The Kevin Sheehan Show - Elite QB or Top 5 Defense?

Episode Date: January 21, 2020

Kevin and Thom opened with the news about Morgan Wootten's failing health. They debated whether or not NFL teams are better off with an elite QB or a top 5 defense. Plenty of Skins', Super Bowl, MLB HOF, and Andy Reid talk too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Tommy is here. Aaron's here. I am here today. We got a lot of stuff to get to. I wanted to start real quickly with this. The news that Morgan Wooten is very ill. Morgan Wooten, according to Dematha, is now at home with hospice care. 88 years old, Dematha put out a tweet. They want the entire community to know how much he appreciates all of the love and support he and his wife and the family have received the prayers mean the world to them. He hasn't passed, okay, at this point. So I hesitate to really do a whole sort of retrospective. But in reading that news early this morning, right, I heard Galdi, you know, doing it on, on his show on the way in. And I just thought about a lot of things. I mean, I thought about the lunch with a legend that you and I, did with Morgan Wooten, which was so fascinating and so interesting because we got all of those stories about the high school days and the rivalry with John Thompson, which there was no love

lost between the two of them. I thought personally, and have often thought about this. We all have you know experiences from, you know, our young, you know, formative years. And I went to Morgan Wooten and Joe Gallagher's basketball camp, which was called Metropolitan Boys Basketball School. every summer for, I don't know, eight years, you know, from like age seven to 15 or, you know, 15, I would go, you know, two weeks minimum every summer. Right. It was a day camp, Tommy, but it became eventually a sleepaway camp, which they did somewhere up in Maryland. Anyway, it was the most, it was the best camp on the East Coast.

Kids from all over the East Coast came to this basketball camp. I mean, you had so much talent there. And the counselors were the dematha in St. John's players. So, you know, some pretty eventual, really good college basketball players. Like my coach one year was Derek Wittenberg. You know, the famous Derek Wittnberg, who threw the pass to Lorenzo Charles or missed the shot in the 82 championship game. And so, you know, I talked about it this morning. And there were people that sent me, God, I went to that basketball camp too.

Danny Ferry was my, you know, was my counselor and my coach. whole thing. But it was such a great experience. And I think about all the people, when you are a coach and a teacher, and Morgan Wooten was a teacher, too. And according to a lot of people, was a great world history teacher for years at Dematha. When you think of somebody who has spent his entire career coaching high school basketball and teaching, you know, in a high school, you think about all the people he's influenced. Oh, yeah. It's amazing. I mean, it's remarkable. I mean, you know, I'm an outsider. I mean, I didn't grow up around here.

Right. You know, I didn't experience any of that. But I'm constantly amazed at all the people who have fond memories who he touched. Yeah. You know, at one point or another. I mean, some of whom didn't play basketball or had anything to do with basketball. So, I mean, he's one of the most influential figures among on the community of our time. You know, I probably failed here in the first three, four minutes of the show.

Not everybody listening knows who Morgan Wooten is or understands his impact. Morgan Wooten is really the greatest high school basketball coach of all time. You know, he's got 22, five mythical national championships, which is what high school is. 22 championships here in D.C. when they used to play the city title game, they don't really anymore. 33 WCAC titles. The Washington Catholic Athletic Conference has been and still is the best basketball league in America for high school basketball. In fact, right now, and I just did something on this the other day on the radio show, four teams from that league are in the ESPN top 25 right now.

Four. Not one other metro area has more than one team, and this league has four of the top 25 nationally. DeMath is in it. Gonzag is in it. St. Johns is in it in PVI, Paul the 6th, all of them in the top 25. Anyway, Morgan Wooten is a legendary high school coach. He's in the Basketball Hall of Fame. He's one of three high school coaches in the Basketball Hall of Fame. John Wooden, the great UCLA coach many years ago, called Morgan Wooten from DeMatham, the greatest basketball coach of all time in terms of

his ability to coach basketball. This is who Morgan Wooten is. He was sick, he was sick, Obviously, you know, in the 90s, he nearly died from a malfunctioning liver, and then he had a kidney fail, and his son donated one of his kidneys. And so he's 88 years old, and our prayers are out to him. But I'll never forget, you and I, that lunch with a legend was so much fun to do there. What did we do that for? I was trying to think of it this morning. It was like five years?

Yes. It's like five years, right? Oh, yeah. And we did two or three or four a year. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Somebody, Greg asked me this morning. He said, well, why did you stop doing it? I said, well, I think we ran out of legends.

Yeah, we did. Pretty much. Yeah. There was one that we never got that we wanted. Do you remember? No. One DC legend that you and I both attempted multiple times. We both had conversations with them about it.

Oh, Ray. Yeah, Sugar Ray Leonard. Was the only one we felt like we needed to get we never got him. Yeah, we never did get Ray. Anybody else that you consider to be a DC sports legend, with the exception of Alex Ovechkin, when we were doing it, I mean, Ovechkin was on the verge of it, but we didn't have Ovechkin. Right. And we didn't have Walter Johnson or Sammy Boy, either. But that two hours spent with him that day, it was so cool for me because I did grow up in this area.

And I played basketball. And my father was a basketball coach when he was a young man. And I, you know, was taken to Dematha St. John's games, DeMatha Macon games when I was 12 years old. My dad would be like, we're going to, you know, we're going to see Dematha play St. John's tonight. Big game. You know, number one versus number two. And then going to that basketball camp, which Morgan Wooten and Joe Gallagher, who was the long time, you know, legendary St. John's coach here in town, you know, they were the two owners of that camp. And it became super popular. I mean, thousands of kids a summer would go to it.

And so many high school and future college players, you know, came out of that basketball camp. And he used to do something at the end of each camp day. It was a tradition in that basketball camp. Morgan Wooten and Joe Gallagher would address the camp at the end of the day, say something. And by the way, Tommy, they would have the best speakers and guests come through there. They would have the best, you know, from Pete Marevich to Bill Russell. Red Hourback? Red Hourback every summer was a lock to come through.

But at the end of every day at camp, Morgan Wooten would go to half court after he said whatever he would say. And he would attempt his bounce shot where he'd throw the ball straight up in the air and have it bounced. just inside the free throw line. Yeah. And it would go in. Sometimes it would take him three or four attempts, but the camp wasn't over until he made one. And he would finally make one.

He had that shot down. But, you know, oh, I was, so anyway, our prayers out to Morgan Wooten and his family. But when I was talking about our lunch with a legend earlier this morning, my favorite one was the one you weren't there for. And it wasn't, that's not why it was my favorite one. but you it was just John Thompson and me

I think you were out that day or couldn't make it or whatever I forget what the circumstance was around it because we were doing the show but you couldn't make that one that was to me the most interesting one just because of his life but one of the sunny was the one I owe you that yes you do I owe you a copy of the Sunny Jurgensen lunch with a legend yeah sunny let me make a note of that sunny was the one that was great that was absolutely great

Lefty was unbelievable. Dexter was memorable. Dexter, but killed my cell phone. He broke your phone. He drowned your phone by slamming his fist on the table. It was Cowboy Week. Yes. So those are the three that come to mind that were really legendary.

There was one where we almost lost Richie Pettibone. We almost lost Ritchie Pettabone. He almost fell off a stage behind us that had no back. Who saved him? You did. I did. Yeah. I was quick on the react.

I'm telling you. I grabbed the chair before he went backwards off of maybe a, I don't know, a three to, about a four or five foot elevated stage. It would have been a bad fall. It would have been an ugly fault. Yes. Richie was great. John Thompson was great.

Gary Williams was awesome. Yes. You weren't there also for the Jim Palmer one. No, I was not. He was phenomenal. I think you did that before we did the show. That may be true. Yeah.

And then we did Bobby Dandrich and Kevin Grevy. And Kevin Grevy. That was a great one. We also did a couple of them that weren't so good. No. And we won't mention what those were. No. The Lefty one, though, I told Greg the story this morning.

I think you remember it that basically I asked him for like a year and a half, remember, and he wanted to get paid. Yeah. You know, I would call him up and he'd say, well, you know I don't know. You got to pay me. And I said, Lefty, we didn't pay John. We didn't pay Gary. Well, they live up there. I live down in the Tidewater.

in Virginia Beach. And finally, remember, we came up, you know, Chuck came up with some money to pay Lefty. I don't know, it was $1,500, $1,500 and travel. There was all kinds of stuff. There was a limo. There was a gift basket. Right. There was all kinds of stuff.

Right. But finally, I got, I mean, it had been, that was one that I went out and got and I was in contact with the lefty over a year and a half period before he finally decided he would do it. And so the day of the show, with Lefty being the primary guest, we used to do these things down at Morton's downtown in Connecticut Avenue. And we'd rent the restaurant out and we'd sell tickets. And, you know, a lot of those things sold out immediately. Lefty sold out immediately. And we packed the place.

And it was really a lot of fun. And so we're down there. And what typically happened is our show started at noon and there was an 1130 meet and greet with you and me and then whomever. the lunch with a legend guest was to take pictures, you know, and sign things. And so I told Lefty you got to be there at 1130. And we've got a car picking you up to pick, you know. So at 1129 a.m. I look at my cell phone and Lefty's calling me. He's not there yet at Morton's.

And I pick up the phone and I go Lefty. He goes, Kevin, man, I was thinking about this. I need more money to do this. That's what he said to me. Do you remember this? I vaguely remember it. He said, I'm going to need more money to do this. And I said, are you shitting me?

Are you out of your mind? People are here. It's packed. And he said, no, man, I'm just kidding. I'm on the elevator coming upstairs. I was laughing. I was dying and literally almost instantaneously. He walks into the door and he's pointing at me and he's laughing.

He's laughing. I got you. I got you. And I said, yeah, you got me. He goes, you're pretty mad. And I so, well, after negotiating with you for a year and a half over basically Nichols, it wouldn't have surprised me. So anyway, that was a really good one. Anyway, so we got sidetracked there. The net of it of the message here is we send our prayers out to Morgan

Wooten, who is in all-time, you know, athletic sports figure in this city, but, you know, in high school sports, probably the most well-known high school coach in the history of high school basketball. He's in the basketball Hall of Fame. He is. He's one of three high school coaches in the Hall of Fame. He's he's. He's, he's. He's, he's. He's in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. That's all you need to know. All right. So before I get to a Redskins topic, and you got some stuff today, too, I wanted to, did you, we didn't talk about this Aaron yesterday on the podcast.

And I didn't see this, I don't think, until maybe yesterday after the show. Danny Connell, who I think works for Sirius XM now. He doesn't work for ESPN anymore. He's a weasel, by the way. He is an outright weasel. I don't know him. I don't really listen to him that much. I mean, he really is an idiot when it comes to his public opinions.

Really? So let's hear this latest moron. So he got a lot of attention for a take he had on Twitter during the 49ers Packers game. It came after the play where Aaron Rogers in the first half fumbles or botches the snap with his center. On the one drive in the first half where the Packers actually were moving the football and ended up being a turnover. And the ball was on the ground. It was recovered instantaneously, by the way, by the 49ers, and I'll get to that in a moment. But Connell tweeted right after the play, quote, this is cringeworthy. Why doesn't Rogers get on this or not even try? We skewered Cam Newton for a similar

play in the Super Bowl. That was his tweet. So I didn't see this, I guess, until yesterday, I think after the show maybe. It's one of the worst. I went back and looked at it because my first reaction was Aaron Rogers, Cam Newton, the ball was sitting right in front of him, like in that Super Bowl game. He avoided it, like he didn't want any part of the contact. Aaron Rogers definitely doesn't make a play on this ball, but here's the reason. And this is what makes it, to me, one of the worst takes of all time. The two situations, the two plays, are not even close. Aaron Rogers fumbled the snap.

It literally, Tommy, if you go through it and watch it on replay, slow it down real time, it doesn't matter. It hits the ground and jets forward and almost instantaneously is recovered by 49ers defensive lineman DeForest Buckner, who was on the other side of the line of scrimmage. There's no attempt from Rogers to make a play on recovering the ball because the ball gets recovered immediately, making it unrecoverable in that particular situation. In fact, if you look at it, even if it hadn't been recovered immediately, the ball moved away from Rogers and then is behind this massive humanity, which is the defensive and offensive lines,

almost acting as a wall in front of where the ball is. He had no chance. In fact, only the receivers that were split out and maybe his running back had less of an opportunity to make a play on the ball. I think you're giving Rogers way too much credit here. When the last time you saw this play? I saw it, you know, replays on Sunday. Yeah.

But it was hard to follow the ball, wasn't it? Not for him, because he saw it got recovered immediately. Okay, okay. Danny Connell was not alone. I didn't say he was. What I am saying is it's the worst take anybody may have had in a long time. You ever hear of Mike McCartney? Mike McCartney, the agent.

Kirk's agent? Yeah. He tweeted out, I think I just saw a business decision. Yeah, well, he's wrong. Okay. No, anybody that has that position is dead wrong. Well, let me just say this. They're dead wrong if they compare it to the Cam Newton play.

That's what's totally inaccurate. And to me, what Connell's doing there is he is tweeting something and creating this hot take with a bit of racial overtone to it. You know, Aaron Rogers' white quarterback doesn't make a move on the fumble, doesn't get criticized, and then Cam Newton, black quarterback, gets criticized like hell. The bottom line is the two plays are not even remotely close. Cam Newton, Tommy, because I went back and watched the two, Cam Newton in that Super Bowl is in throwing motion,

and as the arm gets all the way back, Von Miller swipes and strips the ball. The ball bounces in front of Cam Newton no more than two, three, maybe three and a half feet away from him with nobody around the ball. He looks at it, he starts to make a play for it, and then DeMarcus Ware from the ground being blocked reaches his arm in the direction of the ball and Cam Newton stops and backs up. Anybody that is viewing this objectively, which I was going into it,

will see that these two plays are not remotely close. Cam Newton decided not to go for it. He made a business decision in the Super Bowl. Aaron Rogers never had a chance to make a decision. The ball was recovered within less than a half a second after the ball. It literally hits his hands, bounces underneath the center, forward, right into DeForest Buckner's arms. And then he gets up and tries to run with it. Aaron Rogers is looking at the whole thing.

He starts to back up. By the time he would even take a step forward, the ball's already recovered. And by the way, if it hadn't been recovered, he's got no chance. The ball's on the other side of the line of scrimmage. So anyway, I just thought after reading that thing, somebody sent it to me and then going back and looking at it. and anybody that felt that way, it's a terrible take. Now, if you want to say Aaron Rogers made a business decision by not going after DeForest Buckner and really making an effort,

that's different from Cam Newton got criticized for doing the same thing. He didn't. He didn't do the same thing. It was a totally different thing. I'll take your word for it. I didn't break them down like the Zabruder film. I did. So I don't know. I just thought for an agent to comment about another player like that in a game,

I thought it was pretty strong. That was a pretty strong, too. I didn't see his take, but that is pretty strong. Yeah, you know, that... I think I just saw a business decision. Right. Well, you know, it was part of a half in which Aaron Rogers was completely befuddled. You don't see him that much that way. And it looked really like he was at times lackadaisical and disinterested in the entire, you know, performance in the first half.

You know, for the factors. Although that's the way he is when he's playing well. too. I mean, that's part of Aaron Rogers' mystique, is that, I mean, he just, he does, his expression doesn't seem to change whether he throws a 60-yard touchdown pass or fumbles the ball. That's true. I mean, he's expressionless. That's true. I think it maybe was more about, there was sort of a lack of physical urgency from him in the first half, but again, like I talked about this yesterday, and I don't, you did radio yesterday on the holiday. Like, he didn't have a chance.

in the first half. No. That defense was overwhelming. Yeah. And by the way, when the 49ers had the ball, they didn't get stopped. Right. They couldn't protect them. No, they really had a difficult time protecting him at that point.

But like I said, look, one of the things I admire about Aaron Rogers is when he throws a 50-yard pass, it's like you or I throwing a piece of paper in the waste paper basket. The amount of body motion, you see in him when he does that? quick. And it's so limited. Yeah. You know, he's not. It's Mahomes-esque. Yes, in a way. But so I just, I think that's just his style, his disinterest style. I mean, I think the most excited he is is when he does a state farm commercial. Yeah. Well, I agree with that,

but there is definitely, you know, I was saying yesterday that I think the three quarterbacks, and you throw Lamar Jackson into this too, but like you, you're watching three, and I know you're going to hit me with Tarkington and Stawback, and you're right, and there are others. But Mahomes and Rogers and Russell Wilson and Jackson are like the, it's incredible how unbelievably good they are at extending plays that don't have a shot, you know, as called. And they make so many plays off schedule. Mahomes, ridiculous in the last two games, how many off schedule plays he makes. And Rogers, you know, is the same way.

He just couldn't do it against that defense in the first half. No. They were overwhelmed. But you're right about Tarkington and Stalback, particularly Staubeck. Staubeck is a guy who would have – Tarkington would not have made that run up the field for a touchdown that Mahomes did. Storback would have. He would have made that run. Because Staubeck was not afraid of contact.

Right. He would seek it out. Now, the difference between Staubeck making that run in 1977 and Mahomes making that run in 2020 is that. is that Stauback would have taken a massive shot at the beginning of that run, whereas the Tennessee linebacker that approached him was tiptoeing as to not, you know, draw a foul, and Mahomes took advantage of that. Yes. You know, the rules being what they are now,

Stauback would have sought contact and would have received contact. Yeah. Big contact. And Targinton was just as great as Mahomes is scrambling and then throwing. but he would not have taken off on a run like that. He would not have done that. He was like a small. He was tiny.

Yeah, he was. He was running around, zipping around all over. He's very underrated in terms of quarter. I mean, for years, he held the touchdown record in the NFL. I think 342 career touchdowns for years. That was the record. Well, I mean, didn't he have the passing yardage for many, many years? So, I mean, he's a very underrated quarterback.

He passed his mark. Marino? Probably. Probably. Probably, who took his team to the Super Bowl, what, three times? Yeah, he took the Vikings to the Super Bowl three times. Joe Cap was the fourth loser, yeah. So, I mean, he's an underrated quarterback in the scope of things.

I agree with that. I mean, I always remember Tarkington not only as a great quarterback, but a quarterback didn't win the Super Bowl but won a lot of big games. Yes. You know, put it this way, they got there three times with him, which meant he had to win two playoff games in each of those three years. to get there. In fact, I would like to see what Fran Tarkington's playoff record is because I bet it's pretty damn

good even though he didn't a six and five career as a playoff quarterback. Lost to the Dolphins in the Super Bowl, remind me just to mention something about that game here in a moment. The Steelers and the first Steelers Super Bowl win and then lost to the Raiders, that great Raiders, 1976. And neither one of the three Super Bowl losses were close.

But they beat good teams like Dallas and the Rams and the Redskins, you know, in the postseason to get to those Super Bowls, not the Redskins in a championship game, but a divisional playoff game twice. So what about the Dolphins? So Jimmy Garoppolo is six for eight, you know, for 77 yards. In the first quarter, right? For the game. Oh, for the game.

I know. I know. Were you kidding? Yeah, I was kidding. You had this serious look like I had surprised you. I was making, I was doing my, I was doing Aaron Rogers there for a second. I didn't pick up on that because you actually gave me a look that you give often when you're confused, which I see usually twice a show. So he had eight attempts in a winning playoff game.

The fewest since Bob Greasy. I knew that was coming. In Super Bowl 7, Super Bowl 8, excuse me, which was the. the Super Bowl against Minnesota. In that particular Super Bowl, greasy was six of seven for 73 yards. Prior to that, in that same postseason, where they lost to Miami,

where the Dolphins beat Minnesota, excuse me, in the Super Bowl. They won the 73 season. Back then, the playoffs were actually contested in December, and then the Super Bowl was the only thing in January. In fact, the date of that Super Bowl was January, was January 13th, and now we're in early February, you know, for the Super Bowl. So in that particular playoff season, so he was six for seven in the Super Bowl game.

Hold on. I'm going to find it here in a second. I apologize. I had it yesterday. If that was the year that the dolphins had the two 1,000-yard rushers. Yeah. That when Mercury Morris. 72 was, I thought. I think 72 when they beat the Redskins, they had Mercury Morris and Lary Zonka. And Jim Kick was really close. Yeah, Jim Kick. had about 600 and 700 yards, and Morris and Zonka both had over a thousand.

So this is why Greasy could throw seven times in a Super Bowl, and in the AFC championship game, Tommy, the week before, against the Raiders, in a game that they won 27 to 10, easily, no sweat game, he was three for six for 34 yards. I mean, what we saw in this postseason with the Tannihill numbers, you know, he had more attempts, but throwing for under 100. And then with Garoppolo, six for eight in an NFL game in 2020, and they win the game going away,

you have to go back to Bob Greasy in the 70s to see something that was similar to it. Bob Greasy in the Hall of Fame, by the way. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. Do you think deserving of it? Yeah, I do. I felt like when I watched him play,

he was a Hall of Fame quarterback. I did. You know, the remarkable thing about those dolphin teams, and I'm sure people have asked Paul Warfield this, People who played in that era will tell you that Paul Warfield may have been the greatest NFL receiver of all time. But his numbers are pale to everybody because Bob Racy didn't throw the ball. He didn't throw the football. But Paul Warfield was universally respected as one of the great receivers.

But his numbers just don't add up to it. And how frustrating. I wonder how frustrating it must have been for this guy who was the best. the receiver on the field, any given Sunday, you know, to have a quarterback throw 10 times a game. Well, that was an era of two number 42s who were great, Charlie Taylor and Paul Warfield. Both wore the same jersey number 42 and both were considered the best receivers. But at least Charlie had Sonny Jurgensen for years. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, this is why Bob Greasy in the Hall of Fame. I didn't see, I remember a lot of his career. Okay, and 70s is where I first remember football. But, I mean, I'm looking right now at Greasy as a playoff quarterback. First of all, you know, the year they went undefeated, Earl Morrill was the quarterback for much of that year because Greasy was hurt. And Moral started the AFC championship game against Pittsburgh. He started that game. Greasy came in for Moral in that game.

A game they won just as a side note. It's just kind of odd. Back then, home field advantage wasn't determined by record. It was determined each year they had a rotating home field advantage for the championship game for divisions. Like this division has home field this year and next year. It did matter. And as the 14 and 0 Miami Dolphins, 14 and 0, they played the AFC championship game at Pittsburgh. Well, they were 15 and 0 because they won the week before. So they were on the road as an undefeated team in the AFC title game at Three River Stadium.

They won the game. But in that Super Bowl against the Reds, Skins, which was Super Bowl 7, greasy was 8 for 11 for 88 yards. Then I gave you the 3 for 6 the following year in the AFC Championship and 6 for 7 in that Super Bowl. He had a playoff game in 71, which was the week after the famous Christmas Day game at Arrowhead, which is, I think, still the longest game in NFL history. The AFC championship game that year against Baltimore, which was in Miami, he was 4 for 8. Four for eight.

I mean, this is what you had back then, and they had a great running game, but you also had games that were much shorter, fewer plays. Although in that particular game, how about this? He threw four completions for 158 yards? There you go. Come on. That's 52 yards per completion. No, not 52 yards.

158 yards. He's literally almost 40 yards per completion. Yes. In that game... That's an efficient quarterback. Well, let's just see. Warfield must have had all of them. Warfield had a 75-yard touchdown catch.

Warfield had two catches for 125 yards in the game. And then Howard Twilly... I remember Howard Twilley. He caught a touchdown pass against the Redskins in Super Bowl 7. Had two catches for 33 yards. Okay, anyway, enough of this. I remember... Who was the tight end from those teams?

Mar Fleming. Mar Fleming. He used to play for the Packers. Right. And wasn't he, was he a baseball player or two? I don't think so. No, maybe I'm thinking of somebody else from those teams. I'm pretty sure that the year that you had two 1,000-yard rushers in a 14-game regular season with a near third,

I'm pretty sure that was their undefeated season. Okay. And then remember, after that next Super Bowl, so they lost to the Cowboys, beat the Redskins, beat the Vikings. The Dolphins played three straight Super Bowls. And three straight Super Bowls and won two of them. And after that second win over Minnesota, there was a massive defection to the world. World Football League. That's right.

For a lot of the dolphins. Warfield and Zonka and Kick. Right. All went to the World Football League. Yeah. Yeah. People don't even remember the World Football League. Well, it only lasted like half a season, right?

That's where John Matusak started. The great John Matusak started in the World Football League. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I remember it was like a summer league, right? Spring Summer League and the games were televised. And what year was this? 74, I think.

You see, I was drunk a lot of the time. I really don't remember. I wasn't old enough to drink. A lot of 74. Anyway, so let me get to this thing that I worked on for you. Just for me? Just for you. You're so nice.

You're so considerate. I know. I don't know why people say you're so mean. I put in a lot of effort for the show yesterday. So yesterday, Tommy, I was mentioning, you know, with the 49ers winning and the Chiefs winning, that, you know, it's sort of a reflection that it can be done in so many different ways. You know, you've got an elite quarterback, and you've got an elite defense. You know, the 49ers are a great defensive team. The chiefs are really led by, you know, a lot of weapons on offense, but they're in the Super Bowl because of Patrick Mahomes more than anything else.

And that, you know, there are lots of ways to do it. And, you know, we, so many football fans will say, you got to have the quarterback. You got to have the quarterback. And I've always felt, you know, to a certain degree that you really have to have the quarterback as well. So, I set out yesterday to quickly just look at some data from the last 10 years, and it turned into a three-hour project that I finished very early this morning. But basically, I went through the exercise of looking at the elite quarterbacks of the last 10 years and the elite defensive teams of the last 10 years. Because I was absolutely convinced that what I was going to find is that if you've got the elite

quarterback, even though there are many ways to do it, more often than not the elite quarterback produces more than the elite defense. I thought that's what I was going to find. What I found was basically that the two situations are exactly the same. And bear with me here. So the first thing I did is I went through all the quarterbacks. And I came up with my own sort of, you know, my own definition of what a franchise elite quarterback is. And I said top eight in the league for the last 10 years. You may come up with something else. Everybody listening may come up with their own definition. I came up with Brady. I was going to look at Brady, Breeze, Rogers, Russell Wilson, Peyton Manning, even though he only played five of the 10 years during the decade. Russell

Wilson didn't play the entire decade either. Ben Rathesberger, and then I threw in Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers to round out like the eight best quarterbacks, the truly elite quarterbacks of the decade. You know, you could argue luck or you could argue Newton briefly or Mahomes for two years, but those were the eight that I came up with. No, Kirk? No Kirk. So anyway.

I'm just asking what everybody else out there is asking at the same moment as they're hearing this. I wouldn't have thought of Kirk as a top eight quarterback of the decade. First of all, I didn't start for the first time until 2015. Now, if we did the last five years, no. Anyway, the numbers were remarkable. When I went through, I took the top eight quarterbacks, and I first of all went through every game they started in their records as starters, the team's records as starters.

The eight quarterbacks over a 10-year period had a 656 winning percentage in the regular season. Then I went through the defenses. I took the top five defensive teams each year for 10 years, okay? And if you added up the records of all of those teams, the top five defenses in 2010, the top five defenses in 2014, and what the team's records were, their winning percentage, 654, identical. Identical winning percentages if you had an elite quarterback

or you had a top five defense. Then I went to the next step, which was the postseason. So with these quarterbacks, there were 73 opportunities to play in the playoffs. It wasn't eight times ten because some of the quarterbacks didn't play every year. 49 out of the 73 opportunities to go to the postseason, they went 49 times, 67% of the time. If you had one of those elite quarterbacks, those eight elite quarterbacks, you went to the postseason. If you had a top five defense, so it was basically five defenses times 10 years, 50 opportunities, you went to the playoffs 35 times, 70%, almost the same percentage. And then when you looked at the next step, which was winning Super Bowls, or,

getting to Super Bowls, 12 of the elite eight quarterbacks over a 10-year period, 12 times they participated in Super Bowls, and eight times a top five defense made it to the Super Bowl. So let me clarify in the Super Bowl thing. So in the Super Bowl thing, the elite quarterbacks 12 times out of 73 opportunities they went to the Super Bowl for the top defenses eight times out of 50, 16 percent, 16 percent, identical. All right, so winning percentage was identical, participating in the Super Bowl identical. The only thing that was slightly different was that by about a three percentage difference is that if you had a top five defense, more likely to participate in the postseason,

at 70 to 67%. I found that none of this is revealing because everybody knows if you have a great quarterback, you're going to win more. And if you have a great defense, you're probably going to win more. What I found interesting is that the numbers were almost identical, almost identical. So essentially, if somebody says, ah, you've got to have the quarterback, No, if you have a top five defense, you have just exactly the same chance. What about those defenses that had an elite quarterback?

It's a good question. So there was some crossover. There was, you know, the Seattle teams, the Green Bay team that went to the Super Bowl and went to the playoffs, Pittsburgh with Rock. There were teams. I didn't break those out, but there were obviously examples of teams that had a top five defense and an elite quarterback. And obviously your preference, if you were choosing between, hey, elite quarterback or, great defense, or both, you'd take both, clearly. But yeah, there were plenty of examples of where you had both.

But I also went and looked at those teams and thought which was more sort of the reason that they were there. And out of the last 10 Super Bowls, basically you come up with five teams where they were defensive led and five winners that were primarily quarterback or offensive led, sort of split on that front too. I guess what this led to was this. So the data says if you got a top five defense in a given year, or next year, if you've got a top five defense, your chances of winning, you'll win the same number of games as a team with an elite quarterback, you'll have the same chance, if not a slightly better chance to advance to the playoffs,

and you'll have the exact same chance to make it to the Super Bowl. However, if you think about this and I sort of thought about it in these terms, right now would you rather have San Francisco's defense or Patrick Mahomes? Because they're both in the Super Bowl. Wouldn't you say Patrick Mahomes? Yes. So would I. And what that really says is that if you have the elite quarterback,

the chances that that elite quarterback is going to sustain that elite level of play over 10 years is greater than your ability to have a top five defense each and every year for 10 years, which I think is true. Well, part of the reason. for that is the game is geared towards the offense. I mean, you know, the game is geared for the offense to score more than the defense to stop them from scoring. That's the way of the rules of the NFL now.

But Mahomes, you have to put him in a separate elite category because I don't think there's anybody else, save for Lamar Jackson, not yet even. I don't think there's anybody on that elite list other than Mahomes that can counter a great defense by being able to score within a minute on any given time. I mean, that's the Mahomes greatness. That's why I didn't think that Tennessee would really had any chance because as much as they control the ball if they wanted to, as much as the defense would be able to stop them,

Patrick and Holmes can score in one minute. I mean, most of these quarterbacks can't get down the field like he can. That quick strike is so unlike anything we've seen. That's definitely a conversation that we have to have between, you know, now and the Super Bowl is just this freak that is Patrick Mahomes. Because I don't know that it's getting, you know, at least from me, as much attention in these first two days following the AFC championship game as I'd like to give it because I'm blown away. Those are two of the best back-to-back quarterbacking performances I think I've ever seen. and I'm trying not to be sort of captured by the moment in the recency bias that we always have. Like it's the greatest we've ever seen or the worst thing we've ever seen.

But my God, what Patrick Mahomes just did the last two weeks is outrageous. You know, Sally Jenkins wrote about it in her column. She pointed this out over two years that he's been starting. Yeah. The Chiefs in their losses have never lost the game by more than seven points. That's what I didn't know that one That's stunning Yeah

Never lost the game But the losses Never more than seven Never more than a touchdown and an extra point Away from tying the game That's crazy Yeah

Yeah that's Anyway you I mean we can move on to that portion of it actually I want to add to that Because somebody A caller mentioned something to me today That I think you'll find interesting

And I found interesting Because I thought I think I agreed with him But the bottom line is for me, I'd still take the quarterback. And the Redskins are going to have, you know, potentially a chance at either the great defense with an addition of a great defensive prospect. Like a Chase Young. Or an elite quarterback, probably not borough.

But what if Tuatunga Viola gets evaluated as a great quarterback? Some people out there, Aaron had somebody on his gambling show with Murray in Jenkins that, from pro football focus that said to a tunga viola is a generational talent, right? Yeah. He came on and said if he was the Redskins, he would be taking Tua at number two. Yeah. Wow. So the point is, I do think it's, once you have an elite quarterback, the chances that that

quarterback will sustain a high level of play for 10 years is greater than your ability to have a top five defense year and in year out for 10 years. So it requires more people and, you know, whatever. So are you going to be filing your research with the pro football hall fame? No, I'm not. not going to be doing that? No. In fact, it's very, very flawed, I'm sure. And let's just not get Pricewaterhouse on this thing to audit it because it would probably

I think I think you should at least give the Pro Pupo Hall of Fame a call and say, look what I found out. So the conclusion is. So the conclusion is what everybody already knew. So somebody called this morning and they mentioned something. Wait a minute. Somebody called? Somebody called the show this morning. That's amazing.

Go ahead. So they said something, and they just sort of glossed right over it, and then I came back to it, and I'm going to come back to it with you. In getting caught up in this Mahomes frenzy, he said, don't forget that in 1984, Dan Marino did things that no one had ever seen before. He threw for 48 touchdowns, which eviscerated the record. He threw for 5,000 yards when nobody was throwing for 4,000 yards. And we thought that he was the next coming in the same way we think about Mahomes. And then he went to the Super Bowl and got absolutely destroyed by a really good team, all-around team. But that 49er defense that year was awesome.

And he couldn't do anything against it. And he sort of said, be careful because Mahomes is running into a great 49er defense. That's pretty good. Don't you think that they're very, I think the similarities between Marino, the way we felt, not their styles of play. Right. way we felt about Marino in 1980. Yeah, Marino was doing things that we hadn't seen before. Exactly.

No, he's right about that. That's a good point. But at the same time, I think Mahomes is even better, because Mahomes does it with his legs, too. It's like ridiculous what he does. Yeah. What's your first blush on the Super Bowl? My first blush is the Chiefs is Mahomes.

I mean, I think that as good as the 49ers, defense, you know, has been, I just think that, again, I mean, the 49ers, they could stop the Chiefs five, six, seven times. And like I said, they could have a 17-0-0 lead and be behind 24-17 in a matter of 10 minutes. What we've seen with 41 unanswered and 28 unanswered in two consecutive weeks against one team that's very good defensively in 10. to see was, I don't think we've ever seen that before. I mean, the comeback ability is so quick, quick strike. And plus, I do think that the Chief's defense, while it's not the 49ers defense,

they have a pass rush that could give Garoppolo a hard time. I, boy, I'm not blown away by the Chiefs defensively. No, it's not. And I thought Tennessee got away from Derek Henry too early. They have a pass rush that could give Garoppolo problems. They do. Frank Clark could be a real problem. I think they're going to have a problem stopping the run.

You know, that's going to be the best. See, Tennessee did it perfectly in the first half. They possessed the football, they ran the football, and they scored almost every single time they had it. And they were still down 21-17 at halftime because of that freak at quarterback. So my first blush is Andy Reid gets his first Super Bowl championship. That would be nice. I think that would be fun to see Andy Reid.

He's become a sentimental figure of late. I mean, did you see him when he dropped the challenge flag on one play during the game? I mean, he walks down the field so slowly. And then he just sort of like drops the flag. He's waiting to hear from somebody upstairs. It was so funny, though. But people I know, people who we know, guys like Beamich, who played for Andy Reid, just rave about what a great coach he is.

I mean, you don't hear any ex-players of Andy Reid or people who have worked for him in the organization ever badmouth them. Well, you know, the only thing Andy Reid's been not very good at over the years is clock management, which any idiot, you know, sitting on a couch can do pretty much. And, you know, certain talk show hosts that say that it's much harder than it looks. Actually, it probably is if you're down there on the field having to come up with it. But from the couch, it's pretty easy, actually. if you can do simple addition and subtraction. Now, part of the reason that, I mean, if you contrast the coaches, Andy Reed and Kyle Shanahan,

I don't think Kyle Shanahan is as unlikable as he used to be. He used to be pretty unlikable. Well, he was unlikable, and I talked about this yesterday, because of the perception, not the reality, that he was getting these jobs because of his last name. Part of the unlikability was his error. arrogance. You're right. I mean, there were people who played for him, who worked with them. Actually, the people that played for him loved him and really liked him. Only because media people

thought he was a bit arrogant. They loved, players love coaches who can prepare them to succeed. And he's a much better communicator than his father. Yeah. He is. Mike always said that. Mike said he's going to be a much better coach than I ever was. And part of it is, you know, he was a very good communicator with his players. Now part of the, now, part of the contrast I was getting to between Reed and Kyle Shanahan is, I think, at least for me, I think Kyle Shanahan's going to get more chances to win Super Bowls.

This may be Andy Reid's last chance. Why? We just talked about how great Mahomes is. Why isn't this the beginning of a dynasty? How long is Andy Reed going to coach? Well, he's 61. Why can't he coach for 10 more years? With Patrick Mahomes as his quarterback, I don't see him leaving anytime soon. Unless he's got some issues. I was thinking about Andy Reid, and he's on that list of the greatest coaches. Hall of Fame coach.

Andy Reed is a Hall of Fame coach. Even if he doesn't win. I don't think he gets in the Hall of Fame without the Super Bowl. I think he does. I don't see how you could put him in and not put Mike and Tom Flores in, who both have two Super Bowl titles. Bill Cowher just got in,

and I understand that Cowher has two Super Bowl titles as well. No, he doesn't. He has one Super Bowl title. Andy Reed's body of work, See, this is why I think, and I made the case with you last week, right, that if Cowher's in, then Mike should be in. Yes, he should be in. Look at what we've seen in this postseason. It's Mike's fingerprints all over it in almost every game in this postseason we've seen.

His zone run scheme, his coaching tree is, you know, continues. And Cowher doesn't have that. I think, Andy. Mike should be in, but Tom Floyd should be in too. He has two Super Bowls. These guys didn't coach in as many playoffs. games and make the playoffs as many times as Andy Reid did with two different teams. Andy Reid's going to coach in his 27th playoff game in the Super Bowl.

Is he Marty? See, so he's on that list of the greatest coach is never to win. Like Marty Schottonheimer. George Allen didn't win a Super Bowl? He's in the Hall of Fame. That's true. Because of his influence and because he was a winning coach. George Allen, in fact, I pulled this list up.

The number one coach of all time not to win a Super Bowl according to this list on in Yahoo Sports, was Bud Grant. I mean, got to four, didn't win one. Bud Grant won a lot of freaking games at Minnesota. 18 years, 621 winning percentage, four Super Bowl appearances, didn't win it. And he did it in short sleeves. Some might point out outside.

Right. He did. I would have thought that Marv Levy would have been second on the list because he too lost four Super Bowls. George Allen's number two on this list is the greatest coach never to win a Super Bowl. Marve Levy coach for George Allen was a special teams coach. George Allen's overall record, Tommy. It really is remarkable.

George Allen, Lifetime, is 116 and 47 as a record. Just like his son Bruce, except the opposite. It's got a 78% win percentage over 12 years. But he was 2 and 7 in the postseason. And the two games he won was the one year he advanced to the Super Bowl in 19. 1972 with the Redskins, and he lost that Super Bowl. But he was, he like Mike in many ways, was an innovator. He was the developer of the nickel defense.

He was the first guy to make special teams a priority and hire a specific guy to coach special teams. Yes, but one of the complaints you heard from Redskins players about George Allen. Too conservative. And too over-prepared sometimes in post-season. I mean, when they were preparing for the dolphins at some point, I forget who it was told me this, but they looked at high school films

from some of the players on the dolphins. He said, like they said, they were just too over-repair. It was too much. Right. And the more prepared in this, the tighter his team's got. Yes, that's the thing about Super Bowl 7

that they all say, that he was incredibly tight the whole week. They didn't have any fun and that they played tight in that Super Bowl. You know, the Redskins were favored in that Super Bowl. I believe I'm right about that. You know, and another key to that Super Bowl. Against an undefeated AFC team, which, you know, was still in 72, you know, it's still the NFL NFL thing, even though AFL teams have had won.

You know, I interviewed Jim Langer, the Hall of Fame Center for that Dolphins team years ago, and he said... Dolphins were one-point favorites. One of the keys to that game was the dolphins using a five-man line, putting Mani Fernandez over Len Haas. and Langer said he just destroyed him. He just absolutely destroyed. And Led Haas was a great center, but Manny Fernandez just ate him up. He's the guy who should have been the MVP of that Super Bowl. Well, remember, I think it was Jake Scott.

Five-man defensive front was what George Allen used against John Brockington and the Green Bay Packers that same year in the divisional round of the playoffs, a game that the Redskins won 16 to 3 at RFK Stadium. and the fifth player was... Bill Brundage? No. No. The fifth defensive lineman was... Was it Manny Sistrunk?

I think it was Sistrunk. Maybe it was. I think it was Manny Sistrunk. Because Bill Brundage was already a starter on that defensive line. And I think he put Manny Sistrunk in as the fifth defensive lineman, and they completely shut down John Brockington,

who was a really good running back... Yes, he was. Very good running back. And made Scott Hunter, who was... It was not Bart Starr that year. No. It was Scott Hunter beat him and he couldn't do it. Dan Devine was...

the coached. Dan Devine was the coach. That Packers team. So anyway, oh, the rest of this list real quickly. So number three on the list is Marty. Number, in terms of coaches, greatest coach is never to win the Super Bowl. So one is Bud Grant, two is George Allen, three is Marty's Shot and I'm. Marty is not in the Hall of Fame. Marty is not in the Hall of Fame.

Four is Marve Levy. Marve Levy is in the Hall of Fame. Yes, he is. I'm right about that, aren't? I think he is. Yes, he is. Yeah. Andy Reed is number five on the list.

Don Correel is six. You could make the, is Coriol in the Hall of Fame? No, he's not. He's always the guy people point to. He comes close. His level of influence on offensive football. Right. Well, yeah.

You know, is, you know, and by the way, had among his coaching tree guys, John Madden and Joe Gibbs. Yes, absolutely. And Bill Hannafin and a lot of others that didn't have nearly the success. Number seven on that list is Dan Reeves. Reeves went to a lot of Super Bowls as a coach. Three different teams. He took the Broncos to two Super Bowls, took the Giants, took the giant. to a Super Bowl and took the Falcons to a Super Bowl.

Yes, he did. You know, Dan Reeves, that's pretty impressive to take three different teams to a Super Bowl. Marty took nobody to a Super Bowl, but took how many different teams to the playoffs, three different teams, didn't take the Redskins to the playoffs, obviously. The Browns, the Chiefs, the Chargers. Right. Chuck Knox is on the list. Now, those Rams teams that he coached and the Seahawks teams, none of them made the, well,

Ray Malavasi was the coach of the Rams team that finally... When Vince Merigama was the quarterback. John Fox is on the list. John Fox took the Panthers to a Super Bowl, took the Broncos to a Super Bowl. Marvin Lewis is number 10 on the list. Is he really? You know, went to a lot of, you know,

seven playoff games with the Cincinnati Bengals franchise. Seven playoff seasons. Yeah. But, I mean, that list seems right. I mean, I think all of the guys that we would name are on the list. Bottom line is you think Andy Reid gets in whether he wins a Super Bowl. because I think he's taken so many he's had so many playoff

teams. It's very rare that Andy Reid's had a bad season coaching. And I think the same is true for Marty Schottenheimer as well. But Andy Reid, I'm going to just pull it up real quickly. I think I looked this up the other day and he had

very, like hardly any losing seasons. My argument would be is I think Mike Shanahan and Tom Flores are head of him online. Three total losing seasons in 21 years as a head coach. That's pretty damn impressive. Yeah, it is.

You know, that's it. Three losing seasons in 21 years as a head coach. He's won double-digit games in 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 in 14 seasons. 14 of his 21 seasons, he's won 10 or more games. Wow. It's pretty impressive. I think Andy Reid's playoff record, excuse me, me now. What I was looking at before wasn't updated. He's coached in 28 playoff games. He's 14 and 14

as a playoff coach. And we'll coach his 29th playoff game. It's a lot more than the guys we're talking about. Yes, it is. Anyway, a quick word about mybooky.ag. If you're looking for a place to wager on the Super Bowl or college hoops or, you know, the NBA, and you're looking for a place that's reliable and quality, high quality, it's mybooky.a.g. They've got the fastest payouts, the best promotions, a very helpful customer service team, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. If you join right now, my bookie will match your deposit halfway. So if you put in a thousand bucks, they'll give you an extra 500 to play with. They'll do it all the way up to a thousand dollars. So if you make a $2,000 deposit, they'll give you $1,000 to play with and to

wager with. They've got quality lines, many different ways to play. Straight bets, parlays, teasers, in-game action, futures, whatever you want. to bet they've got it available at my bookie.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to activate the offer. Once again, that's Kevin D.C. at my bookie.org. I saw you post your Major League Baseball Hall of Fame ballot. You do that every year. How many people do what you do?

They're totally transparent with their Hall of Fame ballot. I don't know. I mean, there's over 500 voters, I think, or 400-some voters. So I can't tell you how many do it. A lot more do it now. than they used to do it. And I'm in favor of total transparency, you know. But it's the thing that generates more passion when I posted on social media than any. Really?

Oh, absolutely. It's voting for the Hall of Fame is the thing that gets the most reaction from people that they're impressed when they hear I do it. And then the people who are so angry about my ballot when it comes out. I mean, I've often compared it to sitting on the OJ jury. No. Yes. No, no, it's not the same.

You're not in hiding in some hotel sequestered. No. You get to do this out in the open and post what you're thinking and what you do. It creates so much, so much anger. I'm thinking he's guilty today. You know what? They made some good points today. Dershowitz was really impressive today in court.

So, yeah, I post in mind about the results come out later this afternoon. I think that Larry Walker is going to get. Derek Jeter, obviously, the question is, does he get 100%? It's unanimous. I don't think he'll get 100%. I think some people will vote for him. Larry Walker is last year on the ballot. He'll probably get in.

And it looks like Kurt Schilling may get in. I didn't vote for Schilling. No, you didn't. But if he gets in, that's fine. Again, I'm a, I'm a will of the electorate guy. Whatever the electorate votes for, that's fine. You know, I mean, you know, I don't, I don't disrespect other people's ballots. Everybody has their own opinion on this.

However, the other side, the people who feel the need to be, to stand up for these noble cheaters, you know, this great, this great fight that they're fighting for the freedom of cheaters, like, like Barry Bond. and Roger Clements, they get incensed if you don't vote the way they vote. And some of them take their ballot and say, I'm going to boycott voting. I mean, some baseball writers have said, because bonds and Clemens are not getting the Hall of Fame, I'm not going to vote anymore. Like a temper tantrum. Yeah, that's ridiculous. It's really absurd.

Like, you're not entitled to your wrong opinion. Yeah. Damn it. And I'm going to do something about it. That's stupid. I like your reaction. If they get in, they get in. I don't vote for either of them.

I don't vote for Manny Ramirez. Why didn't you vote for Kurt Schilling? Well, because I think he's numbers are borderline. I know he has great postseason numbers, but as far as wins, I think he's got, what, 220 wins or career wins? I just think he's a borderline figure. So if he gets in, fine. If you voted for Kurt Schilling, I'm not going to say you're an idiot, you know?

But it really is. There are people who want my ballot taken away from me. There are people who have called me racist. Well, you didn't get used to that one. Yeah, you put your badge number on there. Well, you know, it's funny. You probably could have tweeted it out and just cropped that lower half. What's wrong with that?

Somebody could try to copy the ballot and send it in with your badge number and your signature in your name. That's okay. They can do that if they want. People would recognize, believe me, the Hall of Fame would recognize my ballot. Yeah. By the way, you see it's 119. I did see what your badge number. You know, when I started out, it was like in 20, in 93,

it was like eight something. Oh, you get a different badge number each year? Well, as the membership gets all, as you get closer to the top, your badge number gets lower and lower. So you don't have the same badge number every year. No, so like it'll be a little bit, there'll be some people who will retire or get out of the business next year. So if I'm still in it, my badge number will be a little bit lower.

Now, whereas there's, I don't know who the number one is, but there's a, you know, the guy who's been doing this the longest. Yeah, I mean, he's got to be 90-something, right? I guess. I don't know, but I'm at 119. You got a badge number. You're not an honorary voter. That may happen down the road at some point.

Yeah, it will be until they take that. If you keep voting this way? Until they teep that away for me, yeah. Yeah, so who cares what people's reactions are? But you didn't answer my question. How many people do this? How many post their ballot on Twitter? And I'm telling you, I don't know.

Right now, about half of the electorate have revealed their votes. There is something that says on this ballot. If you can, you can, do you wish to make your, do you wish to make public your vote 14 days after results are announced? You checked yes, but you made it public long before. Right. Because it comes out tonight and two weeks from now, we'll see how many people. Do we end up knowing how many people elected yes to this question versus no? No, we don't know that. We don't know that. If Bonds and Clemens don't get in this time, which I don't think they are, they may get in next year because next year,

ballot is really weak. It is. There's not. Who's the first time or next year? I don't even remember, but nobody who's going to get in. Yeah. Nobody who's, and the people who might be left over this year are not strong candidates. Even though I vote for Jeff Kent, vote for Omar, Gniscale, vote for Billy Wagner.

They'll be leftovers going on next year's ballot. They're not real strong candidates. So the opportunity is there next year, really for Bonds and Clements to get in. And if they don't get in next year, the year after is their last year of eligibility. And that's also the first year that A-Rod is eligible and will be on the ballot. That'll be exciting. That's a new clear ballot. That'll be exciting.

Yes. And David Ortiz is on that ballot. How many people could you have voted for up to 10? 10. And I'm usually on a liberal voter. Yeah, usually you have more than five. But I voted for five. And of these five, did you already say this?

I may have been looking through your ballot and reading it when you said it. But other than Jeter, between Kent, Visckel, Wagner, and Walker, where do you you think you'll be right and wrong? I don't think any of them are going to get in. Walker, no, I think Walker will get in. Walker is going to be really, really close. Right now, he's trending at like 74.6. Okay, so Walker may or may not get in.

The other guys, like I'm way off on Kent, even though he drove in, I think, 100 runs eight times as a second baseman. And Wagner's gaining some traction. Billy Wagner is gaining some traction. Omar Viscales, the greatest shortstop I ever saw. You know, and the shortstop, the deep, he won 11 gold gloves. Yeah. I mean, it's a position defined by defense, even in this day and age, to me, at least it is.

So he's gaining momentum, but he probably won't get in either. Like I used to vote for Davey Concepcion when he was on the ballot. The best shortstop of the 70s. Part of the big red machine. You know, he didn't wind up getting in. So we'll see. So there are a couple guys who, you know, who keep track of it and then keep track of projecting it. based on what they think the non-revealed ballots.

They have Jeter making it in, of course. They have Walker at seven. They think it'll be 74.5%. Shilling at 70%, Bonds at 62, Omer Visckell at 54. Really? Bonds and Clements at 62.

Yes. That's pretty, that's a low, there is such a drop at the end of people who, the people who don't reveal their ballots, a lot of them are not voting for bonds or Clements. Well, they tend to be the older. Yeah. The older voters who don't use social media who don't put it out that way,

and that's why they have the drop there. Yeah. Yeah. Next year, Tim Hudson, Mark Burley, and Tori Hunter. Yeah, it's not a strong class. And then 2022, Arod Ortiz, Tashara, Rallens, Papalbond's going to be on the ballot? Well, yeah. Everyone goes on the ballot.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Paul Canerka is on this year's ballot. Eric Chavez is on this year's ballot. So that's the last year for bonds, and in Chavez, and in Sosa. In order to stay on the ballot, you have to have 5% of a vote. Yeah.

Or else you fall off. Any other thoughts from the weekend with anything that happened in the Astros, in the Red Sox and the Mets, you know, with Beltran, et cetera. We haven't talked about it since Thursday. No, but it's... I mean, I read so much on it over the weekend. What's interesting about this as opposed to steroids is how many players out there are angry about this? How many opposing people?

players are and they're speaking out about it. Money, but it's the same effect. Like somebody on PEDs costs somebody a job that they weren't good enough to play. Barry Bonds didn't cost somebody a spot. No, but it cost somebody something based on the numbers he was putting on. It could have cost an MVP. Yeah. I mean, which costs people money because you get bonus money for MEPs.

Yeah. It impacted, you know, the Yankees and other teams in the postseason. But the thing with PEDs was there wasn't, there weren't a lot of players, out because they may have had teammates who were doing the same thing. In this case, it's isolated? At least it's fairly isolated. Don't you think a lot of teams did a lot of this stuff? I don't think they did it like the Astros did.

You think Altuve had something inside his uniform? I have no idea. It certainly is weird. That video of him coming home saying, don't rip my shirt off. I know. I'm not going down that road. I think that these players that are angry about this, players need to get suspended.

But again, for one thing, if they're all, how do you suspend the whole team? I don't know how you do it. And then you've got to deal with the players. Maybe you need to suspend the whole team. Then you've got grievances. You've got arbitration hearings. Oh, boy. You know, and all that.

I mean, what Manfred did was hope that by having such harsh punishments of the people and management, it strikes fear in the heart of everybody. Yeah. That's what he's hoping for. Do you ever read Kevin Seaford's stuff on ESPN? Yeah, you know, Kevin Seaford used to work for the Washington Times. I didn't know that. Yeah, he used to cover the Orioles.

I think he's really good. Well, I taught him everything he knows. Oh, well, that's why then. There you go. He wrote a story that I read over the weekend that was essentially putting Deflate Gate in this side-by-side and making it laughable. Like, the Flakegate wasn't even proven, you know, by the science. The Flake Gate was probably disproven by science.

It was all about getting the Patriots. He was all about getting the Patriots. That's all it was. And, yeah, and so it was an interesting article if you want to read it. I wanted to say one quick thing before we leave about college hoops, because tonight Maryland's got a, it's Maryland Northwestern, you know, Big Ten basketball, brother. Maryland's a seven and a half point favorite, Aaron. This is a must game for Maryland.

Like, you cannot lose to Northwestern at home or on the road. It's so hard to win on the road in this league this year. This is the one opportunity everybody's going to have to go in and, win. And they just nearly beat Illinois. And I'm sure if they lose tonight, we're going to hear that from Turgeon after the game. Like Northwestern's been playing much better. Because, you know, Iowa, after they crushed Maryland, hasn't lost since in their rank 17th or 18th this week. Maryland remained at 17. The other thing I was just going to mention is, poor Virginia, man, they cannot score. I watched some of that game last night against NC State. They can't score.

And they've always been great defensively under Tony Bennett. And they usually can't score under Tony Bennett. But this time they really can't score. They've lost four or five games. And in the bracketology that Lunardi just put out, they're not in the field. Virginia is not in the field. They're on the outside looking in. In fact, the ACC only has five teams in Lunardi's latest bracketology. The Big Ten has 11. Big Ten actually had 12 of their 14 in his last run. Minnesota is now one of the first four out. Georgetown's still in the field after losing to Marquette, but beating Creighton. And Georgetown right now is having, you know, they got a good chance.

They'd be in that, you know, one of those first four games. Maryland was a four seed in the latest bracketology, Aaron. So they are headed in the wrong direction. Big game, though, for the Terps tonight. I think they'll get it tonight. I think they'll win that and that'll set up a pretty big game for them Sunday at Indiana. God, I'm getting excited about Big Ten games, Tommy. Took me a few years.

I was going to say. It only took you a little bit. Do you know what? I watch many. Those first few years, I just kept watching ACC basketball. Didn't even turn on the Big Ten network unless Maryland was playing. Right. Now I watch the Big Ten Network.

They do a great job on that network. I watch it every night and I watch a lot of these games much before I watch ACC games. Last night there wasn't a Big Ten game, which is why I watched some of the Virginia NC State game. Virginia, man. They're so well coached, but it's hard to win games no matter who the coach is. If you don't have players that can actually put the ball through the hoop. All right, we're done, right? That's it, boss.

All right. Have a great day, everybody, back tomorrow, I think. There's a chance, just a chance, based on something that's going on with my other job that I may have to bail on tomorrow's show. Aaron, I'll let you know, and I'll let all of you know by Twitter, either tonight or tomorrow morning. but I have a contractual obligation to attend an event tomorrow, so I may not be able to do a podcast. But I'll be back on Thursday.

You'll be back on Thursday. All right. Good day, everybody.