, well, I mean, I would assume that other than, well, I mean, I mean, obviously 9-11 at the Pentagon and Air Florida. These are all the, you know, these are the biggest tragedies, right, in terms of life lost in the history of our city. Yes, and the Pentagon was Virginia, so that was not put in the same category as D.C., but I find interesting that both Air Florida, which 78 were killed and the Nicarbocker,

98 were killed. The two biggest disasters in D.C.'s history were caused by snowstorms, which is very ironic. Yeah, I mean, we were talking about it, and I didn't remember everything perhaps accurately, and I bet you do, but the Air Florida crash really was, you know, a big snowstorm, you know, cold, de-icing happened, you know, at the gate, plane sat on the runway for a while, snow continued to fall, ice built up, it messed with the, you know, internal systems. And I'm assuming you know, because you really do sound like a historian, but on this stuff, especially weather-related events. but wasn't that a significant event in the way that de-icing took place in the airline industry after that crash? It was. They improved their procedures and rules a lot after that crash, and it was just a bad decision on the pilot because he knew a lot of time had passed by, but he also knew if he had to go back for more de-icing, he'd give up his spot in line

and have to wait another hour to take off. So he just went for it. And the snowstorm was about six inches, but it fell only in a few hours. It was a real heavy dump of snow. So a lot of snow was able to build up on the plane. During that time, it was waiting and taxing to take off. And because the pilot didn't want to go back or de-icing, the plane never achieved altitude and hit the 14th Street Bridge. Yeah, and back then, they only de-iced at the gate. Exactly, yes.

I would urge everybody to read this story, the Washington Post, Kevin Ambrose, the story of the Baker-Bacher theater disaster a hundred years ago. I can only imagine 1922, 28 inches of snow, a theater collapsing, the chaos of that night and the days that followed. Kevin, thanks so much. I really enjoyed it. Oh, you're very welcome, Kevin. Enjoyed it. Kevin Ambrose, everybody. You can follow him, by the way, on Twitter at DC Stormchaser. The story is absolutely, worth the read. I've been fascinated with the Knickerbocker storm over the years. The details of the actual

tragedy where the theater collapsed. I was somewhat familiar with, but not in detail. I mean, you know, to have, by the way, as part of the story, him to just kind of casually mention that the rescue effort continued with Army Major George

Patton as a part of it. When I read the story this morning, I'm like, I wonder if that's the George Patton, if that's the General Patton, Old Blood and Guts. But he didn't mention it in this story. So I didn't think it was him. I figured if you were going to mention Army Major George Patton that you would have probably said that's actually the General Patton. But really interesting, interesting story about the worst tragedy in the history of this town in terms of Lives Lost Air, Florida was second. And it's a great read. It's an interesting read.

And they are the Capitol Weather Gang, which he's a contributor to, they posted on Twitter today that there will be two remembrance events for the Knickerbocker centennial, both in Adams Morgan. There's a Friday night candlelight vigil and there's a centennial commemoration Saturday at noon as well. I will retweet the Capitol Weathergangs information on that if you're interested from at Kevin Shan, D.C. Okay, that's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy.