The Kevin Sheehan Show - Defense Got More; Offense Needs More

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

Kevin and Thom today opened with some follow up to Fox Sports' NFL "Offense Supporting Cast" rankings. Plenty on last night's Oklahoma City win over San Antonio to even the Western Conference Finals at a game apiece. The boys talked Commanders' Dave Gardi leaving for Tennessee, the Nats' getting back to .500, and plenty more.    For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Get 20% off your first order at www.FastGrowingTrees.com with code [Sheehan].   So if you are looking to make Mother’s Day perfect, or just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal next time you host, go to www.GOLDBELLY.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code sheehan.   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift.     Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. He is Kevin. Tommy is here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor is always,

Window Nation, 86690 Nation or Window Nation. com if you need new windows. Tommy, this from Z in Herndon, Z writes, I'm a big fan of the podcast and really wanted to make it to Shelly's on Monday night, but work and kids got in the way. I was at Lansdown in 2013 when Kevin was the auctioneer at a charity golf outing. I think Tom was there too, and he did a great job. I wanted to know if Kevin also auctioneered on Monday night.

I read this. I'm going to tell you right now, Z, I'm pretty sure I did not auctioneer something. I think you've got me confused with somebody else. First of all, Chris did a phenomenal job as he always does, auctioneering at Tommy's charity event on Monday night. Chris Spira, a general manager of the D.C. Grays and one of our biggest workers on the board. Yeah, he's phenomenal, did a great job. I know that I've like participated in auctioning off an item like one item you know I've done that at my kids schools you know over the years for their auctions like especially if it was an item that I actually donated I think I told you this that for for many many years I would give away, which.

Well, we always gave away auction items to visit us in studio at the radio station, and we've done it for the podcast. But for my kids' schools, there were, you know, typically, you know, two to three auctions a year. And every year, for many years, I asked Scott, as in Van Pelt, to donate a tour of ESPN. Now, you have to get yourself to ESPN. and this is when he was in Connecticut, and then Scott would give you a tour of ESPN. And, you know, if I asked Scott for every single thing that people ask me to ask him for, I mean, it would be absurd.

I never ask him for anything because, and I tell people all the time when they say, hey, man, can you mind asking Scott? yes, I actually mind. I can't do that. Because if I were to do that for you, I'd need to do it for literally five people a month that reach out to me to say, hey, do you think Scott would? No, probably not. It's the quick answer. You know, rarely will somebody say, you know, there's something that I know that he would actually be interested or be available to do. But I think all of his friends, you know, get in it. indicted with requests for him. I used to get inundated for requests for Tony or even for Rigo, even for you sometimes. But if I get requests for you, I usually tell you. But one of the things that I actually would ask him and not even ask him, but tell him he had to do, is I, we need a big item.

We need a big live auction item and a tour of ESPN with Scott Van Pelt. is a big time auction item. You know, I mean, I don't know why it is, but people seem to really like him and seem to think that it would be a great idea. So for years, he did it. And I mean, he was a trooper, man. I mean, once or twice a year,

somebody was coming up to Bristol, Connecticut, because they got the auction item at one of Sheehan's kids' schools, and he was great. And they would, you know, they'd send me a note or they'd call me, and say, oh my God, he was incredible. I mean, you know, and I knew going into it each year, he didn't want to do it.

I don't want to do it. I mean, kicking and screaming every year. I don't want to do this. It's a pain in the ass. You know, I'm busy, and I'm like, look, I don't ask you for anything. And if I did ask you for stuff that people ask, all of our conversations would start with here's my list for today of people that were that have asked me to ask you to do things um and so it got to a point where he really and i think i think my oldest had graduated already from

high school and he was in college and my middle son was probably close to it but my youngest son was still in in like you know maybe a freshman i said look ryan's got three more years of high school and then that's it. That's it. He's like, he's like, no, I don't want to effing do this anymore. The last person you sent up here was such an asshole. Like I remember, I remember specifically, of course, I'm not going to name names, but there was somebody that actually, and the funny thing about that particular couple is when they actually got the item, I called them up and I said, hey, great news and some bad news too

and he said what and I said well the good news is your auction item last night went for like you know $5,000 or so it was insane whatever it was the bad news is you're going to literally want to hit both of these people over

the head with a two by four within my God within 15 minutes of their arrival and he just he screamed at me and he MFed me up one side and down the other. And he goes, this is effing bullshit. I don't want to do this.

I've been doing this for you for several years. And I just said, Michael, well, okay, I finally said, I think it was with that one. I finally said that, all right, well, I committed to one more and that's it. And actually, Ryan's last couple of years in high school, they would ask me for the item. I said, I can't do it anymore. Can't do it anymore. We did it for a long period of time and can't do it. And everybody, by the way, would come back and say,

and Scott's one of these people. He'll tell me how he doesn't want to do something. He doesn't want to go somewhere. But when the moment comes, he totally rises to the occasion. And the people leave thinking, oh, my God, he's the greatest ever, which he is. But that was, those were, and I'm going to tell you, As far as this golf event, Z, I guarantee you I did not give a live auction item. I saved that for like my kids' schools.

It's possible that I auctioned off an item. But, you know, I don't know about you, but I actually was on the board one year. And I hated doing that. And they were talking about like, I think somebody asked me to auction ear, to play auctioneer. And I said, look, these are big events for the school, important events for the school. You need a professional. auctioneer. There's a real talent to that.

And the difference between somebody who really knows how to do it and some dads that's going to walk up there for yucks can be significant in terms of the amount of dollars raised. And I remember sitting in one of those meetings about the auction and I said, no, you don't want somebody like me. You don't want a father. You need a professional. Like, there's a big difference when they ended up doing the professional, and it was like, you know, the guy had done it, you know, I think he had done it at the school previously. Give you a chance to squeeze more money out of it with a professional.

Yeah, I'm telling you, when you have somebody that's good at that, it's worth the cost, totally worth it. If you're really trying to raise a lot of money for, you know, a school or whatever, yes. Now that said, Chris is very good. Chris is excellent. He's excellent. He does a great job. He does a great job.

Yeah. But anyway, no, I didn't do Monday night, and no, I'm pretty sure I would have remembered actually playing auctioneer. It was probably an item that they asked me to do. And maybe they asked the two of us to do it together. Great night, Monday night, again. It was so much fun. This from Denny. Denny writes,

28th question mark. Now, let me just tell you what Denny is referring to. Denny is referring to a Fox Sports story yesterday, written by Ralph Vacchiano. Do you know him, by the way? Don't you know him? I don't know him. I'm familiar with his name.

Okay. For whatever reason, I always, whenever I see his name on something, I always think that you... All the Italians know each other. Well, yeah. I mean, all of the Italians know each other. But I do remember maybe somebody else saying that they knew him and said he was a great guy. I think he's a New York guy.

Anyway. Yeah, he is. Yeah. So he actually surveyed a bunch of NFL scouts to come up with a one through 32 NFL ranking of offensive supporting cast. So, you know, the supporting cast for all of these quarterbacks for 32 teams, and Washington came in 28th on that list, not very good. You know, essentially saying best weapon is Terry McLorn, who's going to be 31 in September, and he's coming off an injury plague season.

Of course, I think we all know that there's the possibility they could add to the supporting cast between now and the season beginning, but at this point they don't. And they also, in the write-up about Washington finishing 28th, because offensive coordinator was part of this in terms of supporting cast, they write that don't underestimate the loss of offensive coordinator Cliff Kingsbury. He got a lot of credit for helping Daniels post arguably the best rookie season ever for a quarterback. He's now replaced by former quarterback's coach David Blow, who's been an assistant for two seasons and has never called plays before. So anyway, back to the email from Denny. Denny writes 28th. The commander's supporting cash should be last. They have nothing on offense other than aging, overrated Terry McClearn, who fans think is Jerry Rice.

And even the O line isn't as good as you think it is, Sheehan. If the defense gets better and the offense isn't what it was in 20, 24, then you better be harder on Adam Peters than you've been because it would be his fault. So the reason I read that is that, first of all, I don't think 28th is unfair. I actually looked at the whole list and I'm like, yeah, that's about right. Secondly, I have said that the O line is good, but when you say the O line isn't as good as you think, I don't know where you would rank it. I would bet you that preseason, and I haven't found one yet,

but Washington's going to be easily in the top half of the league in offensive lines. I would agree. I mean, they have, you know, Laramie Tunsell obviously is a major part of why they, it would be hard for me to see him in the back half of the league. And Sam Cosmi is well regarded. And then they had a rookie right tackle last year who played. played pretty well at the end of last year. But the last part of this email is the part that I actually, Denny, think you are 100% right on.

And you're right. Like, it's not like, I mean, I haven't been that hard on Adam Peters because I haven't felt like it would be justifiable to be hard on Adam Peters. I think Adam Peters has done a pretty good job here in his first few years. I mean, Marshawn Latimore is really the biggest mistake. and then in free agency, if you want to say they whiffed on Pierce and Dobbs and Linderbaum, I mean, we've gone through that list. But to Denny's point, if they are improved on defense, like markedly improved on defense, and their offense isn't as good as it was in 2024, by the way,

this all assumes health right, on offense, like everybody's going to play this year. And it isn't as good as it was in 2024? Yeah. You point the finger at Adam Peters. I mean, now there's context around that, but I would assume right now that if the offense isn't as good as it was in 2024, it would be because the overall supporting cast wasn't good enough. Because I believe that the quarterback will be good enough if he's healthy.

So I wonder if they're willing to live with what they have going into the season right now. I'd love to know what... I don't see how. I don't see how. I just can't fathom them being willing to live with this. You know, I mean, you've had made some pretty lofty predictions about how you think this season is going to unfold. and as the more and more of the preseason predictions come out, they can't all be chalked up to ignorant national media.

You've got to be feeling like you're not many people on that island with you besides the usual dummies. The usual dummies. I'm part of the usual dummies. I pick them to 12 games every year, no matter who's on the team. Well, I mean, I'll remind you that two years ago, when I was on that island with the usual dummies

and picked them to go 10 and 7 with a rookie quarterback, pretty much the same thing was said. And they ended up going 12 and 5. I'll also let you know that last year, New England's over under number for the season was 7.5. And Seattle's over under number. for this regular season was seven and a half, which is Washington's seven and a half current number right now at mybooky.com and my bookie.ag use my promo code, DC reload for a 50% cash

bonus. That's DC, R E, L-O-A-D. I don't, you know me. I don't give a shit about what other people think. I mean, it's the NFL. Nobody knows anything. think that this team is being undervalued more so because they look at last year's record and don't consider why they went five and 12th. And I see a team offensively that with that quarterback, his name's Jaden Daniels, you may have heard of him. He was the rookie of the year in 2024. And by the way, finished like sixth or seventh in the MVP voting.

And all I can think of is if he is healthy for 17 games like he was in 2020, in 2024, your team's going to be a lot better than it was last year. So that's the root for my optimism. He's been healthy his entire career. Last year was the aberration, fingers crossed. and if this year he's back to playing football and not sitting and watching football, the team's going to be a lot better. You know, somebody wrote that he's the sun in which all planets revolve around. I agreed with that person who said that.

Look, I tend to agree with you. I don't think you're taking into consideration the uncertainty of the coaching step. I think there's a lot more questions about the coaching staff, including, you know, the superstar David Blow, who has to get the coach one game as an offensive coordinator. But it's already been knighted one of the, you know, one of the geniuses in the league. I would have a little bit more trepidation.

And then the coaching staff under those guys. You know, I mean, it's, it's, kind of like a whole new coaching staff. And they're not the only one that probably is like that. I'm sure there's other teams in the league like that. But that's the biggest uncertainty to me.

I mean, I don't think he's been knighted at all. I think that that is you. They didn't want to leave, they didn't want them to leave the building. Why? Well, they certainly have a lot of confidence

in him. But I don't think that, you know, the rest of the league is night at him. I think the rest of the league knows that he is a rising, you know, kind of talent. He was certainly going to be an offensive coordinator in 2026 somewhere, most likely Detroit, if it wasn't here. Do you know, the athletic put out a story yesterday. I wasn't actually going to use it on the show, but it's sort of dovetails nicely with what we're talking about. It's a story about how 13 teams have new offensive coordinators this year. I think I mentioned to you last week that there's like a record number of new offensive and defensive coordinators for one season.

Just a lot of new offensive coordinators and defensive coordinators, guys who haven't done it before. But in the write-up about it, they said, you know, they were discussing the fits between new quarter. coordinator and quarterback. And for Jaden Daniels, it actually went into a Jaden Daniels Lamar Jackson category because they're both going to Ben Johnson-esque systems. The Ravens hired Declan Doyle from Chicago. He was working with Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams last year to be the offensive coordinator under new head coach Jesse Minter.

And we know that David Blow was elevated in Washington. and what was written about it is that the commanders hope Daniels can follow in Jackson's footsteps, Lamar Jackson's footsteps, because Jackson actually has already proven at various times, Todd Munkin and other offenses, that he can play from under center. Daniels hasn't shown that he can protect himself as a runner going back to his time at LSU. commanders coach Dan Quinn promoted David Blow who played for Johnson and and by the way also coached with Kevin O'Connell and Johnson, promoted Blow to offensive coordinator believing he can put together a Johnson-influenced under-center package. Daniels doesn't have much experience playing under center, so it's going to be an adjustment but a necessary one to prolong his career. Um, let me ask you a question.

Yeah. Uh, just a little bookkeeping here before we move on. Okay. That's an interesting article. Can you forward it to me? Yes. Yeah. Sure. Okay, because I'd like to educate myself. Bookkeeping. I'm always trying to stay, uh, up with the latest development.

Yes. I'm sending it to you right now. Um, thank you, sir. What, what is it that, that struck you about it? No, because I suggested that the commanders are not the only team in the league with a new coaching staff. Yeah. You know. 13 teams with new OCs, 13. Yes.

Yes. You know, on the idea that this is an offense that is necessary to prolong his career, I don't really. really see it that way. I mean, I'm not suggesting that my answer is correct here, but my gut reaction to that line is, if that's the reason they're going to this offense, play action pass attempts are just inherently more successful than non-play action pass attempts. For me, that's the number one reason you go to a Ben Johnson, Kevin O'Connell, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, you know, set up, you know, which does typically happen more under center and less out of shotgun. Now, there are some of these systems where you're in the pistol a bunch because the pistol

has the running back behind you. And so you do like under center, you do turn and essentially hide the football, you know, from the defense when you turn. to hand it off or you turn to fake the handoff. But I think Jaden fits in any offense, and I think in terms of prolonging his career, you prolong his career by putting better players around him, number one, including up front, and number two, and this is my biggest thing

when it comes to what can he improve upon, Jaden needs to play differently in the first quarter on second down and 10 than he does in the fourth quarter on fourth and goal from the three. Those are very different game circumstances. I don't need him taking off and taking on three different linebackers on a second and 10 in the first quarter of a seven to seven game. but in the fourth quarter on fourth and goal from the three down by six, he's going to have to put himself at risk because you've got to go win the football game. And I think that for him is probably something that they need to focus on because you're never going to want to take away, you know, as Dan Quinn would say,

his superpower, one of his superpowers, which is threatening a defense with his legs. You want that as a part of your offense. You certainly want it as a scrambler, you know. You certainly want it, you know, in situations where zone read makes sense, you know, as a true dual threat quarterback. But you don't need him taking on, you know, big, defensive linemen and linebackers and hard-hitting safeties at 3-3, you know, early in the first quarter. that's the part where he's got to mature a little bit.

But in terms of an offense to prolong his career, I don't know. I mean, quarterbacks get hurt in a lot of different ways, a lot of different ways. What? Have the commanders yet put better players around him? On offense? I mean, you know, there is, I think the offensive line in the last two off seasons. Offensive line is the offensive line. The same one they had last year.

Have they didn't he... It's actually different because they changed... Have they put better players around him? No, not from... Well, better players than they had last year because none of them played. But no, they need to add another really good player to their offense. That's why Stefan Diggs and Brandon Ayu can have been a big part of the conversation. among not just fans, but people who are following the team.

And we don't know if they've improved the running back room. No, we don't. We certainly don't. I mean, there's a possibility that Chris Rodriguez, you know, where did he go? Jacksonville could end up, you know, being a really good back in this league. And Austin Echler was a major part of their best offensive games in 2020. and was their best running back, you know, last year, but obviously got hurt early in the season and didn't play much.

Yeah, I mean, this will be, look, in terms of improving the offense, you can improve the offense by improving your defense. That's, you know, Adam Peters said that in his season-ending presser, and I could not agree more with that. You know, nothing hurt the offensive production more than a bad defense that can't get off the field and gives up too many points and, you know, is always on its heels and doesn't give the offense good field position or good opportunities, you know, that could be the best thing for the offense is a much improved defense. That's improving the overall team as well. In terms of like the support specific to the offense, yeah, they didn't, you know, they tried with Pierce, but he was never going to leave. They certainly were interested in Dobbs.

And they added a concoe, Rashad White, Van Jefferson, Diami Brown, and Jeremy Ford. And then they drafted a receiver in the third round that they really liked that, you know, a lot of people like, but he's a draft pick. and I you know to me that's a roll of the dice we won't find out for sure for a few years right whether or not they got that one right I really hope I really hope that if they are pinning their hopes on Brandon Ayuk that they get it right that he is physically and mentally ready to play football and be a part of a team because he is a true talent or was one he was was one. So what's your next column after I just sent you that on the coordinators? Oh, actually, I've got a column running for tomorrow's paper that has to do with Victor Wimbayana. Hmm. Okay. What do you think of that?

I can't wait. You might want to read that one. I can't wait to read that one. I'm sure some of you are wondering how I did not lead with last night's game. We're going to get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsor. All right, guys, listen up. I'm going to tell you about the only gift that dad wants to get this Father's Day. Get him Gold Belly. Gold Belly ships the most iconic foods from the best restaurants across the country straight to his door for free. I've been telling you guys about Gold Belly for a few years now. I absolutely love it. I mean, you can let Dad kick back on Father's Day and chow down on award-winning barbecue from Texas. epic deep dish pizza from Chicago or colossal pastrami sandwiches from New York, no matter where he lives in the country.

My favorite, Johns on Bleaker Street pizza. When it arrives, it is frozen, but I'm telling you, when it comes out of the oven, it tastes just like it would if you were sitting down in a booth at Johns. So if you're looking to make dad feel like an absolute legend this Father's Day or just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal. Next time you host, go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Sheehan. That's goldbelly.com code Sheen for free shipping and 20% off your first order. I'll be honest. At first, I was skeptical about ordering plants online, like, is this thing actually going to show up alive?

But that's what surprised me most about fast-growing trees. They don't just ship plants. They've built a whole system to protect them until they arrive at your door. Every plant is hand-picked and carefully inspected, and the packaging is designed specifically to keep it secure in transit so it doesn't get damaged. And when mine arrived, it honestly looked amazing. The soil was still damp. The leaves looked healthy. It definitely didn't feel like it just came out of a box.

Plus, every order is backed by their alive and thrive guarantee. So if anything does happen during delivery, they'll make it right. Fast-growing trees is America's largest online nursery with thousands of trees and plants for every space and climate, and they make it easy to get plants that actually work for your yard, and they're delivered right to your door. Right now, they've got great deals on spring planting essentials, and my listeners, get an additional 20% off your first order with code Sheehan at checkout. That's 20% off at fast-growing trees. com with code Sheehan.

Terms and conditions may apply. This segment of the show is brought you by Window Nation. If you need new windows, just give Window Nation a chance to come out and give you a free estimate. It'll be totally convenient for you. It'll be an hour or less. They'll walk around your home. They'll tell you which windows actually need to be replaced. And then they'll leave you with a quote and then they'll leave you alone.

I promise you, no pressure, no obligation, a simple in-home free estimate an hour or less at your convenience. This is if you're actually interested in replacing older windows with newer windows, or maybe you just want your home to look nicer. If you decide to move forward with Window Nation, right now, every four windows you purchase, the next four are free. So you're essentially paying half price. And if you choose to finance the purchase, no money down, no monthly payments and no interest for two full years. You won't find a better offer. You won't work with a better company.

And their variety and selection is over 1,500 strong when it comes to window styles. 86690 Nation, window nation.com. We'll get to last night's Oklahoma City win over San Antonio in a moment. but this from H, H writes, the only thing I've ever seen is bad as Kenny Atkinson was Ron Rivera and the franchise's next head coach Eric Bienemy at the end of 2023.

Worst coached Skins team of all time. That made me laugh. Remember how many people thought Eric Bienemy was hired to be the eventual head coach? And yet nobody else in the league wanted him. He's back, by the way, with Andy Reed. Back with Andy Reed. Yeah.

His comfort zone. Well, it's a good spot for him. You know, those players know him. And, yeah, I think that's a good spot. And apparently I think he did a pretty good job with the running backs last year in Chicago. Yeah, what H is referring to, tell me real quickly, because I didn't even ask you. Have you watched the NBA games from the last two nights? Yeah.

Okay. So you saw the Nick come back? You saw the game last night? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, the Kenny Atkinson, Cleveland Cavaliers meltdown was truly one of the worst things I've ever watched. And I hate doing that because it's like, I'm sure there's something I'm missing. I'm sure there's something that, you know, he could say that would change my mind. But I don't think there's anything he could say about Tuesday night's 22-point blown lead where he did not call it. timeout for four straight minutes as the Knicks went on an 18 to one run. All the while Jalen Brunson was torching James Harden over and over. Here's what he could have said. Here's what he could have said. They threatened my family. I had no choice. Yes. Yeah. I had people he could have said. I had people in my home threatening to hurt my family if we didn't blow the lead and not only blow the lead,

but make sure that we didn't cover. Do you know that they were, so two things about the game. I think I did mention that the number was seven and a half. I mean, you were already counting your money if you had Cleveland plus seven and a half, which is a dangerous thing to do. But beyond that, the total for the game was 218 and a half. 115 to 104 was the final. It went to 219.

So if you had the under, which a very good friend of mine, who I've already referenced on this show, did have the under, that's what we call in the trade a bad beat. And by the way, that sounds like a segment to me. Yeah, I mean, the worst thing for underbedders or underdog bettors is overtime. I mean, that's the worst thing. and if you had Cleveland and the under, that overtime killed you. Yes, that would be a good explanation.

If he said, look, you know, you people just killed me, but you have to understand. I got a note right before the fourth quarter began that said my family was being held hostage, and if we didn't lose the game, bad things were going to happen. I mean, because the other explanation is, I'm a terrible coach. Yeah, but he's not apparently. I actually, during the radio show yesterday, I actually called Scott and said, what does everybody think about Kenny Atkinson? He said he's very well regarded.

People think he's a really solid coach, because I didn't really have an opinion one way or the other. So it was just a bad night. And I don't know. Maybe he's a good assistant coach. I don't know. That was... You know, because that was a head coach moment. Yeah.

That was a head coach moment for sure. If that happens in the NBA in January on a Tuesday night, nobody knows about it. But it didn't happen that way. And I talked Tommy yesterday. Just how I think it's so... It's one of my favorite things in sports. is the, you know, the legendary iconic stadiums and arenas when they just go into full-fledged pandemonium.

And you don't, you know, not everybody's ever experienced that. I bet some of you listening have never really experienced, you know, a charged atmosphere like the one the other night. And I've talked a lot about this over the years. I got to experience it at RFK. 100% you know one of the all-time charged you know raucous crazy insane asylum stadiums uh and really for maryland basketball both cold field house and and uh ex finity center you've been in both of those places on insane nights and there is just something about being in that environment or watching it that

I love. And the other night was, and it happens usually when the home team is down and makes a big comeback. You know, that's when a place can get to a fevered, you know, sort of decibel pitch that just is really cool to see. And I, that that arena for this time of year when the Knicks are good is really fun to watch on TV. Really fun to watch. You know what, though? I'm tired of the front row stars. Okay. Aren't you? Well, I don't know.

I mean, I don't mind it. I am. Look, when I grew up watching the Knicks, like the Willits Reed, Walt Fraser, next when the garden was like that. Right. Okay, just absolutely insane. I mean, when they would feature people in the crowd,

they would feature, like, a fan, like Dancing Harry. Remember Dancing Harry? Yeah. Yeah, I think I do. Okay, well, he was at Knicks games then. You know, that's who they would show. Right. They wouldn't show like this.

Well, Lakers games. I mean, it was Jack. It was Diane Cannon. It was the Lakers games had all the scars. I know, I know, though it became a Laker thing. Yeah. I know, but that's an L.A. thing. Madison Square Garden is not an L.A. thing.

It's become that. I mean, those are the two places. And what makes me sick is when the players go over and hug the stars after the game. Why? Because it's bullshit. What do you mean? Why? They're friends.

They're friends with some of these people. And defies everything that defies everything you just talked about. You know what it is? How does it defy everything I just talked about? It's elitist. Oh, my God. You know, what I think that, I actually think there's a difference between the New York thing and the L.A. thing.

The L.A. thing really is laid back, you know, even with its stars. And the New York people that are there, I mean, Spike's obviously been there forever. Chalamay's a new edition. McEnroe's always been there. Who else am I missing? I'm going to tell you right now, it's not something that I sit there and say, who's there tonight? I'm into the game. I'm not into, like, my wife walked in the other night when I was watching that game,

and she said, so who's there, you know? And I'm like, what do you mean? Who's sitting on the floor, the stars? Ben Stiller's there. Ben Stiller's there. Matthew Modeen's there, you know. All these goofballs. Whatever.

It was a great environment. That L.A.'s fine. The sun shines most of the time and the feelings laid back. All the trees grow and rents are low, but you know, I keep thinking about making my way back. Wait, I don't know the lyrics. But I'm New York City born and raised. But nowadays I'm lost between two shores.

L.A.'s fine, but it ain't home. New York's home, but it ain't mine. No more. Neil Diamond, I am, I said. I thought you were going to give me Jay-Z or Beyonce or somebody like that. No, I was going to give you a real songwriter. Neil Diamond. Isn't there some Neil Diamond movie?

Somebody told me that there's a movie that was really good. I think I haven't seen the movie, but I think it's a movie about some guy who does a Neil Diamond takeoff as a performer. I don't think it's a Neil Diamond movie. Were you a Neil Diamond fan? Like not huge, but I enjoyed him. Okay. And I must have about eight or nine songs. on my playlist,

Neil Diamond's songs. Is he still alive? Who likes him? Who likes him as Quentin Tarantino. There's usually Neil Diamond songs on his soundtrack. So many good songs on Tarantino's soundtracks. All right.

Last night's game, there were a lot of people that responded to me when I tweeted out during the game. This is really interesting. I tweeted out at the end of the the first quarter. This is as high level as basketball can get with the intensity of Hagler Hearns. And several people responded. I actually had a couple of friends text me and just say,

I just read your tweet. You've got to make sure to read that to Tommy. I'm sure his reaction will be priceless. But here's the thing. I felt that watching the game. I felt that watching the game. in the first quarter. And in the third or fourth quarter, Tariko, on the broadcast, said, I feel like we've been watching Hagler-Herns. He actually used the exact same reference.

I swear to God, I didn't rip that from anybody. I was just... Let's face it, you know, Mike probably follows you. You probably saw it on your Twitter. No, he didn't. He didn't. Tommy, that game in the first quarter last night was just one haymaker after another. The level of play on both ends was very, very high level, very high level. And the desperation from OKC after losing game one and the response, from San Antonio.

That was, I've already talked about watching these two teams in San Antonio, Minnesota, especially early on in Minnesota, Denver, but last night's first quarter, and the rest of the game was sensational too. But the first quarter to come out and just throw the haymakers that each one of these two teams threw at each other, that's why I thought this feels like Haglinson. Hearns, like it just didn't stop, the back and forth, the shot making, the defensive plays. I mean, let me just tell you, one of my new favorite players in the league is Stefan Castle. This guy is an absolute badass. He's a champion two times at Yukon, and I know how good

Stefan Castle is. He was the fourth pick in the 2024 draft. He's an excellent player. But he had a dunk during that first quarter. It may have been early in the second quarter. He's 6'6 and already, I think, maybe the toughest, baddest dude on the floor when he plays. Yeah, that was quite the dunk. I'm rooting for Oklahoma City, which seems weird because of the Wembe, you know, situation. and I do love watching this guy play. But I picked Oklahoma City before the playoffs began.

I picked him before this series began. I think they are such a great defensive team. You saw it all last year during the postseason. And that was a big time response, by the way, by the MVP, SGA, Shea Gilgis Alexander. He had an incredible game. And there were injuries. I mean, guys were falling all over the floor. I mean, there were knockdowns and near knockouts, but they may have lost Dylan Harper,

which would be massive for them because he's played so good. The Spurs have. Just, that was, what did you think? You said you watched it. What did you think of the game last night? I thought it was quite. I wasn't as, I didn't think Hagler-Herns, but I thought it was a great game. I thought you were watching two very talented teams.

I thought maybe we were watching the NBA championship probably. Yes. For all intents and purposes. You know, and you've talked about this for years. I didn't use to pay attention. Oklahoma City is damn good on defense. So is San Antonio. I'm good.

So is San Antonio. Yeah. I know. I just... So I thoroughly enjoyed the game. and I love watching Wembe, yeah, I mean, they guarded him last night with Hartenstein. So that was, you know, one of those, you know, in-series adjustments.

And they went, you know, they've got two bigs in Holmgren and Hartnstein. But Hartnstein probably is 100 pounds heavier than Holmgren. Not really, but I bet you he's 50 pounds heavier than Holmgren. And Hartnstein, I mean, what, you know, Legerstein, said it the other night on the broadcast with Breen and Jefferson, he said, you know, I don't, he said essentially they have let

teams play in this postseason. They have let teams really get away with what you know, in past post seasons have been fouls. I said that about the Denver Yeah. But there hasn't been any flopping. Not among these teams. SGA flops a bit.

SGA definitely flops a bit. And, you know, some people really hate it. I think, look, it's part of his thing. I mean, he doesn't do what Hardin does. And I mean, some people think SGA's the best flopper in the league. Whatever. He gets to the free throw line a lot, and I will concede he gets a lot of calls. That's what happens in that league when you become a superstar. You get more calls than the guy that hasn't been the MVP two times in a row. But it's when it's not all. flopping because of the contact. I mean, the San Antonio Minnesota series was football in the first three games, and they let

them get away with it. And in this series in the first two games, they have let you mall each other, especially off the ball. And you saw Hartnstein last night. I mean, he really tried to beat the crap out of Wimbunyama. I mean, he's grabbing, holding, leaning, pushing. He's got, you know, he's got his, you know, elbow in his gut. And Wemagnama is not, you know, afraid.

He's fighting back, too. There was so much kind of borderline wrestling, you know, when it was off the ball stuff. And, yeah, Wembe Gama had a solid game last night. He was solid. There's no doubt. But it was a different night for him because Hartenstein did a really nice job. And they didn't switch a lot of guys. onto him like they did, and they didn't have smaller guys guarding him like they did in game one.

But Jalen Williams got hurt again, too. So you've got Jalen Williams, you've got, you know, both Harper got hurt last night, and D'Aron Fox was already missing in action for the first two games. So you may get a series that can turn based on some of these missing bodies. Jalen Williams is a big miss if he ends up being out again for a whole. Oklahoma City and Harper and Fox. Fox has already been missed. And if you're missing Harper and Fox both,

you're missing your starting backcourt. God, Castle's something to watch, though, man. He turns the ball over a lot because he plays so hard and so fast at times. And he's not a point guard. He's been playing some point guard with Aaron Fox out. Really, I mean, the NBA needed this after. some blowouts over the weekend and some of the series that were, yeah, you've had, you know, now three straight nights of just exceptional basketball or exceptional, you know, drama like

with the Knicks, because that was not a great game. You know, um, Kenny Atkinson going back to him, he, he defended Hardin again on the off day yesterday. And, you know, I was watching Wilbon this morning kind of say, what's he supposed to say publicly? He's got to have the guys back. You're not going to bench him. And he suggested that there was like an agreement. Like the reason Hardens there is because they thought he was the missing piece.

And you can't bench Harden after you traded for him. Guess what? I mean, this isn't about feelings. This isn't about, you know, promises me. made, you're in the Eastern Conference finals, and he can't guard anybody. He can't guard Brunson. You can't have him in the game if he's going to be targeted that way. By the way, Cleveland should be targeting Brunson on the other end.

Oh, here's one other thing, basketball-wise. I just saw this on social media. Jalen Brunz, I think you're going to find this comical. if the Knicks were to win a title, is Jalen Brunson in the conversation of the greatest Nick of all time? I legitimately saw that being debated by a lot of people that cover the NBA. Children that cover the NBA. Yeah.

Okay, children that cover the NBA. Yeah. It's a short list. Okay. before he even gets close. Willis Reed, Walt Fraser, Patrick Ewing.

Those were the three I was, if you had asked me, do you have a guess? Because you, Tommy has the answer. He's a, he's a Knicks, you know,

he grew up as a Knicks fan. Those are the three I would have immediately given to you, immediately given to you. Yes. Who would be on the outskirts of that? DeBusher. uh yeah the busher uh would definitely be on the outskirts he's a hall famer yeah girl monroe

yeah you know he was different player than he was in baltimore but still very valuable right you know i mean it's it's so hard to explain but i think i was spoiled forever in basketball by those next teams i really do you love those teams look i've enjoyed basketball over the I loved the Celtics Lakers teams. I love watching the Spurs. And, God, it was like watching the symphony. It's so hard to, it's really hard to put into words. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know a lot about those. The first Knicks teams that I remember, Tommy, and we've talked about this before, but it's the teams that played the bullets right when they moved to Washington in the playoffs and they beat the bullets in seven games. And I remember they beat them in the garden in the seventh and deciding game. They came as the Capitol bullets in 74. That was their first season in Washington because they had been in Baltimore.

For those who don't know, the bullets were the Baltimore bullets. and in 74, they played the Knicks who had in the back court, Frazier and Monroe. That was their back court because Monroe was a Nick for that series. And that's the first year that I remember the bullets, because it was their first year in D.C. It was 74. They lost that series.

The next year, the bullets went to the NBA finals and lost to the Warriors. in four games and I was hooked. It was like not easy. It wasn't hard when the first two years you're in town, you lose to these championship, you know, legendary Knicks in a seventh and deciding game. And then the next year, you're in the NBA finals. It's pretty, you know, they went to the NBA finals three times in their first six seasons in D.C. and won a title.

Hasn't been anywhere near that since, has it? No. No. So those next teams. Yeah. Willis Reed is right there with Tom Seaver. Those are Tommy's top two. Yep. Yep.

All right. Our football team lost its clock management coach. More on that after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I introduced you recently to Thry Market, I told you it's a product that I use that I think you should use too. Now I want to tell you why membership makes a lot of sense. Thrive Market's a membership-based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are. You simply just hop on their app. The membership breaks down to just $5 a month and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters,

auto ship and save, free gifts and peace of mind knowing there's no junk in any. the products that they carry. Instead of paying fees on every grocery delivery order, you pay just once for the year and benefit from it every time you shop. Thrive Market makes it easier for you and the kids. You know kids want mac and cheese, sugary snacks, juice boxes. They're going to eat what they're going to eat. Thrive Market gives you versions with less sugar, fewer sketchy ingredients,

and more nutrition. You're paying a small monthly fee to offload the stress research and decision fatigue of eating healthy, and you can try it risk-free. The membership bundles everything into one simple monthly cost. You don't pay delivery fees, service charges, or tips on every order, and the membership pays for itself anyway with their discounts and sales. Ready to do your own spring reset? Join ThriveMarket with my link, ThriveMarket.com slash Sheen,

for $20 off your first three orders, Plus, you'll get a free $60 gift. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelly's back room. We're still basking in the glow of our Monday night cigars and curveballs fundraiser for the D.C. grades at Shelly's hosts. And, you know, for some people, that was the first time they got a chance to look at Shelly's, you know, to take in the atmosphere.

And, you know, I'm sure some of them are going to come. away Shelly's converts because it's hard not to. But what was interesting is I remember having conversations with some people about, you know, the eumadors, the eumadors that line the walls on both sides of the two bars. And they have names up there, the nameplate of the people who rent them. Okay. Now, you know, they could use their regular names or they can come up with some kind of a name. Like, one is, I remember, it was war evil.

You know, that's so, so they, I mean, so, but that is a level of status at Shelly's. You see, I'm just a Shelly's regular, okay? So I am not, I don't have that kind of status at Shelly's. That's Shelly's royalty when you own one of those humadors, when you rent one of those human doors, where you can go to Shelly's, walk over, you know, ask one of the waitresses to open up your your humidor locker and get your cigars that you keep there at Shelly's back room. That is royalty. Okay, I'm not like that.

I'm just a ring. I don't know. You can be. There are a lot of people there that are royalty. Well, they're just setting them straight. You can, you know, they have over 200 humidors available for. lease. Okay. And you can find out more by going to shelley's backroom.com and you can download the lease contract right off the website. And to find out more, you can call 202-737-3-003.

Shelly's Backroom at 1331 F-3 Northwest. So Tommy, Washington lost its clock management coach. Dave Gardy is the guy that's been handling a lot of. out of the in-game strategic clock and score and challenge decisions for Dan Quinn, since Quinn took the job in 2024. He actually hired Garty out of the league office. Garty had decided after 21 years in the NFL working in the NFL league office that he wanted to work for a team, that he wanted to be involved on game day. and Quinn saw something in him and hired him to be the VP of football initiatives.

He actually served as a liaison to the league office, provided support to Washington staff, both coaching staff and front office, and was involved in in-game decisions on game day. Let me just mention that I've asked people over the last two years, you know, what he does specifically. Like, is he just the replay challenge guy? Does he actually get into Quinn with, you know, the analytics on certain fourth-down decisions or two-point conversion decisions? And I've never gotten an actual straight answer as to what he does. I think a lot of teams actually don't like to kind of share with everybody that someone else other than the head coach is involved in some of that stuff. But you've got to have people upstairs involved, at the very least, in replay decisions.

Anyway, Dave Garty got hired by the Tennessee Titans to be their executive vice president of football operations. That's a huge promotion. So 21 years in the league office, two years in this organization, and he just got promoted to basically the number one football operations. decision-making role in the Tennessee Titans organization. So I don't know who will replace Dave Garty. It wouldn't surprise me if there's somebody in their research and development slash analytics department that could take over that role. If Quinn is looking for someone to do that,

I wouldn't surprise me if somebody's in that building right now that's done it before for previous coaching staff. So we'll see what happens. So there you go. Dave Garty, I'm not sure that's a name familiar to a lot of you out there. I know we've talked about him, you know, occasionally, but more so when he got hired, just the intrigue of what his role would be. Well, this is, I don't know if this is a blow or not.

He was an absolute disaster. Why? I don't know. I'm just making that up. Yeah, I was going to say. I don't think we mentioned his name since he was hired. Very little. I mean, I will tell you that, like, my initial thought when I saw this was,

if he were the guy that was kind of making in-game, you know, score, clock, challenge decisions, for the most part, he did a decent job. Like there were knits to pick over the last two years, but nothing that major. Honestly, I think the worst thing that Quinn's done, like in-game, was keep Jaden in the game running RPO's at the end of the Seattle game this past year. That was insanely stupid. Like if he's going to be in the game, he should be handing the ball off. That's it. The game is over.

put him at risk. And I know they thought the RPO wasn't a risky play, but it is on a condensed field. And they should have known that. But yeah, I don't have anything off the top of my head that says that he didn't do a decent job. And I honestly have no idea who will take his job, but I do know that there are people in the organization that have been a part of advising coaches on game day for those kinds of things. So we'll see. Okay. I wonder if they'll name a replacement.

I have no idea. They may not say. A lot of times that person that does that, we don't have a clue who's doing that. Right. All right. I know you wanted to talk some Nats to finish up the show. We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Another big offensive night last night for the Nats. Eight more runs for the highest scoring team in Major League Baseball and a record now that sits at 500 after an 8-4 win over the Mets, guaranteeing that they won't lose this series. They've won two of the three. There's another game today later on at Nats Park. This is getting interesting. do you think at this point?

Oh, yes. Is it fair to say that maybe the season everybody thought the Nats were going to have is going to be much different than that? Oh, I think that's fair to say. But, I mean, I think we always have to remember that teams can collapse. I've seen plenty of 120 game teams fold in September. 162 games usually tell us what you are. But right now, they are far better.

better than the team, certainly I thought they'd be, and a lot of people thought they'd be. I mean, C.J. Abrams is leading the National League in RBI. I know. He's hitting 300, too. It is 10th home run last night. It's got 42 RBIs. You know, and Jacob Young had a homer last night. That gives him six for the year. That's more than he had in his career. I mean, James Woods in the top 10 home run. Yeah.

Yes. They're getting a lot of power that they didn't necessarily expect. So, and they got some great pitching last night as well. You know, the pitching has been erratic, but last night it was pretty good. And I don't think anyone wants to play. Who is pitching today? I don't know. Oh, that's what I thought.

I thought it might be Cavali's turn. He's... It's a day game today. Yep. So I tell you what, I don't think, except for the Dodgers who have no reason to fear anybody, I don't think anybody wants to walk into Nationals Park and play the Nationals these days. Juan Soto hasn't had a problem doing it the last two days. He's got three homers in two games in the last two games at Nats Park.

Yeah, he had two last night. So Soto seems to be okay, but the Mets are a mess. Yeah. So I know we've talked about this before, and I think I asked Mark Zuckerman about this earlier this week or maybe late last week. I mean, if you get to, let's just say, mid-July and you're still, you know, hovering around 500 and you're like legitimately in a wild card race, do you trade CJ Abrams then? I mean, would you bail on an opportunity to play meaningful? baseball unexpectedly in 2026 for the future? They don't have to trade C.J. Abrams at the trading deadline.

I mean, I don't think he becomes a free age until 2028. So they could trade him in the offseason. So they're not, I mean, there are, here's the problem. They've got a couple of pitchers on one-year contracts like Forrest Griffin and others who, you know, if they're good, they would be trade bait. Right. So I think that it's the one-year guys, the pitching guys,

that I think would be trade-bay. Unless they got a tremendous offer for a guy like T.J. Abrams, he can be traded in the winter. The prospect. So I don't think they're going to be under the gun to get rid of their second best offensive player, if you think James Wood is their best. So no, that's not necessarily an absolute.

I hope not. That would be... The pitchers... Yeah. But the pitchers, you know... Yeah, sure. The pitchers are on one year... Of course.

I understand that. But, like, you're now literally just two months away, and that would be another 50 games, right? Something like that, roughly. Away from, you know, legitimately having a decision to make that maybe you didn't think you'd have at the beginning of the year. Because if you're sitting there at 51 and 50 or 49 and 50 or 50 and 50 and you're two games out, three games out of the third wild card spot in the National League, and you're still the highest scoring team in baseball, and people are actually, you know, taking you seriously, not just the teams you're playing, but your own market is taking you more seriously. I mean, I would hate to see a major sale of the key components of what they're doing this year. But I understand that's sometimes the nature of baseball. By the way, speaking of key components, a player that, you know, I think a lot of people hoped would be, hasn't been.

But Dylan Cruz has been up and he's two for eight in the last two games. It's nice to see him up. And he's got two hits and eight at bats in the last two wins over the Mets. So good for him. Yeah. Now, now it's possible. Let's say these are the Nats for the whole season.

Let's say they win maybe 80 games, okay? Mm-hmm. Which is, you know, right there knocking on the door of competing for a wild card. Okay. Mm-hmm. Would ownership be under the gun, not just not to trade C.J. Abrams? But to sign him. then offer him a long-term contract.

I mean... Because he's not a bore's client. He's signable. Yeah, he's not a great defensive shortstop, as we know, but wow, can he generate some offense for them? Right. And I don't think shortstop would be his future because of the top pick from last year,

E.J. Willits, who's doing great in the minor leagues, who eventually probably be their top shortstop. But you can't deny that power. left-handed swing. So, you know, if the discussion may change from, should we trade them to can we sign them, then we'll see what we deal with with the learners who have been the cheapest owners in all baseball. Now, they're not going to be happy about spending money on CJ Abrams next year because it's an arbitration. year, and he probably stands to make

nine or ten million dollars next year, if not more. Right. Just like on a single year contract. They won't be crazy about that. So we'll see what they do. I know you want to finish with something that's sad, but I wanted to mention two things before you get to that. Number one is that the lions,

gave Jack Campbell their off-ball linebacker a four-year contract extension. When Washington drafted Sunny Stiles, I know some of you were like, that's too high for that position. Look at what the Lions just did, and at the time what they did was they did not pick up his fifth year option. He was a first-round pick as well. And some of you pointed to, see, you only, you know, you can't keep these guys.

They're too expensive for the position. position, but the Lions signed him to a four-year contract extension today. So why did they do it? Because he's a really good player, and they got a really good player when they drafted him. What was it, 14, 15, whatever it was in the first round? That was number one. Number two is, I know that I've told you this, but I don't think I've shared this with all of you out there.

Next week, I will very likely have a show for you on Monday that I'm going to to record either today or tomorrow, but I'm actually leaving to go on a vacation tomorrow, Tommy, to Italy with family. And so next week, just to give you a heads up, there won't be shows for the significant majority of the week. And then I will be back a week from Monday to start going again. And, Tommy, that means Tommy and I, this will be our last show for, you know, about a week and a half. So, um, well, have a great time. Yeah.

Yeah. We went to Italy for two weeks and it's the best vacation we ever took. Love it. Yeah. We've been, we've been a few times and we absolutely love it. And, uh, we're actually going to an area that we, we've not been to Lake Como. That's going to be part of this trip. So we are going there. so looking forward to it. Yeah.

So, all right. The sad news is Howard Fendrich was an Associated Press sports writer. He covered, he was based in Washington. He wrote about the commanders, the wizards, the nationals, but he was a national

sports writer for AP when it came to tennis and also covered many Olympic for it. He passed away at the age of 55. So sad. He was diagnosed with cancer in February after returning from covering his 11th Olympics. I did no idea he was sick. I can tell you, Howard, I knew very well, spent a lot of time with him, had a lot of

great dinners with him at spring training in Florida, a fun guy to be around a smart, smart guy. It was always a joy to see Howard in the press box when he was covering an event. And, I mean, it's just a great loss for, well, I mean, for all of his colleagues who really have nothing but fond memories of Howard. He was a great tennis writer. In his obituary, Roger Federer is quoted in the obituary, saying he's talking about Howard. he's tennis lost a wonderful journalist and a great person over time he truly became part of the

fabric of tennis that's the greatest tennis player of all time talking about a sports writer that's high praise so he will be missed he had a great impact on a lot of people very sad uh for sure and our sympathies uh to his family. All right, I will talk to you in about a week and a half. Thanks. Okay, boss. I'll be back tomorrow with the show and probably one on Monday as well.