The Kevin Sheehan Show - Final 4 Recap + Skins' Draft Talk

Episode Date: April 8, 2019

Kevin opens the show with a recap of the Final 4 games and a preview of the National Championship game. JP Finlay/NBC Sports Washington joins the show to talk Redskins draft and Rosen <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I am here. Corbin's here for Aaron this morning. Aaron's got one more day off. He's up at WrestleMania up in New York. He'll be back tomorrow. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, it's 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com. Tell Harley, Aaron, or Eric that I told you to call. That's the best thing to do when you call there. Or just tell anybody. You can tell anybody. You can tell you. anybody that I told you to call, but they'll take good care of you. We're going to get to the final four here in a moment. J.P. Finley, hopefully as well. Caps playoff opponent is Carolina in round one. They begin their defense of their Stanley Cup on Thursday night at Capital One Arena in game one. They were four and oh against the hurricanes in 2018, 2019. This would appear to be a good matchup for the Caps. And if they get by it, it's the Penns or the Islanders who will play each other in a first-round matchup.

And if you get through Carolina easily and the islanders and penguins beat each other up, that would seem to play out well for the caps who would also have the home ice advantage in that series as well. Interestingly, the caps are just the third pick, and it's not even close, actually, to win the Eastern Conference. Tampa Bay, I think I mentioned this maybe a couple of weeks ago, Tampa Bay is an even-money favorite. They are a monster favorite to represent the East in the Stanley Cup finals. The Bruins are next at 4 to 1, and then the Caps at 5 to 1. Tampa's a major favorite to represent the East. I know how good they are in the regular season they had,

but I thought the Caps final three games against Tampa, it certainly proved that the Caps are not a long shot to beat Tampa in a best of 7, I wouldn't think. But Tampa, a heavy favorite to win in the East and represent the East in the Stanley Cup finals. The playoffs get underway Wednesday. I do love the NHL postseason. I think it's a great product, and we will certainly have some people on this week to talk about the caps and the NHL playoffs. Real quickly, before we get to the final four, the Nats won yesterday, 12 to 9. There is a problem, though. Their bullpen is a disaster. By the way, just as an aside, Max Scherzer actually got

his first win of the year in his worst outing of the year. He allowed four runs on eight hits over six in a third, but they produced a ton of offense for him yesterday. Anthony Rendon hit a three-run shot. He's having a great season so far, great start to the season. Anthony Rendon, a three-run homer gave the Nats a 12-to-one lead in the seventh inning, and then the bullpen started. They gave up eight runs over the final three innings. They won the game, 12 to 9. It's a big win to get to 500. But how about Trevor Rosenthal? He hit a batter through two wild pitches, issued a walk in nine appearances. He's faced nine batters, excuse me, so far this year. He is yet to retire one of them. Not one out has Trevor Rosenthal gotten this year.

One more thing before we get to the final four. The Wizards blew a big league. lead, thankfully, and lost to the Knicks last night. They are battling right now with three teams out west for better lottery odds. They've got one more game against the Celtics. They need to lose that game to increase their odds of getting Zion Williamson, regardless of whether or not Nike paid them money. Who cares about that? Zion Williamson would totally or potentially turn this franchise around. Increase your odds of getting Zion by losing to the Celtics. I did not watch any of the game. I had zero interest in the game last night. I can't imagine many did, but if they did, they may have seen Buck's final call, which of course would be tragic, if true.

John Oranda and others I saw a tweet out that Buck finished the game last night saying, quote, hope you have a safe summer, everyone, and hope to see you in the fall. Closed quote, we all hope that that's the case. We want Buck back. We've talked about that before. All right, let's get to the final four. And we'll start with Auburn, Virginia, the first game in the final four on Saturday. And I'll start by going to the end of the game. Yes, it was a foul. Kyle Guy deserved to go to the line for three free throws with 0.6 left.

That's a foul. There's contact, and there's no room for him to come down. I've seen it called all year long, and I've seen it called in this tournament. Go see the Carson Edwards free throw. trip at the end of the Tennessee game in the Sweet 16. If they hadn't called it, there would have been talk about why they didn't call it, not as much as the call being made in the controversy over it. A lot of people say, you just can't make that call. If they hadn't made the call, I think we would have talked about the fact that they didn't make the call, but you would have lived with it and moved

on because they made it, because they didn't swallow their whistle in the final second and a half, that seems to be and create more of an outrage. It was the right call. Absolutely the right call. And yes, it was double dribble, tie Jerome, 1.5 seconds left in the game. That was double dribble. I was in state college this weekend for one of those parent weekends. It just seems like, you know, there's all of these things.

I think I've been to state college now a half dozen times in the last six months, it feels like. but I will tell you that when it happened, I was with a bunch of parents and multiple people will back me up on this. I was screaming that that was double dribble by Ty Jerome. And I was surprised that we were watching in a bar, so we really didn't hear the call, but people were looking at me like I had four eyes. I'm like, that's double dribble.

He was dribbling the ball, it knocked off his leg. It did not hit the defender. The ball stopped. He picked it up. He can't dribble again. it's double dribble, he missed the call. And then you saw, you know, I didn't hear it because we were watching in a bar, but Gene Stereator come on.

And obviously he was talking about that. However, on that play, Auburn fouled Ty Jerome. They had a foul to give. Bryce Brown was trying to foul Ty Jerome. He grabbed his jersey before the double dribble. And that wasn't called. They had to foul to give. He's trying to foul.

They didn't call it. He double dribbles. They don't call that. And then they finally call the foul. Now, the ref may have felt that because he didn't call the initial foul on Bryce Brown, which was a foul, that he didn't want to call the double dribble. You know, it's like that play now that you, before replay, you would get a referee on a play where the ball got knocked out of bounds and the offensive player was fouled on the play. And the ball got knocked out of bounds. and the offensive guy was the last guy to touch him,

but the ref would just give the ball to the offense because he's like, you know what, I didn't call the foul. He got fouled. Ball got knocked off him, but I'm going to give him the ball instead of calling the foul. And what's happened in recent years with replay is it sucks when a referee makes that call. He's like, I'm not going to call the foul. And I think it went off the offensive player, but I'm going to give him the ball because I decided not to call the foul in that spot.

But now replay in the final two minutes can overturn that and really impact a game in a way in which you would have never gotten to that had the ref called the foul. It was similar in that spot. He let the foul, the initial foul go, even though Auburn was trying to foul. They wanted to give the foul in that particular spot, but he didn't call it. And that disrupted Jerome and caused the double dribble. Anyway, I personally think that Auburn can bitch all they want, but UVA should not feel at all like they were handed a win by the referees at the end of the game.

You can say they were fortunate that they're fortunate to be here tonight in the championship game. Of course they are. They needed Ryan Klein to miss a free throw at the end of regulation in the Elite 8 game against Purdue and then needed that miracle tip out, chase down, and the prayer to even get into overtime to avoid being eliminated by Purdue in what was, I still think, was the best game of the tournament. And then last night, they needed Jared Harper to miss that second free throw with seven seconds to go, would have put Auburn up three. Jared Harper had made 18 consecutive free throws in this tournament, and then he missed that one. Would have given Auburn a three-point lead.

And by the way, at that point, Auburn's going to keep fouling more likely than not and make Virginia shoot free throws one-in-one with 1.5 seconds left down by three. So then they need to They needed Ryan Klein to miss a free throw in the Elite 8 game, and Ryan Klein's a very good free throw shooter, and they needed Jared Harper who had made 18 free throws in a row over the last three tournament games and made his first one in that spot the other night, and then he missed that second free throw to give UVA a shot. They are fortunate to be in the final tonight against Texas Tech, but they were not handed the win by the referees against Auburn.

I don't think that that was the case at all. Now, on the game itself, to me the most interesting part of this game was Auburn. Auburn being resilient in a spot that very few teams ever are against Virginia. The UVA went up by 10 with 5 minutes to go in this game. If you've watched UVA over the years, recent years, you know that if you're down 10 with 5 minutes to go, that is a death sentence. It's over. It's the way they do it. They gradually wear you down.

And you get to the second half and they grab the lead and then they gradually pull away and they win by double digits. And that's where this game was headed. And by the way, I gave UVA out minus five and a half as a smell test pick. And I gave Texas Tech out plus two and a half. So one and one over the weekend. I will have a smell test on the game tonight. Actually, I'm not sure if I'm going to have a smell test. I've got to check the updated information here shortly.

But this is what UVA does. I went back and looked at some of their games this year. Two of their final three games before the NCAA tournament were against NC State and the ACC tournament in Syracuse. They were down by two at halftime to NC State and won the game by 20. They were down by two to Syracuse and won by 26. This is what UVA does. They just gradually bludgeoning.

you to death. And when they went up 57 to 47 with five minutes to go, I thought it was over. I thought the smell test was coming through. My personal bet was coming through. Virginia was moving on and they were going to win this game by double digits because that's the way they do it. But Bryce Brown hit some big shots. Virginia really did take the air out of the ball a bit offensively and they ended up with some poor shots at the end of the shot clock offensively. And Auburn came back and not only did they erased that 10-point lead, but they had a chance to take a three-point lead if Jared Harper knocks down that second free throw. The game overall, sort of the macro view of the game, was Virginia slowing down a fast team. We talked about that on Friday, that it's easier to slow down

a fast team in basketball, especially college basketball, because of things like a longer shot clock and zone defense without a defensive three-second rule, et cetera, just easier. in college basketball to slow down a fast team than it is to speed up a slow team, which is one of the reasons I liked Virginia to win the game. They accomplished that. Auburn had 10 fewer field goal attempts against Virginia than they did against Kentucky, 11 less field goal attempts than they had against North Carolina, and that was in a game Saturday in which they only had five turnovers.

So it's not like they got fewer field goal attempts because they were turning the ball over. Kyle Guy really came through in this particular game too. I mean, he really did. After that incredibly poor start to the tournament, he turned it around late in the Purdue game, right in the second half of the Purdue game and down the stretch in the Purdue game. And then last night, he hit the three, the big three,

that kept him in the game at 6157 to cut it to 6160, and then knocked down after the, what you want to call a controversial call, I think it was the right call, he still had to make all three free throws. You know, Carson Edwards, when he got that call, which I thought was the right call at the end of the Tennessee game, people thought it wasn't necessarily a foul. It was. There was some contact. They didn't give them the room to fall. Carson Edwards only hit two of those three. Game went to overtime. Purdue ended up winning it in overtime. But Virginia, Kyle Guy, still needed to make two of the three to keep the game going. although who knows, maybe if he had made one of the three,

they would have gotten a tip out and a prayer at the buzzer like they did in the Elite 8 game. But he knocked down all three of those. He was clutch in this game. And Virginia moves on to the championship game for the first time in school history. And they can become the first ACC team not named Duke or North Carolina

to win a title since Maryland in 2002. Maryland in the 21st century, Only three ACC teams have won championships. Duke, North Carolina, obviously, and Maryland was the other one in 2002. And if you want to go back further, NC State's the only one in modern era basketball to have won a championship in the ACCC. It's Duke, Carolina, Maryland, and NC State won in 1974, and they also won it in 1983. I'm happy for the Virginia people. They have waited their lives for this.

I know a few diehard UVA people, and they have waited their lives to get back to the final four. It's been, you know, 35 years since that happened, and they've never been in the title game, and they've got a chance to win a championship tonight with a very good basketball team, a very good basketball team. We're going to preview that game here in a little bit, but I want to talk about the second game, which was the Texas Tech Michigan State game first. We'll start with the obvious. We talked about this last week. week and during the tournament. Texas Tech was for real. This was a very good basketball team,

well-coached and an incredible defensive team. And by the way, as an aside, you know, the thing that I've mentioned many times in the past about the NCAA tournament, it's a Gary Williams quote, you've got to be able to score to win six games. You cannot be just a great defensive team and win the NCAA tournament. Eventually, you're going to have to score, and over six games, your defense can carry you for three or four but can't carry you for six. Well, we've got, this is the aberration tonight. We've got the two best defensive teams in the draw. I mean, Michigan's close.

Texas Tech, you know, held them to 44. But if you want to think about this matchup tonight, Virginia, in terms of average possessions per game, pace of play, UVA's dead last in the country. There are 355 Division I teams in the country, and UVA is the, the slowest team in the country in terms of pace of play possessions per game. And Texas Tech is 270th out of 355. Points per game, UVA's 197th in the country, Texas Tech 146th in the country. So you are talking about two of the lower scoring teams and two of the slowest-paced teams in the country in this final.

About the game, though, about Texas Tech and what they did to Michigan State, I have watched Michigan State all year long, even against the best defensive teams that they've faced in the Big Ten, and there's several of them, Michigan being probably the best defensive team in the Big Ten this year.

Even against those teams, Michigan State figured out a way to score. They figured out a way to score and transition against some really good defensive teams. But in their offense, they got looks, they got points. Not Saturday night. Not against Texas Tech. They labored offensively all night long. They couldn't get anything easy, except for one stretch when they got behind in the second half and they went inside.

Ward got a couple inside. That was about the only thing that they got easy. They, in the game Saturday night, only had 40. seven shot attempts. They had 70 against Duke. Think about that. Michigan State only had 47 field goal attempts in the game on Saturday night, and they had 70 against Duke. 23 less shot attempts. Do you think that'll impact your ability to score? They got 18 free throw attempts, yes, but just 47 field goal attempts. That is defense, pace of play, defense primarily in Texas Tech's case. Michigan State could not get anything on the perimeter. And when they did, it was contested.

The best chances I mentioned that they had, they were down, I think 45 to 33, I think was a 12-point deficit when they fell behind in the second half. And for about three possessions in a row, they went inside and Ward got a couple right at the rim. I thought that was going to be the strategy the rest of the way. But even that wasn't easy against Texas Tech. Cassius Winston, who's been brilliant all year long was 4 for 16, McQuaid was 4 for 12, Goans was 0 for 4 from behind the arc. Michigan State didn't have a problem with the pace. They saw a lot of that in the Big 10. They had trouble scoring out of their half-court set. They couldn't get anything offensively. And Texas Tech won this game without their supposed best player, Jared Culver, being a major factor

offensively until the very end. He had three points with three minutes to go in the game. He scored seven over the final two and a half minutes, I think it was, but he had three points with three minutes to go in that game. And they had built at one point, a 12 point lead in the second half. They are well coached. They are able to guard every position with almost every player on the floor. They would be hurt tonight without Tarek Owens if he can't go, but they're still good. Like, they can still win the game tonight, even without Owens, who was walking around in a boot yesterday, but apparently may play tonight. Matt Mooney was exceptional in the game on Saturday, not just as a scorer, but as a guy who really controlled the tempo of the game. He and Moretti both, and that's what tonight's game I think will come down to, or the guards personally.

But man, was Texas Tech impressive on Saturday night, taking out Michigan State and beating him down. a stretch. This was just Texas Tech having the ability to guard every position with almost anybody on the floor. And Michigan State, who's well-coached, runs great half-court offense, they love to run, couldn't get anything in transition, and then just could not get anything offensively that was easy. Nothing. Texas Tech was brilliant defensively in the game. Now, tonight's game, to me, is a complete toss-up. Virginia is a one, one and a half point favorite. I think I like Virginia.

I don't feel great about any of the results, either result tonight. I think anything can happen in this game. I sort of like Virginia. I'm going to tell you right now on the smell test thing, we're not going to go through a big to-do over it. I don't have a play. I have a lean. I would lean Virginia minus the one, one and a half, wherever it is.

But I don't have a play. So I finish up the tournament, I think 14 and 10. I think that was the final record. 13 and 10 or 14 and 10. I lost track, but either plus 3 or plus 4 units for the tournament. I'm not going to play the game personally tonight. Again, I'd lean Virginia just because they figure out how to win these games usually, but no result will surprise. Both teams are going to struggle to score. The pace of the game will be comfortably slow, comfortably numb for both, as Pink Floyd once said. It's a fascinating matchup. I think it is. I'm really excited about watching it.

know some will say, you know, a game in which the first team to 55 wins the game or 50 or whatever isn't for me. It is for me. It's fine. I want to watch it. I think it's a very interesting matchup. The total in the game is 118. It's the lowest in 20 years in an NCAA tournament final. That total is telling. What it tells you is that the first to 60 is going to win the game. I think you're going to see a game where both teams clearly are constantly switching defensively, constantly creating a wall defensively. It leads to a game where unless one team blows it at the free throw line. Virginia, by the way, in their win over Auburn was only 6 of 12 from the free throw line.

That hurt them. I think a couple of those in the first half were front ends of one-on-ones. But if one team could completely blow it at the free throw line, I don't see one team blowing it with turnovers. I think both of these teams are going to protect the ball. And both teams defend so well, but I think both teams will protect the ball. The pace of play will be slow. I think it'll come down to this. I think it's going to come down to a guard on one of the two teams who takes over at the end of a shot clock on multiple possessions late in the game and knocks down two huge threes. Two to three huge shots, two of them being

threes. It's, you know, it's Kyle Guy or Ty Jerome or Mooney or Moretti. One of those four guys will end up being the star at the end of tonight's game. Maybe it's Culver, maybe it's Hunter, potentially from the perimeter, but somebody from the perimeter on a deep three that is basically, you know, out of desperation because the defense was so good on the possession, will knock down one or two massive shots at the end, and that'll be the difference at the end of the game. And somebody wins at 60 to 58, which right there, that would give you right on the total at 118,

and would give you, you know, potentially a Virginia minus 1, 1, 1.5 win, if they're the winner. You know what? I'll make the call. Tide Jerome hits a huge three late, gives Virginia a 60 to 58 win. the national championship game. There it is. It's the way I see it. I enjoyed both games on Saturday. I'm looking forward to the game tonight. The ratings, by the way, for the tournament on Saturday were up. I was actually surprised at that with no Duke advancing, with no Zion Williamson advancing. I was actually very surprised by that. They were up. Now, it was on CBS. That's a good point.

It was on CBS. Last year's games were on TBS. I don't know what the final we'll do tonight. I don't really care that much. I can't imagine that Texas Tech Virginia is going to draw the casual sports fan, you know, but this tournament over the last week got good. It wasn't great the first weekend. It got really good with the Sweet 16, the Elite 8, and I thought that they were two fascinating Final Four games, and I don't consider it to be a super controversial ending. I just think the guy was fouled. I know it was a double dribble, but he was fouled before the double dribble. The foul should have been called before the double dribble. Anyway, it's Window Nation's annual spring cleaning sales event.

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He had five bold 2019 draft predictions, and we'll take them one at a time here in a moment. Of course, you can follow J.P. Finley on Twitter at J.P. Finley, NBCS, and listen to JPs' Redskins Talk Podcast. Anywhere you get a podcast, it's a great listen. But I was sitting here before. the show started and read your story that you put out very early this morning. And it's funny because one of the things that I was going to discuss, and I just figured I'd do it with you, is that Kooley and I

were talking about wide receiver on Friday, and he's like, please, no D.K. Metcalfe, he can't stand him. He thinks that he's way overrated. I don't love him either. I don't know how you feel about him. But one of the first things that you mentioned is no wide receiver. So let's start with that. You got five bold draft predictions. The first one is they will not take a wide receiver. 15. Why? Well, a lot of it is kind of because of the D.K. Metcalf speculation that really started going crazy at the Combine. And remember, Metcalf spoke really glowingly about Jay Gruden, about his meeting with the Redskins. But yeah, I'm with you and Cooley. There's not a receiver that's good enough to go 15th. And if the skins are being true to their draft board,

there's a stud available on defense. I think it'll be an edge rusher, but it could be a lineback or could be a corner. I just, of all the wide receivers, there's going to be a run on some of these wideouts, and there are certainly some good players. But I think I talked to one NFL GM that doesn't think that run happens until the mid-20s. And I think that's right. I just, the guys that really tested well in Indy don't have the game film, and the guys that have the game film didn't test all that well in Indy.

How badly, though, do you think Jay Gruden wants desperately, whether it's the first, second or third round, an actual receiver that can give him a chance offensively, which he did not think they had really last year with the group that they had once they lost Richardson. He desperately wanted that, especially because, you know, the junkies report earlier this year that Gruden wasn't involved in the pre-agency stuff. You know, he certainly, there are frustrations, but he's involved, but Richardson was his guy last year.

So he got his guy, and then he got hurt. hurt, and they've got to add another weapon, especially losing James and Crowder, that's something that drove Jay Rudin crazy. He wanted Crowder back as bad as anybody, and maybe Tray Quinn can step in there. I think he can. He's got to prove you can be durable, but they need a weapon. They need an outside weapon, and I think this draft has good possibilities, second, third round at wide receiver guys that can really help you. You know, Ohio State has a bunch of guys. I think you talked about Paris Campbell. I think a guy like Debo Samuel, there are guys that are going to help you. And basically, whenever the run of first round talent goes, will kind of dictate where the next batch

of wideouts go. And I think that might be where the skins are looking. You know, in your answer there, you just made me think about something, because we've had a lot of conversation, all of us, everybody that's involved in talking about the Redskins over the last few months about Jay Gruden's input, free agency trades, drafts, the whole thing. And, you know, in one breath, you said, Richardson was his guy, as if in last year in free agency, he selected Richardson. And then at the same time, you said, but he wanted Crowderback and didn't get Crowder back. And I think that in all of this, there is just, it's more complex. You know, there's not a blanket answer here that Jay isn't.

involved or he is involved. He has been involved at times, and at other times he hasn't been involved. That's really the answer. I mean, you and I both know this. He didn't know about the Alex Smith trade at all, but he did give some input in the process of evaluating some of the quarterbacks last year in free agency and in the draft like he did this year when it came to some of the quarterbacks in free agency and the potential traded quarterback, Case Keenham. At the same time, there have been a number of instances where Jay really hasn't been listened to, and Bruce and Eric and Doug and whomever else, Kyle, have gone,

you know, their own way. I mean, I, I, I, Coley told me this, this was from Cooney, and he said it on the air three, four years ago, but whenever it was, that Jay went in there and begged for Matt Ionitis, said that's my, that, you've got to get Matt Ionitis. He did the same thing for Trey Quinn. He desperately wanted Trey Quinn. That may be the reason, J.P., why they felt,

hey, you wanted Quinn so badly, we can't re-sign Crowder. So make it work with Quinn. The only thing I would add to that, and I agree with everything you're saying, but I kind of think you might agree with me on this. I'm not sure the front office wasn't wrong to override Jay and let Crowder go at the dollars he got. Oh, I don't disagree either. And I think on some level, it's such whatever makes so many mistakes that it's easy to lump them all together. I think that is a sign of functionality that the front office, like, coach, we know you love this guy, we can't pay that price.

I guess. I guess the next thing I was going to say, I don't disagree with what you just said. All right, I'm not going to disagree with what you just said, because there have to be some checks and balances, and there have to be people who are true salary cap, you know, contract structure people. And Jay's not necessarily that guy at all. what I was going to say is that all of them have made more mistakes and all of them have missed more than they've hit, bottom line. And I don't, whether it's personally on the quarterback thing, I'd much rather have Jay doing the evaluation and making the decision as long as it's affordable. I don't necessarily like that, you know, Bruce Allen has, you know, potentially in some cases made borderline unilateral decisions on players when you've got better people in the organization, you know, and more qualified. people in the organization to evaluate said players.

And we know that it's unilateral when it comes to the trade market. That's established. So, you know, the biggest one of my bold predictions is going to come down to that unilateral ability to make trade. All right. Well, let's go to the next one, because your first of five draft bold predictions is no wide receiver at 15. I totally agree with you on that.

Your next bold prediction is what? I know what they all are. I don't know in order. So if you can't just tell me. All right. Your next one is three of the first four picks will be offense. Yeah, I think they know that they have to address tight-end receiver and guard. And in some capacity, they're going to do that.

And additionally, on top of that, you have the need of quarterback. So there's going to be a lot of moving parts. I think they have to get a tight end. If you listen to how Jay Gruden talked about his frustration with the tight-end position and how it limits their offense, how he wants reading. Davis on the field because there's two best pass catchers, but they can't run the ball when those guys are on the field

and Cooley did this on his podcast, which was so good, how he broke down the first and second down play calling, and the amount of a tell that Jeremy Sprinkle became when he was on the field that they were going to run the football, they've got to get somebody in the building

that can be on the field in run and pass situations. I reported last week they had the guy Warring from San Diego State, in for a workout. I think T.J. Hawkinson is kind of the dream at 15 if he lasts that long. I'm not sure he will. But they've got to add a tight end. You've got to add Interior O-Line. They've got Dalton Risenor, the kid from Kansas State, is visiting this week.

So they know it, and we know it, Kevin. And I think what I said in the story about these bold predictions is that a lot of it is just applying conversations with personnel people around the league, with common sense. And you'd like to see those two things, Mary, match up. All right. Your next prediction would lead to basically the three picks after the first pick being all offense, because your last prediction is three of the top four will be offense, but then your next prediction is they're going to draft defense at 15, which means their second rounder and their two third rounders would be offensive players. Talk about defense at 15. I think you are looking at

maybe Brian Burns from Florida State as a real speed-edge guy that Ryan Kerrigan's never really had opposite him. If you're able to add a very legitimate pass rusher at 15, think about that D-line. With Kerrigan and a rookie on the end, Alan Payne, ionitis, Tim Settle, I think, is going to emerge with a much bigger role this year on the inside. You have Ryan Anderson to provide some depth to certainly help you and run situations. with a rookie that's probably not going to be as strong as Anderson, that really starts to become a strength. And a lot of folks on Twitter ask me, you know, do you think the skins would trade back out of 15? I don't think they can. I think because of the depth of really high quality pass rushers available in this draft, you've got to kind of cross your fingers and just

really hope one of those gets to you at 15 and you maybe get a, a, a, Pro Bowl true difference maker there, and that could just really... I think this defense is poised to be pretty darn good. There's some questions, especially a corner, I think. But Landon

Collins should help your run game a lot, and I think if you can add an elite pass rushing option there, you do it. The only other guys I think would make sense is if either one of the Devons gets to 15, the linebackers, you know, Devin White to me, would be

a home run. I don't think he gets there. Or if they fall in love with one of these corners, maybe you take a corner there, but I think you go past rusher, and I think it's the best pick the team can make. I'm glad you mentioned Burns, because if they go pass rusher, which I would love for them to get a pass rusher finally. I want the speed pass rusher. I don't want the, I don't want the, you know, bull physical, you know, pass rushing type. I want somebody that is going to truly threaten the edge with speed, which they just have never had, or they haven't had in a long, long time. Like, there's a guy, Jalen Ferguson from Louisiana Tech, who is super quick, super fast, and long-armed, and he's potentially a second-round guy. You know, this draft

is deep in pass-rushers. Not all of them speed guys. Montez, sweat would be my dream. I don't think he lasts. Yeah, I don't think he gets there either. If he does, you take him. You have to take them. You have to take them. And you don't worry about anything else. Because whether it's this year or next year, the one thing that, you know, can sustain and can make you competitive, if you keep building to the defense, and what is it? You know, we've had two or three drafts in a row where the majority of players taken by the Redskins in the draft have been defensive players. I think it was five of eight last year and maybe six or seven of nine the year before. Well, even going back to the 16 draft after Doxon, it was Cravens, Fuller, Ionitis, right?

So they've focused on that, and they're young in that area. So even if they aren't ready to win, which I don't think they are, you keep adding defensive talent two to three years from now, even if the organization looks different, you've got different front office and different coaching staff. you've got young talent then coming into their own, and you should be positioned to be very good on defense. And this draft, as you said, is super, super strong in the pass-rushing area, a place where the Redskins have really lacked in years. Kerrigan's a nice player, he's a good player. He's never put fear into an offensive coordinator. They need that speed guy off the edge.

Well, and the way you described, you don't need another bull rush brute strength guy. That is Carrigan. Yes. And Preston Smith. And Ryan Anderson, potentially, although I don't really know if we know enough about him yet. You know, I've got to do a deep dive on this. But if you look at what has really hurt this franchise is the lack of second round success. Oh, my God.

And you can go, Darius Geis, Ryan Anderson, Sue Cravens, Trent Murphy, David Amerson, whatever you want to say about Preston Smith. I mean, these are guys off the top of my head. Jarvis Jenkins? Yeah. I mean, I think... Then all of them in 2008, you know, Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, and Devin Thomas.

But I think the best hope, I think what fans should be hoping for for Ryan Anderson this year, is if you remember Trent Murphy, the two of them are very similar players, super strong guys that overpowered college offensive linemen. They get to the pros and they just don't have the quickness. Trent Murphy's third year, he kind of broke out. I think he had an eight or nine sack season. I think that's what you're hoping for for Anderson. But I think you're hoping for that as your third rush guy, not as your second.

Yeah, they just overall, for many years now, it's been, you can say it in a blanket statement, they've needed more team speed, and desperately on defense, they've needed more team speed. And that edge rusher, that speed rusher has been missing. I don't think anybody signed Shane Ray. There must be something wrong with him because he is a- I think there's medical question. Yeah, he's had broken wrists, I think, multiple times. All right, so back to your bold prediction.

So number five was they're not taking a wide receiver at 15. Number four was three of their first four picks will be on offense. Number three is they're going to take defense at 15. Number two, no quarterback drafted. So number two and number one kind of work together, so I'm just going to put them together. They're not going to draft a quarterback because they're going to trade for Josh Rosen. And I'm not reporting that. I'm not saying it's a done deal, but I really think it makes so much sense.

And I just don't think that first rounder that Arizona is waiting for is going to emerge. I think the package looks something like this year's second rounder, a 20-20-third rounder, and then the skins have three fifth-round picks. I think you can include one of those to get this thing done. And I think we were texting about this, maybe. I don't think the skins can give up 15 for Rosen, but I think that collection of second, third, fifth, spread out over two years just to kind of spread out that impact is absolutely worth it for Josh. I think he gives you long-term stability at the position. I think just about anybody would say he's the number two guy on this year's quarterback draft board.

I just think it makes too much sense to not get it done, and then I think the skins are still. still able to get the other pieces they need by hanging on to both of their third round picks for this season. You and I are hearing the same thing. I mean, off of that, and I can't even tell you who it was the guy in Denver who tweeted out whatever he did, but on Friday, that's what I think. All bright. All bright. I think the Redskins are willing to give up this year's second. I think they'd be willing to give up the compensatory third this year. 96? Yeah, and a fifth or, you know, whatever, a late, late. round pick for Rosen, but not 15. The thing that worries me heard a little bit about this, and I've

not mentioned it today on the podcast, so I'll do it with you, is that there's still the possibility that a New England or a Chargers decides to use the first round pick and trade for Rosen. And if the Redskins aren't willing to give up 15, then that would still be a deal that the Cardinals would prefer, not to mention dealing him to an AFC team, although I don't know that that's necessarily the concern. Also, I just wanted to insert one other quick thought because several people tweeted me over the weekend that there was some sort of report that Case Keenham could be involved in a trade for Rosen. But just so everybody's clear on this, and I'm answering my Twitter followers and we can talk about it after, I said when they drafted case, when they traded for Case Keenum,

and people were saying, well, this is going to be part of a three-team deal with Arizona. I'm like, well, no, no, no, if Arizona wouldn't want it in Case Keenum, they would have just traded for Case Keenum. But if we get down the road here and a package of picks don't work, and then the Cardinals, it's still, I guess it's possible Keenham could be involved in the deal. Now, the Redskins would take an accelerated salary cap hit on that, right? Or is it all salary? I mean, they're only on the hook for three and a half mill. Yeah, no, but they'd actually have savings if they dealt McCoy instead.

McCoy would be the better quarterback to trade. Well, so I think the thing you're, Daniel Jeremiah, NFL network analyst, draft guy, had a tweet over the weekend that, you know, if Arizona and Washington are talking, it would make a lot of sense to send Keenum to Arizona because of his history with Kingsbury and just being able to get me from. That's where it came from. That's where people were sending me it from now. Being able to be a mentor to Kyler. I would say this, though.

I mean, Gailor Murray and Cliff King and Case Keenum are entirely different quarterbacks. Maybe Colt would actually make more sense at the backup of the Gailer Murray. The one thing I think, and I reported this a while ago, that the skins are pretty active in the trade market and very much considering using their own players as parts of trades rather than just draft picks. And if you just look back to what they've done,

I mean, look at the Alex Smith trade last year. That trade doesn't get done unless Kendall Fuller is a part of it. I think because this is looking like a draft day time trade for Rosen, if it happens, it's natural to assume that picks are what gets it done. But I don't think, I'm not saying the Keenum is going, but I wouldn't rule out that a player gets involved maybe instead of the late fifth round pick or something. Yeah, I would just think from the Cardinals, standpoint, they are thinking about the future and they probably don't want players. They probably

want picks in the same way that the Browns, you know, during this process, just built up, you know, a cupboard of picks to use and to ultimately deal for players potentially, but they're still at that process of accumulating picks. But I wouldn't, I would have been shocked had we had learned that Keenham was part of a three-team deal in, you know, you know, in February, but because it would have made no sense for the Cardinals to handle it that way, to give up Rosen when they could have gone straight to Denver to get Keenum, if that's who they wanted. But anyway, I'm with you. The other thing that might have complicated that, and maybe this is overthinking it,

but Colmokoy is now on crutches and isn't going to be back until phase two of OTAs, I believe is what Gruden told us in Arizona. So if this team thinks they're close and you traded for Keenum, even though, you know, the idea would be to get Rose in, and there's a million hypotheticals along the way. I just wonder if moving Keenum is less of an option because of Colt's recent surgery. I think the other, I think that's really important, clearly, because they can't be effective in preparing their team in the offseason with one quarterback healthy, you know, on the roster. But I think there's something else, too, that we've forgotten to talk about in this part of the discussion. And that is what Jake Rudin told Kime, or, you know,

as part of Kime's story last week or the week before, and I'm paraphrasing at this point, but just that basically when you go young at quarterback and Josh Rosen's young, I take Josh Rosen and I throw them into the same category of if they draft a rookie quarterback, not exactly apples to apples, but a super young quarterback that you're going to have to wait on. I don't think Jay Gruden wants to wait on anybody. I mean, his job's on the line. I think the folks in the front office don't feel their jobs on the line. So it's a very dichotomy there, yeah.

I mean, to me, it's like right now, Gruden would say, let's get defensive pass rushers, let's get a wide receiver, let's figure out a way to get a guard in there. Colton Case, give me a developmental guy in the fourth round. That's fine. Although I don't like keeping three quarterbacks. We may put him on the practice squad if he can't play, if I don't really believe in his future.

But give me case and Colton, let's build up the rest of the team, and let's go try to win nine games. make the playoffs. I think that that would be his preference. For sure. I think he's more or less said that. Yeah. In Arizona, he told us he's like, look, we're built to win low scoring, grinded out games. I'm happy to do that. That's our goal. And I think he's all in on that. I don't know that the front office is in on that or they're looking for the same thing. I love that. We're built. That was the line he had, remember, in 2014 with Griffin,

he went off on Griffin, and he said at one point, look, we got to figure out a way to make a play on special teams or score on defense and win 13 to 10. And it was really incredible that first year when you think about the frustration level he had for RG3 and how he just let it fly publicly. All the time. And I think Doc Walker has the best line about that ever that he has since been waterboarded and doesn't say anything. I mean, we went from, you know, the combine in 2015 of him saying, no, we're going to have a competition for quarterback.

I mean, we're not coming. It's not Griffin's job. We're going to have a real competition to, you know, two weeks later saying, oh, no, no, RG3 is the starter. But we hope Colton and Kirk can compete too. I mean, so he did get waterboarded in the process. And he still, Jay will give you some stuff. I mean, you know, he's so funny and sarcastic. that sometimes you just have to kind of be able to speak Gruden in a lot of ways.

But I think he's still pretty good about it. But, yeah, I mean, that first year, the stuff he was saying about Robert was wild, considering the esteem Robert was still held in in the building. Right. The problem with the grinded out thing in the comment that you said he made in Arizona, and you're talking about at the league meetings, he made that? Yeah. Okay.

The problem with that is they just haven't, and Gruden hasn't been anywhere he's been. they haven't been very good being a run-first team. They just haven't been. Well, and I think a lot of that is that the run game doesn't necessarily, especially last season, too many times the play action didn't mirror the run game, and you weren't making defenses be honest and have to look for everything. I think that's got to improve. Jay talked about that.

I think some of our question about getting new tight ends will help with that stuff. And, you know, there's also the run game, I had Andy Benoit on my podcast. I don't know if you follow him, but he's great. He's great. And he was telling me that, you know, as much as the skins haven't invested in the left guard, and it's certainly been a hot topic for all of us, that it really hurts their run game, that just having someone that's serviceable rather than kind of the below replacement people they've trotted out has really been a negative factor for them.

I think one of the other things too, and Cooley has really talked a lot about it, and you mentioned all the work he's done on his podcast, breaking down, first down, second downs, and I think he's getting to the third downs as well, is that, you know, since Sean left, and they had those explosive teams offensively, and I know Jackson and Garsohn and Reed were, you know, Reed was healthy, and they had a better quarterback than they had last year. I don't think there's any debate about that, personal. but it hasn't been the same.

And one of the things that's really interesting is you had a quarterback last year that should have been really good with play action, boot, and quick game. And Cooley's breakdown basically told you that they didn't run anywhere near enough of any of that, which would have gone, and I have asked him multiple times, why not? And Cooley's answer is, I don't know why not. I think as helpful as Cooley's breakdown was, especially, you know, I mean, the depth and detail he went into was really pretty astounding. But I don't even think you need that level of depth. No, of course not. No, they didn't run enough of that. Between the quick passing game, and certainly, I think all of us expected to see a lot of Alex Smith on the move.

Dude, when I was in training camp last August, Alex Smith was on the move all the time. They were running option. it really looked like we were going to see something different. And then when the season started, it got very far away from that. And I don't know what happened. Part of me wonders, I'm sure you know Warren Sharp, who's another one of these like analytical-driven football analysts, but he said coaches fall into this trap with Adrian Peterson

that they just feel like they have to run off-tackle all the time. And I don't know that that happened to Jay Gruden, but when Cooley breaks down, the amount of times they call Duo and all that stuff, you've got to wonder if some of that isn't thinking, all right, this is the best way to use AP, he's a horse, let's do it. Yeah, I mean, it was just strange, and you're right, we didn't need Cooley. The first home game against the Colts, I mean, the Colts are playing as soft a coverage as you can possibly imagine, and I'll never forget tweeting it out in the first half

that Kirk would have had $2.75 in the first half against this defensive. course everybody went nuts. But really, the fault was J's. I mean, they had the ability to quick game them to death, to throw underneath to death, and move the ball and maybe they would have had issues in the red zone. You know, we had seen that in previous years with cousins a quarterback, but they weren't doing any of that. And Cooley's only answer that seemed to make sense is that they incorporated a lot more, you know, RPO into the offense. And that was the replacement for some of the bootlegging quick game and play action. But Alex Smith, to me, watching him in Kansas City when he was effective, as you said, he was out on the move, he was

booting. He was, you know, there was play action. And ultimately, the struggles they had on offense last year, I think, you know, a lot of that was on Jay. A lot of that might be great. I agree. And it seems like he knows it, too, when we were in Arizona and trying to press him a little bit. Just on, you know, changing game plan or counting on injured guys, I think he's frustrated that he feels like maybe he keeps getting dealt a short deck or that he finally gets his deck and then somebody else gets hurt. But I think some of that is also he knows play calling has to be better. He absolutely knows and said that the run game has to mesh up with the past game much better. Yeah. It speaks to a lot of just how everything isn't necessarily in sync from coaching to, you know,

coaches to coaches, coaches to front office. It's just been out of sync here for a while. The last thing, just back to the quarterback situation, I just think you're right. I think this is what their priority is, whether or not they're able to pull it off is something completely different. I think they can sell Jay that Rosen is more ready than Locke would be, than Greer would be, than Jones would be. but at the same time, if they do pull this trade off for Rosen, and let's hope it's not 15 overall, but it's something less than that, he's going to be the starter. Cooley and I had this argument the other day,

and Cooley's like, no, it'll be a competition. I'm like, no, no, no, if they trade for Josh Rosen, they're going to market Josh Rosen, and Josh Rosen's going to start the opener next year. Do you agree or disagree? I think it would be a competition. I think, I think, the, one area that Jay Gruden still has complete control on is who's his starting quarterback,

and I think he has to win games like we've talked about. And barring a decision that doesn't necessarily come from Jay, I think – now I'll say this, too. Rosen could win the job, but I do think it would be a competition. Then you and I are head-to-head-to-head-to. So we'll talk about – That was coolly. We'll talk about bet size. I got a $100 bet with him that if they trade for Rosen, Rosen's the barring injury.

You know, injury gets me off the hook, but barring injury, he starts the opener next year. I would be shocked if they pull off a trade for Josh Rosen. They may not say he's going to enter the camp as number one. They may talk about a competition, but I would be shocked if he weren't the starter on opening day. I mean, now that I'm thinking it through, I mean, just, you know, he's going to be the cover of the first program and all that sort of stuff. I kind of hear, you're not saying that there would be a competition, but you just think Rosen wins it. I just think that if they trade for Josh Rosen, this is going to be their hopeful answer to everything, including last

week when season ticket renewals went so poorly from what I've been told, and it was an ugly day in Ashburn, that they've got to jolt this franchise. And it's not going to be Brian Burns at 15. He's not going to jolt the franchise. You know, it's not going to be a corner of greedy Williams falls and they get to take him. It's going to be a trade for Josh Rosen and maybe a pass rusher at 15. Or, you know,

who knows, you say no wide receiver. And I hope... And it's all of it. It's, hey, we got Rosen, we got a really good pass rush, we got a receiver. But it's not Keenum. It's not, case Keenam's not moving the needle. Josh Rosen will move the needle. And I just think ultimately, if they make that

deal, they're making that deal with the understanding among all of them, hey, we're giving up a second, a third, and a fifth. We didn't do this to play him in 2020 in the third year of his four-year deal. We did this to play him now. And if you don't believe in him to play him now, we won't make the trade. That's the way I would see it. But anything can happen. I would be shocked, though, if they pull off a trade for Josh Rosen and there's actually

some buzz back in the franchise. And I don't know how much there would be more than there is now. I just can't believe that we would get to opening day and he'd be sitting there holding the clipboard. We'll see, man. You're probably right now that I'm thinking it. Maybe not. Maybe they'll get him in and Jay will be like what he did with Griffin.

He'll be like, if you want to win, we've got to play Keenham. He's not ready to lead this particular team. And maybe he would win that battle. They should have that discussion now. They should be watching so much of Rosen from college from last year because if they make that trade, they should be making that trade for their starting quarterback now and in the future. I don't think it has to be for now if you're making the trade.

I think you're allowed to still have a developmental year because this is how we're going to win long term. I think if you try to set this up as a long-term plan for the Redskins, there'll be a lot of excitement around that too. Maybe not the same buying tickets right away, but I think a lot of jolted fans that are like this team doesn't do anything right would think, oh, wow, they're actually doing the right thing. I actually think a lot of people will be dead set against this trait.

I don't think so. If they give up 15, I do. I think that there's a lot of people that don't believe in Josh Rosen. I think it'll be a jolt because it'll be the biggest deal, you know, Antonio Brown aside, certainly one of the biggest deals of this offseason, and you are, you know, if you make that trade, we can disagree on whether or not he's the starter on opening day next year, but we're not disagreeing right that he's your starter in 2020.

Like you've traded for the quarterback of your future. Yeah. But I think our fan base will be, I think it might, it's not going to surprise me at all if people are split on Rosen. I don't think everybody loves Rosen. You disagree. No, I have to leave. I have to run.

Yeah, no, no, no. I've kept you longer than I told you I was going to keep you like I usually do. So go. Thanks. All right. Thanks. I'll talk you soon. All right. Okay, see you.

J.P. Finley, everybody. Follow him on Twitter at J.P. Finley, NBCS, and listen to his podcast, Redskins Talk Podcast. This is going to be the next month. I mean, we're now into the final three weeks before the draft, right? So the draft is, what is it? Is it two weeks from Friday? Two weeks from Thursday.

Two weeks from this Thursday is the draft. All right? That would be the 25th. So we are two and a half weeks and counting on the Redskins figuring out the quarterback of, I think, now and future. I think if they draft a rookie quarterback. The rookie quarterback, if it's Drew Locke at 15 or if it's Daniel Jones trading back or Daniel Jones at 15, there may not be the same level of pressure to start that particular quarterback in the opener. But if you trade for Josh Rosen, I'd be shocked if he's not being traded for to.

start now. I mean, first of all, what's so great about Colt McCoy or Case Keenum? I mean, on some level, wouldn't you expect Josh Rosen to compete and have a chance to beat those guys out? But beyond that, I think the front office is going to really push if they make that trade. They're making that trade for him to be the starter immediately. But I also do believe, and JP and I disagree on this as well. I don't think that all of you out there would be in favor of trading for Josh Rosen. A lot of the feedback social media-wise definitely has been, I don't want Josh Rosen. Josh Rosen can't play. I certainly, most of you, many of you do not want to give up number 15 overall, and I completely understand that,

but many of you don't want to give up, you know, a second, third, and a fifth for Josh Rosen. You want to continue to build with a lot of young players and best player available and that kind of thing. I am for trading for Josh Rosen with a package that includes the second, you know, a second rounder, a third rounder and a late round pick. I am in favor of that. We talked about this on Friday. I would like to see it. I am not in favor of using number 15 on Josh Rosen. I would rather them use number 50. I'd rather them trade up to draft Josh Allen, the Kentucky pass rusher, then trade number 15 for Josh Rosen. I would, but I do want Josh Rosen with a lesser package, for sure. I want that. Real quickly, a word about launch workplaces in Bethesda. If you are looking for a place to move your office to, or you're working from home and it's hard to get work done from home, consider launch workplaces in Bethesda.

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Also, they have locations throughout the area, not just in Bethesda, and all of those locations you can find at launchworkplaces.com. We'll wrap it up for today, but one last thing, for all of you that have listened to the podcast and you're enjoying it, but you know other people that would like to listen to it that don't do podcasts or don't know how to do iTunes or how to do a podcast, just tell them to go to the Kevin Sheeonshow.com. ran into a couple of people on Friday after the show, and they said that they had heard from other people that there was a website, and that's how they were listening to it. A pretty good size percentage of the majority of people listen through the various podcast platforms, iTunes, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, Tune in.

But we have a healthy percentage of people that are listening through the website as well. So urge people that want to listen to the podcast that they can listen very easily by just going to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. Also, if you haven't rated us or reviewed us, do that. No cost. If you haven't subscribed, subscribe. That helps us as well. Final four, the national championship game tonight. I did not give out a smell test, but I would lean Virginia. And I just have a gut feel that Virginia is going to win a very tight game. be back tomorrow, Tommy. We'll be with us. We'll do some hockey this week in preparation for the Caps, playoff series with Carolina as well. Thanks to Corbyn. Thanks to J.P. Finley.

Have a great day.