The Kevin Sheehan Show - Donna, Jan, or Wentz?

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Kevin and Thom ranked Michael Scott's female love interests from "The Office" before answering whether or not Carson Wentz would be a good get for Washington. They talked the latest on Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and took exceptions to ESPN's ranking of the Top 75 NBA players of all time.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify, if you don't mind. Apple in particular, those of you that have been doing it recently, a massive, massive help for us.

I mean, Tommy, I'm going to read some of these recent ratings because they just keep coming in. This is my favorite podcast. I rarely miss a day. best pod for Commanders Football and must listen when Tommy and Cooley are on. That's from RVA Commanders. I found Kevin through the Tony Cornheiser show. This is a great show, wonderful guests, and really enjoy Tommy.

I like his honest take on sports and occasionally life. That's from Durbin, S Durbin. And then recently this is, hold on, I want to. from TX. Terp Tony. As an expat, as an expat D.C. native who's been in Texas for over 20 years, I really enjoy Kelvin's expertise, knowledge of the market, and how he uses his personal market of behind-the-scenes context to bring us honest, on point, unique takes on all the key issues in D.C. sports.

Plus, he and Tom, hold on, this is a good, a lengthy review, are flat out funny, especially when their tongues are firmly in their cheeks. Thanks for taking me home daily. All of you that have been writing these reviews and rating us recently, big, big help. And I'll start reading more and more of these reviews on the show. If that incensed more of you, they'll do it. Yes, I will. You know, the word's getting out there, Kevin.

And, you know, because yesterday, you know, I was a guest for the first time on the great Al Galdi's podcast. Oh, you were. Galdi's, well, you know what I think of, of Al. And I'm so glad because his podcast is doing well, too. He's doing very well with it. But I think, I think he had me on because of the recognition we got from the D.C. Podcast, or Podcast Associated. Did he know about it?

I talked to him last week. I don't know if he knew about it. I didn't bring it up to him because I thought it might be a sore subject. Oh, yeah. But I got to think it's not a coincidence that that news broke, and then all of a sudden I'm on Galdi's podcast, you know? I think they're connected. Can't be coincidental.

Yeah, we also let me just mention, just our discussion last week about doing a live event. I don't know if you've been getting the same feedback, but a lot of people have been reaching out to us and saying that they would have, attend a live event if we did a show live somewhere and did it around kind of a dinner thing. I mean, no less than, you know, 40 or 50 people have reached out to say, count me in if we were to do it. No, whether or not they'd actually go through with it, who knows? I've gotten that too, and I don't know if you got this.

I think you did, but we also got something from an attorney who said his law firm would be one of the sponsors of it. All right. There you go. Okay, let's put this together. I think we should, I mean, we could do it around, do we have to do it around an event? We don't have to.

Like I was thinking, do we do it for like an NFL draft Friday night, you know, the second night of the draft or something like that? Or does anybody care? I think it's even better without an event. I agree. Because people will be, because people will be looking for something great. to do, and this would be something great to do. I actually agree with that.

We shouldn't do it around an event. And, of course, you would never want to do it as part of a golf tournament. That's for sure. Although if you broke out, like, the 1876 wooden putter, that would be awesome. Yeah, the hillbilly putter. The hillbilly putter. God, I remember that. Jesus.

All right. There is, wait, what did you? Wait, what did you tell me you wanted to talk about? You said right before the show, I want to talk about something. Well, I wanted to talk, you know, I was watching the office. Oh, right, right, right. Which I watched the office, you know, pretty much a good percentage of my life. You and me both, yes.

And I'm watching the episode of, you know, when Michael thinks he has, you know, sexual herpes. I think he has herpes because he's got a cold floor, you know. and he goes back and he reaches out to all the women that he's had contact with to try to contact them about it. And it made me think of putting together a list of the hottest women Michael went out with and ranking them. Ooh. Well, Jans, in terms of just flat out hot, it's Jan. No

Yeah it is For me it is You like you like Holly Or Donna you like Donna you like Donna Donna yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah But Donna was such I mean how many episodes in total was Donna on the show I mean maybe four or five

That doesn't matter okay that doesn't matter Fair point I mean she had it all You know she was sultry She didn't need to have surgery to be voluptuous. You know, she had the whole thing going. So Donna, Donna was my favorite. And I put Holly.

Okay. Go ahead. Jan Holly, Donna, Pam's mom, of course. Helene. Helene. And then there's Carol. Of course. Of course.

His real wife, his wife in real life. His real, right, Nancy Walts. Exactly. He's Karel's real life life. Yeah, the scene, the casino night, a scene between Carolyn Jan is brilliant. But who am I forgetting? Who am I forgetting? Okay.

Now, they're sporadic appearances, but I think they need to be included. There's the Benny Hanna Asian waitress. The Asian waitress. They came back for the Christmas party, right? Right. It took, it took her, took his bite. home with her, you know, that there is the glove girl at the blood drive. Oh, remember the blood drive.

Who never shows for the Valentine's Day thing. Yes. There's a blood girl. There's a glove girl. There's the chair model girl. Chair model. Of course, unfortunately she was killed. Now, Ed Truck was decapitated, which of course, you know, prompted the great back and

forth between Dwight and Creed, where Creed goes, you know, you can go on living, you know, for like three hours after you're decapitated. And Dwight says, Dwight says, I think you're thinking of a chicken. And Creed goes, what did I say? And so, that's one of my favorite scenes. Didn't we just talk about Ed Truck? Yes, we did. We talked about Jane Mansfield and her unfortunate demise.

Oh, and by the way, we need to update that. I had a long tweet from somebody who said that the decapitation Jane Mansfield car accident story is not, that's not accurate. It's sort of become this inaccurate legend about her death, but that she was not decapitated in the car accident in the 60s. Right, so you've got chair model. So let's put the head back on Jane Mansfield, but she is buried in Penn Argyle, Pennsylvania. And by the way, it had a gorgeous head. Okay, so chair model. One last, hold on, let me see if I can get it.

With one last one that we're missing? Yes. Give me a hint. It was a business trip. Oh, yeah. course. In, you know, they went to, where'd they go, Calgary, wherever they went or, or Ottawa. Winnipeg. They went to Winnipeg. Yeah, and the woman that he hooks up with was the woman that was in that movie Bridesmaids. Yeah, Concierge Marie. Concierge Marie, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And she,

she wanted him to leave and then he left and then she stuck his shoes outside of the door. and shut the door on him. She did not want him to stay the night, clearly. I've got Donna, Holly, Jan, Carol, Helene, Benny Hanna, Asian waitress, glove girl, chair model girl, and concierge Marine. So, I don't know, I was always and have always been a Jan fan. First of all, that episode that you're talking about when they go to see Jan at her new place of work and she's there with with her daughter Astrid and she's you know she has a line in there I forget what it was exactly but it's something about you know how she's a super mom she's become

a super mom and then she starts singing this song and then she says so Michael you wanted to come and see me to have sort of a, you wanted to revisit why our relationship didn't work. I think Jan actually in the history of the show was criminally underrated, as I will mention Elvin Hayes to be on a list that we'll get to later on in the show. But I think she was just an incredible actor. This show is so well cast, as you and I have talked about in the past, but her chemistry with Michael Scott was as good as any pairing chemistry-wise on that show. And there were so many of them, right?

I mean, Dwight and Michael, Dwight and Jim, Jim and Pam, you know, the different chemistry, you know, pairings. I thought that Michael and Jan were right there at the top of the list. And I would also say that she is the secret weapon in the greatest sitcom episode of all time, which is the dinner party. The dinner party episodes, the greatest sitcom episode that I think I've ever watched, and I think she is so important to that episode. She was brilliant in that episode. I think Jan was really attractive. I always thought Jan was attractive. So I've got Jan one.

Yes, a very attractive woman. I've got Donna 2. I've got Holly 3. I've got, well, just because she's willing and she's got championship attitude, I'll take Concierge Marie 4. Carol 5. I mean, Helene was, well, Helene, as we found out, was, you know, a grandmother, and Michael didn't like that very much.

By the way, who played Helene? Because she's been on a lot of things. Like, she's a very familiar face, isn't she? Or not? Not particularly. I don't know who it was. But, you know, there were two different Pam moms. They were the different Pam Mom.

Of course. Early in the series. Yeah. The first one was the redhead because she comes to pick up Pam. And that's when she wants to meet Jim. And, you know, there, who was, who played Helene? I'm trying to look it up because she I know she's

A very attractive woman Oh yeah She's she's been on Like the first Pam mom Have no idea who she was But the second Pam mom That's there for Pam's wedding Is a very familiar face

Whoever's listening that knows who Pam's Second mom was And what else The other thing she's been in Let us know Okay You know we we get sidetracked like this often. Tommy and I do because we don't have a lot in common,

but one of the things that we have in common is we love the American version of the office. I actually love the BBC version, and I came to the American version very late because I was very snooty about it, thinking that nothing could top the BBC version, the Ricky Jervais version of the office, which I still find to be hysterically funny. I went back and watched it, I don't know, a year ago, the two seasons. It is still one of the greatest things that has ever been put out there in terms of comedy before. But the American office is unbelievable. And you know, Tommy, you know, you and I didn't really love necessarily some of the final episodes in the final season.

But that show, the American version, seasons two through five, was about as good as a sitcom. could be. Which is a lot of times when series hit their strides. I think after five years, it's rare you get the series that really is still, you know, hitting it at 100% after five seasons. You know, Seinfeld in the first season was not that good, but two through five, it really knocked it out of the park. Yeah, but I also think Seinfeld's a show that

never, ever wained. I never, I mean, when you got to the end, it was still incredible. It was. It was still a top, top-ranked show. Have you ever seen the video of Seinfeld being interviewed by Larry King? And Larry King suggests, you know, just flippantly that the show was canceled. I know. And Jerry flipped out.

I know, I saw it. I've seen that. And walks off the said. He stops the interview. Did he stop the interview or did he just look at him and say, what is wrong with you? What do you mean canceled with the number one show? I mean, you know, Larry. I don't remember.

I mean, he was pissed. You know, one of my, Larry King's whole thing about his interviewing style. And he used to say this is, I don't want to know that much about the subject. I think it's better if I go in and I become, you know, more curious as the interview goes on. And I mean, I guess I kind of understand that, but when you have somebody, like, I'm going to give you the example here. He had Brian Wilson, okay, genius, beach boy, Brian Wilson on 20 years ago. I don't know when it was. It was probably longer than 20 years ago.

You can find this somewhere on YouTube. and he literally at some point said, so did you guys ever play in front of a large gathering? He's asking Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, were you guys ever a smash? And I'm like, oh my God. And you know, Brian Wilson got bless his heart because he's not the swiftest anymore

after all of the drugs and everything. And he's like, yeah, Larry, we played in front of a football. few full houses in our day. Yet some people, you may have heard of us. We were called the Beach Boys. We had an album that might be the greatest album of all time called Pet Sounds. We did play in front of a large gathering or two. I mean, it was embarrassing. So, you know, there's... Well, I think, I think Larry King would do that. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt as an interviewing technique with the idea that if you're loaded with information, you may not listen to what the guest is saying.

I agree with that. You may have your list of, but you just, but if you're not a good listener, you're not a good interviewer. I totally agree with him. And I think he's, and I think he's, and I think, you better be able to hear what that gets is saying. And if he says something that you need to respond to or follow up on, you've got to do that.

You can't get consumed in your, in your background material. 100%. You know what I think you and I always did well together is, interviews. I think we always did really good interviews together. I agree with you, but here's where, I think there's another part to that too, because I remember watching an interview with Larry King. Larry King said that he wanted to approach these interviews where he knew a lot of his audience might be, which was knowing very little about the person he was in. interviewing. And he thought if he went in there with too much knowledge or too much, you know,

reverence or whatever, you know, there would be people out there saying, who is this person? Well, you know, I don't know if that's true or not, but you can't say to Brian Wilson, did you guys ever play in front of a large gathering? You got to know at least who he is and why you're interviewing him. On the other hand, Larry King went a long way with that style. Yeah, he did. He did. And you know what? I remember, you know, as a young person listening to him on radio. Because his overnight radio show was on WTOP locally, you know, when he was doing it out of Miami Beach. And it was a syndicated national show. And it was, you know, it was Omaha. Go ahead. You know, it was.

And I remember listening to it. I mean, I always listened. I listened to a lot of radio, you know, and a lot of talk radio. You know, even going back to before like sports talk radio became a thing, I was a big listener of Ken Beatrice here locally. Huge listener. As many people who grew up in the Washington area and were big sports fans were. I mean, I listened to Ken.

I mean, I would sit there like, you know, on a school night when he was on late, Because there was a period there where his show was actually on from like 10 to 1. And then for a lot of the time, though, it was mostly like a 7 to 10 show. But when he got moved to like real late at night, I would sit there and listen to all three hours on a school night. Mesmerized. Did I ever tell you that, you know, he did, he was at WMAL for all those years. And he really is Ken Beatrice in this town. And certainly even nationally.

I mean, before sports talk radio was ever a thing, there were local people doing sports talk radio shows, but they would be on news stations like WMAL, where it would just be one show. There was, you know, the first 24-hour seven-day-a-week all sports station, I think was WFAN in New York, I'm pretty sure. But you would still have these one-off shows that would, you know, run on, you know, primarily AM. radio and Ken Beatrice was incredibly successful, had an unbelievable following. And I didn't live that far away from WMAL on Jennifer Street. And so I think I was like 12 years old. And with a friend of mine, we went up there.

And, you know, it was right there next to the Jennifer Cinema movie theaters, which is where WMAL is still located on Jennifer Street, Northwest. and we jumped on the elevator, took it up, walked out, walked right in, and said, hey, where's Ken Beatrice? And they said, uh, he's back there. So we just walked back and we saw him and we just introduced ourselves. And he said, come on in, boys. And the thing I'll never forget is every other word was an F-bomb.

I mean, every other word was an F-bomb. And he's smoking away, but it was. was like such a thrill. And I can remember going, God, I'd love to do something like this as a job. I don't think that was really my first idea as a job. I really was more thinking about like a play-by-play career, because those are the guys that I really sort of enjoyed. But how did we get on this? Larry King. But, you know, even going back into the 70s, there was talk radio. I always listened to a lot of talk radio. You know who also did a talk, sports talk radio show in town was Al Koken. Al Koken was doing a show on W-T-O-P-P radio at nights with Bernie Smylevitz.

I think Bernie, Al's told me this before and I'm going to screw it up. So Al, if you're listening, because I know Al listens every once in a while, just text me. But I know Al did that show with Bernie Smylovitz. And I think there was somebody else also that did the show. But, you know, that was before, you know, Sports Talk Radio. Of course, Al ended up hosting middays at 980 with Coach Thompson and with Doc for many years. And then be Mitch, you know, as well. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, okay.

There's a couple of things going on. Number one, yesterday when I did the show, and I had Nakion. We were talking about Joanne Howard. I thought that, you know, Inaki agreed that a very serious suspension like the rest of the regular season was in order. I was not in favor of what many people were, which is that Joanne Howard should lose his job. But they did suspend him for five games. They fined him $40,000. Guard got fined $10,000.

And Joanne had, I thought, the perfect, you know, statement. of apology. You know, I know people really wanted it to come sooner, and he should have been more remorseful right in the press conference afterwards. But, you know, his statement was, quote, after taking time to reflect on all that happened, I realize how unacceptable both my actions and words were

and how they affected so many. I am truly sorry. I am offering my sincerest apology to my players and their families, my staff, my family, and the Michigan fans around the world. I would like to personally apologize to Wisconsin. Johnson's assistant coach Joe Krabbenhoft and his family too. Lastly, I speak a lot about being a Michigan man and representing the University of Michigan with class and pride.

I did not do that, nor did I set the right example in the way, in the right way for my student athletes. I will learn from my mistake and the mistake will never happen again. No excuses, exclamation point. I don't care that it came so late. I'm glad it came, though, because he needed a statement like that, because his actions after that game were completely and utterly out of line, even though, as I said yesterday,

it's not the worst thing we've ever seen, and it probably won't be the worst thing we've ever seen moving forward. It doesn't matter. The bottom line was it was completely out of order, and it deserved a serious suspension. And Kevin Warren, Tommy, the commissioner of the Big Ten, who was spineless last year when Juan and Turgeon had their exchange and he screamed that he was going to kill Turgeon,

you know, threatened to kill him. And that was after Turgeon had given them multiple warnings about the first two games. And he did nothing last year. He did nothing. So it was, I think that this time they acted appropriately. I thought that the suspension fine and guard getting fined a little bit but not getting suspended. I don't think guard deserved to get suspended at all. But I thought that that was appropriate.

What did you think? I'm fine with the punishment. I mean, I wasn't looking for Juan to lose his job over this issue. But I think the punishment was fair and just, and I think his statement was good, whether, you know, it would have been nice maybe if he'd have been a little bit, more realization as how much he screwed up right after the game. But, you know, he did a moment that happens sometimes. Well, you know, at least he put his hands on his own player like his own has.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, God, I mean, we're talking about, you know, a history as college basketball fans of knowing some of the stuff that Bobby Knights pulled. And like I mentioned yesterday, not that it's an apples to apples comparison, but you've got literally, you know, guys that have. you know, offered on wiretaps to pay players still coaching in the game. Look, I'm not a big Joanne Howard fan as a coach. You know, I think he's been really like out of order multiple times here. It's surprising to me because he was such a professional as a player.

But he went way over the line and some of you tweeted me, you know, and based on the conversation yesterday with Naki, I just don't know what you're looking at to think that somehow Greg Gard was at fault for this. I'm sorry, but a timeout with 15 seconds to go when the other guy's pressing you down 17 with your walk-ons in the game. Exactly. Coach your own team and shut the fuck up about somebody else's team if you're going to do that. But then other people said, well, he initiated it physically. What are you talking about?

I've watched this thing a million times. Joanne's going down the line. He's going to ignore him. By the way, not ignore him verbally because he's saying, you know, he's mouting off to him about the timeout. And he's going to do a blowby. And all guard does is put his hand out and say, whoa, wait a minute. Hold on here for a second so that he could explain to him. And then, Jwans, get your hands off me, take your hands off me.

And then it escalates. I don't know what planet you guys are on that somehow Greg Gard escalated or initiated something, and he's at fault for Juan throwing a punch at the guy at the assistant coach. I just don't see it that way. I mean, you're entitled to your own opinion. I didn't see it that way either. And I can't take credit for somebody. Maybe you read it too on social media said,

if Juan Howard was going to hit anybody for calling a timeout, it should have been Chris Weber. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that too. That's funny. I thought that was funny. Yeah. But, you know, I think the bottom line is, like, you know, the behavior by Hunter Dickinson, you know, in college park last year was completely out of order. And the head coach should have put a stop to it rather than encouraging it. And, you know, I'm sure there are other complaints maybe out there. I don't want to, you know, I'm not going to make up any, but I've certainly heard that there have been issues with some of the coaches in the Big Ten and Joanne. It's surprising to me.

Again, he was a total professional class act, always the calm demeanor, you know, always seemingly the adult in the room. But, you know, what he needed actually, the commissioner needed to act because if he had not made it a, serious suspension, and I think five games is serious. I do. You know, the last five games of a regular season where they've got to win a bunch of these games just to get in the tournament, you know, then it could continue to, you know, it would continue to happen potentially. But I thought his statement was perfect. I thought the suspension was right. Firing would have been ridiculous. I mean, that's, you know, I just, I don't want to go down that path, but people make mistakes and they can't just get fired every single time they make a mistake, especially if it's, I mean, he hasn't hit

anybody until Sunday. And again, Will. But you would say that the next time, if something else like this happens again, he would certainly lose his job. Yeah, I think that this was really the, this was, you better control yourself here because if things get out of hand with you again, certainly if he goes and punch him. punches somebody again, he's done, obviously. These are competitive heated battles.

There's probably going to be some jawing at some point between Joanne and another coach or, you know, whatever. But that stuff is all in the heated battle. But you can't go punching. You know, slapping, it certainly wasn't a close-fisted punch. But you can't do that. But anyway, whatever. By the way, speaking of slapping,

Have you seen the videos of these slap competitions that take place? I think a lot of them take place in Eastern Europe. I think I have. Where guys stand across from a table and try to slap each other as hard as they possibly can. Yeah, I think I have seen that. Why would somebody do that? They're remarkable. They're remarkable to watch.

I mean, some of those slats are like, like, Joe Fraser left hook. They're unbelievable. I know. I don't quite understand that at all. I don't get it either, but they're kind of entertaining watch. Yeah. Okay, so here in the opening segment of the show, we have ranked based on hotness.

Michael Scott, the women of, Michael Scott's various girlfriends, and eventually his wife, and daliances, Um, one, you know what, one day we'll just rank the rest of the women on the office, because that's always a conversation. Um, but we'll save that for another day. Uh, when we come back, I think we should get to some, it's not that it's breaking news, but there is some social media stuff from Aaron Rogers and from Russell Wilson that I think deserves some consideration, uh, in conversation today. I don't know if you want to weigh in on Mary Joe White. I did that yet. yesterday, but you haven't had a chance to talk about the league's investigation. And I want to get to Carson Wentz, too, and his availability for maybe Washington. We'll do all of those things after these words from a few of our sponsors. Carson Wentz, ladies and gentlemen, apparently the Colts are going to move on from Carson Wentz. After trading the Eagles last year, a first

rounder and a third rounder, and reuniting Carson Wentz with his quarterback's coach in Philadelphia, Frank Reich, who I think is an excellent head coach. After one season, and by the way, a big-time salary cap, dead cap number next year of $15 million, apparently the Colts want to move on from Carson Wentz. Can I interest any Washington football team fan, commanders fan, and Carson Wentz? I bet I can't. Would you do Carson Wentz if you were a Washington fan, Tommy? No, there's too many red flags. I mean, it's hard to believe that this guy is the quarterback that I saw a few years ago on the field against the Washington football team at the time. he was, he seemed to have the perfect package of size, strength, elusiveness.

I mean, talk about a guy who was hard to bring down. He was hard to bring down. I mean, he just seemed like, like the Eagles had found their guy for the next decade. And he hasn't been the same since. And, you know, for another team, for a team like the Colts with Frank Wright to basically sign off on him after one season, and that's the biggest red flag I can think of. So, no, I'm not interested in Carson Wentz. There's nobody on the Washington coaching staff,

who I think can be a guru enough to get this guy back to where he was. It's really amazing because Carson Wentz, during that 2017 season, when he got hurt late in the year and the Eagles were 11 and 2, and they were playing in the Coliseum against the Rams, he had thrown 33 touchdown passes to seven interceptions. He was a frontrunner for the MVP in year two in the league. And everybody thought that Philly had gotten it right with Carson Wentz. And here we are now on the verge, potentially, of the guy that apparently he needed the most,

and vice versa, Frank Reich, apparently ready to move on from him after a year. Of course it's a red flag. It's a major red flag. When you combine that with, remember this story, you know, it was a story, a combination story of Doug Peterson's exit from Philadelphia and Carson Wentz's exit from Philadelphia. And there were a lot of damning statements in there from, you know, players and other coaches about Carson Wentz, about how he was difficult, about how he blamed everybody else when there were issues. I mean, you're potentially now on a second team where nobody likes him. I mean, I'm very surprised because I thought Carson once had a chance to be a really good quarterback. And I thought that there was a really good chance that they'd figured out together in Indy.

And there were moments this year. You know, they were, look, all they had to do was beat Jacksonville as a 15-point favorite in the season finale to be a 10-and-7 team and in the postseason. with, by the way, numbers, if you're just looking at the numbers, and I would urge you not to as far as Carson Wentz's overall performance this year. But Carson Wentz, through 27 touchdowns this year, had just seven picks. Not a lot of yards for a guy that started and played in all 17 games, 3,500 yards passing, a 62.5% completion percentage. But he had some bad moments in some games. He had a terrible moment at home in a loss, an overtime loss to the Titans. He had a terrible, multiple bad moments in a game in which really it looked like he just choked.

It looked kind of like the whole team choked against Jacksonville, but he really did choke. Now, he had some really good games. He had a really good game against Tampa game. They lost this year during the course of the year. I think he threw for over 300 and had three touchdowns. He had a really good game in that Christmas night game at Arizona. He had an unbelievable game in the game against the Ravens on Monday night when the Ravens came from way back.

It was an incredible comeback. They won the game in overtime. But no, no for me. I mean, and not only that. All those great performances and they're willing to get rid of them. Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I wonder if they had beaten Jacksonville, had gone to the playoffs, and I think they would have been in Oakland spot, I think.

So they would have played Cincinnati. Or I forget how it would have, how the bracket would have shaken out. But, you know, if they'd gone and played a competitive game and lost in the postseason, would this conversation be a conversation? I don't know. Probably not, you know, because 10 and 7, you know, and getting to the postseason, especially when they started the year 0 in 3, would have been a hell of an accomplishment.

And most of their losses, by the way, when you go back and I'm looking at this now because I pulled up the Ravens game, they lost eight games, okay? They lost by three points to the Rams, by nine on the road to the Titans, six in overtime to the Ravens, three in overtime to the Titans,

seven to the lost by a touchdown at the end of the Buccaneers, lost on a one, walk off field goal by the Raiders 2320. Their worst loss of the year was the Jags loss by 15. Like all of their other losses were winnable games. But something's wrong with them. I mean, clearly something is not right. I had a caller call on this morning that said the stories out of Indy is that

Ursa can't stand them either. And that, you know, and so, but that Reich does want them. I don't know what the story is, but if you move on from Carson Wentz after giving up a first and a third rounder without an obvious replacement answer, something's wrong and you shouldn't go near him unless you're going to get him, unless they're going to pay you to take him and his salary.

Because that's almost what it would be, you'd be insane to trade anything for him given the salary and the contract you're going to inherit. You'd almost have to be like a Rams-Jarred Gough Detroit situation where the Rams essentially had to send that second first round pick along with Goff to get Detroit to take Goff's contract. I'm no one Carson Wentz. By the way, as an aside, he's better than Taylor Heineke.

Okay? So I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it wouldn't be an upgrade over what they have because he would be. But that's not the point. The point is you've got to reach for something big here. and Carson Wentz isn't that and if you're going to go second or third tier

you can't do it with a guy that literally the last two organizations sent packing because they couldn't stand them apparently. Yeah, you can't do that. Nope. Anyway, it doesn't matter. They're going to get one of those, they're going to take

a big swing, they're going to step up to the plate, they're going to get one of those big guys. Okay. They don't need no Carson Went. Here's the Aaron Rogers' Instagram. Have you seen this? I've seen something.

I'm so tired of this guy. You know, I've canceled him out of my life. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, no, I understand that. Okay. You're right on brand when it comes to Aaron Rogers. Here's his Instagram post. Some Monday night gratitude for some of the incredibly special people in my life

with some pictures from the last beautiful year. to Shaline Woodley, they just broke up, didn't they? I think they did. Yeah, they broke up like last week. Thanks for letting me chase after you the first couple of months after we met, and finally letting me catch up to you and be a part of your life. Thanks for always having my back, for the incredible kindness you show me, and everyone you meet, and for showing me what unconditional love looks like.

I love you, and I am grateful for you. To the men I got to share the quarterback room with every day, Matt, Nathaniel, Luke, Jordan Love, Kurt Benker. You guys made every day so much fun, and I'm thankful for the daily laughs and stress relief you brought me every week of the year. I love you guys. To the Friday crew, and it's some receivers, it's Cobb, it's Bakhtiari. I loved every moment we got to spend together this year. Your love and support was overwhelming, and I cherish the friendships I have with each of you.

To my teammates past and current, you were the ice. on the beautiful cake we call our job football. The friendships that we have will transcend our collective time in this game, and I am so thankful for the role that each of you have played in making my life that much better. I love you guys and cherish the memories we've made. To everyone else, spread love and gratitude, you beautiful people, and read a book once in a while to while you're at it. Love and peace.

I will say that this guy's become kind of insufferable, but let's cut to the football part of this. Is this a retirement message? Is this a message prior to going on Pat McAfee's show? I think it's tomorrow where it's usually today, but I think it's going to be tomorrow where he's on after a trade is made. I have no idea. I don't have any idea what's coming.

It sounds a little bit like a retirement. but it could be that he knows he's on the verge of getting traded too or the announcement of a trade. It could be. I don't think he's going to get traded. I think he's staying right there. I just think he likes playing cat and mouth. I think he thinks he's one of the smartest guys in the world

and everybody else is an idiot. And I think he likes to, you know, to play with the common people on social media with this kind of stuff. I don't think he's going anywhere. The common people. By the way, what's remarkable, not one word about his family still. Oh, no. I mean, he's nothing.

He doesn't have. I mean, still, he has no relationship with his family. What happened there? Okay. You know, what does that tell you? Well, I mean, I don't. It could tell you a lot of things, but. Well, Tommy, it could tell you a lot of things about him that aren't good,

or it could tell you a lot of things about his family. family that aren't good. Okay. Yes, it could. You know, I get that. But it's, it's so stunning, conspicuous how, I mean, you know, there's just nothing there. Let me just say this. He ain't coming to Washington people, okay? It's just, if he's, if he's on the trade market and there's going to be a trade announcement tomorrow, I don't think it's going to be to Washington. it would be so great for us if it did happen. It'd be so phenomenal for the business that we're all in here. You know, as we've said many times in the past, trust me, much better for us if they actually win.

And if they had Aaron Rogers, they would be in position to win big for the first time in 30 years. But I don't think that's happening. Yes, but let me just point out, the only time Aaron Rogers, is coming to Washington in the future is if there's another insurrection. Oh, stop it. That's the only time he's done it. Stop it. Another insurrection. You don't listen to people. You just assume and you label based on, you know, one stance.

Do you really think he was pro what happened on January 6th? And that he would actually come here and participate in another one? Because I don't. I've listened to a lot of his back and forth and his political stuff with Pat Mac and there's no chance that his opinion is anything other than that was a really bad day. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You know, you have so much time on your hands to listen to so many things.

I do. You know what? You know what I do? I actually read a lot and listen a lot because I don't have the same responsibilities I used to have when I was really not listening or reading anything. Because I don't have anybody really home with me anymore. Except for my lovely wife, of course. Of course. And we do so many things together, but I do.

I listen to and watch and read so much more over the last couple of years than I did in the 10 years that preceded it. It's true. I know you were being sarcastic, but it's actually true. Now, there was something else, too. Russell Wilson changed his Twitter pick, his Twitter avatar, I guess, to include. include a picture of him in his high school uniform when he was at, when he played high school football in Richmond. I forget the name of the school.

I have a friend of mine that lives in Richmond whose kids went to the same school when Russell Wilson was older. But anyway, so people are going nuts over that. So it changed from a picture of him and a Seattle Seahawks. uniform to his high school uniform, which was, again, a Virginia high school. So Washington fans apparently are going nuts over that. Now, to me, out of all of the big possibilities, okay, Rogers Wilson Watson. First of all, the Watson story this morning is that we're, is essentially, we're not going

to know until April 1 as to whether or not a grand jury decides to indict him on criminal charges. So read that story. Did you read that story about Sean Watson this morning or not? Yes. So he obviously is not going to be traded until people know that he's not going to jail. That would obviously be the case. Yeah. Even for this team. Stop. The Russell Wilson thing, again, the only thing I know for sure is that this year he wouldn't be, he wouldn't, you know, cross Washington off his list. Washington would be on his list. I still don't think anybody in their right mind trades Russell Wilson unless you're getting somebody like Russell Wilson back. You know, like if somebody said, hey, the Seahawks are talking to the Texans about a trade for Watson,

well, you know, if they replace Wilson with Watson, okay. If Aaron Rogers is going to Seattle and then Russell Wilson is coming to you know, wherever, okay, but I still don't get why they would trade Russell Wilson. I don't. Who would you rather have? I've told you, Rogers. I'd rather have Rogers. Really? Yeah.

Now, I need to know. Wilson's 33. I know. Rogers is 38. They're going into their age 34 and 39 seasons. I thought we talked about this already. But we can do it again real quickly. I, Rogers, for three years, I'll take over Wilson for five because Rogers is going to give me a better chance to win the whole thing.

And I love Russell Wilson. Don't get me wrong. Like, what a consolation prize that would be. And they'd be really good. But I think I mentioned this to you before. I can just tell you that, like, the boys in the desert would basically make Washington with Rogers one of the two or three favorites to win. the NFC championship next year. Along with the Rams, depending on what happens in San Francisco, maybe San Francisco, maybe Dallas. If they had Russell Wilson, they'd probably be a notch or two below that

in the odds to win the NFC championship. They'd still be a contender, and I would love it if they had Russell Wilson, but Aaron Rogers, Tommy, wins basically 13 games every year. Like you're going to have a chance to win 12, 13, 14 games next year, win the division, the one seat. And then everybody can complain about how he never gets it done in the postseason,

even though he's had some really good post seasons, you know, even when they've lost games. But yeah, I'm with you. I'd rather have Aaron, I'd rather have Aaron Rogers. For some of the things that you said, and I think he'd be much more entertaining than Russell Wilson. I just think he's better than Russell Wilson. I mean, I think Aaron Rogers, I think they're both going to go down as two of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. But Rogers' place on that list is going to be ahead of Wilson's. Okay. The odds of which one comes to Washington, which one is greater? Well, they're both super long shots, but the odds of Wilson, but the odds of Wilson coming to Washington are better. Okay. And I would say much better because it looks like Aaron Rogers might be retiring.

But I still think those odds are really low. I just don't see them going anywhere unless they're going to retire. I think actually if you told me of the two quarterbacks which is the more likely to get traded I actually think before this Instagram whatever it means, whatever this post means

I'd actually say that I think the chances that Aaron Rogers would get traded are equal, maybe a little bit better than Russell Wilson's. But I think that Rogers isn't going to get traded here. Whereas Wilson, if he were to get traded, like if they were to actually put them on the block,

there's at least a chance that he might end up here. But we'll see what happens. Something's happening with Aaron Rogers today. Something's happening. Did you have any thoughts to the Mary Jo White assignment by the league to investigate the Tiffany Johnston allegations? Well, I got a column running tomorrow that talks about Roger Goodell's cheerleading squad. Who? Beth Wilkins said?

And she's one of them. She is? This guy loves his female legal. His female lawyers. Yeah, he does. He does. He loves him. That's all they hired.

Lisa, what's her name? Lisa Friel. Friel. Yeah. Mary Joe White. Beth Wilkinson. Now Loretta Lynn. Right.

On the Brian Flores thing. Bell in the Brian Flores thing. You know, so he, I call them the cheerleading squad. It's Roger's cheerleading squad. So you really think that these people are just essentially on, you know, the company payroll? Yes. Really? I think they know, I think they know where their paycheck has come from.

Mary Joe White. Listen, for one thing, you know, she represented the Sackler family at one point? I do. I did a whole thing on her yesterday with Howard Gutman. Yeah. Yeah. She represented. So do you know.

Yeah. Yeah. And in the investigation into the Carolina Panthers, and this was reported by Yahoo Sports, she constantly ran into roadblocks because of non-disclosure agreements. Okay? This is 2017. So she recommended to Roger Goodell that the NFL do away with these non-disclosure agreements when it comes to cases of sexual misconduct or assault so they don't get in the way.

Now, here we are at 2022, and obviously he's ignored that recommendation. You know? Yeah. So, but yet he's still willing to take another paycheck from him. You know, he didn't listen to her the last time, but here she is saying, yep, Roger just send me the check. Well Now they may be forced They may be forced

To actually come up with a real Credible report to release this time around They may be painted into the corner to do that But so far So far You know Roger Goodell Tries to create this illusion

By hiring all these Female lawyers You know Like there's some Like an illusion of inclusion Of women In the NFL when the most powerful lawyer in the league is a guy who made jokes about minorities and women to Bruce Allen.

Yeah, Jeff Pash. So I'm not very optimistic. I think the key lies with the House subcommittee, if there's any odds to be had. I think that's where it begins and ends. The oversight committee. The worst investigation ever done was actually done by Ted Wells, a male. Yes, it was. The deflake it was.

Yeah, I don't, I think, I don't know this. I'm just going to tell you what somebody who I, using your logic, I don't know what the answer is, but I'll go to somebody who probably does know what the answer is. And in this case, it would be, you know, our friend Howard Gutman, who was on the show yesterday, longtime DC attorney, big time DC attorney, the ambassador to Belgium. He was excellent on the show yesterday. And I've asked him because essentially asking, you know, because of what you've said about Beth Wilkinson specifically, about whether or not they're just sort of on the payroll and whether or not these are legitimate investigations.

And he goes, no, no, these people are legitimate investigators with very impeccable reputations. they're not going to just produce a puff piece that the league wants to produce. I'm paraphrasing here. So I think... I know that. But again, Beth Wilkinson took an investigation, conducted an investigation that was never an investigation. It was a cleanup operation. What do you mean by cleanup operation?

In other words, the goal was not to obviously to investigate and have a conclusion that would be made public. Right. Okay. She was supposed to go in there, identify the problems that identify what went wrong, and then they were going to come up with a way to save Dan and fix it. Now, you know,

even if she recommended that Snyder sell the team, she took this job under the idea that this information was never going to see the light of day. So that was any recommendation she came up with was actually, useless if it was going to be done in secrecy. Well, I guess, except for what you just described, the cleanup part of it would be to come up with recommendations that this particular team and maybe other teams can put into kind of a best practices atmosphere to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again. And I think that Washington, you know, did take a, I mean, remember, they had already started down the path of creating a different culture with, you know, the help of Jason Wright, et cetera.

And then when the league made that statement, they said that Washington has implemented many of the things that were, you know, recommended by Beth Wilkinson. I mean, that would be. That's a cleanup operation. No, no, no, I hear you. I hear you. I hear you on the cleanup. I got to what you meant by cleanup. I understand now.

But what I'm saying to you is, do you know for a fact that Beth Wilkinson thought that this was an investigation for her to produce a conclusion that the league would then take and move forward on, regardless of what the conclusion and recommendation was? There was a document that was revealed by the House Oversight Committee that, you know, before the investigation even started. like a mutual destruction document. Right. You know, mutual self-destruction document. Well, she knew that existed. Right. She knew that both sides had to agree for this information to be released.

Okay? And she knew that was never going to happen. Right. She could have recommended that Dan Snyder beat a pool boy for the next 10 years at league meeting. It doesn't. Nothing was going to come of it. It doesn't mean that she wasn't, you know, asked to make. recommendations, it just means that she knew going in they weren't going to be made public and

that they may not be followed. Whether she took the job to investigate for the purposes of, as you called it, a cleanup or the purposes of coming to, you know, a major conclusion on the guilt of, you know, various people in sexual harassment, I mean, I don't, not every investigation shares the same outcome purpose. I mean, I bet she's done, maybe she's done a lot of investigations where she knew going in, they weren't going to be made public.

This wasn't about ousting anybody. This was about creating a better, best practice, you know, HR environment for the company that they were investigating. I don't know. And by the way, I don't know if I'm right or wrong. I'm just saying that you use cleanup operation is sort of a pejorative description.

It might be somewhat typical of some of these investigations. You know what? An investigation like this that was painted as an investigation to hear what these victims had to say, look, the conclusion was never going to be about responsibility. It was going to be about cover-up, and I think she knew that. look at this is a woman again like i've said this time after time this is a woman who stood in front of reporters at a courthouse and once said the NFL never hid medical information about damage from concussions to its players

and she might as well have stood there and said the earth is flat you know that's ridiculous i i let me just go back to you know she took this gig it's a cleanup operation. She's kind of, you know, working for the house, so to speak, in your view. If that's the case, then why worry about making her findings public? Well, because there's no talent. You don't know what's in there. You want to see what's in there.

You want to be a, you know, the people who follow this team, people who care about these kind of issues, the lawmakers, who obviously care about these issues, want to know the details of this investigation. You never know what's in an investigation. Usually nothing good. So on the Mary Joe White thing, because, you know, it happened after the podcast on Friday. And so a friend of mine sent me all of this stuff on Mary Jo White, and I talked about it yesterday, so I'm going to give you the Cliffs Notes version right now.

You know, and, you know, she was the one, as you've already, mentioned, I think, you know, that she investigated Jerry Richardson. And so I got all these things on Friday from people just saying this is it, this is the one that's going to do it. She's coming in to save the day. No, no, no, no. The Jerry Richardson

thing, we've talked about this. Just not even close to the same situation as the Snyder thing. He was already out. He had volunteered to sell his team at 81 years old, and her investigation did prove the allegations against

them, which included, by the way, in addition to four sexual harassment allegations, a racial remark that he made to a team scout who was black, she proved that all of those allegations were in fact true. And they find him, basically, I think after he had sold the team to Tepper, or when it was in the process of being sold, they find him, and he paid a $2.75 million fine for that. But none of what she investigated on Jerry Richardson, Jerry Richardson, influenced Richardson's sale. Like there was no league vote to outhouse Richardson. He had already decided he was out.

But there's another case, Tommy. There's another case. By the way, just remind me because somebody said, Tommy, you'll know the answer to this. I just remember this. Just make a mental note to yourself to ask me about Joseph McCarthy. Okay? All right.

So did you also know that she? She handled the investigation into the Ohio State Urban Meyer Zach Smith situation. Yeah, she saved Urban Meyer's job. Oh, my God. This is why, like I said, don't get your hopes up, people. And by the way, the Sackler family, I was reading that as Howard was on with me yesterday. She's played both sides. You know, she's represented big, you know, billionaire clients.

And as an investigator, like, here's the quote. I still can't get over this. Basically, this investigation for all intents and purposes, proved that Urban Meyer knew that his assistant coach, Zach Smith, was a longtime domestic abuser. Okay? He had actually tried to figure out how to wipe clean old text messages. because he knew that they were going to find him. Her quote afterwards, the final penalty was a three-game suspension. He was suspended for three games at the beginning of that season,

the first two of which were where Ohio State was like a 35-point favorite. Right, exactly. She said afterwards, while those denials were plainly not accurate, Coach Meyer did not, in our view, deliberately lie. And then she said, Coach Meyer impressed us with his sincere commitment to the respect for women core value that he espouses and tries to instill in his players. I mean, so anyway, the net of it. And this is a former federal prosecutor. Right.

So she was on the side of, she was on the other side. You're right. She plays boats. A lot of these guys play boats. That's what Howard. Yeah. Howard. Yeah.

That's what Howard said. O'Rello Lynch is doing it. Yeah, of course. Loretta Lynch was Obama's attorney general, and she went to work for this high-priced law firm, and she defended McDonald's in a lawsuit filed by black franchisees who said their business practices were discriminatory. She defended McDonald's.

Really? So, yes. Well, Loretta Lynch, too, was, she was, I mean, she was, she was the head of our wasn't she the Attorney General? She was the Attorney General and Loretta Loretta Lernerner She was the one that stayed on the plane

to give Bill all of the all of that information going into 2016 I think that famous meeting between her and Bill Clinton on a plane like I don't know where it was hey somebody reminded me of this

so yesterday I just was rambling and I could not remember who this person was and somebody said, Tommy will know who this person was. So I don't even know how I got to it, but basically I think I said something like, you know, Mary Joe White is going to be, she's going to be the person that stands up and says, have you no decency, sir, you know, which was the comment made to Joseph McCarthy during the, you know, all the McCarthyism stuff of the 50s. And I could not recall who said and had that famous line, have you no decency, sir. Do you know who it was?

I haven't looked at it. Jesus, that was during the hearings. Yeah. That was a lawyer named a lawyer. Welch? Was it Welch? You are. I don't know. Oh, my God. I just looked it up, because I didn't look it up yesterday after the show. You're right. It's Welch. I said Walsh. I think I said, is it Walsh or something like that? Well, you're close. You're close. You had it.

Yeah, but I didn't get it. So you got it. You got it. Hey, Brandon, you're right. Tommy got it. Hold on here. Here it is. He was...

Joseph Welch, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so this, the Army hired Boston lawyer, Joseph Welch to make the case. the session, June 9, 1954, McCarthy charged that one of Welch's attorneys had ties to a communist organization. As an amazed television audience looked on, Welch responded with the immortal lines that ultimately ended McCarthy's career. Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really

gauged your cruelty or your recklessness. When McCarthy tried to continue his attack, Welch angrily interrupted. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency? By the way. And the place erupted with applause. Right.

The hearing room. 1954 in front of an amazed television audience. That was all pretty new stuff back then. Yeah, it was. For the American public. And, you know, McCartner, The McCarthy's Chief Counsel in those hearings was Roy Cohn. Right, of course.

Roy Cone is Donald Trump's mentor. Yeah. Yep. You want to see a good movie? They don't show it anymore. HBO did a movie called Citizen Cone. Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it on Roy Cone.

Yeah. With James Woods in it. It's a pretty good movie, I thought. There was one other topic, two other topics we wanted to get to today. Charlie Taylor, which I promised you on the podcast yesterday, I would wait and really get into it with Tommy today. And then I also want to talk about this NBA ranking of the all-time 75 players. ESPN did it.

I made Tommy read it before because he doesn't have much time to read these days. He's so busy going from one statue to the next, from one bridge to the next. And we'll talk about that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to use MyBooky if you're thinking about betting on sports these days. MyBooky.ag, mybooky.com. Use my promo code. Kevin D.C., and they'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar, all the way up to $1,000. The tournament's right around the corner, conference tournaments a couple of weeks away.

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They'll match your deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand bucks. They're giving you free money. Okay. I want to start with Charlie Taylor because I don't, I know you wrote about it. Tommy's got a really good column. on Charlie Taylor as well. I want to just start with this, and then I'll let you talk about Charlie Taylor, and then I'll follow up. I think you can make the case

that Charlie Taylor is the greatest offensive skill position player in franchise history. Now, I'm going to take the quarterbacks out of it because I think Sammy Ball would immediately be the right answer if you include quarterbacks. But if you take the quarterback, out of it. You can make the case that Charlie Taylor is the greatest offensive skill position

player in franchise history. He's got the most touchdowns, 90 of them, during the course of his career. 79 pass receptions, 11 as a runner. Remember, he came into this league as a running back. And that he played, even though Art Monk is ahead of him in receptions and yards, Charlie Taylor's number two on that list. Art Monk played a lot more games. Art Monk played 30, 40 more games, but really he played probably 70 games, if you count the games in which Taylor, you know, 80 games where Taylor was playing halfback and not wide receiver. So I think you can, and I, Tommy, I'm old enough just barely to remember Charlie Taylor in the 70s, not the 60s. I don't remember Sonny and Charlie Taylor and Bobby Mitchell, you know, and Jerry Smith and the prolific

offensive teams. I remember Charlie Taylor with George Allen. And I know, and I read Len Shapiro's column, and I read your column. And I know that, you know, Charlie didn't think and didn't have the same chemistry with Billy Kilmer that he had with Sonny Jurgensen. And maybe if Sunny had stayed healthy, Taylor would have obliterated the record books for the franchise anyway. But I think you can easily make the case that in terms of a offensive skill position player, he's the best the franchise has ever had. I think that's a fair assessment. I mean, I think he can. All-round skilled position talent, absolutely. You can do that. You know, it's funny. I read Len's story and the stuff about Troy, the friction between Charlie and Billy Kilmer. What he had told me,

when I spoke to him a long time ago for my book, Hale Victory, the oral history of the Washington Redskins, which you can buy on Amazon for, you don't know, you'll have to break the bank to buy it. He told me that the game, the championship game against Dallas, the 26 to 3-72 NFC championship game, that was the finest game he ever played as a football player. And that was Billy Killer as the quarterback.

Yes, it was. He caught seven passes for 146 yards and two touchdowns from Kilmer. He said everything was so easy for me on that day. It all came so smooth. So even though he had, he necessarily didn't click with Billy Kilmer, he certainly clicked on this day because he said it was the best game he ever played. Len wrote about that, you know, the friction between he and Kilmer and that things changed when George Allen got there.

Look, Sonny felt the same way. You know, Sunny felt the same way about George Allen. I mean, he really suppressed what Sonny and the offense was. George Allen was a defensive head coach. He believed in running the football and not putting it at risk offensively and that his defense in special teams would win games. And by the way, he was right. And it worked back then.

You know, they went, but here's the interesting thing. And I talked about it briefly yesterday, but I wanted to save it for you. one of the first games I can remember as a kid, as a very young boy watching George Allen's first team. It's the first team I remember, the 1971 George Allen, Washington Redskins. They started that season off 5 and 0. And then in October, they went to Arrowhead to play the Kansas City Chiefs. These are your chiefs, all of the Hall of Famers on defense, Willie Lanier and Buck Buchamp. and etc. And then offensively, Len Dawson and Otis Taylor and Ed Podalak, those great chief

teams. They, two years earlier, had won the Super Bowl, Super Bowl four. Hank Stram was the coach. And Charlie Taylor caught a touchdown pass right before halftime. I went and found the NFL game of the week, which, you know, episode on this game. He caught a touchdown pass right before the end of the first half. And as he was getting tackled crossing the goal line, he fractured his ankle. They had a 17 to 6 lead without him in the second half. By the way, in that game, in the first half, I had this yesterday. Hold on.

Now I need to go back and look at it. He had two touchdown catches in the first half of the game against Kansas City. And they had a 17 to 6 lead. And then without him in the second half, they lost the lead. lost the game and ended up. So in that game, in a half, seven catches, 125 yards, two touchdowns, and a half against the Kansas City Chiefs. He fractured his ankle. He missed the rest of the year. They went nine, four, and one. So they ended up losing that game and three more. So they basically, without Charlie Taylor, went four, four, and one the rest of the way. And then they lost

in the first round of the playoffs to the 49ers as the wild card team. But for all that I read, Shapiro talking about that, you know, he didn't think it was the same with George Allen and he didn't have the same chemistry with Billy Kilmer. They had some chemistry that year. And when they lost him, you know, it became a different, a totally different team offensively the rest of the year. And Washington got him back the following year and they ended up going to the Super Bowl. and he had the two touchdown catches,

the last of which was over Mark Washington for the Cowboys, a cornerback, which was probably the most famous catch of his career, which was the early fourth quarter, 10-3 game in the NFC championship game, and Kilmer in stride, 45-yard touchdown pass, and with their defense, the game was over at that point. Their defense was dominant in 1972.

Of course, Charlie's always said, if Sonny had been healthy, they would have won the Super Bowl. A lot of people have said that. A lot of people have. Let me give one last thing about Charlie Taylor. And this always stuck with me. And I always thought Charlie Taylor explained the Cowboys, Redskins' rivalry among the players better than anybody.

And this was his explanation, because Charlie Taylor was born in Grand Prairie, Texas. He said the Redskins-Cans' Cowboys rivalry was down to the same. to the bone, down to the marrow, my mother would get threatening phone calls. It was also, it was always a very intense series. Half out ball club was from Texas, so it was like a homecoming. All the family and friends would be there at the stadium. All the guys from Texas had to produce because we had to live down there in the off-season. Yeah.

You know, I thought that was the best way. That's why it, I mean, that was when the rivalry was at its most intense, I think, among the players, when so much of the team was literally had to live in Texas during the off season. Well, wasn't Diren Talbert from Texas? I mean, the biggest cowboy hater of all went to the University of Texas, I think. Yes, yes. Kenny Houston was from Texas? Yeah.

Absolutely. So I thought that was the best explanation of the rivalry between the players. You also in your column wrote about the day that he broke Don Maynard's record, which you and I remember we had this discussion and I said, I think he broke Don Maynard's record. And then you looked it up and it was true. So here's how it went. Think about this in terms of, you know, we talk about this franchise,

the Redskins franchise, having. you know, great offensive lines. They've had great left tackles over the years. Well, how about this? So Charlie Taylor, at the end of the 1975 season, breaks Don Maynard, who also recently passed away. I think that's why we were talking about Don Maynard. Don Maynard, who was a jet receiver with Joe Namath, held the NFL record for career

receptions. Charlie Taylor broke that record, became the all-time receptions leader in NFL history, he held onto that record, 649 catches, until Charlie Joyner broke that record in 1984. So Taylor from 75 through the end of the 83 season was the all-time NFL receptions leader. Charlie Joyner passed Charlie Taylor in 1984. And then Steve Largent passed Charlie Joyner. And then in 1992, on Monday night football.

against the Broncos, Art Monk, passed Steve Largent. So Washington, over a 17-year period, had two different receivers who, you know, at one, at that, you know, in their moment were the all-time past catchers in terms of receptions in NFL history. And now, you know, now those numbers are dwarfed, you know, in NFL history. I mean, I don't even know where Charlie Taylor even ranks. I'm going to look it up real quickly on reception's career. I mean, Charlie Taylor was one time the all-time leading NFL pass catcher with 649 catches, okay?

Just so everybody understands, 649. Where does that rank now? 67th on the list. Oh, my God. All right. Art Monk, who retired with 940 receptions and was the all-time. pass reception leader when he retired is 20th on the list with 940. Jerry Rice 1,549 catches.

I mean nearly two and a half times the catches that Charlie Taylor had. I'm looking at this list to see if there's anybody active that's gaining. Well, Larry Fitzgerald is number two on the list, but he is still 117 catches away from Jerry Rice, so it's probably not going to happen. And then going down the list, man, you've got to go down the list. Antonio Brown's 21st on the list.

Wow. DeAndre Hopkins is 36th. He's got 789 career catch. There's nobody really I mean, Jerry Rice's number I mean, that's another one of those numbers. Will that ever be reached? I mean, Larry Fitzgerald's gotten close.

Tony Gonzalez is 200 away, but obviously he's retired. Witten is fourth on the list of all-time receptions. Fourth. Wow. That's amazing for a tight end. Yeah. Julio Jones is 25th. So of the truly active players that still have, you know, some career left,

because I don't know that Antonio Brown's ever going to play again, Julio Jones is 25th with 879 catches. Anyway, all right, last thing to get to. So they came out with the all-time top 75 NBA list. And then ESPN ranked that list, one through 75. I asked Tommy to look at it before the show. Let me give you a little bit of a taste of like the, you know, I'll give you the top 10, okay, of all time because this is where most of the debate usually is. Number 10 is Kobe.

Number nine is Oscar. Number eight's Tim Duncan, seven Larry Bird, six Russell, five wilt, four is Magic, three is Kareem, two is LeBron, and one is Michael. I didn't watch any of this. Apparently they introduced all of the 75 during the All-Star game and Jordan got the biggest hand by far and was announced last. By the way, if you're wondering, this is an NBA ESPN NBA expert panel, and they voted on this. It says that they voted on thousands of head-to-head player matchups taking into consideration the quality and quantity of their NBA contributions, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, you want to just start with the top 10? Because I have, I do have a major gripe on this list, which I will get to. But I think Michael's still number one. I mean, I'm not putting LeBron number one,

and I'm not putting anybody else number one. I really don't want to put LeBron number two, but I think he's in the top four. Magic was always my number two. And then I got to the center conversation, which you can speak to better. I mean, I know Kareem, I didn't see Wilk or Russell play. Right. I saw all freedom play. Russell at the end of his, very end of his career, Wilf, near the end of his career. Look, for me, Will Chamberlain is still number one. He still holds so many records in the NBA record book. He did things that nobody else had ever done before and nobody has done really since the way Wilts has done. I'm not going to go through all the statistics that we've talked about. To me, it's Will Chamberlain is the number one

player in the history of the NBA. I think in this thing, I think Kareem is overrated. I think it's the third best player on this list. For a seven-foot-two player who averaged only 11.2 rebounds a game in his career, that's overrated to me. Is that your biggest gripe? That's my biggest gripe. I mean, besides Bullis Reed, being number 57, he should be higher than that. But I think Earl Monroe is buried really deep on the list. I can't find where exactly he is.

But I always think that Kareem is overrated. He's a top 10 player of all time. He's like what? The second leading score in the history of the league, third leading score in the history of the league. But I'm sorry. A guy's 7 foot 2. I need more than 11 rebounds a game. I think I agree with you.

Because he would not be my number one center. And again, I didn't see Wilt or Russell play. but I think a lot of people would have Will and Russell ahead of Cream. I know that's the, sometimes I always feel like, and we say this all the time, when we have these conversations, it's like you need to almost separate the centers out. They're like their own category. But anyway, I had two major gripes. By the way, if you're wondering if there are any bullets wizards, yeah,

Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld are on this list. Wes Unseld comes in at number 48 on the list of the 75 greatest. It's actually a list of 76 for whatever reason. And Elvin Hayes comes in at number 58. Sorry, that's a whiff. Elvin Hayes is not the 58th greatest player of all time. He is higher than that. And so, of course, you would say, well, who are you going to put in front of them?

Let me just, I mean, I've mentioned this so many times about Elvin Hayes. I don't think people, I think for whatever reason, he just is always way underrated in the conversation of the greatest players of all time. Do you know that Elvin Hayes, Tommy, played in 80 or more games for 16 consecutive seasons? The dude never missed games. All right. He averaged 21 points, 12 and a half rebounds, and a couple of blocks per game. won the title in 78. You know, ironically, you know, as much as I love Elvin Hayes and he was my, he's the guy,

he was my guy. I mean, I loved Schneer too, but I always felt like Elvin Hayes was much more significant to the bullet success. I shouldn't say much more. That's not fair. I think he was more important to the team's success in the 70s than Wes Unseld was. Now, I don't think either one of them would have had the level of success that they had without each other. So I understand that.

Do you know that Elvin Hayes, Tommy, is still on the all-time rebound list, fourth all-time in total rebounds, career rebounds. Fourth. It's really amazing. Here are the players that rank in front of him. Chamberlain, Russell, and Kareem. They're centers. Elvin Hayes was a power forward. He's got the four. fourth most rebounds in NBA history ahead of Moses Malone, Tim Duncan, Carl Malone, who for me, I actually think I would, Carl Malone in terms of true power forward, is the greatest power forward of all time, unless you want to put Duncan into that category.

But to me, Elvin Hayes and Carl Malone were like the exact same player. You know, they had the same kind of chiseled body. They played the same way. But Elvin Hayes is still fourth on the all-time reality. Bounds list in NBA history, and on the points list, he's still 11th. Like, he's ahead of Elijah Juan and Oscar and Dominique and Duncan and Havlicek and Garnett, Reggie Miller, Jerry West. You know, Kevin Durant will pass him eventually, but he's still 11th.

I just think that Elvin Hayes is better than the 58th greatest player of all time. And the biggest knock. I think you're absolutely right. The biggest knock on him, Tommy. and you know this, is that he was a prickly dude. He was not a warm guy with the media. And to be fair, even though he had some phenomenal playoff games and playoff series, he played very poorly the first time they went to the finals and got swept by Golden State.

And when they won it in 78, he was in foul trouble in Game 7 the entire game and fouled out. and was really a non-factor in the seventh and deciding game that year. But he was, like I'm looking at the players in front of him. No offense, but I think he's a better player than Willis Reed. I think he's definitely a better all-time player than Clyde Drexler who comes in at 53rd. You know, Nate Thurman, you'd have to speak to him. I mean, Jerry Lucas, you know what? Bob McAdoo's at 45 on this list.

Bob McAdoo was a great score. Don't get me wrong. One of the greatest scores ever. Bob McAdoo was not the defender, rebounder, or shot blocker that the big E was. He wasn't. I'd have Elvin Hayes in front of him. You're right. I'd have him in front of him, too. Now, McAil, who many people will say is the greatest power forward of all time, I would say Carl Malone is, and then I would say it's the Biggie and McCale. If you're not counting Duncan as a power forward, if you're counting Duncan as a center,

which, you know, whatever. A lot of people say he's a power forward, and Robinson and him, you know, whatever. McAil comes in at 39 on the list. That's too far ahead of the Big E. You know, Hayes was a much better athlete. I loved McCale's game. Don't get me wrong. But Elvin Hayes basically averaged five more points, four more points,

and five more rebounds per game than McHale did. I mean, McCale had, you know, a team with so many stars on it. I understand it, but the bullets had Unselled Hayes, Dandrich, Phil Schneer, they had some stars too on their team. And then the only other major gripe that I have, and I know I've mentioned this many times before, Elijah On comes in at 13. I just think that's too low for him. I personally think Elijah won, the players in front of him, Durant's at 12 already. I think that's a bit of a reach already.

Is he a top 20 player right now? and might he end up as a top 10 all-time great, I guess. But I'd have Elijah Juan in front of Kobe. I'd have him in front of Duncan on this list, minimum, those two players. Elijah Juan's one of the greatest players to ever play. He's one of the greatest combined offensive low-post threats. By the way, face the basket threats too. And defenders in one body we have ever seen, ever.

He was one of the most skilled players offensively, and he was just dominant as a defender, as a shot blocker. I'm pretty sure nobody's even close to him in Block shots career, right? I don't think so. Probably not. I think Elijah won's the all-time. I'm looking that up right now. Remember, they didn't start keeping Block shots until the 80s. Yeah.

There's none for Russell or Wilt. Yeah, I've got the, okay, I've got the average on blocks per game, blocks career. Yeah, Elijah one's number one. Elijah one, Matumbo's two, Kareem is three. I just think that Elijah won deserves a couple of spots higher. I don't, you know, and for those that say, well, he would have never won a title, had Jordan not gone and played baseball, I would have loved to. have seen those rockets against those bulls.

I'm sure Chicago probably would have won, but they would have been better tests for Jordan than any of the other teams were. I mean, the Lakers, the Jazz, the Sonics, the Suns, any of the other teams, the Blazers, any of the other teams they beat in the finals, the rockets would have been their toughest test by far. All right. We've done for the day. Do you have any other thoughts? No, we got breaking news. What's the breaking news? Well, the breaking news. I got an email. I believe it's legitimate.

From the public relations with commanders.com says the Washington commanders have updated their crest. We have heard from our fans loud and clear going forward how crest will reflect our Super Bowl victories using the year. from that regular season. You're welcome. You're changing the crest. You're welcome, everybody. I just opened up the email. I just got the same email.

You know, can we just be serious here for a moment? I think that's a good for them, a golf clap for them, because in the past, they would stay sort of steadfast. in their wrongness, in their mistakes. They wouldn't admit them. They wouldn't fix them. This is an admission that they got it wrong. And then after they tried with the Roman numeral thing,

which, by the way, I didn't have much of a problem with the Roman numeral thing. The league pushed back on it, which I thought, to be honest with you, was kind of petty, and said, well, you can use the years. And so now they're going to use the years. So we're going to get the 82, 87, and 91 to go with 37 and 42. And I don't know. I mean, I will tell you this, I would bet you any amount of money, the driving force behind this was Jason Wright. A hundred percent the driving force behind this was.

I mean, Dan may have said, oh, my God, you guys screwed this up. Well, we showed it to you and you didn't figure it out. But I, you know, give them credit when they deserve it. I mean, I didn't think they would change it. had him on the radio show that day, and I said, you're wrong. These are the wrong dates. And he pushed back a little bit, and I said, you got to fix it. And he said, well, we listen, we're going to listen to fans. We're going to listen to feedback, you know, and, you know, they did. They listened to the feedback, and they changed. I mean, this is, Tommy, this is a new thing for

them. They never admit they're wrong. I know, but this is like giving a kid a credit for the second time he told. takes a basic math test and gets two plus two equals four right this time. I mean, it's a really low bar. You know what? They needed to retire Charlie Taylor's jersey before the jersey that they most recently retired. And I would urge them, and I already have, just so everybody knows this, they need to retire Sonny Jorgensen's jersey. That needs to be the next one that gets her.

retired. Bobby Mitchell was totally appropriate as number two behind Sammy Baugh. Sean Taylor, again, I'm not going to bore everybody again and be repetitive. I don't have any problem with his jersey eventually getting retired. It should have never, ever been retired before several players who played for this organization that earned it. And I know he didn't have a chance to earn it. I understand that. And that makes the special exception that eventually he would get his jersey retired. But Sonny Jurgensen needs to get his jersey retired next. I'd like that to be

next year's Jersey retirement during the season. I would agree. I would agree. Okay. This was fun, as always. You've got Donna that's going to be the name of the show today. Donna or Jan.

All right, see you. Back tomorrow, everybody. All right, see you. I am taking a calculation. What's the upside? I overcome my nausea, fall deeply in love, babies, normalcy, no more self-loathing. Downside, I date Michael Scott publicly and collapse into myself like a dying star. Hello? Hi, Donna, it's Michael. Michael, I didn't think I hear from you. Have you been? I have a disease for which there is no known cure that has been sexually transmitted to me. I can't even say it.

I Oh my God R P E E Wait You're calling to tell me

that you have herpes No I am calling to see if you gave me herpes Because if you did I would be able to avoid A lot of sucky conversations So you have it right

No Does your stupid husband have it No he doesn't Are you telling me I have to get tested? Yes I'm telling you you have to get tested for her Herpes. Goodbye. So long, Donna.