The Kevin Sheehan Show - Faucci Puts NFL in Bubble

Episode Date: June 18, 2020

Kevin and Thom discussed the latest recommendations from Dr. Faucci that the NFL needs an NBA "bubble" city strategy or it shouldn't be played. It led to a broader sports/pandemic discussion which included dire predictions from Thom about this coming Fall. More including Kevin's thoughts on the McGwire-Sosa doc and the "June 17th" 30 for 30 ESPN doc too. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Aaron's really been pushing me on coming back into the studio. And I think that he wants to come back into the studio in part, Tommy, because he misses being a part of the show. And I miss having him as part of the show. You know, Aaron's a big sports fan and a versatile sports fan and a knowledgeable sports fan. But I'm just not. as completely oblivious in my own efforts to, you know, steer clear of the virus because I've done everything. I've gone to grocery stores. I don't wear a mask when I'm out, you know, walking

around like so many people do. A lot of people in my life would say I'm taking too many risks. but the one thing that I haven't done is I haven't been in sort of an enclosed environment. You know how small this studio is with somebody that I don't know for sure is healthy. And Aaron's at that age where he could totally have, you know, COVID-19 and be asymptomatic. And, you know, I guess I should tell him, look, if you go get tested and you test negative, yes. but it's, I don't want to, I have not taken an, that's not true, I took an elevator ride once in the last couple of months. I steer clear of elevators, I use the stairs, I just make sure that I'm not in a confined space with people I don't know. That's what I, that's been my one,

uh, consistency with this is, you know, the whole viral load discussion, which we've had before, that was the one that made the most sense to me. So I've tried to avoid situations where I might be exposed to a significant large viral load. Now, when you say you go out without a mask, does that mean like the stores and stuff? Well, no, you can't go into stores without a mask. Okay. I have masks in my car that I wear when I have to go into a place with a mask, but I don't drive with a mask on.

No, I don't play golf. I don't play golf with a mask on, and I've been playing golf a lot recently. You know, I have a different feeling about everything when I'm outdoors. When I do my walk, I do a walk every day, I have a mask in a baggie in my pocket in case I would need it for some unforeseen reason. Other than that, I don't wear a mask when I'm outside walking. I make sure if I'm going to cross paths with somebody, and I'm usually the one to do this, I'll step away at least six or eight feet from that person if they're walking towards me on the same path. or they will do it. People seem to be very aware of not walking right next to each other. Same in my neighborhood.

Yeah. And most people going for those walks are rarely wearing a mask for those outdoor walks. I've seen a lot of people in my neck of the woods. We've talked about this before that are wearing masks outside when they're, you know, just walking around or walking dogs. I've seen a lot of that. I've seen people wearing. a mask driving a car by themselves. I don't understand that one. Well, I don't blame anyone who's too cautious. I mean, there's nothing wrong. There's no downside to being cautious here, I don't think, for most people. Now, here's the thing, like, if Aaron wore a mask, and you didn't, I think you'd be fine. But then every time he'd want to say something, he'd have to drop the mask. Yeah, I mean, we are barely, when he's in

this studio six feet apart. You know that. If it's six feet, it's exactly six feet. If he had a mask on, if he had a mask on, I think that would give you a reasonable feeling of protection. Only one of you has to have the mask. You don't both have to have it. You know, it's been reasonable for me over the last, going back to mid-March or whenever this started, is the ability to know and be very confident that, A, I'm able to go to work, which is great. And B, I can go to work, and it's a totally, you know, safe environment. I'm in here. I don't allow the cleaning crew to come in here.

They gave us early on a big red sticker if we were more comfortable cleaning out our space on our own, which I don't think I did for the first two weeks, but then I realized that that opportunity existed, and I took advantage of it.

Without you in here, you know, spilling crumbs all over the places you eat, it's been basically a very clean studio. And by the way, for those of you listening, I'm being truthful. When Tommy's in here eating

and he leaves, I have to go get the vacuum cleaner to vacuum up under his chair. There's not pretzel salt all over the place. So I have had that, you know, I've had that confidence of being able to come in here, not see anybody, not be in a confined space with anybody,

take the stairs up to my, my floor, walk into a studio that's been untouched by anybody other than me. And, you know, I love Aaron, and I love when Aaron's here. But even if he's got a mask on, like, you know, and even by the way, if he tests positive, if he tests negative, I'm going to want in a week from now him to test negative. Aaron's at that age where he's out and about. So are my kids, and they're coming back in the house. So I'm taking that risk at home, too.

My kids aren't staying inside anymore. They're going out. They're getting back to a normal lifestyle. They're socially distancing. They've got better personal hygiene. All of that is true. But they're with their friends. So I've already got that risk at home.

I don't know if I want to add to it here in a very small space, I guess. I mean, look, there's nothing on my horizon that would indicate a level of fear for me. except the third week in August we're still planning on going to the beach and that's that's that's 22 family 22 people

in three large condos LBI right no where do you go again Wildwood Oh Wildwood right Yeah Wildwood You know we're gonna I'm gonna fly to

Spokane to get my granddaughter Right and bring her back I'll be flying on a plane and I'll be at the beach is okay but I'll be in the condo with my niece from Florida

and you know that will just be a nervous time for me that's the only thing I have on my horizon where I think I'll be tested emotionally tested I'm actually I don't know if I want you making that

flight. You're vulnerable. As you said right when this started, this thing's coming for me. That was your quote in early March. A six-hour flight, which I'm guessing it's every bit of six hours from D.C. to Spokane, right? It's not nonstop. You got to switch planes. You got like an eight-hour day, right? It could be six to eight hours depending on connections. You're going to be You'll be as angst ridden over that flight as anything else. But it's for you... I don't think so. I'll have a mask on.

I'll have wipes with me. I might even wear rubber gloves for that. Well, don't scare your granddaughter when she sees. You've got to take the mask off so she knows who you are. She knows who I am. Believe me, nothing scares her about me. Yeah. Who knows where we'll be by then?

Do you have any vacations planned? Oh, my God. It's just... do I have any vacation plans? Well, you know, we were, I think I told you this, maybe I didn't. We were planning, and it would have been this week. We were going to do a golf trip to Scotland. My boys and I and Kara was going to come to,

and we're going to make a big trip over to Scotland, and we obviously, that got canceled for this summer, so we'll shoot for next summer, hopefully. And maybe we canceled it, you know, prematurely because it's very possible that we could have gone this week. I don't even know what the state of golf over in Scotland is, but we, it's something that we were planning on doing. Other than that, other than, you know, the trips up to my in-laws in Jersey where they are, which is Spring Lake and Avon and Belmar, that area, you know, we don't have anything currently planned. but I have all of this vacation time. I took Monday off.

CJ told me it's, I think he said it's either the second or third day I've taken off since I came back to radio last August. I took Christmas Eve off. I think I had one other day off or something and then I took Monday off. So I have a lot of vacation time left. I never use all my vacation time,

but I should use some of it. You know, the truth is these shows, Tommy, yesterday, I had Joe Thaisman on the show for 45 minutes straight. Well, actually, you know, Joe's got a book out, as you know, and it was really, I enjoyed it, and I think he enjoyed it, but some might say, well, how could you do 45 straight minutes? Well, radio's struggling right now, everywhere, nationwide. You know, anybody that's on the air is lucky to be on the air. Most of the people on the air, a lot of the people on the air have taken pay cuts to continue to be on the air.

And think about it. You know, it's different from TV. Radio, 90% of the people that listen to radio listen to it from their cars, especially in morning drive and in evening drive, afternoon evening drive. And we have had a four-month stretch of basically having most people not in their cars listening to radio. So that's really impacted the radio industry. On top of that, many of the advertisers that advertise on radio have been so impacted in their own businesses that their ad budgets have been either completely cut down to nothing or cut significantly. So it's been a tough time for radio. You know, talk radio in particular with sports.

Football season is huge, huge. I know. My prediction is if football season were to be delayed or somehow, you know, hit and miss without, you know, suspended, without any date to restart, you'll see a lot of sports-related broadcasting entities. You'll see them die. I really believe that. You've seen a lot of them, you know, a lot of them have been cut back to the minimal of operating staffs to begin with over the last four months. Yeah, I mean, I can speak to that personally, having lost my radio show on Saturday as a result of this. Yeah.

Well, we can then go into this discussion about the latest news on coronavirus and the NFL. Yeah, so this actually came out after the radio show, right, came out at about 930 this morning. Yeah. Dr. Anthony Fauci, who, yes, two days ago in the L.A. Times, said that he thinks baseball should end before we get into, you know, the later stages of fall, which I believe the end of October, usually when the World Series ends, that would be considered to be the later stages of fall. I mean, it's probably right in the middle of fall. I mean, but, you know, he essentially suggested that baseball should end at the end of September.

Remember just three weeks ago, he said he can see the NFL playing out its season with even some spectators potentially. That was three weeks ago. Well, today, here's the latest from Dr. Fauci. I'll read it straight from the ESPN story. Dr. Anthony Fauci says football teams would need to emulate plans by the NBA and Major League Soccer for a bubble format or consider not playing in 2020 due to the coronavirus pandemic. He told CNN that football players would need to be. isolated from others and tested regularly. Unless players are essentially in a bubble, he said, insulated from the community and they are tested nearly every day, it would be very hard to see how football is able to be played this fall. If there's a second wave, which is certainly a

possibility, and which would be complicated by the predictable flu season, football may not happen this year. That from Dr. Fauci, this morning. Now, the bubble concept is one city. Orlando. I don't even know what the MLS structure is, but I know what the NBA structure is. It's Walt Disney World in Orlando with hotels, you know, with rules. And, you know, that's, by the way, for two to three months. In some cases, for some teams, it might only be a month. For NFL teams, it would be August through potentially the end of December for most of the teams. Without, maybe their families.

This is why you can't really on a day-to-day basis get hung up with the recommendations. They change so significantly in short periods of time. This is the same guy that three weeks ago said he could see football having a full season with maybe even some spectators if they socially distance. This is why I have maintained that while they'll all try to start and they may all successfully start, I just don't think they'll be able to finish. I just think they'll all encounter one or particularly two dire situations or some kind of exodus of players who either get sick or who family members get sick.

And I just think that inevitably all these leagues are going to have to stop once they start at some point. I don't think any season is going to be completed. Now, let me ask you this, because you're much better at business and finance, and I am, I certainly acknowledge that. Are there owners out there that think that, you know, with the money I'm losing with no fan, plus the money it's going to cost me to implement all these changes in order to play these games with no fans,

am I just better off having no games? Are you specifically talking about the NFL? Any any of these. I mean, I don't know what the new costs, you know, to, I don't know what the new safety-related costs are. I have no concept of what, you know, the NFL will have to pay out for testing on a, on a frequent basis and quarantining and keeping facilities clean and having hand sanitizing stations

everywhere and then potentially in their stadiums, you know, having scanners. And I really don't know what those numbers are. I would say that for the NFL, given that it's a $12 billion somewhere in that neighborhood top line business, that they can probably afford all of the expense related to trying to keep their players and even their fans safe and still be okay. I'm taking fans out of it. You're already, the fans are not involved. They're not.

The live, to me, the live, I may be wrong on this. Just my, the immediate response would be, the cost to create a live fan environment seems to me to be an exorbitant cost, much higher than it will be to keep 53 or, you know, called 100 players, coaches, trainers, et cetera, in one location healthy. Because think about what the stadium, and I had this conversation, and I was telling you this about my conversation before we started the podcast. I had a conversation yesterday with a gentleman who has been a fan of the shows over the years. And I have communicated with him at various times on Twitter, and his

name's Howard Gutman. Howard was an Obama ambassador, the Obama administration's ambassador to Belgium. When I went to Belgium, remember a couple of summers ago, I talked about it, and he reached out to me, and we've stayed in touch, you know, social media-wise, and he reached out to me the other day, and we ended up having a conversation on the phone because he's really involved in a lot of what will likely have to happen for live sporting events with spectators. And one of the things he pointed out is, you know, you're not going to be able to guarantee the safety of anybody with just temperature screeners. You know, thermal temperature screeners.

It's got to be much more. It's got to be a scanner that not only takes your temperature when you walk into a stadium, but takes your blood oxygen levels and your blood pressure and your respiratory rates, all of this stuff. And there's product out there that does that. And by the way, also acts as a metal detector because you have to walk through a metal detector anyway. So it wouldn't be that much different for a fan. But what would happen in the event that, you know, you are deemed to be sick, you'd get refunded and you'd be turned away from the stadium. He's like, you're not going to get people to come back to these stadiums and you're not going to be able to get teams to be able to offer a safe environment where, you know, potentially lots of liability

exist without going, you know, the full length of being able to test appropriately and turn away sick people. So getting back to your question, there's, I don't know what the expense of making this work in this environment is, but I would guess that the revenues are more than enough to cover it in most of these sports. Okay. Okay. I mean, because, I mean, you know, sometimes it's better not to have your business open than to operate your business. Well, baseball's interesting because remember baseball, you know, had, you know, they've committed to these salaries and they haven't played one game yet. And much more of their revenue comes from LiveGate, whereas with the NFL,

much more of the NFL's revenue comes from television dollars. So baseball's in a different situation. I think what we've clearly learned is, you know, from an operating budget standpoint, a lot of these teams, and a lot of people don't understand this, they can say, well, these owners are billionaires, and that's true, but they want these standalone entities like this baseball team that they own. They'd like to see it make money or not lose a lot. And I think what we've learned from this particular negotiation period between players and owners in baseball is that a lot of teams would lose a lot of money this year if they tried to play too many games and pay the players, the

the players a full salary pro-rated. That's what they've essentially been saying here, is if we play too many games, we're going to get buried. And in the NBA's case, because they've already paid out, call it three-quarters to four-fifths of their biggest cost, which is salary, because they've played 65 games already, they need to get this playoff revenue. They've got to come back and get this revenue.

because they're already out of pocket on a lot of this. But to answer your question, I don't have enough information really. It's my guess that's certainly in the NFL, the revenue number far exceeds what the incremental costs to make things safe for teams to play games without spectators, that it would be more than enough to cover that. but you start getting into the need for hundreds of scanners, you know, at, you know, $30,000 to $40,000 a pop and, you know, all of the hand sanitizing stations and all of the social distancing and at the same time you're only allowing 25% of your capacity into your stadium. You know, those are big numbers, I would think, to make the live thing happen.

I would think so. You're right. You're probably right. I mean, without the fans, it's probably not cost-prohibitive. But I just know that basically, you know, I'm going to be teaching this class. My class, this is sports media at Georgetown this fall. And it'll probably be online, but they are examining ways to put, do it in the classroom. And it's stunning the measures that they're going to take. Basically, if I were to do it in a classroom, I'd be in a Plexiclass box. Oh, Jesus. I don't know. Maybe you'd look better in that. I can think of a box you'd look better in. Well, that's not nice.

Mine was at least one that kept you alive. The, uh, this, this statement by Fauci, Tommy, me is really big news. This is a stunning turnaround from where he was two, three, four weeks ago whenever it was. I know that, but this is, I said this for months. This particular thing, this particular part, whenever they've talked about baseball and making sure they ended the season by late October or early November, at the latest, they've expressed fear of the second wave that people expect to happen of this

virus. And I've always said, well, if that's the case, what's going to happen to the NFL? That's the heart of the NFL season. And it's the sport more than any other that it's impossible to socially distance. Yes. Like, I mean, basketball, too, in hockey also. But, I mean, for the sport. football, you're in the trenches. You know, it's, again, you know, it's funny because, you know, Fauci at one point, especially, you know, this may have been like three weeks ago when he was talking about the NFL,

at one point said that he didn't think that the second wave, he said there was a chance that the second wave would be less significant than he, they had originally thought. Like they weren't necessarily comparing it to the 1918 Spanish influenza pandemic, where the second wave was the killer. It mutated and came back much more virulent, and that's the wave that ended up killing millions and millions and millions of people worldwide during World War I. But I don't know, boy, a hub city for NFL games? What city would be a good hub city? You can't even say the cities that we were thinking about before because Arizona is now a hot spot.

Yeah, and Florida, I mean, I don't know why anyone thinks Florida would be a good idea, given that you don't even know what the numbers are down there. I mean, because, you know, they're trying to do everything they can to hide them. Maybe they need to do what UFC boss Dana White has done, come up with an island. Dana White has come up with Fight Island, you know, to basically state his event. in the future. The NFL needs to maybe buy an island. And build a stadium? Yeah. Oh, man.

Football Island. I don't know. I think that going back to, you're right, it's what you've been saying all along, you know, about the timing of the football season. And part of the discussion about the football season and football in general has been, they get to sit back and watch the three other, you know, major sports leagues be guinea pigs in this process and learn from it. Bottom line is we've got to get the therapeutic meds. The vaccine, I don't even know where they are on the vaccine.

And if it'll ever happen, I think there's some people that think it might not ever happen. We've got to get to the point where you can get a prescription, bring it to CVS, and take it like Tamiflu, and you're not going to die from this. virus, you know, unless you're really vulnerable or really old. And, you know, once you get there, then we are almost back to normal. That's what's going to solve all of this, because we're going to have lots of positive tests. You know, Ed Wurter reported from ESPN, he talked to three coaches, three NFL coaches, and they are very concerned about starting the season on time. They think the season should be delayed. The coaches were

interviewed on the condition of anonymity. But in the wake of the news the other day from the Cowboys and the Texans about all those players testing positive and Ezekiel Elliott in particular, it's like they're going to have positive tests. All of these leagues are going to have positive tests. So what's the plan for a major outbreak? I did a segment this morning Tommy on the radio show. I said, just give me a prediction about sports in the pandemic. It can be anything. You think

baseball is going to come back, but it won't finish. You think football is going to be delayed. You think, whatever it is, it can be anything, you know, in terms of thinking about what this new normal is going to be as it relates to sports. And I said two things. Number one, I am growing more cynical about the NBA return. Maybe it's because we're so far from when the season, I mean, we'd be in the NBA finals right now, and we'd be a week away from the NBA draft. I just, I can't picture myself being totally into these games in a hub arena and auxiliary gyms with players sometimes testing positive and being out and no fans in the stands without that intensity of the NBA playoffs. I have a feeling it's going to be a hard watch.

CJ actually had a really good idea today with basketball. Do you know that holiday tournament that's played the college basketball tournament that's played in the Bahamas? If you've ever seen that, it's usually a really good field, but the field house or the ballroom or whatever it is that they play it in, everything other than the court is darkened. So when you're watching it on television, the only thing you see is the court and the players on the court and the benches. That's it. You don't see fans. It's totally darkened. I don't know how they do that. It must be the lighting in the room itself. It actually is an awkward watch. It's a little bit disconcerting until you get used to it. You probably not watch the tournament that I'm talking about, have you? No, I have not. It's something that a lot of college basketball fans we always talk about. You know, it's like, man, that tournament in the Bahamas, the only problem with it is it's like it's played in the dark.

Like it's just, I mentioned this time, you'll remember this arena. Do you remember the Mecca in Milwaukee? Yeah. It was the Buck's home court. That court in the Capitol Center was the same way. It was super dark. Everything but the floor. Everything was dark around it.

And you have the ability with lighting to make that look that way, I think. I think the basketball should consider that. Definitely. Hockey should consider it. Anyway, one of my predictions was I thought the NBA was going to end up being, for me, a hard watch. And my second prediction, and this was before the Fauci thing, was that the NFL is going to have the most unpredictable season it's ever had. Because you have no idea how many teams are going to be impacted by positive tests and the loss of key players for two, three, four weeks. And we all know what a huge, huge factor, a huge determinant. in NFL games, in NFL seasons. It's health. The healthy teams end up being better teams, and the unhealthy teams typically are the bad teams. Just to throw a real wild card into this, a real stink bomb, this is the virus that's going to complicate everything in our lives, from sports to everything, is the presidential election in September and October. I mean, it's going to be so volatile.

You know, there are some people, I'm not necessarily one of them, but there are some people who think there'll be in October surprise of news of a vaccine that will come out, and what will be the truth in that, how will that impact everybody, not just sports, but all businesses. I've said that in locker rooms and clubhouse, It's going to come into play because there's this notion now that silence is not an option anymore. Well, silence equals complicity in a lot of people's minds.

Yes. So you just can't shut up. So our teammates are going to go down the line and say to other teammates, who are you voting for? You know, is that going to happen in these clubhouses in locker rooms? I mean, you know, as bad as things have been, and it's been a rough couple of weeks. I think September and October could be more alarming. More people in the streets protesting, more volatility, more anger, more distrust, and that will seep over into every part of our lives.

I should work for Hallmark. I should work for a lot of course. Yeah, it's so uplifting. You know, the whole dynamic in locker rooms is a real interesting way. to look at it. You know, I think most people don't consider it that way. But you're right. There's going to be, you know, and it won't be racial as much as it'll be cultural. It'll be political. And there will be a group of players that are going to say, no, who are you voting for? We need to know who we're in a locker room with. That's very possible. You know, and now,

normally that does not happen. Of course not. It's called a secret ballot. You know, it's one of the reasons we have a secret ballot is so that, you know, elections aren't influenced. Yeah, and most of the time people in the locker room will think, well, he's my teammate. I don't care what he believes. You know, we're all on the same team. That's always been the case.

Yes. I think that's going to be tested now. I think that's going to be tested. Where you won't see it manifest as long as we have. sport, and I'm talking about in the world of sports, is you won't see it manifest into unrest in stadiums because there aren't going to be spectators. You know, in 1968, the summer of 68, which obviously was a, it was an unrest, you know, cultural war summer. You know, we had our conventions, obviously the Democratic convention in Chicago in particular was majorly disrupted.

You can tell me what sports were. were like in the fall of 68 when Nixon's running against Humphrey and, you know, the left in the anti-war and, you know, they hate Nixon. And I, but I don't think it, I think the things that you're talking about, do you think that they spilled into the locker room? Maybe they did. You would remember this. I don't.

I don't think these are totally comparable, by the way, but there are some similarities. I think people are more willing to voice their political opinions now than they weren't 68. I think there was some volatility in 68 about how teams reacted to the killing of Dr. King. I think there were some divisions in the locker rooms. But at the time, you had very small pockets of athletes who were against the war in Vietnam. and, but, you know, the majority of the locker room was to say, hey, I'm just here to play football, or I'm just here to play baseball. So I don't, you know, it had some ripple, but I don't think it had a huge impact. Let me drop this on you for a second.

In 1968, I worked at the Republican National Convention in Miami. Did you really? Because you were in school at Miami at the time? No. No, I was a 14-year-old kid. living, spend in summers with my sister who lived in Miami, and she would go to work, and I'd just go off on my own. I got to learn the whole bus system in Miami. I would take buses everywhere on my own and just hang out places. And one of the places I used to hang out was the airport.

Back then, you could go any place in the airport. Right. And Miami Airport was very cool. Were you doing this by yourself or with a friend or two? by myself. Just by myself. And Miami Airport had like this Casablanca feel to it. You know, very international type. And it was a real cool place to hang out. So one time I'm hanging out there.

And all of a sudden I see all these people with sign at a gate, you know, when with Rocky, Nelson Rockefeller was a candidate for the nomination at the time, the governor of New York, you know, waiting for, you know, waiting for, delegates to come off a plane to lobby them to vote for their guy. And I'm thinking, well, I'm from New York. I know who Nelson Rockefeller is. I was born and raised in New York. So I started talking to one of them. Now, remember, I'm 14 years old. I started talking to a couple of them, and they said, well, we've got a hotel room up here. That's kind of our headquarters at the airport. Come on up. See what we're doing. So I went up there, and all of a sudden, I got a sign,

And I'm standing there at Gates, cheering Win with Rocky. You know, these delegates are coming off the plane. And then they said, why don't you come over with us to our headquarters over in Miami Beach, where the convention's going to be and come work with us there? So sure enough, I get on the bus at the morning, and I go over to Miami Beach, and I worked in the Rockefeller-Republican headquarters there, like stuff in envelopes, marching with rocky signs, and stuff like that. And I was, that's what I was doing when I was 14 years old.

I thought it was such a hoot. Yeah, and you were not, what's great about that is you're oblivious to the politics of all of it, too, at 14. You just want the experience in the work. Well, I knew that, I knew, I knew that he wasn't Nixon, and I knew that he was what you would consider. a moderate Republican, a liberal Republican, actually. I didn't know that, but I knew he wasn't Nixon. That's all I needed to know. Did you also know that he had no chance of winning the nomination at that point? Not really. I didn't really know that at the time. I didn't have a handle

on the odds at the time, but Rocky was the governor of New York, and I was from New York, so it all made sense to me. And I remember coming home that summer in school, that, the next fall and bring it in all these bumper stickers and buttons. Did you get paid? Did you get paid anything? No. I didn't get paid anything. It was all volunteer.

Yeah, it was all volunteer. But that was a great summer. I just, I had to run of the city on my own. I loved your description of the Miami airport, Tommy, because it made me think of that movie Catching Me If You Can with DiCaprio playing Frank Abagnale when he rounds up all the floor. flight attendance to give him cover as he gets back on as a pilot. And you could see just the beauty of the Miami airport and everything looked so pleasant.

Back when it really was, it was really cool to fly. Like it was sort of a privilege to fly. And there was an excitement about flying back then, right? Yes. It was a cool place to hang out. You know, it's funny, George Carlin wound up doing a riff on this, play spy at the airport. Try to figure out who the spy is and follow them, because there's got to be spies at the airport, you know. But, yeah, it was a cool time.

I remember taking a bus to Miami Beach and going on Lincoln Mall, which was one of the few outdoor street mall than in America. you know, it was basically a street that was close off the traffic. And I remember meeting the Osmond Brothers' father in the store. I don't even know how he met, but he was their manager and their father. And I struck up a conversation with him. It was that kind of, it was a great summer. It really was a great summer for a 14-year-old kid whose sister, who was only, she was eight years older than May, but she didn't particularly care what I did as long as I came home at night, you know?

God, those really are the days, you know. I mean, it's so, I'm trying to think why I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, but, you know, I'm not going to, I don't want to get into this conversation in great length, but, you know, I had a lot of freedom as someone that age too. And my kids and most kids don't have those freedoms anymore. And I think it's actually, you know, the protective shield that so many parents have put, you know, around kids and the scheduled nature of their lives from the time they're very young just wasn't the case for me. I've told you, like, at 14 years old, my best friend and I bought a car. You know, we bought a car for 10 bucks and got our good friend Colin Gillespie to pay 50 bucks for a Sears diehard battery because that's all it needed. It was a stolen car with, you know, license plates that we didn't know what the hell it meant, but we had the car for the entire summer. We drove it to the beach.

We drove it to Memorial Stadium to go to some Orioles games. We were 14, you know. Now, I'm not advocating, you know, that kind of thing. But I just think, you know, there you are. You're 14 years old. And you're running around Miami and South Beach and you're a part of the Republican convention. and you just wouldn't see any, you know, today, certainly in certain, you know, situations, it'd be hard to imagine kids, you know, caught up in that at 14.

Yeah, yes, it would. You know, I've told. But I'm so thankful for that time, though. Yeah, definitely, definitely. All right, let me tell everybody about Roman real quick. quickly and then we'll get to a couple of things, including the 30 for 30 that I watched last night, which was after I finished up that Sosa-Maguire thing. But if you were to guess on average how many days people in the U.S. have to wait to see a doctor, what would you say? A week maybe? Actually,

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But what do you make of the latest on baseball? Because we haven't really talked about that. The owner's coming back and offering 60 games, and it looked yesterday like there had been significant progress made. And then all of the sudden, the players said, no, that's not enough. My personal perspective, Tommy, on this, my opinion, they're going to have a baseball season. There's going to be baseball. but they appear to be further away now than maybe they were this time yesterday.

What's your latest take on negotiations between owners and players? I mean, it's just stunning what they're doing here. On the other hand, you know, everyone talks about how it's, you know, baseball is driving itself into the ground. A couple, like, what, two weeks ago, TPS signed like a $2 billion television deal. with Major League Baseball. So, I mean, you know, we hear this about all the sports. I mean, I talk about it with the NFL, how I think football is, you know, basically a sport that,

you know, that could find itself on the roads at some point, yet, you know, people are willing to invest more money than ever in these sports. So I'm not sure of the impact of this anymore. I think they'll play a season, like you said, but Manfreden ordered them to play. season as I understand it. And right now they're arguing, I think, whether it's 60 games or 65 games, there's still this question of, you know, the players waived any right to, you know, to basically arbitrate or to file a grievance against the owners, because I think there's reports

that the players union think they have a substantial grievance against the owners. and the owners don't want to fall into a collusion payment like they did many years ago. But I think there'll be a season, and I think eventually the game will find itself back where it was. You know, I just think they will. And again, you know, you tell me I'm wrong here. This is such a simple concept. It's got to be wrong, isn't it? baseball has the oldest demographic of fans.

It appeals to the oldest fans. It's a slow-paced sport. Right. Okay. The country is getting older. The population is aging. Doesn't baseball just have to wait to all these people get to their age, get to their demographic, get to their sweet spot?

I mean, what's the problem? if you're the oldest sport, what everybody in the country is old. Well, the question is whether or not older people enjoy baseball because it appeals to them because of the pace, et cetera, versus they've been baseball fans all their lives. And, you know, when they were younger, baseball was, you know, right there among the, you know, arguably the number one sport in the country. and they've always had an affinity for younger people feel differently about it, so I don't know what they'll feel when they get older. I don't know what they need to do. I think they need to play, but I said this to you the other day,

that if they don't play, which I don't think that's going to happen, I think they're going to play. But let's just say the worst case ensued in all the people that say that this would create, you know, irreparable damage to baseball. Well, that's just not true if the other leagues come back and aren't able to finish. The only way it's true is if the NHL and the NBA and the NFL all come back, finish their seasons, you know, are complimented, gave the country a huge uplift at a time where it needed it most. They finished their seasons, crowned champions, and baseball was the only one that didn't come back.

If other leagues don't do it successfully, we may barely remember that, baseball never even made an attempt. And baseball could potentially, and Zuckerman said this to me this morning, they could eventually look like the smart guys who said, you know what, we aired on the side of safety, even though that's not really what this is about. It's about economics. I don't, I think this is such an odd time. I don't know if there's irreparable damage with any result from these things. I really don't. I mean, I... We are in the age.

of, look, I know this should be an obvious thing because, you know, this is like the Mike Tyson quote. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Our life is unpredictable six months ago, a year ago, but we are living in the age of unpredictability right now. No doubt. Where you literally can't make any plan. Well, it's just you can't, and it's still amazing that we're where we're, where we're, are today based on where we were for four and a half five months ago. I mean, this isn't, no one could predict this. No one ever even discussed pandemics. Now, what's happened here

in the last three weeks has been building in many ways, but it also came at a time where a lot of people have been out of work. A lot of people are paying attention to everything. And, you know, and so the results, the reaction to it was probably even greater than it would have been. So I agree. It's everything coming together at once. I can't remember living through a time like this. I mean, 9-11 wasn't like this. 9-11, you know, let's not forget that 9-11, we took a weekend off from college football in the NFL,

and then the next weekend we were right back with our lives with the exception of one thing. And that was travel had changed for us. traveling and flying had changed completely for us. That was it. And it was us. It wasn't the world. And so this is different. We're on, you know, this thing started in early March.

We're mid-June right now. And we still don't have answers. In fact, we've got more questions than answers than even we had in March when everybody was so convinced that, oh, if we do this and we do that and we do this. And by the way, the big push, right? was social distancing, hygiene, we've got to flatten the curve to keep our health care system from being overburdened and overrun, and then having sick people never have a chance to get the care that they need. Well, we did that, but there's still so much uncertainty.

Somebody reported that 13 football players from University of Texas have tested positive for COVID, and Darren Ravelle reported 27% of the University of Texas football team has been sidelined because of the virus. Well, we had the Alabama story from a few weeks ago. Several players had tested positive and everybody had been exposed to them. I mean, this is, again, this is really simple right now, of course, subject to change. You cannot even make an effort to play sports if you're not prepared. to play sports with positive tests? Yep.

So you're moving forward, full steam ahead, doing your best to keep everybody safe, doing your best to test everybody to make sure that people who do have it aren't exposing themselves to other people and they're quarantined. But if you have a concern, like apparently three NFL coaches did with Ed Wurter, about playing with positive test cases, well, what's the point? You're going after this money.

You're going after the ability to bring some semblance of normal back to the sports world, but really it's about the money. You're going to with the mindset that we're going to have players, we're going to have coaches, we're going to have employees, we're going to have referees. People are going to test positive, but we're moving forward full steam ahead. We'll have plans for them, but what you haven't heard, and I've said this repeatedly, what you haven't heard is what happens in the event of a widespread outbreak where half of a team is quarantined, and the team that you're playing has half of their roster quarantined.

What do you do then? And then what do you do if somebody gets seriously ill and or dies? What happens then? Well, there isn't a plan for that. None of the leagues have disclosed or described that plan because it's impossible to do it right now. They don't know what it's going to look like two months from now when they're playing. Yes. I mean, there's the whole, I mean, this has been alluded to in various reports and stuff,

but there's the staff beyond the players. Some of these coaches are old. Some of these coaches fall into the category of being vulnerable. Are they not going to be able to do their jobs? I mean, look at baseball. Duffy Baker has had, it's a cancer recovery victim and had a mild stroke years ago. He's 71 years old. Did you hear it?

Did you see the story about the NBA coaches from the NBA Coaches Association? Yes, I did. That's why there have been allusions today, this being an issue. Dave Martinez had some kind of heart problem last year that required hospitalization. I mean, you know, I mean, and football coaches. I mean, has anyone gone through the rosters of all these teams and checked out the ages of all these assistant coaches and where they fit in? I mean, look, Bill Belichick, I think it's 70, isn't he? Oh, yeah, we're certainly approaching it.

Yeah. You know, there's some people out there that are listening to this conversation, and they're saying, guys, do you know what the death rates are? Do you understand who's impacted? These are all, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about it, the way it's impacting sports. and the way it could potentially impact sports, which are games where you cannot socially distance from one another.

You can do that at work. You can do that at a restaurant now. You've got blocks being closed down and tables being moved in the middle of the street for restaurants to come out and serve in a socially distance atmosphere. Sports is different. Football players in the midst of a game or practice cannot be socially distanced from one another. It can't happen. You can't wash your hands after.

every play. That can't happen. You're going to cough and you might even sneeze. And if you do that, you're not going to have automatic hand sanitizer that comes out of your pocket and wipes down your hands. These are the concerns with all of these sports. And specific to the coaches, you've got a lot of older coaches with underlying conditions. They're of the age that they're vulnerable anyway. And in any other line of work, they'd be told to stay home. And, you know, we're from home, but you can't do that in this work environment. So the NBA Coaches Association believes that guys like Mike Dan Tony, who's 69, Greg Popovich, who's 71, Alvin Gentry, who coaches the Pelicans, who's 65 years old, that they face considerable challenges in resuming their careers because their access to coaching

their teams is going to be restricted. You know, there's been discussion about them not being on the sideline during games. but being a couple of rows up in the crowd. So you could be looking at if this is a year or two years, you know, it's a legitimate concern. And you talked about the death rates and who they affect and how small they are. But, I mean, fear, rational or irrational is a real thing for people. you know and and I you know there's a lot of people that are sitting there thinking you know

I don't want to be the one to win this lottery there may be a small chance but I don't want to play that game I don't even want to risk my chance I think the I think the younger the younger you get Tommy and you're not around as many young people as I am all the time I don't even think most of them have any concern about this I think they are you know I think the smart decent ones are being responsible and they understand the risk they pose to the older people in their lives. But I really think that the significant majority are not thinking about getting sick or dying from this virus. I'm sure they probably aren't. I would be the same way probably. Yeah.

Because everyone wants to say it's not going to be me about anything like this. Sure. So real quickly, I watched the rest of the Sosa-Maguire thing, boring, slow, I thought it was poorly done the whole thing. I mean, obviously what you talked about, which is, you know, basically underplaying the whole steroid performance enhancing thing was really, would have been the interesting part of this documentary. You know, it would have been very interesting. Let me just make one observation for you. I forget if I mentioned this to you the other day after watching half of it. I think Mark McGuire, as you saw him back then, this is much easier to spot now than it would have been then.

He was very cranky, you know, he was grumpy, he was grumpy, he was very uncomfortable with all of the media attention, which was swarming him every day. I think he felt guilty. I think there was a sense that he knew he was. was cheating and all of this attention was based on, you know, was based on a cheat. I think that's part of why he looked the way he did in a lot of those interviews. Now, maybe that's just his personality, and you might tell me that that's true. But I just got this sense. And again, it's the perspective of knowing what, you know, why he ended up hitting all

those home runs, that this was a guy that wasn't comfortable with the way he was getting the results and felt guilty about it. What do you think? That may be. I don't know. Like I said, I mean, I had one extended conversation with him early in August before all this happened, and he was very pleasant to deal with at that point. It was just him and me in the locker room in Milwaukee.

But I also think it's very possible that he could be Lance Armstrong, just so arrogant in a way that he's. doesn't think he did anything wrong, even if he's telling people what they want to hear at this point. I'm not sure he, I mean, it could have been guilt or it just could have been, I don't really care. I mean, I'm Mark McGuire. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, you know, it's just, it's, the, the look on his face, like it was very, now, maybe he just wasn't comfortable and maybe he just got tired of it, but, you know, at some point, I just wonder if a guy like that, felt at some point, maybe I should stop hitting all these home runs. Maybe I should go on a real

cold spell just to give it more legitimacy. You know, you just don't know when somebody, you know, it's somebody that continues to rob banks that says maybe we should lie low here for a little while. They're starting to catch up with us. We got plenty right now. We got plenty of money. We can make it for the next year. Let's slow down. Real quickly, before I forget, Dexter Manly's healthy. That was great news to see Dexter. I don't know if you saw that statement from him, that video message, you know, said, you can't keep a good man down.

And then he gave advice to everybody saying, you know, if you don't feel well, go get tested. It's just good to see somebody like Dexter Manley healthy. Anyway, I don't know how I just interjected that into the middle of this. I just didn't want to lose that thought. Well, you wanted to make sure you covered it. Yes. That was good. And we covered it.

So the documentary that I did watch last night, or the 30 for 30 that I did watch last night, and I've seen it before, is the June 17, 1994, the OJ Chase during the NBA finals, 30 for 30, which was really well done. I saw it when it initially debuted, which, whenever that was, several years ago. That was so well done. You know, they purposefully, you know, picked a style which was no narration, you know, nothing about, there was no narration. It was all basically the clips, the audio from what was said in the moment on that day at that time, which I thought really made the thing move and made it really, really cool to watch. it's still to me

one of the most amazing days. I'll never forget that day. Do you remember where you were when they broke in, NBC broke in in the middle of, were you watching the NBA? You probably were because the Knicks were your former team. You were probably excited about the Knicks in the finals. Absolutely.

I was watching the Knicks at home when they broke in on the OJP. Absolutely. I remember I was at home. We didn't have any kids at the time. My wife was pregnant with our first. And I remember sitting there watching that game.

I really was rooting for the Rockets. I've always been, as you know, a huge Elijah Juan fan. And I was back then. I still think he's just, and it's crazy to say he's underrated because everybody knows how great he was. But I just think he's one of the greatest I've ever watched. And I was rooting for the Rockets, and it's 2-2, and it's game 5. and I remember specifically, and I don't know if it was because I bet the game or whatever,

but being really upset that they kept interrupting the game and kept minimizing the screen of the game. I'm like, wait a minute, this is game 5-2-2 in the NBA finals. But then I remember as we saw the Bronco and the scene in L.A. It was like, holy shit, that's O.J. Simpson. I know. I know. I mean, that's the guy who was on Monday Night Football. who was an actor, who was the Heisman trophy winner.

Absolutely. O.J. Simpson, it just, it could have been so many other athletes, and the reaction would have been, okay, can we get back to the game? And it was probably my reaction, as I said, early on. But this, as you said, this was O.J. Simpson. This man was beloved. This man was a true crossover star, Tommy, which is the way they used to describe. them. You know, whites that crossed over into black culture and black athletes or entertainers

that crossed over into white culture. You know, they were crossover stars. And O.J. Simpson was as popular in every, you know, demographic as he was among African Americans. And here he was, one of the biggest stars of his day, a suicide note in the back of a white, Ford Bronco with a gun in his hand, ready to kill himself, because it's now clear to everybody. Because I do remember not really having known much about the story of the murder of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. I remember that was sort of, I don't think I had been following this story in the days leading up to it. But the whole thing, it was just, it was surreal, surreal the whole thing.

It really was. I mean, O.J. Simpson was the leading spokesman for Hurt. Oh, my God. He was a mega star. He was a major store. Yeah. Tommy, he had to be, in the irony of this day, is Arnold Palmer's playing his final round at the 94 U.S. Open. I would bet that during OJ.'s career in the 70s, even into the early 90s, which is now far removed from even his broadcasting days probably because he wasn't doing Monday night football at that point, I would bet that Arnold Palmer, who is playing his final round. That was part of the day as well and part of the documentary. And O.J. Simpson were in the top five of endorsement athletes. Jordan would have been number one at the time in 1994.

But Tyson's probably there. But O.J. Simpson was one of the biggest earners from endorsements, corporate endorsements, as any athlete of his day. Well, I mean, this was a guy, not only endorsements, but he was an actor. Yeah. He was in those police story movies, whatever they're called. The ones with Leslie Nielsen. Yeah, yeah.

Well, he was also in that movie Capricorn One. I don't know if you ever saw that one about the fake moon landing. He was in the towering inferno. Naked Gun is what you were trying to think of. Yeah. That's it. He was in the Towering Inferno with Paul Newman and Steve McQueen. In the early 70s. Yeah, I don't remember that movie. I remember going to see Capricorn 1 for one reason.

O.J. Simpson was in it. That's the only reason you would have gone to see it. Yeah, that was a good documentary. I remember watching it when it first came out. Yeah, really good. It was really, what a day. You know, everything, all of the O.J. Simpson, uh, television, uh, television shows and documentaries of recent, very recent years, they've all been well done. They've all been so interesting. It's just, you know, you're sitting there and you're reliving that day. And to hear the chief of police say that O.J. Simpson is wanted and he's at large right

now. And he's considered to be a fugitive of the law. O.J. Simpson. And then you get his friend Kardashian. You know, we didn't know who, we certainly didn't know the name Kardashian before that day. And he reads what essentially is a suicide note. The whole thing was just crazy. And you had all of these different things happening. It was the first day of the World Cup in the U.S. It was the, as I mentioned, Arnold Palmer's final round at the U.S. Open. It would be the final round of a major championship ever. The Rangers were celebrating with a parade their 1994 Stanley Cup finals win. There was something else that was going on that day. I forget what it was, but politically.

And you had the back and forth between Costas and Brocaw and the splitting of the screens, and then they actually went to the full screen of the O.J. Chase. The whole thing was crazy. You know what? It has always been interesting to me, and I don't know if I have the answer to this. It's 1994. This is pre-cell phone era. You know, and if it is cell phone era, they're the huge cell phones, and there's no texting, there's no social media, and no one's really, no one's carrying around a cell phone, you may have had a cell phone in the car. I think in the, I think in 1994, maybe I did have a cell phone. Maybe I did. But it was a big one and it was, but how did all of those people end up on those overpasses watching this chase? How did they know to go there?

I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, I guess they were all listening to the radio, maybe. Maybe it broke in on the radio, and they were all listening in their cars. You know? Maybe that was it. It had to be. It had to be radio or TV, but the fact that they got there just in time to be waiting for them.

As he's coming up the freeway, the whole thing was so surreal. Anyway, what else did I have for you today? Do you know that they're running the Belmont? Did you know that this weekend? Yeah, I could care less. It's not the Belmont. Right. It's not the Belmont Stakes, you know.

I mean, it's the first race. They're running it shorter than normal. It's not the Belmont stakes. You know, I've never been a fan of the Belmont because when I've covered it, I don't think I've been to a horse track where I've had worse luck. than Belmont Park. I mean, I always did well at Churchill Down.

I did okay at Pemlico. I get shut out every time at Belmont Park. It was miserable for me. Yeah, I've never been to Belmont Park. Never. I've been to a lot of racetracks. I've never been to Belmont Park. Pretty nice.

Absolutely. So we don't have anything to talk about there. The last thing was this news that broke also this morning that Mike Gundy, when he was a player at Oklahoma State, used the N-word with a player that he played with. That player was Alfred Williams. He was a star linebacker at Colorado. And he wants an apology from Gundy after alleging that Gundy called him the N-word in 1989 when Gundy was a player at Oklahoma State. Gundy was a quarterback at Oklahoma State. Recounting the incident during an interview last night,

Williams told the newspaper that he doesn't want Gundy to be fired, but he does want an apology to see some growth. And he said, he apparently, he essentially said that if Gundy denies this, that we can't grow. I want an apology from him, I want him to see growth. I want him to have some growth. If he denies it, he said it, I have at least 20 people who will vouch for what happened that day. I'm a little upset because after 31 years, I finally saw the story published in your papers out in Oklahoma.

That was the first time I saw some of the responses to what I said. And this was after the other day, the incident with the O-A-N-T-shirt and his star running back going public with his being upset about it. Apparently, you know, he is met with the team. This is before the N-word allegation, and he's acknowledged that he was ignorant to some of the issues and ignorant to OAN. This accusation to me, Tommy, puts him into a position where it will be very difficult for him to recruit. I see him potentially losing his job. I said to you the other day that I know it's just a T-shirt, but in a lot of places he would have been reprimanded for that in this environment. the other day he would have been. Maybe not at Oklahoma State, but at other places.

I don't know how he survives this. You know, it's an accusation. I don't see how he does either. It's an accusation, but this guy Williams has made it before and says he's got 20 people that will vouch for him. The bottom line is, even if it isn't true or it's exaggerated, the accusation at this point combined with what happened the other day, this guy is not going to be able to recruit very well. No, I mean, who are young African-American players going to believe? Right. This coach, or are they going to believe the other guy? Oh, of course, you know?

I mean, so, no, I don't see how he's going to be able to keep his job. I mean, look, the guy's a meathead. We both agreed on that. Total. Total. And, you know, look, I hate to be in that environment without, you know, without actual information of having a strong opinion. But my guess and my gutting. is, is that he probably said it.

It wouldn't surprise me, given his performance what we've seen in the past. So... He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, that's for sure. Yeah. This is... I would bet it's the tip of the iceberg, too. I bet you there's more to come as it relates to him. That's my guess.

What do I know? I just want everybody to get along. I know you do. I know you do. Just like Rodney King. Listen, there's two minor things on McGuire's post on. I just found, we came across. You know, I went back and looked at all the stories I wrote then.

Which you were embarrassed about. Yes, I was. I was ashamed because I bought into it hook, lion, sinker. Right. But here's something I wrote that I forgot about. You know, when the Cubs played in St. Louis, the weekend that McGuire went past Roger Maris' record. I mean, Sosa was there that weekend. Right.

St. Louis police kicked out 100 Chicago Cubs fans from Bush Stadium for cheering for Sosa. And they threatened reporters with arrest who tried to interview the fans. Wow. That was, you know, Bob Carpenter mentioned this to me the other day. I think it was Bob. He said that the thing that he loved about the documentary is how well it illustrated the intensity of that rivalry. That Cubs Cardinals has always been such an intense rivalry

that everybody in baseball knows about, but not all sports fans have an appreciation for. I know that. Yes, I do. I think it ranks third behind Giants Dodgers and Yankees' Red Sox. Well, it definitely ranks second behind Yankees, Red Sox, but you've got it ranking behind Dodgers' Giants. What about Nat's?

What about Nat's? What about Nats? What about Nats? What about it? I'm kidding. What about it? Here's the one other thing, and they didn't have this in the documentary. After one of the games, Tony Larusa, said McGuire, not Sosa,

deserved to have the home run record. I mean, this whole thing was so weasley, and it's been celebrating. at such a great, glorious thing. And it's full of weasels and fraud and just a bunch of scumbags. Have you written about this this week? Well, I wrote a column for Wednesday paper. Yeah, I wrote about it. Kind of of of the stuff we talked about on Tuesday.

About you being ashamed. Yeah, I mentioned that in the column. You didn't send it to me. Well, I mean, I stopped sending columns. I'd stop sending emails to you for the most part. That's not true. I read 75% of everything that you write in the Times, and I read at least 50% of the emails that you sent me. That's awfully nice. It's not like we do a podcast together or anything. I read all of your emails. Stop. I'm being serious. You didn't send me the column from this week.

I gave, I stopped sending you my column. No, you didn't. You send me columns. You sent me columns last week. You didn't send me the, Whyer Sosa? Plus, we talk about it on Tuesday. Start sending me your columns, damn it. I like your columns. All right. You know what? You could just follow my Twitter account.

I post them on Twitter. I'm not, I'm only tweeting out guests coming up and retweeting segments from the show. I'm not, I'm not, I'm just not, social media right now to me is toxic and it's an insane asylum, and it's not reflective of majority. Decent People opinion. I don't like it right now. Sorry. I guess it's not sort of faint-hearted, is it?

It's not even that. It's just like I told you the other day, it's a time suck. All the sudden, you're like, oh, my God. And you respond to somebody, and then all of a sudden, 45 minutes have gone past. I love taking calls on the radio show. I've always wished we could do it on the podcast. It's just not really that practical to do that.

And some of you hate calls. Some of you over the years, whether it was Tommy and I doing a show together when we would take calls. You'd be like, please don't take calls. Whatever you do, we'd rather listen to you guys make fun of each other than listen to some of the callers. But I actually like, especially in those moments where we've all had, I guess a shared experience would be the way to describe it, watching a game. I like those days when people are really emotional and everybody knows what everybody's talking about, I would say. Even though many times we disagree, that makes it even better. Okay, what else from you today? Are we done?

That's all I got today, boss. That's it. All right, Tommy, thanks. And thanks to all of you for listening. Stay safe. I will be back with a podcast tomorrow.