The Kevin Sheehan Show - Finally, An Elite Pass Rusher!

Episode Date: April 24, 2020

Kevin opened with a recap of the first round of the NFL Draft and the Redskins' selection of Chase Young. Trent Williams wasn't traded and the demand for his services is diminishing. Kevin explained that. Ben Standig/The Athletic jumped on and talked about first round reaches, value picks, and more including what happens next with Trent Williams. Both Kevin and Ben talked Skins' options tonight and through the weekend. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. With the second pick in the 2020 NFL draft, Washington Redskins select Chase Young, defensive end, Ohio State.

Congratulations, Chase. The Redskins are a better team today than they were prior to last night's draft. They got better. the best player in the draft, arguably last night. They drafted, perhaps in the history of the franchise, on draft night, the greatest potential player for their franchise that they have ever drafted. Chase Young was the guy. Chase Young was the guy that many of us wanted going back to midseason,

when it became apparent that the Redskins were a dreadful football team and we're in contention for one of those top two picks. Chase Young is a Redskin. He's an elite pass rushing talent. He is, yes, a generational pass rushing talent. He should be, you know, and you never know with this draft, but he should be one of those five, six defensive players that really keep offensive coordinators up at night, a game wrecker.

He's a freak athletically, he's versatile, he can line up almost anywhere along the defensive front. His presence should elevate the performance of the players around him. The Redskins defensively got better last night, especially when you put it in combination with the coaching staff, the defensive coaching staff that they've added. He will make everybody else on defense better, and because of that, he will make the team better.

And I am personally excited about watching Chase Young on one end and Montez Sweat on the other, and Duran Payne and Jonathan Allen and Matt Ionitis, and who knows, Ryan Carrigan, you know, and Tim Settle could be a part of their depth. Their front four right now, their front four is top 10 minimum in the NFL on paper. They could potentially have one of the more dominant defensive fronts, especially with a solid, first-rate defensive coaching staff of any team in the league. I'm excited about that portion of the team. Chase Young, it was.

It was an interesting night. I thought a very well-executed night last night. It was a combination broadcast between ESPN and the NFL network. And the way I sort of followed it was I was watching it on ESPN, but I would flip it over to ABC where Reese Davis was doing his own sort of ESPN ABC thing, while Trey Wingo hosted the combined NFL network ESPN broadcast. I thought it was well done. It seemed a bit odd at the beginning without, you know, the big crowds of recent years doing it in downtown areas of cities

or even back in the old days when you would just see a lot of activity and a lot of noise at the Marriott Marquis or at some hotel. in downtown Manhattan. It was quiet. It was, and it took a while to get used to that, but I really loved the shots of the coaches and the general managers and the players in their homes, and I thought it went off very well. The broadcast at the beginning, the thing that struck me, two things, number one, the shot of the empty Vegas strip. I think I've seen some of those shots over the last five, six, seven weeks of Vegas. But to see Las Vegas, truly the city that never sleeps, truly the one city in America more than any other, that is 24 hours a day, seven days a week without any downtime. There's always a buzz, four a.m. 5 a.m. on a.m. on a Sunday

morning. Doesn't matter. To see that strip completely empty the way it was last night was really, was really remarkable. It was an eerie sight. You know, it was like, you know, that old saying about Vegas, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Well, what's happening in Vegas right now is nothing. There is nothing going on. And I did watch the mayor of Las Vegas's interview with CNN. And it was, I don't know, rather sort of all over the place and almost indecipherable. But it was, it was a shot. You know, that's where the draft was supposed to be last night. Todd McShay, how about that?

He's got the coronavirus, and it was not a part of the SPN's broadcast. I hope it works out for him. Roger Goodell from his basement. I think he wore a couple of things like he changed outfits and slipped into a Mr. Rogers, you know, cardigan sweater there at one point or maybe wasn't a cardigan, but it was a sweater. maybe he had slippers on for all we know. You know, I thought some of it was easy. He's not, you know, he's not a great sort of dynamic host of anything.

There was the self-deprecation that Tommy hoped for with the booze. You know, he talked about how he was going to miss hugging the players when they came up on stage. I've always thought that that seemed to be a bit contrived and uncomfortable because he doesn't know most of those players. that well. But, you know, for the most part, you had a beginning to the broadcast last night that tried to use this NFL draft as a country unifier. The NFL in sports are unifiers in our society. The NFL may be more than anything. And last night having a live event, the NFL draft, and I've not seen the numbers yet, I'm sure the ratings were astronomical. But to spend 15, 16 minutes

or whatever it was before they actually put Cincinnati on the clock with, you know, some of the things that they did. And certainly the recognition of our health care workers and our emergency, you know, people, I think was totally appropriate. And I thought it was well done by the NFL. But by the time the draft actually got started, I saw somebody tweet out, is this a telethon or is this the NFL draft? Well, again, I think the NFL, you know, did it right last night, sort of recognizing that there would be a lot of new viewers to the NFL draft, understanding the position they had last night to sort of, you know, provide this incredible diversion and at the same time to recognize all of the incredibly courageous people that are out there doing incredible work during, you know, an unprecedented situation. I enjoyed the broadcast last night. It went off without a hitch. You know, we got shots of the coaches and houses.

How about, you know, Cliff Kingsbury's house? What a spread he has. It looked like Jared Jones was on a yacht last night. It was, you saw Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer in his family room and, you know, turned on the fireplace. And he had a bunch of animals, you know, hanging off the mantle of the fireplace, a big old buck right over the fireplace. Minnesota actually did pretty well in this draft, I thought. But I enjoyed the broadcast last night.

I'll enjoy it again tonight. I mean, we had all of the talking heads, all the expertise from the Mel Kuyper's of the world, which I enjoyed. But it was an exciting night. You know, I thought it moved pretty quickly too for the most part. The draft itself, and I'll steer it back to the Redskins here momentarily, I think the first surprise of the first round was Andrew Thomas being drafted by the Giants. There was definitely discussion that the Giants were going to go offensive linemen.

Most people thought it would be Will's Jr. or Worf's out of Iowa. They went Andrew Thomas out of Georgia, Thomas, was perceived to be the lineman that was most ready to go and play right away and more of the natural left tackle. the quarterbacks went 5-6. Miami did take Tua. There were all those reports, and we talked about him yesterday, about their efforts to get up to number one to get Joe Burrow. But they're the ones that go with Tua Tua-Tunga-Viloa. Justin Herbert went to the Chargers. I'm not a big fan of that pick. Derek Brown to Carolina, I just personally think that Derek Brown's going to end up being one of the best players when we look back on the 2020 draft. Just loved watching him play for Auburn. Big number five was just a relentless, strong, quick, athletic playmaker up front. And I just don't see how what I saw in college doesn't translate significantly to the pro level. I think Derek Brown's going to be one of the real players out of this draft. Then came some intrigue. Isaiah Simmons went to Arizona at eight overall.

A lot of people loved Isaiah Simmons in this draft. I mean, Clinton Portis told us on the radio show he would take Simmons second. Wouldn't have taken Young had he been the Redskins GM. Charlie Casserly told me last week, or earlier this week, that Simmons was a guy that it was going to be difficult to figure out where he plays. But he went to Arizona, C.J. Henderson, the corner that many people thought was the closest thing to Jeff Okuda, who the Lions took at three. He went to Jacksonville at 9 and then started the run on offense.

lineman after the Giants had taken Andrew Thomas at four. And with it, all of the teams that were potential trade partners with the Redskins for Trent Williams, they started addressing the tackle need via the draft. First, it was Jedrick Wills Jr. from Alabama going to Cleveland. Josina Anderson quickly tweeted out that the Browns are no longer in the Trent Williams trade market. Then Mackay Beckton, the big offensive tackle from Louisville. goes to the Jets, another team that was a potential trade partner for Trent Williams. Then Tristan Worf's to Tampa Bay, another team that potentially had they restructured some deals or maybe cut a player or two could have made a Trent Williams deal work.

And then Miami, Austin Jackson, goes to them at 18. So you had Miami, Tampa, the Jets, and the Browns, all potential trade partners. for Trent Williams address tackle in the draft. It was pretty incredible to see one after another sort of come off the board and go to these teams. And, you know, to me, it's real simple when it comes to this portion of the draft and how it relates to the Redskins. With fewer teams interested in Trent Williams because they were able to address this situation via the draft, it means that there's less demand and that means the price is going to drop more likely than not. simple economics. Less demand. You can't get the same price. The price drops. This goes back to what we've

talked about for a while. And I hope it's changed with the new group of people that are running the organization now. But this organization's been so poorly run for so long. And when it comes to Trent Williams, it's another example of a team that aired on this side of stubborn and petty and stupid. You know, Trent's destinations were bound to dwindle if you had any vision and saw what was in the 2020 draft. For many, many months now, all of the draft people have told you this is a big-time offensive tackle draft, especially in the first round. There's depth in this draft, but some real talent in this draft. The closer the Redskins got to the draft, without making a deal, the less likely it became because teams were then willing to see if they could answer that question, answer that roster need with a draft choice.

You're left with teams like Minnesota, who I think could be interested, Denver could potentially be interested. Seattle, you know, maybe somebody we're not thinking of. but clearly the leading contenders, Cleveland, Miami, maybe you thought the Jets or Tampa, they are no longer more likely than not in the Trent Williams market so you have less demand. It's frustrating because I think this is something that we've been talking about for a while and most of you have agreed. They needed to strike while the iron was hot, while he still had two years left on the deal, before he hadn't played for an entire season and sat out for an entire season.

And before you got in to an offseason that was leading up to a draft that was loaded with tackles. We'll see what happens. I think the chances now have increased again that Trent Williams will be a part of the Redskins. But when I say the chances have increased, I would still put the chances at no better than 25%. Somewhere in that neighborhood. I put out a poll this morning on Twitter on my Twitter account at Kevin Shee in D.C. Just about an hour ago, actually, before I started to record the podcast.

Simple question, if the Redskins are unable to get what they want for Trent Williams in a trade, would you accept him back? Would you want him back? You know, I've got 2,000 votes already on this poll, and 62.3% of you say yes. 37.7% of the people that have responded have said no. I think that's interesting because I think many people believe what I believe, which is, number one, don't trade him unless you get what you want and what he is worth. Now, you can say, well, the market dictates what he's worth. That's true to a point. But we understand what kind of player he is. He's not a fourth round player. You know, the money that was reported that he was looking for should have made very clear to him and his agent that the Redskins aren't.

aren't going to take a fourth rounder or a third and a, you know, or a third and a fifth. You know, that's not going to happen. It shouldn't happen. Maybe it ultimately will if they just decide they want to move on from it. Maybe they were hopeful that this weekend something would pan out and they would be able to get what they were asking. My position remains the same. If you don't get at least a second round pick, I would go to him as coolly as suggested and say, Trent, let bygones be bygones, Bruce Allen's gone, Larry Hess is gone, Kyle and I are running this ship. We're good people. We've got a good coaching staff. You're going to love my offensive line coach. You should be playing. The only way you get a

contract next year is to play this year. We will give you one, you know, one incentive to do so, and that is we will commit to not franchise tagging you next year. But let's play. We have a need. You have a need to play. You don't want to lose the money. We don't want to pay out some of it without you being a part of the team. And who knows? Maybe at the end of this year, you'll find that you like us and we really like you.

And we might work something out with you anyway down the road. I would do that if I don't get the right offer back. I would definitely accept him back. It would not be a problem. I just don't buy into the whole disruption thing. I do buy into the culture change and perhaps Ron Rivera saying ultimately, I don't want somebody who doesn't want to be here no matter how talented he is. And the circumstances that we're in, they're not my fault.

This was the previous regime that really messed it up. But I need to move on. I want to get my guys in here. He may come to that conclusion and they may end up dealing him for a fourth or a fourth and a conditional something next year. But I would not trade Trent unless I got at least a second rounder. So back to the draft and the first round last night. A couple of interesting things in addition to the offensive lineman run

and what that did and how it impacted the Redskins. The wide receiver run started with a receiver that really wasn't mock drafted to be the first taken. Charlie Casserly thought that there was a big difference between Jerry, Judy, and C.D. Lamb and the next rung down. There was somebody else who was on my radio show. In the last week, it may have been Tony Pauline from Pro Football Weekly, who essentially agreed with that as well. Well, Henry Ruggs was the first wide receiver taken at number 12 overall. Went to the Raiders. Such a Raiders pick, right? Rugg's a 427.40 guy. It's as if Al Davis from his grave made him. the pick. He loves deep speed and Ruggs really is a dynamic explosive playmaking wide receiver. If I were a Rader fan, would I prefer Lam or Judy? Maybe. I may have preferred Jefferson

even more, but Ruggs has a chance to be really, really good. The next wide receiver was Judy who went to Denver. You know, Denver now going with Drew Locke and they've added a key piece and that sort of fell into their lap. I don't know that Denver was expecting Jerry Judy. In the same way that Dallas at 17, C.D. Lamb fell into their lap. You know, there had been talk about a defensive end, a pass rusher, you know, a corner, a couple of other things. But C.D. Lamb was there, and now the Cowboys have Amari Cooper and C.D. Lamb.

And then you got what Ben Standing predicted in his final mock draft on the radio show yesterday. He said Philadelphia loves Jalen Rhaegor, the receiver from TCU. Rhaegor wasn't a lock, you know, first-round guy, wasn't mocked by everybody as a first-round guy. I love Rager, got to watch him a lot as I watched TCU football over the last couple of years, phenomenal punt returner. And the Eagles loved him too, and they took him before Jefferson. Justin Jefferson was on the board, an incredible contributor at LSU, and that left it for Minnesota to base up.

take the pick they got from Buffalo in the Diggs trade, they took Justin Jefferson. The interesting thing about Jefferson and Minnesota is both Jefferson and Thielen are more slot guys. So it'll be interesting to see what Gary Kubiak does offensively in Minnesota. And then the last receiver was San Francisco trading back into the first round and drafting Brandon Ayuk, who was probably the guy with the longest arms and the biggest catch radius out of Arizona State. Go check out the game he had against Oregon when they upset Oregon this year. The biggest surprise by far of the first round was Jordan Love being drafted by Green Bay after Green Bay traded up four spots from 30 to 26 to take him. He's the heir apparent. They went for the heir apparent to Aaron Rogers now. Brett Favre was 35 when the Packers drafted Aaron Rogers.

Rogers is 36, and they've drafted Jordan Love. A lot of Packer fans, I'm sure, wanted some playmaking abilities, a receiver, a tight end, something for Aaron Rogers to work with. He's been missing weapons here in recent years, but they drafted the quarterback of the future. I think Aaron Rogers has three, four years left. You know, you get Jordan Love on a four-year deal with a fifth-year option as a first-round pick. Maybe that's why they took him in the first round,

because that gives them the option of five years, not four. It'll be interesting up there. They needed weapons for Aaron Rogers to make a run, and they drafted a player that probably won't play for a few years. But they got it right the first time when they drafted Rogers, you know, to replace eventually Fav. Love is one of those guys. He had a great junior year, not as good of a senior year,

but he becomes and became last night the fourth quarterback in the first round. couple of guys picked that nobody saw coming in certain spots. You know, Patrick Queen fell a little bit. Jefferson fell a little bit. Damon Arnett, the corner that was picked by the Raiders with their second pick, which was a bit of a surprise, him going that high. But, you know, if you watch the tape on Arnett, he is a battler. He is a competitor, even if he isn't the most talented of the corners in this draft.

Jordan Brooks, the outside linebacker probably went a little bit higher. Seattle than most thought. And then Noah Igginogne, Igen-O-Gin-A is the way you would pronounce it, I believe. Didn't work on that one, clearly. But the corner from Auburn that went to Miami, when Miami traded back with Green Bay and they took him at 30, that was a bit of a surprise. And then the end of the first round, the Chiefs took Clyde Edwards-Hillair out of LSU. I've talked a lot about the running backs the last two days going into this. draft. It's a position that I loved trying to guess on. And I said that I didn't think DeAndre Swift, who was really the back that more than any other, was projected to be a first round guy or the first

running back taken. I liked J.K. Dobbins and I like Edwards Halear more. Those were the two out of the top four, including Jonathan Taylor, that I liked more than Swift and Taylor. I liked Dobbins and Edward Salair. I think the Chiefs got a gem at the end of the first round, and he totally fits with what they're going to do. There are going to be a ton of running backs taken in the second round. I'll be interested to see if it's Swift or Dobbins or Taylor that goes next. I think Dobbins should be the next guy to go, and we'll see what happens there. But, you know, a first round that I thought moved pretty quickly, you know, there were some trades. There were a bunch of trades not early. The first one, you know, taking place, you know, when the Buccaneers switch spots with the 49ers.

That was the first trade that went down that allowed the Buccaneers to jump to a spot where they could get the offensive linemen to protect Brady. And then we saw a bunch of trades after that. the dolphins, you know, moving back with the Packers and, you know, a few more there at the end of the first round, the Patriots trading out of their spot with the 49ers, etc. Minnesota made a trade. They had 22 where they took Jefferson. They had 25. They made a trade with the 49ers, moved back, and they got the corner from TCU, Jeff Gladney.

Now, as far as the Redskins go, a couple of things. things. We've talked about the Trent Williams stuff and what the draft did to the Trent Williams trade market. I would still bet that he gets traded and I would lean towards like the Vikings or maybe a surprise team like Denver, you know, maybe not so much of a surprise that Garrett Bowles, the first rounder that they took in 2017 has been a disaster and they have the cap space. even though they did sign Juan Jameson last year to play the other side. And just a little more on the selection of Chase Young that came from Les Carpenter in the Washington Post that I thought was interesting.

Carpenter wrote that the Redskins pretty much settled on Young and that they turned down at least two significant offers in the past week from teams looking to trade up to number two overall. He had sources that told him that one of the teams that wanted to trade up, offered draft picks as well as a top player who wanted to be traded from that particular team. The other team was reported, you know, by Fox Sports to have been Atlanta who wanted to trade up from 16 to number two. I think the first team that he describes more likely than not is Jacksonville. They had two first round picks and they had a player in Yannick and Gokwe who,

wanted to be traded. So I think when he describes one of those teams was offering picks and a top player, I think that was Jacksonville. I don't know that, but it's just deductive reasoning. He also wrote, Les Carpenter did in the Post, that the Redskins coveted young, but also coveted Jeff Okuda, the corner that went to Detroit, went to the lines at number three, and that the skins may have been more open to a trade if it could have been assured that it would have landed Okuda after moving back. Now, the Lions drafted Okuda with the next pick, so the Redskins weren't going to be in position to trade back unless it was with Detroit and still get Okuda. Overall, and Rivera addressed this in his conference call, his Zoom call last night with Kyle

Smith after the first round of the draft, that it really wasn't close, that there wasn't really a package that entice them to move off of Chase Young. I'm thrilled about Chase Young. I'm glad they didn't trade back. I think they've got a great defensive front. I think there's going to be a couple of interesting things about that defensive front to keep in mind. You know, with Payne, Alan and Ionitis, and by the way, Alan and Ionitis, in particular, being versatile. Either one of them can move outside in a four or three. You've got sweat on one end, Chase Young on another. You've also got, let's not forget, Ryan Carrigan is still currently in the mix. So how this gets handled, most teams play with a rotation. You don't just play four guys. You know,

you need five, sometimes six during the course of a season. And they do have a guy like Settle, even a guy like Caleb Brantley who can play. But I was, asked a question earlier this morning on the radio show, do I think the Redskins are going to make a trade? Are they going to unload any of their defensive linemen because they seem to have too many? My answer to that is no. I don't think they will. I think sweat, pain, Alan, Ionitis, and Chase Young are going to fit into basically a five-man rotation with four spots. I think Carrigan fits in there somewhere. I'm not sure where yet. But, you know, Carrigan would probably be a sixth guy as part of the rotation. I would think on third down, passing situations,

it's young and sweat on the ends and a guy like Alan and Ionitis in the interior. If they did trade somebody, and I don't want him to do this, I think it would be Duran Payne. I think they love Alan. He's perfect for the culture. Ionitis the same. Payne's upside for me is as high as anybody's other than Chase Young's. freakish athletically. I think Payne's got a chance to be a dominant, dominant interior lineman. With that said, I sense that maybe a guy like Allen and Ionitis might be more Rivera kinds of guys. But I don't think they're going to trade anybody. I think they're going to figure this thing out, and you'll end up with certainly six guys, including Carrigan, I would think. I'm not positive about that for those four spots. I'm excited about.

about Ryan Anderson, too, behind that defensive front. I thought he was the most improved player on the team last year. And we'll see about Thomas Davis and Cole Holcomb and John Bostic and Ruben Foster and Sean Dionne Hamilton. The Redskins have a good front four, excellent front four. They're front seven, not bad. They've added Sean Davis and Kendall Fuller to go with Landon Collins. We understand the secondary, you know, perhaps lack of depth, if not lack of starter. but the Redskins got better by drafting Chase Young. You know, that in combination, obviously, with the new coaching staff. I'm excited about them defensively.

The biggest surprise about the 2020 season, if it gets played, and if it gets played, you know, in a full season, would be if this team isn't significantly, significantly improved defensively. All right, Ben Standing coming up next from the athletic. We'll talk to Ben. But real quickly on Stamps.com, during this pandemic, You need to avoid crowds. You need to avoid going to the post office.

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If you use my promo code, Kevin D.C., you're going to get a four-week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in, Kevin, DC. That's stamps.com, Kevin, D.C. All right, let's bring in Ben Standing from the athletic. Love talking to Ben about this football team and about other things in town. Follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standig. And right now, subscribe to the Athletic.

You've got a free opportunity during this pandemic to get what I've been getting for a while, which is Ben Standing covering the Washington Redskins and a lot of other good writers locally covering local teams. but your chance right now to try out the athletic for free during this pandemic, I would urge you to do so. So most of you know if you follow Ben or if you listen to him on various radio stations, including mine, or on this show on the podcast, that Ben was the reigning mock draft champion, national mock draft champion heading into the draft last night. He laid out his entire first round mock with me.

on the radio show yesterday. And, you know, he's been matched up against some of the best. Daniel Jeremiah, Evan Silva, you know, Zerline. A lot of these guys who have been really good at doing this, and he won it last year. So I do know, because I had your mock draft and you laid it out for me yesterday, I do know that last night didn't go as well for you as a year ago did. Where did you finish last night? Uh, I actually don't know the place.

It wasn't the top. It wasn't one of the, what wasn't towards the top. So, um, I mean, ultimately, I think it's from the purpose of the contest, I got six exactly right. And, um, it was a weird, it was a weird night for me from a certain perspective and not because of dealing with the Redskins, Chase Young and the coaching staff didn't talk until the end, towards the end of the first round. And, um, I, I sort of lost my way and sort of, like, focusing on what would happen

towards the end. Basically, the last handful of picks were a bunch of, you know, surprise players, guys. I don't think a lot of people had picked in the first round. So, yeah, I don't know the exact place, but it definitely was more towards the middle bottom than it was the number one. You want me to help you out with where you were? Oh, sure, go ahead. You finish in a tie for 69th. However, this is more important. There's a five-year, you know, average of finishes and you are third overall. And this is out of, I don't know, every bit of 75 to 100 guys that are tracked here. So your five-year running average, you are number three overall behind Forrest Long,

the Huddell Report, and Ryan McChrystal from Draft Ace. But you're ahead of guys like Evan Silva. and I'm looking through Lance Zeerline from NFL.com, Daniel Jeremiah, who many people thought had a chance to become an NFL general manager last year. So you are ahead of a lot of those guys. Last night, overall, what did you make? Before we get to all the Redskins stuff, you know, what were you most blown away with in the first round in terms of the way it played out?

and what were you, you know, sort of did you feel like you were spot on? Like, did you have one of your mock picks that you were most proud of or not? Sure. Can I use inside baseball, like, in terms of, like, the process and, like, why for me, sometimes things work and sometimes things don't? Yes, please. So, like, I guess this is common for a lot of people, but, like, for me, like, knowledge is confidence. The more I feel like I know something, the more confidence.

confident I am in whatever it is, whether I'm talking about, you know, my day-to-day job, a conversation about, I don't know, politics, women, the Redskins, whatever the thing is, the more confident I, the more I think I know because I studied it and all these things, the better I think I am. And last year, when I did this thing, you know, with an NBC Sports Washington, you know, they had me do, it was upward of 20 mock drafts, you know, from like, say, January on, and I was doing them like every other week for a while in the last two months, probably every week.

I was really like into a good rhythm with it. And then here at the athletic, as you know, Kevin, because part of the season why you and I started talking more on the radio was, like, I kind of wasn't doing the national mock drafts for us because we have a guy, Dan Buregler, does it, and that's just kind of, it's his thing, and I'm on the red skin. So I wasn't like going through the regular day-to-day process that I was the previous year I was like every day doing a mock.

When you and I would talk on the radio, I was plow-I was fiddling with it, but I wasn't like, I didn't have death. headlines to do it. So none of this is an excuse, but my only point is that the previous year, like I really felt locked in because I had, it was a repetition. I really felt I could point to the places on the board where I felt confident and could sort of sift through the noise a little bit easier because you could sort of see the rumors for not. This year, it just felt a little bit different for me. And I think I probably ultimately let some of the noise get to me a little bit more in terms of letting, you know, rumors kind of kind of go.

with where you think things are going to go. So in terms of like what was a surprise, I mean, I guess it's sort of like red. You got rattled, man. You were shooting free throws against the Xfinity Center wall. You know, late in the game, you got tight. You just told us that you choked a little bit this year. You let it get to you. And, you know, that happens with it when you win a championship

and you're expected to defend it and the circumstances are a little bit different. You know, you had to play more games on the road this year. You know? Yeah, definitely, that definitely didn't show. But like, for example, like you're saying, like, what am I most proud of? So, for example, you know, Jaylon Rieger at 21 to the Eagles. You nailed that. I had that.

I would guess a lot of people didn't have that. Now, why did I have that? I mean, at some point in the process, like, I sort of heard that the Eagles had some, had some interest. Tim, if you told me that Justin Jefferson was still on the board, I definitely would not have put Jaylen Rieger to the Eagles. I would have thought that would have been not possible. But in terms of, like, you know, again, sort of sifting through what made sense, what doesn't, it felt like the Eagles wanted speed.

Jaylor Rieger is one of those guys. And so I made that call, and that one worked. Jordan Brooks, getting picked by Seattle, I reported, I didn't put it in my locker up, but I reported 10 days ago, two weeks ago, that he was a legitimate first-round contender, even though people were mocking him. I'm sorry, Big Boards had him, like, late second

into the third and fourth round. So while that wasn't my mocked, like, that was something I heard, and I wish I'd put it in the mock draft, and did it. And my only point is that, you know,

there is a lot of noise, and just some years you just feel, I don't know, for me, at least, you know, the more I do it, the more confident I feel,

and this year, but some of the things that have happened, I just kind of, I don't know, let the whispers dictating more. But look, the same thing happened the year before I took, I mentioned you on the radio yesterday, that I

went with, I felt pretty good about going with Chris Lindstrom to the Falcons in the middle of the first round, similar to regarrow, I don't think too many people, if anybody had that, but that worked. And that's how these things go. I mean, if I had switched, I had Tua and Herbert going back to back, the wrong order. If I do that, then I look better, and it is what it is.

to your point of the overall draft, I mean, I think the top half of the first round, I think what surprised me, this is my point of the noise, because what did we hear in the days leading up to the draft? Oh, there's going to be a big run on tackles. All these teams are trying to move up to three and four. There's all this talk about they're moving up for Tua. They're moving up for Herbert. Right?

All these things being reported, nothing happened. None of these things unfolded to the point that I saw Shepter at one point last night tweet that nobody even offered the lions and the Giants anything officially at three and four. And so stuff like that, I'm saying, like, how could it be that we have so much breathless reporting and then nothing happened? And that part, I think, was broadly, was surprisingly. I was expecting more stuff happening in the top of the draft that ultimately nothing happened. And that, I think, threw some things off a little bit.

Yeah, I am, you know, first of all, Thomas getting picked there was a bit of a surprise, you know, more people were thinking Wurfs or Will's Jr. So to that point, like, again, like I wrote a rumor thing for the athletic a week or go, give or take. In that report, I have in there that I had a general manager tell me he thought that

Worf tested special but wasn't special and simultaneously thought that Andrew Thomas was the best play, it was the best tackle on the board. And so, like, it's one of those, but like, you know, to that point, everybody in their mock drafts had Wurfs and wills. I had somebody tell me the day before the draft

or the day before I had an official turn in my mock draft that Worst was like a very, they felt very confident worst of the Giants was going to happen. And then obviously, it didn't. And that is like, you know,

that was a weird one from that perspective, not the position, obviously, but I think ultimately Thomas was just being the safest guy. I'm assuming that's why Gettelman went with him over over the other guys. A couple of things that I've mentioned about the first round. First of all, I think Derek Brown's going to be a great player.

I think he's going to be one of those players we look back on. And these are all guesses. I mean, even the experts get most of these things wrong. I just love watching him as a college player. But, you know, as it relates to the Redskins and Trent Williams, when we got to 10 and we started to get into that part of the draft where there were teams that were potential, trade partners with the Redskins. It was really amazing to see all of those teams go tackle.

You know, Cleveland, Wills Jr., the Jets, Beckton, Tampa, you know, up a spot, even though they don't really have much cap space, but they take Wurfs. And then Austin Jackson goes to Southern, goes to the Dolphins at 18 overall. That was really interesting. And I think, you know, look, it's simple economics. You know, when there isn't as much demand as there was, the price drops. I mean, more demand would have been a better situation for the Redskins. Somebody just sent this to me. Actually, Aaron just sent this to me. Bet online right now. Odds on whether Trent Williams will be traded today. Oh, this is for today. No is the heavy favorite. Minus 200. Yes is plus 150. What do you think the tackles going to the teams that were

potential trade partners with the Redskins? there are others, and I mentioned Minnesota. I wouldn't be surprised if Denver somehow got involved. Garrett Bulls stinks, even though he was a first rounder. You know, maybe there's another team of Seattle or somebody like that, but what do you think happened to trade, Trent Williams' trade situation last night? And sort of to my, the point I was making before about all the noise. Again, what did we hear leading into the last couple days of the draft?

All this tweets and stuff about Trent Williams that something could have, happened soon, I believe I saw, or shortly, I believe I saw a tweet from a national reporter, and this buzz, and it was like the deepest part of Redskins Twitter was, oh, there's a deal happening, somebody's reporting it, and I'm like, I've been saying for a month, I'm not even saying this is based on, like, talking to deep insiders at Redskins Park. I'm just going with logic. Point to the trade. Tell me where somebody is giving the Redskins, if they're really holding out for a second-round

pick, who's making that deal. I haven't been able to figure that out for two months, because I don't know. don't think it exists, and I would still maintain that. That would be fantastic if I'm wrong for the Redskins perspective, and today we find out that somebody's willing to give them a second or a third round pick, even a third round pick to me. I mean, I think, you know, I've been saying this for a while to hear. Go ahead.

Make the deal let Trent Williams and negotiate through this. If you have this deal, then go ahead. I just don't think it's happening. And now, even more so, yeah, like you said, Cleveland, the Jets, Tampa Bay, all three of those teams were at least, you know, linked, at least in terms of like, hey, this team needs to tackle, the case of Tampa Bay, maybe they're willing to go all-in because of the Tom Brady thing, let's make a deal,

and then all three of those teams take tackle last night. So you would think logically that all those are out. The only positive, I would think, say, that happened was that Minnesota, another team that is in that mix and maybe something of an all-in team because, you know, they're close to being, you know, to get into the Super Bowl, that they made a trade down last night acquiring, I think, a fourth and a fifth round pick, or a third and a fourth one, some variance like that from San Francisco,

and Minnesota, I believe, now has two-thirds, two-fourth, two-fifth. They have 12 picks left, yeah, in total. Yeah, so if they want Trent Williams, let's put the salary cap part of the side for a second. If they want him, that's enough ammunition to figure out how to do that, whether it's a four to five, three and a four, whatever. Okay, their problem, though, is the salary cap. I think they only have a little over $12 million available. They would probably, I mean, I don't know,

their situation enough, maybe there's some fancy maneuvering they can do them to create the money, but they might have to say to the Redsons, look, we'll give you some, a pick or two, but you have to take back Riley Reef contract, their current tackle he makes about, I think he's on the books for like $13 million. But that's not, I mean, I don't think he's that exciting,

but look, the Redskins don't even have an obvious left tackle. So that's about as positive as I can get as to what happened to the Redskins last night, that Minnesota maybe has more stuff to play with. I mean, I reported way back when that the Cardinals were a team. They were kicking tires. They didn't take tackle last night, so maybe they still get interested in terms of it from a Kyla Murray perspective.

But, you know, they already paid DJ Humphrey's their current left tackle, some good money to stay this off season. I don't know if they're the type of team that wants 30-something Trent Williams. So the Chargers were another team. You thought, okay, well, maybe they could get interested. Then they trade their second and third round pick. seemed to move back into the first, or it would seem logical that they

have probably lost ammunition as well. So, you know, yeah, I think the Redskins, it took a hit, and like I said, I'm not surprised in the sense that I don't see what teams were trading up. I'm not surprised that the team bailed on, or didn't bail

on taking a tackle in the first round for trending. It doesn't feel like, you know, I still keep people right now this morning suggesting, wow, I still hope they can get a second, I mean, okay, I hope you're right, but I just haven't seen how that's possible forever. The Minnesota thing's interesting because Riley Rife is a guy, first of all, that played better last year. And Rick Spielman said the other day, we liked the way he played last year. They've had some issues along that offensive line over the last couple of years, but he played pretty well last year.

And there would be, you know, if he were included as part of the trade, he's under contract next year. the year after at roughly, you know, 13 million bucks per year. So they'd save six, seven million if they traded him. And then, you know, now, now they're up to, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 million in cap space. And then they could extend Trent and get his number lower for this year and probably make it work. I don't know what they're going to do with Anthony Harris on that tag. They need him desperately with all of the corners they let go in free agency. I mean, it was, you know, one after another. I don't think they're going to miss Xavier Rhodes at all,

but McKenzie Alexander and I'm forgetting the other corner that went via free agency as well. Well, they drafted a corner. Wasn't they a second, Jeff Gladney last night? Yeah, they did. They drafted Gladney. I'm just trying to think they lost. Minnesota lost three corners in free agency. They lost Rhodes.

They lost Alexander. And Trey Wains. Tray Wains was the other one. So, you know, not to mention that they lost Linval Joseph. They lost, you know, right now Griffin's not under contract. You know, they still have one of the best pass rushers in the game in Hunter, and they've got Barr and they've got Kendricks, and they've got Anthony Harris, who they tagged along with Harrison Smith. But, you know, there's been some talk about them letting Anthony Harris maybe go,

maybe rescinding that. You know, maybe Harris could become a part of a trade. You know, that would be – he is a big-time. free safety, and he would look great next to Landing Collins, you know, much more so than I think Sean Davis would. But anyway, I think the net of it is that, and I don't want to get into the, you know, back and forth that you and I have had over the last several months. The bottom line is the Redskins by not making him available much sooner, much longer ago, this was always the risk if they had any vision looking forward to the 2020 draft,

that it was a draft that most people thought had a ton of tackles in the draft, especially in the first part, you know, the early portion of the draft. And, you know, by continuing, by being petty, by being stubborn, by being stupid, really, in my view, they put themselves into this position personally, and I put a poll out and I shared with everybody

what the poll was early this morning, and I took calls on this on the show. I think the chances of Trent Williams coming back are somewhere in one and four. I still think they'll trade him, and I bet they end up trading him to Minnesota this weekend. But if it doesn't happen, I ask the question, would you as a fan accept him back? Would you want him back? 62% say, yeah, bring him back. They have a left tackle need.

He's got to play, Ben. There's no practical way he can hold out again. his career is over if he holds out again. Yeah, he definitely needs practical matter. You know, last year you had millions of dollars he didn't get and he can't just, you know, make that up simple enough. My only thing, and this is what I just come back to, I'm sure I said it yesterday on the radio or previously with you, is that, you know, to me, when I look at the chess can here,

all Ronald Rivera has preached about, you know, almost about everything else is he wants to reshape the culture of this place. He wants guys who are all in. I mean, that's partly why they moved. He said he moved Quentin Dunbar as quick as it did for essentially as little as they did. They're holding on the Trent Williams more because Trent Williams is a much more valuable asset. But at the end of the day, if you're really trying to reshape this whole thing, even as Trent Williams is not a bitter pill in the locker room,

do you really want a guy in there who clearly doesn't want to be there? I just think that if you're on Rivera, year one of this thing, that just, I don't want that situation on my locker, I want it over with. And the reality is, like you just said, this is the fault ultimately of what happened last year, which has nothing to do with Ron Rivera. He can easily, whether he wouldn't probably say it himself,

but he can easily just pin it on, hey, look, we inherited this situation. It should have been dealt with before, you know, it is what it is. And, you know, we just thought we needed to move on and get a fresh start because we're about the future, not about the past, and this situation represents that. I will say the one thing I thought, and we'll find out probably more of the history of this over time.

But based on what we've heard, at least what I've heard, is just what Rivera has said publicly, he didn't really start reaching out to any players until early February. And I really kind of wonder why you don't reach out the trend of specifically week one of getting hired just to say, hey, man, glad we get a chance to talk. Look, I've got to figure where my office is, where the back. or Mary. I got some things I need to figure out. You're on the list. Obviously, we want to see what we can do with you one way or the other. Yeah, I agree. But that, to me, was the one part of my, I don't know why they waited because it feel like that didn't help the situation. Well, I think it also, like, I have a belief that what I'm going to say could work, but I just don't know whether or not organizationally they want it to work.

And I've laid it out already in the podcast and before, but, you know, at some point, it's like, hey, Trent, look, we couldn't get what we wanted for you. You know, the problem that you had with the organization, Bruce Allen, Larry Hess, et cetera, they're gone. Talk to anybody about me. Players really respect me, like me. Give me a shot. We need a left tackle.

We're not going to trade you. We're not going to do that for a fourth rounder or, you know, a third and, you know, a fourth and a conditional something, you know, based on you signing with another two, whatever it is. We're not doing that. You need to play. And we'll offer you, you know, we'll make you the following offer that we won't franchise tag you after the 2020 season. Similar to what Seattle did with Clowny.

I know it's different. But give us a shot. We'll give you a shot. You need to play. You need to get that contract next year after playing in 2020. We need a left tackle. You know, let's shake hands and make the best efforts over the next, you know, nine, ten months and together. And then we won't franchise.

you. My problem with that is that I do know, and I've mentioned this before, that it wasn't, his teammates love him. He's respected. But there are people in the front office of this organization that felt betrayed that are still angry to this day, and it went beyond Bruce Allen being angry. And to your point, if there's this culture change, you know, that he's more dialed in on, you know, he may ultimately say, you know what, this wasn't my problem. You know, I'm trying to change things. I need to move on from a guy that doesn't want to be here. And, oh, by the way, some people that I work for, maybe the owner and maybe a couple of other people,

they don't really want them here either. So that's what I'm, that's what I would be concerned about because I do think that, you know, it could work from a day-to-day standpoint if he ended up playing here. He's not going to be a guy that's going to cause a huge disruption when he has to play well to get a contract next year. Yeah, and I think, you know, in a season of crazy stuff that happened last year, the thing that stood out to me the most, being in that locker room and Trent Williams showing up for one day and unloading on that organization in such a way that if you're, if you're people who work in that building, and yes, the attention he focused on us mostly

at Bruce Allen and the former trainer who know neither one of them are there, but other people work in that building, and I mean, it's such a bizarre, look, and you can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. the other teammates saw this happen. They know what he's thinking. So, you know, so it just seems like it would be really hard for people in that building outside of the locker room. And then if you're Rivera,

it's just a sort of have this in there unless it was a real turnaround. And, you know, I thought there would have been a chance for sure. Once Rivera came on board based on his reputation as a guy really gets along with his players, and then, you know, pretty quickly on, it became apparent turns like, no, no, I still, nothing changed for me. I still want out of here, especially I assume, I don't even know if the money matters for him in terms of the redskins anymore. So he wants that.

I'm with you. I think I wonder if the owner is like, hey, you know, we're not keeping him. You know, we're going to figure this out somehow in a good way for us. And that's it. It would be great if they could work it out because it would effectively help everybody involved except for, you know, Tren Williams wouldn't be getting an extension. and, you know, at his age with his injuries, I mean, ultimately, I think that is what he wants, is more security, which I don't blame him for, but, you know, I don't think that's going to be coming from Washington.

Last thing on him, and Ben Standig is joining us here on the show. And that is, you know, ultimately, you know, if he really felt like this was a stand that was principled and he felt like he needed to take, well, then good on him. but ultimately this was a disaster for him financially. He could have easily come in last year, more likely than not figured out a way to get himself on injured reserve justifiably after the multiple surgeries that he had on his head. Wouldn't have lost a penny,

wouldn't have, you know, created the ill will both ways. His agent did himself, did his client a disservice here, especially recently when he went public, with, you know, the Redskins are changing their tune on offers and they've been able to generate enough offers. Clearly, that was not true. They may have generated offers, but not offers that the Redskins were willing to accept. You know, I think the Redskins had they gotten, you know, a second round or an approximate thereof, two-thirds or, you know, a third, a fourth and a next year's two, whatever. I think they would have taken it and run with it. They obviously didn't get that. And the

agent was either being really, really sort of misleading or just overall disingenuous when it came to those public conversations about it. But anyway, I think he'll get traded this weekend still, but after last night, the odds for me have increased back to where they were maybe a month ago, and that is I'd give it a 25% chance that he doesn't get traded. Yeah, I mean, and you know, the only thing I'm I will say, like, to sort of go back to the aging point, like, in terms of last year, I'd last year, I definitely think that his side handled it wrong.

There was no, I mean, to me, they should have been early on publicly stating, I want out of here, and put the pressure out of themselves, not leave it up to DeAngelo Hall or other random rumors to be out there. I think Trent Williams genuinely didn't want to upset Dan Snyder. I think he respects him enough and it had a strong relationship that he really was hopeful that it could go a different way. I agree with that. But that to me when you had to have made the point, that's when, because that's when they had some leverage

to do it or before the trade deadline. After that, and in the common sense, I mean, it feels like it's a little too late. But again, I will say to this year, though, you know, we know how rumors get out there. We have never one time heard a real rumor that said that the Redskins and Team X could, you know, have sort of come to terms

on a thorough of a deal that would get the redskins is a third round pick, and now it's up to Trent Williams to negotiate a contract. I just don't think it was out there, and I think that is effectively what the agent was sort of saying. I just don't think that, like, you know, whether his side ultimately agreed to money with some team that he's claiming, I mean, obviously I don't know that,

but that's what they're claimed that they found reasonable terms. And, I mean, he said that to me, that they found somebody who's willing to give them what they want effectively, but that the Redskins are the ones sort of holding it back. But whatever it is, yeah, I mean, I think, and here's the other thing working sort of on the Redskins side, I guess. Because of this COVID-19 situation, we have no idea. His medical situation. What that?

Were you going to say about him physically? No, I was going to say that, like, you know, normally right now there would be a rush to sort of hurry this up. There's OTAs. Oh, yeah, you know, you know, yeah, right. Right. They don't have to do anything right now. Nobody's in the building. And not just for that, but for all, for everything.

Exactly. Other teams are going to want, hey, we want the left tackle here to start getting work. Well, nothing's happening. So to that end, time's on the Redskins side. But, yeah, it would be just, again, the places they could send him that number dropped significantly last night. Look, again, there could be that random team that has another player at a position that we're just not thinking about it. We'll trade you all this salary for Trent Williams. you want to do it. And, you know, it's more like an NBA kind of a trade, but like, you know,

maybe at some point at the point, I think, look, the heck with it. Let's just get what we can get, you know, and move on. I just hope, you know, and we're spending, again, too much time on this, but it seems like it happens all the time. And Tommy made this point yesterday on the podcast, and that is this is a more interesting and debated conversation because, and I said, well, that's because the Chase Young pick was, you know, sort of such a lock. collect. That's what was going to happen. So we focused to all of the reporting over the last couple of days about Trent. But, you know, the bottom line is, you know, they should have been actively trying to trade them. You know, the Charles, the Robinson report from Yahoo, that the

Browns were willing to offer a first round pick, you know, early in the season. They, you know, and then the Redskins may have at the very 11th hour before the trade deadline, you know, started to think about trading him. They never actively made them available. We'll never know what they really could have gotten other than the reporting that the Browns were going to offer first and some of the other things. I think logic dictates that Houston could have been a significant trade possibility for them, but they blew it. You know, regardless of the disagreement that you and I have over whatever it is that they would have gotten, they would have gotten more than they're probably going to end up getting had they been more aggressive and less petty and less stubborn

on this situation? Yeah, I mean, I think you would think you had heard first. I'd heard like a not a first, but yes, I'd still heard like a second. And like I said, if they're going on for them a third right now, they should run to run and grab it. I don't want to, I don't want a third. I'd rather him play for a year for them. They have a left tackle need. But again, I do know that there are people in the front office that want to see him gone, but I also feel at the same time it would benefit the organization to pass on taking a third or a fourth and have him play for a year. You know, I just, I do, especially at this point, I mean, if the deal doesn't come until the weekend, then it's a next year pick anyway. But whatever. Let's, I want to get back to the,

I want to, I've got a couple of other Chase Young related questions for you. But before we do that, In that first round last night, what do you think the biggest reach was? And what did you think the best pick, you know, the best value pick was in the first round? You know, the cornerback, after you got from Jeff Okuda and C.J. Henderson to the next handful of guys, it wouldn't have been surprising me whoever was the next cornerback off the board you could have named a handful of guys. I think the kid Damon Arnett from Ohio State, who was. I believe the third corner. That one seemed to be further down

the list. I mean, there were definitely some whispers of a first round potential for him, but again, you could probably point to like 50 guys who had that. He just happened to be won. Well, AJ Terrell went before him. Was that a reach for the Falcons at 16? No, I think I think, Terrell, again, at least in the

public projections, he was in that range. I think I had said to Terell doing 19 the Raiders. Okay. Arnette was not a guy who was being picked. in the first round. And he went ahead of over, a lot of other guys. So I wouldn't say it's a reach because he may just been at the bottom of that tier, but that one seemed to probably be the most surprising.

The other one, I would say Jordan Brooks, the Texas Tech linebacker. Like I reported like 10 days ago that he is a legitimate first round sleeper. But the reason why it was so stunning when I heard this was, when I looked at various public big boards, he was being projected in like the late second at the earliest, maybe third, maybe fourth, whatever. And so, you know, his numbers in production in college were very impressive. So, you know, is this a tape thing? It's one of those things where if we had a normal pro days, a normal visits,

he would have been more in that first round conversation publicly. And if we didn't know that, maybe. But I just, you know, we're talking about some people definitely didn't see that. So I think that one was a surprise. As far as the best value goes, I mean, I thought Justin Jefferson was moving up. I would bet Minnesota may have been a little surprised that he was still there for them. At 22, it was getting, especially with the Eagles taking a receiver at 21. So I think he's a very interesting one.

I don't know if it's the best value. I heard some people question some things about C.D. Lamb, but there's a lot to like there as well from a physical pass. an aggressive receiver ends that he lends in Dallas, you know, where they've already got a Mari Cooper, Ezekiel Elliott, Dak Prescott, Michael Gallops, pretty good. I mean, you know, weapon on top of weapon now. Like, you know, it's not like it was a precipitous drop for him, but the fact he landed on that team could be a pretty interesting scenario.

If he is, you know, if he's got his game together, his life together, he's ready for the pros mature-wise, then I think that could be a pretty fascinating situation here for doubt. Yeah, I think I agree with you on Jefferson. I think Judy, you know, going to Denver 15, that's a great pick for them. You know, it's funny, I looked at, I don't know, a week ago, I found a mock from basically after, you know, over the summer last year. And Judy was like, you know, somewhere in the top two to top five. But you know who else was was Andrew Thomas? And up until last night, a lot of people thought he was going to be the third tackle off the board, maybe the fourth. But I thought that Jefferson was really good value for Minnesota at 22.

And there was one other one. I think if you watch Patrick Queen play, you realize that the actual fit with the team is like a perfect one. and there was a chance he was going to go before 28 overall, but I think that's a really good match with Baltimore. 100%. I went back and looked at a mock draft that I did in January, and Queen to Baltimore, Henderson's Jacksonville, Kinlaw, at least a highly probable pick for the Niners.

And like, you know, to your point about Andrew Thomas, like, going back even a little bit further, like at the end of last year, when we knew the right to see, were going to be, you know, a top five pick. But Andrew Thomas was the guy Malibus were talking about. Right, exactly. Because we knew that Trent Williams was likely gone, and he was the guy. And then, you know, as is often the case, you know, as you get through the

into these off-season, you know, the rumor mill runs wild. And maybe because he's safe, not spectacular. And he was also the guy that everybody was talking about. He got somewhat ignored, whereas some of these other tackles got pushed up. And, you know, ultimately, you know, if we eliminated the last four months, of noise, nobody would have been surprised that Andrew Thomas was not only the first tackle pick, but the top five pick.

Yeah, exactly. All right, back to Chase Young in some of the reporting from the post Carpenter suggesting that two teams in particular were aggressive in trying to move up. We believe one was

Atlanta. The other one he said was offering picks in a player who wanted to be traded. I just guessed that that was Jacksonville and in Gokwe. Would you guess the same thing? Based on that description, sure. I mean, obviously, from Jackville's perspective, you know,

giving the regulations another pass rusher and getting one in return, you know, again, I, here's one thing that's always funny to me, and it took me a long time in life to sort of realize this, but when we're all, you know, most rumors or most topics of conversation out there in sports have nothing do with the teams that we know instantly because there's, you know, 32 teams in the NFL and NBA and all that stuff. And you hear these rumors from the outside,

you're like, wow, that's whatever. I can't believe the team is doing that or thinking that or why would it. And you take it sort of from phase value because, you know, the reporting is what it is. But then when the reporting spins back your way, I think I learned it during the RG3 era when people were getting upset that Kirk Cousin was going to start, and you're like, are you serious?

Are you watching? What are you talking about? Who would be, who would think this is insane? only people from the outside being fed narrative that RG3 is Superman. And so to that end, the last two months that we've heard about this, oh, they're going to take two or they're going to trade out all these things. I'm not saying it was a negative percent chance, but I literally don't think I heard like one person the whole time say to me,

oh, watch out, they're going to trade them. I mean, nobody who was like sort of truly local in the know, reasonable, not just throwing stuff up at a wall. So, yeah, I mean, I don't, And Ron Rivera's comments last night to the media were pretty firm. He was like, yeah, we weren't doing anything. We were what we did do. Yes, of course, we're going to look at you.

Yeah. Why wouldn't we? I mean, this is what we have to do. It would be insane, you know, to not do that. And that's all they did. He did say one thing I thought was interesting. He said that they decided they needed to have a certain impact level player, and they thought there was only three guys in the draft who fit that description.

When then press, well, could you name the other ones will get Burrow as one? He passed on that. So it's interesting to sort of wonder, who's that third guy? Do they actually think Tua was that guy? No, I think it was, I think it was Okuda. And the reason I think that is, in the less carpenter piece, the Redskins apparently would have only considered a deal if they would have had a chance to get Okuda if they didn't get young.

So I think it was Jeff Okuda. Okay, what I mean that means? Yeah, I think it was Burrow. I think he's, when he made the statement, Rivera made the statement, there were three impact players in this draft. I think it was Burrow, Young, and Okuda, and again, and I'll read you the line from Les Carpenter's piece. So that makes sense?

Yeah, one of the teams was offering picks and a top player. The Redskins coveted, the player that the Redskins coveted most after Young was Ohio State Corner Jeff O'Coh. Kuta, and the team may have been more open to a trade if it was assured of landing Okuda after trading back. So I think that that was the third guy, which by the way, surprises me. I mean, I watched a bunch of Okuda stuff. I think he's good. I actually think C.J. Henderson's a better playmaker, but whatever. I mean, it's so hard. What do we know? I always find it, you know, it's funny the way you were describing sort of reporting, and I agree with you on everything

you said. I always find it interesting at, you know, and by the way, I'd throw myself into this category, but there's a difference and I'll explain it. I always find it interesting when I listen to people who I know couldn't give two shits about college football, and they're just NFL, you know, devotees, and that's all they watch, and that's what they, you know, their whole world revolves around, and we get to the week leading up to the draft, and they're absolutely definitive in their opinions about certain players, and they didn't watch college football all year. That happens every year. But by the way, it really doesn't matter because the people that watch every single snap of every game and then watch the coaches film get it wrong 65% of the time, too.

But I, that always, that always cracks me up to hear, you know, a lot of media members that I know don't watch and aren't interested in college football. I always have strong opinions on players that I watched as a fan. You watch Saturday football too, and I watch it as much as I watch the NFL. That's why I'll have strong opinions on guys, which I'll be wrong more than half the time on. But out of that first round, I love Chase Young, I love Joe Burrow, I love Derek Brown, and I really love Justin Jefferson. You know, the Jordan love thing, I'm surprised Green Bay did it. I don't know why they did it.

I don't know why somebody wouldn't look at Aaron Rogers and think at 36, he's got a minimum of four years left. And at that point, if he's still playing at a high level, you've got the fifth year option on Love, but then he's going to have to start on that option year, and you're going to get to see what you have. I was surprised by that. Yeah, you know, in terms of like the mock draft,

you know, the ultimate real goal, you know, everybody focuses on getting the match. of the player and the team. You know, the main goal for me is trying to figure out what 32 players will be in the first round and then figure out fits sort of from there. And I had Jordan Love in the first round pretty much the whole time until the very end. And part of the reason I dropped him in the end, you know, there's some questions about where he would go, but also was like he's going to make it into the 20s, and when you look

at those teams that are picking there, of course, somebody could trade from outside of the first round back in, but looking at those teams, why would New Orleans or Green Bay, two teams that are contenders who, you know, Green Bay was in their Ennesty Championship game, and the Saints easily could have, you know, been in the Super Bowl, things were on their way. Why would they use a valuable first-round pick on a quarterback when they have needs that could help them, you know,

this guy could help them, you'll get there right now, and Green Bay did that, and I really wonder how that's going to go over there in Rodgers, but I also just think, man, they never want to get this guy help a receiver, and they had perfect opportunity you last night to do that or whatever, take any kind of position. And instead, I mean, look, I'm sure people probably made the exact same argument 15 years ago or whatever when they took Aaron Rogers. Of course, Rogers was projected to be like the first pick of the draft and slid all the

the way down to the 20-24. And that's a bit different than this. So, you know, I don't know, we'll see what Jordan would turn out to be. You obviously always need quarterback. You've got to be in the lookout. But, man, I would just think I'd want to do whatever. I could to maximize Aaron Rogers for the moment if I could. I forgot to make that distinction.

It's a really important one, is that Rogers was falling and Green Bay took Rogers with their pick. In this particular case, they traded up to take a guy that may not have gone in the first round, which essentially tells you how much they really like them. By the way, one other quick thing on the first round, I'm not surprised, and I think I told you this yesterday, that Swift was not the first running back taken. and I love Edwards-Hillair, and I love Dobbins too, and I think we're going to see a lot of running backs come off the board tonight in the second round. Yeah, I mean, I think the running back, you know, sort of what are you looking for in a running back

with determining which guy you like the best? And, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it's possible all four of the guys you just mentioned going the first round. In 2020, that's not happening. People don't value running backs in the same way. Kansas City is a particular unique circumstance. I mean, they got by last year with a guy who was, you know, off the scrap heap to be their go-to. I remember one mock draft I had Swift as the pick at 32, and then some executive was like, you know, why would Kansas City picker running back in the first round?

Look what they just did. They don't need to do that. And, you know, you can make that argument that maybe they shouldn't have. But this guy, you know, Edward Pallar is such a good fit for what they do and just makes it all the more challenging now to deal with that offense having a path catcher like that out of the backfield. So I totally get why Kansas City went for him and went that route. But, yeah, in general, it's just, you know, running backs are, you know, it's not what it used to be in terms of the value of them in the draft.

All right, two more, and I'll let you run. I got nowhere to go. Yeah, I know. In thinking about the Redskins, you know, defensive front, and all of the players they have there. And, you know, they're going to play, and Rivera talked about a rotation last night. Now that we know Chase Young is there,

what do you think's going to happen with Kerrigan? It's a great question. You know, to sort of go back to this whole reason about this whole left tackle, and that's why we're trying to stay, make sense. Like, I'm at this point of the opinion, yeah, look, if they had signed Amari Cooper, things would be different, but they didn't, and pretty much everything else they did it for agency,

is about depth and culture and building in the gaps, but not really overt needs. I mean, all their needs were still, look, all their needs that we talked about in the off season still exist. The left tackle, receiver, tight-ass, arguably cornered. I mean, nothing changed. Chase Young builds on something with the strength, but that wasn't necessarily a whole. And so I sort of might effectively like, well, what's the, okay, fine, you're building for the future. That's why I know the Trent Williams part of my unit, whatever. But that's also to me why the Carrigan part is a little confusing to me.

If we are talking culture, clearly that's a guy you want on your side, sets the tone, works hard. Until last year he played every single game of his career. So, you know, I totally get why you want that guy sort of being somebody could point to say, aha. See, young man, that's how you be a professional, that's how you go after. but that said, he makes good money, and you now have Montess Sweat, you have Chase Young, in this 4-3, you would imagine all three of those guys are going to probably play more 4-3-end than 4-3 outside linebacker, I would guess. By the way, you still have Ryan Anderson and some other guys there.

So I don't know. I mean, look, I'm sure if we ask this to Jack O'Reill and Rivera, they'd say, oh, it just means we have an incredible amount of options. And that all always sounds great, and that's fine, but from like a practical, matter. You know, how much do you really want Carrigan sort of, I don't think in the way, but like how much do you want him taking up space for sweat and young when realistically on the last

year of his deal, this is probably it for Ryan Carrigan in Washington, I would guess. I mean, maybe not, but, you know, he's not going to get paid the same amount of money again, so, you know, typically that means a guy leave. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, again, this is a fun problem to have, the Redskins have so many

guys down in the front seven that seem to be at a pretty good at the high level. and that'll be great for Del Rio and Rivera the scheme. But on the other hand, yeah, I just don't know if Chase Young comes in and is able to rip it off right away and sweat, who at the end of last year really started to pick it up, continues like, you know, if it feels like Kerry would be the third guy, and that's just a lot of money for the third guy. But, again, I get from a locker and a better perspective, why you would, you know, keep it going with him because he can help you another way.

I hear what you're saying, especially back to how you got into it, which is, you know, they didn't address any of their obvious needs. I would just, my response to that would be, you always have a need for a player of Chase Young's talent and potential. And, you know, the truth of the matter is, I like, I'm a big Montez-sweat fan. I was. I liked that they traded into the first round, you know,

traded this year's second to get them last year to move up to that spot. I think they have and had had, and they've had a need. They have a need and have had a need for a dominant pass rusher for decades now. And so I think they filled a need last night. Now, there are a lot of other needs that they haven't filled yet, and they've got, you know, the rest of this draft and still potentially opportunities in free agency to do that. But I would not, I was not in favor of trading back and getting a bunch of picks that may have filled more potential needs and passing on a player of his caliber. The Carrigan thing to me, yeah, it's a head scratcher, but I think there's room for them.

When people say, I was asked this morning, Ben, well, they got to trade somebody. And I said, no, they don't. They don't have to trade anybody. And he said, well, what if they do trade somebody? I said, if they trade somebody, it's going to be Duran Payne. And by the way, I don't want to see Duran Payne traded. I think he's got the most upside of anybody on that defensive front that isn't named Chase Young. But I think they're just going to bring all these guys in.

You know, you have that kind of rotation. And if it turns into an elite defensive front, they're going to be a better football team. Not to mention that the coaching alone defensively should make them better. Last thing, what do they do tonight? Give me a couple of predictions on what they do tonight. Well, you know, no second round pick at this point. They have the 66 overall picks. It's like the second pick in the third round.

You know, tight end remains a need as far as I'm concerned, and there's no tight end yet picked. It wouldn't even surprise me if there's no tight end picks in the second round, but logically something will one or two guys will go. And I mean they can be toward the front of the run there. 66. But, you know, after we heard from Rivera 10 days ago or so, I switched my thinking from that to that they would wait on tight end because the difference between what they can get in the third and fourth round, probably not that exciting. I think a guy like Devin

at C.C. from UCLA, somebody to watch in the fourth round. But that, but in the third round, like all this receiver gaps was talked about leading into the draft, you know, realistically, there'll be somebody there who slips that should have been picked in the second around based on projections and it's still there. And that, to me, that guy starts, right, likely, opposite Terry McCorn in week one. So it's not just a guy who would be, oh, this would be good down the line. Because he comes in right away and starts, and I think that would be attractive.

And I think I have been thinking, wait on tackle, you know, add a veteran somehow that Donald Penn, whatever, somebody like that to help you with Haskins more than a third round tackle with. So, for me, if it's not receiver, I think cornerback makes sense. Not only is there still a little bit of need this year, but beyond this year, you know, Darby and Moreau are both free agents.

And, you know, even with Kendall Fuller, I don't think they have a, you know, a truly dominant corner that they couldn't afford another one. So I think receiver corner and tight end are the three things I'd look at it, 66. And the other thing is, I guess, if some of the quarterback's flip, your James, your Jalen Hertz,

you know, maybe it's an opportunity to trade down and get some additional picks, which could be interesting. But if they stay, I feel like, boy, some receiver slide, that would be pretty enticing, I would think. I was going to ask you, actually, who's the player right now that teams are trying to jockey to get up into the early portion of the second round to take? Oh, good question. Well, you know, in terms of the guys who weren't picked, people were projecting in the first round, I mean, there's a few cornerbacks still there, Jalen Johnson from Utah, Trayvon Diggs, Alabama.

You know, there's still pretty good corner depth overall, but a bunch went yesterday. So you want one, you know, if you're toward the middle of the back of the second round, you may need to move up. There's not many edge pass rushers in this draft, and Gross Matos from Penn State fell out of the first round. Right. And, you know, I, Ezra Cleveland from Boise State, one of those guys that kind of blew up at the combined offensive tackle. Some people, some guys were not big fans, but, you know, others are, others are, and he could be, you know, what was it six, was it six tackles? Whatever, six tackles that went in the first round last night, and the thought was between Josh Jones and Ezra Cleveland.

After that, this thing really dropped. So if you want to tackle, you better go get one of those guys. So I think, you know, I think that could be another area. well, I don't know if anybody's clamoring to move up to get high and second to get Jacob Eastern or Fromm or Jail Lurge, but look, quarterbacks, last I checked, pretty important. So somebody has a hankering. That could be the way to go as well. Xavier McKinney's there, you know, the safety from BAM.

A lot of people had him in the first round. Yeah. You know, Coolly told me, yes, on Wednesday on the podcast, I forget if I told you this or not. He said, Cole Commets a first round pick, and I said, well, nobody's mocking him in the first round. And he said, I don't really care. I'm just telling you, he's better than T.J. Hawkinson from last year. He's better than Noah Fant from last year. And he's better than Irv Smith, who went in the second round last year.

He goes, I know the position. I value, I've watched all of them. And he goes, Cole Commit should be a first rounder. And I said, okay, well, I'll write down something less than a first down and hold you to it. And we said, you know, early second, I think is what we said. And he was comfortable with that. The funny thing is literally yesterday on Kuyper's final mock draft. I finally saw Cole Komet in the first round.

You know, he was up there to Green Bay at 30. So I think, you know, he's got a chance to go early in the second round. I'm going to throw out something that maybe you'll agree with because maybe you also said something about him recently. I think Jalen Hertz is a quarterback that teams really think highly of. I think he's the next quarterback to go in front of Fromm, in front of Eason, you know, anybody else that I'm forgetting there. And it wouldn't surprise me if somebody, you know, in that early portion of, you know, maybe the first five to ten picks of tonight's draft if Jalen Hertz goes.

Yeah, I mean, he was one of those 40, 50 players who I heard at some point say that there's a potential for a first round pick there. I always think of Jayle Hurts more as the Alabama quarterback than the Oklahoma quarterback, and I can't comprehend the Alabama quarterback is somebody that people are dying for, but obviously when people go to Oklahoma, things turn around under Lincoln Riley. So, you know, I mean, we'll see, you know, it kind of fits more of the modern air guys move, not just stuck there in the pocket, and that can be appealing to some teams as well. So, yeah, for sure.

I mean, that wouldn't be surprising, you know, four-quartered. quarterback's one in the first round, and it really is not that many teams that that either don't already have a clear starter or don't have a young guy in the pipeline that's going to be the guy. But, you know, Pittsburgh, Ben Rothesberger, you have to wonder what, what's their plan? I mean, even when we just discussed, like, why do you draft the quarterback when you have Aaron Rogers? I don't know if I feel the same where Rathesberger has been dealing with injuries. I wonder if the wheels are potentially about to come off. Hopefully not, but, you know, you kind of wonder they need more of an

urgent backup plan, then Green Bay. So that could be a team. I don't know if Pittsburgh has had the place that's going to trade up, but I could see them taking a quarterback in the second round. Did Trey Burton get picked up by anybody? I was just thinking about the Redskins. Oh, the Colts picked him up. Okay.

All right. Thanks for doing this. Much appreciated. And I will talk to you probably next week at some point. Have a good weekend. And thank you. Appreciate. I thank you for all the run.

It's been fun the last few weeks on the radio. even at the ungodly hour at 8 in the morning. But I love when people say that the ungodly hour of 8 a.m. My day's half over, basically. I've been up since 3.30. But no, you know, it benefited me more than it did you. So I'm appreciative. Thanks so much.

Have a good weekend. Thanks, man. All right. Second and third round tonight. The Redskins, most of you know, have a third rounder. They don't have a second rounder. Remember, they dealt that to Indianapolis as part of their. trade that got him into the first round at the end of the first round last year to take Montez

sweat. So right now, unless they make some deal, they have a third rounder tonight. They have two fourth rounders tonight. So three picks tonight. And then they've got a fifth rounder and two sevenths after that to finish up the draft on Saturday. In terms of Trent Williams, just to repeat, I think he'll get traded this weekend. If he does, he does. doesn't. I think the chances on Monday that we're having a conversation about him coming back are significant conversations about that. Minnesota would be the team I'd lean towards. They have all those picks. They have 12 picks left in this draft. I think Denver's a team that could potentially make a deal for him as well. As far as players, you know, that the Redskins may have a chance

to get at 66, Ben mentioned. Ben mentioned. wide receiver in the depth of wide receiver, tight end. Certainly if Cole come at the Notre Dame receiver, if Cooley's wrong and he doesn't get picked in the second round and he's sitting there at the beginning of the third, that would be a huge win for the Redskins to be able to add a player of his caliber. Cooley likes Troutman from Dayton. He also liked to Cizzie a little bit from UCLA, like the kid from Missouri as well. And Charlie Warner is the guy that he's been all over.

He had a chance to coach him from Georgia. Warner's really a very late round pick and would be a Saturday pick more than anything. But that's a guy to keep an eye on at that position. The wide receivers, we're going to see a run on them in the second half. Second round. I can't imagine that guys like Higgins and Pittman and KJ Hamler and Claypool aren't taken in the second round. You know, Chenult Jr. from Colorado, Denzel Mims, who has, at multiple points over the last couple of months.

Chanel Jr., too, have been mocked in the first round. I think all those guys end up going in the second round. The Redskins might have an opportunity in the third round, though, to get a guy that Fred Smoot told me is going to be a star. Antonio Gandy Golden from Liberty. It's possible they could go Ohio State with another former Haskins receiver and draft KJ Hill, who is probably going to be there in the third round. Brian Edwards at one point.

There's some injuries there, but a lot of people liked him. I like, in addition to Hamler, who I really like, who is off the board. Most of you know I really like Tyler Johnson from Minnesota, and I think he would be available potentially in the fourth round for the Redskins. Colin Johnson out of Texas is a huge receiver at 6566, and Devin Duvernay is more of a top-end speed guy. of Texas. They're both projected there. Chase Claypool, haven't mentioned him from Notre Dame, another big target. Some people like him as well. I wouldn't be, I'd be surprised if he were around

at 66. Corners, you know, Ben was mentioning some of the corners. I think we're going to see several of those off the board in the second round, Jalen Johnson from Utah, probably Trayvon Diggs. Here's a guy potentially that could be there in the third round is Bryce Hall, a bigger-sized corner, you know, a team captain, you know, a multiple year starter and a really good defensive scheme at UVA. You know, he's a possibility, you know, with that pick in the third round. You know, if the Redskins were still thinking safety, there's a guy Jeremy Chin at a southern Illinois that could be there, Kyle Dugger out of a small school, Lenore Rhine. I'd be surprised if Grant Delpit doesn't get picked in the second round.

He was a projected first rounder a year ago. I do think McKinney and Winfield will be off the board pretty quickly in the second round. Inside linebacker is a position that isn't necessarily super deep, but the Redskins could be looking at somebody there. And obviously the tackles, you know. Ben mentioned it. Cleveland probably going to go in the second round. you know, guy like Jones out of Houston, probably the same thing. I've heard a lot of good things about what people think about Prince Tago from Auburn and the possibility that he could be there in the third round.

But personally, I think that best player on the board, as long as it's not a quarterback or a defensive lineman, is the way that the Redskins will go and should go. at number 66 overall. You know, they need great players. They don't need to reach for a player to fill a need the rest of this draft. I don't feel that way anyway. Obviously, you're not going to more likely than not take a quarterback, you know, at this point in the draft.

And defensive linemen, you know, you can never have enough, but they got a lot right now. So I would think third round tonight, if that's their only pick. and then the two fourth rounders, the fifth rounder, the two sevenths on tomorrow. If they only make one pick tonight, the third rounder, I would bet that it's a wide receiver, a tight end, or a corner. All right. If there is big news, you know, a big trade or a Trent Williams trade that, you know, is significant, I might do a show over the weekend tomorrow.

More likely than not, though, we'll just be back. on Monday and we'll recap everything they did in the draft over the weekend tonight and Saturday as well. Thanks. Stay safe. Stay well. Enjoy the weekend back on Monday.