The Kevin Sheehan Show - #ExtendBruceAllen

Episode Date: May 2, 2019

Kevin opens with a discussion about the introduction of the hashtag, "ExtendBruceAllen" and the claim by some that the local media has been unfair to Allen and Dan Snyder. Kevin follows up on yesterday's conversation with ESPN's Dianna Russini. Kevin talked a bit about Skins' Director of College Personnel Kyle Smith's interview with Larry Michael/Redskins Nation. Scott Van Pelt on the show today talking Caps, NBA Playoffs, Tiger Woods, NFL Draft, and Game of Thrones. Kevin finished up the show talking to his friend Howie Kra (Howiedoinit.com) about the IPO debut of Beyond Meat which is led by a local entrepreneur. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. Aaron is still here. And he's not going anywhere. Despite the fact that he got a great new job. And I'm thrilled for him. Aaron's going to be Tim Murray and Michael Jenkins producer at NBC Sports Radio starting next week. Yep, sorry next week. But you're still going to be able to do this as well, which I'm thrilled about. but congratulations to Aaron on the new gig. Murray and Jenks have a great show on NBC Sports Radio.

A lot of gambling discussion, and Tim's been a close friend for a long time, and they're doing really well, so I'm thrilled about that. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them that we told you to call. The Nats lost again last night.

5 to 1 at home to the Cardinals. That's three straight at home to the Cardinals. They finish up their four games set with the Cardinals this afternoon at 405, a 405 start at the park. I think there's rain in the forecast. Oh, lovely. In the forecast. But it's now six of seven losses, six of the last seven games. The one game they won, they trailed six nothing in.

And that was to the Padres on Sunday, and they had to rally and win that one in 11 innings. for Scherzer, it is now the fifth time in his six starts that they have lost. Primarily run production, but not all of it just because of run production. He wasn't great last night, and they were banged up, and as they have been banged up. And I was actually listening to somebody tweeted out some of the conversation that Mike Rizzo had with the junkies yesterday on JFK. and, you know, he came off as a little bit defensive in my view. Did you hear it? I did not hear it, but generally when he talks and talks to the media,

when it comes to things like that, he does get a little bit defensive. So that doesn't surprise me. I like Rizzo a lot. Always loved before he, you know, became a regular fixture and a paid fixture on JFK, used to always love having him on the shows that I was a part of. with Tommy in particular at 980. I like Rizzo a lot.

I love he is a tough SOB, feisty, competitive, and I think he's really smart. But the bottom line is they are injured. I mean, no Rendon, no Turner. Last night, no Soto, no Zimmerman, right, last night. Yeah, Zimmerman's on the IL. Yeah, so they are struggling to generate offense, certainly enough offense to,

stem this run of losses. In their last seven games, they've lost six times. They've produced in several of them not enough runs, three runs, three runs, two runs, and last night just one run. They haven't had a game that they've lost, except for the Sunday game. Well, they won that game seven to six, but they lost the game nine to five, the loss in Colorado that started this six losses in seven game stretch. That was about the only game where they produced enough offense. But their starting pitching hasn't been great either. Patrick Corbyn was great until his last start, where he wasn't so good. Strasbourg's actually been pretty good as of late, and he gets the start today this afternoon. But, you know, the Nats are 12 and 17. Yeah.

This is as badly as you could have thought. As bad as you could have thought that they could have started the season. a season that many thought would end in division title in a run-of-the-world series. Look, I mean, this game, you know, it's hard to say one game is must-win, especially in May. It's a huge game. You think it's a must-win today?

I think it's a, I think if they lose this game, go out on that road trip, as I said, you know, we talked about this a few days ago. It's this 10-game road trip where I think they need to come home from that, you know, less than five games under 500. So if they lose today, they are six games under 500. That puts a lot of pressure on that team to do very well on a very tough road trip.

And if they don't, I don't know that Dave Martinez comes back as the manager. When you say comes back next year? Or do you think comes back from the road trip? Well, who's the replacement? So we talked about this a few days ago and I didn't have a great answer for you. And then I did a little digging. There are two possibilities I found. One, I really like, and I think they might go this direction.

Randy Knorr is the manager in AAA right now. Randy Knorr, if you remember, almost got the job several times. He was the bench coach for a long time. Almost got it after Davey Johnson was fired and was considered at least briefly after Matt Williams was fired as well. They didn't decide not to go in that direction, despite there being a lot of support for him. So if you're looking for kind of a feel good, something that the fans could get, behind. Randy Knorr's that answer. I also know they like Matt LaCroix, who's the double A manager a whole lot. They've liked him a long time. He was the bullpen coach up here

for a while. They think he is a future manager. So I think those would be the two directions to go with. I would, if I had to guess now, Randy Knorr would be the big, I'd be looking at him right now. Is this a big bold prediction from you? Randy, nor, let's take it one step at a time. Can you realistically think that they're going to have a really good road trip at Philly at Milwaukee and at Los Angeles. No. Especially with what they have injury-wise, which, by the way, if, you know, again, if you listened to any part of the Rizzo interview with the junkies yesterday, you know,

he talked a lot about the injuries. And to me, that is a, you know, for Dave Martinez, that is going to be something that they will point to and say, look, what's he supposed to do? We've got, you know, arguably two of our best, you know, three or four players out. And last night didn't produce any offense, one total run without Soto in the lineup. That hurts. I think you got to wait until they're back healthy, especially if you're still, you know, if nobody's pulling away in this race.

Well, but in my situation, you're talking about, you know, let's say they go four and six. They lose today and go four and six. What are they going to come back? Five out, six out, not much more. I mean, if they, let's say they get swept by Philly or they lose two out of three to Philly, all of a sudden, you're talking seven, eight out. I mean, already they're four and a half out. If they lose today and then they go, let's say they go four and six on a road trip,

including losing two of three to Philly. They're probably seven or eight out. Yeah. Well, long season. It's a long season. They're going to go ahead and play the other 140-something anyway. Oh, they're absolutely going to. But I don't know.

I think there's a lot of starting to be built up anger towards Dave Martinez, whether, you know, because even before the injuries, he was, you know, It's not like they were going through people, and then all of a sudden they hit injuries and started skidding. They've been skidding for moment one here. Yeah, so if you want to have me make a bold prediction, by Memorial Day, Dave Martinez is out. There you go.

You heard it here first from Aaron Oster, the producer, editor, social media manager for the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast, and soon to be the producer for NBC Sports Radio Show with Tim Murray and Michael Jenkins. All right. A lot to get to today. Van Pelt will be a guest a little bit later on. But a lot of things to get to.

First of all, from Bryce on Twitter, Gruden and Torrico, they were a two-man booth, right? Yeah, they were. We missed that one yesterday, obviously. Because the Monday night booth now is going to be Booger McFarlane and Joe Tessator, two-man booth with Lisa Salters on the sideline. And we were trying to come up with recent two-man booths, and we just completely forgot about Gruden and Toriko, which I felt was a very good booth.

Next thing I wanted to get to was the Redskins are not picking up the option, fifth year option on Josh Doxon. That is not a surprise. It does not mean that Josh Doxon won't be a significant part of what they do this year. And Josh Doxon now knowing that he doesn't have a contract for 2020 is going to be playing for one. You know, the question about Josh has never been talent. It's always been, does he have enough interest in fire in the belly? I mean, that's really it, netting it out.

And, you know, that's one of those things. I was dead wrong about Josh Doxon. I loved him at TCU. He was a phenomenal performer. He had every single thing you'd look for in a college receiver, you know, translating to the NFL. But the things that we never know about, right? and all the due diligence, the personal stuff, the psychological stuff, does he love football stuff? And I think it's been clear over his first three seasons that it's been a struggle to, you know,

to clearly say that this is something that is, you know, the end all be all for him. There's just been something missing from it. You know, early on it was a claim from some that it was homesickness. and I know that at TCU he was very introverted and very shy and had gone away from school at a high school for one year and then transferred back to Texas to be close to home. But, you know, he's a professional earning a lot of money at the professional level. If he wants this to be a career and a long-term career

where he makes, you know, a lot more money than he's made off of a rookie deal, he's going to have to prove something this year. It doesn't mean that somebody, if he has a, another subpar year that somebody won't roll the dice that they can figure him out next year, but it's not going to equate to a big contract. I still think, you know, despite what the Redskins drafted in the optimism over McCorrin and Harmon, you know, that Doxon is still going to get a really good shot, you know, along with Richardson and Trey Quinn and et cetera, but he's got to come with a lot more, probably early on to turn this into what could be.

you know, who knows, maybe the breakout year. It'd be perfect timing for him, especially now that the Redskins haven't picked up that fifth year option. But not a surprise. A couple of tweets that will lead me into a conversation. From Alan on Twitter. Alan tweeted me yesterday,

so conflict and dysfunction as a Redskins narrative sells on podcasts, radio, and ESPN, when accurate or not. Snyder choosing a move to invigorate franchise business prospects, while also giving all coaching elements a slice of the pie they wanted seems smart. So a couple of things.

First of all, nobody is suggesting that Snyder's definitely wrong. I'm not a Haskins guy. There are other people that aren't Haskins guys. Doesn't mean he's going to be wrong. But it's not conflict and dysfunction that sells, just so you know. In fact, that's probably not great for us. It's not terrible for us for people that do what I do, podcasts, radio shows, etc.

It's not a terrible thing. I'd be disingenuous to suggest that it's a terrible thing. But it's not great. Them winning would be the best. But since they don't win, drama is definitely better than no drama. And that drama can be drama that's good drama, like the drafting of RG3, which was a real, for most of us was a real positive and exciting thing,

but a dramatic thing with the big trade to move up, I was in favor of that trade. I was wrong. You know, I was wrong about Josh Doxon. I was wrong about RG3. I don't know that I would have been wrong had the owner not gotten in the middle of the relationship between the head coach and the quarterback, but that's beside the point. That was exciting drama.

That's really good for us. And it could be drama over something perceived. by more than less to be something bad. Drama that's polarizing is really good. Something they do that's polarizing is definitely good for us. I'm not going to debate that. But winning would be the best. 2012 and to a lesser extent 2015 and 2016 were really good years for all of us that do this kind of thing.

Winning is best. Winning big. well that would be the ultimate. We just don't have any experience with that as far as the Redskins are concerned. This from Joe on Twitter, you guys have really done a number on Bruce Allen over the last few months.

Give the guy some credit when he deserves it. Have you seen or reported on the extend Bruce hashtag? Is that a true thing, Aaron? Now I'm looking. I haven't seen it at all. Let's see. Extend Bruce. If that's a true thing, my fault, I did not know that.

I have seen, let's see, since the new year, I see all of seven tweets with the extend Bruce hashtag. But there is an extend Bruce hashtag. Well, I mean, you can throw it on it. Yeah, seven tweets total in four months. Well, maybe it's going to grow to maybe 70s. I do see the first one is, damn, look at my president. Hashtag extend Bruce.

So I'm not going to share this with you here in the podcast, but maybe it's this guy, Joe, that started it, that tweeted me. Anyway, to Joe's tweet, you guys have really done a number on Bruce Allen over the last few months. Give the guy some credit when he deserves it. First of all, you can't, you know, you can credit people for drafts in the moment. But again, you really, I've gone over this so many times. You really don't know, nor do they. But I did think about that tweet with respect to, you know,

The people, and there are many of you out there that actually believe that the media has been the problem, which is utterly ridiculous. Nobody has impacted the Redskins in a negative way more than a majority of its longtime fans who in recent years have stopped going to games and even more telling have stopped watching games. And by the way, the reasons are totally justifiable. I'm not criticizing it. But the fans, the majority of longtime fans, have done much more damage to the franchise in recent years than anybody else. The reasons are justifiable, though. One playoff win in 20 years. One in 20 years. In the last 10 years, or 19 years, in the last 10 years, just two moments, two moments in the last 10 years of legitimate optimism and hope.

2012, but unfortunately the owner sided with a young, immature, self-absorbed RG3 over his head coach, which sabotaged, totally sabotaged in submarine the 2013 season, and stopped any momentum they had dead in its tracks. And then in 2015, after a division title, they low-balled the quarterback, never made him a legitimate offer to keep him, but even more damaging, didn't trade him for the first, grounder that San Francisco would have given up after the 2016 season.

You know, just sticking with the information we've observed on our own, okay? Just the information that's factual that we've observed on their own. Bruce Allen, Dan Snyder, all of them. They've earned the criticism that the fans have expressed and that the media has expressed in all forms of communication. They've earned the punches the fans. have thrown at them with significant attendance erosion and huge local television ratings declined. I've said this in the past, but nothing spoke more volumes about how far the franchise had fallen

than a half-empty stadium in the home opener against the Colts last year. And that was after a season opening win against the Cardinals with a new quarterback and Adrian Peterson rushing for nearly 100 yards. And then later on in the season, in a first-place show, showdown on Monday night football against a division rival, Philadelphia. And locally, the game does embarrassingly low television numbers. And outdrawn the next week, outdrawn the next week TV ratings-wise by Dallas here locally. Dallas beat the skins locally when the skins were playing the Giants the following week.

Stop with the media bashing. D.C. is not a tough sports media. market. Again, it's not the softest, but it's far from the harshest. Our fan community, which includes fans of the team, and by the way, people in the media like me who aren't journalists. And by the way, I want to make sure, you know, and I've said this before, I don't do something that comes with the expectation of objectivity. That's not what I am, just to be clear. We've had this conversation before. Some of you think people like Grant and Danny and the junkies or Zabe or Doc, or Me, we're not reporters.

We're not. Nobody that hosts a talk show is a reporter. Some of you get confused with that. All right, people who cover the team as reporters. Who's the beat reporter for the post right now? Is it still Kareem Koplin? Yeah. Okay.

So Kareem Kopland, objectivity is part of his job description. Not mine. We are basically op-ed blabbers. That's what we do. We just blab. I'm a fan. I don't know. I go through the same roller coaster of emotions that all of you do.

I talk about what I see and what I feel, both of those things. I'm sometimes wrong about what I see, but never wrong about describing how I feel. It's how I feel. And as far as the few of you who actually in your own head believe that the media is out there on its own when it comes to bashing Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen, and the organization, or somehow the media has influence the way the fans feel about the organization, that's really ignoring the truth of it. The team's record during the Dan Snyder era speaks for itself. We don't even have to add all of the dysfunction and the drama on top of it. Bruce Allen, who said record is the only thing

you should be judged on, has an abysmal record, an abysmal one. And this delusional discussion about how close they are when let's not forget, last year they lost six games. And they lost six games by double digits. Six, only three other NFL teams last year in the entire NFL had more than that. And of the six double digit losses, four were truly one-sided beat-down losses. They lost four games last year by 24 or more points. Four, that's hard to do in the NFL. Only the Cardinals. Only the Cardinals had the same number. They had one win last year over a playoff team. One. That win was the Dallas win in October.

They had one win over a team with a winning record last year. The Cowboy game also in October. Bruce Allen talked about seven and nine this year like they were close and it was all the injuries. Really? Their seven wins came against a group of teams that went 41, 70, and won. They weren't close. And the big trade that he unilaterally made, unilaterally made, that is, for Alex Smith, along with giving him a contract extension, January 2018.

The injury is unfortunate, obviously, but say whatever you want about Alex Smith's 6 and 4 record, and that's really what it was. They were going to lose to Houston had he not gotten hurt. He had not played very well. The fit with Jay Gruden had not become a comfortable one. through 10 games. Maybe it would have gotten better. It could have. We'll never know though. But the hashtag fire Bruce Allen thing wasn't started by any media member. It was started by what was left of a fan base that had had it. They were done. Nobody spoke more loudly about what the

Redskins have become more than its fan base and it didn't need any media influence to help it along. got to stop with that the media that the media is influenced or the media is the only group of people in this sports town in this town that seems to have a problem with Bruce and Dan. You're delusional. Now, Aaron, to a conversation I had with someone yesterday that I played golf with. And congratulations, by the way, to Nick and Devin. They beat me and my partner yesterday in a two-man competition. Two and one. We lost in 17.

Anyway, Nick said something to me yesterday that made sense, and perhaps some of you have already thought about it, and I really hadn't thought about it this way. So I want to give him credit for bringing it up to me. But again, maybe you guys have thought about it and talked about it already. But he said, and he's a Redskins fan, he said, you got to play Haskins from the start. You have to find out next year if he's the right guy. Because if he isn't next year's draft is loaded with quarterbacks that the skins might be in position to take. So let's sort through that for a minute here. First of all, it is true that you're not going to know anything of real substance about Haskins until he plays. You're not. You know,

if Keenham is playing and Jay's being asked about the development of Haskins and Jay says, oh man, Dwayne looks great working with the scout team and he's really good meetings and he's taking great notes and he's soaking up everything from Case and Colt. Colt, that means little. You know, you don't know until he's out there trying to duck live bullets if he's going to be something or not. But secondly, it's also true. It's also true that you may not learn much if you put him out there when he's not ready,

when he's not anywhere near ready. So there's that part of it too. So it sort of leads me to this conclusion. If it's close, like if Case beats him out but just barely, you got to play Haskins. I agree. If he's competitively right there with Case and Colt, but let's just say that Jay, because we know that Jay feels like he's got to win next year, would prefer to play the experienced guy over the inexperienced guy.

But he admits to himself, and perhaps we know this from being at training camp and reporting, etc., that the summer competition and preseason games, The summer competition between Case, Colton Haskins is legitimately close. You got to play him. Next year could be a surprise year because it's always possible in the NFL, but more likely than not, it's a non-playoff season. If the competition at the quarterback position is close, don't mess around with it. Get him in there.

The owner threw down the hammer in the draft room and said, this is my guy. We're taking him. You need to find out sooner rather than later if Dan Snyder was right about Dwayne Haskins because next year looks like it could be draft-wise a unique year

for quarterbacks. Now there's no chance, by the way, that Dan or Bruce will ever think of it in this way. They are convinced they're right and there's no way they think they'll be picking in the top 10 next year. Even if they didn't draft Haskins, remember Bruce believes that they

been close all along, and that is that really the key to a nine and seven playoff season, wild card playoff season next year, was health. They didn't even need to draft Haskins. It was all about health. But I guarantee you that Kyle Smith and the scouts would love to know much sooner rather than later if Haskins can do it. Because if he can do it, then they can think in another direction in 2020. If they find out he can't do it, and I know one says, season is tough to really make a definitive conclusion on it. But you're not going to have any way of determining anything if he doesn't play. But next year, look, the dolphins traded for Rosen. And the dolphins right now are being mocked to take Tua in every mock draft I think I've seen.

All right. So they would be right to think that way. They would be right to think, look, if this is close, we've got to play Dwayne Haskins. We got to find out. Because, the best interest in the organization in winning long term is to get him in there if he's ready or if he's close enough to ready and for us to find out if we made the right call or if Dan made the right call because if he made the right call great well you know even if we go five and 11 with a rookie quarterback but we know we got the right guy and we can take off from there and we don't have to think about quarterback but next year's unique it's a unique year you know it's not one of those years where people think there's, you know, that the draft is lacking in

quarterbacks. It's Tua. It's Fromm. It's Herbert. All three being projected to be top five, top ten picks. Here's the one question with that. Just based on that logic, you know, we know that Dan, or we think that Dan was the one who put his fist down and demanded it, what makes you think he'd give up after a year? What makes you think he'd allow another quarterback to come in? It's totally fair. It's totally fair. It's totally fair. But, you know, there are, look, the Cardinals traded up and drafted Josh Rosen number 10 last year. And by all accounts, everybody loved him there. You know, a lot of favorable response to Rosen. But Kyler Murray was a transcendent player. Maybe by the time we get to next year's draft,

Tua or Herbert or Fromm is thought to be something like that, thought to be a can't miss. I don't even know if Kyler Murray's thought to be can't miss. But the point being, you know, you're going to have a lot more information on Haskins if he plays than if he doesn't play. But again, I throw out the caveat that if he's not ready, then it's unfair to him too. So we'll see. I mean, it's going to be really an interesting summer because, again, and I've said this since last Thursday, it's not like he's coming in and competing against Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahomes. he's competing against Case Keenham and Colt McCoy.

It shouldn't be a shock if he ends up being the better option. But I'm suggesting now if it's close, even if he's slightly behind Case and loses the competition battle by a smidge, you got to play him because you've got to find out. I wanted to get to the Diana Rusini interview yesterday. If you missed Diana yesterday from ESPN, she was on the podcast. It starts at the 2143 mark yesterday. She was great. I enjoyed it.

And some of you asked me how much I believed in her reporting last week and the things she said to me yesterday. And the easy answer, the simple answer is all of it. I believe all of it. You know, there are a couple of things, and I'll go through them in detail here, that I think maybe I believe most of it, but it's immaterial to the overall point or the overall report.

everything that she said yesterday and everything she's tweeted out and everything she reported on ESPN last week leading up to the draft during the draft and after the draft, I believe all of it pretty much. Diana reported that Dan Snyder wanted Haskins. Dan Snyder wanted Haskins and the football people, the coaching staff and scouts, didn't want Haskins. I totally believe that. I've mentioned before over the last week that some of the people that I rely on that I've trusted in the past, that this was their message. as well. Doesn't mean, by the way, the football people are right, and Dan is wrong. You know, you can form your own opinion on that. We won't know for sure for a few years. It could prove to be Dan's finest moment as the team's owner. It could. But I do believe that the football people were not into Haskins at 15, but Dan was. Diane also said the

frustration from the football people had a lot to do with the fact that the they had worked all year putting together this board. And what was the point of it if it wasn't going to be followed? And because of that, the dynamic in the building right now isn't that great, in part because the frustration from the football people led to a lot of leaks last week, a lot of them to Diana and others. All right, and Dan wasn't happy at all. I believe that to be true too. She also said that while it's not, and I think her quote was it's not kumbaya in the building right now, which I agree with, it's also Jay's personality to move on. He makes the best of what he has and moves on. And I agree with that too. It's what I've said always about Jay. You know, he's honest

to his own detriment at times, but he's also, when all is said and done, he's go along to get along. So he's going to make the best out of this. To the discuss, about how pissed Dan was that there were leaks last week. Diana threw something into that part of the conversation that I actually want you to listen to. She's not sure if changes won't be made before the season. Listen to this portion of our discussion yesterday. Kevin, I think this is layered. I think there's more going on in the building than we know about.

I don't think everything is kumbaya. And I'm not sure if changes will be made before the season starts, but I do know the one thing that this staff that is currently there, the pressure is high and they need to win and they know it. So it's Diana's line where she says, I'm not sure if changes will be made before the season begins. Just throwing that into the conversation, it's pretty interesting because it speaks to,

how difficult maybe it was last week, how tense it was last week, how emotional it was last week, for the football people who were basically told, this is what we're doing, even though the board didn't say it, and then for the owner to see a lot of that stuff leaked. Personally, I believe that things,

especially between Jay and perhaps Bruce and Dan, while they aren't great right now, I don't think it's going to lead to any change before the season begins. I would be very surprised by that. But I have been told that it's not the same relationship with Jay and Bruce that it used to be. Now, again, I think Jay adjusts. I think his personality is a personality where he wasn't happy in the moment, but he moves on and he'll make the best of it.

He'll do, remember what Jim Zorn was told to do, comply? I think Jay's going to comply. But that's much more serious sounding, and it was for Zorn, for sure. It was a legal description of what he was doing. I don't think it's to that point, and I think Jay will move on and try to make it work. But I do think Diana's line, I'm not sure if changes will be made before the season begins, speaks to how much of a divide there was last week. She also said yesterday that the football people like Jones more than Haskins. I believe that some of the football people like Jones over Haskins,

but I'm not sure everybody was in agreement on that. So when I said at the beginning, I believe almost everything that Diana said, this is the one area in which I would say, I don't know that every scout and every football coach was in on Jones over Haskins, but I think some of them were. What I do believe is that, in retrospect.

And perhaps even before it happened, and I've said this for the last week, I believe that some of the football people would have preferred Rosen for a second and even something better than Miami gave up, which was a fifth, a second and a third or a second and a fourth. I think some of the football people would have preferred Rosen for a second and a fourth, call it, rather than taking any quarterback in this draft, not named Murray. on the Jones thing, the Daniel Jones thing, just so we're all clear on what Diana said to us,

she said the football people had Jones higher rated than Haskins, but she was also very clear that if both had been on the board at 15, while the football people would have suggested if they were told they have to take a quarterback, would have said Jones, the Redskins were taking Haskins because the owner said they were taking Haskins. So you've seen some reporting that says, You know, in response to Gettleman's, you know, there were two other teams that had Jones, you know, would have taken Jones before 17 and one of them was potentially the Redskins.

It's, I believe it's true that some of the football people would have taken Jones over Haskins if they were told they had to take a quarterback. They didn't want to take a quarterback at 15. But it wouldn't have happened. So when you see reporting that says the Redskins were taking Haskins all along, that's true too, because Dan was taking Dwayne Haskins. It didn't matter what the football people said. Dan and Bruce were in on Haskins. Again, I don't think all of the football people were Jones over Haskins, but I think some of them were. But again, I don't think any of them wanted a quarterback.

Netting it out, really, I think that the football people wanted to stick to a board that they had built over a long period of time with a lot of hard work, and that board didn't have any quarterback other than Murray rated anywhere near 15. That's really more than anything else what I think happened last week. I don't think anyone thinks Haskins isn't an intriguing talent. I don't think anybody that was in favor of Jones or Rosen over Haskins thinks that Haskins doesn't have some talent. I think they do. But I think Kyle Smith, the scouts, the coaches, whatever influence they had was an influence to say, let's stick to the board.

But obviously it was trumped by what Dan Snyder wanted. By the way, Diana also told us yesterday that Bruce didn't like Kyler Murray. Remember she said that? Now, I've not heard anything about that. I don't know anything about that, but that's interesting too. What if he had slipped? Remember some of the stuff about if the Cardinals don't take him? It's a red flag.

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I don't know if you saw this, Aaron, but Todd McShay this morning, and I just saw this as we were going through the opening segment. Todd McShay just put his 2020 NFL mock draft out. Of course he did. And these things are interesting because not for the players necessarily, but I always like to see, and we've talked about this the last couple days,

where people project teams to finish. The Redskins are number four on his board, picking fourth next year. Bleacher report had him picking first and had him taking Chase Young, the pass rusher from Ohio State. McShay has him picking fourth and taking Chase Young from Ohio State.

Makes sense. He also has Tua going number one overall to Miami. Jerry Judy, the wide receiver, could be one of those incredibly high-rated wide receivers that we see every once in a while going number two to Arizona. Grant Delpit, the safety from LSU that Ben was talking about yesterday, Ben Standing going three to Denver, and then Chase Young to the Redskins. And then the other two quarterbacks, Justin Herbert, five to the Raiders.

And then Jake Fromm, he has, whoa, he's got Jake Fromm. Where does he have Jake From? Maybe he doesn't have Jake From because sometimes these people won't put underclassmen in there if there's not well, you know, definitely. Well, Tua will be an underclassman. Yeah, that's true. Did I just miss Jake Fromm here?

No, he doesn't have Jake Fromm. He doesn't have Jake Fromm in the first round. Oh. Is that possible? Unless there's something I'm missing. I mean, Jake Fromm should go ahead of Herbert. I think so, too. I like Jake Fromm.

Hold on. Maybe I just went through this too quickly. This is great podcasting right now. We could just edit. at this, but why? Yeah, no, he's not. He's not on there. Yeah, okay, whatever. All right, guess who spoke yesterday?

Somebody we rarely hear speak. Kyle Smith spoke yesterday on Redskins Nation with Larry Michael, the director of scouting for the Redskins, the guy whose responsibility it was to put this draft board together for the Redskins, sat down with Larry. Kyle doesn't do a lot of media. I don't know if it's because they don't let him do a lot of media. I'm not necessarily sure.

I've asked for him in the past. Haven't gotten him, but I don't think many people have. But he did sit down with Larry yesterday. And what I thought we'd do here is there's nothing significantly profound about anything that came out of the interview. But it was nice to hear Kyle speak and talk about the players that they selected. So I thought over the next few days, you know, we'll just trickle some of it out. Many of you perhaps have already heard some of it.

But I did want to start with, you know, Larry's, opening and the discussion about Dwayne Haskins. Kyle Smith is here. We're going to talk about this year's Redskins draft, which has been lauded around all the so-called experts, Kyle, like I told you yesterday, maybe the first time I've been associated with any type of straight A report card. Yeah, well, no, we, you know, I'm glad everybody's excited because we're excited about it, too. We feel good. Let's go through the rounds. First of all, day one, you obviously got Haskins and sweat,

and were you sweating as Haskins was on that board? Yeah, no. No, it was, it was. definitely an exciting time. We got, you know, obviously a quarterback was one of the priorities that we had with, you know, the guys that we have to throw Haskins into the mix. He's an extremely, extremely talented quarterback with all of the skill set and he can be as good as he wants to be. And we're excited about the opportunity for him to come in and learn behind some veteran leadership, learn from Jay Gruden, Kevin O'Connell, Matt Kavanaugh, Tim Rete, all these guys with tremendous knowledge of the position along with Colt and Case and obviously Alex.

So when you look at him, when you look at Haskins, he played one year as a starter, but he did have some grooming there. What's he got to work on the most? Well, I think any time he's a young kid. I mean, he's 21 years old. He's a one-year starter. The experience that's obviously going to play a factor into how you grow as a quarterback. But the game's different.

The college game is different than the NFL game. What we have to do is break down, kind of get inside of his mind, and let him understand West Michigan. Coast offense, understanding defenses, coverages, all those things that are different from the college game. And he's going to have a chance to do that. And he will compete, according to the coach, which means competition is good, isn't it? It is. Yeah, no, we want, I think every guy that we drafted this year, that's the goal. We want these guys that come in and play right away. But we've got, obviously, a pretty good roster to begin with, so they're all going to come in and compete.

So there's a little bit of Kyle Smith. Some of you haven't really heard him speak a lot over the years. He's bright. Everybody that knows him well thinks that he is an eventual general manager in this league at some point. His father was, A.J. Smith, you know, nothing he said, nor would I have expected anything that he would have said, would have changed my mind about what we talked about earlier. I don't think Haskins was the number one quarterback on their board. I don't think he was a guy in their top 15. I think Kyle is among the guys that probably were a little bit. frustrated that they didn't follow the board. You heard him say, you know, we got a pretty good team

anyway, you know, coming in. And I think that's the way a lot of the people out there feel. I think, you know, the injury thing really is among the guys in Ashburn, not just Dan and Bruce, but, you know, a lot of the coaches, if we had been healthy, we would have been a playoff team last year. And it would have been close. You know, we've gone through this a million times. It would have been close to to a nine and seven and a potential wild card birth. But anyway, he had some thoughts on Montes Sweat and all of the other picks, including Bryce Love, and we'll play some of those for you tomorrow and on Monday as well. But it was good to hear him and get his thoughts.

You know, the Cowboys put Will McClay out there, and I think others earlier this week, talking about every draft choice and how it came about in great detail. And this seems to be a trend. I don't think it's a trend with the Patriots. I don't think the Patriots are sitting there. and trying to at least give the perception of transparency, but good for Kyle Smith to go on and, you know,

you get to hear from him. You know, I don't know how much. You can't press them on that show, obviously. That's not what's going to happen on Redskins Nation. But in that particular situation, to be honest with you, like if he were to come on the show and I've asked the PR people about him coming on the show, even if you push about what the board was and how much Dan,

he's not going to give you a real answer, nor should he, in that particular situation. All right, let's bring in Scott Van Pelt for his Thursday visit. We missed you last week because it was a heavy draft day, and I apologize because I don't know that I even called you to say that we didn't need you on Thursday. No, he just ignored me. That's what I think I did. I didn't mean to.

It was the NFL draft, and I guess I thought you would have just assumed that perhaps we were going to be heavy on Redskins' draft day stuff. But that's my fault, and I thought about it actually, just as we called you a moment ago, that we didn't have you on last Thursday. Here's the thing. I didn't care. I know. I know you didn't.

But you noticed. You noticed that I didn't call you. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm apologizing for that. So I have to, I have to heckle you a little bit, so I did. You really were annoying the other night because I've asked you for, I don't know, three years, maybe two years. I've been asking you to give Game of Thrones a chance. You won't do it.

And then for some unknown reason, you decided to watch on Sunday night. And while you were watching, you decided to bother me, to ask me questions. Who's this person? Who's that person? What's she doing? By the way, your tweet was the best. It was hysterical. This was what Scott tweeted as he was watching his first ever episode of Game of Thrones.

Watching a recording of Game of Thrones with zero context or understanding is actually awesome. No attachment to anyone. There's lots of zombies, relentless. This girl in the maze is spunky as hell, badass. Blue Dragon Fire guy seems like a tough out. Zombies in the house now. tense. You're such, you're really, I mean, that was major league trolling, and the responses were

outstanding to it, which was what you got. I mean, you got over 14, you got 15,000 likes to that particular tweet. Can I take that to the grocery store to buy goods and services? No, you can't. The key word in that is recording. I was texting you after the show was over because I knew that I wanted to give you time to process that you sent me a text like a junior high school child. I can't breathe because you were so you're so impacted. That was that was sarcasm. That was sarcasm for you by the way. Okay, fine. But I was

texting you after the fact. So don't act like it was like during like a Maryland game with two minutes left. And I'm like, they need to run less something for Wiggin. I didn't do that. Well, the truth is when you did start texting me because I started it late. I had recorded it and I started a little bit late. I was still in the process of finishing it up. But whatever, what made you sit down to watch Sunday night? I had read so much about 11 weeks of shooting and the expense of the episode. And I figured, all right, well, this is just like a movie. So I'll watch, I'll watch this sort of cinematic event. I don't care that I don't know. And I don't plan to watch further. I just thought, thought, all right, well, here's this battle, the long night, winter fell, whatever the

hell it is, and the beginning of it starts, it's very tense, and I'm like, all right, well, this is, this is, I can't see it very much, I guess it is at night, they don't have lights on the, in the winter fell landscape, but whatever, and so I watched it, and, you know, whatever, what do you, this is the part that I don't get. The people that were invested and who have gone along for the ride are like lecturing me about how dare you do this who the hell are you

to tell me what I get to do when I'm sitting on my couch at my house I watched it so who cares well I don't have a problem with you watching it with no context I mean yeah they shouldn't be I don't know why anybody would be upset about that I just had a problem with you texting yeah with you texting me

about who's this person and who's that person. Because that's childlike, which you are sometimes. Well, I did it to bother you. Just because you've given me such a hard time about watching. So I just figured I'd ask a name questions throughout the episode. And then some of it I actually was curious, just so I can have little context.

But anyway, good times. We haven't talked since the Caps got eliminated from the playoffs. You're a huge fan. What did you think? I hated it. I hated it more than anything because they were better for the first period and a half, and then it's weird. They just, they weren't better.

They didn't deserve to win. Like the hurricanes just, it just felt inevitable. And then it, when it ends, like, there's just nothing that matches the tension of that, waiting with dread for just, oh, God, please, anytime the puck's in the zone. And I'll say this. I think I told you this offer. I want to say it here on the record that next to Maryland sports, nothing is do I emotionally invest in more?

Granted, it's only in the playoffs. I watch during the regular season from far. I keep tabs on things. Everything's good. They're in the playoffs, yada yada. I don't watch game in and game out the way I watch the Stanley Cup playoffs. I love the Stanley Cup playoffs. And them losing was like gutting.

Can I say that? No, but I was pissed. And I was so mad that they didn't have any more games. And when that puck goes in and Williams, the former cap, just puts it on net, and then the kid that knocked the goal out on the other end, like Dave to Dave from the hurricanes has the goal. And like the hands go up and you're like,

oh, crap, it's that it's it. It's just over. And you felt like you're going to throw up for an hour and a half and then the season's over. I really, really love Stanley Cup play out hockey. And that's sort of a revelation for me. the past, I don't know, five years. Like, I really love it.

But that's not... But that's not what you just said. You just said that the caps are your number two behind Maryland sports. They are. Emotionally, without question. I don't invest a thing at the Wizard. I don't invest a thing in the Redskins. And the Orioles won 47 games last year.

What if the Orioles were, you know, in the playoffs last year and pushing, you know, a World Series possibility? would they, I've known you for 30 plus years. The Orioles would be your number two behind Maryland in that situation. The tension of playoff baseball feels very similar to me to the tension of playoff hockey. You're on edge. You're on edge in a way that's different. I don't know.

This is surprising to me because I didn't, I didn't, like, it wasn't like a stated goal. I didn't decide, you know, I'm just going to love the caps. But here's the difference. They're good every year. They're in the playoffs every year. They have had these disappointments and these heartbreaks. And by the way, this is another first round series, two-o lead and a two-goal lead in game seven at home twice.

If they don't have that Stanley Cup, people are horrified. Oh, yeah. It's like people kind of shrugging and going, well, you know, they won the Stanley Cup last year, so I guess we're all right. No, no, no, we're not all right. This sucks. I was crushed, but I really, really love watching them play playoff hockey.

I think it's just incredibly exciting. The Stanley Cup playoffs have been so far superior to the NBA playoffs. It's funny. The Stanley Cup playoffs, I agree with you. I love hockey, playoff hockey. Love it. And I've watched even since the Caps have been eliminated, I've watched a lot of the Carolina Islander series. I readily admit that. I watched last night for a while

as Carolina pulled away late, and they've got a 3-0 series lead, which for Caps fans, you know, I'm sure they're thinking, oh, my God, we would have beaten the Islanders, and we would have been in the Eastern conference finals. But, you know, who the hell knows with hockey? It's such... You don't. It's such a guess work thing. But, yeah, I know, because you said this to me off air, that you were surprised that people didn't feel the sting of it as much because of the Stanley Cup last year. I think it's, I think there was, there's some grace here. There's a huge grace period after last year. And I suppose to a degree,

I understand it. I'm just saying that that Stanley Cup sweatshirt, t-shirt, golf shirt that you bought is a hell of a billetproof vest a year later where you can just shrug off, again, a 2-0 series lead against a team you're supposed to be better than. And a game seven at home with a two-goal lead twice. I mean, and I don't know, I went back and I had a DVR of it. I went back and, like, there were like four different times they should have scored. Ovechkin had one.

There was a, they had like, there was a penalty, and who's the guy? Hagelin could have scored. But, you know, none of this matters. No, Haglin hit the post, yeah. Brana, Brana hit the post in overtime. And that too. But, I mean, you know what? That would have felt like they stole it.

Carolina felt like they deserved to win, and they did. And now they're, you know, steamrolling towards Stanley Cup final, perhaps, or Eastern Conference Final anyway. But I really, I'm amazed at how much I enjoy it. And, you know, for a few days, I was like, I'm not watching hockey, but then I realized, well, it's kind of my job. I have to talk about it with Barry, so it would be stupid to not watch the games. And the crowd in Carolina is incredible.

I mean, like, it's a decade almost removed from the playoffs. So they're having fun, which that's what you're supposed to do. It's been fun to watch. To the NBA playoffs, other than the lack of anything compelling on the floor in terms of a great series or anticipation for one, I mean, I think Houston, Golden State, there's been some anticipation for that. but what haven't you liked beyond the actual games? No, I mean, the game is the main problem.

You didn't know where I was trying to lead you into a conversation we've already had, I thought, and that is all of the whining and the complaining about the officiating. Well, right, that's where I was going to go. Okay. The topic of officiating and the sense of outrage that these players have when they don't get calls, It's just exhausting. And it's really interesting. I'm not going to pretend like I know Chris Paul.

I do not. I have spent time on a couple of occasions at events away from sports with him, and he couldn't be more chiming, but more charming and bright and interesting and interested and a guy that you enjoy talking to. And then he gets on the court and he turns into an absolute monster. He's just insufferable in the court in a way that I think hurts them. And I did a thing on SportsCenter about Hardin and about the drawing fouls on threes. And I mean, I think he's the most difficult person in the sport to defend and to officiate

because he's so clever at creating the contact. And I just, I don't know that that's, if that's sort of your stated goal is to kind of trick people into getting a three-point, getting three free throws because you're such a good free-throw shooter. I don't know, that just feels like not the goal that you'd want if you're the league. And everyone's crying and complaining about everything. And then it becomes like a three-day topic of conversation in between the games. So I don't know, I guess absent the drama on the floor, we manufacture that. But it's just, I don't know what the fix is.

Well, how about the revelation or the story from the athletic, I think it was, about how Houston had this incredible memo put together for the league about how they were completely robbed out of their series last year with Golden State, and there were 81 missed calls or non-calls that would have resulted in 18.6 more points in game 7. I don't think anything screams sour grapes more than something like that. To be emotional in the moment or in the days afterwards, and to complain and to whine about officiating, but to actually sit down and put together a lengthy report

of how you were screwed out of 18.6 points seems to me to really sort of defeat the purpose. Kevin, the audacity, the audacity to suggest you were wronged by the officials for 18.6 points in a game where you went 0 for 27 from a 3, to start the game. Did that play any role in your demise, do you think? Oh, for 27.

Was that in the memo? And then here's the thing, Kevin. This is one of my most pointed, most specific pet peeves that we tend to do in sports. Maybe even me and you, but fans for sure. If this, then that. Well, okay, if this foul call, we would have gotten what? Of course.

Three free throws. Then that means, that every single thing that happens after you should have gotten that fall call is different. The action stopped. We now went to the free throw line. We inbound. Maybe we run different sets. Maybe Clay Thompson gets hot because we run something.

You can't deal in absolute saying that every single thing would have happened as it did other than we would have got the stuff that would have benefited us. Like, imagine that. It's like creating an alternate universe. And Kevin, the wording wasn't just that you cost us that game. It's like you very likely, no, not at you very likely. It was you cost us the NBA title. I know. I mean, good God, that's so infuriating.

And my understanding is that the league was livid, as you'd guess they'd be. Like, you want to say, shut the bleep up with this crap. I mean, don't miss 27 straight threes. And don't presume that everything happens as it did in your memo based on, if we could to call a foul. I mean, are fouls miss? Sure. The two-minute report says as much every single game. But going back and trying to, try to regrade

history based on that is, I mean, look, I'll say this. One more thing. I know I'm rancic. No, no, no. I love it. The New Orleans Saints being furious about the outcome of the NFC championship game to me is

justified because you're talking about a play that absolutely was interference. And if it wasn't interference. It was a personal foul. And it was at the end of the game. Because the player got fine for the hit. And it would have resulted in an ability for the Saints to take

knees and kick an extra point-length field goal. And only that is what changed the outcome of the game and thus the participant in the Super Bowl. The Saints to me have a beef. They're regrading the last one play which would have resulted

in an extra point-length field goal. So I'll buy that. Houston's going back and replaying 48 minutes and regrading the tape. That's what bothers me. I had forgotten that they had started 0 for 27 from the floor, and I just pulled up the box score, and it reminded me, too, that my favorite player, Trevor Arisa, went 0 for 12 in that game 7 against Golden State last year,

and the Rockets finished 7 of 44 from behind the arc in that game. Yeah, all of that stuff. And I think what we've seen here for too long is that the referees allow a level of badgering of them and confrontation with them. I don't know, maybe it's generational. It's off-putting to me to watch it so consistently every night. And, you know, for most people that don't even pay attention until the postseason, then it becomes an outrage because you've got more people that are actually watching games. but it's that way every night in the NBA.

I don't know why they don't set the tone that there isn't some ability for the referees to keep these guys off them. People have compared it to the way it used to be, but they'll say the way it used to be is that there was a better relationship between referees and Larry Bird, referees and Kevin McHale, and they would be able to talk it out even though they were upset in the moment. I don't remember ever the jumping on the officials, the top. complaining of missed calls and bad calls like we have now? I don't remember, you know, the magic bird, Dr. Jay. I don't remember the 80s or the 90s specifically being better as it relates to the officials. But certainly the modern star in the NBA has been empowered to such a degree where there's just this,

we're entitled to everything we want. If we don't get what we want, then bleep you. I guess. I mean, it seems like that. It seems like that to a degree. It's an issue. I mean,

but the league, the league is the most fueled by the stars. The drama of the stars and then the drama of the stars and social media as a tool to be this

cycle where they're the fuel for it. They'll air their squabbles there, which lead them more conversation on your show, my show, all the other supporting shows, which fill the gaps in between the actual games. I mean, it's a, it's, it's, Wodge told me, Adrian Wurgenowski told me a GM that, maybe I've just told you this on the air here, but he said the faucet of crazy is wide open in our league. Like just, it's never, it's never off.

There's just always something. And then the offseason becomes even more insane with the speculation who will go where and the guys taking shots at each other. I mean, it's, it is fascinating. But this type of theater involving the officials, to me, is just really, really tires her. All right, just one last thing on the NBA. Who do you like? Like, we're down to, you know, four in each conference.

Who do you like? I mean, you've got one-two-0 series, right? That's it. Everything else is one-one. Yeah, I like, I really like the Bucks all year. And then they played that first game against Boston and looked scared. And Janus looked tight. Tight.

Middleton for them. Chris Middleton is a star and does not, he gets the least discussion for any excellent player in the NBA. I'll fight you on that. Well, he was an all-star this year and he lit it up during the All-Star game, if you recall, in the first time. But you're right, but you're right. Most people don't know Chris Middleton. You know why? He's been good for a long time.

He doesn't tweet. So no one talks about him. But the other night, he was seven of his first nine from three when Janus was struggling a little bit. struggling a little bit. He looked nervous. He looked... Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, and I talked about it yesterday.

You know that I liked Boston before this series, and I said it on the podcast. I thought Milwaukee would not be in the NBA finals this year, whether it was Boston or Toronto. I thought one of those two teams would beat him. But I didn't think it would be because Tena Cumpo would actually get nervous and tight. He was clearly that in game one, and in the first half the other night, he looked to be a mental mess. And then Middleton hit some shots, loosened it up, and then all of a sudden he felt, I think, a little bit of relief that they had a lead. Well, Legler and I did that on the show the other night. The point being that the guys that were the role players really allowed Janus to take a deep breath and relax.

It wasn't all in his shoulders. Now, ultimately, Yonis ends up with 29, which I believe was more than Middleton, but it was when Middleton got the buckets that allowed kind of Yonis to take a deep breath. They have steamrolled people this year. Best record, most blowouts. And Boston's been, as we know, searching all year. I really like Milwaukee beforehand. And the way they played the first game and a half had be shook. But I still like them.

I still like the Bucks. I think it'll be the Bucks and the Warriors in the end. It's funny. This Portland, Denver series is sort of like the other one, right? It's like, which is odd to me because Denver's been a wonderful story all year. They're fun to watch. Yokic is amazing. You look at him, you go, how's this dude do this?

And then, you know, Dame Lillard is, I think, a breathtaking star, but he wasn't even great last night, and they won, and still back home court. So I don't know. I like the bucks and the Warriors, but I mean, that's, hey, the two one-seeds. But that's kind of the NBA, whereas in the NHL, the one-seeds are all knocked out the first round. Yeah, I don't see anybody beating Golden State in the best of seven. I think they're going to win the title again. whether it's against Milwaukee, Toronto, or Boston, or Philadelphia, for that matter.

All right, one last thing before I let you run. Actually, two things. Number one, why isn't Tiger playing Quail Hollow? I thought this was a good course for him. Yeah, he's done well there. I have no idea. I saw that video where he was eating cake and he was walking around like he had just done legs or like his back had teased up. Like, I don't know.

Like, I don't know. Is he all right? I have no idea. I mean, he's kind of, I mean, he's been off the grid since Augusta, which I get. I mean, I think. Well, he's visiting the White House either today or tomorrow. I read that last night. There you go, his golfing buddy.

So I don't know why he's not playing. I think I would guess that he understands his body and the schedule being, leading up to a major, in a couple weeks in Bethpage, and the need to be right for that. because now with April, May, June, July, going major, major, major, major, you know, you don't have that gap in the middle to free things up. I would guess he'd want to play Memorial as well where, you know, he's been as good as any place during his career, Jack's tournament, in between the PGA and the U.S. Open, but I don't know.

By the way, were you being sarcastic? I know that they played golf together before, but are they buddies? I have no idea. Okay. I said golfing buddy because they play golfing. golf. I'd say that about anybody. Like Tony and Mike Wilbonne are President Obama's golfing. Tony, I think Tony's played with Obama more than, I don't know if I'm supposed to disclose

this and maybe, but I don't think it's a problem now. But I think Tony may be in terms of a non-government type of a citizen, I don't think anybody's played more golf with Obama than Tony. Which is an amazing thing. They don't write a book about it. They should. But you know what? You know what?

I would guess that those moments and those memories aren't for sale. I would think they belong to them, which is a cool thing. All right. The other thing that I was going to just mention to you is if you had any big thoughts about the NFL draft, the Redskins, Haskins, and also you called me yesterday about Thaisman's Jersey. What did you do on that? Did you end up doing something on that on the show?

I did. And it was very helpful because my reaction to Joe's reaction, the quote, was, I want to sit down and talk on him. I haven't decided yet. And my reaction was, you don't get to decide who wears your number. It's not retired. And then as you explained, it was a protected number. And in a way, he kind of does need to sign off, which puts the player in a terrible spot. Because what if he decided, for whatever reason, I'm not speaking specific to Haskins, but what if it were a player that he didn't want to wear his jersey? Right. Then Disman looks like a total clown. So it puts him in an impossible

spot. Anyway, so you were helpful to me in helping me understand that actually Haskins sort of did the right thing, reached out to say, hey, listen, I'd love to do this. They sat down and talked. Joe gave it his blessing and off would go. You know, first number seven and Burgundy and gold in 30-some-eyed years. But as far as the draft, because they continue to draft guys from Bama and it was big-time program guys and skill position guys, it was a bunch of people that I'd seen a lot. I liked Paris Campbell the best of the Ohio Statewide receivers, but the guy they got Warren,

like he's a guy that's a difference maker. The receiver they got out of NC State, I don't know if he had a bad combine or what, but he was supposed to be like a second round guy. You get love and you get geist from last year whose minus won't be a rookie because he got hurt, and you add a bunch of youth to that backfield. Haskins obviously is the big wild card.

I know you and Coley did a bunch of things about how he can throw it, but there's, you know, some bust potential coolly believes there. But I know the grades, which I laugh at, because who the hell knows if they're good or not, but the draft was well received by people that are, you know, football, in the no football people. So I think they've got some talent on defense. They need to upgrade the offense. They took a bunch of guys that could, in theory, if, you know, if Love and Geis are healthy, you add them to the backfield, it would seem like quite an upgrade.

So, I mean, it was a very positive draft, I think, beyond the, fact that everyone got freaked out that, you know, Snyder came in and steamrolled everyone in the first pick because he wanted to take another quarterback. And the last time that happened, we all know what happened. Yeah. And we think he did do that. I think Diana and everybody else's reporting on that was accurate. All right, thanks.

I'll talk to you later. And if you want to join me for Sunday night, you can do so. But I'd prefer if the conversation about the show took place after the show was over. That's all. Well, it did. I know, but I was still watching it. I was still watching it on recording. Please stop. I was doing it to annoy you and it worked. So it's one of the few times in our friendship that I feel like I've done that. You once pretended to play out an entire Wizards game over a gambling result and you made up the whole thing. Hold on for a second. No one's going to understand that. But you and I had bet it was Wizards versus somebody. I can't even remember. It was the Hawks. Okay, so this is, this is. is how the hawks. And we both had, I don't know who we had. We either had the wizards or the hawks, either getting or giving. I don't even remember what it was, but you were nowhere near a TV, and it was before the days you could get all the information on your phone, and you were asking me to give you play-by-play of the game. And we were losing the game big. I mean, we were getting crushed, but I decided to fabricate a different ending for you. I want people who are listening right now to understand what he just said. We had bet on a game. We were losing that game.

I had no access to the information. And so Kevin Sheehan did play-by-play for a game where he faked a game and told us we won. And it went on for half an hour at least. Yeah. And you were lying about the result. And we actually got crushed and we lost. And you're going to give me crap about 10. texting to you about a show that was over, you made up a fake result with fake play-by-play.

I did, but if I recall, it's because you had done something very similar, like, a few weeks preceding that. Like, I had called you, and this was, again, in the days where you couldn't get information over your phone, and, you know, we weren't calling George Michael's Sportsline, you know, the 202-844-25-25 number. Was that it? I think it was. where you got the scores where George updated you on scores. I thought it was. I think that's what it was. I think that's what it was. And I think there was another situation, and you basically just told me outright that we had lost. And I know it's different because it ended up being happiness because we had actually won the game.

But still, you had me, you know, you had me disappointed until I got home and found out that we had actually won. But if I, okay. I don't, you know what, this is boring for. If I made up a lie that benefited you, then it benefited you. And I didn't go through 30 minutes of making up fake play by, oh, Rulin. Rulins got in the, oh, bucket. Hey, here they come. Here they come the bullets, you idiot. All right, whatever. No one cares about this. But they should care about it just to understand what kind of animal they're dealing with every day. Someone that would make up a fake score and lie to it was friends. It was fun. I remember, you know, this was a long time ago. I want to want to say that Christian Leitner was playing for the Hawks. I don't know, but I told you in the middle, like, you're making this up and you thought you had me, but really you didn't. I just kind of let you go.

Okay, so then it wasn't a big deal. All right, see you. I'm gone. I'm done with you. Scott Van Pelt everybody every Thursday here on the podcast. Quick word about scent bird here for a minute. It's time for somebody to come up to you and say, man, you smell amazing. What cologne are you wearing?

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Sign on. Smell Amazing. All right. It was good to catch up with Van Pelt. That's always fun. He's on with us every Thursday. A friend of mine, Howard Craw, who we've been friends for many, many years. In fact, if you want to know the truth, it's 25 years now. No way. Really? We go back that far? The company that I was involved in that merged with a company that Howard was an investor in happened 25 years ago.

Start calling me Howie, please. Is that what you want me to call you now? It's no longer Howard. Wall Street days are over. I'm Howie. All right. You're Howie now. Howard, Howie. Howie worked on Wall Street for many years. And he came in today because he was in town and he's doing a podcast, which we're going to have a chance to talk about down the road a little bit. But he was mentioning to me that a guy that was a friend of his and a guy I used to play basketball with all the time at Sport and Health at Bethesda Sport and Health, this guy, Seth Goldman, who started Honest Tea. many of you know that product and he did very well with that, that you were just mentioning that today his latest venture went public.

It's about to open, Kevin, and hasn't opened yet. The name of the company is Beyond Meat. Let me just take you back how it happened. Seth had this incredible vision with honesty. He was one of the first people to bring fair trade, social responsibility, organic, and he eventually sold that company to Coca-Cola. In 2012, Ethan Brown, I believe one of the foremost experts on climate change, came and found, Seth, because the number one problem with climate change is meat, M-E-A-T, cows, agriculture, gases. So he had this vision of creating a product out of pea protein to create meat without the animals, the slaughterhouses.

So does it taste good? It's phenomenal. Seriously, I am telling you, you could get this at Carl Jr.'s, BurgerFi. They're selling it everywhere, Kevin. Get out from behind your desk. We never do this, but this is actually stuff that really interests me, and I follow much outside of the sports show that I do. And you've been a good friend for a long time, and this Beyond Meat is going public today, and it looks like it's going to open in a very healthy way. on, by the way, what appears to be a bad market day, but that's beside the point. But I'm fascinated by this particular entrepreneur, Seth, who's been a phenomenal entrepreneur forever, but that this particular product is being backed by the group of people that you just told me before we went on is behind this. Tell everybody beyond me who the investors are in this thing.

Back in the earliest days, Kleiner Perkins, which you know from Silicon Valley, their Facebook, they're everything, right? So then the ex-CEO of McDonald's, at one point Tyson's invested, but they've been bought out of it. Tyson Foods. Tyson Foods. But here it is. Leonardo DiCaprio. DiCaprio, Leo, right?

Kyrie Irving, I believe Shaquille, this eight or nine other big NBA players, high-net-word. High, visible sports. Beyond Meat is all over the NBA. The NBA players are eating this in droves. If you go to the website, you can see videos and clips. Have you had the product? So many times. You know, my daughter, Natalie, is vegan.

When this came out, she was beyond excited. I've been eating it now since the inception, and every person that I've ever asked to try it has thanked me. It isn't for vegans. It isn't for vegetarians. It's for the average person that's trying to eat healthier. So it says that the company was founded by Ethan Brown. Yes, Ethan Brown is the guy who I told you. So 2012 death that Seth sold honesty. He was brought on to be, I believe his title is executive chairman. Got it. So while he was winding down, he was wearing two hats. This is one of the few companies, Kevin, where it's doing good and the people are good. They are changing the world. This is a trillion dollar industry. I'm

not saying anything about valuation. Tell me real quickly before we go. Tell me about the deal. It got priced where. So they offered about 9 million shares. The initial filing range was 19 to 21. Demand was strong. It ended up getting priced. What is it value the company at? I believe they said, I think it was at 1.6 billion. Jesus God. But I think if it opens up where they're saying, it's going to open, it could be two or three billion. So again, don't quote me on the numbers, but this is a company that's attacking a trillion dollar industry. We should have gone to work for Seth a long time ago. I asked him, he said I wasn't qualified. So that's why I'm doing a podcast and I'll come back to you in a few weeks. You are. And we'll talk about it.

Because Howard or Howie, now he wants to be referred to. He is the best salesperson I've ever known in my life and he is really a motivational speaker and he's become that in recent years, not to mention his very successful Wall Street career and a good friend. All right, I'll talk to you soon. Could I give one plug? Yeah. How we doing it.com. H-O-W-I-E-D-O-I-N-I-T dot com or Facebook or Instagram. Join me any morning at 7 a.m. for a little live chat. It's like a short thing. It's a motivational thing to start your day and you're down there. Resilience. And you're down there on the beach in Florida. Wherever the road takes me. Kevin, it's awesome to see you.

Congratulations. I love you. Love listening to you. Amazing what you're doing. Congratulations, buddy. Well, that was a little bit of a change up there. And we don't do that very often. But Howie, Howard, for 30 years, 25 years.

But now it's Howie is a really good friend of mine. And he's been very successful and he's got a new deal going. And hopefully he got some friends and family stock. I didn't want to ask him because I don't know if he did or didn't. But hopefully you got some beyond meet friends and family stock, and it's a really good day for him. Howie doing it.com. That's Howie, H-O-W-I-E-D-O-I-N-I-T dot com, a plug for my buddy and his new business down in Florida. All right?

What else? I think that's it today, right? We did a lot today. We did do a lot today, unless you want to talk a little bit about Sean Miller or something like that. I haven't been following it that closely. I know that Sean Miller. Some of the transcripts are amazing. About what's his face saying that Sean Miller

Yeah, Book Richardson. That paid the guy, is it $5,000? $10,000 a month out of his own pocket. Aiton. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what? We didn't mention that Bruno Fernando is going to stay in the draft,

which we thought would be the case. Good luck to him. He was a really exciting and a memorable Maryland player for two years. Yeah, he is going to go down as one of my all-time favorites. to watch. I just wish we saw them for a few more years than Don, you know, teams that had more success. By the way, with that announcement and others, you know, yesterday, I guess it was the deadline to keep your name in or not? No, it wasn't. Okay, well, then why did Borzello at ESPN.com update his all too early top 25 for 2019 and 20 this morning? I don't know why he exactly did

this morning, but that was the interesting thing about it is that he has till the end of the month but he officially announced it yesterday. Some people thought, okay, well, there is this seven-footer who's looking for a scholarship for 2019 right now. Apparently he's taking the visitors and estates. This is a chloral, marial or whatever. The 7-3 guy who's had some injuries and apparently Maryland's in the running for him. By the way, on ESPN.com's top 25 college basketball, 2019, 2020, all too early rankings.

Maryland is ninth after the Bruno Fernando News. see how many big 10 teams are in the top 10? Michigan State's one, then Duke, Kentucky, Villanova, then Michigan's five, Gonzaga is six, Ohio State is seven, then Louisville, and then Maryland, and then Kansas. So Maryland, on CBS Sports recently, assuming Bruno was leaving, they had Maryland at five. Yep, Gary Parrish had them at five. ESPN's got them at nine. You know, I said that if they lose Bruno, but sticks comes back, they're no worse than a top 15 team next year. Looks like a lot of people have them a lot higher than just, you know, in the 15 range.

We shall see. Long time between now and the opening of college basketball season. One other thing, too, and I just read this as we were going through the show, and I would have mentioned it to Scott, but I didn't see it until moments ago. Serunis Yess Yassikavichus, who played at Maryland in the 90s and then had one of the great Euro League careers of all time is being considered as a Memphis Grizzlies head coaching candidate. And he is, I'm assuming he's been coaching in the Euro league. Yeah, his name has come up for college coaching.

Has it really? Not great, like kind of a dark horse thing. Hey, this guy's killing it out in Europe. He might be someone to at least take a look at. But never seriously. But yeah, apparently he's been absolutely killing it in Europe. Interesting. He was a good college basketball player. A high IQ could really shoot it. What he became, though, as a professional as he grew physically and matured and the whole thing, is he became a great offensive all-around player. And if I recall, he did get a shot in the NBA, right? Didn't he get a brief shot with, I want to say it was the Spurs? Maybe somebody else. Yeah, he was with the Pacers for a few years. Oh, it was the Pacers.

Yeah, but did not have a lot of success in the NBA, I don't think. It was late in his career, too, for the most part, I think. Yeah, he had been playing professionally for seven years before getting with the Pacers. Okay. Yeah, he was a good college player. I would imagine that he'd be a good coach. All right, that's it. We're done.

Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to Scott. Thanks to my buddy Howie. and for all of you that actually had stock in Beyond Meat today, congratulations. Tomorrow, Mike Shanahan will join us. He followed the draft closely, not just the Redskins draft, but the entire league's draft. We'll get some thoughts from him on all of the quarterbacks

and all of the team's drafts, including the Redskins, of course, and he'll join us tomorrow. Enjoy the day. Bye.