The Kevin Sheehan Show - Del Rio's Accusation Answered

Episode Date: May 17, 2022

Kevin and Thom discussed making an attempt to socialize with each other in the future. There was an answer to Jack Del Rio's reference a week ago about a lack of commitment from the "back end" last year. More Commanders' discussion along with some NBA, Caps, Sugar Ray Leonard, and a tv series recommendation.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here today. This is a review written by podcast listener 34-567 via Apple Podcasts.

I've followed Kevin and his various collaborators for years. I prefer the word colleague. Despite leaving the DMV area years ago, I've kept connected to Washington sports, mostly on the strength of all of their analysis, descriptions, and humor. Kevin likes the teams that I like, especially Maryland basketball. Best content is with Cooley and Tommy. The interesting thing is how Kevin forms relationships around the work and always keeps it entertaining and free-flowing. Well, thank you.

That's very nice. But the nicest review we got was titled Scott Hockey Lynn Terrific. Thanks for the hockey deep dive with guest, Scott Lynn, an excellent resource. That was from Alan via Apple podcast. Don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. Tommy, we are doing very well on the charts. You know, I got an email sent to me the other night. I don't follow this stuff as much as maybe some others who do podcasts.

Follow it. but we were in the top 10 of all football podcasts in America with only the national, big national shows like Barstool in some of the ESPN shows ahead of us, but many of those behind us. And I was told that this is essentially the area between, you know, the top 10 and the top 30, depending on the events, where we reside most of the time, which is, you know, which is nice. It's a combination of how many people listen to the podcast with, as I mentioned yesterday, all of those nice ratings and reviews. So keep them coming. Well, look, it's not surprising. This is why we get all the accolades from the DC Sports Podcast Association.

You just reminded me. I got to reach out to him. We've got to have him on the show. Brian, if you're listening, I know that I sent you a DM. We are going to have you on the show. I promise you. In fact, Tommy. Look, you don't want to piss this guy off.

No. He's the head of a big-time association. Yes. You know, and it's a nonprofit too, so, you know, I don't think he's getting paid a lot of money to run this thing. So we want to be really good to him. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Because he recognizes the best out there, and, you know, we should recognize him for it. We will do that. In fact, I'm putting it on my, into my phone right now to remind myself to reach out to Brian to come on one of the shows next week. Okay, if I don't put it in my phone now, I might forget. So next Tuesday, I mean, there's nothing going on in sports right now, really. I'm into the NBA playoffs. I know you're not. But I'm putting for Tuesday, for Monday, May 23rd, reach out to Brian to have him on Tuesday, May 24th show.

Is that the show that you can't make? Which show can't you make next? Okay, well, then we'll shoot for... Next week, I can't make it because I told you, I'm going to Cooperstown that day. We're taking a friend of ours whose wife passed away not long ago on a trip to the Hall fame. He's a big baseball fan. Are you back on Thursday with me next week?

That's the plan. Okay. So I'm going to put this in here to reach out for Brian to come on with us next Thursday. How about that? Okay. Okay. That'll be fun to have the head of the D.C. Sports Podcast Association on with us.

I wonder what goes in to, you know, the monthly awards. I don't even know who won it. Did we win it again? I think we may have won it for two consecutive months. Yes, we have. We won it again. And I wouldn't be presumptuous to automatically assume he'll come on the podcast that he has time to come on the podcast when you want him to. That's true.

You know, he probably has a busy schedule. Should I give him multiple dates to choose? from? Well, reach out to him, see if he's willing to do it if he doesn't feel a compromise his position as head of the D.C. Sports Podcast Association. And if he's willing, just accommodate what works for him. Okay, very good. I think that's a good idea. I have a show recommendation. I know you want to tell me what you did yesterday. And I also want to thank you for reaching out to me on Sunday morning to tell me that you and Liz were going to be down in Bethesda for the art show, but that you were not going to be able to stick around for dinner or some sort of meetup with Kara and I.

But we'll do that next time. But that was incredible that you remembered that. You don't always remember things like that. Okay. Listen, remember what you want to talk about, okay? Because this is something I want to talk about. Okay, go ahead. We broached, you broached a new area for us the other day.

Okay? This was new ground. And I think most of our listeners would be interested in hearing about this. Okay. Tell me what we're talking about. We have never, ever really socialized in our lives outside of what we do for a living. We socialized outside of the rent, but it's usually you and me with a bunch of people in the business. We've never done dinner with our wives together.

We have not. But I think we've said that before. And we've known each other. And we've known each other, well, since 2009, but we've been working together on and off since 2009. And it's not, it's not, look, I have not invited you to go out to dinner with us, and you have not invited us. It just hasn't happened. Right?

I know. I know that. And I, first of all, I think we have talked about this before, but if we did talk about it before and promise that things were going to change, they haven't changed since the last time we talked about it. No, but that's why I want to talk about this because you, you crossed the line. You bridge the gap. You were the one who reached out to me and said, you know, when you heard I was going to be in Bethesda

on Sunday, give us, you know, text me, and we'll all go out to dinner. And I showed that to Liz, and I said, look at this. He really likes me. He wants to go out. Well, he wants to go out to dinner with us. I think that, first of all, I feel badly about that. And it's not just with you.

you know, you and I have talked a lot about over the years how much we enjoyed the group of people that we worked with, including each other professionally and personally. And we had a special thing at 980 when we were all together. But it was very much a work thing, even though, you know, for work, we socialized, but it was always in a work environment. Now, I will tell you that Scott Lynn and his wife, Sonia, are probably, this is true. They're the two people that Karen and I have probably

been around more than anybody else. We've done dinner with them a couple of times over the years. Scott and I have always really gotten along and enjoyed each other's company and Sonia, you know, you know, and we're of, I mean, Scott's older than I am by a few years. But we've always,

I think that's the only person. Like Andy, I don't think, Andy, we've got, it's always been work-related. And almost with everybody. And we had great, I mean, how many stories can we all share from trips, you know, Super Bowl trips in particular when we were all together for a week at a time? I mean, some of those were really fun weeks and we always look forward to it. But God, you and I, as an example, as a show, we split up the Super Bowl there for the last four or five years when we were doing the show. because they didn't have the budget to send both of us.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't our choice. We would have rather done it together. But I do feel badly about that. I socialize with Mark Stern. Mark and I, you know, got together recently for drinks. We talk, you know, once every few weeks.

We text back and forth all the time. But Mark doesn't have a significant other. He's not married. Tony, I see all the time. and talk to all the time. I mean, we end up talking probably once, you know, a week and we play golf together a bunch. But yeah, and you in particular, you so much. Actually, Cooley and his wife, Maddie, Karen, and I have spent some time together.

But that was kind of more by, it was more spontaneous than planned. But I've always felt like if you and Liz and Karen and I went out, we'd actually have a really good time. Well, then we need to do it. And I'll take on the responsibility of contact you and setting up a time that we can do it. The ball's in your court? I'll take, I'll take, because you initiated it. You started the game.

Okay. I give you credit for that. And you're right. I mean, it's kind of absurd that we've never really done this. It's ridiculous. But you know what? It's very funny about this business. At least, let me just say, the people that I know in this business, you have always said that, you know, you got to a point professionally where you wanted to be a lone ranger. You didn't want to be bothered. You wanted to be on an island. You were going to do your job. Nobody was going to work harder.

But you were, you know, you wanted to be left alone. I think that that was, that was the result of being a boss for six years. Yeah, I understand that. I think that a lot of people in our business are much more comfortable in that role. First of all, let me speak more to the sports talk genre, whether it's radio or podcast. But let's just talk about the radio because that's all of our friends, really. I mean, I worked briefly after college in television with Steve Buchance and Paul Farnsworth and Larry Duvall and Joe Yashiroff and Ernie Bauer. They are still friends of mine, and we had the best time. We were also much younger and single, so we were always going out together.

You know, I mean, I think I've told you these stories before, but when my first job out of Maryland was at Channel 5, at Fox Channel 5, working for Ernie Bauer and Steve Buckhance, but really for Buck, but Ernie oversaw, you know, the whole thing. And it was the best first work experience I could have ever had. working for two people who were secure, who were encouraging, who trusted, who gave you responsibility, allowed you to grow, and we're very good with the overall kind of team aspect, and we're just really generous people. They still are.

Like, I don't think I have ever been out with Steve Buchance, going back to when I was 22 years old, where any of us have ever picked up the tab. Now, we were younger back then, but he just, he was incredibly generous. We had the best time we went out together all the time. I mean, Yashiroff and Farnsworth and Larry Duvall and Kevin Sheehan and and Baker, David Baker, and all the guys that came after me, because I left, you know, after two years. Those guys stayed in that business forever. I obviously went off as you know and got out of this business altogether for a long period of time.

But that was a great work experience. But in the radio thing where everybody's married has families, and I'm talking about, you know, our experience, right? Doc, coach, Brian, Tony, Zabe, Andy, Galdi, you, me, Scott, you know, Scott Jackson, everybody that was a part of that, everybody kind of did their own thing personally. Yeah. And it was like you came in, you did your thing, we had so much fun in that bullpen at work, and when we traveled together or we were at events together, so much fun. But I can't think of anybody really in that group.

Correct me if I'm wrong. that is super close as, you know, husband wife, husband wife, where they spend a lot of their free time together. And yet we all get along so well. That tends to be a younger person's thing. But we aren't, but we haven't for the last 10 years been in that younger person's thing. Oh, you're saying younger people get together more often. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. I agree. I think you're more inclined to do that. And I think also there is a point in your life. You know, you get this, I think everybody goes through this to a certain extent, right? You have, you know, the friends that you grew up with and went to high school with that you're super tight with and the people at college that you met that you're super tight with. And there are certain relationships for me that I've kept lifelong that are close. But many more, I'm not close with anymore.

And they were kind of replaced by people. who ended up being in my life on a daily basis, you know, parents who had kids that were friends with my kids at school, you know, so they became people that you ended up socializing with much more. I think that happens to everybody. Now, there's always been a couple of old friends. I mean, Scott and I have been, you know, super close friends for 35 years, you know, something like that. But he also lived away for 25 years. You know, he lived in Orlando for a bunch of time and lived in Connecticut for a bunch of time. So I think that happens. And then you can end up socializing with a lot of the people that you work with. But I think it has to do more often as you get older

with who your kids are friends with. And then it's their parents that you end up developing relationships with and friendships with and spending a lot of your free time with. I think that's true. It's been true for me for Kara and I over the years. I think you're right. I think you're right. But I've met, I've met Tara a couple of times. Right. Actually, we did all get together once at one of our radio station Christmas party. I think we did a couple of times, didn't we? At Bertucci's. At Bertucci's, that's right.

The pizza place, like out in Rockville. Boy, they really spent big on the holiday parties, didn't they? Remember? They really did. They didn't spare any change with that. Now, we had a couple of holiday parties that were, decent. I know we had a holiday. I think we had a couple of Christmas, either dinners or lunches at either Ruth Chris or Morton's. I think we did it at Morton's a couple of times, didn't we?

Oh, yeah, I know we did it at Ruth Chris a couple of times. But we did a couple of times at Bertucci's. Oh, my God. The Bertucci's one. That's when all four of us were kind of together. But we were together with a group of about 20 people. The Bertucci. Tommy, that is, I mean, that's 10 to 12 years ago. Every bit of it. The, the, I remember specifically with the Bertucci's thing. I remember my wife's like, seriously, this is your holiday Christmas party?

And I'm like, well, last year it was at Morton's. And she said, yeah, but it was just for employees, not spouses. and I think that's true. But the Bertucci's one, I remember saying to, I don't know who it was at the time, whoever our CEO was. I said, you know, to be honest with you,

it probably would have been better just to have something catered at work for a Friday lunch for everybody with, you know, with an open bar if you had the ability to do that, that kind of thing. A, it would have been, you know, probably the equal

and expense but that was trash I mean that was that's just not what you do they didn't spend anything on that that was a trade that was a lot of them were trades yeah that was a trade I don't think they really spent

any money on it and then I met Tara at the Carly Simon appearance right I remember that when I ran into her Yeah. You've met her more than just those two times, haven't you? That's it.

That's it. That's so funny. It's true. How many times have you met Liz? Well, I want to say at a couple of holiday parties. Maybe one holiday party. And it would have been the Bertu Kish's one? We'll see.

That's part of your problem. And you know what? She's the better half based on the time that I met her, the much better half. I mean, I think I would have assumed that anyway. just for putting up with you for this long. All right, so the net of it is we're going to do this. I think you met her when you dropped me off from the snowstorm at my house in Columbia. I think you met her for you there too.

I do remember that. That was, you know, that's one of our favorite all-time stories. Tommy, they wouldn't even pay for your cab ride back. Well, I mean, this business, I mean, there's a lot of pluses to it. And there have been some doozies that we've worked for in the past. That's for sure. There was nothing, and you were not on this trip. There was nothing worse than when they put us up for one of the Phoenix Super Bowls,

one of the Phoenix Super Bowls, they put us up in a motel a literal motel that was littered with crack dealers in the parking lot. And I remember pulling up to it in a rental car. I think I was with Cooley. And I just said, we both looked at each other immediately and said, no, this is not happening. And we booked a hotel downtown near Radio Row, which by the way ended up being maybe like $29 a night more.

and then everybody followed suit. Doc did, you know, Zabe and Andy, or Zab and Galdi did. I forget who exactly was on that trip. But it's funny because, you know, when you send, and I remember this from, you know, being in a company where I made a lot of the decisions with respect to expense. But when you send people away, it's one thing to really try to cheap it out on a one-night trip.

like, okay, you might have to stay at a holiday and express or, you know, something that's cheap and close. It's one night. But when you send people away for a week, and by the way, it's kind of a team building thing as well, which you should recognize as a manager, that your people are getting away. They're going to be able to hang out socially and have a good time, and it'll provide, you know, great stories, by the way, for the air the next day, which it always did. You put them up somewhere where you're working for a week. And by the way, we worked on those trips. I mean, look, it's all relative. We've never been digging ditches in this business.

I understand that very much. But, you know, you always had, I mean, you were doing lots of radio hits when you weren't doing stuff on the air. You were appearing on other shows. You know, you had a lot of stuff to go back and record for the next day. It was, they could be long days. When you do that, you know, this is for any of you managers out there that send some of your employees. When you send people away for multiple days, those accommodations have to be, you know, accommodations where you can be productive, you know, period.

And our people never got that, never got that. That was probably a Carmean production on what was truly like the Bates Motel. and it wasn't even in Phoenix. I mean, it was fucking halfway to Tucson. Well, the thing is, how can you say that's worse? Because you didn't stay there. The worst was Dallas.

Well, I was with you in Dallas. Set aside. The weather. The weather. I mean, that hotel was terrible. That hotel had a cop in the lobby all the time. Tommy, our doors went right. to the outside. It was a motel.

Yes. Yes. When we arrived there, though, I know we've told this story so many times, but not everybody's heard it. And those that have heard it, I'm sure we'll be fine with airing it again. This was the Green Bay Pittsburgh Super Bowl, which was

in Dallas, you know, shortly after Jerry World opened. It was their first Super Bowl down there. And I want to say that's 2009, 2010, somewhere around there. We arrive on the Sunday night. We always flew on Sunday to get into the city so that we could, you know, do our shows. We would do shows there Monday through Friday. We would all do our shows from Radio Row, which

was the area in which all sports talk radio shows across the country would do their radio shows. We arrived there, I don't know, it was 55 degrees. It was kind of lovely on a Sunday evening, and we were already, you were already like, what is this place? And I'm like, what are we doing here? First of all, we were like 35 minutes away from Radio Row and we were on a highway. And then we went to sleep. And at like three in the morning, I just heard like the pinging noise of sleet and woke up the next morning. And this is no exaggeration because I think Dallas claims it as one of the worst ice storms in their city's history. And it was at the beginning of Super Bowl week.

And I could barely get the door open because it opened to the outside. And there was an inch and a half of ice, and the temperature had dropped to like 15 degrees. And it did not get above 25 the entire week. And Dallas has no snow removal equipment in that city. And it was a nightmare for us. And no road treatment. Nothing. They didn't have salt.

They had sand. There was all that sand. Everything got really brown. I mean, Texas is brown in spots anyway when it's nice weather. And the travel to get to Radio Roast, somehow we made it every day. I don't know how we made it those first few days when the roads really were, for the most part, impassable. But you know me. I like driving in bad weather.

Yes. We were relying on. you're driving. So we managed to get there. I don't know how I didn't fall and break my neck. Well, because I dropped you off at the front door every day. But still, but still, I had to walk from the car to the

there was no, there was no place where there wasn't covered with ice. No, it was, it was a shit show that entire week, and it really impacted Dallas economically because, you know, the Super Bowl, Super Bowl week is such a huge economic

you know, boom to a city and nothing was opened. I mean, nothing was open for those first three or four days. But I do remember, you know, it's funny because it's reminding me of the graduation of Penn State last weekend where I think I told you it was like 44 degrees and raining sideways the entire weekend. And the graduation was in Bryce Jordan Arena and we pulled up and, you know, I told my wife, hey, drop me off at the front and I'll get us some seats. And she laughed and said, yeah, no, that's not. And of course, I didn't mean it. I was just joking.

But I dropped her off in front, and then the only parking was out in the hinterlands, and I did not have an umbrella. Actually, I don't even own an umbrella. I don't know why I don't own umbrella. I just, for whatever reason, I think umbrellas are weird. And I don't own an umbrella guy either. And so I... My wife has ten of them, and I don't use any of them.

It's just water for crying out a while. But I was soaked. when I got into the arena because it was a downpour and it was cold and it was a half mile, maybe a half miles an exaggeration. No, it's probably not. It was about a half mile walk from where I parked and getting into the arena. And by the way, then they had security that you had to go through so there were lines. But when I, when we were in Dallas, because you, you know, you were struggling with the knees and stuff.

I dropped you off in front and then had to go park out in that lot. And it really was a matter of just trying to survive the walk from the parking lot into the, into the wherever, I don't even remember where Radio Row was. It was downtown Dallas. It wasn't anywhere near where the stadium was. It was, but anyway, whatever. The hotel, that's when I went on the air the next morning. Oh, yeah, prisoner.

And I said, now I know what it feels like to do time. Exactly. That's what the hotel room was like. And I, you know, it's like, who was our program director at the time? Was it Chuck? It was probably Chuck. He booked us there. Yeah, he did.

I mean, but he did it with, you know, sort of direction from the CEO. No, no, no, no, no. You think it was Chuck? No, no, no, no, no. Chuck liked to cheap out. Oh, my God. That was, that was horrendous. us. I'm telling you, though, I would have paid to stay there compared to where they booked us in Phoenix.

It was horrible. Now, one year, well, this was the first year of Red Zebra. I was doing the show with Rigo, and there was a Super Bowl out in Phoenix, and we stayed in Scottsdale. It was Gary and I and Rigo stayed in Scottsdale, and Gary Braun, and it was lovely, the accommodations. Anyway, The ball's in your court, and we're going to do it, and we're not going to be having a conversation two years from now saying, remember when we had that conversation about how we were going to get together, because life's too short. I did want to just mention real quickly the recommendation that I have, and that is a show called Gaslit. Are you familiar with it or not? Is it the one about Martha Mitchell? Yes, Martha and John Mitchell.

I haven't seen it yet. So I only watched the first episode, and I started to watch the second episode last. night and then I fell asleep because it was late. I can't wait to get back to it because this is an area, Tommy, that I just loved in school, Watergate. And I mentioned this on radio this morning. You know, there are certain teachers that everybody's had that you remember. There are several teachers I remember. But one teacher in particular became kind of a friend to all of us. Her name was Wendy Egan, Miss Egan, in high school. She was a history teacher. And she was teaching at Whitman up in just a few years ago, I think.

But anyway, she was young and she was just kind of fun and with it. And we did a Watergate kind of quarter and I loved it. And I was hooked on it. I read, you know, I read a lot of the Watergate books. I read Ends of Power, the Hallman book. I read the Dean book. And so Kara told me about this. I didn't know anything about this show.

It's on Stars. and I watched the first episode last night. Now, you may have a better sense as to whether or not Martha Mitchell is kind of being made into a caricature. Also, John Mitchell as well, the Attorney General, Nixon's Attorney General, and then, by the way, the head of the committee to reelect. But John Mitchell is played by Sean Penn and the makeup job to get him to look like John Mitchell

at John Mitchell's age during that time, and he was an older man, is incredible. And Julia Roberts plays Martha Mitchell. And the first episode is already great. And the second episode is going to be the actual break-in, which was Tommy. We're coming up on the 50-year anniversary of June 17th, 1972. The break-in at Watergate, which started this whole,

thing led by by the way and I was telling my wife this last night when we were watching it. Getting back to radio. You know, Gordon Liddy, one of the burglars and kind of the mastermind behind all of this. But Gordon Liddy did a syndicated radio show for many years. And when we were over in Silver Spring, you remember the old hovel in Silver Spring where we did the shows. You and I weren't doing a show together at the time, but you were doing Andy and Steve's show a lot. Right. That's where Gordon Liddy, G. Gordon Liddy did his radio show. And it was an early morning radio show.

Well, at the time, I was doing early morning updates. I wasn't a show host at that point. And I was getting in at 5.15 a.m. and doing the morning updates during Mike and Mike. And then eventually during Tony's show, when Tony quickly came back to radio right after I started that job. But it would be me and Gordon Liddy and his two female producers. Diane was one of them.

I forget the name of the other woman. But we'd essentially all be walking into the building at the same time because I was the only person there from 980 until the producer and board ops showed up, usually at about three minutes to six, where the first update was. And I had so many conversations with him in the kitchen of that old hovel. One of the memories,

because I was a big, and I still am, like I remember a lot about Watergate and remember, and remember a lot of the figures of Watergate. And I know you do too, which is why I think you'll probably enjoy this. I'm enjoying it so far through one episode. But the thing that all of us will never forget is that G. Gordon Liddy's producers, it was two women, and one of them again, her name was Diane. One of their responsibilities every morning was to microwave up bacon for Gordon Liddy.

And look, there's nothing better than bacon. It's one of my favorite things. And the smell of bacon is awesome. But every morning that bacon was microwaved in every single morning by around 6.15 a.m., the entire building was smelled of bacon, which wasn't a terrible thing, but after a while it was like, oh, my God, microwavable bacon. Maybe they'll go out and get some real bacon. but that was something he required every morning on the show. He could not have been friendlier, could not have been friendlier in those mornings

and conversations. And I remember a couple of times him saying, man, you really do remember some of this stuff. Well, who doesn't really Watergate if you're of a certain age? I mean, I can remember specifically where, you know, as a very young kid, I watched those Watergate hearings during the summer of 74 that led to the resignation. I remember exactly where I was when he resigned. I was at The Chases, a family with kids in the neighborhood, and the family had it on in their living room,

and we were all kids sitting there watching it. It really was an incredible time. It really was. It was amazing. You know, it's not something that I feel confident about that the country could could basically deal with it today. Which part of it?

You just mean... The idea of the president resigning like that. Yeah. Like he did two years later. I mean, it really was such an orderly I mean...

Oh, I see what you're saying. Just the fact that it went via the way it should go. Yes. Yes. It went to be the way that You know, we think this country was set up. And, I mean, I mean, all the way to, like I always point out, we had a president and a vice president, neither of whom were elected for a brief period. So, I mean, you know, and there was no coup. There was, I mean, I'm just talking about, like, in other countries.

And you're talking about Gerald Ford and Rockefeller. And Nelson Rockefeller. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty stunning when you think about it. Yep. It is, but that's part of the I don't get the Stars Network

So I'll have to wait till it's available Some other way It's not on your What kind of cable package do you have? That's right You don't use all the premiums Because I get I mean I don't spend $500 a month on cable like you do

I don't spend $500 a month on cable What do you think my cable bill is At least $250 bucks It is it is too It's just slightly more than two $250. And you know what? I think it's too much.

Okay. Well, mine's not that much. It's too much. Okay. Because we have TVs that don't even get used. I get Netflix. I get Netflix. I get Prime. I get Hulu.

So I don't need to spend money on stars and showtime and all that stuff. You'll, whenever you get access to it, I think you'll enjoy it. All right. Let's get to some other conversation, maybe dealing with sports. Ben Standig wrote something. after he was on with us, he updated his story that I want to share with everybody. I also want to talk a little bit about the NBA playoffs and the conference finals,

which start tonight in a way that I think Tommy will perhaps enjoy the conversation. Hopefully. We'll get to all of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. A recommendation, listen to Sam Monson on the show this morning on the radio show. You can get it at the team 980.com. Sam is the lead analyst and one of the originals at Pro Football Focus, and he analyzed the off-season for Pro Football Focus for all 32 teams, and I think you'll be interested in the conversation about Washington and another NFC East team, which he wrote about,

which he was very, very bullish on their off-season, as was I, and that would be the Philadelphia Eagles. Anyway, last week, Tommy, And I forget if we talked about this together or if I talked about it with somebody else or even by myself. Jack Del Rio in an interview with Julie Donaldson mentioned that during last year's offseason activities, that he was disappointed with some of the back-end players on defense not being present for some of the off-season activities. The quote was as follows. The quote was, this time of year, when you slow it down, explain exactly where you belong and how it all ties together is important.

How we need to communicate on certain adjustments, certain formations, certain shifts, motions. That is critical right now. I was disappointed last year when we did not have full participation. I thought it contributed to us having a poor year in the back end. end because it's all about the back end has to play well for you to play great defense. You've got to understand where you belong and be there and just make your plays. Don't look back, make excuses. I feel much better about what we're doing now.

We're putting in the focus, the energy, the effort, and the commitment. Those things pay off. There's no shortcut to success. Closed quote. That was your defensive coordinator, Jack Del Rio, a couple of weeks ago, maybe like a week and a half ago with Julie Donaldson on the team's website. Well, we were all asking ourselves the question, and I forget if you and I did this together, we remember the big story being that Chase Young didn't make it to one OTA day.

He was the only player out of the 90 under contract that didn't post for at least one OTA day, and that became a big story during OTAs last year. But none of us remembered ever talking about any other players. on offense or defense. And so Del Rio's comments caught everybody a little bit off guard, including everybody on the beat. And they're like, well, who was he talking about? Because all of those players were there.

I mean, Landon Collins was hurt. He was coming off an Achilles injury. But they were all there. Well, Ben Standig, who, you know, I keep telling everybody, has become one of the best reporters on this football team in town by far, had a source that told him that Del Rio's reference to the back end was not about that period of time, the OTA time. It was about the time before that, which they just went through with some of those workouts that are non-contact. You don't have a helmet on, but they're installing various things. It's what

they call phase two. And Ben wrote, according to a source, the mention that Del Rio made was about last year's Phase two, where there was not full participation from cornerbacks and safeties. So that's what Del Rio was referring to. Phase two, again, walkthroughs, coaches dive into the playbook, but, you know, there's no offense against defense, there's no contact, there's no helmets allowed. And so it was that period of time where Jack Del Rio, now looking back on what was an atrocious, defensive year by almost everybody involved on defense. He says that the commitment in last year's off season from his corners and safeties wasn't good enough. And that's the reason or

excuse however you want to describe it. So there you go. So we should have, we should see better results this year. Yes. I think we should. Okay. I just wanted to know if I got the math right. Everyone's showing up for Phase 2, not showing up last year for Phase 2, was a negative that resulted in this vaunted defense being so bad. Phase 2 now participation, defense will be good. Yeah, and Phase 3 is coming up. The first set of OTAs is next week, and we'll see what kind of participation they get there.

But, you know, in all seriousness, what you just said, I agree with. Like, I think what we have gotten in this off season is we've gotten a bar raised in terms of expectations. We know we've gotten that from Ron Rivera. You know, Rivera talking about this third year, this is the year, you know, essentially implying that they were close because of the four-game winning streak that came at the right time, but then COVID came at the wrong time. And that derailed the season.

Their actions have backed that up. They got, you know, a little bit panicked and desperate. and traded an awful lot in the moment more than they probably had to for Carson Wentz. And then they've got a draft of mostly players with very high floors, but maybe lower ceilings, but these players are expected to contribute right away in need areas. They think that they have a chance to do something special this year. And so you're hearing that a little bit with Del Rio, who never talks during the season, rarely. I mean, he is required to talk once a week.

but you get very little from him. And we already had the retweet from Jack Del Rio last week about somebody who had said, you know, Washington, I forget exactly what he retweeted, but he retweeted a compliment about the team. And, you know, here he is essentially saying last year, you know, we had a reason. Guys weren't committed, but this year we're going to be better. They've raised the expectation bar. And now with the schedule, which includes Jackson, Villain Detroit to open up the season.

What could go wrong? What could go wrong? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, don't you think it's kind of funny not to drive the car off the road, which I do all the time? No, you think it's amazing that, like, in part, they chalk up last year's problems to COVID and the COVID attack,

and they traded for a quarterback who's not immunized? Yeah. That's a little bit ironic, isn't it? Well, I mean, it's not really ironic because there are no rules related to the vaccine or the vaccination for 2020. But you just blame the season on your team going down with COVID and you went out and got your biggest off-season acquisition is not vaccinated. I think that's kind of funny. Yeah. Well, again, you know, if he gets the virus, it's not going to be.

to keep him from playing as it did last year with unvaccinated players who got COVID. Right. Right. Yeah. So it's, look, I, the, the, I was talking to somebody, I'm not going to tell you who I was talking to. It's somebody in the media who's a good friend of mine, and we were talking about just, you know, does anybody want to spend the time putting together the list of things that Ron Rivera has said and then, then eventually contradicted? what he said. I mean, whatever. I mean, we could do that, you know, last year with the, you know, trying to trade for Matt Stafford and then saying this offseason's always been about just

building it slowly and getting the quarterback down the road. You know, right after, you know, right after that, we found out that they had offered, you know, a first and a third or a first and a third and a player for Matt Stafford. You know, this year it was, you know, Gibbs was telling us, you know, Gibbs told me about how important size was in a quarterback. And yet, their first attempt was to trade for 5'11 Russell Wilson. They did get 6'5 inch Carson Wentz, which had him bringing up the size thing, but then they drafted a quarterback that's barely 6-1 or 6 feet in Sam Hal. So you could go down the list.

I mean, look, coaches, you could do that with so many coaches. And a lot of it has to do with, and I always chalk this up for Mike Shanahan, not because I like Mike, but because I really believed this to be true. I think Mike was very, very protective competitively, much more so than we saw with the next coaching staff, you know, Gruden and company. So I think you got a lot of bullshit from Mike along the way to, you know, keep from disclosing anything that could, you know, lose some sort of competitive advantage. And maybe Rivera is that way to a certain degree as well.

But whatever. You know, keeping on the football team, I didn't talk about this yesterday, and I meant to and I never got to it. But Tim Murray, our good friend Tim Murray, sent me, and Aaron did too. Aaron and Tim sent me a text message over the weekend about a guest that they had on their show that they do together with Sean King, the former Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback. It's a show that runs from 10 p.m. to 1 a.m. Eastern time on the Visa Network. They live out in Vegas. They do it from the circus sports book, which apparently, Tommy, is just incredible.

And they had this guy, Chris Andrews, who runs a sports book out in Vegas on the show. And Tim asked this guy, Chris Andrews, about home field advantage and what teams get. And what we know is that over the years, and it's still true, most teams that are at home get a point spread that includes three points, being credited three points for being the home team. And so, you know, if, for example, Dallas were to play Philadelphia, and on a neutral field, Dallas would be a three-point favorite. If they're playing that game at home, they'd be a six-point favorite.

If Philadelphia was playing that game home, it would be pick-em. Dallas, three-point favorite on a neutral field at home, six-point favorite, at Philly, it would be pick-em. Because both of those teams would get three points for being the home team, which is the case with almost every NFL franchise, with the exception of a couple. And one of the couple is Washington. And Tim asked him, how much is FedEx field worth to the points spread? And the answer was, quote, I grudgingly give them one. point for home field advantage, but I'm not sure I should even give them that. They haven't had a home field advantage since they left RFK, closed quote. I think the other home field that doesn't get a

full three points is Jacksonville. I think that's true. There may be another one, but Washington gets one point. Now, this isn't a surprise to any of you reasonable people, which is the much higher percentage of people that listen to this podcast than not. So you all understand why that is. There aren't many fans to begin with at the games. And those that are there, it's usually a split, you know, 50, 50, 60, 40, one way, 40, 60, the other in terms of what percentage of fans are rooting for the opponent versus the home team, the road team versus the home team.

So that's why he even, you know, sort of begrudgingly gives them the one point for being at home. But that could be attributed to the field conditions, the locker rooms, not having to travel, et cetera. But that's where we are with this organization. It could change. Carson Wentz could light it up. And they could start off five and no. But it's not going to change overnight, even if they do win. I agree with that.

there'll be change. That doesn't mean it will change. They're two different things. Yep. You know? I mean, so, but yeah, I mean, it's not a surprise to anybody, except Booker McFarland, who a couple years ago raved about the atmosphere that Bruce Allen brought to FedEx Field. Yeah. That was not good game preparation by him at all.

Yeah. So one more thing about this. So when the schedule came out the other day, all of the lines for a week one were posted by every sports book in America. And Washington opened up as a three and a half point favorite over Jacksonville and quickly went to four and a half. And at three and a half, it was much lower than I thought it would be. In Jacksonville going into next year has the lowest over under win total of any NFL team.

I thought Washington would be at least a six point favorite. even understanding they're not getting a lot of credit for being the home team compared to other NFL teams, but they were only a three and a half point favorite. It went to four and a half, but now after one week, one week after the schedule or not even a week after the schedule came out, Washington's back to being a three and a half point favorite at my bookie at all of these places. It's interesting to me, and it's only May 17th. I understand that. Last year, many of you will recall that the initial opening line for week one

were the chargers, the L.A. Chargers, you know, at FedEx Field. They opened up as like a one and a half point favorite. I remember many of you were surprised at that because the Chargers hadn't been a playoff team the year before, and Washington was, and they nearly beat Tampa, which really wasn't true. But, you know, they were competitive against Tampa. and I said to you, my gut is that there will be a lot of Washington momentum and that they'll go off as a favorite by the time we get to September 9th

or whatever date that was. And sure enough, Washington went off as a two-point favorite by the time we got to game day. Now, this is all contingent on no serious injuries. If Trevor Lawrence breaks his leg in the preseason, Washington's going to be a much bigger favorite. You know, if Carson Wentz, gets injured and Washington's going to be a lower favorite. But I think the three and a half is going to stay right where it is. I think barring injuries when we get to opening day September 11th,

Washington is going to be like a three and a half or a four point favorite somewhere around there. There's not going to be massive move. And I think the reason is, I think the books believe that Jacksonville, and by the way, Detroit as well, their first two opponents, will be improved teams. Detroit may be significantly improved. Jacksonville without Urban Meyer and all of the dysfunction that was going on last year with Urban Meyer and a guy like Doug Peterson who is an offensive mastermind and a quarterback kind of a coach having Trevor Lawrence and the prospect or the possibility that Trevor Lawrence makes this big leap in year two which why would anybody think that's not possible if you watch this dude in college? Like it's very possible. It's very possible.

that Trevor Lawrence, the number one pick from a year ago, breaks out and starts with week one in Washington in kind of a neutral field environment. Even if that's a really good Washington crowd because it's the opener and it's warm weather and they've got a chance to win and Jacksonville won't have any fans in the crowd. They're not going to have fans there. Yeah, not going to be there. But I think the books are telling you with this short line that more of the, more of the, about Jacksonville than Washington. I don't think they think Washington is going to stink, but I think they believe that Jacksonville will be a professional football outfit with the new regime and a quarterback with a lot of

upside. And then Detroit is going to get a lot of credit too early on, because I think the odds makers believe Detroit is improved and that they were coming on strong at the end of last year. So this 2-0 start, you know, right now, I know that's what you want 2-0, and it looks like they should be 2-0, and they'll be favored, more likely than not in both games. But one-in-one might be a decent start to the season when you get to the end of the season, look back and see what Jacksonville and Detroit were during the season. I mean, sometimes you just don't know.

I think I gave this example last week. They played the Rams in Sean McVeigh's first year, Tommy, in the Coliseum in week two, and Washington was favored, and the Rams weren't supposed to be any good. And Washington won the game, but it was very tight. And they won the game late on a long drive and a cousin's touchdown pass. And it turned out the Rams were really good that year. Go ahead. What were you going to say?

I mean, you're right about Jacksonville. It's reasonable to believe, given that we saw this kid play quarterback, at a top level in college, and he was the number one pick, that they'll automatically be better by who's not coaching them anymore, you know, in Urban Meyer. So you do have to take that into account. And who's the coach for Detroit, Dan Campbell? Yeah, Dan Campbell.

Media love him. I mean, he's kind of a darling media guy, and everyone is kind of on the lines to improve significantly under him. So I could see that scenario taking place where one-in-one all of a sudden feels a lot better than it would have before the season started. The Lions had a very strange three-win season last year. They had, and I remember talking about this, you know, maybe on one of those Friday smell test picks, they were very competitive in a start that was like 010 and 1. They didn't get their first win until that last second touchdown pass to beat Minnesota in week, you know, 13 or whatever it was, 14.

But early in that season, I remember they were in a shootout in the opener against San Francisco. I remember they had ball. Look, they should have beaten Baltimore, but Justin Tucker kicked a 66-yard field goal, a record of field goal that should have never been attempted. They lost a close game, I remember, to the Rams. They had an ugly tie against an eventual playoff team in Pittsburgh. And then down the stretch, they beat Minnesota. They blew out the Cardinals, you know, a playoff team. And then in the final game of the year when Green Bay was playing for nothing,

I think they beat Green Bay. But they were a live dog all year long. You did not have to be embarrassed taking Detroit with points last year. I don't know what their overall record. against the number was. I'm going to see if I can find that. But the bottom line is there are a lot of people that believe Detroit could be very improved this season. Very improved. Yeah. But there's a lot of people. I think Washington will be very improved. That's true. Well, they certainly have a better quarterback, even though they're, you know, are question marks around

Carson Wentz and the trade in particular. and, you know, they're better at the skilled position players, especially if they're healthy on offense. They, you know, if they can, look, I've said this a million times already. It's wence in the defense. And really, it's kind of wence in Chey Chung. You know, Chase Young has to, in year three, in his, you know, as Doc would say, in his junior year, he's got to have a continuation of his freshman year.

Because last year it sucked and was a disaster. talking about the injury. If he turns into the dominant player that many people believe he can become, and I do, I think he can. And Carson Wentz is a major upgrade in terms of production on the field and the threat he poses to a defense that Taylor Heineke just didn't or their quarterback since cousins just haven't. Yeah, you can make the case. Washington could be a nine-win team, maybe 10 if everything breaks right.

They're not a Super Bowl contender. Let's not go nuts. There are too many teams, and even in a weakened NFC, but the Rams, the Buccaneers, and the Packers are just much better. I think the Saints and the Cowboys and the Eagles, I think, are better. I think personally, Minnesota is better. In San Francisco, it'll depend on the quarterback situation. But if it ends up being Garoppolo, they're probably better.

Arizona is a question mark. Who knows without Hopkins? the first six games. We saw how much Murray struggled without DeAndre Hopkins when he was out at the end of last year. But yeah, I'm trying to find what Detroit was last year against the number of these. I think it was

good against the point spread last year, even though they were a three and four team. And I can't I don't have access to it. I thought I did. Okay. Do you have anything else on the football team? No, I have nothing else on the football team. Can we finish up?

I've kind of taken a moratorium on the football team for a while. All right. We're going to finish up with some NBA conference championship talk next, right after these message from a few of our sponsors. You want to bet any of the NFL preseason props or any basketball, NBA conference championship stuff? Go to MyBooky at mybooky.orgie.orgie.com. Use my promo code. Kevin, D.C., they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand.

By the way, I found Detroit's number against the spread last year. They were a 3 and 14 team, but they were 11 and 6 against the spread last year. So they were a good bet last year in the NFL. The conference championships start tonight. The Eastern Conference Championship features Miami against Boston. Boston coming off that incredible game six performance by Jason Tatum on Friday. night and the blowout win over the bucks on Sunday. They're actually favored in the series, even though they don't have home court advantage and they're an underdog in game one. And then

tomorrow night, it's Golden State and Dallas. Golden State's a minus 220 favorite for the series and they're minus five in game one. So Tommy, I kind of like Golden State in Boston and I like Golden State to win the title, but I'm not sure any results going to really surprise me. And one of the reasons for that is that, and I did a little bit, I thought this might be true, but I wasn't sure, so I had to go kind of do some work on this. This will be the first time since 2007 that the best player in the NBA or a player that gets debated as the best player in the NBA isn't in the final four. because while Jason Tatum and Luca Donchich and Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler to a lesser extent

are great players, none of them right now is the best player in the NBA. That distinction goes to Janice or Embed or Yokic or if you want to throw Kevin Durant and LeBron into the conversation, you can have at it with them as well. Donchich might end up being the best player in the game, maybe next year, maybe the year after. Same with Jason Tatum. But for the first time since 2007, there's no obvious best player in the game. Like Janus has been the best player of the game. He was in the final four.

Last year they won the title. LeBron, for all of those years, going back to 2011, you know, between Miami and Cleveland. You know, 2010, Kobe was in the final four. 2009 Kobe and LeBron were in the final four. 2008 Kobe was in the final four. In 2007, the best player and the only player on the NBA's all-first NBA team was Tim Duncan, but he finished fourth in the MVP voting. He wasn't the best player in basketball.

When San Antonio played Utah in Cleveland with LeBron's first appearance in the finals, would eventually be the first appearance in the finals. He was young at the time and made second team all NBA. So the question is, does anybody actually think, and I'll ask you, Tommy, do you think that Donchich, Tatum, or Curry, or Butler, is the best player in the NBA? Or you could debate as the best player in the NBA? Or am I right that this is the first time in 15 years that the best player in the league, isn't in the final four?

I think Donchick is right outside the door, knocking, you know, banging on the door, waiting to get in. Butler's my favorite player. Mine too. Timmy Butler's my favorite player. He's like this old school kind of player. But I think your point is right. I think you could argue that, you know, based on the MVP voting alone. I mean, it's kind of hard to believe that the top preempts.

VP candidates not wanted them is in the final four. Right. First time that's happened since 2007. You know, I've said before you've got to have a top five player, a top five player, to win a championship, which is true. And the last time it didn't happen was the 2004 Pistons, who still had Chauncey Billups on the team, Rip Hamilton, Rashid Wallace, Ben Wallace. I still think Rashid Wallace is one of those very underrated.

all-time players, but whatever. We don't have to go down that path right now. But it's a league where if you don't have greatness on your team, true greatness, you just don't have a chance. But this year, you don't have the best player in the game in the final four for the first time. But I do think if Dallas or Boston or Golden State win the title that you can make the case that Curry, Donchich, and or Tatum are a top five player

in the game, which is what you really need. I love Jimmy Butler, too. Jimmy Butler and Kauai Leonard are my two favorite players in the NBA, but he's not a top five player. Kauai is when he's healthy. But Jimmy Butler isn't. But Tatum and Donchich and Curry,

yes, but not the best player in the game. And it just tells you the NBA is all about, all about greatness. You've got to have a great player to even have a chance. So tonight, Tommy, the draft lottery, which precedes the Eastern Conference Finals Game 1, Tommy Shepard will be there for the Wizards. It's a weird year for the draft because it's all college players in the top 10 to 15. There isn't, you know, a slew of international or G-League players that are going to be taken

more likely than not. In the top 10 or 15, you're going to have mostly recognizable college players. But the Wizards, you know, one of these years, maybe they'll land on Janus or Kauai or Donchich, you know, in the draft or Durant. Maybe. Are we done with the NBA? Yeah, we're done with the NBA. Okay. Okay.

Well, let me talk about something that's much more interesting. Okay, to you. And the NBA. To you. Yesterday, I spent the day at a boxing gym. I haven't been in a boxing gym in a long time. And I was at the old school boxing gym. It's run by Buddy Harrison.

If you want an interesting follow, follow Buddy Harrison on Facebook. He's a boxing trainer, gym owner, and a very interesting guy. Where is this place? It's right on the grounds of road. Cross Raceway. Oh, okay. Okay. And Anthony Peterson,

the brother of Lamont Peterson, the former welterweight and junior welterweight champion, is fighting in a card Saturday night, May 28th, at the entertainment and sports arena in D.C. I'm going to be at that fight. So I'm right the story about Anthony Peterson, who is kind of an interesting guy. He has a 38-1 record.

but he's never really fought for a title, and his career got to rail the last three or four years because he puts it up to bad management. He's only fought three or four times in the past five years, but now he's coming back, but it was just cool to be in a boxing gym. I mean, it's just there's no place like it, you know? The sound of the leather hitting the heavy bag, you know, like the grunting going on and the sparring, you know, the bell going off every three minutes

to tell them that the round is over. It's just, it's just a familiar place. And I've been gone too long. So that was how I spent my day. And I'm going to write a story about Anthony. Very interesting guy. His brother Lamont, who's retired now is training Anthony Peterson. And that'll be a good boxing show on Saturday night, May 28th. So if you've ever seen live boxing, I recommend it. I think I've been in a boxing gym, but it was when, and I told you this, when I went to, they weren't really boxing gyms. They were boxing camps for Sugar Ray Leonard. Right.

I don't think I've ever been in a boxing gym. Is D.C. a big boxing gym city, like Detroit and Philly, and other cities have kind of been known for some of their famous gyms? D.C. Wester known than Philly in Detroit. I don't think any city is known for boxing gyms anymore. I don't think as many as there used to be. But I think Philly and Detroit have a better personality and better reputation in D.C. But D.C.'s had some great gyms over the years that have come and gone.

So I just wanted to, it just was a good day for me to be in a boxing gym. Yeah, that's kind of cool. So what's the story coming out of it? Well, you'll have to read the story coming out of it. You know, you just have to read it. You have to read my column next week. Will you cut and paste it and send it to me? You can read my column today in the Washington Times about Dusty Baker

and how he has the highest winning percentage of any manager in franchise history for Washington, including their years in Montreal. He also happens to have the highest winning percentage of any manager in Houston Astros history. Is that true? As well. Yes. So all this guy does is win. So you can read my comment in Washington Times.

Go to Washington Times. Go to Washington Times.com. Click on sports. And Kevin will retweet it later on. so you have a chance to read it as well. And one more thing on boxing. Happy birthday, Sugar Ray Leonard. It's his birthday today, so hold on, let me guess.

Yeah. Let me guess. I have no idea. I'm going to guess, okay, well, I can do the math. 76 Olympics, he was 18 or 19, which means he was born. Just call it 58, so that's 64 years old. I believe you are wrong. I believe he is 66 years old. Okay.

Wow. I bet he still looks like he's 36. Yeah, he's six. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, there's videos of him working out on Facebook. I mean, I don't want to say this, but you don't want to encourage him, but he looks like he could get in the ring tomorrow. When it comes to conditioning and in shape, he looks fabulous, and he is 66.

66 years old. He was born in 1956. The excitement of Sugar Ray Leonard during the 80s was just incredible, especially, well, I mean, nationwide, worldwide, but it was such a source of pride for this area. I referred to him as Washington's, you know, like Washington's boxing franchise. like you had the Redskins in football, you had the Bullets and basketball, you had the Caps and you had Georgetown basketball, and you had Ray Lattern. I didn't ask you. In Georgetown.

I didn't ask you about the Caps going out fourth straight year in the first round. Putting aside your current feeling about Alex Ovechkin, do you think four straight first round exits, somehow take some of the glow of the 2018 Stanley Cup away. I don't know if that was the best way to ask that question. If I was a cast fan, you can't ever take that away. That will always be my place to go to feel comfortable.

So if it were me and I was a cast fan, I'd say, of course, it diminishes some of the glow because there is a feeling, I think, rightfully so, that they've wasted some of the Ovechkin years since then with ridiculous coaching changes. But still, that Stanley Cup is your comfort zone. So I think that still exists. Ben Rabie told me this yesterday, and it really kind of rings true. It's like they've still been, with the exception of

this year where they were the eight seed. They've still been a very good team, and Ovechkin's performance hasn't declined. Remember, the year they won it, people were talking about the window closing. And it was because of Baxter and Ovechkin and some of the aging players. Well, Ovechkin's been great, and they haven't been able to take advantage of that. And I think that's a really interesting point. If, look, this isn't my team. It just isn't in terms of my passions.

So others would need to speak to this. But if this were one of my favorite teams, there's no chance that 2018 wouldn't still ring at the loudest levels for me. Because it was so many years in building up to it through so many painful, painful exits that should have never been. And so it was so satisfying. Look, I'm not a Cap's fan. I was excited for Ovechkin when he yelped and screamed when the final seconds ran off the clock in Vegas in game five. There was something as a sports fan that was really satisfying to see a guy like that kind of take the proverbial monkey and throw it off his back. I love that.

But they have kind of wasted some really good opportunities. This year wasn't one of them because they weren't supposed to be in the series against Florida. after the series was over, it's like they had a legitimate chance to win that series. And they could have won that series and they could have still been playing. But I'm telling you, man, I still look back on Barry Trots. How the hell, after all of those years, this guy ends up winning the Stanley Cup. He's your Stanley Cup winning coach. And you basically say goodbye to him over a couple of nickels.

I don't get that at all. I won't understand it. And maybe it was the right hockey move. Remember, there were a lot of the hockey people saying, well, the guy that got the job, the assistant coach, he was pretty much the exes and his guy anyway. Yeah, reared. Reards. I know.

And I pointed out at the time, there's a big difference between being the assistant and being the head coach, no matter how many exes and owes you did. Well, you know, again, that's why I tell him that fans. I said, just think how much more painful it would be to be a Cats fan without that Stanley Cup at this point. Or without the World Series, if you're a Nats fan at this point. I mean, it's your comfort zone. You know, you've got to be able to fall back on it. Always.

And, you know, in terms of Ovechkin's legacy, there will be people, there will absolutely be people that say that he did not achieve enough in the postseason. that the all-time greatest goal score, which he will become more likely than not within two years or roughly, you know, two years, you know, give or take six months, that if he doesn't win another cup or get to another cup final, that, you know, he kind of underachieved in the postseason. But imagine what that conversation would be if he didn't have 2018. Yeah. You know, because Patrick Ewing doesn't have a 2018 equivalent. Charles Barkley doesn't. All of the great, you know, Malone in Stockton don't.

But all of the greatest in the history of hockey do. So he would have almost been, somebody's going to give me other examples. But in terms of, you know, Gretzky in the 80s, Lemieux in the 90s, you know, Crosby and Ovechkin in the aughts and the teens here in the 21st century, you know, Crosby has a bunch, Lemieux's got a bunch, Gretzky's got a bunch. and Ovechkin needed to get one, or he would have been discussed in a different way. Yeah.

But anyway, okay, that's it for the day. You will be back on Thursday, and then next week we've got some schedule changes. But we'll talk on Thursday. Right. Okay, boss. All right, we're done for the day. I'm back tomorrow.