The Kevin Sheehan Show - Forbes & More Fred!

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

Kevin with Fred Smoot today on Washington's selection of Emmanuel Forbes in last night's first-round of the NFL Draft. Smoot weighed in on the rest of the first round as well including the picks he liked and the one he didn't like. Before Smoot, Kevin recapped the pick, looked ahead to tonight's 2nd and 3rd rounds, and weighed in on the Washington Post story that indicated where the sale of the team currently stands.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. With the 16th pick in the 2023 NFL draft, the Washington commanders select Emmanuel Forbes, defensive back Mississippi State.

So I think it's pretty safe to assume that all of you who are listening to this podcast know by now that Washington selected Emmanuel Ford. Cornerback, Mississippi State, first round in the NFL draft last night, as Roger Goodell announced. And I think it's pretty safe to assume that the significant majority of you also know, especially if you've been listening to this podcast over the last couple of weeks, that Emmanuel Forbes had 14 career interceptions at Mississippi State, six of which he returned for touchdowns, which is an NCAA record. His six-pick-sixes in his college career is an NCAA record. However, I would bet that most of you don't know that Emmanuel Forbes in high school had eight defensive touchdowns, eight defensive touchdowns in high school for Emmanuel Forbes. Now, look, I know high school coaches put their best athletes on offense, defense, return game, but he had eight

defensive touchdowns in high school. This guy's had a nose for the ball for a long time now. And I know that if you've been listening to this podcast in recent days, you know how happy I was that they picked Emmanuel Forbes last night. Now, I did not know and did not guess that Christian Gonzales would be on the board at 16. I'll give you my thoughts on that in a moment. But I love this pick. I really love this pick. And you know who else loves this pick? My guest from two days ago, Fred Smoot, loves this pick. And guess what? Fred Smoot is going to be back on the show today. I hesitated asking him because he was on two days ago. But when Fred's right about something, he is available. And that is our good fortune.

today. 25 minutes coming up with Fred Smoot, not only on the pick and how Emmanuel Forbes will fit in. Is he going to play on the outside? Is he going to play on the inside? Smoot's got a lot of thoughts on that. And plus, we'll talk about just the overall first round of the NFL draft. But let me give you my thoughts on the selection of Emmanuel Forbes. And before we get to that, let me just say something, and I did this on radio this morning, and some of you were outraged by it. I think one of the things that I have liked about Ron Rivera from the jump, and I have been much more critical of Ron Rivera over the last year, and I really do believe that more likely than not, he is going to be coaching his final season in the NFL in this upcoming 2023 season.

But one of the things that I've been complimentary about when it's come to Ron, you know, coach-centric Ron, and I feel the same way about Martin Mayhew and about Marty Herney and Eric Stokes and Gribble and all of the staff there. I think that they have changed the culture of the football roster and of the football locker room. I actually think like Vinnie Serato once said, our good friend Vinnie once said, they have a plan, they know what they're doing. And I think they've had a plan. Now, it doesn't mean that they've gotten everything right, you know, and those of you that are going to say stop already, okay, look at the guy's win-loss record. That's a mic drop right there. I understand, and I'm not complimenting him right now as a head coach. but I know that when Ron Rivera took this job, because he talked about it, he said,

we've got to change the culture of this organization. Now, he didn't have control over the culture of the organization, but he did have control, and I think maybe more control than we even thought he would have, over the culture of the football team and the football locker room. You know, part of the job, I'm not. sure he had hoped to impact other areas of the organization. But there was a risk when he took this job, obviously like there was with anybody that takes a job in Washington. And the risk is the owner. So he knew what he was getting into with the owner, but I think he felt like

if he were given the opportunity to control at least the football side, that he could make some headway as far as the culture of the football team goes. He was a never going to be able to change the fact that his boss was incompetent and that there might even be kind of a continued level of incompetence on the non-football side of the building. But for him, the part that he could control, or at least he thought he could, and I think he's done a pretty good job with, and I just want to pay him, I guess, just a compliment on this, is that he was going to build the roster with the kind of football players that he believes in, that he believed in Carolina. And those players that he tries to find are good football players, of course,

but they're adults. They're accountable. They're coachable. And they're professionals. And he hasn't gotten, you know, all of them right. I understand that. But he's also kind of proven that when he's made a mistake, he moves on, you know, without doubling down on that mistake. I mean, if you want to assume that Dwayne Haskins was a mistake for him to commit to the owner, that he'd give him a chance rather than focus on the draft of 2020 where they had the number two pick in the draft and could have selected Tua or Justin Herbert, that's a lot of revisionist history because I'm not going to change, I'm not going to try to, you know, make it seem that I was all in on a quarterback. I wasn't.

I was all in on Chase Young. But he moved on from Dwayne quickly. You know, God rest his soul. But once he realized that he was going to lose the locker room, he cut bait. He cut bait with William Jackson. Look, he may be cutting bait right now with Chase Young. I hope that's not the case. I hope it turns out to be better than we think.

But he wants a certain overall character profile of the players in his locker room. And those are guys like Terry McLaren and John Allen, and you know the list. And they have rewarded those players, and they've tried to find players that fit that character profile, that fit into a locker room. And I think they've done a pretty good job. So anyway, I'm going to give him and his group credit for that. And I think last night's selection, after watching a lot of video over the last couple of days, and then a lot of video last night of different interviews that were, Recent and older, I think they've got another high character player who's also pretty damn good.

Now, on the player, he's 166 pounds at the actual combine. Now, I did learn over the last hour and a half that he did an interview a couple of months ago with the NFL network, where he said that he played last year pretty much at 174 pounds. I'm not going to get into the quibbling over the weight. He weighed in at 166, but it sounds like that that may be a number that's low for him based on where he was playing last year and maybe what his goal is when he gets to the NFL. But that is the criticism of Emmanuel Forbes. That's the knock.

That's it. That's the list. He is too slight. Now he's not small. 6-1, all right? He is also super long. And by the way, as should be the case with any player that intends on playing in the NFL at 166 pounds, we'll call it that, you better be fast. He ran 435 at the combine. That's really fast. So this is a guy that, yeah, he might be skinny. He might have a slight frame, but he is tall, he is long, he's got a sizable wingspan, he is smart, he is instinctive,

he has great feel and anticipation. In fact, that part of his game is off the charts. He also comes out of a system at Mississippi State where they played that 335. Mike Leach was the head coach. I mean, all of those guys went through a hell of a lot. By the way, he played in their bowl game. They beat Illinois in their bowl game 19 to 10. And he actually talked about it at some point after the season that he was one of those players that was considering not playing in the bowl game, you know, as to not risk injury.

But when Mike Leach suddenly passed away. And, man, guys like Emmanuel Forbes really went through something awful when Mike Leach suddenly passed away in December. but he played in that bowl game and a lot of the Mississippi State players played in that bowl game and they said that they played in that bowl game to honor Mike Leach and he at one point said

I played in that bowl game so I could get coach one more W and get him into the Hall of Fame. But the system that he's been playing in under Zach Arnett who is now the head coach but was the defensive coordinator is that college 335 system which you see everywhere in college these days. And you've got five DBs out there.

And there's a lot of zone. There's man, and there's a lot of zone matching, which is what you get in Washington. He played a lot of the same kinds of defenses in college, which makes him a really good scheme fit in Washington. You know, he is a guy that when he's got eyes on quarterback, in zone or in zone matching, Zone matching is essentially that you've got a zone, you take a zone drop pre-snap, but you have an area in which when you get a receiver that runs a route into your area, do you then pick them up man-to-man and you match?

And so, you know, he understands and can anticipate those routes and those route combinations. He sees things. His special ability is really seeing things in advance, you know, being one step ahead, which is one of the reasons. You know, he anticipated a bubble screen, picked it off, and ran it back against Will Levis, you know, in a game against Kentucky this year. But I think this scheme fit is a really good fit for this player. I don't think Joey Porter, Jr., and I think one of the reasons I think I mentioned yesterday to Tommy, that I did not think based on what I had heard that Joey Porter Jr. was even a possibility for them. And by the way, Joey Porter Jr. didn't even get selected in the first round. is that they weren't necessarily looking for, you know, guys that had excelled and played primarily press man coverage,

even though Forbes can play press man coverage. And by the way, as an outside guy with that size and that length, you know, in that speed, I think he'll be pretty good as an outside corner if that's where they see them. I'm not sure where they're going to play them. It's one of the questions I'll ask Smoot. I would assume he's an outside guy, but if he's an outside guy, then who's your slot guy? Is it St. Juice or is it Fuller? It might be St. Juice.

Remember, they tried him there when Jackson was on the outside, and then when Jackson left, they put St. Juice back on the outside. I think St. Juice at 6.3 looks good on the outside. He's not the ball hawk that Forbes is. We know that Fuller here, the first go-round, was an outstanding slot corner. By the way, I think Fuller is also a good playmaker. But where he ends up playing, I don't know. Rivera and Mayhew didn't commit to any of that. But I will ask Fred Smoot about where he sees Forbes playing in this defense.

Look, Washington was an excellent defensive team last year. You know, ninth overall in Football Outsiders DVOA metric, I felt like I was watching when I watched, I didn't need the statistical, you know, advance numbers to tell me that I felt like I was watching a top 10 defense. I didn't feel like I was watching a top 4 or 5 defense, but certainly a top 10 defense that had a chance to get better. But the one part of the defense, and we've talked about this for a few years, that they did not excel in takeaways. They were 26th last year in takeaways, 24th the year before. So bottom quarter of the league for two straight years and takeaways. They're hoping that Forbes changes that.

You know, with the strength of the football team being that front four, they added to not only depth, they added to, you know, among the highest snap counts on defense with Forbes. He's going to play a lot, and I think a lot right away. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't because they've got kind of a need to have him out there on the field. and I think that the transition for him, and Rivera talked about this a little bit last night, won't be super difficult. Jackson had a real difficult time as a professional, and they made a mistake there. They were getting a man corner, and they wanted to play more zone and more zone match.

But I don't know, my guess is that we'll see a guy on the field that will impact the takeaway numbers next year. You know, Forrest has some ball hawk ability. Fuller does, but none of these guys is at Forbes level. I don't think they are. You know, the weight is only a concern if you didn't watch him play in the SEC and stay healthy in the SEC and play every game. He's a willing tackler also. You know, he may not come up and knock you to the ground consistently,

but he comes up and he hits you and he'll drive you towards the sidelines or he'll hold you up until he gets more help. He's a willing tackler. And I think, you know, based on the tape, I think he's a physical guy for his size. Now, you know, if he ends up getting hurt or if he ends up being a big liability in the run game, then those of you that don't like the pick

will be able to say, you know, I told you so. And look, all of this is just, it's fun, it's conversation about football in late April into early May. But I tweeted this out last night. I tweeted out, where is it? As the draft was getting ready to start, I tweeted out, I'm a big fan of tonight.

I like certain players more than others, and I tweeted out, Emmanuel Forbes, E Forbes, please, because this was the guy that I really wanted, as you all know if you listened to the podcast recently. But roughly two-thirds of the podcast, players picked won't be meaningful contributors within three years. Those are the numbers. You know, 66% roughly of the players picked last night, tonight, and tomorrow won't be meaningful contributors within three years. Even teams who have gotten much better at this, teams have gotten much better

at drafting, you know, using whatever kinds of advanced information is out there, I know they've gotten better at the psychology part. You know, the interview part with these players is so important, and they've gotten much better at looking for the right things and profiling psychologically the players in the right way and asking the right questions. But they have the most information, and even they get it wrong two-thirds of the time. So how can we be expected to do much better? I'm excited about the pick. I love the pick. I love the pick. I love the player. I think it's a perfect scheme fit.

I think it fills a need. Now, as far as Gonzalez, Christian Gonzalez falling to that spot, I have mentioned many times leading up to the draft that of the top two corners that were the supposed top two corners, Devin Wetherspoon and Christian Gonzalez, that I actually liked Gonzalez more. Witherspoon went number five overall. I just thought Gonzalez looked so smooth for a guy that was that big. He was six, one and a half and super long, and he just was so smooth. But Forbes is a better playmaker.

So, you know, how did I feel last night when Gonzalez kept slipping? Well, my first reaction was, why is he slipping? You know, why are teams passing on the perceived second-best corner? in the draft. You know, like Detroit took a running back at 12. I thought Detroit needed a corner. I thought there was certainly a chance that you could get, you know, Pittsburgh who traded up for Broderick Jones,

interestingly enough, to take a corner. But, yeah, you know, at five overall, Seattle took Witherspoon, and there wasn't another corner taken until Forbes was taken at 16. What did I think at that point? I thought that something must be up with Christian Gonzalez. All the stuff that we don't know about may be scared teams off. Now, somebody tweeted me that they heard that Washington specifically had an issue with Gonzalez's game against Georgia.

If you remember, Labor Day weekend season opener in the Georgia Dome. Georgia beat Oregon 49 to 3. everybody for Oregon had a problem that day. Everybody did. They couldn't score and they couldn't stop Georgia. I mean, it was similar to the TCU National Championship game. But I was fine at 16 if they had picked Gonzalez and I was fine if they had picked Forbes. I was hoping for Forbes because I said yesterday that that was the guy I wanted at 16, but I assumed Gonzalez would be gone. But I don't have a problem with them taking Forbes over Gonzalez. You know, this is the guy they, they, loved. And for those of you that say, did they scout Gonzalez because maybe they didn't expect them to be there? Yeah, I think when it comes to positions of need, they scouted everybody.

They knew what they wanted. I have no idea what they thought of Witherspoon. But there was momentum on Forbes around the league. And there was some indication, not a lot, but some indication that there was some interest there from Washington. You know, was it too early? to take them? I don't think so. I know a lot of people felt like it was too early to take Dotson last year at 16. And remember, I had a good sense that there was some interest in Dotson. I did not know that about Forbes. I liked Forbes. And I was thrilled that Fred Smoot loved Forbes, but I did not know that they liked them. But there was some indication that, you know, there was some momentum building for Forbes, you know, higher up in the first round. Last year, I knew that they liked them. But there was some momentum building. I was some momentum building for Forbes, you know, higher up in the first round. Last year, I knew that they liked Dotson.

Now, they liked London more. And I think they would have taken London or cross. When they traded back, Dotson was one of those guys, and Dotson was their number one guy if they traded back. That's the guy they wanted. And they got him. And people said, well, it was too early. He was projected late first round.

I would not get into some of these mock drafts people. These teams, you know, are not mock drafters. They're evaluating to a level that no mock drafter really is, and they sit in on the most important part of the evaluation, which are the interviews and the discussions and the conversations with coaches and friends and teachers and whatever it is. You know, I don't think a lot of people thought that Anthony Richardson was going to go number four last night or that Will Levis was going to not get picked in the first round.

I'm not sure many people saw Jemir Gibbs getting picked at 12 overall. I think that's actually an error by Detroit. I think they could have gotten them at 18 with their second first round pick, and they could have gotten a corner maybe at 12. They ended up taking Jack Campbell. I know Smoot's going to be thrilled about Campbell, because Campbell's one of the guys that he said, and he called one of his unicorns in the draft.

But Campbell was like a projected second rounder. But here's what you don't know, and this was the case last year with Dotson. You don't know who's lurking and loves a player as much as you've fallen in love with a player. It's one thing to draft a guy in the first round that has like a projected fifth round that, you know, great on him. But this has become, you know, a scheme fit, need-based, you know, draft league more than best available player, which it used to be much more about.

teams are less willing to take the big risks on character, even though if you think that Jalen Carter's got character, Philadelphia moved up to take him. And look, they have the ability to do that. They were in the Super Bowl last year, and they're loaded on defense. And if Jalen Carter turns out to be the right guy, character-wise, well, then Howie Roseman just schooled the rest of the league.

And then they got another Georgia player at the end of the first round in Nolan Smith. Amazing. But as far as him being overdrafted there, I didn't see it that way with Dotson. I mean, what are we talking about? Maybe six or seven spots. And you're not going to get another swing at him because your next pick is at 47. So where does Forbes drop if you don't take him at 16? I know he visited New England.

I know that he had a very good visit with Belichick in New England. Maybe Belichick takes him instead of Gonzalez at 16. maybe Detroit at 18 with Forbes on the board takes him instead of Campbell. You know, and Martin Mayhew did say that there was not a tradeback opportunity like there was last year. You know, I liked Gonzalez. I did, but I liked Forbes a lot too. I love the pick. I don't think that they went wrong in this pick. I feel very much about this pick the way I felt about Jahan Dotson and didn't know enough about Jamin Davis. To me,

Jamie Davis seems like the one that they may have overdrafted. Chase Young, they did not overdraft, all right, because if they didn't take him, he wasn't going to last any longer. He was going to go with the next pick. But, yeah, good job by them last night. Now, as far as what's next, they've got 47 and 97. They've got their second round pick and third round pick tonight. I think they're going to be looking for offensive line.

Now, all of the tackles were gone. Let me go back to that. I do believe that if Darnell Wright had fallen to 16, the tackle from Tennessee, I do believe that he would have been their first, that that would have been the first choice. That Wright was the guy that they had highest rated on the guys that could be available for them at 16. but he went to Chicago at number 10. I also don't know how they felt about Broderick Jones, which was quite the move by Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh traded with New England, got in front of the Jets who were clearly in the market for an offensive tackle, and Brodrick Jones was headed towards them, and the Steelers cut them off at the pass, forcing the Jets to draft a defensive player and Will McDonald, who a lot of people thought was a reach, but Kuiper loved.

Kuiper, by the way, loved the Forbes pick as well. By the way, you know, the Jets who have not been a great organization, they were way too transparent in the desire for an offensive lineman. And you've got to be careful with that, you know, because Pittsburgh knew that the Jets were eyeballing the last really good tackle. Because at that point, Paris Johnson had already gone, Skrotsky had already gone and you had had who was the other tackle. Paris Johnson, Darnell Wright. Darnell Wright and Skronsky had already gone,

leaving Broderick Jones as the last tackle that was really first round worthy. You know, after that, the guy that Tommy predicted Anton Harrison, who I thought would have been a major reach at 16, did get selected at the end of the first round. And some of the draft guys thought that was a bit of a reach, but whatever. You know, the top four guys were clear. And so, you know, the Jets made it obvious that tackle was a priority. And you can't do that because Pittsburgh jumped in front of the Jets in a trade with New England because they knew that the last tackle elite tackle or top half of the first round tackle, Broderick Jones, was sitting there and the Jets were going to take him. And, you know, the Steelers took him. about tonight. So tonight, I think, is about the offensive line, whether it's at 47 or 97,

their second and third round picks respectively. They're going to come away, I would be surprised if they don't, with an offensive lineman. Now, with the best four tackles in the draft gone before they ever selected, and I do think that they would have selected Darnell Wright had he dropped to 16, but he didn't. He got picked by the Bears at number 10. The tackles are, for the most part, gone. The volume of kind of second, third round graded linemen or interior lineman. Now, there are a couple of tackles. I think they have a desire to draft Matthew Bergeron from Syracuse, but I don't think he's going to be there at 47. But if he's there at 47, would not shock me at all if Matthew Bergeron is the pick. Big DeWan Jones from Ohio State, you know, the 6-8-375-pound kid who's just a massive

run-blocking stud. It's possible he could be there at 47. A versatile guy like Cody Mock from North Dakota State could be there. But really the depth in the second and third round, interior guys, some of whom have flexibility, Osiris Torrance, Florida, Steve Avila, TCU are some of the names to look for. But I would imagine they are going to target an offensive guard at 47. And if you're asking, Sheehan, why don't you do what you did yesterday with the player that you would like them to pick and the player you think they will pick? All right, I think they will pick Osiris Torrance, Florida Guard.

That's my guess. Again, Bergeron, if he made it to 47, could be the pick. I also think it's interesting if Brian Branch, who some people thought could be picked by Washington in the first round. He didn't get picked in the first round, the safety. Brian Branch from Alabama, I wonder if he were available at 47 if they'd go defense again. But I'll guess Osiris Torrance. Now, in terms of the players that I'd love to see them select tonight, I really like Sam Leporta, the tight end from Iowa.

You know, in the line of Hawkinson, Kittle, Fant, all of these Iowa tight ends, he played on the worst offensive team in America last year in Iowa's offense. It was terrible. But Leporta is like 6.3, 250, and he can really run routes. I mean, he is a great kind of coolie-esque route runner. You know, kind of the same kind of a build, too. I think that this is a guy that is going to be an effective tight end at the next level. And I think they've got a need for it, but they don't.

They don't think they have a need for tight end. They think they're fine with Logan Thomas. And by the way, if Logan Thomas was just not 100% health-wise last year, and that was a reason for him being a very inconsistent at best blocker, and they have a lot of faith that at 31 years old, he's going to bounce back and be, you know, a year and a half removed from the injury, and he's going to be good to go like he was in 2020 or 2021 before he got hurt. I'm all for it. I was a Logan Thomas fan.

I like 88, Rogers. You know, Bates is a good blocker. And obviously, Cole Turner, you know, they have some faith in. But, man, if Leporta was there at 47, I would seriously consider it. They may get to the third round and a guy like Tucker Kraft from South Dakota State could be there. I don't know. The tight ends, you know, which I think are easier positions for people like us to evaluate. Offensive line hard for us to evaluate.

but like Leporta, you can kind of see it and project. And he comes from almost tight end university, Iowa City, Iowa. So those are my guesses. Osiris Torrance is the guess. I'd love Leporta. Now, in terms of Will Levis or Hendon Hooker, I don't know where Levis will go, but I'm not a fan of Levis, as you know. I would not have taken Levis at 16.

I would not have taken Hooker at 16. I know that they liked and were impressed by Hooker. I think everybody was impressed by Hooker. So I will say what I said a week and a half ago, and that is if Hendon Hooker is available at 47, I think he would be very high on their board. Now, they said last night that they did not consider Levis or Hooker at 16, and I'm glad they didn't.

But the issue is whether or not they would consider Hooker at 47. So the problem with Hooker, I've said this before, I may have said it already on this show. Josh Heppel's one side of the field, one read, you know, offense. Again, they've got to project that this guy can stand back in the pocket and process and read the field. He's got a gun. He's got size. CBS Sports mocked him to Washington at 47 earlier today.

I would be surprised, but I wouldn't be disappointed if they took Hooker, if they really liked him at 47. but I'm expecting an offensive lineman, more likely than not, a guard with some position flexibility. All right, before we get to Smoot, I'm going to take five minutes and update you on the ownership information from yesterday because I think it's important something that Mark Maskey wrote in his Washington Post story this morning. We'll get to that, and then we'll get to Smoot after that, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Well, just for the most part, it was the football decision that we made. And for the most part, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, we want to take care of our own.

We want to go out and we want them to play well. And if that's what happens, then we have a really good problem to have. And it's something that we'll have to work through, you know, once we know where everything is. That was Ron Rivera answering a question because it was the first time he was available to answer a question about not picking up the fifth-year option on Chase Young. And you heard him, you know, basically, I think, do the right thing, which is not get into specifics about why they're not picking up the fifth option, but saying it would be a really good problem to have if he goes out there and plays well because

they want him to play well. There was a follow-up question about whether or not the injury had anything to do with it, and he kind of ducked that as well. He mentioned, you know, the last year and a half, the history is there with the injury, and you've got to take that into consideration. But, you know, they want to see him do what Duran did last year. And then, you know, if that happens, then, you know, they'll go from there. Bottom line is, Chase Young's season in 2023 isn't going to be his last opportunity, that's for sure. There's too much talent there, and people will continue to take chances on Chase Young if he's not in a Washington uniform in 2024. But they're going to be the kinds of chances that you see when teams are unsure about players, like, you know,

one-year deals that are heavily incentive-laden. I'm not saying that that'll be the first deal he'll sign. He'll get a decent deal, you know, if he's gone from here in free agency, not the big deal that I'm sure, you know, appeared to be almost a certainty after his rookie year. but look, you know, you don't have second round, you don't have second picks in the draft, excuse me, you know, go without having their fifth year option picked up or extended. One of the other typically happens. The only one that it hasn't happened for is Mitch Trubisky in Chicago.

And then Jeff Okuda in the same draft with Chase Young, who was number three overall, did get traded for peanuts. And by the way, the reporting out there about Chase Young, and trade viability is that there just aren't many interested parties right now in Chey Chung. And the team's not going to take, you know, a conditional fourth or fifth rounder for Chase Young. They shouldn't.

You can't give up on that kind of talent. But this is, you know, this is it for him here in Washington. I mean, I say that. There's going to be a whole new group more likely than not this time next year. But this is not about just the injury as we have talked. about for a while now. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they will allow you to wager your deposit amount just one time and then be eligible to cash out right away. Most books make you wager the deposit amount multiple times before you're

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You won't pay any interest if you finance your purchase until the year 2028. Plus, buy two, get too free with Window Nation. You can't beat the company. You can't beat the product. You can't beat the people. 86690 Nation or Window Nation. So there was, I think front office sports had a story yesterday. But I'm going to take from the Mark Maskey story in the Washington Post.

It started yesterday with the commissioner during the draft interview with Mike Greenberg being asked about the sale of the Washington commanders. And he said, quote, progress is being made. We're communicating with the team. They're working obviously on the transaction. That progress will hopefully lead to them being comfortable to announce some type of transaction. probably by the middle of May or late May, closed quote. Just so you know, key dates, May 10th is the Finance Committee meeting. That's not with all the owners.

That's just with the owners and the people on the Finance Committee. And then all of the owners get together May 22nd through the 24th in Minneapolis. So the commissioner seems pretty bullish on this wrapping up by the end of next month. And I, you know, I feel like that that's going to happen. I do. But Masky wrote a couple of things in his story that to me explain, I'm not going to use the word bottleneck like I used on radio this morning, but explained a little bit of where we are right now,

which is at least just a small bump in the road between the time that the Harris bid was picked by Snyder. and us getting, I say us, those people involved getting to the actual closing of the sale. So Maskey wrote, Harris's group reached an unsigned non-exclusive agreement with Snyder, three people with direct knowledge of the sale process said earlier this month. Remember, that's, you know, now two weeks ago, when we had that big news that Josh Harris was, had made the bid for $5.8 billion, up to $6.05 billion with $250 million plus an escrow or whatever, and that he was going to become the new owner. But it was this non-exclusive negotiating period. So unsigned non-exclusive agreement, Maskey reports, according to three people with direct knowledge.

Then Maske writes, The informal review found only minor issues that the Harris's group must resolve with, by the way, the bid that they had submitted, not for formal ratification, but as a preliminary review of their bid. Remember, it was reported that Harris actually had to send the bid to the league that Snyder is kind of out of it in terms of communicating with owners. And there were minor issues, nothing major. And Maski writes, leaving the league and team owners confident that the deal would be approved. And then he writes, if other obstacles related to the sale, can be overcome, a person with direct knowledge of the NFL's inner workings said recently. That person said that Harris's purchase of the commanders almost certainly will be ratified. If the deal and the issues related to indemnification and the NFL's second investigation of Snyder and the team can be resolved to the owner's satisfaction.

And then he's got a quote from someone in the know, quote, The league is doing their work, that's normal, there are small holes in the Harris deal, they'll get that part done. It won't be a problem. The issue is those other things, closed quote. So going back to what he wrote, issues related to indemnification and the NFL's second investigation of Snyder.

So this is the bump in the road. This is why we are waiting for something more official, something that's signed, something that's ratified for the lack of a better description, something that it becomes more binding, something that isn't non-exclusive anymore. We are waiting for Snyder and the League to resolve their issues, some of which may deal with the Mary Joe White investigation, aka the NFL's second investigation. I think personally that Snyder, first of all, let me just draw the picture of. Harris is fine with the league. Harris is fine with Snyder. The issue right now, if there is one, and it's probably just a minor bump, is Snyder and the league. And Snyder probably views his current situation, which is a situation he doesn't want to be involved in.

He doesn't want to sell the team. He's kind of being forced to sell the team. So in the league he knows wants him to sell the team. Everybody wants him to sell the team. He probably views this situation as a situation that has leverage to it. Like he's going to get everything he can get on the way out. And maybe that includes shutting down the transparent disclosure of what Mary Joe White investigated and found. Maybe it has to do with indemnification. Like you aren't coming after me for anything after I'm gone. And by the way, I might want to come after you for some things, and you're not going to be able to stop that. So the second investigation line is obviously the interesting part of that versus the indemnification. Because, you know, you kind of draw a straight line connecting that dot to, this is still non-exclusive. It's still unsigned. It's still kind of in that mode of not exactly ready to go to the finance committee or ready to go to the rest of the owners for a vote.

And it's Snyder perhaps saying, I'm, you know, I'm not doing this deal until you promise me that nothing about the Mary Joe White investigation comes out or that you can't pursue me for anything related to the Mary Joe White investigation. I don't know what it is specifically. I have no idea. But that's kind of where we are right now. I think Maskey had some interesting details that weren't necessarily the headline. The headline was what Goodell said about the time table. But to me, you know, deeper into his story is where we kind of get to why it's been not on hold, but seems to have slowed down here since the news broke two weeks ago that Harris was going to be the owner.

I still think it's Harris. It's nobody else. Nobody else is going to buy this team. It's going to be Josh Harris. Do I think there's even a one-tenth of one-tenth of one-year-old. percent chance that Snyder hangs on until the league gives him something that they're not willing to give him. Nah.

Eventually, he'll probably give in and take the $6 billion. But I think he's trying to get as much as he can on the way out. That would be my guess. Hey, one other real quick thing before we get to Smoot, congratulations to Mike Loxley. You got a huge contract extension. Thrilled for Mike Loxley, one of the real quality people and quality coaches in town. Yeah, there are games in which I'm screaming at the TV saying way too many penalties, way too many penalties. But it's tough being the head coach at Maryland for football these days when you've been in the Big Ten East.

You know, Ralph Regian didn't have to face that. Bobby Ross didn't have to face that. And that'll change soon enough when USC and UCLA come into the league. But he's going to be paid $5.5 million in 2023. He gets a $300,000 raise in each subsequent year. And if Maryland wins at least seven games this upcoming season, another year is added at $7 million per year in 2028. Good for Mike Loxley. The four highest paid coaches in the Big Ten, by the way, earned in excess of $8.1 million, led by Michigan State's Mel Tucker, who got that huge extension after that first really strong year at $9.5 million per.

year. But I like Mike Loxley a lot. I'm rooting for him so much. And, you know, he's gotten talent, that's for sure. And this upcoming season, I told you last year before the season started, that it had a chance to be his best year and the best year in Maryland football in a long time. Well, it's that again this year, plus some. He's got Leah Tunga Bailoa coming back. He's got some real talent, and the Terps should be a team that can win seven or eight games in 2023. All right, Fred Smoot next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, as promised, jumping on with us right now is the guy that called it the other day, wanted it the other day.

I felt the same way, by the way. I really loved the player, and I was thrilled when you said it the other day that he was one of your five unicorns. And then, by the way, I think you gave me like six or seven unicorns, which is fine. There were a lot of players that you liked. But what was your reaction last night when they selected Emmanuel Forbes? I was ecstatic. I lost it. I think they made a meme from me losing it.

It was the right pick. Like sometimes people got to understand. It's not what pick makes everybody else feel like you make the right pick? It's the pick internally. Who do you fall in love with? Who matches what you need? And what we need is a guy that creates turnover. That's what he gives us.

and not just create turnovers. He creates them consistently. And people think it's all about him going one-on-one with the wide receiver. This guy's next level. He understands his real war is with the quarterback and the offensive coordinator. You can tell that he studies people. You can tell that when you enter and you get on the fords list, how should I say, your money will decrease.

So at the end of the day, I thought it was a perfect match with our defense line. I'm just saying, if you ever want to get the deepest of line of present, this was the perfect present for them. I mean, it's usually a good thing to be on the Forbes list, but you know, you said the other day, you said, Will Levis through that screen, it got picked, and he was on the Forbes list, and he went from 10 to 20. By the way, he didn't go from 10 to 20. He went from 10 to it the very best 32 at this point. Yeah, that's what happens when you get on the Forbes list. And this is what people need to understand.

When you don't really have weaknesses, they will find weaknesses. This guy has no weaknesses in coverage. He tackles way better than you think. He plays within the defense. And then they say what? Well, who has he played? Well, he's played Devontes Smith, the He's Cholka Wooner. He's played Jamar Chase, one of the best in the league.

He's played Justin Jefferson, one of the best in the league. He's only played every receiver that the SEC has got the offer from Waddle to all the rest of these guys. So at the end of the day, he has been everything, and then they say, hey, 172, he misses no game. I have been compared to, I understand because I came in at 172. I miss no games in college. I miss three games in my entire career. Like, you got two type of corners. You got the X, Y, receivable, which I am, which Champ Bailey was, which Deon was, which going to be on the skinning side.

You got the X running back, which is Sean Springs, Chris McAllister, big corners. And we're all different in our way. But if you look at the skinny guys, we don't get injured much. Interesting. I actually, there's something about what you said that makes sense to me. Like the skinny guys don't get hurt as much. Maybe there's just not enough there to injure. I don't know.

You know, Ron Rivera said something last night, Smoot. He said about Forbes that he's still growing. And I'm wondering if maybe, you know, and we all. kind of have experience with this, whether it's personal or seeing other people that kind of physically mature later. He's 22 years old, just turned 22, I think, in January. I mean, I was 5'9 as a junior in high school. I was 6'3 as a senior in high school. A lot of people mature physically later. Do you think that this might be the case with Forbes that, you know, he may not have reached his physical maturity and maybe there's another inch and another

10 pounds to go? Yeah. Like, he's a young man. Yes, he's still growing. And guess what? We're going to the NFL first round. He can eat a lot of stakes

and he's going to lift a lot of weight. So guess what? Yeah, he still is growing. Like, that's what people understand. You don't draft for today. You drive for tomorrow. So you're telling me that people would feel better if he made all the plays

he made at 185. If he was built like Thor, now everybody be like, no, no, no, no, perfect pick. Well, guess what? He made those ways at 1-66. And let me give you this. With the bottle in his hand, he's 168. All right, he has no problem doing that. Yeah, exactly. If he had been 178 and people hadn't had much of a problem, would really, like, 12 pounds have made a difference.

All right, so what I really wanted to get from you today is how you see him playing in this scheme. Are we going to see him line up on the outside and Fuller on the? the other outside St. Juice in the slot. Like, how do you see it working? I know he's a good zone corner, good zone match corner, but where do you think he ends up playing? Oh, you've got to keep him on the outside. He comes in.

He's your fastest corner. St. Juice might be a little longer, but he uses his lint in a whole different way. He is your big play hitter when he comes out there. You move him full of inside. He's the brain of the bunch. He's the smart guy. He understands when you're playing nickel,

you're actually part of the run front. So you want to make sure you got those two twin towers on the outside, making it hard. See, what people don't understand when you're six to and have a reach of a guy, six, four, six, five. That takes away one route automatically. You can't throw fades on them. So when you can't throw fades on them and these two guys start to press people, it takes away routes. It's making you have to throw inside routes on these guys, and you don't want to do that when you've got safety like Campero there.

It plays into the office. And so Kendall Fuller becomes the key inside because he can't play nickel. He can play safety. He's the guy that has to adjust in this situation. You want to make sure you make it simple as possible for Forbes out there. You get on the outside, you stay on the outside, you play man, you play zone, you go get the ball back, you understand the situation. And that's what I think it is.

They're going to want him to play fans. And you've got to realize he's going to play fans behind this D-line. And I'm going to tell you who really woke up this morning and feel good. one young Sam Howe. Sam Howe should feel very good because this guy's going to give you a lot of short fields. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, ultimately, this defense was 26th the last year in takeaways. They were 24th the year before, and you can't survive when you're not good offensively without great field position and without your special teams in defense making it easier for you. So hopefully that'll be the result. What else am I missing in asking you about Forbes?

Well, here's got a thing that I'm going to keep hearing. Why not Christian Gonzalez? Man, Christian Gonzalez, could you tell me who I've seen him go match one-on-one in the fact between with? Who have I seen him play? Addison. I'm sorry, that's not good enough. All right, so at the end of the day, yes, is he a good prospect? He is.

He's not a great prospect. Is he fans that he had a body that you want? This is not a body-building contest. I can go and go's gym all over the D&V in. bodybuilders. You're looking for football players, and I keep hearing this comparison. And let me tell y'all something. 166, 200 pounds, injuries happen to everybody. Some guys tougher than other guys. Where the guy we got is a corn-fed country boy who enjoys playing the game of football,

who, like me, going to play hurt. I had a crack stone at 1-70, and he still played the game. He is the same way. You're getting somebody that love the game, and that's all you can that as a fan base. Yeah, but were you surprised that Gonzalez was there? I was. I was very surprised that Gonzalez was there. And I thought that was, I think Jalen Carter going down the draft, reshape the draft, Anthony Richardson going to the coast, I felt was a good pick. I felt like that was one of those picks.

And when Gonzalez started to slide, that's when I said, we're going to have some decisions to make now. Now it's about who do you love? Who fits the scheme better? Which guy do you love? And head to head, they said Forbes was the guy, I'm sure. Like, when the push came to shove, they didn't wait 10 seconds to run the call in. They had that man.

That tells me that that's the guy that they wanted to get no matter what. Yeah, no doubt. The only guy that I think, I think if the tackle from Tennessee, Darnel Wright, had been there at 16, I think maybe they would have picked him knowing that, you know, they would have a shot at a corner like a Cam Smith or somebody, like that in the second round. But once I saw Darnell right go, I thought there was a really good chance with Forbes. But the Gonzalez thing, I think, messed everybody up. But, you know, I liked, I forget what we talked about the other day. I liked Gonzalez more than Witherspoon.

Did you say the same thing or not? I forget. I did say that. I did say that. Now, Willispoon has the ability to play inside and play in the knicker also, but I'm not taking a top five pick on the guy that plays inside at the nickel position. He also gets to play outside, and he's smart, and he's played very well. I cannot take that from him. But I don't think it's that high. Like, the one thing about it is, what am I spending? And I think in the top five, if it ain't a quarterback, a defense-aligning, an office-of-the-line

or Salis-Guardner, and he's not a South Gardner, I can't go for that. Like, if he doesn't have that upside, like, I ask a couple of good coaches. was like, who would you compare him to? And I heard mostly Runday-Barba, a couple of different guys. I'm just saying top five. I thought that was a reach. I did like Gonzalez more than I liked him.

But when it came down to a pure corner and me wanted to get the bang for my buck, I was all the way down with Emmanuel Ford. And it just wasn't because we bored with our brothers. It was because he was the best cornerback in the draft. Like, listen, the guy broke records. You don't do that just in SEC and not be good. Yeah.

Look, somebody pointed out to me today on radio. They called it and they said, you know, David Amerson led the, you know, led the NCAA in interceptions for at least one of those years. He was at NC State and we picked him in the second round and it didn't translate. But I think there's a big difference between Amerson and this guy in terms of playmaking ability. He sniffs everything out. Like you said to me the other day, and it's so true watching him. Like he is smart.

He is studied. He understands what the other team's doing. he just, he's got instincts. You call them, he's one of the Johnny on the spots. You know, I remember everything you said. Ronde, Barber, Dre Bligh, and, of course, DeAngelo Hall. DeAngelo Hall, yes. Yeah, so what do you want him to do?

Yeah, go ahead. And these guys, they don't, and the ball just doesn't fire them. They manufactured these things through studying. See, what, people don't understand. A lot of these guys are great athletes. You know, you go in the first round of the draft. you are a great athlete. The thing that's going to separate you and make you a great pro is who's going to take

the cerebral game to the next level. This kid is already on top of that cerebral game. That's the difference between him and Christian Gonzalez. Christian Gonzalez is the athletic prospect on paper, looks the best. The other guy puts everything, put all the pieces together. You know, like I said, it's no luck in football. He didn't luck up and get those interception. Look at the separate interception against, against we're allowed.

He picked off a bubble screen and did not miss a step. He knew it was coming. That takes into wishing and ball study. What do you want to see him do tonight? They have 47 overall, the 16th pick in the second round. I want them to continue in West Rose and continue the unicorn hunt. I want them to continue to say, what falls into my left? Let's just say we're there because my guy Jack Camber is gone.

You know, I had a love affair with John. that cabble. So now I'm going to sit there and I'm waiting, and let just say Dunnell, Washington is there. I know we don't need a tight end. But if you add him, he's not just a tight end. It's just like a tight end and a tackle. Like some

guys, I cannot, I cannot pass you by. So I would love for him to get a tackler. There's a couple of guys still out there. I keep hearing the kids name, Mark, from North Dakota. I keep hearing a couple of guys' name. I actually like the kid from Pittsburgh. He got hurt. The left tackle got hurt.

Missed a lot of games, but this guy is, he's dominant when he's in there. But I think it's Eric B. enemy's day. I think this is the day that they let him start to put the stamp on his offense, and there may be an offensive tackle. They may be a tight-in, a mismatch, or something, but I think it's Eric B. Be in his day to shine a day. How would you feel if they took Hendon hooker tonight in the second round. I feel good. You can never stop dressing quarterback. Yeah, I like him in Hooker.

Everybody want to talk about him to be a 25 quarterback's play today, 40. Joe Burrell got drafted at 24, one year younger. It doesn't matter. I like the kid. He can make all the toes. He can run better than a lot of people think. And I hear he's a wonderful kid, wonderful leader. So at the end of the day, I will not.

We talked about unicorns. He's one of those guys with a high, high upside. And guess what? We have one of those scenarios he needs. He don't need to be forced to play this year because he's coming up an injury. We got Sam Howe. Perfect. Last two for you.

In the first round last night, other than Forbes, what was the pick that you liked the most? Well, I got to say this here. Harry Roseman is playing chess and everybody else is playing checkers. He dominated the draft for the last four or five years, but he took the cake this year. Jalen Carter fell in his lap. Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, Nal Kobe Dean, Smith.

Bulldice. They was a part of one of the, yeah, they was part of one of the best, if not the best college defense of all times. The familiarity is there. The size is there. That was scary. Like, that made me almost say,

don't draft no, Connell. Just draft the beef. Like, it just, you got to understand it. this is not a one-year theme. This is a four or five-year run with these guys. I just thought they truly dominated the draft. I like what Detroit did. A lot of people did, but I think Jermere Gill, very special.

I think Ann Jack Campbell, very special. I love what the Texans did. First year coach, go get your quarterback, go get your edge rush. And we know, because we played the Texans last year, there was no pushover last year, man. You had a couple of guys to that team, you know, you've got something going. So I like what a lot of guys did, but we did see the realistic view of the draft.

These guys, with all these three drafts, my draft, know nothing. We found that out. They know nothing, John, so they know nothing. Well, you know, we did find out that he was actually a stark by blood. So the last thing is what was the move that you didn't like? What pick in the first round did you think didn't make sense to you? The Willispoon pick, I wasn't very high on. Everybody's high on him, but we'll see how this pick go.

He reminds me of Yodoka years ago from Ohio State. A guy that was taking too high. Everybody's reaching. The Mazzis flip picked by the Cowboys, it was a, I thought they would go tidy in there to try to get Dax some help. I didn't like that pick. But all for all, I thought the draft went about how I thought it would go. Like I thought a lot of people was being pushed up the draft and a lot of mocks for all the wrong reasons

when teams are going to look logically and teams are going to focus on the things that they need and not with the outside world, I think, is the popular pick. So not a lot of bad picks, but I know that the bulk of the players in this draft is, they're in between 30 and 100. It's a ton of players. This is when the players are going to get picked in this draft when we look back on it. I think the second round and third round players are going to outside the first round players. The one thing with the Detroit thing, like I'm not dead set against a running back or a linebacker in the first round like all of these nerd analytics draft people are.

But especially if they're just real good football players and both of them are. And I agree with you. But they could have picked Gibbs at 18 and they could have gotten like I think if Washington and New England don't go. back to back with corners with Forbes and Gonzalez. I think Detroit takes one of the two corners that are left, and they could have taken the corner at 12 and gotten Gibbs at 18. I know you love Jack Campbell, but you could have potentially gotten Jack Campbell in the second round.

Well, it ain't about the ips and the filth. It's about do I find some people that I love. When you walk in the room and you met your wife and compare her to all of the women, it was something else that you loved about her. made her unique. So when you find that unique thing in the draft that you want, you don't care if somebody say you're overdrafts.

There's no such thing is overdraft, and if that's the player I want. If that's the player you want, that's what you go get. We knew this. It was two game-changing running backs in this draft. Detroit saw BJ & Robinson go out of the board. They knew they got their only last guy, me guy, Elisable. They know a team like Kansas City at the bottom of the draft got a bonus pick

because their team is already solidified. for a game breaker, they went, they drafted the player that they want. You only overdraft when the player becomes a bus. And you don't know that for three, four, three, four, five years. Look, you know, if Mascendi or if Kalee are in the room, it doesn't matter where the mock drafters have them. You've just got to take them. And you can't worry about they falls, no matter if they got a bad attitude

or not dead tooth for their mouth. You're going to see that. And visually, you're going to say, I'm going to take a chance. Tony. What else do I have for you? I mean, people love to hear from you, but I took up too much of your time the other day. This was awesome. Thanks for doing this again, and I will talk to you soon. I think they got a good, I think they got a really good football player. I'm excited about him, too. Yeah, yeah, me too. And plus, people got to understand. They don't want to look at the truth. 65% of the guys that got drafted yesterday are going to be bused. And nobody wants to talk about that.

Everybody think everybody won yesterday. Sixty-five of those guys, 50% will be bused. Here's what I tweeted out last night. All right, you'll be proud of me. I tweeted out before the draft started. I said, I'm a big fan of tonight, and I like certain players more than others, and I said, Emmanuel Forbes, please, because that's who I wanted to. But I wrote roughly two-thirds of the players picked tonight won't be contributors within three years. Even though people think they know, even the teams who have the most information get it wrong two out of three times. So it's still a fun night, though.

It's a fun night to kind of to watch it. And three years from now, though, half these guys, we won't even know their names anymore. We'll forget all about them. Oh, I know what I wanted to ask you. There was one other thing. What did you make, because I didn't ask you about this the other day, what did you make of the run of receivers in the first round?

I forget, I don't think I asked you this, and I don't think I've heard you talk about it, but which of the receivers did you like? Did you like any of them? I did. I did. I like Addison. And now that he's never going to get a double team because he's going to be playing with Justin Jefferson,

and he has the cash cow of all quarterbacks when they come to Statsville. Easy. Easy. So he should have an instant fantasy impact. But I think Powerful Powell, Jackson Enigma, I think I thought he was the most talented out of the buck. I thought he had all the upside when it came to it, and he also is going to be in a great situation with D.K. Medcap on the outside, working him in the inside, allowing him to get one-on-one to be matched up with linebackers and safety.

I like these guys, but the thing about it is I actually like Quinn. I like the guy from TCU. I like him also, but it's a stigma with TCU I receive. It's a stigma there that I just cannot like all. But this is not a deep group of Y receivers. This is not a deep group of Y receivers. And Y receivers have been the hot position for about the last three, four, five years. This probably is one of the worst classes when it comes to Y receivers.

The tight end group, now, the tight end group could be a group. I wouldn't mind seeing a tight end tonight. I wouldn't mind seeing a tight end to Washington. I just don't think they feel like they have a need. Well, here's going to think about it. Eventually, you're going to have to re-sign some players. And most of your cap right now, if you go Kendall Fuller, Charles Leno, and, uh, tight-in. Logan Thomas.

That's $25 million right there. And if you're replacing one of these guys with a guy like, promote a minion like cooks, who nobody's talking about, who's a 4-5, 260-70-pound guy, like, it's some guys in here that'll make you say, you know what, I'm going to pull a trick on this guy in the third and a fourth round. All right. Live from Westrose where he's looking for unicorns, Fred Smoot, ladies and gentlemen. He is the absolute best. I appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the draft. We'll talk soon. You can only find unicorns beyond the wall. And that's where I've got to take a journey to my friend. You got to go to where the maps end, like Aria is. Remember, Arias last venture is she's off to find out where the maps end.

All right, brother, thanks. Thank you, brother. All right. Fred Smoot, everybody. He is so much fun to talk to. And I've said this, you know, many times in the past about both him and Clinton, is that because they love college football, as much as they love the NFL, they are so knowledgeable when it comes to this time of year.

They have spent a lot of time watching all of these players. and then their expertise of being actual former NFL players is icing on the cake. Anyway, I enjoyed that, as I always do. We are done for the day. Look, if something dramatic happens tonight or tomorrow, I will come in and do a podcast over the weekend. But if not, I'll be back on Monday. Have a good weekend.

With the 16th pick in the 2023 NFL draft, The Washington commanders select Emmanuel Forbes, defensive back Mississippi State.