The Kevin Sheehan Show - Feels Like Trubisky + A Rookie

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

Kevin opened with the Rick Pitino tweet that he won't be Maryland's next head basketball coach. Then it was a combination of things said by Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew yesterday that leads Kevin to believe that Washington is now dialed in on a combination of a Free Agent QB plus a first-round QB pick. Steve Sands/NBC-Golf Channel joined the show to discuss the Maryland basketball job, the Commanders name and QB search, and the Phil Mickelson Saudi saga of the last few weeks.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. He is Kevin. Steve Sands will be on the show today. Our good friend, Steve Sands, we'll be on the show. Of course, Steve, Golf Channel, NBC, golf coverage.

Bay Hill starts today, the Arnold Palmer. But Steve is not going to be there for the first time. And I think two plus decades. He'll tell us why when he joins us later in the show. We'll talk Terps with him. We'll talk Washington. commanders with him. And we will get sort of an explanation from Steve as to the Phil Mickelson situation, which

is a story that we have not discussed over the last couple of weeks. Phil's really done some damage to himself with the comments about the PGA tour and the Saudi tour. Steve will explain all of that to us when he joins us a little bit later on in the show. So there are two main topics before we get to Steve. One is the Rick Petino tweet from this morning. And two is Ron Rivera's comments last night on a CBS Sports interview. CBSSports.com.

Josina Anderson was one of the interviewers. She's done a good job as a reporter, NFL reporter, for years. He said something. And Martin Mayhew said something yesterday. that I think are big indications of where they are right now in their pursuit of a new quarterback. But before we get to that, I'm going to start the show with Rick Petino, the head basketball coach, the Hall of Fame basketball coach, but the head basketball coach currently at Iona University, Rick Petino tweeted out the following this morning at around 8.45 a.m. quote, the University of Maryland is one of the premier institutions of higher learning.

Its basketball program can be among the nation's best. I hope they find the next great Gary Williams. I love coaching at Iona and I'm totally committed to my players. It will not be me. Rick Petino telling you pretty definitively that he's not going to be the next coach at Maryland. Why did he tweet that out? Well, it's what we talked about yesterday, the sports junkies, Jason Bishop and Eric Bickle of the sports junkies, 1067 the fan, our sister station now. They had a report yesterday that several Maryland boosters had Rick Petino as their number one target.

I think some people took that report and said, oh, Maryland's going to offer Rick. Rick Petino and Rick Petino is going to be the next next head coach of Maryland. That's the way these things work. That's not what they reported. And we talked a little bit about this yesterday. What they reported was that Maryland has, you know, some meaningful boosters who want Rick Petino badly and have targeted Rick Petino as their number one choice. As I mentioned, I think yesterday, I don't dispute that at all. In fact, it would support. surprise me if several of the Maryland boosters, especially those up in the New York area, hadn't made it very clear through friends, Maryland people, media people, that Rick Petino is their

top choice. So I think the reporting on that was 100% accurate. But I think the issue is that the school, specifically the school president, Daryl Pines, maybe even the athletic director, Damon Evans, I'm not sure, but those that would have to sign off on the hiring of Rick Petino, which would be a controversial hire. I don't think I'd be very hung up on what happened at Louisville. He's been coaching at Iona. You know, he's already back into coaching,

and what happened at Louisville happened at Louisville. And, you know, even though it involved hookers and recruits, and there are many groups that would be outraged by the hiring of Rick Petino at an institution like the University of Maryland. Most of the paying customers would be thrilled with the hiring of Rick Petino. And at some point, you get down to, well, okay, so if we hire Rick Petino, we're going to sell out the building. We're going to be a contender nationally, in the Big Ten and nationally, for the next several years. and it's going to be a huge boon to business against, you know, people that couldn't give a shit about the Maryland basketball program. And I'm not saying that everybody that would be against the hire would be, that they're not Maryland basketball fans,

because there would be many, I'm sure, that would be outraged by it. But I think the significant majority of people who actually go to Maryland basketball games and watch Maryland basketball games and care about Maryland basketball games would be thrilled with the hands. the hire, whereas many of those that would push back on it are probably people that, you know, wouldn't be, that haven't been paying customers or wouldn't be paying customers with or without Rick Petino at Maryland. So personally, I would have weathered whatever storm, and I don't think it would have been a major cat five. I think it would have been more like a cat one, and it would be a fast mover. I would have weathered that and I would have gone for the home run higher, which would have been Rick Petino. As I've mentioned several times, going back to December when Turgeon departed,

the next head coach needs to be a great coach, and it would also be nice if it came with personality, because this program needs to be injected with enthusiasm, with juice. This has always been a very passionate fan base that right now is a bit in hibernation. It's in that, you know, interim phase, as I kind of described the Washington football team, you know, description of the team that's been playing football in Washington the last two years. It's felt very temporary and interim, nothing permanent. Well, this year, even though Danny Manning's doing a great job, and the player, they won again last night. They beat Minnesota 84 to 73. They've won four out of their last five games. They're back to 500. They're actually a decent team right now, the way they're playing.

And they're going to be held to deal with down the stretch here and into the Big Ten tournament. They've got one regular season game left Sunday at Michigan State, and then they play the Big Ten tournament. But the program feels very much that it is, you know, in a dormant phase waiting for the next head coach. And if you hire some guy that you've barely heard of from a non-power-five league, even if he's great, well, it's going to take some time for the enthusiasm to come back, and it's only going to come back when they start winning and winning big again. Well, Rick Petino would have been the answer to great coach and the immediate, immediate economic results. I think they would have sold out their season tickets within a couple of weeks for next year had they

hired Rick Petino. But my belief is that there are two things at work here. Number one, One is that those that would have to sign off on this, Board of Regents, school president, et cetera, have not been in favor of going down that path and have feared what the PR ramifications to hiring Rick Petino would be. Again, I think they're overstating what they would be. I think on the Hurricane Sapphire Simpson scale, it would be like a cat one, like, you know, literally like 77 mile per hour,

wins, 80 mile per hour wins, and it would be a fast mover, and it would be gone. And then the winning would take over, and the financial boon of season ticket holders and one of the hardest tickets to get in town would be what everybody would then embrace. And it's really important, by the way, whomever the hire is. They've got to be a good coach. In the Big Ten, you've got to be a really good coach in that league. You cannot be a middling coach, even if you've got personality in that league. It's just too well-coached. And that's why, you know, not to beat a dead horse, that's why I have said that I don't think I know that Mark Turgeon was a good basketball coach, is a good basketball coach, because he was the third winningest coach in the best coached league in America

during his seven years in it, behind, you know, Hall of Famers in Izzo and a maybe future Hall of Famer, Matt Painter. Anyway, I think Petino, his statement sounds very definitive. And whether it's not because he, whether or not it's a result of him knowing that while a lot of Maryland fans and a lot of Maryland boosters and maybe even the Maryland athletic director, who knows, maybe even the, maybe even the search firm that they have. I have no idea. Maybe all of these people wanted it, but he knew it was a non-starter for the, you know, the people that would have to sign off on it. And so, you know, he's taking himself out of consideration. Or if it's part him saying, you know, great opportunity. And, you know, 10 years earlier, maybe. But I am a New Yorker and I'm living in New York. I'm coaching in a non-pressure situation at Iona. I'm making decent money. And I don't even need the money. I'm playing golf at. winged foot in every great course, you know, in Westchester and then in the Hamptons.

And I'm not leaving here to go back into a pressure cooker at a basketball school in the Big Ten. That's possible that, you know, it's more him than it is the school. But I think it's, you know, more likely than not. More likely than not, I think it's the fact that maybe the school was never going to move forward with this, even though some key boosters potentially, were very much in favor of it. I think it's unfortunate. God, I mean, I'm enjoying watching this team right now play, you know, in front of like half-filled, you know, arenas. And last night

was dead. I didn't go. Ohio State on Sunday was big time, not big time, but it was, I think, one of the better crowds they've had all year. Still nothing resembling what we know the Maryland crowds can be. Last night was senior night, and it was just a horrible turnout. They played well, though. Love Fats Russell. Love Eric Iala. Really am going to miss Eric Ayala. There's something about his whole style too. It's so smooth.

It's so not rushed. It's so non-stressed. Sometimes that leads to trouble for him, but he can really score. But I think Patino's statement was not one of these,

you know, I'm in the middle of a season. I'm going to take myself out of consideration here publicly, but really what I want is I'm negotiating with them. Now, I think this was pretty definitive. That's my opinion. I've seen the reactions on Twitter. There are, you know, 3,500, you know, quoted tweets. I mean, people are weighing in from all over the country, but a lot of Maryland people weighing in. And I think he's probably, if he's watching these responses, he's getting an understanding really of how passionate the Maryland fan base is. about its basketball program.

But I think he knows that because he knows Gary Williams and he's friends with Gary Williams and he understands what Maryland is. But I think that there's a good chance that this was really an understanding of it's not a possibility, whether it's because he doesn't want it to be or the school doesn't want it to be. I don't think this was negotiating

or trying to end the conversation as he's in the middle of a very successful season at Iona. I think it's definitive sounding to me. Okay. When we come back, who are they going to hire? I don't know who they're going to hire. You guys ask me this all the time. I don't know who they're going to hire.

I'm hearing the same names that most of you are hearing. Andy Enfield, Kevin Willard, Ed Cooley, you know, I don't think people like Nate Oates are possibilities. Bruce Pearl's no longer a possibility. You know, I've mentioned John Beeline's name before because I think he's an outstanding. coach, but I have no idea if he wants to get back in coaching. He's older. You know, the guy at Virginia Tech's a hell of a coach. I mean, I think more likely than not, they're going to end up with a guy that is coming from a lesser program, whether it's a Power 5 program or a non-power 5 program. You just hope they end up getting a good coach. Because winning the press conference,

means zero in the big 10. You better end up with a damn good basketball coach who can go toe to toe with Izo, with painter, with Pichel. You know, I'm talking about, you know, on the schools you don't even think about in the Big Ten, you know, the coaches are outstanding in this league. So anyway, I mean, Fred Hoyberg, who is an NBA, he's probably right now in Nebraska all of a sudden is playing, you know, pretty well. But it's like Fred Hoyberg's got the worst program.

And Fred Hoyberg's like been a very, been a successful coach. You know, the guy, the first year guy, Penn State, Shrewsbury's doing a hell of a job. Fran McCaffrey obviously can coach. Greg Gard can coach. Brad Underwood can coach. You know, Juan Howard obviously has gotten a thing going even though it's been a step back year. I think that, you know, Chris Collins is a good coach. I think it's tough to recruit to Northwestern for basketball.

Holtman's an outstanding coach at Ohio State, even though they've struggled here recently. Okay, when we come back, I want you to hear what Ron Rivera told CBS Sports in an interview last night. And in combination with something that Martin Mayhew said, I really think that we've got a pretty good understanding of where they are right now in their off-season plan to acquire a quarterback. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. March is here. the madness has officially begun, it's time for you to shoot your shot and score big on the non-stop action with My Bookie. Predict winners in each round of the My Bookie bracket contest for a chance to win a Bitcoin, a doodle NFT currently valued at over $50,000 and over $100,000 more in cash prizes.

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Pretty small for quarterback hands. Joe Burroughs hands were nine inches, so a half inch longer or larger, however you would describe that. But there you go. The news, everybody in Indies been waiting for the size, the actual size of Kenny Pickett's hands. And they actually came in a quarter inch larger than what was predicted, because I had been hearing eight and a quarter inches. On Kenny Pickett, if you missed yesterday's show, we played in its entirety, the interview that I did with Mark Whipple, his offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Pitt the last couple of years.

Coach Whipple was great talking about Kenny Pipple. picket the player, Kenny Pickett the projected pro, Kenny Pickett the person. I thought there was some real good insight there from his OC and quarterback's coach from the last couple of years. That was on yesterday's episode. So I want to play for you, something that Ron Rivera said. I think it was last night, it may have been yesterday afternoon, on a CBSports.com interview with three people, one of whom I know, and that's Josina Andrews. Anderson, longtime NFL reporter. And the other two gentlemen, to be honest with you, I'm not sure who they are.

But Ron Rivera was asked several questions, but this is the answer I want you to listen to more than any other. He was asked about the process of searching for a quarterback. Here's what he said. Well, I think this team needs a veteran. I really do. But it's not going to preclude us from looking at a rookie. It's not going to preclude us from saying that, you know, if we ended up with a veteran and also we draft a rookie, that this rookie is not going to get an opportunity.

You've got to be honest about that. I mean, so as you look at that, what we decide is not going to preclude us from doing something else. We need a veteran, a veteran, he said. And then he said it would not preclude them from drafting a rookie quarterback. Saying you need a veteran and then following it up with, but that wouldn't preclude us from drafting a rookie quarterback, tells you exactly where he is right now or where they are in the pursuit of a quarterback. They're not going to get, and this is hardly a big,

reveal. I understand that. But it's just confirmation that they have struck out, not that they've struck out, but maybe they were never pitched to in the Aaron Rogers Russell Wilson conversations. The Deshawn Watson, you'll hear what he said about Deshawn Watson here shortly, but they are talking about a veteran and then it wouldn't preclude them from drafting a rookie because that veteran is not going to be one of those guys. Because if it was going to be one of those guys, you wouldn't be drafting a quarterback. If you traded for Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson, you wouldn't then go draft Malik Willis or Kenny Pickett. Now, you might say, well, Rogers only has three years left, so you might do it that way. No, you wouldn't do that. You're not going to do to him what Green Bay did

with Jordan Love. You're going to give him players. You're going to give him players. You're going to give the defense players. You're going to sign Devante Adams, you know, and you're going to start rounding out the team so you can try to win the Super Bowl next year. You're not drafting a quarterback at or anywhere in the top 50 or 60 picks. So he, with all intents and purposes, told you, again, not hugely revealing, that, you know, the big swing, you know, when they had 42 quarterbacks on their board and they've reached out to every single NFL team to inquire about quarterbacks and the cost, which we told you about yesterday from Kimes column, they're trying. Okay, but, you know, Rogers may not be available at all. or Rogers might be available, but not to them. Diana Rusini on my radio show on Friday said,

yeah, Washington's not one of the teams that have reached out to Green Bay because, in essence, Rogers isn't going to play for Washington. He wouldn't play for Washington. And by the way, Green Bay would trade Aaron Rogers if they traded him to an AFC team. We've talked about Russell Wilson ad nauseum. If they decided to trade him, I think Washington might be a team that, well, I know. Washington would be a team he'd be fine with. but Washington wouldn't be able to get Russell Wilson.

They don't have anywhere near what teams like Philadelphia or the Giants in their own division could offer. So Ron Rivera told you right there, veteran second tier, third tier guy, Ryan Fitzpatrick, year number two. But since we have 11 this year, we are going to draft a quarterback too. And you'll hear what he said about Malik Willis here shortly. But I want to pair that up with what Martin Mayhew said yesterday. when he was asked about how hard it is to project where the salary cap will be allocated when looking for a quarterback.

Because there are a couple of things that he said yesterday that I want to talk about, Martin Mayhew, that is. But this specific part of his answer is important. I'm going to read it to you. We're looking at everybody. That is a big piece of the puzzle. What we spend there, obviously we can't spend somewhere else. So that we're waiting, we're trying to get that to come together working on that. You don't use the verb spend when talking about a trade. You don't use the verb spend when talking about a draft choice. You certainly don't use the word spend when you're talking about one of your own guys

that's under contract already for hardly any money. You use that to describe the pursuit of a free agent quarterback. what we spend there, obviously we can't spend somewhere else. That with Ron Rivera, we need a veteran, but that wouldn't preclude us from drafting a quarterback and having a rookie, you know, as a possibility as well. So I think the conclusion you come to, and this is a dynamic situation, it could change. But right now, on March 3rd, 2022, Washington's big, swing probably was never taken because unlike last year where Matt Stafford was legitimately

available, none of these other quarterbacks are legitimately available or not available to them. Number one. Now, for those of you that would say, well, they need to make those guys available to them. They need to go in and tell Green Bay we'll offer you three first rounders and Chase Young and Montez Sweat and, you know, Terry McClure. I'm just throwing out a hypothetical. They don't, Green Bay might want to take it, but Aaron Rogers might say, no, not going to Washington, I'll retire. Russell Wilson has a no trade clause. So he doesn't have to take the deal to Washington. But by the way, again, Washington could outbid everybody for Russell Wilson, but they don't have anywhere near the dry powder to do so.

But again, Pete Carroll said yesterday, Russell Wilson ain't going anywhere. And that makes the most sense. So they, I think Ron Rivera, more so even than Martin Mayhew, they told you where they are. You know, they had these grandiose plans and they talked about taking the big swing. Well, you know, they didn't get that at bat for the big swing more likely than not. You know, they're coming in in another spot where they're going to be asked to probably, you know, move somebody over from first to second, a little sack for sack bun to get a runner into scoring position.

And what it's going to be is it's going to be a free agent from the group of guys that we've talked about. Mitchell Trabisky, Marcus Marriota, James Winston, Andy Dalton. Jimmy Garapolo would be a trade. I still think he could end up in San Francisco, as I said yesterday. Derek Carr's not going anywhere. Kirk Cousins isn't going anywhere. This is where they are right now. I don't know if this was on their grand plan, if this was plan B or plan C or plan D.

it wasn't plan A. So they're already in, you know, at the very best, in best case scenario, is they're like in plan B. You know, we've liked Trubisky. We liked them last year. But now we really like them because Sean McDermott and Brandon Bean, both in Buffalo, have had him for a year and we've heard some really good things. And remember, Rivera's got good relationships with those guys.

And, you know, we really like his upside and he's 27 and he's mobile and he can run our offense and he's certainly better than what we have. I know Jay Gruden told us that. he wasn't sure that he was better than what they have. I think he is. And then, you know, we can draft somebody. We can draft, you know, Malik Willis. We think he's got a big time ceiling. And he, you know, can do what we think he needs to do, which is sit behind a veteran for a year. So we'll have a guy that will make us more competitive, more dynamic offensively, you know, with a team that we're still trying to build out that we think's pretty good right now anyway.

And then we've got our future guy as well that'll get everybody. excited. And if Mitch doesn't work out during the season, we can play the young guy if he's ready. Oh, by the way, we've also got Taylor sitting over here as a great guy in the quarterback's room that we're barely paying any money to that we really like in a pinch if everybody gets hurt. I think that's where they are right now. And I think that's where it's going to end. Now, the big issue is of all of those other guys, how, you know, what's their depth chart on that look like? Is it tribistic? 1, Marriota 2, Dalton 3, James 4. I mean, whatever it is. And what if number one is Trubisky and there's too much competition and they strike out?

Because Trubisky decides, no, I like the Pittsburgh situation better. Or I like the Denver situation better. Or I like the Tampa situation better because there may be a competition for Trubisky. And then they end up with Marieto. We'll never know more likely than not of the veterans that Ron Rernerner. Rivera said they need that they end up acquiring whether or not that guy was number one on the list or number four on the list. But it's going to be competitive. We know that. They may not get the guys right now. Plan A may have been Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson. Plan B may have been a trade for

Derek Carr. Plan C may have been Mitch Trubiskey and we draft somebody. Plan D might be Marcus Marietta and we draft somebody. Plan E might be Andy Dalton and we draft somebody. We draft somebody. Who knows where this bucket of free agent quarterbacks, how they've got them ranked, it would surprise me if Trubisky's any lower than second on that list. Because we've heard Marietta's name. We know that they looked into trading for Marietta last off season. We forget that. There was a report that Washington had been sniffing around

with Vegas about trading for Marietta. So this is where they are right now, subject to change. I wanted you to hear also what Ron Rivera said about Deshawn Watson during this interview with CBSSports.com last night. Because I do think that the Deshawn Watson situation is obviously a fluid situation. But for right now, the fluid's kind of still. Like everybody's waiting. But it's, you know, nobody's moving. Miami took themselves out of the Deshawn Watson sweepstakes, if you want to call it that, publicly yesterday. GM Chris Greer saying, no, we're out of the, we're not interested anymore in Deshawn Watson. Why would you do that right now publicly? That's interesting. I don't know why they would do that publicly unless they are legitimately out because maybe some of these guys know a lot more about the civil cases or a lot more about what's coming on the criminal charges on April 1st. It's a real weird situation.

Here's what Ron Rivera said. Well, you know, I think in certain situations, circumstances, clarity, and some sort of resolution is probably best for all these things. Because, again, we just, we don't know who's available. And we don't know what the circumstances are. So as we go forward, having answers, most certainly makes things a lot easier. Yeah, I think everybody needs a resolution to this Deshawn Watson thing. I think you'd be nuts to go into a big-time deal, two firsts and a big-time player, without really. really being confident about what the resolution was going to be, if not having it resolved already.

There was the report last week from Mike Floreo at Pro Football Talk that there were multiple teams that were willing to deal for Deshawn Watson, even without the civil cases being resolved. You'd still have to know how they're going to be resolved and how the league is going to handle it. You're not going to trade two firsts and a key player, or three ones and a key player. for Deshawn Watson, if he's going to be suspended for a year, you wouldn't mind if he's going to be suspended for four games, but if you get into, yeah, he's gone for half the year or a whole year. And by the way, you don't know exactly, you know,

what's been resolved completely on the civil stuff. And maybe the league wouldn't suspend him. But if you've got sort of an idea of what the league's going to do and it's going to be serious, bottom line is, Washington for now, Rogers, Wilson, Watson, not going to happen. The veteran that he wants is going to come from the list of free agents, and then they're going to draft Malik Willis or Kenny Pickett if those players, if one of those two players is at 11.

Or they're going to draft the player that they really like, even maybe if that requires a trade-up, which I would advocate if they really like the player. And the player that I think has the highest ceiling is Malik Willis. And this is what Ron Rivera said on this interview last night about Malik Willis. You know what's interesting about him in particular is there are a lot of similar traits to a lot of these guys that have had success in our league. And I was fortunate enough to have drafted one of them in Cam Newton, who's a very special player. This young man has a tremendous skill set. You know, will some of those things he does translate?

Absolutely. Will there some things that he'll have to learn and develop and grow on? Absolutely. But I can't tell you to have an opportunity to interview him. He's a heck of a young man. And he shows he's got the football acumen that you need to be. be successful in this league. So, you know, is he a guy that you've got to look at and pay attention to? Definitely. So a guy that's got a lot of similar traits to some of the guys that are playing

at a high level. And he kind of compared him to Cam Newton a little bit. Cam Newton's much larger than Malik Willis. I mean, Cam Newton is just huge. But I think this was a result of having just interviewed Malik Willis earlier in the day and maybe liking what they got out of that interview because they had some interest going into it, but they wanted to learn more about him. If you watch the tape on Malik Willis, he's got high ceiling, very high ceiling. I don't know what his floor is,

but I mentioned, you know, three weeks ago, two weeks ago, whenever it was after watching hours of Malik Willis game tape, that there is high ceiling there. And any NFL evaluator is probably going to say, boy, this guy's got a lot of physical ability. This guy can really make some plays, can make some throws, and is incredibly mobile and looks like some of the guys that are out there running around making plays right now. And then if you like him on top of that, and he's mature, and he's a worker, and he's a leader,

and he's a communicator, and he's a cultural fit for the culture you're trying to create, I don't know, maybe they caught Ron Rivera with a moment of Malik Willis Bliss. Malik Willis infatuation. It wouldn't surprise me if Malik Willis ends up being the first quarterback taken in this draft, and it also wouldn't surprise me if Malik Willis ends up going higher than 11. And that to get Malik Willis, you may have to trade up to get him.

Nobody's predicting that right now. I understand that. We know as NFL fans, the quarterback thing changes between now and April 28th, or whatever the date of the first round is. There are two more cuts from Ron Rivera's interview with CBSSports.com that I wanted to play. This one, he kind of spoke to the time frame on the quarterback and whether something should be coming soon. Here's what he said.

There's only so many potential trades. There's only so many potential free agents. And if not by then, you are going into the draft and that's where your next quarterback's going to come from, potentially. So, you know, we have to listen. We have to pay attention. We've got to talk to. So that's really our main focus as we've come here. So let me do a little bit of Kevin Ron Rivera translation here

because I think I know what he is trying to say in that answer. He's giving you the timetable. You know, he's telling you that these trades, you know, they basically over the last few years, they've already happened. They've already been announced. They're not formalized until the league calendar begins. But, you know, the trade thing would have already happened. And then if there's a free agent quarterback that is going to be competed

for like a Mitchell Trabisky potentially, that's going to happen pretty early in free agency. And so if you strike out on all those things, then it's like, you know, it's time to look at the draft, you know, for the answer, which by the way, it may come, you know, it might be both free agency in the draft, as we've already talked about. But if they strike out on all those things here over the next couple of weeks, then it's going to be focusing on the draft. You know, I guess they could always get somebody a little bit further down the road. You know, not all quarterbacks get signed right away, and a lot of quarterbacks get signed when we get to, you know,

June, July, whatever. But they're not the sought-after free agent quarterbacks. And this year, I think, it certainly feels like a guy like Mitchell Trubisky, whether you agree with it or not, there may be multiple teams looking for Mitch Trubisky, interested in Mitch Trubisky, and so I really think that Washington's going to have

their free agent answer here. I think we already have the trade answer, and it's no. I think the free agent answer is going to come in the next few weeks. It's going to come at the beginning of free agency with the league calendar two weeks away from that. And then we'll know whether or not it's all about the draft because it may be just, okay, now we can focus on the draft to add to what they've already signed. Or they haven't gotten anybody. Now they've got to draft somebody. The other thing he said there at the end, too, you know, we have to, I'm paraphrasing here.

But basically, he's said this a few times about, you know, they've got to talk to everybody. They've got to be involved. They have to know what's going on. You remember two years ago when he said, well, we didn't know he was available. It was D'Andre Hopkins who got traded to Arizona by Houston. Like Houston, you know, that was the Bill O'Brien playing GM deal. And he said, and he made the comment, we didn't know that he was available. Well, they don't want to be in position to say,

oh, we didn't know he was available. That's why they're turning over every single leaf. And I give them full credit for doing that. I don't want them to be anything other than, you know, overly consumed with trying to find their answer at this position. Even if it means saying we've got 42 guys on our board, we're calling every single team to see if everybody, you know, who's available? Who knows?

You know, we're not going to blow it this time because for all we know, Patrick Mahomes is available. And we need to call Kansas City to see if Andy Reid's interested in trading Patrick Mahomes. There was one last cut from Ron Rivera. I want you to listen to this. This is the debate that we've all had over the years. Great quarterback, average team, you know, average quarterback, great team.

And then he goes into some detail about some other things. Listen to this comment. Well, see, that's always an argument to me because, you know, you don't necessarily need to have a great quarterback to put yourself a position to win. And so if you can put things in place, put the team you need in position, and you have a guy that can manage and control and handle and make plays at certain times, you give yourself a chance. But you're right, the special one makes it a lot easier.

And that's sort of where I was going with that is, how close do you feel right now? It's a talented roster. You have some nice pieces in place. How close do you feel to being one of those teams playing late into January? See, we feel very good about it. And that's part of why, you know, going through this process, I want to make sure that people understand we're willing to get in these conversations. We're willing to look.

Why? Because we feel good. You know, when you get the year-in rankings and you see, got the number six ranked offensive line. We have a thousand yard receiver, a thousand yard rusher. We got some pretty doggone exciting pieces on defensive side. We feel pretty good about who we can be. And if you do get that guy that can take you to the next level, man, it makes it easier.

If you don't, then now you're really talking about working, developing who you are as a team, you know, that's really driven together by all 11 guys on the field each time. Two things. Number one, I think he finally got around to saying, you know, we're looking for the big home. home run quarterback. But knowing that they may strike out on the big home run quarterback and more likely than not will, you know, when they sign Mitchell Trebisky in two and a half weeks, and they've got to talk about the great roster that they have and how he's going to upgrade the offense and they've got a guy that can really manage a game and make plays when they need him

to make them, kind of a guy. You know, by the way, you know, it's not going to preclude us from drafting a guy. I really wanted to get to, though, the part about the roster. I just am not totally convinced that this roster is like close at all. You know, the conversation here on March 3rd, 2022 is actually so much different than it was on March 3rd, 2021. A year ago, we thought that the defense was really good. Some of you thought it was 85 bears-esque elite. I thought it was a really good defense, and I thought it had a chance over the next couple of years to be unbelievably good. But after last year, we have to acknowledge it was the biggest disappointment on the team last year.

The defense really, for the most part, sucked for much of the year. And they're big question marks, you know. It seems like they whiffed on a middle linebacker in Jamie Davis. Maybe he'll be an outstanding outside linebacker. It's certainly now in play in terms of a question for everybody about Montez Sweat and Chase Young. I mean, certainly Chase Young's got a mature here in this off-season. season. They've pretty much told you that. He needs to come in and understand that one season does not make a Hall of Fame career. And Montez Sweat, you know, I wouldn't put him in that same class. By the way, they picked up, you know, his fifth year option yesterday. I'm happy about that. But I don't feel like this roster just needs, you know, a really good quarterback and all of a sudden it's a Super Bowl contender. Now, Aaron Rogers would make it a legitimate NFC championship contender. So would Russell Wilson. But if a Matt Stafford equivalent were available this year, I'd feel like they would be a playoff team next year.

But I don't know. The roster discussion is an interesting one right now. I don't think it sucks. Don't get me wrong. I just, I think I'm less bullish about the roster here today than I was a year ago because of the question marks that I have about the defense. Last thing before we get to Steve Sands. You know, Terry McClure, Martin Mayhew said they're going to have conversations with Terry McClurent's agent about an extension. This is the time to do it. He's entering his fourth year. He's an unrestricted free agent if he doesn't sign a long-term deal between now and this time next year.

You've got to get that deal done. And if I were Terry McLaren, I'd wait. I would make sure that I am very comfortable with the quarterback situation in Washington because he could hit the mother load as an unrestricted free agent next year. Now, the team could always franchise him next year, and maybe they would do that, but the team should really be dialed in, really dialed in on a big-time contract extension. The other thing I wanted to mention is that Martin Mayhew made a comment yesterday that we did not talk about, and I'm going to find it real quickly here. It was essentially about some of their existing free agents, J.D. McKissick, Bobby McCain, and I think Cam Sims was part of the comment as well. He said, quote, we want to get a sense for where they are contractually. We want to explain to them that we aren't ready to make an offer right now,

but we do want them back and they have the opportunity to go out when the negotiation period begins. In a week or so, they'll have the opportunity to go out and talk to other teams, but we want them to keep us in mind, but we want them to keep us in mind with where they're at contractually and what kind of offers they're looking at. They're turning them loose into free agency. So those guys can hopefully find out that they're not worth whatever Washington. to their agents about, and they'll come back and sign with Washington. I don't know.

Sounds risky to me. I think they love J.D. McKissick. I think they really love Bobby McCain. I think they like Cam Sims. But as far as McKissick goes, they missed McKissick last year. They really did. I'm not saying they would have made the playoffs with McKissick and with no COVID situation. I don't think that that's true, but they really missed McKissick a lot.

And they really, really like Bobby McCain. These are two names that keep popping up every single time. and you talk to anybody either on the air or off it. Why are they going to just let him go out and test the market? J.D. McKissick, there's going to be a market for him. I don't know. Do you really need to know what your quarterback situation is before you resign J.D. McKissick?

These are guys entering their prime, played really well. I mean, maybe McKissick's injury situation is something that we're not considering here. But I don't know. Sounds kind of risky to me. Steve Sands. Next, we'll get his thoughts on the football team. his thoughts on Rick Petino in Maryland and a lot more, including, I think, an explanation about the Phil Mickelson situation,

which is an interesting one that we have not yet talked about. Right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple and Spotify, in particular, rate us and review us. Thanks. Our guest for this segment of the show is my friend Steve Sands from NBC and the Golf Channel. and Steve is on his way to a final four of high school basketball for his youngest son Eric's team.

And this truly is the first day of Bay Hill, the Arnold Palmer, that you've missed in how long? 22 years. The first time I haven't worked around at Bay Hill in 22 years. Well, are you scheduled for the rest of the weekend, or is it just today? Just today. I mean, it depends. I mean, if Eric's team, win. I may or may not be at the game on Saturday, which is the championship game. But I don't think they're going to win today. If there was a line in Vegas, if there would be, Calvary Christian would be minus 11 right now. Oh, boy. Well, I mean, minus 11 is not that bad. All right. No, no, no. It could happen. I had a talk with Eric last night about Villanova, Georgetown.

about how the skins won a Super Bowl when they were an underdog. You know, there's all kinds of ways to win. You can be a dog and still come up big, and let's make these guys think about it a little bit, Kevin. And who knows, in the second half, they might squeeze a little bit and give us a chance. Do you know which Super Bowl, Washington won when they were an underdog? I believe they were an underdog in the Doug Williams-Denver game in San Diego. That's true.

And I'm looking it up right now. I know they were an underdog in that game, and I'm going to guess they were a three-point underdog. They were a three-and-a-half-point underdog in the game. I just pulled it up off pro football reference. Now, the Dolphins Super Bowl 17 that they won, they were, no, they were an underdog in that Super Bowl. Miami was a three-point favorite with David Woodley at quarterback. I didn't know that. I actually didn't remember it that way.

Somebody told me Which Super Bowl was that? Super Bowl 17. Okay, because that was the one with David Woodley. The first time we played Miami, my older brother told it. It just can't be true. The undefeated season team for the Dolphins, were we favored in that Super Bowl? I think your brother is right about that.

I'm going to look that one up too. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you what. How the world should have undefeated team? How? Okay. On pro football reference, Miami was a one-point favorite in the game. But remember, so this would be my answer to you as to why Washington was close to being favored.

They were only a one-point underdog to a team that at that point was 16 and 0, the 72 dolphins. The 72 dolphins, by the way, let me just emphasize that. They were not the 73 dolphins, even though they won the Super Bowl in 1973. The reason I think is even then, even though the Jets had won and the Chiefs had won Super Bowls, the NFC or the former NFL teams, I think there was still a stigma, you know, on the AFL, the former AFL teams. That would be part of what I could be wrong. The year before Dallas destroyed Miami in the Super Bowl. the year before that.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. I think there probably was a little bit of a stigma way back then. You're talking about the early 70s, this thing was just getting cranked up. I agree with you. I think that's probably why.

But you imagine what was the number of the Patriots the next time there was an undefeited fee? The Patriots and the Giants, what was the line of that case? I want to say it was... No way it was less than a field goal. I want to say it was 12 and a half. Hold on. I'm going to look that up because I have all this right...

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It just gives you a little bit of an idea of how time moves along. The next time a team went to the Super Bowl undefeated, they were a double-digit favorite. I'm just curious what it was. It was the, oh, my God. Well, that's a pretty good memory from your boy here. 12.5 was exactly the number.

I think the biggest favorite, Super Bowl favorite of all time were the Colts in Super Bowl 3. I think they were a 19-point favorite. And then I think the 49ers, hold on the Colts, 18-point favorite. according to pro football reference. And I think the second biggest favorite was the 49ers in their Super Bowl against the Chargers. Nope, that was the biggest. They were a 19-point favorite over the Chargers in that Super Bowl. That was the Stan Humphreys, Bobby Ross.

Chargers. Just think about that. Think about that, Kevin. You and I have gone to the window plenty of times on our career. Just think about that. When you see a regular season game of, say, like a really, really good Chiefs or Patriots team the last seven or eight years versus a Jacksonville kind of thing, and you see that there's an 18, 19 point number in a regular season game, that was a Super Bowl. Super Bowl. A 19 point spread in a Super Bowl.

That's insane. Insane. Yeah. Well, I mean, keep in mind, when you go. go back that far. Now, not Chargers 49ers. But when there wasn't a salary cap and the league wasn't designed for parity, there was significant difference between the best teams and the worst teams. Now, look, we're talking about Super Bowl, so it was the two best teams. But you would see back in the 70s, as an example, you would see NFL lines at three touchdowns during the

regular season. You know, college kind of lines, not 30-point lines or 40-point lines. lines, but you would see regularly, you know, 17, 18, 20, 21 point favorites. You know, the year the Patriots went undefeated, I think that was the year that they were favored by at one point, I think they were a 26 point favorite in a game that year, and it was the biggest that we've seen during kind of the modern era of football. Those 2007 Patriots, I want to see, you know, they're going to be. you know, they beat the Redskins that year, 52 to 7. I want to just see a...

I think they played a bad team, and they were 27-point favorites. Let's see if this was the team. They played the Jets late in the year, 21. They were 21 over the Jets. I could sit here and do this forever. I'm not going to bore everybody. But that year in 2007,

the Patriots, remember not only were they winning, they seemingly were trying to run up the score on everybody. you know, Belichick was. And they ended up being massive favorites by I mean, they were basically 17 plus point favorites in almost every game that year. It was crazy.

It's incredible. I mean, and I wonder how many times they cover. Yeah, I'd have to go. I'd have to take my time on that way. I'll bet you it was quite a bit. They were so good. And in the playoffs,

They were a 14-point favorite over Jacksonville. They were in the Chargers game. That was the Philip Rivers playing on a torn ACL. They were 14-point favorites. And in the Super Bowl, as I mentioned, they were 12-and-a-half-point favorites. Anyway, and by the way, in that postseason, they didn't cover much. They didn't cover against the Giants. They didn't cover against the Chargers.

And, well, I just exited out. I forget if they covered against Jacksonville or not. Who cares? Okay, so I've already talked about the tweet from Rick Petino earlier. You saw it. You, so everybody knows, Steve is, you know, I think most people know this. He's a local, you know, he grew up in Montgomery County, and he's been a longtime television star on NBC and the Golf Channel.

And, but Steve's biggest interest whenever we have them on to talk golf, which we're not doing today, we'll do a little bit of it, is to talk about, you know, the football team, the skins, the wizards, the caps, the Nats, and Maryland basketball. So Petino tweeted out this morning, the University of Maryland is one of the premier institutions of higher learning. Its basketball program can be among the nation's best. I hope they find the next great Gary Williams. I love coaching at Iona, and I'm totally committed to my players. It will not be me.

This was a response yesterday to the junkies reporting that Maryland, Boosters, some of whom Steve and I know, wanted Petino, that he was number one. So A, did you want Petino? B, how disappointed are you if you did? Well, you and I have talked about this on and off the air. Absolutely. I would love to have Rick Petino. I think he would ratchet up so much energy in the program for the school and the area.

the building will be rocking. It'll be sold out. I think Petino would be the greatest fit of them all, especially to get the program back on its feet where we all think it belongs, and we are a hope it gets to. Having said that, I've been told that Petino is not going to be taken the Maryland job,

and I don't think this is going to be a negotiating ploy by the tweet that he sent out, but I do think that he would be the absolute number one choice if I were the guy and he was willing to take the job. Yeah, so what did you just say? Did you just say you know, because you didn't hear the open to the show. I essentially said what I said yesterday. He'd be my number one choice. You and I agree on that.

I know that there are big-time Maryland boosters where Rick Petino, would be the number one choice and that they would be all in in terms of whatever it took. But it's been my feeling, and even more so after several conversations yesterday, that he's kind of a non-starter for the president of the university, Daryl Pines, and maybe the Board of Regents. So that was part of the problem. Are you saying that Rick Petino isn't going to be the Maryland coach because Rick Petino doesn't want to be the Maryland coach,

or because Maryland's, you know, true and, you know, final decision makers, the school president, board of regents, just weren't going to go down that path? Maybe a little bit of both, but I think it's more of a non-starter for Maryland to go that route. Look, at the end of the day, you and I have thought about this forever. You know, you got Bruce Pearl doing his thing at Auburn.

Who knows how he's getting it done? The guy at LSU is still coaching. There are a lot of things going on in college basketball. I just don't think Maryland and Maryland's leadership right now from what I've been told and what I understand is willing to even take that step towards Petito. Whether there's interest coming back from Petino, that's another thing. But I don't think Maryland is ready to take that. There's just too much baggage there with Patino.

Okay. So who do you want? because let's cross him off the list. By the way, I think when he says in his final five words of the text, it will not be me, that isn't like a negotiating ploy or let's not pay attention. That's actually, that's very definitive sounding. You know, if he actually had any interest level and he thought it was a possibility, it would be one of these things where he'd say,

I love coaching at Iona, I'm totally committed to my players, we're having a great season, and this is home for me. or something like that, you know. But when he says, it will not be me, it's, to me, that says it's over. It's not going to be him. So let's cross him off the list. Let's hope it changes, but let's cross them off the list for now. So who do you want?

Who do you think they'll get? I think there are a few people. I think Kevin Willard at St.nall. I think Cooley at Providence. You know, I think that, you know, I know Enfeld at USC who's got, USC, by the way, in the top 20 and solidly in the top 25. And he plays a great brand of basketball. Did it at FGSU, you know, Florida Gulf Coast down here in Florida and brought it out there to the West Coast.

All three of those guys are in the mix. You know, look, you can make a case for all three of them. I happen to think Cooley is a great coach who would be even better at Maryland than he is at Providence, and he's done a really good job at Providence. I think Willard would be a good fit. He's a little square. I think the one thing that I've learned the most about being around the people we know, Kevin, who are very fortunate to know, is that Maryland, unlike the other programs in that top 25, top 30,

you know, top 40 type of thing. Maryland, you know, with the skins and the gnat and the Orioles and the Raven and the cats and the Wizards, You know, they're fighting against, you know, some serious headwinds when it comes to getting attention to the program. So when you have a personality like lefty, a personality like Gary, and the ability to coach like those two obviously and recruit, to me, the personality matters. So not that Kevin Willard is such a square guy that he wouldn't fit well here, runs a terrific program. It just seems like he's not an attention grabber enough for this particular job. and I'd like to see a larger personality.

That's why I think Patina would be just so perfect. But if you cross them off the list, I would personally go with, you know, the Cooley-Enfeld before I went with Willard. But that doesn't mean Willard isn't as good at coaches those two. I just think their personalities are a little bit larger. Yeah, I think that, I think those names have been mentioned. I'm, you know, Cooley, I would love.

I think Cooley is the best of the coaches of the three. I think he's an outstanding coach. I think they have to get a good coach because they're in a league where there are so many good coaches, and you're going to get exposed in this league, you know, if you're not a great coach. You're going to be fighting, you know, for, you know, avoiding the, the, you have no shot of being a double-by team year and in year out in the Big Ten tournament or a tournament team. If you don't have a good coach in that league, you've got to have a good coach. And they had a good coach, but we know what the issues were there. Secondly, it would be nice if the good coach also were a personality, which is why Patino was the home run, regardless of the baggage.

Last thing on this. I just ultimately, if we find out, you know, whether it's publicly sort of discussed and reported or kind of what our hunch is to a certain degree, that they were kind of afraid of the baggage, they were afraid of the PR backlash. I'll be upset about that because I think that is so small-minded right now. And I just think, however, they've built up in their mind, a negative PR reaction to somebody who was at a place where they were buying hookers for recruits, I just think that that is a matter of minutes and it's over. And then it's about whether or not you're selling tickets filling up the building and winning games. I'll be upset if that's what this was all about.

I totally agree. Look, it's such a tricky and slippery slope. But not that if everybody is being filthy, why aren't we being filthy? But it is a little bit of that scenario. Like, wait a second. Who are we to say that Petino should or should not be coaching at Iona, Louisville, or Maryland? Right. You know, it's not for us.

If we don't want to make that decision, then fine. I get it. But, man, I think that they ought to go after Petino and go after him hard. I just think that, you know, maybe he learned his lesson, you know. And by the way, the one thing about Pershing, you know, who we're both friends with, he was saddled with two things. One is he followed Gary Williams, all right? Try being Ron Zuck and following Spurrier.

He followed the guy whose name is on the floor, and he didn't win enough in March. So now everybody in Maryland think that we should be having this coach, that coach. I don't think we have the kind of program where Maryland should be going to a small or mid-major and hiring that coach. I think they ought to be hiring coaches with horsepower right from the jump. In fact, I think so highly a mark view and the way he runs his program and his coaching staff and the style of play, his assistant went down to Arizona and instantly brought Arizona back to where Arizona feels like it belongs. I would go to Few and say, hey, who should we hire? Do you have anybody on your staff?

Do you have anybody you coached against? Who do you think we ought to hire? I think Mark Few is the example. It's way out west. It's Gonzaga. It's a totally different scenario. But, golly, I love watching them play. And now Arizona's playing the way they play.

And to me, that's what Maryland should be doing. get up and down the floor, get a Trinity Center rocking, get the area all ginned up about going to a Maryland game and playing big games. They need a personality. They need a coach who's more than X's and O's. As great as cool he is, he is, is an outstanding coach. You're right, man. A big tent is a coach's league. You've got to have a solid coach who's got a big personality,

especially in college park when you're fighting against the pro teams in Baltimore and the NPR. see. All right. Let's switch subjects. Before we get to the quarterback discussion, I haven't talked to you. I mean, we've texted back and forth, so I have a general idea of what your opinion is, but I want everybody to hear it. How did you feel on 2222, or, you know, a couple of days before when we found out what the new name was, and then we got to see what the new uniforms looked like and all of the new branding. As a longtime, lifelong fan of the team, what was your reality? action? Same as yours. Just very, I almost felt like there was a relief from my shoulders to not love them as much as I always have. If that makes it, he said, it was such a strange feeling. Look, I don't love the name. I would have been really good with Warriors, and I don't know how that works with trademarking and Golden State and all that kind of stuff. But to me, that would have been the best fit. It would have fit the W on the helmet. I actually liked the helmet. I like the burgundy uniforms.

I think the white uniforms are stupid. They're red and not burgundy. There's no gold on there. Unlike Jim Zorn, the people like me and you grew up in that town who are our age, we actually know the colors of the team. I don't know why Jason Wright and the team decided to pick those uniforms. They don't fit the color scheme of the team, which is ridiculous. The rollout was bad.

The logo. you keep talking about the insignia, what do you call that thing, the logo, the crown, the crest, whatever that thing is called. You know, that thing is, how do you mess that up? I mean, they're the 85 bears, for God's sakes. They're not the 86 bears. It's ridiculous.

I mean, shut up with that crest. Well, they fixed it. They listened to all of us. Oh, yeah, but how do you screw that up? Well, because they screw everything up like that. How is that? How can that go screwed up? Because they don't have anybody in the building.

I tell you this all the time. They don't have anybody in the building. building like you and me. They need people like you and me in the building to say, hey, will you give this a quick look-see? And we'd say, oh, yeah, it kind of looks good, but you got the years wrong. What do you mean? And then we'd explain it, and then they would never... Put it on the left. Put it another thing on the list, Kevin, of them just being stupid. I mean, come on, man, get it right. So, I don't know. You know, I'll grow with it. I'm still going to root for the team. I love them. You know me. I'm sick. I've got a...

disease of loving this team. But the name, the name isn't that great. It doesn't, it does zero for me, literally zero. All right. Quarterback, which is obviously the number one conversation, what are your thoughts about it? Where is it going to land? What's the result going to be? I think they're going to draft Pickett or Willis. I don't think there's any chance that Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson will be heading to Washington to play. There's just no way that they would go from a situation where they are either A in Seattle, which is a good franchise and a good coach of Pete Carroll, and with Green Bay,

I mean, Air Rogers isn't leaving Green Bay to go to Washington. He's leaving Green Bay to go to Denver, to go to Pittsburgh, to go to places like San Francisco maybe. He's not coming to Washington to play for this franchise, which is a shame because I happen to really, really like Ron Rivera. I think he's a really good coach. You put the pieces around him, and I think that we can win. I just don't think Aaron or Russell at this stage of their career is about to, you know, up and move and play for the skins.

I think I think they're going to draft, you know, one of those young kids. And I think they might try to go out and get like a Fitzpatrick kind of player that maybe mentor, maybe have them sit for a little bit. But if I were them, I would, you know, take a quarterback, put them out there and let them play and see what happens. Yeah, I think, you know, I think basically, especially with some of the things that Ron Rivera said the last couple of days, Martin Mayhew, I think right now they're in kind of that plan B or plan C mode where it's going to be a Trubisky or a Marriotto along with a Willis or a picket in the draft. Will you explain for everybody that hasn't been paying attention to it the controversy surrounding Phil Mickelson over the last couple of weeks? Yeah, I mean, in a nutshell, Mickelson has really, really put his foot in his mouth. He's really stepped in it. So there's a rival league going on from a company called LivGolf, which is fully backed financially by the Saudis.

And they're trying to, whatever they're trying to do in Saudi Arabia, they are trying to make golf part of the landscape there, as far as tourism and dollars coming in that are outside of the oil industry, which, you know, seems like the world is being less dependent on every single year. I think the Saudis recognize that, so they want to dive in the golf. So they're offering a whole bunch of money to a lot of great players. Phil was one of them. And instead of using the leverage of having that league up the Annie for PGA tour players and you doing it quietly or through his agent or subtly, for that matter,

Phil just took a flamethrower to the PG&A. tour calling them greedy and calling them outdated and saying how their finances are bad and how they've been taking advantage of the players all these years. You can make a strong case that some of that has been going on. But the way Phil went about his business, after being on the PJA tour for 30 years, second-greatest player of his generation, one of the top 10 or 12 players in the history of the board, Kevin, he just decided to take a flamethrower to the league, which is the PGA tour, and just destroyed them.

But at the same time, he then did this. same exact thing to the Saudis, but said he'd be willing to play in spite of their dealings with Khashoggi, and in spite of their dealings with, you know, these are Phil's words about how they treat certain segments of the population. And he's really, really, really, really put himself in a bad spot. He then talked to an author who's writing a book about him. His name is Alan Shipnuck, and was talking to Alan on the record. Allen disclosed those comments, which were on the record, and Phil got himself in more trouble. So his biggest sponsors are Workday, Callaway, Amex, KPNG, and Amstil Light, which is owned by Heineken.

All five of them have decided to part ways with Phil, and now he's left where he has pretty much nowhere to play, and pretty much no sponsorship money coming in. and he's in a really, really bad spot right now. It's going to be a long road for him to come back from this. His comments really offended a lot of people on a lot of different fronts, and Phil really put himself behind the April. When you say he's got nowhere to play, what do you mean? Well, right now, he's not suspended from the PGA tour,

but he said he's going away, and he wants to just take some time with his wife, Amy and his family, he just kind of, you know, recalibrate, if you will. So he really doesn't. He's not going to play in the Saudi League, I don't think, because the Saudi League really isn't happening right now because of one of the reasons is because of what's still said. He's not playing on the PGA tour right now because he decided to take some time away.

Who knows as a three-time Masters champion, Kevin, in a few weeks, when we all go to Augusta, he might not be invited to play at Augusta because of what he said. and what he's done. So what the way to see, and by the way, 51 years of age is an icon in the sport, and he's a reigning major champion. He won the PGA Championship last year in May. So he's going to be the defending champion in two months

at Southern Hills and Tulsa at the PGA championship became the oldest major winner in the history of the sport was the best story by far of any story last year in golf. And one of the top five stories in all of sports, And he's basically ruined all that because he put his foot in his mouth. So I don't know if he's going to be defending at Southern Hills in May. I'm not even sure he's going to be playing at Augusta next month. That'll be a big telltale whether or not he puts the peg in the ground of Augusta.

I don't think Augusta, Kevin, wants the attention being taken away from the Masters itself by having someone sitting up there at the podium at Augusta as a three-time winner of the Masters, as a beloved figure in Augusta and the world of golf sitting there talking about the Saudi League and all the things that he said that were so dumb as opposed to talking about the actual tournament itself. So he might not play next month at Augusta either, which would be another massive story as well. What about this guy, Alan Shipnuck, the author, the biographer, because there was this from yesterday, him saying, I've got some incredibly damaging information about.

Phil Mickelson, but that it's not going to go into his new book. I mean, that's, I mean, everybody's got their own perspective, but to me, that is major piling on by the author. First of all, if you've got incredibly damaging information, we'll tell us what it is. If not, keep your mouth shut. What do you think? Yeah, you know, the journalistic part of it, Kevin, is fascinating. You know, he's writing an unauthorized book about Phil Mickelson.

unauthorized sounds bad, but people write unauthorized books all the time about other figures. So it's perfectly fine, and Alan is an excellent writer. Alan, you know, has rubbed people the wrong way sometimes in the sport with how he goes about his business, but he's an excellent writer, and he has the eyes and ears of a lot of people in golf. Mickelson called him out of the blue to talk to him about certain things. So when he did that, that was on the record. Should Alan have disclosed those quotes? You know, that's up to Alan, but, you know,

journalism 101 will tell you that he was on the record and he has an unauthorized book coming out and his job is to write books, write columns, and sell books and, you know, his outlet, whatever he is writing for that particular week. And in this case, a book. So disclosing on the record comments, Kevin, you know, that's fine. Phil should know better.

Phil's not a rookie. You know, he knows that at 51 years of age, what's on and off the record. He certainly knows Alan and every other writer who's around as far as sports writing and golf writers. So I didn't have a problem with Alan disclosing those quotes. I didn't find it to be Bush League at all. I feel bad for Phil that all of this is coming out and being disclosed

and he's in a really tough spot. But, you know, journalism will tell you this. There was nothing incorrect there. I agree with that. I'm talking about his comment, though, last night specifically coming out and saying, I've got some incredibly damaging information about Phil Mickelson, but it's not going to go into his new book. But it's not going to go into my new book.

Yeah, that would fall under the, yeah, I'm sorry. I misunderstood you. That would fall, Kevin, under the category of, you know, sometimes Alan rubs people the wrong way. You know, there's nothing wrong with saying that, I guess. I wouldn't. You wouldn't. But Alan chose to, and he chose to on purpose.

He's in the business of selling books, and he wants to sell his book. Yeah, but if he's going to sell his, if he's got the incredibly damaging information in the book, he should say, I've got some incredibly damaging information in the book. You've got to buy the book to read it rather than saying it's not going to go into his new book. It's kind of like a piling on tease. I don't, I don't, I don't, I think it's gutless in many ways. I'm curious though, because the, the, I mean, there have been so many stories, right? And obviously, you're close with all of these guys.

And I'm not asking you to obviously reveal any of these stories because you wouldn't. And I wouldn't put you on the spot like that. But when it comes to Phil, there have been these legendary stories about Phil and gambling and, you know, golf club manufacturing relationships and all of this stuff. Do you think that the damaging information, incredibly damaging information, is in that kind of category of the stories we've heard. A lot of people have heard about Mickelson in the past, or not? Do you not just – I don't want to put you on the spot.

You'd say whatever you want to say about it. And if you don't want to say anything, just say I don't want to say anything, which is fine. No, no, no, no. I understand. I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, we'll go back to the first thing. We talked about, you know, Shepnuck saying, maybe I misunderstood,

but I thought Shepnuck said that there are going to be a couple of things in the book that are going to be really salacious, as opposed to those salacious details not being in the book. I thought that I read that. Well, that may be true, too, but yesterday was Alan Shepnuck has some incredibly damaging information about Phil Mickleson, he reveals. He's in possession of, here. the quote, in possession of some incredibly damaging information about Phil

Mickelson, but it's not going into the book. Yeah, I've heard that too, but here's the deal with Phil. Phil, you know, Phil has led a fascinating life. And, I mean, to say the least, and he's dealt with some incredibly fascinating people, people who you and I think, you know, might be the coolest cats in the world. others might not agree. And Phil, I read the quote yesterday about Alan and the quote you just read. You know, look, there have been rumors about Phil for years.

I have heard so many things about Phil. I'm not sure what to believe. The only time I ever believe stories like that, whether they're on or off the record, is if they're not only sourced, but probably double source. And if it's a single source, it better be someone very, very, very. strong. That's probably what Allen is talking about. The same things that I've heard

over the years, you just can't confirm. I'm not a news person. I just call golf, but if you're going to confirm them, that's fine. But some of them, you just can't confirm just because they're just such wild rumors. However, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire. And I think that some of the details

in the book that's coming out from Alan, you know, there's also a guy named Billy Walters, Yeah, of course. One of the biggest sports gamblers in America. In the world. In the world. In the world.

In the world. And Billy is also a little bit scorned by Phil. And Billy is writing a book as well that supposedly is going to have some stuff in there that is not going to be favorable for Phil in his image. So look, I don't know what's right or wrong. I don't know what's true or not true. I have heard so many things over the last 25 years about Mickelson. You know, sure, I believe some of them.

But until they're, you know, they come out in public and they're actually sourced or confirmed. To me, all that stuff is just a rumor. Yeah. If for those of you that listen to us talk a lot of gambling on this show and on the radio show, too. And when I refer to sharps and where the sharp money is, Bill, Willie Walters for many, many, many years was not only A-sharp, he was the sharp, until he kind of came out of hiding, as did much of his syndicate and ended up with some insider trading stuff, which landed him in big trouble, including prison. There's a great 60 minutes piece on Walters from, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago now, I forget when it was. but one of the fascinating people who has certainly been connected with Phil over the years.

And Phil's gambling stories, I think, is, you know, it would be probably three chapters of the book by itself. All right. Yeah, his gambling stories are epic. I've been around some of those, actually, in person. And, Billy, look, I've been around Billy a bunch of times, too, in person. And I was going to say if you didn't mention it, for those who listen to you, show, and I listen to it every day, Kevin. I think it's fabulous. Gambling is obviously a big part of the show, or at least it's a part of the show. And if you happen to enjoy gambling, go YouTube, Billy Walter's

60 Minutes and watch that piece. It's one of the greatest pieces in the history of the single greatest news show in the history of American television. And one of the greatest lines I've ever heard in my life about gambling or anything else, anywhere, any time. is when he was asked in 60 minutes, you know, in the gambling business, which is set up for the public to fail, how is it that you have been so successful? And with a straight face, Billy looked and said, see what people don't understand is I'm not in the gambling business. I'm in the information.

What a line. I mean, if you have, if you wager the way we wager, Kevin, what a line that is. I mean, that is an all-time great life. Well, let me, as long as we're talking about Billy Walters, I don't know Billy Walters. It sounds like you've been around Billy Walters. I know the legend of Billy Walters. And I can just tell you that many of my, as I've referred to them over the years, many of my offshore contacts over the years, they certainly were very familiar with Billy Walters. And way back in the day, and I'm talking about, you know, the 90s.

you know, Scott used to refer to it as the bat phone, because every once in a while I would get a call from what we would refer to, Van Pelt and I would refer to the bat phone. And it would usually be, you know, about three minutes before the kickoff of a sunbelt game on Saturday. You know, it would be like the bat phone would ring from offshore and it would just say, U.L. Monroe. That would be it. Or it would say South Alabama now. And so I can only tell you that it didn't always win when that certain person would give us that call about two minutes before kickoff, but it probably won like 80% of the time. And, you know, the two of us, I think we've talked

about this on the podcast before. But literally, the bat phone dried up, I don't know, around 2005, 2006, in part because some of the real sharps that some of the offshore people understood would come in with massive size at the very last minute on a team. And especially when it was in one of these lesser conferences, that was, you know, that was money. Like it's, you know, it was like, hey, I would pick up the phone. North Texas, go. and because basically the line was about to move about seven points in the wrong direction. And the first score you would see would be like North Texas 21, you know, rice, nothing or something like that.

And it didn't work all the time. There were a couple of them where, you know, we'd be like, oh, I wish the bat phone didn't ring today because that wasn't right. But it was right a lot of the time. And yes, the 60 Minutes piece on Billy Walters is phenomenal. And, oh, by the way, Steve will give you the same recommendation I've given you over the years. Gambling is not for most of you in information business. It's a gambling business, which means you're definitely going to lose. It's just a matter of whether or not you get carried away and you're losing.

Kevin, there's the reason, listen, there is there, as I tell my kids all the time, fellas, there's a reason they have big, tall, shiny buildings of gold windows in the Nevada sand. They don't build those because we win, all right? Are your boys? Are your boys, you've got three boys, I've got three boys, I've got three boys. They're roughly kind of in the same age group. Are they into sports betting? Because two of my three boys are, and all.

of their friends are. So the 21-year-old in Maryland definitely is. That sound familiar to you, Kevin? Yeah. So our middle one, Scott, would be like your oldest son. I could talk to Scott about every single sporting event in the world and he'll look at me like I've got 12 eyeballs. Right. I get out of your dad.

I don't care. Our youngest one's 17, his favorite thing in the whole world. He does not gamble. But his favorite thing in the whole world when watching a game is hearing sportscasters and people make gambling references when he's watching it. He just thinks it's hilarious when they do that. Like he'll say, oh, Dad, this game's overwhelming. He'll come out of the blue and say, you know, it's 31, 27 at the half. It'll be like, Dad, this game's overwhelming.

It'll make me laugh so large. Same thing if a game's like, you know, like in the Super Bowl, he looked at me at halftime. as a dad. This game's underwhelming. I said, yes, it is. But he's not quite into gambling yet. Brian, our oldest one, he has certainly found that bug as a massive sports fan.

I'm sure Eric will, too, when he gets to college. But Scott, thankfully, Scott, thankfully, not. You there? I lost you. Yep. No, you're good. I'm right here. Hold on. I lost you. You said, Scott, thankfully, and then you disappeared.

Yeah, Scott, thankfully, is not. Brian's found the bug. He's a massive sports fan. Eric's a massive sports fan. I'm assuming he'll gamble. When he gets to college, you're like we all did. Scott is a freshman in Indiana. Not a huge sports fan. He is not into sports gambling. So last thing on gambling, and then the last question will be about Tiger, of course. I have, and I've mentioned this before, I think Tommy and I had this conversation a few weeks ago.

But Scott and I have had this conversation. A really good friend of mine, Mike and I have had this conversation. all my closest sort of gambling friends, you know, those that, you know, hey, Tim Murray and I have had this conversation. Like Tim, who I love dearly, Tim, you know, has already texted me today. Here's the text, from Vegas, by the way, where Tim lives now and does the show on Brent Musburger's Network Veezen. He's just, here it is, it's real quick. Kansas, which means he loves Kansas tonight.

They lost to TCU by 10 on Tuesday night, and I guess they're playing again tonight, and Kansas is an 11 and a half. point favorite. Well, of course, Kansas. But anyway, I'm mentioning... By the way, I get those texts also from Tim. I love it. Yeah, I know you do. So, you know, and you and I text back and forth.

So one of the things that I've mentioned before, and I'm wondering if you've reached this point as well, I actually am sick of gambling. I don't love it as much. I think basically I'm coming to a point where I, it, It's just, it's gotten boring for me. It's also, by the way, too much time wasted. And here's my theory as to why I've gotten to this point. The legalization of sports betting has brought in every, you know, every dude that's never

bet before in their life. And now they've got all the answers. I mean, it's unbelievable. The dudes that were never, you never had access to gambling. Tommy said, you know, gambling when it was illegal was kind of a cool thing. I guess that's part of it. But the legalization of it and having all of these dudes that didn't even know what we were talking about two years ago. And now all of a sudden they're experts.

And I just want to look at them and say, you don't know what you're talking about. And by the way, you're only betting $5 a game. So shut the fuck up anyway. But beyond that, I think it's gotten. to the point where, I don't know, it's not interesting to me in the fact that everybody does it now. It does sort of take some of the, it's not coolness. I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for. It takes some of the mystery out of it or the, you know, doing something that's a little bit

edgy out of it. I'm not into it anymore. I do it. Like last night I was on DePaul, loser. I mean winner, come back winner, unbelievably, but I was on a couple of losers, and I'm just like, you know, I don't feel like doing this anymore. Have you gotten to that point or not? Yeah, it's a little bit like, it's similar. I mean, I still do it and I still enjoy and I still study it as much as I always have.

But to me, it's like going to a blackjack table and sitting there and playing blackjack, and then somebody at the table doesn't play correctly, and you're thinking, what am I doing here? Like, why am I sitting here next to this, why am I sitting here next to this bozo who does not hit 16 on a 9? So, just, you know, you just have to walk away. Sometimes you don't walk away and you just get your brains beaten in. Sometimes you do walk away and you feel a little bit better about yourself. Same thing here. It's a little bit of an amateur hour situation now. Everybody's into it.

Everybody's doing it. All these companies are giving away all this free play. Right. Everybody's doing all these things. Yeah, the mystique and the aura and the, and the, uh, you know, it's like the underground nature of what we used to do is now above ground. So it's not as sexy. It's not as cool.

But I still enjoy it. I mean, I'm not, I don't do, you know, I do football, college and pro, and I do college basketball. I don't know about the NBA. I don't bet majorly baseball. I don't bet hockey. So I take a nice respite after the final four until mid-August. And occasionally I'll do. do a golf matchup or something like that.

You know, President's Cup, Ryder Cup, those are always fun to bet, those matchups. And the match play in a couple of weeks in Austin is a fun one to bet as well. But for the most part, just college football, NFL, and then college basketball, and then I take a rest from gambling. But, yeah, I get a lot of people now who are doing it, and literally when I see that they're putting in $11 to win $10, I'm just like, I, yeah, yeah, what do we do.

I know. It should be. Not that I'm above that. It shouldn't be about. Not the one above that. Understood. Right. Let me just also quickly, you know, mention.

I'm a total hypocrite. I understand because I do all of these ad spots for gambling-related companies on radio and podcast. Well, you know, business is business. I mean, period. But by the way, you said something that just made me think of something. So because, you know, the tournament and football, it's like, you know, in the Catholic Church, like those of us that are not, you know, practicing Catholics in the way we used to be. And I'm not. You know, I was, I grew up, I was an altar boy. I had to go to church every Sunday and the, you know, the Catholic Church was a

big part of my upbringing. But I just feel differently about religion in general and, you know, the Catholic Church in general. Not that, you know, I'm not going to get into it. But the bottom line is people refer to people like me who occasionally go to church as sea and ears. meaning we go to church on Christmas and Easter, and that's basically it. And so I think my gambling is going to take that path where I bet, you know, football season and March Madness, and I think that's going to be it. The problem with that, of course, as you know, is March Madness. I don't know.

I think it's so hard to bet. And the NFL's impossible to bet. And really some of the best opportunities, you know, if you're grinding it out, night in and night out on college basketball, you know, in January and February and before all the tournaments start. But I think that's kind of the way I'm going to proceed. Anyway, this is a conversation that may only be interesting to the two of us. Tiger Woods, when's he coming back? Where is he going to play? I don't know. You know, he's not getting around as well as he wants. Augusta's really hilly.

I cannot imagine that he's capable of walking that golf course five consecutive days, four consecutive days, five with a practice round. I think St. Andrews in July at the Open Championship, short, flat course, easiest course to walk of the major championships. I think perhaps that's a target, but I genuinely don't think we're going to see him until perhaps the PNC Championship, the father-son playing with his son Charlie again until December. I just don't think he's going to go out there and play if he can't compete with the world. best, and right now he can't. Is he ever going to be physically fit enough to get back into a regular schedule? And when I say regular, it's not that he's playing, you know, every other week.

I'm talking about playing the majors and picking, you know, four or five other spots during the course of the year. I don't think he'll ever play a regular schedule again on the PGA tour. And I don't think that he will play, you know, three, four, five events unless he has the ability to compete. He doesn't want to be a ceremonial golf for Kevin. He never will be. He always said he would never be that, and he

doesn't want to be that now. Unless he can get the ball out there as far as these guys, unless he gives himself an opportunity to get a win or to compete for a victory, I just don't see how he's able to compete long term. He's having a hard

time, you know, getting around healthy 100%, let alone compete against the best players on the world that are 20 years younger than him on the longest golf course in the most difficult course conditions you can possibly find in the world. So I just, I don't think you're ever going to see him regularly

on the PGA tour again. I do think he'll come out and play if he's ready by showing himself some scores at home. You know, that's how he came back to last night. Right. He was shooting really low scores in private at home. Well, he's not doing that just yet. So we're just going to have to be patient in wait and see.

All right. Who do you have at Bay Hill? What's that? Who do you have this weekend? I have Matthew Fitzpatrick. Okay. How about you? I took Max Homa.

But I almost took Rory and he's four under through four whole, through the front nine and tied for first right now. It's day one. Who cares? But I almost took Rory, but I took Max Homa. All right. Yeah, Rory's the best player in the field. He's one year before.

It's a perfect golf course for him. I don't know. I don't know why. There's no reason to save any of these players, especially in these golf pools. I know. It's so true. I have to check. But if you took the best player every week if you had them available, you probably would win the pool.

Yeah. Why don't we do that? It's like I keep saving, I keep saving, like, players for majors. What's the point? As you pointed out, you know, the prize money, at these other places isn't that far off. All right. What's the name of your son's school again?

Lake Highland Prep. All right. I've got Lake Highland Prep plus 11 against Calvary Christian for a nickel. Are you booking it or not? I'll book it. I just hope you got plus 140 on that. Good luck. Good luck.

Enjoy these games and these events. They're so much fun. Take care. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. I appreciate it, Kevin. Take care, but. All right, that was awesome. That was awesome. Appreciate it. All right, bud. I'll talk to you soon. Take care. All right, but be good. Be good.

Steve Sands, everybody. Always fun to catch up with him. That's it for the day back tomorrow.