The Kevin Sheehan Show - Del Rio & RG3

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

Kevin and Thom today with a ton on Jack Del Rio's twitter fun on Tuesday night and a recap of John Keim's podcast interview with RG3. Plenty of other stuff including a story about Mark Moseley's field goal streak in 1982, the Colts move from Baltimore in 1984, and whether or not the NFL will start on time or even complete the 2020 season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. A Sports Fix Thursday, Tommy's here. I am here.

Legit, not making it up. Somebody, a friend of mine texted me and said, are you hooked on painkillers? Is that why you missed yesterday's show? No, I'm not hooked on pain killers. haven't had to take the painkillers now for two consecutive days. I'm feeling a little bit better on that end. Thanks for asking. No, we had we had legit problems in here. I had John Kime ready to go. And we had major technical issues not only with our phone system, but with our, with our connection

to the desktop. I had to get some IT people in here. So I had to have people come into the studio and I didn't require them to wear masks. And I just... Really? No, whatever. Jesus Christ. And they didn't do it? The first guy did, and then the second guy didn't, so I didn't really say anything.

And then they got me on the phone with somebody that was trying to fix things remotely. And then I decided to bail on the podcast, because it wasn't going to happen. At that point, it was 2 o'clock. and I left and just said, you got to call me or text me and let me know if everything's fixed, because if not, I'll have to go to Silver Spring to do the radio show this morning. And they texted me at about 8 o'clock last night, and they said, we got everything fixed, you should be good to go. And we are.

You and I, I did the radio show from the studio, and here you and I are doing the podcast and it's being recorded. Let me just check again. Yes, it is. You want to give me a quick sound check, Tommy? A quick sound check? I don't do anything quick, Kevin. Quickly? I'll do it as quickly as I can. You're good. I just looked at it. You're fine. You're fine. You know, somebody on Twitter probably came up with the truth.

They said, you were screwing around with that stand-up desk, weren't you? That's better than the painkillers thing. I was, I have been fooling around a little bit with the stand-up sit-down desk and the fact that I can move the desk up and stand up and move it down and sit down. I've had a little bit of fun with that over the last couple of days. I'm sitting right now, comfortable sitting, so that's a good sign. But no, that didn't have anything to do with it, although it could have had something to do with it now that I think about it, because the first time we raised the desk up, it was pulling some wires pretty hard. But I think everything was fine.

I don't know. What the hell do I know? Anyway, I wanted to start real quickly before we get to some issues like the Del Rio Twitter storm the other night, the RG3 interview with John Kime, and some other things. I've told you at least once about Howard Gutman, who was the... the ambassador to Belgium under Obama. And, you know, he's involved with this company that's developing one of the scanners for professional sports leagues that will not only take temperature, but will take, you know, blood pressure and respiratory, you know, measurements and blood oxygen levels, etc., which is a much more significant test to determine whether or not some. someone's sick, and this is the future, he believes.

You'll have to walk through one of these things. You walk through a metal detector anyway, and it will act as a metal detector as well. And if you don't pass, they'll refund your tickets and tell you to get the hell out. You won't be able to go into the stadium. Anyway, that's one of the reasons I ended up having a conversation with him, because he's been a listener of the shows over the years. but he's an attorney, Tommy, who had worked with Williams and Connolly and was involved in a lot of different interesting sports-related stories

during his professional life, two of which I'm going to share with you real quickly because I think you'll find them interesting. The first deals with Mark Mosley. Mark Mosley in 1982, if you recall, set the record for consecutive field goals in a season. You remember that? Yes. You do remember it? Are you just saying you remember?

Yes. No, I remember it. I remember 82. Absolutely. So he set the mark for consecutive field goals in 1982, breaking Garrow-upremian's record at the time, which was 20 field goals in a row. And during that strike-shortened season of 1982,

Mosley broke the record. He broke the record in a famous game that year. It was the snow game against the jose. Giants at RFK Stadium, which clinched the playoff berth for the Redskins in that nine-game strike short in season. Anyway, Mosley contended that he brought, Mosley had a clause in his contract that said if he set the mark for consecutive field goals, he would get a $5,000 bonus. Think about this, by the way, $5,000.

Like, it's just, it's so little. He would get a $5,000 bonus if he set the all. all-time field goal consecutive mark. So when he set the mark, he was due $5,000. But then he claimed that he set a second mark when he broke his own record by kicking his 22nd consecutive field goal, which should have equated to an additional $5,000 bonus. And then when he kicked his 23rd consecutive kick that year, which is where the streak ended, that he was, that he was, is do another $5,000. Well, Redskins' ownership lost their minds and said, no, no, no, no.

And basically, this guy, Howard Gutman, was a part of representing the team and saying, this isn't going to happen. And they were so angry that they basically spent five times what they would have spent in just paying them $15,000 in legal fees to win the case. against Mosley. You know, he has a point, doesn't he? Apparently not. Among the witnesses for Mosley were Bobby Beatherd

who was working for the organization. George Blanda, who was considered to be the expert authority on this. Blanda, even in 1982, was still a revered former player. And George Blanda came in as a witness on behalf. of Mosley. That's so great. Yeah, so that was one story he told. And then he told another story, and I think I'll get this one right. He was involved with the Colts in trying to move the Ursa, with Ursa, in trying to move

the Colts out of Baltimore. Ursay had decided earlier the year before in late 83 that he was moving. And he went to his lawyers, which Howard was one of the lawyers, and said, am I able to do this? and I'm going to net it out for you. Basically, they made the case that it isn't just paying your leases off, which he was willing to do, that there was a much greater argument that Baltimore could make, the state of Maryland could make, that the lost value to the city and to the state with the team leaving was more than just the lease payments that he owed on. facilities, stadium, etc. And they actually gave him the advice that they didn't think that he could just leave and pay

the leases. So then they said, and Howard, Howard said, I don't know if I'm totally proud of this moment, but he said, I came up with essentially the way for Ursa to do it, which was to pack up on Christmas Eve when no one was paying attention, and no one would be able to come in until two days later to do anything about it and move across state lines. And once you were across state lines, there was little that they could do about it at that point in stopping you from leaving. Now, they didn't move on Christmas Eve, as you recall. They ended up moving in March, but they did so in a very secretive way. The Mayflower trucks that pulled up to move

the Colts out of their facilities in Baltimore weren't even told. where they were moving to. They were just told to show up, pack up, and then they would get directions on where to go. Because no one could know where they were moving. And so on that fateful late snowy night in Baltimore in late March of 1984, they got out of Dodge, cross state lines,

and they were clear. The reason they didn't move on Christmas Eve, which was the original recommendation, was because Ursae hadn't cut a deal yet with Indianapolis. It was still between Indianapolis and Phoenix for the two cities that Baltimore was going to move to. So that's why they couldn't move. I said to Howard, I go, well, you could have moved

and you could have gotten across state lines and then just figured it out from there. And he said, well, what we were going to do, drive around the Midwest and those Mayflower trucks until they had a deal? And I said, well, it seemed to me that that would have been the perfect time to move out. But they ended up getting out on March 28th anyway. But they basically got out of Dodge and avoided what would have been an injunction to force them to stay.

You know, based on it being, you know, much more injurious, if you will, to the state and to the city with the team leaving than just the loss of a lease payment, which the Colts were willing to pay off anyway. just thought those were two interesting stories that he told from his earlier, you know, lawyer days at Williams and Connolly? Well, let me give you two reactions to those. Okay. First of all, the name Gutman, all of a sudden it just popped into my head. That's the name of Sidney Green Street's character in the Maltese Falcons. Okay. Mr. Gutman. Yeah. You know, a movie I've watched, I don't know, probably 2,000 times or something like that.

Did you go watch The Master again just quickly before I forget? No, I did not. I did not. Because I'm kind of caught up in Yellowstone right now. Got it. So I didn't watch it. But the other thing is, and this is a little bit problematic here for your Mr. Gutman. Well, not now.

I mean, who cares now? you know, but I don't think the city of Baltimore and Baltimore fans and Oriole fans knew that Barbara Ursa's lawyer was Williamson Conley. Edward Bennett Williams owned the Baltimore Orioles. Yeah. Okay? Right. And you mean to tell me that while Edward Bennett Williams owns the Orioles and is catering to Baltimore fans in baseball, his law firm, is helping the football owner move out of town? I guess so.

That would have been a bit problematic if it came out in 1983. Yeah. I didn't even think about that, Tommy, but that's so true. A little bit. When did Williams buy the Orioles? I think it was 77 or 79. It might have been 79, the year that they went to, or it might have been 70. He bought them from Hofberger.

By the way, the learners were bidders for that team back then before Williams wound up buying them. Would they have actually considered moving them to D.C.? I don't know. I don't know. You know, everyone thought Edward Bennett Williams was going to do it. Right. I remember that. Right.

But ultimately, he did not. And he was the driving force behind getting Camden Yards built, along with Larry Lekino, who worked for him. Yeah. At Williams and Conley. You know, it's actually, like, I do, I kind of remember when Edward Bennett Williams, who was obviously the owner of the Redskins and then bought the Orioles, and then Jack Kent Cook took over the majority ownership of the Redskins. I do remember vaguely the conversation about the Orioles moving to D.C.,

but you know what, Tommy, they shouldn't have moved to D.C. They were much better off staying in Baltimore because they captured the D.C. market anyway. And if they had moved out of Baltimore, they would have never – well, I don't know. The Orioles were such a treasure of that city. That would have really been ugly between the two cities. When you think about it, can you imagine if the Orioles had moved to D.C.? I mean, how hated Edward Bennett Williams would have been? Yeah.

I mean, remember, Edward Bennett-William brought the world for. series trophy down to Duke Zeber. Right. And sat it there for a few days. The 83. Yeah. Yeah. So, but ultimately, EBW did there, you know, if you could ask me, I wasn't covering

sports then. I didn't start covering sports in Washington until 92. If I could go back in time and talk to one guy connected with Washington, it would be Edward Bennett, William. Man, yeah.

I mean, I just wish I had a, I've gotten to know people who have been close to him, who have known him, who worked with him. And I just wish I had had the pleasure of knowing Edward Bennett-William. What a remarkable life. A remarkable life, tough, tough guy. Jimmy Hoffa's lawyer. Yeah, and some of the stories about, you know, his purchase of the Redskins and then, you know, bringing in Cook, like, some of those stories we could spend, you know, two hours doing a show on and having people on to talk about it.

Remember a few years ago I had that book in my possession that had a lot of information that... You mean Hail Victory? The oral history of the Washington Redskins? I didn't have Hail Victory. That book? No, I didn't. But that's a pretty good book from what I've heard.

Yeah. You know, there's lots of stuff in there about George Preston Marshall. It turns out there's not lots of stuff anyplace else now about... Well, part of, you know, the whole story was how Edward Bennett Williams, who I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, was basically George Preston Marshall's lawyer, you know, when Preston Marshall owned the Redskins. And then it was the whole process by which the team never made it to any of Preston Marshall's kids. There's a whole story there, and I can't remember the details, but it's fascinating on how that all worked. And then, you know, you know,

he purchased the Redskins in, when was it? It was the late 60s, early 70s, right? Who? Abw, I think, took over. He took over the operations in the early 60s, but when did he end up owning a majority stake? I don't think he ever owned a majority. You're right, he didn't.

That's true. It was always a minority interest. That's right. Yeah. That's right. But he was the managing general partner, I think. Oh, really? You know? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I mean, he was...

He was the one that hired George Allen. He was the one to hire Lombardi. Right. Remember, too, Tommy? I think this is part of all the president's men. Wasn't Edward Bennett Williams at one point thought to be a possibility for deep throat? I don't know because he was the post lawyer then. So I don't know how he could.

I mean, he was such a fixer in D.C. I doubt there's not much they knew that he didn't know what was going on. But I would have think that Nixon would have considered, and the Nixon White House would have considered EBW an enemy of the state. Yeah. So to speak. I'm looking, I just Googled it to see if I could find anything. that because I may have remembered that incorrectly.

Whatever. Whatever. We know that Mark Felt was Deep Throat. Many years, many years after the fact, after, of course, he had passed away. And, you know, whenever that was 10, 15 years ago, and Bob Woodward was able to tell us all who Deep Throat was. Right. You know, when I taught journals and writing classes, I don't teach that. anymore. I teach a business of sports media course now, but I'd always take one class and show all the

president's men to the group. And I'd say to him, you see this guy? This attorney general, he went to jail. You see this guy? See the staff at the White House? He went to jail. I point to all these people and say they all went to jail. I mean, most students found stunning. I mean, they had no idea. Yeah, well, courtesy of the summer of 1974 and Irvin and all of them on the Watergate Investigation Committee. Wow. I mean, it's such a great, you know, every time that movie's on, I like to watch it because the shots of Washington, Georgetown, of them driving in cars throughout town. God, the city looked totally different back then, and it was.

Yes, it did. Yeah, it was. It was a much different city. That's before my time. I got here in 83. There's a shot of them driving down M Street in Georgetown in that movie. And the truth is, you know, they're passing by the intersection of Wisconsin and M in Georgetown. And there isn't that much that looks that different today.

But, yeah, yeah, a lot of people. courtesy of John Dean's help. A lot of people went to jail and a president was forced to resign. All right, a quick word about Hydrant. We'll get to some sports related stuff here. Top performers in business and sports often attribute their success to their morning routine, whether it's waking up early, setting their goals for the day, exercise, or a meditation. But not everybody's got the time to do it all. With Hydrant, you can jumpstart your mornings. Did you know that 75% of us walking around everyday life are chronically dehydrated? We're suffering needlessly from frequent headaches, energy slumps, poor focus.

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That's my promo code. Drinkhydrant, h-y-d-r-a-n-t-t-com slash Shean, S-H-E-E-H-E-H-A-N, for 25% off your first order. Where do we start? The R-G-3-3. Wait a minute, before we get started. do more housekeeping things real quick. Okay. First of all,

I got this tweet the other day from Stephen B. That said, listening to Kevin C.N. D.C. and Tom Leverro on the latest podcast. And who do I see taking a walk in one of the Frederick neighborhood? The one at only Mr. Laverro getting his daily steps in. What a thrill. And, you know, when I walk, I mean, I don't like to talk to anybody.

You know, I got my headphones on. I'm listening to music. I'm smoking a cigar. I mean, I'm there for business. I'm not there for pleasure. Yeah, well, you're not a, you're a difficult guy when you're focused to break that concentration level. That's pretty funny. It was a few years ago, I don't remember what the interview was, but I remember specifically where I was.

had pulled up into the Safeway parking lot near my house, parked my car, I had my radio on listening to 980, and the car next to me had windows down. It was obviously during the summer, and I could hear our station, because it almost synced up in stereo. And it was Zabe's show, and he was playing an interview from my show with Cooley. He was replaying an interview with the show, and he was replaying, And I don't even remember what the interview was. I can't remember, but they were replaying it. And I'm sitting there, and the guy looks over at me, and he sees me, and his eyes light up, and he goes, oh, my God, I'm listening to you right now.

And I was just so thrilled that he recognized me, which, you know, as radio people, we both know this. occasionally we get recognized more often than not someone might recognize the voice but we live you know thankfully at least as far as i'm concerned in relative anonymity thank god not that we would be massively popular noticeable anyway out there but i do remember that which is sort of equivalent to what just happened with you yeah look i i like me like i said not when i'm walking necessarily, but I generally like it when people come up to me and recognize me and tell me they listen to me and all that. I do too. I always appreciate that. That never gets old. I totally agree. It's so nice when that happens.

Yes. The other thing is another benefit of Facebook is a long time ago, I had made a friend request to this person, probably years ago maybe, because his name came up somehow on Facebook. And I'd say, oh, that's, I thought that'd be pretty cool. So finally, he friended me back. Chuck Foreman. The Vikings, Chuck Foreman? The Vikings, Chuck Foreman, the former running back, who was from Frederick Maryland, I might point out. I didn't know.

Yeah. And he friended me back. Now, again, what are the, professionally, one of the values of Facebook is, I can't tell you how many times I needed to get in touch with somebody, and I found out they had a Facebook page, and I would message them, and they would get back to me. It happens a lot over the years. I've been able to get with a lot of now. I don't know if I ever want to talk to Chuck Foreman,

but I remember growing up watching Chuck Foreman. He was great. He was one of the elite running backs of the 70s. There were so many of them back then. It was a running back era, and he was one of the best. Two things about Chuck Foreman, I remember. Number one was him getting hit in the eye with a snowball in a game in Buffalo, which impaired his vision permanently, I believe.

Am I right about that? I'm pretty sure I'm right about that. I don't we call that. Number two is that Chuck Foreman in those Viking teams of the 70s became, at least based on my memory and my lifetime of watching football. the first team to really use running backs as pass receivers. Chuck Foreman led the league in receptions in 1975 with 73 receptions in that season as a running back. And so prior to then, you threw to wide receivers and tight ends. You really didn't throw or make the running backs a big part of your pass offense.

You may correct me on this, but I'm pretty. pretty sure that Chuck Foreman and those Viking teams with Fran Tarkington of the 70s were the first to really throw to the back. Do you remember that? I don't recall. You may be right. I'm trying to think back to some of the great teams, you know, like in the early 70s or the late 60s. And I don't recall a lot of teams that were, that truth that are back that much. I'm looking through past reception leaders going back, and I'm going to be able to correct myself immediately because Lydell Mitchell was the leading receiver in 1974 in Baltimore.

Oh, okay. So Bert Jones and Lydell Mitchell. Another great running back. Yeah, Lydell Mellner was a great running back Penn State. He had 72 receptions the year before. Chuck Foreman was eighth, so you had, and I'm looking at the top 10. That was it, just two running backs.

Actually, Terry Metcalf was in the top 10, too. And I do remember the Cardinals, you know, under Don Cori-El, because Cori-El coached those early to mid-70s Cardinals teams, Cori-L throwing to the backs, too. But in 1973, Harold Carmichael, Charlie Taylor, were your top two receivers. Now, Ed Podilax on this top 10 list, but everybody else is a wide receiver.

1972, Harold Jackson, Fred Bolitnikov, Chip Myers was a wide receiver in Cincinnati. All wide receivers or tight ends until you get to Art Malone at number eight, who was a fullback in Atlanta. I think he was Benny Malone's brother. Benny Malone eventually became a Redskins running back. In 1971, Tommy, well, Frenchie Fuqua was in the top six in receptions. But anyway, mostly receivers in tight ends before Lydell Mitchell in 74. who led the league, and then Chuck Foreman led the league in 75.

Mitchell was second in receptions in 75. God, Lydell Mitchell was really good. Yes, he was. And those cult teams were part of those AFL teams that kept banging their heads against the Steelers. And the Raiders. And the Raiders. The Patriots of the 70s are there Chuck Fairbanks and Steve Grogan?

Steve Grogan, yeah. Very good team. Very good team. team, a double-digit-winning team for a few years that just couldn't get past the Steelers or the Raiders. And the Dolphins, of course. And the Dolphins is an early part of the decades. Yeah, the AFC of the 70s was dominated by the Dolphins, Steelers, and Raiders. Now, the Steelers ended up being the team of the decade, but the Dolphins went to three consecutive Super Bowls

in 71, 72, and 73, those three seasons, and won two of them against the Redskins and the Vikings. And the Raiders only won one Super Bowl that decade, but they were constantly in AFC championship games against Pittsburgh. And you're right, Tommy, those cult teams with Birch Jones and Lydell Mitchell and Roger Carr and Dowdy and good defenses, Ted Marcha Broda coaching those teams, right? I think it was Ted Marcha Borgia. Yeah, with Ted Marchebroe. You had Joe Irman and John Dutton. Yeah, John Dutton. A defensive tackle. Right. They were constantly knocking on the door, but losing.

You know, they lost to Pittsburgh at home that small aircraft, right when the stadium emptied, crashed in the upper deck of Memorial Stadium. They lost in that famous 37-31 overtime game on Christmas Eve 77 to the Raiders. They lost, I think one of their losses was to the Dolphins in the AFC Championship game in the early 70s, but that wouldn't have been Bert Jones. That may have still been Earl Morrill or Johnny U. God, I told you the story about sitting on a flight

with Bert Jones, right? I don't see how you couldn't have. I don't remember it. Of course. I mean, he was one of my favorite. I know. I know I told you the story because I remember you being like, you know, Bert Jones was one of my favorites. This is early to mid-90s, maybe late 90s. I had a flight to New Orleans

on the plane. I sit down. I'm sitting there reading the paper or whatever. And then somebody sits down next to me. And, you know, five minutes later, I look up and it's Bert Jones. And I said, I said to him, I said, Bert Jones. And he said, yeah. Like, I think he was surprised that anybody would recognize him, you know, basically

20 years after he played. We ended up having the nicest conversation. I was going through all the games. I remember they played the Red Skin. back-to-back years, Tommy, on Monday night football in 77 and 78. So this was a George Allen team, the final year, and a Jack Party coach team. Both of the games were in Memorial Stadium. You know, back then there was no rhyme nor reason to how you played AFC opponents.

You know, although now I'm wondering, did the Redskins just have a locked-in thing with the Colts every year? Is that possible? Let me just go back. In 76 did they play the Colts? It's not showing up here. I don't know if they did or didn't. Anyway, 77-78, they played the Colts on Monday night football. In 77, it was a driving rainstorm at Memorial Stadium,

and the Redskins lost 10 to 3. It was a crushing loss. The Redskins didn't go to the playoffs that year. and Bert Jones was the quarterback in that game. But the famous Bert Jones game, one of the most famous games of his career, came the following year on a Monday night football game at Memorial Stadium against the Redskins, right? 78?

Maybe it was 79. No, 78. And Bert Jones rallied the Colts back with two second half touchdown passes, to Roger Carr. He had basically a separated, was playing with a separated shoulder. He was hurt, and he threw three touchdowns. I think it was three or four touchdowns. And I remember talking to him about that game, and he said, that's right up there with the most memorable games of my career. Because, you know, the Redskins, even though they weren't, you know, a division or a conference rival, it was a big game. And it was Monday night football. And, you know, I let us back to

to a win in that game. You know, I don't think I, and one of the things I liked about him, I don't think I ever saw a quarterback berate his teammates publicly as much as Bert Jones would. Oh, really? For there, for everybody to see on TV, and they all coward and fear of them.

He must have been a tough guy, because he didn't get any pushback from teammates, and he would ream them out for everybody to see if they weren't doing what he thought they should be doing. That's what I think I remember distinctly about Bert Jones, very demonstrative in his public criticism or dressing down of teammates. Interesting. Yeah, I didn't know that.

By the way, the Redskins didn't play the Colts every year, but they did play him back to back in 77 and 78. I've watched this game. It's available on YouTube. It starts with Howard CoSell interviewing Bert Jones and Billy Kilmer on the field before the game, and then they go into the Monday Night football theme right after that. So anyway, how did we get on this? Oh, Bert Jones was on a flight with me to New Orleans.

He was going home because he's from New Orleans. Right. I mentioned Chuck Foreman. That's how this all started. Oh, that's how this all started. Okay. Let's start with Jack Del Rio and what he did on Twitter the other night. And I didn't do the show yesterday, so I didn't have a chance to weigh in on this.

And I'm sure you followed this as well. Jack Del Rio, for those that missed it and are hearing about it for the first time, on Tuesday night, you know, really got active on Twitter, which he has been very active on Twitter. It was only a couple of months ago on the radio show. like, hey, Jack, you may want to just tone it down a little bit on Twitter, because Tommy, I don't know if you recall this, but in April, so about two and a half months ago, it was early April, he got duped by a parody site called the Babylon B, a fake site, you know, a comedy site, basically, because they put this fake story out there that was titled, Liberal Treated with HydroxyC,

Florequin hopes he still dies of COVID-19 to prove that Trump is stupid. And Jack Del Rio retweeted that and wrote pure ignorance. And of course, people lit him up with, dude, it isn't real. He never responded to that. So the other night, he was really active on Twitter again. This is the Redskins' new defensive coordinator. You know, coming into an organization that's preaching culture change and really making a lot of moves that speak to the times, Tommy, wouldn't you say?

Oh, yes. Absolutely. Talk about the word woke. Yeah, all the sudden. Yes, if you wanted to change the name of the red skin, woke would be a good name change. Well, right now they're keeping their regular name. I know. But anyway, Del Rio basically revealed himself to be quite the conservative.

pro-Donald Trump supporter. And let me explain a few of the reasons why. Well, first of all, he got duped by another fake tweet. Now, have you been duped by a fake tweet before and responded to something or retweeted something that you got wrong? I think I did it once several years ago. Well, look, as much as I force myself into remembering to always double-check, like an Adam Schuster tweet or a buster only tweet, just to make sure it is exactly them and not just

one letter off or one syllable off or once in a while I'll make the mistake of retweeting something from somebody who's reporting news, legitimate news, and it'll be from a fake website or a fake Twitter name. But I don't think I've ever actually retweeted a whole fake story. Have you ever, when you've done that, have you just apologized for it or have you just deleted it? Oh, I've done both. I delete it and apologized for it. Okay. So that brings us to Jack Del Rio on Tuesday night, the new Redskins defensive coordinator. So there was this fake tweet that made the rounds as if it had come from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's account, AOC's account. It read as follows. It's vital that governors maintain restrictions on businesses until after the November elections because economic recovery will help Trump be reelected.

A few businesses, a few business closures or job losses is a small price to pay to be free from his presidency. Hashtag, keep us closed. So somebody put that out on Monday and they dated it like in May. Now, I know a lot of people that would have read that and would have legitimately thought that it was, real coming from that particular source, AOC. But to your point, old Jack Del Rio, Rear, defensive coordinator, he may be able to size up an offense Tommy, but he can't size up a fake tweet at this point.

No, no, he can't. He retweeted it and wrote, wow, question mark, exclamation point, exclamation point, proof, dot, dot, dot, come on, AOC. And he got taken to the woodshed. on this. So that started a night of him on Twitter, which included him retweeting a Candice Owens video. If you don't know who Candice Owens is, she's a super conservative, Trump-supporting black female pundit. And, you know, if you've, all you got to do is Google Candice Owens to find out about her. She's got a massive following, but obviously is a highly controversial figure.

He retweeted one of her tweets and videos. He then liked the following two tweets, one of which was a Candice Owens tweet that read as follows. I'm just amazed that so many people actually believe that someone left a noose in Bubba Smolett's NASCAR Garage. She referred to him as Bubba Smollett. I mean, really, people, it's 20, 20, folks, anytime someone claims an old-fashioned noose was used, there's a 99.999% chance it's a hoax. That was tweeted out by Candice Owens on June 23rd, and Jack Del Rio on Tuesday night liked that tweet. He also liked one of Charlie Kirk's tweets, if you don't know who Charlie Kirk is, another major super conservative pundit.

He tweeted out, someone who tries to topple a monument to a U.S. president is not a protester. they're a rioter and a criminal. Time to start quickly arresting and indicting the domestic terrorists who are doing damage to America. Then he got a tweet, which has now been deleted. Actually, it's back up. It was deleted this morning. It's back up. He got a tweet that said, just found out Coach Del Rio is a Trump supporter.

Wish these old racists would stay off Twitter. Del Rio retweeted it. wrote, I'm 100% for America. If you're not, you can kiss my ass. And it was actually A with dollar sign, dollar sign in caps. Well, I guess the dollar sign wouldn't technically be a cap. But the A is in caps. So that's the night he had on Tuesday night.

You can start with your reaction, and then I'll give you mine. Well, this is what I brought up earlier to you. now this is more of a coach player thing than a player player thing. But I think NFL locker room, where politics, you know, everyone had sort of like not so respected, but built up their own personal walls about their own politics inside a locker room. Right. You know, and put them aside for the team business.

You know, I think that's going to be different come September. in October, particularly fueled with what will be a very volatile election and a very emotional election. And given what we've been through in the past couple of months and the message that silence is no longer an option, I think there's going to be some more NFL players than ever that are going to have be outspoken about their positions inside that room. and it may conflict with people. And, you know, there's this feeling right now.

If you're not with us, then you're part of the problem. Well, of course there's that feeling right now. There's definitely, as we've discussed, you know, an effort to eradicate free speech and free alternative opinion speech in particular in this country right now. Something that we've spent time talking about before in previous podcasts, don't need to go there now. I know you've said that, and I didn't disagree with it. In fact,

I could totally see it becoming much more of an issue now than maybe it's ever been in the past, even going back to, as we discussed, I think, the other day, you know, the 1968 election between Humphrey and Nixon. You know, it was just a different environment back then. But to me, it's even more potentially damaging or influencing on a locker room with a coach who's being asked to lead and lead a locker room. I can't go down the list of defensive players or offensive players. It really doesn't matter. The players in the locker room, I don't know what their politics are, but I would guess that the majority are very much involved in what,

has been going on now, will vote for Biden and are anti-Trump. And many of which in the locker room, black and white, by the way, who will believe that if you are a pro-Trump, you're a racist. You know, that there's something bad about you. I think that will be the prevailing notion. It will be the majority. Well, you agree with me. We can't sit here and say every one of his players are going to disagree with him because we don't know that. No, we don't know that.

But the majority will. We can guess on that. Yes. Yes. Yes, I would agree with that. But, I mean, this is the kind of thing that you're right. For a coach, could be very divisive inside that locker room. I mean, to the point where, let's say you've got the defensive players who life Jack Del Rio, no matter what is politics.

And you've got offensive players, you know, who never spend any time with that. Del Rio, who were just totally offended by what he said and what he's done on social media, you could divide defense versus offense. For a coach, for the defense coordinator, arguably the second. Wouldn't you say Del Rio, it's second in command behind Ron Rivera? Yeah, definitely on the coaching staff, for sure. Yeah. It's not Scott Turner.

No, no, he's not the son of a coach, you know, getting his first real game. gig. So, yeah, this could be very volatile, and I'd be shocked if you see anything else from Jack Dale Rio politically on social media as long as he's with this team. Okay, I want to get to that in a moment, but I, we've talked about going back to Kaepernick. You know, freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequence. I think everybody understands that. You know, you have the right. to say what you want. And if he's really passionate about his politics and he's not concerned about the consequence, more power to him. He has that right. But the consequence in his environment right now is what we're discussing here in the moment. Tom thinks it could be very divisive in the locker

room. I would not discount that as a possibility. I also wouldn't discount the possibility that you get to training camp and it's all about football and that he's an excellent football coach, which everybody knows. No one's ever said anything other than Jack Del Rio is a really good defensive coach, you know, at the very least. But he was against players kneeling back in 2017, even though he gave in and, you know, he made it very clear he was against it, but he did give in and allow players, especially Marshawn Lynch,

who had been sitting for the anthem for years, and no one even really knew it or said anything about it. But before we even get to a locker room situation, you just talked about you doubt if you'll ever see anything more political from Jack Del Rio on his Twitter account. First of all, he has yet to delete the retweet of AOC's tweet. He's not apologized for anything. He hasn't made a statement. I can't imagine, Tommy, and some will disagree because they'll say, well, that's his, he's his apologies. line up with Snyder's politics. It doesn't matter. Snyder is in a business right now. Snyder wants

a football team, wants a culture change, and wants this Ron Rivera thing to work out. I can't imagine he's thrilled, and I cannot imagine that Ron Rivera is thrilled, that Jack Del Rio, a new prominent voice in an organization that needs to change its culture, is, you know, taking his politics public. Especially since Ron Rivera has been so open and up front and trying to leave the organization in step with the movement

that we're seeing in the country. Ron Rivera basically and the Redskins organization has embraced the Black Lives Matter movement. They've created a commission, a council which I doubt that Jack Del Rio is going to be a part of at this point. And look, you're at the point now where news organizations are writing stories about your social

media. That's a problem. Yeah. When people are writing stories about what you post on social media and you're a defensive coordinator on a football team, you've got a big problem. Yeah, but nothing's been done so far about that problem. Are they hoping it'll go away? because if they're hoping it'll go away with response to public reaction,

you know, then we get to the time where his players are together with him. Does he have to address his players? You know, and on some level, you know, I do believe he should be who he is and he should say, I have the right to my beliefs. I have a right to vote for who I want to vote for. I have the right to believe in what I want to believe, and so do you. And I support that right. I support your right to believe and vote for whom.

you want to vote for and I'd ask that you support mine or does it have to go further where he has to really explain and justify and rationalize or backtrack, which I don't see him doing personally. Well, here's the thing. What are the Redskins going to do at this point? Are they going to fire him before the season even starts? No, they're not going to do that. Okay, he probably has a multi-year contract. getting paid a decent amount of money. And imagine there's a town in Pennsylvania not far from where I lived called Centralia. Okay. That's John Riggins' hometown in Kansas.

In Kansas, well, in Centralia, Pennsylvania, it was mine country. And there was a mine fire that was burning under the town that made the town toxic. And they couldn't put it out. And everybody had to move out. And the whole town was abandoned, and now the state has blocked it off because there were a lot of like onlookers and tourists who would go take a look at this ghost town. Because the mine fire is still burning underneath the town. You can still see smoke coming up through the streets and stuff. Well, the Redskins have been a mine fire for years.

And Ron Rivera has moved in, and he's expected to put the mine fire. out. And you can't have, when you're trying to do this, you can't get back to a situation like this. This is like a mine fire all of a sudden blowing right up again. It's so Redskins. Yes, this is what I mean. I mean, the Redskins, they're not going to fire him because people would say, oh, my God, so much for culture change. They're firing their defensive coordinator for being on social media before the season even started. But, and you're right, there's one scenario where, you know, he speaks to the team.

This gets resolved for football sake, and everyone is on the same football page. But the other scenario is it becomes an issue as they gather to play football over the course of a year and comes to a very ugly situation inside the locker room or inside the building at some point. There are going to be players who are going to be angry at some point. with Jack Dale Rio over football matters. And all of a sudden it's going to pop in their head, this bigot doesn't like me. This guy's a bigot, and he's out to get me.

Yeah, in this environment, that's definitely in play. You know, going back to player arguments versus a coach, you know, leaders have to be empathetic. You expect, you know, employees to have disagreements or to even have, you know, sketchy morals. But when you're asked to be a leader like he is as a coach, people in charge can't have the perception of having hate, you know, in their heart. And I'm not suggesting that he does. Please don't get me wrong. I support his First Amendment right.

Now, 2020, there is a certain feeling that people are not going to give in on, and that is if you vote for Trump, you're voting for hate. And as a leader in an organization and as a coach, Tommy, it's going to be a very difficult position given his constituency, if you will, the players that he's being asked to lead to get past that. I don't know what'll happen with it. I do think netting it out from my perspective, it was dumb. Like you're in a new organization.

Know a little bit about the organization you're in and the trouble that they have had and the culture you're entering and you want to be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. Don't be tone deaf to the times because there's a certain level of his profile publicly that speaks to a tone deafness to what's going on right now. You know, he's entitled to free speech. He's entitled to his opinion. He's not entitled to freedom of consequence. And the consequence is, you know,

eight out of ten people responding, many of whom are Redskinned fans, were outraged and disappointed. Yes, I think you're right. Again, you know, having a perception of the situation you're in, of all teams, If you don't understand what the Redskins need to do here in order to be successful, not just football talent-wise, not just coaching-wise, but culture-wise,

then you're not the right guy for the job, actually. Yeah, exactly. Net it out. Will anything happen? I think something will happen. I don't know how dramatic it will be. I think something will happen. happen. Look, I'm sorry, but, you know, I'm the house, and I'm betting on the aura of self-destruction every time, okay?

Every time, until proven otherwise, you know, you don't beat the champ. You're not the champ until you beat the champ. And right now that Redskins are the champions of the aura of self-destruction. And the whole culture change right now, it's wishful. at this point. I am convinced that he has been spoken to by at least Ron Rivera, who is, by the way, the head of the organization. Now, he's running this organization. I would bet you Ron had a little conversation with Jack that said, hey, Jack, I don't know if

you've been paying attention to the last month or the last three or four weeks, but these comments don't help us. and right now we hired you to help us, not hurt us. I don't have any problem with your beliefs. Expressing them right now is a problem for your employer and a problem for me who swore by you in hiring you. Yeah. Now, you know, Jack may not be the smartest pencil in the box.

I responded to something he tweeted, you know, throughout all this, in the middle of all this. It was pretty nondescript. This was about, you know, starting the NFL season, you know, with coronavirus and all that. And Jack Del Rio tweeted, I think most players understand the risk of playing the game of football. The priority is not trying to be perfectly safe. If so, perhaps you should never drive your car. So I retweeted it.

and keep axes out of the locker room. Was it in Oakland? It was in Jacksonville. Oh, Jacksonville. He brought an axe into the locker room at some kind of symbolic, I don't know, chopping wood kind of thing. And I guess a rookie punter was playing with it

and chopped off a piece of their leg. Oh, my God. Let's get to Robert Griffin III. A quick mention that you can listen to the radio show, 6 to 9 a.m. On the Team 980 app, the Team 980.com, or on 980 or in 95.9 FM, if you're in D.C. and you're driving around. Many more people now are out and about in the mornings, which is good to see. Before real quickly, we get to RG3. I wanted to read this quote from Zekeel Elliott.

You know, he tested positive for coronavirus. The NFL, by the way, canceled the Hall of Fame game between the Cowboys and the Steelers. on August 6th, and they've canceled the enshrinement activities for the Hall of Fame as well. That could be the beginning here of something. But Zechiel Elliott in Dallas tested positive. He said he's feeling better. You know, he had some shortness of breath, but he's feeling much better and he thinks he's going to be better. But he had a couple of quotes that I wanted to read to you because this really does speak to

a lot of what you've been talking about over the last month, and that is how the players are going to feel about this. He said, quote, I just feel like there's a lot of moving parts that have to be figured out. I just don't know how they can keep the players healthy. You've got to put the health of the players first. And it's not even so much, I would say, the players' health, because I got corona.

It really didn't affect me much. But a lot of people have kids. They may have kids with asthma. They may have newborn babies. their parents or grandparents may live with them. We have to find ways to make sure that players and their families and the coaches also and their families aren't put at risk, closed quote. There's no real way to do this.

There's no real way to make everybody safe. It's a crapshoot. I told CJ this morning, if you took a poll twice a week on whether or not you think sports are going to return. Take the NFL. Whether or not you think the NFL is going to start on time. And then a second question, whether or not you think the NFL will play a completed season,

a 16-game season through the Super Bowl. Right now, I think based on the increased cases in COVID-19 and all of these players testing positive in all these different sports, golf, the NBA, etc., you'd have 50% plus saying, not going to start on time, not going to finish a completed season. A month ago, I think you would have had 80% of the people say that they'll start on time and you'll have a completed season.

You know, we could move forward three weeks and have medication or have a decreasing number of cases and feel good about it again. But right now, today, with the increasing cases nationwide, with the number of players that are getting it, I don't think. the season will start on time, and I don't think they'll play a full season. Wow. I hope I'm wrong. I hope you're wrong. I hope that's wrong. I hope that's wrong. I hope that I'm hoping, again, hope but time that seems to be moving without any real progress that we see. Let me make this about me like I usually do. We're moving ahead with our plans

in the middle of August to go to Wildwood for a week. Right. I know I talked about this before. You have to go out to Spokane first. And I'm not going. Liz is going to do it. Oh, she is? Yeah.

Well, that's a change. That's a change in plans. Yeah. Yeah. Liz is going to do it and bring her back. But I'm trying to, I really have a guy who tries to prepare as much as I can for every scenario. you know, before I go into it.

So I'm trying to figure out the things I can do to reduce my risk this week that we're going to be spending in a condo with my granddaughter from Washington State, my son, who from Baltimore, my niece from Florida, and I purchased one of those thermometers that, you know, you just touch on the forehead. I've got a blood ox meter to check your blood oxygen level because I've been told that that is a way to test. It's important. And I'm going to have a – have you had a coronavirus test? I have not.

I'm going to have one about a week or so – about a week before we go. I can't force everybody else to have them. You know, I'm going to recommend it, but everyone's got to make their own decision. But I'm going to have the test, too. just, which is no guarantee. I mean, you know, I mean, I could have the test, you know, not test positive for it, and then all of a sudden get it the next day and not even know it. So I don't know.

And again, I mean, this is a risk that I really don't have to take. I mean, I don't have to go. We don't have to go on this vacation. But it feels like it just feels sort of surrendering by not. going. I don't know why. I've been real cautious. I know you have. I'm actually surprised that you're moving forward with this vacation. I'm not I'm not advocating one way or the other. But I am surprised given how cautious and angst ridden over this thing you've been since day one when you said, Kevin, this thing's gutting for me. That was day one. That was one. That was

Rudy Gobert plus one. I think that's how we should refer to it now. Rudy Gobert plus one. Rudy Gobert plus one, it was, this thing's coming for me, Kevin. And so, yeah, I'm surprised you're going to go through with this. I am very happy, actually, even though I know it's going to be a pain in the ass for Liz.

I think you getting onto a cross-country flight in a confined airplane. I mean, you would have had to take, you know, multiple anxiety meds just to make it through or just, you know, loaded up on scotch. She's got to be at risk. She's got to be at risk, too. But it's not gunning for her like it's been gunning for you. Am I right or wrong?

Maybe I'm wrong about that. No, she's the same age. Yeah, but you've had a bunch of stuff. What is this bunch of stuff? Well, you've had a lot of respiratory stuff. I had bronchitis A lot you've had bronchitis over the last few years

No I've had allergy problems over the years I don't But as much as you want me to have asthma I don't have asthma Well you've had lung You've had lung related issues At times over the last couple of years Well would you get on a plane

If you had to in cross country If I had to Yes, I would. Well, what makes you any better than me? I don't have... You have asthma. I have asthma for two weeks during the spring when the trees and the tree pollen is really high. That's it.

I don't have asthma at any other point. I've allergy-induced asthma for a week or two during the spring, and that's it. You have... You're the guy on pain, it's not me. Well, I mean, I would have been an MF or... If I hadn't have had the pain meds on Monday, I would have been a pain in the ass for everybody in my house. All right, let's get to this RG3 stuff, all right? RG3, if you miss this, and I would urge everybody to go listen to it,

John Kime did a really, really good job in interviewing Robert Griffin, the third, for 45 minutes on his podcast. So same way you get our podcast, you can get John's podcast. You can also go to his Twitter page at John underscore Kime, and he's got a link directly to the interview with RG3 there. John has been, he told, I asked him because I had him on the show today, you know,

how he got that interview, because Griffin really hasn't talked Tommy in a long time, not about D.C. You know, in the experience here. And he said that, you know, he's been in a conversation with him about doing something.

And then Griffin put out a video on Friday about him being very active in, in causes involving racial injustice. and he put out this seven-minute video, which was very well done. And John called him up and said, look, we can talk about the video as well, and Griffin agreed to do it, you know, to do the interview. We're going to play a couple of sound bites.

We're not going to play a significant percentage of the interview. And we'll talk about a couple of the other sound bites. The first one dealt with RG3's perception, you know, and John asked him, the perception of you versus the reality, reality of you are people surprised when they get to know you and he said this. I mean, you know, to keep it 100, you know, the media coverage of me in Washington by you as well was part of that reason that people, as you say, might have been pleasantly surprised or you're

able to change the perspective or change the narrative. The people who've always known me, have always known that I've always been this guy, the people who really sit down. and look at what happened in Washington, know exactly why that happened. And, you know, from what I've learned is, obviously, how to navigate it and how to, you know, just be to be yourself and let the rest of it take care of itself.

So when I got to Baltimore, you know, to be honest, part of the reason I was out of the league was because of that bad perception. In 17, I was pretty upset about that because I know, I know, you know, you know, the person that I am and the teammate that I am,

and I've had that echoed to me by teammates that it was unfair that I had that perception so when I got to Baltimore they just kind of brought me in and said look man go be yourself you know we got your back and you know hopefully you can show us that you can make this team and I went and I did that and I think I've proven to the Baltimore Ravens and hopefully to the rest of the league that

whatever happened in Washington wasn't a byproduct of me not working hard wasn't a byproduct of me being a bad teammate or any of the negative things that were written. That was just a byproduct of an angry coach. And, you know, that's just the bottom line. So I think I've proven to the Ravens and to the rest of the league

that my character has always has always been what it has been from when I came out of college, and I'm a hardworking, dedicated person who's going to do whatever he has to do to help the team wins. So that's RG3 taking a shot there at the D.C. media. One of the interesting things about this interview, Tommy, if you listen to it, like I did, start to finish. At the very end of the interview, Griffin says to John, I'm paraphrasing here, I'm glad we were able to do this without it turning into a finger-pointing session. Well, you'll hear it.

All he did throughout was finger-point. And it started with him blaming the media for part of the reason that he was out of football in 2017 and that this narrative about the media, the media's perception of him was wrong. He also referred to this being a situation where he was the product of an angry coach. first of all on the media stop I know where you're going to go with this I think I can predict it

but you're not you weren't the victim here you just weren't there's a lot of stuff that happened that you were responsible for the owner was the coach was but this wasn't media influenced I agree

I mean I don't know why you think I'm going to go if I'm going to go someplace different I mean the whole victim card That's what he continues to play. Look, this guy's a fraud, and he remains a fraud. You know, he's done nothing to recognize his role in the whole debacle that happened here in Washington. And he continues to do so. He continues to paint himself as some kind of victim.

When he left, Washington, basically, what did he? He posted something on his locker. that didn't reference them, but was some kind of thing. It was a victim statement. You referred to it. Yeah, I called it. I can't remember specifically what it said either, but I remember you being spot on in your description. Yeah, victim impact statement, basically.

You know, that's what it was. And so, I mean, I'm so tired of this guy because he's such a phony and such a fraud. and continues to be so. I mean, he, he, he just hasn't learned anything, you know. I mean, he thinks he's still that guy. Look, this was a guy who told, what was it, Alex Parker on Channel 9 back then. Channel 7, right?

Seven, was it Channel 7? I apologize for that, Alex. Yeah, Alex is a great guy. Yeah, W-J-O-A. I think he was Channel 7. I'm almost positive. Yeah, that he was the best quarterback on the team and one of the best quarterbacks in the league. And two days later, he lost his job. Right.

You know? So talk about not having a clue as to reality. This guy still doesn't have a clue. Two things real quickly in response to what you said. Three, actually. One is I agree with almost everything you said. Two, this was a 22-year-old. year old caught up in a terrible organization, as we know, with an owner who saddled up next to him

and made him, you know, his best friend, which was an odd circumstance to begin with for a 50-year-old man to be, you know, try to become best friends with a 22-year-old rookie quarterback. It was him siding with RG3 over his coach at any, you know, at any turn, which really started towards the end of the 2012 season when Griffin got hurt against Baltimore and had to sit out the Cleveland game and really should have sat out even more than the Cleveland game. And Griffin held his own press conference irate after a big win by the Redskins on the way to the playoffs, held his own personal press conference after that game, which was supported by the owner. The owner tried to convince the coach that he should play before that game, even though the doctors had said he

absolutely shouldn't, and Griffin's out doing his pregame warm-up, much to the dismay of the coaches and the doctors, but he didn't want Kirk Cousins to play. And when Kirk Cousins played and didn't run one zone read the entire game, all hell broke loose after that. There was a trust that went away, even though Cleveland was set up for bootleg after bootleg, and the game plan, Cooley said he was on the team, would have absolutely included bootleg after bootleg had Robert started. and maybe a zone read play or two, but they didn't run zone read a lot in every game. And Cleveland played the kind of defense.

It basically set it up for a big bootleg and play action game. And Kirk ended up throwing for 300 yards, and they won that game, and they kept on pace during that seven-game winning streak to a division title. But he doesn't take any responsibility for any of it. even though even a casual observer would certainly at least make them partially culpable for what happened here. But I do think he entered a difficult organization with a very difficult owner situation where the owner did not understand that you have hierarchy in the locker room and it's player to coach, not player to owner. and that path and that relationship was very damaging.

But the last thing I just wanted to mention before we get to the next bite is in listening to him, man, does he still have the it factor? He is charismatic. He is smart. He is really a phenomenal communicator and thinker. And he talked Tommy at the end about being in. activist that could potentially lead to politics in a political career. He said he's not looking for it, but if it comes his way because of his activism,

I can absolutely picture 10 years from now, maybe sooner, that Robert Griffin III is still a prominent figure. You can tell this guy's always had the charm and the charisma and the quick, you know, intelligence is one of the things, in addition to his incredible athletic ability that's made him so attractive and made him what he was, which was a star in 2012. Well, it certainly fooled me. I mean, I was his biggest fan.

Right. I mean, I was the one who thought he was a media darling. He still has that, doesn't he? Yeah. Yeah, he does. But, and, you know, he could always find. like, you know, other media maybe who don't have the perspective that we had here in Washington and places that will never see that.

It's just hard for me to take him seriously. I mean, there were so much in that podcast that was so phony and false, actually. Which parts were absolutely false? What stuck in? This notion, and I know this is a big deal for you, and we have a difference of opinion on him on this, is how hurt he was in that Seattle playoff game. Let's play that part first. Okay. All right.

This was, he was actually asked, a lot of the questions led to so much more, but John asked him about what it was like to deal with so much scrutiny coming out as the Heisman trophy winner, and he'll get into as part of this. conversation, him realizing when he watched the tape of the Seattle game, how hurt he really was. You come out of college and have all the excitement and all the hype, and you go out and you deliver, right? You deliver, and your team wins the division. You win rookie of the year. And then you have a bad injury, right? So I think it was all part of it.

The scrutiny wasn't an issue. I think, you know, organizationally, you have to have everybody, has to have the same vision and unfortunately that just wasn't the case you know i think i don't think that's uh lost on anybody at this point you know i go back and i look i've looked at that uh 2012 season uh 2013 playoffs uh in the past i don't anymore but i look at it in the past and i'm like man like you watch the tape and you're like wow you know i was really hurt right right and um and i think the the thing that you take away from it is you just you don't uh it's tough to put a young man in that position.

And I'm 30, and I'm still a young man, but I understand that better now. And I wish it had gone differently, but it didn't, you know, and that's the bottom line. So I don't really sit here and cry over spill. Right. And you just, you move on from it, you learn from it. And you understand that there were a lot more factors in play that were going on there. For me, the bottom line was I got hurt and I got hurt one too many times. and it didn't work out for me.

It wasn't meant for me to be a Washington Redskins for my whole career. That's the way I look at it. Now, there's learning experiences from that. Right. Do you wish that everybody was aligned? Yes, but at the end of the day, they weren't, you know. And that's just the bottom one. You have to move off from it.

And I think I've done a good job of that moving on to Baltimore and really just maximizing the opportunity that I have with such a great organization. So there's a lot there in addition to just the reference to the injury. But what did you want to say about the Seattle game? Well, he references it in there how hurt he was. You know, and this never gets mentioned because you can't find it anywhere, I don't think. But we know it exists because you and I heard it. There's him talking to Trent Williams on the sideline.

During the game. Right, it was an NFL films pickup. It's an NFL films pickup, yeah. I don't have it ready to go here, yeah. Okay, do you have it? Are you sure? Well, I know I've listened to it and watched it many times. Okay, okay.

Go back and look for it. I could be wrong on this, but it's difficult to find, where he basically, you know, talking to Trent Williams about, you know, that he's hurt, and then he says, don't tell coach. Right. You know? Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, this guy, I mean, basically is on film trying to do everything he can to hide from his coach where you need to be most honest is how hurt you are.

That's the time where you need to be the most honest with your coach. And he's asking one of the team captains not to tell the coach. There are several things about that. Number one is that the doctors never knew how hurt he was because he didn't allow them to find out how hurt he was. Mike has mentioned many times. And again, this is one of those, do you believe Mike? Do you believe RG3? We know that RG3 after the game said he wasn't coming out of that game.

This was his team. I'm paraphrasing at this point. I'm actually looking for the quote because I had it here at one point. point. Let me see if I can find it. Here it is. Quote, I'm the quarterback of this team. My job's to be out there if I can play. And to answer the next question, no, I don't feel like me being out there hurt the team in any way. I'm the best option for this team. And that's why I'm the starter, close quote. There are many people out there that would say that it's not his job to make the decision on, you know, that the team should have saved him from from himself. But he was sabotaging that opportunity by, you know, not letting Dr. Andrews even look at

him. By telling Dr. Andrews at halftime, it's the brace that's making me limp. And they went and readjusted the brace at half time. Mike is coaching in a playoff game and he's being told by the doctor, he's good to go. It's the brace. Remember at halftime, Mike told us when he wasn't there for some of the meetings, Kirk was going to start that second half. that Mike thought he was compromised, but he had to rely on the doctor. And the doctor said he's fine. It's the brace that's bothering him. It was also, you know my view.

It was a playoff game. Philip Rivers had played on a torn ACL in a playoff game. And nobody said boo about it. Griffin didn't want to get pulled out. They wanted to win that game. and the description that you and others had of him carrying his leg around as he was moving was a major exaggeration. You go way off the rails on this, Kevin.

Well, Zabe described it that way. And listen to the play-by-play of Redskins voice of the Redskins, Larry Michael, of R.G.3 during the game. nobody described it worse than the Redskins' own play-by-play guy. What does that mean? I'm telling you what I saw watching the game. And you or Zabe came in the next day and said that he was carrying his leg around, which was hyperbole. The team spokesman who had everything to gain by covering it up.

That's funny. You know, basically said, basically described the guy who was crippled playing the position. Yeah. And I was there in the stadium. He shouldn't have been in the game. I would say most people feel that way. That's one of those I don't think you'll ever be able to change my mind on it.

During the game, I remember thinking, man, should he be in this game? But after hearing all of the stories about essentially the cover-up of him being hurt, I don't blame anybody for not pulling him. I don't. Here's the, there's so much to this interview. We'll play one more soundbite here and talk about this one. This was the soundbite where John asked him whether or not his personal ego played a role in what happened in Washington. I don't, just because, you know, I don't look at it that way anymore at all because, like you said, I think it's been well documented.

Yeah. I kind of went on there, and that was a power struggle between the owner and the coach, and I got stuck in the middle. Yep. So, you know, it's really tough to be, you know, it's tough to be an African-American quarterback in the NFL. And you see nowadays, like I think our past two MVPs have been African-American. You got my guy, Russell Wilson, you know, going out there doing their thing, and it's starting to turn the tide. but African American quarterbacks have always been scrutinized in a different way, whether people would like to admit that or not,

and that's part of this conversation. Right. It's part of the systemic racism. It's part of prejudice. It's part of those stereotypes that we're trying to eliminate. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think that that played a role. I don't know on an individual level. I'm not calling anybody anything.

No, I got you. I know it played a role somehow. And at the end of the day, it was a power struggle between the owner and the head coach. And I had no idea what was going on. And I paid for it. At the end of the day, I paid for it. But I think that that experience has made me a better man. It's made me a better leader.

You know, it's helped me in steering as much as I possibly can, you know, my teammate, Lamar Jackson, in the right direction. Lamar's his own man, and I respect him for it. But the advice I've been able to give him in those conversations that we've been able to have, I've only been able to have them because of the experience that I had. And I don't think anybody wants that experience, but at the end of the day, you have to maximize your experiences in this life. And I think I've tried to do that to the best of my ability and give that to the Ravens the best way I can.

Well, there was a lot in that answer. First of all, the beginning of it, he doesn't take any, he doesn't believe his personal ego played a role in anything that happened in D.C. I think most would disagree with that. He talked about the power struggle between coach and owner, and that's fair. And was he stuck in the middle? Yes, he was. I don't believe what he believes, which is that he had a coach that never wanted him. I don't believe that. Mike never told him. us that Mike expressed concerns about drafting him but was on board with drafting him. He was not at gunpoint forced to go along with the RG3 selection. And in fact, but it was not his idea. The idea to trade up for a potential quarterback, he was not against. God, you and I do this. We've done this so many times. I've got to go back and play it for you again. Mike has told me this. I've followed up. with him in recent years. He was not against the trade. He was worried and concerned that they were going to have to play football a different way, and he wanted Dan and Bruce to understand that,

and made it very clear that Robert was not ready to be your traditional dropback quarterback, that we were going to have to play football a different way, and were they okay with that? They didn't know what that meant because they don't know anything about football. But Kyle designed the offense and off and running they were. And the other part of this is that even Robert, I think in the past, has admitted that the relationship between he and the teammates and the coaching staff, even at 3 and 6, was really good. There weren't any issues there. The issues started after he got hurt and after cousins played because there was tension, as Colt McCoy has mentioned before, between those two from the jump because Kirk was ready to play a traditional style of football.

And Robert wasn't. That wasn't what he did at Baylor. But it really didn't matter. They were having success. They won seven straight games. They got to the postseason. And then he mentioned this thing about race playing a role in what happened in Washington. He said race played a role in some way.

What do you think he was referring to? I'm not sure. What do you think he was referring to? I didn't know, and I asked John this morning. And John said, I think he wasn't referring to anybody specifically or the organization, but just the experience overall of the black quarterback and the pressure. And then the opportunities or the limited number of opportunities that you are afforded if it doesn't work out in a big way right from the jump.

John thinks that he was referring to, you know, that he, you know, there's a lot in this interview about 2017 and him being completely out of football and him not getting more opportunities to start. He had to take this Baltimore opportunity because it was essentially one of the only opportunities out there. And he nearly didn't make the team the first year he was in Baltimore. He had to play well in a preseason game against Miami to select. his position as, you know, the third-string quarterback behind Flacco and Lamar Jackson two years ago, and then last year is the backup behind Jackson. There is this sense that he has that he should be starting. You got that sense, right? Oh, yeah. And so I think John's feeling was the reference to race playing a role in some way was, you know, black quarterbacks not being afforded, you know, the same second and third chance.

is, you know, after, you know, a failure, so to speak, which 2013 and 2014 clearly were. Yeah. But this was a black quarterback with baggage that a lot of people in the league didn't want to touch. And he was, look, he talked about, I mean, he was basically, you know, I got an argument with somebody. Oh, Amy Trask on the former Oakland front office executive on Twitter one time, basically to something RGTree posted, tweeted something to the effect about how the Redskins really screwed this kid up. And I tweeted back to her. I said, at someone who had a front road seat, trust me, he wasn't a victim of a virus in Washington. and he was a carrier.

Yeah. And he was. He wasn't a disease, but he was a carrier. It's definitely worth the full listen. He finger pointed at the DC media. He finger pointed at

Mike Shanahan. He finger pointed at the power struggle between Dan and Mike. He finger pointed towards race. He didn't take any accountability for anything that went wrong in D.C. on his own. Not once. Did I miss it?

I don't think at any time did he say, you know, I've learned. He talked about learning a lot from the experience, but not from mistakes that he made in his experience. I don't think I heard that once. John gave me the opportunity. Yes, he did. Apparently, he says one day he'll write a book and tell everybody what they want to know about what happened in Washington. When you said yes, he did, yes, John gave him, afforded him.

the opportunity. I think he did. Yeah, I do too. John did. I thought John did a good job. Right. You know, Griffin's going to write a book someday and really reveal all the truth. I wonder if there'll be a chapter in there about his honeymoon on Snyder's yacht. Be careful. I've talked about this before. I know. And I have no reason not to talk about it either. there are people that believe that that may have been a salary cap infraction. Well, that's not, I mean, I guess there might be some teammates who might wonder, well, I got married. I didn't get to, you know, that used the owner's yacht for my honeymoon.

I mean, the yacht is the symbolism of the entire problem. Well, he's not the only owner with a yacht. No, but I mean, in this case, Jerry's got a big one. With RG3, the yacht explains everything. Yeah. Because again, he was able to use it for his honeymoon. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't think Corey Lichtensteiger was able to take his vacation on Snyder's yacht.

And you could make the case, you could make the case back in 2011. When Corey Lichtenstiger got hurt, the whole season went to hell in a handbucket. Yeah. Yes, you could. Yes, you could. You know who he never mentioned in the 45 minutes? Was the coach that publicly destroyed him much more than the angry coach, or the coach that didn't want him?

Jay Gruden, I don't think I missed it, wasn't mentioned once. His anger, his resentment is towards Mike Shanahan, towards what happened at the end of 2012 and then in 2013. It's not necessarily what happened in 2014 and 2015 when he ended up becoming ultimately a backup. But in Jay Gruden's first season here, he became so frustrated with Robert that he went public in a story with Albert Breer on NFL.com

that was unprecedented for a coach killing a player publicly. It was unbelievable the things that he said about Griffin in that story. Called him a coddled player, talked about him, you know, needing to stop talking and start playing. There was a level of frustration and anger there that you never hear from a coach. I'll never forget John Thompson, who was still on the air, I think, at the time, when that story came out on 980s saying, you don't do that. Like even if it's true, you don't do that as the coach. You don't publicly, you know, cut somebody off at the knees like Jay did.

But Jay was never referenced in this interview, I don't believe. I don't think so. A couple of other things real quickly, and you'll hear it if you listen to the interview. He talked about whether or not he communicates with any of these people. He said that he's reached out to Mike and Dan and Kyle. He's heard back from Kyle. He wished everybody a happy Father's Day. heard back from Kyle, but that he hadn't heard back from Mike.

He really implied that he doesn't have much of a relationship with Dan either. Did you get that out of it? I did. Yeah, I did as well. I'm kind of surprised at that. I guess there's no more yacht privileges. Mike, I do remember several years ago, John claims that he said it with us, or he said it on a show with me, maybe after.

the interview, that first interview that you and I did, I thought it was on ESPN or NFL network where he said that he had reached out to Robert and had a conversation with him. But that's neither here nor there. Obvious resentment for Mike. And he also talked about Dwayne Haskins and, you know, he's rooting for him. And, you know, they talked briefly after the preseason game and they follow each other on social media. So if Dwayne ever wants to reach out, he can do that.

And then the last thing that he referenced is he went after Chris Cooley and Santana Moss. He talked about how Cooley and Moss were so supportive of him in 2012 and when they were teammates with him and how they, quote, betrayed him. Closed quote, after the fact. Specific to Cooley, he's really referring to Cooley as a media member and those film breakdowns that he did of Robert's games. in 2013 and 2014 in particular. And Cooley was harsh. There were moments I'll never forget the Tampa game in 2014 where Cooley came in to do his, you know,

very popular film breakdown segment. And he said, I could not evaluate anybody on offense because the quarterback play was so god-awful. It was as bad as I've ever seen, and it didn't allow me to evaluate. the other players because they weren't able to give, they weren't given a chance to do their jobs. He really got after RG3 in some of these games on that film breakdown, which he did with a lot of players.

He did not hold back when he thought somebody played poorly. And there were a lot of players that had an issue with Cooley during those years when he was doing, you know, when he was doing film breakdown, even with me. and he was critical of performances. What he told, and I talked to him about this yesterday, and he said, I had a conversation with Robert. I'll never forget it. I told him, if you disagree with me, if you think I'm wrong, I'm right here, and if you recall, Cooley's Studio,

right there next to the, you know, right by the front door at Redskins Park, please come in. I will make time. We can sit down. We can watch the film and you can tell me where I'm wrong. and Griffin never took that opportunity, but he felt very betrayed by Cooley. He felt betrayed by Santana Moss,

who was very critical in the media of Griffin, and he suggested that the reasons that Cooley and Santana Moss were critical of him were their media responsibilities and that this was a way to get an audience. I'm paraphrasing there. But yes, they were the last on his hit list during this. interview. Yeah. I was surprised that he did that. I guess we'll read more about that in his book. You know, this is a guy. Why don't you offer to go straight it for him or help him with it?

You know what? You know, you know, that would be funny, wouldn't it? Yes. That would be funny. the fact, look, I mean, that just goes to say, how does he act in Baltimore? Do they treat him with kid gloves in Baltimore? I don't understand how this guy can do this and then get away with being a teammate in Baltimore. You know? Well, Tommy, here's where you have to just open your mind a little bit.

We both agree that Baltimore is one of the top-flight, top-to-bottom franchises in all of the NFL. quality people from the owner down. I just can't imagine if he were that bad on the field or off it that John Harbaugh would put up with it. He must be totally different. Now maybe it's because he's not starting and he's not playing. I mean, there's got to be a little bit of humbling through that process, don't you think?

Yes, I would think so. Maybe that's the case. I just, you know, maybe, I mean, when he talks about Washington, he just reverts back to the way he was in Washington. He must be a totally different guy. All right, what else? That's it. We went longer today.

All right, I'll talk to you next week. Thanks. Have a good weekend. All right, we're done for the day. I will, I promise, be back with a podcast tomorrow. in the world.