The Kevin Sheehan Show - Franchise Tags, Ginger Snaps, & A.I.

Episode Date: February 21, 2023

Kevin and Thom opened with plenty more on Eric Bieniemy. They talked the likelihood of the franchise tag for Daron Payne and then ended with Kevin's favorite new cookie, Thom's fear of artificial intelligence, and thoughts on the passing of Tim McCarver.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. And I did get a lot of feedback from many of you yesterday on the show in which I expressed

what I thought about the Eric Biennamy hiring. Tommy's going to weigh in on that today. We'll get what Tommy thinks he's written a column on that as well. I read Tommy several, I mean, several emails that I got from so many different people. What I have found in sort of follow-up to the show yesterday, many of you agree that there is, you know, reason to be skeptical. Like I think I said on the show yesterday, it seems like almost everybody in my timeline thinks that this is the greatest move of all time. And it does seem that way. It seems like every bit of 80% of my Twitter timeline, people are over the moon, over this Eric Bienemy hiring.

Mine too. But following yesterday's, I got a lot of you that said, look, I'm with you on this. How could anybody just fall for this so easily? You know, first of all, this is what Stephen said. Stephen said, first of all, it's Washington. Why would you ever give them the benefit of the doubt? Secondly, the whole league said no to him. That's why there are absolute worthy reasons to be skeptical about this,

and there are reasons to be optimistic too. And I pointed those out as well. I read several tweets yesterday. I'll read this one, which kind of goes with the ones that I was reading yesterday. Seth read, getting the number one O.C. From the number one offense was quite the feat. looks like Washington is more desirable than you think, Kevin. This was a stroke of genius.

Again, Seth, he didn't have any other options. Like even going back to Kansas City was a little bit, we're not really sure because they never, you know, were put in that position. Now, personally, Tommy, I think Andy Reid would have had to take him back. He would have looked terrible. Had he professed what he professed publicly and then allowed him to be unemployed in 2023. Also, real quickly, from our good friend, The Incomparable, CJ, who I like a lot, and I think has always had a super smart opinion. He was listening either to the podcaster this morning.

He said, you can keep saying you're neutral. My position, Tommy, is wait and see. I have no idea if Eric B. Enemies are going to be a good. good offensive coordinator, bad offensive coordinator. I don't know why anybody else would be so sure one way or the other. What I am absolutely sure of is that Washington's out there by themselves, for the most part, on him. And anybody that thinks that this was some sort of coup is delusional. But the incomparable CJ wrote, you can keep saying you're neutral about the BNami hire, but the truth is your words and tone come off as very negative and pessimistic. If this was Roman,

as in Greg Roman. I think you'd be singing a different tune. You'll come around, this is the right move, we're lucky. And then from Leonard, Leonard writes, you sound so hopeful about Biennamy. I think this is a terrible hire. And so my response to CJ was, you know, his interpretation comes from his perspective.

You know, when he says, we're lucky this is the right move, He's going to be looking for the part of me that says you should be skeptical, which I think you should be. I'm glad they hired him because this is a better storyline. I have no idea if it'll work. And then one other quick one, and then I want to get to your thoughts on this. Because this was, hold on for one second. I had it here a second ago, and I will find it. but this came from

yeah this came from Superdad on Twitter bro you are so negative you love to piss on a lot of the Washington moves to get out of their rut but if Baltimore hired him you wouldn't trash the hire you would have been like a great hire

for them so my gosh so let me just say to Superdad again I don't know if this is a good hire or bad hire. But you're right. If Baltimore had hired Eric B. Enemy, I think everybody around the league would have had a completely different reaction. But you know what, Superdad? They didn't. And that's part of the problem here. That's where the skepticism stems from. is Baltimore and every other organization that interviewed him were expressed interest in interviewing him,

either didn't interview him, but none of them hired them. But yeah, you're right. If Baltimore had hired Eric B. Enamey, I would have thought, you know what? That's probably a place that figured out what the issues were and they'll make it work. Yes, Baltimore gets the benefit of the doubt. Washington does not. That is true. But yeah.

And then from Aaron, Aaron writes, Can't believe that you haven't crushed Eric Bianami hire. This guy didn't get hired by anybody and Andy Reed didn't want him back, which is, it's all perspective. You know, it's what you believe. And this hire has generated, here's what's also, what isn't debatable is that he didn't have any other choices, really. I mean, it's really not debatable.

And what's also not debatable is this hire has, gin people up. I do think many, many more, many more. Not 80%, maybe. I think it's more like 75% maybe of the people that listen to our show. I think, you know, the crowd that you're out there that, you know, screams Carson Wentz, if you're not on board, get out of town. You know, get on board or get out. I think, you know, if you're just attracting the dummy base, then it's probably a higher percentage. But I think still for us, Tommy, 75% of my timeline? Oh my God. They think Washington just completely nailed it. Maybe they did. I have no idea whether or not they did or not. But anyway, your thoughts on the hiring. I have an idea. I have an idea. And this is going to be a massive failure. Because why? Because everything that happens with this organization is a massive failure. This is the place where reputations go to die in the NFL.

Mike Shanahan brought two Super Bowls to Washington, D.C., and he left a loser. I mean, this is the place, this is the most self-destructive franchise in the league, in every way, shape, and form you can imagine. So even if Eric the enemy is good at his job and would. be successful someplace else here, it's going to be an absolute disaster because everything's a disaster. They all are. I mean, how many more times do you have to be shown that this time is not going to be any different than the last time and the time before that and the time before that until Skipper Dan, the Salin Man, gets rid of the team? Yeah, of course. It doesn't matter.

None of it matters. And, you know, I mean, this is just another round of Kool-Aid. That's all it is. I mean, what you've got left with this fan base is a cult, and this is just a new color Kool-Aid for them. But we have to do what we've done in the past. Just suspend, you know, the reality. So if you suspend reality, Jack Del Rio's been successful here for the first time here.

I mean, he certainly was last year. He was last year. You know, and they've had some really good performances by players. Look, they have a top 10 defense. That defense is top 10. What is it added up to? What is it added up to? I understand that, but I'm...

They have a head coach. They have a guy in charge of football who actually thought, unless we believe the owner did this, and that even makes it worse, who actually thought it was a good idea to bring Carson Wentz here. I mean, that's not a mistake. That's an indictment. certainly looks that way now and certainly looked that way in terms of the deal he you know he he gave to Indianapolis for Carson Wentz that that's an indictment no doubt somebody maybe while somebody may be

good at their job there will be something else that will happen in this organization that that will throw a monkey wrench into it I know being good there have been a lot of good people that have work for this team. And it hasn't added up to anything. Which may be one of the reasons that Washington wasn't so off putting to him. Number one was it was his only option, but number two was, look, even though we've always talked about the reverse car wash, you know, you come in clean, you leave dirty, the truth is most of the rest of the league doesn't hold it against you, that you come in here and fail. Yes. Yes. I mean, This is the one place where they'll say, well, it was Washington.

What did you respect for him? He's not a miracle worker. Yeah, I don't know. It depends on what comes out. You know, we don't know what's going to come out in terms of power struggles that go on behind the scenes. And there will be. Look, as far as I know, based on my knowledge, Jack Del Rio has been the assistant head coach here for all intents and purposes. Now there's a new voice who actually is the assistant head coach.

And it's not North Turner's son who's probably just happy to be there. Okay? This is a guy with a Super Bowl ring who's been in the league a long time, and I'm sure he had two of them, and I'm sure he has some really strong views and really strong positions. And that will be interesting how that plays out as well. But again, I mean, it's to deny it. the existence of 22 years of proof right in front of you to think that this will be successful.

I don't know how you operate that unless you're just delusional. And you choose to be delusional. A lot of what's left in the fan base is, Tommy. I guess you could say they're loyal. That would be a nice way of putting it. But yeah, no, I'm with you. I've been amazed in recent years. not at the erosion of the fan base,

but that what's left of the fan base, that they're just so easy. They're such marks. Not everybody. Some people just really love football. They love this team. They understand. They've got eyes wide open,

but they continue to be loyal. And that's true loyalty. Others are just sort of blindfolded through all of the bad, and they don't see it. And then, by the way, they get very aggressive, when people who do see it communicate that. But yeah, I agree with you. One more thing.

Eric Bianami, if he's successful, what team in the NFC East are the Washington commanders going to lead frog? Which one of those teams are they going to lead frog? Talked about that with Sand yesterday. I talked about that with Sand yesterday. I mean, all of a sudden, like this idea that, look, if you can find a quarterback that's a little bit better and your defense is what you think

it is, it's an easy division. Well, it's not an easy division on paper. Philadelphia is a juggernaut. Dallas has more talent and the Giants are coming. All three of those teams were in the playoffs. You weren't. But real quickly on the suspension of reality part of the conversation, people have come here and succeeded.

It's not like everybody comes here and doesn't succeed. But shit gets in the way. I know that. What gets in the way is everything associated with the dysfunction and winning. But there are individual performances that have been really good by coaches, by players. And so I'm not discounting the possibility that a guy that by all accounts is a good play designer, is a guy that will bring a system that actually is more conducive perhaps to Sam Howe. strengths that has two Super Bowl rings that was around all of this creativity and imagination in Kansas

City. My God, even if he wasn't responsible directly for any of it, some of it has to rub off. I mean, Kansas City's been spectacular. They're one of the more spectacular offensive teams, and I'm not just talking about from a quarterback standpoint, which is obvious, and he doesn't have that here. But from a creativity, from an imagination, from, you know, taking what they have and figuring it out week in and week out, you have to hope if you're being hopeful, and there's part of me that is hopeful about this, that enough of this rubbed off on this guy that it's going to be better than what they had. Now, as I'm saying that to you, it's reminding me that I was like, this is a terrible trade. I don't think it's going to work out long term, but I'm hopeful that it'll be better than what they've had. That was what last year was when they traded for Carson Wentz. It's different because you didn't have to trade for Wentz.

There's no trade here that you can bash, you know, in terms of value. But my God, hopefully something rubbed off, even if he wasn't the guy, even if he was along for the ride, which, by the way, nobody's ever really suggested. Listen, Andy, whether he was the play caller or not, and he wasn't, Andy Reed's the play caller. Andy Reid is not going to keep an offensive coordinator around for five years who wasn't a valuable contributor. Good point. You know, he's not going to do that. He's not going to just keep him around, okay?

So he had to have some value to what the organization did. I believe that. I do, too. Okay, now the other part I bring up in my column, and we talked about this before, and I know you don't necessarily agree with it, I think this handcuffs a new owner. Explain everybody, yeah. Eric Bianney may not, may have been unhireable at one point. Now he may be unfireable. He's the face of the argument about racist hiring practices in the league.

Nobody represents that more than Eric Bienemy. And let's say by March, we have a new owner, a long shot, but there's a new owner here. And let's say that guy had a plan in place that we don't know about to bring in a new head coach. Okay? Can't do that now. Because that new head coach is going to say, well, I want to pick my offensive coordinator. You got to fire Eric B. Enemy. Well, that's not going to happen.

That's ridiculous. even a year later. I don't know if you can fire air if the enemy. So I think you kind of inherit him if you're the new owner. But are you saying that Ron did this to essentially give himself two years? No, I don't. Look, maybe he is, but I don't think he's that devious or smart. I think he recognized, I mean, I think he recognized that they really had an opportunity

to make a big splash. And that Eric B. Enemy is probably, you know, I don't know what he was thinking. I don't think that he manipulated this for his job security. I think that's just like a byproduct. But more importantly, I don't think any new owner is going to be in a position to get rid of Erick B. Enemy for a couple of years, no matter what happened. Yeah, I understand that. I just think that this situation, other than the people that make everything about race

and are just not going to leave it alone. And by the way, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that the league has a race perception problem when it comes to hiring head coaches. But I just think the BNemi thing is an outlier on this. I mean, he interviewed for 15 teams, 16 times, wasn't hired once, and yet in several of those opportunities, minority candidates were hired. Also, Tommy, I mentioned this yesterday. You didn't listen to the podcast yesterday, did you? No, you never did.

So that's fine. By the way, it's not that he only listens when he's on it. He doesn't listen then either. But I was listening to Galdi's podcast on Monday yesterday. Monday morning I was off of radio yesterday, and I was listening to Galdi's podcast. And he told the story of something that I did not know about. Ryan Poles, you don't know who he is, right? He's the general manager of the Chicago Bears.

Ryan Poles was in Kansas City for a decade with Andy Reed and Eric B. Enemy. for four years with Reed and Biennamy as the offensive coordinator. Ryan Poles was hired last offseason by the Chicago Bears to replace Ryan Pace, because Pace and Nagy were both hired, excuse me, we're both fired during that off season. His first task was to hire a new head coach. He hired Matt Eberflus, a defensive coordinator from the Colts. by the way, somebody pointed out, Eberfluse was Cooley's guy, and you're right.

Cooley loved Everflus. Thought he should have been a head coach years before. But Matt Eberflus was hired by the Bears with Ryan Poles as the general manager. Had a young quarterback in Justin Fields, a young black quarterback in Justin Fields. And yet, Ryan Poles hired a defensive head coach. But more importantly, Tommy, is that he never interviewed Eric. B. Enemy for the job. He had been in Kansas City all of those years, knew Eric Bianemy, presumably,

very well, had heard Andy Reed endorse Bianemy over and over again. He gets a job as a GM, there's a coaching vacancy, and he didn't even interview Eric Bianney. Beyond that, and I mentioned this yesterday, for those that don't know who Ryan Pohl's is, Ryan Pohl's is black. He's a GM in Chicago. It came from Kansas City, from the whole Andy Reid, Veach, you know, group, and did not even interview Eric Bienemy. I just personally don't know what it is about Eric Bienemy,

but I think the race part with him, I'm not saying that the league doesn't have a problem. I think it's a weak argument. But again, I don't know what it is. You may think it's a weak argument, but it has tremendous momentum. I understand that, but it has tremendous momentum. momentum with people who weren't looking at the facts of these interviews and who these teams ended up hiring.

The league media table-setters, guys like Rappaport and Albert Breer and Schaefter, and everybody else, Charles Roberts, they've all bought in to the idea that Eric B. enemy has been passed over because of race. So that's not going to change, which makes it very difficult. to get rid of a guy like that. I don't think... Look, I'm not discounting the possibility that... Here's a long-shot possibility, and I mentioned this in my column.

You know, Eric B. Enemy is successful, to some extent, and the new owner actually thinks he could really be the head coach and hires him to be the head coach. Right. And maybe he got that... That's a plausible scenario. And I'm not discounting that. but what you've done is taking the bat out of the new owner's hands in some ways, I think.

I think why I'm pushing back on you with respect to this is because I don't agree with you that everybody thinks the B-enemy situation is about race. I think a lot of people understand that this one's a little bit different than others and the overall problem. I mean, you're now saying that 15 teams, three of which, Four of which hired minority candidates after interviewing him didn't hire him because he was black. The general manager who's black and general manager in Chicago who knew him better than any other general manager, presumably, didn't even interview him. Now, somebody did send me something that said, you know, they hired Eberflus two days after he took the job and they had three what they called final candidates. Okay, well, they gave him the responsibility of picking among those three candidates. you're going to tell me that if he had gone to the McCaskies, it's the McCaskies, right, and said, hey, I want to interview Eric Bienemy.

I've been around him forever. Look, Eric B. Matt Nagy's been called now the successor. Somebody needs to go to Kansas City, the people that are so hell bent on this being a race issue as to why Bianami has only been offered by one team other than Kansas City. why didn't Kansas City hire him to a long-term assistant head coach, offensive coordinator position, and say when Andy Reid retires, Eric Bienimi is going to be the next head coach? Why didn't they do that? Good point. I mean, why didn't Andy Reid say to the Hunts, this is the plan here. This is what I want the plan to be.

He's the real deal. Let's not let him get away. Now, Andy Reid's only 64 years old, and he's got Patrick Mahomes. If I'm Andy Reid, I'm going the rest of Mahomes' career and making a run at Belichick, you know, as long as he likes coaching. I mean, he's, for a 64-year-old guy, I know people think Andy Reid is older. He's not. He's 64.

He's got two Super Bowls now, and he could get two or three more with Pat Mahom. Holmes is his quarterback. But I also want to say something that I didn't. He ain't going anywhere. He ain't going anywhere unless something forces him to. I also just want to emphasize something that I don't think I emphasized enough yesterday. I totally get why Eric B. Enemy wants to move on. You know, he was unable to get a head coaching job being from the Andy Reed, you know,

coaching tree. And, you know, one of the reasons may be. is that people aren't sure about what his true contribution to the Kansas City success has been. And I understand him wanting to move on from Andy Reid's shadow and have his own deal where there's no mistaking what happens. In Washington, there will be no mistake as to what Eric Bianami is with this offense. Now, we don't know if he's got a quarterback. We don't know if there's going to be a good enough offensive line.

he may have his hands tied a little bit in this first year. They may realize that that Howl's not the guy. I'm not saying he is or isn't. I have no idea, nor do you people. But if they find out that he's not, you know, the needle in a haystack, you know, after the first round guy, after the second round guy, that turns into a legitimate starter, you know, he may not be able to prove what he wants to prove.

But here's a benefit for him. This offense has been so poor, so substandard for so long that if he elevates it just a little bit and Sam Howell develops into something that appears to be an NFL starting quarterback, he'll get the credit for that. Because Tommy, one of the things I learned from talking to people over the weekend, Ron Rivera is giving him everything. This is his show.

Scott Turner, I don't know if that was always the case. You know, but BNemi's got full control over the office. offense, full autonomy. So I understand him, and I mentioned this too yesterday, and I don't know how you feel about this. I have respect for BNAMI doing this. I have respect for him doing this because I think there are a lot of people that would have done the woe is me thing, done the, you know, going down the path of saying he's been wronged in so many different ways. I haven't seen him or heard him say anything to that effect. He is taking. what is perceived to be a lateral move.

And it's more than a lateral move because of the title and because of the responsibility. But I respect that. You know, he's going to, he, this dude wants to go prove that it's not just all Mahomes and Reed and people will see it. The teams that pass, the teams that wouldn't even interview him will, will rue the day, rather than, you know, being publicly a woe is me candidate. Look, I've got nothing but respect for him because he took one of the worst jobs in football, okay, working for one of the worst organizations in football.

So he's obviously determined to show people that they've been wrong about him. Good luck to him. I hope he does, but there will be things beyond his control that he may recognize before the press conference even starts. which is Thursday. He may be saying already to his wife, I guess he's married, I don't know, to his family. Oh, my God, what did I do? I've been in the building for two days. This place is a mess, and they've got people taking tours,

and there's going to be a new owner in a month and a half. Ron told me he was safe for 20, 23. Now it looks like he might not be. Who knows? Here are a couple of, I don't, I wouldn't call them conspiracy theories. I've got a couple of things to present to you, though. what are the chances that Ron Rivera was doing Andy Reed a solid here? Because I think what is very suspicious is, again, what I said earlier,

if they loved Eric B. Enemy and he was such, you know, and it's been such a travesty that he hasn't been offered a job by anybody else, why didn't they lock him up to a long-term contract as the assistant head coach, offensive coordinator, and say when Andy reads, Eric Bienemy is next in line. Because it seems like that's sort of what they're doing with Matt Nagy. I think they'd be stupid to go public with that with Matt Nagy because it'll then raise all of the questions that I just asked, which should be asked anyway. But what are the chances that really the chiefs wanted to move on from BNAMI?

Ron Rivera's a good friend of Andy Reed. Ron Rivera knows that his days here are numbered, and he thinks he's got at least a year, and no one else was willing to hire Bienemy, even to be an offensive coordinator as far as we know, and that Ron, you know, did something for Andy Reed by hiring Bienemy. Do I think that was the motivating factor?

No. Do I think that they looked at this and said this is a win-win? as far as him and Andy Reid are concerned. I think that's possible. I mean, you know, how likely was it what they were going to promote Ken Sam Peezy as the offensive coordinator? I think it seemed pretty likely. I know. I have no idea.

I think they could have hired Pat Shermer, and neither one of those two is as exciting as storyline as Eric B. Enemy is. Right. So I think this benefit at both parties. I don't think doing a favor for Andy Reid was the most. factor. I think that was just a byproduct of it. What about the press release part of this? We know that they have been trying at every turn, and certainly in the off season, to try to drum up interest in the team. You know, hiring Eric B. Enemy, whether or not you think it's a good, or bad hire, it'll succeed, it won't succeed, regardless of him not having many options,

bringing him on here is this is going to be. Stop it. What? Stop it. What? Stop it. What are you going to say? This is good.

This will be a boost? This is, no, no, no, no, no. No, that's not what I'm going to say. This is going to be Washington in the headlines, you know, August into September. This isn't a tier one storyline in the NFL. That's not, you know, it's not that. It may not even be a tier two storyline, but there's going to be a lot of preseason how's Eric B. Enemy doing and what kind of job is Eric B. Enemy going to do? This is the most

known assistant coach storyline in the coaching hiring cycle of the last three or four years. The only reason people knew Eric Bianami before the last three or four years, obviously some of it is because of the chief success understood. But really what people know him for is interviewing and not getting hired to be a head coach. unless you're a college football fan like me and know that he was involved in the fifth down win over Missouri back in 1990. It certainly raises their attention level in terms of storylines when reporters are traveling around the country go into various training camps and doing stories. But remember, it'll always be supplemented by the daily fuck-up story. by this organization. And the reality is, if this team isn't sold by August,

then it really won't matter. Who's writing about Eric B. Enemy? Because no one's going to show up to watch him coach. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head from the jump, and I talked about that yesterday. I understand that there's no new news, although there was a third tour.

I think WUSA was the first one to report that, I think, Channel 9. was the first report that there was a third tour taken by a perspective bitter. But that is really the only thing that truly matters. Everything else is suspended reality talk, which we've been doing for years now. And we will continue to do. Yes. We will continue to do. Yes, we will.

All right. Again, I don't know. I have no idea. I think it's a better, put it this way, it's better for us. that's what I know. Yes. It's a better hire for us. And, you know, given what he's gone through, you know, the pain of interviewing for all these jobs

and then having everybody discuss whether true or not, rumors, innuendo, et cetera, about why you're not getting these jobs. And, by the way, never complained. I don't think he has complained about this, never made it about, you know, know, being completely hosed or making it about anything where he is, you know, highlighting himself as a victim, I'm rooting for a guy like that. But I am... Let me tell you something.

If he thinks that existence was bad, he hasn't seen bad yet, but it's coming. Well, yeah. Here's what, no matter what his influence was, maybe it was. was all-time influence and much more than we think. He didn't, he wasn't in an organization with Dan Snyder. He was with the Hunt family who's been stellar as ownership throughout their time in the league. He was with Andy Reed. He wasn't with Ron Rivera.

Ron Rivera is a hell of a man, by all accounts, leader. But, you know, Andy Reed is all-time great now, Hall of Fame coach. clearly. And he is going to come here and he's going to be looking around maybe for the first few days for number 15. And he's not here. He's still at Arrowhead playing. And so it doesn't matter who you have as an offensive coordinator people. I mean, unless it's Kyle Shanahan, okay, and that's the outlier there. The 49ers of the outlier where they had a third string quarterback that they took to the NFC championship game. That doesn't happen.

They are brilliant in San Francisco. Coaching-wise, front office-wise, and by the way, their roster, even though Washington's roster is pretty good, 49ers roster off the charts good. Yes. All right. We have other things to get to. Duran Payne Instagrammed something out. I want to talk about that.

You have some questions about AI, and I found some new cooking. that I like. And AI, I don't mean Alan Iverson. No, no. I believe it's artificial intelligence that you want to talk about, which we'll do right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast brought to you by MyBooky, go to mybooky.orgie. Go to my bookie.com.

Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. They'll offer up a unique deposit bonus that allows you to cash in and cash out quickly. How do you make that happen? Well, you make your first deposit. You use my promo code in doing it. If there's something written in the promo code section, erase it, write Kevin D.C. Wager that deposit amount just one time. You're eligible to cash out right away.

Most books don't let you do that. My bookie is. Kansas City without Eric Bianamy is still the favorite to win the Super Bowl. Washington with Eric Bianami is still one of the super long shots to win the Super Bowl. That's tongue placed firmly in cheek. The offensive coordinator never, ever. or defensive coordinator never changes point spreads or odds. You know what does that?

Really good teams with good quarterbacks. That's why Kansas City is the favorite. Buffalo's the second favorite to win the Super Bowl. Go to my bookie.ag, use my promo code. Kevin D.C. We've gotten lots of really nice reviews. It matters a lot that you do this for us if you have the opportunity. to do it, especially on Spotify and Apple.

This is from Fire Guy, Cali Fire Guy. I'm born and raised in Northern California. My mom was born in Alexandria and raised in D.C. Both have been my second homes since the mid-70s. I've been a California skin, a California skin since 1981. I love listening to the podcast. Kevin makes me feel like I'm in town when I can't. be he, Cooley, and Tom are outstanding. Thank you for that. Hold on. What is this? This is from Andrew.

Every afternoon at 2.30 on the way home from work, I load up the podcast app, hoping it refreshes with a new Shian show. Even more joyous when it's Tuesday or Thursday, and there's a show title highlighting the latest plunder out of the Ashburn clown show, knowing Tom, is on to crush them. Hilarious and they deserve all that comes to them. I grew up in the DMV, my Redskins fandom solidifying just on the tail end of glory.

My father had season tickets since the mid-60s up until the confiscation of our name. Recapping Kevin and Tom's critique of the team is always a point of bonding for us. On another note, love ending the show on Thursday with Tom singing, tossing, and turning only to get then Marvin Gay's anthem

on Friday. Talk about a menu of excellence. By the way, he titled, he titled his review on Apple, gave us five stars. It's a music show. Yeah, Tommy, I played the Tossing and Turning from karaoke down in Destin, Florida. And then Friday, I did play the Marvin Gay, 1983, 40 years ago NBA All-Star Anthem at the Forum in L.A., which I mentioned on Friday. David Aldridge wrote a great story about on the athletic. I mean, there was so much about that, Tommy, I didn't know. But netting it out for you, this guy, Lon Rosen, was the director of promotions.

And back then, the teams were responsible more so for the All-Star game. It wasn't the league to put on the show. So L.A. was responsible for everything having to do with the game, including who sung the anthem. Well, they wanted to reach out to Lionel Richie. But for whatever reason, the league, Lawrence O'Brien was the commissioner, the league got wind of it and said, we don't want Lionel Richie. I don't know why you wouldn't have wanted Lionel Richie. He had just left the Commodores and he was singing three times a lady in 1983. You know, he had like three top, you know, five hits that year.

But after the league told L.A., we'd rather not have Lionel Richie, they reached out to Marvin Gay. Marvin Gay immediately said yes, but here's where it got interesting. Because there were so many quotes from Lon Rosen in here. They had a scheduled rehearsal on a Saturday. You know the anthem, and you know that it became sort of controversial, because it wasn't sung in a traditional manner. You know, he had that drumbeat, that soul beat that he sung it to. So on the Saturday, they came in and they rehearsed an anthem.

And the one thing I couldn't really get from David's story is whether or not he rehearsed it in a traditional sense. I'm guessing he did. But it was very long. So Lon Rosen said to him, hey, Marvin, you got to shorten it up. And Marvin said, fine. And then left. And Rosen said, can you get back here by 11 tomorrow to rehearse the shortened version? Sure.

So the game started at 1230, 3.30, Eastern time. West Coast time. So at 11 a.m. No Marvin Gay. 1115, no Marvin Gay. 1130, 1145, 12, 12, 15, no Marvin Gay. He's nowhere to be found. He walks in dressed to the nines,

Hans Lon Rose in a cassette, said, give this to your sound engineer and tell him to play it when we're ready to start. And that was the, you know, the drumbeat to what they had recorded, actually, the day before. And then he went out there and he, slayed it, but of course, he didn't want Lon Rosen or anybody to get wind of what and how he was

going to do it. And that's what I believe to be true based on the story, although it wasn't specifically said, and that was the only thing I thought that was kind of missing from the story, but God, the quotes from the players were great. But anyway, when he got done singing it, Lon Rosen said, he turned around, walked out of the arena, and I never saw him again. Never once. He said, I thought I was going to get fired, but Jerry Buss loved it. The league was getting calls in New York off the hook, complaining, but Jerry Buss loved it, and that's all I cared about. Anyway, yes.

That's great. So thank you, Andrew, for the nice review. Rate us and review us whenever you get a chance. So before we get... You know, he had a big athletic bug, Marvin Gay. I know he did. Great story in Rolling Stone about how he would try to get in and spar with fighters. Right.

And he did it with Ali and really got too rambunctious with Ali and Ali put him down. You know, and he managed a fighter for a few years and he actually wanted to try out with the Detroit Lions. Exactly. At one point. Yeah. So he had a big athletic bug. according to the people who knew him, it was kind of delusional about his athletic proudness.

But he loved sports. Yeah, there's this story because I went down sort of a deep hole after reading the story in the athletic. I mean, I've always been a Marvin Gay fan. He's from D.C., as you know, I think he's got one of the most effortless, great voices of all time. It's like when he sings, it's like it's one of those voices. and when you're watching him, unlike you doing karaoke,

where it really looks like he's not even trying. And it just comes out, and it's so beautiful. But I found that story about the Lions that, you know, Lem Barney, and I think it was, oh, there was another player on the Lions whose name is a recognizable name, and I'm forgetting it right now. Lembarnie was, you know, an all-time great. But he was friends with Lembarnie and another player on the Lions. and he was trying to get a tryout with the Lions.

He said he thinks he can play in the NFL. But the Lions, he kept pushing, but the Lions basically said, you can't come out here because we'd have to sign you to a contract. And if we didn't do that, we'd have liabilities, you know, if you got hurt. And so they would not let him try out. But yeah, he apparently had this.

belief that he was quite the athlete, too. Yes. The other thing about him... I'm sure he was. I'm sure he probably was. Just not a professional athlete. Right. That's all.

Yeah. The other thing I didn't know until Friday is that he had sung the national anthem during the 1968 World Series, Tommy. That was Cardinals Tigers, right? That was the Bob Gibson World Series? Yes. 68?

Am I right about that or not? I forget what it was. No, you're right about that. He's, he's, he had sung the national anthem previously at a sporting event, but did it with the normal national anthem tone. But he wanted to do it differently, but they wouldn't let them. Well, you know what happened in 68. Well, yeah, we had the riots.

No, no, no, no. That's when Jose Feliciano sang the national anthem. Oh. I mean, and sung it in his own words. way in its own interpretation and caused a shitstorm. I mean, like the NBC switchboard was swamped with complaints about it. And I actually interviewed Jose Feliciano when the Tigers were in the World Series in 2006 about that. He was in Las Vegas at the time.

I got him on the phone and talked to him. If you lived through that, that was a huge story. So I could understand if he was following Jose Feliciano. That's the only part I read about. I didn't read about the Jose Feliciano part. Oh, I'll send you my column from that because it's a remarkable story and was a huge story at 68 when a country was so divided about Vietnam at that point. And Jose Feliciano did his own interpretation of the national anthem. And he thinks it nearly destroyed his career.

He was blacklisted from his songs being played on radio stations after that. I mean, you know, the fall classic in 1968 followed the summer of absolute, you know, chaos with, you know, first, obviously, RFK's assassination. First MLK's assassination. Two months later, it's RFK's assassination. We're in Vietnam. It's the convention in Chicago, the Democratic, the whole thing, the summer of 60s. riots. The summer of 68, you know, half of our cities were burning to the ground in the summer of 68. Detroit was one of them. So I'm looking this up. Gay sang the national anthem game four of the 1968 World Series.

So do you think Feliciano must have sung it before? But the story was that Marvin Gay did want to sing it in a different tone, but they told him no. I don't know what song it was. Actually. What game it was? It was. It was before game five. It was before game five. Okay. Well, then it was the next game. Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting if they wouldn't let Marvin do it because if they said even to Jose, he didn't listen to him. Right. All right. Thank you for the reviews. Rate us and review us if you have the opportunity. So, Tommy, today is the first day NFL teams can use the franchise.

tag on players who are not under contract for 2023. And everybody believes that Duran Payne is one of those players that will be tagged. They've got between today and March 7th. So two weeks to franchise tag or transition tag him, but more likely than not, it would be a franchise tag. More likely than not, they'll tag him rather than extending him because of the ownership situation. It's in flux. And the Snyder's more likely than not don't want to come out.

out of pocket all of the guaranteed money that would be involved in a contract extension, which would have to go into escrow. They would likely get it back from whomever purchases the team, but they probably don't want to do that. And, you know, the idea here is maybe Washington will put the tag on Duran Payne and maybe even say to him, look, we're going to look at, you know, talking to you and your agent about a long-term deal once the ownership situation gets cleared up. Now, last night, Dron Payne via Instagram put out the following message, quote,

In that mode, I need every penny. And then there is an emoji of a bag full of money. He's chasing that bag, as they say, Tommy. He wants that big contract extension off what was a career year for him. And by the way, a very interesting market for defensive tackles. Like this may be the new wide receiver of, the next year or two where defensive tackles are sought out and paid a lot more than what they've made. There's a real disparity, by the way, an average annual between Aaron Donald, who makes

31.6 million, and then Leonard Williams and DeForest Buckner, who both make 21 million a year. That's a huge disparity. Duran Payne's going to certainly get more, or he would get more than John Allen got on the open market. John got four for 72. million bucks a year, 35.6 of it guaranteed. I mean, Duran Payne on the open market, one of the highest rated free agents by almost every free agent, you know, discussion and ranking, you know, he'd be looking at a deal of 50 million guaranteed somewhere in that neighborhood, maybe more, and 22, 23, 24, $25 million a year. So he doesn't want to get tagged for 19 point or 18. million a year, I think it is.

It's 18.93 million exactly. He doesn't want, he wants guaranteed money. He wants life-changing money. Not that 18.93 million dollars isn't life-changing money, but there's a chance that he could sign a deal for 50 to 60 million in guaranteed money. He doesn't want to get tagged. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't sign the tag. We've had some of that in recent years.

You know, Devante Adams didn't tag the franchise deal from the Packers. last year. We've had players, Leveon Bell probably being the most famous of, you know, and he made big mistakes at the end of his career with contracts. But Duran Payne could go that route of forcing their hand. But I personally think that Duran Payne proved enough. I know the concern over the contract year situation. But I don't know. My hunch is that Duran Payne is entering his prime and he's going to be a really good player. I don't want to lose Dron Payne. As a fan of the team, even though I'm not as passionate, he's been one of my favorite players since they drafted him. I think he is really, really good and has the chance to get

even better. And the combination of him and John Allen is really the strength of this football team. So I think expect franchise tag and maybe contract extension talks once ownership changes. What do you think? Look, I think you're probably right, and I disagree with you in the sense. I think that the franchise tag is the perfect way to pay Thrawn Payne. I really do believe you saw him step up this year in play because it was a contract year. I think he saw his... Why do you think that?

Because he talks about getting paid so much. I mean, it's the overlying message that you hear. come out of drawn pain on social media. Okay? Getting paid is a big deal to him. Not that it shouldn't be, but I think that I think he saw this year as his chance to get paid. He stepped up as a result, and he may be unhappy about being a franchise tag player, but he's not going to get paid if he doesn't play well under the franchise tag.

I think you franchise tag him twice. This is the ultimate year-to-year guy. This is the guy who you want to pay year-to-year. You won't have them after two years after that, but, you know, you live with that. I think you franchise tag him this year, and if he's worth it, you franchise tag him again next year. I think once you pay a guy like this, you know, with a long-term deal, you're not going to get the same level of play. I hear what you're saying. I think that, not that you did this, but I've used this example before.

the Albert Haynesworth situation was different. You know, he had that great year in the contract year, entered free agency, Washington signed him to the biggest deal in the history of the league for a defensive player. But Washington didn't know the player. You know, they didn't spend, you know, four years with the player. This team has. They've spent five years, actually, with the player, right?

Duran Payne came into the league in 2018. He's played five seasons with this team, and he's played three with. this coaching staff. And, you know, from the jump, I remember actually Jack Del Rio saying one of the players he was most excited to get a chance to coach was Duran Payne because he really flashed on film. Dron Payne's been flashing on film since the jump. I know what you're saying. I guess I would just defer to those out there that have been with him for four years to know whether or not he is a one-year aberration of greatness because he was in a contract year.

Because before the one great year, he still was a good player. But I think that we don't know him. I don't know him in terms of work ethic, in terms of whether or not they believe he's ascending as a player and that this was not an aberration, that it wasn't money-driven necessarily. so I don't know, probably naive, but I would just defer to the team on this one. Because you could, even though the franchise tag should be an incentive as a contract year again, you know, you could really end up pissing them off.

I think you're giving them too much credit that they would have the ability to decipher this information that you have presented. Them or anybody? Them. Okay. All right. Other... I'm doing way too much credit. Other...

I mean, you franchise tag them, and then, you know, I'm sure, you know, somebody will sit down and say, Duran, you may be pissed. But you're not going to get that big paycheck you're chasing, unless you play a well again this year. Yeah, meantime, the paycheck.

If you play like you're pissed off, you're not getting paid. In the meantime, if he does get tagged, he's going to make $18.93 million this year. But yeah, he could end up with $50 to $60 million guaranteed on a long-term deal, understood. All right. What did you want to say to me about artificial? Oh, I wanted to mention also real quickly, the real story when it comes to the franchise tag is not Duran Payne. The real story is Lamar Jackson and what Baltimore does with Lamar Jackson. because there are many people that think that he's playing under the franchise tag again in Baltimore next year.

Other people believe that they're going to get a long-term deal worked out. I think fewer and fewer believe that he's going to be traded. So we'll see what Baltimore does with Jackson. Also, keep an eye on what the Giants do with Daniel Jones. You know, I mean, they can't let him get to unrestricted free agency without a long-term deal, so they may have to tag. And he's looking for $40 million a year. Yeah.

Yeah, and the quarterback number for this year is $32.41 million for one season. All right, what did you want to talk about as far as artificial intelligence? I've been thinking about artificial intelligence for quite a while now. I remember, look, Elon Musk, in my opinion, may be a dirt bag, but he shoots missiles into space. So he has some level of intelligence. And he said a couple years ago that the thing that people should be worried about the most is artificial intelligence. And that always stuck with me. And now we're seeing it, we're seeing the beginning stages of it coming into play publicly.

We actually in the media, Sports Illustrated, they're using AI to write, like some of these articles, like the best ways for men over 40 to maintain muscle and stuff like that, where they would have used a person who have written a story like that. Really? Now, there's been a lot, yeah, and there have been other publications and websites that have used AI, and some of it's backfired on it because people found a lot of mistakes in some of the work, but this is the early stages. They're going to get that worked out.

Okay. The fact that they can write a story and have a couple mistakes, I've got to tell you something, except for me, most humans write stories and make a couple mistakes, too. Right. Okay. That's not just silly and unusual occurrence, present company excluded. Okay. But this is entering the creative field of endeavors. and that's if you're a creator, if you're an artist or you're a writer or something like this, this is pretty scary. Yeah, I mean, the fact that you use the example, which obviously it hit home for you, that, you know, artificial intelligence will replace artists like you, like you know, like us, actually.

And I say that, you know, partly with sarcasm, but actually, you know, what we do. do, what you do in writing a column, what we do on this podcast, what we have done on a radio show, what I continue to do on a radio show, which, you know, is considered what they call spoken word radio, long form, intimate, you know, radio, where you're supposed to be provocative and entertaining and interesting and thoughtful. And yes, you're supposed to be informative as well, but it's actually much more of a creative job than I think most people would think. But I guess, yes, that's surprising to me because I would think, and I don't know much about artificial intelligence. You know, I've been around people who work in that field and been very much on the periphery of those conversations, a lot of it sailing way over my head.

But I guess I've always felt like this stuff will ultimately really replace men. manufacturing jobs and, you know, and other things, too. I understand it's not just, you know, technology, physical technology either. I know it's much more than that, but the example you brought up, I didn't even think of it from that perspective. Yes, I mean, this is not a machine on an artificial intelligence, a machine on an assembly line. This is getting into the brain, okay? It requires a brain. I know some of you people may not think so who listen to the podcast,

but it does require a brain to create, and now artificial intelligence is literally replacing that brain with artificial intelligence. Now, you know, I talked about this with one of my sons, and he thinks it's great because he has this vision someday of nobody having to work, and then everybody getting a national income. Okay, so you can pretty much live however you want, and that's like the ultimate upside maybe of artificial intelligence. I see a frightening future.

You know, I mean, if I was younger, I'd be very scared about what this would do to... Unless you're working in that field, because it's always with technology, it's always the question of, right, you know, are you replacing jobs or are you creating jobs? Well, typically you end up doing both. And so this may be... But what if they create an artificial intelligence to create artificial intelligence? Well, then who's creating the artificial intelligence to create the artificial intelligence? Somebody is, but...

I know, but I think that number probably shrinks as improvements come along. It's a scary world we're looking at in terms of AI. I mean, you know, everyone, I mean, the ultimate ground zero for artificial intelligence is 2001, the space odyssey. Right. And how, I forget, how the computer that tries to take over the spaceship. I mean, that's the ground zero nightmare for AI. I wonder what some of these objects in the sky think about our artificial intelligence. Do we know what those things were?

Were they just weather balloons or university balloons up there doing things? I don't know, but you know what I thought of? Remember the guy about 30, 40 years ago, maybe 50 years ago, who tied a bunch of balloons to his lawn chair and took off and flew like as high as 10,000 feet or something like that? Are you serious? No, I'm serious. It was a story. I have to look it up. But, no, that was definitely a story. A guy did that. I mean, if he did it now, he'd be shot out of the sky. 1982, Larry Walters went 16,000 feet above the ground in a lawn chair with a bunch of balloons. Did he get down by just popping him one at a time?

I don't remember. What's it say? I don't remember. I mean, he didn't die. I know. LA truck driver Larry Walters launched his aircraft, a Sears lawn chair dubbed inspiration from his backyard. He attached it to more than 40 helium-filled weather balloons. He expected to rise about 100 feet in the air. He quickly found himself at 16,000 feet where he was spotted by passing airline pilots. How was he breathing? I mean, I would hope that he had some oxygen at 16,000 feet. I mean, he wasn't at 35,000.

To lower his altitude, Walters used a pellet gun to pop some of the balloons. It's like a cartoon, isn't it? But listen to this. He accidentally dropped the gun, realizing he was descending too quickly. Walters dumped water from plastic jugs strapped to the chair after drifting onto some power lines and a dramatic rescue by the LAPD, Walters gave the lawn chair to a passing neighborhood kid. The kid was Jerry Fleck, who three decades later donated the lawn chair to the National Air and Space Museum. So we can go down to the Air and Space Museum and see this chair.

Oh, my God. Look at the picture of this guy. Just Google lawn chair 16,000 feet. Wow And again Today that guy risk getting shot down Yeah 16,000 feet I mean

How much further would he have gone I mean at that point he would have died Obviously unless he had oxygen Yeah I mean you get up to 35,000 feet like plane fly I mean you're not breathing up there No That's a great story

That's an incredible story Now that that's not artificial intelligence. Somebody might say that's artificial stupidity, but that's a hell of a story. Yeah, great story. I had never heard that before. Larry Walters. All right, we've got other things to finish up with. I'm not sure exactly what, although I do have a new favorite cookie to tell you about. We'll get to that in more right after. The words from a few of our sponsors. Tommy, tell us about

Shelly's. Well, this is a message that I've delivered to all of you out there before, but I think this is an opportune time to do it. This is the time of your fact to do it. There's no football right now. You know, we're not into March

Madness yet with the college NCAA playoffs. So this is the time where keep families look for things to do at least some members of the family and drag other members of the family along with them and they usually wind up downtown D.C. to the various great museums

that we have downtown, you know, taking trips to fill that Sunday void. Some of you reluctantly maybe but understanding how wise it is to go along. Let me just point out a safety valve you. Shelly's back room at 1331 F Street Northwest. Shelly's back room is very convenient to the Metro, to D.C.'s Metro, and it's right a couple of blocks away from the Smithsonian's and all the other museums and sites in D.C.

So you find yourself getting on the off of Metro and your significant other says, well, let's start with the National Gallery of Art. And you say, you know what, honey? while you do that, I'm going to go up the road and have a cigar and a smoke. I'll just be right up the road at Shelley's back room. You text me when you're done, and I'll join you. It must work for you. Yeah. I'll be smoking a cigar hanging out with the guys having a few cocktails.

You go do your deal. Okay. So you need to plan your exit strategy around that because Shelley's back room is the place to seek refuge on days like that. Shelly's back, I mean, you know, great menu for food, great menu for cigars, a menu of excellence, as we like to say. Shelly's back room, 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. So Tommy, your favorite cookies are those Lorna Dunes, right? That's what you eat those short break cookies. Is that your, is that your only cookie that you eat?

Pretty much so. And again, I only eat it occasionally because I would have. every day if I could. So only like maybe three or four times a year I'll buy some normal dunes to have. Do you ever go to Trader Joe's? No. There's no

Trader Joe's in Frederick. And I've been to one once in Columbia. But, you know, look, my roots are in grocery stores like yours are, so I don't really like hanging out.

So they have, Trader Joe's, is not, I mean, I'm not going to say that it's my favorite place because it isn't. They've got a lot of odd product in Trader Joe's. My wife loves it. But I'll tell you what, they have these ginger snap cookies. They come in this plastic, you know, sort of bin. And I had a package of those and I put everything in the freezer. I put cookies. I put candy always in the freezer. I don't know why it just to me it tastes much better. These are the best cookies I've had in a long time. Now, I'm kind of a, I like ginger snap cookies. I like, I love ginger. I love a ginger snap cookie. And, um, and this is the best one I've ever had. There are literally chunks of ginger

in it. And when they're cold, they're, it's, I, I ate, I ate a whole box of these trader Joe ginger snaps over the weekend and then decided, well, I've got to go get another one. And that one's half done. Wow. This is a problem because you can eat them kind of like people eat like M&Ms or Tic Tacs. Like you just keep, you know, or goldfish.

It's like you can't just eat one or two. And these things are the best cookies I have ever had. Now I'm more of a chocolate guy, but I love ginger cookies. I love ginger snaps. The best ginger snap I have ever had.

Ginger snaps, Trader Joe's. If you're hip to it, you can let me know if I'm right or wrong, in your opinion. If you're not, it's great. Like, I think they're called triple ginger snaps. Outstanding stuff. You don't dunk them, do you? No, I'm not a cookie dunker. I can remember my father when I was a kid.

He would always take, we didn't get Oreos. My father loved those Hydrox cookies, you know, which I think, was, is that an abisco's version of Oreos, Hydrox, cookies? I don't know. I think it is. He preferred those. My father always, always dipped cookies into milk. I've never liked soggy cookies, ever.

Oh, I'm a big dunker. I'm big on that. That's the only way I eat them. That's the only way you do it with your Lorna. You got to, with your Lorna Dunes, you do it. Yes, I do. All right. I know you've got something that you want to finish up the show with, and we'll get to that in a moment. I did want to mention to all of you. I did see the LaShawn McCoy comments on Fox about Eric Bienemy. He pretty much trashed Eric Bienemy, which he's done in the past. He only played there for one year. And Andy Reed pretty much said, you know, LaShawn McCoy at that point was an older player a little bit washed up, and he can kind of understand the bitterness that he had. I mean, Andy Reid never throws a player under the bus, and he pretty much told you that LaShawn McCoy was kind of out there.

And no other players that have played for Eric Bienemy that I know of have ever come out and been publicly critical of Bienemy. Almost everything you've heard out of Kansas City has been positive over the years. Again, I'll go back to what I said in the opening segment of the show, and that is that, you know, you do have to wonder a little bit if, They thought he was, you know, all that and more, why not lock him up and give him the opportunity to go be a head coach somewhere else, but don't let him go be an offensive coordinator somewhere else and make him the coach in waiting for when Andy Reid retires. But anyway, I'm not going to play the little Sean McCoy stuff, to be honest with you. I found it to be very repetitive. You can find it out there wherever you want.

But he's really a lone voice on that. But anyway, that's enough on that. Tommy, you had something you wanted to finish the show up with. We didn't get a chance to talk about it, and that was my fault. But Tim McArthur died last week. Yes. And let me just say, in my opinion, he's the greatest sports analyst in the history of sports. Really?

Oh, he called Mets games in the late 70s and early 80s. He started as an analyst for Phillies games. I hired in New York. and I listened to them called Mets games for, like, decades. I learned more about baseball from Tim McCarver until I became a sports writer and started to listen to the baseball managers. But before that, almost everything that was worth knowing about baseball, I learned from Tim McIcarver.

He literally would tell you what was going on on the field before it happened. And he's best known for the 2001 World Series for predicting the game-winning hit. off of Mariano Rivera right before it happened. He was that good. He was a Renaissance guy. He just wasn't some jock dummy.

He was just brilliant. And people wound up making fun of him later on. But I loved Tim McCarver. He taught a generation about baseball. Did you feel that way about Jim Palmer? in terms of teaching you about baseball. To some extent, yes, to teach you about pitching. You know, pitchers don't know what it's like to be an everyday player.

Okay, so they're limited. This is why you don't have a lot of pitchers as managers. So, yeah, I've always felt that way in part about Jim McCarver, about Jim Palmer. But McCarver being an everyday catcher for a lot of his career. And a terrific ball player, by the way, too. as well. And a great high school football player out of Memphis. There's a high school football stadium in Memphis named for Tim McArthur because of how great he was as a high school athlete there and particularly a football player. But I just wanted to mention that he had a big impact on me

and he'll be missed. He's great. I think for me, listening to Jim Palmer, You know, all those years when we didn't have baseball here and the Orioles were the only thing you could watch. And I was never a big Orioles fan, but I will tell you that there were years in summers where I watched a lot of Orioles games, especially when they were good. And I went to a lot of Orioles games, even though I was never like a hardcore Orioles fan, but a lot of my friends were. You know, they were definitely into the Orioles. And I thought Jim Palmer was just incredible. Tommy, that's one of my favorite, you know, lunch with the legends that we ever. did was with Jim Palmer. He was incredible with just an unbelievable. Oh, that's right. It was just me.

It was just me. Yeah. And it was, I wish, I wish you had been there. But he just had, I mean, he had an incredible memory. Macarver, I never, I never had an issue with. Was Tony Quebec considered to be really good? Because he's like, he and Joe Garagiole are like the first two that I remember with you know, with Kurt Gowdy primarily, right? It was Gowdy doing the NBC, when NBC had the World Series all throughout the 70s, you know, probably into the 80s before ABC or CBS got it. I don't know when it turned.

Well, no, NBC probably had it because the Gibson home run is an NBC call by Vince Gully. But ABC did have it for a while, I believe. I know they had the Monday night baseball with Howard Cosell, you know, on there. And Al Michaels, I think, was a part of that broadcast, Keith Jackson. But was Tony Kuback, he's the first one I really remember. Was he considered to be a great analyst? Yes, he was. Yes, he was. But McArthur brought it to a whole new level. I mean, he really did. I mean, like nobody had ever heard before. You know, the Mets have a great booth right now.

They've got Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez in their booth. And I don't get to listen to games much, but I'll bet that's a great boost to listen to. Well, we had Ron Darling for a while. Well, we had Ron Darling for a year where he had no idea what he was doing. And then he became a great analyst for the Mets. Right. Who did he call games for the first year for the Nats on TV? When Madden wasn't on TV.

Was it Mel Proctor? It was Mel Proctor. him. Yeah, that's what I thought. And MASHN couldn't get on Comcast because there was a fight with Comcast. So nobody except some small little cable company in D.C. ever saw the games. With the first year?

Yes. Really? Ashen existed, but they had a big fight with Comcast. So they weren't on almost every TV in the metro area. You couldn't watch them on TV. For whatever reason, I thought I watched a lot of the games with Mel Proctor and Ron Darling calling those games. You know, I don't know, maybe you had, it was a small little cable company in D.C. I remember the cable company you're talking about.

I forget the name of it. We didn't have that. We were in Montgomery County. We had, you know, we had Comcast. Well, they weren't on. You know, sometimes they'd be on, there'd be about 10 games a year that be on local TV that I think they'd be on. but like channel 20 or something like that. But for most of the year, they were blacked out.

God was Mel Proctor a fabulous play-by-play guy. He was great. He was one of my favorites on radio. You know, he replaced Frank Herzog doing the Bullets games when Herzog called the title in 1978 and then left to be the... the play-by-play voice for the Redskins. So Proctor replaced Herzog doing bullets games on radio in 1979,

and they went to the finals that year and lost to the Sonics. Frank had the championship. Proctor had the year that they lost. But Frank became the play-by-play voice in 1979. Frank was a phenomenal play-by-play voice doing bullets games all of those years. He was great. and then Mel Proctor replaced him and Proctor was just everything he did

he was great at doing. All right, that's it. I'll be back tomorrow. See you, boss.