The Kevin Sheehan Show - Details On The Josh Harris Group/Bid

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

Kevin with two guests on the show today. Howard Gutman jumped on to discuss what he knows about the Josh Harris bid for the Commanders. He's a friend/advisor to Mitchell Rales and has tremendous insight on the bid and the kind of owners they would be if they were to acquire the team. Then it was Maryland Basketball Coach Kevin Willard who gave Kevin big news on the prospect of an annual Maryland-Georgetown game.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The show today presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to WindowNation.com. Window Nation is offering right now an opportunity to get two free windows with every two you purchase.

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Call them at 86690 Nation. Go to windonation.com. Pay nothing until 2025 and enjoy the benefits of better curb appeal for your home and much lower energy bills. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. Opening day today, the Nats game, just getting ready to get started here in a few minutes. More on their opening day result on tomorrow's show. Today's show will be dominated by two interviews, one with Howard Gutman. Most of you who listen to this podcast know Howard Gutman.

He's been on the show many times, ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years, longtime prominent D.C. attorney. But he's on the show today because he is very good friends with Mitchell Rails. Mitchell Rails is part of the Josh Harris bid. He's been an advisor to Mitchell and his brother Stephen Rails. And he is familiar. I guess I could refer to him as an insider to the Josh Harris bid. So Howard Gutman today on the Josh Harris bid and the state.

of the sale of the Washington commanders. He's coming up here shortly. Also on the show today, Kevin Willard, the head basketball coach of the Maryland Terps. He will talk Final Four. He'll talk about his feelings about his first season in College Park. And he will have news related to Maryland and Georgetown playing annually in the future. future. Ed Cooley, the new head coach at Georgetown, is a good friend of Kevin Willard's. They coached against each other in the Big East with Cooley at Providence and Kevin Willard at Seton Hall.

I've already recorded the interview with Kevin Willard, which is why I'm able to say to you right now that there is some big news for you basketball fans, for you Maryland and Georgetown fans, For you DMV sports fans, there's some really good news related to Maryland playing Georgetown in the future on an annual basis. So Kevin Willard at the end of the show today. I wanted to start, though, with just a couple of emails, tweets, messages from Tommy and I yesterday talking about RG3. and RG3 suggesting to Rich Eisen on his podcast that he may be a part of the Josh Harris bid. I'll ask Howard Gutman about that. I will when we have them on.

But Tommy and I both would not necessarily be thrilled with RG3 being a part of any new ownership group. and to me the biggest disappointment would be that the new ownership group didn't know that this would be a controversial at best, a controversial limited partner and or advisor in a Washington commander's new ownership group. From Vince. Vince writes Super Bob back in D.C. as part of ownership? No thank you. By the way, Super Bob. Good call, Vince. That was Tommy's nickname for RG3. Super Bob back in D.C. is part of ownership. No thank you. The new owners, whoever they are, I think it's whomever.

But the new owners, whoever they are, need to know their why, good one, and recognize that this would land like a lead weight, like a turd in a punchbowl. Please, God. No, that's from Vince. From Nance. I'd take Albert Hainsworth back before RG3. No, you wouldn't. I don't think you would.

From Will, I'd be okay with RG3. His best skill is communication. They need promoters, Kevin. As you've said, they need new customers. Griffin's pretty likable if you don't know much about his past. I want to come back to that one from Will. From Garnett. I'm all in for week one if Snyder is gone.

Good one. But if RG3 is involved, I want all of the zone read plays eliminated from the playbook. That's outstanding, Garnett. Good job. And then he finishes it off with hashtag the movement. Hashtag, this is for us, not for him. I don't know. Was that a hashtag of his? This is for us, not for him. I don't remember that one. I remember the movement. I certainly remember No Your Why. The movement was all about Big Bad Mike is gone. We got Jay Gruden in, and he's going to let us do what we want to do. Hey, guys, honestly, and I'll ask Howard this, I don't think he's going to be a part of anything.

He certainly isn't going to be an investor in anything. I mean, he couldn't be a significant enough investor for them to really consider him seriously as an investor. I don't think. I mean, maybe if they took him on as an advisor and said, hey, you know, you got to write a check for, you know, five million bucks. something to be a part of this. I don't know. Maybe I just don't see a new ownership group coming in and, you know, including anybody that would be even, you know, even somewhat controversial. And RG3, that's the nicest way of putting his involvement if he were to have it. I just don't see it happening. I don't. I would think that the new owners, especially if it's the Josh Harris group,

with Mitchell Rails, a local involved, I think they would understand. Or let me amend. I would hope that they would understand. The people who would be unifiers for the fans of now, and the fans they hope to get back, and the fans they hope to attract, and those that would be, again, you know,

at the, let's say it nicely, would be controversial at the least. But back to Will's tweet, where he writes, I'd be okay with RG3. His best skill is communication. They need promoters, Kevin. As you've said, they have a need for new customers. Griffin's pretty likable if you don't know much about his past here. You know what?

I think, you know, Robert Griffin the third, I've said this before. I think he's excellent as a broadcaster. Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that when I watch him, I agree with everything he says. And I do think sometimes he's overly enthusiastic. and can smother some of those around him. I actually think he's much better at calling games as a lead analyst on college football games. I think he's really good at that. Actually, I think he does that better than anything else he does.

But the one thing that's really clear in kind of watching his, you know, broadcasting career at this point, number one, to Will's point, he's an excellent communicator, excellent. He has personality. There's no doubt. And to Will's point, if we didn't hear in this market or as fans of this team, regardless of where you're living, if we didn't have the past that we had with him and you were just a sports fan living somewhere in the country right now other than D.C. And you had no past affiliation or fandom for Washington.

I think you'd look at him and you'd say, likable. dude, smart, quick, very good communicator, lots of personality, pretty good. Now, I'm not saying that everybody loves him, you know, I think on these sets on the Monday night set or, you know, on first take or any of these ESPN shows, you know, I think he can come off as a little bit, first of all, I don't agree with him a lot of the time. But besides that, taking that part out of it, because I would never not consider somebody to be a good broadcaster or good at what they do just because I disagree with them. There are shows, you know, including shows in our market that I'm not a huge fan of,

but I recognize that the person or the people involved, they're pretty good at doing what they're doing, you know, even if it's not my cup of tea. Again, I think he's excellent as a game analyst, and I think he is a phenomenal, you know, communicator. And he is bright. You can tell that he is bright, and you can tell, by the way, obviously, he has some personality, some real personality. And I would certainly think, as Will put it, that there are people out there that really kind of like him a lot, and especially those that don't have any understanding of what he was, you know, as a player here in D.C.

After his rookie season, which was tremendous, of course. We all acknowledge that 2012 was wonderful and exciting, but it was destructive after that. Now, I've always said more so than Tommy that, to me, it was much more Dan to blame than a 23-year-old young person who really did not have at that time a lot of self-awareness. I don't know how much more he has now, but at that time there was not a lot of self-awareness. there was clearly a lot of entitlement and delusion and a lot of other things. But that was Dan's fault. And I've always said that. You know, no matter how insufferable RG3 was here in 2013, 2014, 2015,

Dan allowed that to happen. Dan was the one that ran off Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Matt LaFleur, Sean McVe, no, not Sean McVeigh. But all of, you know, the staff that Mike had assembled and probably would have eventually figured things out with. I mean, imagine them moving forward with, you know, cousins as their quarterback. Would have been a hell of a lot better than it's been, you know, since they've gone. And I've always made this case that RG3 did himself a disservice because I think Mike and Kyle Shanahan would have been phenomenal for RG3. because they were committed to developing him into something more than what he was

into something more than what he was his rookie year. They just didn't think he was ready for that at that point. They wanted to be a competitive team and they wanted to put him on the field. And they warned Dan about that. Mike's told us that several times. They told Dan and Bruce, this is fine, but we're going to have to play football a different way. And it'll be interesting, but that's the only way we can get him on the field right now because he's not ready to be a dropback quarterback, and he's got a long way to go on that front.

But anyway, enough about that. I don't think he's going to be a part of anything, but I will ask Howard Gutman that question at some point coming up. And that's what we're going to get to next. Howard Gutman, who is an advisor to Mitchell Rails and is familiar with the Josh Harris bid. I had him on radio this morning. Some of you may have heard that, but I'm going to ask him some questions that I didn't ask him on radio. And who knows, maybe he'll answer some of these questions differently. Maybe he's learned a bit more since early this morning. Howard Gutman next, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Lots of tweeting, lots of reporting about the sale of our football team over the last couple of days. Who knows what to believe and not believe?

But I think our next guest, Howard Gutman, is going to help us out on that front. Howard, of course, former ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years, long time, prominent DC attorney. Howard's got a radio show that you can listen to if you download the Odyssey app, the same app that my radio show is on. You can also listen to it. if you're in Richmond on WRVA Radio. Howard's a great follow on Twitter at the Howard Gutman. Gutman spelled GUTT M-A-N.

So we've had Howard, obviously, on the show many times in recent years talking about, you know, the latest investigation or the latest lawsuit or the latest committee that's been formed to investigate. That's not why we're having Howard on today. Howard is good friends with Mitchell Rails. Mitchell Rails is part of the Josh Harris bid. Howard has been an attorney and an advisor to Mitchell Rails and his brother Stephen Rails. And Howard knows a little bit about the current sale status, but specifically the Josh Harris-Mitchell Rails-led bid.

So with that, Howard, I will turn the floor over to you. tell everybody about this Josh Harris bid and your friend's part in the bid Mitchell Rails. So thanks. Love to be on Kevin. You know, on the sale, first of all, there are NDAs everywhere, and nobody's violated that I can tell. So even if I really knew the latest inside, I couldn't say that, but nobody really knows because there's only one person who ultimately knows what Dan Snyder will do, and that's Dan Snyder. All we can all do is watch the processes.

On the one hand, the reporting has generally had it, the groups. It's no secret that there's a Josh Harris and the Trails, Magic Johnson Group. Sometimes you see a tweet and you just say, there's nothing behind that one. I wonder where they got it from and it's somewhat leaking. Is it the Snyder's side leaking or is it a third party or is it just someone who wants to press attention? So the one thing I would caution is it's news when it's confirmed, but what we do know is the movement is moved towards settlement. There is a very serious bid by a group that I could not admire more.

The Josh Harris, Mitch Rales, I don't know, Madge Johnson, but the Josh Harris, Mitch Rales, for all the right reasons. And so first let me talk about Mitch Rales, then I can talk about Josh Herald. Harris, who I don't know personally, except he's run in that same community that I've represented many people for a long time, and I know how finally Mitch Rales thinks of him that he's willing to be a partner, which in Mitch's life is a fairly major decision. But so let's look what we would get. First, let's look at Mitch Rales. Mitch Rales went to Whitman High School, as did his brothers, Josh Rales and Stephen Rales. Mitch played football and baseball at Whitman.

And on Sundays, Norman Rails would drive the boys to Friendship Heights, and they would take the bus to RFK for home games. And so, number one, every one of us here hopes that the owner would be someone who understands the history of the Redskins and what it means for our community, and that it's bigger than anyone owner. It wasn't about Edward Bennett Williams or Jack Ken Cook. It was about us, the community. And number one, you get that in Mitch Rales.

But the problem we had was not that Dan Snyder was absentee. He was local. It wasn't that he didn't love the Redskins. He did. It was that at 35 years old, he had made a lot of money on one particular venture was 35 years old, got this club, and thought it was about him, thought it was about him, and that the fact that he was 35 years old and could afford it meant that he could also have input into who our quarterback should be, or he could have input into smarter than Martin

Schottenheimer or smarter than the Shanahan's. So if you combine the fact that Mitch Rails is local and has that love with the fact that there is nobody better in this town, and Stephen and Mitchell Rails, at building organizations you can be proud of. And how can you say that? How can you make such a ridiculous statement is nobody better in town? Well, they built the most successful company in town, and they built, Mitch Rails built, the most successful cultural institution in town.

That makes him two for two. So he founded Danaher with his brother, Stephen, in 1983, I think, was named after a river. they used to fish at. And it has become not only the most successful homegrown company in Washington, D.C., but it's 130 on the Forbes 500, but the most admired.

Harvard Business School teaches Danaher on their modes of operating their processes, their organizational structure. Mitch isn't necessarily the smartest guy on any one technology, but Mitch and Steve understand how you raise, you create a great enterprise, a great business, how you do your work harder. You find the best

and the brightest in that area. You empower them. You give them what they need. You have everyone understanding their role. You have a community spirit. You build a team. They did it with Danerher. They did it with Glenstone. Mitch often has said to me, when we both would sit there kind of bemoaning what happened with our redskins in the last decade, that he had learned from business and he'd learned from Glenstone that if you put the community first, the investment will take care of itself. Glennstone being the art museum that he and his wife, Emily, built in Potomac. Yes, and in five years, I got to you, in five years, the people at MoMA regard,

Glenstone as one of the world great Mon museums that they lend exhibits to and they get exhibits back. But here's the next thing. Glenstone, talking about the community. Glenstone was built with the same organizational discipline. Do your research, find the best people, empower them, and let them do their jobs well. But by then it was founded when Mitch Reddy had been a success. and art was something particularly about the community. So Glenstone has a payroll of over 100 people.

Admission at Glenstone costs zero. Glenstone, you make an appointment, you're supposed to enjoy the art. So certainly there must be something where you're getting them on the hot dogs or the beer or the parking. Well, the gift shop is run at cost. The cafeteria is run at cost. Glennstone is about the profit is in having people enjoy Glenstone and in furthering that community. Mitch is one of those guys who signed that giving pledge, where when he's gone, the causes he believed in is the ones who receive Mitch's money. His kids will never starve, but it's not like he's looking to make the bottom buck.

And then when you take that, you take the organizational discipline, the bill. great institutions, and you put it with something he loved so much, which the rest of us did. But one other thing, everybody listening to today, anyone who listened to Galdia, Grand Danny, or you this morning or anything, Mitch and Steve, his brother, had the same love we all do, which is we want to hear about sports whenever we can in the background and we're driving to work or whenever we can. But Washington, in the 1980s, First of all, sports talk radio didn't exist until someone did it in New York. But they said, well, that could work in New York because they had two football teams and two hockey teams and basketball.

But Washington, they regarded as a small town. We didn't have a baseball team. We didn't. The basketball team played in Baltimore. Mitch and Steve said we love sports and we love our community. So they put their money together, and they founded Sports Talk Radio in Washington. Kylie and the coach and back then

and gave everybody that you know in your world ultimately their jobs but again they brought in the best guys in radio to do it and then they sold it properly when it was shown

A, that it was a concept that worked well and B, it needed to be in bigger hands than they did and so they've already spoken successfully there's no one who would say Mitch Rails

doesn't love Washington. There's no one who would say Mitch Rails isn't the first guy he'd want your team. But he's going to be on the team. The lead guy is Josh Harris. So let's talk about what we know about Josh Harris. First,

he meets that same test. He went to the field school. He wrestled at the field school. He wrestled at the U-PEN. So local guy grew up understanding Washington, understands the sports world. Guarantee you at some point he was listening to

980 the team when it may have been 570 at the time when Mitch and Steve founded it, just like one of us, and then had his passion for sports and for excellence. So we know the numbers speak from themselves. We know how his franchises are doing. He owns the New Jersey Devils. New Jersey Devils are 46, 20, and 8 this year. Our capers are 34, 32, and 8. so 12 games ahead of our capitals.

In basketball, the 76s, remember he got a 76's team that was awful and said, we've got to do this right, we've got to do fundamentals. And so this year, the 76s are 49 and 26. What we, those, we Wizards fans have been trying to beg forever. Don't just continue to be just sub-500. This city is going to have nobody in the playoffs this year. We didn't have the commanders. We don't have the cats likely.

We don't have the wizards likely. And the Nats, oh, my God, I almost went to opening day, but I had too much work. But we might have 55 wins. Take a look at what Josh Harris. He's got the devil's in contention. He's got the 76thous in contention. But the main thing I can say about Josh Harris is Mitch Rale's, is partnered with two people as far as I can tell.

With his brother, Stephen, for whom they've been partners since 1983, they talk to each other several times a day. They don't even have to talk. They can give a glance, and they both know what they're thinking. If you think about brother partnerships, think about the Angelo's family suing each other, and the De Bartowell family I used to represent when they were suing each other, Mitch and Steve have each other's back. When your partners, they are there for it all. And then the even better partnership was in Glenstone with his wife, Emily.

Because anybody who knows Glenstone will tell you they are both dedicated to it. They bring their talents. They are supportive. They are respectful. Mitch is the father of daughters. And so as we both looked at the horror of what was happening in the culture, at the Redskins and the workplace misconduct, And it wasn't laughable, it was shameful.

But that didn't have to be, you know, that was just obvious to us all. And that's so far from a Danor model. That's so far from a Glenstone model. So I think this town could not be lucky if it goes there. Will it go there? Anybody who says, no matter how many tweets you say, anyone says they know finally what Dan Snyder's going to do sitting in Europe, they're smart than you go

it makes sense that it would be sold to this group unless someone's higher I don't see anything but rumors now there is one other group of Steve of Apostolopoulos

and comes from a good family he comes from his father made a lot of money in Canada and he has a couple brothers and they've now want to get active and involved he might be a fabulous guy I reached out in LinkedIn.

He accepted in five minutes. Might be a fabulous guy. I don't know. But a couple of things about that. The confirmation process, this town needs new ownership now. May it will be later than we would have liked, but we need this new ownership now. The Apostolopouloplas family has pretty significant casino holdings in Canada

that will have be a problem and they'll have to divest or they'll have to get waivers or the like. Their money is not known the way Magic Johnson, Matrails, and Josh Harris would be known. Josh Harris is already vetted and confirmed. He's a part owner of the Steelers. You know, lots of people were thinking Matrails when they were trying to find a new owner.

And so that group will sail through the Apollopoulopoulos group, I don't know they're not wonderful people. They might be fabulous. I think the Toronto Aragonath won the Great Cup last year. Maybe they would be a great target. But for our commanders, we need a new ownership group. And I hate to say it, we'd love them to be the kind who took the bus to RFK when they were 10 years old. I didn't take the bus to RFK because my father was going to the games with me.

But still, we get your passion. And a lot, I think, we have heard about Mitchell Rails over the years, including obviously those of us at the radio station. I was not around when they launched Sports Talk Radio. The one person that was was Andy Poland, because Andy was one of their first hires. Benazir was one of their first hires when they launched the station back in May of 92. Your passion for Mitchell Rails is obvious.

And you know, you've shared with us your thoughts on Josh Harris, but specifically that you don't know Josh Harris, but that, you know, Mitch would not go into business with just anybody. And so from your standpoint, the fact that Mitch is in business with him means that Josh Harris would be a terrific owner. I wanted to ask you a couple of things that I didn't ask you on radio. and then some of what I'll ask you will be repetitive for the purposes of, you know, those that didn't hear you on radio with me this morning. But I was, as you were talking about Mitch Rails and sort of comparing him to Dan Snyder,

you know, everything with the Rails brothers is about the community. And everything with Snyder, starting at 34, 35 years old back in 1999, it was all about him. And I think we've all kind of come to understand that that's been a big part of, you know, That's been a major flaw in his ownership. Does Mitch know Dan? I think everybody in this sort of Potomac Bethesda kind of world, no Dan, how well, how closely I can't really speak. I mean, were they at, look, remember one of Dan's problems was Fight Night?

If you remember the allegation about Fight Night? one of Mitch's best friends was Joe Robert, the head of fight night. I used to go to Mitch's suite at Fight Night, so they ran in the same circles. Sometimes when you run in the same circles, you really admire the person you're running next to,

and sometimes you kind of run wider away from them, and I can't really say, but they clearly know each other whether they are, whether they were. I don't think they're at the level of either friends or not friends other than the fact that we all had hoped the Redskins would do better and be run more in a way that we could be more proud of. So a couple of things.

But Mitch would never speak badly of Dan. You don't speak badly of anyone. We would just hope that if Dan has decided to sell, we can all make this community proud. So let's talk a little bit about the Josh Harris bid. Right now, you talked about a lot of. Apostolopolis. You talked about the fact that there's a lot out there, you know, in terms of stories and tweets and everybody has motivations for putting out what they're putting out. And we've talked a lot about that. But right now is your gut. Who's actually submitted a bid?

You can't be sure because there are so many reasons to say exes submit a bid. What is a bid? So the question is whether it's $5 billion, $5.5.5 billion, $6 billion, that ain't easy to raise. So you can say, in two weeks, I suspect I will have $6 billion. And if another group said $5,5,000, it is in the owner's benefit to say, I already have a group who's at $6 billion. You have to go to $6.3. That's not a criticism of Dan. That's just good business. That's how you do the best. And by the way, that's bank. of America. That's what your job is. So then Bank of America kind of relays those kind of things to one group. Someone weeks it to a friendly journalist to put it out there. And the question

is, did they have six or did they have a stalking horse? And in this case, no one, I think, has any true knowledge of who's a stalking horse. Like I heard Mark Cuban today, the second I heard Mark Cuban, I'm like, oh, someone's really stretching. Of course, there is no prayer, I suspect, of that one, but if someone put it out for a reason, and so, look, first of all, they're motivated, but second, even if everyone was telling the truth, let's look at the signing of Taylor Heineke, I mentioned this morning. You can say, it is fair to say, Taylor Heineke got an offer and signed a contract two years of 20, million dollars. I'm sure Sabah and his, you know, aunt are all saying, oh, Taylor's done so well. And other people would say he has an offer of 6.4. If you're at 6.6, you've got the best offer.

They're both true. It just depends on your motivation. Are you trying to boost the next person's signing or you're trying to look like you succeeded? Dan's job right now for his family, for Tanya from self is to get the most money. He's got good bankers. He's doing a hell of a job. But that process, by definition, can't be played out in tweets by AJ or Schaefter or anybody else. Because there's too many people with too many motives to go forward. That's why, A, I don't know anything. I would not know the specifics beyond, you know, my kind of advice would be things like, you've got to do diligence on the following legal suits.

You've got to do diligence on the hill. You have to do working capital and the like, whether it's 55, 5, 7, 5, 8, 5.8, 5.8, 5.9. Is that 5.85, 5.93, and we paid Duran Payne May 23rd? So remember, Durant Payne signed a big contract. He got a signing bonus. A normal business in the NFL would have paid that already. That would have been out of Dan's money and been part of what, you know, buy when you buy the team. You buy a red and the red and paid the Ron Payne with a signing bonus.

Except Dan was smart. He delayed all those expenses to give them on the new owner. Well, is your bid $5.5 million and you'll pay the Ron Payne? Or is it $5.5 billion and you'll pay the Ron Payne? Or is it $5.6 billion and you won't? It's moving shells. Totally. Absolutely. So nobody knows and even if they knew there's apples and oranges. I mean, just to net that out, the numbers that we saw the other day from Schefter, $6 billion and $6 billion, two fully funded offers from Apostolopoulos and from the Josh Harris Group. And I have suggested this the last day and a half, too, that it was my understanding that the Harris Group was not going to offer $6 billion. They didn't even think it was worth what they were offering.

And, you know, what we're saying here is that ultimately there may be a way for it to look like, it's $6 billion for the purposes of Dan, you know, looking good. And at the same time, not be $6 billion actually so that the buyers get what they want. Or even the next step, there really is no actually. Someone's paying around paying. That's money. Right. So there's lots of ways to consider what things are.

Let me just say this. Dan Snyder has hit a grand slam home run in selling the team. No matter what it is, it's going to be a billion dollars more than anybody else. and way more than the numbers should suggest. Right. What are your thoughts on Jeff Bezos? If you need a storking horse, he's a great one. Could he come in tomorrow and say,

I just heard that no one believes I'm in, so now I'm in? I wouldn't put it past him when you're that kind of wealthy. But I do think, I do hope we're further down the line that you've had to really have put your, you know, put your money together and done, shown your interest. But look, if the guy wanted to come in tomorrow and say, here's a check for $7 billion, I don't, I'll take it from here, I don't care who pays Duran Payne. I suspect you can certainly have a team. But that's not been how this has moved forward.

So the only information I have there, let me be absolutely clear is what we all have, which is what we read. But I heard on the Kevin Sheehan show that he suspects it's Josh Harrison. Mitch Rails and I have no reason to disagree. All right. So, you spent a lot of time talking about Mitchell Rails, as we've discussed. Do you think, I mean, we all understand Josh Harris to be the lead on the Harris bid. That's why it's called the Harris bid, meaning that he's going to put the most money down. He's going to own the most shares if he ends up owning this team.

But you've talked so much about Mitchell Rails. do you have a sense that I'm not saying that it would be some sort of co-ownership situation, but that Mitchell Rails would be involved more than your run-of-the-mill minority shareholder? I think Josh Harris understands you put people in your group who have talents. Getting a seat on that bus is not easy. Neither Josh Harris nor Mitch Rails tolerate fools, and they don't need just to find someone who has, you know, $30 million. there are talented, terrific people. Magic Johnson, you know, if you go by reputation of people,

Magic Johnson is a plus to be associated with. He'd be a plus for this community. And so that's why you would want Magic Johnson in. And if you have Magic Johnson in, you'd be a fool not to work with him and let him contribute all he can. And if you've got someone like Mitch who wants to make sure that this community does well, and if the community does well, the investment will take care of himself. So, of course, you'd use them to help on the stadium, on the organization, on getting things out. But Mitch doesn't need a bigger podium than Josh. They all have their podiums already. What they want is a partnership where they are all successful,

and that doesn't mean their bottom line, you know, got the last hot dog nickel in. it means they're running an organization that they can be as proud of is Josh Harris's successes in his career and Mitch Rales' successes with Glenstone and Danher. And presumably as successful as the Lakers when Magic was there, excellence, discipline, something to be proud of, and then the investment will always take care of itself. Do you have any sense of Magic's role beyond being, you know, a limited partner, investor? I think the fact that you heard it means that they realize that there's a lot of, you know, magic's done so much good in various communities. When he opened the movie theaters in black areas, I was like, it's the first time that someone had any business sense to do it. That's doing good while you do well, or doing well while you're doing good. Magic brings a ton that this community needs.

And I said, you know, that just show, I didn't sit there and say, why don't you get Madge Johnson, that shows who Josh Harris and Mitch Rales are. They understand what would add to a meaningful group. Who else do you think would be a part of this? You know, raising this kind of money, as you said, is difficult unless you're Jeff Bezos or the Walmart family. Who else among all of the other limited partners? And I'm assuming that there will be several of them that will help them complete their bid for whatever amount it is. is, is there anybody that we would know of or we've heard of that, you know, a name that may be coming out as part of the group?

So if you just look at Josh Harris' history, he invests with some very talented people. One of them's a former Blackstone or Black Rock. He's got a group that of investors that's brought the success in working as partners in the Devils, in the 76ers in Crystal Palace, in their other acquisitions. The difference here was when you're talking NFL, you're talking at a scale that was bigger than that investment group. And so they looked for someone else local with quality, and that's why Mitch could come in. But Josh Harris on his own has a really terrific investment group of people who have participated

in acquiring these franchises and bringing pride to Philly for the 76ers when they didn't have it. The Devils, yet again, Crystal Pallas, for those who care about European football. But the commanders are that much more special. It's that much more special if you're from Chevy Chase. He went to the field school. And so this is the time when the fan in you is proud, but the businessman and you knows that your success in running a franchise isn't thinking you know who the middle linebacker should be. That's just the fan in you. That stops at the door.

The GM can decide who the middle linebacker should be. RG3 was on the Rich Eisen podcast the other day and suggested that he might be involved in the Harris group. what's your reaction to that? I have no reaction whatsoever. I have no knowledge one way or the other. I have a different sense of Matt Johnson just looking how it came out. That's a little different.

Again, always look at the source and what, but I was a fan of RG3. I have no idea one way or the other. And I would never say to Mitch, who else you're going to put in here? there's an NDA and there's certainly no reason to do it. The other thing is I stayed off the radio the last month because once I realized that someone that I'm close with that I've represented and I'm advisor too is now going in the group

or in the group, I didn't ever give the analysis I did about the problems at the commanders because I was trying to help a personal interest. So it's not till now where there is, because of where it's announced, it's public, it's there, it's there, and I, and NDAs control the information where I can talk about it. But I would never have been on the left hand making Dan Snyder look bad because I had an ulterior motive to try to help a friend get a franchise. That wasn't on the equation. So it's fair to say that they know you're doing this with me today and they're okay with it. Let's just say I would not, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be sitting here saying anything I shouldn't. I wouldn't be saying anything I shouldn't to harm a friend or a friend or a client at all.

But on the other hand, the good news is I don't have any, I couldn't violate an NDA and I don't have any of that kind of information anyway. you know, Alan Spoon is a dear friend of Mitch, and I saw him in the post, and, you know, it's time when we're talking about, let's say, a Canadian group that might be terrific, but come on, this sitting now needs someone confirmed in, who cares and has a track record of success, that sitting on my hands, no one's asking me to talk, but sitting on my hands is, sitting on my hands, is difficult for me as any listener knows. Yes, it is. All right, a couple more for Howard. Number one, what's your guess on the timing? Not as it relates to an announcement that, you know, let's just jump to the conclusion that maybe the Josh Harris bid ends up being the winning bid. But to a closing date with money transferred and starting on that day, Josh Harris and his team now own the Washington commanders. How far away are we from that? So it really depends on what the due diligence shows. It may have been the punitive sale price might be the easy part of this

negotiation because I don't know, I don't think anybody knows now, but someone will need to know. For example, where the government stands on the season ticket holder deposits. Is there a of liability or is it a rounding error? Where do we stand on the three Attorney General cases? Is someone in the organization or the organization potentially getting indicted over the Bank of America loan? You can't buy an organization that's about to get indicted and walk into it. You've got to have that resolved before you go in. Now I have no idea to think you're indicted. I know there's a criminal case. So that due diligence needs to be done. What are the other financial issues that no one really knows

until you get to do the due diligence and hopefully you reach it, the working capital? So how much have they put on, you don't want to surprise that you have a $100 million bill come January that you knew nothing about, but we both know that the league will require the escrows for the guaranteed contracts on January 31st. Was that backloaded this way in expectation of new owners? And so, you know, you add 50 million here and 50 million there, and it starts adding up. So I don't know how long that will take. I do know that if the sale got done now, it would be in everyone's interest to have it approved,

certainly by the next owner's meeting or even by a Zoom meeting by the owners, because the draft is coming up. The free agency budgets are pretty much already there. neither mid-trails or Josh Harris are going to tell anyone who should be the quarterback if it's going to be Jacob for Center you know Sam Hal

Well, no, I know Sam Hal. But is Sam Howell the name starter or is he the first one up to the plate to be the name starting? But you've already said they're not going to be involved in that kind of a decision anyway. That's their way of doing. But you need an owner.

Yeah. You need an owner who's not living in either niece or in the UK. Yeah, not that Nice would be an awful place to live. So the timing is, you know, based on after there's some sort of term sheet or some sort of letter of intent or purchase agreement, there's a period of trying to figure out all of what's out there and how much that's going to cost and how much liability the new ownership's going to have. They've got to get the three quarters vote. That seems easy if it's the Harris Group. They could do that by Zoom, I would imagine.

But maybe, you know, if there's an announcement here sooner rather than later, maybe we're a month after that, two months max, something like that? That sounds fair to me, depending on what we don't know. If the due diligence turns something up that's, whoa. Like, for example, none of us knew until we just happened to find out that there was a season ticker in the holder deposit problem. Yeah. But if you start talking to CFOs, you would hope to do your due diligence. Right now, a purchaser won't have access to that level. They won't have access to interview the capologist.

They won't have access to the CFO to know those concerns. But once you sign the contract, that will come with it in doing your due diligence, then you've got to find out what problems there might be. Do you think the league will give them access to marry Joe White as part of due diligence? Let me say, I think if you were an advisor to them, you would recommend that they speak to both Beth and Mary Jo. Right. So what do you think about the Mary Joe White investigation, the report last week that Snyder's declined to talk to Mary Joe White? Goodell coming out earlier this week to say we do intend on making the results of the Mary Joe White investigation public and being transparent.

about it. Where do you think that is and where do you think it goes? You know, none of us really understand what that is, because if you remember, we had the entire Beth Wilkinson one, which resulted in them saying, this is the worst toxic workplace they've ever seen. Here's the fine. The fine is they got to redirect a charitable contribution this year, and they thought they moved on. Then there was the Tiffany Johnson one allegation, and they said that's what Mary Jo is going to look at. That can't take that long. So we don't know if that covers everything of Beth Wilkinson. We don't know if that covers the Bank of America, which is, you know, Fred Smith and White

Char and whether the bank lent money that they shouldn't have lent and who caused the bank to do it. We have no idea the scope of it. But it's smart for Dan's, look, if I'm taking $5 to $6 billion and going to Europe and moving all my life, the last thing. I'm going to do is give more fodder for them to dump on me. You know, she can watch the door close, and they have no basis to force him to do anything if he's not in the league.

If he's in the league, he's obligated to cooperate. So I suspect everyone from Goodell and Pash and Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft are hoping the sale is done. Snyder is out. That's an excuse for Mary Jo not to have gotten to Dan Snyder. and then by its nature, all of the conclusions are a little tentative unless they're not. Certainly, if you don't hear from Dan Snyder, we know what Dan Snyder says about the Tiffany Johnson allegation, which is it didn't happen.

Beyond that, there won't be any real questioning, and so that might disintegrate by Dan leaving. On the other hand, that's a great weapon for Dan not to pull one of these, oh, I really, wanted six, three, I only got 5-7 or whatever it is, now I'm not selling until I get the right price. Because if that's true, then let's move forward with Mary Jo, or we can sanction you for not.

So it's a club to get this done. Mary Jo White's investigation is a club to get the sale done. Once the sale is done, it might kind of disintegrate because then people really care about the stadium. They care about the middle linebacker. They care about what's going to happen in the GM's office or a coach-centric system or not.

And that's all to be determined by some very terrific people running businesses, cultural, and as we know from Josh Harris, sports, three sports, at least three sports organizations that have been very successful. Right, but still, Roger Goodell's promised transparency. There are, you know, alleged victims. I'm talking specifically about the Mary Jo White investigation, not the Beth Wilkinson investigation. So don't you think he'll be forced to release something? And maybe it is what you sort of described, which is, you know, Mary Joe White was unable to interview a now past owner in this league. Dan Snyder, we can't force him to interview with her anymore because he's not an owner in the league.

And therefore, the conclusions are somewhat vague. Well, certainly on Tiffany Johnson, we can write that together. She says he did. He previously said he didn't. His lawyer said it didn't happen with pushing her in the car. We have reason to think that she had told friends right at the time. It was pretty graphic. But we didn't get to follow up with Dan Snyder, and so we're not certain.

That's Tiffany Johnson. As to the stuff about the Jason Friedman allegations about financial impropriety, That I think the documents will show one way or the other. I'm betting still on the that the allegation that Dan misallocated revenues from pro games that should have been split with the union and split with the other clubs to college football games or concerts. That probably doesn't pan out. It never sounded Dan style. It's really not quite, it wasn't even worth the, if you're going to cheat, cheat big.

but so it probably went nowhere. So I suspect, again, it will be anti-climactic, except it won't be anticlimactic, because hopefully we would have all moved on. And that would be good for Tanya Snyder and for Dan's kids and for Dan. You know, I hope they have a fabulous wife. I hope they continue to root for the commanders.

It's just it wasn't going to work in this town as the owner of this club. Right. We've learned through history, when somebody loses, don't be too harsh in punishment on their way out, because it can create a whole other problem, you know, a decade or a decade and a half later. All right. You know, and that's what, well, very important there.

Josh Harris and Mitchells are not that kind of people in any event. They don't wish ill for Dan. They would like to conclude a business transaction with him where he says they were mentioned, which is what they are. They were, you know, they, they were good partners. Dan's job was to bluff when he needed to because he's trying to get the best price. This is all, these are the rules of the game by very, very wealthy people. And they wish them the best.

I guarantee you without knowing any inside information that no one ever speaks a bad word from this group about Dan afterwards. It's just not just not just style, and there's no reason to do so. I agree with all of that. All right. What do you think the Harris group, if they get the team, will do with the name, the branding, everything associated with what changed on 2222? I think they will do their homework to understand what it means for this organization, whether it changes, whether it doesn't, they will take their personal biases out of the equation, and they will do what they decide is best. for this community, the community writ large. I don't know how many 10 million fans, nationwide fans.

They will take all people's feelings into account, and they will make a business decision where that's defined as what's best for the community, and if you take care of the community, the investment will take care of itself. So it doesn't matter if you ask me, Howard Gutman, or Kevin Sheehan, or, you know, did you want to keep commanders, or should have been the Washington Football Club, as you thought,

or should we go back to Redskins or Shawnee or Redhogs or Redhags? Their personal views don't matter. They are now stewards of the business that's bigger than them. What are the chances that this group comes in and has the ability to, you know, perhaps at least partially, if not significantly, finance the new stadium in D.C.? Well, clearly the first thing they will, One of the first things they'll have to do is figure out the answer to the stadium.

I think they will talk to all through jurisdictions, because they're thorough. They will do their homework. They will try and make the very best decision. If they can, they understand this park, and they understand the importance of RFK to this community, but that's the beginning of the analysis. And believe me, they are better businessmen than either of us, so they will do the analysis fully invest and, you know, make a decision that isn't about the final dollar. It's going to be about what best serves the institution of Washington football in Washington, in Washington in the DMV.

Last one. You and I have talked about this for so long now, several years, a few years anyway. Can you believe we're here? Like sometimes I think over the last few months since the Bank of America announcement that the Snyders were retaining Bank of America to explore this, I think we've gotten so into this that we forget that it's kind of amazing that we're here because we would have never predicted this. You didn't, I didn't a year ago, that we would be here two years ago. We would have never predicted that eventually, that he would actually.

not be the owner anymore, whether it was through removal or through a personal decision to sell or, you know, a highly, you know, influenced decision for him to sell from the rest of the owners. I mean, it's amazing that we're here, right? I agree with you. Let me say something that might not be popular with the listeners, but I believe, which is that's actually a tribute to Dan, because you and I said he will never put anything over his ego of he's not going to sell this club. And I think he actually put Tanya and his kids and said, I think when Tanya got food, I think Dan stepped up and said, you know, maybe there

is something bigger than owning the Washington Redskins. And that's the best move I've seen Dan Snyder do since he bought the club. Thank you for doing this, as always. By the way, you are a Mench. I appreciate it. It's always fun to catch up. up and I'm sure we'll be doing it again soon. All the best, Kevin, really enjoy it. Howard Gutman, everybody. Again, the Howard Gutman on Twitter. All right, up next, if you are a college basketball fan in the area,

if you're just a sports fan in the area, and you're hoping that Maryland and Georgetown eventually start playing each other on the regular, Kevin Willard's got some interesting news related to that. He is my guest next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, if you're looking to bet the final four and don't have a place to do it, I would suggest MyBooky at mybooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They'll allow you, by the way, to do something most books don't allow you to do. And that is to cash in and cash out quickly. All you have to do is wager your deposit amount one time and your eligible. to cash out. MyBooky.ag has every prop bet that you could think of for the final four.

Straight bets right now. San Diego State is a three-point favorite over Florida Atlantic. Yukon up to a five and a half point favorite over Miami. I'll have a smell test tomorrow, 15 and 12 on the tournament, and I will have a pick or two on the show tomorrow. I don't think I like the first game much, but I may like a total and a side tomorrow. So tune in for that. But my bookie.ag promo code Kevin D.C. And they'll take good care of you. And again, it's perfect if you just want to wager on the two final four games and the national championship game. All right. Jumping on with us right now is the head basketball coach at Maryland, Kevin Willard. We've had Kevin on the show, radio show many times on the podcast, I think once or twice as well. We will get coach's thoughts

on the final four. Maryland played Miami this year. And he coached against Danny Hurley. in the Big East when Kevin was at Seton Hall. And we'll get his thoughts on the Georgetown hire. A good friend of his, Ed Cooley, is the new coach at Georgetown. And will Maryland in Georgetown eventually play each other on a more regular basis? We will ask and talk about that with Kevin coming up here shortly. But I wanted to start with this. It was just about a year ago, actually, that you were hired.

You had to cobble together a roster. It wasn't easy. you were coming to a new place, moving with your family to a new place, after many years in the Big East, entering a new league. You had heard a lot about Maryland in College Park. Just tell me, you know, now after the first full year, which was a very successful year, tournament appearance, a win in the tournament. What do you think of us, you know, after your first year at Maryland? What did you think of your first year in College Park? Yeah, it was, you know, it was everything that everyone had told me it was going to be.

And, you know, usually you get a job and you're excited and everyone tells you how great of a job it is, how great the fan base is. And, you know, it doesn't quite live up to expectations. But, you know, being at College Park, being the head coach of the University of Maryland, it was just, it was phenomenal. And I enjoyed every second of it. I thought, you know, coaching the kids that we had was just terrific. The Xenity Center was rocking. So it was a whirlwind, but it was definitely every day. thing that lived up to the hype.

You know, I asked you this very early in the season about what kind of team you were going to have. You weren't sure because you had cobbled this thing together in short order after getting the job here last March. And there was a lot of unknown to you. You were putting a bunch of guys together that hadn't been together. When did you realize that you had a pretty good basketball team that could compete in the Big Ten and then compete and then could compete for an NCAA tournament?

birth? Yeah, I think, I think, you know, by the time end of October, beginning of November, came around, you know, I really enjoyed how well these guys worked together. You know, they put a lot of time and effort in in the summertime, but, you know, sometimes summer workouts can be a little misleading. And I thought the fact that these guys really came together once we really started practice, I thought they played very unselfish together in practice. And when you kind of, I got that feeling like if we can keep improving, getting better on the

offensive end. I love how what they work on the defensive end. I love their attitude. And, you know, most of the times, if you can have a group, have a great attitude, and they work hard. Good things are going to happen. I mean, I don't think you thought going into the season that you would start the year 8 and and 0 and be ranked 13th in the country. So at what point when the season started?

Was there a moment early in the season? that you're like, you know what, we're pretty damn good. Was it the St. Louis or the Miami weekend? Tell me about that early portion of the season when you guys started off Red Hot. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I think, you know, getting off to a good start help. You know, we started with Niagara, Western Carolina, and Binghamton, and I think having three home games to start the season kind of gave us a chance to get through some mistakes early on. and be able to look at film, be able to see them,

but still be at home and gain some confidence. And by the time we got to St. Louis and Miami, you know, we were playing good basketball. And even though Louisville wasn't very good to win on the road by 25 at Louisville, really was where I thought, okay, this is a team that understands what it takes, you know, to not only went home, but when the neutral went on the road. And I just thought, you know, those early games just gave us some, confident. Was there a favorite moment for you during the season? Yeah, I would, you know, it's going to

sound crazy. It was after we got, after we got beat really bad against Michigan, I thought the next two days of practice leading into the Rutgers game, even though we didn't win at Rutgers, these guys came back with the work ethic they came back with after playing so bad at Michigan. That was my favorite moment because it was just like, all right, this team, this team's not giving up. this team understands what we have to do, where we have to get better. And I thought that was the moment for me that was the turning point in season. Leave it up to a coach to tell you that his favorite moment of the season were two practices after getting drilled by 35 in Ann Arbor.

But that's a real coach answer. So was there a surprise more than any other this year? No, I mean, I think, you know, I was, I was thrilled with the development of Julian Reese. I thought, you know, from what people had told me, you know, and then I just, I really just saw a young man blossom into one of the best big guys and forwards and not only in the Big Ten, but in college basketball. I just thought his development, his work ethic, the way he got better as a season progressed, you know, to me was probably the biggest surprise because I really thought he was going to have. a good season, but I thought he ended up having a phenomenal season. All right. So once a season ends, the fan base starts looking towards, you know, next year.

You had a big, big announcement a couple of days ago, and that was keeping Jemir Young. How important was that? Oh, it's, you know, for me, you know, having Jemir back was not only was it great basketball-wise, but I think it was great just because he is such a great ambassador to the program. And being a local kid at the Matha kid, a guy that I really enjoy coaching because he has such a competitive nature about him. He wants to win at the highest level. I just, you know, for me, having him back in next year was phenomenal

because I just enjoyed coaching him so much. So where are you right now in terms of putting? together the team for next year. Maryland fans are familiar with, you know, the recruiting class that you have coming in that's pretty much across the board, kind of a top 15-ish kind of class with Deshaun Harris-Smith and Kaiser and Lamoth and the other big kid from IMG whose name escapes me, the other, the player that you just that you signed up. Yeah. And we know that you're going to be busy in the transfer portal. Where are you right now and kind of putting together that team? And What can you tell me about the team next year at this point?

Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing is, you know, we lost, you know, we lost Hakeem Hart, who was a great young man to graduation, that he's going to go someplace else. So for us, one of the things that we really focused on last year was making sure that the guys we brought in were complementary of the guys that stayed. And, you know, that's kind of what our process is right now, was making sure that we're not duplicating anything on the roster. You know, I have a, you know, we have some guys that didn't play as much this year,

but I really think that they have a bright future and that's going to help us next year. So really we're just being very selective into, you know, who we can help, who we can help these guys with. So one of the things I thought we struggled with a little bit was our athleticism at times. Again, some of the, you know, against Tennessee and obviously Alabama, you know, just wanted to be a little bit more athletic. So, you know, we only have a couple roster spots open. So we're being very selective.

We have a lot of guys that want to come, which is great. But we want to make sure that whoever comes in, it's a good fit for them, and it's a good fit to the guys are still on the roster. One thing on Hakeem Hart, you know, we saw the message, and I read the message that he wrote to, you know, the Maryland fans in the Maryland community. Is that a done deal? Like, I know he's in the transfer portal and he's going to test the NBA waters, but is there any chance that he comes back or is that done?

No, I think that's it's done. And, you know, again, like, you know, guys that have been here for four years. They put their time in and, you know, obviously, Hawk had a very good career here. And I think, you know, trying to test, you know, one of those things about the transfer portal is, you know, you got to test out and you put your name in. But at the same time, you know, schools have to kind of build their roster.

And so we were very, I enjoyed coaching Hakeem. I was sad to see him leave, but at the same time, I'm excited for him. And I'm excited for the guys on the roster that, you know, get to move up. Yeah, that's interesting that you said that, you know, because Darryl Morsell was here for four years, and he was the defensive player of the year in the Big Ten, and he decided to move on and try something new for a fifth year as well. All right. Next year, yeah, it's schedule-wise. Where are you on the schedule at this point?

Is it put together, or are there still things? things you have to do. And what can you tell us about that? No, the schedule is kind of, we're in flux a little bit. Just because we kind of got to wait on the Gavitt games, where we're going for the Gavitt games. We're trying to get something together with Georgetown. I don't think it's going to happen this year. We tried to get it to go this year, but they're kind of locked into a couple things from the previous staff. So I think the Georgetown game will start the year after.

Ed and I really want to get that game on the schedule. You know, we have a preseason tournament in, I think, South Carolina that that was already scheduled for. So we're trying to work around the Gavit games, the preseason schedule, and then also we're at UCLA on December 22nd. So just trying to figure out, trying to maybe get another good home game series started. But for the most part, you know, still way or two early to talk about scheduling. Well, you've just given me, you know, a big part of what I wanted to ask you about. And I think what a lot of Maryland and Georgetown fans have wanted to hear for a while.

So let me just be clear on this. You and Ed Cooley are putting something together starting in 2024, 2025. Now, would that be a Gavitt game commitment or would that be an annual? No, I think what we're trying to do is start an annual game and we'll just flip-flop home and away. It's something that, you know, when Ed got the job and I was excited for him, because I'm a dear, Ed's a very good friend of mine, and I respect him so much as a basketball coach. But it was something that I thought, you know, for this area, this is a phenomenal, not only is it a phenomenal college basketball, NBA basketball, high school basketball, AAU basketball area. It's just a great basketball area in general. I think playing Maryland-Georgetown playing every year would have a, would just be great for the whole area.

Yeah, I mean, you just said, and I was going to follow up on that, but you kind of threw it out there rather nonchalantly. And I'm not saying that you did it on purpose, but this is big news. You know, Ed Cooley was asked about it in his introductory press conference last week, and he said, you know, Kevin and I will talk about it. And if it's good for Georgetown, it'll be something that we'll look into. You're telling me right now that this is something that is definitely going to happen. Maryland and Georgetown are finally after, you know, Kevin, it's literally been since 1979, 1980, since Maryland and Georgetown have played regularly. They didn't play for many, many years following the 1979, 1980 season when Big John and Lefty

played each other at the D.C. Armory and then played in the Sweet 16 that year in Philadelphia, and that was the end of the series for a long period of time. There have been, you know, a couple of tournament matchups. There have been, you know, a couple of regular season matchups per the Gavitt games a few years ago. But this is something that's going to happen, starting in 2024, 2025. One year in College Park, one year at Capital One. Yeah, I mean, that's the plan right now. And, again, it's not guaranteed.

Nothing's guaranteed just because of prior scheduling conflicts. You know, that's something that, again, we tried to do it this year. But it was just, it was impossible with what our schedule was and what their schedule was. Again, the Gavit games, I think they end next year anyway. So that's something like we kind of have to, everyone's kind of waiting. When you have all these ACC, Big Ten, and you have Big Ten, Big Ten, Big Twelve challenges, it eats up a large chunk of your schedule. It's not so easy to schedule when you have these inter-conference games.

So what Ed and I are trying to do is just make sure that dates work, you know, the scheduling is working and it's something that we want. Now, it does it, is it a guarantee 24, 25, no, because the scheduling might not work, but it's something that's going to happen. We're excited about it. I think it's going to be great to the area. It'll be a top five minimum, if not top three, sporting calendar date for this town, and you're 100% right.

This is a basketball town at its core, even though the football team is generated and has garnered the most attention for 50 years. But at its core, it's a basketball town in Maryland and Georgetown playing should have been something that never stopped. We're talking to Kevin Willard. Real quickly, looking ahead to this weekend. First of all, why do you have an opinion on why the Big Ten has struggled in recent years in the NCAA tournament?

Yeah, I have a long list of things. I think we struggle in the NCAA tournament. tournament. It's something that hopefully as Big Ten coaches will get together. They don't do that annually, which I find fascinating that the coaches don't get together with the leadership of the Big Ten and talk about some things that maybe could be tweaked and could be changed to help teams be not so much prepared because I could tell you, going through the Big Ten for the first time, it is the best basketball conference top to

bottom from the coaching aspect of it, from the player aspect of it. There's great coaches, there's great players. And it is a grind and it is a big time conference. And, you know, I think what makes it so unique is that, you know, we played out Nebraska on a Sunday and they were six and nine in conference. And they had a sold-out crowd two hours there before into the game. It's just so hard to win on the road in this conference. But I do have my theories. I'm just not going to make them public. Well, give me the top two on your long list.

No, it's too long a list, Kevin. And again, I want to talk to the other coaches first, and I'd like to talk to whoever's in charge of basketball in the Big Ten and get their thoughts before I air them publicly. That's fair. Can I just give you my number one on the list? Sure. I'd love the one.

I love the game. I think that stylistically, the play, and you talked about the league being a grind, and the possessions per game, the pace of these games, even though these are really good teams, and as you've said and your predecessor said, it's the best scouted league, it's the best coached league, it's the toughest to win on the road. When you get into this neutral court environment, there's a pace that's played that is required over six games, that our league doesn't play for three months? Yeah, I mean, I agree with that a little bit,

but if you just look at the numbers and the tempo numbers, you know, where this league gets a bad rap is, is everyone, you know, Iowa plays fast, Michigan State plays fast, Illinois plays fast, we play fast, Indiana plays fast, where the tempo numbers get a little skewed is on the defensive end. Like, you know, we were the number one team in the country on possession, defensive possession length. So making teams work. And I think that's what this conference gets a little bit of a bad rap,

is that on the defensive end, they are all very high caliber. Now, what I think from a style standpoint is this is the league that plays mostly man-to-man. And when you get into the tournament, you do see more zone, you see a little bit more pressing, you see a little bit more of a lot. a changing defense. And this is a, this is a league that mostly has been built on man and man. I think that's something that's from a style standpoint that has hurt this league. Well, you certainly played a lot of, you know, different defenses and you pressured as well. That's interesting the way you just described it, because I've mentioned that, you know,

when you go to the, you know, possessions per game number, which is an indication of offensive pace anyway, that a lot of the big 10 teams, including yours, are near the bottom of 363 Division 1 teams. But what you said makes sense is that if you are tying up a team for much of the shot clock on the other end, that by definition is going to reduce the number of possessions per game, even if your intent is to play faster. But I think one of the things, that makes a lot of sense to me. And I don't know how seriously I considered that, but that makes total sense. But I do think, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is a league where it is hard against well-coached teams that get back that don't allow you to run unless you get a front court turnover. It's very often difficult off the glass or off of a make to get something in transition against a really well-coached defensive team.

Absolutely. And, you know, it's, Iowa is probably the outlier for us because Fran plays so fast on both ends. Illinois is a little bit like that, Illinois. But I also think that the size of the front court make it very difficult to score and transition. You know, where a lot of times, you know, when you're going back and you've got to deal with Zach Getty and a hundred thick of sense and those guys in the lane and transition, you know, everything kind of gets spread to the outside. where you just can't come in and get an easy layup. So I do think the size of this conference, and I was so impressed with just top to bottom,

the overall length and size in this conference, I think that makes it getting easy baskets in transition very difficult. And so you kind of get pushed to the outside, and then once you get pushed to the outside, now you have to work a little bit. So I do think our style doesn't help us, but I don't think it hurts us nearly as bad as everybody thinks. Okay. Real quickly on the final four, you've coached against Danny Hurley.

You played Miami this year. Let's talk about that matchup. What do you make of Miami and Yukon? Yeah, I just think Isaiah Wong is playing so well right now for Miami. It's almost been fun to just kind of see him put that team on his back. And every time they've needed a bucket, he's been able to go get a bucket. but Danny's team right now, Yukon's playing with his personality.

They're playing with so much confidence. They're playing with so much edge on them on the defensive end. Adama Snogo is an absolute beast inside. And I just think Connecticut's physicality and strength is going to get them not only to the championship game, but I think they have the best chance to win at all. Does Miami guard well enough to win two more or not? well you know with with the way their guards are playing i don't think they really care about

right you know when you have when you have when you have two guys you know isaiah long and nine pack playing the way they're playing it and then and then jordan millers playing phenomenal i mean the game he had the other night uh was just again it's good to see young men step up in in the biggest stages and you know i think isaiah long and those three guys are really doing doing at a high level i just think ucon's athleticism and their size and physicality is going to wear them down. What about the first game? I mean, I don't know what you know about Florida Atlantic or San Diego State or if you know the coaches at all,

but it's a surprise to the nation. How much of a surprise was it to you? Well, I actually got to watch Florida Atlantic quite a bit just from flicking channels. And, you know, they were obviously one of the best teams in the country all year. I think, you know, again, they have, I think it's John L. Davis, their guard, their guard play is just phenomenal right now. And again, I think this time of year, when you have great guard play, I think the other kid's name is Martin. You have really good guard play, and they take care of the ball at a very good level. They get very good shots because the ball's in those guys' hands.

The thing I love about San Diego State is, man, they defy the first. defend in their physical. And I think when you can defend and play physical without fouling, you know, again, a very good Alabama team beats Creighton. I think those guys, with being so old, I think they start, I think they start four seniors and a junior. I just think, you know, their physicality is going to be the first time I think Florida Atlantic sees something like that, especially in the tournament. You know, Kansas State's not very physical. Tennessee is very physical. Yes.

But I was impressed with, you know, the fact that I think Tennessee without their point guard, you know, was a little bit of a different team without Ziegler. So I think it's two great matchups. I like San Diego State and Yukon meeting for the championship. One last question. What did you think of the call in the Creighton game at the end of regulation? Did you think that was a call that should be made or not? You know what?

You know, obviously I was rooting for Creighton. I hate the stage because I... Big East? Yeah, Big East. days, but, you know, I think it's one of those calls that if you haven't been making those calls all games, it's hard to make it then, but it was the right call. It was a foul. It's just, they hadn't made those calls all games. So I think that's where everyone's kind of gotten a little bit upended about it, but I think, you know, it was a foul. And, you know, in the

NCAA tournament, you know, it's the best refs there are. So those guys aren't making too many to big. Yeah, that's, it's, I'm glad you said that because you're agreeing. with me in an argument that I've had with my partner on my podcast, Tom Leverro, all week. And I've said, coaches just want to know how the game's being called. They want consistency. And that had not been called all game where both teams were literally batting, you know, bludgeoning each other to death throughout. And very few fouls were called.

And so it was in, it just was out of sort of the consistency of the way the game had been officiated. And therefore it shouldn't have been called, even though technically it wasn't. as a foul, right? As a coach, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of, and again, at that level, when you're in the elite eight, you're going to have three of the best referees that there are. And I watched the game. I thought the game was fantastically called, believe it or not. Letting them play.

Best refs games. Yep, it was both teams were playing physical, both teams were just being, you know, again, the fact that it was tied and the way crazy. inside the game was, you know, was crazy. It's just one of those calls. It's the right call. And these guys are told to make the call. It doesn't matter what time the game. So it's kind of difficult that it wasn't being called that way all game.

But these guys are told that, you know, when you see a foul, you've got to call a foul. You know, you can't fault the rest. It's just one of those things. It was a foul, and he called it. I don't know how that ended up if you ended up agreeing with me or my partner on that. But I think I think I'm Switzerland. know that one. Yeah, I think you just did a switcheroo. Because I think that, you know, coaches that I've gotten to know really well over the years have said, just be consistent. Because once the game

starts and we know how it's going to be officiated, then we can play accordingly. And that hadn't been called for 39 minutes in 54 seconds. And then it was called at the end. But to the defense of the referee, also, you know, how many one-hand floaters down the lane were there, where their shot. So yeah, they might not have been calling some bumps inside, but, you know, this is a guy that, you know, he beat his man, he's going down the lane. If he doesn't get bumped, he might make the shot. So from a reference, from a standpoint of it, it was a foul. And so, you know, it's the right call. It's just, it's a tough call because it was a physical game all game. Yeah, he beat him. And I do think, and I said this, even though I think it was a foul. I agree with

you. I think it was a foul. I just don't think in the context it should have been called. because it hadn't been called all game. Maybe you're right. If I went back and looked at every floater, maybe there just weren't enough of them. But I do think the shot was affected. You know, I think that he was nudged enough for it to affect the shot. You played college basketball.

I just throw up floaters, you know, in pickup games, in old man pickup games. But I do think that that floater was affected a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why it's the right call. And it's a tough call. You know, if they don't make the call, I'm sure San Diego, San Diego state fans are going crazy saying,

well, how you not make that call? A kid had a wide open 12-footer, and he got bumped off his shot. So it's something I think we, you know, the college game is a very tough game, the ref, unlike the NBA that has like the defense of three seconds, you know, it's much more not as physical. I think for the most part, college basketball roughing is an elite level, especially in those games.

You just helped my partner out again, just kicked my ass again. Because I said if the whistle didn't blow, there wouldn't have been a lot of re-looking at that play had San Diego State lost in overtime. Because I think it was just, in the context of that game, it was so mild compared to what wasn't called throughout. So thanks for helping me out here today. I really appreciate it. No problem.

I ain't I can help you. You're great. The big news, and it's great news, is that it sounds like Maryland and Georgetown finally, as an annual will take place. Thanks for doing this, as always. I appreciate it. No, thanks, Kevin. I appreciate it, man.

Kevin Willard, everybody. That is great news on Georgetown and Maryland, beginning in 2024, 2025. I think Coach Thompson in Heaven is looking down saying, what? I didn't approve of that. But this would be a great thing for basketball fans in the area. And also, we couldn't get into names with respect to the transfer portal.

Kevin can't talk specifically about the names that are interested in Maryland and that they're interested in. But Maryland will be very active in the transfer portal. I think they'll have a big time preseason top 20 kind of a team at the very least when we get to next fall. Also, it is possible by the time you listen to this podcast that Tony Skin, who was on the staff with Kevin Willard this year, It's possible that he will be named George Mason's new head coach, going back to his alma mater, where he was a part of that final four team back in 2006. Thanks to Kevin Willard, thanks to Howard Gutman, back tomorrow.