The Kevin Sheehan Show - End of Snyder W/Czabe

Episode Date: July 14, 2023

Kevin opened with some NFL talk and then he got to the Netflix "Quarterback" series updating his discussion about Eric Bieniemy from yesterday. Steve Czaban jumped on to talk about the end of Dan Snyder and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Just one guest on the show today. Zabe is going to be on with me. He'll join me starting in the second segment.

He'll be on with us in the third segment as well. If you missed Mike Rizzo, the Nats GM, he was on yesterday's show. If you go to yesterday's show and go to the 28-minute 17 second mark, That's the 2817 mark. You can listen to Mike Rizzo, who was kind enough to spend 20 or so minutes with us on yesterday's show. Many of you enjoyed that. Many of you enjoyed the little gift I put at the end of yesterday's show. It just popped up on YouTube the other day.

It was Howard CoSell at the beginning of Monday Night Football introducing Cowboys versus Redskins in 19. I may add something else to the end of today's show. Things just pop up every once in a while on YouTube, and I end up going down that hole of watching some of it. And, you know, as we approach the end of the Dan Snyder era, which should be a week away and counting, it's nice to kind of remember the way it was before he took over. Hopefully we will get back to that point.

By the way, on Thursday of next week, July 20th, the day that we think the owners will ratify Josh Harris as the new owner of the team. And whether it's that day or the day after, Snyder and Harris will close the deal. Snyder will be gone. We're going to celebrate this down at the bullpen right next to Nat's Park. The radio station, everybody from the radio station will be down there. It starts at 4.30. Doors open up live music, food trucks, beer, drinks, the whole nine yards. Hopefully you can join us down there. I will be down there. I'm looking forward to being down there a week from yesterday. So Thursday, July 20th, it's called Burgundy and Sold. A pretty good name for a day that we will celebrate together down at the bullpen next to Nats Park.

The guys from 1067, the fan will be there. People from WPGC, 94.7. All of the stations that are owned by the Odyssey Group, which includes the Team 980, will all be down there. Please come down. I know I've met many of you, but many of you I haven't met, and this would be a good opportunity. Doors open again, 4.30, Thursday, July 20th at the bullpen on Half Street.

The show today is sponsored by our good friends at the Circa Resort and Casino in Sportsbook out in Las Vegas, and specifically their Circa Million contest and their Circa Survivor Pool. Now, the Circa Million guarantees $6 million in prizes. One million dollars goes to the winner. This is picking five games a week with the spread, and at the end of the year, the person with the best overall record will win a lot. a million bucks, but there are plenty of in-season prizes that will total another five million in guaranteed prizes. That's the Circa million presented by the Circus Sports Book out in Vegas. The Circus Survivor Pool is just like any other survivor pool. You pick one team straight up,

no spread every week. You can only pick the same team once per season. So each team gets picked once per season. And if you lose, you're out, but you're allowed up to 10 entries per person. Now, you do have to sign up in Vegas at the Circa or one of the Circa properties, but you can make your picks from anywhere via a proxy. But these are the two biggest contests in Las Vegas for the upcoming NFL season, and they are big ones. So if you find yourself out in Vegas or you want to take a trip out to Vegas, make sure to sign up for either the Circa Million or the Circa Survivor. I saw this right before the show started, and I was a bit surprised by it. Bill Belichick's friends are concerned that he is on the hot seat entering the 2023 season.

Since Tom Brady left to go to Tampa, the Patriots are 25 and 20, over the regular season, and they have failed to make the playoffs in two of the three seasons. And remember, the one season they did make the playoffs with Mack Jones as a rookie in 2021, they got absolutely blown out in Buffalo in the wild card round, 47 to 17. But Bill Belichick on the hot seat, come on. There's no way that Bill Belichick could get fired. I understand the relationship with Robert Kraft is hot and cold, and the Boston Globe's Ben Volan reports how tightly knit Mac Jones appears to be with Robert Kraft in his camp.

But I can't imagine, honestly, that Robert Kraft would fire Bill Belichick. But yes, according to the Boston Globes, Ben Volan, Volan writes that Belichick's close friends have privately said they are worried that he is on the hot seat entering the 20-23 season. If that's actually true, I mean, the Patriots are not in good position to have a great season. Look, I think they're very good defensively. It's a very good defensive team. But listen to how they open up 2023.

They open up with Philadelphia at home, all right, the defending NFC champions. Then they play at home against the dolphins, all right? The dolphins are supposed to be better than New England in the upcoming season. And then they have back-to-back games against the Jets on the road with Aaron Rogers and the Cowboys on the road. First four games, Philly, Miami, both at home, at Jets, at. Dallas. They'll be underdogs in all four of those games. I guess there's a chance, a chance they could be a favorite or it could be some sort of pick-em situation against the dolphins in week two, but more likely than not, they're going to be an underdog in their first

four games, which include opening up with two games at home. In the week one game against the Eagles, they are four and a half point dogs at My Bookie. All right, four and a half point dogs in week one. By the way, it doesn't get much easier after that. They've got a game against New Orleans, Derkar. They've got a road game at Vegas, and then they go Buffalo and Miami before they'll play a game against Washington at home on November 5th. That could be the first game that they're favored in.

Now, New Orleans at home maybe in week five. But if Bill Belichick's on the hot seat, it's going to be hard for them to get off to a quick start. I like them defensively. I really do. I think the Patriots are a very good defensive team, as they were last year, very good defensively. Remember, they drafted Christian Gonzalez, the corner from Oregon. Remember, by the way, that Gonzalez was selected one. pick after Emmanuel Forbes, and also remember the Patriots traded back. They traded with the Steelers

and moved back from 14 to 17, which was one selection after Washington. They knew that Washington had interest in Emmanuel Forbes and that Gonzalez would be there. And they allowed the Steelers to jump in front of the Jets to grab that offensive lineman from Georgia, Broderick Jones, because they thought the Jets might be interested. But also remember that Washington was talking to New England as well about trading up to that number 14 spot. We saw that in the video that the team put out where we saw Martin Mayhew and Ron Rivera and Marty Herney discussing a potential deal with New England. Washington was on the phone with New England and New England wanted a bit too much and Washington held their ground. Now, Ben Standig was the

that kind of put this out there, and I agreed with him, that Washington wasn't interested in trading up two spots to take Emmanuel Forbes. They knew Forbes was going to be there at 16. What they were probably doing was looking to trade up to take Lucas Van Ness, the pass rusher from Iowa, who went to the Packers at 13, one spot ahead of the Patriots at 14. So Washington, you know, once Van Ness was off the board didn't have interest in trading up anymore, and the Steelers pulled off that trade with the Patriots. But it is interesting to think about, and I know we've talked about this before. We talked about it shortly after Washington put out that video that, you know, detailed their interest in moving up a few spots. If they had selected Van Ness, it's doubtful that Chase Young would

be on the roster right now. Or let me just say that it's certainly possible that Chase Young would not be on the roster. They would have likely turned around and traded Chase Young for whatever they could get on night two, more likely, day three of the draft, something like a fourth rounder, which we knew had been offered for Chase Young and the team wasn't interested in taking a fourth rounder. They had made it very clear that they were open and listening to offers for Chase Young, but they weren't going to take a day three pick. But if they had selected it, Lucas Van Ness, it's very possible they would have taken a day three pick. Anyway, back to the Patriots.

I like the Patriots team this year defensively, but I do not like their team offensively. They finished third last year defensively in football outsider's DVOA metric. Behind San Francisco and Dallas, the top 10 defenses per the DVOA metric. San Francisco was one, Dallas was two, New England was three, Buffalo four, the Jets were five. Then it was Philly at six, Baltimore at seven, New Orleans at eight. New Orleans was really good defensively last year, especially as the season went along. Washington was nine, as we've talked about before, and Denver was at 10. I still can't imagine Bill Belichick being on the hot seat.

They should be good defensively, but it will be tough early on. There was another story that I saw right before beginning to record this podcast. I saw it on CBSSports.com. It was Antoine Winfield Jr., the Bucks defensive back, who was interviewed by Richard Sherman on Richard Sherman's podcast. And he said about a possible Tom Brady return to Tampa. Quote, I'm sure we're still reaching out to him to see if he's trying to come back to the team. It could happen anything's possible, closed quote.

Look, Brady, you know, we know didn't take the Fox gig to start this year. And we also know that he's about to become potentially a small equity holder in the Vegas Raiders. And that has not been approved yet by the league. but I don't see Brady going back to Tampa, no matter what Antoine Winfield says, and I don't see Bill Belichick being on a hot seat. But Bill Belichick's friends think he's on the hot seat, and Antoine Winfield Jr. thinks the team is still reaching out to Brady to see if he's interested. By the way, you know, that NFC South is an interesting division.

I personally think the Saints are the best overall roster. And they've got the most, I guess, stable quarterback situation with Derek Carr. I'm not the biggest Derek Carr fan. But right now you'd have to say that Derek Carr is the best, you know, he's the known in that division. You know, even though it's going to be exciting to watch Bryce Young in Carolina. We'll see about Desmond Ritter in Atlanta. But Tampa, they've got to decide between Baker Mayfield and Kyle Trask. you know, maybe they still think that Brady's a possibility.

I don't know, I think we started to see some signs with Brady, although that offensive line was a mess for him at times last year. The Kyle Trask thing versus Baker Mayfield, I would assume Baker Mayfield is the front runner for that, but I always thought Kyle Trask at Florida looked like an NFL quarterback. big dude, you know, they selected him in the second round, remember the buccaneers did last year. You know, a pocket passer for sure. But that's what they've had there for the last three years with Brady.

Anyway, I wanted to read this tweet that I got today from Benjamin. I did finish the Netflix series quarterback last. night. I really enjoyed it. Man, it's getting rave reviews. I had one of the three directors on the radio show today. His name was Tim Rumpf. He's actually a local. He's from here. He directed the Kirk Cousins portion of the quarterback series. It was not intentional that I got him on because he did the Cousins part. He was just the only guy that was available to come on. But I got this tweet from Benjamin. Kevin, quarterback is your best suggestion yet, but I can't believe you didn't spend more time talking about your guy. He steals the show. Kurt Cousins is a bad boy, and judging by

social media reaction, NFL fans have a whole new image of who he is as a quarterback and a person. But yes, the lack of BNAMI involvement was as obvious as you described it. I did. I did. I did. I didn't spend a lot of time talking about the cousins thing. I actually, you know, I did say that, you know, man, tough son of a bitch. I mean, what you see is you see a guy, I think we've, even his detractors, even those of you who are listening that are not Kirk Cousins fans, I think you would admit that this dude's tough. I mean, he takes a beating and does not miss games. And he played last year with bruised ribs for a significant portion of the year and was hit more than any other quarterback in the league. And you see that as part of this show.

But yeah, I do, and I have recognized that Kirk Cousins is a highlight of this show with a lot of people who have watched it. And I understand why. I mean, look, I think a lot of the stuff with Kirk I kind of knew anyway, and a lot of you guys know. But he comes off as very likable. He comes off as one tough, you know, Ombray, for sure. He comes off as, you know, a pro's pro, but I think we've always known that. And I know yesterday, maybe I focused on a couple of the things that were maybe flaws, but I think the one thing, and I forget if I said it yesterday or not, but I think the one thing that I would say that I learned about cousins, I'm going to get to Bianimi here in a moment, and add to the BNEMI conversation that we started yesterday.

But, you know, Kirk is a perfectionist, and because of it, there's a lot of anxiety around trying to be perfect. I think you see that revealed in this series, and I think Kevin O'Connell, his head coach, recognizes it. And, you know, it's a bit of a challenge to deal with that. Like there's an example when they came back against Indianapolis in the largest comeback in NFL history, down 33 nothing at the half. And they're driving in overtime and they eventually settle for a 40-yard field goal attempt. Kirk actually says it's too long. It's too far. Like he's miced up.

You know, this is the great thing about that. I mean, everything they do is miced up. And he said, it's too far. And I'm thinking, too far. Dude, what are you talking about? 40 yards is a chip shot. Now, I know that they had trouble with their kicker, Greg Josephs. I mean, this guy blew two games the year before.

They would have been a playoff team in 2022, in 2021 had it not been for their kicker. But 40 yards is a chip shot. But it's Kirk obsessing over, I should have gotten them closer. And there's too much, I think it's a bit of a flaw, actually. I think there's too much anxiety with Kirk over trying to be perfect instead of having more Rex Grossman in his personality, you know, F it, I'm going deep. But, you know, that's not him. We've known that. It has never been him. But I think what's revealed during this is he is a perfectionist. He's a pro, I mean, through and through. and the guy that I had on the radio show really loved being a part of that particular

quarterback of the three that were on the show. And Kirk is, you know, if you look at the response to this show, the reaction to Cousins is as significant as anybody else on the show. Now, let me get to adding to the Be Enemy conversation from yesterday. I told you guys that the biggest takeaway from me for the first seven episodes, and I watched the final episode last night, which was the AFC championship game with Mahomes and then the Super Bowl with Mahomes. But the biggest takeaway for me was just how little we saw of Eric B. Enemy in the first seven episodes. There just is very little Eric B. Enemy. And more important than that was

that the interaction between Patrick Mahomes and the sideline was always with Matt Nagy. You know, and Chad Henny as well and Andy Reed, and very little, if any, with Eric Biennamy. Now, obviously, this is an edited show, and maybe the best stuff with Beenemy was edited out. And I also, you know, gave the caveat yesterday that I had not seen the AFC Championship or the Super Bowl episode. which was going to be the final episode, which I watched last night. And let me just say, there is more Eric B. Enemy in the final episode. There's more interaction between Mahomes and Eric B. Enemy. But still, overall, again, an edited product understood, it's very clear that Matt Nagy, who was the quarterback's coach, it's very clear he's the

offensive coordinator. He's the go-to guy to disson. discuss everything that's going on in game. But anyway, we'll see. Again, I mean, this doesn't mean that Eric B. Enemy, you know, is going to fail here in D.C. It's not what I said, and I haven't said that. What I have said is that he had no other options other than D.C. That's just a fact. And that's a red flag associated with Eric Bienemy is that nobody else, none of the other 30 teams in the league, now some of them didn't have any reason to hire Eric B. enemy because they already have a head coach or they already have a really good offensive coordinator.

But let's just say that, you know, 10 other teams had a need. None of those teams were interested in him, not as a head coach, but as an offensive coordinator. And clearly Kansas City was going to give the OC job. to Matt Nagy, even, I think even if Bianami stayed, or if he was asked back, which I think Andy Reid would have done. But again, it doesn't mean that Eric Bianami won't be better than Scott Turner and that he won't spread his wings and fly high now that he's left Patrick Mahomes, Andy Reed and that group, Travis Kelsey, as if he's got those kinds of weapons here. It's going to be a challenge, and it was going to be a challenge for any new offensive coordinator,

especially if they go with Sam Hal, which I think they're going to go with Sam Hal. One other quick thing before we get to Zabe, and that is this. I did learn after yesterday's show. that by talking to a couple of people close to the Harris Group, that they anticipate the vote by the owners is going to happen a week from yesterday on July 20th. And they also expect that the deal will close. I was told by two different sources, the wiring instructions for the 5.85 billion or whatever it is have already been provided to the Harris Group.

So there's an expectation with those close to the Harris group that this deal is going to be ratified by the owners on July 20th and that it will close shortly thereafter. All right. Steve Zabin next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.ag or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., to secure a first deposit. bonus of up to $1,000. All of the preseason NFL prop bets are up there and available all of the week one lines.

Hell, you can bet week two games right now at my bookie, but you've got to use my promo code, Kevin D.C. Jumping on with me right now is my good friend Steve Zabin. At Zabe on Twitter, he hosts the number one show in Milwaukee and has been a Wisconsin guy from Northern Virginia for several years, but that's not what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about things that he wants to talk about and a few things that I want to talk about. But you are on your way where right now with your father? We are headed towards Doverdown's casino for a little one-night junket, and we're going to go take the tables down, right, Dad?

We're going to crush them. They won't know what to hit them. We're the father-son tag team card-counting duo. We're going to make the syndicate that took down Vegas look like child's day. I'm trying to think. Have you and I gambled together? Have we been in Vegas at the same time? No, you and I have never gone to Vegas together at the same time, which is a glaring and egregious hole in our life resumes.

Yeah, it is. I mean, because you had all of the, you know, the Sweet 16 weekend. I never went on those, but for some reason, I thought we were out there together during one of those fight junkets that the station sent us on. No. Maybe not. Maybe not. I would have remembered it. I certainly. I do not recall it.

I don't think we ever went. I can tell you this. I sat in a casino playing cards with Doc one night until about 5 a.m. Oh, boy. Yeah, that was. That must have been something. And I've done it with Lovey several times. Because Tommy and I were out in Vegas several times together for, you know,

remember, HBO would like pay stations to send like a show or two out there. They'd put us up in nice places and feed us and give us, you know, credentials to whatever the fight was. Do they not do that anymore? I have no idea. Or they just haven't done it for you. Let me just say, I think they're steering clear of AM radio stations. these days. Well, considering they're about to yank

AM out of cars going forward. I'd say that's probably a good technology wager. Yeah, for sure. You did tell me that you were on a nice golf trip recently. Where were you? A trip of a lifetime. We were in Scotland playing all the Rota courses, me and 11 other hooligans. And it was epic. We

played 180 holes, 10 rounds or eight days, 36 holes, two of the eight days. Oh, my God. And of the 180 holes we played, there was only five holes that required that even prompted me to put on my rain suit. So that's pretty darn good for going over there. So you hit great weather. So give me the list of courses you played. So we started, we actually had a preview round at Glen Eagles, where they held the rider

come. which was a really underwhelming course because it was so basic. It's like a resort course. Glen Eagles is a big resort up in the highlands of Scotland. It's not a links course. It's in the center of the country.

And they built a course there that was pretty much designed to host big events. So we played there first and then the official tour started. We went all the way down to the southwest to Turnberry, played 36 of Turnbary, played 18, and 18. There's two courses there. They're both excellent, but the championship course, the ELSA is spectacular.

It's my favorite one of all the rhodo courses in Scotland. It's where they had the duel in the sun, Nicholas and Watson, 1977, where I believe Watson shot 65 on Sunday, Nicholas shot 66. It's also where Stuart Sink dashed Watson's dreams of becoming the oldest major winner ever. in that famous playoff. So it's a historic place. It's no longer in the rhoda because, well, Trump. And, you know, they're not ready to bring it back there. It's a shame because it's worthy of having the open.

From there, we went up and hit Trune on route to Muirfield. And then we went from Muirfield to the old course, old course to Kingsbarns, which is a new course, Kingsbarns, up to Trump International and Aberdeen, played Royal Aberdeen while we were up there. our way to the airport the last day we had Carnuscy. Jesus. Oh, we also played Prestwick, the day we played Trune. So that's every course that's held the open in Scotland. There's a whole batch of them that's held the open in the U.K.

That's my next life goal to go there. And then there's one that held it in Ireland, Royal Port Rush, which Shane Lowry won. And I got to go there. So I'm going to get cracking. You want to go? Well, not to mention there are other great courses in Ireland. No, you just completed. There's other great courses, yeah. But I feel now a compulsion to complete the set. Right.

Yeah. You hit all of them. No, I haven't done that trip. So I had this trip planned right before the pandemic. The summer of 2020, we had a trip planned. We had a Scotland trip planned for that summer that we had to bail on. And we've been trying. able to fold that, you were able to fold that up because we had ours plan for that summer as well

of the summer of 2020. Yeah. But the way that it worked, like our money was kind of hung up in limbo. Not because the hotels and the courses were not issuing refund. They said they would give a credit for future rounds. And the tour operator was caught in the middle with people like us going, hey, just refund the whole trip. We've paid our deposits. And they're like, we can't do that.

Short of threatening legal action and finding out just what the consumer laws regarding refunds are in Scotland, we had no choice but to ride it out. So following year, 2021, things still weren't right. 2022, they had the open at St. Andrews,

so that knocked out our tea times there. We weren't going to go and not play the old course. Right. So we waited and waited and waited, and it was worth the wait because it was a great No, I hate to tell you, we were fully refunded. Yeah. I don't know how that worked. Where were you going?

So we were going to play the old course at St. Andrews. We had a Muirfield and a Turnberry part of it, and then there was another course that was not a British Open course. Lachlaman, maybe, was it? Lock Lachloman, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think they were all a part of it.

By the way, how did you play? I actually played pretty well at Bogadia a couple of times, which is no small feet. Two of my best rounds were 81s in pretty heavy wind conditions at really hard courses like Trump International. So I was happy. I was good. But, I mean, I could have shot a million. I wouldn't have cared. And I just loved the camaraderie of the fellas.

And I'd done this trip before, but I loved it so much. I wanted to show like a new group of guys because I had a bunch of golf. buddies that didn't go on the first trip. And they're like, oh, that sounds great. And I'm like, well, I'll do it again. And so it's nice to see their reaction and their appreciation of just how different it is and also the history behind everything. Because, you know, we did everything like we went to old Tom Morris' grave at the St.

Andrew's Cathedral, the ruin of the St. Andrews Cathedral. You know, that's like a must-do if you go to Scotland as a golfer. You have to visit Old Tom and Young Tom, he's brave, which are right there. in the ruins of this ancient cathedral. Were there any tea times early that were difficult to get up for after the night before, or did you guys take it easy on yourselves after long, 36 whole days? Well, yes, the tea times for middle-aged men after that much fault were hard to get up for. Moving, and you were out there playing, I think all of that melted away,

and you were just glad to be out there playing. You were excited. You were in awe. You were like, you were in the moment, you know? But the last day when I woke up, like, if the hotel was on fire, I said I would have burned up to a crisp because I couldn't move. Like, I was just tiptoeing to the bathroom. And I thought, how could I possibly play golf later that day?

Yeah. But by the time I had some breakfast, a bag of Coke in me, and a couple tramadoles. I'm like, boom, let's go. Yeah, I think for me it would have been for Advil and a transfusion or two, and then I would have been in good shape. That works as well. Yeah.

It works as well. So since you had your trip canceled, you've got to stand up again. I know. I know. There are, you know, we'll continue this conversation at some other time because I want to get to some other stuff. But there are a, you've done a lot of the big golf trips. I've done a very small fraction of them. Like you've been to band.

Which are the big golf trips? I might to know what you consider the big golf trip. Well, I've certainly done South Carolina. I've done Kiowa, the whole thing, and done that several times. I've done the whole Carolina thing at Pinehurst and Pine Needles and some of those. I've done a lot. I've not done banded. Well, that's what I was going to say.

That's on my list. Everybody says that you have to do band, and everybody says you have to do the whole Wisconsin thing, which I'm assuming you've done. Well, obviously, and just recently, DJ Pi from No Laying Up played all 10 of the 10 Wisconsin courses currently rated in the golf top 100 places you can play in the state.

They played all 10, him and a TV guy, in, I want to say, two days, 48 hours. They played five rounds a day. They were up at like 4.30 with low balls. And then they just went through the courses. But yeah, you definitely have to do Wisconsin. But man, I got to tell you, Sheen, it's getting so expensive.

The high-end public accessible courses and golf in America, it's kind of decoupling from guys like you and I, I think are, you know, not billionaires that want to play and are willing to splurge for nice golf. It's not 250 around, which is enough to make a lot of people's knees buckle. It's five, six hundred around. I know. I know. I know. But did you not? That's a bit crazy. I mean, I could swing it at that rate, but I wouldn't be happy about it. No, I hear you. Now, maybe not in Scotland, but I got, I have to assume that you,

have some ability to play at the family rate in some of these places, especially in Wisconsin. You would be surprised. I'm actually going to be playing Aaron Hill. Hold on. You broke up there for a second. You're going to be playing Aaron Hills, I think, is what you said. I'll be playing. Yes. You're going to be playing Aaron Hills a week from Sunday. And we did get a discount rate, but only because we've got a very good relationship in the front. But it's hard to get. And we wanted to get on Black Wolf, or on River, which is incredible. It's also the hardest course I've ever played.

It's ridiculous, but I love it. And we couldn't get a rate at all. And we were bringing 12 guys. We're like, we got 12 guys, you know, drop my name as low-level celebrity. Can we get a rate? They're like, yeah, no. I was going to ask you. It was going to be $500.

a lot of the guys in Wisconsin are like, we're just not going to pay that. We just can't. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. I was going to ask you, actually, it's funny. I was going to say, what's the hardest course of, you know, these exotic golf trips? What's the hardest course you've ever played? It's Black Wolf Run.

Black Wolf Run River just because, as I say, there's X on every hole, you know? Right. Like ex-vating. You're done. You've already, you've all lost two balls. There's waste-tight grass, there's water. There's just out of bounds. Yeah, all of it.

So that one's one of the hardest. Obviously conditions factor in. Trump International up in Aberdeen is outrageously laid out and designed where you look at the hole saying, what amateurs could handle this, especially in any kind of weather? So I'd say those would be amongst the hardest courses. I think down in Pinehurst, when they got the courses running really firm and fast. Well, two is impossible.

Yeah. Well, yeah, that's the thing, because you're having the chip off of the tightest, firmest, barest of lives around the greens. And sandy patches and everything else. I mean, if you're not savvy-like, you're going to, the number is going to pile up quick. So I think that all depends. I think that number two was actually, it's pretty, I guess, but it's not like the ocean course, which is spectacularly beautiful and super hard, but at least the walk is, or the ride is really,

really pretty. Number two at Pinehurst is too hard, and I don't think it's aesthetically pleasing. You know, is it number seven or number nine there is really the one that's better for, you know, mid and high handicappers. But the ocean... I have not played number two. I'm going to play number two. I've not played number two.

I've played eight down there. They added a tenth course. They bought it. It was a necklace design that was not part of the original resort. It's down the street. And they're building another one right now, as a matter of fact, on some property. But yeah, it's very hard, and it's not aesthetically pleasing. There's no signature hole in Pinders, number two.

They don't really have any postcard hole You can go You see it in a calendar Or in a magazine where you go Oh, that's Pinehurst Right Other than say 18 Right with the Payne Stewart statue

I did play the ocean course at Keowa I got it though On a very benign day In terms of the wind So that definitely Colored my opinion Of how difficult it could be But coming home

The holes are just brutal And we saw at the rider cup Yeah brutal because of the wind because they're right on the ocean, but it's so spectacularly beautiful. And they also have, they've got teas that make it doable. Like, I've done that a few times. And there are places out in Arizona that can be really, really difficult, too. But I love desert golf, too.

I love being out there, especially when it's beautiful weather there and not so nice here. Although you and I love the bad weather when we get it here. Well, we like winter weather. I do like weather. It does, and the seasons are comforting to me that you go through them. But when you're sick of winter and you're out in Arizona and you're playing golf in what feels like dome conditions, it makes you start questioning everything about your life, doesn't it? Why am I not here?

Why am I not here year round? Yes. And so let me ask you, because we're both getting to that point where you're starting to think about things like this. Florida, Arizona, South Carolina, where? Bro, I've been through. I do the lap around all three, and I make the case for all three. It changes depending on what I'm zillowing at any given moment, because I have absolutely thought of all three places.

Now, I don't know Arizona very well. I'm sorry, I don't know Florida very well. I know Arizona well. I don't know Florida that well. And if it's South Carolina, it would be Hilton then, where we will be going as a family for the fourth straight year. After really not going there ever, we've grown quite the affinity for it. So I can see for sure South Carolina.

Florida has a lot going for it. You know, low taxes, the state that's got a lot, you know, but the bugs, the humidity and the stutter. Florida, and the redneck and Florida, man. Oh, my God. Oh, and the West Coast, the Red Tide, which I don't know if I talked about this, but Karen and I were down there in March or April, and we were on the West Coast where my father and his wife are, and we were in Naples, and the Red Tide was, you couldn't breathe. It was so bad. So we got in the car and we went across.

The Red Tide is seaweed, right? Yeah, it's like this algae that comes in and it kills fish. It can't be healthy. And yet, you know, everybody says, oh, it's fine. But you just don't stay that long on the beach and don't go in the water. Like how I don't get the people that are in Naples and Sarasota and some of the beautiful spots on the West Coast right now with that red tide. We got in the car and drove across the state to Palm Beach and ended up staying there. But anyway, the problem with South Carolina is it.

I hear Naples. I hear Naples is like that. Naples is great. It's great. The thing with South Carolina is it does get cold. It gets chilly in the winter. You know, so it's not necessarily year-round. But I love Charleston, personally. A little, a little kiss of winter as though afterwards. A kiss. All right. I could have retired in North Carolina in somewhere around Charlotte or Raleigh. Well, you worked there. I think that's one of the, I did. I did.

thought it was the ideal weather because you did get all four seasons. You got a kiss a winter. Spring came super early. The summer was hot and humid, but no worse than here in D.C. And the falls. Yeah. I mean, they just run and run and run all the way into November. And it's glorious. Yeah, but you don't get there, or very rarely, do you get the, what you and I both love, which is winter storm morning, six to 12, expect. it over the next 12 hours. All right. I know.

Let's get to some football talk, and we'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Zabe is with us. He is in a vehicle headed to Dover to play cards with his father for a night. That sounds like fun. I've done that with my dad, by the way. We've done that a few times on kind of family trips where there's been gambling. We did it in Costa Rica together. Costa Rica?

I think that's where it was. That may have been the last time. Or Vegas actually was the last time with my dad. I think we were in Vegas together. All right. And my cards, you mean blackjack? Yeah. Blackjack.

It's always with my brother, my father, and I, it's always blackjack and I. It's always blackjack and craps. That's basically it. That's the only thing we'll play. I would love to learn. how to play a couple of the other games, but I mean, we're not sitting there pulling slot machines or, or, there's nothing to learn about. We're playing roulette.

Yeah. Okay. So on the blackjack front, I'm sitting here as I'm filming through my dad's printout of the latest edition of Stanford Wong's Blackjack Newsletter to which he subscribes, $109 a year. but it's got Intel on pretty much every slab of blackjack felt in the country. What's the rules? How many decks?

Are they auto shuffles? Do they have things like surrender? I mean, it's just absolute intel. Chad, is this casino fair that we're going to over now? He says they're okay. All right. But I tell you what, in Vegas, I believe there's fewer and fewer tables that even give you a fighting champ.

And we had a hunt when we went last summer, Dad, to go find a couple of decent three to two tables. They're all six to five with the side carnival games and the terrible rules and the auto shufflers. Not in Vegas. Not in Vegas or Atlantic City. Nah. Oh, no. No. Dad, tell Kevin. You're not on super much.

That is not as many good tables in Vegas. Right. Yeah, but they're going away because. Oh, really? You think the publications are helpful? and push back on the tightening of the rules? They don't even report six to five games. Oh, they don't know?

Yeah, they are carnival games, six to five. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, I'm going to sit there tonight, I'm going to sit there tonight and play the exact same way Dad plays. Same basic strategy, watch him win and me lose, and then he's going to peacock away from the table. I'm playing the same way, Dad. What's going on here?

You got to put the hamper into it as it does. Well, remember, they didn't build these places because a lot of people walked away as big winners all the time. But you know what? To me, I love dice. There's nothing more exciting than a hot dice table with a bunch of friends. That's always the best. But you get a good table. You play basic blackjack strategy.

You have, you know, several cocktails, great conversation. And who knows? You might walk away up a little bit, down a little bit, and that's usually what happens, and it's a fun night. Well, that's how I used to be with Blackjack all the time. But I've found that nowadays, I can't even enjoy one of those nights. Because it's getting harder and harder. Oh, well. I think the rules have tightened to the point where, I don't know, I can't win anymore. And it's not because I'm worse at playing. It's not because I'm doing anything different. I don't know what it is. Seems like those days. are over. I'd tell you, every time I sit down to blackjack, I get punched in the face immediately by the first three to five hands. Immediately. Never start out up winning three or four. Never.

Well, here's what I can't recommend as like, you know, a new fix, sports gambling. As much as I love it and do it, that's not a retirement strategy either. But anyway. By the way, do you think the lines are getting sharper in sports gambling because there's so much of a now, is it getting harder or no? I don't know that it's getting any harder. I think the biggest thing is that the legalized sports betting entities are super expensive. And, you know, like the sponsor of this podcast, My Bookie, you know, still has normal bigs and normal pricing and you're not getting gouged at minus 130 on a straight bet loss.

Like, but, you know. See, that's what's crazy. crazy and I think the newbie sports gamblers doesn't understand that and they don't even know how they're getting ripped off. And that's why they are continuing to pay it. And yeah, but keep in mind, you know, for a lot of those people, no offense intended, but what's the difference on paying $13 bucks on a $10 bet loss or $11? You know, because most of those betters are literally like 10, $120, $30 betters. But where it really starts to add up is when you're betting, you know,

when you're betting a few hundred bucks or more a game and you're paying minus $1.24 on a straight bet NFL loss. That's ridiculous. You should never do that. All right. Agreed. Do you know a week from today, it's very likely we will have a new owner of the football team here.

The Snyder era will have ended. I want you in your Zabe-like way to tell me how you either have or will describe, you know, the Snyder ownership situation over the last 24 years to someone who doesn't know anything about it. It was even worse than you think, and it was even more dysfunctional than you'll ever know. you and I know this because we know people that had been on the inside, that had relationships with the team and with the owner. And so we had intel we couldn't go public with, but it was reliable, and it would feel your eyelids back in terms of the, you've got to be kidding me, right?

And the answer is no. I'm shocked they won any game, to be honest. And I thought a lot of, really, like truly, I just with all the dysfunction that was in that run and the latest Don Van Atta deep dive on the emails

was just another final footnote into just how messed up everything was that at the end of it Snyder and Bruce Allen were at each other's throat and it was possible that Bruce Allen was trying to get

Snyder in trouble by Lee's and things or vice versa. I just had to chuckle to say, and he brought in Bruce Allen to be his drinking body to give him credibility around the league. Look how it ended up. That's how all of Snyder's relationships ended up.

He just possesses a singular knack to be a bad person time and time again. He never learned, he never moved a needle on who he was, never to understand what he can and can't do with a professional sports franchise

and the results are right there in black and white. When did you know, what was the moment you knew that this was not going to work with him as an owner? Do you remember when you realize this is going to be a disaster as long as he owns the team? I think once we got into the Zorn, the ask-o, the end of Gibbs 2, that's when you really realized it was hopeless. there was that renewed little shot of hope when he brought in Gibbs the second time dismaying as it was

to see Gibbs just sort of fall in line and go along, get along by bringing Vinny back into the fold and go out and buy free agents that didn't make the theme better but they thought Gibbs was like, oh, it's great,

we just buy players because the first time around Gibbs couldn't buy players. So the second time around, he's like, this is great, let's go buy some players. I got an owner with money, let's buy players.

and he's a NASCAR owner, of course he's going to think spending equal success. It does in that sport, but it doesn't in the modern NFL. So it was dismaying to see that, but Gaines somehow had a modicum of success there. And then the whole Zorn thing unfolded. The Zorn thing said to me, they don't know how to do the basics of an NFL team. They couldn't hire anybody for 33-D. days. They swapped around on a boat deck like a fish trying to figure out what are we doing. And then at the end of it, they told Zorn to put on a suit, come back in, interview for the head

coaching job, and they gave it to him. I think that would have been the point I would have said, okay, we're really cooked here. That was, you know, it's one of my favorite Tommy stories. Tommy was in the parking lot at Redskins Park, and Zorn is out in the parking lot on the phone with his wife and Tommy overhears him saying, no, honey, for the head coaching job. And he had to go and get a suit to go to the Snyders. By the way, I've always felt like my first moment of major doubt was Marty, him running Marty after one year when everything seemed to be heading in the right direction. But you're right about the Zorn era because it was the first time we started to realize

nobody good wants to come here. Now, he eventually attracted Mike Shanahan with a lot of money, but it was like in that moment, it's like, God, everybody around the league views this place as a complete shit show. And it was handled so poorly at the end with the bingo caller and Zorn, you know, the whole thing was just so embarrassing.

Yeah, other things revealed themselves to me, Like when we were the period where we were owned by the team and they were, we were doing shows out of Redskin Park because it was convenient for Cooley, which was quite convenient for me too, by the way. Yes, it was. Inconvenient for Galdi, but too bad for him. Love you, Galdi. Being in the park every day, I really saw the lack of attention and detail at every turn.

Things that I think matters, like broken. little landscaping lights that never got fixed in the property. The fading, skewed practice goalposts on the field they don't use anymore. Just suddenly leaning

out of whack. The fact that they didn't have a proper kitchen to feed their million dollar athletes who, you know, nutrition is very important. They were bringing in things like Papa Johns. Here, you need to

some food. Like, we're talking 15 plus years into Snyder's ownership and spending, who knows how much money on which players, coaches, and everything else, and he's not spending on this stuff. It's ridiculous. Lack of attention to detail, an unsurious franchise in which the owner treats it like a toy. It doesn't take good care of that toy either. I think you and I have gotten to the same place in recent years where the passion for the team that we always had growing up and through our adult years just changed. Like I've shared with my audience for several years running. I just don't feel the same level of passion for the team. He just sucked the life out of it for me, you know, and the last five, six years have been awful.

And I think you kind of feel the same way. When did that happen for you? Do you remember when it started to become more of, you know, not necessarily a job talking about them because we love football, but where you weren't as excited about Sunday at 1 as you used to be? Well, really, when the name died, the team died to me. And so I was going to have to find a new team to kind of root for anyway, even if I was still on the air in D.C.

and covering this team because I'm that way with sports and people that want to poo that I say to them if they're a Bears fan well what if they name the Chicago Bears

the Chicago Cougars they still see on the helmet but it was different different slightly different colors and you're the Cougars and you're being told you have to call them the Cougars the Chicago Cougars how would you feel about that

that's how I felt the team name was everything. You know, the history of the team. It's still preserved, sort of, but the edges of it are being hidden out of view because of political correctness. So that was always going to be a very tough thing.

But as far as just being exhausted with the, I don't feel good about the team, it was a three-fold combination. The name number one, the owner number two, and then the stadium number three. I mean, what a disaster of a stadium. Yeah. Would anything get you back?

Yeah, if they go back to Redskin. Tell me when that happened. Yeah, it's not going to happen. What should... If they had done a deaf sort of sidest to call themselves to the Red Wolves, which is what Smoot had been championed, and if they made the logo a R in a service, with instead of a feather, but a little wolf tail kind of thing,

and kept the exact same pantone burgundy and pantone gold, they would have had a shot with me. But then you're like, okay, look, we have to get rid of the name because it is what it is. But we're going to do as much as we can to evoke what the team was with that. other people like no let's get a new name no fresh start well how does a fresh start feel do you think commanders is catching on right now no no it's a disaster you think the logo do you think the logo is catching up you we're in the same we're in the same place i know well i'm asking you because you follow it more closely with me i've punched out uh do you feel you feel

you feel like I do that when you see somebody with an actual commander's piece of gear, hat, shirt, whatever, bumper sticker, that it stops you in your tracks mentally for a second to go, oh, hey, look, somebody has one of these. Because it does for me. You don't see a lot of it. I don't.

No. Not at all. And they've had a full year of this rebrand now, or not a full year, right? Or no, they have. No, yeah. They've had a year and a half, right? 2-22.

They've had enough time. And the whole notion of rebrand is that you're going to have this killer new logo and name to energize people's interest in buying gear. Oh, that hasn't happened. Yeah. Are you in favor of changing the name again when Harrison? Oh, 100%. This has been a running conversation with the audience where I think the biggest

problem I have right now are with the people that kind of lecture you to say, how can this even be near your priority list? You're a loser for thinking that way. I'm like, don't tell me about how I should feel. I feel the way I feel. If you feel like you're okay that they've moved on from the name and that you like the commander, that's fine. I mean, I don't have a problem with it, but don't do the lecturing of how people should feel. And by the way, you can do more than one thing at the same time. You can focus on winning, hiring a really good general. manager and focus on the brand. I would be very disappointed

if I found out that this new group didn't take seriously the brand, the current brand. Because Zabe, several of us, and maybe you did this too, I put out a poll like a month ago, you know, whether or not this should be a priority, and it was like overwhelming.

Like there were 5, 6,000 votes, and overwhelmingly people are like this should be a priority. Maybe not the top priority, a top three priority. And you can do all of those things simultaneously. I agree. Yeah. I agree. And it is a matter of parallel tracks where the people that are going to work on the new rebranding

of the name are not the ones that are going to be running the football operation. And in fact, it will help keep them from thinking about, hey, I just bought this team, should I start dabbling in the football side? if they're too busy with the name and the rebrand and file on the paperwork and all that other stuff, then good. To me, that's a bonus. Let the football people football.

So I do think it's a dual-track thing. Sure. And I think ultimately they're going to have to change it again because the old name has the desperate stink of Snyder's last Hail Mary to save the team, doesn't it? Yeah, I actually. don't really attach it to Snyder. I attach it more than Jason Wright and that

Will Misselbrook hit and run dude that came in and was significant in it. Look, I think a lot of that was the reason. Will Missilebrook was the chief creative officer. He's the one that said, we need a brand that, you know, is pop culture,

his food, is fashion. And I said, no, you don't. You need to focus on winning. And everything else will take care of it. But, you know, I also, Zabe, have talked about in the past, and I'm curious as to what you think about this, this conversation that we're having, and when I say we're, you know, fans, past, present, it's, it's our conversation. The rebrand or the rebrand should be a priority or not a priority is a conversation among family,

not outsiders, because if you're not a legit fan, current, or past, you can't relate. You know, you're an outsider to this conversation. you've never felt. You've never had that visceral sort of attachment like we have. I mean, you can have your opinion, but I'm personally not interested in the opinion of somebody who hasn't felt what we've felt before. I just don't think that it's appropriate to take their view seriously. Of course not.

No, I agree with that entirely. And it's also a factor of our age, we're old. And so we remember what it was right. There is a whole generation that has known nothing but Snyder their whole life. And so they've known no real, legitimate, excellent football. So their perspective is skewed by that. It'd be like you and I talking about how great TWA was as an airline. Eastern Airlines.

Eastern Airlines. My father-in-law always talks about how he had the Eastern Airlines, you know, top level, whatever. I'm like, Eastern Airlines, when did they? Mayfold, 1991, maybe. Super Bowl year, by the way. Dad, was Eastern Airlines any good? My dad, like you. Yeah, so did my father.

Love them. TWA, Western Airlines. Branniff. Branniff, sure. All right, other than the brand, what should Josh Harris' priority list look like? Or you can include, where would brand name change? It sounds like it's number one for you.

But what else should be on the priority list right when he takes over next week? Well, I mean, I'd say fire the coach, but some say, what good is that going to do you this year? Right. And I'd say, I'll give you that. I said if it tanks the season, the good will do you in the draft when actually Caleb, what's his name? Williams. Kevin Cal Williams. Tanking is an ugly thing.

it's a hard thing. It's not fair to the players who are on your team. It's not fair to good soldiers like Terry McLaurin, who's put up really good numbers with just a conga line of scrubs thrown on the ball. So I feel bad for that. But the problem with tanking is, as you know, it kind of works. Or it's kind of the best way to engineer a sharp turnaround. You know, maybe Sam Howell was good.

I'll be intrigued to see how he plays. I still think it's not a better than 50-50 shot. But you've got nothing else going on. I just, I'm not a Rivera fan. I lost faith in him quite a while ago. All right, two more. You've got a bunch of relatives in Philadelphia. What are they saying about Josh Harris?

I had Howard Heskin on the radio show this morning. What is the king? What did the king say? The king basically eviscerated Josh Harris and said Snyder's a zero. The only thing you can say is that Harris isn't as bad as Snyder, but he's got him at a one. He basically called him a carpetbagger and said he's an opportunist and it's all about money. It's all about making money. It's not about winning.

And as you know, he owns the Philadelphia 76ers. Yeah, and Harris is the. the owner that hired, what's his name? Darryl Mori. Well, yeah, Sam Hanky. Sam Hanky first, yeah. Yeah, Sam Hinky. So anyway, I don't know.

Harris has got to be better than Snyder. And I guess we're just going to have to see. But do your relatives in Philly have strong feelings one way or the other? No. Okay. No, my one sports fan relatives, brother-in-law Todd, who I have dubbed Todd, who knows just never, to be dangerous about sports.

Yeah. I've heard you refer to Todd that way. All right. Last one, I know you got a roll, and the tables are waiting. Should Josh Harris mention Dan Snyder at all when he is introduced as the new

owner in some sort of press conference late next week or the week after? No. Absolutely not. I've said this as well. Don't say anything. if it's perfunctory, even if it is so-called good business. I want to thank Dan and Tanya for making this transition smooth.

And then, no, no, persona, non-grada. I agree. Don't mention his name. You bought the team, you got the team, new day, new era. Who, what? I don't know who you're talking about. I agree with that. Good to catch up.

Let's catch up when you get back. Sounds great. Thanks, Kevin. Steve Zabin, everybody. I always enjoy our conversations, and I know we did a lot of golf that was unexpected, unintended, but I know some of you actually liked it. Some of you may have just fast-forwarded it to the football conversation, which is fine. Yesterday at the end of the show, I left you with this Howard Cosell Monday Night football intro

into a Redskins Cowboys game, and several of you tweeted me and said, loved listening to the end of the podcast, the Howard CoSell stuff. So I found something else, and I'll leave that with you here on our way out. Have a great weekend. Be back on Monday. Skins' offensive line is one of football's best, but today their reputation will be challenged by Lawrence Taylor and a fired-up New York defense. The Giants are confidently riding the crest of a six-game winning streak.

And with the right calls from Phil Sims, they hope to roll a sales. today. Giants also face some stiff challenges today. First, their defense must contain Washington's fleet receivers like Gary Clark. Pass blockers will have to contend with Dexter Manley, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. Manley relishes the spotlight, and today it shines brightly in the season's biggest game. But today's rematch is at RFK Stadium where the skins are hard to beat and where tickets are impossible to find. consecutive time.