The Kevin Sheehan Show - Expectations For New Ownership

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

Kevin and Thom today with a menu of excellence which includes a conversation about expectations for Josh Harris and the new ownership group. A week after Harris was voted in by the NFL, should there be expectations and if so, what. Plenty of conversation about Ron Rivera and Thom's upcoming month in Spain. Sean Payton, the Nats, and Ohtani were part of the show as well. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show today brought to you by the Circa Million and the Circa Survivor pools out in Vegas.

$14 million in guaranteed prizes. No rake. If the entries go above the guarantee, all of the extra money will go into the prize pool. You've got until September 9th at 2 p.m. to enter. The Circa million is pick five games every week, NFL games against the spread at the end of the year. If you've got the best record, you win a million bucks. But they've got another $5 million in guaranteed prizes. The Circus Survivor Pool, $8 million guaranteed to the winner or winners.

You pick one team each week to win, no spread. You can only pick that team one time during the season. If you're the last person standing, $8 million. The Circa Million and the Circus Survivor pools out in Vegas, the biggest and the best contests going. You do have to be out there to enter, but weekly picks can be made through a proxy from anywhere. Tommy, I'm going to be out in Vegas at the end of next week. And I'm going to go visit Cooley after I'm in Vegas for two days.

My oldest son who lives in Los Angeles, he's going to meet me in Vegas. We're going to do a quick two days in Vegas. My niece lives out there, so I'm probably going to see her and her brand new baby. We're going to try to work that out. I'm going to stop by the Circa. I'm going to enter each of these pools. Say hello to our good friends, Tim Murray, and, of course, hang out with Aaron a little bit, the producer of this podcast. And I might just gamble a little bit as well.

That might happen. You know, I should have done the coolly piece first because when I'm in Vegas, and you and I've been in Vegas together before, I just don't sleep much. There's not a whole lot of sleep. Anybody that has the gambling Jones that I've had throughout my life, especially when you're at a casino,

you know, you go up to the room and you're trying to fall asleep and then you're like, damn, I'm going to go back down. downstairs. And it just is not a lot of sleep that is had. But I'm looking forward to a couple of days in Vegas and then a couple of days with Cooley in Wyoming. And then I will be back. So by the way, heads up. End of next week, Thursday, Friday, and then the following Monday, more likely than not, we won't have shows, although it's possible I'll record a show before I leave. When's the last time you were in Vegas because there's there really hasn't been a fight to cover the mayweather pack yeah fight oh my god that's how many years ago is that uh i don't remember i don't remember

here's what i remember about it i was sick i had a leg infection i remember that and i checked myself out of the hospital to go to a cigars and curveballs event that monday night and then flew to Vegas on tuesday and then flew back Sunday and checked myself back in the hospital. I remember that, now. I do remember that. The fight, by the way, was 2015. May in 2015. You went, I did not go. That was a one-person deal. And Tommy went, because you and I were doing the show at the time. There were a couple of those fights where you and I were both out there together. But that particular fight you were out there.

We were post there for Mosley Mayweather, right? Mosley, Mayweather, Pachial Hatton. Yeah. And there may have been another one. Oh, yeah, the Mosley, that was, I sat with you at that fight. You and I sat together, you know, at that fight in the media section. We had pretty good seats for that fight, if I recall, in the media section. Well, the media section, the seats aren't as good as they,

used to be, but they're still good seats. Yeah, there's still good seats. Yeah, it's been several years since I've been out there as well. Yeah. I got a question to ask you about flying because I'm about to fly across the Atlantic to head to Spain. This is my last podcast. I know it is. Until September. Unless you feel like one day you just want to call in and tell me how the, you know, summer in Spain is going. Okay. Anyway, I noticed this when I was flying back from Key West, and I was sitting in an aisle, and my wife is sitting next to me in the middle, and there's a woman sitting by the window. And she has the window down the entire time. And I'm thinking, when did we, as a society, become so bored with looking out at the sky at 35,000 feet in the air?

It's funny. You know? I mean, I like looking out the window. Yeah. It doesn't happen that. You're not up there that much. Well, and if you're sitting, you know, in coach or, you know, premium economy, and you have the seats where there is somebody at the window and somebody in the middle and somebody on the aisle, it's the person that is next to the window that kind of controls the window situation. And, you know, I can tell you this, the flight attendants on long, you know, transatlantic flights, the windows are down so people can sleep.

Yeah, I understand. Yeah. On red eyes, I understand. Right. But I'm with you. I love when, look, from 35,000 feet, if it's clear and I can see, great. If it's just clouds I'm looking at, not interested. But I love looking out a window when I'm flying into a city.

By the way, I love looking out the window when I'm flying into this city. You know, especially certain, that runway, the Potomac River landing at DCA, at Reagan National, is one of the most beautiful landings of any landing at any airport in this country, I think. You know, when you're coming down and you get, you know, the monument and the Kennedy Center off to the left, and by the way, it's not the easiest landing for pilots. You know, they have to make that hard right. Yeah. It's a dicey airport to land at.

Yeah, it's that hard right turn, and then they've got to get it down quickly, and it's not the longest of runways either. But I love, you know, as you're flying down the Potomac, or, by the way, if you're coming up the Potomac from the south. Just looking out and seeing the city and trying to identify, you know, different areas and neighborhoods. Many, my house both currently and my house previously are in the flight path of that landing, you know, the beautiful landing into DCA. So there have always been planes flying over my house. And when I've been on one of those planes, more times than not, I can find my house. Certainly can find my neighborhood on that landing. I like looking out the window, too, is my answer to your question.

I've done that, too. When I used to fly in and out of BWI a lot when I lived in Columbia, I remember finding our house because we were clearly in a flight pass one time on a landing. And I came home and I told my wife, I said, you know, we should sell advertising on our roof because you can see our roof from the airplane. That's a good idea. What did she say? She said, Jesus, you're such an idiot. Yeah.

What did she say about the Hemingway contest? Was she all for this or not? She was a great soldier. She was on board for the whole thing. And basically, you know, sat there and for three nights in this hot weather, you know, sharing a bar stool with me. and she was a trooper. She was really good. I mean, much more support than I deserve.

Tommy's got a really good column. He talked about it on the podcast on Wednesday, but he's got an excellent column in the Times. You can access it through his Twitter account or mine. I just retweeted it this morning, and it's a really, really good column. I mean, a lot of these stories you told the other day, I just, I think that it's hard for me to believe that anybody had a better story or a closer connection to, you know, Hemingway himself, as you did interviewing the old man.

But like you said, there is an investment that needs to be made by you in this contest before they take you seriously. So we're a few years away from you being a legitimate contender. You weren't even on the board before this contest. In four or five years when we're talking about it, you may be one of the favorites. Now, my question... Well, I'm not doing. No more. No more.

The story alone should have made me a finalist. I was going to ask you that if you were to go back and do it again, would you go with the same 30-second story? You know, I don't think so. I don't know what I would do. Is there a better way that you could have presented this story? Huh? Is there a different way that you could have presented this story? Did you have any pictures of Fuentes?

Yes. Yes. I had a blown up picture of me and the old man. Yeah. You know, that's proof because anyone could go up there and say that they hung out with the old man and the old man in the sea. But I brought receipts. Tommy in his final paragraph of his column. you know, discussed that he is beginning his end of summer Spain trip for a month.

And he called it a decompress Danny retreat. But then you end with, you know, a big bang. I expect big things from Josh Harris and the new Washington commanders when I get back. We're all expecting some big things. Actually, I don't have any expectations. What are reasonable expectations for the first few years of new ownership? There's a question for you. What's a reasonable expectation level?

Super Bowl is not reasonable. You know, one of the best teams in the league record-wise over the next three years is not reasonable. What's reasonable? Here's what's reasonable. Competent and the best front office personnel you can get, the best. The best that's available out there. I expect this ownership to pursue the best. best personnel people they can find.

And along those lines, I expect them to do the same thing for a coach, for a head coach, the best that they can get. That's, you know, everything else will fall into place on the field if they do those things. Yeah. I treat your fans, your customers well, and be humble. that's the starting point because the fans, the customers have been treated poorly and the team has been arrogant for so long. So start with just treating people the way you would like to be treated and be humble. You know, second is what you just said.

I want them to go out and hire the best that they can hire to run the football operation. And then I want that person to truly be, along with the head coach and the players, the faces of this franchise. Okay, I don't want it to be ownership. I don't want it to be anybody on the business side of the operation. I want somebody who is a bona fide NFL, you know, senior VP of football operations and let that person make all of the football decisions, including hiring. the coach. Now, I'm not, you know, I'm not saying to Josh Harris, you can't be involved in the hiring of a coach. He's the owner. Of course he's going to be involved. But I, that's, to me, those are the expectations. And if those things are priorities, then you're going to end up

with competence and, by the way, some compassion for a recovering fan base. And I think people will feel good about it, that they are, you know, they are rooting for, or now they're back rooting for, you know, a normal functioning NFL franchise. In terms of the results on the field, that'll be determined by the person that they hire to run football operations. By the way, did you see, and I talked about this yesterday, did you see the Sean Payton comments about Nathaniel Hackett? Have you seen those? I did. You know, everyone worships at the altar of Sean Payton,

but this arrogant son of a bitch got suspended for a year from coaching. Let's not forget that. Well, Greg Williams had something to do with that, didn't he? Yeah, well, Greg Williams was a lone wolf. No, I know. Sean Payton seems like the kind of guy who's hands-on with everything. I talked about this. He may be a great coach, but he's also full of himself.

There is no doubt he is full of himself. He's also, as you said, a great coach. He also had a Hall of Fame quarterback for all of those years in New Orleans. You know, we are seeing, look, I'm not going to take anything away from Bill Belichick. I think Bill Belichick is at the top. Certainly if he's not the top, he's in the top two or three in the conversation. but he is 500 with one playoff appearance and no playoff wins since Brady left Foxborough for Tampa. Sean Peyton had Drew Breeze.

And by the way, not every one of those teams was a playoff team. Sean Peyton, the Saints had, I remember this, because their defense was horrendous. And it was part of the conversation about, you know, the elite quarterbacks. and can they overcome, you know, subpar everywhere else on the team? Well, Drew Breeze and Sean Payton together couldn't. There was a three-year period. I want to say it was 15, 16, 17, something like that, where they went seven and nine three straight years and missed the playoffs.

So, you know, which may also speak, by the way, to Drew Breeze, who is a Hall of Fame quarterback, no doubt. but I never felt like Drew Breeze was at the level of the top three or four elite quarterbacks in the game during his time. A great quarterback, Hall of Fame quarterback. But I don't know, I think. Not a Brady, not a Roger. I think a Rogers and a Brady. Not a Manning.

I don't know that they would have gone seven and nine with those teams. But for those that missed. Yeah, go ahead. Now, we've discussed this many times, but I think it's always worth warrant. is the list of coaches who have won Super Bowls with more than one quarterback is a very short list. Yeah. It's Joe Gibbs.

That's it, yes. Yes. I mean, Chuck Knoll won with the same quarterback. Vince Lombardi won with the same quarterback. Bill Walsh, one with the same quarterback. It was George Seaford, who won with Steve Young, not Bill Walsh. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. And Shula, you know, got to another Super Bowl without Greasy with Marino, but didn't win it.

Landry had, you know, Morton in a Super Bowl that he didn't win. The Super Bowls that he won were with Stauback at the helm when they won Super Bowl 6. And actually, Parcells won with two different quarterback. Yeah, that's right. Exactly. Parcell's one with Sims and Hosteller. Exactly. Yeah. So we are, we stand corrected on that. Yeah, I know. So on the Sean Payton thing, for those that missed it, Sean Payton eviscerated Nathaniel Hackett and the Bronco staff and organization for

for being what he called a part of, quote, one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL. He said, quote, it doesn't happen often where an NFL team or an organization gets embarrassed. And that happened here. Part of it was their own fault relative to spending so much bleeping time trying to win the offseason, the PR, the pomp and circumstance, marching people around and all this stuff.

We're not doing any of that. And then he made reference to the 2000 Redskins. He said, remember when Snyder put that dream team together? I was with the Giants. I was a young coach. I thought, how are we going to compete with them? Dion Sanders is there now. That team won eight games or whatever.

Just put the work in. I mean, just, yeah, there is, look, Sean Payton, we've talked about this many times, including the last week or so, and that gets into the hiring of a key football person. Sean Payton on XM Sirius, the Adam Shine show, you know, a few months ago, said that one of the Washington bidders reached out to him to gauge interest. And you and I talked about that, and I said I thought that was kind of Bush League. You know, Ron Rivera's coaching that team. That's, you know, that's kind of, I think, within the coaching circles, that's a no-no to say that you were contacted by ownership publicly. You don't go after a man's job like that.

Right. But more importantly, now, I think there's a pretty good chance that it was the Harris group that reached out to Sean Payton. Because Tommy, there's only three. It was either Harris, Apostolopolis, or Tillman Fertita. They were the only bidders. I don't think Bezos, I don't think Bezos ever was, I don't think he was ever close to even thinking about bidding on this team. if you were even going to be allowed. So I forget if I talked about this with you the other day.

You know that Josh Harris, who's in sports as an owner, Magic Johnson, who's in sports as a legend and an owner, they have reached out to people about being involved in running the football operation here. There's no chance that they haven't, right? Yes. Yeah, I mean, and on the business side, too, I mean, they have, I mean, this is a guy who owns two sports, you know, two North American sport franchises and own the piece of the Steelers. Right. I mean, he knows the people in the league, okay?

He probably knows who's the hot guy in front offices and who's not. You know, he knows who he probably wants and who he doesn't. And I'd be disappointed if Josh Harris had not reached out to Sean Peyton. Right. And not gauged his interest. I wouldn't want it to be public. But yeah. You know, as arrogant as he is, Sean Payton also has a very, he's very knowledgeable about this particular market and what this team meant to the city.

He spoke about that in that interview when he said, that one of the bidders reached out to him. And he talked about how great Washington was when he was in New York with Parcells and how it's just incredible to watch how the thing has crumbled over the last quarter century. You know, I don't know. Ron knew it too, but Peyton, because he was in the division and with Parcells, would have had a real keen sense as to what this opportunity was. but, you know, they couldn't do anything.

And he had to take the job in Denver with, by the way, a pretty strong ownership group as well. And that ownership group did not hire Nathaniel Hackett. Remember, he was already hired when they took over the team, the Walton Penner Group, last summer. But, yeah, somebody is going to have soon a list of people or a very short list of people that Josh Harris and Magic Johnson have reached out to. Don't you think? Yes, I do. Now, I believe that if they do their due diligence, Jim Harbaugh should be on that list. Look, he had an opportunity in Minnesota last year. They didn't hire him. He's had these

opportunities, and after interviews, he has not been the preferred candidate. when he walked in, appearing to be the preferred candidate. You know, after he didn't get the Minnesota job, he essentially said I'm at Michigan for good. He's going to get suspended, by the way, just for the first four games in this season. I know, for the first four games playing the little sisters that are poor in those games.

Yeah. But he's, you know, Michigan's made two straight final four playoff trips. They've beaten Ohio State two times in a row. And he is back, you know, in good graces with what is, you know, one of the true passionate fan bases in all of sports. If you want to, if you want to, I guess the guy who wore out is welcome in San Francisco, and that's his reputation,

although he's been at Michigan for a long time. So if you want a guy to make a big impact and also be a good football coach, knowing that you'll probably fire him after four years because you'll be sick of him. But still, you want to hit the ground running if you're the new owners. You don't want to be stupid about it. But investing in a guy who could be a short-term hire,

when I mean within like four or five years, a guy like Harbaugh, who's such high-profile star power, I think it's worth a look. Here's why I don't think Jim Harbaugh would be on the list. I think that Josh Harris has already mentioned analytics and data. Everybody that has studied Josh Harris as the owner of the 76ers understands that guys like Hinky and guys like Daryl Morey are the kinds of guys he likes. That's not Harbaugh. Harbaugh is straight old school and so is Rivera.

Rivera talks about analytics. I don't even think he understands what he's talking about when he discusses it. I think he's going to be looking for, you know, a Jeff Ireland or a Demetroff type, somebody like that, to come in as a true general manager and then let that person find, you know, a head coach that's a like mind with the GM and with the owner. That would be my guess, which actually is a good segue into the conversation you and I want to have, which is about Ron Rivera and this, you know, whether or not there's an opportunity for him to stick around. But we'll get to that in the next segment. But I don't think that Harbaugh is a Josh Harris or whomever he hires as the general manager

will be their kind of guy. That's just my guess. You're probably right in that sense and the football sense. But here's some analytics where it could make some sense without being a stupid hire. okay, attendance, in the stands, promoting the team. True, true. I think a presence like Jim Harbaugh would give them instant credibility

among the fan base. And it's not like you'd be hiring him just for that. He's a good football coach. Let's make that clear, right? He is. He is, Tommy. He is. He is.

He's won everywhere. he has gone. Sometimes I actually think that his brother is a better football coach. And I think John Harbaugh has been so underrated. Now, I think he's been too much into the, you know, in-game 2.4th-down analytics here over the last years, but, you know, basically getting sucked in by all of these people that don't understand that context and game situation have to play a big role in these decisions as well. And I've been critical of that with John Harbaugh.

But, man, there's something about what he gets out of his teams. And sometimes his brother has come up a bit short. By the way, including against his brother in the Super Bowl. Yes. Yes. Yeah. There are a couple of chiefs executives that are going to be, guys that get talked about for the upcoming season. Mike Borgonzi and Brandt Tillis are two guys that have been working in that organization for a while now.

There are some guys around the league. We'll see what happens with a guy like Ballard in Indianapolis if that works out with the new situation there. There are going to be some guys that are going to be listed. And to figure out which guys make the most sense, I think we're going to have to look at the guys that are heavy on data, heavy on analytics, and speak that Josh Harris language,

that Sam Hinky, that Daryl Morey language, even though I would argue that, you know, the NFL is completely different than the NBA when it comes to things like that. But anyway, I want to get to this conversation that I had on radio, yesterday with you about Ron Rivera and what he'd need to do to stick around in 2024. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.com or mybooky.ag use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to secure a first deposit bonus of $1,000, up to $1,000.

By the way, a week from today will be the day after. the first NFL preseason game. The Hall of Fame game is next Thursday. It's the Jets and the Browns. If you want to bet it, the Browns are one and a half point favorites and the total's 33 and a half. I doubt we'll see Deshawn Watson or Aaron Rogers in this game.

But think about this, Tommy. This is actually the last weekend without NFL football until the weekend after the Super Bowl. Well, I guess the weekend between the championship games and the Super Bowl. But starting next week, we've got a game on Thursday, and then the following week is week one, the first full week one of the preseason. So enjoy this final weekend without any NFL football. Technically next weekend doesn't have football.

It's a Thursday night game. But go to mybooky.com, mybooky.ag. By the way, the over under on Washington still at 6.8. and a half wins for the upcoming season. So what does Ron Rivera need to do to come back in 2024? I'll let you answer it first, and then you can quantify it as part of your answer, but I think it's a lot more than just a record. But go ahead, you take the first swing.

Well, you know, I don't want to say when the division. because he's already done that with a losing record. Right. Gotta win a playoff game. Got to win a playoff game. I think he's got to get the double-digit wins. Is that it? It can't be an accidental.

Yeah. I mean, what else is there? You must have something in mind. Well, I just thought I would get something a little bit deeper from you. What's so difficult about it? Well, I'll tell you why it's difficult because of what we were just talking about in the last segment. I don't think that Ron Rivera, more likely than not, is a good fit for Josh Harris. Ron Rivera is an old school coach. Remember, Tepper took over. Tepper was big into data and the whole thing.

He kept Ron for that first year and then cut him loose when they fell to five and seven after they lost to Washington. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody, in that second year. Ron Rivera is an old school coach. So is Jack Del Rio. The staff is totally old school, including B'Enemy. And I just see the only possibility. On radio yesterday, I said it's got to be double-digit wins, 10 wins minimum, and one playoff win. And the other part of that would be...

That's what I just said. I know, but that's all you said. The other part of that would be Ron has really proven to Josh that he's the guy that shares the vision for a sustained run. And the other part of that would be the quarterback that they got Sam Howell right. Because you could go 9 and 8 or 10 and 7 and get into the postseason and win a game flukishly with Jacoby Brissette in that defense. but that isn't a future. That's not sustained winning with a chance to win the Super Bowl

in the next three to five years. So I think there's a lot more than just the record. But the record is crucial because without the record and without a playoff appearance, well, then it's an easy decision for Josh. But I still think there's actually a way he could win 10, win a playoff game,

and not be back. if he's not the right fit, if Jacoby Brissette was the starting quarterback. If the quarterback question is still a question mark at the end of this upcoming season, which means... I'll grant you that. The quarterback issue is a big component of it. You're right about that. That's Ron's biggest mistake. He's got a track record here of screwing it up every single year. No doubt. Because you can, and I've done this and Some of you have reached out and you have essentially told me that you have vomited in your mouth as I have said nice things about Ron Rivera the last couple of shows. But you could make the case that this roster, as we've said before, is the best overall roster that they've had in years.

Okay? A lot of the best players understood were not selected by this particular group, but many of them have been. But Ron screwed up the quarterback year in and year out. And that's the biggest, you know, negative in terms of Ron, the GM. They haven't gotten the quarterback right. And by the way, he was adamant last year before the Chicago game about how right he was about Carson Wentz. And so he's messed that up. And really, you know, he messed up potentially the first opportunity he had in 20.

to get the quarterback because he gave in, I think, on the idea that Snyder wanted to see Dwayne Haskins through. And I don't believe that Ron Rivera was bought into Dwayne Haskins when he took the job. I'm not saying that he didn't think that there was a chance. But what made that easy, by the way, for them in terms of justifiably, you know, at any point in time. In the moment, Chase Young was considered to be the best pass rushing prospect coming out in the draft since probably Miles Garrett or Von Miller. And so no one, I wanted him to select Chase Young. And there was very little criticism of not picking Tua or

Justin Herbert. I know some of you who are listening have said, you know, remember Sheehan, I told you they needed to take Justin Herbert or Tua, you're right. You turned out to be right. But the overall was, yeah, Chase Young was the right pick. Obviously, you go back and redraft and you take Justin Herbert, you know, and it's not even a thought. Anyway, I don't, personally, I think, you know, this is Ron's last year as the head coach. I think it's definitely Ron's last year as the head football decision maker. He's not going to have both jobs this time next year. The only way that happens is if they go 12 and 5, 13 and 4,

and they're in the Super Bowl, or at least in the NFC championship game. That's the thing about Ron and the name. If the commanders and Ron Rivera, if they end up being the surprise team of the NFL, and they win 13 games, win the division, have home field advantage, and go to the Super Bowl. Ron Stang, and so is the name more likely than not. It's not saying I'm going to be sitting here rooting against them having a good season, but the truth is they're not going to the Super Bowl this year. They're not anywhere near as good as Philadelphia or San Francisco or Dallas or four.

Look, their six and a half number is there for a reason, although I can. kind of like the over again, like I did last year. And I won on their over last year. I've always liked the over. Every year that they've given it out for the past four or five years, I've picked the over. Yeah. Have you? Yes. Hmm. But it's been seven and a half most years. Right. Okay.

By the way, you know, talking about the 2020 draft, I saw something a few weeks ago, and I'm trying to find it right now. USA Today did a redrafting of the 2020 draft, and there was something in there that totally surprised me. And it was where Chase Young was picked. Washington was number two. Remember, Cincinnati picked Burrow. Still no word specifically on the injury to Burrow yesterday. You know, it's non-contact.

It's the calf. I haven't seen anything definitive on the injury. It doesn't seem like it's so serious, but who knows. But Cincinnati, you know, takes Burrow again. Washington takes obviously Justin Herbert. But what was surprising, and I'm trying to pull up that list here, is that Chase Young was picked, I think it was seventh. Like he only dropped to seven.

Here it is. The redrafting 2020, this was in USA Today in earlier this month. Joe Burrow won, Justin Herbert to Washington, 2, Justin Jefferson to Detroit 3. That makes sense because Okuda was the third pick there. Andrew Thomas to the Giants at 4. Jalen Hertz to Miami at 5, not Tua. Tua to the Chargers at 6.

And Chase Young to the Panthers at 7. Seriously? I mean, he still has talent. I get it. But I would have thought, when I saw, that I'm like, I don't know, if I'm redrafting 2020, I am dropping Chase Young further down that list.

Like, I'm looking at guys, you know, Jonathan Taylor, T. Higgins, C.D. Lamb, Trayvon Diggs, Tristan Wirthes, all were redrafted after Chase Young. Speaking of Chase Young, I did watch his presser with after practice yesterday. And he does seem to be, as he, he was for the mini-camp that he showed up for.

He seems to be super confident. And it seems like he wasn't super confident. He was more hesitant last year. I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of year Chase Young has because he is talented. I mean, he's talented. And if there's growth maturity-wise and otherwise, and he plays to the level that we thought he could play at

and that he was playing at the end of his rookie year, look out, this defense will be dominant. Dominant. Yes, because look what they did with Chase Young basically added a picture. Right. Yes. Guess who is on the semi-finalist list for the Hall of Fame? Joe Jacoby. We'll get to that and more, including an unbelievable doubleheader for Shohei Otani yesterday.

We'll get to all of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's. Shelly's back room at 1331 F Street Northwest. It's going to be pretty hot today and for the next couple of days. And I've always referred to Shelley's as an oasis. And that's exactly what it is. You walk into Shelly's, you know, you've got this beautiful, nice wooden powder. panels all around you, these beautiful, comfortable, big cushion chairs and couches, great lighting.

It's the kind of place. You know, I used to like to go to the movies in the afternoon. By yourself? In the middle of the afternoon, sometimes on days like this, because I had the feeling that you could go in there and the world could end outside and you wouldn't know about it. You know, because you were protected. in this, and this, because that's the way Shelly's is. You're protected in there.

You're protected from the outside forces, and you're given a gift of the inside forces of great liquor, great food, and the best cigars you can find anywhere. Shelly's Backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest, and the district. You can find more about them. Go to shelley's Backroom.com. Rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify, if you get a chance. It's really helpful for us. It takes 30 seconds. You could pause the podcast right now if you haven't rated us and reviewed us. Five stars, a quick one to two sentences is really helpful. This from Muhammad, who gave us five stars entitled his review, Kevin and Hemingway. Kevin, as a listener from 2011, from 2011, who has never called in. It was great to meet you on Thursday.

at the bullpen. Yeah, there were a lot of our listeners there, Tommy. I wish you had been with me. I appreciate your hospitality and speaking with all of your listeners. I will never understand people who say the name doesn't matter, such as the listener Evan who wrote you this week. Perhaps it wouldn't matter in another city, in any other city, but it means something here because the Redskins meant something. People act like commanders is replacing some generic name, but it's attempting to hold the same weight as one of the greatest sports brands of all time and failing miserably in its attempt. Anyways, I'm really looking forward to Tom's return this week and getting his thoughts on the

ownership change. The aura of self-destruction is over. Keep doing what you do, and I hope to hang out with you and hopefully Tom next time as well. Thank you very much, Muhammad, for that review. I really appreciate it. This from Heatsky, by the way, perfect name for this week, because it is excessively hot. Third generation fan gave us five stars on Apple. I've been a Washington fan since my first game at RFK in 1970 when I was three. My family had season tickets for over 70 years.

Win or lose, I will always be a fan. Kevin Sheehan is the kind of football genius that makes following this team fun and informative, even through all the ups and downs. I never miss a show. Tommy, That's a first. Thank you very much, Heatsky. I'm a football genius. Maybe they should hire me to be the general manager of the team next year. That was very nice. You haven't written a letter asking them to do that yet, have you?

No. But you know what? Scott always makes fun of me for a letter. I think I've told this story before. I'm sure I've told this story before. So Norv Turner was the coach. It was, you know, 1996 or 19. or whatever. And they were down by one point and had no timeouts left. And the other team was

running regular plays. Well, we now know, you know, some 25 years later, well, you try to let them score. And then you're down eight and you get the ball back and you actually have a chance, right? And Norv had his defense tackling people as the clock ran out and they lost by a point. So I sent via Federal Express a letter to Norv Turner. And Scott to this day still makes funny me. He's like, you're a clown. You think he's going to read that letter? What are you doing?

Like, he's a foot. He's getting paid millions. You're just on your couch watching. And I said, still, I'm right. Like, I am right, and I'm going to write this letter to him. wrote a letter to Norv Turner, and instead of mailing it, I federal expressed it, thinking, well, he'll get it because it's being sent Federal Express. And I explained to him that in that particular game, if he had just let them score, he would have gotten the ball back with an actual chance to tie the game with a touchdown and a two-point conversion. and all I got back maybe like three months later was this form letter from, you know, signed,

was stamped signature of Norv Turner saying, thank you so much for being a great fan, thanks for your interest, go Redskins, exclamation point. So that's all I got back. But you needed, you needed Norv to be like George Allen. Right. Remember, Charlie Tassily wrote to all NFL teams. asking for a job. Now, Charlie Cackley was a high school football coach at the time.

Yes. And he wrote to all NFL teams asking for any kind of job, anything. You know, and I think there were two. I think Chuck Knox was one of them, maybe. I could be wrong about that. But George Allen was another one. And basically, George Allen gave him an unpaid internship job. Yeah.

And Charlie parlayed into being. an NFL general manager, not only here in Washington, but in Houston. Right. So that's what you need, you need a nor have a little bit more George Allen in him. Say, Kevin, you can come here. I can't pay it. But here's a broom. Maybe I should have sent it to Charlie.

That's probably, I should have sent it to Charlie Casserly. Because Charlie may have appreciated that. Yes. Or he would have. Yeah. But anyway. So Joe Jacoby made it to the next step. which is a semi-finalist for the senior committee for the class of 2024.

That's not this year's class, okay? This year's class gets inducted next week, you know, with the Hall of Fame game, which we'll watch between the Jets and the Browns. We'll watch at least a series or two of it. But the next step is for the committee to meet in August to select up to three senior candidates. The finalists will be part of the. class of 2024 if they are supported by at least 80% of the voters. There are 12 candidates that the list was whittled down to.

Those candidates include Roger Craig, Ken Anderson, who I think you can make the case, should be in the Hall of Fame. Randy Gratashar, Otis Taylor, Tommy, Art Pal, Maxie Bond, Joe Jacoby, Albert Lewis, Steve McMichael, Eddie Meador, Sterling Sharp, and Al Wistert. Those are for the senior part of the Hall of Fame. So look, I think Jake's going to eventually get in. I do. And I hope it's this coming class. You know, if there are three out of this list, if they're going to whittle this list down to three, I think it's Ken Anderson, Otis Taylor, and Joe Jacoby. Those would be the three.

By the way, Mike Shanahan and Marty Schottenheimer both ended up making the next stage for the contributors and coaches entry into the 2024 Hall of Fame. So they've advanced in the Hall of Fame consideration as well, and we've been through this. But to me, Schottenheimer and Shanahan both belong in the Hall of Fame. I agree. I sent me something a few weeks ago saying. I'm not familiar with this individual. Ian, long-time caller. He calls all the time.

He used to call us. I don't remember who he is. Oh, that's right. You had a beef with him. Sorry. Well, this guy, Joe, sent me this note about Schottenheimer, saying Schottenheimer doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. You've got to have one.

You've got to have at least gotten to a Super Bowl to be in the Hall of Fame. And I pointed out that Don Corrielle is in the Hall of Fame, and Don Correale never went to the Super Bowl either. I don't think that that's a prerequisite. Marty is seventh all-time and wins. He's top 10 all-time win percentage. It's his playoff record, obviously, that has held him back. Everybody knows that.

But Marty was for his generation of coaches, one of the most respected coaches, and one of the best coaches in the game for multiple decades. And Mike Shanahan, beyond the fact that he's won two Super Bowls, was truly an innovator in the game as well. You know, all of this discussion about the running backs, you know, and running backs being devalued. And people talk about, you know, when did that begin? It began with Mike Shanahan after Terrell Davis retired. And Mike Shanahan was using guys like O'Landis Gary and Tatum Bell and eventually Alfred Morris and Ryan Terrain,

who were running for big yards in the zone run scheme, which Alex Gibbs was a big part of with Mike Shanahan as well. So I think both of those men deserve Hall of Fame consideration, and hopefully Jake will get in as well. I really hope it's – I don't want to continue to have this conversation about Jake. Randy White and Lawrence Taylor, who are two of the greatest NFL players at their positions in history. To me, Lawrence Taylor is the greatest football player of my lifetime, the greatest NFL player, offense or defense of my lifetime. both of them have said Joe Jacoby is a Hall of Fame tackle, period. So I just... Absolutely.

You know, and I'm going to make this commitment now. I'm not going to put you on the spot to make the same commitment. If Jake gets in the Hall of Fame, I'm going out there. I'll go with you. I've never been to Canton, so that would be one of the reasons I'd want to do it. But if Jake gets in, we're going. We're going. By the way, it might be one year from today.

Yes. Good luck, Jake. Absolutely. So a couple of other quick things. Colorado is leaving the PAC 12 for the Big 12. The PAC 12 is going to disappear people. I mean, the PAC 8, the PAC 10, the PAC 12. UCLA and USC are gone.

And now Colorado, who was not a long time PAC, Pact 12 member. Now the discussion is Arizona State and Arizona, potentially to the Big 12. We've already heard the discussion about Oregon. West Coast college football, the Pact 12. You know, it's late October, early November, starting to get cold on the East Coast.

The sun's already down and it's 4.45 in the afternoon. And there on ABC is UCLA against Oregon. from the Rose Bowl or USC in the Coliseum against Arizona. And we're still going to have those schools playing football, but they're going to be playing football in different leagues, and the PAC 12 is going to cease, I think, to be a Power 5 conference. Just, I hate all of this. I hate all of it.

Colorado moving is not a big deal, because Colorado's been a bit of a vagabond anyway. But no PAC 12? The PAC 12 basically becoming a nothing league? I mean, who's going to be left? Washington, Washington State, Stanford, Cal, maybe one of the Arizona schools, maybe one of the Oregon schools? I mean, it is going to be small time, Utah, I guess.

Anyway, weird, the whole thing. There's a lost sense of tradition in college football these days. Totally lost, and yet it's still so great. It's still the greatest sprint of a regular season in all of sports for me. The college football regular season, and I think it'll still feel this way when the playoff has expanded. I don't think that the expansion of the playoff is going to mean much because these games are still going to be significant games.

They won't be elimination games, but they will late in the season from one of those spots. But it starts, you know, Labor Day weekend, actually the weekend before. And it's over, you know, with the conference championship weekend in early December. And it is great. I mean, I've said this for years, and I am being totally honest and sincere. I think I like college football just a little bit more than pro football. Saturdays to me are better than Sundays. And I love Sundays.

But man, college football is great. And yeah, there is a sense of, well, where are they now? You know, we've had this for a while. Yeah. But it's really going to be weird when UCLA and USC are playing Maryland, you know, in a big 10 game. By the way, the Terps are going to be good in football this year. Lox is going to, he's got his best team coming back. They've won two straight bowl games.

I'm looking forward to Maryland football this year. I think he'll be good as well. He's done a better job than I thought he would have. Done a great job. And once UCLA and USC enter the league, they will go away from the divisions and the schedule will become more manageable. They won't get Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State every single year. that's been really, really difficult in the Big Ten for them.

So how about Otani and a doubleheader yesterday, Tommy? He pitched a shutout in the first game and then hit two home runs in the second game. A one hitter, I think. I think it was a one hitter. It was a one-hit shutout in the first game yesterday. and he then hit two bombs in the second game. Are you kidding me? This is the first time anything like this has ever happened. Yes, this is beyond the scope of imagination.

This is unprecedented. There's no comparable to this. I mean, I just wish it was on a bigger stage. I just wish there was more attention being paid to it. because it's such a remarkable task. And like I said, I would have done, the Angels did not trade Otani. They decided to go all in on a run to make the wild card and the playoff. Well, it's not over yet.

It's just traded for Lucas Gioly. I know, I know. Because of the Gialito trade, that means they're not trading Otani. They're going for it this year. Right. And I've adopted a philosophy, and it's totally arbitrary. that if your team is within five games of a wild card at the trade deadline, then you want them to compete for that wild card.

Don't raise the white flag when your team is only five games out of a wild card spot on August 1st. Okay. I'm looking at the standings right now. Five games out in the American League wild card race are the Cleveland Guardians, and they are a game over 500. The Cubs are four games out, and then the Padres are six and a half games out. They're five games under 500. So the Padres, you would be okay if they're a seller, but you would not be okay if the Cubs are a seller.

No. Yeah. Okay. No, that's my – and the reason I – that's the number I came up with from when the Orioles in 96 were five games out of the – what was then only the second year of the wild card. And Pat Gillick, who I respect tremendously, was ready to break the team up and trade for some prospects because he was used to competing for division titles. And Peter Angelo is the only time of his life in baseball, said, no, we're not going to break them up. And they were about five games out of the wild card.

So I think that's my arbitrary number. I watched the Nats game, and then the reins came in the 8th, and I actually looked at the result this morning. I didn't stick around for the resumption of the game. But, man, they have been playing well. Josiah Gray pitched awesome last night. Dickerson had an unbelievable catch in the outfield. C.J. Abrams, except for the last at bat,

had some really, really good at bats again. They're really, you know, they had won seven of nine coming in, and they lost a 2-1 decision on a sack fly last night late in Queens. But good on the Nats, that they are really pesky as a team with that young talent that everybody hoped would be the foundation for something down the road, really proving itself. So I'll ask you with the trade deadline a few days away, who's getting dealt? Candelario, Thomas, who's getting dealt? Candelario is getting dealt. Okay.

He's their most tradable commodity. Thomas, my position is the same, I think, is Mike Rizzo's, in that if he gets an offer that he can't refuse for Thomas, he'll take it. Okay, otherwise, they'll hang on to Thomas, who's under contract for two more years, okay, which makes him attractive. he's under control of whatever team has him. You know, the question of Thomas is, is he at his peak? Is this the best Thomas can be?

Or is this how Thomas will continue the rest of his career? Either way, unless you get a deal that knocks your shocks off, you hang on to this guy. Because even if he has shown that even if this isn't his best year, he's good enough, like I said, to be a fourth outfielder on a pennant-eague. contending team. Right. And would be a valuable commodity to have. So I wouldn't trade Thomas unless they had a great offer, but I think Candelario is

going, maybe one or two in a relief pitchers, Hunter Harvey, somebody else will be going. So the Nats are playing just great, just in time to lose some of their key parts for the rest of the season. But you talked about, like, C.J. Abrams has really broken out. Oh, yeah. You know, and he is the shortstop of the future. There are two young pitchers. Here we are on the brink of August,

and Josiah Gray is still pitching outstanding baseball. You know, I think, what, when he pits six innings, have shutout ball yesterday, maybe, or I forget what it was. Yeah, he was great. And McKenzie Gore, pitching well too. He pitches tomorrow, I think, against Scherzer, or is it tonight? I don't know. I'm looking.

I think he's matched up. against Max. Tonight, it's Gore against Max Scherzer. I mean, Calvert Louise had been a bit of a disappointment, I think, for them, and the jury's down to him, but three added, and you've got Louise Garcia at second. You've got four out of their five real prospects on that team that have been performing well for them. That's a pretty good hit so far. I think they're going to be pretty competitive next year, depending on who owns the team, depending on which ownership is committed to spending money

to complement these young players. They can't go through another season of an $80 million payroll open to compete. You know, you've got to bring in some talent to surround these young players and the young players like a James Woods and Kate Cavali, who may be coming up next year. C.J. Abrams is hitting 338, and he's got a 398 on-base percentage in the month of July. I mean, those numbers would put him in the top three and four in the entire major leagues if that was first season. He's really broken out. All right, look, you're heading out. When are you heading out tomorrow? On Monday morning. You're leaving Monday morning.

So theoretically we could do a podcast together on Sunday one last show. I'm kidding. Yeah. Where are you going? I forget. You're going somewhere north, right? I'm going somewhere north of Madrid, a town called Las Navillas. It's a small mountain town.

Right. Maybe about a half an hour away from Segovia. an hour from Madrid. It's the kind of place where people go to escape the hot summer of Madrid. And there's a lot of my wife's relatives who spend their summers in this town, and that's what we're going to do. We've got a huge house. I've got a beer keg on tap that'll be waiting for me when I get there,

courtesy of one of Liz's cousins who owns one of the two bars in town. Oh, really? And I hope to do a little bit of writing, not newspaper writing, but, you know, my own little project kind of writing. How's that going? How's the screenplay, the treatment thing going for your... It's not a treatment. It's a screenplay. The screenplay.

How's the screenplay coming along? And is Howard helping? Well, Howard is out of the country right now, I think. He is. Yes. So he's, you know, got things on his plate. he's a very busy man, but he has some in his possession, and he has had discussions with them. And, you know, look, I got a lottery ticket, and they haven't picked the winner yet, okay?

All right. I'm praying for that. I mean, I think I would certainly be invited to the Emmy Awards, or is it a TV show or is it a movie, I forget? It's a movie. It's a movie. You'll be invited to the red carpet premiere. Yeah, that's what I want to make sure I get an invite to. Yeah, now I'm going to be working on another screenplay. I'd like a mention. I'd like a mention when you get your Academy Award, when you're listing all the people that help get you there. You know, I will. All right. We're done for the day. Have a good weekend back on Monday.

Tommy, have a great trip. All right, boss.