The Kevin Sheehan Show - Durant Done, Warriors Alive

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Kevin and Thom recapped a crazy Game 5 of the NBA Finals and the bizarre aftermath. Lots of discussion about Kevin Durant's injury, Nick Nurse's TWO ill-fated timeouts, and predictions on the remainder of the series. Nats, Redskins, and which DC sports figure rivals David Ortiz in Boston. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yes, indeed. He's back and negative as ever. That's Tommy. It's Aaron. It's me. The show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them we told you to call. I'm going to just share the conversation with everybody. that we just had before the podcast started. Tommy asked me the following question. He said, are you getting it all, I'm going to use the word squeamish. I forget what word you use. I use freaked. Are you getting freaked out by all of the people saying that were too negative, that the podcast

is too negative about the Redskins specifically? And I said, absolutely not. Is that what I told you? Yes, you did. Tommy and I, and we've said this going back many years, we're just saying what we feel today. It could change tomorrow, probably not, when it comes to the football team. They're going to have to prove something to me.

They're going to have to actually show me that they've changed because I'm not going to get into comparing 2019 to any season. I'm not about to get overly optimistic just to be once again brought back down to earth by what is a bottom 10% franchise in all of sports right now. Absolutely. But no, I don't get freaked out by that. First of all, Tommy, many, many more people agree with your daily sentiment or mine than disagree. That's basically my feedback tends to be an indication of more people tend to agree.

And I'm talking about the Redskins position in particular, that, you know, it's time to be shown something rather than told something. I don't know why most people don't operate under that sort of in that environment. Well, there's the Kool-Aid drinkers, and there's the ones that haven't drank the Kool-Aid that refused to. And the Kool-Aid drinkers are the ones that, you know, it really doesn't matter. What kind of, you know, what kind of proof you put out there when I wrote my column Friday about the first column I wrote about Trent Williams, and I quoted the coach.

who basically confirmed that there is some kind of medical issue going on between the team and Trent Williams. It may not be the driving issue behind his absence, but there is something there. So there is some validity to the Jason Lock and Forre report about a medical conflict between the team and Trent Williams. The coach told you that on Friday. And people, I get people online who said, what are you talking about? You're making this stuff up. And here's the other thing. I just want to go out of my way to say this.

I've known Jason Lock and Forer for 25 years. Okay. And he has his reputation among Redskins fans as a terrible reporter. And you want to know why? Because he was the first one to sound the alarm about how dysfunctional this team was. Before Jason Reed, before anybody else, it was Jason Lockhart. And those were still in the early days relatively of the Snyder regime. and people just dismissed it as made up negative stuff.

He's one of the top football reporters in the business, and he works for an NFL partner, CBS Sports. Okay, he's not making it up. He's very good at what he does, and your delusion that he's some kind of lousy reporter because of the way he covered the Redskins, look at what's happened to this team since he's left. He's been proven right since he's left every step of the way.

way. I think you do something that I'm not suggesting you're the only person that does it, but I think you tend to react to all of the negative as if it's overwhelmingly majority. I'm not saying overwhelming. That you think it's majority. And I think that more times than not, you hear from people that are negative about what you've said or about you in particular or about a particular show more than you're going to hear from people who really liked it. I mean, You know, do you think at any point in time, you and I have known each other for 10 plus years now, more than that, coming up probably on 15 years? Do you think at any point I've ever been a homer for the team? Like a real, unrealistic, Kool-Aid drinking homer.

Oh, no. Okay. No, absolutely not. Do you know how much I got called a homer back in the day? Like, because I... The Shanahan days in particular. I was always more glass-half-full, optimistic, hopeful. But I always felt like I just said what I felt in the moment.

Like whatever that day or that game or that week produced, we're in the business of reacting. That's what we're in the business of doing. And you just say what you feel. Like I've had people tweet me and say, it's gotten way too negative for me. I'm really sorry, man, because I've been a fan of you guys for years,

but I just can't take it anymore. Okay, don't listen. I can tell you this, Tommy, the negativity towards the team, you know, this is a true, tangible operation in terms of knowing how many people are listening versus radio, which relies on this, you know, ridiculous rating system where basically like 300 people in the entire metro area are measured and somehow that's supposed to be reflective of the market as a whole, our numbers keep going up on this podcast, which is great, and I'm so appreciative. You know that.

Like, I'm still surprised about a lot of this stuff, but I'm appreciative, but the numbers keep going up. So I hope that everybody appreciates Tommy's brutal honesty, and hopefully mine as well. I've known Tommy forever. He is, he does look to, you know, you will compliment, but you, I think you do take more pleasure in really needling something, because I think you write better that way when you're emotionally, like, angered. But that's how you really feel. It's not made up. And by the way, it's based on just how many, it's facts. Like, all the facts back up not being positive about

this team right now. What would you possibly, other than you asked me this a couple of months ago, and I said, well, they got some really good young talent and defense. I'm optimistic about that. If it gets coached the right way, which I'm not optimistic about necessarily. I'm not a big fan of Greg Minusky at this point. Apparently neither were to Redskins this winter. They try to replace him. Yes. But they do have some nice young talent defensively.

It would be great to see this thing grow under a more functional organization. Yes. But like you said before the beginning of last season, when we gave our record prediction, you know, you give your caveat, which is what's the, what's the... Well, it's the Surgeon General's Morning. Yeah, the Surgeon General's right. The Redskins are not a real NFL franchise. They don't operate like an NFL franchise.

And you're never going to have a real NFL franchise with Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder calling the shots. Right. So, you know, last year when we predicted, you know, a chance at contending for a playoff spot, which is what we predicted. Yes, because I- September. I came away impressed with what I saw in training camp and minicamp. But you, we put out the, the surgeon general's warning that, they can fuck it up. And they probably will somehow because why?

Because it usually happens that way. That's the aura of self-destruction. All right, let's get to last night in this NBA game five, which was, honestly, the whole night was bizarre. I don't know. I know you watched the game, which I'm thrilled about. And I don't know if you stayed up and watched all the post game, but the post game alone was like, I saw the Bob Myers.

It was like its own movie after this crazy game. But I want to start with the game. The game, some people have said this has been a poorly played series. It's been too frenetic. There have been a lot of turnover, sloppy play. All of that is true. The intensity, though, of these games and these finals have been, I think, incredibly entertaining to watch. I've enjoyed every single one of these games, I've enjoyed the playoffs after the first round.

I think they've been very compelling. I know that the ratings aren't great, and that's fine. I've enjoyed them. Last night's game, the intensity of that game, the way the Warriors came out. First of all, Durant comes out, and he is on fire. Yeah. He's on fire. By the way, that line, Aaron, you saw that, right?

Golden State went off as a one-point favorite. Yes. When it became clear that Durant was going to play. So Golden State went from being a one-and-a-half two-point dog to a one-point favorite. I think some people, I think it may have come back to a pick-um right before tip. because a friend of mine mentioned that he played it at a pick late. Apparently there's a lot of late action on Toronto. And in some books, I think it might have actually right before Tip moved back to Toronto favorite.

I played Toronto. I played Toronto last night at plus one. So I got it at plus one. I liked them last night with or without Durant. First of all, I was skeptical about what Durant could do health-wise. And even if you were totally healthy, there would be some rust. And I think what we've seen in these five games, the truth of the matter is in these five games. three two series lead, but Toronto has outplayed Golden State 70% of the time minimum.

Yeah. And I just thought that they would be, they would win the series at home. And everybody said, oh, they're not going to end the series in five, but, you know, and they didn't. Golden State won the game. But the way Golden State came out, we'll focus on the game first, and then we'll get to all of the injury stuff with Durant, the post game, the posseuro world with the GM and all of the talking heads.

And I thought, really, if I had just tuned into the post game last, night I would have thought that Durant was barely alive based on the reaction. It was so somber. I've never seen anything like it in my life. Scott did a phenomenal job on Sports Center last night with Steph Curry and with Draymond Green. He and Legler sitting there and even they were taken aback by all that. But we'll get to that in a moment. Durant comes out and he is looking like he's on one of those nights where he's going to go for 40 plus. Yeah. Yeah, he did. He could not miss. You know, a shooter can always shoot it.

I mean, that's one thing that I, you know, shooting a basketball, if you know what, if you're a shooter and you've been a shooter at any level, that never leaves you. Like, it doesn't matter if you're 285 pounds now and used to be 175 and you can barely move. You can still go out there and stroke free throws and stroke jump shots or set shots. And Durant's stroke is just perfect. And he knocked down those shots, and they were as a team, eight for 12 in the first quarter from behind the arc. 11 for 21 from behind the arc in the first half on threes.

Ridiculous shooting. And yet Toronto, who didn't shoot it well, was right there. And I really thought at halftime, I'm like, Toronto is, they're not going to keep shooting it this way. And Toronto will heat up here in the second half, and I think they're going to win the game. I felt good about the bet there. But it was cool to see Durant come out.

He was, you know, this talk of him, you know, all the blame. We'll get to all of that afterwards. He was doing a dance with his teammates, you know, coming out of the tunnel into the arena. He looked healthy and he looked healthy early. I don't know if he should have played or shouldn't have played, but it didn't look like anything had impacted him through those first, you know, it ended up being what? He played two and, you know, two,

quarter, two minutes into the third, right? So just over a half of basketball. What did you think of the early going with Durant? Well, again, I thought that he looked ready to play. Obviously, I thought he looked healthy. And I was thinking he felt for a number of reasons that he had to play. If he was that healthy, he couldn't afford, if he looked like that at the beginning of the game, and his teammates knew he looked like that. He would have a hard time looking them in the eye and say, I'm not playing tonight when you're down three to one. You know, you've got to play if you're Kevin three.

If you're not, then you are fulfilling the narrative that some people have put out there that you're not here. You're someplace else. He showed up. He was ready for that game and he's knocking down shots and he's got 11 points in the first, you know, quarter or quarter and a half or whatever it was, hitting every shot and looking sharp. And they've got a halftime lead.

And look, he felt so good. Remember that one play where he's woofing at Van Vleet? You know, he got fouled, or I'm sorry, he was guarding Van Vleet, fouled Van Vleet, and they went, you know, face to face, and he's woofing it. He was into it. He looked like he was ready. Well, he hadn't played since a lot, like three weeks, right? Exactly.

So I don't, I personally, even though with Durant had it going, I still didn't think, okay, looks like it's KD. I'm talking about it in the moment before the injury. It looks like it's KD. Assuming that they've got him here for the final three games, I still don't think Golden State's going to win the series right now. I don't think that he can lead him to three straight wins against that team with two of them on the road. But he was going to give him a much better chance. And I think one of the things that we can say now definitively, if you didn't think this already, Golden State could win a title without him,

but they've got a much better chance of winning that title with him. Yeah, again, it was the argument. Especially against this opponent. It was the argument not are they better without Tehran. Only a fool would make that argument, but could they win without Tehran? That's something different. All right, taking it chronologically during, you know, as the night went through,

when he gets hurt, first of all, you could tell right away. I didn't know it was the Achilles. necessarily, but you knew he had re-injured the calf and he wasn't coming back. You could just tell by the way he went down and he was grabbing it and then when he got up and limped hard, it was over. And the Toronto fans cheered, you know, when he was hurt. And boy, did they take a pounding by just virtually everybody. And I don't know, Tommy, again, I'm not trying to paint myself as a hard ass because that's not what I am. But I thought that the sensitivity from broadcasters, social media, players, to the Toronto fans reacting in the moment that Durant wasn't going to play and now all of a sudden

we got a much better chance of winning the title tonight, as if it was the first time a crowd's ever booed an injury, I just thought it was way, look, it was classless, it's Bush League, it's all of those things. I'm not saying that it's not that. But the reaction to it, this, God, the sensitivity of so many people, enough. Have you not watched sports before? You know, opponent, home fans will often, the immediate reaction when a great player gets injured is actually the cheer. It's happened before. Do you know that Golden State fans, when Kyrie Irving heard himself in game one of the 2015 NBA finals?

Do you know people put this up there last night, that there was a brief cheer when he got up and hobbled off? Well, again, you know, this is the human nature first response. This is it. I mean, they backed off pretty quick. They did back off really quick. And credit to Lowry and a box and the others that were saying, hey, that's not right. And they responded quickly. You're right.

Well, look, announcers are always going to side with players and, you know, fans are are idiots and players are gods. That's the way to you know. One of the announcers is a. a former player and the other one's a former coach. So, I mean, that's always going to be their reaction. But I'm with you on this. I mean, I can't think of too many other arenas in the country or stadiums in the country

where if that didn't happen in a playoff finals, in a World Series finals, in an NFL championship game, where the first reaction that the guy wasn't getting up to play again would be joy. I don't know how many arenas or stadiums are going to do that or which. fan bases are and which aren't. We know Philadelphia will. I mean, Michael Irvin was wheeled off the field at the vet on a stretcher, and they were, it was a standing ovation cheering wildly, and it looked like he had a broken neck in the moment. They were not cheering for a torn Achilles heel. They were cheering because the superstar player who had been killing them wasn't going to play

the rest of the game. I just, it's, maybe it's just an old. school of you, but the, I'm not debating the fact that it's classless in Bush League to cheer and injury. Look, I've been in my own home with my own boys watching a game, one of our favorite teams, and somebody gets hurt on the other team, and one of the boys was young at the time and got up, it's like, yeah, cheering. And I'm like, don't do that. That's not, you don't cheer for somebody to be injured, but it's a normal reaction. Yes. But you want them to know also that It's also not a classy reaction. Right.

You know, leave that up to some of the other people in the crowd. Now, I think part of the pushback was because the narrative was, has been how great these Toronto fans are. And I think people have gotten tired of hearing that. Plus, there's the whole Canadian syndrome. That might be. That might be it. That Canadians are nice. Yeah, that might be it.

And, you know, people get tired of hearing about how nice and Canadians are. You see how nice they are? Look what they did. look, I mean, that immediately... Personally, Canadians are nice. I'm sorry. They are nice. Yes. The immediate reaction was not out of the

ordinary. It's happened many times in the past. And then to your point, they recovered quickly and they were chanting KD as he was walking off the floor. They responded quickly. There's a lot of places in this country that wouldn't us. Where they would have booted them right out the door. But just

the reaction, the incredible hypersensitivity to anything that is not, you know, deemed to be good sportsmanship. I'm all for good sportsmanship. I recognize it as classless. It's the reaction that this is like the first time people have seen this and how horrible it is. I really do think it was the, it's because it's a Canadian crowd.

It could be like we, I don't think we talked about this because I think this happened maybe, I forget when it happened. Did we talk about the minority owner for the Warriors who pushed? No, it happened after we. after you and I were done on Thursday. So it wasn't the right thing to do. It was a Bush League thing to do. He should certainly be fined,

but $500,000 in a year ban? Kevin, he should... My God. Kevin, he should have had to sold his shares. Oh, come on, Tommy. He's an owner. Tommy. He's an owner. Tommy.

He is an owner. If you force him to sell his shares, where do you go, the Clippers owner, who legitimately was forced to sell the team because it's something truly horrible. He was the majority owner. This guy is a passenger. This guy is a passenger.

He should have been, you can't let him. I wouldn't ban him from the arena, but I won't want, if I'm the owner of the team, I want him out. What if it had been just a normal fan and not a minority owner?

Which of the penalty have been? I'm not saying that they shouldn't be different. I agree that because he's an owner, a minority owner, that's a lifetime ban from the arena. Oh, my God. Where do you go if he actually, you can't put your hands.

You can't put your hands on a player. And he did barely. I mean, it was not what we would call a significant shove. He wasn't protecting himself. He was an asshole. He was a first-rate a hole. I'm not suggesting he wasn't. He's got to go situation.

Look, I understand that the precedent should be set, that he needs to be, that there needs to, he needs to be penalized for it. It's just like, but where do we go when it's much worse? You know, a one-year ban in $500,000. Okay, whatever. Anyway, by the way, I mean, you know, they're responding to the players. I know, it's a players league. Of course it is.

It's a players league. And we saw the players outraged on social media last night that the Toronto fans were cheering KD's injury. Maybe they're going to ban the Toronto fans. By the way, did you notice that when KD went back to the locker room that Curry and Igadala were the ones helping him back in the locker room? And Mark Jackson made a big deal about that on the broadcast. He did. Yes. I can't imagine.

I will just tell you that if I were the coach, there is no chance in hell that two of my starting players are leaving my bench at any point during the game. Seriously, this is an elimination game. Now, I think they were both out of the game at that time. I think that was their normal rest there

at the beginning of the second quarter. It probably was. Third quarter. Third quarter. Yeah. Was it their normal rest period? I don't know if it was. The bottom line is you got end of the bench players that could have helped him,

trainers that could have helped them. Two of my best players aren't going to be out of the arena or, you know, in another part of the arena while the game's going on. You know what? That's assuming you as the coach can tell two of your best players what to do. You know, that's a big assumption. It's true. I mean, because it really is a players league.

Yes. It's unbelievable to me. That's a major league of something. that you can tell that you can tell Steph Curry and who else who else was carrying him? Igadala. You can tell those guys what to do. It happened in the second quarter. I mean, I keep thinking the second half.

It happened in the second quarter because it was very interesting because you mentioned Mark Jackson. They had a shot of Boogie Cousins on the bench when Bogot and Looney came in in the second quarter and Cousins wasn't coming in. The plan was not to play Boogie Cousins last night. Oh, and I heard Mark Jackson. He said, he said, he's got to stay ready, he's got to be focused the whole thing. First of all, Boogie Cousins is over there saying, you kidding me? Looney and Bogot? Yeah.

But when he came in, he was incredible. Yeah, he was. He scored, he had Tommy, and he came in off the bench in the second quarter. All right. Nine points, six rebounds, and assist a steal in six minutes. I know. He played six minutes in the first half, had nine points, six rebounds, an assist, and a steal. It was really an incredible push.

And I was actually, you know, I know everybody felt like Durant went out and then, you know, they're deflated and it's not going to happen and Toronto's going to end the series. But I thought Boogie Cousins said, not tonight. We're staying in this game. We're going to keep this lead. And by the way, Curry went off. He had 23 in the first half. Look, the thing with Boogie Cousins, and I said this before, Golden State figured out the perfect way to use Boogie Cousins. Think of a championship as a full course meal.

Booky Cousins is a condiment. Okay? In other words, you don't have to deal with him throughout the whole season because he's hurt. And then you use him here and there when you need him in the playoffs. But he's Chick-fil-A sauce. I mean, but he's a really, really tasty condiment. that, but, but you can't survive on that sauce. If you eat too much of that sauce, you're going to get sick.

Well, he didn't play well in the previous game. He's so talented, though. I know, and that's what makes him such a loser. But the other, well, but the other part of that, too, and I'm surprised that you, and you don't watch enough of it to really appreciate because you, the big man's been taken out of the game pretty much. He's got great big man moves, and he can stretch the floor shooting the three, you know, which he did last night.

but he's got great hands and great feet for a big guy. And he's going to go down as an underachiever throughout his whole career. Just again, trying to take this night chronologically, Draymond Green got hit with a tech after his third foul, which was a Bush League call. Terrible call. And that's his sixth technical, the next one he gets suspended. But what was really surprising in the moment was Steve Kerr left him in the game with three fouls.

And I think still five or six minutes left in the first. half. I was shocked at that because especially with a guy like that, you got to have a lot of trust in that guy who flies off the handle all the time to not get booted from the game. And by the way, the next game, if there is one. Yeah. To leave him in there when he is at his most emotional, he's emotionally unstable in that moment. That's a good point.

And Kerr left him in there. I'd be real curious to hear what Kerr would have to say about that. If he's worried that he'd go off even more if he took him out. Yeah, maybe. Well, you know what? Maybe the player said I'm not coming out. You may be. Maybe.

The first half of that game, too, God, did the refs blow the whistle? It was, there were 28 fouls called in the first half and 34 free throws attempted in the first half of that game. But then we get to the second half and all of the drama, and this is before the post game even happens. the Warriors continue to stay red hot from behind the arc. I mean, this was a shooting display that you hate, but they ended up 20 of 42, 47.6% from behind the ark, and for much of the night, they were over 50%. And then they got cold there in the fourth quarter

when Toronto took the lead and we'll get to the Kauai run in a moment. But they're knocking down threes from everywhere. Curry and Thompson and, and Draymond Green hit some big threes in the game. And I still have this sense watching the game in the second half that Toronto's going to figure it out. It's going to end tonight, that they're going to wear Golden State out. But, you know, they extended that lead to 14. And that lead went to 14. And then the Kauai stretch of 10 points in a minute 45 on, what was it? It was four straight possessions to give them a six-point lead with three minutes and five seconds left. It was, it was. It was.

was like the adult coming in to, you know, into the game and just saying, hey, kids, this is how we're going to do it. We're not going back to Oakland. I don't want another long flight. And the series was over. And Nick Nurse kept it alive for Golden State. The timeout. Kauai Leonard's stretch, first of all, is a rebound, an in-transition three, then he gets a two, then he shoots a three over cousins with the shot clock winding down, then another two. They are up The crowd is in a frenzy. And in that moment, if you're watching this game, did anybody think Golden State had any chance of winning the game at that moment?

No. It felt like a 15-point lead. The crowd's delirious. By the way, when he hit that shot to give him the 103-97 lead, I know that Golden State only had one timeout left. I was shocked that Kerr didn't call a timeout. The momentum had totally been taken over by Kauai Leonard. And the Raptors were basically,

within a whisker of icing this thing. It was over, and Kerr said, let's play. And they missed another shot. And now Toronto's got the ball up six, frenzied atmosphere, three minutes, five seconds left, and Nick Nurse calls a timeout. Why? By the way, I want to make this really clear

because all morning long and all post-game, people have been talking about Nick Nurse's timeout with three minutes and five seconds left. Do you know that he didn't call one timeout? He called two timeouts. He called two timeouts back to back. He did? Two.

Wasn't wanting him a TV timeout? No, there's no TV timeout when you get to that point. It's only timeouts. He called two timeouts. Nobody seems to know this, and I didn't know it in the moment. He mentioned it in his explanation after the game. And then, by the way, you can see it in the in the, box score and the play by play.

And then somebody on NBA TV mentioned it last night. But all morning long, all last night, you know, I'm watching, uh, what's, get, uh, get up in the morning with Greenberg. Greenberg's talking about the timeout. So you're the guy watching get up. I guess I am. It's actually much better now than it used to be. Um, but the, uh, it was two timeouts.

He called two. Why did he call him? Because do we have that explanation from here? Listen to this. Before you play it, I was sitting there watching the post game. I'm like, when is Nick Nurse going to be asked this question? And I'm watching it on NBA TV. And then Scott had it. I'm going back and forth. And Scott ended up playing it later in SportsCenter. And what I was expecting him to say was, look, my guys were gassed. They were really tired. Kauai actually wanted a timeout or Kyle wanted a time out. And I just felt like, you know, I'd rather have a really good set play for this position. possession to go up bait, something like that, anything. It wouldn't have been the right description, but he knows his team much better than we do.

But we didn't get that. We got this. I wanted to know the thought process behind calling the timeout when we were making a run. We were making. While the rappers were making their run. Those two we took a three-minute mark. Yeah, well, we had two free ones that you lose under the three-minute mark. And we just came across and just decided to give those guys a rest.

and we had back-to-back ones there that we would have lost under the three-minute mark and just thought we could use the extra energy push. So let me explain, because most of you don't know the NBA rules, when you go below three minutes in the fourth quarter, you can only have two timeouts. They had four at the 305 minute mark. So he used two of them as to not lose them.

So in other words, this is like a government agency at the end of its fiscal year when it's got a surplus of, let's say, $50,000 in its budget, and they realize if they don't spend it, they're going to lose it. It's our favorite show, the office. Yes. When they've got the surplus, which, by the way, Oscar has a real difficult time explaining to Mike. It's like a lemonade stand.

Yeah, explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old. Explain it to me like I'm a three-year-old. And then it's the choice between the printer, the new printer, which, you know, clearly, you know, everybody wants, and the new chair and a new chair. And that's, he, he didn't want to waste these timeouts. This is the worst explanation. It's terrible. By the way, he confirmed, as I mentioned, that it was two timeouts because he had four and he can only take two with them in the final three minutes.

So, oh my God, we don't want to waste these. And by calling two timeouts, he basically, Tommy, in the moment, the moment. that they had in that moment, he strangled the life out of it. Yes, he did. It was, it was, I, I heard, it was a terrible decision. I heard Barclay this morning on with Damon Jones and Barclay's like, if you think, if you, if you think that that timeout was a bad timeout, you don't know anything about basketball. And I love Chuck. I love Barclay. And Damon Jones goes, I played in the league a little bit. I know a little bit about that. Chuck, he, they, they they basically gave the Warriors a chance to,

to realize that their season was basically over, and they revived it. He revived it. That game was over, Tommy. It felt like a 12-point lead. If Kauai's tired, if they're tired, give the ball to Van Vleet, run a play for Gasol or a Baca or Laueri. Lerry played great. Let me play. You can't.

You cannot stop that momentum. There's three minutes left in a finals clinching game. there's no tired there's no tired did kawai look tired I mean he may have been tired he may have been by the way Kauai always looks tired

but there is hobbled right now he's hurt there is no tired in that situation he has just scored 10 straight points the place is going crazy golden state is deflated the game is basically over the season is over

even if you miss there because you're tired Golden State is more tired and more deflated and the place is going nuts and you don't call one time out you give them basically I think it was eight minutes to get it together and by the way in those seven to eight minutes whatever it was Kerr called two excellent plays

that Golden State ran for their next two possessions that got them the open threes that got them the threes that got them right back to a tie game and meantime over the final three minutes and five seconds, one for six, Toronto was, and they scored two points. Now, I give, part of that, I mean, yeah, the timeout was a terrible call, and I'll grant you all that. But, I mean, I give Golden State's defense a lot of credit. I mean, they, they're a better defensive team than people give them credit for.

Not without Durant. Durant's, they're, Durant's a really good defender. I know, but I thought they played pretty good defense at the end of the game last night. His explanation is mind-boggling. It really is. I mean, but I mean, what about the way the game ended? One other quick thing on this. If he's protecting Kauai Leonard, who asked for the timeout, I went back and watched it. Kauai did not ask for a timeout unless we missed it on his run up the floor.

Now, who had the ball? Was it Van Gogh's got it? Toronto's got it. No, who at which? Lowry's got it. Lowry's got the ball. Okay. All right.

And all of a sudden, you just see them stop and Larry said, ask for a timeout. And I just remember thinking, what, Kerr should have called the timeout after. after the last Leonard's shot, and he didn't, which is fine. He only had one left, and he trusts his players, whatever. But Nick Nurse took all of the momentum and basically a 95% chance of sealing the deal and winning the title and gave Golden State life in that moment. What was your question? The final shot.

Kauai made the right play. Of course he did. He had two guys on him. They ran the double at him, and because the clock was down at that point to six or seven seconds, You know, Kauai, when you watch him, first of all, I, you know, before that 10-0 run, that was the worst offensive night for him of these, certainly of the last two rounds. I don't remember if he had a terrible outing in that first round or early in the Philadelphia series. But he was off last night. And by the way, he looked slow for much of the night before he just took it over, before, you know, he basically said, we're not, we're not going back to Oakland.

And he had it basically done. He had it done, and his coach gave it back to, gave Golden State the chance. I was surprised he didn't, look, he took two timeouts when he shouldn't have, and I thought they should have figured out a way there by calling a timeout to get a better shot. Now, he trusted his players. They ended up getting a shot that, you know, Draymond Green makes a great play on. He got a fingertip on that shot. That was a block shot, a tip shot that made it, you know, bounce, that made it, you know,

land on the side of the backboard. But I thought Leonard made the right play. If he had had more time, Tommy, if you've been watching him, he'll back up and let that double fall off or make it extend out further. But there wasn't enough time for that. But there wasn't enough time for that. He had to make that quick pass to Van Vleet. Van Vleet made the pass to Lowry. The interesting thing is, you know, back to what you've always complained about, the play there would have been Gasol flashing right to the middle for a pass to get the ball to Gasol against Green

and then Green couldn't cover two guys. Green actually was covering almost Lowry and Gasol simultaneously because they were not spaced well and I didn't have a problem with it. You know, it's always that argument, oh, you know, Michael would have never given it up. Well, he did. He did. Twice.

You know, the Paxon and to Kerr. And I thought Kauai made the right play. Yeah. I thought Golden State won in part because I thought they played really good defense down the stretch. Well, they're just so, Thompson and Curry, you know, those three threes. I mean, they went for three straight threes on two beautifully set up plays. And then the last one off of the ball reversal, you know, Igadala got it down low and then kicked it out and the ball reversed. It was a great pass from Draymond.

And then Leonard, you know, ran at him, flew by him. and he knocked down that three to give him the three-point lead. But, I mean, they're just so good, Curry and Thompson. They're just so good. And here's the thing about this series. I think Toronto's going to win the series. You know, I think they've been the better team. But it's not crazy to think that Curry and Thompson could, you know,

shoot 50% from behind the arc in two straight games. No, it's not. Absolutely. They can still win it. But I got to tell you, you know, Last night, for one thing, last night earlier in the night, we went to see Godzilla. So it was a big night for me, you know? So Godzilla and then back for the game?

Yeah, then we came back, and my wife is watching the game with me for a while. Aaron saw it. I did see Godzilla this weekend. Did you? Yeah. Did you like it? No. No?

It's lots of monster on monster crime. It wasn't much monster. Most of the monster of monster crime was in the background with humans running around. They thought we cared about the humans. We don't care about the humans in Godzilla. I disagree. I thought it was a lot of monster on monster crime. I wouldn't mind that if it was a little more in the light rather than the dark all the time.

But that's an old guy complaint. But the point is I'm watching the game with my wife. And every two minutes, I'm yelling at her. You see, that's why the game stinks now. That's why it stinks now. Years ago, that ball would have been under the basket, not 25 feet away. I'm screaming at her like every two or three minutes. Finally, she gave up and went to bed.

Finally, she's like, why are you yelling at me? I mean, it's not even something that you usually yell at me. But look, you're right. I'm not counting Golden State out of the series. I think Toronto is going to win it. But I mean. If they don't win it, you know, look, I am definitely, I definitely think Nick Nurse really made a big mistake last night in the moment.

But I also recognize that, you know, he knows his. team. He's got a feel for his team. Doris Burke explained with Scott. You know, he's done some unconventional stuff because he's always got good feel in the moment. That's a terrible explanation. Terrible explanation as to what happened. And it just doesn't make any sense because, you know, we all know what sports momentum is. That place was shaking after that Kauai Leonard run. Why would you break that up? Why would you ever do that? But anyway, um, So Tommy, you know, there were several things that happened after the game. First of all, on the Durant injury.

I don't know. Actually, let's get to the GM because it's better to play the GM Bob Myers. Did you watch this live or not? No, I didn't watch this live. I watched it afterwards. It was the weirdest thing that I can remember here recently. I mean, I'm sure somebody will give me another example of a post-game interoperable. view that you're just like, whoa, I'm sitting there, Bob Myers, Kerr said, you know, Bob Myers

or general manager is going to comment about the Drant injury. And there he comes. He comes up and he's fiddling with the microphone and you can see he's very emotional and he's having a difficult time sort of getting his voice ready. I thought actually he may have been super nervous, you know, addressing this world media for the NBA finals. It's not what he's used to doing is the general manager after a game. And then, you know, you get this, this emotional tears. I mean, he's breaking up as he's telling you about KD. Here it is. Kevin had a, it's an Achilles injury. I don't know the extent of it. He'll have an MRI tomorrow. Prior to coming back, He went through four weeks with our medical team.

And it was thorough and it was experts and multiple MRIs and multiple doctors. And we felt good about the process. He was cleared to play tonight. That was a collaborative decision. I don't believe there's anybody to blame. But I understand this world. and if you have to, you can blame me. I run our basketball operations department.

He felt pretty sorry for himself, didn't they? Tommy, this was odd. I didn't know what to make of it. I'm watching this, and my first reaction was, this is not the guy, or this is not the tone that you want. And it was interesting because I think that people were very mixed in their reviews of what they were watching. and I have great empathy, and I have no doubt that he's very close with Kevin Durant.

But you're there to tell us about what the injury is, why it happened, what the prognosis is, and let's move on. We just watched one of the more stunning comebacks and turnarounds in the final three minutes. And we've got the NBA finals, we've got a game six. And I know that Durant injury is just as big. But I'm sitting there watching this, and I'm like, is this guilt? Yeah. Is this, is he, is, is this, are these, are these tears for Kevin Duran? Or are these tears for me?

Because I'm feeling pretty guilty. And I think, I think that's it because he basically sacrificed himself on the altar up there where he said, if you're looking, whenever somebody says, if you're looking to blame somebody, blame me. Yeah. That's because they're guilty. I, you know, it was a weird thing when you're watching it live. My first reaction was, my God, they, he shouldn't have played tonight. and they knew it. Like he's guilty.

Did they play him when they shouldn't have played him? Did they force him back? Remember, we've heard, and a lot of this I think is for competitive reasons, to just throw out there that Durant might be ready. You know, you make Toronto prepare. But it also, I guess, some people feel it put the onus on Durant because it pressured him into, you know, people are saying, well, if there was a chance he could have played in game three,

why didn't he? If there was a chance he could have played in game four, Why didn't he? I mean, they were down 2-1 going into that game. Well, because he clearly wasn't ready, but maybe he did come back too early. Maybe this was guilt. Or maybe this was just over the top.

Typical, you know, incredible this day and age we're living in where it's just like, if someone had asked this guy, because he took questions, if someone had asked him, you know, your emotion associated with this, this tone is really startling. Is this injury life-threatening? I wouldn't have been shocked if somebody had asked him that.

Because I'm sitting there thinking, did he die? Is he alive? I mean, we just saw him holding his leg. It's an Achilles or it's a re-injury of the calf. I mean, and then Steph Curry goes on with Scott. Tommy, he was so somber. It was like, it was unbelievable how sad he was. He had just hit a monster shot.

after shot in an incredible comeback. That game was over with three minutes to go or felt like it was over. They're alive. They're going back home in the NBA finals. And all he could talk about was his brother. You see, I get that. I get it more from the player. I get that.

I mean, he's won NBA championships, okay? I mean, this is not new territory for Steph Curry. And I'm not saying, you know, it's not that special anymore. But the moment of being in a comeback game, and winning the game like that, I don't think it's going to dominate Steph Curry's feelings as much as he probably felt for a player that I'm going to assume that they're friends and he likes him who basically just saw whatever plans he had go down on the court.

So I have a problem with Curry's reaction. I don't, look, it's the degree of his reaction. It was the incredible, like the seriousness of the tone. It was funeral-esque. It was wake. It was like somebody had just walked out of the wake of a really good friend. It really was. It was dark.

It was super dark as you're watching this. His interview with Scott, I don't know about his press conference, but his interview with Scott so much so that Scott pressed him on it. He's like, man, what I'm feeling here is just this incredible, you know, heartfelt that you guys are completely wrecked over this. And they were. So I understand Steph and Clay, and they've done, they did it when he got hurt in the Houston game. You know, that's our brother. That's our guy. We need him. We love him. All of that's fine. But it was, I was blown away watching Curry with with Scott last night thinking, and maybe you're right, maybe the title, winning another title,

you know, it's gotten old and it's not, you know, this, you know, you know, you know, you know, players tend to do this. Boogie Cousins did it last night, you know, when he was talking about the crowd booing the injury. They get into this, you know, basketball is basketball, but life is life. It's so much more important. Kevin's injury is this is a real life thing.

This is so much more important to us. Well, I think for a guy like Curry, the bigger moment was Durant going, getting hurt. I think it was. For a guy like Curry, the bigger, the bigger moment, One of his teammates getting hurt in a career affecting injury, not ending, but affecting, because it's going to affect his career, rather than winning game five of an NBA finals, I think the injury is the bigger moment for Curry.

I mean, watching him, it was grim. It was a grim locker room. I mean, they all said it last night. They all came on with Scott last night. Doris did. Rachel did. What's his face? Windhorst.

Windhorst said last night changed the NBA. Now, I think he was talking more about the free agency thing afterwards. And he's right. And then Jay Williams this morning. Jay Williams was with Durant in the locker room. He said, the density, I'm going to quote, the density of the air was so thick, it made it difficult to breathe.

I'm like, Durant's injury, it's a serious injury. If he ruptured that Achilles, if we find that out today, he may never be the same. I understand that. I understand it's a serious injury. I also just watched an incredible basketball game. There were two things going on simultaneously,

and the win and the way they won the game was completely ignored. And the focus was on Durant. By the way, I'm not suggesting it's right or wrong. I just was surprised by it. That's all. I get that. I mean, again, one is something that, you know, they've experienced before. The other is a shock titter system.

Right. And I think the shock was the one that dominated their feelings and emotions. What was going on with the head of basketball operations, who knows? That was something seemed completely different. I mean, you got to wonder, because if I read correctly, when Kerr was asked about playing Durant, he said you'll have to ask Myers. Yes.

Well, look, one of the things that Doris Burke reported before the game began, Tommy, was that he was not at risk for a more serious injury. She used the word he was at risk for maybe a tweak, quote, tweak of the injury, close quote. So, you know, Bob Myers, part of that is, you know, yeah, we were assured that he couldn't do this. Well, how can you actually be assured that he can't? tear his Achilles. Even, I mean, if you had been completely healthy, there's a chance he could rupture as Achilles. Basketball players, well, the Achilles injury is just an interesting injury overall, and I was reading about it last night, and I'm going to pull it up here for a second,

about just, this was an article written after Boogie Cousins, Tours Ackillies. So a year ago, whenever that was. Well, Redskins fans are very familiar with torn Achilles. They've seen DeAngelo Hall. He did it twice. They've seen June. Junior Galette do it. Junior Galette did it. Dee Hall did it twice, including once in his own home. Achilles injuries affect players over 30 the worst, you know, often shortening their careers to just another season or two. Achilles injuries aren't career shortening for players under 30 years old. So, you know, Durant is sitting there, you know, right at the 30-year-old mark. Right. So I, and I mean, look, if this really does end his career or shortens his career or really impacts his career. Good, you know, good for them for all recognizing it in the moment and

taking that much more seriously. I was just surprised. I thought the whole post game last night was odd in watching it. And I thought, by the way, Scott did, and he's obviously, you know, been one of my closest friends for years. And I'm a big fan. I'm not objective, but I thought he did a phenomenal job last night because it was a weird, he had Legler on the set with him, and they're watching this Bob Myers thing live. And then they've got, you know, Dremont. on and then they've got Steph on and and Steph you know again it's like you're sitting there watching it

and it's dark like he's so so he's been so impacted by the loss of Durant and it was just it was it was weird the whole thing I get everything except Bob Myers so I mean I understand the players I hear you had

a player who had been waiting to get back on the court for weeks who you read that people were saying that, you know, and I think they were right when they were saying this, if the Warriors go on to win without Kevin Durant on the court, it would be a blow to his legacy. I mean, because basically you're saying that they didn't need him to win a championship.

So there was a lot of negative stuff out there about Duran, and the players probably consumed that, and they knew that, and to have the guy get hurt basically the same night he came back. It was the immediacy of it. It was like, it was like, you know, it wasn't like getting hurt in the next series. Yeah. He got hurt the very same night he came back. I know.

It's, you're right about that. That the discussion, and we had the discussion about, you know, Durant, his worst nightmare. And I do believe it to be true. You know, I'm sure KD's a great young guy. And everybody that's his teammate, his teammates love them, the people that work in the organization, love them. And I know, and I've, I've. heard that he's been through a lot, you know, personally with family and stuff in the last few years. I mean, I think, you know, part of that, we didn't play the part of Bob Myers where he got really

emotional talking about what a great kid, Durant is, and how they love him, and he's been through a lot and all of this. But, but he is sensitive. There's no doubt that he's very, very sensitive to criticism. I mean, the dude created burner accounts. Yes. You know, fake Twitter accounts to respond to people who were being critical of him on his Twitter account. I mean, that's, it's about as sensitive as it gets. But I just thought that, but the one thing, so the criticism's been there. But at the same time, Tommy, you know, a lot of people have also said, Kevin Durant proved through the first half of these playoffs, he's the best player in the world. Like, he's the best player in our game today. It's not been like Kevin Durant stinks. It's never been that. So I do

think that again, and I think it's typical of that generation, they tend to take these slights in a way in which maybe previous generations didn't, and they build them into something that sometimes they don't even really resemble, because just as many people have been talking about Kevin Durant proving in this postseason before he got hurt in the Houston series as one of the greatest of all time and one of the best playoff runs before he got hurt against Houston. I mean, the dude was averaging 30-something a game, you know, before he got hurt in the Houston series. And it's clear that from a talent standpoint, he's one of the best ever. Right.

He is. But, you know, at the same time, people were saying, well, you know, he was playing tag-along for the last two years. Well, that's not necessarily true either. But it's also true that Golden State has won a title without him. Yes. And potentially you're going to win another one with, sort of without him, because he did play in the first two series. that was a lot of basketball that we just did. Just real quickly, your gut on how this series plays out with game six Thursday night in Oakland,

back at Oracle, so Oracle gets another game, the last game, it will be truly the last game. What happens? I think we're going to see game seven. I think Golden State's going to win game six. I think we're going to go back for game seven in Toronto. It would be the dream for this NBA season because they probably need the additional games given the ratings. Well, you know what? I bet you the ratings take a jump because of the Durant injury.

Here's one. Because I'm betting the Durant injury finds its way onto mainstream news. Goes beyond sports. It's a today's show topic. It was a today's show topic. There you go. It was a today show. So all of a sudden, you've got the sad story.

And I'm not making fun of it. I'm just saying you're going to have a sad story out there about Kevin Duran that's going to intrigue people who might not have been intrigued before. I will, I'll echo your prediction. I don't know. Let me just say this. I'm going to take Toronto plus the three on Thursday. Really?

I've taken them, I took them in the first. I bet Toronto in every single game in the series. And before the series started, I picked Golden State. But every night, you know, they've been pretty much the anti-piport. public side. The Raptors have been. And so I am, last night pushed. I'm three one and one betting Toronto in this series

and I think I'm going to take them in game six plus the three. I think they can win it. You know what? I'll say Toronto wins it on Thursday night. That's my prediction. Three one and one. Don't you ever lose, Kevin? Don't you ever lose? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. We all lose.

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The Nats won again last night. You said you watched the ninth inning. They continue to roll. This is getting impressive now. They've got two teams in front of them, three in front of them technically, because the Mets are still in front of them. They're six back,

but man, have they gotten hot offensively? Yeah, they have. They're cranking the ball offensively. Brian Dozier has really gotten real hot of late and is on the pace to basically a 30 home run season for him. and look at and I'm almost feeling secure enough

about Annabelle Sanchez who pitched very well again last night his second straight outing, actually third street good outing to basically say, you see I told you I mean because I came I left spring training saying that this guy was going to be a surprise player for Nationals fans now he may be limited to five or six innings when he does it

but he's a fourth starter. You're not expecting much more out of a fourth starter. And the big news was Trevor Rosenthal pitched. Yeah, he pitched. He pitched a ninth inning. I think he got three outs, which was good for him, and gave up maybe a hit. Did he give a hit? He gave up a walk.

A walked. He walked the first guy, and you could see the faces in the dugout when he walked the first guy. It was like, oh, my gosh, you know. But I mean, with the lead they had, there was no one up in the bullpen. They were going to sink or swim with him, whatever it was. Then he got a double play. Trey Turner picked up a pretty good double play for him that gave him two outs. He eliminated the base runner.

And I forget what the third out was. But it was a big moment. I'm still not sure that they feel good about putting him in the eighth inning, though, which is the whole point at this point. What do you think of Howie Kendrick? This guy is hitting, I think he's hitting now 333 for. the year, but it's like close to 400 over the last like, you know,

15, 20 games, something like that. All he does is seem to produce when he's in there. Like it's almost, I don't know how they can keep him out of the lineup, and they haven't now for, you know, I don't know how many days in a row. But this guy is, first, offensively, the Nats

have really come to life. Trey Turner. You mentioned Dozier, you know, but Kendrick's sort of, you know, when they weren't hitting, he was hitting. Yeah. Well, he's one of those. professional hitter guys. It's a professional hitter. Yeah, and you're going to see a lot more of them because apparently Matt Adams hurt himself and maybe day-to-day or may wind up on the injured list at this point.

So you're going to see a lot more Kendrick at first base for the immediate future. God only knows what's happening with Ryan Zimmerman. Supposedly he's resuming finally baseball activities, but his... Well, they'll need him if Adams is out. Yeah, yeah, they will. But they can play parra there, right? Right. Yeah, they can play Parra and Kendricks,

but they suffer defensively at first base without Ryan Zererman. But yeah, he's just professional hitter. What you worry about is over the course of a year, there's some guy, and I don't know if Howie Kendrick at this point of his career is one of these guys. There's some guys who, if you keep putting them out there, they get exposed. He probably isn't one of those guys. But there's a reason why some guys are platoon players. And some guys aren't.

And that's usually the case. They're lucky to have him. That's one of the great moves that Mike Rizzo made a couple years ago was signing him as a free agent. And, but still, you know, I mean, the first two games, you know, they wanted to win in the last two in San Diego. But they should have won the first two, you know. And the should have wons become more important when you're trying to gain ground. I mean, it's almost a reminder every time they lose a game

that they had no business losing that, you know, they have to do so much to overcome two teams in front of them. Well, three teams technically, but the Braves and the Phillies at this point. And next week, when they come home, they got the Phillies for four

and the Braves for three. I love the way you described Howie Kendrick is a professional hitter. in the early portion, for me, the analogy will be a basketball one. When Lou Williams was going off for the clippers against the Warriors, they won two games in that series, he was just referred, like Barclay came on and just said, you know what Lou Williams is? Lou Williams is a professional score.

That's what he does, and that's what he does. Like, he just knows how to score. Kendrick knows how to hit. Yeah. There was this, another local story, and we'll get to Tommy's feelings of, on Bruce Allen speaking on Friday. I do want to get to your thoughts on that because, I mean, hell, we haven't talked about Trump Williams today.

It's been a week straight. But Ben Standig, our good friend at NBC Sports Washington, essentially reported the other day that the wizards are interested in Missai Ujiri, the Toronto GM, as a potential, you know, GM and possible partial owner in the franchise. And this may be what Ted's waiting on. Maybe. Is waiting for these finals to end. You know what?

In a way, it better be. In a way, it better be. Yeah, I mean, so I mentioned this before. I know this for a fact that his wife, you know, not that this is hard to find out, but his wife is from here. She grew up in Prince George's County, and they were looking at homes here, you know, two years ago. But not because he was on the verge of moving here, but because they wanted a home here in Washington, too, when they came to see her family, presumably. So this would be interesting. I mean, this guy did a hell of a job.

I mean, he made an incredible trade. He took a gamble. The gambles paid off with Kauai Leonard in this one season, especially if they win it, but they got to the NBA finals for the first time in franchise history. You know, there have been reports here recently that Kauai Leonard's looked at property in Toronto. So maybe he will do a one-year deal and stay.

But if Ted can lure him to Washington, Michael Jordan style. You know, he's not Michael Jordan. He's not going to come with that brand. But in the, you know, in the environment of or in the business structure of, you know, team president, GM, and partial owner. They give him equity. I mean, that's what Abe did with Michael.

He gave him equity in the company in the organization. But he had, you know what? Then he had to give it up when he became a player. He did. And then he got back to work by Dave. Holy mackerel. So that's being reported by Ben standing NBC Sports Washington as the direction that the Wizards may be waiting to go in. But they got to wait for these finals stand.

Let me tell you something. Just in case, just Wizards fans beware, this guy, what's his name? Masayu Jiri. He's the GM of Toronto. I know who he is. I found this in doing some research about him. He's a big Drake fan. In fact, he is part of the momentum behind Drake being such a, quote, super fan in Toronto.

Quote, when they announced some kind of relationship, actual business relationship with Drake as an ambassador, we can't do it any better than the King of Toronto, said of Drake. To have someone special like this for us, I think is huge. We appreciate all the support, all the support from the fans. So he's a big Drake guy. So what are you suggesting? Drake's going to end up being in a wizard's games? I'm just saying, be prepared for a wizard's version of Drake.

He can't get any closer to the action than the owner is. I would hope that Ted's waiting for something like this. It'd be pretty pathetic if he wasn't. Right. I mean, because he got so disrespected by the Denver guy. Tim Connolly. You know, who basically, you know, according to the reports, they put the hard press on, although they gave him a pathetic offer. And Conley just referred to the as a conversation.

Yeah, we had a conversation. I mean, how dismissive was that? Yeah, I mean, look, in their efforts to attract people here over the years. To the best job in sports, by the way. Be one of the best jobs in sports. Yeah, Ted Leone's the best job in sports. It's not, though. All right. I've spent, you know, multiple days. You were here Thursday, so we obviously spent a lot of time talking about Trent Williams, but I was curious as to what you thought about Bruce Allen's short, brief comments to J.P. Finley on Friday.

Well, I thought it was real interesting that what he said, basically, I know the truth. Because like I pointed out in my column, the truth is usually pretty hard for Bruce Allen to find. Sort of like winning football. games. It's a difficult test for Bruce Allen. And that would have come as a surprise to the 25 agents who were polled last year by USA Today, who named him the least trustworthy executive in the NFL. I think they would have been surprised too that Bruce Allen somehow came across the truth. He didn't say what that truth is. Look, here's the bottom line on Trent Williams. we are we're seven days into the Jason Lock and four initial report about Trent staying away from minicamp because of a conflict over his medical treatment seven days into it and not one word not one word from Trent Williams not one word from his agent to to basically dismiss this report and not one word from the Redskins to shoot it down either

You know, I was thinking about this, and Neil and Rockville, the legal contributor to many shows in town, suggested that that could be HIPAA related, that the Redskins can't say anything about his medical condition because of the privacy laws. He said it may be one of the reasons they have not come out strongly with more information to sort of, you know, protect themselves or to explain themselves if it's not true. But anyway, go ahead. That's baloney. That's such crap. Okay, go ahead. I mean, there's a way to talk in generals about the quality of your medical staff. I'm just wondering if that may have been part of the medical-related issue to begin with,

that maybe they disclosed something that was not supposed to be disclosed, and now they're really gun-shy to say anything. But go ahead. Listen, they need to defend. They need to defend their staff. He wants a new deal. This is at the... I know that, but I get that, but how many players have ever done...

More than the medical. How many players have ever done it this way? How many players have ever taken the team's medical staff and threw them under the bus to get more money? Like I pointed out in my column, that right now the damage is already done. It doesn't matter if the Redskins signed him to a deal and he comes back and he plays well.

The narrative out there in Google land is the Redskins' medical staff is something to be feared. I mean, I'm thinking, I wrote my column, what about Innova? They're medical business partners. I think the Redskins Park is named the Innova, you know, performance center or something like that. Their name is on the building. And here you had the star player basically calling the question their medical staff.

That damage is done. That's out there. And not only that, you had a teammate basically back them up in more. Morgan Moses. Right. So that can't be fixed. Maybe the Trent Williams playing for the Redskins can be fixed, but the damage he's done is irreparable.

It's not irreparable. It is. It's not. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what, a month from now, let's say August, Trent's playing for the Redskins, okay, everything's fine. Google Redskins medical staff and tell me what comes up. If a month from now, Trent Williams has a new deal and says, yeah,

that stuff about the medical, I have no idea where that came from. Dr. Casillero and Larry Hess in the group, I've always liked them. I've got my own guys too, but I don't have a problem with that at all. That won't do anything. Right now, the conversation, this is the stuff that people pay money to get scrubbed off the internet, Kevin. Do you know this from experience? No, I don't. But I know there's businesses that do that for a living.

Right. And again, if you're a business out there and the business, of medicine, you don't want one of your most high-profile players taking... I got it. Saying, I'm angry with the way they treated me. Well, he didn't say that. It was reported that he feels that way. And again, no...

I'm with you on Jason. I'm with you on Jason if you're about to say... No, I'm saying Tread Williams agent recognizes the damage that that was, that had, that has done to the Redskins organization. And if there was any qualms about the validity of it, that agent is speaking up. That agent is speak up and saying, you know, this isn't necessarily true. You know, we're talking to the... Somebody's stepping up and saying something to defend somebody here.

That's not happening. I think the... You, of course, grabbed on to Bruce Allen and truth in the same sentence and wrote a column about it, which, you know, was a good column. I grabbed on to the part where he said, Trent has been evaluated. player for us, and that's why we signed him to the contract he has. That is interesting. And that to me was the most telling because what I have heard is this is about a new deal more than anything else. And not that he hasn't been frustrated potentially about some of the medical and that it didn't

sort of help, you know, by getting it out there, perhaps, you know, create even more leverage potentially for himself. But he wants a new deal. And Bruce isn't going to give it to him or doesn't want to give it to them. And, you know, this is where, you know, again, getting back to the beginning conversation of this podcast today, some of you just don't know and you don't hear what, a lot of what some of us in the media get to hear about just the internal, you know, the internal dysfunction as it relates to Bruce Allen and players and agents. Tommy just referenced it. The USA Today poll from when was that? Last year. Was it last year? He, was voted the least trustworthy executive in the entire NFL. Part of that poll also had a question

which team is prepared for contract negotiations the best and which team is prepared for contract negotiations the worst. The Redskins were the third worst in the NFL in contract negotiations. This is Bruce. Bruce has, he's a great nickel and dimer. He's great at getting a good deal for the team. Unfortunately, the players usually don't turn out to be great. He gets great deals on average and subpar players, but the frustration of dealing with Bruce gets to some of these players and players' agents. That's why I've suggested over the last month, keep an eye on this Brandon Sheriff thing. Brandon Sheriff is a monster as a player. You do not want to lose somebody like Brandon Sheriff, you know, unless somehow this injury from last year is he going to

impact his future. You want Brandon Sheriff to be a cornerstone offensive lineman guy for the next 10 years. He'll have seven, eight pro bowls between now and the time he retires, but they have not signed him to an extension yet. They want to, but Bruce and Sheriff's agent are not seeing eye to eye. Why? Because Bruce is not going to give Sheriff the deal he's looking for. And therefore, they're going to be in a position where either sheriff's going to settle or Dan's going to get involved. And I still think Dan could get involved with this Trent situation and resolve it. Oh, I think the owner should be involved in the Trent situation now for any team. I mean, basically, we're talking again, I don't understand why people don't get this.

There was damage done to the credibility of a medical organization and a medical staff here. Okay. somebody to Redskins do business with, the owner damn well better be involved. Yeah, I, I, yes. We should, we should get an explanation at some point what this was about with respect to the medical. But again, what I believe this is really about,

big picture, is Trent wants a new deal. And again, Bruce doesn't want to give it to him, and therefore Trent at 30, he's going to be 31 years old, has a ton of leverage, and probably wouldn't mind moving on to another team probably would. to get his new deal, perhaps a contender, perhaps Houston, you know, a team, you know, close to, in his hometown. I don't know how this gets resolved. I've told you last week, I still think there's a chance somehow it gets resolved and it's like it wasn't even a big deal by the time we get to training camp.

But trust me on this. This is about the USA Today thing, that Bruce Allen isn't a great negotiator, that agents don't trust them. these are never comfortable negotiations. Trent wants a new deal. Bruce doesn't want to give it to him. In this particular instance, though, Tommy, as a fan of the team, I don't want to give it to him. I don't want to give Trent Williams at this point a massive contract extension. You'd be okay if they traded him for what? A second round pick?

Well, I would love for them to really get somebody into a position where they've lost their left tackle. They're a contender, or they have a weak left tackle situation. Cleveland could use a left tackle, plenty of cap space. You know, Houston could use a left tackle, some cap space. Chicago could and maybe get that team so desperate that they could maybe eke out a first. I know people have said I'm nuts for thinking they could get a first for Trent Williams. I mean, Dwayne Brown brought back a second, third, and fifth, I think it was. Trent Williams is better than Dwayne Brown.

Yeah, I think they could get something like that, but you have to have a left tackle ready to go to replace Trent Williams. Yes, you do. So I would go out to sign Donald Penn right now. I know. That seems to make sense. But anyway, you're right about the medical. I don't know the reasons why the Redskins haven't responded to this report that makes them look bad. I don't know that I agree with the level of damage that it does, but it makes them look bad in the moment for sure.

And they should be able to answer to it. But they haven't yet, and I wonder why that is. I don't know, Kevin. And I think you're underestimating. If you were running a NOVA, how would you feel? Well, it's, I don't know if it's a NOVA or, you know, it doesn't matter. I mean, basically the team doctors all work for ANOVA. They all work for a NOVA?

Yeah, they're partner. Well, Larry Hess works for the Red So, Larry Hess is not a team doctor. No, he's the lead team trainer. He's in charge of training and medical for the organization. Right. And by the way, it's had some issues with players in the past. Yeah. So all the doctors work for a no.

If you're in charge of a NOVA, this is a horrible situation to have to deal with. Yeah. Well, maybe they're wondering why the Redskins haven't answered on behalf of them. Yeah. Why they haven't come to their defense at this point. And again, you can speak generally. You can defend your medical partner without talking about Trent Williams in the least. Yes, you can.

And you know what? That's fair. At a minimum, Bruce Allen could have said, we have a terrific medical team and relationship with ANOVA and our doctors and our trainers. And we're, you know, we're, we're, Trent's somebody we care about deeply. And we feel like there is not an issue with our medical staff.

Right, there you go. Something like that. Anyway. Instead of saying he knows the truth. And no one believes that. He wouldn't know the truth if it was at the bottom of, shock glass. It's so funny because I don't want them to lowball

Brandon Sheriff, but I don't want him to give this deal to Trent Williams. Bruce Allen, his default, is trying to get the best deal possible and get the better of the deal. Even if it's dimes and nickels that he's counting at the end of this.

And this is one of the reasons he was voted and polled as the least trustworthy and one of the worst contract negotiators from the agent's side. Remember, this was a polling of agents. They don't like to deal with him because they know he's tough.

Right. Now, on the other hand, pick any poll you want about front offices and Bruce Allen. I know. They're at the bottom of all of them. He's at the bottom of all of them. He finished like 20th in a recent one out of 32 teams. I forget where that was. I read that recently. You don't have to find that one for me. I'm kind of curious about that.

It was as high ranking as I've seen for them. What else do you have for me today? I got nothing else for you, buddy. I think I've carried my load here. Oh, so last night, and some of you tweeted this to me, and I did see it. On the NFL network late yesterday afternoon last night, and I recorded it, I haven't watched it, they aired the Redskins Cowboys' 1999 opener at FedEx Field, Tommy, which was Dan Snyder's first game as an owner. Rad Johnson's first game is the Redskins quarterback. And it was their third year in the stadium. Opening day when the Redskins had a 35-14 lead, and Troy Ackman brought him back

and scored 21 unanswered in the fourth quarter and then hit Rocket Ishmael on a 75-76-yard touchdown pass and overtime to win at 41-35, you know, one of those epic Redskin Cowboy games. But I have not watched it. I did record it, but I saw the very beginning of it. And what struck me was this. The Cowboys scored a touchdown on the first drive. I just watched the first, you know, 10, 15 minutes of it. And it was a Redskins crowd. Like, there weren't any cowboy fans in that crowd in 19-9. Really?

I mean, I'm sure there were some. But, you know, we know what it's been like in recent years. Yeah. Where it's a true home game for them and a road game for the Redskins. And that place was packed on opening day with Redskins. Well, that's the way I remember those days. And all the optimism of this new young, go get a mowner. Yeah.

God, what a time that was. Yep. That's 20 years ago. 20 years ago. Real quick word about launch workplaces in Bethesda. If you are considering new office space or you're working for home and you want new office space and you live in the Bethesda Chevy Chase Upper Northwest D.C. area, you don't want a long commute. Finding it difficult to get work done from home, check out launch workplaces in Bethesda.

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That's it for today, my friend. Actually, I sent you something. What did you send me? last night a suggestion. You send me emails all the time. No, that's not true. That's not true at all. Why would I email you?

Oh my God, I get emails from you. I get no less than two emails from you a day. That's not true. That is true. That is absolutely not true. One a day. One a day. No, that's not true either.

I've got the one that you sent me about podcasts from yesterday. That's not the one. I've got your column from yesterday about Bruce Allen. Yeah. Right. That's two yesterday. Right. Okay. Okay.

So what else? Well, I suggest. a topic for discussion, but obviously... I didn't see that one. That was the third email then. Yes. So you said three to me yesterday. Yeah, to wake up for the none, the ones I didn't say you to three days before.

No, you send, I get at least one column email from you a day. No, I only write three times a week. I get it from your one email account, and then I get something from another email account. Or maybe I'm getting it from the Washington Times. Is that possible? Maybe. That's possible too. Okay, what was your idea that I missed?

Well, I don't want to bring it up now. I don't want to waste it now. I want to hear it. Well, I mean, and one thing, it's nothing original. They did it on the junkies this morning too. With the whole thing involving David Ortiz being shot in Puerto Rico. Not Puerto Rico, Dominican. Dominican.

And the outpouring of emotion over it, particularly in Boston, it's pretty clear that he's the most beloved after. in Boston and may and some people think maybe the most beloved athlete of all time in Boston. That's amazing, right? Yeah, well, yes. But it's three world championships when they hadn't had one in, you know, nearly 100 years. Yeah, and look, there's all kinds of, we're talking about, I mean, there's all kinds of components that go into it, but I think one of the most important components.

More than Bird, more than Russell, more than, yes, more than Ted Williams. Well, none of those guys are likeable. Brady? None of those guys are likable. Even Brady is not lovable. Was Ted Williams not likable? Not when he played. He hated the fans and the fans kind of put up with him.

What about Larry Bird? It's likable. Larry Bird is not a... None of these guys are warm and fuzzy and likable guys. How about Honda? Hondo, again, was never the top of all. How about Bobby Orr? Bobby Orr, maybe.

Bobby Orr is a likable guy. Boston's had some legends. I know that David Orte's was also the first guy to talk. after the bombing. Yes. He was that city. Boston Strong. Yeah.

So, I mean, I wondered here, who is the most beloved sports figure in Washington? Sports. Not just player, but figure. It's Joe Gibbs. I don't think it is. Who is it? I think it's Sonny Jorgensen. No, it's Joe Gibbs.

I don't. I think Gibbs's absence over the years disqualifies him compared to Sunny, who, however, whatever you think, whatever you think, is still on the radio calling Redskins games decades after he hasn't stopped playing. I think, based on my history and reaction, I think Sonny Jurgensen is the most beloved sports figure in this town. You could argue Joe Gibbs. What's interesting, though, is of the current athletes, it's Ovechkin. Oh, yeah.

I mean, but because you see, Ovechkin, you see, Sunny is likable, okay? Ovechkin is likable. You'd want to have a beer with this guy. Okay, here's what's complicated. What about Rigo? Now, you know Rigo. Yeah, Rigo. He's not necessarily likable all the time.

But he is, the fans love him. But, but, but. No, no, no, no. I have had one conversation every another with fans who have recounted negative situations, negative responses, negative interactions with John Riggins. Rigo does what Rigo wants to do. but Rigo is beloved like no other player in the history of this organization. He and Sunny.

He's sunny. Look, art monks not easy. Daryl Green's not easy. They're not. And they're beloved. Not like sunny. You know, the sunny thing, God, I feel like we've done this so many times over the years, but it's fine because it's off of the Ortiz thing and it's different.

Because when you said sunny, I'm like, God, there's just, they're generations upon generations. Who have listened to him on the radio. But they haven't necessarily. Who have watched him be part of the team. How many people are listening to the radio? I know that. I mean, and they're listening now. If they listen to the games, they're listening to because of Culey and Doc.

He's still around. I love Sonny. I love him. He's still very much part of the team. He's been so, even though he hasn't played, what, since 1974? Yes, 704. He's remained part of the team ever since and in the consciousness and in the discussion. We're not talking about a player.

It's not the same as a player who stopped playing 50 years ago. It's a different kind of presence. I think Joe Gibbs, though, still is like the most, you know. Most revered. Most revered. But most beloved? But what would the reaction be? I don't know, Tommy.

People love Rigo to this very day. And we've gone generations that never saw them play. And some, you know, only know them by one play. And they've heard about the antics and all the other stuff. But nine out of 10 people and their experiences with Rigo, whether they've been. be personal or from afar or positive, overwhelmingly positive. That's different than what I've experienced. You're talking about sometimes when Rigo's been putting a bad position out in front of crowds

without people sort of there to keep the masses away. I mean, Rigo is honestly, in the history of this town, in terms of sports athletes, Rigo's the superstar above all other superstars. I think it's sunny. He is, but Sonson. didn't win. I know. And Sunny is, I mean, Sunny's, you know, a generation before Rigo. I know that. But again, he's remained in the Redskins consciousness. I know, and I love Sunny, and I feel that way about Sunny, but I don't think as many, I think there are just too

many people that are much younger than, than you and I, that don't even think of Rigo that way. Probably don't even think of Gibbs that way. Probably think of Sean Taylor more than anybody else. You know who's not, you know who's not below it? Dan Snyder? No, you and me. We're not beloved. Rigo, out of all of the athletes in the history of this town, Rigo was, I mean, Sunny was spectacular and Hall of Famer and all that,

but Rigo was like this true iconic superstar. And like, interesting and people loved him. And yeah, I'm sure some people have had experiences here or there with Rigo, you know, that they're like, You know, but nine out of ten have been overwhelmingly positive. That's an exaggeration. And no, it's not. Yes, it is.

I think you're making something out in your mind that's actually not accurate. What do you think? I haven't been in town for the past 40 years? I know you have, but, you know, like, you take one, there have been a couple of incidents, and there are many more that have been incredibly positive. Look, I was with him for two years doing a show, and for, you know, having a part of the shows. I love Rigo.

And I think Rigo is, I'll tell you what, Rigo is interesting and he's smart and he has like this charisma about him, like this attraction that I think fans have had to him more than anybody else in the history of this town. I think it's sunny. All right. But no one's crying. Let's hope none of them go to the Dominican and get shot. Right. No one would be crying if you or I were in the hospital.

No, they wouldn't. All right. On that note, have a great day, everybody.