The Kevin Sheehan Show - Deebo Samuel: "Commanders Make Most Sense"

Episode Date: March 1, 2025

Kevin opened with a bunch of emails/tweets which included an interesting take on the name...."Redskins". An NFL analyst believes that Deebo Samuel to Washington makes "the most sense". Kevin's reaction to that along with thoughts on Matt Stafford staying in Los Angeles and what the Giants QB move might be. Chris Knoche joined Kevin to talk Maryland Basketball and to give his perspective from courtside the other night on the 60-foot shot that beat the Terps.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Window Nation is the presenting sponsor of this podcast. Call them if you need new windows. 86690 Nation or Windonation.com. Mention my name.

They'll give you a free in-home estimate. One guest on the show with me today. Chris Nocki is going to jump on in the final segment. Naki was on the radio call, courtside Wednesday night with Johnny Holiday and Walt Williams for the Terps' heartbreaking loss to Michigan State. Maryland's at Penn State tomorrow in need of a win. They're searching for that double-by in the Big Ten conference tournament to achieve that. They've got to finish in the top four. I think if they win out, they've got three games left.

They would likely finish in the top four. that would put them one game away from the semifinals in the Big Ten conference tournament. They have not been to the semifinals since the second year they were in the league. They made the conference semifinals in their first year in the Big Ten and in their second year in the Big Ten, both times losing to Michigan State in very close games. They have not been back to the Big Ten semifinals since their second year in the league. They've not had a lot of success in March, period. A lot of regular season success to speak about, but not much in March.

Hopefully this coming March it changes. Big one for them tomorrow at Penn State. Before Naki, Debo Samuel to Washington. One ESPN.com columnist believes that Washington is the best landing spot for the 49ers wide receiver. We'll talk about that. We'll also discuss Matt Stafford staying in Los Angeles. That always seemed to make the most sense to me.

But it also means that one NFC East team is still riding the quarterback carousel. The Giants were very interested in Matt Stafford. And this morning there were reports that the Raiders and the Giants were front runners for Matt Stafford. Who are the giants going to turn to? Well, they may not have to turn that far if some of the reporting out there is accurate. We'll get to that in the second segment. A bunch of emails and tweets to open up this show. This from Josh. Josh writes Kevin, Wednesday night at Xfinity Center was as good of a crowd as I've seen, but I can't help but think that it actually hurt Maryland. They were clearly never settled in and looked terrible all night. Josh, stay tuned for my

conversation with Chris Snocky because I've already recorded it and we talked about this. I think you're right. I think that Maryland was affected by the incredible electricity in that arena as much as Michigan State was. This from Sam T. Sam T. Sam T. writes, Kevin, I'm a Michigan State alum living in the DMV for the last 10 years. I was at Xfinity Center for the game on Wednesday night. Over the years, I've heard you call it the best live game atmosphere in the DMV. You're not kidding. On its best nights, it's the best home court in the Big Ten and one of the best in the country. Sam also goes on to talk a little bit about the skins and some of his ideas for free agency. But Sam, it is. It's always been that. I've tried to convey that over the years, and I've had people, you know, say to me,

you know, I took your advice, Kevin, and went to see Maryland play, expecting this great atmosphere. And there just wasn't. I mean, they beat Coppin State by 30, but the atmosphere wasn't that great. Yeah, Maryland's fan base has changed over the years. You know, we've had discussions about this in the past. I think the move to the Big Ten made everything feel different. I think the results in March over the last many years have had something to do with that as well. Maryland's won a lot as much as anybody in the regular season other than Michigan State and Purdue over the years in the Big Ten. but yeah, it's a different fan base.

And you don't get those true special experiences, but a few times a year, sometimes only once or twice a year. And they've got to be good, and the game has to feel like it's a big game. The opponent's got to be a good one. But when you get those nights, man, it is something to behold. I saw that Sam Decker. Sam Decker played at Wisconsin. Cons and he played in the NBA for a few years. In fact, he played with the Wizards, I think, for a year or two.

He retweeted some of the crowd tweets from College Park Wednesday night that went viral. And he said, basically said, Maryland was one of the coolest environments he'd ever played in. And you got a lot of that from various former players about what they watched on Wednesday night. This from Dan, Dan thinks a little bit differently. Dan writes, Kevin, Maryland stinks. They never win big games at home, and they have the most obnoxious fans in the Big Ten. I went to Michigan, and Big Ten fans feel the same way about Maryland fans as Duke fans feel, as well as the rest of the ACC.

Maryland fans are rude, offensive, and lack class. Dan, I will remind you that we don't always lose those games. We beat Michigan in the 2020 season finale at XFinity Center to clinch a share of the Big Ten regular season championship. There have certainly been those comments made about the Maryland fans in College Park, and they were made all the time by fans in the ACC. And some of that is true. You know, you're not totally wrong, Dan.

Some of that is true, but some of that is part of its charm on its really good nights. All right, changing subjects. This from Jordan. Jordan writes, Kevin, the tush push should be banned. A lot of people cite, don't ban a play just because it's very good, but that's not the reason it should be banned. The critics of the tush push should call out the fact that it's bad for enter. entertainment value. The most engaging moments in a football game are third and shorts, fourth and ones. By having a virtual unstoppable play on the menu, it takes all the wind out of the balloon

for those high drama moments that should be hair straight up on the back of your neck moments. Criticize and go after the entertainment aspect and I think it gets banned. Yeah, you know, so we talked about this, I think, earlier in the week. I know I spent some time on this on radio, Jordan, but there is some discussion about, you know, potentially altering or eliminating the play. Now, we'll see what happens at the league meetings at the end of March. You know, they're going to look at the overtime rule. Looks like they may decide in 2025 to go to.

a 15-minute overtime with both teams being guaranteed possession of the football, aka the playoff overtime rule. I think we're going to get that starting next year. We're getting technology for first-down measurements, not for spotting of the ball, but just for quickly letting referees know if the spot of the ball is a first-down or not. And we may get some tweaks to the kickoff rule as well. but the tush push is going to be looked at.

And I think you're right. I think you're 100% right about the entertainment value of the play. But that's not necessarily the only argument against the play. Hopefully the injury factor, the risk of the play ends up being a big deal, because that's what the NFL always acts upon. But I've mentioned too recently that it's not just a one-off play. sometimes it's back-to-back plays that you get that really make it kind of slow down the game. You know, a third and two and a half, or even a third and three, can sometimes be push, push, push.

That's not what we should be watching, in my opinion. I don't like the play, period. I think it looks like a rugby play. I don't like the near certainty of the play. I also thought that the scene in the championship game at the end of the season in the NFC with Frankie Louvo going off sides and the fact that we found out that a touchdown could be awarded is a joke. Defenses have to come up with ways to stop that play. They're going to have to get creative and they should be allowed to get creative even if it means risking a penalty on back-to-back or back-to-back-to-back plays. That should be one of the reasons to ban this, not to create a rule penalizing the defense trying to stop it.

I think, you know, everything about this play is not good. It's not entertaining, Jordan, as you pointed out, it might be a health and safety risk. And I think part of what they should really emphasize those that are against it, like Mark Murphy, the president of the Packers, is that we're not talking about just an occasional. fourth down and one. We're talking about third and two followed by fourth and one. That's just tough to watch. Let's bounce around here because I really got caught up on emails and tweets today. From Jeff, your comparison of Ovechkin's achievement to baseball coming back or to Snyder selling the team is apples to oranges.

One is an individual achievement. The others are group efforts. Ovechkin breaking his record is the number one individual achievement in D.C. sports history. Yeah, we didn't separate individual from, we just call, the category of discussion was sports stories associated with the four major pro sports teams in D.C. That were not game related. So, you know, obviously the biggest stories are championships, Super Bowls, World Series, Stanley Cup titles, NBA titles. That one was a long time ago. I would agree with you that if we were talking about individual achievement, certainly individual record, that would be number one by far.

By the way, he didn't score last night in their second loss in consecutive nights, right? nights? No, maybe it was two nights ago. They lost to Calgary and then last night to St. Louis. This from William. William writes, greetings, Kevin. Just a trivial point, please. While Abe Poland certainly deserves the accolades he has received for building the arena in Chinatown, I rarely hear the full story. In short, he was compelled to take that risk because he miscalculated in his assumption that the bullets, Baltimore fans, would follow the team down the beltway. That would be, by the way, down to the beltway, down 95 to the beltway. That's why the initial name was the Capitol Bullets. You can verify this by reviewing the reporting

of that time. I was assigned to this area in the mid-1970s and followed sports in the Post and the star, the Washington star. Yeah, I'm not going to disagree with you. I don't know the story behind the Capitol bullets. That makes a lot of sense to me. They were the Baltimore bullets forever. He chose to build the arena in Landover, which, you know, in PG County, close to actually just beyond the 95 interchange, beyond the 50 interchange. So he called them in that first year the Capitol Bullets. It's one of my first memories as a kid is the bullets moving from Baltimore to Washington and being called the Capitol Bullets.

That makes sense. Now, in terms of, you know, Baltimore fans not following the bullets to Landover, I think in the early years there probably were a lot of Baltimore fans that came down to see the games. I don't know that for a fact. But I think the bullets have always been Baltimore's team. I know that the following, even when they've had a passionate following, wasn't as big in Baltimore as it was in the D.C. area. But I think Abe, you know, I don't know that Abe just moved to Chinatown

because Baltimore fans didn't follow the bullets to Landover. But I don't think that, I think that's a separate conversation from, the reason he built the arena in Landover was hoping that Baltimore fans would follow the team there. But thank you for that. This from Paul. Paul writes, John Allen had a B-minus career at best, hampered by two shoulder injuries in college and probably overdrafted.

Now let's do something about it. Let's send him in a trade package to Cleveland or Las Vegas for Miles Garrett or Max Crosby. Yeah, sure, Paul. Let's send our overdrafted, overrated, B-minus career aging veteran to Cleveland or Las Vegas for two A-plus players in the primes of their careers. I know that's not what you're suggesting, but you can't view trash for treasure when you're contemplating trades. I understand that you'd have a number of draft choices in there. And by the way, I would never describe John Allen as trash. I think his career was A-minus in Washington. I don't think it was B-minus. He had two Pro Bowl appearances. He had some very good seasons here in the midst of chaos. I mean, let's be honest. I mean, he played for the most dysfunctional organization in the league. And in terms of being overdrafted, when you go back and look at the 2017 draft, he was in the moment thought to be under-drafted at 17 overall. He was projected to go much higher than that.

But when you look at what came after him in that draft, the player that stands out the most, many teams passed on. T.J. Watt went at the end of that round at 30 to Pittsburgh and is a Hall of Fame player. Obviously, it would have been better had they drafted T.J. Watt or a guy like Buda Baker who went early in the second round. But all of the players that went right after John, none of them have really had the career John's had. There are a couple of guys that have had as many Pro Bowl appearances. Evan Engram made two Pro Bowls. I had no idea that Evan Engram made two Pro Bowls. And so did Tredavius White.

But I think if you look at that second half of the draft in 2017, John Allen was the second best player in the first round in the second half of the draft. I know I'm digging deep here. But in terms of the players that went after him, Dory Jackson, O.J. Howard, Garrett Bowles, Jared Davis, Charles Harris, Evan Engram, Conley, Oakland, one of the all-time busts. Jibrill Peppers, try to get that out quickly. Tchaurs McKinley, Tradavius White Taco Charlton, David Najoko,

went at 29 before Watt did. Yeah, I would put in the second half of that first round, T.J. Watt won, clearly. In fact, in that draft, you'd go Patrick Mahomes won, Miles Garrett 2, he was the number one pick, T.J. Watt, 3, Christian McCaffrey, 4. That draft had Garrett, McCaffrey, Mahomes, and T.J. Watt in it. It also had Marshaun Latimore in it. It also had Hassan Reddick in it. in the first round. Okay. Corey Davis, five overall in that draft.

That was a bust. Solomon Thomas, really a bust at number three overall. And Mitch Trubisky number two in that draft. I mean, you would never draft Mitch Trubisky number two in a draft ever again. And don't forget, Chicago traded up a spot with San Francisco to take Mitchell Trubisky. All right. Next email comes from Stephen H. Stephen H. subject heading, Tom Landry Redskins commercial, 1986.

It was the American Express commercial, you know, with him in that saloon, with a bunch of Redskins surrounding him. So Stephen H. writes, always appreciate your perspective on the name and brand. Thought I'd share this 1986 American Express commercial featuring Tom Landry and the Redskins. I found it to be an interesting connection to a point you've made many times. times that the word Redskins should have a second dictionary definition as the team and players that play American football in Washington, D.C., since no one has said Redskins to refer to American Indians, Native Americans in decades. Yes, let me just interject, for those of you that don't know what he's talking about, for a decade plus, and I even, you know, gave this to the team

when I was out at Redskins Park all the time. I gave this idea to Bruce Allen, and he just blew it off as he did many things. I said to him, though, you should apply for a second non-pejorative definition, Webster's, Miriam, you know, all of them, all the dictionaries, and have the word Redskins mean second definition, noun the football team that plays football in Washington, or noun a player who plays for the football team that plays in Washington,

because that's really what the word has meant for, you know, 50 plus years, a half-century plus. Anyway, continuing with Stevens' email. The commercial from 40 years ago now sort of does both. You've often used the very situation the commercial uses as an example. If someone in a bar or restaurant said, oh, check it out. There are some Redskins over there. No one would think anything other than they were referring to football players and wondering which ones they spotted. The commercial is interesting because it carries both meanings.

Tom Landry's playing a real cowboy who's referring to getting into a tough situation where he's surrounded by Redskins, referring to American Indian people, but the actual Redskins he's surrounded by are football. players. Thought it was fascinating, a lot packed in to just a 30-second commercial. I guess it's not surprising that in 1986, it would have been much more common to at least remember people using the word Redskins to refer to American Indians, even though it was probably a very rare occurrence even by that time. In the decades since the commercial, it's become almost non-existent. Thank you for that. God, that is such a great. pull. Of course I remember the commercial. And yes, that's the example I've used many times.

You know, if someone at a bar said, hey, look over there. There's a redskin over there. No one would, in this day and age, in the 21st century, and very few late in the 20th century, would ever say, oh, there's an American Indian over there? No, you'd say, is it Jaden Daniels? Is it Terry McClure? is it Bobby Wagner? Is it Frankie Louvre? And that's essentially what Tom Landry was doing in that saloon, in that commercial. I love that. Thank you for that. This from Clay, Clay writing from Charleston, if it's Charleston, South Carolina, one of my favorite places, he writes, Kevin, I'm an avid listener, and one of the lingering sad Wizards fans, wanted to say thanks for your influence. You weren't paying attention, though. The Wizards were just plus three against the Nets on the second night of a double

header, second night of back-to-back, I'm sure he's mentioning. This was an easy smell test neighbor Nick Theory pick. Thanks for educating me to identify those. Yeah, the Wizards beat the Nets the other night. I guess as a three-point dog, I've not been looking at NBA lines at all, not even a little bit. What else? I pulled a bunch of them that I wanted to read. This one from, you know, Brian, back to the biggest DC sports story with Ovechkin. Kevin, to me, the biggest sports story, non-game related, is Dan Snyder killing the Redskins? It had to play out over a long period of time, but that seemed impossible at one time. Him taking $6 billion in running away seems much easier to accomplish That is true, Brian, no doubt.

What he accomplished in 24 years was hard to fathom back in 1999. Look, you know what? Selling the team for $6 billion wasn't easy either. I mean, it was basically one person and one group willing to pay that price. But I get your point. It's just that, you know, that wasn't, that's a, you know, quarter century story. not a kind of a moment, a sports story moment, which is I think what we were kind of looking for.

What else do I have here? I guess that's it for now. Lots of emails on my interview of Ted Leonsis, and I'll read through them. A lot of them dealt, well, here's one, because this was critical of me, Let me just find this. From David and Potomac, Kevin, I've been listening to you for years.

One of the reasons being your interviewing ability, and then he gets to his point. I was very disappointed in the Tedliances interview. You missed on asking him the most important question, which was, are you interested in buying the nationals? Yeah, I did miss on that. I talked to Tommy about that yesterday. I totally whiffed on that. I had it on my list of things to get to. It was a rather long interview with Ted,

but I should have gotten to that much earlier. There were a couple of things that I wished I'd gotten to were followed up on, but you are correct. I whiffed on that big time, no doubt. All right, let's talk some football. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, if you've lost your hands, hair or you're losing your hair, it doesn't mean you can't find it again. Try hymns hair loss solutions.

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Just dial pound 250 and say the keyword, Kevin Show. That's pound 250 keyword Kevin Show. See representative for warranty details. This is pretty a thrill. Set it up to Samuel. Looking for a couple blocks. Get you. Debo Samuel. Turns on the speed. Breaks a couple tackles and the crowd comes to life. Now does he that across the 45. One ESPN analyst believes that the place that makes the most sense for Debo Samuel, Washington. We'll talk about that in a moment. This segment of this. show is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie.com and use my promo code. Kevin D.C. MyBooky will give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. MyBooky has everything you need for March

Madness. They'll have plenty of bracket contests. They'll have all of the games. MyBooky right now has a bunch of NFL futures opportunities up and available. How about MVP odds for 2025, 2025, 26? Lamar Jackson's the favorite at plus 470, followed by Josh Allen at plus 520, Joe Burrow at plus 630, Patrick Mahomes at plus 690, and then Jaden Daniels at plus 870. And the player that comes after him is almost double the odds.

Jalen Hertz is plus 1650. So the top five favorites, at least odds-wise, to win MVP next year, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, and Jaden Daniels. MyBooky.ag, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. So Ben Solac, who is an analyst at ESPN, an NFL writer, wrote a story today about potential offseason trades and what they would be worth and which teams made the most sense, etc. And the first one he writes about is Debo Samuel. First of all, there is something that we haven't emphasized when it comes to Debo. My initial reaction, by the way, was, nah, I don't think I want Debo Samuel.

He is injured a bunch, and even if he's not injured and misses games, he plays injured a lot, plays hurt a lot. I give him a lot of credit for that. Debo Samuel is one tough, competitive SOB, and he does play hurt, and he's on injury reports all the time. The reason he might be available, or maybe is available, is because he asks the 49ers for a trade. But here's something that perhaps needs to be emphasized when it comes to the 49ers trading Debo Samuel. They restructured his contract before the season started last year. If they were to trade him, they would have a $31 million dead cap hit. That's a big hit to take.

They restructured his deal, and so trading him or even releasing him or even release him, him pre-June 1, which means before the draft so you could recoup something for this upcoming draft is going to cost him $31 million on their cap. That means for them to trade him, they're going to have to get a lot back. I'm not willing to give a lot for Debo Samuel. But that's not what Ben Solac writes. Ben Solac considers a post-June 1 trade of Debo Samuel. and that would allow the 49ers to take that $31 million cap hit and spread it over two years,

making it more palatable. So he writes, which teams should be interested in Debo Samuel? Any team that heavily targets their receivers at or near the line of scrimmage has a good role for Samuel, who presents a running back-like challenge to opposing tacklers in space with his size, burst, and balance. the commanders and chiefs would both find a great role for him in their run-pass option games, as might the Bills or Colts. I also imagine all the branches of the Shanahan tree, Houston, Miami, Seattle, etc., will be interested. Now, I'll get to what he writes about Washington being the best fit

and what he even writes with respect to the compensation. but he basically said that releasing him post June 1 is actually the better cap move. Trading him post June 1 is a better cap move than trading him pre-June 1. He writes, in short, I don't really know how much he'd cost in a deal. I'm going to guess a couple of day 3 picks or a late day 2 selection if the 49ers are lucky. This is where I would actually just push back and say, they're not going to take a big cap hit without getting meaningful compensation back. So he writes, the perfect trade outcome for Samuel.

Washington commanders are the best outcome for Debo Samuel and the 49ers. I'll get to the compensation in a moment, but he writes, the best outcome for the 49ers is that a team becomes suddenly desperate for a receiver during training camp. This also keeps Samuel on his existing deal, which is richer than the one he would sign in free agency. I really like the chiefs as a landing spot, but the money probably won't work there. The commanders make the most sense of the cap-rich teams as Samuel could fill a useful role in their screen and RPO games, working his way into the backfield in Cliff Kingsbury's more creative offensive sets.

The commanders also see a good deal of zone coverage because of the danger Jaden Daniels presents as a runner. That plays into Samuel's strengths. I expect a trade is more likely to happen post-June 1, so we'll be trading 2026 draft capital. So here's the suggested trade. Washington gets Debo Samuel, the 49. get back from Washington, a 2026 fourth round pick, a 2027 conditional fifth round pick that could

become a fourth rounder if Samuel's on the team during the 2026 season. So, first of all, understand this. When you're talking about future picks, not in an upcoming draft, GM's front offices, they discount those picks. By about about. a round because you don't get immediate return on those picks. And by the way, there's a lot of mystery around what those picks will be, where they will be. So future picks have always been discounted. Whether it's justified or not, that's the way front offices think. So Washington, to give up a 2026 fourth rounder and a 2027 fifth round pick that's conditional, because they're future picks, they would be viewed more as giving up a fifth rounder in this draft and a conditional

sixth rounder in this draft. Now, I agree with Ben Solac that Debo Samuel would be a good fit for Washington. The big issue with Samuel is, can he remain healthy? Can he stay on the field? He will stay on the field. Debo misses a couple of games here and there. He missed two games this year, two games last year, three games the year before that. All right, four games, I'm sorry, the year before that. He's on the injury report a lot, but he shows up. He is a warrior in terms of football player description of warrior. He's also incredibly versatile.

He is one tough dude to tackle in the open field. And I do think the fit would make a lot of sense. I think Terry McCorn on the field, Debo Samuel, by the way, he will go block as well for the run game. You use him in so many different ways. I mean, he's in the backfield. He's fly sweep. He's jet sweep. He's definitely screened.

He's also an over-the-middle guy. If you tell me that I only have to give up draft capital starting in 2026, and it's a fourth-rounder in 2026, which I would view as a fifth rounder, A 2027, so not this upcoming draft, not next year's draft, two years from this coming April, a fifth rounder that's conditional to maybe a fourth, I'm on board with that. I love Debo Samuel. I've always loved Debo Samuel as a player. I think he's a badass on the football field. I think there's something about the 49ers drafting strategy, which, oh, by the way, Adam Peters has been a part of.

You know, Adam Peters knows this player better than anybody else. So there will be a lot of, you know, trusting in Adam Peters. Benefit of the doubt when it comes to their off-season moves. But if that's the compensation, God, it seems awfully light for him. Debo Samuel right now, age-wise, is 29. He will turn 30 after the season. so we're going to get him in his age 29, seventh season in the NFL. He has been, you know, this hybrid kind of player, running back, wide receiver,

slot outside in the back field. You can do so many things with him. And I love the fact that you've got Jaden with him and Cliff Kingsbury designing and calling plays. Yeah, I'm in for that kind of compensation. That's nothing. nothing. You're not giving up anything until 2026 and it's a day three pick. Yes, sign me up. Now, there is one slight issue, small issue. You might consider it to be significant or a large issue. I consider it to be, you know, not a significant issue. And that is Debo Samuel's contract,

which right now, the way it got restructured before the season started last year, allows for him to avoid 2026 and become an unrestricted free agent. So what does that mean? You can do the math. That means you may only have him for the upcoming season, unless you extend him and he agrees to a contract extension. But, you know, that's where Ben Solax proposed trade compensation of a fourth rounder in 2026 and then a fifth rounder in 2027 that would become a first rounder.

fourth rounder if he's on the roster in 2026. So if you were only on your roster for one season, you're giving up a 2026 fourth rounder and a 2027 fifth rounder, which, because it's down the road, it is a future pick, you really value that as a fifth and a sixth. I'm still doing the deal. If I believe that player gives me a chance, a better chance, to win the Super Bowl in in 2025, I'm still doing that deal. See, that's the thing. You've got to view it in the terms of we're in this window. We're trying to win the Super Bowl in 2025. So if he really advances that cause a future, you know, fourth rounder and fifth rounder, which really equates to a future fifth rounder or at present fifth rounder and sixth rounder, I'm doing it. All right, let's

get to the other NFL news of the day. The big news is that Matt Stafford staying in L.A. You know, after his agent and the player were given the opportunity to go out and find out what his value would be, the Raiders and Giants apparently created contract parameters, which then had the Rams going back to Stafford and saying, okay, we're going to keep you. We want to rework your deal. And I would bet that Matt Stafford actually wanted to stay in L.A. I mean, seriously, the Giants or the Raiders versus the Rams. I actually think the Giants roster is pretty decent. You know, the Raiders do have one talented tight end, that's for sure.

But Matt Stafford, had he been traded, I would have suggested they know something that everybody else doesn't, the Rams, and that he's about to fall off the cliff at age 37. But he's staying in L.A. where he had a hell of a year and they turned it around after a horrendous start that was caused primarily because of injuries. And they were the team in the postseason that had a chance, you know, a legitimate chance against Philadelphia. I feel like our team had a chance late third quarter, but ultimately, you know, 55 to 23.

So Matt Stafford is staying in L.A. Now, what does that mean for a team in our division, the Giants who inquired and actually had parameters for a contract for Matt Stafford, the New York Giants. What are they going to do at quarterback? Did you know that currently the only player under contract at the quarterback position in New York is Tommy DeVito? The Giants don't have a quarterback. Now, they could draft the quarterback, potentially, and start him as a rookie, but they are looking for a veteran quarterback. So, Adam Schaefter reported this afternoon that the Giants

are interested in Aaron Rogers. Rogers is set to become a free agent after the Jets announced earlier this month that they're moving on from him. Sam Darnold also, Schaefter says, is one of the options that Giants are considering. That's it. They don't have any quarterbacks.

So, yeah, Darnold or Rogers, Look, I've said this all season long about Aaron Rogers. If you just take the personality, and by the way, the disruption associated with the personality and put it to the side, from a football standpoint, he was far from the problem in New York for the Jets this year. There were many issues that led to them having a bad season that were ahead of his quarterback play. I actually thought at times he played very well, and certainly he played well towards the end of the season. In New York, they'd have a roster that's not terrible. They've got Malik neighbors at wide receiver. They've got, you know, Tyrone Tracy in the backfield with Devin Singletary.

They've got an offensive line that they've, you know, gotten after a little bit in recent years. And they've got talent on that defense, man, from Dexter Lawrence to Brian Burns to McFadden and O'Kareke and Kavon, Tibado, and, you know, Banks, who was at the Maryland game the other night, They've got some talent on the roster. I mean, you look at their roster. They're missing a quarterback more than anything else. What does the quarterback make them if they have a great quarterback? A really good team, if it's a great quarterback.

You know, a team capable of doing what Washington did if it was an elite quarterback, but none of those are available that we know of. With just much better quarterback play, they're going to be 500-ish. You know, you can't finish 500 without a tie, but they'll be a team with much better quarterback play than they've had in recent years, a team that certainly could win eight, nine games. I think they could. They're in a tough division at the top with Philadelphia and Washington.

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but at least you'll lock yourself in to the deal that they're offering right now. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. That was not Johnny Knocky and Walt's call. That was the Big Ten Network's call. I can't find the Johnny Knocky Walt call anywhere. And by the way, I work at a radio station that carries the games,

but for some reason we didn't have the radio. call of the shot. Naki's with us right now. So tell me how you guys reacted. How did Johnny call it? What was your reaction? What was Walt's reaction to the Holloman shot? Well, if you can't find the call, does that mean it never happened? Yes. Yes, we can say that it never happened. No, you know, I mean, he released it literally right in front of us. It was, you know, I've seen it described as a half-court bomb. He was 12 or 13 feet behind half-court. Yeah. That's a 60-plus

foot shot. And released with a lot of momentum and a lot of confidence. You know, it was just such a dagger and so deflating. Considering, you know, I mentioned this to Gary Williams yesterday, Kevin, you were there and maybe you thought this, too.

In terms of post-COVID crowds, that might have been as good as we've had in that building. It was absolutely electric. From everybody's perspective, we watch the game on TV, they've told me the same thing that it just jumped off the screen, you know, the environment. Definitely. And it's one of the, it's like when we won at Duke. And the place becomes deathly silent when it happens, you know, all that air going out

of the balloon. That was just brutal. And it made a hell of a play after, you know, He was looking to be the goat at one point there. You know, he had a terrible turnover inside a minute to play. And, you know, he certainly made up for it. And then, so it was pretty remarkable shot. And in terms of our reaction, you know, Johnny called it on the spot, you know, and it was clear that it was before the buzzer. They didn't, you know, they came over and looked at it,

but it was a cursory look. They just looked at it for 10 seconds and said it's good game over. Brutal. Yeah, you said that you had the angle. I was actually just, you know, a little bit behind you. And I talked about this yesterday. I had the perfect angle, too. It was online the entire way.

So you're just hoping that it's long or short. You're right about the crowd, certainly post-COVID. That's for sure. You know, there have been a couple of nights. The game against Illinois, that first Big Ten game for Willard two years ago when we were ranked 13th and they were ranked whatever. That was a good crowd, but it was crazy. And yet the game turned out to be a game that, you know, the contrarian in me should have been screaming on game day.

Everybody's expecting 84, 82, it'll probably be 60 to 58. But the game was not played the way I think most people thought it would be played. So why wasn't it? Well, I think you had two big physical teams. Also, you know, I hate to say this, but I think that crowd like that is a double-edged sword for Maryland. I said this once during an earlier game this season when they had a delicious crowd. I just, they were just, you know, on edge and hyped and overhyped all night long. and one of the areas where it clearly manifests itself is in your shooting.

I also think that when you have to put the kind of energy into coming back against a really good basketball team, you know, you're exhausted by the end of that. I've got Maryland looked tired in the second half. But, okay, but to your question, Kevin, I am haunted every game Maryland plays by people who call me and say, what do you think? you know, in terms of point spreads and over-unders and stuff like that. And I always say, you know, casinos don't go out of business. And, I mean, I got my own thoughts, but, you know, for the most part,

I agree with you. That would definitely take a contrarian look at the game to have played the under order, even envision a game like that, where they're, what, 113 points scored. I don't even know what that, what the number was in that. 152. 1502. Yeah, 30 or 40.

points higher than that. That's crazy. Yeah, just two big physical teams playing a really important game. I was really impressed by Michigan State's depth. I mean, it's like hockey, both in the physicality and also in the numbers. I mean, they're just sending guys over the boards. You know, they're all kind of interchangeable. Guys are not one of them as great. They've got some pretty good players.

It's not your traditional talent-laden Michigan State team. You know, it was just a tough game. I was a Izzo called her to rock fight afterwards, and it definitely was. Yeah, he said something, too, and I actually kind of saw it yesterday, even after we talked about it on radio and on the podcast. Tommy was with me yesterday. I actually felt like Michigan State deserved it, and Izzo said as much. He said, look, the shot was a lucky shot, but he felt like their defense,

they earned the right to win that game. I felt the same way. I thought their defense was insanely good, and I thought that Maryland's defense was really good, too. But I think I asked you the last time you were on, I said, what kind of team do you see giving Maryland a difficult time because nobody could stop them for the last month and a half? I mean, you know, even that Iowa game where they decided not to defend in the first half,

it was because they just figured, well, we'll just outscore them. Like, no one's been able to guard them. And I thought that Michigan State did an incredible job, especially against Gillespie and the pick and roll stuff. What did you think? Great job on Gillespie. They did a phenomenal job on the big. And, you know, I thought that neither one of those guys,

Julian Reese or Derekeen played a particularly good game. I don't think Maryland played a very good game in that, you know, I mean, they didn't play nearly up to the level that they have. But, again, a lot of that is Michigan State doing Michigan State things. The way they cover ball screens is just outstanding. You know, they've got their big men are very active. It's just really great, you know, the way they help guards through on ball screens. And you're right, they did a really nice job on Gillespie.

I think in a situation like that, if you had it to do over again, and I wonder, you know, I always wonder, and I ask, Kevin Willard this all the time. What did you see on the tape that you wish you had thought about or seen or noticed that night? You know, because there's always that point of shit, you know, I should have made an adjustment here. I should, you know, I should have, and it's not, that's not exclusive to Kevin. Right. Sure.

That's every, every coach who ever watch game tape, you know, looks at it and like slaps his head at some point. Like, what was I thinking? But, you know, maybe use Gillespie more off the ball. You know, I think Rodney Rice is an underrated playmaker. You could also bring Jay Young in for a few minutes, let him play on the ball a little bit. But let him let Gillespie rather than come around ball screens, let him use screens where he's fading to the corner or he's curling,

you know, that sort of a thing around, and he doesn't have the ball in his hands. And I don't know if that showed itself on the tape or not, but he has been such a weapon for them this year. You've got to get him activated. you know, and into these games, for sure. Yeah, two for 10, 0 for 6. I actually, and this was my next question for you, what did you say after the fact, because it all happened without a time out in between, you know, his miss and Holloman's, you know, bomb? What did you think about

the way Maryland's last offensive possession went? So, yeah, I know there's been a lot of talk about this. And I, you know, there's a shot picture I saw behind him at the release point. It's like 4.3 seconds left when he takes a shot eerily. He was in a shot. It was in a position very close to the dagger that Mellow Trimble hit eight or nine years ago against Michigan State. I have absolutely no problem with what he did. And here's why. We've ridden this kid all year. He's been their best player. You know, I mean, their most consistent guy. he's been a remarkable find. He's made a lot of big shots.

He had not had a really clean look the entire half. And I think he was eager to find that clean look. He got one. And I, Kevin, you know, I know that people hit me on Facebook, people I don't even know, who are like, you've got to drive in and get a foul in that situation. Well,

there's no guarantee an official is going to give you a foul with two seconds left, right? But in most cases, they're not going to blow the whistle in a situation like that. He played that game. He likes to play. Stop and pop. He's been very good at it all year long. The kid hit a 65-foot shot to beach.

Yeah. And so, like, sometimes, I'm going on 50 years of college basketball next year. And so I've been on both sides of this, and sometimes you walk out of the arena, and you think, man, basketball guys just suck. You know, it just feels like it's in the cards or it's not. And I like, I agree with you about what Izzo said. You know, I thought they were the better team for longer, but that doesn't always guarantee you a win. No. You know, it's just it's a fickle kind of a thing.

And I have, so back to your question. I'm sorry. It's all right. This is a Ted Lee. Well, you, you went. Stop. You answer, you answer the question. You said that you didn't have any problem with it.

By the way, I totally agree with you. Do I think that there was an opportunity to drive the ball and he had been given, by the way, I think a couple of generous calls to get those last four free throws? But it was the cleanest look he had all night, and we have seen him make that shot all season long. And the guy came back and made a 62-footer to, beat you.

Yeah, I just could not, I couldn't be overly critical of what he did in that spot. But you did answer it. See, I mean, it's fine. It's fine. Now, did you know, did you know that that buzzer beater for Michigan State was the first buzzer beating shot to win a game since the Corey Lucius shot 15 years ago? Now you're just dagron me with all these stuff.

And, you know, it's funny, and that same conversation I had with Gary, you know, I said, you know, the gods can be so arbitrary. You know, Draymond Green ducked the past that Cory Lucius caught. Actually, he threw the past. I went and looked at it the other day. He threw the past. It was Summers who ducked. Draymond threw the past. Summers ducked.

With, by the way, his own calling time out that they didn't. didn't give them. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So it's just, it's unbelievable how things unfold and unravel. And like I said, the gods are fickle. And, you know, you sort of have to find it in you to bounce back. It's not easy, you know, but you do get a chance to play pretty quickly, and that's tomorrow against Penn State. Get to that in a moment. So, you know, in bringing up these Michigan State memories, you talked about the mellow shot that, that, uh, that, uh, beat him at X-Finity.

I talked about this yesterday. I think I admitted to you. You basically have insisted that one of these days you're going to be okay being in the Big Ten. You know, because I was very resistant to change, but more than that, a part of me was taken away with the move. I mean, it's just the way it was for a lot of us.

You know, it's the same thing with the name change, with the Redskins. You know, part of your DNA is, I mean, part of your emotional fandom, it's an attachment to certain things around what you love. And one of those things was being in the ACC and having those rivals, not just Duke in Carolina, but everybody. But I wanted that so badly Wednesday night, because now they've beaten us seven times in a row,

and they don't view us as a riot. I understand that. Nobody in the Big Ten views Maryland as a rival, even though Maryland's been good in the Big Ten in basketball. But I want something, you know, here over the last, you know, 25, 30, you know, years, hopefully of living. I want, you know, I want a rival. And that's the team. They're the standard in the league, Michigan State. And we've had so many memorable games against them over the years. you've called all of them, including, by the way, a tournament game in the defending national championship season in 2003 when Blake almost beat him with a three at the buzzer. San Antonio.

And that was a heartbreaker. Just a great comeback by Maryland in that game. And Blake made so many big shots in his career, and he had a good look from the top of the key in that game. But to your point about the rivalry games, you know, Michigan, Michigan State is a match. rivalry game, right? I mean, that's going to be their big game. But when you are the standard in the league, you know, I mean, you're everybody's big game. And Michigan State never walks in and gets somebody's half-assed effort. You know, they're going to come, and whenever they go

into their way, Jim, you know, teams are desperate to beat them. And so, you know, I mean, that's sort of the beauty and the curse of being Tom is going to Michigan State and have, and being the standard. You're, you know, you're everybody's, you know, you're everybody's, you know, rivalry game. We aspire to have them be an arch rival. It's just, we might be years and years away from that if it ever happens in the Big Ten. Yeah, because it's not going to be a Penn State or a Rutgers. What could happen is that a North Carolina, as an example, moves to the Big Ten at some point. Virginia. Or Virginia, yeah. Yeah, we talk, and that's, you know, there's always that. There's always that.

There's always a possibility of that, for sure. Although we're moving so far away from that now that even that wouldn't be as, you know, as important. But anyway, all right. Yeah. Tommy asked me this yesterday. Don't you feel good, though, that you went toe to toe with a team that might, you know, win the national championship or be in the final four? And I said, no. I don't feel that way.

I feel like that I wanted them to win. win the game and I don't want to take a moral victory out of it. But I also said to him, I still feel the same way about my team. I still think Maryland is a very good basketball team. So I'll ask you, A, do you feel any differently after they got handled a little bit with a really good defensive team? And then B, what do you think their best case is moving forward? Well, I feel really good about the team. I don't, I mean, that's a lot. At the end of the day, that's an L.

There's no, there's no L with an asterisk. It's a loss. There's no, I don't feel anything positive about that. I knew this team was good and could compete with anybody. So the fact that they were there in the end doesn't surprise me. One of the things I do take a little bit of comfort in is, you know, Michigan State's an anomaly. They're the exception and not the rule in NCAA basketball.

They've got 10 guys playing double-figure minutes. Merrill is not going to see that depth the rest of the year. Unless they play Michigan State in the Big Ten tournament, which could happen. So, you know, I think that Merrill's death was definitely exposed. You've got to figure that out. You know, whether it's getting Gipari in the mix, and I'm not sure why he wouldn't have played the other night, probably had something to do with practice or something that we don't know anything about. But the bench has to give you more than they're giving you.

And quite honestly, Maryland just didn't give Michigan State their best shot. You know, at the end of the day, it just didn't feel like they played well at all. But it takes two to the time. You've got to give Michigan State credit for how they're game playing in that game. You know, you said something, and I just want to go back to it, about the crowd and that they were a little bit tight. You could see that very early in the game. you know, there's an argument right there for the conversation that's been happening about Maryland's fan base and the students showing up and even the season ticket holders showing up.

And you know, I mean, this is not the same as it was 15 years ago. I mean, you know, in Gary's time, I mean, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Clemson games sold out. Now, they may not have had the same fervor as a Duke or North Carolina game, but it's been. indifferent since we've been in the Big Ten, and we've seen. The attendance has dipped. Well, there's an argument, right, for, you know, you don't want your team to come out in the biggest game of the year and then have a crowd that they're not used to that makes them nervous. I don't think it made them nervous. I'm nervous is probably, I mean, they were just over-juiced, over-hyped.

Same effect. Yeah. Yeah, same effect. Right, right. They're not on their game. I guess that's the bottom line. You know, there's so many theories about the whole crowd thing. And we've seen it in the Big Ten, Kevin. We've seen empty seats in arenas we've never seen empty seats before. You know, so it's not one.

I don't think it's a problem with an issue that's particular to College Park in the Maryland. You know, my daughter who's involved in down at VCU, and, you know, they've got a really rabid fan base. a perfectly sized building, you're 76, 7,800. She said something to me the other day that I didn't even thought of, and she said, you know, today's college student

is yesterday's COVID shut in. And she said, they're not quite socialized the way the way people, the kids were 10 years ago, you know, and I, I hadn't really thought about that. And again, there's so many different opinions

about that, but I found that one to be, kind of interesting. But as you said, people showed up the other day. I mean, for whatever reason, maybe it's just Tom is on, Michigan State. Obviously, it's a one-of-a-kind coach and program. Yeah, it was, you know, it was a hilarious crowd. I think I get it. I think Kelsey's right.

I think there's a lot to be said for that. I mean, there is definitely a different social atmosphere with that. that age group. And my boys are beyond that. And your daughter is beyond that. But I hear that a lot from parents who have kids that are in college right now. Oh, really? You do. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. But, all right. Penn State tomorrow, for whatever reason, we've gone there a lot and been favored and gotten beat. They are not a very good team this year, but they've played better recently, I mean, you've got to win this game. You can't lose at Penn State tomorrow, right? We are, we are, I didn't realize this because I was looking over the Penn State notes a few

minutes ago before we got on the phone here. I think we're two and 13 up there. Is that right? Seriously? Two and 13 at Penn State? And we've gone up there with some teams. I know. Good squads. It's a dreary, dreary place. Yeah, we really need to win this game. I mean, I want to keep that double-by and play. And if you lose this game, I mean, obviously, maybe an even tougher game in Ann Arbor, middle of next week.

So, yeah, you've got to get back on the beam here. It's an opportunity. Penn State's played well. They just haven't finished out games. So I'm against Indiana the other night, and they put themselves in position with six or seven minutes to play. They were right there, but just couldn't finish out the game. We're one in seven on the road since entering the Big Ten at Penn State.

One in seven. And I guarantee you we were the favored team in maybe all of those games. Virtually all of them. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's crazy. And think about this. The previous coach, you know, and he's now at Notre Dame, right? Yeah. He wouldn't be at Notre Dame if Dante Scott grabbed the rebound.

he couldn't get at the end of that game last year. Right. So, I mean, because then they don't, they don't advance, they don't get the postseason play at all, you know, I mean, as a result of that, I mean, that was a singular play that affected guys' lives, you know?

It's not crazy. What did Shrewsbury, what did they go last year? Yeah. They were, they were 23 and 14, they made the round of 32. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two years ago, actually, two years ago, because this is his second. here at Notre Dame. Yeah, okay. Okay, right, right. All right. Thanks for doing this. By the way,

really appreciate you joining me on radio today, too. I did my best Ted Lee Wilson in front. I booked Naki for radio, and it's completely my fault. I do have a substitute producer, and he had decided to put something else in the rundown for the time that I booked Naki, and I completely forgot. Completely forgot. But then when I called... Yeah, go ahead. You're geeseing. I know.

It's an old geeseer moment for you. But I tried to pull one on you because I called you after the show and I said, hey, thanks for coming on, man. That was excellent. And I thought maybe for a moment you might say, well, maybe I did go on with him. Who knows? No, no, no. All right, good job. I'm still lucid enough to remember these things for now.

All right, I'll talk to you soon. I am sure. Let's get away at Penn State tomorrow. Very good. Hope so. See you now.